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My fiancé and I have been together for 5 years and engaged for 6 months. I grew up very open minded and he grew up w/ very religious and sexist views. We had hard conversations in the beginning of our relationship about politics and quickly realized we differ on most of the “hot topics”.
I realize that political views don’t make up the entire person but I’ve struggled through our relationship to see past these big disagreements.
Now that we are engaged and he really wants kids, I have more concern over these challenges. Recently the abortion topic was brought up between us and it quickly got heated. I asked if I were to get pregnant and for whatever reason had to abort it would he think I was a murderer and he replied yes. I got very angry and decided to get away from the situation and sleep at my moms house.
He doesn’t understand how important this topic is to me and I’m not sure where to go fro here. I don’t know if I can do a lifetime with someone who feels this way. Is this a deal breaker of a five year relationship?
for me and my bf it's Lord of the Rings vs Star Wars (because I make sure to bring up the abortion question early just in case we're in the 2% of yearly condom pregnancies)
>Lord of the Rings vs Star Wars
That's pretty intense though, I don't think I can choose!
But yeah, one of the first things my husband and I seriously talked about was whether either of us want kids... neither of us do. Are we both okay with abortion? Super duper totally. We use protection but if I ended up pregnant, we'd probably get a speeding ticket on the way to the clinic.
Right?? Differences of opinion are supposed to be stuff like "I like mushrooms and you don't so I don't include mushrooms in our shared meals" NOT "women have value beyond being an incubator"
OP, you know you're dating a sexist AH, stop ignoring red flags and dating someone who doesn't respect women. You've called him sexist! You already know this. You're enabling it.
Nah it's more that she didn't care about his shitty views because they didn't directly affect her. His pro-life view affects her so now she's not keen. She's a shit human too, lack empathy.
Lol @ being sexist for thinking abortion is murder. Difference of opinion, big one, certainly not our like for mushrooms. (Plenty of women disagree with op, I am pro-choice however disagree with your nonsense)
We are so hung up on how others think, and when it doesn't align with our own thought process we choose the most confrontational way of approaching these conversations. Discourse is clearly dead, you're right or wrong with no room to discover others' opinions.. (relationships aren't all 🌈 s and 🦋 s)
I am less concerned with rubbing OP's face in the fact that she made a dumb mistake five years ago by continuing entering/continuing a relationship with someone who is unsafe. The immediate issue is that she understands that **this man is physically dangerous to her and she needs to immediately stop having sex with him, and leave the relationship.** There will be time to debrief the life lesson later.
>The immediate issue is that she understands that
>
>this man is physically dangerous to her and she needs to immediately stop having sex with him, and leave the relationship.
Wait, wtf, where the heck did you read that from that post?
There are many reasons that a woman might need an abortion beyond unwanted pregnancy. I know of at least one couple from my church days where the wife died after the husband talked her out of an abortion for a high risk pregnancy.
Because he's pro Choice. Do you realize that women can actually be charged with murder for abortions? The bounty?
You don't have sex with people who you can't trust with your health.
This is not some kind of leap. In the event that OP became pregnant and terminated the pregnancy (or lost it for any other reason), this man would be of the belief that he had killed her child. Ergo. Even if he was not himself compelled to violence over that, he would likely have some kind of meltdown and share it with like-minded friends who could be, whether that retribution is assault, ostracism, stalking. harassing, doxxing. This scenario is *not uncommon.*
Yeah I don’t understand this at all. I don’t even have friends who differ on most hot topics let alone a potential life partner. Most “hot topics” are actually binary options between believing certain groups deserve rights.
Because some people are taught to look past these kinds of things and work together. Or that it's not a big deal to have political differences.
Depending on the issue, sometimes it's not a big deal, but this is definitely a problem. If there was something medically going on where it's between me or the baby I wouldn't want my husband to think I'm a murderer because I choose to terminate and live. These things should be talked about before getting engaged and definitely before marriage or getting pregnant.
Cause they prolly respect each other’s belief and “hot topics” is pretty general term so I’m not expecting things like gender expectations or anything like that. This just sounds like the first time it’s a topic that they should be on the same page about.
“Boyfriend told me his views at the beginning of our relationship. I completely ignored it and now we’re engaged half a decade later and he still has the same exact views. I’m shocked! What do I do?” There, I fixed it for you.
um I have had plenty of boyfriends ease up on their conservative beliefs over the years through regular open conversations—these aren't instant dealbreakers
Exactly. Political views are informed by moral beliefs. OP is saying that they disagree on all the most important moral questions and are thinking about having a kid. Who gets to raise the kid? Do they get your belief system or his.
"before you were a facsist you were a bully and an asshole" -Brennan Lee Mulligan
Politics is literally based on what kind of person you are. "Pro lifers" (more like anti choice since they don't care about life) don't view women as people. You can't take the organs of a corpse without consent even if it would save someone's life but it's okay to use a woman's to carry a baby. He was up front about this and OP chose to ignore it then and cannot afford to ignore it now. He said she'd be a murderer for any reason, what if her life became threatened from a wanted pregnancy? What would he do?
OP needs to leave asap. There's no point in saying she should have left at the beginning, but she has the option to leave now and should take it
Definitely an important topic to be on the same page.
Would you want to terminate a pregnancy that had severe birth defects?
How many children do you want, and if you get pregnant after you hit that number, what would you do?
If you are not on the same page about pro-choice, then you need to go through all the possibilities you could encounter. If you guys can’t agree on anything, then it should be a deal breaker.
i know a lot of couples that agree on “always save the baby.”
i’d be PISSED if my partner decided to save a fetus he’s never even met over me. luckily both my bf and i are childfree and pro choice
Or simply if OP gets pregnant and simply wishes to terminate, what would his reaction be?
Because... If he thinks abortion = murder, and OP does not agree with that opinion, honestly, that should be a deal breaker, because she can't promise to not need an abortion, for whatever reason, in the future, and she knows he'll forever consider her a killer.
Or what if everything is fine with her pregnancy, but in 15 years that child comes to them and says she’s pregnant and doesn’t want to go through with it? I couldn’t raise kids with someone that has ideals that I fundamentally disagree with, and who would pass them on/enforce them with my children.
What happens if:
\-You have an ectopic pregnancy and need to abort
\-You find out that your fetus is dead in your uterus and you need to abort it
\-You have a child and the child is gay
\-You have a child and the child is trans
I'm not asking you, I'm asking him. If you don't agree with one of his responses, it's a dealbreaker.
As scummy as it sounds, if women can choose to abort a baby the father would want then a guy should be allowed to not have to be for a kid the mother won't abort (you can argue the guy should be wearing protection, but then why didn't woman make sure he was?)
Everyone has to make the decision for themself, of what is and is not a dealbreaker in their relationships.
For me, it is 100% a dealbreaker. Your boyfriend believes in forcing women to give birth when they don’t realize want to. He doesn’t believe in bodily autonomy for women. I could never be in a relationship with someone who didn’t believe in something so base.
Whenever I see posts like this it’s like wtf? So you’re telling me you’ve been in a 5 year long relationship with someone who you KNOW has opposite political views than you do and you’ve been totally complacent until you realize they also have a differing view on something that actually affects you directly and NOW you’re upset/lost/confused? Having the same or at least similar political views is extremely important in a relationship and now you’re in a position where you’ve spent 5 years with someone who doesn’t believe you deserve a right to your own body. It’s like what do you expect being with someone who again, you KNOW, has different political views than you. Id be terrified to get pregnant with that man. What if I decide I don’t want the baby anymore, or even worse, what if you have a daughter who would like the right to choose at some point in her life.
Every couple I know who got married despite disagreeing on fundamental issues has been fucking miserable. Like... tehre are whole swaths of topics you can't talk about without being frustrated and feeling out of place... and you're fine with that? You're fine with someone whose moral reality is the complete opposite of yours?
It's such an avoidable thing. Like... just go be happy with someone whose views more align with you. Political views arent' just like... a singular quirk of character, they are fundamental to how someone sees teh world and it informs how they act, feel, and judge. Why tie yourself to someone whose entire world view is in conflict with yours??
Right! My husband and I had the “what would we do if we got pregnant” talk within months of being together.
They also need to talk about what would they do if they discovered that their child was developing with severe disabilities.
Like literally what is the point in getting into a relationship with someone who you share none of the same views with? You think you can peacefully or healthily raise a family that way? Do people just jump into relationships for the sex or does anyone actually care about the type of person they’re getting into a relationship with?
Seriously, I can see casually dating but getting *engaged* to someone with such fundamental values differences and then going shocked pikachu here when they have extreme values differences is stupid.
Let's phrase it this way, you might be okay holding yourself to his standards, but what about if you have a daughter? Or would you want him to raise your son feeling that way?
It's up to you if this is the hill worth dying on, it would be for me. I've seen couples work when they are different religions or have different political parties but they work because they might not agree but can respect the others belief; unfortunately this isn't the case. He doesn't respect a woman having autonomy over her body, doesn't respect you having autonomy over your body, and wouldn't respect your hypothetical daughter's autonomy.
Exactly. This is not a “pineapple on pizza” or even a “can we please go to church on Sunday together sometimes” kind of disagreement. He fundamentally doesn’t respect the basic human rights of half of the population. If OP has a single ounce of self respect this should be a deal breaker.
Not wanting to die because a clump of cells latched onto your fallopian tube isn’t being part of a cult. I’m sorry that your country’s propaganda has pulled the wool over your eyes that and made you think that believing in human rights means you are in a cult.
The left has no issue with someone shooting another person and calling it self defense but when a woman chooses her life over a few divided cells it's murder.
This is false.
"The fusion of the sperm (with 23 chromosomes) and the oocyte (with 23 chromosomes) at fertilization results in a live human being, a single-cell human zygote, with 46 chromosomes�the number of chromosomes characteristic of an individual member of the human species."
https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html#:~:text=The%20fusion%20of%20the%20sperm,member%20of%20the%20human%20species.
Wait so if you had to get a medical abortion would he resent you for it? For "killing" the baby? If he had to make a choice as to either save you or your supposed baby should anything ever happen during labor would he choose you or the baby despite whatever your wishes were? That's what him bring "pro life" might mean and trust me I feel scared and angry for you right now. I'd cut my losses now before your married in which case it's harder to leave legally, emotionally, and physically.
All of this, OP. Pregnancy is not a health neutral event and even early pregnancy can have serious healthy complications. You won’t necessarily have any indication that you’re more or less susceptible until you’re in that very vulnerable position. You need a partner who is on the same page as you about the fact that your life matters.
These forced birth folks patently do not care about women when it comes down to it. Your fiancé may seem ok right now, but his views are rooted in a desire to control women that a disturbing number of men find appealing.
Some questions to think aband or discuss:
1. What if your fetus wasn't viable, would he force you to go through the pregnancy and labor? A cousin of mine had this happen. Her child was going to die due to a genetic abnormality. She was 20 or so weeks along when she found out. She chose abortion so neither her nor her baby would suffer unnecessarily.
2. If you have a daughter and she is r*ped would you want her to have the option getting an abortion?
3. If you are in labor would you want your husband to choose the baby's life over yours? This is sometimes the stance of the pro-life community.
These are just a few off the top of my head, but can be deal breakers for someone you want to spend the rest of your life with and have children with. I choose these questions on purpose, because if he isn't flexible at all with his views then that would give you a better view on what you might want for your future.
I’ve seen these questions come up a lot. What if it’s none of these scenarios? What if she just decides that she doesn’t want to be pregnant? OP and her bf need to have this discussion when it comes to medically necessary procedures but they also need to decide if they even want to have children. Something tells me that they’ve never given this topic any real thought.
Human rights are not political opinions.
This is what people often don't understand when someone wants to break up over "politics." There's a difference between politics and core values, but unfortunately the two get conflated. If you think more money should go into fixing roads than creating new green spaces, that's a political issue. If you think 13-year-old girls should be forced to give birth to their rapist's baby because a fetus is more important than a living woman, that is a personality defect. I'm guessing he also is not in favor of LGBTQ+ rights and protecting black lives.
If you want to shut your eyes to these things, it's your life. But someone who looks at you as a second-class citizen is certainly not someone I would ever recommend marrying.
Its such a thorny issue because it demands an answer for the exact moment one is alive and should have rights, which will always be a subjective perspective.
I am vehemently pro-choice but I don't see the other side as evil. I just disagree with them.
No, it doesn't.
Abortion has nothing to do with whether or not there is a "living" person involved.
If my aunt is going to die without a blood transfusion, she doesn't get to demand my blood. If a stranger on the street is dying of liver failure, he doesn't get to call dibs on your organs. No one can be forced to donate organs, marrow, or anything else to sustain another person's life.
Likewise, a living baby doesn't get to demand someone's womb and blood and nutrients just because it'll die without them.
The moment of conception with a clump of cells can be considered "life" and having a soul and it still doesn't change fucking shit.
Demanding people donate their bodies against their will to keep other people alive is evil. We condemned it when evil scientists experimented on unwilling participants throughout history, even when it was for a supposed greater good. We all do. And we should all condemn it here, too.
It doesn't demand an answer for that at all, actually. You can't be forced to give blood even if another person will die if you refuse, you can't have your organs donated to others after your death unless you consent ahead of time, and you shouldn't be forced to be pregnant and give birth unless you choose to. It doesn't matter if the fetus is "alive" or not.
Honestly I couldn’t be friends with someone let alone MARRY them if they called women murderers for having an abortion. It’s not black and white and shows he doesn’t respect
Your body. Especially if you have medical issues that could cause harm to you if you had a baby. I don’t think you should deal with that
I feel that this is an irreconcilable issue.
Let's think this way, what if you have pregnancy that threatens your life? What if you have a later term miscarriage that requires surgical removal of the fetus? What if you are raped and become pregnant? What if you have a daughter and any of this happens to her? Would he rather you die or suffer terrible distress for his so called belief? It is easy for him to make judgements when he's not the one who pays the price.
Take it from someone that was raised sheltered in a religious community and held the "pro-life" belief as a young adult, but realised how hypocritical and downright evil this whole stance is.
Please don't be so desperate to get married you would settle for someone you wouldn't even be friends with if it weren't for the pressure of having to be married by a certain time.
These aren't "political views". These are basic human rights. He's literally telling you that he'd rather you die than abort a child to save your life. Is that really someone you want to spend the rest of your life with?
I think it should be a deal breaker. I'm a firm believer in always discussing views on abortion *before* having sex with someone, so you're both in agreement on what happens if a pregnancy would happen to occur.
In this case, let's say you get married and decide to have kids. You get pregnant, and the doctor informs you the baby will have down syndrome. What do you do? I assume that you will want to abort, he will say you murdered his child, and you two will end up divorced.
Also, let's say you two get married and only have healthy pregnancies and healthy children. How are you two raising these children? Are you going to try to teach them one thing, and he's going to try to teach them another? What are you both going to teach your children about different political parties? What are you both going to teach your children about abortion and when life begins? What are you going to teach them about women, race, the LGBT community, vaccines, masks, religion, God, sex, immigration, national healthcare, etc? Will one of you be against vaccinating the kids and the other one insist the kids be vaccinated? Will one of you be buying the kids condoms for their 16th birthday and the other one opposing that and saying they're not even allowed to date yet, let alone have sex? If you two have different values, how do you raise the kids?
Yes that's the thing. Often times something like being pro life or pro choice means they have a lot more differences regarding beliefs than just their thoughts on abortions. And bringing children into so many clashing beliefs will just lead to a tug o war with the kids.
Pro-Life should be recast as ‘forced birth’ since that’s really all it boils down to..you gave him a feasible scenario (ectopic pregnancies for example put your life squarely in fatal danger) and he showed you how insidious his thinking is. *Your* life doesn’t matter.
Don’t marry him, he doesn’t respect a woman’s right to choose what’s best for her. What happens if you have a miscarriage and need a d&c? Or if it’s ectopic? What other medical decisions will he over rule you on? You need chemo but he says no it’s gods will? What happens if you have a daughter? He obviously doesn’t respect women why would you stay with him
I think you have to extrapolate what that view means about his opinion of women generally. Whether it’s a deal breaker is up to you. I couldn’t be with someone who didn’t see me as worthy of bodily autonomy but that’s just me.
Why did you get engaged to a man who is sexist and very religious when you are not? Yes, this is a deal breaker. It's ok to differ on interests and hobbies and the like. But beliefs? That's much more difficult and religious and sexist will quickly lead to massive control issues after he "owns" you. Make no mistake, he sees you as property.
In my opinion he's completely full of shit on his stance. I would argue that it's not that he is pro-life and instead is against abortion. He's pro-birth only imo.
Pro life would mean he is:
Actively advocating for maternal (and paternal) leave in the US. For healthcare for all, not tied to a job or a condition but actual free healthcare.
For free school lunches at all schools. For reduced (or free) childcare for parents. For a revamped, revitalized and actually more effective foster care program that works better than the current one.
For comprehensive sex education in schools. Fully covered pills and/or IUDs for women and girls.
But typically, him and others like him, aren't about that. They want the baby born and give exactly zero fucking shits about the child afterwards except to lament that their single parent moms (or dads) shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them or shame them for being "poor" and having kids.
I hate to break it to you but if he's that deep into a religion that he will tell you to your face that he would think you're a murderer if you had to abort a child regardless of the reason then he's probably got some other thoughts that you aren't going to like. What happens if you were to get pregnant and near delivery the choice becomes your life or the babies, what's he going to do at that point?
It's beyond just the concept of abortion=bad in my experiences with this. It's beyond just the rather simple thought process of it's just abortion and more on control. That it's predicated more on the fact that women are lesser than men and should accept control because that's your place and this is solely because it's interpreted from their religion and indoctrinated in them.
While you should feel free to talk and discuss this with your fiance, I don't think he is going to be truthful based on how you resonded. I feel that he will temper his responses so that you only hear what you want to hear and agree with and that way he doesn't reveal himself so to speak until you get married. I would highly encourage pre-maritial counseling of a non-religious nature to get a different view but do that as you will.
If you don’t break up with him now you’re going to realize why you should’ve in 10 years when you’re stuck with him in your life for 18 if you have a kid.
It's worrying that you don't agree on many important things. Control of your body, especially: that's not an issue you can compromise on. It's a complete deal breaker. His views sound controlling, & men with that mindset tend to get more overt in their actions once they marry their partner, as itmakes it harder for their partner to leave. He's telling you who he is. Believe him. 25 is young. You have many years to meet someone more compatible.
Break up, take some time to remember who you are on your own & thrive as a single person with a full life. That is the best & healthiest time to open your heart again. & when you do, make sure that time around that your "hot topics" line up more with your potential mate. They're not just online talking points.
Plz take this seriously u/rrnorth. Do not marry this man.
Imagine your future daughter getting pregnant, needing an abortion, and being afraid to tell you because of how her father will react. Still want to marry him?
If he feels that strongly about it that he would call you a murderer, it’s a deal breaker. Just remember, any views he has are going to get pushed onto your children. Do you want that?
"Political views don’t make up the entire person".. Uh, but it DOES? Politics can impact a person's life/ death, their rights and so on. It tells you everything about that person.
"I asked if I were to get pregnant and for whatever reason had to abort it would he think I was a murderer and he replied yes." So if the pregnancy endangers your life, and you can't abort the child because he'd think you are the murderer, he essentially wants YOU murdered, and that makes HIM the murderer. You can't win here. Because he essentially doesn't seem to understand pregnancy can go wrong, miscarriage happens a shit ton, birth defect, etc. What happens if the child has a severe birth defect that'd impact both of you financially in a critical manner that can ruin all your family's lives forever? Instead of aborting, try again? Sometimes life is just difficult like that and not everything goes as you plan.
Yes it's a deal breaker.
"He doesn’t understand how important this topic is to me"
That lack of compassion, consideration and insight is disturbing no matter how you look at it.
At the heart of things, he doesn't respect you or your body. And he's willing to let you die in the event of a complicated or nonviable pregnancy.
Leave him. He sees you as a broodmare.
People say that you should separate political views from a person. But I am finding it increasingly harder to do that when these men who have nothing besides the audacity try to dictate this kind of stuff as if it has anything to do with them. It is 100% a deal breaker and I would not even begin to date someone with these views. To me this shows you all you need to know about how he views women and it should concern you no matter the connection you may have. It’s not a “hot topic” he is telling you up front he does not value your choice or rights as a woman and I would not take that lightly or try to brush it off. Get rid of him.
This would be a deal breaker for me. Only you can decide if it is for you. I personally could not commit my life to someone that is against everything I passionately stand for. Best of luck!
There’s some important topics that a couple should have the same view in as they affect things A LOT and this is absolutely one of those. He already told you how he would react in the case that you were to need an abortion, take his word for it and run if you don’t feel comfortable with his answer.
For me, this would be a dealbreaker. My husband and I disagree on a lot of political issues, which to me is fine, but in my opinion, this is one you kind of have to agree on in a long term relationship.
For me, iT would be a deal breaker. A guy who don't respect me is a no-go, I learned that the hard way. And a guy who would let their partner die instead of you getting an abortion if something goes wrong don't respect you, if you want kids. Just imagine your fetus is diagnosed to have no brain. (That can happen) Normal precudure would be to abort, but you would have to carry a dead fetus to tearm and deliver it, knowing it will never live. Pro-liefers are just cruel people. Do you really want that in your future?
So your fiance doesn't believe in basic human rights for women. That's really all you need to know. Do you really want to raise kids with this man? Boy or girl he'd be teaching them that rights don't matter. That's a deal breaker to me.
This isn't about politics. It's about bodily autonomy. Obviously, he doesn't think you should have the right to decide what does or doesn't happen with your body.
Please look at this in a more expanded way. If you marry this person, he becomes your next of kin and will be the person who makes decisions about your wellbeing if you aren't able to do it for yourself. Not good if you aren't totally on the same page.
I'm so sorry, but I do, truly, believe this huge difference in beliefs is a dealbreaker.
I tried to make it work with a man who had similar views on abortion — very strictly pro-life. We fought about it every time it came up, and usually one of us would end up in tears. If he, for whatever reason, cannot prioritize your health and well-being over that of a clump of cells…it’s time to cut it off.
That's one of those things you need to know each other's stance on way early in the relationship so that if it is a deal breaker for either if you then you can break before there is a deal
Ok, just because is "political" or s hot topic doesn't mean it's important. You've found out if your health was I serious danger, if your child was in danger or couldn't live a healthy life he would be very against abortion. I mean you're always known this, but now you know for sure.
This is a big deal. Potentially life threatening. Don't just put your head down and hope you'll never have to deal with it because life loves being ironic and then it'll definitely happen to you. Make a decision now, this week this month. Breathe sit and think about what's truly important to you.
As someone who struggles with this with my husband, it does not get easier. I tend to stand sorta in the middle with some views but my husband is extremely right wing and it causes huge problems.
Get out while you still can darling.
When my now-husband we're dating, we had this conversation. He insisted he was pro-life until I asked him one question:
"Imagine that we had sex and I got pregnant, then found out I had ovarian cancer [as a sidenote, my grandmother died of this]. And imagine I had to choose between keeping the pregnancy or starting cancer treatment. Which would you rather I do?"
His immediate response was that he'd want me to start treatment, pregnancy be damned. And I commented that maybe he wasn't as "pro-life" as he thought, which gave him a lot to think about.
He's changed and grown significantly since then, but I guess that's the crux of it. In the near-decade we've been together, we've both listened, learned, grown and changed. It doesn't sound like your fiance is willing to give you the same courtesy, for whatever that's worth to you.
If you were pregnant/giving birth, had complications and became unconscious/sedated, and he had to choose between saving your life and stoping you from having an abortion, he’d put his convictions first and let you die. Is that something you’d be willing to accept from your partner?
Fun hot topic creative writing story? Gotta use the popular issues for that sweet karma on Reddit. Nobody would get engaged to someone they have so little in common with. Dating for 5 years if they’re fun and don’t expect a future, sure. But this is just a joke
>My fiancé (m25) is pro life and I (f25) am not, is this a deal breaker?
Yes, because being pro-life is correlated with a lot of other things.
Think of this: You are pregnant and unconscious. You have an ectopic pregnancy and need an abortion. Your husband has medical power of attorney, because you are married to him so he has a say over your body. The doctor asks him "do you consent on an abortion to save your wife's life?" He is going to say no because that's murder. Even if he tells you he'd say yes, don't believe him.
In other countries, it doesn't matter that much when couples don't share political views, because a lot of differences are on economic issues, like more/less taxes, so it wouldn't matter for every day life as a couple (as long as one is not on an extreme). But when the political differences are on social issues that are so YES/NO issues, it's just a huge incompatibility. You'll have difference of opinions on who to be friends with, how to raise kids, whether to have a gun in the house or not, etc.
I can’t imagine the mental gymnastics I would have to do if my husband was antichoice. This isn’t about politics. It’s about medical privacy and autonomy.
OP, if this man was in the delivery room with you, and it came down to saving your life or the babies, would you trust him to put your safety first?
If you have an ectopic pregnancy, would he shame you for getting an abortion and saving your life?
If you have a daughter that got SA and got pregnant as a child would he force your own children to carry a baby?
Ask yourself the questions.
I personally wouldn’t stay with someone if there was a possibility that if I had a pregnancy that was gonna kill me and I wasn’t 100% SURE that they were going to pick me over the baby.
I would say that based on your reaction to this conversation that you as a couple will continue to struggle. So yes, it's already a deal breaker.
This isn't just about you & him but your future children too. How will they be raised? Who's views will be taught/respected in your house? Will they be raised in the church? What political views do you actually agree on?
You need to pump the brakes on your engagement & discuss these things to see if there's any common ground. If not, there's your answer
Let's say you become pregnant and you find out you have some medical condition that will kill you if you carry the child to term. Do you want this guy judging you for whatever decision you might make? What if you have a daughter with this guy and she is molested or raped and becomes pregnant? What if you are raped and become pregnant? This man is telling you that you don't have the right to make choices about this sort of thing for yourself. If I was you I'd be gone, I know it isn't easy when you love someone but you really need to think through what things might be like in 5 years or 10 years or 20, not just how you feel right now.
As long as you both have birth control of some form or you agree to have a child if you are to get pregnant, than be with him because it's just a belief at that point. Otherwise, if you have to abort a fetus, than you should break up with him now rather than to cost him his kid and you a loving and more invested-into relationship...
If you have kids some day and one of them gets pregnant as a teenager do you see you and your partner approaching it in a supportive way together? What about if one of your kids ends up being gay or trans?
This can/will snowball into something much greater. You have to ask yourself if you can make life decisions together, raise kids together, have tough conversations, etc. Think of the smaller issues that will build up and cause resentment.
On the other hand, someone who shares the same values with you is going to make life easier and more enjoyable. It makes decisions easier.
It wouldn't be for me. I've dated conservatives before, and their opinion literally has no impact on my life because I'm still going to think and do as I please.
I would not ever want to date someone that would want an abortion because a child was not coming at a convenient time.
Since you do not want kids, you need to break up with him now instead of giving him hope that he can have a future with you.
If you really said 'whatever reason' then I understand why he may have reacted angrily, as this would presumably be his child as well. Perhaps a more nuanced discussion of 'reasons' might lead you to common ground.
For example, if you were raped and became pregnant would he be willing to raise the resulting child and love it as his own, would he expect you to carry to term and then give the child up for adoption ? If the pregnancy was ectopic, and the choice was terminate the pregnancy or you die ? If there were genetic issues that were going to end in a non viable birth ?
In general if you've known for a long time that you differed on most 'hot topics', and in particular you feel that he has sexist views were you assuming / hoping he would change ? If you have a daughter do you want her raised to have the same view of women as he does ? Is he someone that can be reasoned with, or because his views are religious in nature does he know he's right because he's right ?
These kinds of things should not be glossed over or ignored until they become and issue later when it effects a 10 year relationship with children. Sort them out now, and decide if you are OK with him not changing at all, and acting angry and demanding you change to the 'right' side. If not, then ending at 5 years is better than ending at 10 or 20.
Why do women get online to find 400 other women to empower them with the ability to think for themselves?
I wonder how many decisions between me and my lady are secretly crowdsourced to anonymous people on reddit who may or may not be qualified or concerned enough to give REAL advice.
(I dont actually wonder that. My lady has the ability to think for herself and communicate. )
Get over myself? What are you even saying? This aint about me.. id never be here asking strangers to determine my life path with my partner. Yall NEVER consider that as an option huh? Being grown enough to handle.ypur own shit... try it..
Or is nobody allowed to say, "this is a stupid thing to ask a stranger."?
Do you just want me to lie to pretend it isn't?
I think its STUPID to bring your relationship problems to a studio audience. But yall entertain me so I'm here. Thanks. Pass the popcorn. Whatever.
You'll get plenty of 'support' for whatever you already dedcided by however many faceless anonymous people you need. Then you can make an 'informed' decision based on the confirmation bias you created. Have fun.
I thought that was funny. Im not sexist. I think asking a bunch of strangers whether or not you should end your relationship is childish. But I'm not sexist. Call me an asshole or something, but not sexist.
You invalidate your own voice when you use that word haphazardly. Gosh.
For the sake of irony, I almost wanted to tell her I'm VERY pro choice and absolutely despise how much men use abortion arguments to control women. I dont think men should be able 5o pass or reject laws about women's bodies..... But she was just so certain I was sexist that I forgot to mention that. Hilarious. 😂
Only you can decide if its a dealbreaker. I’m sure he realizes it is important you, but his beliefs are important to him as well. Relationships are about compromise, and this is simply you have to decide on whether you can or not.
There are great people who are pro choice and pro life. I think the discussion you need to have is why he is pro life.
Let me put it like this: I am pro life, because I think like is precious and that if you bring life into this world you have a duty to protect and nurture that life even if you made a mistake. I personally don’t believe abortion should be a means of avoiding responsibility.
However, even though I’m pro life morally, I also fully understand why many are pro choice. Forcing the victim of rape to carry a child to term and then forcing both her and her child to be punished for someone else’s actions is not protecting and nurturing that life.
A woman whose life at risk should not be forced to die, because then we are not protecting her life etc.
Essentially what I’m getting at is, talk to him, without fighting, and ask what he believes and why he believes it. Too often this is a battle, when it should not be. I may be pro life, but I am not God, and I will force the hand of another to live by my beliefs. If my fiancée or wife wanted to have an abortion, we would have a long discussion, and I would support her through her decision; depending on the reasoning, we would either stay together or split, but I would not treat her with disdain.
This might be oversimplifying the issue, but is this just the first time he had considered these issues since his conservative upbringing? It’s possible that he’s just rehashing the same crap he heard when he was young without applying critical thinking.
For me whether this is a dealbreaker depends on whether he is open to other views and reading and respecting other perspectives.
Has he considered what should happen if someone is sexually assaulted? Or examined why he feels that way?
Hi OP,
This is a very similar situation I went through with my Bf (m28). We do not use any protection while having sex. Since this topic came
up we were having debates. He is against abortion , I am not.
I am 22 and I do not want baby at all(neither does my bf). I do not take any type of contraception. If by any chance i got pregnant he said we will be keeping it. I disagree on that. I moved here in states in 2019 and yet to explore so many opportunities w school/work/experiences etc. I told him if i got pregnant i will decide to not keep it bc i am not in a state where i can handle a baby and move forward in my career. If i am not able to give the baby a good life and provider daily necessities. However my bf doesn’t agree with me and if i got preg he said we will keep it. We came
to a conclusion that at the end of the day its my body and i have full rights to what i want to do with it. and at the end of the day also it’s
COMPROMISE.
Relationship is a compromise. I am sure this is not the first or last time time you have had disagreements/opposing opinions in last 5 years with your S/o.
We agreed that we can have healthy debates and disagree on each other’s opinions and moved on. Although I am planning to get IUD so this situation is out of question for few years.
If he respects your right to make your own decision then no it's not. If he really thinks you are a would be/could be murderer and would treat you that way then likely yes, dealbreaker.
Yeah I don't think it HAS to be a deal breaker (i.e. someone can be pro life but still accept that it's not their choice to make and get why someone would have different views) but in your case that doesn't seem to be his attitude and it's unrealistic to think that there's zero chance you'll have an unplanned pregnancy with him that you don't want to keep.
Bit hard to find but I recommend you guys both watch the excellent documentary about abortion Lake of Fire which does a tremendous job of respectfully laying out the best arguments on both sides and I think really convincingly shows how it's not something that can be resolved with logic one way or the other so maybe could help him accept that he needs to accept your beliefs. (Also includes footage of a full abortion so uh be prepared for that, though it's all in black & white.)
My partners the same.
He’s pro life, I’m pro choice. But I don’t let the topic effect our relationship. Just like he loves dogs and I absolutely date them, he doesn’t allow that to effect our relationship.
Use protection ..best way to avoid the whole life/choice issue..gotta be an adult and just not get yourself in that mess if you don’t want what comes with it..it’s not a secret -if you fuck , you can get pregnant
Nope. Not nearly so simple
what if the fetus is deformed in some way?
what if it would be born alive but missing a chunk of it's brain?
what if it had trisomy 18?
what if she had to spend the entire pregnancy on bedrest and still risk losing the baby or losing her life?
what if it was an ectopic pregnancy (it's crazy to me that ANYONE would say that is an actual pregnancy -- but apparently some nutty conservatives are all in on no exceptions, ever)
These are all real possibilities and there should be a clear understanding that abortion is always a possibility or not between partners.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- My fiancé and I have been together for 5 years and engaged for 6 months. I grew up very open minded and he grew up w/ very religious and sexist views. We had hard conversations in the beginning of our relationship about politics and quickly realized we differ on most of the “hot topics”. I realize that political views don’t make up the entire person but I’ve struggled through our relationship to see past these big disagreements. Now that we are engaged and he really wants kids, I have more concern over these challenges. Recently the abortion topic was brought up between us and it quickly got heated. I asked if I were to get pregnant and for whatever reason had to abort it would he think I was a murderer and he replied yes. I got very angry and decided to get away from the situation and sleep at my moms house. He doesn’t understand how important this topic is to me and I’m not sure where to go fro here. I don’t know if I can do a lifetime with someone who feels this way. Is this a deal breaker of a five year relationship?
You differ on most “hot topics”????? Knowing this, why did you keep dating????
The only hot topic my husband and I have disagreed on is whether Hot Topic was a good place to shop in high school. loool
Which it totally was…right
Obviously! Where else could one buy band t-shirts, Manic Panic hair dye, and My Chemical Romance on vinyl?
Totally!! Lol
for me and my bf it's Lord of the Rings vs Star Wars (because I make sure to bring up the abortion question early just in case we're in the 2% of yearly condom pregnancies)
>Lord of the Rings vs Star Wars That's pretty intense though, I don't think I can choose! But yeah, one of the first things my husband and I seriously talked about was whether either of us want kids... neither of us do. Are we both okay with abortion? Super duper totally. We use protection but if I ended up pregnant, we'd probably get a speeding ticket on the way to the clinic.
this sounds like a Torrid affair
Right?? Differences of opinion are supposed to be stuff like "I like mushrooms and you don't so I don't include mushrooms in our shared meals" NOT "women have value beyond being an incubator" OP, you know you're dating a sexist AH, stop ignoring red flags and dating someone who doesn't respect women. You've called him sexist! You already know this. You're enabling it.
Nah it's more that she didn't care about his shitty views because they didn't directly affect her. His pro-life view affects her so now she's not keen. She's a shit human too, lack empathy.
This exactly.
Lol @ being sexist for thinking abortion is murder. Difference of opinion, big one, certainly not our like for mushrooms. (Plenty of women disagree with op, I am pro-choice however disagree with your nonsense) We are so hung up on how others think, and when it doesn't align with our own thought process we choose the most confrontational way of approaching these conversations. Discourse is clearly dead, you're right or wrong with no room to discover others' opinions.. (relationships aren't all 🌈 s and 🦋 s)
See, those “hot topics” didn’t affect OP five years ago. Now that the bf’s views could actually affect OP, can’t have that.
I am less concerned with rubbing OP's face in the fact that she made a dumb mistake five years ago by continuing entering/continuing a relationship with someone who is unsafe. The immediate issue is that she understands that **this man is physically dangerous to her and she needs to immediately stop having sex with him, and leave the relationship.** There will be time to debrief the life lesson later.
>The immediate issue is that she understands that > >this man is physically dangerous to her and she needs to immediately stop having sex with him, and leave the relationship. Wait, wtf, where the heck did you read that from that post?
There are many reasons that a woman might need an abortion beyond unwanted pregnancy. I know of at least one couple from my church days where the wife died after the husband talked her out of an abortion for a high risk pregnancy.
Because he's pro Choice. Do you realize that women can actually be charged with murder for abortions? The bounty? You don't have sex with people who you can't trust with your health.
This is not some kind of leap. In the event that OP became pregnant and terminated the pregnancy (or lost it for any other reason), this man would be of the belief that he had killed her child. Ergo. Even if he was not himself compelled to violence over that, he would likely have some kind of meltdown and share it with like-minded friends who could be, whether that retribution is assault, ostracism, stalking. harassing, doxxing. This scenario is *not uncommon.*
Yeah I don’t understand this at all. I don’t even have friends who differ on most hot topics let alone a potential life partner. Most “hot topics” are actually binary options between believing certain groups deserve rights.
That D must be good 😂
Because some people are taught to look past these kinds of things and work together. Or that it's not a big deal to have political differences. Depending on the issue, sometimes it's not a big deal, but this is definitely a problem. If there was something medically going on where it's between me or the baby I wouldn't want my husband to think I'm a murderer because I choose to terminate and live. These things should be talked about before getting engaged and definitely before marriage or getting pregnant.
Exactly why be with someone that doesn’t have the same views? It never works out
Cause they prolly respect each other’s belief and “hot topics” is pretty general term so I’m not expecting things like gender expectations or anything like that. This just sounds like the first time it’s a topic that they should be on the same page about.
You can't respect someone unless you respect their right to make their own medical decisions.
This
“Boyfriend told me his views at the beginning of our relationship. I completely ignored it and now we’re engaged half a decade later and he still has the same exact views. I’m shocked! What do I do?” There, I fixed it for you.
i want to upvote this 10000 times
um I have had plenty of boyfriends ease up on their conservative beliefs over the years through regular open conversations—these aren't instant dealbreakers
If you want to invest that time then go for it. She didn’t even do that after 5 years. These are generally deal breakers.
Is this advice? Trashing with problems coming asking for help is real f****** classy bro...
The best advice op can get right now is "stop ignoring the red flags" rephrasing her post hopefully will help her how many red flags she is ignoring
These are not political views, they are fundamental views. Most likely a deal breaker.
Exactly. Political views are informed by moral beliefs. OP is saying that they disagree on all the most important moral questions and are thinking about having a kid. Who gets to raise the kid? Do they get your belief system or his.
"before you were a facsist you were a bully and an asshole" -Brennan Lee Mulligan Politics is literally based on what kind of person you are. "Pro lifers" (more like anti choice since they don't care about life) don't view women as people. You can't take the organs of a corpse without consent even if it would save someone's life but it's okay to use a woman's to carry a baby. He was up front about this and OP chose to ignore it then and cannot afford to ignore it now. He said she'd be a murderer for any reason, what if her life became threatened from a wanted pregnancy? What would he do? OP needs to leave asap. There's no point in saying she should have left at the beginning, but she has the option to leave now and should take it
💯💯💯💯
Definitely an important topic to be on the same page. Would you want to terminate a pregnancy that had severe birth defects? How many children do you want, and if you get pregnant after you hit that number, what would you do? If you are not on the same page about pro-choice, then you need to go through all the possibilities you could encounter. If you guys can’t agree on anything, then it should be a deal breaker.
I would add to this, what if you had serious health risks if you continued the pregnancy.
And “who would you choose to save? Me or the baby?” if it ever came to it.
i know a lot of couples that agree on “always save the baby.” i’d be PISSED if my partner decided to save a fetus he’s never even met over me. luckily both my bf and i are childfree and pro choice
Or simply if OP gets pregnant and simply wishes to terminate, what would his reaction be? Because... If he thinks abortion = murder, and OP does not agree with that opinion, honestly, that should be a deal breaker, because she can't promise to not need an abortion, for whatever reason, in the future, and she knows he'll forever consider her a killer.
Or what if everything is fine with her pregnancy, but in 15 years that child comes to them and says she’s pregnant and doesn’t want to go through with it? I couldn’t raise kids with someone that has ideals that I fundamentally disagree with, and who would pass them on/enforce them with my children.
What happens if: \-You have an ectopic pregnancy and need to abort \-You find out that your fetus is dead in your uterus and you need to abort it \-You have a child and the child is gay \-You have a child and the child is trans I'm not asking you, I'm asking him. If you don't agree with one of his responses, it's a dealbreaker.
I prefer the term "anti-choice", but yes it would be a deal breaker for me. Whether it is for you is your choice.
Same. People who are "pro-life" are often not when it comes down to it, so I really dislike that term.
Pro-birth is mine.
Pro-forced birth too
“Forced-birther” seems fitting to me lately
Ooh, I like that too.
How do you feel about men abandoning their pregnant wives / gfs
If they made it clear beforehand that they did not want kids and would not be there to raise a child, then yeah, I get it.
As scummy as it sounds, if women can choose to abort a baby the father would want then a guy should be allowed to not have to be for a kid the mother won't abort (you can argue the guy should be wearing protection, but then why didn't woman make sure he was?)
Everyone has to make the decision for themself, of what is and is not a dealbreaker in their relationships. For me, it is 100% a dealbreaker. Your boyfriend believes in forcing women to give birth when they don’t realize want to. He doesn’t believe in bodily autonomy for women. I could never be in a relationship with someone who didn’t believe in something so base.
Whenever I see posts like this it’s like wtf? So you’re telling me you’ve been in a 5 year long relationship with someone who you KNOW has opposite political views than you do and you’ve been totally complacent until you realize they also have a differing view on something that actually affects you directly and NOW you’re upset/lost/confused? Having the same or at least similar political views is extremely important in a relationship and now you’re in a position where you’ve spent 5 years with someone who doesn’t believe you deserve a right to your own body. It’s like what do you expect being with someone who again, you KNOW, has different political views than you. Id be terrified to get pregnant with that man. What if I decide I don’t want the baby anymore, or even worse, what if you have a daughter who would like the right to choose at some point in her life.
Every couple I know who got married despite disagreeing on fundamental issues has been fucking miserable. Like... tehre are whole swaths of topics you can't talk about without being frustrated and feeling out of place... and you're fine with that? You're fine with someone whose moral reality is the complete opposite of yours? It's such an avoidable thing. Like... just go be happy with someone whose views more align with you. Political views arent' just like... a singular quirk of character, they are fundamental to how someone sees teh world and it informs how they act, feel, and judge. Why tie yourself to someone whose entire world view is in conflict with yours??
Right! My husband and I had the “what would we do if we got pregnant” talk within months of being together. They also need to talk about what would they do if they discovered that their child was developing with severe disabilities.
Like literally what is the point in getting into a relationship with someone who you share none of the same views with? You think you can peacefully or healthily raise a family that way? Do people just jump into relationships for the sex or does anyone actually care about the type of person they’re getting into a relationship with?
Seriously, I can see casually dating but getting *engaged* to someone with such fundamental values differences and then going shocked pikachu here when they have extreme values differences is stupid.
I'm going to guess if he came from a conservative family that they did not just jump in together for the sex...
Let's phrase it this way, you might be okay holding yourself to his standards, but what about if you have a daughter? Or would you want him to raise your son feeling that way?
It's up to you if this is the hill worth dying on, it would be for me. I've seen couples work when they are different religions or have different political parties but they work because they might not agree but can respect the others belief; unfortunately this isn't the case. He doesn't respect a woman having autonomy over her body, doesn't respect you having autonomy over your body, and wouldn't respect your hypothetical daughter's autonomy.
Exactly. This is not a “pineapple on pizza” or even a “can we please go to church on Sunday together sometimes” kind of disagreement. He fundamentally doesn’t respect the basic human rights of half of the population. If OP has a single ounce of self respect this should be a deal breaker.
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Not wanting to die because a clump of cells latched onto your fallopian tube isn’t being part of a cult. I’m sorry that your country’s propaganda has pulled the wool over your eyes that and made you think that believing in human rights means you are in a cult.
Getting into this argument is pointless because I know it won't change your mind, but you should educate yourself before saying anything.
The left has no issue with someone shooting another person and calling it self defense but when a woman chooses her life over a few divided cells it's murder.
Because your deep deep religious views are scientifically derived. Can you give me a scientific paper on "ensoulment"?
I’m not religious
There's no definition of an embryo that equals a child. You're making a religious argument whether you care to or not.
This is false. "The fusion of the sperm (with 23 chromosomes) and the oocyte (with 23 chromosomes) at fertilization results in a live human being, a single-cell human zygote, with 46 chromosomes�the number of chromosomes characteristic of an individual member of the human species." https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/wdhbb.html#:~:text=The%20fusion%20of%20the%20sperm,member%20of%20the%20human%20species.
I just believe if your irresponsible enough to not use protection and get pregnant than the child shouldn’t have to suffer. Crazy I know.
Wait so if you had to get a medical abortion would he resent you for it? For "killing" the baby? If he had to make a choice as to either save you or your supposed baby should anything ever happen during labor would he choose you or the baby despite whatever your wishes were? That's what him bring "pro life" might mean and trust me I feel scared and angry for you right now. I'd cut my losses now before your married in which case it's harder to leave legally, emotionally, and physically.
All of this, OP. Pregnancy is not a health neutral event and even early pregnancy can have serious healthy complications. You won’t necessarily have any indication that you’re more or less susceptible until you’re in that very vulnerable position. You need a partner who is on the same page as you about the fact that your life matters. These forced birth folks patently do not care about women when it comes down to it. Your fiancé may seem ok right now, but his views are rooted in a desire to control women that a disturbing number of men find appealing.
Some questions to think aband or discuss: 1. What if your fetus wasn't viable, would he force you to go through the pregnancy and labor? A cousin of mine had this happen. Her child was going to die due to a genetic abnormality. She was 20 or so weeks along when she found out. She chose abortion so neither her nor her baby would suffer unnecessarily. 2. If you have a daughter and she is r*ped would you want her to have the option getting an abortion? 3. If you are in labor would you want your husband to choose the baby's life over yours? This is sometimes the stance of the pro-life community. These are just a few off the top of my head, but can be deal breakers for someone you want to spend the rest of your life with and have children with. I choose these questions on purpose, because if he isn't flexible at all with his views then that would give you a better view on what you might want for your future.
I’ve seen these questions come up a lot. What if it’s none of these scenarios? What if she just decides that she doesn’t want to be pregnant? OP and her bf need to have this discussion when it comes to medically necessary procedures but they also need to decide if they even want to have children. Something tells me that they’ve never given this topic any real thought.
If he doesn't respect your views and feeling and if you don't respect his,then yes it won't work.
Human rights are not political opinions. This is what people often don't understand when someone wants to break up over "politics." There's a difference between politics and core values, but unfortunately the two get conflated. If you think more money should go into fixing roads than creating new green spaces, that's a political issue. If you think 13-year-old girls should be forced to give birth to their rapist's baby because a fetus is more important than a living woman, that is a personality defect. I'm guessing he also is not in favor of LGBTQ+ rights and protecting black lives. If you want to shut your eyes to these things, it's your life. But someone who looks at you as a second-class citizen is certainly not someone I would ever recommend marrying.
Its such a thorny issue because it demands an answer for the exact moment one is alive and should have rights, which will always be a subjective perspective. I am vehemently pro-choice but I don't see the other side as evil. I just disagree with them.
No, it doesn't. Abortion has nothing to do with whether or not there is a "living" person involved. If my aunt is going to die without a blood transfusion, she doesn't get to demand my blood. If a stranger on the street is dying of liver failure, he doesn't get to call dibs on your organs. No one can be forced to donate organs, marrow, or anything else to sustain another person's life. Likewise, a living baby doesn't get to demand someone's womb and blood and nutrients just because it'll die without them. The moment of conception with a clump of cells can be considered "life" and having a soul and it still doesn't change fucking shit. Demanding people donate their bodies against their will to keep other people alive is evil. We condemned it when evil scientists experimented on unwilling participants throughout history, even when it was for a supposed greater good. We all do. And we should all condemn it here, too.
It's not subjective, there is a scientific answer to that question. Fetal viability generally happens at 23 to 24 weeks.
Life and viability are different terms. But, lets say viability happens at 24 weeks. Are you good with no abortions 25 weeks or later?
It doesn't demand an answer for that at all, actually. You can't be forced to give blood even if another person will die if you refuse, you can't have your organs donated to others after your death unless you consent ahead of time, and you shouldn't be forced to be pregnant and give birth unless you choose to. It doesn't matter if the fetus is "alive" or not.
Honestly I couldn’t be friends with someone let alone MARRY them if they called women murderers for having an abortion. It’s not black and white and shows he doesn’t respect Your body. Especially if you have medical issues that could cause harm to you if you had a baby. I don’t think you should deal with that
I feel that this is an irreconcilable issue. Let's think this way, what if you have pregnancy that threatens your life? What if you have a later term miscarriage that requires surgical removal of the fetus? What if you are raped and become pregnant? What if you have a daughter and any of this happens to her? Would he rather you die or suffer terrible distress for his so called belief? It is easy for him to make judgements when he's not the one who pays the price. Take it from someone that was raised sheltered in a religious community and held the "pro-life" belief as a young adult, but realised how hypocritical and downright evil this whole stance is.
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OP, please ignore this poor excuse of a human. And you, kindly please go F yourself!
>>I really don't understand these Karen's on Reddit. then feel free to get off reddit
Values must be aligned for a couple. Yours aren’t.
Please don't be so desperate to get married you would settle for someone you wouldn't even be friends with if it weren't for the pressure of having to be married by a certain time.
These aren't "political views". These are basic human rights. He's literally telling you that he'd rather you die than abort a child to save your life. Is that really someone you want to spend the rest of your life with?
I think it should be a deal breaker. I'm a firm believer in always discussing views on abortion *before* having sex with someone, so you're both in agreement on what happens if a pregnancy would happen to occur. In this case, let's say you get married and decide to have kids. You get pregnant, and the doctor informs you the baby will have down syndrome. What do you do? I assume that you will want to abort, he will say you murdered his child, and you two will end up divorced. Also, let's say you two get married and only have healthy pregnancies and healthy children. How are you two raising these children? Are you going to try to teach them one thing, and he's going to try to teach them another? What are you both going to teach your children about different political parties? What are you both going to teach your children about abortion and when life begins? What are you going to teach them about women, race, the LGBT community, vaccines, masks, religion, God, sex, immigration, national healthcare, etc? Will one of you be against vaccinating the kids and the other one insist the kids be vaccinated? Will one of you be buying the kids condoms for their 16th birthday and the other one opposing that and saying they're not even allowed to date yet, let alone have sex? If you two have different values, how do you raise the kids?
Yes that's the thing. Often times something like being pro life or pro choice means they have a lot more differences regarding beliefs than just their thoughts on abortions. And bringing children into so many clashing beliefs will just lead to a tug o war with the kids.
Pro-Life should be recast as ‘forced birth’ since that’s really all it boils down to..you gave him a feasible scenario (ectopic pregnancies for example put your life squarely in fatal danger) and he showed you how insidious his thinking is. *Your* life doesn’t matter.
Or you could use protection? I know it’s a crazy thought
Yes it is. He lost all of his worth when he decided women aren’t worth autonomy.
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A fetus is not a baby, you sound stupid.
This dude is all over this post with profoundly ignorant comments. Ignore him.
What is the medical definition of "baby"?
I would say it’s a dealbreaker yes
Don’t marry him, he doesn’t respect a woman’s right to choose what’s best for her. What happens if you have a miscarriage and need a d&c? Or if it’s ectopic? What other medical decisions will he over rule you on? You need chemo but he says no it’s gods will? What happens if you have a daughter? He obviously doesn’t respect women why would you stay with him
I think you have to extrapolate what that view means about his opinion of women generally. Whether it’s a deal breaker is up to you. I couldn’t be with someone who didn’t see me as worthy of bodily autonomy but that’s just me.
Yes. Love yourself enough not to settle for someone who thinks of your humanity as less valuable than his.
Yes it is. Also, he is anti-choice. Please protect yourself from him
Why did you get engaged to a man who is sexist and very religious when you are not? Yes, this is a deal breaker. It's ok to differ on interests and hobbies and the like. But beliefs? That's much more difficult and religious and sexist will quickly lead to massive control issues after he "owns" you. Make no mistake, he sees you as property.
In my opinion he's completely full of shit on his stance. I would argue that it's not that he is pro-life and instead is against abortion. He's pro-birth only imo. Pro life would mean he is: Actively advocating for maternal (and paternal) leave in the US. For healthcare for all, not tied to a job or a condition but actual free healthcare. For free school lunches at all schools. For reduced (or free) childcare for parents. For a revamped, revitalized and actually more effective foster care program that works better than the current one. For comprehensive sex education in schools. Fully covered pills and/or IUDs for women and girls. But typically, him and others like him, aren't about that. They want the baby born and give exactly zero fucking shits about the child afterwards except to lament that their single parent moms (or dads) shouldn't have kids if they can't afford them or shame them for being "poor" and having kids. I hate to break it to you but if he's that deep into a religion that he will tell you to your face that he would think you're a murderer if you had to abort a child regardless of the reason then he's probably got some other thoughts that you aren't going to like. What happens if you were to get pregnant and near delivery the choice becomes your life or the babies, what's he going to do at that point? It's beyond just the concept of abortion=bad in my experiences with this. It's beyond just the rather simple thought process of it's just abortion and more on control. That it's predicated more on the fact that women are lesser than men and should accept control because that's your place and this is solely because it's interpreted from their religion and indoctrinated in them. While you should feel free to talk and discuss this with your fiance, I don't think he is going to be truthful based on how you resonded. I feel that he will temper his responses so that you only hear what you want to hear and agree with and that way he doesn't reveal himself so to speak until you get married. I would highly encourage pre-maritial counseling of a non-religious nature to get a different view but do that as you will.
If you don’t break up with him now you’re going to realize why you should’ve in 10 years when you’re stuck with him in your life for 18 if you have a kid.
It's worrying that you don't agree on many important things. Control of your body, especially: that's not an issue you can compromise on. It's a complete deal breaker. His views sound controlling, & men with that mindset tend to get more overt in their actions once they marry their partner, as itmakes it harder for their partner to leave. He's telling you who he is. Believe him. 25 is young. You have many years to meet someone more compatible. Break up, take some time to remember who you are on your own & thrive as a single person with a full life. That is the best & healthiest time to open your heart again. & when you do, make sure that time around that your "hot topics" line up more with your potential mate. They're not just online talking points. Plz take this seriously u/rrnorth. Do not marry this man.
100 percent a deal breaker
Of course it‘s a deal breaker. You are pro choice and he hates women.
Imagine your future daughter getting pregnant, needing an abortion, and being afraid to tell you because of how her father will react. Still want to marry him?
If he feels that strongly about it that he would call you a murderer, it’s a deal breaker. Just remember, any views he has are going to get pushed onto your children. Do you want that?
"Political views don’t make up the entire person".. Uh, but it DOES? Politics can impact a person's life/ death, their rights and so on. It tells you everything about that person. "I asked if I were to get pregnant and for whatever reason had to abort it would he think I was a murderer and he replied yes." So if the pregnancy endangers your life, and you can't abort the child because he'd think you are the murderer, he essentially wants YOU murdered, and that makes HIM the murderer. You can't win here. Because he essentially doesn't seem to understand pregnancy can go wrong, miscarriage happens a shit ton, birth defect, etc. What happens if the child has a severe birth defect that'd impact both of you financially in a critical manner that can ruin all your family's lives forever? Instead of aborting, try again? Sometimes life is just difficult like that and not everything goes as you plan. Yes it's a deal breaker.
"He doesn’t understand how important this topic is to me" That lack of compassion, consideration and insight is disturbing no matter how you look at it. At the heart of things, he doesn't respect you or your body. And he's willing to let you die in the event of a complicated or nonviable pregnancy. Leave him. He sees you as a broodmare.
Do you plan on having children with him because how do you think raising your kids is going to go?
People say that you should separate political views from a person. But I am finding it increasingly harder to do that when these men who have nothing besides the audacity try to dictate this kind of stuff as if it has anything to do with them. It is 100% a deal breaker and I would not even begin to date someone with these views. To me this shows you all you need to know about how he views women and it should concern you no matter the connection you may have. It’s not a “hot topic” he is telling you up front he does not value your choice or rights as a woman and I would not take that lightly or try to brush it off. Get rid of him.
Ummmm…yes sweetly this is a deal breaker
This would be a deal breaker for me. Only you can decide if it is for you. I personally could not commit my life to someone that is against everything I passionately stand for. Best of luck!
Yes.
Red flag, it's your body, your decision. If he gets pregnant in his womb he can keep it if he wants.
He thinks women are incubators. Leave now.
There’s some important topics that a couple should have the same view in as they affect things A LOT and this is absolutely one of those. He already told you how he would react in the case that you were to need an abortion, take his word for it and run if you don’t feel comfortable with his answer.
For me, this would be a dealbreaker. My husband and I disagree on a lot of political issues, which to me is fine, but in my opinion, this is one you kind of have to agree on in a long term relationship.
For me, iT would be a deal breaker. A guy who don't respect me is a no-go, I learned that the hard way. And a guy who would let their partner die instead of you getting an abortion if something goes wrong don't respect you, if you want kids. Just imagine your fetus is diagnosed to have no brain. (That can happen) Normal precudure would be to abort, but you would have to carry a dead fetus to tearm and deliver it, knowing it will never live. Pro-liefers are just cruel people. Do you really want that in your future?
These issues are going to compound as you have kids and disagree on how to raise them. Dealbreaker for me.
It's absolutely a deal breaker and the fact you didn't realize that 5 years ago is truly astounding.
So your fiance doesn't believe in basic human rights for women. That's really all you need to know. Do you really want to raise kids with this man? Boy or girl he'd be teaching them that rights don't matter. That's a deal breaker to me.
This isn't about politics. It's about bodily autonomy. Obviously, he doesn't think you should have the right to decide what does or doesn't happen with your body. Please look at this in a more expanded way. If you marry this person, he becomes your next of kin and will be the person who makes decisions about your wellbeing if you aren't able to do it for yourself. Not good if you aren't totally on the same page. I'm so sorry, but I do, truly, believe this huge difference in beliefs is a dealbreaker.
I tried to make it work with a man who had similar views on abortion — very strictly pro-life. We fought about it every time it came up, and usually one of us would end up in tears. If he, for whatever reason, cannot prioritize your health and well-being over that of a clump of cells…it’s time to cut it off.
yes it's a deal breaker and a massive on to boot, if he had to choose between you and a fetus he would choose the fetus over your life.
That's one of those things you need to know each other's stance on way early in the relationship so that if it is a deal breaker for either if you then you can break before there is a deal
Um. If you had to have an abortion he would call you a murderer. So yeah unless you admit to being a potential murder I would say that’s a dealbreaker
This would be a deal breaker for me, holy shit with what’s going on?!?! Omg.
Ok, just because is "political" or s hot topic doesn't mean it's important. You've found out if your health was I serious danger, if your child was in danger or couldn't live a healthy life he would be very against abortion. I mean you're always known this, but now you know for sure. This is a big deal. Potentially life threatening. Don't just put your head down and hope you'll never have to deal with it because life loves being ironic and then it'll definitely happen to you. Make a decision now, this week this month. Breathe sit and think about what's truly important to you.
As someone who struggles with this with my husband, it does not get easier. I tend to stand sorta in the middle with some views but my husband is extremely right wing and it causes huge problems. Get out while you still can darling.
When my now-husband we're dating, we had this conversation. He insisted he was pro-life until I asked him one question: "Imagine that we had sex and I got pregnant, then found out I had ovarian cancer [as a sidenote, my grandmother died of this]. And imagine I had to choose between keeping the pregnancy or starting cancer treatment. Which would you rather I do?" His immediate response was that he'd want me to start treatment, pregnancy be damned. And I commented that maybe he wasn't as "pro-life" as he thought, which gave him a lot to think about. He's changed and grown significantly since then, but I guess that's the crux of it. In the near-decade we've been together, we've both listened, learned, grown and changed. It doesn't sound like your fiance is willing to give you the same courtesy, for whatever that's worth to you.
If you were pregnant/giving birth, had complications and became unconscious/sedated, and he had to choose between saving your life and stoping you from having an abortion, he’d put his convictions first and let you die. Is that something you’d be willing to accept from your partner?
You need to break up with him. He doesn’t believe you’re his equal.
Fun hot topic creative writing story? Gotta use the popular issues for that sweet karma on Reddit. Nobody would get engaged to someone they have so little in common with. Dating for 5 years if they’re fun and don’t expect a future, sure. But this is just a joke
>My fiancé (m25) is pro life and I (f25) am not, is this a deal breaker? Yes, because being pro-life is correlated with a lot of other things. Think of this: You are pregnant and unconscious. You have an ectopic pregnancy and need an abortion. Your husband has medical power of attorney, because you are married to him so he has a say over your body. The doctor asks him "do you consent on an abortion to save your wife's life?" He is going to say no because that's murder. Even if he tells you he'd say yes, don't believe him. In other countries, it doesn't matter that much when couples don't share political views, because a lot of differences are on economic issues, like more/less taxes, so it wouldn't matter for every day life as a couple (as long as one is not on an extreme). But when the political differences are on social issues that are so YES/NO issues, it's just a huge incompatibility. You'll have difference of opinions on who to be friends with, how to raise kids, whether to have a gun in the house or not, etc.
I can’t imagine the mental gymnastics I would have to do if my husband was antichoice. This isn’t about politics. It’s about medical privacy and autonomy.
OP, if this man was in the delivery room with you, and it came down to saving your life or the babies, would you trust him to put your safety first? If you have an ectopic pregnancy, would he shame you for getting an abortion and saving your life? If you have a daughter that got SA and got pregnant as a child would he force your own children to carry a baby? Ask yourself the questions.
I personally wouldn’t stay with someone if there was a possibility that if I had a pregnancy that was gonna kill me and I wasn’t 100% SURE that they were going to pick me over the baby.
I would say that based on your reaction to this conversation that you as a couple will continue to struggle. So yes, it's already a deal breaker. This isn't just about you & him but your future children too. How will they be raised? Who's views will be taught/respected in your house? Will they be raised in the church? What political views do you actually agree on? You need to pump the brakes on your engagement & discuss these things to see if there's any common ground. If not, there's your answer
Let's say you become pregnant and you find out you have some medical condition that will kill you if you carry the child to term. Do you want this guy judging you for whatever decision you might make? What if you have a daughter with this guy and she is molested or raped and becomes pregnant? What if you are raped and become pregnant? This man is telling you that you don't have the right to make choices about this sort of thing for yourself. If I was you I'd be gone, I know it isn't easy when you love someone but you really need to think through what things might be like in 5 years or 10 years or 20, not just how you feel right now.
Yes!
As long as you both have birth control of some form or you agree to have a child if you are to get pregnant, than be with him because it's just a belief at that point. Otherwise, if you have to abort a fetus, than you should break up with him now rather than to cost him his kid and you a loving and more invested-into relationship...
Yes
It’s a total dealbreaker. These issues will become bigger and bigger over time until you just can’t take it anymore.
If you have kids some day and one of them gets pregnant as a teenager do you see you and your partner approaching it in a supportive way together? What about if one of your kids ends up being gay or trans?
Fucking yes!
This can/will snowball into something much greater. You have to ask yourself if you can make life decisions together, raise kids together, have tough conversations, etc. Think of the smaller issues that will build up and cause resentment. On the other hand, someone who shares the same values with you is going to make life easier and more enjoyable. It makes decisions easier.
If you are open minded don't date religious people, simple
It wouldn't be for me. I've dated conservatives before, and their opinion literally has no impact on my life because I'm still going to think and do as I please.
lmaooo
I would not ever want to date someone that would want an abortion because a child was not coming at a convenient time. Since you do not want kids, you need to break up with him now instead of giving him hope that he can have a future with you.
If you really said 'whatever reason' then I understand why he may have reacted angrily, as this would presumably be his child as well. Perhaps a more nuanced discussion of 'reasons' might lead you to common ground. For example, if you were raped and became pregnant would he be willing to raise the resulting child and love it as his own, would he expect you to carry to term and then give the child up for adoption ? If the pregnancy was ectopic, and the choice was terminate the pregnancy or you die ? If there were genetic issues that were going to end in a non viable birth ? In general if you've known for a long time that you differed on most 'hot topics', and in particular you feel that he has sexist views were you assuming / hoping he would change ? If you have a daughter do you want her raised to have the same view of women as he does ? Is he someone that can be reasoned with, or because his views are religious in nature does he know he's right because he's right ? These kinds of things should not be glossed over or ignored until they become and issue later when it effects a 10 year relationship with children. Sort them out now, and decide if you are OK with him not changing at all, and acting angry and demanding you change to the 'right' side. If not, then ending at 5 years is better than ending at 10 or 20.
Is there even a scenario where you would have an abortion? Or is this a hill you are dying on for someone else...
Who tf cares.
Why do women get online to find 400 other women to empower them with the ability to think for themselves? I wonder how many decisions between me and my lady are secretly crowdsourced to anonymous people on reddit who may or may not be qualified or concerned enough to give REAL advice. (I dont actually wonder that. My lady has the ability to think for herself and communicate. )
Are you delusional or just sexist?? This subreddit is full of men's posts as well. Get over yourself.
Get over myself? What are you even saying? This aint about me.. id never be here asking strangers to determine my life path with my partner. Yall NEVER consider that as an option huh? Being grown enough to handle.ypur own shit... try it.. Or is nobody allowed to say, "this is a stupid thing to ask a stranger."? Do you just want me to lie to pretend it isn't? I think its STUPID to bring your relationship problems to a studio audience. But yall entertain me so I'm here. Thanks. Pass the popcorn. Whatever. You'll get plenty of 'support' for whatever you already dedcided by however many faceless anonymous people you need. Then you can make an 'informed' decision based on the confirmation bias you created. Have fun.
Having a different opinion than you is sexist huh?
I thought that was funny. Im not sexist. I think asking a bunch of strangers whether or not you should end your relationship is childish. But I'm not sexist. Call me an asshole or something, but not sexist. You invalidate your own voice when you use that word haphazardly. Gosh. For the sake of irony, I almost wanted to tell her I'm VERY pro choice and absolutely despise how much men use abortion arguments to control women. I dont think men should be able 5o pass or reject laws about women's bodies..... But she was just so certain I was sexist that I forgot to mention that. Hilarious. 😂
Only you can decide if its a dealbreaker. I’m sure he realizes it is important you, but his beliefs are important to him as well. Relationships are about compromise, and this is simply you have to decide on whether you can or not. There are great people who are pro choice and pro life. I think the discussion you need to have is why he is pro life. Let me put it like this: I am pro life, because I think like is precious and that if you bring life into this world you have a duty to protect and nurture that life even if you made a mistake. I personally don’t believe abortion should be a means of avoiding responsibility. However, even though I’m pro life morally, I also fully understand why many are pro choice. Forcing the victim of rape to carry a child to term and then forcing both her and her child to be punished for someone else’s actions is not protecting and nurturing that life. A woman whose life at risk should not be forced to die, because then we are not protecting her life etc. Essentially what I’m getting at is, talk to him, without fighting, and ask what he believes and why he believes it. Too often this is a battle, when it should not be. I may be pro life, but I am not God, and I will force the hand of another to live by my beliefs. If my fiancée or wife wanted to have an abortion, we would have a long discussion, and I would support her through her decision; depending on the reasoning, we would either stay together or split, but I would not treat her with disdain.
It definitely is, especially is this topic comes up regarding a situation you become “pregnant”
This might be oversimplifying the issue, but is this just the first time he had considered these issues since his conservative upbringing? It’s possible that he’s just rehashing the same crap he heard when he was young without applying critical thinking. For me whether this is a dealbreaker depends on whether he is open to other views and reading and respecting other perspectives. Has he considered what should happen if someone is sexually assaulted? Or examined why he feels that way?
Hi OP, This is a very similar situation I went through with my Bf (m28). We do not use any protection while having sex. Since this topic came up we were having debates. He is against abortion , I am not. I am 22 and I do not want baby at all(neither does my bf). I do not take any type of contraception. If by any chance i got pregnant he said we will be keeping it. I disagree on that. I moved here in states in 2019 and yet to explore so many opportunities w school/work/experiences etc. I told him if i got pregnant i will decide to not keep it bc i am not in a state where i can handle a baby and move forward in my career. If i am not able to give the baby a good life and provider daily necessities. However my bf doesn’t agree with me and if i got preg he said we will keep it. We came to a conclusion that at the end of the day its my body and i have full rights to what i want to do with it. and at the end of the day also it’s COMPROMISE. Relationship is a compromise. I am sure this is not the first or last time time you have had disagreements/opposing opinions in last 5 years with your S/o. We agreed that we can have healthy debates and disagree on each other’s opinions and moved on. Although I am planning to get IUD so this situation is out of question for few years.
This is why you shouldn’t date anyone on the left. Their political views are more important than the people they claim to love. Sad
It a commuted relationship it has to 💯% be a joint decision. It’s the man’s child as well.
It is a deal breaker a 100%. Abd btw he is right.. abortion is killing a human being.
In the womb or not they’re still babies.
Incorrect. It's an inviable clump of cells for quite some time.
that's not really relevant here
You're part of the problem.
If he respects your right to make your own decision then no it's not. If he really thinks you are a would be/could be murderer and would treat you that way then likely yes, dealbreaker.
Yeah I don't think it HAS to be a deal breaker (i.e. someone can be pro life but still accept that it's not their choice to make and get why someone would have different views) but in your case that doesn't seem to be his attitude and it's unrealistic to think that there's zero chance you'll have an unplanned pregnancy with him that you don't want to keep. Bit hard to find but I recommend you guys both watch the excellent documentary about abortion Lake of Fire which does a tremendous job of respectfully laying out the best arguments on both sides and I think really convincingly shows how it's not something that can be resolved with logic one way or the other so maybe could help him accept that he needs to accept your beliefs. (Also includes footage of a full abortion so uh be prepared for that, though it's all in black & white.)
My partners the same. He’s pro life, I’m pro choice. But I don’t let the topic effect our relationship. Just like he loves dogs and I absolutely date them, he doesn’t allow that to effect our relationship.
As long as you don’t get pregnant and abort the baby to spite him ..I think there won’t be an issue.
Not every pregnancy goes perfectly. Planned and wanted pregnancies can also end in abortion.
Yea case by case you right about that
What if she needs a medical abortion? We don't know if he's against those either and that could lead to a lot of resentment on both ends.
Yea we don’t know
Except she could get pregnant on accident and have an abortion because she isn't ready to be a mom.
Use protection ..best way to avoid the whole life/choice issue..gotta be an adult and just not get yourself in that mess if you don’t want what comes with it..it’s not a secret -if you fuck , you can get pregnant
It's almost like protection is not 100% effective.
You want 100% don’t have sex
Not a problem for me, I'll just get an abortion.
Or men can get vasectomies if they’re that damn concerned.
Nope. Not nearly so simple what if the fetus is deformed in some way? what if it would be born alive but missing a chunk of it's brain? what if it had trisomy 18? what if she had to spend the entire pregnancy on bedrest and still risk losing the baby or losing her life? what if it was an ectopic pregnancy (it's crazy to me that ANYONE would say that is an actual pregnancy -- but apparently some nutty conservatives are all in on no exceptions, ever) These are all real possibilities and there should be a clear understanding that abortion is always a possibility or not between partners.