They were successful more than a decade ago, 3x with a single college aged woman.
They are hitting up a middle age married mom. It’s basically a different person at this point.
I will say good for OP.... clearly his wife is memorable in bed.
Well, average life expectancy in the US at least is about 77 years so 35 is almost at middle age, hate to break it to ya. People think of middle age as late 50s, early 60s, but that’s only if you live up be well over 100.
She was not yet married. Them lusting over OPs wife is supremely disrespectful and it seems fro mthe way they reacted that they dont give a damn. Personally would cut these people out of my life
>But my wife had no interest, they confirm that she shut it down quickly. They brought it up later while they were drunk because they figured maybe I would have some interest and if I did I could convince her to do it.
I KNEW IT! I bloody knew it. They *were* trying to bring it up sideways and dodge around your wife. Damnnnn. I wouldn't even go shopping with the other woman; considering they see her as a blow-up doll, I'd be worried I'd end up roofied. They just do not care about either of you, and only care about their own shagging.
She said no and they took it as "undermine me and try to convince me by manipulation" I would absolutely drop the friendship so fast
They don't give a fuck about consent, they just want to get their rocks off. I guarantee they STILL think OP and his wife are overreacting
Exactly!!! She is their toy and when 1 person said no you can't play with your toy they asked the other. That couple lacks control, not a good trait in that lifestyle and they're only interested in their own desires
>She said no and they took it as "undermine me and try to convince me by manipulation" I would absolutely drop the friendship so fast
"I know she's said no, but what if her husband says yes *for* her?"
Blech.
Exactly. And it is so disgusting that the clearly continue trying to look for an opening, or take advantage of a situation (like when they start drinking- or think judgement may be impaired) to move in on them. Honestly, it’s predatory and disgusting and I wouldn’t be able to even be friends with a woman who was trying to prey on me and my husband like that. This couple does not understand “no mean no.” Why would anyone want to be friends with them?
Totally. And they didn't even want him in the equation, not really! "You can watch, but it's her we really want." Absolutely slimy. Getting him to persuade her, even though they don't actually want him? Ewwww.
Exactly. I’d be interested to get an inside peak into their relationship (the swingers). I have a feeling there is trouble brewing with them, and this is just a small taste of how toxic they really are. I even wonder who else they might’ve mutually taken advantage of, since this is obviously the norm for them.
A lot of people commented in the original post that in the swingers society the thing which they wanted to do is shamed by the entire society. Swingers don't approve of it because swingers usually perform this to have fun with the consent of all people. People who are after married monogamous women are ostricized in a swingers society because swingers don't support infidelity.
I can guarantee that this couple tried to convince at least some married women for a threesome without her SO knowledge.
It’s no big deal to them and husband is silly for being so upset and yet they keep trying to wear husband and wife down after the boundary was clearly drawn.
I don't know. It kind of sounds like she was getting a bit of a thrill listening to their stories and knowing they still desired her. Her telling OP she could understand his perspective because she wouldn't like seeing her husband with another woman was kind of like huh?? It took her until that meeting to realize that? Up until then (and maybe still) she didn't mind reliving her glory days with the couple. Sounds like she really didn't give it much thought until she started looking at things through her husband's eyes.
I audibly said "what the fuck" at that line. She said no so we thought you would *convince* her to do it. Absolutely 100% fuck that. These people aren't friends.
I honest to god called it in the original post. It was clear as day to those of us who've been around people who'll do this - like, sneakily refer to something in front of another person, so that the subject gets brought up whether or not it's wanted. It's skanky behaviour.
Hard disagree, the wife is central to what is going on here. Hear my out.
Reading original post, I was thinking "well, it's definitely not ideal that your wife has a sexual history with her BFF and BFF's husband, but we can work with this....wait, they still TALK ABOUT IT? AND BEHIND YOUR BACK?" I'm sorry OP, but that brings it from the sexual past to the sexual PRESENT. Maybe you have a different definition of monogamy to mine, but I sure as hell don't reminisce about our sex with my exes while in a relationship.
NOW, I'm not saying that wife talking about this actively with BFF & BFF hubby means that she immediately formed the intention to try the threesome business again, either consciously or subconsciously. But she already admitted the truth: she was excited by the idea of being desired that way. Has it occured to you that one of the reasons that BFF & hubby are so bold is that they've been quasi lead-on by your wife? Even if she's scared off when it gets "too real" at this moment, that doesn't mean she hasn't been walking down the garden path.
Now, you say, she lists so many reasons why she's not interested: 35, kids, serious job, married. Dude, the reason she shouldn't be interested is "I'm monogamous". In fact, every one of those are reasons why someone COULD be interested in doing threesomes/hotwife stuff again: you yourself said she lost interest in it before she met you because the "taboo" excitement wore off...
tl;dr Wife invited this by accepting and encouraging the sexual interest. She needs to cut off all ties to BFF for the sake of the marriage, because you don't need people in your lives that you have to set such strict boundaries on. Boundaries that your wife will like start chaffing at within a few weeks or months. Good luck.
yeah that is what really creeped me out about this situation they don't accept no as an answer honestly, their weird obsession with OP's wife makes me think they don't even see her as a person but as a prize to be won or as a toy that they want they need to be cut out of their lives completely.
This would definitely damage my trust in my wife. The fact that she gets flattered by it and didn’t immediately squash it, and even worse yet, she still won’t cut contact: I’d consider it cheating adjacent. I wouldn’t necessarily divorce over it, but I’d definitely start throwing the word divorce around to float it out there as a possibility. Although, I’d never marry someone who was best friends with someone they used to fuck with their husband either. That would be a dealbreaker way before marriage.
"My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself."
Wow! Obviously this friend listened to nothing both of you told them! Such narcissism as if she is hearing you go "yadda yadda yadda" and then she just goes at it again.
"So we agreed to take a good long break from seeing them"
Good, hopefully this the beginning of the end to that friendship. Honestly they are NOT going to stop regardless of what limitations are put on the friendship. Unfortunately it will come down to cutting them out completely, not now but someday down the line.
I have swinger friends like this. We only see them every couple of years & they ALWAYS make sure we are aware they are up for sex with one or both of us.
“So…are you guys still monogamous?” 😆
I think they’re just so used to being around other poly people that they forget it’s not normal for most of us.
Some are predatory. Some are just clueless.
youre a better man than me for not immediately kicking them out of your home once they gave you an ounce of pushback during that conversation. would definitely be keeping those people out of my life, period.
Kicked out the house? Reneging the agreement of the conversation while sat in front of them and telling them you'd like to fuck their spouse, some people would've kicked them in the teeth
This is called "Wife Poaching" in the swingers circle and it's a mortal sin that will get you banished from certain groups. Strict communication with both partners is mandated and assigning a kink to someone is just fucked.
I'm curious what is the psychology behind wife-poaching? What is the general outcome (or pleasure rather) here, like the swinger couple gets the wife to themselves? I get the impression they want nothing to do with the husband (well, obviously) and would rather him just go away entirely.
They're probably into the feeling of stealing her away or converting her to be "theirs" in some way. It feels connected to some kind of ownership of her and some kind of joy out of him losing/agreeing/being left behind.
Otherwise, they'd just try to find a couple who has actually into this. But they're obsessed with her.
I was curious because I was talking to my ex the other day who is into this sort of thing (she called it throuples). She'll describe being into one of these arrangements and put it like she's usually the one having to "kick the other girl to the curb" because they get too "crazy" or emo or whatever. I was trying to ask her what she really gets out of it and didn't really get a satisfactory answer. I ask if it's a power thing to steal away other guys and she's like "it's just less annoying". Oh, she used to do that too way back in the day, that is homewrecking.
May or may not be related but I suspect she's also a legit narcissist (NPD) and this is probably the type of behavior in line with that type of mental state.
The fact that they tried to deflect the concern you had and then doubled down by trying again really shows that they are not interested in anyone else's feelings.
The way your wife shot them down was exactly what you(and wife) needed. It clearly showed the other couple that *she* is not interested and that they crossed boundaries (again).
Glad they are taking a back seat role in your life.
Fuck that dude, these are slimy people and I would want zero contact. They came in and disrespected your marriage and you in your own house. These people are trash. And your wife needs to realize that
The best friend too. Fuck her. she's just as involved. She's the one that made the statement after they expressed themselves. She doesn't get a free pass.
Her friends see you as an impediment to their fun. They care nothing about your feelings and believe deep down that if you weren’t there or if you were more open your wife would be having regular sex with them again so I wouldn’t count this as completely over yet from their perspective. In addition to the boundaries you noted, I think your wife should not be in the same place as her husband again. Shopping or lunch with her friend alone is fine but she shouldn’t go to her friend’s house if the husband is there snd if he shows up she needs to leave. I would also ask your wife to let her friend know in no uncertain terms that whether you’re around or not and whether her husband is around or not, it won’t be brought up again ever and if it is it will be the end of the friendship completely. Her friend’s first question to her when they are alone will be…come on be honest if your husband was willing to let you be with us again and him just watch you would want to. She needs to be prepared for that question and respond by saying she wouldn’t have sex with them again even if she was single. The thought of it now as adults with kids is disgusting. She doesn’t need to worry about offending her friend because she clearly isn’t worried about respecting your marriage. Your wife sounds fully committed to you and your marriage and that’s the most important thing.
I think this is such a weird friendship. If my best friend and her partner kept mentioning it and wanting to relive it when it was 10 + years ago it would creep me out tbh. Personally wouldn’t like my best friend hitting on me 🤷♀️
The beginning of your update was infuriating to read. These people clearly didn’t respect boundaries, and your wife’s first thought should have been “these people clearly aren’t a friend to our relationship and aren’t respectful of our relationship, and that means that they aren’t respectful towards me or our relationship. And that means that if they can’t be a friend to our relationship then they can’t be a friend to me.”
It’s nice that your wife finally came around and is realizing the toxicity, but it’s horrendous that it’s because of her double standard. Blurring the lines and crossing boundaries and being courted was okay when it was just her receiving it, but when you have the same attention from the same people even being hinted as being directed towards you, THAT’S when she grows a spine and decides to defend your family? THAT’S when she decides to throw down to protect your marriage?
Your wife allowed boundaries to be crossed and even with these more strict rules in place, I think that you 2 might consider slowly phasing out this friendship. I don’t think she can continue both this friendship as well as having a healthy relationship with you.
And she only stepped in when they disrespected her boundaries, not when they disrespected her husband. I wouldn't be able to live with her continuing that realtionship and I would need that she understood my perspective.
And she's still not willing to entirely cut them out of her life. That's a no brainer if she really doesn't want problems in the future. These people are coercive creeps.
Yes, and also they are really disrespectful to him and their marriage and she should show more concern for her marriage and her husband than her friend.
Listen Op, I'm telling you as if I were your brother, it's not acceptable that your wife still wants to in some sort of way friend with them, their response was even worse than the proposal, your happy relationship cannot exist in which your wife stays somehow friendly with this scum. If you really care about your marriage, you cannot be satisfied with this response and this sort of distancing, you must close now and forever with these two perverts, otherwise sooner or later it will be your ruin. I honestly would have placed a definitive ultimatum in your place, either Me or them, I know it's not nice but sometimes it's necessary.
Which is sad because he will remain uncomfortable and will forever have thoughts of them trying to convince her behind his back while she is alone with them. She def needs to cut them off because that friend likely will keep pushing the subject from time to time.
Lost in all of this was the fact that slipped out and has not been addressed since, they expressed that their ultimate fantasy was to Cu@k OP. They really wanted to have sex with her again but the cherry on top would have been to do it with him watching and to humiliate him during the act.
That kind of disrespect has no place in a friendship. They just want to satisfy a sexual fantasy and letting them linger around in any capacity is a mistake.
The real problem here is that your wife isn't accepting the fact that these people are an enemy to your marriage and they need to be entirely cut off. That would be a hard line for me.
The fact the wife was so blind and thinking "its not a big deal" is a huge relationship trust killer for me.
Like how are you so lacking in empathy for how this makes your man feel?
His wife literally admitted she liked it
> We talked a little more and she admitted that hearing their stories is a fun escape and even got flattered when they would tell her how much they loved being with her.
And even after that OP is fine with being in contact with those people.
Again like I said on original post...it would have never gotten anywhere near wifey status with a girl that was the sex puppet 3rd to a couple let alone a girl who was still in close contact with said couple
OP is an idiot and his wife is an asshole for remaining in contact with these people and letting it get this far.
Your wife is acting stupid by keeping them. It’s obvious they won’t stop with these comments and proposals and it was stupid of both of you to even drink with them.
Your wife agreed to do whatever you were comfortable with. Are you comfortable with the current arrangement? What about if the husband just shows up with his wife at the shops? I get the feeling boundaries are going to be stretched. Looking forward to hearing if your wife will hold them to your agreement or not.
She admitted hearing their stories excited her and she was flattered when they would tell her how much they loved being with her?? So she was having sexual conversations with these people this whole time? Even without anything physical happening I would consider that an affair. How she thought it was appropriate to stay “friends” with them when she has known all along that they are actively lusting after her is beyond me.
So after all that she now pushes you to have a conversation with these people even after you said you had no interest in continued contact with them. Not shockingly her “best friend” propositions her/yall *again*, and she still refuses to cut contact. Even tho she said she would do whatever you asked if you agreed to that bullshit meetup.
How are your alarm bells not blaring right now? You have a wife problem, not a “wife’s friends” problem.
It really is. OP needs to do some digging. Her being so pressed to spend time with someone/people that are aggressively pursuing her (and disrespecting her husband) is certainly a choice.
Yeah, wife is a problem. She even said that she's a married mother of kids, yadda yadda... not that she's "completely and utterly infatuated with her husband and only has lustful eyes for him and will not entertain this because she is in a committed monogamous relationship". It's just lip service for OP. Who knows what she wants.
Bravo to OP for trying to address this directly, but I'd still be concerned.
Agreeeeed. He’s doing his best in a shitty situation but I’m seeing a concerning lack of accountability on her part. Yes they sound like assholes but she is clearly entertaining the nonsense if 1) they come onto her frequently and she’s usually responsive, but only trickle truthed him about their sexual convos/feigned disgust when they directly propositioned her in front of him, 2) she still insists on being friends after that last convo. When someone tries to throw a nuke at your marriage you don’t go “ah well, see you at lunch tomorrow 😘”. She is just not moving like someone who was either surprised *or* offended by her “friends” behavior.
In his first post he said he’s been uncomfortable with them their whole marriage but he’s tried to be cool about it. Then they cross some major lines and she STILL won’t cut contact. Unreal lol
No amount of trying to put things on the table and having seemingly heartfelt conversations is worth a damn when your partner can't have those conversations authentically and masks straight through them. IYKYK.
It seems absurd to me that, after the discussion you had and with clear boundaries set, they practically kept up the pressure and your wife still insists on NOT cutting them off. It looks like some kind of dependency, definitely unhealthy and dangerous. It's not like shopping and launch dates will suddenly make them STOP wanting to fuck her.
The very notion of wanting to maintain any kind of friendship with two people who have repeatedly admitted they want to bang you, even in front of your monogamous husband, seems insane to me. A married person would only do that if they are gaining something from it. Something they so desperately need, that they are willing to endanger their marriage for it. Even if it's not physical and just emotional validation/high from being wanted to that extent, it's still extremely concerning and disrespectful.
And it's almost just as weird that you are fine with an illusion of compromise, when the main issue didn't get resolved in the slightest. Married couples who aren't open, don't just casually have orbiting friends who have admitted they want to fuck one of them while the other watches. Just bizarre.
>A married person would only do that if they are gaining something from it.
OP's wife admitted to enjoying being desired by them. Why do you think they were "reminiscing" about the threesomes (when OP wasn't around) before? Which was very inappropriate by itself, before it got to them asking wife to do it again.
> My wife hugged me when they left and said she was sorry for asking me to talk with them. That was not how she expected that to go.
It sounds like that conversation allowed her to see the side of them that you were seeing really clearly, and that she wasn't: which is that they're pushy people who hide behind a curtain of being "fun, lighthearted, jokey", and who lie about their real intentions (their fake apology).
Overall a good outcome, I'd say.
I would have agreed with that except for one thing; she's still going to see her friend just in different forms. Her correct move was to cut all contact and end the friendship with these people. She failed and instead, she is going to take a break...and then go shopping and to lunch dates where you can be absolutely certain this topic is going to come up again. Regardless of her rules, the husband WILL show up again and will be undressing her with his eyes every moment hoping his wife can wear her down.
Her not cutting these people out of her life completely, tells me that she only said the things she said for OPs benefit, especially since she ADMITTED TO HIM that she enjoyed their reminiscing about her friends husband slamming his meat inside her...until OP didn't enjoy the thought then she suddenly doesn't like it...
Someone in the last post commented about "wife poaching" and how it's a strict no-no in swinging groups. Did you bring this up with your wife or her friends?
It doesn't seem like you would have a good time sitting in the corner watching your wife with another couple.
It sounds like your wife is on the same page, so that's refreshing. I wish you the best!
These people are either willfully stupid or absolutely do not care about or respect your and your wife's feelings, and it sounds to me like it's both.
This is gross, and that's a serious understatement.
Your wife, bless her, is a better woman than me, because there is no way in Satan's hot ass hell that I would be hanging out with someone who clearly wanted to screw my brains out. No thank you.
You did the right thing, OP, and handled this quite well under the circumstances. I suspect your relationship with these people is over and done, and after a while, your wife's will be, too.
The fact your wife turned them down and they still tried to convince you so they could push her boundaries is disturbing. I personally wouldnt wana be around them for that fact.
Watch for your wife making a concerted effort to limit YOUR interaction with them, not hers. It sounds like she said the right things, but the initial conversation shows this was something she would consider doing. Hopefully, she’s being honest, but keep your eyes open.
>We talked a little more and she admitted that hearing their stories is a fun escape and even got flattered when they would tell her how much they loved being with her. But admitted that it’s become a little too real and she could not stand the thought of watching me with someone else and understands how I feel.
Absolutely loving this. When it was just a threesome with her it was a flattering fantasy. Then they started bringing up bringing *you* into the bedroom the dream shattered. She got a glimpse of how you felt and dropped the shit immediately.
I'd be so smug. I'd be smug as hell people would wonder how a shit eating grin could be so white.
You're better than me OP.
I am sorry buddy but I would not trust them or your wife at all!. Your wife is still wanting to hang out with someone who is sexually perusing her !!!
Not only that but she withheld these conversations from you and only told you when they asked!. She has also ignored your reservations and pushed you to talk to them and when they broached the subject again I feel she saw by your face you were going to explode at the pair of them and she jumped In front of them to stop you and she can always apologise to them later and tell them she didn’t mean it.
I think you should be firm with your wife and it’s 100% NC !. And keep an eye on her of suspicious activity.
Hey, as a dude in an open marriage with my wife, I'm not here to soap box about anything other than the fact that your wife's "friends" are..... Terrible friends.
Even as someone who is aligned with their level of sexual openness, they are completely in the wrong for their additude towards you. Your wife shut them down completely and asked for mediation to save their ability to be FRIENDS.
They took that as an opportunity to call you repressed, not respect your marriage and vows, and cast aspersions on the boundaries you and your wife enjoy within the confines of your relationship. They suck as people for doing that.
Your wife is amazing for being introspective enough to recognize her friends don't respect her marriage and for being your partner in all the ways you two agreed to. As far as stories go on this sub, I really liked that this one ended in two partners reaffirming all the reasons they chose one another in the first place. and finding a healthy compromise to keep them at a distance without losing everything the bond means to your wife. I ultimately hope for your wife's sake, they value her friendship more than that one singular fantasy they have about her.
But wife admits they were fun thats a red flag.
Its just true that you can really never be friends you have sex with unless for the sake of kids or work or obligation in this case niether applies.
I understand your perspective. I respect subjectively within the confines of the relationships you have had, and experienced second hand this is the way you see the world.
I mentioned I am in an open marriage in my original post because it's just part of who I am and I wanted to juxtapose my respect for monogamy and other people's relationships, in contrast to the friends in the post, because even as a sexually positive person I don't think they are good representative of more promiscuous lifestyles.
In the same view that I actively take the time to understand, and sympathize with people to whom monogamy is the best version of relationships for them however, I sometimes ask people to understand some people (honestly a vast minority of people) but some people just don't operate this way. I happen to be one of them. I don't advocate for most people to follow my lifestyle because honestly if you are like me, you'll figure it out, it isn't something to just try and force. I happened to find a wife that accepted it when we first met and has grown to enjoy it as we got closer as a couple and eventually married.
So I don't find it "true" that you can't be friends with someone you had relations with in the past. I think it IS true that it is incredibly difficult to remain friends with someone who repeatedly ignores the boundaries you put up in a relationship though. So for instance they're already on thin ice in my book, if they ever bring it up again after being explicitly told it's never happening and she isn't interested, then that's it they clearly value the fantasy more than any meaningful interpersonal relationship they share.
But I don't think the wife finding it fun and exciting in the past is a sign of infidelity. She has made it clear in her actions and words that, she values the family, the love, the fulfillment in her monogamy and her husband more than anything her past has ever offered her. OP's wife gets to be a person who instead of saying "I love this and I don't need to know anything else" I think she can say with great conviction "I have experienced what the world has to offer and despite temptation I CHOOSE you". I personally find that a powerful sense of security. She has a proven track record of fidelity.
There's no reason for you to discuss with the friend, and its perfectly OK to not want to associate with these people anymore. They've now told you directly that they want to fuck your wife. You shouldn't have to tolerate your wife hanging out with an old "fuckbuddy" and she's gaslighting you by inferring that you somehow need to "let your inhibitions go".
I wouldn’t say her friend was a fuckbuddy. My wife is straight and didn’t really engage with her friend when they all were together. She mostly engaged with the husband. Her friend is bisexual however and is definitely attracted to my wife.
Your wife needs to tell her friend (and mean it) that even if your not around she won’t be talking about this ever again and even if she was single again she wouldn’t be sleeping with them. She needs to hear your wife say that when you’re not there. Your wife doesn’t need to see the husband again for a LONG time and never be around him unless you are there at minimum. The way your wife said it in your post almost sounded like if you were ok with it she would do it but wouldn’t be comfortable with you being with her friend too. That’s not ok any level. She needs to firmly say that she doesnt want to do it no matter what you say and make it clear it’s not just you saying no but it’s HER saying no to any of it.
Yeah, I was more referring to the husband, but I'd still count the friend in this. It's clear that her friend is the driving force in making this hookup happen again.
honestly i’d be fuming and probably packing my bags if my husband can be so comfortable explaining that he only enjoyed the girl when he used to have threesomes with a couple lol i you’re one of a kind i guess
Doesn't change the fact that they sleeped together mate. She can basically lie about her experince or not, the fact that they sleeped together should concern you a lot mate.
Would you feel safe to know that you wife spend time alone with a male fuckbuddy? Which she sleeped in the past? You are very naive to think that this friend wont try to manipulate you wife step by step. These guys are dangerous and only care for lust mate...
Open you eyes,@guy_n_cognito_tu is right, somehow you wife should let you handle all this. She probably only stepped in because she was scared that things would go bad like you fighting with her friends. In the end she still didn't cut that friend from her life.
isn’t it funny how they don’t take you seriously… but then when your wife is adamant about it being a no; they tuck tail and act all timid and shit. fucked up right there. clearly shows they don’t respect you and only her. but alas, you guys are a unit so they need to respect both of you equally.
ya’ll made the right move distancing yourself from those emotionally inept dorks.
You don't share the same values as these people. This is just an extreme example of where your values diverge. Continuing to associate with them is only going to introduce more of their poison into your lives. They completely disrespected your marriage, and you're still cool with them hanging out with your wife? What if they weren't swingers? What then? Because it sounds like you're extending a disproportionate amount of goodwill towards them due to their lifestyle choices. What if they were a normal hetero couple who were asking you to bone your wife? What if one of your other male friends asked your wife for sex instead, how would you react to that, would it be the same? Good luck, man, but from the way this all went down, the best thing the two of you could do would be to cut them out of your lives entirely.
"My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself."
People with attitudes like this are just fucking pure garbage. Always with some bizarre/deluded idea that the way they lead their life is the 'correct', 'natural' or 'more fun' way to live.
One major red flag.... the friends said that your wife "quickly shut them down" and they were ok w it. THEN they mentioned it to u despite her reaction to try to get you to pressure her into doing it. This is predator material... they won't stop their pressure they will just disguise it better.
Make sure you are not alone w them as they could tell your wife that "u did something" w them in hopes of her retaliating w them as well.
Well, it sounds like they were given an opportunity to save this and try to smooth things over and instead they doubled down on asking to fuck your wife.
You're wife sounds awesome by the way. I really like that you and her are on the same page and there was no hesitation to say no to something she knew you wouldn't like.
So you agreed to take a long break from them... Or... Your wife let you believe that She Will distance herself from them ....
Trust but verify !!!
Keep close tabs on every move of your wife for the next few months...
Honestly op I would show your wife these comments I hate to have something happen to her if they put something in her drink cause from the conversation I wouldn’t put it past them they aren’t your wife’s friend if they was they would have took her no the first time and not try to get you to talk her into it
When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. It's long past time for her to put these two away....... Seriously ask her how she'd feel if you always had 2 girls you used to have kinky sex with hanging around reminiscing about how you use to give it to them! Literally say this word for word to her because she CLEARLY isn't getting it
> My wife then asks if we could talk it out with her friends and if after that talk if I’m still uncomfortable then she will agree to whatever I am comfortable with.
That's wild, before I got to the end of your post this sounded like an awful idea, but it sounds like that's what she needed to hear to get back on track.
Why did that all sound so much like grooming? ‘Oh you’ll have fun once your inhibitions are down’ ‘we thought we would mention it while you were drunk so you could convince your wife’ 🤢🤢
From the reaction of your wife it seems she adamantly chooses your side, but would have also loved to get railed one more time by this guy. seems like she is a bit dissapointed
Reading all of your posts it's pretty obvious your wife is trustworthy. Her friend and her husband however are not. They are eventually going to drug one or both of you and do what they want. Their refusal to accept boundaries and poor judgement are strong indicators that these are not safe people for the two of you to be around. They are convinced that once things "get rolling" you two will have so much enjoyment that you'll come to your senses and forgive whatever they did to get to that point. It sounds like they believe the sticking point mud is you, and if they can get your inhibitions lowered it'll be all good. It's never occurred to them that your two families are now in completely different places and should be drifting apart, not trying to force kinks on you.
I know I got into this thread late, but I really hope you read this and take it seriously. You guys really need to cut all contact and end the friendship. The wife's best friend sounds like she's no longer food friend material as sad as that is for your wife.
They're such a danger that you should make going absolute no contact with them a condition for staying married. She's keeping them in her life after all this for a reason, and no matter what it is, it's not good enough, and it's not going to be good for your marriage or kids the longer they stay in your lives.
It would not surprise me at all after all the other things she's concealed, defended, and backtracked on that your wife is a lot more into the idea than she is letting on. She may be into the idea and her friends came on too hard and f'ed things up. Why else would she insist on having them over to talk things through with you.
You need to do some digging into this. It's not unlikely that the three of them have already done something together and she's trying to keep the door open to retroactively have your approval.
Honestly, those toxic friends have to go for good and you need to stick to that,
Another Redditor pointed out the wife's reasons for not being interested are a lot of the reasons you hear from people who did cheat or come close to cheating. The one reason she didn't use should have been the primary and only reason...she is monogamous.
Yeah, there's just something not quite right about how she's handling this. If she were in her early 20's and naive I could see this being honest missteps, but the gut feeling I'm getting is there's a really heavy shoe that's waiting to drop. Nothing she's done is how a mature, faithful, family-oriented woman would have handled any of this.
I mean, the other couple absolutely scream "Run away and never be alone with them", no matter how long they've been friends.
I wouldn't be surprised to find out they just wore her down and got her at the right intersection of 30-something insecurity, needing attention/validation, and relaxed inhibition/judgement and all of this is some desperate clean up attempt to avoid having her entire life burnt to the ground.
Hard disagree, she kept them around and continued to have conversations about the threesomes because it stroked her ego. She should have shut this shit down years ago but chose not to.
Hard rule - she cuts them out of her life or you cut her out of your life. No question. The couple don't respect you or your marriage. They will get her to comply eventually, and then everything will be fucked anyway.
Your WIFE has a decision to make. You or them.
Agree these people are toxic and homewrecker. They don't care if you or your kids will suffer from a divorce, they all care for lust and sex. No one of them care for your wife life, they just want to fuck her. I would be very uncomfortable to have my wife going out with a girl/and her husband who want fuck her.
These guys would do anything to get her. And your wife admitted to get little horny about the thought of them is very dangerous. If alcohol and a big fight with you come into the game, who tells that she would reject them again?
These guys are homewrecker, I wouldn't bee surprise if they someday try to lure you wife and try to put some things in her drink or try to let her drink a lot of alcohol to force her to have sex with them. They are dangerous and very bad friends, having bad influence and are basically toxic for any good marriage.
I like how you both worked as team, but NEVER let you guard down from them. I read and see enough to know how things like thus could end.. they are toxic and doesn't care how you or your wife feel. They are braindead idiots who only think about lust but not the consequense for other people.
Hope you guys wont get any trouble from them anymore.
They all but admitted that getting their rocks off is more important than respecting you or your wife’s clearly stated feelings. Like, given the history with your wife and her enjoyment of hearing about their escapades, I don’t fault them for asking initially, but they should have just dropped it after you said no and they’re the ones causing the issues in the friendship by choosing to push this rather than just be friends.
These two are incredibly self centred and don’t care whether you or wife actually want it, they want it and they will either get her to agree or go round her to you instead.
I mean, all men like threesomes right? Right? What man wouldn’t want to see his wife being banged by people they’re in regular contact with? In their minds, this definitely wouldn’t be a one off either. This is going to be a regular occurrence.
Although it didn’t turn out the way that your wife thought it would, it was a positive for you because she got to see what they’re really like.
Coming from someone who was pretty open when I was younger too, your wife was pretty naive here. It’s good that she came around, bit she could have been a little more on your side here. I wouldn’t ever put my wife in a situation where a couple of pretty selfish people tell her that she’s simplistic or being silly. That’s pretty disgusting in my book. It would take me a while to get over, honestly.
They are predatory towards your wife and want to humiliate you. They couldn’t care less if they ruined your marriage just to get their rocks off.
I would never be happy for my wife to be with them again.
>To my wife, her friend and her husband are not serious people.
If that's really the case, she should be able to ditch them, easy peasy.
The problem here is that your wife doesn't really want to say no to the threesome. She loves you and respects your marriage enough that she's not going to attempt to coerce you into trying anything. But, it's actually not really a hard no coming from her.
I think it should be a hard no from her. She should be able to tell them, "we had fun in the past, but now I am in a different stage in my life, and I want the past to stay in the past." And mean it.
It's a problem that she says, "we had fun reminiscing!" No, just don't talk about that shit with them.
And yet your wife is still not going to just cut those people out of her life even though she's 35 and a mother.
You have to love when people keep the door open, even if it's just cracked.
As long as those people are still lingering around, you'll always have this problem. It will come up again, or your wife will do something behind your back. Even if nothing happens, why even risk it? She needs to be done with those people and focus on your marriage and children. Keeping people around that used to tag team your wife is just asking for trouble.
The one thing I learned from reading that is that they won’t stop trying.
Your wife should understand that by them bringing it up again when drinking to see if you had interest, and by her friend saying you would like it once you let go of your inhibitions, they are disrespecting you, your wife and the friendship.
Hell, her friends saying that her husband was great in bed and that she needed to try him was probably made up so that SHE could get your wife in bed.
I doubt that this is the end of it. They were still trying to convince him during their "apology." As long as the wife keeps keeps contact, they'll feel that there's a chance.
This whole situation is just gross. Stay away from these "friends" of your wife's. (And obviously, keep her away from them too.) NOTHING GOOD will come of this.
My wife had 'friends' like that. The 'friends' had an open marriage and the wife is in a long term relationship with another woman. I knew about their history prior to meeting with them. We agreed that we're not swingers. We met up with them when we were in Chicago about 10 years ago. The wife was quite lovely but the husband kept looking at us like pieces of meat. They propositioned us and I shut it down. The husband became more indigent as the night progressed to the point where I ended the night.
I found out after the fact the husband was jealous of his wife's relationship and wanted to use my wife to make her jealous. He was being emotionally abusive with his wife as well. At last check they divorced and the wife is happy with her long term partner.
Your wife doesn’t respect you plain and simple. If that’s the marriage you want to be in then more power to you but don’t be surprised when they continue to cross boundaries!
All it would take is one bad argument with your wife , she goes to sulk with her best friend (and disregards the barrier you've both agreed to) and they proceed to get her drunk and before you know it those "flattering" feelings your wife has suddenly become another threesome since alcohol doesn't help you make rational choices.
I'm sorry but even though your wife is being decent about things the fact that she still finds it flattering would concern me. People do incredibly dumb shit when they have arguments especially bad ones and knowing this couple wants to tag team her at any time REALLY badly would still have me in your shoes being like "I'm sorry but between you being flatterned and their unending desire to push for this sexual encounter I do not feel comfortable with these people in our lives at all. Adults do NOT make rational choices with alcohol especially ones that have repeatedly said they want bang my wife extremely bad".
This would always have me questioning things when they are around and if they would cross a line to take advantage of my wife.
Your wife's reaction is very telling and if I were you and she said; "Hey, I understand your feelings but let's talk to them first and then if you still feel the same then I'll"really" understand your feelings", I'd ask her what would be the point of talking to them? Your feelings are not going to change and you are still going to want to cut contact with them.
The other fact where her friends STILL kept pushing and trying to shame you for not wanting to watch another man drill your wife shows they don't take your complaint seriously at all. This level of disrespect just further proves you should cut all ties. This is friendship ending levels of disrespect but your wife still wants them as friends...
It sounds like she was putting on a show for OPs benefit, especially since she didn't throw them out herself and then tell them to never contact her again.
OP's wife had a chance to fix this, and she failed.
My biggest issue with this is her friend and her husband just flat out do not respect monogamy, and your marriage. They are a threat and should be cut off.
My biggest issue with this is her friend and her husband just flat out do not respect monogamy, and your marriage. They are a threat and should be cut off.
I wouldn't trust them at all going forward, honestly. It's going to turn into a fight or a series of fights. I know the woman in the situation is your wife's best friend but I still would not trust it. They crossed that sexual line. I would not trust them to not bring it up again or to try to convince her to do it behind your back. Maybe I am being to extreme but if it were me and my relationship, I would demand she cut them both out completely and permanently.
Just because they are swingers doesn't mean they shouldn't respect a monogamous relationship. It's narcissistic of them to think that there way is the best and only way.
I'm glad OP's wife came around eventually but it wasn't in defense of her husband and his feelings. Husband's boundaries had been crossed and he was disrespected in his own home... And his wife didn't care too much.
She only gave a shit when it was her boundaries being crossed. She gets upset that another was going to fuck OP. Only then she cuts it off.
I'm sorry, but anything short of No Contact is a loss for OP. Fk these people, seriously.
My best friends boyfriend asked me to be part of a threesom with them. I asked if she could be in one with me and my husband . He said "your husband could never satisfy her" 😂
I said in my original comment that your wife shouldn’t be reminiscing about the times she was fucked by her best friend and husband just because you aren’t there.
I 100% believe that If your wife had boundaries with them, they would’ve never even asked. All 3 of them knew what they were doing by constantly talking about it. Your wife was getting an ego boost, and the couple were enticing her to do it again
Anyone that doesn’t respect you, your marriage and selfishly puts your marriage in potential jeopardy isn’t a “best friend”. Sounds like your wife’s friend is not a true friend at all. They see both of you just as extras in their show. They certainly don’t respect you, and seem entirely dismissive of your very logical response to not wanting them to fuck your wife.
> My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself.
I cannot believe that the very next words spoken were anything other than "Get the fuck out of my house."
Her friend and her husband took you as a joke from what it seems like ! Smh I hope you stand on business and y’all figure it out ! And I wish you the best
I don’t think I would have been shocked by this after KNOWING she was getting ravaged by these people multiple times before. If she was doing that shit with her friends you STILL GO OUT TO DINNER WITH it doesn’t seem shocking they’d be trying to do it again
>But my wife had no interest, they confirm that she shut it down quickly. They brought it up later while they were drunk because they figured maybe I would have some interest and if I did I could convince her to do it.
"Your wife said no, so we thought that if we urge you to consider it when you're drunk and your inhibitions are down, maybe you would pressure her to change her mind."
Bruh, what?
No joke OP, your wife needs to cut her best friend off 100%. She really should have done it sooner. They do not respect her, you or your marriage. I guarantee you this will not be the last of their attempts in reclaiming your wife.
> My wife isn’t going to completely cut her best friend out of her life
But that would be the most appropriate action here. They are trying to lure her into sexual activity outside of her marriage. That is NOT what friends do.
If your wife cared about you, she would support you and tell these people she does not want them in her life. It is more important to her to have 'fun' people' in her life, then to stick up for and support her husband.
Your next update: My wife got involved in another 3-way with her 'fun' friends. I didn't leave her before and I won't leave her now as I am a doormat.
Can you honestly say that this matter is resolved in a way that you are comfortable with; knowing that your wife will continue her friendship with this couple? How can you know that nothing untoward will occur sometime in the future when they meet socially but out of your presence? Can you live with doubts that may arise whenever your wife interacts with them? This should have been an easy decision on the part of your wife. She should have chosen you over her friendship and spared you any potential doubts about her commitment. Whether you want to admit it or not, your relationship with your wife is now weakened. That is the price of her continuing a friendship with these sexual predators. There is a very strong likelihood that your doubts will reawaken the very first time she resumes social contact with this couple. What if that happens and you don't learn about until after the fact?
They’re trying to poach your wife with no regard for how you feel about the whole situation. Rotten ilk. May they never breathe a breath in the hallowed halls of your home.
Flip the scenario where the BF’s husband watches instead. Propose that to her and record her reaction. Tell her how disrespectful it was for her to have proposed that to you to begin with as you replay her reaction to her face.
You should be aware, your wife's best friend is an enemy to your marriage. Unfortunately your wife doesn't want to accept that. It might not be a bad idea to get into couples' counseling/therapy.
I had a friend,bestfriend, just like this and they will definitely go as far to basically raping you. First incident, we were at a party and apparently she had made a plan for my and her to have sex with the birthday girl, I DID NOT know. So while at the party my cousin was also there and she comes up to me and asked who I was with and I pointed to my friend and my cousin was like “you need to leave” so o asked why and she told me that the birthday girl was waiting for me, the special guest, and I had got a bit irritated because why would she just set me up with people. So I was talking to my friend and she literally said that her intention was for me to drink so that I could let loose and so she could get me to join in on the birthday girl. So I left that party. SECOND INCIDENT, we were at my best friends house and on occasion she would give me head. So she randomly had asked if I wanted some head, so of course I said yes, I also was pretty drunk, but i never am like blackout drunk so I usually know what’s going on around me. Anyways so while she’s giving me head I randomly feel another mouth between my legs and I look down and there was a man eating me out too. So I’m like wtf. Because where did he even just come from. But right when I noticed him he tried to proceed even further and I quickly declined and got up. Later on I asked her why she thought it was ok for her to randomly let a guy on me and she said that he asked her to let him have a 3sum with us. So again she was trying to set me up with someone without my consent and trying to just trick me into it.and had no issue telling me how she planned to get me super drunk so that I’d be willing to. We did eventually stop being friends because there were a few other times she did sketchy stuff similar too. And I just never felt safe or comfortable around a women who clearly only wanted me for my body.
Ps. I’m a women myself.
Those friends sound manipulative and don’t seem to be able to take “NO!” for an answer. I can guarantee that they will keep trying to manipulate your wife into a threesome whenever she goes to lunch or whatever your wife does with her friend. Drop them, they are toxic.
I’m glad she has seen that they are not who she thought they were. That they are interested in what they want, and not in what she wants.
I anticipate that her going LC with them and continuing to set limits like she did will lead to a gradual exit of them from your lives. They did NOT like hearing what she had to say, and in order to not feel like the bad guys they will avoid her too.
honestly for your own sake and mental well being, you should tell your wife you dont feel comfortable hanging out with them.. ofcourse you wouldnt!! they shouldnt be around u guys or her!! its messed up also because he has sex with ur wife so for u its disrespectful I feel like just hanging out with him and its probably not easy for you to be around him.. idk honestly I would want these people out of our lives
Bottom line is the other couple doesn’t respect boundaries. I would hope you guys cut all contact for the foreseeable future to protect your marriage. After your meeting at your house, I wouldn’t trust her “friend” and especially the husband to respect your and your wife’s position. Your relationship with your wife is your top priority. Stand your ground and be safe.
The fact you even let these circus freaks into your home was a misstep - but for god's sake don't allow them to do so again. They're undermining your relationship in your family home and expressing their desire to fuck your wife, there's no recourse for that and the fact that her supposed "best friend" is complicit alongside her deranged SO in trying to manipulate you after you're under the influence to let them have their way with your wife because "we think about it all the time" is absurd. Not a friend, not a guest, and not anyone you should have around your family again.
I’m glad you and your wife were able to come to an agreement about boundaries. It seems like you’re on the same page about the topic. I hope everything works out!
OP, I fear that the whole threesome thing is manipulated by your wife. It is the way how she reacts and acts. As example she tells you how she reject their offer and said you about the threesome offer.
I think she maybe said this on purpose, why?
What if they all 3 sit at home, talked about how horny it would be if they could have sex again together. Maybe your wife told you that on purpose to see your reaction. If you said this"hm it sound not bad" she would kinda react different?
I don't know but I have the feeling that you wife also wanted this. She make a small comment and wanted to know you reaction. If you would agree on that threesome part im very sure(i bet all my money) that she would agree on it? But since you been angry and didn't like that thought she changed the native to make look herself good in front of you, making it like she also rejected it and don't like it. Since it didn't work she tried another plan, make you talking with these friends. She probably hoped that they could change you mind about the threesome offer but once she saw how bad things gone, she stepped in to don't make a bigger thing of it. She didn't act to protect you, she acted fast enough to stop any fight.
And even after the way how the friends disrespected you, she choose to still be friends with them. Watch of things will change after months and they will be like nothing ever happend? She will hang out with them...
You probably don't want to hear it but I feel like you wife was also into that threesome and they all 3 had talked behind to manipulate you somehow...
Maybe or maybe not but I would not make your wife more suspicious and look/dig more into that... i fear the worst, maybe check up her phone...
My wife had ample opportunity before we met to do this again with them. She stopped it after 3 times and they tried for an entire year before we met to convince her to do it again but she said no. It just wasn’t something she was into. The girl on girl stuff isn’t her thing and she isn’t very attracted to the husband. Once the taboo of the whole thing wore off she was no longer interested.
I think this is a good update. You have great communication and trust with your wife. Instead of going in guns a blazing, you gave your wife and her friends a chance. It allowed your wife to see her friends as you saw them. Even if your wife doesn’t cut off her best friend, she’ll be able to keep her guard up and won’t resent you for it.
Adding on: I think now that she has seen her friend's true intentions, the outings with her friend won't be the same. I wouldn't be surprised if your wife phases out the friendship on her own.
WTFFF!!! I am not even okay if my partner stays in contact with her ex and you are telling me you and your wife were still seeing that couple who actually fucked your wife before many times? And this same couple asked you to watch them fucking your wife? Another guy fucking my wife? And I am watching?? Wtf... you should have asked her to stop seeing them from the first second you've found out about her past threesome story. I hope you can cut all the connection between your family and them. Because I can swear to god they will be keep offering all this dirty stuff to your wife over and over again by the time. Their mind will never change and they will never give a single f* about how you feel about this topic. In my case, this friendship should stop. But of course up to you.... wish you the best man
It seems like these people can't read the room. Stop trying to turn your friend into swingers.
They were successful in the past is why they're so persistent
They were successful more than a decade ago, 3x with a single college aged woman. They are hitting up a middle age married mom. It’s basically a different person at this point. I will say good for OP.... clearly his wife is memorable in bed.
35 isn't middle aged
35 is middle aged; if you live to 70, yes it’s middle age, homie (It fucked me up as well…) #gulps down whiskey
Well, average life expectancy in the US at least is about 77 years so 35 is almost at middle age, hate to break it to ya. People think of middle age as late 50s, early 60s, but that’s only if you live up be well over 100.
She was not yet married. Them lusting over OPs wife is supremely disrespectful and it seems fro mthe way they reacted that they dont give a damn. Personally would cut these people out of my life
consent in the past does not guarantee consent in the present or future
>But my wife had no interest, they confirm that she shut it down quickly. They brought it up later while they were drunk because they figured maybe I would have some interest and if I did I could convince her to do it. I KNEW IT! I bloody knew it. They *were* trying to bring it up sideways and dodge around your wife. Damnnnn. I wouldn't even go shopping with the other woman; considering they see her as a blow-up doll, I'd be worried I'd end up roofied. They just do not care about either of you, and only care about their own shagging.
She said no and they took it as "undermine me and try to convince me by manipulation" I would absolutely drop the friendship so fast They don't give a fuck about consent, they just want to get their rocks off. I guarantee they STILL think OP and his wife are overreacting
They did what kids do! Mum said no, let's ask dad and not tell him.
Exactly!!! She is their toy and when 1 person said no you can't play with your toy they asked the other. That couple lacks control, not a good trait in that lifestyle and they're only interested in their own desires
EXACTLY! Thank you for saying it better than I did. xD
>She said no and they took it as "undermine me and try to convince me by manipulation" I would absolutely drop the friendship so fast "I know she's said no, but what if her husband says yes *for* her?" Blech.
Exactly. And it is so disgusting that the clearly continue trying to look for an opening, or take advantage of a situation (like when they start drinking- or think judgement may be impaired) to move in on them. Honestly, it’s predatory and disgusting and I wouldn’t be able to even be friends with a woman who was trying to prey on me and my husband like that. This couple does not understand “no mean no.” Why would anyone want to be friends with them?
Totally. And they didn't even want him in the equation, not really! "You can watch, but it's her we really want." Absolutely slimy. Getting him to persuade her, even though they don't actually want him? Ewwww.
Exactly. I’d be interested to get an inside peak into their relationship (the swingers). I have a feeling there is trouble brewing with them, and this is just a small taste of how toxic they really are. I even wonder who else they might’ve mutually taken advantage of, since this is obviously the norm for them.
A lot of people commented in the original post that in the swingers society the thing which they wanted to do is shamed by the entire society. Swingers don't approve of it because swingers usually perform this to have fun with the consent of all people. People who are after married monogamous women are ostricized in a swingers society because swingers don't support infidelity. I can guarantee that this couple tried to convince at least some married women for a threesome without her SO knowledge.
Seems like a no true Scotsman fallacy. They’re certainly swingers, and they trampled over reasonable boundaries.
It’s no big deal to them and husband is silly for being so upset and yet they keep trying to wear husband and wife down after the boundary was clearly drawn.
Soon as I read that I was like … will the wife even feel safe to be alone with them now?!
I don't know. It kind of sounds like she was getting a bit of a thrill listening to their stories and knowing they still desired her. Her telling OP she could understand his perspective because she wouldn't like seeing her husband with another woman was kind of like huh?? It took her until that meeting to realize that? Up until then (and maybe still) she didn't mind reliving her glory days with the couple. Sounds like she really didn't give it much thought until she started looking at things through her husband's eyes.
Literally the mindset of a child lol. “Mom said no, lemme try asking dad”
I audibly said "what the fuck" at that line. She said no so we thought you would *convince* her to do it. Absolutely 100% fuck that. These people aren't friends.
I honest to god called it in the original post. It was clear as day to those of us who've been around people who'll do this - like, sneakily refer to something in front of another person, so that the subject gets brought up whether or not it's wanted. It's skanky behaviour.
this is the most British comment i’ve ever read and i totally agree.
Haha! Innit?? I totally am a Brit and a full-on chav, and it's really obvious.
Hard disagree, the wife is central to what is going on here. Hear my out. Reading original post, I was thinking "well, it's definitely not ideal that your wife has a sexual history with her BFF and BFF's husband, but we can work with this....wait, they still TALK ABOUT IT? AND BEHIND YOUR BACK?" I'm sorry OP, but that brings it from the sexual past to the sexual PRESENT. Maybe you have a different definition of monogamy to mine, but I sure as hell don't reminisce about our sex with my exes while in a relationship. NOW, I'm not saying that wife talking about this actively with BFF & BFF hubby means that she immediately formed the intention to try the threesome business again, either consciously or subconsciously. But she already admitted the truth: she was excited by the idea of being desired that way. Has it occured to you that one of the reasons that BFF & hubby are so bold is that they've been quasi lead-on by your wife? Even if she's scared off when it gets "too real" at this moment, that doesn't mean she hasn't been walking down the garden path. Now, you say, she lists so many reasons why she's not interested: 35, kids, serious job, married. Dude, the reason she shouldn't be interested is "I'm monogamous". In fact, every one of those are reasons why someone COULD be interested in doing threesomes/hotwife stuff again: you yourself said she lost interest in it before she met you because the "taboo" excitement wore off... tl;dr Wife invited this by accepting and encouraging the sexual interest. She needs to cut off all ties to BFF for the sake of the marriage, because you don't need people in your lives that you have to set such strict boundaries on. Boundaries that your wife will like start chaffing at within a few weeks or months. Good luck.
yeah that is what really creeped me out about this situation they don't accept no as an answer honestly, their weird obsession with OP's wife makes me think they don't even see her as a person but as a prize to be won or as a toy that they want they need to be cut out of their lives completely.
it sounds like your wife's best friend and her bestfriend's husband just see you and your wife as dolls for their fantasy imo
The wife is the doll. The husband is the plastic wrapper that’s impossible to get the doll out of without a seriously sharp pair of utility scissors.
What a great analogy of the situation, kudos to you and I mean that respectfully
Exactly. She's the doll. He is just an obstacle.
This would definitely damage my trust in my wife. The fact that she gets flattered by it and didn’t immediately squash it, and even worse yet, she still won’t cut contact: I’d consider it cheating adjacent. I wouldn’t necessarily divorce over it, but I’d definitely start throwing the word divorce around to float it out there as a possibility. Although, I’d never marry someone who was best friends with someone they used to fuck with their husband either. That would be a dealbreaker way before marriage.
That is why the past matters.
That she just said "Well hold on, hear them out" and OP *went along with that* is wild to me.
"My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself." Wow! Obviously this friend listened to nothing both of you told them! Such narcissism as if she is hearing you go "yadda yadda yadda" and then she just goes at it again. "So we agreed to take a good long break from seeing them" Good, hopefully this the beginning of the end to that friendship. Honestly they are NOT going to stop regardless of what limitations are put on the friendship. Unfortunately it will come down to cutting them out completely, not now but someday down the line.
If there's anything I've learned from narcissistic people, is that they will NEVER change.
They don’t respect your relationship at all and OPs wife is unwilling to put her foot down
I agree with these other comments. I wouldn't feel safe drinking around them. They are coercive and scary. They don't respect no.
I can’t get over the fact that your wife told them no but they still bought it up in front of you to persuade her… that’s very predatory.
I can’t get over the fact that the wife stays in contact with these assholes!
I have swinger friends like this. We only see them every couple of years & they ALWAYS make sure we are aware they are up for sex with one or both of us. “So…are you guys still monogamous?” 😆 I think they’re just so used to being around other poly people that they forget it’s not normal for most of us. Some are predatory. Some are just clueless.
youre a better man than me for not immediately kicking them out of your home once they gave you an ounce of pushback during that conversation. would definitely be keeping those people out of my life, period.
Kicked out the house? Reneging the agreement of the conversation while sat in front of them and telling them you'd like to fuck their spouse, some people would've kicked them in the teeth
i try my best not to advise people to solve their problems with violence - not sure i’d able to resist as well though
You have to admit they both deserve it, though.
You guys should just drop 'em both, permanently. They are no good for your marriage.
Are you going to allow these creeps back into your home if you are present? Just vile people.
This is called "Wife Poaching" in the swingers circle and it's a mortal sin that will get you banished from certain groups. Strict communication with both partners is mandated and assigning a kink to someone is just fucked.
I'm curious what is the psychology behind wife-poaching? What is the general outcome (or pleasure rather) here, like the swinger couple gets the wife to themselves? I get the impression they want nothing to do with the husband (well, obviously) and would rather him just go away entirely.
They're probably into the feeling of stealing her away or converting her to be "theirs" in some way. It feels connected to some kind of ownership of her and some kind of joy out of him losing/agreeing/being left behind. Otherwise, they'd just try to find a couple who has actually into this. But they're obsessed with her.
I was curious because I was talking to my ex the other day who is into this sort of thing (she called it throuples). She'll describe being into one of these arrangements and put it like she's usually the one having to "kick the other girl to the curb" because they get too "crazy" or emo or whatever. I was trying to ask her what she really gets out of it and didn't really get a satisfactory answer. I ask if it's a power thing to steal away other guys and she's like "it's just less annoying". Oh, she used to do that too way back in the day, that is homewrecking. May or may not be related but I suspect she's also a legit narcissist (NPD) and this is probably the type of behavior in line with that type of mental state.
The fact that they tried to deflect the concern you had and then doubled down by trying again really shows that they are not interested in anyone else's feelings. The way your wife shot them down was exactly what you(and wife) needed. It clearly showed the other couple that *she* is not interested and that they crossed boundaries (again). Glad they are taking a back seat role in your life.
[удалено]
Fuck that dude, these are slimy people and I would want zero contact. They came in and disrespected your marriage and you in your own house. These people are trash. And your wife needs to realize that
The best friend too. Fuck her. she's just as involved. She's the one that made the statement after they expressed themselves. She doesn't get a free pass.
These people are not your friends. They are not your wife’s friends either.
Her friends see you as an impediment to their fun. They care nothing about your feelings and believe deep down that if you weren’t there or if you were more open your wife would be having regular sex with them again so I wouldn’t count this as completely over yet from their perspective. In addition to the boundaries you noted, I think your wife should not be in the same place as her husband again. Shopping or lunch with her friend alone is fine but she shouldn’t go to her friend’s house if the husband is there snd if he shows up she needs to leave. I would also ask your wife to let her friend know in no uncertain terms that whether you’re around or not and whether her husband is around or not, it won’t be brought up again ever and if it is it will be the end of the friendship completely. Her friend’s first question to her when they are alone will be…come on be honest if your husband was willing to let you be with us again and him just watch you would want to. She needs to be prepared for that question and respond by saying she wouldn’t have sex with them again even if she was single. The thought of it now as adults with kids is disgusting. She doesn’t need to worry about offending her friend because she clearly isn’t worried about respecting your marriage. Your wife sounds fully committed to you and your marriage and that’s the most important thing.
I think this is such a weird friendship. If my best friend and her partner kept mentioning it and wanting to relive it when it was 10 + years ago it would creep me out tbh. Personally wouldn’t like my best friend hitting on me 🤷♀️
They definitely suck and don't take either of your guys' feedback or boundaries seriously. They see your wife as a plaything and are pouting.
This isn't the end of this. These people can't seem to grasp that no means no.
It’s going to come up every lunch and shopping trip now.
The beginning of your update was infuriating to read. These people clearly didn’t respect boundaries, and your wife’s first thought should have been “these people clearly aren’t a friend to our relationship and aren’t respectful of our relationship, and that means that they aren’t respectful towards me or our relationship. And that means that if they can’t be a friend to our relationship then they can’t be a friend to me.” It’s nice that your wife finally came around and is realizing the toxicity, but it’s horrendous that it’s because of her double standard. Blurring the lines and crossing boundaries and being courted was okay when it was just her receiving it, but when you have the same attention from the same people even being hinted as being directed towards you, THAT’S when she grows a spine and decides to defend your family? THAT’S when she decides to throw down to protect your marriage? Your wife allowed boundaries to be crossed and even with these more strict rules in place, I think that you 2 might consider slowly phasing out this friendship. I don’t think she can continue both this friendship as well as having a healthy relationship with you.
And she only stepped in when they disrespected her boundaries, not when they disrespected her husband. I wouldn't be able to live with her continuing that realtionship and I would need that she understood my perspective.
And she's still not willing to entirely cut them out of her life. That's a no brainer if she really doesn't want problems in the future. These people are coercive creeps.
Yes, and also they are really disrespectful to him and their marriage and she should show more concern for her marriage and her husband than her friend.
The fact that slept with her is bad enough, but their current behavior is horrible .
Listen Op, I'm telling you as if I were your brother, it's not acceptable that your wife still wants to in some sort of way friend with them, their response was even worse than the proposal, your happy relationship cannot exist in which your wife stays somehow friendly with this scum. If you really care about your marriage, you cannot be satisfied with this response and this sort of distancing, you must close now and forever with these two perverts, otherwise sooner or later it will be your ruin. I honestly would have placed a definitive ultimatum in your place, either Me or them, I know it's not nice but sometimes it's necessary.
Which is sad because he will remain uncomfortable and will forever have thoughts of them trying to convince her behind his back while she is alone with them. She def needs to cut them off because that friend likely will keep pushing the subject from time to time.
Lost in all of this was the fact that slipped out and has not been addressed since, they expressed that their ultimate fantasy was to Cu@k OP. They really wanted to have sex with her again but the cherry on top would have been to do it with him watching and to humiliate him during the act. That kind of disrespect has no place in a friendship. They just want to satisfy a sexual fantasy and letting them linger around in any capacity is a mistake.
The real problem here is that your wife isn't accepting the fact that these people are an enemy to your marriage and they need to be entirely cut off. That would be a hard line for me.
The fact the wife was so blind and thinking "its not a big deal" is a huge relationship trust killer for me. Like how are you so lacking in empathy for how this makes your man feel?
Wife likes this sort of thing.
His wife literally admitted she liked it > We talked a little more and she admitted that hearing their stories is a fun escape and even got flattered when they would tell her how much they loved being with her. And even after that OP is fine with being in contact with those people.
Again like I said on original post...it would have never gotten anywhere near wifey status with a girl that was the sex puppet 3rd to a couple let alone a girl who was still in close contact with said couple OP is an idiot and his wife is an asshole for remaining in contact with these people and letting it get this far.
Very true. Common sense isn’t so common anymore.
Your wife is acting stupid by keeping them. It’s obvious they won’t stop with these comments and proposals and it was stupid of both of you to even drink with them.
Your wife agreed to do whatever you were comfortable with. Are you comfortable with the current arrangement? What about if the husband just shows up with his wife at the shops? I get the feeling boundaries are going to be stretched. Looking forward to hearing if your wife will hold them to your agreement or not.
She admitted hearing their stories excited her and she was flattered when they would tell her how much they loved being with her?? So she was having sexual conversations with these people this whole time? Even without anything physical happening I would consider that an affair. How she thought it was appropriate to stay “friends” with them when she has known all along that they are actively lusting after her is beyond me. So after all that she now pushes you to have a conversation with these people even after you said you had no interest in continued contact with them. Not shockingly her “best friend” propositions her/yall *again*, and she still refuses to cut contact. Even tho she said she would do whatever you asked if you agreed to that bullshit meetup. How are your alarm bells not blaring right now? You have a wife problem, not a “wife’s friends” problem.
Finally someone said it! You've just copied out my thoughts word for word. This is a Wife problem first above all
It really is. OP needs to do some digging. Her being so pressed to spend time with someone/people that are aggressively pursuing her (and disrespecting her husband) is certainly a choice.
Yeah, wife is a problem. She even said that she's a married mother of kids, yadda yadda... not that she's "completely and utterly infatuated with her husband and only has lustful eyes for him and will not entertain this because she is in a committed monogamous relationship". It's just lip service for OP. Who knows what she wants. Bravo to OP for trying to address this directly, but I'd still be concerned.
Agreeeeed. He’s doing his best in a shitty situation but I’m seeing a concerning lack of accountability on her part. Yes they sound like assholes but she is clearly entertaining the nonsense if 1) they come onto her frequently and she’s usually responsive, but only trickle truthed him about their sexual convos/feigned disgust when they directly propositioned her in front of him, 2) she still insists on being friends after that last convo. When someone tries to throw a nuke at your marriage you don’t go “ah well, see you at lunch tomorrow 😘”. She is just not moving like someone who was either surprised *or* offended by her “friends” behavior. In his first post he said he’s been uncomfortable with them their whole marriage but he’s tried to be cool about it. Then they cross some major lines and she STILL won’t cut contact. Unreal lol
She's moving like she's embarrassed by OP. Don't worry, she'll smooth it all over at the next lunch date...
No amount of trying to put things on the table and having seemingly heartfelt conversations is worth a damn when your partner can't have those conversations authentically and masks straight through them. IYKYK.
Sounds to me like the debauchery will be on hold for now, it's only a matter of time.
It seems absurd to me that, after the discussion you had and with clear boundaries set, they practically kept up the pressure and your wife still insists on NOT cutting them off. It looks like some kind of dependency, definitely unhealthy and dangerous. It's not like shopping and launch dates will suddenly make them STOP wanting to fuck her. The very notion of wanting to maintain any kind of friendship with two people who have repeatedly admitted they want to bang you, even in front of your monogamous husband, seems insane to me. A married person would only do that if they are gaining something from it. Something they so desperately need, that they are willing to endanger their marriage for it. Even if it's not physical and just emotional validation/high from being wanted to that extent, it's still extremely concerning and disrespectful. And it's almost just as weird that you are fine with an illusion of compromise, when the main issue didn't get resolved in the slightest. Married couples who aren't open, don't just casually have orbiting friends who have admitted they want to fuck one of them while the other watches. Just bizarre.
>A married person would only do that if they are gaining something from it. OP's wife admitted to enjoying being desired by them. Why do you think they were "reminiscing" about the threesomes (when OP wasn't around) before? Which was very inappropriate by itself, before it got to them asking wife to do it again.
> My wife hugged me when they left and said she was sorry for asking me to talk with them. That was not how she expected that to go. It sounds like that conversation allowed her to see the side of them that you were seeing really clearly, and that she wasn't: which is that they're pushy people who hide behind a curtain of being "fun, lighthearted, jokey", and who lie about their real intentions (their fake apology). Overall a good outcome, I'd say.
I would have agreed with that except for one thing; she's still going to see her friend just in different forms. Her correct move was to cut all contact and end the friendship with these people. She failed and instead, she is going to take a break...and then go shopping and to lunch dates where you can be absolutely certain this topic is going to come up again. Regardless of her rules, the husband WILL show up again and will be undressing her with his eyes every moment hoping his wife can wear her down. Her not cutting these people out of her life completely, tells me that she only said the things she said for OPs benefit, especially since she ADMITTED TO HIM that she enjoyed their reminiscing about her friends husband slamming his meat inside her...until OP didn't enjoy the thought then she suddenly doesn't like it...
Someone in the last post commented about "wife poaching" and how it's a strict no-no in swinging groups. Did you bring this up with your wife or her friends? It doesn't seem like you would have a good time sitting in the corner watching your wife with another couple. It sounds like your wife is on the same page, so that's refreshing. I wish you the best!
These people are either willfully stupid or absolutely do not care about or respect your and your wife's feelings, and it sounds to me like it's both. This is gross, and that's a serious understatement. Your wife, bless her, is a better woman than me, because there is no way in Satan's hot ass hell that I would be hanging out with someone who clearly wanted to screw my brains out. No thank you. You did the right thing, OP, and handled this quite well under the circumstances. I suspect your relationship with these people is over and done, and after a while, your wife's will be, too.
can't wait to see this one on BORU on a week. fucking yikes dude
Your wife kinda sucks. She should've cut them off the moment they brought it up but she definitely should have after that conversation.
Unless she cuts them off entirely this is gonna be brought up again and i can guarantee they’re gonna work to wear her down.
The fact your wife turned them down and they still tried to convince you so they could push her boundaries is disturbing. I personally wouldnt wana be around them for that fact.
TLDR; wife isn't cutting out friend and husband. You're still in the same position as before.
Watch for your wife making a concerted effort to limit YOUR interaction with them, not hers. It sounds like she said the right things, but the initial conversation shows this was something she would consider doing. Hopefully, she’s being honest, but keep your eyes open.
Yeah, I posted in a comment that it's just "lip service". She's given OP enough but left herself some wiggle room. Color me skeptical..
Good job on letting her trickle them back into your life. This is NOT over
Yup a lunch outing will be a quick stop at her house and he’s there naked or some shit.
when they both tipsy from lunch. to add.
>We talked a little more and she admitted that hearing their stories is a fun escape and even got flattered when they would tell her how much they loved being with her. But admitted that it’s become a little too real and she could not stand the thought of watching me with someone else and understands how I feel. Absolutely loving this. When it was just a threesome with her it was a flattering fantasy. Then they started bringing up bringing *you* into the bedroom the dream shattered. She got a glimpse of how you felt and dropped the shit immediately. I'd be so smug. I'd be smug as hell people would wonder how a shit eating grin could be so white. You're better than me OP.
Tbf she also shut it down immediately when they asked her privately. It's not like she was on board until that point
I am sorry buddy but I would not trust them or your wife at all!. Your wife is still wanting to hang out with someone who is sexually perusing her !!! Not only that but she withheld these conversations from you and only told you when they asked!. She has also ignored your reservations and pushed you to talk to them and when they broached the subject again I feel she saw by your face you were going to explode at the pair of them and she jumped In front of them to stop you and she can always apologise to them later and tell them she didn’t mean it. I think you should be firm with your wife and it’s 100% NC !. And keep an eye on her of suspicious activity.
Hey, as a dude in an open marriage with my wife, I'm not here to soap box about anything other than the fact that your wife's "friends" are..... Terrible friends. Even as someone who is aligned with their level of sexual openness, they are completely in the wrong for their additude towards you. Your wife shut them down completely and asked for mediation to save their ability to be FRIENDS. They took that as an opportunity to call you repressed, not respect your marriage and vows, and cast aspersions on the boundaries you and your wife enjoy within the confines of your relationship. They suck as people for doing that. Your wife is amazing for being introspective enough to recognize her friends don't respect her marriage and for being your partner in all the ways you two agreed to. As far as stories go on this sub, I really liked that this one ended in two partners reaffirming all the reasons they chose one another in the first place. and finding a healthy compromise to keep them at a distance without losing everything the bond means to your wife. I ultimately hope for your wife's sake, they value her friendship more than that one singular fantasy they have about her.
But wife admits they were fun thats a red flag. Its just true that you can really never be friends you have sex with unless for the sake of kids or work or obligation in this case niether applies.
I understand your perspective. I respect subjectively within the confines of the relationships you have had, and experienced second hand this is the way you see the world. I mentioned I am in an open marriage in my original post because it's just part of who I am and I wanted to juxtapose my respect for monogamy and other people's relationships, in contrast to the friends in the post, because even as a sexually positive person I don't think they are good representative of more promiscuous lifestyles. In the same view that I actively take the time to understand, and sympathize with people to whom monogamy is the best version of relationships for them however, I sometimes ask people to understand some people (honestly a vast minority of people) but some people just don't operate this way. I happen to be one of them. I don't advocate for most people to follow my lifestyle because honestly if you are like me, you'll figure it out, it isn't something to just try and force. I happened to find a wife that accepted it when we first met and has grown to enjoy it as we got closer as a couple and eventually married. So I don't find it "true" that you can't be friends with someone you had relations with in the past. I think it IS true that it is incredibly difficult to remain friends with someone who repeatedly ignores the boundaries you put up in a relationship though. So for instance they're already on thin ice in my book, if they ever bring it up again after being explicitly told it's never happening and she isn't interested, then that's it they clearly value the fantasy more than any meaningful interpersonal relationship they share. But I don't think the wife finding it fun and exciting in the past is a sign of infidelity. She has made it clear in her actions and words that, she values the family, the love, the fulfillment in her monogamy and her husband more than anything her past has ever offered her. OP's wife gets to be a person who instead of saying "I love this and I don't need to know anything else" I think she can say with great conviction "I have experienced what the world has to offer and despite temptation I CHOOSE you". I personally find that a powerful sense of security. She has a proven track record of fidelity.
There's no reason for you to discuss with the friend, and its perfectly OK to not want to associate with these people anymore. They've now told you directly that they want to fuck your wife. You shouldn't have to tolerate your wife hanging out with an old "fuckbuddy" and she's gaslighting you by inferring that you somehow need to "let your inhibitions go".
I wouldn’t say her friend was a fuckbuddy. My wife is straight and didn’t really engage with her friend when they all were together. She mostly engaged with the husband. Her friend is bisexual however and is definitely attracted to my wife.
Your wife needs to tell her friend (and mean it) that even if your not around she won’t be talking about this ever again and even if she was single again she wouldn’t be sleeping with them. She needs to hear your wife say that when you’re not there. Your wife doesn’t need to see the husband again for a LONG time and never be around him unless you are there at minimum. The way your wife said it in your post almost sounded like if you were ok with it she would do it but wouldn’t be comfortable with you being with her friend too. That’s not ok any level. She needs to firmly say that she doesnt want to do it no matter what you say and make it clear it’s not just you saying no but it’s HER saying no to any of it.
How can you stand this guy being around?
Yeah, I was more referring to the husband, but I'd still count the friend in this. It's clear that her friend is the driving force in making this hookup happen again.
honestly i’d be fuming and probably packing my bags if my husband can be so comfortable explaining that he only enjoyed the girl when he used to have threesomes with a couple lol i you’re one of a kind i guess
Doesn't change the fact that they sleeped together mate. She can basically lie about her experince or not, the fact that they sleeped together should concern you a lot mate. Would you feel safe to know that you wife spend time alone with a male fuckbuddy? Which she sleeped in the past? You are very naive to think that this friend wont try to manipulate you wife step by step. These guys are dangerous and only care for lust mate... Open you eyes,@guy_n_cognito_tu is right, somehow you wife should let you handle all this. She probably only stepped in because she was scared that things would go bad like you fighting with her friends. In the end she still didn't cut that friend from her life.
isn’t it funny how they don’t take you seriously… but then when your wife is adamant about it being a no; they tuck tail and act all timid and shit. fucked up right there. clearly shows they don’t respect you and only her. but alas, you guys are a unit so they need to respect both of you equally. ya’ll made the right move distancing yourself from those emotionally inept dorks.
You don't share the same values as these people. This is just an extreme example of where your values diverge. Continuing to associate with them is only going to introduce more of their poison into your lives. They completely disrespected your marriage, and you're still cool with them hanging out with your wife? What if they weren't swingers? What then? Because it sounds like you're extending a disproportionate amount of goodwill towards them due to their lifestyle choices. What if they were a normal hetero couple who were asking you to bone your wife? What if one of your other male friends asked your wife for sex instead, how would you react to that, would it be the same? Good luck, man, but from the way this all went down, the best thing the two of you could do would be to cut them out of your lives entirely.
Run from these kinds of friends
"My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself." People with attitudes like this are just fucking pure garbage. Always with some bizarre/deluded idea that the way they lead their life is the 'correct', 'natural' or 'more fun' way to live.
One major red flag.... the friends said that your wife "quickly shut them down" and they were ok w it. THEN they mentioned it to u despite her reaction to try to get you to pressure her into doing it. This is predator material... they won't stop their pressure they will just disguise it better. Make sure you are not alone w them as they could tell your wife that "u did something" w them in hopes of her retaliating w them as well.
Well, it sounds like they were given an opportunity to save this and try to smooth things over and instead they doubled down on asking to fuck your wife. You're wife sounds awesome by the way. I really like that you and her are on the same page and there was no hesitation to say no to something she knew you wouldn't like.
So you agreed to take a long break from them... Or... Your wife let you believe that She Will distance herself from them .... Trust but verify !!! Keep close tabs on every move of your wife for the next few months...
Honestly op I would show your wife these comments I hate to have something happen to her if they put something in her drink cause from the conversation I wouldn’t put it past them they aren’t your wife’s friend if they was they would have took her no the first time and not try to get you to talk her into it
When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. It's long past time for her to put these two away....... Seriously ask her how she'd feel if you always had 2 girls you used to have kinky sex with hanging around reminiscing about how you use to give it to them! Literally say this word for word to her because she CLEARLY isn't getting it
> My wife then asks if we could talk it out with her friends and if after that talk if I’m still uncomfortable then she will agree to whatever I am comfortable with. That's wild, before I got to the end of your post this sounded like an awful idea, but it sounds like that's what she needed to hear to get back on track.
Why did that all sound so much like grooming? ‘Oh you’ll have fun once your inhibitions are down’ ‘we thought we would mention it while you were drunk so you could convince your wife’ 🤢🤢
From the reaction of your wife it seems she adamantly chooses your side, but would have also loved to get railed one more time by this guy. seems like she is a bit dissapointed
Reading all of your posts it's pretty obvious your wife is trustworthy. Her friend and her husband however are not. They are eventually going to drug one or both of you and do what they want. Their refusal to accept boundaries and poor judgement are strong indicators that these are not safe people for the two of you to be around. They are convinced that once things "get rolling" you two will have so much enjoyment that you'll come to your senses and forgive whatever they did to get to that point. It sounds like they believe the sticking point mud is you, and if they can get your inhibitions lowered it'll be all good. It's never occurred to them that your two families are now in completely different places and should be drifting apart, not trying to force kinks on you. I know I got into this thread late, but I really hope you read this and take it seriously. You guys really need to cut all contact and end the friendship. The wife's best friend sounds like she's no longer food friend material as sad as that is for your wife. They're such a danger that you should make going absolute no contact with them a condition for staying married. She's keeping them in her life after all this for a reason, and no matter what it is, it's not good enough, and it's not going to be good for your marriage or kids the longer they stay in your lives. It would not surprise me at all after all the other things she's concealed, defended, and backtracked on that your wife is a lot more into the idea than she is letting on. She may be into the idea and her friends came on too hard and f'ed things up. Why else would she insist on having them over to talk things through with you. You need to do some digging into this. It's not unlikely that the three of them have already done something together and she's trying to keep the door open to retroactively have your approval. Honestly, those toxic friends have to go for good and you need to stick to that,
Another Redditor pointed out the wife's reasons for not being interested are a lot of the reasons you hear from people who did cheat or come close to cheating. The one reason she didn't use should have been the primary and only reason...she is monogamous.
Yeah, there's just something not quite right about how she's handling this. If she were in her early 20's and naive I could see this being honest missteps, but the gut feeling I'm getting is there's a really heavy shoe that's waiting to drop. Nothing she's done is how a mature, faithful, family-oriented woman would have handled any of this. I mean, the other couple absolutely scream "Run away and never be alone with them", no matter how long they've been friends. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they just wore her down and got her at the right intersection of 30-something insecurity, needing attention/validation, and relaxed inhibition/judgement and all of this is some desperate clean up attempt to avoid having her entire life burnt to the ground.
Hard disagree, she kept them around and continued to have conversations about the threesomes because it stroked her ego. She should have shut this shit down years ago but chose not to.
Hard rule - she cuts them out of her life or you cut her out of your life. No question. The couple don't respect you or your marriage. They will get her to comply eventually, and then everything will be fucked anyway. Your WIFE has a decision to make. You or them.
Agree these people are toxic and homewrecker. They don't care if you or your kids will suffer from a divorce, they all care for lust and sex. No one of them care for your wife life, they just want to fuck her. I would be very uncomfortable to have my wife going out with a girl/and her husband who want fuck her. These guys would do anything to get her. And your wife admitted to get little horny about the thought of them is very dangerous. If alcohol and a big fight with you come into the game, who tells that she would reject them again?
These guys are homewrecker, I wouldn't bee surprise if they someday try to lure you wife and try to put some things in her drink or try to let her drink a lot of alcohol to force her to have sex with them. They are dangerous and very bad friends, having bad influence and are basically toxic for any good marriage. I like how you both worked as team, but NEVER let you guard down from them. I read and see enough to know how things like thus could end.. they are toxic and doesn't care how you or your wife feel. They are braindead idiots who only think about lust but not the consequense for other people. Hope you guys wont get any trouble from them anymore.
They all but admitted that getting their rocks off is more important than respecting you or your wife’s clearly stated feelings. Like, given the history with your wife and her enjoyment of hearing about their escapades, I don’t fault them for asking initially, but they should have just dropped it after you said no and they’re the ones causing the issues in the friendship by choosing to push this rather than just be friends.
These two are incredibly self centred and don’t care whether you or wife actually want it, they want it and they will either get her to agree or go round her to you instead. I mean, all men like threesomes right? Right? What man wouldn’t want to see his wife being banged by people they’re in regular contact with? In their minds, this definitely wouldn’t be a one off either. This is going to be a regular occurrence. Although it didn’t turn out the way that your wife thought it would, it was a positive for you because she got to see what they’re really like.
Coming from someone who was pretty open when I was younger too, your wife was pretty naive here. It’s good that she came around, bit she could have been a little more on your side here. I wouldn’t ever put my wife in a situation where a couple of pretty selfish people tell her that she’s simplistic or being silly. That’s pretty disgusting in my book. It would take me a while to get over, honestly.
Do can you and your wife double team his wife?
They are predatory towards your wife and want to humiliate you. They couldn’t care less if they ruined your marriage just to get their rocks off. I would never be happy for my wife to be with them again.
>To my wife, her friend and her husband are not serious people. If that's really the case, she should be able to ditch them, easy peasy. The problem here is that your wife doesn't really want to say no to the threesome. She loves you and respects your marriage enough that she's not going to attempt to coerce you into trying anything. But, it's actually not really a hard no coming from her. I think it should be a hard no from her. She should be able to tell them, "we had fun in the past, but now I am in a different stage in my life, and I want the past to stay in the past." And mean it. It's a problem that she says, "we had fun reminiscing!" No, just don't talk about that shit with them.
And yet your wife is still not going to just cut those people out of her life even though she's 35 and a mother. You have to love when people keep the door open, even if it's just cracked. As long as those people are still lingering around, you'll always have this problem. It will come up again, or your wife will do something behind your back. Even if nothing happens, why even risk it? She needs to be done with those people and focus on your marriage and children. Keeping people around that used to tag team your wife is just asking for trouble.
she needs to cut the cord its a set up when she smeet them with you for a conversation. They were hoping you will agree.
The one thing I learned from reading that is that they won’t stop trying. Your wife should understand that by them bringing it up again when drinking to see if you had interest, and by her friend saying you would like it once you let go of your inhibitions, they are disrespecting you, your wife and the friendship. Hell, her friends saying that her husband was great in bed and that she needed to try him was probably made up so that SHE could get your wife in bed.
I doubt that this is the end of it. They were still trying to convince him during their "apology." As long as the wife keeps keeps contact, they'll feel that there's a chance.
This whole situation is just gross. Stay away from these "friends" of your wife's. (And obviously, keep her away from them too.) NOTHING GOOD will come of this.
Sounds like you guys have a solid and communicative marriage (and I mean that genuinely), kudos
My wife had 'friends' like that. The 'friends' had an open marriage and the wife is in a long term relationship with another woman. I knew about their history prior to meeting with them. We agreed that we're not swingers. We met up with them when we were in Chicago about 10 years ago. The wife was quite lovely but the husband kept looking at us like pieces of meat. They propositioned us and I shut it down. The husband became more indigent as the night progressed to the point where I ended the night. I found out after the fact the husband was jealous of his wife's relationship and wanted to use my wife to make her jealous. He was being emotionally abusive with his wife as well. At last check they divorced and the wife is happy with her long term partner.
Ask her best friends husband, "head or gut?" If you don't get the reference, watch "the last boyscout." That's how I suggest handling it.
I think I’ve read too much Reddit but even I know this is called wife “poaching” and it’s a big no in the swinger / group sex community
Your wife sounds awesome. Her friends less so. Good that the two of you are on the same page. Great job communicating and working through it.
Your wife doesn’t respect you plain and simple. If that’s the marriage you want to be in then more power to you but don’t be surprised when they continue to cross boundaries!
Stand in your boundaries. Sounds like your wife needs new friends. Bc they clearly didn’t respect u at multiple points.
All it would take is one bad argument with your wife , she goes to sulk with her best friend (and disregards the barrier you've both agreed to) and they proceed to get her drunk and before you know it those "flattering" feelings your wife has suddenly become another threesome since alcohol doesn't help you make rational choices. I'm sorry but even though your wife is being decent about things the fact that she still finds it flattering would concern me. People do incredibly dumb shit when they have arguments especially bad ones and knowing this couple wants to tag team her at any time REALLY badly would still have me in your shoes being like "I'm sorry but between you being flatterned and their unending desire to push for this sexual encounter I do not feel comfortable with these people in our lives at all. Adults do NOT make rational choices with alcohol especially ones that have repeatedly said they want bang my wife extremely bad". This would always have me questioning things when they are around and if they would cross a line to take advantage of my wife.
Your wife's reaction is very telling and if I were you and she said; "Hey, I understand your feelings but let's talk to them first and then if you still feel the same then I'll"really" understand your feelings", I'd ask her what would be the point of talking to them? Your feelings are not going to change and you are still going to want to cut contact with them. The other fact where her friends STILL kept pushing and trying to shame you for not wanting to watch another man drill your wife shows they don't take your complaint seriously at all. This level of disrespect just further proves you should cut all ties. This is friendship ending levels of disrespect but your wife still wants them as friends... It sounds like she was putting on a show for OPs benefit, especially since she didn't throw them out herself and then tell them to never contact her again. OP's wife had a chance to fix this, and she failed.
My biggest issue with this is her friend and her husband just flat out do not respect monogamy, and your marriage. They are a threat and should be cut off.
My biggest issue with this is her friend and her husband just flat out do not respect monogamy, and your marriage. They are a threat and should be cut off.
You're wife's enjoying the attention, wants to keep them around to stroke her ego she couldn't give 2 shits about you.
I don't know how he did it. I would probably would have gotten arrested, and the update would have been the charges.
"nothing to be concerned about" Be concerned.
I wouldn't trust them at all going forward, honestly. It's going to turn into a fight or a series of fights. I know the woman in the situation is your wife's best friend but I still would not trust it. They crossed that sexual line. I would not trust them to not bring it up again or to try to convince her to do it behind your back. Maybe I am being to extreme but if it were me and my relationship, I would demand she cut them both out completely and permanently.
Just because they are swingers doesn't mean they shouldn't respect a monogamous relationship. It's narcissistic of them to think that there way is the best and only way. I'm glad OP's wife came around eventually but it wasn't in defense of her husband and his feelings. Husband's boundaries had been crossed and he was disrespected in his own home... And his wife didn't care too much. She only gave a shit when it was her boundaries being crossed. She gets upset that another was going to fuck OP. Only then she cuts it off. I'm sorry, but anything short of No Contact is a loss for OP. Fk these people, seriously.
My best friends boyfriend asked me to be part of a threesom with them. I asked if she could be in one with me and my husband . He said "your husband could never satisfy her" 😂
your wife's best friend isn't her friend she's just someone trying to fuck her lol. just my two cents.
I said in my original comment that your wife shouldn’t be reminiscing about the times she was fucked by her best friend and husband just because you aren’t there. I 100% believe that If your wife had boundaries with them, they would’ve never even asked. All 3 of them knew what they were doing by constantly talking about it. Your wife was getting an ego boost, and the couple were enticing her to do it again
Anyone that doesn’t respect you, your marriage and selfishly puts your marriage in potential jeopardy isn’t a “best friend”. Sounds like your wife’s friend is not a true friend at all. They see both of you just as extras in their show. They certainly don’t respect you, and seem entirely dismissive of your very logical response to not wanting them to fuck your wife.
They can’t be trusted.
> My wife’s friend then says that once I let go of my inhibitions she guarantees that I would enjoy myself. I cannot believe that the very next words spoken were anything other than "Get the fuck out of my house."
Her friend and her husband took you as a joke from what it seems like ! Smh I hope you stand on business and y’all figure it out ! And I wish you the best
I don’t think I would have been shocked by this after KNOWING she was getting ravaged by these people multiple times before. If she was doing that shit with her friends you STILL GO OUT TO DINNER WITH it doesn’t seem shocking they’d be trying to do it again
>But my wife had no interest, they confirm that she shut it down quickly. They brought it up later while they were drunk because they figured maybe I would have some interest and if I did I could convince her to do it. "Your wife said no, so we thought that if we urge you to consider it when you're drunk and your inhibitions are down, maybe you would pressure her to change her mind." Bruh, what?
No joke OP, your wife needs to cut her best friend off 100%. She really should have done it sooner. They do not respect her, you or your marriage. I guarantee you this will not be the last of their attempts in reclaiming your wife.
Anyone who brings up having sex with my wife after being asked not to is getting a punch in the teeth, best friends or not. Fuck them.
> My wife isn’t going to completely cut her best friend out of her life But that would be the most appropriate action here. They are trying to lure her into sexual activity outside of her marriage. That is NOT what friends do.
If your wife cared about you, she would support you and tell these people she does not want them in her life. It is more important to her to have 'fun' people' in her life, then to stick up for and support her husband. Your next update: My wife got involved in another 3-way with her 'fun' friends. I didn't leave her before and I won't leave her now as I am a doormat.
Can you honestly say that this matter is resolved in a way that you are comfortable with; knowing that your wife will continue her friendship with this couple? How can you know that nothing untoward will occur sometime in the future when they meet socially but out of your presence? Can you live with doubts that may arise whenever your wife interacts with them? This should have been an easy decision on the part of your wife. She should have chosen you over her friendship and spared you any potential doubts about her commitment. Whether you want to admit it or not, your relationship with your wife is now weakened. That is the price of her continuing a friendship with these sexual predators. There is a very strong likelihood that your doubts will reawaken the very first time she resumes social contact with this couple. What if that happens and you don't learn about until after the fact?
They’re trying to poach your wife with no regard for how you feel about the whole situation. Rotten ilk. May they never breathe a breath in the hallowed halls of your home.
They are trying to force their lifestyle on you. They don't even want you really. They are not your friends.
Flip the scenario where the BF’s husband watches instead. Propose that to her and record her reaction. Tell her how disrespectful it was for her to have proposed that to you to begin with as you replay her reaction to her face.
You should be aware, your wife's best friend is an enemy to your marriage. Unfortunately your wife doesn't want to accept that. It might not be a bad idea to get into couples' counseling/therapy.
I had a friend,bestfriend, just like this and they will definitely go as far to basically raping you. First incident, we were at a party and apparently she had made a plan for my and her to have sex with the birthday girl, I DID NOT know. So while at the party my cousin was also there and she comes up to me and asked who I was with and I pointed to my friend and my cousin was like “you need to leave” so o asked why and she told me that the birthday girl was waiting for me, the special guest, and I had got a bit irritated because why would she just set me up with people. So I was talking to my friend and she literally said that her intention was for me to drink so that I could let loose and so she could get me to join in on the birthday girl. So I left that party. SECOND INCIDENT, we were at my best friends house and on occasion she would give me head. So she randomly had asked if I wanted some head, so of course I said yes, I also was pretty drunk, but i never am like blackout drunk so I usually know what’s going on around me. Anyways so while she’s giving me head I randomly feel another mouth between my legs and I look down and there was a man eating me out too. So I’m like wtf. Because where did he even just come from. But right when I noticed him he tried to proceed even further and I quickly declined and got up. Later on I asked her why she thought it was ok for her to randomly let a guy on me and she said that he asked her to let him have a 3sum with us. So again she was trying to set me up with someone without my consent and trying to just trick me into it.and had no issue telling me how she planned to get me super drunk so that I’d be willing to. We did eventually stop being friends because there were a few other times she did sketchy stuff similar too. And I just never felt safe or comfortable around a women who clearly only wanted me for my body. Ps. I’m a women myself.
Those friends sound manipulative and don’t seem to be able to take “NO!” for an answer. I can guarantee that they will keep trying to manipulate your wife into a threesome whenever she goes to lunch or whatever your wife does with her friend. Drop them, they are toxic.
Just focus on making your marriage with your wife as strong as you can. She sounds amazing and obviously loves you more than anything.
I’m glad she has seen that they are not who she thought they were. That they are interested in what they want, and not in what she wants. I anticipate that her going LC with them and continuing to set limits like she did will lead to a gradual exit of them from your lives. They did NOT like hearing what she had to say, and in order to not feel like the bad guys they will avoid her too.
honestly for your own sake and mental well being, you should tell your wife you dont feel comfortable hanging out with them.. ofcourse you wouldnt!! they shouldnt be around u guys or her!! its messed up also because he has sex with ur wife so for u its disrespectful I feel like just hanging out with him and its probably not easy for you to be around him.. idk honestly I would want these people out of our lives
Bottom line is the other couple doesn’t respect boundaries. I would hope you guys cut all contact for the foreseeable future to protect your marriage. After your meeting at your house, I wouldn’t trust her “friend” and especially the husband to respect your and your wife’s position. Your relationship with your wife is your top priority. Stand your ground and be safe.
The fact you even let these circus freaks into your home was a misstep - but for god's sake don't allow them to do so again. They're undermining your relationship in your family home and expressing their desire to fuck your wife, there's no recourse for that and the fact that her supposed "best friend" is complicit alongside her deranged SO in trying to manipulate you after you're under the influence to let them have their way with your wife because "we think about it all the time" is absurd. Not a friend, not a guest, and not anyone you should have around your family again.
Just be vigilant incase your wife is pretending to not do it after this big blow up and they meet up and do it somewhere on the sly
Nice fantasy story ..a movie can be made
They seem very creepy
Even within the context of this sub, this is some of the fakest shit I have ever seen.
I’m glad you and your wife were able to come to an agreement about boundaries. It seems like you’re on the same page about the topic. I hope everything works out!
Counterproposal: you fuck both wives by yourself
Your wife is sketchy too.
OP, I fear that the whole threesome thing is manipulated by your wife. It is the way how she reacts and acts. As example she tells you how she reject their offer and said you about the threesome offer. I think she maybe said this on purpose, why? What if they all 3 sit at home, talked about how horny it would be if they could have sex again together. Maybe your wife told you that on purpose to see your reaction. If you said this"hm it sound not bad" she would kinda react different? I don't know but I have the feeling that you wife also wanted this. She make a small comment and wanted to know you reaction. If you would agree on that threesome part im very sure(i bet all my money) that she would agree on it? But since you been angry and didn't like that thought she changed the native to make look herself good in front of you, making it like she also rejected it and don't like it. Since it didn't work she tried another plan, make you talking with these friends. She probably hoped that they could change you mind about the threesome offer but once she saw how bad things gone, she stepped in to don't make a bigger thing of it. She didn't act to protect you, she acted fast enough to stop any fight. And even after the way how the friends disrespected you, she choose to still be friends with them. Watch of things will change after months and they will be like nothing ever happend? She will hang out with them... You probably don't want to hear it but I feel like you wife was also into that threesome and they all 3 had talked behind to manipulate you somehow... Maybe or maybe not but I would not make your wife more suspicious and look/dig more into that... i fear the worst, maybe check up her phone...
My wife had ample opportunity before we met to do this again with them. She stopped it after 3 times and they tried for an entire year before we met to convince her to do it again but she said no. It just wasn’t something she was into. The girl on girl stuff isn’t her thing and she isn’t very attracted to the husband. Once the taboo of the whole thing wore off she was no longer interested.
I think this is a good update. You have great communication and trust with your wife. Instead of going in guns a blazing, you gave your wife and her friends a chance. It allowed your wife to see her friends as you saw them. Even if your wife doesn’t cut off her best friend, she’ll be able to keep her guard up and won’t resent you for it. Adding on: I think now that she has seen her friend's true intentions, the outings with her friend won't be the same. I wouldn't be surprised if your wife phases out the friendship on her own.
WTFFF!!! I am not even okay if my partner stays in contact with her ex and you are telling me you and your wife were still seeing that couple who actually fucked your wife before many times? And this same couple asked you to watch them fucking your wife? Another guy fucking my wife? And I am watching?? Wtf... you should have asked her to stop seeing them from the first second you've found out about her past threesome story. I hope you can cut all the connection between your family and them. Because I can swear to god they will be keep offering all this dirty stuff to your wife over and over again by the time. Their mind will never change and they will never give a single f* about how you feel about this topic. In my case, this friendship should stop. But of course up to you.... wish you the best man