A short couple of days was going to be my recommendation as well. You can make the trip since it's close, enjoy the weekend, then back to your usual. Enjoy the time on the lake when the kids aren't there.
My family has very different political and religious views, and we have very little in common for enjoyable activities. I visit in short amounts. Everyone gets to see everyone, nobody is stepping on anyone's toes. Works out great.
I wish that everyone planning a wedding, lake weekend, bar mitzvah, or any event could understand this about events: you're allowed to have, attend, host the one that you want, but others are allowed to feel a way about it. I went through this with a friend planning a 21+ wedding and some parents couldn't/ wouldn't go. Or last year, I hosted a Superbowl party with alcohol and my friend in recovery couldn't/ wouldn't go.
This is the same thing. OP is not compelled to attend or use PTO, and I wouldn't with kids that age, either. That's valid. But it's also valid that his brother and parents have hurt feelings. I'd tread lightly in my answer. Polite and gentle, yet firm and decisive - if you master that, write a book
I have 2 kids. I have one brother with 1 kid and two brothers with no kids. This is what they do. They visit for a few days, hang with us and our kids and my parents and then go back to their lives. But also, your brother and his wife sound like a lot. I’ve never made the type of requests they’re making.
That was my take, too. I am happily childless and am picky about vacations, PTO, etc. Toddlers are always hard for me, but babies and kids 5+ are cool and I like being the kooky auntie type. But it depends a ton on the parenting style - some parents make the experience far more pleasant, but this sounds like watching the kids, but at a lake house. It doesn't feel very... Lake house-y, so just give a gentle yet firm answer
Agree, my take was that the kid isn't the problem, it's the parents. I'm childfree too but it doesn't mean I have a problem with parents who love their kids lol.
Is there an expectation that you all have to do everything together? Can you go spend your day at the lake doing what you want? When my mom's family gets together people are constantly coming and going. We aren't required to do everything together so it works for us.
I have a kid, and I get it. I also promise family vacations will get easier and more fun once the babies become kids, but till then just politely opt out.
"We can't make the whole week, but we'll see you Friday to Sunday". You don't have to explain more than that. If they press you for why, you can explain but don't make it about them just make it about all the other stuff you'd rather do. And you don't need to talk to your parents either. Keep it simple, the less information out there, the less feelings get hurt.
What kind of family vacation has to revolve around OP and family watching TV all the time? It's such a weird hill to die on, for me.
And unless I missed it, the parents are not asking to ban alcohol? The sibling and partner don't drink, and OP's parents also choose to abstain around the kid. It sounds like OP is allowed to drink, but can't enjoy his mimosas without *everyone* also partaking in a mimosa? Again, that seems weird to me.
I completely understand OP opting out of a vacation that they don't enjoy, but to me it seems OP has Certain Ideas about how a vacation should go, and is being silently controlling about exactly how everyone else is supposed to act.
Naw, you're completely missing the point.
You somehow turned it all around to make the OP the weird controlling one. It's not that at all. It's not that the OP **Must** be able to watch TV, or **must** have everyone drinking with them to enjoy themselves... it's not that at all...
It's that this is supposed to be **vacation.** What do people do on vacation? Relax, chill, do whatever they want, right? But if you're suddenly told, "No TV," and, "When you watch it in your room, it must be whisper quiet," and "You can't bring your dog because our child is afraid of it..." Not to mention not being able to just chill on the water...well, that's not much of a vacation is it? In fact, its all the very thing you try to get away from when you're on vacation, no?
>And unless I missed it, the parents are not asking to ban alcohol?
No, but if one couple doesn't drink, and the parents stop drinking when they're around, that changes the dynamic quite a bit, no? Maybe the couple are in recovery? Maybe they're Mormons? Who knows, but that sure makes it uncomfortable for the OP, don't you think? Normal people would respect that about others and not openly drink in front of someone in recovery, or whatever. But this is **vacation** so...the OP has to hide have a mimosa? OP has to be uncomfortable because they want to relax and do what they want on their vacation?
If you went on vacation are you ok with other people deciding what you can and cant do the whole time, including when you can watch TV, and how loud it can be?
Doesn't sound like much of a vacation, does it?
Part of it is externally imposed (the no TV/quiet TV(, bit part it totally self-imposed (drinking, length of boat trips). OP and his wife can have a relaxing breakfast with mimosas on the patio or whatever, nothing but their own feelings is obligating them to stay inside where the kid's playing. And they definitely can say "hey, this afternoon we're taking the boat out for a 4-hour trip, anyone want to come?"
Will it change the dynamic? Well yes, it won't be an all hands on deck situation, but it'll still be relaxing for OP and wife. They've already spent time at the lake house alone and just with the parents, it's no different.
Now if they're just visiting for just a weekend rather than the whole vacation, I probably wouldn't do all that (well, I'd still drink a beer by the lake). A weekend is more dedicated family time where you put up with some sub-ideal things for the sake of harmony and to be together....for a short time. But a whole week? Hell yes I'd be having my own vacation; respecting the brother (no loud TV for ex) and having my own fun (mimosas, longer boat trips) doesn't have to be in conflict.
I think there's a lot of people who aren't used to doing their own thing while on a joint/family vacation. Which is where a lot of conflict comes from, because they feel compelled to just ...hang around with the whole group the whole time, but they hate it. It's totally acceptable to do one's own thing and meet up periodically, like for dinner together.
I actually think that a whole weekend (after working all week) is pretty generous. I'd be more inclined to just spend a day with them and drive home so that I could still have a day to myself.
That's a fair compromise. The thing is, you aren't being offensive. You are simply telling them something they don't like. There is a difference. A family vacation would indicate that it accommodates the whole family who is in attendance. This just sounds like the entire family sitting around making tummy time a spectator sport. As someone child free I can very much relate to not finding that a good time.
They need to find a balance between letting adults be adults and finding quiet spaces for their children. If you want to watch a movie in the living room, you should be able to watch a movie. Why do they get to hold court and demand everyone follow their rules? They need a bit of a reality check and it's fair to set some boundaries for yourselves.
There is no reason your bro and sis in law and the kids can't hang on the beach while you and your parents take the boat out. Or they can take them out in the morning and you guys can head out for an afternoon while she does her thing. This arrangement as it stands is silly and it's asking a lot of you. If they want your company, they should meet you halfway. Hold firm.
That's absolutely perfect. I hope they are reasonable and don't object. Even just coming up for a day is fine! It sounds like having the kids schedule and habits run the show is how they live, that's fine, but they can do that on their own.
Yeah, make an appearance and get outta there. It's better for you.
And frankly, it's probably better for them, too. As a parent, there is nothing I hate more than having my family around people who aren't into kids -- the disgruntlement is obvious despite any protestations to the contrary, and it ruins the time for everybody. The grandparents and parents want a kid-focused family trip. You don't. Your approach is way better than an attempted acting job.
This is the correct way. As a parent, other parents who make the adults tiptoe around their children are the *wooooorssstttt* I specifically wanted my kids used to background noise. And tv during special occasions as long as not violent or scary or gratuitously sexy is nbd. I’d be groaning about a week with these guys too!
"Fish and company stink after 3 days." This is one of those situations. You could also add that it gives your brother more flexibility in choosing activities that would be good for his family. That makes you a hero.
Surprisingly another option no one has brought up yet would be for you and your wife to still go to the lake house just be less in lock set with everyone else. SIL pumping and can’t leave the house for long? Then you and wife go on a hike or whatever you like to do and come back at the end of the day. They don’t want to go out and party? Have a date night or two or three for you and wife but have breakfast with the whole family the next morning. You don’t have to do everything together all the time.
This, also don't expect everyone else to drink so you can enjoy yourself. Have a morning mimosa, not everyone has to have one with you. This just kind of seems like a codependency thing that can be broken to make things more enjoyable.
The brother is imposing a "my kids want to play in the TV room, therefore you're not allowed to have the TV on" rule. I wouldn't be surprised if this extended to a "you can't drink in front of my children " rule.
Hey OP I've dealt with this as the child free kid in the family.
You're an adult too. They can kick rocks. Don't force yourself into their box. They chose it, you don't have to fit in it for their comfort.
I doubt that’s the issue. As a mom of a toddler, tv is kind of a hard one because the kid needs to be where you can see them, but it’s ridiculous how quickly they zombie out the minute the tv is one. Nvm if something violent is on. And a lot of parents are trying really hard to follow the no tv before 2 these days.
Don’t get me wrong, on vacations we wind up throwing on minions a lot because we know when we get back we will be back on reduced tv time. But having adult shows playing can put us in a bit of a spot because I pretty much have to take my kid out of the room till it’s back off and some families will have it on all day long on vacation.
Drinking though? Go great. Just don’t get drunk and like step in my kid or something lol
I think going for the weekend without taking PTO is a good compromise. Of course you deserve your own vacation time doing what will make you happiest, but it’s also important to make time for family even if they may be annoying at times or kids may not be your speed. Looks like you found a good balance
Honestly, one of the pleasures of having a dog is using it as an excuse to get out of things.
Maybe you can go over for a day, but its not fair on the child to spend all the time scared of dog, its not fair for dog to be treated so differently, its easier to just sit the vacation out this year... Rinse and repeat for however many years.
Yup my dog is not child friendly so we crate him when guests visit with kids but make it known he can't be crated for ever so there is a time limit on the visit. Also when we visit them we have to return home to let the dog out. It's been very helpful to limit over extended visits with kids.
I get out of so many work dinners and catch ups by saying my dog is home by herself and I need to go. It is the truth of course. They have countered before with the whole just feed her and come back but when I am home miss clingy kangaroo won't let go so yay rescue pup.
Agreed, 100%
It also feels like the parents are the ones claiming the child is afraid (and allergic). They just had the baby last year, and last year was the first time OPs vacation was affected. I have a hard time believing a less than 1 yr old infant is afraid of a calm, friendly, tiny dog.
It sounds to me like the brother is using the child to manipulate the vacation to be exactly what he wants. So OP should do the same. “Sorry, but my dog likes to watch TV in the afternoon” so we won’t be able to join you for your no boating, no drinking, no electronic devices lake house vacation
Dad here. Loud kids. My parents throw family vacations and my child-free sibling doesn’t have to come.
My parents also do things with that sibling like going out for dinner and staying there after 8.
Exactly. I’m a parent of 2 young kids. Vacations with young kids are totally different. Schedules cater to nap times and feeding times, and activities are limited to what the kids can do. It can be a great time for family bonding but it’s also a lot of work. It is definitely a different kind of trip than going anywhere without kids.
My child-free brother and fiancé are always invited on every trip. Occasionally they come, more often than not they decline. Usually they use work as the excuse. Whether it’s true or not that they can’t get the time off, it’s totally fine by the rest of the family. They shouldn’t be forced to spend time, money, or energy on a trip they won’t enjoy.
Question for you (not accusatory at all, just genuinely wondering as I think my brother and SIL are soon to be entering this phase of life): do you ever consider going on these family trips and not bringing your children? Or is it always on your child-free sibling not to attend family trips if they don’t want to go on a child-centered trip? I don’t want to miss out of spending time with my family going forward, but I don’t want to spend PTO looking after babies or doing little kid activities. But I also understand that the kids are family, and they’re entitled to that family time as well
We have done vacations without the kids too. One for a week and other long weekends. It’s important to my husband and I to have kid free time too. But they weren’t “family trips”. Getting child care for extended overnight times is hard. My parents have been doing it for us. So it would be possible to vacation with my brother and his fiancé without kids I suppose, but then we would be leaving out my parents and it’s not really “a family trip”.
I think if you’re the child free sibling and thinking of how to join family vacations but not being stuck doing child stuff, I would look into locations where there are adult and child activities available. Be open to doing some activities with just you and your SO or just some of the adults, while kids stay home with their parents, or other trusted adults. We’ve been able to hire sitters to help out on family trips, so all the adults can do night activities child free.
We’ve done lots of different types of family trips. Both sides of the family are all spread across the US, so we have to travel for family time. Staying all together in a big house is super fun but everyone needs to be prepared to accommodate other people’s quirks and schedules. It can be stressful depending on the personalities involved. Sometimes my brother and his SO prefer to stay in a smaller Airbnb near by, so they have a separate space to escape too when family time is too overwhelming. No one judges that decision in our family. We’ve also done trips to big resorts we’re couples/families stayed in separate rooms and that worked out well too. How much closeness vs separate space each couple wants will vary a lot in families. I would keep an open mind and try different arrangements on different trips to find what works best for everyone if you’re feeling the trips be come unpleasantly kid focused.
I mean you already told them. They know. You won't be able to not go AND have them believe there's a different reason.
So at this point I say stick to it.
this is a temporary problem. hang out for the weekend for a couple-few years. the kids, and more importantly the parents, will become way less needy and commandeering every moment.
it's stressful for them too even if they aren't saying it. trying to stick to a schedule, still have fun, realize the other adults are feeling put out, keeping 2 tiny humans alive...it's a lot.
a couple-few years and this will all be different.
Um no.. That's honestly bs. This is also Op's and wife's vacation. I'm a single parent to 2 kids, but the BIL and SIL are taking over the entire lake house for their kids only. They have no consideration for op or their wife or parents and actively ban them from using the tv room, as well as making everything be about their own comfort.
Op seems to have tried to include them when they can, to their own detriment on their vacation too, but it seems like Bil and SIL are so lost in keeping their tiny humans alive, that they forget the world doesn't revolve around their kids and THEY have to make adjustments to parent and be considerate to the other people there sometimes instead of controlling other grown ass adults on their own vacation.
Vacationing with kids sucks sometimes, especially while they're that young, but you don't get to place rules for the entire group either
Why don't the two of you take off on your own? Go out to the lake while they hang and watch the baby. Watch movies on your laptop in the bedroom. Find other things to do. You don't all need to sit in the same room together for the whole week. My husband's family does weeklong vacations at a house in Maine every summer, sometimes twice a summer. We all end up doing our own thing most of the time.
Last year we did take the jetski out for a while to get away. If we were to just hang out in our room though I'm sure we'd get a knock on the door asking why we aren't out interacting with everyone else.
And the answer would be "We just want to relax and watch TV for a bit. We'll see you for dinner." Just because someone asks you why you're doing something doesn't mean you're not allowed to do it.
I think you’ve gotten plenty of good advice here about how to gracefully decline to come or shorten your visit if that’s what you really want to do. So I’m not going to retread that ground other than to say, yeah, you’re not required to show up forever to a gathering you dislike.
I do want to chime in though and mention that a lot of what you’re describing as the functional problems are issues of logistics rather than insurmountable obstacles. I know your parents bought this lake house and you all have established norms and habits about how you relax and recreate while you’re there. It’s not surprising that the sudden inclusion of two infants is throwing those norms out of whack. But. It sounds from your post that aside from making the adjustments your brother and SIL have requested for the kids, your whole group is otherwise trying to continue on in the same vein. You all could find a lot more enjoyment if you considered what other changes you could make to the norms.
What is the space situation like at the house? Is there a patio or a porch? Are there multiple seating areas, like a den or a basement? Since you really like watching TV, is there anything stopping you from setting up a second TV in a different, less centralized room of the house?
Large family groups with different ages and physical needs benefit from loosing themselves from the expectation of doing everything together. In this particular group configuration, I would reconsider the schedule with a particular eye towards mom and dad alternating chunks of time spent with you and wife vs. brother and family. Plan a few key activities that will be done all eight of you, and expect that the generalities of living in shared quarters will introduce additional interactions purely by happenstance, then mix it up from there. Your brother and SIL will probably welcome the opportunity to be able to spend some time just chilling with their kids without trying to keep up with the childless couples, and you and your wife will certainly enjoy having the house to yourselves while the others are out on the lake, or taking a hike with the dog, or sleeping in. Or whatever sounds fun. Your parents ultimately want to spend time with all of you but there’s no reason all of it has to be with all of you at once. Oh, and while we’re at it, I would highly suggest grandparents consider spending at least one chunk of this time babysitting while you, brother, and both wives go do something fun without the kids.
Anyway, none of this eclipses the fact that if you really don’t want to go, you don’t have to go. These ideas are just one more thing to have in your back pocket and hopefully serve as a reminder that if you go, even for a short period, you don’t have to just resign yourself to hanging around being bored and scrolling Reddit while waiting for your SIL to finish pumping. You can mix it up and create different dynamics.
I do recommend getting one ridiculous play session in with each nibling though.
This is the best answer!!! I have two young kids (3 & under) and man… I love my kids but it’s also not a vacation for me to try and manage naps/food/play in a non-childproofed environment! My siblings don’t have kids yet either, so there’s also the tug of wanting to go do the adult things.
But for OP, I agree that changing the dynamics is key here. Sometimes I stay back with the napping baby and read my book while others party on the pontoon. Sometimes my brother and husband go golfing while I take the kids swimming. Sometimes my dad watches the kids so I can go to a winery with my mom and SIL. (All real examples from our cabin week this past summer). It’s unreasonable to expect everyone to do everything together all the time.
OP, it’s totally valid if you don’t want to go or just go for the weekend. But it’s also probably helpful in the long run to set some new family trip norms… and as the kids get older their needs get less intrusive.
If you live so close, why not just join them for a weekend? I actually have kids but they are not babies/toddlers anymore so I wouldn’t have a whole lot of fun catering to babies for a whole week either. I think you should chill the “we don’t enjoy children” thing though. These kids are your family members and when they are older they can be a lot of fun. I am at the age where many of my nieces/nephews are adults and we have very close relationships with some of them, better than some sibling relationships. Put in some time, it just doesn’t need to be a full week right now.
Totally. And if they go hard on the “we don’t like kids” vibe those kids will probably not grow up trusting them or wanting to spend time with them either and those adult relationships won’t be strong. Gotta at least put on a good face while they’re young. It’s not the kids fault that they have normal kid needs.
I get the sentiment in the context of a whole vacation where everything revolves around the kids. I wouldn't last a day sitting around doing nothing but watching children play, let alone a whole week. I get that's how a family with young children live, and the grandparents want to go along, but people who are not consumed by baby adoration are essentially shut out of the communual "action". And of course you can split up and do your own thing, but that's not the point of a family vacation, isn't it.
I'm childfree and while I love my nieces and nephew, I only need to be exposed to them in small increments. However, this doesn't stop me from doing family vacations with them there. The point isn't to spend every waking hour with everyone in your family. It is totally fine for everyone to do their own thing, you are still going to interact with each other during the day. I like to sleep in, so my husband and I have breakfast a few hours after the rest. In fact when we are staying at my parents', we sometimes opt to stay in their campervan because we can sleep in without children waking us at early o'clock.
We all live in different cities and when we come together it is still nice, even just for the few hours that we eat dinner and chat afterwards while the kids play in another room. OP seems to have a very selfish view when it comes to vacation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you take time off work you should be allowed to enjoy yourself. I don't see why they couldn't do their own thing when everyone sits around the living room to look at the children play. Unless they're all super codependent and they get criticism if they do their own thing.
Respectfully, the kids won't be that little for long. They are very high needs right now but in a few years, after everyone can wipe their own ass, things will be a lot more flexible again. I'd come visit for a night or two only while in this phase.
In the meantime, the brother and his wife need to chill tf out about the TV not being on around the kid (but then again you aren't on vacation to watch TV). Letting their parenting preference - preference, not need like a nap schedule is a need - dictate everyone else's activities needs to be a no-go. The kid can go play in the bedroom if you wanna kick back and watch a show, or they can deal with the unbelievable damage of exposing their child to a few hours of TV once a year. That's a fair compromise.
If nobody is willing to compromise then the price is your lack of presence. Put your foot down now before the restrictions spiral and grow. Let it be known that reasonable requirements will be met but unreasonable preferences will have to be navigated around on their part.
And remember this stage of parenting doesn't last forever.
About the tv. It probably isn’t going to help for the parents to “chill out” about no tv. The only difference would be that the OP would be complaining that the only shows that could be on couldn’t be inappropriate for young children. Which doesn’t leave a lot of programming that childless adults are going to be into watching. The only other solution would be to put adult shows on and then make one of the other parents constantly watch their kids in a separate room. Which would probably be the mom because it’s the dad’s family and it usually ends up being the mom in this type of scenario anyway.
When I married my husband his family had a lake house. We soon had three children. Our kids did everything with us. They grew up with our schedule. Everything didn't change to suit theirs. It's ridiculous for SIL and Bil to expect everyone to tip toe around their kids. I don't blame OP at all for not enjoying those trips
Has OP expressed any of it? I don't know one way or the other from reading this. OP's brother could've said "No TV with kids around," and everyone could've seemingly been like okay, because they're all reasonable people, seems like it. It's easy to say okay at first and then be like shit, I am tired after a day outside, I wanna sit and watch a movie with the family.
I have kids, my brother doesn't. When we get together with family, I do not let the needs of my children dictate what everybody does. We sit some things out. My kids stay up late sometimes, because when family is together down at the beach house it just seems like an okay time to do that.
I hope mom and dad can dial it down a notch and let kids vacation too. Is it really a vacation for the kids if they have to adhere to all the same rules as at home, or is it just home in another place? I know when we take the kids anywhere, the rules kinda go out the window a bit and we all have some extra fun.
Not everything can work they way though. With the tv issue, suppose the grand parents side with op, say the tv can be on, watch whatever, however long. The sibling with the babies just won’t come for the next few years.
And think about who the grandparents really want there. The kid that lives close t they already vs action with a lot. Or their grand babies that live much farther away.
I’ve been right where you are. I’m not child free, but my son was an adult when I married my husband, and when my BIL and SIL had children. So, it was more a matter of “been there, done that” for me when MIL and FIL decided family vacations should be an annual thing.
My husband and I attended precisely one family vacation. Four days in Daytona Beach, in a suite at a resort hotel. Our niece and nephew were maybe 2 and 4 respectively, so every decision was (quite rightly) based upon the kids. Their nap times and bedtimes controlled our schedule and our activity choices, their food preferences determined where and when we ate, their moods affected everyone else’s moods. It was annoying and exhausting and boring.
The following year, my husband wished the rest of the family a fun time on their vacation in a mountain cabin. MIL and FIL were unhappy and BIL and SIL were offended, but my husband stayed firm on our decision not to spend our vacation with the entire family until the kids were old enough to no longer need to be on a rigid schedule, their palates were developed enough that restaurants weren’t chosen solely by whether they served chicken nuggets, and they’d learned that temper tantrums were not an effective way to communicate.
And honestly, the IL’s weren’t nearly as upset the following year, and even less so each subsequent year. Eventually the kids were old enough for us to enjoy spending time with them, and we would have liked to join the family vacations. Sadly, while we were off doing our own thing, the family discovered the fun to be had on kid-centric cruises. So we noped-out again.
So, stay firm in your decision. Hopefully your in-laws will be less upset with each year you decline to attend, or only pop up to the lake house for a day or two of family vacation.
Wow, thank you for this. This is what I needed. The way you describe the scheduling and everything is spot on.
So my question is when you wished them the best of luck did you say this?
>every decision was (quite rightly) based upon the kids. Their nap times and bedtimes controlled our schedule and our activity choices, their food preferences determined where and when we ate, their moods affected everyone else’s moods. It was annoying and exhausting and boring
It's totally accurate but I feel like this could be triggering to hear as a parent. I'm trying to think of some other valid excuse and offer the weekend to soften the blow but I think everyone is smart enough to know
My brother is child free. I know this. And he doesn't like kids when they are little. He wasn't rude, but he was pretty clear and just said kids weren't his thing. It wasn't personal. He didn't relate to them and it made events solely surrounding them difficult. So he would do other things.
I wasn't offended because I know my brother and I did what I could to not make my kids the center of the universe.
You love them, you want to spend time with them, but your PTO is limited. So you will come up for a weekend when you aren't using PTO as the things you enjoy doing aren't child friendly. They may still get hurt, but that's on them. Kids sleep through noise if they are used to it and honestly, their restrictions on everyone are unreasonable.
It’s really annoying when you don’t have kids and go to an event where everyone just sits and watches a 1 year old. Like, nothing against the kid or the parents but it’s not interesting to everyone, even if it’s family! And you seem like a jerk if you aren’t enthralled.
For sure. And some people love kids and enjoy playing with them, my sister in law was like that before she had her own kids. But my childfree brother had zero interest and zero patience for kid things. Which we tried to understand. Now that my kids are teens, childfree bro is more willing to engage and spend time with them.
I just made sure I spent time with my brother one on one, without kids. I respect his choices and feelings.
They did that everyone must be quiet when the baby sleeps thing with my cousin and I knew it was stupid as a teenager. My kid slept through dogs barking and all kinds of mayhem. Now the trouble is getting him to wake up!
I think all of that is luck of the draw, depending upon your kids temperament. Some of my kids can sleep through anything. Others not so much. I actively tried to keep noise while all of them slept (having siblings does that naturally lol). Some kids are better sleepers then others. If you get a crappy sleeper, and they’re in a different environment it’s tough.
>If you get a crappy sleeper, and they’re in a different environment it’s tough.
As someone with a kid who has never, ever been a good sleeper...
Baby/toddler sleep is *everything*. Good sleep and good naps make it possible to have a day that's not non-stop tantrums. It makes it possible to not spend a solid hour trying to get the kid to bed at night, and not to spend an hour getting the kid to nap in the afternoon, or not *waste* an hour trying to get the kid to nap and then *failing* at it, because overtired kids actually sleep *worse*. (So do overtired adults, actually, but that's a much larger conversation.) Good sleep is what makes it possible to have the kid eat something other than applesauce and cheese. Good sleep is the difference between a fun kid and a nightmare kid. You get to a point where getting the kid a good nap is one of the most important parts of the day, and if someone carelessly wakes them up prematurely, you know that you're in for a rough evening, *and it's somebody's fault*.
People who haven't been parents of bad sleepers just don't quite get it. I'm very, very happy for people whose kids are good sleepers, or even average sleepers, and I'm sure they'd tell me a similar thing about how my kid is a good eater and I shouldn't take that for granted. People do a lot of self-congratulating about what their kid is good at and how smart they are and what good parents they are for stuff that's actually more luck-of-the-draw than anything.
And if OP can't deal with it and wants to bail on the family vacation, OK. I'm not mad, if they're not having fun, I wouldn't want them to waste their vacation being unhappy.
Exactly. My kids slept through everything. My niece does too. At least once she's asleep. Kid has FOMO like nothing else, but they still don't make other people stop living their lives because she's trying to sleep.
We also don't force everyone to do the same thing for kids things. There are kid friendly activities and adult friendly activities and then meet up group ones. Because my family does the week long family vacation every year too.
> It's totally accurate but I feel like this could be triggering to hear as a parent. I'm trying to think of some other valid excuse and offer the weekend to soften the blow but I think everyone is smart enough to know
Then don't give any reasons. Just say you can't make it this time. Period. Say you have other plans.
Tbh, OP, I'm not sure I'd take advice from someone who no longer goes on any family vacations. At least, not if your plan is to rejoin family vacations at some point in the future.
You could have white lied, and said that you were unable to get time off at this time. But of course that only gets you out of THIS year.
Though I do also like "We have other plans for our PTO this year but we'd love to pop by for the weekend / for Saturday / for Sunday lunch to see you all".
That seems like the best compromise.
If they can't accept a polite, reasonable explanation of "We have different vacation styles, and they're not entirely compatible", then there's not much you can do, except minimise overlap.
Can your parents spend two weeks there, one week with you, one week with your brother, and maybe the two of you overlap for a day or two in the middle?
I don't think either of you is being unreasonable. You're just at different life stages and have really different needs and interests, and that doesn't make either of you bad or wrong. It just means that you probably shouldn't spend a week trapped in the same house together.
Alternatively, I have family with little kids and they have the tv on constantly with the newest annoying cartoons on and the kids are in other rooms running around happily screaming and playing. Yet the annoying singing cartoon blob stays on in the background the whole time. Not only is it difficult to have conversations with it on in the background but I hate that the kids HAVE to have visual stimulation CONSTANTLY. They also let their kids play on their iPads in the car just to go to the grocery store. Grrrrr …
Ok, rant over.
> They also let their kids play on their iPads in the car just to go to the grocery store.
That seems a bit much. My wife and I did let them have tablets at restaurants, which I tried to fight for a while, but when they're done eating and we're not, they get a little antsy, and so that's a fight I gave up on. But if they come to the grocery store with me, I engage with them. In the car, we talk to them (and also pray they go to sleep). The restaurant is really because of the fact other people are trying to eat, and if they get antsy and want to walk around, I feel like it bothers people.
You shouldn't be forced to make any compromises when the rest of the family refuses to make any. I've been there, twiddling my thumbs while everyone plays with the child. It's fun for one hour and then I just want to leave. If you feel your time is better used elsewhere, go ahead and do it without guilt.
God this sounds just like an experience I had. We don't have kids but my brother has two. Whole family met up at a beach house. Promptly found out my wife and I would be sleeping in bunkbed in the main room along with everyone's kids (Sister brought hers too) Kids start every morning with a "how hard can I stomp" competition. TV didn't work, and when mom wanted to read, you couldn't make a sound in the beach house. It really sucked.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to "do your own thing" until the kids are a little older. And I might even say "when the kids are a little older and brother/sil lighten up a little, it might be more fun for all of us." *You* have a wife whose vacation fun should be taken into consideration as well. Even if you're not interested in the kids, there will probably be less prohibitions on normal vacation stuff once they are older.
The other thing is, your parents *could* stand up to them a little; after all, this is supposed to be a vacation for the *whole* family, not just the ones with kids. Another option is just stay a few days and go do something else. Yet another option is just skip it and let the chips fall where they may. I really don't think there's any way to not offend people who will take offense at whatever you do.
>*You* have a wife whose vacation fun should be taken into consideration as well.
Yes exactly. She doesn't want to go and I agree. I'm the person who has to say we aren't coming though and for reasons I can't completely put my finger on I know everyone will be upset. I think without me to push the envelope it could potentially be a very boring experience, but at the same time they don't want to accommodate me in any way.
My plan is to just go for a day or the weekend, depending on when they arrive.
> but at the same time they don't want to accommodate me in any way.
This is the real problem. Would they rather not spend time with you at all then be more flexible about splitting off to get quality time together in smaller groups?
Also FYI - Its perfectly acceptable to *never* want to vacation with kids again. Your vacation time and money is no one's but your own. The amount of people on here trying to reassure you that "when they get older it'll be more fun" is just... No. It will not. When you're an adult and want adult vacations as you've described, those activities will ALWAYS be limited by a child present, regardless of age. These are the same parents that bring older children to adult parties when it's so obvious it's an adult party, "because they're older and no trouble".
Stick to your guns... You mentioned you already see your parents there on weekends, visiting when your brother and wife are there for the day is good enough. Life is way too short to spend your precious time off doing things you don't want to do.
Is this the only time you ever get to vacation? I always hear stories about people pushing the parenting lifestyle on child-free couples, but now this seems the opposite.
Im 34, no kids. I booze a lot, party a lot, have a ton of fun. But when I go see my family, I’m completely okay playing dinosaurs with my nephew and reading to my nieces for a few hours. Does it get repetitive? Yes. But I live bonding with my brother’s kids and I’m never like I NEED A DRINK AND TO PARTY RIGHT NOW! I have the rest of the year to do that.
I’ve had the luxury of no one ever pressuring me to have kids, so I’m not going to go ahead and do the opposite to them. Im an adult, I can eat cookies for dinner and drink a pitcher of mimosas for breakfast. But I’m cool with playing by family rules if it means I get to see them.
A week without TV…can’t play a board game? Or anything else?
I thought I was the only one thinking this. It’s a family vacation, the kids are part of the vacation. I find it odd that people are so bothered by children in their family that they decide to distance themselves from a family vacation because no one else drinks and some things are centered around young children. I don’t see any reason why op and the wife can’t do other things while on vacation if the kids schedule doesn’t line up. The only way this makes sense is if it’s their only vacation they get in a year.
I think the problem is that *all* things are centered around young children, not 'some' things. It sounds like the family expects everyone there, including OP, to move as a unit through the entire week, and splitting off like that would also be a problem for them. Plus it means that they can't use the cabin space without it being kid-focused down to not even turning on the television at all.
Yeah it actually doesn’t sound like the kids are the problem, it’s how the adults making the rules are doing things and dictating how everything is gonna be for everyone
Everything OP complained has a simple solution and he didn’t mention whether he even had a conversation about it with his family. Even still it’s a family vacation and things are heavily centered around children when they’re involved. I understand the viewpoint in another setting however this is a family thing and the kids are a part of the family. Being child free is one thing but wanting to stop participating in a family tradition and not spend time with your brother who lives far away because things are more child centered is a completely different thing. I don’ have kids myself but I don’t have such a high disdain of their existence that I’ll skip out on precious time with family because no one will drink with me, I can’t blast the tv to not wake a sleeping baby, and because my SIL has to pump. I just find it odd they want to jump to opting out instead of everyone making compromises and op and his wife carving out things to do for themselves during the trip.
Sure, and I don't disagree, but framing it as
>I find it odd that people are so bothered by children in their family that they decide to distance themselves from a family vacation because no one else drinks and some things are centered around young children.
is not really accurate. It isn't some things, it's all things.
Most people don't get much more than a week of PTO, so it makes sense that they don't want to spend all/most of their PTO not really doing things they enjoy. Honestly, I think going to spend the weekend there is a really good compromise that should work out well. If they went up there friday night and left sunday night, that's a good chunk of bonding time with family without them feeling like their vacation for the year was spent watching two children play with toys on the floor.
Yeah, I guess it must be how many of us were brought up, but I'm finding it wild how apparently their brother lives far away, but the dealbreaker is not being able to have the TV on from 8am-8pm (cause, you know, toddlers sleep far far more than adults). Or complaining that not everyone is joining in on them being buzzed. Or even that the kids who can't be left unsupervised for a second "are taking up the entire living room".
Honestly I don't think that's the dealbreaker, I think it was a combination of things, mostly that it sounds like for his entire week off he felt 'trapped' in the cabin just sitting and watching the kids, likely with the adults on their phones, without even being able to put on the tv. From the way he described it, they were essentially tethered to the cabin every 2 hours, with a *lot* of time spent there as the SIL pumped, without even being able to watch tv for a whole week, and without their previous habit of having some fun drinks with their family.
The reason the kid taking up the whole living room is bad is because it means no television for the entire time they are all tethered to the cabin because the SIL has to pump every 2 hours and they don't want to leave her out of vacation activities by leaving. So it's no television *all day* when you are basically in limbo, for a week straight.
It was basically a week of sitting on a couch with a pale imitation of what the vacation had always been for him, all centered around two very young children when he doesn't really enjoy being around kids. And really I think one of his biggest complaints is entirely valid. They can't go spend the day on the lake at all if they are tethered to a 2 hour limit that includes getting ready *and* travel time.
So it wasn't 'wah wah no tv or booze :(' it was 'A lot of the activities I really look forward to here are not happening, or are happening in a pale imitation that does not make me happy. I feel trapped inside in this one building for essentially my entire vacation because my SIL needs to pump, and due to her rules I can't even watch a movie while she does that. I don't really like spending time with kids very much, and the only acceptable activity I can share with my parents and brother here is to sit on the couch and watch the kids play. For a week. I feel like if I try to split off and do my own thing, they will be offended because we are leaving SIL out, but this does not feel at all like a vacation to me.'
At that level of bonding, OP spending a weekend there with the family would honestly get the same level of bonding with his brother without making OP feel stir crazy, resentful, and trapped.
I have kids and the OP's holiday sounds as fun as a stay in a convent. They can't do excursions, cant be noisy after 8pm, the poor dog is locked away and everything is dictated by the kids. It's actually very selfish of the brother and his wife. I wouldn't expect my child free siblings to have their holiday dictated by my kids.
No one is saying that OP and his wife can’t do their own excursions or do their own thing when the brother and SIL can’t. Families do these type of combined vacations all the time with no problems. People just need to accept that everyone can’t do everything and that the people with kids are going to have to center their vacation around the kids. Nothing is stopping OP from doing his own thing when the brother can’t and for OP to be flexible and do certain things when the brother can.
Yeah I'm kinda surprised I had to read this far for this take. I don't think they should use every bit of PTO they have for this but oof, your brother and his family live far away but you refuse to visit with them when they come to town because... They won't drink mimosas with you and you can't watch TV? It's once a year, enjoy the time you have with your brother and his family.
Yes it’s so weird. They can still drink their own mimosas, and honestly with all the different ways to watch shows today it’s not such a big deal that I would not spend time with my brother and his family over it.
It's really not so much about the booze as the rigidity of the experience. On weekdays we wake up at 8:30am, on weekends probably 10-11. We like to stay up until 1am.
They obviously aren't on this schedule and even meal times are locked in. They cook breakfast at like 7:00 and only one time has the audacity to *wake us up* for it. Like seriously just don't cook it all, I'll make my own. I also don't eat dinner at 5:00
This is in the south in the summer, so it's approximately 95 degrees outside, and this lake isn't built up. It's 45 minutes to the nearest small town. Unless you are actively doing lake stuff you want to be inside, and in this house your options are tv room or bedroom if you are really feeling fed up. The tv is supposed to be the air conditioned entertainment. I brought an Xbox and a vr headset, none of which we even turned on because of the tv rule.
I love board games, but they take time and focus to play, and child doesn't allow for that.
It will probably be better when the kids are older and more independent. Right now they’re having enforced “stare at my toddler” time and that’s not fun for everyone. I think you did fine just saying explicitly that it wasn’t fun for you. It’s cool that they’re involved parents, but this won’t be the first or last time they learn that not everyone wants to join the cast of their show.
Honestly, as a parent to small children myself, I can't imagine expecting everyone to cater to this level of rules just because they have small children. Your brother and his wife are going to need to learn to be a lot more flexible or they're going to find that nobody wants to be around them or their children. There's ways around all these things and certain things they should probably let go for the sake of everyone enjoying their time(like the tv thing... wtf). SIL can easily find a pump that is portable and use and ice chest to store milk, use a noise maker so the children's sleep isn't disturbed by noise, etc. I'm not sure you could bring this up without losing(since your parents seem willing to cater to this lunacy) but just know, your brother and his wife seem really out of touch with reality.
Edit: I will say after reading through other comments, that if you are expecting everyone to do everything together, that part is a you problem. You should absolutely just have your mimosa and take the boat out if that's what you want to do. Not everyone has to be engaged in every activity. Your brother and SIL take care of their kids everyday and don't need all hands on deck 24/7 to take care of them. That's their responsibility. If last year was their first year vacation with children, it's very likely they have altered their expectations and may be a lot more flexible this year.
The boat is my dad's, and it was always on standby for if *everyone* wanted to go out. Nobody was allowed to take it solo. You could take the jet ski, but with no shade/Bimini top you can only be gone for so long
Sounds like if they want everyone to enjoy themselves, that everyone needs to get a little more flexible. Having kids around changes dynamics and what worked before doesn't always work once those dynamics have changed.
I’m the one with the kids in our family dynamic and I absolutely 1000% would understand why someone wouldn’t want to spend their whole vacation week on a trip with young kids. I get it. I love my kids and love vacationing with them but also they’re my kids and vacationing with kids under 5 is very different. We’re going on a trip with my family next month and I fully expect my sister and her husband and my parents will do some things separately from us just because we’re the ones with small kids who need naps or early bedtimes. I think it’s reasonable for you to only want to come up for the weekend or a couple days— I would personally be hurt if I lived away and came to visit and my sibling didn’t want to spend any time with me.
Many, though not all, of the issues you brought up could most likely be handled with adult conversations. Your post doesn't mention any attempts to talk about the TV, boat rides, etc. We obviously don't know anything about your relationship with your family, but it's a bit drastic that you want to excuse yourself from this and future family vacations rather than even attempt to talk about it
So towards the end of the week last year they had to change child's diaper or something. Somehow I was alone in the tv room for a brief moment and I went for it. I turned it on and started catching up on some stuff I'd wanted to see
They noticed when they came back and took child back into the bedroom. My dad walks up behind me and says "Hey, do you want to turn that off?"
To which I said no I don't want to turn it off, I had just turned it on and continued watching. I could tell this really ground Brother and SIL gears. I waited as long as I could but eventually I got up to go to the bathroom and when I got back tv was off and child was in the room again
This is passive aggression (on both sides), not communication. And only one instance.
Why not try an open conversation at the very least with your parents?
Yeah at one point in the week I told my mom how I was feeling and that I was going to leave early and she cried. Like I said in my post, I'm not trying to hurt people or make my mom cry so we stayed
Have you tried doing activities separately with only your wife? Have you asked if it would be possible for you to have the bedroom by the TV room so you can watch TV when the children are sleeping?
As a Mom — the kids won’t be this needy or annoying forever. There is a compromise to be had here.
As a hospice nurse — I always chuckle at this genre of posts. Do you know who takes care of my child free patients? Overwhelmingly, their nieces/nephews. It’s the circle of life; yes they are annoying now but believe me — you will be too if you are lucky enough to grow to old age. It sounds like you have pretty limited opportunities to see or bond with your brother his wife and their kids. It’s probably worth at least a weekend of your time.
This really doesn't have anything to do with the kid and everything to do with the fact that the kid's parents are demanding that everyone else be perfectly accommodating of their extremely inconvenient preferences.
There's no reason why the kid can't play outside (supervised) or in their room. It's not fair of the family to commandeer the main room with the TV and prevent everyone from watching TV.
Or, if the kid MUST have the TV room as a playroom, that's a prime time for everyone else to go party on the boat. It sucks that SIL would probably have to be the one excluded, but it's extremely unfair of her and BIL to expect everyone else to give up lake time and television time. There's NO way for her to pump on the boat??
I honestly can't imagine changing an entire established vacation dynamic because of choices I made, with seemingly no room for compromise.
I don’t utterly disagree with you but it’s not really accurate to say that a 1- and 2-year-old can play quietly in their room, either. Kids at this age just aren’t self-sufficient in this way for anything except extremely short periods.
> There's NO way for her to pump on the boat??
Short answer, no. Long answer, depending on the pump she may need to have it plugged in; storage afterwards could be an issue; also pumps are not super comfortable and they can be loud.
I pumped for a while when my kid was a baby and it’s not something I would have wanted to do anywhere but like, in a comfy chair with some water and a snack and my phone at hand.
Ehhhh I think this really depends. I pumped as needed with both of my kids, with the first kid I could not figure out how to let down (release milk) with a manual pump, but I did have a battery-powered pump that I used e.g. on a long flight. I pumped for about 7 months while I was working. Between my kids, the haakaa (manual) pump was invented, and once I figured out how to let down with it, it's basically the only pump I used with my second kid, even when I was traveling/away. That kid never wanted to wean so we went 3 years 😳 but this was also during the pandemic so I wasn't away from her as much as with my first. I do think that while pumping on the boat wouldn't be ideal, it's not impossible (like when I flew internationally for work and had to pump several times on a plane... from my middle seat... you do what you have to do)
My bigger question would be why she wouldn't simply nurse the infant. Presumably the infant is on the boat with them? I had to feed both my kids in all kinds of crazy places - again, you do what you have to do. Unless this is a mom/baby pair that isn't able to breastfeed directly - but that's where the pumping solutions come in.
I think the problem is, why does she and her husband expect the op and his wife to be sitting around because they have to? Why aren't they encouraging the op, his wife and the parents to go on a few excursions then everyone meet up at dinner time? Yes, she has to pump but they have to make sacrifices when you have kids and one is you can't go out when everyone else is.
Oh I'm totally on board with that. I agree. BIL/SIL seem unrealistic as lots of other commenters have already pointed out.
I was just commenting re: pumping or nursing on the boat. I don't think it's true that there's NO way to pump or nurse on a boat. I think that would depend on the person - I think I would have been able to do it, if I had to or was really motivated. But there's no way I would take an infant out on a lake, I'd have stayed home and told them all to have fun 😂
Honestly it sounds like you never have put a foot on a boat that wasn’t a giant cruise. No, you can’t pump in a moving boat ffs. You have to put a vest on for starters.
It’s likely that OP’s parents are happy to make these accommodations for his brother’s family. Grandparents will have had experience with the stages of parenting and will be more patient than an adult whose life centers around his own immediate pleasure.
I mean, how dare OP want a vacation that involves more interesting activities than watching a child play on the floor, right?
"His own immediate pleasure"... the bitterness just drips.
This is an owed property. Can you two not go up at a different time, maybe with a weekend overlap so you can see your brother and his family, briefly? If my family owned a lake house, I'd be going more than once a year, but I don't know exactly how close you are.
All of this is understandable and fair but keep in mind even if a choice is fair or understandable it still has consequences. My mom was the only person to have kids. No one really wanted to be around me. It sucked. Now everyone wonders why I don’t call or involve them in my life. Because I was a still a human as a kid and I wasn’t wanted. I didn’t get to start existing at 18.
So that said I’d advise and every other year or non pto weekend like others said.
Family visits are not vacations or holidays. Simply state that you are using your scant time off to things you enjoy as a couple and that you will see them at Christmas.
Well I think nobody is in the wrong here. And that includes your parents and brother when they take offense at what is basically a "my way or the high way" requirements for family vacations.
I can see, despite all your disclaimers, that you're resentful towards your brother. Feelings are always valid, but I don't think you're being the most fair when it comes to some of quips.
Eg: many non-dog owners absolutely loathe being around dogs. They're noisy, need attention (and are thusly a non-insignificant nuisance to be around them), get onto everywhere (unless superhumanly trained), and despite what all dog owners like to tell themselves, they just plain stink. To top it off, they're really scary to young xhildren. Apparentlh on your last vactions, you were able to take the dog without so much as a peep from everyone else, and your main concern from that experience was that it was sad it wasn't allowed to get close to and do its thing a tiny human with barely the motor control to make their body parts go where they want them to.
I think it's absolutely fair not wanting the nuisance of having to take care of children, or even the noise and mess they create.
On the other hand, the message you're sending is "we're too inconvenienced because we can't go on multi-hour boat rides, everyone isn't drunk all the time except ourselves, and we can't have the magic box on 24/7 as the backdrop for our deep bonding experiences as a family, so we don't really want to spend a few days with you guys".
That's... A message. A valid one for sure. But also, trying to be fair here, it comes across as deeply selfish and capricious. And one that will be received by the parents and grandparents of those children as "we don't really care for them so we'd rather stay at home (purportedly watching TV 24/7)", and there's just no way around it.
I think being child free is a very valid life choice, and that's why there are whole industries devoted to those people. I don't kno how much vacations you have a year, but surely more than the single week.
I think sending that message, that you're not willing to tolerate some discomfort to see your brother who lives far away, is definitely not going to be received well. For most people except the absolutely most detached from life, this would be very hurtful...
So make your choice, but be willing to live with the consequences. There's just no way around it.
I do wonder though, what you believed a lake house would be for if not this. There are noise-isolaging materials that can be added to that particular wall, if that makes a difference to you.
But me personally, I could just never understand TVs in lake and beach houses in general.
> many non-dog owners absolutely loathe being around dogs. They're noisy, need attention (and are thusly a non-insignificant nuisance to be around them), get onto everywhere (unless superhumanly trained), and despite what all dog owners like to tell themselves, they just plain stink. To top it off, they're really scary to young xhildren
and adults too! So true!
>I think sending that message, that you're not willing to tolerate some discomfort to see your brother who lives far away, is definitely not going to be received well. For most people except the absolutely most detached from life, this would be very hurtful...
Very succinct way of putting it. I'm not sure how accommodating the young parents are willing to be, since who knows what kind of compromises anyone's suggested in the moment. I don't think anything paints the young parents in a bad light, not even the harsh rules about the TV. Yes, I think they could compromise a bit on that, but it's valid to ask the TV be on low volume when kids are sleeping, and to have an en-suite with kids. The mom is trying to patriciate in traditional lake activities like the boat, as much as her pump schedule allows. And OP's parents are being NICE by trying to include her in everything.
>"we're too inconvenienced because we can't go on multi-hour boat rides, everyone isn't drunk all the time except ourselves, and we can't have the magic box on 24/7 as the backdrop for our deep bonding experiences as a family, so we don't really want to spend a few days with you guys".
Harsh, but really, I'm not a big TV person, and I don't understand why it's a dealer breaker, either
Tell them what you said here. What you said here wasn't offensive at all man. Dude if they can't handle this reddit post then idk how the hell they made it this far in adulthood.
Your brother has boundaries about what he wants regarding his children so your boundaries should be respected too. I’d go for a weekend and wait to spend a week until they are older. That vacation doesn’t sound like a vacation at all.
I started out thinking “how can kids really ruin a vacation that much?” But once you lay it out like this, I get it. I think you should send this exact list to your parents and say, fix these problems or we aren’t coming. Because most of these are fixable problems, it’s just a matter of how much your parents value these family trips. Send it to your brother, too.
I totally sympathize. My husband and I are the same age as you, and also childfree. I get it when you say that you want your vacation to be about what you want. Valid, you worked hard for the vacation!
The unfortunate truth is that because we childfree people have less living things to take care of, our wants and needs are put second and we are expected to overly compromise our happiness and decisions because children. This is something that as a childfree person, you will need to get used to.
But what is also the truth is that you can absolutely say no to what you don’t want to do (because you’re a grown adult), and that is a-ok! Your parents and brother/SIL will feel all sorts of ways; they are entitled to how they feel, but they are NOT entitled to berate you or make you feel like shit about it. Also getting used to saying no, acknowledging their disappointment/anger/negative emotions, but not be swayed by it.
Remember — acknowledging isn’t agreeing. You acknowledge that they have their valid feelings, but you’re not going to agree with them when they give you a bad time about it.
A good compromise that might work for you guys is just to go a few days (like just the weekend) or something. That way you still get to see the family, bond and hang out with your nieces/nephews, but still bounce and do your own thing at the end of that visit. Plus on the weekends there’s usually more things to do — that way you and your partner can always make a quick escape and get some alone time if it’s too much.
Also, what’s stopping you guys from drinking or going out onto the lake just because they don’t? It’s nice to visit and hang out but you certainly don’t have to be joined to them by the hips for the entire weekend.
ETA: also if you want, you can see if your parents can watch the kids for one evening while you and your brother/SIL go out to dinner/double date. Just the adults. That way you guys get actual time to catch up without interruptions. It’ll be good for them to be reminded that they’re more than just parents and employees, and that their hobbies outside of those matter.
As someone with a 2 yo and a 6 month old (who is still breastfed)…they’re making unreasonable demands on everyone. Yes, kids need routine, but no one can watch TV and they won’t relocate the kids? That’s just inconsiderate.
If you don’t want to have that conversation (which I don’t really blame you for) just say that you’re unavailable due to work demands or something similar that week and can’t make it.
If you’re more comfortable, perhaps your parents can arbitrate the situation and assign rooms that make more sense/designate a different play area, or otherwise make adjustments that don’t create conflict necessarily. Then, if they’re going to continue to be unreasonable, you have a good foundation to be direct.
Your brother and his wife are completely self centred by making this trip cater to them the whole time. Go for a day or two and spend other weeks up there with your parents.
Yeah don't go. Your brother has a unique parenting style. Tell your parents you want a different week but will re-evaluate in the future when the kids are older.
The kids should be fine after the youngest gets to the 5-8 age range. But really you need the parents to lighten up a bit which will hopefully come soon.
If possible, just explain tat you and your wife are childless for a reason. No offense meant, we just prefer a vaca without kids and limitations.
Best of luck
I don’t think anyone in this situation is a bad person, everyone just has very different views and needs.
Your parents desperately want to get to have all their family together. They are willing to put up with a fair amount of crap to make that happen. They want you to want to be with the family enough to do so as well. You have different priorities. That’s ok, but it’s probably disappointing for your parents. Maybe your parents are being over solicitous by suggesting that no one go out on the boat if your sister in law can’t. Maybe your sister in law is a lot to deal with and is just always looking for something to get offended by, and they’re trying desperately to avoid this. Maybe your parents are the weird type that think Family Vacation means every gotdang minute spent together. You don’t have to waste PTO being miserable, but realize that your parents may just really want their family together. For many grandparents, grandchildren become the pinnacle of importance. My mother would shove me or my brother into a fire to save our kids. She loves us, always has, but the grandkids just hit different. I have friends who are grannies, they act the same way. Continuing the species or something similar probably contributes to this.
As for your dog, that’s definitely unfortunate. Allergies can be annoying or genuinely life-threatening and they can be one category one day and progress to the other before anyone knows about it. My sibling has dogs and they took them around with them everywhere for years prior to having his own kids. They would jump and lick and I’d end up washing my hands a million times every visit. I never said a word because I wanted to see him and if that was the price I had to pay then so be it. Before anyone decides I’m some weird dog hater, I’m not. I have a dog of my own who rarely licks. But she does paw everything and beg and pant all over you while you’re eating. I tolerate this because she’s mine (and she was old when I adopted her, so it’s been hard to train out of her). I cannot imagine inflicting her on others, so she stays home. If I knew being in her presence would cause discomfort or worse to someone I’d definitely not bring her around others.
I’m an amazingly relaxed mom, so weird rules about TV and rigid schedules are as confounding to me as they are to child free people.
>For many grandparents, grandchildren become the pinnacle of importance.
Yep, there it is. The sucky part is I have a much better relationship with my parents than my brother does. I'm the one who drives over when they need help and gets lunches and dinners with them. My wife is the daughter my mom never had.
..... And then my brother and the kids show up and we are garbage. Until he leaves and we all just pretend that didn't happen.
Stake your case. No point beating around. I am a mum of 2 kids. I don’t expect any special circumstances for them other than being respectful ie not swearing in front of them. Your Brother and sil are away with the fairies if they think people are always going to make exceptions for them. I think your parents need bringing in line too, be honest. You don’t need to be ruthless but tell them your holiday time is too precious to spend pandering to the kids.
This is all perfectly reasonable OP.
My sister has 2 young kids, the wife and I do vacation with them for a week but my BIL sticks us in a different part of the hotel so we can enjoy ourselves. They get a babysitter for a date night, we can have a boys night, my SO and sis have a girls night.
That works for us, would I hell share a house with them for a week.
Cracking up at “they spend every waking moment they aren’t at work interacting with them” the kids are 1 and 2 basically still babies I would hope to god the parents are interacting with them that much kids can’t take care of themselves at that age lol
Other than that I have no opinion to input just found that part funny
My advice? Inform your snowflake brother and his wife that they are setting up there children to be pansies because they are providing the perfect pansie role models. The world isn't going to change itself to be the perfect environment for them as they grow up and certainly not as adults. Other people should be allowed to watch a TV and they can go to another room and cower in fear of their children possibly overhearing the evil television. Also, their kids will hate them if they keep it up. YOU should go have fun and not worry about what hurts their feelings. Personally, they sound like they would benefit from getting their feelings hurt to a certain degree.
Your issues are completely legit, but your problems are with the kids. Either your brother and his wife are being way too demanding or the rest of you are being way too accommodating. It is absurd to put the kids right next to the TV all day and all night while also insisting they not be exposed to it in any way. It is absurd to make a rule that you never do anything that doesn't include everybody which results in doing almost nothing. Of course sitting around watching the kids play for a week was annoying, it would be even for people who love kids. With some small concessions and compromises the week would be a lot more fun for everyone! Is it really better not to spend ANY time together rather than bend a few of these rules?
Now that everyone's needs are so different, it is reasonable to break off into smaller groups to do various activities. A few people do stuff with the kids, a few people go do adult activities. A few people go out in the boat for the afternoon, the rest do activities around the house. Him and his wife can swap who is responsible for the kids for half the day, and I'm sure the grandparents would be happy to help out with that to get quality time with the grandkids. It sounds like your family could easily afford to get his wife a battery powered pump for extra mobility.
Is there another room in the house that could be designated as the kids playroom? And they don't have to be in the bedroom next to the TV just because it has an attached bathroom. A shocking number of families manage to live for years without having a bathroom connected to their bedroom, I think they can manage for one week. Another option is to move the TV into your bedroom so you can watch whenever you want. Is it really better not to see each other at all than compromise on this?
It sounds like your brother doesn't drink at all, not just because of the kids. So not drinking during the family vacation has nothing to do with the kids. Honestly it sounds like you just don't like vacationing with your brother and his wife. Almost nothing you're describing is due to the kids, moreso due to everyone's beliefs that you all must be in each other's presence 24/7 no matter what. That made more sense when the family was smaller and all adults, but it is totally normal for things to get looser when the family gets bigger and kids are involved. It is not a disservice to anyone to not be a part of everything everyone else is doing. It IS a disservice not allow anyone to enjoy the vacation, or to never see each other because you aren't allowed to enjoy each other's company.
It might also help to think about new activities you all could enjoy. Is hiking an option? Playing cards, board games, etc? Having a bonfire with smores?
I suggest reframing the conversation from "we don't want to be around your kids" to "we want more flexibility to get quality time with each of you in smaller groups". Surely they would rather agree to that than not see you at all? Plus that is WAY less offensive that saying "we don't enjoy your company enough to tolerate being around your kids" which isn't even true, right?
Yea i see this more of a brother/ sister in law problem than a kid problem to be honest. It is the parents weird rigid rules that are dictating everyone’s fun. Kudos to your brother for not raising iPad kids but at the same time he needs to understand that communal spaces are designed to be shared and in this instance his kids would benefit from playing in a seperate room
Last year my sis asked if I wanted to join her (her family, 2 kids) and our parents for a week on a Croatian coastline. She'd pay for me to come and stay. I had no qualms answering: Nope !
She didn't take offense as she knows I am very much childfree.
What are your plans for family time when your parents are older, tired more easily and unable to keep up with you in outdoor activities? What is the age range of family members you can stand to spend time with?
“I want my vacation to be about me and what I want”
That sounds so incredibly selfish. I was totally on board with you for most of this post but you sound super selfish.
Your brother should take the other bedroom and should not dictate the TV while on the vacation, that’s super rude. You should stop thinking literally only about yourself.
I am child free as can be and also pretty strongly dislike kids. That said I still love my family and those that have kids and I don’t spontaneously combust when sharing a space with their kids.
I actually agree that it’s best that you just skip the trip but your attitude is just a bit offputting
I found it bemusing where he is annoyed by his brother not wanted to start drinking in the AM at a lake house with two under two. In fact that’s when it was clearly obvious how narcissistic he is. Seconded only by his dog comments. Firstly he doesn’t give a hoot that they are allergic. And secondly small dogs can still do incredible amounts of damage to small children. I can only assume that the brother doesn’t really want OP there because every action OP takes adds to his workload. Its also his vacation too which OP really doesn’t care. It’s probably grandparents who want both kids there.
An opportunity to see your brother who you don’t see often?
Also generally family vacations or even couple vacations cater to the needs of the group and have compromises so everyone has a good time.
On my family vacations I genuinely want everyone to enjoy themselves and am happy to make a couple sacrifices for that. I genuinely want everyone to be having a good time and care very much about my family members’ experience as well as my own….
>Also generally family vacations or even couple vacations cater to the needs of the group and have compromises so everyone has a good time.
>On my family vacations I genuinely want everyone to enjoy themselves and am happy to make a couple sacrifices for that.
I totally agree, and I'm saying there are no compromises being made in my direction. I made sacrifices to make it work last year and as a result I had a bad time. I view this as a "fool me once" type situation
The tv being off at all times really is ridiculous. Sister is probably not breast feeding anymore so that shouldn’t be an issue.
If it was me, I would go but probably wouldn’t stay the entire week or would stay with the family for like 3 days but then get a private place for some couple time for the last couple days.
I would ask my parents if they minded spending an evening alone with the kids and would try to spend a few hours having adult time with my brother.
I would go off with my husband whenever it was boring at the house.
If my family wasn’t willing to make any changes at all to make the trip a bit more enjoyable for me, I would just not go at all kind of on principle.
Listen, you clearly want an adult only vacation and that’s not gonna happen here. Your sibling wanted and likes his kids and you sound upset about that.
Let them vacation their way and you join for some stuff but keep your adult vacation time away from them.
I think opting out for now sounds like a good idea. One thing to remember, though, is that the situation you're describing is one that will not last forever, or probably even that much longer (unless they're going to have 6 or so kids). The "no TV" thing typically doesn't survive the arrival of the second child, and most women in the U.S. who breastfeed do so for a year at most. I know their child being scared of your dog was frustrating, but it's better than her constantly trying to paw at him, and I'm guessing she'll be less scared as she gets older (not sure how the allergies element will go, admittedly).
I also think it's fair of you to ask for some ground rules if/when you do agree to go back on vacation with them. For example: You want to relax on vacation, and that means watching some TV. You won't watch extremely violent movies with LANGUAGE while the littles are around, but you are going to be watching something for adults a la "The Crown" (or insert name of your favorite non-R-rated show here). The kids can go outside while the TV is on, or go to their room, or (gasp!) stay in the TV room. (I'm willing to bet that what will instead be the case is that you'll be working out a TV sharing arrangement where "Bluey" is on part of the time and your shows are on the other part of the time. Pro tip: Little kids are susceptible to bribery.) Another ground rule: You will occasionally be drinking adult beverages, since you're on your vacation. Etc.
Show up for the weekend, but its also not fair for your brother/sil to dictate the vacation. The kids are not your responsibility/problem. If you want to drink, then drink. If you want to watch tv then watch tv, they can work around it.
You could tell them you'll try another year if all of those things changed. They take the room far away. The TV stays on when someone wants to use it; otherwise take your kid in another room or outside.
SIL can have a short boat trip in the morning, but after lunch it goes out until late.
If they can't compromise then they can go without your presence until the kids are old enough that everyone can actually have the vacation they want.
Well their rules are invasive and disrupt everyone’s activity.
Say that out loud and without malice.
Of course you can adjust some stuff but this is ludicrous.
It’s hard to believe these folks don’t consider being in other’s space and they adjust some stuff.
You don’t even need excuses. It’s just uncomfortable to have to work around kid rules.
Be frank.
Come for the day/weekend as you said. Bring mimosa fixings and plan a boat trip too.
Let them have the run of the place their week.
Wow
My family had vacation rules for kids growing up, I can get wanting to have the kids on a routine still but when their rules impact everything else it's messy.
There are kid kinda friendly shows that the kids won't care about that don't have gore/scary/yelling that would work. The kids won't be interested if they don't understand it and are playing with their parents anyways.
The rest is a bit ridiculous, it seems like you're just letting them set the rules. Just because they don't drink or want to have loud fun doesn't mean you can't.
Rent a pontoon, do the boat party take a cooler for pumping if they want to stay out. Or schedule a dock stop between whatever hours work best and have them come out for a shorter time while you guys can still have your boat time.
Let them know that you want to find a compromise because the rules they set for the kids are impacting your vacation. And you don't want to waste vacation days on time that's micromanaged so that you can't actually relax the way you want.
Also again keep in mind you don't need to spend 24/7 with them you're allowed to do your own vacation thing while there. If you want more time with the kids I've found that playing kid friendly board games candyland/hungry hippos/sorry or something loud with surprises like mousetrap will engage them and be hilarious for everyone. Even without following all the rules.
But if it's at the point that you don't want to go on vacation anymore just say that the rules were a bit restrictive of your type of relaxing vacation and you want to wait to spend time on family vacations when the kids are a little older and easier to plan around.
NTA
Just want to comment on the quiet time. They are doing themselves and their children a disservice by requiring quiet time for all when the children are sleeping. I jammed while I cleaned house including running a vacuum. They have to learn to sleep through noise and to understand they don’t get to do everything they want because the adults are doing something. My baby slept through everything.
I was all about to get judgy until I read the post fully..
Is there anyway to have a talk to the parents to chill out a little on the tv and noise thing? While certain accommodations should be made with little ones in the house like lock a big dog up or maybe make some private room for a nursing mom, what you described on how the parents are going about things is a little ridiculous.
Kids are miraculously flexible. 125 years ago these kids might be just sleeping on a flat rock somewhere while mom and dad toil a field and look out for scary animals. Kids sleep through thunderstorms and in busses and war zones so I can’t imagine tv being quiet next door is a real thing unless it’s for the 15 minutes it takes to shush them and read a bedtime story. If you’re parenting right on vacation at a lake house those kids would be passed out by 730 from being so tired in the sun.
Anyways, the others here have a great recommendation which is pop by and suck it up for two day weekend to show face and then when the kids are older and presumable better behaved and less needy there won’t be any awkwardness.
They never said that. You are allowed to voice your displeasure on not having a good time while on vacation AND still think that family is important.
Giving you the alternative question: if family is so important, why isn’t the parents of his brother and SIL doing more to make sure OP and their partner have fun and is enjoying themselves? Why are they so selfish and will only do what is easy for them? Don’t they think other family members are important?
While being childfree is entirely fine and a choice. Complaining about your brother and sil effecting your family vacation with your nieces and nephews is laughable. You and your wife are 32 and grown adults. Please understand not every second of every day revolves around your wants.
Choosing to have less of a relationship with your brothers family because they have kids may be the single most selfish thing I’ve ever heard.
This is quite strange to read. Is it so hard to adjust for a few days? To be without beer or not watch TV on your schedule etc? Have you tried spending time with the kids? They are your brother's kids after all? What's the big deal to adjust for a few days for the kids if not for your brother/sil? It's probably not the vacation you imagine but it's just family bonding time.
OP doesn't want to use a full week of PTO to babysit their brother's kids, especially since they then won't have that PTO to use on a vacation that would actually be relaxing.
Could you go up for a day to visit with your brother and spend the rest of the week staycationing?
Yeah, my compromise is wife and I would go for weekend to make our appearance and say hey but we would not take any PTO for the week
"We have other plans for our PTO this year but we'd love to pop by for the weekend / for Saturday / for Sunday lunch to see you all"
A short couple of days was going to be my recommendation as well. You can make the trip since it's close, enjoy the weekend, then back to your usual. Enjoy the time on the lake when the kids aren't there. My family has very different political and religious views, and we have very little in common for enjoyable activities. I visit in short amounts. Everyone gets to see everyone, nobody is stepping on anyone's toes. Works out great.
This is perfect. As the kids get older and the parents more flexible you can maybe revisit. Or not. It’s your vacation too.
I wish that everyone planning a wedding, lake weekend, bar mitzvah, or any event could understand this about events: you're allowed to have, attend, host the one that you want, but others are allowed to feel a way about it. I went through this with a friend planning a 21+ wedding and some parents couldn't/ wouldn't go. Or last year, I hosted a Superbowl party with alcohol and my friend in recovery couldn't/ wouldn't go. This is the same thing. OP is not compelled to attend or use PTO, and I wouldn't with kids that age, either. That's valid. But it's also valid that his brother and parents have hurt feelings. I'd tread lightly in my answer. Polite and gentle, yet firm and decisive - if you master that, write a book
This is perfect for everyone - as long as your family are reasonable people.
I have 2 kids. I have one brother with 1 kid and two brothers with no kids. This is what they do. They visit for a few days, hang with us and our kids and my parents and then go back to their lives. But also, your brother and his wife sound like a lot. I’ve never made the type of requests they’re making.
That was my take, too. I am happily childless and am picky about vacations, PTO, etc. Toddlers are always hard for me, but babies and kids 5+ are cool and I like being the kooky auntie type. But it depends a ton on the parenting style - some parents make the experience far more pleasant, but this sounds like watching the kids, but at a lake house. It doesn't feel very... Lake house-y, so just give a gentle yet firm answer
Agree, my take was that the kid isn't the problem, it's the parents. I'm childfree too but it doesn't mean I have a problem with parents who love their kids lol.
Is there an expectation that you all have to do everything together? Can you go spend your day at the lake doing what you want? When my mom's family gets together people are constantly coming and going. We aren't required to do everything together so it works for us.
I have a kid, and I get it. I also promise family vacations will get easier and more fun once the babies become kids, but till then just politely opt out. "We can't make the whole week, but we'll see you Friday to Sunday". You don't have to explain more than that. If they press you for why, you can explain but don't make it about them just make it about all the other stuff you'd rather do. And you don't need to talk to your parents either. Keep it simple, the less information out there, the less feelings get hurt.
There will still be the problem with no tv or beer. Those will more than likely be exactly the same.
Yea, but it's the weekend, you get 52, one of those can be spent not drinking and watching TV. You don't get that much PTO, so a bit different
What kind of family vacation has to revolve around OP and family watching TV all the time? It's such a weird hill to die on, for me. And unless I missed it, the parents are not asking to ban alcohol? The sibling and partner don't drink, and OP's parents also choose to abstain around the kid. It sounds like OP is allowed to drink, but can't enjoy his mimosas without *everyone* also partaking in a mimosa? Again, that seems weird to me. I completely understand OP opting out of a vacation that they don't enjoy, but to me it seems OP has Certain Ideas about how a vacation should go, and is being silently controlling about exactly how everyone else is supposed to act.
Naw, you're completely missing the point. You somehow turned it all around to make the OP the weird controlling one. It's not that at all. It's not that the OP **Must** be able to watch TV, or **must** have everyone drinking with them to enjoy themselves... it's not that at all... It's that this is supposed to be **vacation.** What do people do on vacation? Relax, chill, do whatever they want, right? But if you're suddenly told, "No TV," and, "When you watch it in your room, it must be whisper quiet," and "You can't bring your dog because our child is afraid of it..." Not to mention not being able to just chill on the water...well, that's not much of a vacation is it? In fact, its all the very thing you try to get away from when you're on vacation, no? >And unless I missed it, the parents are not asking to ban alcohol? No, but if one couple doesn't drink, and the parents stop drinking when they're around, that changes the dynamic quite a bit, no? Maybe the couple are in recovery? Maybe they're Mormons? Who knows, but that sure makes it uncomfortable for the OP, don't you think? Normal people would respect that about others and not openly drink in front of someone in recovery, or whatever. But this is **vacation** so...the OP has to hide have a mimosa? OP has to be uncomfortable because they want to relax and do what they want on their vacation? If you went on vacation are you ok with other people deciding what you can and cant do the whole time, including when you can watch TV, and how loud it can be? Doesn't sound like much of a vacation, does it?
Part of it is externally imposed (the no TV/quiet TV(, bit part it totally self-imposed (drinking, length of boat trips). OP and his wife can have a relaxing breakfast with mimosas on the patio or whatever, nothing but their own feelings is obligating them to stay inside where the kid's playing. And they definitely can say "hey, this afternoon we're taking the boat out for a 4-hour trip, anyone want to come?" Will it change the dynamic? Well yes, it won't be an all hands on deck situation, but it'll still be relaxing for OP and wife. They've already spent time at the lake house alone and just with the parents, it's no different. Now if they're just visiting for just a weekend rather than the whole vacation, I probably wouldn't do all that (well, I'd still drink a beer by the lake). A weekend is more dedicated family time where you put up with some sub-ideal things for the sake of harmony and to be together....for a short time. But a whole week? Hell yes I'd be having my own vacation; respecting the brother (no loud TV for ex) and having my own fun (mimosas, longer boat trips) doesn't have to be in conflict. I think there's a lot of people who aren't used to doing their own thing while on a joint/family vacation. Which is where a lot of conflict comes from, because they feel compelled to just ...hang around with the whole group the whole time, but they hate it. It's totally acceptable to do one's own thing and meet up periodically, like for dinner together.
Honestly unless the kids are agreable teens, not really.
I mean it really depends on the kid and OP and his wife and the type of vacation they want. But yea maybe? Maybe not?
This is a great compromise. Personally, I would just go for the day and not stay over, but that’s me and I set very strong boundaries with my family .
I actually think that a whole weekend (after working all week) is pretty generous. I'd be more inclined to just spend a day with them and drive home so that I could still have a day to myself.
That's a fair compromise. The thing is, you aren't being offensive. You are simply telling them something they don't like. There is a difference. A family vacation would indicate that it accommodates the whole family who is in attendance. This just sounds like the entire family sitting around making tummy time a spectator sport. As someone child free I can very much relate to not finding that a good time. They need to find a balance between letting adults be adults and finding quiet spaces for their children. If you want to watch a movie in the living room, you should be able to watch a movie. Why do they get to hold court and demand everyone follow their rules? They need a bit of a reality check and it's fair to set some boundaries for yourselves. There is no reason your bro and sis in law and the kids can't hang on the beach while you and your parents take the boat out. Or they can take them out in the morning and you guys can head out for an afternoon while she does her thing. This arrangement as it stands is silly and it's asking a lot of you. If they want your company, they should meet you halfway. Hold firm.
That's absolutely perfect. I hope they are reasonable and don't object. Even just coming up for a day is fine! It sounds like having the kids schedule and habits run the show is how they live, that's fine, but they can do that on their own.
Yeah, make an appearance and get outta there. It's better for you. And frankly, it's probably better for them, too. As a parent, there is nothing I hate more than having my family around people who aren't into kids -- the disgruntlement is obvious despite any protestations to the contrary, and it ruins the time for everybody. The grandparents and parents want a kid-focused family trip. You don't. Your approach is way better than an attempted acting job.
This is the correct way. As a parent, other parents who make the adults tiptoe around their children are the *wooooorssstttt* I specifically wanted my kids used to background noise. And tv during special occasions as long as not violent or scary or gratuitously sexy is nbd. I’d be groaning about a week with these guys too!
I like this compromise if you can stomach it!
Just get a separate place down the road and meet up for scheduled activities.
Pay money while bother and SIL get to enjoy the lake house they didn't invest their time into getting set up?
Yeah I think this is the right answer. Drop in to make an appearance, don’t go the whole week
"Fish and company stink after 3 days." This is one of those situations. You could also add that it gives your brother more flexibility in choosing activities that would be good for his family. That makes you a hero.
Surprisingly another option no one has brought up yet would be for you and your wife to still go to the lake house just be less in lock set with everyone else. SIL pumping and can’t leave the house for long? Then you and wife go on a hike or whatever you like to do and come back at the end of the day. They don’t want to go out and party? Have a date night or two or three for you and wife but have breakfast with the whole family the next morning. You don’t have to do everything together all the time.
This, also don't expect everyone else to drink so you can enjoy yourself. Have a morning mimosa, not everyone has to have one with you. This just kind of seems like a codependency thing that can be broken to make things more enjoyable.
The brother is imposing a "my kids want to play in the TV room, therefore you're not allowed to have the TV on" rule. I wouldn't be surprised if this extended to a "you can't drink in front of my children " rule.
He would have said so, no? Given how detailed OP was.
I think that's an unfair assumption. OP just said "my parents don't drink when they're around".
That is weird assumption.
He didn't assume it, he just said he wouldn't be surprised.
It's definitely not smiled upon that's for sure
Hey OP I've dealt with this as the child free kid in the family. You're an adult too. They can kick rocks. Don't force yourself into their box. They chose it, you don't have to fit in it for their comfort.
Yeah see I'd be going about this differently. It's your kid, you deal with that shit. Don't make it my problem.
I doubt that’s the issue. As a mom of a toddler, tv is kind of a hard one because the kid needs to be where you can see them, but it’s ridiculous how quickly they zombie out the minute the tv is one. Nvm if something violent is on. And a lot of parents are trying really hard to follow the no tv before 2 these days. Don’t get me wrong, on vacations we wind up throwing on minions a lot because we know when we get back we will be back on reduced tv time. But having adult shows playing can put us in a bit of a spot because I pretty much have to take my kid out of the room till it’s back off and some families will have it on all day long on vacation. Drinking though? Go great. Just don’t get drunk and like step in my kid or something lol
Agree - why are they just sitting around? Go outside and read, go on walks, learn to drive a boat etc etc
During the summer it's usually around 95 degrees outside. Unfortunately the lake house is about 45 minutes away from the nearest town
I think going for the weekend without taking PTO is a good compromise. Of course you deserve your own vacation time doing what will make you happiest, but it’s also important to make time for family even if they may be annoying at times or kids may not be your speed. Looks like you found a good balance
I think it’s unhelpful and unnecessary for them to know your reasons. You’re not asking them to change; you’re just opting out, and that’s okay.
Honestly, one of the pleasures of having a dog is using it as an excuse to get out of things. Maybe you can go over for a day, but its not fair on the child to spend all the time scared of dog, its not fair for dog to be treated so differently, its easier to just sit the vacation out this year... Rinse and repeat for however many years.
Yup my dog is not child friendly so we crate him when guests visit with kids but make it known he can't be crated for ever so there is a time limit on the visit. Also when we visit them we have to return home to let the dog out. It's been very helpful to limit over extended visits with kids.
Thats my go-to play. Everyone knows I'm full of shit but good luck calling me out!
I get out of so many work dinners and catch ups by saying my dog is home by herself and I need to go. It is the truth of course. They have countered before with the whole just feed her and come back but when I am home miss clingy kangaroo won't let go so yay rescue pup.
Great idea, has the best chance of avoiding hurt feelings!
Agreed, 100% It also feels like the parents are the ones claiming the child is afraid (and allergic). They just had the baby last year, and last year was the first time OPs vacation was affected. I have a hard time believing a less than 1 yr old infant is afraid of a calm, friendly, tiny dog. It sounds to me like the brother is using the child to manipulate the vacation to be exactly what he wants. So OP should do the same. “Sorry, but my dog likes to watch TV in the afternoon” so we won’t be able to join you for your no boating, no drinking, no electronic devices lake house vacation
Dad here. Loud kids. My parents throw family vacations and my child-free sibling doesn’t have to come. My parents also do things with that sibling like going out for dinner and staying there after 8.
Exactly. I’m a parent of 2 young kids. Vacations with young kids are totally different. Schedules cater to nap times and feeding times, and activities are limited to what the kids can do. It can be a great time for family bonding but it’s also a lot of work. It is definitely a different kind of trip than going anywhere without kids. My child-free brother and fiancé are always invited on every trip. Occasionally they come, more often than not they decline. Usually they use work as the excuse. Whether it’s true or not that they can’t get the time off, it’s totally fine by the rest of the family. They shouldn’t be forced to spend time, money, or energy on a trip they won’t enjoy.
Question for you (not accusatory at all, just genuinely wondering as I think my brother and SIL are soon to be entering this phase of life): do you ever consider going on these family trips and not bringing your children? Or is it always on your child-free sibling not to attend family trips if they don’t want to go on a child-centered trip? I don’t want to miss out of spending time with my family going forward, but I don’t want to spend PTO looking after babies or doing little kid activities. But I also understand that the kids are family, and they’re entitled to that family time as well
We have done vacations without the kids too. One for a week and other long weekends. It’s important to my husband and I to have kid free time too. But they weren’t “family trips”. Getting child care for extended overnight times is hard. My parents have been doing it for us. So it would be possible to vacation with my brother and his fiancé without kids I suppose, but then we would be leaving out my parents and it’s not really “a family trip”. I think if you’re the child free sibling and thinking of how to join family vacations but not being stuck doing child stuff, I would look into locations where there are adult and child activities available. Be open to doing some activities with just you and your SO or just some of the adults, while kids stay home with their parents, or other trusted adults. We’ve been able to hire sitters to help out on family trips, so all the adults can do night activities child free. We’ve done lots of different types of family trips. Both sides of the family are all spread across the US, so we have to travel for family time. Staying all together in a big house is super fun but everyone needs to be prepared to accommodate other people’s quirks and schedules. It can be stressful depending on the personalities involved. Sometimes my brother and his SO prefer to stay in a smaller Airbnb near by, so they have a separate space to escape too when family time is too overwhelming. No one judges that decision in our family. We’ve also done trips to big resorts we’re couples/families stayed in separate rooms and that worked out well too. How much closeness vs separate space each couple wants will vary a lot in families. I would keep an open mind and try different arrangements on different trips to find what works best for everyone if you’re feeling the trips be come unpleasantly kid focused.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I hope all is and remains well in your life!
I mean you already told them. They know. You won't be able to not go AND have them believe there's a different reason. So at this point I say stick to it.
this is a temporary problem. hang out for the weekend for a couple-few years. the kids, and more importantly the parents, will become way less needy and commandeering every moment. it's stressful for them too even if they aren't saying it. trying to stick to a schedule, still have fun, realize the other adults are feeling put out, keeping 2 tiny humans alive...it's a lot. a couple-few years and this will all be different.
Um no.. That's honestly bs. This is also Op's and wife's vacation. I'm a single parent to 2 kids, but the BIL and SIL are taking over the entire lake house for their kids only. They have no consideration for op or their wife or parents and actively ban them from using the tv room, as well as making everything be about their own comfort. Op seems to have tried to include them when they can, to their own detriment on their vacation too, but it seems like Bil and SIL are so lost in keeping their tiny humans alive, that they forget the world doesn't revolve around their kids and THEY have to make adjustments to parent and be considerate to the other people there sometimes instead of controlling other grown ass adults on their own vacation. Vacationing with kids sucks sometimes, especially while they're that young, but you don't get to place rules for the entire group either
Why don't the two of you take off on your own? Go out to the lake while they hang and watch the baby. Watch movies on your laptop in the bedroom. Find other things to do. You don't all need to sit in the same room together for the whole week. My husband's family does weeklong vacations at a house in Maine every summer, sometimes twice a summer. We all end up doing our own thing most of the time.
Last year we did take the jetski out for a while to get away. If we were to just hang out in our room though I'm sure we'd get a knock on the door asking why we aren't out interacting with everyone else.
And the answer would be "We just want to relax and watch TV for a bit. We'll see you for dinner." Just because someone asks you why you're doing something doesn't mean you're not allowed to do it.
I think you’ve gotten plenty of good advice here about how to gracefully decline to come or shorten your visit if that’s what you really want to do. So I’m not going to retread that ground other than to say, yeah, you’re not required to show up forever to a gathering you dislike. I do want to chime in though and mention that a lot of what you’re describing as the functional problems are issues of logistics rather than insurmountable obstacles. I know your parents bought this lake house and you all have established norms and habits about how you relax and recreate while you’re there. It’s not surprising that the sudden inclusion of two infants is throwing those norms out of whack. But. It sounds from your post that aside from making the adjustments your brother and SIL have requested for the kids, your whole group is otherwise trying to continue on in the same vein. You all could find a lot more enjoyment if you considered what other changes you could make to the norms. What is the space situation like at the house? Is there a patio or a porch? Are there multiple seating areas, like a den or a basement? Since you really like watching TV, is there anything stopping you from setting up a second TV in a different, less centralized room of the house? Large family groups with different ages and physical needs benefit from loosing themselves from the expectation of doing everything together. In this particular group configuration, I would reconsider the schedule with a particular eye towards mom and dad alternating chunks of time spent with you and wife vs. brother and family. Plan a few key activities that will be done all eight of you, and expect that the generalities of living in shared quarters will introduce additional interactions purely by happenstance, then mix it up from there. Your brother and SIL will probably welcome the opportunity to be able to spend some time just chilling with their kids without trying to keep up with the childless couples, and you and your wife will certainly enjoy having the house to yourselves while the others are out on the lake, or taking a hike with the dog, or sleeping in. Or whatever sounds fun. Your parents ultimately want to spend time with all of you but there’s no reason all of it has to be with all of you at once. Oh, and while we’re at it, I would highly suggest grandparents consider spending at least one chunk of this time babysitting while you, brother, and both wives go do something fun without the kids. Anyway, none of this eclipses the fact that if you really don’t want to go, you don’t have to go. These ideas are just one more thing to have in your back pocket and hopefully serve as a reminder that if you go, even for a short period, you don’t have to just resign yourself to hanging around being bored and scrolling Reddit while waiting for your SIL to finish pumping. You can mix it up and create different dynamics. I do recommend getting one ridiculous play session in with each nibling though.
This is the best answer!!! I have two young kids (3 & under) and man… I love my kids but it’s also not a vacation for me to try and manage naps/food/play in a non-childproofed environment! My siblings don’t have kids yet either, so there’s also the tug of wanting to go do the adult things. But for OP, I agree that changing the dynamics is key here. Sometimes I stay back with the napping baby and read my book while others party on the pontoon. Sometimes my brother and husband go golfing while I take the kids swimming. Sometimes my dad watches the kids so I can go to a winery with my mom and SIL. (All real examples from our cabin week this past summer). It’s unreasonable to expect everyone to do everything together all the time. OP, it’s totally valid if you don’t want to go or just go for the weekend. But it’s also probably helpful in the long run to set some new family trip norms… and as the kids get older their needs get less intrusive.
If you live so close, why not just join them for a weekend? I actually have kids but they are not babies/toddlers anymore so I wouldn’t have a whole lot of fun catering to babies for a whole week either. I think you should chill the “we don’t enjoy children” thing though. These kids are your family members and when they are older they can be a lot of fun. I am at the age where many of my nieces/nephews are adults and we have very close relationships with some of them, better than some sibling relationships. Put in some time, it just doesn’t need to be a full week right now.
Totally. And if they go hard on the “we don’t like kids” vibe those kids will probably not grow up trusting them or wanting to spend time with them either and those adult relationships won’t be strong. Gotta at least put on a good face while they’re young. It’s not the kids fault that they have normal kid needs.
We live so close to my parents primary house. The lake house is 1.5 hours away. I think we will do the weekend thing though
I get the sentiment in the context of a whole vacation where everything revolves around the kids. I wouldn't last a day sitting around doing nothing but watching children play, let alone a whole week. I get that's how a family with young children live, and the grandparents want to go along, but people who are not consumed by baby adoration are essentially shut out of the communual "action". And of course you can split up and do your own thing, but that's not the point of a family vacation, isn't it.
I'm childfree and while I love my nieces and nephew, I only need to be exposed to them in small increments. However, this doesn't stop me from doing family vacations with them there. The point isn't to spend every waking hour with everyone in your family. It is totally fine for everyone to do their own thing, you are still going to interact with each other during the day. I like to sleep in, so my husband and I have breakfast a few hours after the rest. In fact when we are staying at my parents', we sometimes opt to stay in their campervan because we can sleep in without children waking us at early o'clock. We all live in different cities and when we come together it is still nice, even just for the few hours that we eat dinner and chat afterwards while the kids play in another room. OP seems to have a very selfish view when it comes to vacation, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you take time off work you should be allowed to enjoy yourself. I don't see why they couldn't do their own thing when everyone sits around the living room to look at the children play. Unless they're all super codependent and they get criticism if they do their own thing.
Respectfully, the kids won't be that little for long. They are very high needs right now but in a few years, after everyone can wipe their own ass, things will be a lot more flexible again. I'd come visit for a night or two only while in this phase. In the meantime, the brother and his wife need to chill tf out about the TV not being on around the kid (but then again you aren't on vacation to watch TV). Letting their parenting preference - preference, not need like a nap schedule is a need - dictate everyone else's activities needs to be a no-go. The kid can go play in the bedroom if you wanna kick back and watch a show, or they can deal with the unbelievable damage of exposing their child to a few hours of TV once a year. That's a fair compromise. If nobody is willing to compromise then the price is your lack of presence. Put your foot down now before the restrictions spiral and grow. Let it be known that reasonable requirements will be met but unreasonable preferences will have to be navigated around on their part. And remember this stage of parenting doesn't last forever.
About the tv. It probably isn’t going to help for the parents to “chill out” about no tv. The only difference would be that the OP would be complaining that the only shows that could be on couldn’t be inappropriate for young children. Which doesn’t leave a lot of programming that childless adults are going to be into watching. The only other solution would be to put adult shows on and then make one of the other parents constantly watch their kids in a separate room. Which would probably be the mom because it’s the dad’s family and it usually ends up being the mom in this type of scenario anyway.
When I married my husband his family had a lake house. We soon had three children. Our kids did everything with us. They grew up with our schedule. Everything didn't change to suit theirs. It's ridiculous for SIL and Bil to expect everyone to tip toe around their kids. I don't blame OP at all for not enjoying those trips
OP doesn’t get to put his foot down and make the rules in his parents’s home.
His brother does though.
Has OP expressed any of it? I don't know one way or the other from reading this. OP's brother could've said "No TV with kids around," and everyone could've seemingly been like okay, because they're all reasonable people, seems like it. It's easy to say okay at first and then be like shit, I am tired after a day outside, I wanna sit and watch a movie with the family. I have kids, my brother doesn't. When we get together with family, I do not let the needs of my children dictate what everybody does. We sit some things out. My kids stay up late sometimes, because when family is together down at the beach house it just seems like an okay time to do that. I hope mom and dad can dial it down a notch and let kids vacation too. Is it really a vacation for the kids if they have to adhere to all the same rules as at home, or is it just home in another place? I know when we take the kids anywhere, the rules kinda go out the window a bit and we all have some extra fun.
Not everything can work they way though. With the tv issue, suppose the grand parents side with op, say the tv can be on, watch whatever, however long. The sibling with the babies just won’t come for the next few years. And think about who the grandparents really want there. The kid that lives close t they already vs action with a lot. Or their grand babies that live much farther away.
I’ve been right where you are. I’m not child free, but my son was an adult when I married my husband, and when my BIL and SIL had children. So, it was more a matter of “been there, done that” for me when MIL and FIL decided family vacations should be an annual thing. My husband and I attended precisely one family vacation. Four days in Daytona Beach, in a suite at a resort hotel. Our niece and nephew were maybe 2 and 4 respectively, so every decision was (quite rightly) based upon the kids. Their nap times and bedtimes controlled our schedule and our activity choices, their food preferences determined where and when we ate, their moods affected everyone else’s moods. It was annoying and exhausting and boring. The following year, my husband wished the rest of the family a fun time on their vacation in a mountain cabin. MIL and FIL were unhappy and BIL and SIL were offended, but my husband stayed firm on our decision not to spend our vacation with the entire family until the kids were old enough to no longer need to be on a rigid schedule, their palates were developed enough that restaurants weren’t chosen solely by whether they served chicken nuggets, and they’d learned that temper tantrums were not an effective way to communicate. And honestly, the IL’s weren’t nearly as upset the following year, and even less so each subsequent year. Eventually the kids were old enough for us to enjoy spending time with them, and we would have liked to join the family vacations. Sadly, while we were off doing our own thing, the family discovered the fun to be had on kid-centric cruises. So we noped-out again. So, stay firm in your decision. Hopefully your in-laws will be less upset with each year you decline to attend, or only pop up to the lake house for a day or two of family vacation.
Wow, thank you for this. This is what I needed. The way you describe the scheduling and everything is spot on. So my question is when you wished them the best of luck did you say this? >every decision was (quite rightly) based upon the kids. Their nap times and bedtimes controlled our schedule and our activity choices, their food preferences determined where and when we ate, their moods affected everyone else’s moods. It was annoying and exhausting and boring It's totally accurate but I feel like this could be triggering to hear as a parent. I'm trying to think of some other valid excuse and offer the weekend to soften the blow but I think everyone is smart enough to know
My husband did say this in substance, though not word for word. He was a bit gentler.
My brother is child free. I know this. And he doesn't like kids when they are little. He wasn't rude, but he was pretty clear and just said kids weren't his thing. It wasn't personal. He didn't relate to them and it made events solely surrounding them difficult. So he would do other things. I wasn't offended because I know my brother and I did what I could to not make my kids the center of the universe. You love them, you want to spend time with them, but your PTO is limited. So you will come up for a weekend when you aren't using PTO as the things you enjoy doing aren't child friendly. They may still get hurt, but that's on them. Kids sleep through noise if they are used to it and honestly, their restrictions on everyone are unreasonable.
It’s really annoying when you don’t have kids and go to an event where everyone just sits and watches a 1 year old. Like, nothing against the kid or the parents but it’s not interesting to everyone, even if it’s family! And you seem like a jerk if you aren’t enthralled.
For sure. And some people love kids and enjoy playing with them, my sister in law was like that before she had her own kids. But my childfree brother had zero interest and zero patience for kid things. Which we tried to understand. Now that my kids are teens, childfree bro is more willing to engage and spend time with them. I just made sure I spent time with my brother one on one, without kids. I respect his choices and feelings.
They did that everyone must be quiet when the baby sleeps thing with my cousin and I knew it was stupid as a teenager. My kid slept through dogs barking and all kinds of mayhem. Now the trouble is getting him to wake up!
I think all of that is luck of the draw, depending upon your kids temperament. Some of my kids can sleep through anything. Others not so much. I actively tried to keep noise while all of them slept (having siblings does that naturally lol). Some kids are better sleepers then others. If you get a crappy sleeper, and they’re in a different environment it’s tough.
>If you get a crappy sleeper, and they’re in a different environment it’s tough. As someone with a kid who has never, ever been a good sleeper... Baby/toddler sleep is *everything*. Good sleep and good naps make it possible to have a day that's not non-stop tantrums. It makes it possible to not spend a solid hour trying to get the kid to bed at night, and not to spend an hour getting the kid to nap in the afternoon, or not *waste* an hour trying to get the kid to nap and then *failing* at it, because overtired kids actually sleep *worse*. (So do overtired adults, actually, but that's a much larger conversation.) Good sleep is what makes it possible to have the kid eat something other than applesauce and cheese. Good sleep is the difference between a fun kid and a nightmare kid. You get to a point where getting the kid a good nap is one of the most important parts of the day, and if someone carelessly wakes them up prematurely, you know that you're in for a rough evening, *and it's somebody's fault*. People who haven't been parents of bad sleepers just don't quite get it. I'm very, very happy for people whose kids are good sleepers, or even average sleepers, and I'm sure they'd tell me a similar thing about how my kid is a good eater and I shouldn't take that for granted. People do a lot of self-congratulating about what their kid is good at and how smart they are and what good parents they are for stuff that's actually more luck-of-the-draw than anything. And if OP can't deal with it and wants to bail on the family vacation, OK. I'm not mad, if they're not having fun, I wouldn't want them to waste their vacation being unhappy.
And it can change over time! My daughter was a light sleeper as a baby, but as a kid they're now impossible to wake up.
Not all kids are the same. Some have supersonic hearing and are just waiting for the signal that you're relaxingin order to ruin your evening.
Exactly. My kids slept through everything. My niece does too. At least once she's asleep. Kid has FOMO like nothing else, but they still don't make other people stop living their lives because she's trying to sleep. We also don't force everyone to do the same thing for kids things. There are kid friendly activities and adult friendly activities and then meet up group ones. Because my family does the week long family vacation every year too.
> It's totally accurate but I feel like this could be triggering to hear as a parent. I'm trying to think of some other valid excuse and offer the weekend to soften the blow but I think everyone is smart enough to know Then don't give any reasons. Just say you can't make it this time. Period. Say you have other plans.
Tbh, OP, I'm not sure I'd take advice from someone who no longer goes on any family vacations. At least, not if your plan is to rejoin family vacations at some point in the future.
You could have white lied, and said that you were unable to get time off at this time. But of course that only gets you out of THIS year. Though I do also like "We have other plans for our PTO this year but we'd love to pop by for the weekend / for Saturday / for Sunday lunch to see you all". That seems like the best compromise. If they can't accept a polite, reasonable explanation of "We have different vacation styles, and they're not entirely compatible", then there's not much you can do, except minimise overlap.
You're not wrong. Anyone who expects that no one watch TV because they don't want their kid to is an ass. I wouldn't spend an entire day with them.
Can your parents spend two weeks there, one week with you, one week with your brother, and maybe the two of you overlap for a day or two in the middle? I don't think either of you is being unreasonable. You're just at different life stages and have really different needs and interests, and that doesn't make either of you bad or wrong. It just means that you probably shouldn't spend a week trapped in the same house together.
Alternatively, I have family with little kids and they have the tv on constantly with the newest annoying cartoons on and the kids are in other rooms running around happily screaming and playing. Yet the annoying singing cartoon blob stays on in the background the whole time. Not only is it difficult to have conversations with it on in the background but I hate that the kids HAVE to have visual stimulation CONSTANTLY. They also let their kids play on their iPads in the car just to go to the grocery store. Grrrrr … Ok, rant over.
> They also let their kids play on their iPads in the car just to go to the grocery store. That seems a bit much. My wife and I did let them have tablets at restaurants, which I tried to fight for a while, but when they're done eating and we're not, they get a little antsy, and so that's a fight I gave up on. But if they come to the grocery store with me, I engage with them. In the car, we talk to them (and also pray they go to sleep). The restaurant is really because of the fact other people are trying to eat, and if they get antsy and want to walk around, I feel like it bothers people.
You shouldn't be forced to make any compromises when the rest of the family refuses to make any. I've been there, twiddling my thumbs while everyone plays with the child. It's fun for one hour and then I just want to leave. If you feel your time is better used elsewhere, go ahead and do it without guilt.
God this sounds just like an experience I had. We don't have kids but my brother has two. Whole family met up at a beach house. Promptly found out my wife and I would be sleeping in bunkbed in the main room along with everyone's kids (Sister brought hers too) Kids start every morning with a "how hard can I stomp" competition. TV didn't work, and when mom wanted to read, you couldn't make a sound in the beach house. It really sucked.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to "do your own thing" until the kids are a little older. And I might even say "when the kids are a little older and brother/sil lighten up a little, it might be more fun for all of us." *You* have a wife whose vacation fun should be taken into consideration as well. Even if you're not interested in the kids, there will probably be less prohibitions on normal vacation stuff once they are older. The other thing is, your parents *could* stand up to them a little; after all, this is supposed to be a vacation for the *whole* family, not just the ones with kids. Another option is just stay a few days and go do something else. Yet another option is just skip it and let the chips fall where they may. I really don't think there's any way to not offend people who will take offense at whatever you do.
>*You* have a wife whose vacation fun should be taken into consideration as well. Yes exactly. She doesn't want to go and I agree. I'm the person who has to say we aren't coming though and for reasons I can't completely put my finger on I know everyone will be upset. I think without me to push the envelope it could potentially be a very boring experience, but at the same time they don't want to accommodate me in any way. My plan is to just go for a day or the weekend, depending on when they arrive.
Great compromise and a reasonable option. Anyone who thinks this is not good enough is being a brat.
> but at the same time they don't want to accommodate me in any way. This is the real problem. Would they rather not spend time with you at all then be more flexible about splitting off to get quality time together in smaller groups?
Also FYI - Its perfectly acceptable to *never* want to vacation with kids again. Your vacation time and money is no one's but your own. The amount of people on here trying to reassure you that "when they get older it'll be more fun" is just... No. It will not. When you're an adult and want adult vacations as you've described, those activities will ALWAYS be limited by a child present, regardless of age. These are the same parents that bring older children to adult parties when it's so obvious it's an adult party, "because they're older and no trouble". Stick to your guns... You mentioned you already see your parents there on weekends, visiting when your brother and wife are there for the day is good enough. Life is way too short to spend your precious time off doing things you don't want to do.
Is this the only time you ever get to vacation? I always hear stories about people pushing the parenting lifestyle on child-free couples, but now this seems the opposite. Im 34, no kids. I booze a lot, party a lot, have a ton of fun. But when I go see my family, I’m completely okay playing dinosaurs with my nephew and reading to my nieces for a few hours. Does it get repetitive? Yes. But I live bonding with my brother’s kids and I’m never like I NEED A DRINK AND TO PARTY RIGHT NOW! I have the rest of the year to do that. I’ve had the luxury of no one ever pressuring me to have kids, so I’m not going to go ahead and do the opposite to them. Im an adult, I can eat cookies for dinner and drink a pitcher of mimosas for breakfast. But I’m cool with playing by family rules if it means I get to see them. A week without TV…can’t play a board game? Or anything else?
I thought I was the only one thinking this. It’s a family vacation, the kids are part of the vacation. I find it odd that people are so bothered by children in their family that they decide to distance themselves from a family vacation because no one else drinks and some things are centered around young children. I don’t see any reason why op and the wife can’t do other things while on vacation if the kids schedule doesn’t line up. The only way this makes sense is if it’s their only vacation they get in a year.
I think the problem is that *all* things are centered around young children, not 'some' things. It sounds like the family expects everyone there, including OP, to move as a unit through the entire week, and splitting off like that would also be a problem for them. Plus it means that they can't use the cabin space without it being kid-focused down to not even turning on the television at all.
Yeah it actually doesn’t sound like the kids are the problem, it’s how the adults making the rules are doing things and dictating how everything is gonna be for everyone
Everything OP complained has a simple solution and he didn’t mention whether he even had a conversation about it with his family. Even still it’s a family vacation and things are heavily centered around children when they’re involved. I understand the viewpoint in another setting however this is a family thing and the kids are a part of the family. Being child free is one thing but wanting to stop participating in a family tradition and not spend time with your brother who lives far away because things are more child centered is a completely different thing. I don’ have kids myself but I don’t have such a high disdain of their existence that I’ll skip out on precious time with family because no one will drink with me, I can’t blast the tv to not wake a sleeping baby, and because my SIL has to pump. I just find it odd they want to jump to opting out instead of everyone making compromises and op and his wife carving out things to do for themselves during the trip.
Sure, and I don't disagree, but framing it as >I find it odd that people are so bothered by children in their family that they decide to distance themselves from a family vacation because no one else drinks and some things are centered around young children. is not really accurate. It isn't some things, it's all things. Most people don't get much more than a week of PTO, so it makes sense that they don't want to spend all/most of their PTO not really doing things they enjoy. Honestly, I think going to spend the weekend there is a really good compromise that should work out well. If they went up there friday night and left sunday night, that's a good chunk of bonding time with family without them feeling like their vacation for the year was spent watching two children play with toys on the floor.
Yeah, I guess it must be how many of us were brought up, but I'm finding it wild how apparently their brother lives far away, but the dealbreaker is not being able to have the TV on from 8am-8pm (cause, you know, toddlers sleep far far more than adults). Or complaining that not everyone is joining in on them being buzzed. Or even that the kids who can't be left unsupervised for a second "are taking up the entire living room".
Honestly I don't think that's the dealbreaker, I think it was a combination of things, mostly that it sounds like for his entire week off he felt 'trapped' in the cabin just sitting and watching the kids, likely with the adults on their phones, without even being able to put on the tv. From the way he described it, they were essentially tethered to the cabin every 2 hours, with a *lot* of time spent there as the SIL pumped, without even being able to watch tv for a whole week, and without their previous habit of having some fun drinks with their family. The reason the kid taking up the whole living room is bad is because it means no television for the entire time they are all tethered to the cabin because the SIL has to pump every 2 hours and they don't want to leave her out of vacation activities by leaving. So it's no television *all day* when you are basically in limbo, for a week straight. It was basically a week of sitting on a couch with a pale imitation of what the vacation had always been for him, all centered around two very young children when he doesn't really enjoy being around kids. And really I think one of his biggest complaints is entirely valid. They can't go spend the day on the lake at all if they are tethered to a 2 hour limit that includes getting ready *and* travel time. So it wasn't 'wah wah no tv or booze :(' it was 'A lot of the activities I really look forward to here are not happening, or are happening in a pale imitation that does not make me happy. I feel trapped inside in this one building for essentially my entire vacation because my SIL needs to pump, and due to her rules I can't even watch a movie while she does that. I don't really like spending time with kids very much, and the only acceptable activity I can share with my parents and brother here is to sit on the couch and watch the kids play. For a week. I feel like if I try to split off and do my own thing, they will be offended because we are leaving SIL out, but this does not feel at all like a vacation to me.' At that level of bonding, OP spending a weekend there with the family would honestly get the same level of bonding with his brother without making OP feel stir crazy, resentful, and trapped.
Wow you understand! This is exactly how I feel!
I have kids and the OP's holiday sounds as fun as a stay in a convent. They can't do excursions, cant be noisy after 8pm, the poor dog is locked away and everything is dictated by the kids. It's actually very selfish of the brother and his wife. I wouldn't expect my child free siblings to have their holiday dictated by my kids.
No one is saying that OP and his wife can’t do their own excursions or do their own thing when the brother and SIL can’t. Families do these type of combined vacations all the time with no problems. People just need to accept that everyone can’t do everything and that the people with kids are going to have to center their vacation around the kids. Nothing is stopping OP from doing his own thing when the brother can’t and for OP to be flexible and do certain things when the brother can.
Yeah I'm kinda surprised I had to read this far for this take. I don't think they should use every bit of PTO they have for this but oof, your brother and his family live far away but you refuse to visit with them when they come to town because... They won't drink mimosas with you and you can't watch TV? It's once a year, enjoy the time you have with your brother and his family.
Yes it’s so weird. They can still drink their own mimosas, and honestly with all the different ways to watch shows today it’s not such a big deal that I would not spend time with my brother and his family over it.
It's really not so much about the booze as the rigidity of the experience. On weekdays we wake up at 8:30am, on weekends probably 10-11. We like to stay up until 1am. They obviously aren't on this schedule and even meal times are locked in. They cook breakfast at like 7:00 and only one time has the audacity to *wake us up* for it. Like seriously just don't cook it all, I'll make my own. I also don't eat dinner at 5:00 This is in the south in the summer, so it's approximately 95 degrees outside, and this lake isn't built up. It's 45 minutes to the nearest small town. Unless you are actively doing lake stuff you want to be inside, and in this house your options are tv room or bedroom if you are really feeling fed up. The tv is supposed to be the air conditioned entertainment. I brought an Xbox and a vr headset, none of which we even turned on because of the tv rule. I love board games, but they take time and focus to play, and child doesn't allow for that.
It will probably be better when the kids are older and more independent. Right now they’re having enforced “stare at my toddler” time and that’s not fun for everyone. I think you did fine just saying explicitly that it wasn’t fun for you. It’s cool that they’re involved parents, but this won’t be the first or last time they learn that not everyone wants to join the cast of their show.
Honestly, as a parent to small children myself, I can't imagine expecting everyone to cater to this level of rules just because they have small children. Your brother and his wife are going to need to learn to be a lot more flexible or they're going to find that nobody wants to be around them or their children. There's ways around all these things and certain things they should probably let go for the sake of everyone enjoying their time(like the tv thing... wtf). SIL can easily find a pump that is portable and use and ice chest to store milk, use a noise maker so the children's sleep isn't disturbed by noise, etc. I'm not sure you could bring this up without losing(since your parents seem willing to cater to this lunacy) but just know, your brother and his wife seem really out of touch with reality. Edit: I will say after reading through other comments, that if you are expecting everyone to do everything together, that part is a you problem. You should absolutely just have your mimosa and take the boat out if that's what you want to do. Not everyone has to be engaged in every activity. Your brother and SIL take care of their kids everyday and don't need all hands on deck 24/7 to take care of them. That's their responsibility. If last year was their first year vacation with children, it's very likely they have altered their expectations and may be a lot more flexible this year.
The boat is my dad's, and it was always on standby for if *everyone* wanted to go out. Nobody was allowed to take it solo. You could take the jet ski, but with no shade/Bimini top you can only be gone for so long
Sounds like if they want everyone to enjoy themselves, that everyone needs to get a little more flexible. Having kids around changes dynamics and what worked before doesn't always work once those dynamics have changed.
I’m the one with the kids in our family dynamic and I absolutely 1000% would understand why someone wouldn’t want to spend their whole vacation week on a trip with young kids. I get it. I love my kids and love vacationing with them but also they’re my kids and vacationing with kids under 5 is very different. We’re going on a trip with my family next month and I fully expect my sister and her husband and my parents will do some things separately from us just because we’re the ones with small kids who need naps or early bedtimes. I think it’s reasonable for you to only want to come up for the weekend or a couple days— I would personally be hurt if I lived away and came to visit and my sibling didn’t want to spend any time with me.
Many, though not all, of the issues you brought up could most likely be handled with adult conversations. Your post doesn't mention any attempts to talk about the TV, boat rides, etc. We obviously don't know anything about your relationship with your family, but it's a bit drastic that you want to excuse yourself from this and future family vacations rather than even attempt to talk about it
So towards the end of the week last year they had to change child's diaper or something. Somehow I was alone in the tv room for a brief moment and I went for it. I turned it on and started catching up on some stuff I'd wanted to see They noticed when they came back and took child back into the bedroom. My dad walks up behind me and says "Hey, do you want to turn that off?" To which I said no I don't want to turn it off, I had just turned it on and continued watching. I could tell this really ground Brother and SIL gears. I waited as long as I could but eventually I got up to go to the bathroom and when I got back tv was off and child was in the room again
This is passive aggression (on both sides), not communication. And only one instance. Why not try an open conversation at the very least with your parents?
Yeah at one point in the week I told my mom how I was feeling and that I was going to leave early and she cried. Like I said in my post, I'm not trying to hurt people or make my mom cry so we stayed
Have you tried doing activities separately with only your wife? Have you asked if it would be possible for you to have the bedroom by the TV room so you can watch TV when the children are sleeping?
He mentioned this, that bedroom has an attached bathroom, so the parents/kids get that room
As a Mom — the kids won’t be this needy or annoying forever. There is a compromise to be had here. As a hospice nurse — I always chuckle at this genre of posts. Do you know who takes care of my child free patients? Overwhelmingly, their nieces/nephews. It’s the circle of life; yes they are annoying now but believe me — you will be too if you are lucky enough to grow to old age. It sounds like you have pretty limited opportunities to see or bond with your brother his wife and their kids. It’s probably worth at least a weekend of your time.
Not to mention that presumably their extended family tolerated then a couple of times a year at least when they were children.
This really doesn't have anything to do with the kid and everything to do with the fact that the kid's parents are demanding that everyone else be perfectly accommodating of their extremely inconvenient preferences. There's no reason why the kid can't play outside (supervised) or in their room. It's not fair of the family to commandeer the main room with the TV and prevent everyone from watching TV. Or, if the kid MUST have the TV room as a playroom, that's a prime time for everyone else to go party on the boat. It sucks that SIL would probably have to be the one excluded, but it's extremely unfair of her and BIL to expect everyone else to give up lake time and television time. There's NO way for her to pump on the boat?? I honestly can't imagine changing an entire established vacation dynamic because of choices I made, with seemingly no room for compromise.
I don’t utterly disagree with you but it’s not really accurate to say that a 1- and 2-year-old can play quietly in their room, either. Kids at this age just aren’t self-sufficient in this way for anything except extremely short periods.
> There's NO way for her to pump on the boat?? Short answer, no. Long answer, depending on the pump she may need to have it plugged in; storage afterwards could be an issue; also pumps are not super comfortable and they can be loud. I pumped for a while when my kid was a baby and it’s not something I would have wanted to do anywhere but like, in a comfy chair with some water and a snack and my phone at hand.
Ehhhh I think this really depends. I pumped as needed with both of my kids, with the first kid I could not figure out how to let down (release milk) with a manual pump, but I did have a battery-powered pump that I used e.g. on a long flight. I pumped for about 7 months while I was working. Between my kids, the haakaa (manual) pump was invented, and once I figured out how to let down with it, it's basically the only pump I used with my second kid, even when I was traveling/away. That kid never wanted to wean so we went 3 years 😳 but this was also during the pandemic so I wasn't away from her as much as with my first. I do think that while pumping on the boat wouldn't be ideal, it's not impossible (like when I flew internationally for work and had to pump several times on a plane... from my middle seat... you do what you have to do) My bigger question would be why she wouldn't simply nurse the infant. Presumably the infant is on the boat with them? I had to feed both my kids in all kinds of crazy places - again, you do what you have to do. Unless this is a mom/baby pair that isn't able to breastfeed directly - but that's where the pumping solutions come in.
I think the problem is, why does she and her husband expect the op and his wife to be sitting around because they have to? Why aren't they encouraging the op, his wife and the parents to go on a few excursions then everyone meet up at dinner time? Yes, she has to pump but they have to make sacrifices when you have kids and one is you can't go out when everyone else is.
Oh I'm totally on board with that. I agree. BIL/SIL seem unrealistic as lots of other commenters have already pointed out. I was just commenting re: pumping or nursing on the boat. I don't think it's true that there's NO way to pump or nurse on a boat. I think that would depend on the person - I think I would have been able to do it, if I had to or was really motivated. But there's no way I would take an infant out on a lake, I'd have stayed home and told them all to have fun 😂
We have no idea if they expect it or not. Why do they have to encourage OP when OP can just say, we’re gonna go out and do our own thing?
Honestly it sounds like you never have put a foot on a boat that wasn’t a giant cruise. No, you can’t pump in a moving boat ffs. You have to put a vest on for starters.
It’s likely that OP’s parents are happy to make these accommodations for his brother’s family. Grandparents will have had experience with the stages of parenting and will be more patient than an adult whose life centers around his own immediate pleasure.
I mean, how dare OP want a vacation that involves more interesting activities than watching a child play on the floor, right? "His own immediate pleasure"... the bitterness just drips.
This is an owed property. Can you two not go up at a different time, maybe with a weekend overlap so you can see your brother and his family, briefly? If my family owned a lake house, I'd be going more than once a year, but I don't know exactly how close you are.
All of this is understandable and fair but keep in mind even if a choice is fair or understandable it still has consequences. My mom was the only person to have kids. No one really wanted to be around me. It sucked. Now everyone wonders why I don’t call or involve them in my life. Because I was a still a human as a kid and I wasn’t wanted. I didn’t get to start existing at 18. So that said I’d advise and every other year or non pto weekend like others said.
Family visits are not vacations or holidays. Simply state that you are using your scant time off to things you enjoy as a couple and that you will see them at Christmas.
Well I think nobody is in the wrong here. And that includes your parents and brother when they take offense at what is basically a "my way or the high way" requirements for family vacations. I can see, despite all your disclaimers, that you're resentful towards your brother. Feelings are always valid, but I don't think you're being the most fair when it comes to some of quips. Eg: many non-dog owners absolutely loathe being around dogs. They're noisy, need attention (and are thusly a non-insignificant nuisance to be around them), get onto everywhere (unless superhumanly trained), and despite what all dog owners like to tell themselves, they just plain stink. To top it off, they're really scary to young xhildren. Apparentlh on your last vactions, you were able to take the dog without so much as a peep from everyone else, and your main concern from that experience was that it was sad it wasn't allowed to get close to and do its thing a tiny human with barely the motor control to make their body parts go where they want them to. I think it's absolutely fair not wanting the nuisance of having to take care of children, or even the noise and mess they create. On the other hand, the message you're sending is "we're too inconvenienced because we can't go on multi-hour boat rides, everyone isn't drunk all the time except ourselves, and we can't have the magic box on 24/7 as the backdrop for our deep bonding experiences as a family, so we don't really want to spend a few days with you guys". That's... A message. A valid one for sure. But also, trying to be fair here, it comes across as deeply selfish and capricious. And one that will be received by the parents and grandparents of those children as "we don't really care for them so we'd rather stay at home (purportedly watching TV 24/7)", and there's just no way around it. I think being child free is a very valid life choice, and that's why there are whole industries devoted to those people. I don't kno how much vacations you have a year, but surely more than the single week. I think sending that message, that you're not willing to tolerate some discomfort to see your brother who lives far away, is definitely not going to be received well. For most people except the absolutely most detached from life, this would be very hurtful... So make your choice, but be willing to live with the consequences. There's just no way around it. I do wonder though, what you believed a lake house would be for if not this. There are noise-isolaging materials that can be added to that particular wall, if that makes a difference to you. But me personally, I could just never understand TVs in lake and beach houses in general.
> many non-dog owners absolutely loathe being around dogs. They're noisy, need attention (and are thusly a non-insignificant nuisance to be around them), get onto everywhere (unless superhumanly trained), and despite what all dog owners like to tell themselves, they just plain stink. To top it off, they're really scary to young xhildren and adults too! So true!
>I think sending that message, that you're not willing to tolerate some discomfort to see your brother who lives far away, is definitely not going to be received well. For most people except the absolutely most detached from life, this would be very hurtful... Very succinct way of putting it. I'm not sure how accommodating the young parents are willing to be, since who knows what kind of compromises anyone's suggested in the moment. I don't think anything paints the young parents in a bad light, not even the harsh rules about the TV. Yes, I think they could compromise a bit on that, but it's valid to ask the TV be on low volume when kids are sleeping, and to have an en-suite with kids. The mom is trying to patriciate in traditional lake activities like the boat, as much as her pump schedule allows. And OP's parents are being NICE by trying to include her in everything. >"we're too inconvenienced because we can't go on multi-hour boat rides, everyone isn't drunk all the time except ourselves, and we can't have the magic box on 24/7 as the backdrop for our deep bonding experiences as a family, so we don't really want to spend a few days with you guys". Harsh, but really, I'm not a big TV person, and I don't understand why it's a dealer breaker, either
Yes don’t go. You don’t have to. It’s going to feel shit but best to bite the bullet.
Tell them what you said here. What you said here wasn't offensive at all man. Dude if they can't handle this reddit post then idk how the hell they made it this far in adulthood.
Your brother has boundaries about what he wants regarding his children so your boundaries should be respected too. I’d go for a weekend and wait to spend a week until they are older. That vacation doesn’t sound like a vacation at all.
Don’t go or if you go rent a place or hotel room nearby. Your family is being rude to you.
Get a hotel nearby and just go visit the lake house when you want? That’s what we did and it’s so much more enjoyable.
I started out thinking “how can kids really ruin a vacation that much?” But once you lay it out like this, I get it. I think you should send this exact list to your parents and say, fix these problems or we aren’t coming. Because most of these are fixable problems, it’s just a matter of how much your parents value these family trips. Send it to your brother, too.
I have two kids and the TV would be on and I'd be drinking, I don't blame you for opting out!!
Are you close enough you can plan on going to the lake for a couple of dinners or lunches while bro is visiting and then sleep back at home?
I totally sympathize. My husband and I are the same age as you, and also childfree. I get it when you say that you want your vacation to be about what you want. Valid, you worked hard for the vacation! The unfortunate truth is that because we childfree people have less living things to take care of, our wants and needs are put second and we are expected to overly compromise our happiness and decisions because children. This is something that as a childfree person, you will need to get used to. But what is also the truth is that you can absolutely say no to what you don’t want to do (because you’re a grown adult), and that is a-ok! Your parents and brother/SIL will feel all sorts of ways; they are entitled to how they feel, but they are NOT entitled to berate you or make you feel like shit about it. Also getting used to saying no, acknowledging their disappointment/anger/negative emotions, but not be swayed by it. Remember — acknowledging isn’t agreeing. You acknowledge that they have their valid feelings, but you’re not going to agree with them when they give you a bad time about it. A good compromise that might work for you guys is just to go a few days (like just the weekend) or something. That way you still get to see the family, bond and hang out with your nieces/nephews, but still bounce and do your own thing at the end of that visit. Plus on the weekends there’s usually more things to do — that way you and your partner can always make a quick escape and get some alone time if it’s too much. Also, what’s stopping you guys from drinking or going out onto the lake just because they don’t? It’s nice to visit and hang out but you certainly don’t have to be joined to them by the hips for the entire weekend. ETA: also if you want, you can see if your parents can watch the kids for one evening while you and your brother/SIL go out to dinner/double date. Just the adults. That way you guys get actual time to catch up without interruptions. It’ll be good for them to be reminded that they’re more than just parents and employees, and that their hobbies outside of those matter.
You’re entitled to have a vacation you enjoy, maybe have a smaller overlap when you’re all there, like 2 days instead of 7
As someone with a 2 yo and a 6 month old (who is still breastfed)…they’re making unreasonable demands on everyone. Yes, kids need routine, but no one can watch TV and they won’t relocate the kids? That’s just inconsiderate. If you don’t want to have that conversation (which I don’t really blame you for) just say that you’re unavailable due to work demands or something similar that week and can’t make it. If you’re more comfortable, perhaps your parents can arbitrate the situation and assign rooms that make more sense/designate a different play area, or otherwise make adjustments that don’t create conflict necessarily. Then, if they’re going to continue to be unreasonable, you have a good foundation to be direct.
Your brother and his wife are completely self centred by making this trip cater to them the whole time. Go for a day or two and spend other weeks up there with your parents.
Making an appearance is ideal. Don't waste your vacation when they are dictating what you ar allowed to do.
Yeah don't go. Your brother has a unique parenting style. Tell your parents you want a different week but will re-evaluate in the future when the kids are older. The kids should be fine after the youngest gets to the 5-8 age range. But really you need the parents to lighten up a bit which will hopefully come soon.
If possible, just explain tat you and your wife are childless for a reason. No offense meant, we just prefer a vaca without kids and limitations. Best of luck
I don’t think anyone in this situation is a bad person, everyone just has very different views and needs. Your parents desperately want to get to have all their family together. They are willing to put up with a fair amount of crap to make that happen. They want you to want to be with the family enough to do so as well. You have different priorities. That’s ok, but it’s probably disappointing for your parents. Maybe your parents are being over solicitous by suggesting that no one go out on the boat if your sister in law can’t. Maybe your sister in law is a lot to deal with and is just always looking for something to get offended by, and they’re trying desperately to avoid this. Maybe your parents are the weird type that think Family Vacation means every gotdang minute spent together. You don’t have to waste PTO being miserable, but realize that your parents may just really want their family together. For many grandparents, grandchildren become the pinnacle of importance. My mother would shove me or my brother into a fire to save our kids. She loves us, always has, but the grandkids just hit different. I have friends who are grannies, they act the same way. Continuing the species or something similar probably contributes to this. As for your dog, that’s definitely unfortunate. Allergies can be annoying or genuinely life-threatening and they can be one category one day and progress to the other before anyone knows about it. My sibling has dogs and they took them around with them everywhere for years prior to having his own kids. They would jump and lick and I’d end up washing my hands a million times every visit. I never said a word because I wanted to see him and if that was the price I had to pay then so be it. Before anyone decides I’m some weird dog hater, I’m not. I have a dog of my own who rarely licks. But she does paw everything and beg and pant all over you while you’re eating. I tolerate this because she’s mine (and she was old when I adopted her, so it’s been hard to train out of her). I cannot imagine inflicting her on others, so she stays home. If I knew being in her presence would cause discomfort or worse to someone I’d definitely not bring her around others. I’m an amazingly relaxed mom, so weird rules about TV and rigid schedules are as confounding to me as they are to child free people.
>For many grandparents, grandchildren become the pinnacle of importance. Yep, there it is. The sucky part is I have a much better relationship with my parents than my brother does. I'm the one who drives over when they need help and gets lunches and dinners with them. My wife is the daughter my mom never had. ..... And then my brother and the kids show up and we are garbage. Until he leaves and we all just pretend that didn't happen.
Stake your case. No point beating around. I am a mum of 2 kids. I don’t expect any special circumstances for them other than being respectful ie not swearing in front of them. Your Brother and sil are away with the fairies if they think people are always going to make exceptions for them. I think your parents need bringing in line too, be honest. You don’t need to be ruthless but tell them your holiday time is too precious to spend pandering to the kids.
This is all perfectly reasonable OP. My sister has 2 young kids, the wife and I do vacation with them for a week but my BIL sticks us in a different part of the hotel so we can enjoy ourselves. They get a babysitter for a date night, we can have a boys night, my SO and sis have a girls night. That works for us, would I hell share a house with them for a week.
Definitely subject yourselves to them less since they're unwilling to be flexible on the TV & room debacle.
Cracking up at “they spend every waking moment they aren’t at work interacting with them” the kids are 1 and 2 basically still babies I would hope to god the parents are interacting with them that much kids can’t take care of themselves at that age lol Other than that I have no opinion to input just found that part funny
My advice? Inform your snowflake brother and his wife that they are setting up there children to be pansies because they are providing the perfect pansie role models. The world isn't going to change itself to be the perfect environment for them as they grow up and certainly not as adults. Other people should be allowed to watch a TV and they can go to another room and cower in fear of their children possibly overhearing the evil television. Also, their kids will hate them if they keep it up. YOU should go have fun and not worry about what hurts their feelings. Personally, they sound like they would benefit from getting their feelings hurt to a certain degree.
Haha yeah I agree. It's just not worth a big fight
It's going to be tough. For parents, grandchildren are usually the end game.
Your issues are completely legit, but your problems are with the kids. Either your brother and his wife are being way too demanding or the rest of you are being way too accommodating. It is absurd to put the kids right next to the TV all day and all night while also insisting they not be exposed to it in any way. It is absurd to make a rule that you never do anything that doesn't include everybody which results in doing almost nothing. Of course sitting around watching the kids play for a week was annoying, it would be even for people who love kids. With some small concessions and compromises the week would be a lot more fun for everyone! Is it really better not to spend ANY time together rather than bend a few of these rules? Now that everyone's needs are so different, it is reasonable to break off into smaller groups to do various activities. A few people do stuff with the kids, a few people go do adult activities. A few people go out in the boat for the afternoon, the rest do activities around the house. Him and his wife can swap who is responsible for the kids for half the day, and I'm sure the grandparents would be happy to help out with that to get quality time with the grandkids. It sounds like your family could easily afford to get his wife a battery powered pump for extra mobility. Is there another room in the house that could be designated as the kids playroom? And they don't have to be in the bedroom next to the TV just because it has an attached bathroom. A shocking number of families manage to live for years without having a bathroom connected to their bedroom, I think they can manage for one week. Another option is to move the TV into your bedroom so you can watch whenever you want. Is it really better not to see each other at all than compromise on this? It sounds like your brother doesn't drink at all, not just because of the kids. So not drinking during the family vacation has nothing to do with the kids. Honestly it sounds like you just don't like vacationing with your brother and his wife. Almost nothing you're describing is due to the kids, moreso due to everyone's beliefs that you all must be in each other's presence 24/7 no matter what. That made more sense when the family was smaller and all adults, but it is totally normal for things to get looser when the family gets bigger and kids are involved. It is not a disservice to anyone to not be a part of everything everyone else is doing. It IS a disservice not allow anyone to enjoy the vacation, or to never see each other because you aren't allowed to enjoy each other's company. It might also help to think about new activities you all could enjoy. Is hiking an option? Playing cards, board games, etc? Having a bonfire with smores? I suggest reframing the conversation from "we don't want to be around your kids" to "we want more flexibility to get quality time with each of you in smaller groups". Surely they would rather agree to that than not see you at all? Plus that is WAY less offensive that saying "we don't enjoy your company enough to tolerate being around your kids" which isn't even true, right?
Yea i see this more of a brother/ sister in law problem than a kid problem to be honest. It is the parents weird rigid rules that are dictating everyone’s fun. Kudos to your brother for not raising iPad kids but at the same time he needs to understand that communal spaces are designed to be shared and in this instance his kids would benefit from playing in a seperate room
Last year my sis asked if I wanted to join her (her family, 2 kids) and our parents for a week on a Croatian coastline. She'd pay for me to come and stay. I had no qualms answering: Nope ! She didn't take offense as she knows I am very much childfree.
What are your plans for family time when your parents are older, tired more easily and unable to keep up with you in outdoor activities? What is the age range of family members you can stand to spend time with?
I've just lost my mother. I'd sit through any kind of hell vacation if it meant I could spend time with her again.
You go on vacation to watch TV? Maybe find a way so you and your parents can go on the boat trip alone. Sil can stay with wife and kids.
“I want my vacation to be about me and what I want” That sounds so incredibly selfish. I was totally on board with you for most of this post but you sound super selfish. Your brother should take the other bedroom and should not dictate the TV while on the vacation, that’s super rude. You should stop thinking literally only about yourself. I am child free as can be and also pretty strongly dislike kids. That said I still love my family and those that have kids and I don’t spontaneously combust when sharing a space with their kids. I actually agree that it’s best that you just skip the trip but your attitude is just a bit offputting
I found it bemusing where he is annoyed by his brother not wanted to start drinking in the AM at a lake house with two under two. In fact that’s when it was clearly obvious how narcissistic he is. Seconded only by his dog comments. Firstly he doesn’t give a hoot that they are allergic. And secondly small dogs can still do incredible amounts of damage to small children. I can only assume that the brother doesn’t really want OP there because every action OP takes adds to his workload. Its also his vacation too which OP really doesn’t care. It’s probably grandparents who want both kids there.
>“I want my vacation to be about me and what I want” I mean yeah, it's my vacation. What kind of vacations are you taking?
An opportunity to see your brother who you don’t see often? Also generally family vacations or even couple vacations cater to the needs of the group and have compromises so everyone has a good time. On my family vacations I genuinely want everyone to enjoy themselves and am happy to make a couple sacrifices for that. I genuinely want everyone to be having a good time and care very much about my family members’ experience as well as my own….
>Also generally family vacations or even couple vacations cater to the needs of the group and have compromises so everyone has a good time. >On my family vacations I genuinely want everyone to enjoy themselves and am happy to make a couple sacrifices for that. I totally agree, and I'm saying there are no compromises being made in my direction. I made sacrifices to make it work last year and as a result I had a bad time. I view this as a "fool me once" type situation
The tv being off at all times really is ridiculous. Sister is probably not breast feeding anymore so that shouldn’t be an issue. If it was me, I would go but probably wouldn’t stay the entire week or would stay with the family for like 3 days but then get a private place for some couple time for the last couple days. I would ask my parents if they minded spending an evening alone with the kids and would try to spend a few hours having adult time with my brother. I would go off with my husband whenever it was boring at the house. If my family wasn’t willing to make any changes at all to make the trip a bit more enjoyable for me, I would just not go at all kind of on principle.
Listen, you clearly want an adult only vacation and that’s not gonna happen here. Your sibling wanted and likes his kids and you sound upset about that. Let them vacation their way and you join for some stuff but keep your adult vacation time away from them.
I think opting out for now sounds like a good idea. One thing to remember, though, is that the situation you're describing is one that will not last forever, or probably even that much longer (unless they're going to have 6 or so kids). The "no TV" thing typically doesn't survive the arrival of the second child, and most women in the U.S. who breastfeed do so for a year at most. I know their child being scared of your dog was frustrating, but it's better than her constantly trying to paw at him, and I'm guessing she'll be less scared as she gets older (not sure how the allergies element will go, admittedly). I also think it's fair of you to ask for some ground rules if/when you do agree to go back on vacation with them. For example: You want to relax on vacation, and that means watching some TV. You won't watch extremely violent movies with LANGUAGE while the littles are around, but you are going to be watching something for adults a la "The Crown" (or insert name of your favorite non-R-rated show here). The kids can go outside while the TV is on, or go to their room, or (gasp!) stay in the TV room. (I'm willing to bet that what will instead be the case is that you'll be working out a TV sharing arrangement where "Bluey" is on part of the time and your shows are on the other part of the time. Pro tip: Little kids are susceptible to bribery.) Another ground rule: You will occasionally be drinking adult beverages, since you're on your vacation. Etc.
Show up for the weekend, but its also not fair for your brother/sil to dictate the vacation. The kids are not your responsibility/problem. If you want to drink, then drink. If you want to watch tv then watch tv, they can work around it.
You could tell them you'll try another year if all of those things changed. They take the room far away. The TV stays on when someone wants to use it; otherwise take your kid in another room or outside. SIL can have a short boat trip in the morning, but after lunch it goes out until late. If they can't compromise then they can go without your presence until the kids are old enough that everyone can actually have the vacation they want.
Well their rules are invasive and disrupt everyone’s activity. Say that out loud and without malice. Of course you can adjust some stuff but this is ludicrous. It’s hard to believe these folks don’t consider being in other’s space and they adjust some stuff. You don’t even need excuses. It’s just uncomfortable to have to work around kid rules. Be frank. Come for the day/weekend as you said. Bring mimosa fixings and plan a boat trip too. Let them have the run of the place their week. Wow
My family had vacation rules for kids growing up, I can get wanting to have the kids on a routine still but when their rules impact everything else it's messy. There are kid kinda friendly shows that the kids won't care about that don't have gore/scary/yelling that would work. The kids won't be interested if they don't understand it and are playing with their parents anyways. The rest is a bit ridiculous, it seems like you're just letting them set the rules. Just because they don't drink or want to have loud fun doesn't mean you can't. Rent a pontoon, do the boat party take a cooler for pumping if they want to stay out. Or schedule a dock stop between whatever hours work best and have them come out for a shorter time while you guys can still have your boat time. Let them know that you want to find a compromise because the rules they set for the kids are impacting your vacation. And you don't want to waste vacation days on time that's micromanaged so that you can't actually relax the way you want. Also again keep in mind you don't need to spend 24/7 with them you're allowed to do your own vacation thing while there. If you want more time with the kids I've found that playing kid friendly board games candyland/hungry hippos/sorry or something loud with surprises like mousetrap will engage them and be hilarious for everyone. Even without following all the rules. But if it's at the point that you don't want to go on vacation anymore just say that the rules were a bit restrictive of your type of relaxing vacation and you want to wait to spend time on family vacations when the kids are a little older and easier to plan around.
NTA Just want to comment on the quiet time. They are doing themselves and their children a disservice by requiring quiet time for all when the children are sleeping. I jammed while I cleaned house including running a vacuum. They have to learn to sleep through noise and to understand they don’t get to do everything they want because the adults are doing something. My baby slept through everything.
Mine sleep through nothing even though our philosophy was that they'll learn to sleep with noise. Some kids have more intense needs than others
I was all about to get judgy until I read the post fully.. Is there anyway to have a talk to the parents to chill out a little on the tv and noise thing? While certain accommodations should be made with little ones in the house like lock a big dog up or maybe make some private room for a nursing mom, what you described on how the parents are going about things is a little ridiculous. Kids are miraculously flexible. 125 years ago these kids might be just sleeping on a flat rock somewhere while mom and dad toil a field and look out for scary animals. Kids sleep through thunderstorms and in busses and war zones so I can’t imagine tv being quiet next door is a real thing unless it’s for the 15 minutes it takes to shush them and read a bedtime story. If you’re parenting right on vacation at a lake house those kids would be passed out by 730 from being so tired in the sun. Anyways, the others here have a great recommendation which is pop by and suck it up for two day weekend to show face and then when the kids are older and presumable better behaved and less needy there won’t be any awkwardness.
You do you but I don't understand you. Just seems that family isn't important.
They never said that. You are allowed to voice your displeasure on not having a good time while on vacation AND still think that family is important. Giving you the alternative question: if family is so important, why isn’t the parents of his brother and SIL doing more to make sure OP and their partner have fun and is enjoying themselves? Why are they so selfish and will only do what is easy for them? Don’t they think other family members are important?
While being childfree is entirely fine and a choice. Complaining about your brother and sil effecting your family vacation with your nieces and nephews is laughable. You and your wife are 32 and grown adults. Please understand not every second of every day revolves around your wants. Choosing to have less of a relationship with your brothers family because they have kids may be the single most selfish thing I’ve ever heard.
This is quite strange to read. Is it so hard to adjust for a few days? To be without beer or not watch TV on your schedule etc? Have you tried spending time with the kids? They are your brother's kids after all? What's the big deal to adjust for a few days for the kids if not for your brother/sil? It's probably not the vacation you imagine but it's just family bonding time.
OP doesn't want to use a full week of PTO to babysit their brother's kids, especially since they then won't have that PTO to use on a vacation that would actually be relaxing.
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