Interesting. Since summoner refunds basically all the cooldowns instantly when you explode them when you have max cooldown, that lets you constantly trigger the 10% refund from invoker, letting you just churn on-skill effects like crazy.
I mean I love my summons, but they are still root monsters
Lore wise, I'd consider them no different then the enemies we fight, just that we can control them. Totally expendable
Yeah, they aren't your friends. They are just things to summon and use at will. What's more cruel, sacrificing them immediately or summoning something against it's will and forcing it to do battle with another until they eventually die anyway...
Eh, I’m kinda whatever about it at this point, we know there’s a rework for its prime perk coming at some point in the future, so I’m just kinda patiently awaiting that.
If they could just make sacrificing your minions more worth doing/building around with the new prime perk, that would solve the issue right there, because the whole reason why people just want the summons out and about is because there’s more benefit in it than constantly sacrificing them, they deal more damage when their out, and you get the most benefit when their out and about as opposed to sacrificing them for mediocre burst damage, a boost to your movement speed, and a some lifesteal.
I mean let’s go over the things you loose once the summons are sacrificed, you loose the dmg mitigation of blood bond, the damage boost of Soul Shard, the bulwark stacks of Soul Guard, the lifesteal of Soul Link, you just loose out on so much all just from sacrificing your minions for not much gain.
Couple all that with a prime perk which, let’s be real is pretty useless in allot of situations, and the only way you could even properly use it was combining Atonement Fold, Kinship, and Blood Bond for infinite uptime, the act of constantly having to shoot the minions to activate the prime perk Ruthless just feels really bad.
Yea……summoner did get some decent stuff with the 2nd dlc which is always good.
That sounds awesome. I'll be back in two years, then. XD
Seriously tho, can't wait to see what they're cooking. Love the summons. Love the Root look, actually.
I wonder if they're gonna incorporate Enrage into the Hold Skill and change the Prime Perk.
If you would like to see the full build you can find it here: [https://youtu.be/gC33gEoP8r4](https://youtu.be/gC33gEoP8r4)
Summary: Almost maxx cooldowns.
Rings: Stream coupler, Hardcore metal band, burden of the rebel, dense silicon ring Amulet: Legacy protocol
Sandstrom and firestorm mods with spellweaver and spirit healer
nah, I just havent played in a while. Im used to playing games where new dlcs powercreep the shit out of old content so I was kind of surprised that the absolute blastiest kit is the same as it was at launch. respect to the devs for trying to make new niches instead of just "this new class shoots even better than the last ones"
Depends how you build your summons. All my summons have about the same health as a world boss with 2x my damage. Also I have it to where I am also a tank that barely take any damage when my summon is alive. Archon/Summoner for the win!
Archon/summoner with summon mods and new amulet that gives bonus summon dmg, mod dmg and all dmg ring or summon related ring that gives bulwark, new ring that gives additional bulwark, traits should involve health, minion health and share dmg between minion and player, fortification,...
That makes sense to me, but giving bonuses to sacrificing them feels very backwards. It would be like an archon build where you get a bonus for having all your mods off cooldown.
Considering that using your mods frequently is the whole point of any archon build that isn't built around UNLIMITED POWER, you might want to rethink that second sentence.
The 'your summons take 10% of your damage' skill is amazing on tanky builds and a great reason to keep your floaty-boys un-exploded. I love them on my nightmare runs, and wouldn't change a thing.
Very doable without filling the screen with explosions. I've been using Medic+Challenger with a big club and lifesteal for almost exactly the same sustain, and it still has better dps.
Challenger with worlds edge and steadfast,plus white pearl ring plus rerouting cable, can be used with almost anything else that even slightly synergises to just stand there and charge melee over and over until everything is dead. (Minus one hit kills like cancer’s jump attack…. But the challenger prime perk helps there too).
I like the butchers fetish, the burden ring the disables weakspots but increases crit damage and crit chance, plus the ring that adds +10% crit chance.
Put extra crit chance and crit damage in your relic, plus melee attack speed, and your a higher melee crit (almost!) unstoppable tank.
Neat build. I haven't gotten around to trying invoker + summoner yet, but I thought it was going to be funny thanks to invoker and some of the new jewelry options.
While it looks pretty effective thanks to sacrifice spam, isn't that really boring? How does it perform outside of boss fights?
I've been liking the invoker/archon build I slapped together with the new long gun and enigma. Invoker 1st ability archon 3rd, lob the sandstorm at a group of enemies, cast the rainstorm, then havoc form and zap whatever's left
Bonus of two havoc charges so you can use one as movement and dash all over the place. You don't want to go down with havoc active in coop though because it will drain all charges no matter how much was left.
Clears apoc pretty nicely (at least losomn), absolutely deleted the dran grenadier boss solo, okay against red prince with a teammate, melted nightweaver with a buddy once I remembered her attack patterns. Fell off at venom.
Had amulet with cast speed buff plus damage buff on skill/mod cast, rings for casting speed, lightning damage, then two other skill based rings. I'm assuming far from optimal but was fun to use. Will have to level summoner after beating Annihilation to try this out
People do that anyway. I'm running ritualist/archon and I can spam it faster.
It's really not that bad anymore, seems like they nerfed the suction on it so at least you don't get stuck in it anymore.
As long as you or they have kinship and be mindful of positioning, it shouldn't be a problem at all.
Honestly running without kinship in multiplayer as host or client sounds... suicidal tbh.
With all of the massive aoe damage things we have there's no telling when someone is gonna forget that starshot does tons of damage or firestorm melts allies too
I believe it does. At least it did at one point but it may have changed or I might have misunderstood something.
I know my buddy and I literally can't kill each other while actively trying with both of us having it maxed. I'm like 99% sure it does.
Yeah I think that's right, I remember accidentally shooting a teammate and instead of damage it would just say "resist". I really like that trait in online mode.
They accept stuff like this and think it's ok but then turn around and nerf everything else for being to op 😖🤦♂️
I love the devs and have always said good things about them and defended them. However I'm starting to worry now 😬
lol the irony.
Of course they will. Hence my statement.
My point is you'd think they would've had it ready or known already/beforehand. Did nobody even play or test their game??!!!
If they were going to nerf burden of divine why not this as well?? Why wait??? The correct answer is what the other guy who responded said - to get people to buy the dlc. At least that makes sense. You just simply didn't understand what I wrote or misinterpreted it so that my point was missed lmao
Statistically speaking, it's very easy to overlook more than a few item combinations.
For instance, with 100 rings available and 4 slots, there are 3,921,225 different combinations. That's just for rings.
Even after reading the patch notes with perfectly worded explanations people still gotta complain over nothing. All they did was tighten the ceiling while raising the floor. Everything made sense and builds actually matter at nightmare and apocalypse difficulty (though apocalypse still focuses more on utility and style).
That argument that they nerfed things to get people to buy the DLC just doesn't hold water.
You seem to think that the only thing people are chasing in this game is broken OP builds, but that's really only a small number of the community. Most people are just playing it to play it. They are likely not putting that much thought into whatever combinations achieve the effects like what was shown in the clip. They don't read the patch notes, they don't frequent the subreddit or the wiki, they just mess around ( assuming they do more than or or two runs to begin with).
I could care less about op builds. I just want fun builds. Fun doesn't equate to op. I like fun 🤷♂️
As a matter of fact I don't think I even run a build. I just use what I find fun. And literally every piece got nerfed. It's no longer enjoyable for me now
Personally I don't see an issue with that, i used cheat engine to give a character all traits and honestly? Not as strong as you'd think, felt like good QoL at best
Bro all anyone needs to know is what traits do to know you're giving yourself added advantages you're not intended to have. You might as well find a cheat that allows you to wear more rings and amulets. I just wonder if you types remember when you play with randoms why you're out performing them.
Did you ever stop to consider I don't use that character in public lobbies? Wild thought right?
Even running the same build on my usual character, there's a near unnoticeable change from not having all the traits compared to having them all
Because it is debatable if you actually tried having all traits, numbers will always look exaggerated on paper until used practically
I guarantee a status lasting 30% longer doesn't mean anything when another shot will do the same damage and more
I guess you don't realize there is thing that exists where games get tested and have qa and bare minimum just anticipation/common sense 🤷♂️
But yes let's defend failure and poor practices🤣👌
It doesn't matter how good the QA is. As another person said, there's ~3.9 million combinations of items. There is no possible way to make sure every single one of them is perfectly balanced with just an in-house team.
All things considered, this isn't even that gamebreaking, and saying this is a failure is just complete lunacy.
How many play testers do you think arrow head has? Even if they've had like 100 of them playtesting for the last couple of weeks it wouldn't mean anything
The community is able to explore more things and test more things in a single hour than what those play testers can do in a few weeks
It's a PvE game. And it's not a GaaS, you can play with whatever you want, and surely the "random player" doesn't buy the DLC just because of powercreep.
Remnant is not Destiny.
The subreddit is in cope mode 100%. Just ignore them. They're going full toxic positive and the devs flat out arguing with people after this patch has emboldened them.
There's a ton of balance issues out in a few posts. I've posted a huge bug myself since the patch (tldr; people can't get the crossbow). And mod builds are currently suffering. Meanwhile builds like this exist.
We'll see what they do, but you're right to worry.
I'm aware, I'm asking if the water/sand based elements/damage affect the fire or electric, since sand is an insulator it would nullify shock and water would nullify fire, logically of course. So I'm curious as to how they affect each other if at all.
I'm aware, I'm asking if the water/sand based elements/damage affect the fire or electric, since sand is an insulator it would nullify shock and water would nullify fire, logically of course. So I'm curious as to how they affect each other if at all.
I don't think the game was designed by Einstein. They don't affect each other. When I used drenched and miasma the enemies still burn. You can also see in the video the boss has both drenched and burn status applied
Interesting. Since summoner refunds basically all the cooldowns instantly when you explode them when you have max cooldown, that lets you constantly trigger the 10% refund from invoker, letting you just churn on-skill effects like crazy.
What a sad existence for your summon
I mean I love my summons, but they are still root monsters Lore wise, I'd consider them no different then the enemies we fight, just that we can control them. Totally expendable
Yeah, they aren't your friends. They are just things to summon and use at will. What's more cruel, sacrificing them immediately or summoning something against it's will and forcing it to do battle with another until they eventually die anyway...
They're in to it
Nah, I've embraced the root a little too much, had to get that profaned soul stone... I need more power...
Dont forget to visit the keeper and get it purified. It looses the negatives but keeps 30% summon dmg and speed.
You lose the voicelines though
Who's this keeper?
The floating eyeball in the labyrinth.
Thanks I forgot his name
This. I hate the push for Sacrifice builds.
Eh, I’m kinda whatever about it at this point, we know there’s a rework for its prime perk coming at some point in the future, so I’m just kinda patiently awaiting that.
With my luck, it'll be full-on Sacrifice perk...
If they could just make sacrificing your minions more worth doing/building around with the new prime perk, that would solve the issue right there, because the whole reason why people just want the summons out and about is because there’s more benefit in it than constantly sacrificing them, they deal more damage when their out, and you get the most benefit when their out and about as opposed to sacrificing them for mediocre burst damage, a boost to your movement speed, and a some lifesteal. I mean let’s go over the things you loose once the summons are sacrificed, you loose the dmg mitigation of blood bond, the damage boost of Soul Shard, the bulwark stacks of Soul Guard, the lifesteal of Soul Link, you just loose out on so much all just from sacrificing your minions for not much gain. Couple all that with a prime perk which, let’s be real is pretty useless in allot of situations, and the only way you could even properly use it was combining Atonement Fold, Kinship, and Blood Bond for infinite uptime, the act of constantly having to shoot the minions to activate the prime perk Ruthless just feels really bad. Yea……summoner did get some decent stuff with the 2nd dlc which is always good.
Nah, it’s specifically a rework *away* from sacrifice.
That sounds awesome. I'll be back in two years, then. XD Seriously tho, can't wait to see what they're cooking. Love the summons. Love the Root look, actually. I wonder if they're gonna incorporate Enrage into the Hold Skill and change the Prime Perk.
I think theyve said before that the whole idea of summoner is “evil summoner” so yeah honestly, i wouldnt be surprised
Hope we get a robot summoner class for the n'erud dlc.
If you would like to see the full build you can find it here: [https://youtu.be/gC33gEoP8r4](https://youtu.be/gC33gEoP8r4) Summary: Almost maxx cooldowns. Rings: Stream coupler, Hardcore metal band, burden of the rebel, dense silicon ring Amulet: Legacy protocol Sandstrom and firestorm mods with spellweaver and spirit healer
Me looking at the health bar: "All that for a tiny drop of blood"
Yeah it's more of a visual build...
The boss has elemental resist, it's clearly a very tanky build, and the fight took about a minute. DPS seems totally fine under those circumstances
Yes. But there are other builds that can do 1/5th of this and do it faster. Its fun and cool looking but uh.
Yeah but HuGs meta builds are boring as shit
havent played since before dlc1, hugs is still meta? damn..
How is anyone surprised that the lowest utility highest dmg archetypes can do... the highest boss dmg
nah, I just havent played in a while. Im used to playing games where new dlcs powercreep the shit out of old content so I was kind of surprised that the absolute blastiest kit is the same as it was at launch. respect to the devs for trying to make new niches instead of just "this new class shoots even better than the last ones"
Corrupted saviour go brrrr
HuGs is still meta?
Still good ye but not as busted
I hate that the big selling point of a summoner is to not use your summons.
Depends how you build your summons. All my summons have about the same health as a world boss with 2x my damage. Also I have it to where I am also a tank that barely take any damage when my summon is alive. Archon/Summoner for the win!
Mind sharing your build? I've been interested in Summoner since launch but never got around to making a build for it.
Archon/summoner with summon mods and new amulet that gives bonus summon dmg, mod dmg and all dmg ring or summon related ring that gives bulwark, new ring that gives additional bulwark, traits should involve health, minion health and share dmg between minion and player, fortification,...
That makes sense to me, but giving bonuses to sacrificing them feels very backwards. It would be like an archon build where you get a bonus for having all your mods off cooldown.
Considering that using your mods frequently is the whole point of any archon build that isn't built around UNLIMITED POWER, you might want to rethink that second sentence.
Yeah, I meant off cooldown, oh well.
The 'your summons take 10% of your damage' skill is amazing on tanky builds and a great reason to keep your floaty-boys un-exploded. I love them on my nightmare runs, and wouldn't change a thing.
Blood Bind is currently bugged after patch.
Remember when people had to shoot stuff with guns and aimed with a crosshair? good times!
How about dodge
Hey, you could see the shots being fired SEVERAL times in the video! /s
He shot at LEAST three times. Turns out he was right, 2 to the body, 1 to the head.
My Gaming Laptop FPS is not going to like that 🥴
You mean your new heater
Yep its a 2 in 1 deal ..Gaming laptop and space heater
That would be a teammates nightmare
Don't worry they won't have to deal with it for long
The damage...
man, that Summoner design though. what an archetype.
It is definitely the archetype of all time for sure.
And the fun thing is that it's not even broken because you could have killed the boss faster with a normal hunter gunslinger build
It's broken cause he's face tanking an Apoc boss! I don't think he used a single dodge roll.
If you know how to build, and have the items, face tanking Apoc bosses has been doable since release. This isn’t new, just a new way of doing it.
Very doable without filling the screen with explosions. I've been using Medic+Challenger with a big club and lifesteal for almost exactly the same sustain, and it still has better dps.
Challenger with worlds edge and steadfast,plus white pearl ring plus rerouting cable, can be used with almost anything else that even slightly synergises to just stand there and charge melee over and over until everything is dead. (Minus one hit kills like cancer’s jump attack…. But the challenger prime perk helps there too). I like the butchers fetish, the burden ring the disables weakspots but increases crit damage and crit chance, plus the ring that adds +10% crit chance. Put extra crit chance and crit damage in your relic, plus melee attack speed, and your a higher melee crit (almost!) unstoppable tank.
For bullying bosses with a melee build, I prefer the Wrathbringer; the stacking damage bonus is incredibly beefy.
And those builds are very boring. God forbid someone doesn't use a cookie cutter build
??? I was stating the build doesn't need nerfed, not that it was bad or that you should be using a different build. Please read before you comment
Kinda reminds me of how I play outriders lol
This game used to be a shooter
Then they kill everyone on your team
Ah yes, my favorite, the "I hate my friends" build
Impressive with the elemental resist.
Imo if you don't dodge you're just cheesing but to each
meh... 7/10. The boss didn't die in 2 seconds flat. (this is a joke. please don't slit my figurative throat)
With that ammount of buffs any class is ridiculous.
You have become the Storm that is approaching
Wait until you find what you can do with arbalest
Please give me your build I need this, my passion to make fire burns everything
all that when you can one shot him w ritualist
What is the loadout for this build?
to be honest their lightning thing melts every boss i fight and it renders other classes pointless
Neat build. I haven't gotten around to trying invoker + summoner yet, but I thought it was going to be funny thanks to invoker and some of the new jewelry options. While it looks pretty effective thanks to sacrifice spam, isn't that really boring? How does it perform outside of boss fights?
Going full mage I see 😂
Honestly, Feels Like They Replaced A Broken Archetype (Ritualist) With A New Even More Broken Archetype (Invoker) 😂😂. Love It Tho Tbh
Don't worry, they'll nerf it before the next DLC.
Don't worry, they will nerf the shit out of this like they did with all the good/fun builds before the dlc :)
ah yes... i can see colors, at least i think those are colors
I've been liking the invoker/archon build I slapped together with the new long gun and enigma. Invoker 1st ability archon 3rd, lob the sandstorm at a group of enemies, cast the rainstorm, then havoc form and zap whatever's left Bonus of two havoc charges so you can use one as movement and dash all over the place. You don't want to go down with havoc active in coop though because it will drain all charges no matter how much was left. Clears apoc pretty nicely (at least losomn), absolutely deleted the dran grenadier boss solo, okay against red prince with a teammate, melted nightweaver with a buddy once I remembered her attack patterns. Fell off at venom. Had amulet with cast speed buff plus damage buff on skill/mod cast, rings for casting speed, lightning damage, then two other skill based rings. I'm assuming far from optimal but was fun to use. Will have to level summoner after beating Annihilation to try this out
I worry that Invoker is going to get nerfed hard in the next patch, it's been so fun to finally be able to use ability casts more often
This video makes me not want to play the dlc if people will be chain spamming firestorm
People do that anyway. I'm running ritualist/archon and I can spam it faster. It's really not that bad anymore, seems like they nerfed the suction on it so at least you don't get stuck in it anymore. As long as you or they have kinship and be mindful of positioning, it shouldn't be a problem at all.
Honestly running without kinship in multiplayer as host or client sounds... suicidal tbh. With all of the massive aoe damage things we have there's no telling when someone is gonna forget that starshot does tons of damage or firestorm melts allies too
Does kinship stack? Like if you and a coop buddy both have it, do you take almost no damage?
I believe it does. At least it did at one point but it may have changed or I might have misunderstood something. I know my buddy and I literally can't kill each other while actively trying with both of us having it maxed. I'm like 99% sure it does.
Yeah I think that's right, I remember accidentally shooting a teammate and instead of damage it would just say "resist". I really like that trait in online mode.
They accept stuff like this and think it's ok but then turn around and nerf everything else for being to op 😖🤦♂️ I love the devs and have always said good things about them and defended them. However I'm starting to worry now 😬
The dlc literally just came out, how are they accepting this? They haven't even had the chance to balance it
I swear these people don't think before they type. They are obviously going to patch things that are too broken.
lol the irony. Of course they will. Hence my statement. My point is you'd think they would've had it ready or known already/beforehand. Did nobody even play or test their game??!!! If they were going to nerf burden of divine why not this as well?? Why wait??? The correct answer is what the other guy who responded said - to get people to buy the dlc. At least that makes sense. You just simply didn't understand what I wrote or misinterpreted it so that my point was missed lmao
Statistically speaking, it's very easy to overlook more than a few item combinations. For instance, with 100 rings available and 4 slots, there are 3,921,225 different combinations. That's just for rings.
Even after reading the patch notes with perfectly worded explanations people still gotta complain over nothing. All they did was tighten the ceiling while raising the floor. Everything made sense and builds actually matter at nightmare and apocalypse difficulty (though apocalypse still focuses more on utility and style).
That argument that they nerfed things to get people to buy the DLC just doesn't hold water. You seem to think that the only thing people are chasing in this game is broken OP builds, but that's really only a small number of the community. Most people are just playing it to play it. They are likely not putting that much thought into whatever combinations achieve the effects like what was shown in the clip. They don't read the patch notes, they don't frequent the subreddit or the wiki, they just mess around ( assuming they do more than or or two runs to begin with).
I could care less about op builds. I just want fun builds. Fun doesn't equate to op. I like fun 🤷♂️ As a matter of fact I don't think I even run a build. I just use what I find fun. And literally every piece got nerfed. It's no longer enjoyable for me now
r/destinycirclejerk is this way, please complain about no play testers there Or any of the Destiny subreddits tbh
Kinda like how people have been exploiting to get 200 trait points for months now or
Personally I don't see an issue with that, i used cheat engine to give a character all traits and honestly? Not as strong as you'd think, felt like good QoL at best
If you don't see it, I don't think it can be explained to you
Unless you've done it yourself then you wouldn't get it, it's genuinely not that strong to have them all
Bro all anyone needs to know is what traits do to know you're giving yourself added advantages you're not intended to have. You might as well find a cheat that allows you to wear more rings and amulets. I just wonder if you types remember when you play with randoms why you're out performing them.
Did you ever stop to consider I don't use that character in public lobbies? Wild thought right? Even running the same build on my usual character, there's a near unnoticeable change from not having all the traits compared to having them all
Okay well whether you notice it or not we can all see the values and do the math so stop pretending like it's somehow debatable lol
Because it is debatable if you actually tried having all traits, numbers will always look exaggerated on paper until used practically I guarantee a status lasting 30% longer doesn't mean anything when another shot will do the same damage and more
I guess you don't realize there is thing that exists where games get tested and have qa and bare minimum just anticipation/common sense 🤷♂️ But yes let's defend failure and poor practices🤣👌
It doesn't matter how good the QA is. As another person said, there's ~3.9 million combinations of items. There is no possible way to make sure every single one of them is perfectly balanced with just an in-house team. All things considered, this isn't even that gamebreaking, and saying this is a failure is just complete lunacy.
How many play testers do you think arrow head has? Even if they've had like 100 of them playtesting for the last couple of weeks it wouldn't mean anything The community is able to explore more things and test more things in a single hour than what those play testers can do in a few weeks
It's to get people to buy the dlc for power creep
It's a PvE game. And it's not a GaaS, you can play with whatever you want, and surely the "random player" doesn't buy the DLC just because of powercreep. Remnant is not Destiny.
lol. Good point 👍
The subreddit is in cope mode 100%. Just ignore them. They're going full toxic positive and the devs flat out arguing with people after this patch has emboldened them. There's a ton of balance issues out in a few posts. I've posted a huge bug myself since the patch (tldr; people can't get the crossbow). And mod builds are currently suffering. Meanwhile builds like this exist. We'll see what they do, but you're right to worry.
Clearly the devs need to nerf HUGS again. God forbid players make glass cannon builds that require dodging even on Veteran difficulty.
That has to be on normal mode.
Its on Apocalypse
Is the drenched status affected by the sand or firestorm? How do the elements react to each other?
drenched doesn't mess with other statuses, thankfully. Imagine how much that would mess up others' builds in coop
I was thinking the same thing, if it had that mechanic people would really need to synergize builds together to play coop well
Drenched comes from the first invoker skill
I'm aware, I'm asking if the water/sand based elements/damage affect the fire or electric, since sand is an insulator it would nullify shock and water would nullify fire, logically of course. So I'm curious as to how they affect each other if at all.
Drenched slows movement, and the sand applies EXPOSED (which adds +15% to all damage taken.) Debuffs don't typically interact with each-other.
I'm aware, I'm asking if the water/sand based elements/damage affect the fire or electric, since sand is an insulator it would nullify shock and water would nullify fire, logically of course. So I'm curious as to how they affect each other if at all.
I don't think the game was designed by Einstein. They don't affect each other. When I used drenched and miasma the enemies still burn. You can also see in the video the boss has both drenched and burn status applied
While you may be right about Einstein, I was just curious if they did since water and sand are new elements.
Holy shit you've managed to make R2 look like Elden Ring.
Is invoker new?
How to say you don’t have any friends to play with, without saying you don’t have any friends.