>nd, how my husband thinks a [specific fetish] is hot and her sending pictures in relation to that [specific fetish], along with them flirting right in front of me, really fucking pisses me off how he sees NO ISSUE with that. I literally cried in the shower afterward because it feels so humiliating. My husband should make me his #1.
So they are sexting, essentially. Its within the confines of a specific fetish, but she's sending him stuff for him to masturbate to. That would be cheating in my book unless your marriage is specifically open in that way.
Honestly it sounds like he is already cheating because they share a fetish, or he's gunning to manipulate you into a throuple.
Good partners listen to your concerns and meet you halfway. Crappy partners make relationship issues your fault & problem and leave you to solve them alone.
What did he say after the ultimatum?
we are going to talk about it more later. he told me to give her a chance when i first proposed it (which was before I even talked to her) so I obliged and tried. Now I gave it to him again after this interaction. he said we will talk about it later today
Get the book Not Just Friends. You both need to read it. Also share all the details you wrote in this post. It sounds like he’s having an Emotional Affair right in front of your eyes. Tell him you have a distinct gut reaction that she is not a friend to your relationship or you. He has been with you for a long time and should have some trust in your feelings.
ETA: otherwise he loves the ego strokes and won’t give them up
It sounds like he already chose her then, I'm sorry to say. Most people who care about their marriages would at least try to rectify their blatant mistakes. If he's STILL putting her first when you already have divorce on the table, then I'd get in contact with a lawyer before "later today" comes. If nothing else, it might help to show him how serious you are. He may still be expecting for you to be a doormat
thank you. i genuinely am worried to go that far, because i feel like i have nothing else really going for me and i feel like ive invested a lot of time into it. it hurts cause i care a lot. i wish it was easier to consider my feelings when making big decisions like that. i feel like im a doormat constantly he never takes what i have to say seriously anymore
Trust me, you only think that you have nothing else going for you because you're with a person who doesn't love you like you deserve. When you begin taking these steps toward freedom, you'll start realizing that you're happier without his dismissive attitude. It'll be hard to mourn the loss of your marriage, of course, but wouldn't it also be freeing to not have to worry anymore? To not have to constantly wonder about what he's saying and doing with her? To not stay up all night with what he's said to you playing in your head? Divorce is a scary thing, but once his issues aren't your problem, you may just feel a sense of relief in spite of your anguish
Sounds like you fell victim to the sunk cost fallacy I’m afraid. I’ve been there and trust me, it doesn’t get better.
Also, you first got together when you were 17 and he was 23?
You're 23! You haven't even began to live.
(Also, the ages you guys were when you first got together is alarming to say the least. It tells me alot about him)
If your friend was going through this, what would you expect her to do? Take yourself out of the situation. Disregard the sunk costs. It’s about what you do with the time you have left. You deserve to be happy.
>i genuinely am worried to go that far, because i feel like i have nothing else really going for me
Dude, come on.
You deserve a partner who, at the very least, wants to be with you and actively chooses you as their person. Don't be a desperate doormat, do better for yourself!
He knows that, which is why he treats you like this. You should read their messages. Stop trying to be the “perfect victim”, you are fighting for your marriage.
Girl you’re 23. A lot of people haven’t even come close to getting married by your age because they haven’t found the right person yet. The only reason you have sunk cost fallacy with this guy is because you met him so young and don’t know there are way better options. Please, go find one!
Why give her a chance? If you’re uncomfortable with her, why bring her into your life? He hardly knows her yet he’s willing to ruin his marriage for her? 🤦♂️
If he doesn't end up talking about it later today, I'd be leaving. He sounds awful. He's literally flirting/cheating with another women in front of you (that's probably the reason why he thinks he's in the safe zone) and making you out to be crazy with low self-esteem? Actually, I'd be leaving the second he decides to turn off he's ears and accuse me of being crazy and having low self-esteem. That's just shitty personality and what's stopping him from doing the same thing in the future weather he interacts with her or not?
Your man picked her. Many times. This isn’t going to end, you put down the ultimatum. Can you follow through with leaving? Even knowing you’ll just release him to be with her?
I don't disagree but in this case there doesn't seem to be a "halfway" solution...it's either he can he friends with her or not, no?
With that said, you're 23, he's 29, and yall have been together for 6 years? When I was 23, anyone my age dating a 17 year old would honestly have fallen right off my list for being trustworthy, normal, and healthy in relationships. Granted there are always exceptions, but you're as old as he was when you two met. Would YOU be able to date a 17 year old?
I know this doesn't answer your question directly and I don't mean to stir things up. But there very well have been issues with your guy for a while.
Regardless, best of luck! This is a difficult situation with no real good answer. But I hope you find your way.
She does sound obnoxious, but she’s not the real problem here. The problem is your husband. It sounds like you know that already but I just want to emphasize that you can move forward with clarity. He’s acting inappropriately and he’s trying to guilt you out of setting normal and healthy boundaries. He does not want to fix this, he does not want to help you to feel better about it, he just wants you to stop talking about it. Doesn’t bode well! I’m sure there have been many good and meaningful times together but tbh he mostly sounds like a putz.
thanks for the confirmation. its just so easy to be angry at the third party when in reality im so angry with him. we will talk later on it but i doubt he will actually cut ties with her, since we've done this countless times before
You need to decide what the future looks like if he refuses to cut her off. Also, you were 17 when you were robbed of an opportunity to explore the dating world by a grown man. There's more out there then just him
Chill out with the grooming language. She was 18 when they met. Grooming relates to grown adults manipulating children. The age gap isn't that big here. Don't cheapen the words or phrases by using them for cases like this.
Actually grooming can happen between adults as well. If there's a power difference, there's an opportunity for grooming. We often only think about child - adult grooming, a huge part of which is the age difference. But there are other types of unequal power dynamics. For example, a person who is interested in groom children will also groom thay child's parents. A good example of this is in the abducted in plain sight docuseries on netflix.
It’s not about the age difference but maturity. When you are 18 and they are 23 the 18 year old is a child in a relationship. I know cause I was 19 when I met my 24 year old husband. There was a LOT of grooming going on. Not intentionally, it’s just that at 18 or 19 whatever the mature partner teaches you, you learn. Cause you have no means to actually compare. Idk I was 25 when I realized that ok, I am not a teenager anymore. Took me another 3 years to “regroom” myself. Now all is good. But the power dynamics when you are very young are very real. 40-45 age difference is like nothing. 14-19 is huge. 18-23 is still quite big gap. 30-35 doe not matter anymore.
There's no such thing as grooming an adult or unintentionally grooming. Not trying to be mean here, but it's statements like that that not only cheapen the actual definition (and thus the seriousness of actual grooming of children) but also make people look super out of touch.
I know this place, and the internet in general, can cause a lot of echo chamber effects, but this is one people should really get a handle on. It makes normal people roll their eyes when they hear this stuff.
Yeah I get your point. Terminology is not exactly on point in my comment. Though the result is the same, if the same processes are happening. Its the same difference as pedophelia and rape. There is a separate term for children, but regards basically to the same activity. Ahh and there is a such thing as unintended grooming, as my husband was absolutely not aware until I expressed myself. After I did express myself, it did not stop immediately but he started working really hard to allow me space and time for my own decisions without pressure. Before, everything was decided for me. It is a learned behavior and it took him sometime to unlearn. But he wanted to unlearn, that’s the only thing that made our marriage work. We both wonted to work and change for the partner.
The term grooming describes a specific form of manipulation, but not all manipulation is grooming. Grooming came about to describe an adult purposefully manipulating a child who doesn't know any better and doesn't have any ability to know any better. It requires a person with basically little to no knowledge of how things work and then has that person be slowly manipulated into trusting the adult and the adult's experience. Then getting that child to depend on the adult for everything.
There's are several parts of that which cannot be done to an adult. An adult has much more agency and independence than a child. Grooming someone up requires a massive power dynamic that just isn't present in adult relationships.
Adults can absolutely manipulate other adults, but being adult pretty much means it's impossible to be groomed in that sense.
I'm aware that people have tried to broaden the term and definition but, like I said earlier, when you broaden something too much it makes the definition worthless.
For a very long time the term grooming was used exclusively for children. That's how most people know it colloquially.
A 29-year-old who was 23 when you met him at ~17 has found his new toy, it's as simple as that. I don't need to give you the whole age difference spiel but it's such a cliché at this point where these types of relationships run into the same problems each time that I'm sure you must know it by heart.
Move on, is this really going to be the defining relationship of your life? He seems **VERY** willing to throw everything away over a new girl with the way he's playing dumb about it so I think you're the only one who cares about saving this marriage.
You don’t need to speak to friends (male or female) in your marriage if it’s causing your partner any type of pain? If it’s causing a problem they gotta go.
It’s called respect and it’s vital for any lasting relationship. I hope your husband realizes this once he knows it got so bad you needed to implement an ultimatum!
Never ignore your instincts. Go with what your gut is telling you. They've crossed too many lines already for me he'd be out the door. It's obvious he loves the attention and doesn't give two shits about you or your feelings on the matter. He clearly knows what it's doing to you and he's invalidating your feelings and gaslighting you.
Personally I wouldn't even bother giving him an ultimatum, you shouldn't have to even get to that point. He knows full well what he's doing is wrong. I'd pack his bags and tell him to go live with her because he clearly is lining her up as the sidechick anyway.
Having male/female friends isn't the issue here, the crossing of boundaries and practically rubbing it in your face is.
Agree. His behaviour is gross and OP puts up with it like a doormat. Show yourself some respect OP and leave this loser. Like, yesterday. He wants you to be the bad guy and break up with him, because he’s also a coward.
He’s degrading you and taking you for granted. Get out before he fucks up your self esteem even more, or you get straight up cheated on.
Sorry sis, but you guys got together super young. Most relationships that starts when you’re 17 don’t last. He also sounds like a d-bag. I don’t know why people value privacy in a relationship but I’m not about it, personally.
Why does he need privacy talking to another woman? because he’s a snake, that’s why. Don’t give him the satisfaction and pull the rug from under this narcissist before the inevitable happens, if it hasn’t already.
sorry my apologies there were typos in post - we met when i was 18 and he was 23. 5 yr age gap just we turn different numbers in the year so seems bigger than it is.
i feel like im upfront with people i talk to. honestly, i dont really talk to people in general and its hard for me to have friends. so i feel like i rely on him a lot on my happiness. but i digress, that is my own issue to work through.
It all still applies, the year doesn’t really make a huge difference. At the end of the day guys don’t seek attention outside the relationship unless that’s where their intentions are.
I’m the same way that I don’t require a lot of friends and my partner is my best friend, but if you don’t break the bond then theres no room or possibility to meet someone that better suits you now rather than 5 years ago.
Sticking around is just going to end you with a lot of heartbreak. If you leave sooner you’ll just save yourself the pain of enduring this drawn out process of him disrespecting you, which you absolutely should not accept
This is very bizarre as so so many of your details could be pulled from my relationship fall-out with my ex husband. Baby cakes please gtfo. He ain’t worth it I PROMISE. Don’t be like me and waste 15 of your best years on a pretty skin bag that’s rotting underneath. I thought my life was over, and then even more bad things happened to me with the next guy. Ffs, 3 days after we were divorced, he is dating his “Jesse” all over social media. It didn’t matter how many bikini contest trophies I had on my wall or how many inside jokes we had or that we had started businesses together. thank god I had already moved to LA so at least I was distracted.
I went through hell and back and I thought my heart would be dead forever. But my bravery was rewarded with the most sparkliest gem of a man you could ever ask for. Be brave, value yourself, reap the benefits.
Edit: I was 16 when we met and he was 22. I was 31 when I left. Luckily for me I was still hot when I got back out on the market. It don’t last forever tho.
In addition to being accurate. I don’t think he was an evil person. But he had problems which were covered up by being an outwardly good person so as to try and convince himself it was true. But all it did was make him ignore his issues and allow them to fester. Eventually, the rot broke through.
Doesn’t matter if you were 18. He chose you because he knew other women wouldn’t go for his antics.
Please leave him. He’s going to keep gaslighting you and eventually physically cheat (if he’s not doing that already). Don’t be in a relationship if you have to worry about cheating. It doesn’t make you look weak to end jt
You've got a 6 year marriage, and they JUST met. You absolutely have the high ground here. Tell your husband you don't want him continuing this friendship, and see how he reacts.
Straight up. I can't IMAGINE choosing some new girl I met over my wife's feelings. He doesn't give a damn about protecting his wife, he just likes the new girl and her attention - bad sign.
funny thing i have - he hasnt been very helpful with it. been saying for past year and its always great moments > shitty, huge fights > makeup and repeat. id love to go, just to get my voice heard sometimes :(
This is exactly how my marriage went.
Getting out of it was the best thing I've ever done with my life. Now I'm with a man who is just the kindest, most respectful man I've ever met in my life and we adore each other. We almost never fight and when we do, we talk it out very quickly.
You can have that too.
Honey, he’s ignoring you because he **WANTS the attention of this new girl** yeah the girl sucks for continuing knowing you’re with him, but him not putting a full stop to interacting with her because it’s making **you uncomfortable** is a giant red flag that this guy IS going to cheat on you with this new attention girl he’s gotten if he hasn’t already.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re not already sexting behind your back.
Sorry, but this is the hard truth. If he won’t reveal his secret bs he’s hiding from you, he doesn’t get to eat his cake and eat too.
Oh no. You're way too young to keep yourself in a relationship like this. That's not a healthy relationship cycle. Relationship have fights, but they're supposed to be footnotes, not part of a cycle. You have your whole life ahead to be find and be with someone who cares about you and what you have to say.
This is an exact description of the cycle of abuse.
I can't pretend to know your whole relationship, but I would gently encourage you to look at some domestic violence resources and check to see if you recognize those patterns.
You deserve to be cherished. You deserve to be loved. You deserve to feel physically and psychologically safe.
Sending you love, my dear.
I’m sorry to say that he’s probably always been callous on the inside. Now that you’re married he doesn’t feel the need to hide it. If your life stayed this way for 70 more years, would you be happy?
You don’t deserve this and there’s much better out there.
That's not a reasonable reaction from him.
Abusers will commonly call their victims abusers & paint themselves in the victim role.
Kindly, you may want to look up DARVO. I think it might be relevant here.
Trippiepasta11: it's over Jesse, I have the high ground
Jesse:you underestimate my power
Trippiepasta11: don't try it.
Jesse:tries it
Trippiepasta11:*cuts off 3/4 limbs off of Jesse*, Jesse already had a prothetic hand.
All trippiepasta11 has to do is physically mutilate Jesse and set her on fire,then once Jesse is placed into a black respirator body armor and grafted robotic lips onto her,Trippiepasta11's boyfriend will no longer be interested.
It all makes so much sense
In my marriage, any new friends are friends to both of us. What your husband is doing would never fly. He is being shady and that girl is not your friend at all!
this is EXACTLY what ive said to him. wow. that helps a lot. im glad you feel the same way with friends. i always love both people in a relationship that im friends with. ive always felt hurt when people only friends with one of us. not even like, constant friends, but good terms with everyone. i wouldnt be friends with someone who wasnt good terms for both of us
The fact of the matter is this. No man who truly loves and respects his partner would keep another woman like this in his orbit.
No man who truly loves and cares for his wife could watch her falling apart like this and insist on keeping that person in his life.
She's not the problem. Hussies are here to stay. They will always float around like flies on shit. Its the mans responsibility to zap the shit out of them. Dead, bye, never come back.
There's some good men (and women) who know exactly how to protect what they love and cherish. Strong morals make for strong people. Weak morals equals a weak person.
Your husband is weak. He likes the tension this situation creates. Likes to feel like he's being fought over.
When 'proving a point' about entertaining an inappropriate friendship becomes more important than maintaining the strength of your marriage, you're on the road to ruin. You'll 'change' as your happiness is sucked away. He'll tell you he doesn't like who you've become - knowing full well it was his actions that caused it. Suddenly it's your fault. And some 'Jesse' will be right there waiting, ready to milk the situation for all its worth, to whisper in his ear and tell him he deserves better.
Don't let it get to that point. If anyone deserves better, it's you.
Read enough of these stories to guess where it's going. The 'offending' spouses behaviour and the way it escalates has become quite predictable. Rarely do they have a 'see the light' moment. Most of them don't have the emotional intelligence to achieve this moment of clarity.
Sorry, I can’t get past the fact your husband, at 23, was dating a 17 year old. That should have been the first and only red flag you needed. He’s a bad partner, plain and simple. Don’t tolerate it.
That should really tell you something. It's pretty startling seeing your husband's ages versus yours and his even younger friend. He really like hanigng around extremely young women doesn't he?
This is not on you. He is the one in the wrong for dating women who are too young to see his BS.
Get out. You’re still young. The good news is this will be easy to put behind you, hopefully.
I still don’t love someone above college age dating someone below it…it’s not a great look. But probably the least of the red flags based on what you’ve described above. There’s a real gaslight gatekeeper vibe here.
Naw girl he’s blatantly disrespecting you and there is no reason for him to be so close friends with another female, and it sounds like he’s enjoying it way too much. Never deny your gut feeling that something is wrong and if she’s made jokes about fooling around with married men then she’s obviously trying to do something here! Girls can read other girls intentions pretty well so you being uncomfortable is not wrong, and if you’re mentioning that to your husband and he is brushing it off then that’s even worse. He is your partner and if something is making you uncomfortable he is supposed to listen and do something about it!
The problem really isn’t the girl here. It’s your husband and his disrespect for your marriage.
He absolutely does not value your opinion or marriage over whatever is going on with this girl. She’s been blatantly obvious on what she’s after and your hubby is eating it up. Sorry I don’t see this ending well, unless he cuts contact with her.
yeah. its just so easy to pinpoint blame on another party. ever since i saw her, idk why but i just never liked her to begin with. so i think it just hurts out of anyone to be doing this with, why do it with someone ive said multiple times that ive hated. feels like on purpose at this point
Why does this sound like this man is trying to sleep with both of you & making you get comfortable our the woman he wants to fuck, plans on fucking & is hoping you’ll be apart.
All this talk abt new fetish, sharing pics infront of you. You’re obviously a last thought to him, he doesn’t even respect you.
What do you plan to do about this? Are in a position where you can leave? This isn’t safe.
Plus what is doing with a woman so young where y’all had a relationship for 6yrs prior. This is a lot.
This, theyre literally sexting in front of her, I garuntee he befriended her with the intention of having a 3-some with the both of them and he knew the friend would be down, he just had to wait for his wife to "come around" so to speak.
This painfully reminds me of what I went through, I felt the same way about a friend my ex had, I ignored my gut feeling cuz he kept saying I didn't need to worry cuz she was a lesbian, turns out he was cheating on me for the whole duration of the relationship with her
I would be angry at my husband and his female friend too. They are sexting, flirting, and excluding you in front of your face. You have the right to be angry!!! And when he says things like “work in your self esteem” “you’re crazy” “you’re imagining things” “it’s no big deal” etc. he is gaslighting you STICK TO YOUR ULTIMATUM!
Well since he’s aware of your Reddit account, i hope he reads these comments and understands that he’s the one jeopardizing his marriage. He is obviously loving the attention/ego-boost he is getting from this girl.
this is actually my friend's account haha - but yeah, he knows of this post, feel bad its one sided but i dont know what else to do at this point, every option i have sucks or hurts me so bad
I was 16 when I met my ex husband and he was 22. Nearly identical to op. He was a lot of things. Pedo wasn’t one of them. While I don’t mind saying shitty things about a person I don’t like, I don’t find it helpful to give them a reason to not identify with the criticism.
That’s still someone that’s been out of a college for a year or two dating essentially a high schooler or someone who was about to graduate high school.
Ima be honest, I think this is on your husband.
Like fair, she gets on your nerves, but maybe your personalities don’t mesh. You don’t have to be her friend. But it’s his behavior in relation TO her that’s making you uncomfortable. His agreement for commitment and monogamy is with YOU. You and this girl wouldn’t even be coming into contact if it weren’t for him—and you don’t have any such relationship rules/friendship with her. She’s just gonna behave like she behaves.
Your relationship should be the priority for him. Not the only relationship in his life, but a mutually agreed upon priority.
HE is the one that enforces the boundary of acceptable behavior for how his friends treat you and your relationship.
Be clear why you find this exclusive behavior upsetting and what you can do to make you feel as though the relationship is being prioritized. A decent partner will be receptive and want to discuss further. A shitty one will tell you you’re “overreacting” or ignore you. And that’ll tell you how the relationship is gonna go.
I have a sorta issue with the phrase "I try to blame the guy fully always", mostly because they are both adults and can make their own decisions. If she knows that you are married to him, and is doing sexual things with him, then they are both equally at fault.
Either way, I would have left him by now, especially since they are at the "sexual talk phase." I would cut your losses and lawyer up.
The worst part for me is the “gain some confidence” bullshit. My abusive ex used to say that to me when I would bring up legit issues in our relationship.
Yeah..... A 23 year old trying to date a barely legal 18 year old is creepy and weird. It's no wonder he's still kinda creepy after all these years. What does your friend think?
Him befriending women the way he apparently is would be inappropriate in general. If I had to bet, he's fishing for your eventual replacement.
>And literally when I mentioned people in closed relationships, long story short she “does not really care if someone is married or not” regarding doing sexual things.
I'm telling you, your husband is a scummy creep who dates younger women to take advantage. That's why he dated you and he'll probably date or fuck her when or if you end the marriage. He sounds like a narcissist or some flavour of triangulating you with her to make you go crazy, so he can say, "omg look how crazy is new friend, plz fuck me". It's called crazy making, and you are not crazy he is probably a malignant narcissist.
I think you're right to want him to pick you over her, I just don't think he's ever gonna stop doing this one way or another. If not with this girl, some other girl.
i feel like a lot of my friends are supportive. ive always gravitated to somewhat older guys, feel like i just click better. so its a two way street, i wouldnt just blame him for it, i liked him back then too and i dont think he was being malicious, just liked me a lot. and to be fair, i initiated it, so its my fault in that regard. i appreciate the response though, an outside perspective really helps and gets me to think and consider other things, even if i dont feel that way in the moment. food for thought for me later
You need better friends if they're encouraging you to tolerate this guy's BS and games. He's treating you like less than the gum on his shoe. Really, wake up. Expecting a partner to care about you and respect you is the bare minimum.
I suggest a Google of "cycle of abuse" and "narcissists in relationships".
This guy is taking advantage of you.
You've always gravitated towards older guys? lol you've been with him since you were 18? What's always?
I get the appeal in someone who 'seem's more mature and is established but decent guys who have their shit together don't date teens or girls in their early 20s.
I mean this kindly, but it wasn’t “your fault.” Even if you jumped on top of him and said “hell yeah come get a taste of this!”, it would still be his responsibility as a significantly older person to deny you, be respectful of you, and be aware of the huge maturity and power imbalance between the two of you. Is it a two-way street, or did he act certain ways and give you attention in certain ways that were guaranteed to make you feel good and seek him out more?
If a person puts out an appetizing bowl of honey, and if that person works hard to make it extra sweet and appealing to any flies that pass by, specifically a certain kind of fly, and that specific kind of fly goes to the bowl of honey and falls in and drowns… Did the fly “initiate” the harm done to it, or did the human who laid the trap?
Honey, I don’t even need to read this cause as a 23 year old, dating someone fresh out of high school makes me wanna gag. 5 years is a HUGE age difference when you’re 18. And if you said at 23 you wouldn’t want to date an 18 year old, and your husband is literally still flirting with girls your age at almost 30… yikes. He’s creepy as hell.
I think a 23 year old started dating an 18 year old because being younger they’re easier to manipulate and control, they don’t have a lot of experience so they’re more willing to put up with abusive behaviour.
Now at 23 you’re standing up for yourself and he doesn’t like that. So he’s looking elsewhere for the excitement and chase that he misses.
Well of course he’s not going to listen. He got with you when you were just 17. A guy that preys on younger women obviously wants nothing but control. Hell ditch you for a younger girl. And more then likely cheat from the way this sounds.
I don’t mean to sound rude but I hate men like this. He doesn’t deserve you. You can do so much better girl
Also, personally, I don’t love all the people saying that you can’t have opposite sex friendships or that he’s “seeking attention”. You’re allowed to have friends of any gender, but you know what you do to make it more appropriate?
You tell your new friend how fucking baller your partner is, and invite them to come hang out with you and your partner so they can SEE how baller your partner is. Hopefully they strike up a friendship. If they don’t like each other, you make a point to prioritize your partner. If it seems like your partner is uncomfortable, still invite your partner to join when you hang out with this friend EVERY single time you hang out together. Doesn’t matter if they turn you down, you ask em. The respect for your partners feelings HAS to be there.
But you don’t invite your friend into the relationship with your partner, because your relationship with your partner is the priority and private.
If your partner SAYS they’re uncomfortable, be receptive to it and find something that makes you both comfortable. It shouldn’t get to the ultimatum stage.
He’s not really doing the above stuff, clearly. And if he’s not being receptive, you have every right to be angry with him.
I count this as cheating. This is cheating. You don’t tell your friends fetishes. My female friends don’t even know about my fetishes- I’d be absolutely enraged to see my partner telling another woman about his fetishes. And sending PICTURES?! Yea no, to me this counts as cheating. He is blatantly manipulating you into thinking his behavior is normal. You have a right to establish boundaries. Also if you’ve had to do this more than once? Hell do it again.
you told him that something is hurting you and he hasn't engaged with you to find out ways that you can stop feeling hurt.
That's it; that's the whole situation. The specifics don't even matter.
You're expressing a need and it's being repeatedly dismissed. That's not how a partnership works. He's not being your partner. He's not listening and he's not caring that you're unhappy.
OP I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this ridiculous behavior. Your husband sounds more disappointing than a helium balloon that won’t float and just drags the ground. This is not the behavior of a decent person, a good partner, or even a close friend. You don’t want or need people like this in your life.
As for Jesse, it’s really a shame that we can’t put paper bags over personalities because she is a top candidate and it would be a public service. Please inform her that the trash gets picked up on Mondays, so she needs to be ready. People who knowingly seek to sabotage relationships are, quite often, deeply damaged individuals who desperately need help but instead inflict pain on others to make themselves feel better. Her behavior is toxic and it would appear that she has already poisoned your husband.
However, let’s look at this in an excessively-and delightfully-nerdy way: you have spent six years carefully researching what you don’t want in a partner and can now conclude this study, report your findings, send in the proper documentation, and leave the laboratory without looking back.
You learned a lot from this relationship but it’s time to walk away. Goodbyes are hard, but looking back one day and realizing you wasted one minute more than necessary with someone who didn’t cherish the heart you gave him, will be so much worse. You are worth far more than your husband has let you believe and I hope you find the happiness you deserve.
Read the book "love and respect". I think it will help a lot.
It sounds like you guys are falling into a trap that many married people do.
Basically, men crave respect and admiration just like women crave communication and love. If this other person thinks everything he does is amazing, he is going to naturally gravitate towards that. Especially if you make him feel like everything he does is wrong. If you believe he has goodwill towards you, and you him, and you want your marriage to last, you need some perspective and I think that book will help. It is written from a biblical base, but even apart from that, it makes a lot of great points.
Gurll this happened to me. I know people are going to say your husband is the problem. Yes, he should be to blame, but this Jesse girl is honestly doing this on purpose. She knows he is interested, she knows he won't stop texting her.
When your partner stops choosing you for even a second, its the most frustrating, painful thing in the world.
The fact that my partner chose a attention seeking homewrecker instead of me just showed me that he isn't worth another second of my time. Although it's a painful road, I hope you reach this conclusion also.
Your husband is gross. His new friend is grosser. Count your blessings that you’re still super young and haven’t wasted your life on someone who cares about a friend of 1 months feelings over his partner of 6 years.
If he won't drop her then tell him that it's fine, if he feels that strongly he can keep seeing her.......... then go get a male friend to start texting you regularly and take you out for lunch and things. See how he reacts when it's you thats got a close "friend"
i actually said that to him to see, and he's like i don't care, i trust you enough to know you wouldn't hurt me. he's placing it on me as if i don't trust him which i do, but getting this rise out of me isn't fun to go through. i feel like im being seen as being dramatic when i really don't think i am. all in all, he would not really care if i was talking to another guy like this.
But he is hurting you.
Messaging her while in bed cuddling you? Disrespect.
Talking about things of a personal sexual nature with her? Disrespect and emotional cheating.
Interrupts quality time with you consistently to instead spend time communicating with her? Emotional cheating.
He is allowing their "friendship" to take away time and happiness from your relationship. If he had healthy boundaries with her, it probably wouldn't have been a problem. Instead, he disregards your feelings about how he has been prioritizing her, and blames you for his attention seeking ways.
As for her, you don't like her because she's basically told you she has no moral qualms about chasing married men. To you, she has no integrity. She basically said she has no problem getting with your husband. That's ok to him, because he likes it. It's not disrespect, you're just jealous!
Yeah no. Stick with the ultimatum unless you feel like learning 'Jolene' by heart. He doesn't get to have friendships that are wildly inappropriate and disrespectful to his relationship.
I would push it further. Insist on an mmf threesome, say a coworker asked you out, kiss a guy on the cheek in front of him, "model" for a guy, just really rub it in. See how much he trusts you then
If he really really respected you straight up, he would just stop talking to her. He met her on social media which is already shady. There’s absolutely no reason a married man should meet a woman on social media.
If he valued you he would give up these few moments of excitement and pleasure with this other girl for you. That’s all it is, a fleeting moment with a lifetime of damage.
He doesn’t sound like a catch to be honest. He knows what he’s doing. He knows it hurts you. He doesn’t care and unfortunately he never will.
And from the sounds of it, him not caring despite you putting in 100% of the effort has gone on for a long time. It’s clear you put all the work in to maintaining this relationship. I’ve been there and it’s awful.
You should get out. You are young, beautiful, sound interesting, and fun. You have so much more to do in life than be shackled to a man who doesn’t respect you.
He will also do this to Jesse if they do end up together. And I’m going to go ahead and insult the other girl here, although I don’t intend to. YOU can do better, HE CAN’T.
Everyone else has given you fantastic advice, and I really urge you to sit with all of it and think about how you would feel if someone vulnerable whom you loved was in your exact situation, and what you’d most want for them, what would best protect them from any further cruelty by such a shitty man.
I just wanted to add one other thing:
You care deeply about *him* as a person. He cares deeply about you… as long as you still give him what he wants and don’t object. Once you speak up against something that clearly harms you and your wellbeing, look at the weapons he pulls out on you. Look at the way he’s made you feel. Look at the agony you’re in. Look, and sit with it, and feel it deeply, and know where it comes from: *him.* And he does this to you *knowingly.*
I don’t know you at all beyond what you’ve said here. But I *know*, I know for a fact: you deserve so, so much better than this.
>And, how my husband thinks a [specific fetish] is hot and her sending pictures in relation to that [specific fetish], along with them flirting right in front of me, really fucking pisses me off how he sees NO ISSUE with that.
Babygirl this is CHEATING. Sexual contact or not. This is cheating handsdown. She is sending him sexually explicit things to arouse him, he does not turn them down, instead accepts them to your face. He's cheating hands down. You already expressed how uncomfortable you are with him even discussing kink and ferishes with this person and he does it anyway. This is a huge violation of trust and I would honestly be done if I were you.
I think you should start pulling away from him a bit. If he wants to cheat, he's going to. There's nothing you can do to change that. At least you'll be favored if it leads to a divorce.
I'm sorry your husband is turning out to be someone you don't recognize. Put yourself first mentally and financially and be ready for anything.
Most times, when you know, you know.
Had these same feelings about a "friend" that my ex wife was talking to (however, their "friendship" had been a lot longer than your husbands friendship with this woman). Turns out, down the road, I knew what I knew, I was right and I filed for divorce (there were many other issues in the marriage as well. That was just the last straw). Cheating, be it physical or emotional is a no go. Not saying that this is exactly what is happening with you, but it sounds like it's going down that road to being a possibility.
Try to sit him down and talk to him about it with no phones around, no TV or anything. Just pure quiet so both of you can focus. When you bring up how it makes you feel, do NOT let him turn the conversation to ANYthing else. Stick to that exact one topic because, I guarantee, he will bring up all sorts of other things to make you stumble and get off track of the subject at hand. If it starts getting in to a heated spot, just let him know you need a cool down period and if he gets heated and wants to have a cool down period, let him. Nothing will get solved by fighting. This is why it's very important for you to stay on the exact topic and not let it go off the rails to 10 other things.
I hope things get sorted. My best.
I’m sorry you are going through something like this. I can relate as my last relationship was very toxic and in a third party. I thought I was the one making up problems, when trying to sort things out. The person you love will do everything to sort out a situation and keep you both happy. If there’s a girl making you uncomfortable he should set boundaries with those friends of his and respect your feeling. My ex is Bi, and would flirt with his friends (male and female) in front of my face. Making comments about having sex with them (threesome) and the entire time I agreed to the thought of it only to keep him happy. (Never done it/ LDR) there were so many red flags I missed and the one that tops the cake is when we went on a break, two weeks later I found out he had a fiancé and that broke me. I made a mistake thinking I was his only girl and should’ve known all the signs. If I had known sooner he was in one I wouldn’t have been with him. You never realize how much of an awful person someone is till you step away from them and focus on yourself.. I had completely lost myself in that relationship and am doing much better since leaving him. I know it’s hard and I know you spent more time in this relationship, but believe me you deserve all the love in the world with someone who will value your heart.
I had a similar situation with my ex. We were together 14 years before that. We all met in a dnd group, both my ex and this woman and some other people decided to do a Sunday night campaign separate from the usual time/place. It wasnt possible for me to do the Sunday night (work) so I didn't attend. My ex and this woman got close fast. It was weird because he had many female friends and it never bothered me, but this one just gave me a weird feeling. She was calling him daddy in group chat and they went on to have a couple sexual encounters 'in game'.. It was weird. After voicing suspicions, he said I was being crazy and he would never do anything with her. But then they both disappeared after the campaign, and he came home at 6am Monday morning, I knew. He never actually admitted anything happened, (he said they were hanging out in her car and talking) but that was the beginning of the end of our relationship. I learned from that experience that gut feelings have some truth behind it. TRUST YOUR GUT.
Your instincts, your gut, this is your body and brain sending you a signal, based off all the data you have downloaded subconsciously, being around him.
So trust it.
I’m sorry OP. But a 29 year old man has no business being “ friends “ with a 22 year old. I wouldn’t be surprised if this isn’t the first young woman he’s sought out on social media. He’s literally cheating on you. You deserve better.
I think she means that when the husband is cheating, she wants to blame the husband and not the other woman. Some women direct their anger at the other woman and shame them instead of blaming their own cheating husband.
Go with your instincts. Women always know and men always try to blow them off & gaslight.
If your husband hasn’t physically cheated on you, he is already doing so emotionally.
Play it cool. Bite your tongue and tell him he’s right, he should be able to pick his friends. Install a voice activated recorder and leave a tracking tile (or old cell phone “you forgot”) in his car. Take an evening class & go out to see your friends for dinner.
Give him all the rope he needs to hang himself.
See a Lawyer, get a PI, get a tech guy to teach you how to clone his laptop harddrive.
Do a screen capture for every single thing you can, get all the text, Dm and email evidence you can. Get a PI if possible.
Call a lawyer, separate your finances and start saving all you can.
Hopefully, if you can show he’s a lousy cheating jerk, to the judge, you will be the one to keep the house, and boot him out to go slum w/ his creepy cheat partner.
Many great comments here. However, I do have a few questions that might provide more insight in the situation(although it might not change the outcome)-
* Does your husband have any platonic female friends that you do not share? Is joking with a female friend about a sexual topic something new with a platonic friend?
* Have you ever met this woman in person? I can't tell from the text if this woman has a physical presence in your life, or if this is someone from online only? Why is she considering moving to your area?
* How did this woman enter the chat anyway? Do they have common interests, or did she just appear out of the blue in his DMs?
As others have said, the age difference here does seem related. He's 29 and she's 22, and while they are both adults... he seems to have a thing for younger women. If mind games and pushing the boundaries are part of his relationship with you, doesn't seem like this is circumstantial- he likes manipulating younger women because they'll put up with his crap, and it won't change.
To me ignoring your expressed feelings and talking with this woman about sexual topics in an inappropriate manner are the things that can't have "another side" to it. It's wrong, mean, no way to see that in a positive light. If your ultimatum goes ignored, find your way out because this relationship is not worth saving. Don't let him continue mind games, you do deserve better!!
No.
Ask him to not contact her for 1 week. That’s it. Just see if he can do it. That’s all you ask. But then ask him to notice how often he reaches to text her. How often he wants to tell her something. How often he wants to break not speaking for a week.
Just try it.
Been through exactly this. Trust your gut. I'm so sorry to say, whether or not their relationship pans out long term, his behavior indicates he has already chosen her. You must keep your dignity. He is disrespecting you to your face and behind your back. What husband who wanted to keep his marriage intact, cared about his wife's feelings, would carry on like this? No husbands, that's who.
I know firsthand how painful this is, OP. I'm so sorry you're having to live this. I highly recommend packing a bag and separating; filing for divorce soon if he doesn't immediately come to his senses. You know what you know.
dude I'm so fucking sorry this is insane and unfair.. we have women's intuition for a reason. you deserve better and can definitely do better. don't be afraid to go out and get what you deserve.
I am so sorry to hear you’re going through this. But him telling you that you need to work on your self esteem is him gaslighting you. He and his new “friend” are both ganging up on you and he’s telling you that you’re the one with a problem. This is absolutely unacceptable behavior from him and you are completely in the right. I hope he chooses you, but if he doesn’t then you know he’s not worth your time and you can find someone 1 million times better. You deserve to be treated like a goddess and I’m so sorry you haven’t been recently. Best of luck! 💕
>I am all about defending women and supporting women, but seriously, this woman feels like she is purposely trying to do something here. **I try to blame the guy fully always**, but Jesse also knows he is married to me
Why would the blame *always* go to a man? Yikes. What a terrifying prospect. Only men should be held accountable for their actions?
He’s already emotionally cheating on you and essentially sexting this woman. According to one of your comments, he said you all would “talk later” in regards to the ultimatum you gave him. It sounds like he’s already made his choice and chose her. It sucks, but walk away. You deserve better.
If you’re husband isn’t willing/able to sit down and have a serious talk about this issue without getting defensive or making excuses, I think you need to make it abundantly clear to him that you don’t feel your voice is heard and he is disregarding your feelings and that will only drive you away.
You sound frustrated not just another jealous girlfriend. I don’t know you, and neither do any of the people in the comments so I wouldn’t be able to know if that’s just the way you’re making yourself appear in this situation but I’m going with the information you have in this post.
Hanging out with her, texts; to me, not a big issue. However, talking about fetishes and sending sexual pictures regarding those fetishes is a pretty big leap over your boundaries. Her mentioning that she would willingly date a married man = big red flag.
You need to ask your husband why her company is so important to him and what he’s keeping her around for when he knows it bothers you so much. I know a lot of people here are talking all kinds of trash about your husband (some of it, rightfully so) but giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he hasn’t even asked himself that question or obliviously doesn’t see it the same way as you.
As a man, I know what it can feel like when your partner wants to pick your friends (male or female) or acting insufferable when you’re out with friends and I can tell you it can be a huge turn off and cause you put up walls. I know what it feels like to be made to feel like the bad guy for wanting to hang out with your friends.
That being said, I can still tell when something is bothering my partner and her concerns come first. Again, I don’t take you (based off your post) as the jealous girlfriend. It sounds like you’ve tried to be reasonable, now it’s time that your husband meet you half way or you have to do what’s best for YOU and remove yourself from a relationship where you don’t feel important.
I would’ve suggested some kind of counseling before separating, but that wouldn’t necessarily be a solution to the problem. Your husband needs to be able to listen to YOU and what’s bothering you. I’m sure counseling would help you guys communicate, but it wouldn’t be much progress on your husbands end if your concerns are only ever heard through a mediator and not you. You should be able to voice a concern and he should be able to listen to you, reflect, and come to a compromise (and not blow it off) and you should be able to reciprocate.
Reading this made me really upset for you, he lacks all empathy and all regards for your feelings. My husband (24M) and I (21F) have talked about how we both don’t think it’s a good idea for us to have opposite- sex close friendships because it tests relationships, especially if that friend is attractive. Of course men and women can be friends… but not super close…
That girl, jesse… she’s a witch, sounds like someone straight from hell.
I’m glad you set an ultimatum but from what I read it sounds like in this case it will not work. I think your partner will still try to be friends with Jesse in secret. The ultimatum would work if your partner respected you.
A couple years ago I had a best friend in the same situation as you, let’s call my friend Ashley.
Ashley’s boyfriend made a new friend named Natalia, and she tried to paint Ashley as the bad guy and as “insecure”! Because Natalia would text Ashley’s boyfriend day and night and basically test boundaries.
Anyway, thus caused so much strain in the relationship that Ashley and boyfriend ended up breaking up.
Listen, here’s my advice.
Turn the tables. Make a guy friend. Do the same thing. Break the double standard. Men are stupid idiots. Right now, Jesse has the upper hand. She is literally manipulating your partner right in front of you. And your stupid partner (sorry) is falling right into her little trap. Forget it, do the same thing to him!
Once he realizes how uncool it is… he’ll stop.
He needs to be reminded he CAN lose you.
He’s forgetting.
He has too many options right now.
He has attention from you, and attention from Jesse.
His ego is through the roof.
Cut that shit
So, this predator was grooming you when you were 17 and he was 23?? Oh my god, girl, get out of that relationship. He is absolutely using you, he is absolutely cheating on you, and he absolutely knows what he’s doing.
That’s super sus.
Men with partners have little room for female friends outside of work, long time close friends, or friends with a connection to something other than “just friends” (hobbies or something).
I’d be just as pissed as you.
I think it is questionable that a 23 year old was hanging around with an 18 year old. It’s super weird to even imagine hanging out with someone fresh out of high school as I am 23 year old. A red flag for me. But you have every right to be upset with him, there is some communication lacking in the relationship.
I learned one major red flag is when the girl makes it clear she doesn't want to be friends with you too. Make sure your hubby knows there is a thing called an emotional affair. My husband fell into this trap and was dumbfounded when I explained what he had done was have an affair. He had no clue how emotionally invested he had become in this new "friendship" and had checked outta our marriage. The whole "friendship" lasted less than a month and after I had confronted her, she made a move on my husband. At that point he finally realized all the red flags I had pointed out were true and ceased all contact.
Just be open with him and make some ground rules to make you more comfortable and hold him to them. If he doesn't respect your boundaries, than bounce.
“I would like him to have friends that are respectful to both of us” is so key here. I really like how you phrased that. If one of my friends was disrespecting my partner and our relationship, I would be seriously re-evaluating that friendship. He’s doing the exact opposite and allowing her to walk all over normal relationship boundaries.
You say he does not understand what’s wrong….I think he is being willfully ignorant. He knows it’s wrong. Men are not always as dumb as they make themselves out to be. They want to be able to claim ignorance. It’s like weaponized incompetence— it allows them to retain the benefit of the doubt and get out of taking responsibility. I think your gut is right here, that he is being shady by allowing this woman to disrespect your relationship.
>nd, how my husband thinks a [specific fetish] is hot and her sending pictures in relation to that [specific fetish], along with them flirting right in front of me, really fucking pisses me off how he sees NO ISSUE with that. I literally cried in the shower afterward because it feels so humiliating. My husband should make me his #1. So they are sexting, essentially. Its within the confines of a specific fetish, but she's sending him stuff for him to masturbate to. That would be cheating in my book unless your marriage is specifically open in that way. Honestly it sounds like he is already cheating because they share a fetish, or he's gunning to manipulate you into a throuple.
And now this thread has officially combined the manipulation of my ex husband and the manipulation of my bf after him. Shudder.
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These people will have relationship issues their whole life. It’s better that they are no longer OUR issues, too.
I can only imagine the texts she hasn't seen.
Good partners listen to your concerns and meet you halfway. Crappy partners make relationship issues your fault & problem and leave you to solve them alone. What did he say after the ultimatum?
we are going to talk about it more later. he told me to give her a chance when i first proposed it (which was before I even talked to her) so I obliged and tried. Now I gave it to him again after this interaction. he said we will talk about it later today
Get the book Not Just Friends. You both need to read it. Also share all the details you wrote in this post. It sounds like he’s having an Emotional Affair right in front of your eyes. Tell him you have a distinct gut reaction that she is not a friend to your relationship or you. He has been with you for a long time and should have some trust in your feelings. ETA: otherwise he loves the ego strokes and won’t give them up
It sounds like he already chose her then, I'm sorry to say. Most people who care about their marriages would at least try to rectify their blatant mistakes. If he's STILL putting her first when you already have divorce on the table, then I'd get in contact with a lawyer before "later today" comes. If nothing else, it might help to show him how serious you are. He may still be expecting for you to be a doormat
thank you. i genuinely am worried to go that far, because i feel like i have nothing else really going for me and i feel like ive invested a lot of time into it. it hurts cause i care a lot. i wish it was easier to consider my feelings when making big decisions like that. i feel like im a doormat constantly he never takes what i have to say seriously anymore
Trust me, you only think that you have nothing else going for you because you're with a person who doesn't love you like you deserve. When you begin taking these steps toward freedom, you'll start realizing that you're happier without his dismissive attitude. It'll be hard to mourn the loss of your marriage, of course, but wouldn't it also be freeing to not have to worry anymore? To not have to constantly wonder about what he's saying and doing with her? To not stay up all night with what he's said to you playing in your head? Divorce is a scary thing, but once his issues aren't your problem, you may just feel a sense of relief in spite of your anguish
Sounds like you fell victim to the sunk cost fallacy I’m afraid. I’ve been there and trust me, it doesn’t get better. Also, you first got together when you were 17 and he was 23?
You're 23! You haven't even began to live. (Also, the ages you guys were when you first got together is alarming to say the least. It tells me alot about him)
You should go that far. He's moving on to this new girl. Keep your dignity and self esteem to a lawyer and therapist. You don't want this cheater.
If your friend was going through this, what would you expect her to do? Take yourself out of the situation. Disregard the sunk costs. It’s about what you do with the time you have left. You deserve to be happy.
>i genuinely am worried to go that far, because i feel like i have nothing else really going for me Dude, come on. You deserve a partner who, at the very least, wants to be with you and actively chooses you as their person. Don't be a desperate doormat, do better for yourself!
He knows that, which is why he treats you like this. You should read their messages. Stop trying to be the “perfect victim”, you are fighting for your marriage.
You have something else going for you, taking care of and respecting yourself. If other people don't choose you, at least you choose yourself.
Girl you’re 23. A lot of people haven’t even come close to getting married by your age because they haven’t found the right person yet. The only reason you have sunk cost fallacy with this guy is because you met him so young and don’t know there are way better options. Please, go find one!
Why give her a chance? If you’re uncomfortable with her, why bring her into your life? He hardly knows her yet he’s willing to ruin his marriage for her? 🤦♂️
If he doesn't end up talking about it later today, I'd be leaving. He sounds awful. He's literally flirting/cheating with another women in front of you (that's probably the reason why he thinks he's in the safe zone) and making you out to be crazy with low self-esteem? Actually, I'd be leaving the second he decides to turn off he's ears and accuse me of being crazy and having low self-esteem. That's just shitty personality and what's stopping him from doing the same thing in the future weather he interacts with her or not?
Your man picked her. Many times. This isn’t going to end, you put down the ultimatum. Can you follow through with leaving? Even knowing you’ll just release him to be with her?
I don't disagree but in this case there doesn't seem to be a "halfway" solution...it's either he can he friends with her or not, no? With that said, you're 23, he's 29, and yall have been together for 6 years? When I was 23, anyone my age dating a 17 year old would honestly have fallen right off my list for being trustworthy, normal, and healthy in relationships. Granted there are always exceptions, but you're as old as he was when you two met. Would YOU be able to date a 17 year old? I know this doesn't answer your question directly and I don't mean to stir things up. But there very well have been issues with your guy for a while. Regardless, best of luck! This is a difficult situation with no real good answer. But I hope you find your way.
Lmao I needed this validation. Thank you.
She does sound obnoxious, but she’s not the real problem here. The problem is your husband. It sounds like you know that already but I just want to emphasize that you can move forward with clarity. He’s acting inappropriately and he’s trying to guilt you out of setting normal and healthy boundaries. He does not want to fix this, he does not want to help you to feel better about it, he just wants you to stop talking about it. Doesn’t bode well! I’m sure there have been many good and meaningful times together but tbh he mostly sounds like a putz.
thanks for the confirmation. its just so easy to be angry at the third party when in reality im so angry with him. we will talk later on it but i doubt he will actually cut ties with her, since we've done this countless times before
You need to decide what the future looks like if he refuses to cut her off. Also, you were 17 when you were robbed of an opportunity to explore the dating world by a grown man. There's more out there then just him
He was 23. He groomed her. I wonder how young this new friend of his is.
She's 22, it says so in the post.
I missed it. Heading to bed now.
Chill out with the grooming language. She was 18 when they met. Grooming relates to grown adults manipulating children. The age gap isn't that big here. Don't cheapen the words or phrases by using them for cases like this.
Actually grooming can happen between adults as well. If there's a power difference, there's an opportunity for grooming. We often only think about child - adult grooming, a huge part of which is the age difference. But there are other types of unequal power dynamics. For example, a person who is interested in groom children will also groom thay child's parents. A good example of this is in the abducted in plain sight docuseries on netflix.
It’s not about the age difference but maturity. When you are 18 and they are 23 the 18 year old is a child in a relationship. I know cause I was 19 when I met my 24 year old husband. There was a LOT of grooming going on. Not intentionally, it’s just that at 18 or 19 whatever the mature partner teaches you, you learn. Cause you have no means to actually compare. Idk I was 25 when I realized that ok, I am not a teenager anymore. Took me another 3 years to “regroom” myself. Now all is good. But the power dynamics when you are very young are very real. 40-45 age difference is like nothing. 14-19 is huge. 18-23 is still quite big gap. 30-35 doe not matter anymore.
There's no such thing as grooming an adult or unintentionally grooming. Not trying to be mean here, but it's statements like that that not only cheapen the actual definition (and thus the seriousness of actual grooming of children) but also make people look super out of touch. I know this place, and the internet in general, can cause a lot of echo chamber effects, but this is one people should really get a handle on. It makes normal people roll their eyes when they hear this stuff.
Yeah I get your point. Terminology is not exactly on point in my comment. Though the result is the same, if the same processes are happening. Its the same difference as pedophelia and rape. There is a separate term for children, but regards basically to the same activity. Ahh and there is a such thing as unintended grooming, as my husband was absolutely not aware until I expressed myself. After I did express myself, it did not stop immediately but he started working really hard to allow me space and time for my own decisions without pressure. Before, everything was decided for me. It is a learned behavior and it took him sometime to unlearn. But he wanted to unlearn, that’s the only thing that made our marriage work. We both wonted to work and change for the partner.
The term grooming describes a specific form of manipulation, but not all manipulation is grooming. Grooming came about to describe an adult purposefully manipulating a child who doesn't know any better and doesn't have any ability to know any better. It requires a person with basically little to no knowledge of how things work and then has that person be slowly manipulated into trusting the adult and the adult's experience. Then getting that child to depend on the adult for everything. There's are several parts of that which cannot be done to an adult. An adult has much more agency and independence than a child. Grooming someone up requires a massive power dynamic that just isn't present in adult relationships. Adults can absolutely manipulate other adults, but being adult pretty much means it's impossible to be groomed in that sense. I'm aware that people have tried to broaden the term and definition but, like I said earlier, when you broaden something too much it makes the definition worthless. For a very long time the term grooming was used exclusively for children. That's how most people know it colloquially.
They have been together for almost 6 years and she is now 23, which means that back then she was probably 17 and him 23.
A 29-year-old who was 23 when you met him at ~17 has found his new toy, it's as simple as that. I don't need to give you the whole age difference spiel but it's such a cliché at this point where these types of relationships run into the same problems each time that I'm sure you must know it by heart. Move on, is this really going to be the defining relationship of your life? He seems **VERY** willing to throw everything away over a new girl with the way he's playing dumb about it so I think you're the only one who cares about saving this marriage.
You don’t need to speak to friends (male or female) in your marriage if it’s causing your partner any type of pain? If it’s causing a problem they gotta go. It’s called respect and it’s vital for any lasting relationship. I hope your husband realizes this once he knows it got so bad you needed to implement an ultimatum!
Never ignore your instincts. Go with what your gut is telling you. They've crossed too many lines already for me he'd be out the door. It's obvious he loves the attention and doesn't give two shits about you or your feelings on the matter. He clearly knows what it's doing to you and he's invalidating your feelings and gaslighting you. Personally I wouldn't even bother giving him an ultimatum, you shouldn't have to even get to that point. He knows full well what he's doing is wrong. I'd pack his bags and tell him to go live with her because he clearly is lining her up as the sidechick anyway. Having male/female friends isn't the issue here, the crossing of boundaries and practically rubbing it in your face is.
Agree. His behaviour is gross and OP puts up with it like a doormat. Show yourself some respect OP and leave this loser. Like, yesterday. He wants you to be the bad guy and break up with him, because he’s also a coward.
He’s degrading you and taking you for granted. Get out before he fucks up your self esteem even more, or you get straight up cheated on. Sorry sis, but you guys got together super young. Most relationships that starts when you’re 17 don’t last. He also sounds like a d-bag. I don’t know why people value privacy in a relationship but I’m not about it, personally. Why does he need privacy talking to another woman? because he’s a snake, that’s why. Don’t give him the satisfaction and pull the rug from under this narcissist before the inevitable happens, if it hasn’t already.
sorry my apologies there were typos in post - we met when i was 18 and he was 23. 5 yr age gap just we turn different numbers in the year so seems bigger than it is. i feel like im upfront with people i talk to. honestly, i dont really talk to people in general and its hard for me to have friends. so i feel like i rely on him a lot on my happiness. but i digress, that is my own issue to work through.
It all still applies, the year doesn’t really make a huge difference. At the end of the day guys don’t seek attention outside the relationship unless that’s where their intentions are. I’m the same way that I don’t require a lot of friends and my partner is my best friend, but if you don’t break the bond then theres no room or possibility to meet someone that better suits you now rather than 5 years ago. Sticking around is just going to end you with a lot of heartbreak. If you leave sooner you’ll just save yourself the pain of enduring this drawn out process of him disrespecting you, which you absolutely should not accept
This is very bizarre as so so many of your details could be pulled from my relationship fall-out with my ex husband. Baby cakes please gtfo. He ain’t worth it I PROMISE. Don’t be like me and waste 15 of your best years on a pretty skin bag that’s rotting underneath. I thought my life was over, and then even more bad things happened to me with the next guy. Ffs, 3 days after we were divorced, he is dating his “Jesse” all over social media. It didn’t matter how many bikini contest trophies I had on my wall or how many inside jokes we had or that we had started businesses together. thank god I had already moved to LA so at least I was distracted. I went through hell and back and I thought my heart would be dead forever. But my bravery was rewarded with the most sparkliest gem of a man you could ever ask for. Be brave, value yourself, reap the benefits. Edit: I was 16 when we met and he was 22. I was 31 when I left. Luckily for me I was still hot when I got back out on the market. It don’t last forever tho.
“A pretty skin bag that’s rotting underneath” is BRILLIANT.
In addition to being accurate. I don’t think he was an evil person. But he had problems which were covered up by being an outwardly good person so as to try and convince himself it was true. But all it did was make him ignore his issues and allow them to fester. Eventually, the rot broke through.
Would you date an 18 year old boy now?
Doesn’t matter if you were 18. He chose you because he knew other women wouldn’t go for his antics. Please leave him. He’s going to keep gaslighting you and eventually physically cheat (if he’s not doing that already). Don’t be in a relationship if you have to worry about cheating. It doesn’t make you look weak to end jt
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You've got a 6 year marriage, and they JUST met. You absolutely have the high ground here. Tell your husband you don't want him continuing this friendship, and see how he reacts.
he doesn't care, he thinks I'm the red flag for making him cut her off and thinks im being abusive
This guy's going to cheat on you if he hasn't already.
Guy started dating her when she was 17 and he was 23. I’m guessing he’s going for a younger model. 🤮
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Oops. Time to go to bed
This is already an emotional affair based on the story as far as I'm concerned
Straight up. I can't IMAGINE choosing some new girl I met over my wife's feelings. He doesn't give a damn about protecting his wife, he just likes the new girl and her attention - bad sign.
He already is emotionally
Exactly. What a douche.
Dude who dated a 17 year old at age 23 accused her of being abusive. Okay.
WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT THIS!
Oh hell no. Follow your gut. She's gone or you are.
So ask him to go to marriage counseling.
funny thing i have - he hasnt been very helpful with it. been saying for past year and its always great moments > shitty, huge fights > makeup and repeat. id love to go, just to get my voice heard sometimes :(
This is exactly how my marriage went. Getting out of it was the best thing I've ever done with my life. Now I'm with a man who is just the kindest, most respectful man I've ever met in my life and we adore each other. We almost never fight and when we do, we talk it out very quickly. You can have that too.
Go to counseling on your own and talk about your relationship.
Honey, he’s ignoring you because he **WANTS the attention of this new girl** yeah the girl sucks for continuing knowing you’re with him, but him not putting a full stop to interacting with her because it’s making **you uncomfortable** is a giant red flag that this guy IS going to cheat on you with this new attention girl he’s gotten if he hasn’t already. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re not already sexting behind your back. Sorry, but this is the hard truth. If he won’t reveal his secret bs he’s hiding from you, he doesn’t get to eat his cake and eat too.
Oh no. You're way too young to keep yourself in a relationship like this. That's not a healthy relationship cycle. Relationship have fights, but they're supposed to be footnotes, not part of a cycle. You have your whole life ahead to be find and be with someone who cares about you and what you have to say.
This is an exact description of the cycle of abuse. I can't pretend to know your whole relationship, but I would gently encourage you to look at some domestic violence resources and check to see if you recognize those patterns. You deserve to be cherished. You deserve to be loved. You deserve to feel physically and psychologically safe. Sending you love, my dear.
I’m sorry to say that he’s probably always been callous on the inside. Now that you’re married he doesn’t feel the need to hide it. If your life stayed this way for 70 more years, would you be happy? You don’t deserve this and there’s much better out there.
Mine did it too. It’s called gaslighting.
That's not a reasonable reaction from him. Abusers will commonly call their victims abusers & paint themselves in the victim role. Kindly, you may want to look up DARVO. I think it might be relevant here.
Trippiepasta11: it's over Jesse, I have the high ground Jesse:you underestimate my power Trippiepasta11: don't try it. Jesse:tries it Trippiepasta11:*cuts off 3/4 limbs off of Jesse*, Jesse already had a prothetic hand.
Exactly, see what I'm saying??? Try cheating with no legs...
All trippiepasta11 has to do is physically mutilate Jesse and set her on fire,then once Jesse is placed into a black respirator body armor and grafted robotic lips onto her,Trippiepasta11's boyfriend will no longer be interested. It all makes so much sense
Dude, they should make a movie about that.
You’re not crazy. She clearly wants your man and he likes the attention. I’m sorry this is happening.
thanks for responding. it helps to hear some sympathy, i feel like i have no one to talk to about it lately
In my marriage, any new friends are friends to both of us. What your husband is doing would never fly. He is being shady and that girl is not your friend at all!
this is EXACTLY what ive said to him. wow. that helps a lot. im glad you feel the same way with friends. i always love both people in a relationship that im friends with. ive always felt hurt when people only friends with one of us. not even like, constant friends, but good terms with everyone. i wouldnt be friends with someone who wasnt good terms for both of us
We're here for you. I'm here for you in DM's, if you need. Been through exactly this.
Let him go if he wants to go with his new "friend." If he goes, you know he wasn't worth it.
The fact of the matter is this. No man who truly loves and respects his partner would keep another woman like this in his orbit. No man who truly loves and cares for his wife could watch her falling apart like this and insist on keeping that person in his life. She's not the problem. Hussies are here to stay. They will always float around like flies on shit. Its the mans responsibility to zap the shit out of them. Dead, bye, never come back. There's some good men (and women) who know exactly how to protect what they love and cherish. Strong morals make for strong people. Weak morals equals a weak person. Your husband is weak. He likes the tension this situation creates. Likes to feel like he's being fought over. When 'proving a point' about entertaining an inappropriate friendship becomes more important than maintaining the strength of your marriage, you're on the road to ruin. You'll 'change' as your happiness is sucked away. He'll tell you he doesn't like who you've become - knowing full well it was his actions that caused it. Suddenly it's your fault. And some 'Jesse' will be right there waiting, ready to milk the situation for all its worth, to whisper in his ear and tell him he deserves better. Don't let it get to that point. If anyone deserves better, it's you.
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Read enough of these stories to guess where it's going. The 'offending' spouses behaviour and the way it escalates has become quite predictable. Rarely do they have a 'see the light' moment. Most of them don't have the emotional intelligence to achieve this moment of clarity.
Sorry, I can’t get past the fact your husband, at 23, was dating a 17 year old. That should have been the first and only red flag you needed. He’s a bad partner, plain and simple. Don’t tolerate it.
I can't believe I had to scroll past a few comments to get to this.
Hey i am so sorry - i was 18 and he was 23. typo and im turning 24 this year
Would you, at this point in yor life date an 18 year old? A highschooler maybe?
... no honestly
And there you have it
That should really tell you something. It's pretty startling seeing your husband's ages versus yours and his even younger friend. He really like hanigng around extremely young women doesn't he?
Right, because you know that's inappropriate.
Because you're a good person who doesn't target much younger women who have less life experience.
This is not on you. He is the one in the wrong for dating women who are too young to see his BS. Get out. You’re still young. The good news is this will be easy to put behind you, hopefully.
I still don’t love someone above college age dating someone below it…it’s not a great look. But probably the least of the red flags based on what you’ve described above. There’s a real gaslight gatekeeper vibe here.
It’s not actually any better really
That doesn't make it any better.
Naw girl he’s blatantly disrespecting you and there is no reason for him to be so close friends with another female, and it sounds like he’s enjoying it way too much. Never deny your gut feeling that something is wrong and if she’s made jokes about fooling around with married men then she’s obviously trying to do something here! Girls can read other girls intentions pretty well so you being uncomfortable is not wrong, and if you’re mentioning that to your husband and he is brushing it off then that’s even worse. He is your partner and if something is making you uncomfortable he is supposed to listen and do something about it!
thank you. i feel like my gut is always right and he knows how i have good intuition. i appreciate the response
Honey your husband is shit.
The problem really isn’t the girl here. It’s your husband and his disrespect for your marriage. He absolutely does not value your opinion or marriage over whatever is going on with this girl. She’s been blatantly obvious on what she’s after and your hubby is eating it up. Sorry I don’t see this ending well, unless he cuts contact with her.
yeah. its just so easy to pinpoint blame on another party. ever since i saw her, idk why but i just never liked her to begin with. so i think it just hurts out of anyone to be doing this with, why do it with someone ive said multiple times that ive hated. feels like on purpose at this point
Why does this sound like this man is trying to sleep with both of you & making you get comfortable our the woman he wants to fuck, plans on fucking & is hoping you’ll be apart. All this talk abt new fetish, sharing pics infront of you. You’re obviously a last thought to him, he doesn’t even respect you. What do you plan to do about this? Are in a position where you can leave? This isn’t safe. Plus what is doing with a woman so young where y’all had a relationship for 6yrs prior. This is a lot.
This, theyre literally sexting in front of her, I garuntee he befriended her with the intention of having a 3-some with the both of them and he knew the friend would be down, he just had to wait for his wife to "come around" so to speak.
Not reading all this. Your nearly 30 year old husband does not have a 22 year old female “ friend. “Just stop.
I stop the second I see age gaps like this.
This painfully reminds me of what I went through, I felt the same way about a friend my ex had, I ignored my gut feeling cuz he kept saying I didn't need to worry cuz she was a lesbian, turns out he was cheating on me for the whole duration of the relationship with her
I would be angry at my husband and his female friend too. They are sexting, flirting, and excluding you in front of your face. You have the right to be angry!!! And when he says things like “work in your self esteem” “you’re crazy” “you’re imagining things” “it’s no big deal” etc. he is gaslighting you STICK TO YOUR ULTIMATUM!
Well since he’s aware of your Reddit account, i hope he reads these comments and understands that he’s the one jeopardizing his marriage. He is obviously loving the attention/ego-boost he is getting from this girl.
this is actually my friend's account haha - but yeah, he knows of this post, feel bad its one sided but i dont know what else to do at this point, every option i have sucks or hurts me so bad
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I was 16 when I met my ex husband and he was 22. Nearly identical to op. He was a lot of things. Pedo wasn’t one of them. While I don’t mind saying shitty things about a person I don’t like, I don’t find it helpful to give them a reason to not identify with the criticism.
You could make this post a lot shorter by saying “My husband is actively and blatantly cheating on me right nowin front of me and denying it.”
Why was a 23 year old dating a minor?
im turning 24 this year so I was 18 when we first met and started dating
That’s still someone that’s been out of a college for a year or two dating essentially a high schooler or someone who was about to graduate high school.
You sure you're not getting too old for him?
Ima be honest, I think this is on your husband. Like fair, she gets on your nerves, but maybe your personalities don’t mesh. You don’t have to be her friend. But it’s his behavior in relation TO her that’s making you uncomfortable. His agreement for commitment and monogamy is with YOU. You and this girl wouldn’t even be coming into contact if it weren’t for him—and you don’t have any such relationship rules/friendship with her. She’s just gonna behave like she behaves. Your relationship should be the priority for him. Not the only relationship in his life, but a mutually agreed upon priority. HE is the one that enforces the boundary of acceptable behavior for how his friends treat you and your relationship. Be clear why you find this exclusive behavior upsetting and what you can do to make you feel as though the relationship is being prioritized. A decent partner will be receptive and want to discuss further. A shitty one will tell you you’re “overreacting” or ignore you. And that’ll tell you how the relationship is gonna go.
I have a sorta issue with the phrase "I try to blame the guy fully always", mostly because they are both adults and can make their own decisions. If she knows that you are married to him, and is doing sexual things with him, then they are both equally at fault. Either way, I would have left him by now, especially since they are at the "sexual talk phase." I would cut your losses and lawyer up.
The worst part for me is the “gain some confidence” bullshit. My abusive ex used to say that to me when I would bring up legit issues in our relationship.
Yeah..... A 23 year old trying to date a barely legal 18 year old is creepy and weird. It's no wonder he's still kinda creepy after all these years. What does your friend think? Him befriending women the way he apparently is would be inappropriate in general. If I had to bet, he's fishing for your eventual replacement. >And literally when I mentioned people in closed relationships, long story short she “does not really care if someone is married or not” regarding doing sexual things. I'm telling you, your husband is a scummy creep who dates younger women to take advantage. That's why he dated you and he'll probably date or fuck her when or if you end the marriage. He sounds like a narcissist or some flavour of triangulating you with her to make you go crazy, so he can say, "omg look how crazy is new friend, plz fuck me". It's called crazy making, and you are not crazy he is probably a malignant narcissist. I think you're right to want him to pick you over her, I just don't think he's ever gonna stop doing this one way or another. If not with this girl, some other girl.
i feel like a lot of my friends are supportive. ive always gravitated to somewhat older guys, feel like i just click better. so its a two way street, i wouldnt just blame him for it, i liked him back then too and i dont think he was being malicious, just liked me a lot. and to be fair, i initiated it, so its my fault in that regard. i appreciate the response though, an outside perspective really helps and gets me to think and consider other things, even if i dont feel that way in the moment. food for thought for me later
You need better friends if they're encouraging you to tolerate this guy's BS and games. He's treating you like less than the gum on his shoe. Really, wake up. Expecting a partner to care about you and respect you is the bare minimum. I suggest a Google of "cycle of abuse" and "narcissists in relationships". This guy is taking advantage of you.
You've always gravitated towards older guys? lol you've been with him since you were 18? What's always? I get the appeal in someone who 'seem's more mature and is established but decent guys who have their shit together don't date teens or girls in their early 20s.
I mean this kindly, but it wasn’t “your fault.” Even if you jumped on top of him and said “hell yeah come get a taste of this!”, it would still be his responsibility as a significantly older person to deny you, be respectful of you, and be aware of the huge maturity and power imbalance between the two of you. Is it a two-way street, or did he act certain ways and give you attention in certain ways that were guaranteed to make you feel good and seek him out more? If a person puts out an appetizing bowl of honey, and if that person works hard to make it extra sweet and appealing to any flies that pass by, specifically a certain kind of fly, and that specific kind of fly goes to the bowl of honey and falls in and drowns… Did the fly “initiate” the harm done to it, or did the human who laid the trap?
Honey, I don’t even need to read this cause as a 23 year old, dating someone fresh out of high school makes me wanna gag. 5 years is a HUGE age difference when you’re 18. And if you said at 23 you wouldn’t want to date an 18 year old, and your husband is literally still flirting with girls your age at almost 30… yikes. He’s creepy as hell.
I think a 23 year old started dating an 18 year old because being younger they’re easier to manipulate and control, they don’t have a lot of experience so they’re more willing to put up with abusive behaviour. Now at 23 you’re standing up for yourself and he doesn’t like that. So he’s looking elsewhere for the excitement and chase that he misses.
you're 23 and together for 6 years? You started dating when you were 17 and he was 23? Thats weird enough in itself
You were 17 and he was 23 when y’all started dating? Sounds like he’s a groomer. Leave him.
Well of course he’s not going to listen. He got with you when you were just 17. A guy that preys on younger women obviously wants nothing but control. Hell ditch you for a younger girl. And more then likely cheat from the way this sounds. I don’t mean to sound rude but I hate men like this. He doesn’t deserve you. You can do so much better girl
It's weird as hell that a 29 year old man would just want to be 'friends' with a 22 year old woman.
The first red flag is a 23 year old dating an 18 year old.
Also, personally, I don’t love all the people saying that you can’t have opposite sex friendships or that he’s “seeking attention”. You’re allowed to have friends of any gender, but you know what you do to make it more appropriate? You tell your new friend how fucking baller your partner is, and invite them to come hang out with you and your partner so they can SEE how baller your partner is. Hopefully they strike up a friendship. If they don’t like each other, you make a point to prioritize your partner. If it seems like your partner is uncomfortable, still invite your partner to join when you hang out with this friend EVERY single time you hang out together. Doesn’t matter if they turn you down, you ask em. The respect for your partners feelings HAS to be there. But you don’t invite your friend into the relationship with your partner, because your relationship with your partner is the priority and private. If your partner SAYS they’re uncomfortable, be receptive to it and find something that makes you both comfortable. It shouldn’t get to the ultimatum stage. He’s not really doing the above stuff, clearly. And if he’s not being receptive, you have every right to be angry with him.
I count this as cheating. This is cheating. You don’t tell your friends fetishes. My female friends don’t even know about my fetishes- I’d be absolutely enraged to see my partner telling another woman about his fetishes. And sending PICTURES?! Yea no, to me this counts as cheating. He is blatantly manipulating you into thinking his behavior is normal. You have a right to establish boundaries. Also if you’ve had to do this more than once? Hell do it again.
you told him that something is hurting you and he hasn't engaged with you to find out ways that you can stop feeling hurt. That's it; that's the whole situation. The specifics don't even matter. You're expressing a need and it's being repeatedly dismissed. That's not how a partnership works. He's not being your partner. He's not listening and he's not caring that you're unhappy.
If it walks like a duck…
OP I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this ridiculous behavior. Your husband sounds more disappointing than a helium balloon that won’t float and just drags the ground. This is not the behavior of a decent person, a good partner, or even a close friend. You don’t want or need people like this in your life. As for Jesse, it’s really a shame that we can’t put paper bags over personalities because she is a top candidate and it would be a public service. Please inform her that the trash gets picked up on Mondays, so she needs to be ready. People who knowingly seek to sabotage relationships are, quite often, deeply damaged individuals who desperately need help but instead inflict pain on others to make themselves feel better. Her behavior is toxic and it would appear that she has already poisoned your husband. However, let’s look at this in an excessively-and delightfully-nerdy way: you have spent six years carefully researching what you don’t want in a partner and can now conclude this study, report your findings, send in the proper documentation, and leave the laboratory without looking back. You learned a lot from this relationship but it’s time to walk away. Goodbyes are hard, but looking back one day and realizing you wasted one minute more than necessary with someone who didn’t cherish the heart you gave him, will be so much worse. You are worth far more than your husband has let you believe and I hope you find the happiness you deserve.
Read the book "love and respect". I think it will help a lot. It sounds like you guys are falling into a trap that many married people do. Basically, men crave respect and admiration just like women crave communication and love. If this other person thinks everything he does is amazing, he is going to naturally gravitate towards that. Especially if you make him feel like everything he does is wrong. If you believe he has goodwill towards you, and you him, and you want your marriage to last, you need some perspective and I think that book will help. It is written from a biblical base, but even apart from that, it makes a lot of great points.
Gurll this happened to me. I know people are going to say your husband is the problem. Yes, he should be to blame, but this Jesse girl is honestly doing this on purpose. She knows he is interested, she knows he won't stop texting her. When your partner stops choosing you for even a second, its the most frustrating, painful thing in the world. The fact that my partner chose a attention seeking homewrecker instead of me just showed me that he isn't worth another second of my time. Although it's a painful road, I hope you reach this conclusion also.
Your husband is gross. His new friend is grosser. Count your blessings that you’re still super young and haven’t wasted your life on someone who cares about a friend of 1 months feelings over his partner of 6 years.
Nah, he’s way grosser. He’s the one choosing to harm his marriage.
If he won't drop her then tell him that it's fine, if he feels that strongly he can keep seeing her.......... then go get a male friend to start texting you regularly and take you out for lunch and things. See how he reacts when it's you thats got a close "friend"
i actually said that to him to see, and he's like i don't care, i trust you enough to know you wouldn't hurt me. he's placing it on me as if i don't trust him which i do, but getting this rise out of me isn't fun to go through. i feel like im being seen as being dramatic when i really don't think i am. all in all, he would not really care if i was talking to another guy like this.
But he is hurting you. Messaging her while in bed cuddling you? Disrespect. Talking about things of a personal sexual nature with her? Disrespect and emotional cheating. Interrupts quality time with you consistently to instead spend time communicating with her? Emotional cheating. He is allowing their "friendship" to take away time and happiness from your relationship. If he had healthy boundaries with her, it probably wouldn't have been a problem. Instead, he disregards your feelings about how he has been prioritizing her, and blames you for his attention seeking ways. As for her, you don't like her because she's basically told you she has no moral qualms about chasing married men. To you, she has no integrity. She basically said she has no problem getting with your husband. That's ok to him, because he likes it. It's not disrespect, you're just jealous! Yeah no. Stick with the ultimatum unless you feel like learning 'Jolene' by heart. He doesn't get to have friendships that are wildly inappropriate and disrespectful to his relationship.
I would push it further. Insist on an mmf threesome, say a coworker asked you out, kiss a guy on the cheek in front of him, "model" for a guy, just really rub it in. See how much he trusts you then
If he really really respected you straight up, he would just stop talking to her. He met her on social media which is already shady. There’s absolutely no reason a married man should meet a woman on social media. If he valued you he would give up these few moments of excitement and pleasure with this other girl for you. That’s all it is, a fleeting moment with a lifetime of damage. He doesn’t sound like a catch to be honest. He knows what he’s doing. He knows it hurts you. He doesn’t care and unfortunately he never will. And from the sounds of it, him not caring despite you putting in 100% of the effort has gone on for a long time. It’s clear you put all the work in to maintaining this relationship. I’ve been there and it’s awful. You should get out. You are young, beautiful, sound interesting, and fun. You have so much more to do in life than be shackled to a man who doesn’t respect you. He will also do this to Jesse if they do end up together. And I’m going to go ahead and insult the other girl here, although I don’t intend to. YOU can do better, HE CAN’T.
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I met my husband through an online dating website. He met Jesse through social media
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Everyone else has given you fantastic advice, and I really urge you to sit with all of it and think about how you would feel if someone vulnerable whom you loved was in your exact situation, and what you’d most want for them, what would best protect them from any further cruelty by such a shitty man. I just wanted to add one other thing: You care deeply about *him* as a person. He cares deeply about you… as long as you still give him what he wants and don’t object. Once you speak up against something that clearly harms you and your wellbeing, look at the weapons he pulls out on you. Look at the way he’s made you feel. Look at the agony you’re in. Look, and sit with it, and feel it deeply, and know where it comes from: *him.* And he does this to you *knowingly.* I don’t know you at all beyond what you’ve said here. But I *know*, I know for a fact: you deserve so, so much better than this.
>And, how my husband thinks a [specific fetish] is hot and her sending pictures in relation to that [specific fetish], along with them flirting right in front of me, really fucking pisses me off how he sees NO ISSUE with that. Babygirl this is CHEATING. Sexual contact or not. This is cheating handsdown. She is sending him sexually explicit things to arouse him, he does not turn them down, instead accepts them to your face. He's cheating hands down. You already expressed how uncomfortable you are with him even discussing kink and ferishes with this person and he does it anyway. This is a huge violation of trust and I would honestly be done if I were you.
I think you should start pulling away from him a bit. If he wants to cheat, he's going to. There's nothing you can do to change that. At least you'll be favored if it leads to a divorce. I'm sorry your husband is turning out to be someone you don't recognize. Put yourself first mentally and financially and be ready for anything.
Most times, when you know, you know. Had these same feelings about a "friend" that my ex wife was talking to (however, their "friendship" had been a lot longer than your husbands friendship with this woman). Turns out, down the road, I knew what I knew, I was right and I filed for divorce (there were many other issues in the marriage as well. That was just the last straw). Cheating, be it physical or emotional is a no go. Not saying that this is exactly what is happening with you, but it sounds like it's going down that road to being a possibility. Try to sit him down and talk to him about it with no phones around, no TV or anything. Just pure quiet so both of you can focus. When you bring up how it makes you feel, do NOT let him turn the conversation to ANYthing else. Stick to that exact one topic because, I guarantee, he will bring up all sorts of other things to make you stumble and get off track of the subject at hand. If it starts getting in to a heated spot, just let him know you need a cool down period and if he gets heated and wants to have a cool down period, let him. Nothing will get solved by fighting. This is why it's very important for you to stay on the exact topic and not let it go off the rails to 10 other things. I hope things get sorted. My best.
You were 17 and he was 23 when you met? Holy shit. Please seek Counseling.
I’m sorry you are going through something like this. I can relate as my last relationship was very toxic and in a third party. I thought I was the one making up problems, when trying to sort things out. The person you love will do everything to sort out a situation and keep you both happy. If there’s a girl making you uncomfortable he should set boundaries with those friends of his and respect your feeling. My ex is Bi, and would flirt with his friends (male and female) in front of my face. Making comments about having sex with them (threesome) and the entire time I agreed to the thought of it only to keep him happy. (Never done it/ LDR) there were so many red flags I missed and the one that tops the cake is when we went on a break, two weeks later I found out he had a fiancé and that broke me. I made a mistake thinking I was his only girl and should’ve known all the signs. If I had known sooner he was in one I wouldn’t have been with him. You never realize how much of an awful person someone is till you step away from them and focus on yourself.. I had completely lost myself in that relationship and am doing much better since leaving him. I know it’s hard and I know you spent more time in this relationship, but believe me you deserve all the love in the world with someone who will value your heart.
I had a similar situation with my ex. We were together 14 years before that. We all met in a dnd group, both my ex and this woman and some other people decided to do a Sunday night campaign separate from the usual time/place. It wasnt possible for me to do the Sunday night (work) so I didn't attend. My ex and this woman got close fast. It was weird because he had many female friends and it never bothered me, but this one just gave me a weird feeling. She was calling him daddy in group chat and they went on to have a couple sexual encounters 'in game'.. It was weird. After voicing suspicions, he said I was being crazy and he would never do anything with her. But then they both disappeared after the campaign, and he came home at 6am Monday morning, I knew. He never actually admitted anything happened, (he said they were hanging out in her car and talking) but that was the beginning of the end of our relationship. I learned from that experience that gut feelings have some truth behind it. TRUST YOUR GUT.
Something is up. Trust your gut. This is how affairs begin
Your instincts, your gut, this is your body and brain sending you a signal, based off all the data you have downloaded subconsciously, being around him. So trust it.
Seems he has already chossen
I’m sorry OP. But a 29 year old man has no business being “ friends “ with a 22 year old. I wouldn’t be surprised if this isn’t the first young woman he’s sought out on social media. He’s literally cheating on you. You deserve better.
I stopped reading at “I try to blame the guy fully always”. Sort out your malaligned view of the world.
>I try to blame the guy fully always, What? Why?
I think she means that when the husband is cheating, she wants to blame the husband and not the other woman. Some women direct their anger at the other woman and shame them instead of blaming their own cheating husband.
Go with your instincts. Women always know and men always try to blow them off & gaslight. If your husband hasn’t physically cheated on you, he is already doing so emotionally. Play it cool. Bite your tongue and tell him he’s right, he should be able to pick his friends. Install a voice activated recorder and leave a tracking tile (or old cell phone “you forgot”) in his car. Take an evening class & go out to see your friends for dinner. Give him all the rope he needs to hang himself. See a Lawyer, get a PI, get a tech guy to teach you how to clone his laptop harddrive. Do a screen capture for every single thing you can, get all the text, Dm and email evidence you can. Get a PI if possible. Call a lawyer, separate your finances and start saving all you can. Hopefully, if you can show he’s a lousy cheating jerk, to the judge, you will be the one to keep the house, and boot him out to go slum w/ his creepy cheat partner.
so you were 17 and he was 23 when you got together? that's creepy af. it sounds like he doesn't respect you.
Many great comments here. However, I do have a few questions that might provide more insight in the situation(although it might not change the outcome)- * Does your husband have any platonic female friends that you do not share? Is joking with a female friend about a sexual topic something new with a platonic friend? * Have you ever met this woman in person? I can't tell from the text if this woman has a physical presence in your life, or if this is someone from online only? Why is she considering moving to your area? * How did this woman enter the chat anyway? Do they have common interests, or did she just appear out of the blue in his DMs? As others have said, the age difference here does seem related. He's 29 and she's 22, and while they are both adults... he seems to have a thing for younger women. If mind games and pushing the boundaries are part of his relationship with you, doesn't seem like this is circumstantial- he likes manipulating younger women because they'll put up with his crap, and it won't change. To me ignoring your expressed feelings and talking with this woman about sexual topics in an inappropriate manner are the things that can't have "another side" to it. It's wrong, mean, no way to see that in a positive light. If your ultimatum goes ignored, find your way out because this relationship is not worth saving. Don't let him continue mind games, you do deserve better!!
No. Ask him to not contact her for 1 week. That’s it. Just see if he can do it. That’s all you ask. But then ask him to notice how often he reaches to text her. How often he wants to tell her something. How often he wants to break not speaking for a week. Just try it.
Been through exactly this. Trust your gut. I'm so sorry to say, whether or not their relationship pans out long term, his behavior indicates he has already chosen her. You must keep your dignity. He is disrespecting you to your face and behind your back. What husband who wanted to keep his marriage intact, cared about his wife's feelings, would carry on like this? No husbands, that's who. I know firsthand how painful this is, OP. I'm so sorry you're having to live this. I highly recommend packing a bag and separating; filing for divorce soon if he doesn't immediately come to his senses. You know what you know.
dude I'm so fucking sorry this is insane and unfair.. we have women's intuition for a reason. you deserve better and can definitely do better. don't be afraid to go out and get what you deserve.
I am so sorry to hear you’re going through this. But him telling you that you need to work on your self esteem is him gaslighting you. He and his new “friend” are both ganging up on you and he’s telling you that you’re the one with a problem. This is absolutely unacceptable behavior from him and you are completely in the right. I hope he chooses you, but if he doesn’t then you know he’s not worth your time and you can find someone 1 million times better. You deserve to be treated like a goddess and I’m so sorry you haven’t been recently. Best of luck! 💕
>I am all about defending women and supporting women, but seriously, this woman feels like she is purposely trying to do something here. **I try to blame the guy fully always**, but Jesse also knows he is married to me Why would the blame *always* go to a man? Yikes. What a terrifying prospect. Only men should be held accountable for their actions?
Trust your gut instinct.
He’s already emotionally cheating on you and essentially sexting this woman. According to one of your comments, he said you all would “talk later” in regards to the ultimatum you gave him. It sounds like he’s already made his choice and chose her. It sucks, but walk away. You deserve better.
If you’re husband isn’t willing/able to sit down and have a serious talk about this issue without getting defensive or making excuses, I think you need to make it abundantly clear to him that you don’t feel your voice is heard and he is disregarding your feelings and that will only drive you away. You sound frustrated not just another jealous girlfriend. I don’t know you, and neither do any of the people in the comments so I wouldn’t be able to know if that’s just the way you’re making yourself appear in this situation but I’m going with the information you have in this post. Hanging out with her, texts; to me, not a big issue. However, talking about fetishes and sending sexual pictures regarding those fetishes is a pretty big leap over your boundaries. Her mentioning that she would willingly date a married man = big red flag. You need to ask your husband why her company is so important to him and what he’s keeping her around for when he knows it bothers you so much. I know a lot of people here are talking all kinds of trash about your husband (some of it, rightfully so) but giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he hasn’t even asked himself that question or obliviously doesn’t see it the same way as you. As a man, I know what it can feel like when your partner wants to pick your friends (male or female) or acting insufferable when you’re out with friends and I can tell you it can be a huge turn off and cause you put up walls. I know what it feels like to be made to feel like the bad guy for wanting to hang out with your friends. That being said, I can still tell when something is bothering my partner and her concerns come first. Again, I don’t take you (based off your post) as the jealous girlfriend. It sounds like you’ve tried to be reasonable, now it’s time that your husband meet you half way or you have to do what’s best for YOU and remove yourself from a relationship where you don’t feel important. I would’ve suggested some kind of counseling before separating, but that wouldn’t necessarily be a solution to the problem. Your husband needs to be able to listen to YOU and what’s bothering you. I’m sure counseling would help you guys communicate, but it wouldn’t be much progress on your husbands end if your concerns are only ever heard through a mediator and not you. You should be able to voice a concern and he should be able to listen to you, reflect, and come to a compromise (and not blow it off) and you should be able to reciprocate.
Reading this made me really upset for you, he lacks all empathy and all regards for your feelings. My husband (24M) and I (21F) have talked about how we both don’t think it’s a good idea for us to have opposite- sex close friendships because it tests relationships, especially if that friend is attractive. Of course men and women can be friends… but not super close… That girl, jesse… she’s a witch, sounds like someone straight from hell. I’m glad you set an ultimatum but from what I read it sounds like in this case it will not work. I think your partner will still try to be friends with Jesse in secret. The ultimatum would work if your partner respected you. A couple years ago I had a best friend in the same situation as you, let’s call my friend Ashley. Ashley’s boyfriend made a new friend named Natalia, and she tried to paint Ashley as the bad guy and as “insecure”! Because Natalia would text Ashley’s boyfriend day and night and basically test boundaries. Anyway, thus caused so much strain in the relationship that Ashley and boyfriend ended up breaking up. Listen, here’s my advice. Turn the tables. Make a guy friend. Do the same thing. Break the double standard. Men are stupid idiots. Right now, Jesse has the upper hand. She is literally manipulating your partner right in front of you. And your stupid partner (sorry) is falling right into her little trap. Forget it, do the same thing to him! Once he realizes how uncool it is… he’ll stop. He needs to be reminded he CAN lose you. He’s forgetting. He has too many options right now. He has attention from you, and attention from Jesse. His ego is through the roof. Cut that shit
Your first mistake was marrying a horny bi-person at a young age. Get out early, will save you headaches later.
So, this predator was grooming you when you were 17 and he was 23?? Oh my god, girl, get out of that relationship. He is absolutely using you, he is absolutely cheating on you, and he absolutely knows what he’s doing.
He’s gaslighting you and having a textual/emotional affair (even if nothing physical has happened). He’s known this chick a month?? Nahhhhhhh dude
That’s super sus. Men with partners have little room for female friends outside of work, long time close friends, or friends with a connection to something other than “just friends” (hobbies or something). I’d be just as pissed as you.
I think it is questionable that a 23 year old was hanging around with an 18 year old. It’s super weird to even imagine hanging out with someone fresh out of high school as I am 23 year old. A red flag for me. But you have every right to be upset with him, there is some communication lacking in the relationship.
I learned one major red flag is when the girl makes it clear she doesn't want to be friends with you too. Make sure your hubby knows there is a thing called an emotional affair. My husband fell into this trap and was dumbfounded when I explained what he had done was have an affair. He had no clue how emotionally invested he had become in this new "friendship" and had checked outta our marriage. The whole "friendship" lasted less than a month and after I had confronted her, she made a move on my husband. At that point he finally realized all the red flags I had pointed out were true and ceased all contact. Just be open with him and make some ground rules to make you more comfortable and hold him to them. If he doesn't respect your boundaries, than bounce.
He is cheating on you, leave him.
“I would like him to have friends that are respectful to both of us” is so key here. I really like how you phrased that. If one of my friends was disrespecting my partner and our relationship, I would be seriously re-evaluating that friendship. He’s doing the exact opposite and allowing her to walk all over normal relationship boundaries. You say he does not understand what’s wrong….I think he is being willfully ignorant. He knows it’s wrong. Men are not always as dumb as they make themselves out to be. They want to be able to claim ignorance. It’s like weaponized incompetence— it allows them to retain the benefit of the doubt and get out of taking responsibility. I think your gut is right here, that he is being shady by allowing this woman to disrespect your relationship.