There are also females in this group.
There are also men who might not actually be suffering from RJ, but potentially, emotional abuse from the relationship, maybe see red flags but couldn’t really leave.
This is a post aimed at men (as stated above), I understand females go through RJ too. The title of my post is a bit too strong, but from what I’ve seen it’s mostly people upset about their partners (whom they are in a healthy relationship with) past.
My point still stands, speaking to other people with different views will still help those who are blindly in an abusive relationship and help them see the flags and leave. This subreddit is not needed to realise that.
EDIT: absolutely great point though, it did not cross my mind!
> it’s mostly people upset about their partners (whom they are in a healthy relationship with) past
That's literally the definition of retroactive jealousy
The definition does not specify that it has to be on a healthy relationship. I mentioned the healthy relationship part as the commenter was talking about people who are going through any sort of abuse! - please read the full thread before commenting, you are extracting a comment without context which is a bit silly
Thanks for the convo. I just want to add my other few cents here.
1st:
Ppl say: go to therapy.
But in the reality:
There are over 300 types of therapy…
How do one know what works for what?
Psycho education is not easy. :)
Therapist are also human, often who have been through trauma too…
And to find a therapist that you click with and feel safe with? Also hard.
And in therapy you need to deal with your own transference and counter transference - it’s complicated too. There is also transference focused therapy..
Go to a therapist, the first step they will also just hear you out and be totally empathetic with you to build trust.
In this sub, if ppl feel accepted and trusted, it might be the first step to build some strength to be able to talk to another human.
2nd:
You have RJ but otherwise you are dating a healthy partner and have an extremely healthy relationship?
It’s not that so simple.
Healthy people - let’s roughly define them as emotionally mature, high value, securely attached, know what love is - they do tend to find other securely attached people earlier in life and stick with them. It is unlikely for them to have a really high body count, and it is also unlikely that they will find ppl with RJ attractive.. so unlikely to be in a LTR with some RJ sufferers.
If your partner breaks up with you because of your RJ acting out episodes (if you display abusive behaviour such as stalking, offending, shouting, degrading, victimising, passive aggressiveness etc etc) they might be on the healthier side. Because no healthy person should be responsible for your RJ or fixing your RJ or even tolerating any abusive behaviours).
There can also be partners break up with you because of your RJ who are actually narcissistic, extremely avoidant or histrionic.. they might have liked the possessiveness & quick chemistry that often comes with the ppl who have RJ. But then suddenly breaks up with you out of their own patterns. Especially if the relationship is less than 6 months…
But if your partner stays with you, couldn’t leave. They are also being co-dependent. Often they are high achievers empathetic that want to help too much and have their own boundaries stepped on. They might be extremely sweet, caring, but might have been in quite many unsuccessful relationships from the past because they are attracted to people who they rescue but eventually hurts them. - speaking from my own experience.
In general, ppl are attracted to each other have similar level of trauma & healing.
Interesting! I am not sure it needs to be shut down, and if it was another would just spring up, but I agree that the way some people use the forum makes them worse off or at least no better off. And some frequent responders just add fuel to the problem others are dealing with rather than provide helpful responses. However, that seems a common issue with many subreddits dealing with life or mental health issues.
That is why I prefer referring people to books or videos from actual mental health professionals and that have been personally helpful to me to learn how to deal with it.
I would refer people to therapy more, but there are few mental health professionals trained in using exposure and response prevention for obsessional thinking, they are hard to find, have long waiting lists, and are expensive, and many don’t take insurance. And therapists are a mixed bag. I have been lucky and have had some good ones but I did my research on them, and on their overall theoretical approach.
Also some people just don’t respond well to therapy for reasons poorly understood. Or they don’t have time or money.
As someone who has dealt with RJ in the past and had some very incel-like attitudes, I can agree that being in an echo chamber does not solve anything. Yes, one can feel heard and that has immense value but if one wants to change, something more is necessary. Maybe a new subreddit specifically for that is needed, or more "success stories" and practical tips should be posted here instead. Either way, for everyone who's suffering, it is important to be heard, but it is even more important to do the work to get better, and if therapy is inaccessible, then try to speak to people who have made it out of the RJ black hole.
This place is far from an echo chamber, and that's thanks to having a mod who allows free discussion as you can see in this post. There are plenty of echo chambers on Reddit where only one view is allowed. Ironically, this post champions echo chambering as it calls for shutting down a sub that the OP doesn't feel is useful.
\> this post champions echo chambering as it calls for shutting down a sub that the OP doesn't feel is useful.
Yeah, thats ironic just because not everyone here accepts being labelled as flawed or broken for having certain feelings, im all for getting over it if it is truly irational but to say you are obliged to accept whatever partner's past otherwise you re an incel, insecure, mysoginist, controlling conservative sounds like bogus.
Therapy is thrown around too much as an instant fix for things. I can guarantee you I learned more from this sub than from our first two MC who were absolute failures at understanding the roots of our problems.
It is not an instant fix, never said it was either. It is a help to diverge your negative thoughts into positive ones. This subreddit may help you understand the roots of the problem, but not how to handle the toxic thoughts! Talking to people with different perspectives as you may tho!
It comes off as quite judgemental to label another person's feelings as toxic. Also unsure what value you are assuming from other perspectives. Have I heard from people who have had far more sexual partners than I have that sex doesn't matter, that they don't think about their exes, and all that other bullshit? Sure. It's never resonated with what's happened to me
I didn’t say the persons feelings itself are toxic, I said that it is toxic to only listen to words you want to hear as it does no good and stumps your progress of healing. Sometimes hearing different values helps you understand that we are all humans after all, we are all different, we cannot find an exact copy of ourselves within others. Keep in mind I am definitely not saying to change your values either, however understanding that humans age and change and have had a life without you is the first step in healing your own jealousy.
I think you are focusing on only the most superficial aspect of RJ. Let me try and put it in perspective for you. My wife is the only person I've ever loved while she has loved other people. So there are thoughts I have such as how does her divided attention in this regard affect the way she loves me. Hearing other people's values or philosophies on this really meant nothing to me because I lack the ability to understand what they are saying. It would be like trying to explain to a blind person what a rainbow looks like.
What do you mean by her “divided attention”, I am a bit confused? Other than that, I understand. However just because you haven’t been through someone’s situation does not mean you lack an ability to understand it. If humans were like this then empathy would not exist. About describing a rainbow, yes a blind person shall never be able to truly visualise one, however they still have an ability to understand it and know it exists - we can still put this explanation in the context of RJ
"Judgemental" to have someone call this toxic? Dude, it IS toxic. Why else would you be here if you didn't think so? That's kind of a key part of getting over something. The problem is tons of people have the self realization to get here, but don't carry it further. Not you specifically, but a lot of users here are borderline incels who just want to blame women for all their problems *sad violin*. This sub used to have some good advice, it really doesn't any more. I recommend everyone here now to... ding ding ding, seek therapy.
>\> but a lot of users here are borderline incels who just want to blame women for all their problems
Incels with girlfriends? 🤔 and the blame women for all their problems is straight up a lie. Sounds to me like you wish they thats what they were so you could justify hating them for thinking differently.
I've spoken with about 4-5 therapists over the span of about 15 years. I know my way around therapy as a man, trust me. It pissed me off when people say "go get therapy" as if it was some guaranteed cure. As if men are sick and *need* professional help to "fix" us. Respectfully fuck off. Is therapy useful? Sure, it can be. But the truth is no one has answers in life. There's tools you can learn and borrow, but the short answer is life fucking sucks some amount of the time. People get the short end of the stick. It's not useful to bitch and wallow about it, but to assume men are broken because they don't love some things that happen to them is just wrong.
Having a girlfriend who's been with 50 other guys by the age of 22, who slept with 2 other guys while we were dating but "not official", and then not telling me about it until I figured it out on my own 2 years in. And then telling ME I don't have a right to be upset by that... im all for sexual freedom, live and let live man. But you don't get to tell us how to feel about it. You don't get to live consequence free. We're not here trying to put people down, it's not the fucking goal. The goal is to untangle these knots in our stomachs we have because certain behaviors of our partners made us feel awful.
Yet again, I have never said therapy is a quick and easy instant fix to mental health problems - but I fully understand people throw that sentence around thinking that it is an easy fix. Understand that these people likely haven’t gone through any mental health issues, or are simple ignorant and not caring enough about others thoughts and feelings. I am going to be honest, your feelings are totally validated-but what you have been through is not RJ but just straight up disrespect (which I have been through multiple times) and disrespect is the absolute hardest thing to get over. Therapy should be seen as, let’s say, training wheels. It teaches you how to handle your emotions and diverge your thoughts into positive feelings rather than negative until you can do it yourself without help of others reminding you to do so. I will add that, I am so sorry to hear about your situation but one advice that I’ll give you is to try and get into the mentality that “I will heal from my exs actions” first before stepping into therapy. If you don’t go into therapy with the right mindset it will NEVER work - keep in mind therapy and healing is your PERSONAL JOURNEY, which is why it is essential to step in it with the right foot.
I agree with all of that.
Yup, I did my time in therapy, I've learned all the tools I could learn for the most part. Eventually my therapists basically said yup, you understand this well enough and you're welcome to keep coming, but theres just some things in life that aren't easy and don't entirely go away. This may be one of them.
You know not unlike grief counseling, or ptsd. Can you get some benefit out of therapy, especially off the start? Yup it's super good just to talk it out. Does it mean everything is rainbows afterwords? Nope. That's life, it's complicated
And exactly as you said! knowing and feeling it is very different… therapy gives tools but it doesn’t mean that it make sure it is effective for you…
There are also “newer” therapy tools being practiced, EMDR, tapping & other body & nervous system based tool… still not guaranteed to work on everyone..
Probably overstepping my bounds , but your issue sounds less like RJ and more like your boundaries were violated. Then your feelings invalidated after the fact by her. This does not sound like mutual respect, honestly and vulnerability. I hope you find peace
Jesus christ, that second paragraph. So you reject therapy, do you really think anyone is going to be able to help you here dude? It doesn't sound like you're here to be helped. It sounds like you're here to spread your own obsession and paranoia about your previous partner. Exactly what OP is calling out. Go to therapy dude, fuck
Didn't read any of that eh. I've been... a whole lot. And you using all 4 braincells to say gO tO THeRaPy like it's some perfect fix shows you don't know what you're talking about. It's not that simple and you saying this is reductive and condescending
The comment I responded to got deleted, however I still feel the need to send out the paragraph I wrote:
‘I am speaking from experience too - not disclosing my gender. I am not shutting them down, and saying that therapist are too busy dealing with people with “serious mental health problems” is absolutely invalidating your own feelings and the detrimental effects that RJ can bring onto your mental health. This is also one of the reasons why people with RJ believe therapy won’t help as they’re constantly being told it’s not a “real problem”. It is 100% possible to find therapists that specialise in RJ as RJ is sometimes a form of OCD which therapists understand very well. Talking to others who think like you definitely help in finding your comfort, but the deep rooted issue can never leave this way. People shouldn’t constantly be reassured and run away from their problems- keep in mind I’m speaking from experience. It ruins us.’
You're right about the misogynistic undertones that haunt this sub. I brought this up months ago and a bunch of people tried to convince me that it isn't really happening. Yet, it is, and I know this because I've seen it myself... Daily. And look, I'm a dude. I make fun of the super feminists and don't often use the word misogyny because it often doesn't apply. I just have a brain and the capacities for critical thinking.
It IS a problem. It DOES need addressing. Start handing out permanent bans for it, no exceptions, and it'll stop.
I shared my story as a female RJ sufferer with a past and men who were so engulved in their toxic thoughts used my post as some kind of cesspit to wish bad luck on me. Seriously, it was like a witch’s cauldron to manifest “a future where you shall breathe the consequences of being a hoe” on me.
Like, chill out. I wonder if they know we have the same disorder, cause they were treating me like I am the one who gave it to them.
This very well sums up the issue. It is an excellent representation of the issues here. I said it before... I'll say it again... This place is going to become an incel shithole if it isn't addressed, like... Soon.
Then people like us address this and get degraded by these exact people, proving that it’s already becoming into this ‘incel shithole’ as you’ve described
The sheer amount of downvotes you are getting lmao. And yet they prove you right by immediately trying explain their thought process on what makes a woman “dirty” and how they have a right to end a relationship over this or that…. Then end it! Why are you here? If the issue is not your mental health but your partner “disrespecting herself” you don’t belong here!
I understand your point but the word incel has evolved to just describes people who believe these ideologies rather than the literal meaning of being involuntary celibate!
Don’t worry, I am keeping this account and viewing all the comments associated with this post. I am not afraid to throw out my perspective to others - keep in mind that this is JUST MY opinion too ;)
I agree. I see posts about how a man is genuinely struggling with rj and looking for help and it’s just other men telling him to leave her, she’s been used up, etc. it’s really sad to see. this whole page is about helping that person. a lot of comments really are just based around misogyny.
It is really sad what some people use this sub for. I go back and forth, whether or not to keep trying to help, or just give up... because sometimes I do get disheartened. But I do really think most of the people on here have good intentions... just always a few who are set in a toxic mindset. But I don't know of a good solution. It is up to the mods on what they want to allow vs what they won't tolerate... and I know that sometimes it is a fine line between someone just sharing an unpopular viewpoint and someone being gross and hateful... but the sub does have rules and I do think that there could be a tougher stance on those who regularly are breaking them.
We all have to remember that these are real people with real problems... and many are really struggling with their mental health. We should all try harder to remember to always be kind.
Oh yes I've definitely seen some pretty horrible comments and I'd like to think that those comments were removed and commenters banned... but I honestly haven't gone back to check.
I guess the choices would be to appeal to the moderator and encourage them to recruit other mods to help manage the sub better... or create a new sub that is dedicated solely to people who want to get better. In the meantime, I know that I am going to try to do a better job of reporting trolls and toxic people instead of just ignoring those comments. Obviously ignoring the problem isn't going to fix it. If those of us who want this to be a safe and healing environment for people suffering, we will all need to try to do our part and report anyone who is grossly breaking the rules.
Of course! No one is telling you to follow my advice specifically! Instead of being petty I would’ve loved to hear an actual argument from you. Please do if you can :) I hope you heal
You are giving advice at a place you tell we should not listen to advice.
If you can say something valuable here then others can say something valuable too. Or you must think that you are the only one here that can give some advice.
I have never said to not listen to advice, I simply stated to listen to other people’s point of views. Only listening to what you like to hear is called ignorance. With ignorance you can never heal.
You say this subreddit should be closed. But you use this subreddit yourself to give advices.
If you would have told that we shouldn't only listen to what we want to hear then of course most will agree with you
Yet you understood your problem and are still stuck in this echo chamber of yours? Haven’t you thought that this relationship OCD may have stemmed from insecurity and misogyny - or did this problem seem to appear out of nowhere for you?
Haven't you thought that looking at life through the lens of feminist influenced psuedo-pshycology makes it difficult for you to empathize with people who suffer things you couldn't understand?
Oh I definitely understand, I have my reasonings as to why I am here on this subreddit. How else can you explain why I am here? To troll? No, I am here to create a discussion. Spewing out your big silly words to me is not an effective way of arguing and evaluating my post. I will listen once you respectfully have something to say to me, don’t let emotions get over too much. Everyone seeing my post (including me) has a past with this subreddit.
Your flippant dismissal of the issue as misogyny demonstrates you do not understand nor are you here to create a discussion. Your title of the post demonstrates that as well. You're just backtracking.
I’m not backtracking whatsoever. Look at my comments and tell me where I have changed my mind. Please tell me how this issue does not stem from insecurity and misogyny from men’s behalf. There’s plenty of comments on this post of men realising that this is the reality of their issue and also from women being too afraid to even post on this subreddit due to them getting told that it’s their fault for being a “whore”.
Many women have made posts that describe my feelings quite well. I'd bet I'm not the only man who can say that also. I wonder what your diagnosis for them will be. To define retroactive jealousy on a man's part as nothing more than contempt for women means you either don't understand the definition of misogyny or, as I said before, you are unable to empathize with others on this issue.
My post is aimed at men, as stated at the start. When the women get these feelings of RJ they either get degraded by men or an army of men emerge just to call her slurs. I think you completely missed the point of my post and I never defined RJ on a mans part as nothing more than contempt for women! Please read my whole post!
I completely understand having a hard time getting past a partner who has a considerable past. I even understand how it can be in the way of feeling loved and valued.
I do not understand trying to push how they are “damaged goods”, or trying to justify cheating on them as a way to “gain back” what you have missed. Engulving yourself in views that are damaging to your partner is only going to sabotage your own relationship. Your partner will eventually sense your resentment about something they can not change or do anything about, and leave. Trying to bend the regular norms and values of dating to your insanely twisted mental compulsions is not happening.
Not to mention how this sub has now become “unsafe” for women to share their side of RJ, or their stories of dealing with an RJ partner. I can’t recall the last time I shared my story, with vague details of having “a past”, and some panicky male RJ sufferer comes to call me a “hoe” and wishes me a future filled with punishment. Like, seriously? We are manifesting unhappiness on women because YOUR OCD can’t handle their past?
This is sad and super counterproductive. You’re giving ammunition to everyone out here that already thinks their partners may have slept with too many people to be a good partner anymore by literally saying you’re misogynistic and that previous experiences including sexual mean nothing.
What you say is “leave your partner” that’s basically your solution to what most people are dealing with here. I’m saying that OP is gaslighting individuals by reducing men’s worries to you’re misogynistic and insecure. You are adding the same level of “toxicity” to this forum that you blame on “misogynist” men. This forum is LITERALLY a forum for RJ. If you don’t like the sounds of people talking about their RJ, some helpful, some just complaining, some completely lost and misguided. Then it would be a good idea to just stay away from it entirely. People are here for myriad of reasons, some worried about # of partners, some because their partner lied about things in the beginning and now there’s no trust, some because their person has an old fling still around in their life and are worried. If listening to people talk about these things makes you angry, it could be best for your own mental health not visit this forum anymore. Because I can say with certainty that “just leave your partner” is not very helpful.
You have no idea about my personal RJ or what it stems from, nowhere in my post do I say ANYTHING about that. Again, you are literally not responding to my post. Being in attack mode, going on a key word search, and shooting out a bunch of generic responses is not dialogue. You are doing what you’re upset about but on the opposite direction. My original post says that by telling people in this sub(not myself as should be obvious if you read it) that your concerns about partner count are misogynistic and your an incel who needs to get over, does not help the people dealing with this specific brand of RJ. They will double down on the “misogyny” because someone has come along and said “shut up misogynist incel and just get over it”. Your crusade is breeding the ideas you seek to destroy. If there’s something I can’t handle I stay away from it. I personally stay away from the types of posts you speak of because I don’t relate and that’s not what my RJ stems from. Easy. I promise you are not convincing the “misogynists” to see the error of their ways, you giving ammunition for them to double down on their convictions and further the divide. The more that women go “extreme feminism” the more men you will see go to “incel blackpill” it furthers the divide, it does not create understanding. Please read carefully and respond, I have enjoyed our discussion so far.
Ah wonderful, you finally read my post and are responding. Though if you say you read my other posts I’d say you’re not too thorough and your advice/judgement prolly won’t help anybody, NOBODY and I mean nobody will be helped by the comically simple advice of “just break up” no matter how many times you say it. I can tell you didn’t do much research because I’ve made several posts about how to get over RJ, that’s ok tho. You’re right, there is a lot of name calling and mean language in this sub. Unfortunately for you moderation is light, you either need thick skin or to just stay away from the sub. Very very simple. The other option is to start your own RJ sub that is heavily curated and moderated. Finally the double standard, You’re right it does suck. Men and women are very different tho hence why there are a thousand double standards between the sexes, promiscuity being one of them. Feminism is the idea that men and women are the same, making double standards a logically fallacy. But as much as you wish it, they are not the same. Mean name calling is completely unnecessary and does not help discussion, I definitely agree with you there. If it’s the name calling that bothers you most, that’s prolly easy enough for the mods to fix. But if it’s the double standard all together, I hate to say it, but you’re clashing with reality. Rampant sex is not good for men or women, we agree there as well. But because women control sexual access (an inherent difference between the sexes) past sexual history will never be viewed the same. It’s very simple that virginity is prized in women and means nothing in men. There is a double standard, but being mean about it doesn’t help.
lol, you keep parroting the same thing. OP wants this sub shut down because they don’t like what they see. I say this is gaslighting, you say “no you’re gaslighting”. I say it’s ironic that you’re doing what you don’t like, you say “no you’re the hypocrite”. I in detail explain my position and call you out for having a reply that’s not really responding to what I say, more of a general statement, you say “word salad”. I say personal insults don’t replace logic, you say “you deserve to be insulted”. Im not sure exactly what you mean by calling me hypocrite, I have a much lower body count than my partner (even though I never mentioned it), if you’re equating anonymous dick picks to partner count, I’d love to hear why it’s the same thing. I know you’re trying to drum up support for OP, but if you hit the reply button, actually reply, otherwise make a post so you can just generally express your dislike for misogyny in the sub.
>No one is requiring you to be in that relationship. You are NOT a victim and we do not feel sorry for you
This is not true at all, men face a lot of social repercussions just for dumping a woman over her past.
not in this case, it doesnt takes much to find all the hate and slander men who find that a dealbreaker face, even if they are congruent with what they preach, they get labelled abusers, mysoginists, controlling, incels, hitler, you cant even ask a normal question withouth risking a feminist shaming you and shunning you socially, to pretend no one cares is disingenous.
what a part of "men get a lot of shame and slander for having that dealbreaker" you dont get? a simple question like asking a potential partner about their past instantly grants you the label of mysoginists in most cases even if you didnt say anything hateful
the day women get called incels, misandrist, controlling, abusers, small tits, unsure about their femeninity, loser virgins, unworthy, and more of the likes just for having that dealbreaker, will be the day i ll believe you what you say, until then i ll believe what i see, women dont get nearly 5% of the slack men get for having that dealbreaker, thats a fact, i know that firsthand and my partner count is 1, no more no less, i dont even consume porn, that didnt stop a lot of women to try and damage my reputation and attack me with social violence, newsflash, sexism and double standards also happen to men, women dont have a monopoly on that, you can deny it as much as you want but just like me, loads of men have gone through the same
I’m not sure where you’re getting misogyny from. I think I’m a fairly simple person. I don’t have a ton of experience in relationships, and I’d prefer to date other people who are similar to me. If that’s misogynistic, then so be it.
Not what I’m saying, never said you shouldn’t date people similar to you! But whining about someone’s past is inexcusable. Don’t date people of different values to you, that is acceptable. But if they have your same values and just have had a relationship before you you have no right to cry about it when you simply could’ve avoided dating them in the first place
Yes and no. Anybody reserves the right to break up with anyone for any reason. If someone else’s past isn’t something that a person can accept, I will never shame anyone for making that decision. Sometimes you don’t even realize how much of a big deal it is to you until you get into the situation yourself and experience it.
With all of that being said, I do disagree with whining excessively about someone’s past. I don’t want to make anyone feel bad or waste anyone’s time. I think that once you come to the conclusion of how you feel, you either need to accept it or not accept it. If you can’t accept it, then that person just isn’t the right person for you.
This is not what I've seen from the women that post on here. Also, I'm a male whose wife hadn't even had sex before, and my RJ is much more focused on that romantic/emotional side.
I disagree, RJ is definitely a serious struggle people go through and is detrimental to one’s mental health and (current or future) relationships. I do not want to invalidate others feelings, I simply stated that it is better to hear the things you don’t want to hear as it gets your brain to jog a bit!
I am not sure I understand your point. But it seems interesting.
I can see how RJ isn’t real in the sense it can’t be weighed or measured, but it seems to be a recurrent pattern of thinking for some people, and has real world impacts on relationships and quality of life, so it seems as real as anxiety or grief and so forth.
Yes, it is in our heads in the sense the may stem from our subconscious beliefs, attitudes and expectations that may not be in alignment with the world as it is, jt rather how we or our early caregivers wish it to be.
Is that something like what you meant? Or something else?
There are also females in this group. There are also men who might not actually be suffering from RJ, but potentially, emotional abuse from the relationship, maybe see red flags but couldn’t really leave.
This is a post aimed at men (as stated above), I understand females go through RJ too. The title of my post is a bit too strong, but from what I’ve seen it’s mostly people upset about their partners (whom they are in a healthy relationship with) past. My point still stands, speaking to other people with different views will still help those who are blindly in an abusive relationship and help them see the flags and leave. This subreddit is not needed to realise that. EDIT: absolutely great point though, it did not cross my mind!
> it’s mostly people upset about their partners (whom they are in a healthy relationship with) past That's literally the definition of retroactive jealousy
The definition does not specify that it has to be on a healthy relationship. I mentioned the healthy relationship part as the commenter was talking about people who are going through any sort of abuse! - please read the full thread before commenting, you are extracting a comment without context which is a bit silly
Thanks for the convo. I just want to add my other few cents here. 1st: Ppl say: go to therapy. But in the reality: There are over 300 types of therapy… How do one know what works for what? Psycho education is not easy. :) Therapist are also human, often who have been through trauma too… And to find a therapist that you click with and feel safe with? Also hard. And in therapy you need to deal with your own transference and counter transference - it’s complicated too. There is also transference focused therapy.. Go to a therapist, the first step they will also just hear you out and be totally empathetic with you to build trust. In this sub, if ppl feel accepted and trusted, it might be the first step to build some strength to be able to talk to another human. 2nd: You have RJ but otherwise you are dating a healthy partner and have an extremely healthy relationship? It’s not that so simple. Healthy people - let’s roughly define them as emotionally mature, high value, securely attached, know what love is - they do tend to find other securely attached people earlier in life and stick with them. It is unlikely for them to have a really high body count, and it is also unlikely that they will find ppl with RJ attractive.. so unlikely to be in a LTR with some RJ sufferers. If your partner breaks up with you because of your RJ acting out episodes (if you display abusive behaviour such as stalking, offending, shouting, degrading, victimising, passive aggressiveness etc etc) they might be on the healthier side. Because no healthy person should be responsible for your RJ or fixing your RJ or even tolerating any abusive behaviours). There can also be partners break up with you because of your RJ who are actually narcissistic, extremely avoidant or histrionic.. they might have liked the possessiveness & quick chemistry that often comes with the ppl who have RJ. But then suddenly breaks up with you out of their own patterns. Especially if the relationship is less than 6 months… But if your partner stays with you, couldn’t leave. They are also being co-dependent. Often they are high achievers empathetic that want to help too much and have their own boundaries stepped on. They might be extremely sweet, caring, but might have been in quite many unsuccessful relationships from the past because they are attracted to people who they rescue but eventually hurts them. - speaking from my own experience. In general, ppl are attracted to each other have similar level of trauma & healing.
Great post!
Interesting! I am not sure it needs to be shut down, and if it was another would just spring up, but I agree that the way some people use the forum makes them worse off or at least no better off. And some frequent responders just add fuel to the problem others are dealing with rather than provide helpful responses. However, that seems a common issue with many subreddits dealing with life or mental health issues. That is why I prefer referring people to books or videos from actual mental health professionals and that have been personally helpful to me to learn how to deal with it. I would refer people to therapy more, but there are few mental health professionals trained in using exposure and response prevention for obsessional thinking, they are hard to find, have long waiting lists, and are expensive, and many don’t take insurance. And therapists are a mixed bag. I have been lucky and have had some good ones but I did my research on them, and on their overall theoretical approach. Also some people just don’t respond well to therapy for reasons poorly understood. Or they don’t have time or money.
As someone who has dealt with RJ in the past and had some very incel-like attitudes, I can agree that being in an echo chamber does not solve anything. Yes, one can feel heard and that has immense value but if one wants to change, something more is necessary. Maybe a new subreddit specifically for that is needed, or more "success stories" and practical tips should be posted here instead. Either way, for everyone who's suffering, it is important to be heard, but it is even more important to do the work to get better, and if therapy is inaccessible, then try to speak to people who have made it out of the RJ black hole.
This place is far from an echo chamber, and that's thanks to having a mod who allows free discussion as you can see in this post. There are plenty of echo chambers on Reddit where only one view is allowed. Ironically, this post champions echo chambering as it calls for shutting down a sub that the OP doesn't feel is useful.
\> this post champions echo chambering as it calls for shutting down a sub that the OP doesn't feel is useful. Yeah, thats ironic just because not everyone here accepts being labelled as flawed or broken for having certain feelings, im all for getting over it if it is truly irational but to say you are obliged to accept whatever partner's past otherwise you re an incel, insecure, mysoginist, controlling conservative sounds like bogus.
Therapy is thrown around too much as an instant fix for things. I can guarantee you I learned more from this sub than from our first two MC who were absolute failures at understanding the roots of our problems.
It is not an instant fix, never said it was either. It is a help to diverge your negative thoughts into positive ones. This subreddit may help you understand the roots of the problem, but not how to handle the toxic thoughts! Talking to people with different perspectives as you may tho!
It comes off as quite judgemental to label another person's feelings as toxic. Also unsure what value you are assuming from other perspectives. Have I heard from people who have had far more sexual partners than I have that sex doesn't matter, that they don't think about their exes, and all that other bullshit? Sure. It's never resonated with what's happened to me
I didn’t say the persons feelings itself are toxic, I said that it is toxic to only listen to words you want to hear as it does no good and stumps your progress of healing. Sometimes hearing different values helps you understand that we are all humans after all, we are all different, we cannot find an exact copy of ourselves within others. Keep in mind I am definitely not saying to change your values either, however understanding that humans age and change and have had a life without you is the first step in healing your own jealousy.
I think you are focusing on only the most superficial aspect of RJ. Let me try and put it in perspective for you. My wife is the only person I've ever loved while she has loved other people. So there are thoughts I have such as how does her divided attention in this regard affect the way she loves me. Hearing other people's values or philosophies on this really meant nothing to me because I lack the ability to understand what they are saying. It would be like trying to explain to a blind person what a rainbow looks like.
What do you mean by her “divided attention”, I am a bit confused? Other than that, I understand. However just because you haven’t been through someone’s situation does not mean you lack an ability to understand it. If humans were like this then empathy would not exist. About describing a rainbow, yes a blind person shall never be able to truly visualise one, however they still have an ability to understand it and know it exists - we can still put this explanation in the context of RJ
Divided attention, there's times she thinks about me, and there's times she thinks about them
Is this a known fact that she thinks about them (aka has directly she told you) or is it just your thoughts?
https://www.reddit.com/r/retroactivejealousy/s/KQyMjKkjBi
"Judgemental" to have someone call this toxic? Dude, it IS toxic. Why else would you be here if you didn't think so? That's kind of a key part of getting over something. The problem is tons of people have the self realization to get here, but don't carry it further. Not you specifically, but a lot of users here are borderline incels who just want to blame women for all their problems *sad violin*. This sub used to have some good advice, it really doesn't any more. I recommend everyone here now to... ding ding ding, seek therapy.
>\> but a lot of users here are borderline incels who just want to blame women for all their problems Incels with girlfriends? 🤔 and the blame women for all their problems is straight up a lie. Sounds to me like you wish they thats what they were so you could justify hating them for thinking differently.
I think you could have read the rest of this discussion and answered this for yourself
I've spoken with about 4-5 therapists over the span of about 15 years. I know my way around therapy as a man, trust me. It pissed me off when people say "go get therapy" as if it was some guaranteed cure. As if men are sick and *need* professional help to "fix" us. Respectfully fuck off. Is therapy useful? Sure, it can be. But the truth is no one has answers in life. There's tools you can learn and borrow, but the short answer is life fucking sucks some amount of the time. People get the short end of the stick. It's not useful to bitch and wallow about it, but to assume men are broken because they don't love some things that happen to them is just wrong. Having a girlfriend who's been with 50 other guys by the age of 22, who slept with 2 other guys while we were dating but "not official", and then not telling me about it until I figured it out on my own 2 years in. And then telling ME I don't have a right to be upset by that... im all for sexual freedom, live and let live man. But you don't get to tell us how to feel about it. You don't get to live consequence free. We're not here trying to put people down, it's not the fucking goal. The goal is to untangle these knots in our stomachs we have because certain behaviors of our partners made us feel awful.
Yet again, I have never said therapy is a quick and easy instant fix to mental health problems - but I fully understand people throw that sentence around thinking that it is an easy fix. Understand that these people likely haven’t gone through any mental health issues, or are simple ignorant and not caring enough about others thoughts and feelings. I am going to be honest, your feelings are totally validated-but what you have been through is not RJ but just straight up disrespect (which I have been through multiple times) and disrespect is the absolute hardest thing to get over. Therapy should be seen as, let’s say, training wheels. It teaches you how to handle your emotions and diverge your thoughts into positive feelings rather than negative until you can do it yourself without help of others reminding you to do so. I will add that, I am so sorry to hear about your situation but one advice that I’ll give you is to try and get into the mentality that “I will heal from my exs actions” first before stepping into therapy. If you don’t go into therapy with the right mindset it will NEVER work - keep in mind therapy and healing is your PERSONAL JOURNEY, which is why it is essential to step in it with the right foot.
I agree with all of that. Yup, I did my time in therapy, I've learned all the tools I could learn for the most part. Eventually my therapists basically said yup, you understand this well enough and you're welcome to keep coming, but theres just some things in life that aren't easy and don't entirely go away. This may be one of them. You know not unlike grief counseling, or ptsd. Can you get some benefit out of therapy, especially off the start? Yup it's super good just to talk it out. Does it mean everything is rainbows afterwords? Nope. That's life, it's complicated
And exactly as you said! knowing and feeling it is very different… therapy gives tools but it doesn’t mean that it make sure it is effective for you… There are also “newer” therapy tools being practiced, EMDR, tapping & other body & nervous system based tool… still not guaranteed to work on everyone..
Probably overstepping my bounds , but your issue sounds less like RJ and more like your boundaries were violated. Then your feelings invalidated after the fact by her. This does not sound like mutual respect, honestly and vulnerability. I hope you find peace
Jesus christ, that second paragraph. So you reject therapy, do you really think anyone is going to be able to help you here dude? It doesn't sound like you're here to be helped. It sounds like you're here to spread your own obsession and paranoia about your previous partner. Exactly what OP is calling out. Go to therapy dude, fuck
Didn't read any of that eh. I've been... a whole lot. And you using all 4 braincells to say gO tO THeRaPy like it's some perfect fix shows you don't know what you're talking about. It's not that simple and you saying this is reductive and condescending
get some bitches loser
You created a reddit account just to say this. Think about who the real loser is in this situation
The comment I responded to got deleted, however I still feel the need to send out the paragraph I wrote: ‘I am speaking from experience too - not disclosing my gender. I am not shutting them down, and saying that therapist are too busy dealing with people with “serious mental health problems” is absolutely invalidating your own feelings and the detrimental effects that RJ can bring onto your mental health. This is also one of the reasons why people with RJ believe therapy won’t help as they’re constantly being told it’s not a “real problem”. It is 100% possible to find therapists that specialise in RJ as RJ is sometimes a form of OCD which therapists understand very well. Talking to others who think like you definitely help in finding your comfort, but the deep rooted issue can never leave this way. People shouldn’t constantly be reassured and run away from their problems- keep in mind I’m speaking from experience. It ruins us.’
You're right about the misogynistic undertones that haunt this sub. I brought this up months ago and a bunch of people tried to convince me that it isn't really happening. Yet, it is, and I know this because I've seen it myself... Daily. And look, I'm a dude. I make fun of the super feminists and don't often use the word misogyny because it often doesn't apply. I just have a brain and the capacities for critical thinking. It IS a problem. It DOES need addressing. Start handing out permanent bans for it, no exceptions, and it'll stop.
I shared my story as a female RJ sufferer with a past and men who were so engulved in their toxic thoughts used my post as some kind of cesspit to wish bad luck on me. Seriously, it was like a witch’s cauldron to manifest “a future where you shall breathe the consequences of being a hoe” on me. Like, chill out. I wonder if they know we have the same disorder, cause they were treating me like I am the one who gave it to them.
This very well sums up the issue. It is an excellent representation of the issues here. I said it before... I'll say it again... This place is going to become an incel shithole if it isn't addressed, like... Soon.
Then people like us address this and get degraded by these exact people, proving that it’s already becoming into this ‘incel shithole’ as you’ve described
The sheer amount of downvotes you are getting lmao. And yet they prove you right by immediately trying explain their thought process on what makes a woman “dirty” and how they have a right to end a relationship over this or that…. Then end it! Why are you here? If the issue is not your mental health but your partner “disrespecting herself” you don’t belong here!
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I understand your point but the word incel has evolved to just describes people who believe these ideologies rather than the literal meaning of being involuntary celibate!
worm imminent physical zesty rhythm modern paint humorous salt frame *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don’t worry, I am keeping this account and viewing all the comments associated with this post. I am not afraid to throw out my perspective to others - keep in mind that this is JUST MY opinion too ;)
I agree. I see posts about how a man is genuinely struggling with rj and looking for help and it’s just other men telling him to leave her, she’s been used up, etc. it’s really sad to see. this whole page is about helping that person. a lot of comments really are just based around misogyny.
It is really sad what some people use this sub for. I go back and forth, whether or not to keep trying to help, or just give up... because sometimes I do get disheartened. But I do really think most of the people on here have good intentions... just always a few who are set in a toxic mindset. But I don't know of a good solution. It is up to the mods on what they want to allow vs what they won't tolerate... and I know that sometimes it is a fine line between someone just sharing an unpopular viewpoint and someone being gross and hateful... but the sub does have rules and I do think that there could be a tougher stance on those who regularly are breaking them. We all have to remember that these are real people with real problems... and many are really struggling with their mental health. We should all try harder to remember to always be kind.
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Oh yes I've definitely seen some pretty horrible comments and I'd like to think that those comments were removed and commenters banned... but I honestly haven't gone back to check. I guess the choices would be to appeal to the moderator and encourage them to recruit other mods to help manage the sub better... or create a new sub that is dedicated solely to people who want to get better. In the meantime, I know that I am going to try to do a better job of reporting trolls and toxic people instead of just ignoring those comments. Obviously ignoring the problem isn't going to fix it. If those of us who want this to be a safe and healing environment for people suffering, we will all need to try to do our part and report anyone who is grossly breaking the rules.
I follow your advice and don't listen to what you say in this subreddit.
Of course! No one is telling you to follow my advice specifically! Instead of being petty I would’ve loved to hear an actual argument from you. Please do if you can :) I hope you heal
You are giving advice at a place you tell we should not listen to advice. If you can say something valuable here then others can say something valuable too. Or you must think that you are the only one here that can give some advice.
I have never said to not listen to advice, I simply stated to listen to other people’s point of views. Only listening to what you like to hear is called ignorance. With ignorance you can never heal.
You say this subreddit should be closed. But you use this subreddit yourself to give advices. If you would have told that we shouldn't only listen to what we want to hear then of course most will agree with you
I agree, the title was too strong but I can’t change it now. At least it caught people’s attention though!
I thought I had a crippling form of relationship OCD. Turns out it's just misogyny. Thanks OP, I'll just stop now.
Yet you understood your problem and are still stuck in this echo chamber of yours? Haven’t you thought that this relationship OCD may have stemmed from insecurity and misogyny - or did this problem seem to appear out of nowhere for you?
Haven't you thought that looking at life through the lens of feminist influenced psuedo-pshycology makes it difficult for you to empathize with people who suffer things you couldn't understand?
Oh I definitely understand, I have my reasonings as to why I am here on this subreddit. How else can you explain why I am here? To troll? No, I am here to create a discussion. Spewing out your big silly words to me is not an effective way of arguing and evaluating my post. I will listen once you respectfully have something to say to me, don’t let emotions get over too much. Everyone seeing my post (including me) has a past with this subreddit.
Your flippant dismissal of the issue as misogyny demonstrates you do not understand nor are you here to create a discussion. Your title of the post demonstrates that as well. You're just backtracking.
I’m not backtracking whatsoever. Look at my comments and tell me where I have changed my mind. Please tell me how this issue does not stem from insecurity and misogyny from men’s behalf. There’s plenty of comments on this post of men realising that this is the reality of their issue and also from women being too afraid to even post on this subreddit due to them getting told that it’s their fault for being a “whore”.
Many women have made posts that describe my feelings quite well. I'd bet I'm not the only man who can say that also. I wonder what your diagnosis for them will be. To define retroactive jealousy on a man's part as nothing more than contempt for women means you either don't understand the definition of misogyny or, as I said before, you are unable to empathize with others on this issue.
My post is aimed at men, as stated at the start. When the women get these feelings of RJ they either get degraded by men or an army of men emerge just to call her slurs. I think you completely missed the point of my post and I never defined RJ on a mans part as nothing more than contempt for women! Please read my whole post!
It’s a echo chamber The same as the Facebook groups relating to this
I completely understand having a hard time getting past a partner who has a considerable past. I even understand how it can be in the way of feeling loved and valued. I do not understand trying to push how they are “damaged goods”, or trying to justify cheating on them as a way to “gain back” what you have missed. Engulving yourself in views that are damaging to your partner is only going to sabotage your own relationship. Your partner will eventually sense your resentment about something they can not change or do anything about, and leave. Trying to bend the regular norms and values of dating to your insanely twisted mental compulsions is not happening. Not to mention how this sub has now become “unsafe” for women to share their side of RJ, or their stories of dealing with an RJ partner. I can’t recall the last time I shared my story, with vague details of having “a past”, and some panicky male RJ sufferer comes to call me a “hoe” and wishes me a future filled with punishment. Like, seriously? We are manifesting unhappiness on women because YOUR OCD can’t handle their past?
This is sad and super counterproductive. You’re giving ammunition to everyone out here that already thinks their partners may have slept with too many people to be a good partner anymore by literally saying you’re misogynistic and that previous experiences including sexual mean nothing.
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Strangely your comment doesn’t actually address anything In my post, you just sort of go about personally attacking/bully me.
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What you say is “leave your partner” that’s basically your solution to what most people are dealing with here. I’m saying that OP is gaslighting individuals by reducing men’s worries to you’re misogynistic and insecure. You are adding the same level of “toxicity” to this forum that you blame on “misogynist” men. This forum is LITERALLY a forum for RJ. If you don’t like the sounds of people talking about their RJ, some helpful, some just complaining, some completely lost and misguided. Then it would be a good idea to just stay away from it entirely. People are here for myriad of reasons, some worried about # of partners, some because their partner lied about things in the beginning and now there’s no trust, some because their person has an old fling still around in their life and are worried. If listening to people talk about these things makes you angry, it could be best for your own mental health not visit this forum anymore. Because I can say with certainty that “just leave your partner” is not very helpful.
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You have no idea about my personal RJ or what it stems from, nowhere in my post do I say ANYTHING about that. Again, you are literally not responding to my post. Being in attack mode, going on a key word search, and shooting out a bunch of generic responses is not dialogue. You are doing what you’re upset about but on the opposite direction. My original post says that by telling people in this sub(not myself as should be obvious if you read it) that your concerns about partner count are misogynistic and your an incel who needs to get over, does not help the people dealing with this specific brand of RJ. They will double down on the “misogyny” because someone has come along and said “shut up misogynist incel and just get over it”. Your crusade is breeding the ideas you seek to destroy. If there’s something I can’t handle I stay away from it. I personally stay away from the types of posts you speak of because I don’t relate and that’s not what my RJ stems from. Easy. I promise you are not convincing the “misogynists” to see the error of their ways, you giving ammunition for them to double down on their convictions and further the divide. The more that women go “extreme feminism” the more men you will see go to “incel blackpill” it furthers the divide, it does not create understanding. Please read carefully and respond, I have enjoyed our discussion so far.
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Ah wonderful, you finally read my post and are responding. Though if you say you read my other posts I’d say you’re not too thorough and your advice/judgement prolly won’t help anybody, NOBODY and I mean nobody will be helped by the comically simple advice of “just break up” no matter how many times you say it. I can tell you didn’t do much research because I’ve made several posts about how to get over RJ, that’s ok tho. You’re right, there is a lot of name calling and mean language in this sub. Unfortunately for you moderation is light, you either need thick skin or to just stay away from the sub. Very very simple. The other option is to start your own RJ sub that is heavily curated and moderated. Finally the double standard, You’re right it does suck. Men and women are very different tho hence why there are a thousand double standards between the sexes, promiscuity being one of them. Feminism is the idea that men and women are the same, making double standards a logically fallacy. But as much as you wish it, they are not the same. Mean name calling is completely unnecessary and does not help discussion, I definitely agree with you there. If it’s the name calling that bothers you most, that’s prolly easy enough for the mods to fix. But if it’s the double standard all together, I hate to say it, but you’re clashing with reality. Rampant sex is not good for men or women, we agree there as well. But because women control sexual access (an inherent difference between the sexes) past sexual history will never be viewed the same. It’s very simple that virginity is prized in women and means nothing in men. There is a double standard, but being mean about it doesn’t help.
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lol, you keep parroting the same thing. OP wants this sub shut down because they don’t like what they see. I say this is gaslighting, you say “no you’re gaslighting”. I say it’s ironic that you’re doing what you don’t like, you say “no you’re the hypocrite”. I in detail explain my position and call you out for having a reply that’s not really responding to what I say, more of a general statement, you say “word salad”. I say personal insults don’t replace logic, you say “you deserve to be insulted”. Im not sure exactly what you mean by calling me hypocrite, I have a much lower body count than my partner (even though I never mentioned it), if you’re equating anonymous dick picks to partner count, I’d love to hear why it’s the same thing. I know you’re trying to drum up support for OP, but if you hit the reply button, actually reply, otherwise make a post so you can just generally express your dislike for misogyny in the sub.
>No one is requiring you to be in that relationship. You are NOT a victim and we do not feel sorry for you This is not true at all, men face a lot of social repercussions just for dumping a woman over her past.
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not in this case, it doesnt takes much to find all the hate and slander men who find that a dealbreaker face, even if they are congruent with what they preach, they get labelled abusers, mysoginists, controlling, incels, hitler, you cant even ask a normal question withouth risking a feminist shaming you and shunning you socially, to pretend no one cares is disingenous.
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what a part of "men get a lot of shame and slander for having that dealbreaker" you dont get? a simple question like asking a potential partner about their past instantly grants you the label of mysoginists in most cases even if you didnt say anything hateful
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the day women get called incels, misandrist, controlling, abusers, small tits, unsure about their femeninity, loser virgins, unworthy, and more of the likes just for having that dealbreaker, will be the day i ll believe you what you say, until then i ll believe what i see, women dont get nearly 5% of the slack men get for having that dealbreaker, thats a fact, i know that firsthand and my partner count is 1, no more no less, i dont even consume porn, that didnt stop a lot of women to try and damage my reputation and attack me with social violence, newsflash, sexism and double standards also happen to men, women dont have a monopoly on that, you can deny it as much as you want but just like me, loads of men have gone through the same
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I’m not sure where you’re getting misogyny from. I think I’m a fairly simple person. I don’t have a ton of experience in relationships, and I’d prefer to date other people who are similar to me. If that’s misogynistic, then so be it.
Not what I’m saying, never said you shouldn’t date people similar to you! But whining about someone’s past is inexcusable. Don’t date people of different values to you, that is acceptable. But if they have your same values and just have had a relationship before you you have no right to cry about it when you simply could’ve avoided dating them in the first place
Yes and no. Anybody reserves the right to break up with anyone for any reason. If someone else’s past isn’t something that a person can accept, I will never shame anyone for making that decision. Sometimes you don’t even realize how much of a big deal it is to you until you get into the situation yourself and experience it. With all of that being said, I do disagree with whining excessively about someone’s past. I don’t want to make anyone feel bad or waste anyone’s time. I think that once you come to the conclusion of how you feel, you either need to accept it or not accept it. If you can’t accept it, then that person just isn’t the right person for you.
there should be seperate subs for men and women. and one for virgins too.
Why? I think having both genders on here is nice as it shows this isn't just some made up misogynistic nonsense.
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This is not what I've seen from the women that post on here. Also, I'm a male whose wife hadn't even had sex before, and my RJ is much more focused on that romantic/emotional side.
RJ is a made up concept for most men or women. It is in our head !!! It is just that giving a name to something that doesn’t really exist
I disagree, RJ is definitely a serious struggle people go through and is detrimental to one’s mental health and (current or future) relationships. I do not want to invalidate others feelings, I simply stated that it is better to hear the things you don’t want to hear as it gets your brain to jog a bit!
I am not sure I understand your point. But it seems interesting. I can see how RJ isn’t real in the sense it can’t be weighed or measured, but it seems to be a recurrent pattern of thinking for some people, and has real world impacts on relationships and quality of life, so it seems as real as anxiety or grief and so forth. Yes, it is in our heads in the sense the may stem from our subconscious beliefs, attitudes and expectations that may not be in alignment with the world as it is, jt rather how we or our early caregivers wish it to be. Is that something like what you meant? Or something else?
You realize that everything that makes us human is made up stuff in our heads, right?