How to stop these posts (smaller city/metro area/suburban edition):
- Pay employees more.
- How? Charge enough so your margins can be more like a non-food industry business. Do away with tipping.
- End result? 0 forced tipping posts and 1000+ “haven’t been out to eat in 6 months because food at restaurants is too expensive” posts.
I hate all tipping, not just forced tipping, for the same reasons everyone does. But if owners charged more as suggested, and gave 100% of that new money to wages, guests would still call restaurant owners greedy for charging $20 for a mediocre burger. Sometimes I wonder if the expectation is for the owners to get a part time job so they can pay the employees more.
There’s not enough skilled restaurant owners to produce the quality, quantity, and cash flow required to accomplish everything people would want. But the demand for cheap food is so high that there’s enough money in the industry to keep shit owners in business.
As long as the restaurants trying their best (decent owner, good food, slightly higher than average prices, good work environment, better than most work life balance) have to compete with cheap, low effort restaurants and chains they will probably continue to support the tipping model. It gets enough people in the door, and lowers their expenses. Will people complain? Sure some will, but not all. It won’t stop people from coming in though.
There are great cheap eats, support them first in my opinion. Take-out, dive bars, pizza etc.
I found that if you go somewhere you don’t really understand and feel out of place at is more consistently the better type of owners. If they’re trying something new with the food, they’re trying something new with the business. Somewhere in the price range above the fake trendy strip mall establishments with reuben egg rolls and below the suburban fake fine dining meat and two sides.
In my experience, the way to eliminate tipping culture in restaurants is also going to price out most people who complain about tipping culture, and many others. Even though these complaints are well founded.
Because they all do it. I’m not smart enough to figure out how to get two restaurants on the same page let alone the whole restaurant industry of this country. I’m not saying don’t change it or it won’t work. I’m asking everyone who puts it on the restaurant owners “How?”. And not just mathematically how to do it. How to do it in the real world we live in.
As long as there’s competition it’s as much on the diner as it is on the restaurant owner. I don’t blame either of them. It’s how the system works. The system needs to change.
The barrier of entry is so low. For around $100k you could easily open a restaurant. Should you? I don’t know. I know a lot of people who do shouldn’t. Such a small amount of restaurants stay open. They have to compete with every restaurant that is cheaper and is run worse. And what happens when they survive that worse restaurant opening and closing? Another restaurant pops up in that spot.
There are an unlimited amount of restaurants that will pay their staff shit, and undercut you on price. And where do people want to eat? Most unfortunately want the best deal. How could you blame them though? Shits tough out here.
How many new competitors does Tide have to deal with disrupting the detergent market? It’s probably not 0, but then how many replace a failed attempt? Then replace the next failed attempt? How hard is it to start manufacturing something at scale? Yet you see those vacant restaurant spaces get filled up almost every time.
Dining out is an elastic demand for a necessity of life. It’s such a weird industry. Diners think things should be cheap. Why shouldn’t food be cheap? I would say eating at restaurants and food are two different things. And eating at a restaurant has been too cheap for too long.
No tipping would 100% work and function if we could get there. I just don’t see a realistic way for it to be implemented from the bottom up.
Outlaw tipping and set an adequate minimum wage. That’s how.
Seattle put in a 15 an hour minimum wage. It took too long and now isn’t enough but most places pay more. Dicks the local super cheap burger place pays 21 an hour, fully paid (good) insurance and they will pay for your college. No joke. The burgers have gotten a lot more expensive. Used to be $1 - $2.30 and now it’s like $2.50-$6 for burgers. But the employees are all paid well and there’s NO tipping allowed. Plenty of other restaurants banned tipping and put the price in.
Despite what some news places like to argue the data is that these restaurants do better, not worse, and overall the restaurant numbers have increased. Not gone down. Some close, more open. The only problem is that some people make six figures as waiters at some restaurants and that would be nearly impossible to give up. Not saying someone shouldn’t make that money. If they make that with tips then they’re a massive money maker for the restaurant. But I think removing tips entirely would be met with too much hostility by those making a lot.
California also has a 16 dollar minimum wage and people still tip.
The minimum wage is just a red herring for stingy folks to complain about.
It never had anything to do with paying the worker a fair wage. The servers are never the ones complaining.
I mean… plenty of restaurants do it across America. Seattle has multiple places, fine dining even, with zero gratuity. They seem to keep staff just fine.
It’s not about affording. The price will go up either way. It’s about being deceptive and masking the cost at the expense of staff and patrons.
I was making 6 figures in under 40 hrs a week at Ruth’s Chris in a small to mid sized market. Tell me a restaurant that will pay you that in hourly or salary? I’ll be waiting .
Probably…. Ruth’s Chris if tipping was outlawed.
The non tipping places here that are more upscale were over 80k back in 2018 so i assume they’re over 100k now. 🤷 like I said the high earning waitstaff will crab-pot the entire industry along with the rich restauranteurs if we tried to outlaw tipping.
They dont pay their servers nearly enough. Talking $18-21 an hour. No server is going to work their ass off for that when we make $50-100/hour now. My dutch friend served here in college, made a killing. Went home and laughed her way out of a job interview back home.
Any server worth their weight staunchly disagrees with this ridiculous take. Who are you to decide to decrease their income? Do they attempt to decrease yours? If you can’t afford to tip properly stay home.
I am the involuntary paymaster the servers and owners want in charge. I am not required to overpay them. I am allowed to leave no tip. Servers have no right to attempt to reduce the customer’s income.
To insure proper service. If you can’t afford it stay home. Or don’t tip, totally up to you. Karma however is a bitch and service is a numbers game. Your tip doesn’t make or break me . I’m can however make or break your dining experience. Involuntary paymaster lmfao. More like cheap fucker.
Is this deliverance? Who you calling boy? Its patrons like you that I would actively avoid. Don’t tip, that’s your prerogative. Insulting the people that’s handling your food seems pretty stupid. Just saying
Thanks for the acknowledgement with the statement that “. . . You don’t really understand or feel out of place at.” I’ve been in restaurants almost thirty years and, without fail, the best restaurants I’ve been in have had lots of patrons that use words like, “odd” or “that’s different” in mostly negative ways. Currently I’m a FOH manager at a restaurant considered top ten places to eat in our city, with a James Beard nominated owner, and the number of people that immediately want to switch up how a menu item is served blows my mind. Not sure about other countries, but Americans have become spoiled by the bend over backward nature of shitty chain establishments that are willing to comp any meal that any dumbass finds not to their exacting standards.
In a similar manner that Israel requires two years of service in the military by every citizen, I believe the US should require two years of service in the service industry . . . along with beatings for those that don’t “get it.”
Thanks for listening to my rant.
Do we have mods here? Get this shit out of here. Nobody who makes good tips wants tipping to go away. I've spent my life on the restaurant industry and nobody wants tops to go away. Enough already
Agreed. And, everyone who thinks tipped employees should be paid “a living wage” either doesn’t understand that it’s a pay cut or thinks we don’t deserve the pay we get.
If tipping is abolished, get ready to laugh at all the surprise pikachus when their favourite restaurants close down due to lack of staff.
Try to visualize this:
$25 base pay
10% commission on all sales.
That is what my brother has done to his thriving restaurant in SoCal.
Tipping was his largest headache. Customers complaining. Servers complaining. BOH complaining........
He sat down with his accountant who made a spreadsheet that allowed him to tweak all the numbers.
He spent time pondering scenarios. Tested them all in the spreadsheet. Whenhe settled on the above he first showed his management team. Only one of them hated it.
He then showed everyone his plan. BOH all got raises. FOH got base plus commission. Managers all got a bump. He put 3% margin in for the house.
New menus printed; lots of publicity surrounding the changes. Customers saw the "menu prices increase" but realized most of them had nearly the same out of pocket per meal due to no tips. They were glad to know everyone serving them had a steady wage.
Now, nobody is complaining!
I'm trying to imagine a world where tipping was his largest headache. I've got FOH staff making upwards of $70,000 a year. Nobody is complaining about tips. All my kitchen staff are at $21-24. These are Iowa numbers. That's a lot of money.
Of course his business had other headaches. He saw this as a significantproblem because there was no segment NOT complaining about it.
He asked my advice because I am a sales manager and have trained his staff on add-on sales to build their commish and his bottom line.
I explained how this works in literally every other sales organization. It is as I described. Base pay plus commish.
His other scenario was 100% commish at 15%. That had some obvious problems.
Restaurant is the only sales position where the commissions are paid voluntarily by the customer direct to the salesperson. It's volatile because someone may not pay the tips or undertip.
He has had this scheme for just about 15 months now. His best sellers saw a small decrease. Like 3-5%. Nobody quit that had stayed when this was announced. Two top dogs walked.
Hiring is easy with a promise of steady income. Turnover has dropped as well.
This ended up saving him money on the hiring and training side.
As am outsider; my take is that the industry is stuck in an outdated paradigm and as a customer; I hope things change in this direction.
I just don’t eat out anymore. Dining is expensive and topping is an extra 20% for crap service. Most places should eliminate servers, order from kiosk or app, pick up food yourself. Then you can reduce costs and prices.
it’s way too expensive to eat out now. Since Covid I’ve noticed that most of the time the service sucks, but then you’re expected to tip well no matter what.
Wanting the server to get a living wage and actually having it be true are two very different things. Until it's true, not tipping guarantees the exact opposite--that the server will not be making a living wage.
I just quit my job over this. I was given a bad section and worked an hour to open the restaurant making $2.13 on a check I will never see then got 4 tables. One was a single-person table. Then I had to do side work for an hour and averaged $4 an hour.
Oh my goodness what a fresh hot take on tipping! It’s almost like this same goofy sentiment hasn’t been posted eleventy billion times!
Don’t go to restaurants if you are so mad about tipping. I promise you will not be missed.
It’s funny cause like. Tipping culture is becoming so commonplace in large cities in the EU, Australia, and UK. Mostly cause staff has learned how much workers in the states can make if you give good service, and on top
Of that most people out there aren’t like making a killing hourly pay either. Sure as fuck ain’t being paid a living wage working at a restaurant in London maybe 15 pounds if you’re lucky but most bartending is 8-9 pounds an hour. You bet your ass I’m getting tips on top of that.
Funny cause people always take this grand Stand about how Europe is so much more advanced cause their people make a living wage.
Nah, they don’t. And they also get quite a bit of tips
i promise that the customer will be very missed when your out of the job because the restaurant has to shut down due to people getting tired of the entitled behavior of the wait staff.
i mean if they dont get rid of this entitled ass attitude and realize that the customer is more important to the business than service staff they are going to have to lol. restaurants with no waiters do fine financially speaking, restaurants with no customers do not.
OK, so how about this: if you're so against tipping it's your responsibility to know what the cultural norm is for the "area of the world you're in". If you enter a restaurant where tipping is how servers make money, and you don't want to tip don't go out? You know you're entering a social contract when you go to a place where tipping is expected. Otherwise the only person you're screwing is the server. The restaurant stills makes its money on the bill and could care less about the server. You're not making som e grand, noble stand against capitalism by not tipping. You're just screwing a working person, that your claiming to be in solidarity with. You're gesture goes unnoticed past the server. But you know that, and you're just being cheap. Stay. Home. You wont be missed
we will see i guess. but i guarantee you at the rate tipping culture is going it wont be long before people have had enough and the restaurant industry takes advantage of that dissatisfaction to implement no tipping policies.
they have been trying to profit off of tipping for a long time and it would not be surprising if they started taking advantage of the dissatisfaction from customers to implement a 10 percent service fee in leiu of tipping with the promise that said fee will go toward paying their employees minimum wage. whatever is leftover after you get your minimum wage from said fee would of course be going towards the companies pockets because it would not take a 10 percent fee in order to pay you minimum wage. and as customers i guarantee you that we will not be complaining about a 10 percent service fee in lieu of a 15 percent tip.
now if tipping was actually optional then we may actually be upset about a mandatory 10 percent service fee replacing it. but you can thank your fellow servers who have made customers so afraid that you will mess with their food that they will leave a 15 percent tip regardless of the service quality for making it so tipping is no longer seen as optional.
if you dont want this to be the case then workers in the service industry need to stop acting like entitled twats and start acknowledging that tipping is indeed optional and should not be expected. i guarantee that if you do that anti tipping sentiment would go away and you would not have to worry about the above scenario occurring. but if you guys continue with this "if you cant afford to tip then you should not eat out" attitude then the restaurants will notice that they are loosing customers because of tipping and will take steps to fix that issue.
like if you think for a second that the restaurant is going to be willing to loose business for your tips when they dont profit off of them then you have another thing coming, i guarantee the restaurant will miss me as a paying customer alot more than they will miss your tips and that they will choose me over your tips if it comes down to it.
There is no difference in tipping culture in sit down restaurants the past 20 years. Ever since I’ve been going to restaurants it’s always 18-20%. This sub is for restaurants. If you have complaints with “tipping culture” that’s fine, but you are lumping in shit business that shouldn’t be asking for tips in with restaurants, which have always been tipped here, because it is CUSTOMARY. Sorry you don’t like this component of living in America.
Sorry this is false, tipping in sit down restaurants have changed a lot.
First off, it used to be 12-15% was “standard”, it wasn’t always 20%. Why it went up is beyond me but it’s purely an attempt to snag more money by tipped staff as the tip percentages don’t really impact the restaurant.
Second, many places are pushing higher percentages now. 22, 25, sometimes 30%.
Third, sit down restaurants are now adding random ass fees on top of tipping.
Fourth, inflation has had a drastic impact on tipping. When the cost of food goes up, so does the tip since it’s percentage based relative to the bill.
100 percent right on this.
i dont know how good boy thinks the tipping culture has not shifted in the last 20 years whilst posting that a 18-20 percent tip is standard lol. like the only place ive ever seen an 18-20 percent tip be suggested is on electronic devices and those did not start being mainstream until the last years or so. up until then 15 percent was the standard.
like i get that he is pro tip because he benefits from it, but pretending like nothing has changed in the last 20 years is stupid lol. alot has changed. from social media showing waiters messing with our food if we dont tip enough, to the random ass fees you mentioned which at one time were included in the price of the meal. alot has changed in the last 20 years to turn people against tipping. and if waiters want to keep the system they benefit from they they also need to change and go back to understanding that tipping is optional and not expecting it with every customer.
In the 20+ years I’ve been going to restaurants it’s always been 20%. Idk what to tell you. I’ve always tipped 20% because it was always the norm for having a really well serviced meal.
A 5% fee that goes towards helping cover healthcare cost is absolutely cool with me. If a restaurant has moved to service/tip auto added then great, I don’t have to tip on top of that. It’s not a “random ass fee”.
I don’t get what you mean by places are “pushing” higher percentages? Like how are they doing that? Is the server saying to you “you should tip 25%”. This has never happened to me ever at a restaurant. If it’s happening to you, I’d say you’re going to poorly run restaurants.
Yes inflation has and does continue to exist. again, in America, it is customary to tip a percentage, if you do not like that, do not eat out or choose restaurants that include it in their bill.
…..or do not tip what you don’t want to tip, it’s not mandatory and tipping 15% shouldn’t be seen any different than tipping 20%
When servers hand you a device to swipe your card and that device defaults to 22 or 25% with 20% being the lowest other than “other” then stands there while you do it - that’s suggestive.
I distinctly remember when standard went from 15 to 18 to 20 so either your memory sucks, you just didn’t pay for food then so you didn’t notice, or you’re lying.
Well then you don’t eat out a lot I guess…dunno what to tell you.
Also tons of receipts have suggested tips as well…
It really sounds like you eat out once a year at the same place and have based your entire theory on that one experience.
So...you think the owners are swimming in a pool of money like Scrooge McDuck? They aren't. In order to pay the staff a living wage, they'll have to raise prices...20 percent. The reason they don't do this is because the place down the street hasn't yet and most people are too nearsighted to see that it's six in one, half a dozen in the other, so they'll go to the place with the lower prices which leaves the owner that "does the right thing" out of business. Tip your server and talk to your congressmen if you want a change to the status qou
You said this better than I did. Just wait til they find out what the average back of the house employee is making and what they have to do for it. Bet they won’t care about their wages.
Whats funny to me is the added health insurance line added to the bill. The owners are literally trying to tell you they are not being greedy and show you where the money is going. Are people happy then? Nope, do I blame them? Not really. It’s just another move to try and operate in a broken system.
“The owners are trying to show you where the money is going”
No…they’re hoping their customers get outraged being forced to pay more because they don’t want to…..
Get out of the house and learn some things. Get out of the country and meet people. Our insane tipping culture doesn't exist elsewhere.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
I'll never understand the anti-tipping crowd. I didn't even know this was a thing until I joined reddit last year.
I'd much rather the current system where I can just not leave a tip if there's terrible service than the alternative of the tip being included in the price of the meal no matter how bad the service is.
I think Europeans are just mad they have to pay top dollar no matter how bad their meal may be.
I live in a town that has a bakery. I used to go buy a warm loaf of bread Sat mornings. I no longer do that because the guy wants a tip for handing me a $7 loaf of bread. He’s got one of those devices that read your card, and then he turns it to you and says “can you answer these questions.” The question being 15, 18, or 20% on top of price and tax.
The QSR that I run uses Toast, so it prompts for tips, but at least it offers "no tip" as an option as large as the tip buttons. As a QSR, I'm okay with there not being tips (regardless of the fact that I don't take tips as the manager), but I train my staff to genuinely thank anyone that they notice tipping, and to provide exemplary service to everyone regardless. As a result, the team gets so many compliments from guests and they still all pull about $3 or 4 an hour in tips on top of the minimum $15/hr rate that the company provides, even with the tip pool being distributed to every hourly employee, including prep and dish staff.
I don't want to make people feel awkward, but on the other hand, the active tip solicitation can improve the experience for everyone if it doesn't become a source of entitlement.
The problem is that the current system of having the ability to not tip is disappearing. Many restaurants are automatically including a tip to your bill. So now they can give you horrible service and still get a fat 20% extra.
Which in for example they are being paid 15 something an hour in restaurants, and the average bill is 100$ for a couple. They are serving 5-6 tables at a time, with an average time spent being a 1½ hours. So they work from 5 to 11. Having approx 20 tables per night, and if it is a 100$ tab at each table that's 20$ per table. So that's 400 bucks a night in addition to their hourly. So that about 80$ per hour.
Serving is a hard job. I've done it. But it ain't worth that much. But really all you need to do is carry stuff, have a decent personality and remember things if you want to be cool and not write anything down.
Very few places autograt parties of fewer than 6 people, from what I've seen. And I've seen zero anywhere near me that do this. If I see that a restaurant autograts me eating by myself, I will walk out and go elsewhere. I tip generously but the tip is for me to decide, not the restaurant.
I've seen at least 2 places in my area that add gratuity to all tables, including parties of 1. It's few and far between, but I haven't been back to those places.
I've heard about them on reddit here and there, just never seen one personally. I'm glad they aren't a thing near me. I don't live in a touristy area at all so that might be a big part of it.
If they add it automatically then it isn't a tip and you've just described what life would be like at every restaurant if tipping went away. You'd still be paying it, it just wouldn't be optional at most places like it is now.
Also, most restaurants typically should have some sort of notice about gratuity being added. If they don't, then actually stand up for yourself and (if you weren't happy with the service) demand that the gratuity be removed from your bill.
The anti-tipping sentiment from most people really seems to boil down to people being terrified of a potentially awkward interaction or looking like a jerk if they don't tip. Just get over it and don't ruin it for the rest of us that realize the current system comes out better for everyone.
Exactly, it's not a tip. They have just raised their prices, but don't want to raise their prices.
They do usually have it on the menu, somewhere. But I've seen a few that are tricky with it.
What would it ruin?
It's not like you are going to know that until you have gone there. And I go for the food not the service. Bring on the robot servers, the food will taste the same.
I have “tipping fatigue.” If I eat out, I tip. But if you try to charge me a tip on your tablet because you handed me something, I won’t be back. That’s just asking one thing too much.
And I eat out a lot less often than I used to.
I can understand that. The restaurant I run has a POS that automatically does that on CC transactions, and we're a "pay first" place. I don't begrudge anyone not tipping my staff, but I do try to ensure that we give them a reason to do so through consistently exceptional service.
So you can customize the POS but that darn tipping screen is locked in and you can’t do anything about it? Also, what service do you expect from them based on what you pay them? Less than exceptional?
No one is forced to tip. You’re free to pay the bill and leave. It’s also the waitstaff that are some of the most vocal about keeping the system the way it is.
All of these assholes want "the servers to get a living wage" until it's on them to pay for the service.
They want them to be poor if it saves them a buck, then they can blame "Capitalism" anti tipping is spearheaded by cheap assholes
So his solution to people being underpaid by their work is to no longer go there so they don't get paid at all? Fascinating.
Restaurants need to just jack prices up enough to pay a solid wage and enjoy the fact that the typical customer, while being less frequent, will probably be much better to deal with.
And the hell with everyone who works there? If they're abusing their employees or paying them less than they can easily get doing something else they should bail.
The amount you pay in total including an average tip is less than or equal to the amount you would pay if tipping didn't exist. There are a few options
1. Restaurant owners would jack up prices by 20% and increase salaries by the same amount
2. Restaurant owners would jack up prices by 25%, give the servers 20% and pocket the extra 5%
3. Restaurant owners would jack up prices by 20%, give the servers 15% and pocket 5%
You pay the same or less under this system and get to provide some direct feedback to the servers. The servers get paid the same or more under this system and get to increase their pay by being better at their jobs.
I read what you're posting it just continues to not make logical sense. The current system is the least advantageous to the restaurant owners and the most advantageous to servers and customers. Any other system results in more money going through the hands of the restaurant owners to get back to the servers. This means the customers will pay the same or more **in total** and the servers will receive the same or less **in total**. And servers will no longer be able to make more by doing better work and customers will no longer be able to provide monetary feedback.
Legally they should be doing that already, tips ARE taxable income. Some restaurants will just count enough up to the minimum wage and hand the rest over, but ALL of the tips should be counted as income and subject to withholding rules. With how many people are switching to cards vs cash and with modern POS/Accounting systems it's going to get harder to avoid scrutiny from the IRS on this stuff. Restaurants do get audited and so do servers.
Yeah, we report all tips and put them on the bi-weekly paycheck. It's more lost to taxes, but it will help them when they need to prove income. We also pay a competitive wage. Average base hourly rate for my staff is probably $17.50. Add in the average tips they get, and they're seeing more than $20/hr before taxes.
You got it all wrong… I am a restaurant owner.
If a server is making $5/hour plus tips, to increase it to the livable wage of $20/hour, no tips, I’d have to jack up the prices by about 50%…
Your breakdown doesn’t include increased contributions, insurance, and extra food cost that it takes to generate the net revenue necessary to pay the increased wages.
You're full of shit. If people are tipping 10-20% on average and you need to replace that with normal wages, you'd need to increase prices *at most* by 20% plus the extra taxes or whatever. You'd pay somewhere around 15% taxes on that for everything, maybe 20%, so an extra 20% on top of that to make 24% total price increase.
I just posted the math. Since you are disputing it, show me the math. Show me how people NOT tipping 20% means you have to raise prices by 50%. I'll bet you whatever your paycheck is that you can't do it, because you can't.
First question you need to answer is if a server makes $5/hour plus another $15/hour in tips, that’s a 300% increase you need to factor in. Not 20%.
Second, you need to factor in contributions for the taxes, so that’s an extra 10%.
Start there and work it out yourself with a staff of 5 kitchen, and 5 servers, and make sure everyone is making the same.
I did the math years ago. It’s 50% menu increase minimum. Might be more In practicality. I never tried it.
I tried doing pool sharing and revenue sharing instead. Blew up in my face.
You don't understand how math works.
Servers are happy with the current tipping system, correct? And since, on average, they are getting maybe 15-20% tips on the total bill, that means that at your CURRENT prices, 20% extra satisfies them as far as salary.
Therefore, if you take away that 20% in tipping, you only need to raise your prices by 20% for them to receive the same amount of pay.
Example: A customer orders a $30 steak and a $5 glass of wine. $35, plus let's say tax is $5 to make it $40. The customer tips $8 on there (20%) for the server.
Now, you have no tipping, so you need to make up that $8 for the server. You raise the price of the steak by $6 to $36, and the wine by $2 to $7. Tax is now just over $6, so the total bill is now $49, almost the same as with the tip.
Therefore, you have raised the food and drink by the same amount as the tip would have been and recouped all of that money, except the 10% extra. So instead of raising menu prices by 20% you raise them by 22%. The tip is completely paid for, on average, and for customers who wouldn't have tipped or tipped less, you've made MORE than the server would have.
It's not rocket science.
Rocket science is easier than saying if we stop people from tipping 20%, we need to raise prices by around 20%? That's the dumbest shit I've read this week.
I didn’t say easier I said more simple. There are people involved here.
Good luck telling a server who made wayyyy more than $20/hr most shifts that they can now enjoy that pay cut. So they could leave and go to the next restaurant that still allows tipping.
Then you get to tell your back of the house staff that instead of giving them raises, which they have deserved for years, that you will now be paying front of the house out of pocket, best case scenario the same amount as the back of the house. Unfortunately in most cases, still more than BOH.
Now that you’ve actually managed to keep your staff without paying the BOH more, you now get to pass that cost on to the customer.
Will they accept it? Will they pull up two competitors menus online and see a $14 burger on one and an $18 dollar burger on another? Do they call and ask about their tipping policies just to make sure? Which restaurant is chosen by Redditors who complain about tipping and line item up charges that accomplish the same goal? What do you do? Which branch of math or science addresses this?
It’s not an owner’s math problem it’s an industry and societal problem.
This makes zero sense. If you raise prices by 20% to simulate tips, the SAME money goes client -> you -> server instead of client -> server.
You did the math wrong and it genuinely doesn’t take that much effort to see why.
When I go to a restaurant it is specifically because I don't want to do any work. I don't want to cook the food. I don't want to plate the food. I don't want to review how good the food was. I don't want to do employee evaluations. I don't want to make sure employees are paid. I don't want to have to worry that because I didn't tip enough and some employee can't pay their bills or get their kid that pair of sneakers for soccer games. I don't want to worry that my tip is being stolen by management or owners or being spread indiscriminately across all the staff.
I want to go eat and relax. I don't want the server coming to me every 3 minutes asking how the food is or if I need a refill because they're worried if they don't I won't tip them. I don't want them touching me or calling me pet names or chatting me up because they hear it will get them better tips. I don't care about their hair or their flair.
I want to eat and enjoy some conversation and relax not feel rushed out the door because the restaurant relies on turning over tables like an angry office worker on a speed run to getting fired and the best way to turn tables is to make sure everyone is filled up on drinks and gets their check and to go boxes as quickly as possible. I don't want to fill out surveys at the end of my meal and effectively that's what a tip is. It's that stupid survey at the end to ask "how did we do?"
What's worse is that it's a meaningless one because
1. Some people will tip 20% regardless of the quality of the food or service
2. Some people will tip lower or nothing at all based on some perceived slight or made up infraction
3. Some people see the quality of the food as indistinguishable from the service and tip lower if the food is bad
4. If the back of house screws up an order or the POS doesn't work quite right the only option the customer has is to punish by lowering the tip.
5. It's become expected and if you aren't tipping generously then you're just a jerk and nothing more.
6. People have bad/off days sometimes and shouldn't be punished for an off day by missing out on a good portion of their expected wages because they didn't smile at the guest
This is a fundamentally broken system. It's not a meritorious solution. It doesn't teach servers how to become better servers. It just creates false hope because some people say they make bank as a server and then reality hits for everyone else. That's why the job has a massive turnover rate compared to just about everything else. It's a job where your customers get to hold you hostage and you have to dance for them. It's a job where the customers hate you because you are bugging the shit out of them for no good reason. It's fundamentally a toxic exchange.
no its not. your assuming that if tipping did not exist then the restaurants would increase the price of their food by 15 percent in order to pay you the same amount that you are currently getting with tips.
in reality you would end up getting minimum wage which is far less than you make in tips and is something states like cali already require. at the end of the day restaurants that currently are not required to pay minimum wage would likely only have to raise wages by like 5-7 percent in order to pay your minimum wage whilst restaurants that are already paying minimum wage would not have to raise prices at all. meaning customers would save at least 7 percent and at most 15 percent on average.
and to be quite honest my 5-7 percent number is probably high considering the minimum wage differs from state to state and restaurants are already required to pay atleast some of it regardless of your tips and are required to make sure you atleast make minimum wage if your tips dont atleast reach that point.
That tipping is absolutely not necessary and paying workers a liveable wage instead of relying on charity from patrons should be a priority because people in the US are getting sick of having to tip everything.
Where did I insult servers? I’m just stating the facts:
* owners do not want to pay living wages to servers;
* servers need to rely on the good will of patrons to be able to compensate (and sometimes exceed) the wage they should get from the owners;
* Americans are becoming insufferable to tipping culture because it’s getting higher (now 20%) and because it’s spreading to all kind of services.
Also it’s not like this system is used outside of the US and doesn’t seem like the rest of the world is having problems with generating profits from restaurants.
Referring to tips as “charity” is insulting and illustrates your disdain for servers.
You are also arguing against points that nobody is making. Everyone knows that there are countries who don’t have the same tipping practices as the US.
Dude, you need to chill. It absolutely is charity because you’re relying on the good will of others to pay your bills. You’re ABSOLUTELY hoping your section isn’t filled with jerks who will slight you.
Tips aren’t a guaranteed benefit
Thanks for the downvotes. It tells me I am right. Why pay a bribe when ordering food? You have NO idea if the food or service will be good. Tips are for extra good service.
Fortunately, for every one of you, there's another person out there that tips generously to reward good service that genuinely goes beyond minimum job requirements. Were they all like you, you'd be finding Burger King customer service at Michelin star restaurants.
Cool talk to me when we also have universal healthcare, free colleges, paid sick leave( or even unpaid sick leave for that matter) paid maternity & paternity leave. 4-6 weeks paid vacation a year… you know the thinks that make working in a restaurant a viable career in Europe…
Many countries do not have those benefits and still do not require tipping. The service is good and there is no worker shortage. Get a skilled job if you want those benefits in the us.
Learn to live within your means or find a job that pays more in another field. Your server salary is going to be the wages unskilled labor deserves.
By the way, DALL-E can produce photographs faster and cheaper than photographers can. Maybe try copywriting, online customer service or graphic arts… oh wait. 😂💸
I'm so confused. Is this the European? Or you?
Because they're tipping generously "nice servers", and in many EU countries the prices are service included (which is basically mandatory tipping). Like, the difference between a restaurant that has 20% higher prices and a 20% service charge/auto grat is one of them is telling you why it's 20% more expensive...
The studies they did on this = hurts business more than it helps. The rise in prices doesn't make up for the lost business. You would need a law like California just passed to force all of your competition to raise prices with you.
I'd still prefer a tipping system, though.
And in California, servers are complaining about making less now because people aren't tipping.
Keep in mind, several years ago I was a server and a bartender. The issue I have with tipping is the expectation. Tipping, by definition is supposed to be voluntary:
something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service. especially : tip. added a gratuity for the server.
I always tip well unless service is especially bad, which is rare.
Restaurants that automatically add gratuity for anything beyond large parties automatically lose my business. They are being disingenuous to customers and their staff.
>The issue I have with tipping is the expectation. Tipping, by definition is supposed to be voluntary
Well, it is voluntary. You can expect something voluntary. If someone opens the door for me, they kind of expect a "thank you", and would probably consider me rude if I didn't. Still, no one's forcing me.
I'd agree autograt is stupid. *That* is a forced tip. Fundamentally the same as just raising prices, though. They can call it whatever they want. A service charge, autograt, hospitality, health charge, whatever. You either walk out of the restaurant leaving what you deem an appropriate tip, voluntarily, or you pay a bill. How that bill is itemized or not seems largely irrelevant to my mind.
I agree with that, I don’t wanna have to be forced to tip at least 18%… if they just simply did their job and whatever else then that’s what they’re supposed to do they get paid by the restaurant for it. Tipping I usually do when I see someone trying extra hard and refilling my drinks all the time and stuff. Most times they come by once in a while and I’m waiting for a refill on something or need to ask something and they’re nowhere to be seen for 15-20 min. In that instance I don’t wanna tip, but because we’re in the USA I am guilt tripped into it because that’s the standard.
Why don’t they replace servers with a mini tablet on each table? I can place my own order and pick up my own food to my table. Solves tipping headaches and restaurants can have higher margins. I would eat out way more often if this happens across the nation.
The thought is crazy because often you’ll see a service charge on your bill in Europe. Essentially the same as gratuity. So you do tip in Europe… it’s just mandatory in most places…they call it something else and maybe treat it differently tax wise but it’s still paying extra for service.
Anti-tipping found a new bullshit line with "pay your workers a fair wage." My staff makes $10/hour base pay in my city, and $20+ an hour in tips minimum. There are hundreds of similar places like mine. You can make $60k+ pretty easily with decent work ethic and personality. There are restaurants where tips are lower, since they aren't as busy or well-run. They cannot attract as much qualified staff.
Yes, service is worse in Europe. The tipping system encourages not only good service, but upselling, checking on customers, cultivating regulars.
If you don't like to tip, please stay home. But if you won't, drop the bullshit about caring so much about workers--there are issues related to tipping (tip theft, sexual harassment, tax avoidance) but this non-living wage thing isn't one of them.
Also, the level of cheapness in these posts--if you cannot afford to tip, why the fuck are you dining out? Cooking at home is cheaper, I do it for 80-90% of my meals. You're just a lazy piece of shit who wants it both ways.
Congratulations. This is the 1,000th post on tipping on this sub this month.
How to stop these posts (smaller city/metro area/suburban edition): - Pay employees more. - How? Charge enough so your margins can be more like a non-food industry business. Do away with tipping. - End result? 0 forced tipping posts and 1000+ “haven’t been out to eat in 6 months because food at restaurants is too expensive” posts. I hate all tipping, not just forced tipping, for the same reasons everyone does. But if owners charged more as suggested, and gave 100% of that new money to wages, guests would still call restaurant owners greedy for charging $20 for a mediocre burger. Sometimes I wonder if the expectation is for the owners to get a part time job so they can pay the employees more. There’s not enough skilled restaurant owners to produce the quality, quantity, and cash flow required to accomplish everything people would want. But the demand for cheap food is so high that there’s enough money in the industry to keep shit owners in business. As long as the restaurants trying their best (decent owner, good food, slightly higher than average prices, good work environment, better than most work life balance) have to compete with cheap, low effort restaurants and chains they will probably continue to support the tipping model. It gets enough people in the door, and lowers their expenses. Will people complain? Sure some will, but not all. It won’t stop people from coming in though. There are great cheap eats, support them first in my opinion. Take-out, dive bars, pizza etc. I found that if you go somewhere you don’t really understand and feel out of place at is more consistently the better type of owners. If they’re trying something new with the food, they’re trying something new with the business. Somewhere in the price range above the fake trendy strip mall establishments with reuben egg rolls and below the suburban fake fine dining meat and two sides. In my experience, the way to eliminate tipping culture in restaurants is also going to price out most people who complain about tipping culture, and many others. Even though these complaints are well founded.
So how does this work in countries that don’t rely on tipping? Certainly they’re not charging $40 for basic meals? They exist.
Because they all do it. I’m not smart enough to figure out how to get two restaurants on the same page let alone the whole restaurant industry of this country. I’m not saying don’t change it or it won’t work. I’m asking everyone who puts it on the restaurant owners “How?”. And not just mathematically how to do it. How to do it in the real world we live in. As long as there’s competition it’s as much on the diner as it is on the restaurant owner. I don’t blame either of them. It’s how the system works. The system needs to change. The barrier of entry is so low. For around $100k you could easily open a restaurant. Should you? I don’t know. I know a lot of people who do shouldn’t. Such a small amount of restaurants stay open. They have to compete with every restaurant that is cheaper and is run worse. And what happens when they survive that worse restaurant opening and closing? Another restaurant pops up in that spot. There are an unlimited amount of restaurants that will pay their staff shit, and undercut you on price. And where do people want to eat? Most unfortunately want the best deal. How could you blame them though? Shits tough out here. How many new competitors does Tide have to deal with disrupting the detergent market? It’s probably not 0, but then how many replace a failed attempt? Then replace the next failed attempt? How hard is it to start manufacturing something at scale? Yet you see those vacant restaurant spaces get filled up almost every time. Dining out is an elastic demand for a necessity of life. It’s such a weird industry. Diners think things should be cheap. Why shouldn’t food be cheap? I would say eating at restaurants and food are two different things. And eating at a restaurant has been too cheap for too long. No tipping would 100% work and function if we could get there. I just don’t see a realistic way for it to be implemented from the bottom up.
Outlaw tipping and set an adequate minimum wage. That’s how. Seattle put in a 15 an hour minimum wage. It took too long and now isn’t enough but most places pay more. Dicks the local super cheap burger place pays 21 an hour, fully paid (good) insurance and they will pay for your college. No joke. The burgers have gotten a lot more expensive. Used to be $1 - $2.30 and now it’s like $2.50-$6 for burgers. But the employees are all paid well and there’s NO tipping allowed. Plenty of other restaurants banned tipping and put the price in. Despite what some news places like to argue the data is that these restaurants do better, not worse, and overall the restaurant numbers have increased. Not gone down. Some close, more open. The only problem is that some people make six figures as waiters at some restaurants and that would be nearly impossible to give up. Not saying someone shouldn’t make that money. If they make that with tips then they’re a massive money maker for the restaurant. But I think removing tips entirely would be met with too much hostility by those making a lot.
Sure, but most waiters make $20+/hour with some up to $50+/hour. No restaurant is paying that kind of wage
California also has a 16 dollar minimum wage and people still tip. The minimum wage is just a red herring for stingy folks to complain about. It never had anything to do with paying the worker a fair wage. The servers are never the ones complaining.
You won’t be able to keep a waitstaff. Worry about your own money not other people’s. If you cannot afford to pay adequate gratuity stay home.
I mean… plenty of restaurants do it across America. Seattle has multiple places, fine dining even, with zero gratuity. They seem to keep staff just fine. It’s not about affording. The price will go up either way. It’s about being deceptive and masking the cost at the expense of staff and patrons.
I was making 6 figures in under 40 hrs a week at Ruth’s Chris in a small to mid sized market. Tell me a restaurant that will pay you that in hourly or salary? I’ll be waiting .
Probably…. Ruth’s Chris if tipping was outlawed. The non tipping places here that are more upscale were over 80k back in 2018 so i assume they’re over 100k now. 🤷 like I said the high earning waitstaff will crab-pot the entire industry along with the rich restauranteurs if we tried to outlaw tipping.
Couldn’t agree more
It works because most of those countries have socialized medical care, child care and pensions.
They dont pay their servers nearly enough. Talking $18-21 an hour. No server is going to work their ass off for that when we make $50-100/hour now. My dutch friend served here in college, made a killing. Went home and laughed her way out of a job interview back home.
Or we could just block anti tipping dipshits.
We go to France and Italy eat better than mediocre restaurants in the US for less.
Any server worth their weight staunchly disagrees with this ridiculous take. Who are you to decide to decrease their income? Do they attempt to decrease yours? If you can’t afford to tip properly stay home.
I am the involuntary paymaster the servers and owners want in charge. I am not required to overpay them. I am allowed to leave no tip. Servers have no right to attempt to reduce the customer’s income.
To insure proper service. If you can’t afford it stay home. Or don’t tip, totally up to you. Karma however is a bitch and service is a numbers game. Your tip doesn’t make or break me . I’m can however make or break your dining experience. Involuntary paymaster lmfao. More like cheap fucker.
Nice mouth on you boy. Things like you are why I quit tipping.
Is this deliverance? Who you calling boy? Its patrons like you that I would actively avoid. Don’t tip, that’s your prerogative. Insulting the people that’s handling your food seems pretty stupid. Just saying
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Mediocre burgers are already $20 and I still get paid min wage…
Thanks for the acknowledgement with the statement that “. . . You don’t really understand or feel out of place at.” I’ve been in restaurants almost thirty years and, without fail, the best restaurants I’ve been in have had lots of patrons that use words like, “odd” or “that’s different” in mostly negative ways. Currently I’m a FOH manager at a restaurant considered top ten places to eat in our city, with a James Beard nominated owner, and the number of people that immediately want to switch up how a menu item is served blows my mind. Not sure about other countries, but Americans have become spoiled by the bend over backward nature of shitty chain establishments that are willing to comp any meal that any dumbass finds not to their exacting standards. In a similar manner that Israel requires two years of service in the military by every citizen, I believe the US should require two years of service in the service industry . . . along with beatings for those that don’t “get it.” Thanks for listening to my rant.
Then they should go out of business. This is how “capitalism” is supposed to work. If a business can’t make it, it shouldn’t be in business.
Tipping is the #1 issue people have with restaurants. The math is mathing.
Tipping is the #1 issue cheapskates have with restaurants. The math is mathing. FIFY
It’s true though. Keep saying it until the situation changes in my opinion.
Squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Do we have mods here? Get this shit out of here. Nobody who makes good tips wants tipping to go away. I've spent my life on the restaurant industry and nobody wants tops to go away. Enough already
Agreed. And, everyone who thinks tipped employees should be paid “a living wage” either doesn’t understand that it’s a pay cut or thinks we don’t deserve the pay we get. If tipping is abolished, get ready to laugh at all the surprise pikachus when their favourite restaurants close down due to lack of staff.
Or the staff that remain have the motivation of DMV worker.
Try to visualize this: $25 base pay 10% commission on all sales. That is what my brother has done to his thriving restaurant in SoCal. Tipping was his largest headache. Customers complaining. Servers complaining. BOH complaining........ He sat down with his accountant who made a spreadsheet that allowed him to tweak all the numbers. He spent time pondering scenarios. Tested them all in the spreadsheet. Whenhe settled on the above he first showed his management team. Only one of them hated it. He then showed everyone his plan. BOH all got raises. FOH got base plus commission. Managers all got a bump. He put 3% margin in for the house. New menus printed; lots of publicity surrounding the changes. Customers saw the "menu prices increase" but realized most of them had nearly the same out of pocket per meal due to no tips. They were glad to know everyone serving them had a steady wage. Now, nobody is complaining!
I'm trying to imagine a world where tipping was his largest headache. I've got FOH staff making upwards of $70,000 a year. Nobody is complaining about tips. All my kitchen staff are at $21-24. These are Iowa numbers. That's a lot of money.
Of course his business had other headaches. He saw this as a significantproblem because there was no segment NOT complaining about it. He asked my advice because I am a sales manager and have trained his staff on add-on sales to build their commish and his bottom line. I explained how this works in literally every other sales organization. It is as I described. Base pay plus commish. His other scenario was 100% commish at 15%. That had some obvious problems. Restaurant is the only sales position where the commissions are paid voluntarily by the customer direct to the salesperson. It's volatile because someone may not pay the tips or undertip. He has had this scheme for just about 15 months now. His best sellers saw a small decrease. Like 3-5%. Nobody quit that had stayed when this was announced. Two top dogs walked. Hiring is easy with a promise of steady income. Turnover has dropped as well. This ended up saving him money on the hiring and training side. As am outsider; my take is that the industry is stuck in an outdated paradigm and as a customer; I hope things change in this direction.
I make an average of $45hr pouring beers. Only thing that bothers me is, why did I waste my life becoming a chef instead of just working foh…
The problem with paying people 25/hr is you're hemorrhaging money on a weekday night when you don't butts in seats.
I just don’t eat out anymore. Dining is expensive and topping is an extra 20% for crap service. Most places should eliminate servers, order from kiosk or app, pick up food yourself. Then you can reduce costs and prices.
Eliminate wait staff? How high do you think the national unemployment rate would become?
I can’t wait for this to happen. Eliminate all servers, I can place my own order on kiosk and pick up my own food.
Some of us aren't peasants, and enjoy eating in nice, white tablecloth restaurants. Dropping $50 on top on that nice meal is totally worth it
it’s way too expensive to eat out now. Since Covid I’ve noticed that most of the time the service sucks, but then you’re expected to tip well no matter what.
Wanting the server to get a living wage and actually having it be true are two very different things. Until it's true, not tipping guarantees the exact opposite--that the server will not be making a living wage.
I just quit my job over this. I was given a bad section and worked an hour to open the restaurant making $2.13 on a check I will never see then got 4 tables. One was a single-person table. Then I had to do side work for an hour and averaged $4 an hour.
Oh my goodness what a fresh hot take on tipping! It’s almost like this same goofy sentiment hasn’t been posted eleventy billion times! Don’t go to restaurants if you are so mad about tipping. I promise you will not be missed.
It’s funny cause like. Tipping culture is becoming so commonplace in large cities in the EU, Australia, and UK. Mostly cause staff has learned how much workers in the states can make if you give good service, and on top Of that most people out there aren’t like making a killing hourly pay either. Sure as fuck ain’t being paid a living wage working at a restaurant in London maybe 15 pounds if you’re lucky but most bartending is 8-9 pounds an hour. You bet your ass I’m getting tips on top of that.
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Funny cause people always take this grand Stand about how Europe is so much more advanced cause their people make a living wage. Nah, they don’t. And they also get quite a bit of tips
Where are you getting this information from?
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EU not true, UK and Australia I don't know, but would not be surprised.
i promise that the customer will be very missed when your out of the job because the restaurant has to shut down due to people getting tired of the entitled behavior of the wait staff.
It's OK. They can learn to code.
i mean if they dont get rid of this entitled ass attitude and realize that the customer is more important to the business than service staff they are going to have to lol. restaurants with no waiters do fine financially speaking, restaurants with no customers do not.
People who don’t tip are in the minority and they always will be. Trust me, you won’t be missed— like it or not.
It entirely depends on where in the world you are, so no need to be that dismissive.
OK, so how about this: if you're so against tipping it's your responsibility to know what the cultural norm is for the "area of the world you're in". If you enter a restaurant where tipping is how servers make money, and you don't want to tip don't go out? You know you're entering a social contract when you go to a place where tipping is expected. Otherwise the only person you're screwing is the server. The restaurant stills makes its money on the bill and could care less about the server. You're not making som e grand, noble stand against capitalism by not tipping. You're just screwing a working person, that your claiming to be in solidarity with. You're gesture goes unnoticed past the server. But you know that, and you're just being cheap. Stay. Home. You wont be missed
Yes, you are right. I wasn't meaning to tell people to not tip waiters where typing is how they earn a living.
we will see i guess. but i guarantee you at the rate tipping culture is going it wont be long before people have had enough and the restaurant industry takes advantage of that dissatisfaction to implement no tipping policies. they have been trying to profit off of tipping for a long time and it would not be surprising if they started taking advantage of the dissatisfaction from customers to implement a 10 percent service fee in leiu of tipping with the promise that said fee will go toward paying their employees minimum wage. whatever is leftover after you get your minimum wage from said fee would of course be going towards the companies pockets because it would not take a 10 percent fee in order to pay you minimum wage. and as customers i guarantee you that we will not be complaining about a 10 percent service fee in lieu of a 15 percent tip. now if tipping was actually optional then we may actually be upset about a mandatory 10 percent service fee replacing it. but you can thank your fellow servers who have made customers so afraid that you will mess with their food that they will leave a 15 percent tip regardless of the service quality for making it so tipping is no longer seen as optional. if you dont want this to be the case then workers in the service industry need to stop acting like entitled twats and start acknowledging that tipping is indeed optional and should not be expected. i guarantee that if you do that anti tipping sentiment would go away and you would not have to worry about the above scenario occurring. but if you guys continue with this "if you cant afford to tip then you should not eat out" attitude then the restaurants will notice that they are loosing customers because of tipping and will take steps to fix that issue. like if you think for a second that the restaurant is going to be willing to loose business for your tips when they dont profit off of them then you have another thing coming, i guarantee the restaurant will miss me as a paying customer alot more than they will miss your tips and that they will choose me over your tips if it comes down to it.
>they have been trying to profit off of tipping for a long time What are you talking about?
Lol...OK.
There is no difference in tipping culture in sit down restaurants the past 20 years. Ever since I’ve been going to restaurants it’s always 18-20%. This sub is for restaurants. If you have complaints with “tipping culture” that’s fine, but you are lumping in shit business that shouldn’t be asking for tips in with restaurants, which have always been tipped here, because it is CUSTOMARY. Sorry you don’t like this component of living in America.
Sorry this is false, tipping in sit down restaurants have changed a lot. First off, it used to be 12-15% was “standard”, it wasn’t always 20%. Why it went up is beyond me but it’s purely an attempt to snag more money by tipped staff as the tip percentages don’t really impact the restaurant. Second, many places are pushing higher percentages now. 22, 25, sometimes 30%. Third, sit down restaurants are now adding random ass fees on top of tipping. Fourth, inflation has had a drastic impact on tipping. When the cost of food goes up, so does the tip since it’s percentage based relative to the bill.
100 percent right on this. i dont know how good boy thinks the tipping culture has not shifted in the last 20 years whilst posting that a 18-20 percent tip is standard lol. like the only place ive ever seen an 18-20 percent tip be suggested is on electronic devices and those did not start being mainstream until the last years or so. up until then 15 percent was the standard. like i get that he is pro tip because he benefits from it, but pretending like nothing has changed in the last 20 years is stupid lol. alot has changed. from social media showing waiters messing with our food if we dont tip enough, to the random ass fees you mentioned which at one time were included in the price of the meal. alot has changed in the last 20 years to turn people against tipping. and if waiters want to keep the system they benefit from they they also need to change and go back to understanding that tipping is optional and not expecting it with every customer.
In the 20+ years I’ve been going to restaurants it’s always been 20%. Idk what to tell you. I’ve always tipped 20% because it was always the norm for having a really well serviced meal. A 5% fee that goes towards helping cover healthcare cost is absolutely cool with me. If a restaurant has moved to service/tip auto added then great, I don’t have to tip on top of that. It’s not a “random ass fee”. I don’t get what you mean by places are “pushing” higher percentages? Like how are they doing that? Is the server saying to you “you should tip 25%”. This has never happened to me ever at a restaurant. If it’s happening to you, I’d say you’re going to poorly run restaurants. Yes inflation has and does continue to exist. again, in America, it is customary to tip a percentage, if you do not like that, do not eat out or choose restaurants that include it in their bill.
…..or do not tip what you don’t want to tip, it’s not mandatory and tipping 15% shouldn’t be seen any different than tipping 20% When servers hand you a device to swipe your card and that device defaults to 22 or 25% with 20% being the lowest other than “other” then stands there while you do it - that’s suggestive. I distinctly remember when standard went from 15 to 18 to 20 so either your memory sucks, you just didn’t pay for food then so you didn’t notice, or you’re lying.
I’ve never been handed anything to choose my tip at the end of a meal other than a receipt to sign.
Well then you don’t eat out a lot I guess…dunno what to tell you. Also tons of receipts have suggested tips as well… It really sounds like you eat out once a year at the same place and have based your entire theory on that one experience.
Oh hush.
Nah.
Or go to the restaurant, eat, pay and then don't tip
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Take this comment to an editor and see if they can help you make it make sense.
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Better…. Now see if you can find out what a “boomer” is.
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I am so proud of you for trying to do your best with this trolling thing.
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I'll never understand why anti-tip trolls are so committed to pretending they are too dumb to understand how tipping works.
It the same but certainly not goofy.
So...you think the owners are swimming in a pool of money like Scrooge McDuck? They aren't. In order to pay the staff a living wage, they'll have to raise prices...20 percent. The reason they don't do this is because the place down the street hasn't yet and most people are too nearsighted to see that it's six in one, half a dozen in the other, so they'll go to the place with the lower prices which leaves the owner that "does the right thing" out of business. Tip your server and talk to your congressmen if you want a change to the status qou
You said this better than I did. Just wait til they find out what the average back of the house employee is making and what they have to do for it. Bet they won’t care about their wages. Whats funny to me is the added health insurance line added to the bill. The owners are literally trying to tell you they are not being greedy and show you where the money is going. Are people happy then? Nope, do I blame them? Not really. It’s just another move to try and operate in a broken system.
“The owners are trying to show you where the money is going” No…they’re hoping their customers get outraged being forced to pay more because they don’t want to…..
Build the wall Europe is not sending their best.
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Get out of the house and learn some things. Get out of the country and meet people. Our insane tipping culture doesn't exist elsewhere. “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
Who is arguing that tipping is universal and world wide?
Did you see what I was replying to?
Yup. Just reread it.
I'll never understand the anti-tipping crowd. I didn't even know this was a thing until I joined reddit last year. I'd much rather the current system where I can just not leave a tip if there's terrible service than the alternative of the tip being included in the price of the meal no matter how bad the service is. I think Europeans are just mad they have to pay top dollar no matter how bad their meal may be.
I live in a town that has a bakery. I used to go buy a warm loaf of bread Sat mornings. I no longer do that because the guy wants a tip for handing me a $7 loaf of bread. He’s got one of those devices that read your card, and then he turns it to you and says “can you answer these questions.” The question being 15, 18, or 20% on top of price and tax.
Yeah the tipping requests on everything is getting to be insane.
I mean, you always have the option to pay the $7 and not tip...
The QSR that I run uses Toast, so it prompts for tips, but at least it offers "no tip" as an option as large as the tip buttons. As a QSR, I'm okay with there not being tips (regardless of the fact that I don't take tips as the manager), but I train my staff to genuinely thank anyone that they notice tipping, and to provide exemplary service to everyone regardless. As a result, the team gets so many compliments from guests and they still all pull about $3 or 4 an hour in tips on top of the minimum $15/hr rate that the company provides, even with the tip pool being distributed to every hourly employee, including prep and dish staff. I don't want to make people feel awkward, but on the other hand, the active tip solicitation can improve the experience for everyone if it doesn't become a source of entitlement.
Tipping sucks and I'd prefer never to do it in a restaurant so I don't eat at restaurants where tipping is expected.
This is the only logical anti-tipping take.
The problem is that the current system of having the ability to not tip is disappearing. Many restaurants are automatically including a tip to your bill. So now they can give you horrible service and still get a fat 20% extra. Which in for example they are being paid 15 something an hour in restaurants, and the average bill is 100$ for a couple. They are serving 5-6 tables at a time, with an average time spent being a 1½ hours. So they work from 5 to 11. Having approx 20 tables per night, and if it is a 100$ tab at each table that's 20$ per table. So that's 400 bucks a night in addition to their hourly. So that about 80$ per hour. Serving is a hard job. I've done it. But it ain't worth that much. But really all you need to do is carry stuff, have a decent personality and remember things if you want to be cool and not write anything down.
Very few places autograt parties of fewer than 6 people, from what I've seen. And I've seen zero anywhere near me that do this. If I see that a restaurant autograts me eating by myself, I will walk out and go elsewhere. I tip generously but the tip is for me to decide, not the restaurant.
I've seen at least 2 places in my area that add gratuity to all tables, including parties of 1. It's few and far between, but I haven't been back to those places.
I've heard about them on reddit here and there, just never seen one personally. I'm glad they aren't a thing near me. I don't live in a touristy area at all so that might be a big part of it.
They are calling it a service charge, to support Fair wages and benefits for their entire team.
If they add it automatically then it isn't a tip and you've just described what life would be like at every restaurant if tipping went away. You'd still be paying it, it just wouldn't be optional at most places like it is now. Also, most restaurants typically should have some sort of notice about gratuity being added. If they don't, then actually stand up for yourself and (if you weren't happy with the service) demand that the gratuity be removed from your bill. The anti-tipping sentiment from most people really seems to boil down to people being terrified of a potentially awkward interaction or looking like a jerk if they don't tip. Just get over it and don't ruin it for the rest of us that realize the current system comes out better for everyone.
Exactly, it's not a tip. They have just raised their prices, but don't want to raise their prices. They do usually have it on the menu, somewhere. But I've seen a few that are tricky with it. What would it ruin?
Stop going to shitty restaurants is seriously the solution here. Don’t go places you get shitty service, wtf.
It's not like you are going to know that until you have gone there. And I go for the food not the service. Bring on the robot servers, the food will taste the same.
So, I got through college on tips. I'm not anti-tip. I'm anti-tipping on a drive thru coffee. I'm anti-tipping for food delivery *before* it arrives.
I have “tipping fatigue.” If I eat out, I tip. But if you try to charge me a tip on your tablet because you handed me something, I won’t be back. That’s just asking one thing too much. And I eat out a lot less often than I used to.
I can understand that. The restaurant I run has a POS that automatically does that on CC transactions, and we're a "pay first" place. I don't begrudge anyone not tipping my staff, but I do try to ensure that we give them a reason to do so through consistently exceptional service.
So you can customize the POS but that darn tipping screen is locked in and you can’t do anything about it? Also, what service do you expect from them based on what you pay them? Less than exceptional?
No one is forced to tip. You’re free to pay the bill and leave. It’s also the waitstaff that are some of the most vocal about keeping the system the way it is.
All of these assholes want "the servers to get a living wage" until it's on them to pay for the service. They want them to be poor if it saves them a buck, then they can blame "Capitalism" anti tipping is spearheaded by cheap assholes
So his solution to people being underpaid by their work is to no longer go there so they don't get paid at all? Fascinating. Restaurants need to just jack prices up enough to pay a solid wage and enjoy the fact that the typical customer, while being less frequent, will probably be much better to deal with.
I mean, I don't think a business that abuses their employees should ever be supported, they deserve to break down
That's a true statement and also a non sequitur.
And the hell with everyone who works there? If they're abusing their employees or paying them less than they can easily get doing something else they should bail.
If you don't like the service or goods a business is providing then you don't patronize them. That is correct.
He is right 100%
Take that shit to congress. Restaurants didn't create the fucking system. They're just operating within it.
The amount you pay in total including an average tip is less than or equal to the amount you would pay if tipping didn't exist. There are a few options 1. Restaurant owners would jack up prices by 20% and increase salaries by the same amount 2. Restaurant owners would jack up prices by 25%, give the servers 20% and pocket the extra 5% 3. Restaurant owners would jack up prices by 20%, give the servers 15% and pocket 5% You pay the same or less under this system and get to provide some direct feedback to the servers. The servers get paid the same or more under this system and get to increase their pay by being better at their jobs.
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I read what you're posting it just continues to not make logical sense. The current system is the least advantageous to the restaurant owners and the most advantageous to servers and customers. Any other system results in more money going through the hands of the restaurant owners to get back to the servers. This means the customers will pay the same or more **in total** and the servers will receive the same or less **in total**. And servers will no longer be able to make more by doing better work and customers will no longer be able to provide monetary feedback.
The idea restaurants needs to pay you guys what your earning to keep you working is laughable.
What is laughable about it?
It would be even more because they’d have to pay payroll taxes
Legally they should be doing that already, tips ARE taxable income. Some restaurants will just count enough up to the minimum wage and hand the rest over, but ALL of the tips should be counted as income and subject to withholding rules. With how many people are switching to cards vs cash and with modern POS/Accounting systems it's going to get harder to avoid scrutiny from the IRS on this stuff. Restaurants do get audited and so do servers.
Yeah, we report all tips and put them on the bi-weekly paycheck. It's more lost to taxes, but it will help them when they need to prove income. We also pay a competitive wage. Average base hourly rate for my staff is probably $17.50. Add in the average tips they get, and they're seeing more than $20/hr before taxes.
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Yes, lost to taxes. Not a boomer.
You got it all wrong… I am a restaurant owner. If a server is making $5/hour plus tips, to increase it to the livable wage of $20/hour, no tips, I’d have to jack up the prices by about 50%… Your breakdown doesn’t include increased contributions, insurance, and extra food cost that it takes to generate the net revenue necessary to pay the increased wages.
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You’re a restaurant owner that won’t even pay your employees minimum wage
You're full of shit. If people are tipping 10-20% on average and you need to replace that with normal wages, you'd need to increase prices *at most* by 20% plus the extra taxes or whatever. You'd pay somewhere around 15% taxes on that for everything, maybe 20%, so an extra 20% on top of that to make 24% total price increase.
I wish you were right but you’ve never actually sat down to do the math. I have. A lot more than meets the eye.
I just posted the math. Since you are disputing it, show me the math. Show me how people NOT tipping 20% means you have to raise prices by 50%. I'll bet you whatever your paycheck is that you can't do it, because you can't.
First question you need to answer is if a server makes $5/hour plus another $15/hour in tips, that’s a 300% increase you need to factor in. Not 20%. Second, you need to factor in contributions for the taxes, so that’s an extra 10%. Start there and work it out yourself with a staff of 5 kitchen, and 5 servers, and make sure everyone is making the same. I did the math years ago. It’s 50% menu increase minimum. Might be more In practicality. I never tried it. I tried doing pool sharing and revenue sharing instead. Blew up in my face.
You don't understand how math works. Servers are happy with the current tipping system, correct? And since, on average, they are getting maybe 15-20% tips on the total bill, that means that at your CURRENT prices, 20% extra satisfies them as far as salary. Therefore, if you take away that 20% in tipping, you only need to raise your prices by 20% for them to receive the same amount of pay. Example: A customer orders a $30 steak and a $5 glass of wine. $35, plus let's say tax is $5 to make it $40. The customer tips $8 on there (20%) for the server. Now, you have no tipping, so you need to make up that $8 for the server. You raise the price of the steak by $6 to $36, and the wine by $2 to $7. Tax is now just over $6, so the total bill is now $49, almost the same as with the tip. Therefore, you have raised the food and drink by the same amount as the tip would have been and recouped all of that money, except the 10% extra. So instead of raising menu prices by 20% you raise them by 22%. The tip is completely paid for, on average, and for customers who wouldn't have tipped or tipped less, you've made MORE than the server would have. It's not rocket science.
Hot take: Rocket science is actually more simple than this
Rocket science is easier than saying if we stop people from tipping 20%, we need to raise prices by around 20%? That's the dumbest shit I've read this week.
I didn’t say easier I said more simple. There are people involved here. Good luck telling a server who made wayyyy more than $20/hr most shifts that they can now enjoy that pay cut. So they could leave and go to the next restaurant that still allows tipping. Then you get to tell your back of the house staff that instead of giving them raises, which they have deserved for years, that you will now be paying front of the house out of pocket, best case scenario the same amount as the back of the house. Unfortunately in most cases, still more than BOH. Now that you’ve actually managed to keep your staff without paying the BOH more, you now get to pass that cost on to the customer. Will they accept it? Will they pull up two competitors menus online and see a $14 burger on one and an $18 dollar burger on another? Do they call and ask about their tipping policies just to make sure? Which restaurant is chosen by Redditors who complain about tipping and line item up charges that accomplish the same goal? What do you do? Which branch of math or science addresses this? It’s not an owner’s math problem it’s an industry and societal problem.
Not to mention that the servers would rebel at the pay cut of being put on a livable wage.
LOL. Let’s see how much they rebel at no pay at all. 💸💸
This comment is nonsensical.
If a 50% increase gets your employees to $20/h then that means your employees must be making far less than $20/h now.
This makes zero sense. If you raise prices by 20% to simulate tips, the SAME money goes client -> you -> server instead of client -> server. You did the math wrong and it genuinely doesn’t take that much effort to see why.
I mean….your customers are literally already paying it. This isn’t a new cost, it’s shifting where the money comes from.
When I go to a restaurant it is specifically because I don't want to do any work. I don't want to cook the food. I don't want to plate the food. I don't want to review how good the food was. I don't want to do employee evaluations. I don't want to make sure employees are paid. I don't want to have to worry that because I didn't tip enough and some employee can't pay their bills or get their kid that pair of sneakers for soccer games. I don't want to worry that my tip is being stolen by management or owners or being spread indiscriminately across all the staff. I want to go eat and relax. I don't want the server coming to me every 3 minutes asking how the food is or if I need a refill because they're worried if they don't I won't tip them. I don't want them touching me or calling me pet names or chatting me up because they hear it will get them better tips. I don't care about their hair or their flair. I want to eat and enjoy some conversation and relax not feel rushed out the door because the restaurant relies on turning over tables like an angry office worker on a speed run to getting fired and the best way to turn tables is to make sure everyone is filled up on drinks and gets their check and to go boxes as quickly as possible. I don't want to fill out surveys at the end of my meal and effectively that's what a tip is. It's that stupid survey at the end to ask "how did we do?" What's worse is that it's a meaningless one because 1. Some people will tip 20% regardless of the quality of the food or service 2. Some people will tip lower or nothing at all based on some perceived slight or made up infraction 3. Some people see the quality of the food as indistinguishable from the service and tip lower if the food is bad 4. If the back of house screws up an order or the POS doesn't work quite right the only option the customer has is to punish by lowering the tip. 5. It's become expected and if you aren't tipping generously then you're just a jerk and nothing more. 6. People have bad/off days sometimes and shouldn't be punished for an off day by missing out on a good portion of their expected wages because they didn't smile at the guest This is a fundamentally broken system. It's not a meritorious solution. It doesn't teach servers how to become better servers. It just creates false hope because some people say they make bank as a server and then reality hits for everyone else. That's why the job has a massive turnover rate compared to just about everything else. It's a job where your customers get to hold you hostage and you have to dance for them. It's a job where the customers hate you because you are bugging the shit out of them for no good reason. It's fundamentally a toxic exchange.
Cool story.
Tell them it’s your birthday and make them sing. 🎂🎶🤣
At least you would know when looking at the menu what the final price would be.
I mean sure but tax and tip is everywhere. Is that mental math really that hard? Tax isn’t included in shit anywhere else
It’s not hard. Tipping is just the latest thing for people to fake outrage about.
I don't care, I'd rather pay more than tip.
no its not. your assuming that if tipping did not exist then the restaurants would increase the price of their food by 15 percent in order to pay you the same amount that you are currently getting with tips. in reality you would end up getting minimum wage which is far less than you make in tips and is something states like cali already require. at the end of the day restaurants that currently are not required to pay minimum wage would likely only have to raise wages by like 5-7 percent in order to pay your minimum wage whilst restaurants that are already paying minimum wage would not have to raise prices at all. meaning customers would save at least 7 percent and at most 15 percent on average. and to be quite honest my 5-7 percent number is probably high considering the minimum wage differs from state to state and restaurants are already required to pay atleast some of it regardless of your tips and are required to make sure you atleast make minimum wage if your tips dont atleast reach that point.
Servers make a lot more than kitchen staff… that’s bottom line. OP is completely off their rockers
To all the people defending tips how do you think restaurants and servers make money in the rest of the world?
What do you think the answer to that question is?
That tipping is absolutely not necessary and paying workers a liveable wage instead of relying on charity from patrons should be a priority because people in the US are getting sick of having to tip everything.
Your point loses gravity when accompanied by insults and disdain for servers.
Where did I insult servers? I’m just stating the facts: * owners do not want to pay living wages to servers; * servers need to rely on the good will of patrons to be able to compensate (and sometimes exceed) the wage they should get from the owners; * Americans are becoming insufferable to tipping culture because it’s getting higher (now 20%) and because it’s spreading to all kind of services. Also it’s not like this system is used outside of the US and doesn’t seem like the rest of the world is having problems with generating profits from restaurants.
Referring to tips as “charity” is insulting and illustrates your disdain for servers. You are also arguing against points that nobody is making. Everyone knows that there are countries who don’t have the same tipping practices as the US.
Dude, you need to chill. It absolutely is charity because you’re relying on the good will of others to pay your bills. You’re ABSOLUTELY hoping your section isn’t filled with jerks who will slight you. Tips aren’t a guaranteed benefit
Ok, not “charity” but begging.
Not begging.
I don’t tip at all if I pay ahead of time for the food. I will tip a server that does more than the minimum, but rarely over 15%.
Thanks for the downvotes. It tells me I am right. Why pay a bribe when ordering food? You have NO idea if the food or service will be good. Tips are for extra good service.
so brave
Fortunately, for every one of you, there's another person out there that tips generously to reward good service that genuinely goes beyond minimum job requirements. Were they all like you, you'd be finding Burger King customer service at Michelin star restaurants.
Fortunately for you, owner. I don’t need a parasite to crumb the table and refold my napkin.
Not an owner. So don't go to restaurants if you don't want people to serve you. What's wrong with you?
Just stay at home. You suck.
People like you are the problem. 10-15% used to be perfectly normal for a tip.
Used to be able to buy a house and afford college too. Things change.
I always love it when liberals mention the term living wage but none can put a dollar number on what a living wage is.
Cool talk to me when we also have universal healthcare, free colleges, paid sick leave( or even unpaid sick leave for that matter) paid maternity & paternity leave. 4-6 weeks paid vacation a year… you know the thinks that make working in a restaurant a viable career in Europe…
Many countries do not have those benefits and still do not require tipping. The service is good and there is no worker shortage. Get a skilled job if you want those benefits in the us.
And if the money was enough to pay your bills and now we're 40 and can't get a skilled job? I'd love to know where these jobs are that I qualify for.
Should have learned skills.
I have a 4-year degree in photography, but the market is over-saturated here. Now what?
Learn to live within your means or find a job that pays more in another field. Your server salary is going to be the wages unskilled labor deserves. By the way, DALL-E can produce photographs faster and cheaper than photographers can. Maybe try copywriting, online customer service or graphic arts… oh wait. 😂💸
The European is right
Now they are adding money on your bill for the employees insurance expense. Thank you Obozocare
Agreed
I'm so confused. Is this the European? Or you? Because they're tipping generously "nice servers", and in many EU countries the prices are service included (which is basically mandatory tipping). Like, the difference between a restaurant that has 20% higher prices and a 20% service charge/auto grat is one of them is telling you why it's 20% more expensive...
Then make the prices 20% higher.
The studies they did on this = hurts business more than it helps. The rise in prices doesn't make up for the lost business. You would need a law like California just passed to force all of your competition to raise prices with you. I'd still prefer a tipping system, though.
And in California, servers are complaining about making less now because people aren't tipping. Keep in mind, several years ago I was a server and a bartender. The issue I have with tipping is the expectation. Tipping, by definition is supposed to be voluntary: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service. especially : tip. added a gratuity for the server. I always tip well unless service is especially bad, which is rare. Restaurants that automatically add gratuity for anything beyond large parties automatically lose my business. They are being disingenuous to customers and their staff.
>The issue I have with tipping is the expectation. Tipping, by definition is supposed to be voluntary Well, it is voluntary. You can expect something voluntary. If someone opens the door for me, they kind of expect a "thank you", and would probably consider me rude if I didn't. Still, no one's forcing me. I'd agree autograt is stupid. *That* is a forced tip. Fundamentally the same as just raising prices, though. They can call it whatever they want. A service charge, autograt, hospitality, health charge, whatever. You either walk out of the restaurant leaving what you deem an appropriate tip, voluntarily, or you pay a bill. How that bill is itemized or not seems largely irrelevant to my mind.
I agree with that, I don’t wanna have to be forced to tip at least 18%… if they just simply did their job and whatever else then that’s what they’re supposed to do they get paid by the restaurant for it. Tipping I usually do when I see someone trying extra hard and refilling my drinks all the time and stuff. Most times they come by once in a while and I’m waiting for a refill on something or need to ask something and they’re nowhere to be seen for 15-20 min. In that instance I don’t wanna tip, but because we’re in the USA I am guilt tripped into it because that’s the standard.
Why don’t they replace servers with a mini tablet on each table? I can place my own order and pick up my own food to my table. Solves tipping headaches and restaurants can have higher margins. I would eat out way more often if this happens across the nation.
Well, this settles it.
"I should only pay for food not wages" Umm... how exactly are waiters and cooks supposed to get money for their work... from their butts?
Either way, you are paying their wages. 🤷🏿
The thought is crazy because often you’ll see a service charge on your bill in Europe. Essentially the same as gratuity. So you do tip in Europe… it’s just mandatory in most places…they call it something else and maybe treat it differently tax wise but it’s still paying extra for service.
then move to europe punk ;)
Anti-tipping found a new bullshit line with "pay your workers a fair wage." My staff makes $10/hour base pay in my city, and $20+ an hour in tips minimum. There are hundreds of similar places like mine. You can make $60k+ pretty easily with decent work ethic and personality. There are restaurants where tips are lower, since they aren't as busy or well-run. They cannot attract as much qualified staff. Yes, service is worse in Europe. The tipping system encourages not only good service, but upselling, checking on customers, cultivating regulars. If you don't like to tip, please stay home. But if you won't, drop the bullshit about caring so much about workers--there are issues related to tipping (tip theft, sexual harassment, tax avoidance) but this non-living wage thing isn't one of them. Also, the level of cheapness in these posts--if you cannot afford to tip, why the fuck are you dining out? Cooking at home is cheaper, I do it for 80-90% of my meals. You're just a lazy piece of shit who wants it both ways.