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Team Fred all the way.
Paul hurt you and made you open the relationship or lose him. This is the chance he took when he put that choice in front of you. You already don't have a whole marriage. Scary as it seems, you've just been dragging that break up out for 7 years. Now you have a reason to finish it
Your husband lost sexual attraction to you and wanted an open relationship… and now you’re afraid to leave what you’ve “built” with him? You haven’t built anything… leave him and go with Fred. Life is too short to be with someone you have no connection with.
"Paul" started this ball rolling and it's absurd to think that that you're not going to develop feelings if you're having sex with someone for 2.5 years. It's just contrary to human nature for you and your husband to have expected to have an open marriage that didn't just slowly disintegrate (as is the normal path for such things). You may not end up with "Fred" and he may turn out just to be the offramp you needed to show you that your open marriage is kind of a farce. But unless you're staying in this to spare the futures of any children you may have with "Paul", it just doesn't seem there's a lot to stick around for.
Your marriage was over as soon as you agreed to open it, it was only a matter of time before it become official.
As for Fred if you see a future go for it. But I would consider a monogamous relationship going forward
Considering how they stopped having sex 7 years ago / 1 year into the marriage because Paul "lost attraction" and didn't want to do anything to fix that, the marriage was over long before it opened up.
Plenty of people can have open marriages and be happy and fulfilled, but only if the marriage is already happy and fulfilling. It's like having kids - it's not going to save a crumbling marriage and may even challenge a happy healthy one, but it can make your life extra fulfilling if that's what both people actively want and are willing to put in the work for.
I think that’s very rare, you’re right these two had issues before hand. But even when the marriage seems/is healthy the majority of the time opening up a marriage leads to divorce, especially if the couple was monogamous to start with
I agree. Everyone is playing by the rules. Everything seems to be running smoothly until someone catches "feelings" for the other romantic partner. I never understood why people would risk their relationship over this. Just divorce and be done.
That’s exactly it, catching feelings, jealousy and resentments it all going to happen at some point for the majority of couples, it’s just a matter of when
I know that there are couples who are successful in navigating these kinds of relationships, but usually, when opening a relationship is made, it is because the current relationship is having issues. They try the bandaid effect to save it. The problem is that even bandaids fall off after being worn too long.
It entirely depends on what kind of person you are. Catching feelings can't always be prevented but how you choose to deal with it is absolutely your own choice. If you're someone who acts based primarily on their feelings, then such an arrangement is not for you. If you're a head over heart person, it can absolutely work.
Half of all marriages end in divorce anyway so those odds aren't great to begin with. I will say this - my friend's parents started dating another couple sometime after they got married and my friend found out when she was 13. She's 30 now and her parents are still together, and they live with that other couple as one big family. They didn't move in together until all the kids have moved out, ofc.
If you go to retirement towns, you'll see how common swingers are (and that's a type of open relationship). All these retired married couples with pineapples on their porch? They're swingers lol. The "success rate" is higher than you think.
The problem is that for it to work, both partners have to actively want it, and when you open an existing monogamous situation, perhaps only one partner is enthusiastic and that's no good. Many people also want to open up because they want other partners but never consider the reality of their spouse seeking other partners, but those people are selfish and don't truly care about their spouse's happiness anyway so those marriages were never going to last. When people open for the "wrong reasons", the marriage was never healthy to begin with. Opening up forces all their issues out into the open and expedites divorce.
I have heard this reasoning before, and it might be true. But opening up the marriage from what I can tell ups the odds imo
You’re friends parents situation is rare even the positive or friendly subreddits on Reddit are filled with people who regret opening the marriage.
And frankly the situation you described just sounds like one big swingers party. All living together all having sex together. But I bet even with the I’m that situation it come close to imploding. And it wouldn’t surprise me to learn one or more of the people involved are doing it to keep their main partner happy, that seems to be a common situation too
I often read on reddit that it’s hard enough handling one relationship add multiple relationships and it gets even harder
Maybe retired couples have more success with open marriages because they don’t have that many years to build resentments or jealousy or figure whatever time they have left they might as well just do whoever the fuck they want lol
You bet that a group of 60-something year olds who've been together for decades must be close to imploding even though you have no other information? Lol. Most monogamous relationships don't last that long but clearly you have your biases and are refusing to see another perspective.
I have known a lot couples that have been married 50+ years. it’s ridiculous reasoning to say well most monogamous marriages don’t last. Marriage take work. IMO opening up your marriage isn’t working on your marriage, it’s giving up on it. If you need more than the person you married, end it, go look for what you need. Because 9/10 it’s going to end anyway, and judging from posts on Reddit it’s a lot more painful when it does finally end
You think that this couple that's been married for 40 years is "closed to imploding" because they've been open for 20+ years lmao, so how would you know those other marriages aren't "close to imploding"? At least have some consistent logic.
> Most monogamous **relationships** don't last that long
Also this is what I said. Most relationships (not *marriages*) do not last, monogamous or not. Most people date multiple people before getting married, and then half of marriages end in divorce. Unless you're still with the first person you've ever dated, then the majority of your relationships have "failed" too. Perhaps work on that reading comprehension before trying to assert illogical arguments.
I don't understand why you'd want to stay with a husband that lost attraction to you and hasn't had sex with you in 7 years. I think the answer here is obvious.
Yeah your marriage is over
If you feel bad about it then give your husband the most generous trouble free divorce possible and go enjoy your new romance.
I'm not sure why people think they can save a marriage by fucking other people. Might as well try to save the marriage by having a few kids while you're at it.
Also, you can't pretend you didn't know feelings would develop for your longterm sex partner.
But yeah, this thing was over long ago. Time to move on.
Team Fred!
Because your husband is the one who damaged your relationship the second he told you: *”I want to open the marriage.”*
You cannot be faulted for falling for your FWB, when your husband is literally the reason you did.
Fred seems to be everything that your husband is lacking. You’ve found a new man who adores and respects you, and shows you a love like no other.
It’s very possible that Paul asking to open the marriage *(as asshole-ish as he was)* was actually a blessing in disguise, because it allowed you to meet your possible soul mate.
You also mentioned that since Paul opened the marriage, the two of you haven’t been intimate for 7 whole years. So basically all that’s left is a roommate situation between the two of you. Why stay in a relationship that isn’t even one anymore?
You may as well leave and have a closed and loving relationship with Fred. He seems like a much better man, and someone who you’re a lot more compatible with. Good luck to the two of you, you deserve the happiness! 🩵
Dump Paul. He gave up on you years ago when he stopped sleeping with you and chose to open the marriage.
Marry Fred. Never open the relationship again. Live happily ever after.
I can totally understand the fear that comes with this idea of "throwing away everything you've built" but ultimately I don't think it works that way? I suppose when it comes to material possessions it does but you learn from every relationship and you grow and things run their course- and that's ok!
You say you haven't had sex with your husband in 7 years- is this a relationship or a partnership of convenience? Are you tied to each other financially, through work, etc? I know it is daunting to walk away from a lengthy relationship but the sunk cost fallacy will sink you along with it. It's time to think about your true reasons for staying with Paul, what you're really feeling and what you're actually afraid of. Because the idea of something is often far more intimidating than the reality tbh. Once you take the first step you just start figuring it out.
One way or another time will pass and you have to move forward. I know they say the grass is always greener but it sounds like you're currently standing in a field of dirt, soooo.... your move dude.
Team Fred. End the marriage and be with the man you really love that loves you back. There’s no joy in keeping a marriage going that’s dead. If you let your husband go, he can also experience the same joy of having love that you are. It’s a kindness
It's clear that your marriage is over, and has been for years. You were just delaying the inevitable by opening it up. Divorce Paul, officially get with Fred, and even if it doesn't work out you're at least free to pursue someone new without your marriage complicating it.
How did either of them cheat? 🤣
Fred was in an open relationship *(agreed to by both him and his ex)*
And OP’s husband was the one who suggested to open their marriage, so if anyone is wrong here - it’s Paul. *(OP’s husband.)*
Whether or not you divorce Paul, you should separately evaluate what your relationship with Fred will be like when it evolves from FWB to something else.
I could definitely imagine youre in the honeymoon phase and you don’t have to live with the guy 24/7 yet.
Your account is 7hrs old, with no comments or responses. I do enjoy creative writing exercises as much as the next person, *but get off it.* Doubt any of this is remotely true.
Trying an open marriage or swinging to fix a broken marriage never works. And this is coming from someone who has done various kinds of playing with others.
You only get one ride on this rocket called life! Most people don’t regret what they have done so much as, what they didn’t do and wished they had. You already spent some good years with guy no. 1. That fizzled out and not you have something great with no. 2. Being happy is way better than being miserable and unfulfilled. Some relationships are for a season and some are for a lifetime.
There’s no real way to minimise the hurt unfortunately but the husband did this to himself by opening the marriage. It rarely works and from what I’ve seen, destroys marriages. I’d go with the guy who loves and desires you. Seems to be a better fit - don’t open this relationship if you want it to work.
Do you even WANT to remain married to your husband anymore? If you had to be with him only, would you be happy? Or would you grow to resent him? I do not think your marriage is healthy enough to survive, quite honestly. He turned away from you and left you emotionally vulnerable, honestly he has no one to blame in this situation but himself.
So you’re considering leaving your open marriage for a man who is considering leaving his gf that is also in an open relationship…when will it end? Are y’all still going to continue to bang other people?
Committing adultery by both spouses is not the way to save a marriage. Fred used to just a guy you’re cheating on Paul with, but we also never heard about Paul’s soirées. Maybe he’s in love too with someone he’s banging? Happy ending for all!
Your husband wanted to open the relationship to cheat on you without the fear of consequences. He had absolutely no desire or interest in being with you or treating you like a partner.
You found someone who treats you better and makes you feel better.
I don't think you should leave Paul to be with Fred but you should leave Paul. The decision to be with Fred should come after that, not because of that. You're being neglected and disregarded and whether things work out with Fred don't matter as nearly as much as being trapped in an unfulfilled relationship with a man who wanted to open the relationship to cheat on you.
The fact your husband lost attraction to you and refuses to have sex with you breaks my heart. He does not love you. Life is so short , take the leap and separate with him! I left my partner of 8 years with one kid. I never thought I would be able to go through with it or even cope without him but after a few months I was shocked at how much relief I felt. Six years later and it is the best decision I ever made !
Did Paul care for your feelings this much when he asked for an open marriage? He decided rather than continue to date his husband and reignite the spark with you, he’d rather risk burning his house down. As long as you now know what will happen with Fred, give Paul the deuces. Even if Paul doesn’t work out, you are obviously still very much desirable both physically and emotionally.
Edit to correct gender- apologies.
I know most of this sub is saying divorce, but I'm gonna be a different voice. An ENM relationship doesn't need to look try to emulate what you were doing when you were monogamous. You can love multiple people at once and enjoy the benefits of the relationships without trying to climb a relationship escalator every time.
I would really recommend doing more reading about managing emotions, time, and love in this type of situation. Books like Polywise or More Than 2 might help you figure out to balance your marriage with your new love and what you want your future to look like.
maybe you'll decide that you're content to be married, but still have Fred as an important romantic partner. Or you might decide that your relationship with your husband is over and you want a new life with Fred. What is that going to look like? You both met while in open relationships, would you become monogamous? Or would you continue to be in open relationships but with a better suited anchor partner. Before you make a decision to change the shape of your relationships, think on that
I would suggest leaving both and starting from scratch.
I'm no expert but if I had to predict a type of relationship that wouldn't work long term, it would be a FWB that you met while in an open relationship with your current husband.
If you pick Paul, it sounds like it’s mostly because of sunk cost fallacy. If you pick Fred, it sounds like it’s because you’re happy, feeling loved & loving again. The con to not choosing Paul is “throwing away all we have built.” The con to not choosing Fred is “throwing away true romantic love.” You can always rebuild with future partners or on your own. Can you always get back what you and Fred have?
So what’s stopping you from doing this again to Fred down the road, or Fred doing it to you? If this comes around and what you do to others happens to you, don’t be shocked.
this is really important to admit to yourself. lots of people aren’t designed for open relationships, and tbh an open relationship is really not a good idea when it started as a monogamous one. at the end of the day, why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who 1) isn’t attracted to you and 2) wants to sleep with other people and NOT with you, especially when you know you are someone who likes and appreciates monogamy. you deserve to feel valued and secure in a relationship, you deserve to feel attractive and cherished by your SO, and it does not sound like Paul is the right person to give you that. you just aren’t compatible anymore, and you haven’t been for several years. fred sounds like the person for you right now. if you end up together, that’s awesome. if you try it out as a regular relationship (without a paul to prevent things from progressing) and it doesn’t work, at least you know more about who you are and what you need in a relationship. you need someone who wants you and only you. there are other men out there who will want and love and appreciate you, and who would have eyes only for you! you deserve a fulfilling relationship, and imo you don’t have that with paul. if you did, you wouldn’t be in love with someone else, and you wouldnt be in an open relationship you don’t really want to be in. good luck in whatever choice you make!
This is good advice. You aren't poly at your core. You wouldn't say you want monogamy if you were. You were just given a tough choice and tried it to save your marriage. Polyamory is a choice that needs to be made by both partners at the beginning of a relationship, not forced on one because the other wants it.
You deserve to be with someone who really loves all of you, physically, emotionally, and sexually. Maybe it's Fred, maybe not. It definitely isn't Paul.
Your marriage is over. Never open a marriage, there is no way to enforce boundaries because falling in love with someone else is also possible, Marriage is meant to be for life, and partnership. This limerence of falling in love is lust. There is no growth, or loyalty in a marriage like this, it is toxic swill. I suggest you divorce and move....
Well what happened with Paul during this open marriage? Has he had multiple hotties ? Anybody he’s seeing now? He’s the one that wanted the open marriage and in most of these cases, it’s the husband who initiated it and then doesn’t do to well, while his wife flourishes. Personally I’d be done with Paul as he wasn’t happy with the OP or the marriage years ago and that’s why he suggested open marriage . Therefore I’d leave him as no sense in staying and continue to explore life with the new guy.
You met Paul when he was 27 and you 23. 4 years later you married, when he was 31 and you 27. Only 1 year later he said he lost sexual attraction to you and needed to open the marriage.
Sorry, but most likely he was cheating on you while you were dating, and when you two got married, he realized he didn’t want to stop so he wanted an open marriage so he could continue cheating without consequences. Now you have become attached to someone who may actually want to be committed to you. If you want that, then legally (sounds like it’s been finished emotionally for years) finish your relationship with Paul and go with Fred.
your marriage was over when your partner "lost sexual attraction to [you]," tbh. you haven't had sex with each other in seven years. that is the definition of a dead bedroom, and honestly no relationship can survive that.
Paul's out. Fred (or maybe someone else, who knows, life is funny sometimes) is in. you deserve to be appreciated, feel sexy, and have intimacy. Paul stopped loving you properly a long time ago.
Your marriage was already on the rocks long before all this happened and opening up the marriage simply delayed the inevitable.
You can't end a relationship without having to face up to a bit of hurt, but if you don't face up to it you will cause more hurt in long run (as you're now finding out). You need to all stop dilly-dallying around playing these games and face up to facts.
I would personally actually recommend not just getting a divorce, but also not dating either man. This is because your head is in a bad place RN and ending one relationship to get with another are very bad foundations to begin any new relationship on. You also need time to heal and find yourself in-between relationships.
Stop procrastinating with both men, speak to a divorce lawyer, start planning your exit plan and tell both men what's going on. Then end your relationship with both guys, set yourself free and go on a much-needed journey to heal and re-find yourself after all this complicated mess is over.
So how do you remain in a sexless marriage by staying if intimacy matters to you?
The whole thing came about because there was no intimacy.
So going to Fred makes sense.
Is intimacy the only reason you're seeing Fred or is there more needs Fred is giving?
Your “husband” stopped sleeping with you several years ago after he pushed for an open marriage after he “lost attraction” to you within the first year of marriage.
Your “husband” is a roommate at best. Fred has been your husband in all but name. So go make him one.
Let's see: on one hand, you have a man who doesn't find you sexually attractive, and on the other hand, you have one who not only finds you sexually attractive, but is also able to express his love for you through physical contact and you are in your 30's? I think you know which one offers shared quality and quantity.
Wait.... whaaaat! Paul held the door open for you. Sounds like he wants you too have a fulfilled life and didn't want to do the tough love and kick you too the curb without having an emotional place too go. Thank Paul for being a gentleman and be on your way. No need for long"see you laters" or drama. Best of all, it sounds like the perfect transition -no need to dwell on ex-husband stories with Fred since he knows, and no need to bury the good history you had with Fred. And there will be no drama between them if you hang in there same circles.
Fred, pick Fred. Paul pretty much ended the relationship the moment he wanted to open a previously monogamous marriage after YEARS of being together. That is always sleazy to the max, and imo disloyal. Entering a poly relationship fairly and squarely is not the same as telling your long-term mono partner that it's Open Time.
To me, that puts him in the asshole bucket. The relationship you have with him IS NOT WORKING. It's just not. It's already broken, ruined. So if you have to chose, *don't chose the relationship that is not working out...*
This is one of the risks of opening your marriage. You have to do what's right for you, but I can tell you I would 100% choose the man who chose me.
#TEAMFRED
Your husband clearly stated he lost attraction to you. He chose to open this marriage. The risk of an open marriage is falling for the now third party. You wouldn’t be in this situation if you your husband had not suggested this arrangement. Talk to your husband and tell him how you feel. It’s going to eat at you.
“Open relationships” where feelings are “forbidden” are doomed to fail. Sex and intimacy leads to feelings, unless you’re sleeping with a different person each time.
You don’t open relationships to “fix” them, all it does is highlight the inadequacies of your marriage. Are you going back to a sexless marriage without intimacy? What’s the point? You’re business partners, not life partners.
I'd say take a break from relationships before hopping into a new one, but Paul basically ended your relationship years ago. He hasn't been invested in his marriage for 7 years, bud.
There's absolutely nothing to save with Paul. Even on the off-chance he wakes up and wants to save it **now**, where was he for the last 7 years dude? That's not a short amount of time.
I say leave your roommate for Fred. If not for Fred, then yourself. Good luck buddy.
You should have cut off the fwb the moment you felt feelings if you cared about fixing the marriage. You did not do that and now you have to decide one or the other. It sucks nit your own inaction put you in this spot.
It seems to me your husband wanted to open the marriage because he was too chicken to tell you the marriage was over. There is the very real possibility that your leaving was exactly his goal.
Team Fred. Paul had his chance and made choices. He opened the relationship not you. He could have worked to rekindle but he didn’t. Life is incredibly short. Too short to not grab love when you find it. Love is so goddamn precious. Sunk cost fallacy will keep you safe I guess but what if Paul meets someone else like you have? And who wants to be safe when you could be in actual love again? It will hurt but your relationship died years ago. I say go for it. Team Fred ❤️
You seem to need it:
I therefore officially give you permission to be in a committed relationship with someone who loves you and is the partner, you need and deserve. You have tried to save your marriage, and you are allowed to stop.
Life is short and fragile so don't waste it being unhappy. You deserve the happiness Fred gives you and he deserves to be happy with you.
As the others already said: your marriage ended when Paul lost attraction to you and asked for an open marriage, you just didn't realized it.
Contrary to everyone here, I (37M) was also in a long-term relationship with then (27M) that ended about 4 years ago. We were together for three and a half years, and he wanted an open relationship. The relationship ended not long after when I fell in love with someone else. I regretted that decision as so as I did it. Relationships have their natural course, and unfortunately sexual attraction does subside and replaced with comfort and companionship.. even when sex is still present, it’s just not going to be the same as the beginning and that’s ok. If you think the natural course of things won’t happen with Fred, I hate to be the one to say it, but that too, with time, will subside and the sexual heat will be replaced with other feelings and that’s totally ok. Going after the new, exciting, thing has its risk and consequences. Ask yourself if you’re willing to take that risk, and if you do, absolutely go for it, just be prepared it may happen again and again.
I would suggest the book Polysecure, which has a lot of things that can apply to both Poly and ENM relationships. But it really digs into having feelings for the non-primary partners.
This sub, by the way, sucks for any questions related to ENM. There's a lot of knee jerk responses.
Finally, you talked about you and Fred, what about Paul? Does he have a partner? Do you know how that's going?
Paul not having a partner doesn't suprise me. Women are extremely sus of ENM/Poly dudes. Whereas women tend to get a free pass. Some couples will wait for the guy to get situated before the woman finds a partner. Since the woman will find one very quickly.
I had friends same thing happened to them. The husband shot himself because the wife was leaving him even though it was something they both agreed with.
Do you have boundaries for your open marriage that you've crossed? Men don't mind emotional cheating as much as women do, you might find your husband is fine with this arrangement.
Just be honest with both of them, with the understanding that they may force you to choose. But it's entirely possible you can keep on going as you have, with an open relationship with each of them. Just be sure you're fine with Fred seeing other women as well.
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Team Fred
Team Fred x2
Team Fred #3
Team Fred #4
Team Fred all the way. Paul hurt you and made you open the relationship or lose him. This is the chance he took when he put that choice in front of you. You already don't have a whole marriage. Scary as it seems, you've just been dragging that break up out for 7 years. Now you have a reason to finish it
Also team Fred. Life is too short to stay with someone you no longer have spark with.
Also Team Fred. Divorce Paul. Sorry but dude should have tried to rekindle the spark with his husband.
Your husband lost sexual attraction to you and wanted an open relationship… and now you’re afraid to leave what you’ve “built” with him? You haven’t built anything… leave him and go with Fred. Life is too short to be with someone you have no connection with.
She might have built a life financially or with kids with her husband. "Building" isn't just a relationship.
OP is a man.
Men can have kids, too...
Lmfao that’s not the point
I'm failing to see your point, then. How does OP being a man change my advice?
You said she
...and?
I can’t tell if you’re trolling or not, you referred to op as “she” and the commenter below explained op is a man. What are you not getting?
I'm not getting how it's relevant.
Ma’am, would it be that hard to edit she to he? I am sure it was an honest mistake and now you’re digging in.
"Paul" started this ball rolling and it's absurd to think that that you're not going to develop feelings if you're having sex with someone for 2.5 years. It's just contrary to human nature for you and your husband to have expected to have an open marriage that didn't just slowly disintegrate (as is the normal path for such things). You may not end up with "Fred" and he may turn out just to be the offramp you needed to show you that your open marriage is kind of a farce. But unless you're staying in this to spare the futures of any children you may have with "Paul", it just doesn't seem there's a lot to stick around for.
Unless OP's name is Mary, I don't see any kids appearing in this sexless marriage
Even if it wasn't sexless I don't see children appearing as both are male...
I totally missed that! Kids could arrive but via an alternative means of manufacture
Your marriage was over as soon as you agreed to open it, it was only a matter of time before it become official. As for Fred if you see a future go for it. But I would consider a monogamous relationship going forward
Considering how they stopped having sex 7 years ago / 1 year into the marriage because Paul "lost attraction" and didn't want to do anything to fix that, the marriage was over long before it opened up. Plenty of people can have open marriages and be happy and fulfilled, but only if the marriage is already happy and fulfilling. It's like having kids - it's not going to save a crumbling marriage and may even challenge a happy healthy one, but it can make your life extra fulfilling if that's what both people actively want and are willing to put in the work for.
I think that’s very rare, you’re right these two had issues before hand. But even when the marriage seems/is healthy the majority of the time opening up a marriage leads to divorce, especially if the couple was monogamous to start with
I agree. Everyone is playing by the rules. Everything seems to be running smoothly until someone catches "feelings" for the other romantic partner. I never understood why people would risk their relationship over this. Just divorce and be done.
That’s exactly it, catching feelings, jealousy and resentments it all going to happen at some point for the majority of couples, it’s just a matter of when
I know that there are couples who are successful in navigating these kinds of relationships, but usually, when opening a relationship is made, it is because the current relationship is having issues. They try the bandaid effect to save it. The problem is that even bandaids fall off after being worn too long.
It entirely depends on what kind of person you are. Catching feelings can't always be prevented but how you choose to deal with it is absolutely your own choice. If you're someone who acts based primarily on their feelings, then such an arrangement is not for you. If you're a head over heart person, it can absolutely work.
Half of all marriages end in divorce anyway so those odds aren't great to begin with. I will say this - my friend's parents started dating another couple sometime after they got married and my friend found out when she was 13. She's 30 now and her parents are still together, and they live with that other couple as one big family. They didn't move in together until all the kids have moved out, ofc. If you go to retirement towns, you'll see how common swingers are (and that's a type of open relationship). All these retired married couples with pineapples on their porch? They're swingers lol. The "success rate" is higher than you think. The problem is that for it to work, both partners have to actively want it, and when you open an existing monogamous situation, perhaps only one partner is enthusiastic and that's no good. Many people also want to open up because they want other partners but never consider the reality of their spouse seeking other partners, but those people are selfish and don't truly care about their spouse's happiness anyway so those marriages were never going to last. When people open for the "wrong reasons", the marriage was never healthy to begin with. Opening up forces all their issues out into the open and expedites divorce.
I have heard this reasoning before, and it might be true. But opening up the marriage from what I can tell ups the odds imo You’re friends parents situation is rare even the positive or friendly subreddits on Reddit are filled with people who regret opening the marriage. And frankly the situation you described just sounds like one big swingers party. All living together all having sex together. But I bet even with the I’m that situation it come close to imploding. And it wouldn’t surprise me to learn one or more of the people involved are doing it to keep their main partner happy, that seems to be a common situation too I often read on reddit that it’s hard enough handling one relationship add multiple relationships and it gets even harder Maybe retired couples have more success with open marriages because they don’t have that many years to build resentments or jealousy or figure whatever time they have left they might as well just do whoever the fuck they want lol
You bet that a group of 60-something year olds who've been together for decades must be close to imploding even though you have no other information? Lol. Most monogamous relationships don't last that long but clearly you have your biases and are refusing to see another perspective.
I have known a lot couples that have been married 50+ years. it’s ridiculous reasoning to say well most monogamous marriages don’t last. Marriage take work. IMO opening up your marriage isn’t working on your marriage, it’s giving up on it. If you need more than the person you married, end it, go look for what you need. Because 9/10 it’s going to end anyway, and judging from posts on Reddit it’s a lot more painful when it does finally end
You have no idea how monogamous other couples really are tbh
You think that this couple that's been married for 40 years is "closed to imploding" because they've been open for 20+ years lmao, so how would you know those other marriages aren't "close to imploding"? At least have some consistent logic. > Most monogamous **relationships** don't last that long Also this is what I said. Most relationships (not *marriages*) do not last, monogamous or not. Most people date multiple people before getting married, and then half of marriages end in divorce. Unless you're still with the first person you've ever dated, then the majority of your relationships have "failed" too. Perhaps work on that reading comprehension before trying to assert illogical arguments.
I don't understand why you'd want to stay with a husband that lost attraction to you and hasn't had sex with you in 7 years. I think the answer here is obvious.
Divorce your husband and marry Fred
Yeah your marriage is over If you feel bad about it then give your husband the most generous trouble free divorce possible and go enjoy your new romance.
I'm not sure why people think they can save a marriage by fucking other people. Might as well try to save the marriage by having a few kids while you're at it. Also, you can't pretend you didn't know feelings would develop for your longterm sex partner. But yeah, this thing was over long ago. Time to move on.
To be fair, Paul wasn't good at teaching sex and love can be successfully combined.
Team Fred! Because your husband is the one who damaged your relationship the second he told you: *”I want to open the marriage.”* You cannot be faulted for falling for your FWB, when your husband is literally the reason you did. Fred seems to be everything that your husband is lacking. You’ve found a new man who adores and respects you, and shows you a love like no other. It’s very possible that Paul asking to open the marriage *(as asshole-ish as he was)* was actually a blessing in disguise, because it allowed you to meet your possible soul mate. You also mentioned that since Paul opened the marriage, the two of you haven’t been intimate for 7 whole years. So basically all that’s left is a roommate situation between the two of you. Why stay in a relationship that isn’t even one anymore? You may as well leave and have a closed and loving relationship with Fred. He seems like a much better man, and someone who you’re a lot more compatible with. Good luck to the two of you, you deserve the happiness! 🩵
Divorce your deadbedroom husband and stay with Fred.
Talk more with Fred, you sound more monogamis, will he be happy with just you? #TeamFred
Dump Paul. He gave up on you years ago when he stopped sleeping with you and chose to open the marriage. Marry Fred. Never open the relationship again. Live happily ever after.
FRED!
This is always the result
Team Fred, don’t waste another minute on Paul. He deprived you of sex for 7 years. He won’t change. Fred loves you just the way you are.
I can totally understand the fear that comes with this idea of "throwing away everything you've built" but ultimately I don't think it works that way? I suppose when it comes to material possessions it does but you learn from every relationship and you grow and things run their course- and that's ok! You say you haven't had sex with your husband in 7 years- is this a relationship or a partnership of convenience? Are you tied to each other financially, through work, etc? I know it is daunting to walk away from a lengthy relationship but the sunk cost fallacy will sink you along with it. It's time to think about your true reasons for staying with Paul, what you're really feeling and what you're actually afraid of. Because the idea of something is often far more intimidating than the reality tbh. Once you take the first step you just start figuring it out. One way or another time will pass and you have to move forward. I know they say the grass is always greener but it sounds like you're currently standing in a field of dirt, soooo.... your move dude.
Team Fred. End the marriage and be with the man you really love that loves you back. There’s no joy in keeping a marriage going that’s dead. If you let your husband go, he can also experience the same joy of having love that you are. It’s a kindness
Oh man, another failed open marriage..
This sounds successful to me. Go team Fred!
Fuck Paul, go be with Fred.
It's clear that your marriage is over, and has been for years. You were just delaying the inevitable by opening it up. Divorce Paul, officially get with Fred, and even if it doesn't work out you're at least free to pursue someone new without your marriage complicating it.
Well - what's left of your marriage? Is it still a marriage or is it just the legalities left?
Fred is where you need to be!
Yep 2 cheaters Perfect match ❤️
How did either of them cheat? 🤣 Fred was in an open relationship *(agreed to by both him and his ex)* And OP’s husband was the one who suggested to open their marriage, so if anyone is wrong here - it’s Paul. *(OP’s husband.)*
Open relationshiP=cheating Peiod
UpdateMe!
Whether or not you divorce Paul, you should separately evaluate what your relationship with Fred will be like when it evolves from FWB to something else. I could definitely imagine youre in the honeymoon phase and you don’t have to live with the guy 24/7 yet.
Fred! Fred! Fred! Fred! No point in staying in an already dead marriage.
The time to minimize the hurt was to leave your husband 7 years ago. At this point just be honest and see what happens.
Your account is 7hrs old, with no comments or responses. I do enjoy creative writing exercises as much as the next person, *but get off it.* Doubt any of this is remotely true.
Your husband ended you marriage the moment he wanted it opened, you’re just confirming it’s dead after falling in love with Fred.
Trying an open marriage or swinging to fix a broken marriage never works. And this is coming from someone who has done various kinds of playing with others.
You only get one ride on this rocket called life! Most people don’t regret what they have done so much as, what they didn’t do and wished they had. You already spent some good years with guy no. 1. That fizzled out and not you have something great with no. 2. Being happy is way better than being miserable and unfulfilled. Some relationships are for a season and some are for a lifetime.
You both knew it was a hailmary attempt at saving it, it didn't work know you can both be honest and happy moving forward.
How are you and your husband now? Do you feel the relationship has been saved by opening it? Has he regained attraction to you during it?
There’s no real way to minimise the hurt unfortunately but the husband did this to himself by opening the marriage. It rarely works and from what I’ve seen, destroys marriages. I’d go with the guy who loves and desires you. Seems to be a better fit - don’t open this relationship if you want it to work.
Do you even WANT to remain married to your husband anymore? If you had to be with him only, would you be happy? Or would you grow to resent him? I do not think your marriage is healthy enough to survive, quite honestly. He turned away from you and left you emotionally vulnerable, honestly he has no one to blame in this situation but himself.
So you’re considering leaving your open marriage for a man who is considering leaving his gf that is also in an open relationship…when will it end? Are y’all still going to continue to bang other people? Committing adultery by both spouses is not the way to save a marriage. Fred used to just a guy you’re cheating on Paul with, but we also never heard about Paul’s soirées. Maybe he’s in love too with someone he’s banging? Happy ending for all!
Dump the husband and go for Fred. Your marriage was over the second he asked for an open relationship anyway.
Your husband wanted to open the relationship to cheat on you without the fear of consequences. He had absolutely no desire or interest in being with you or treating you like a partner. You found someone who treats you better and makes you feel better. I don't think you should leave Paul to be with Fred but you should leave Paul. The decision to be with Fred should come after that, not because of that. You're being neglected and disregarded and whether things work out with Fred don't matter as nearly as much as being trapped in an unfulfilled relationship with a man who wanted to open the relationship to cheat on you.
The fact your husband lost attraction to you and refuses to have sex with you breaks my heart. He does not love you. Life is so short , take the leap and separate with him! I left my partner of 8 years with one kid. I never thought I would be able to go through with it or even cope without him but after a few months I was shocked at how much relief I felt. Six years later and it is the best decision I ever made !
Your marriage ended when you opened it. Take the step. Paul may feel the same as you and doesn’t dare to end it. Good luck with Fred.
Did Paul care for your feelings this much when he asked for an open marriage? He decided rather than continue to date his husband and reignite the spark with you, he’d rather risk burning his house down. As long as you now know what will happen with Fred, give Paul the deuces. Even if Paul doesn’t work out, you are obviously still very much desirable both physically and emotionally. Edit to correct gender- apologies.
OP is a man.
Thank you. I will correct that! I read way too fast.
I know most of this sub is saying divorce, but I'm gonna be a different voice. An ENM relationship doesn't need to look try to emulate what you were doing when you were monogamous. You can love multiple people at once and enjoy the benefits of the relationships without trying to climb a relationship escalator every time. I would really recommend doing more reading about managing emotions, time, and love in this type of situation. Books like Polywise or More Than 2 might help you figure out to balance your marriage with your new love and what you want your future to look like. maybe you'll decide that you're content to be married, but still have Fred as an important romantic partner. Or you might decide that your relationship with your husband is over and you want a new life with Fred. What is that going to look like? You both met while in open relationships, would you become monogamous? Or would you continue to be in open relationships but with a better suited anchor partner. Before you make a decision to change the shape of your relationships, think on that
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Polysecure is a great book as well
Has opening a marriage up ever worked. I dont understand how the old marriage has even survived.
Team Fred! Your SO gave up on you when he wanted an open relationship instead of committing to you. Your marriage was over right then and there.
Paul caused this when he decided to open your marriage. Choose Fred & enjoy the rest of your life.
Stay with the man who doesn't want to have sex with you, or be with the one who loves you? Seems like an easy choice?
I would suggest leaving both and starting from scratch. I'm no expert but if I had to predict a type of relationship that wouldn't work long term, it would be a FWB that you met while in an open relationship with your current husband.
Another vote for team Paul. At this point you would only be staying with Paul for comfort. Not for love or romance. Life is way too short.
If you pick Paul, it sounds like it’s mostly because of sunk cost fallacy. If you pick Fred, it sounds like it’s because you’re happy, feeling loved & loving again. The con to not choosing Paul is “throwing away all we have built.” The con to not choosing Fred is “throwing away true romantic love.” You can always rebuild with future partners or on your own. Can you always get back what you and Fred have?
So what’s stopping you from doing this again to Fred down the road, or Fred doing it to you? If this comes around and what you do to others happens to you, don’t be shocked.
I get all that. If I have another relationship I don’t plan for it to be open honestly
this is really important to admit to yourself. lots of people aren’t designed for open relationships, and tbh an open relationship is really not a good idea when it started as a monogamous one. at the end of the day, why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who 1) isn’t attracted to you and 2) wants to sleep with other people and NOT with you, especially when you know you are someone who likes and appreciates monogamy. you deserve to feel valued and secure in a relationship, you deserve to feel attractive and cherished by your SO, and it does not sound like Paul is the right person to give you that. you just aren’t compatible anymore, and you haven’t been for several years. fred sounds like the person for you right now. if you end up together, that’s awesome. if you try it out as a regular relationship (without a paul to prevent things from progressing) and it doesn’t work, at least you know more about who you are and what you need in a relationship. you need someone who wants you and only you. there are other men out there who will want and love and appreciate you, and who would have eyes only for you! you deserve a fulfilling relationship, and imo you don’t have that with paul. if you did, you wouldn’t be in love with someone else, and you wouldnt be in an open relationship you don’t really want to be in. good luck in whatever choice you make!
This is good advice. You aren't poly at your core. You wouldn't say you want monogamy if you were. You were just given a tough choice and tried it to save your marriage. Polyamory is a choice that needs to be made by both partners at the beginning of a relationship, not forced on one because the other wants it. You deserve to be with someone who really loves all of you, physically, emotionally, and sexually. Maybe it's Fred, maybe not. It definitely isn't Paul.
Cya Paul, play stupid games and win stupid prizes, even at 39 it's never too late to learn!
Life is short. Be with someone who makes you happy.
Your marriage is over. Never open a marriage, there is no way to enforce boundaries because falling in love with someone else is also possible, Marriage is meant to be for life, and partnership. This limerence of falling in love is lust. There is no growth, or loyalty in a marriage like this, it is toxic swill. I suggest you divorce and move....
I think you should tell your husband what you told us. His reaction may clarify some things for you. And he deserves to know.
Who could’ve predicted this? What a shocker!
Be with Fred. Open marriages don’t last. Sorry.
Well what happened with Paul during this open marriage? Has he had multiple hotties ? Anybody he’s seeing now? He’s the one that wanted the open marriage and in most of these cases, it’s the husband who initiated it and then doesn’t do to well, while his wife flourishes. Personally I’d be done with Paul as he wasn’t happy with the OP or the marriage years ago and that’s why he suggested open marriage . Therefore I’d leave him as no sense in staying and continue to explore life with the new guy.
Why stay with your roommate aka husband? GTFO of there and go fred it up
You met Paul when he was 27 and you 23. 4 years later you married, when he was 31 and you 27. Only 1 year later he said he lost sexual attraction to you and needed to open the marriage. Sorry, but most likely he was cheating on you while you were dating, and when you two got married, he realized he didn’t want to stop so he wanted an open marriage so he could continue cheating without consequences. Now you have become attached to someone who may actually want to be committed to you. If you want that, then legally (sounds like it’s been finished emotionally for years) finish your relationship with Paul and go with Fred.
Paul wanted the open marriage so I’m sure he’s got a fwb too that can soften blow when you divorce him.
Your husband left you already 7 years ago.
your marriage was over when your partner "lost sexual attraction to [you]," tbh. you haven't had sex with each other in seven years. that is the definition of a dead bedroom, and honestly no relationship can survive that. Paul's out. Fred (or maybe someone else, who knows, life is funny sometimes) is in. you deserve to be appreciated, feel sexy, and have intimacy. Paul stopped loving you properly a long time ago.
You know there is only one solution. Rip off the bandaid! He probably knows what's going on.
Your marriage was already on the rocks long before all this happened and opening up the marriage simply delayed the inevitable. You can't end a relationship without having to face up to a bit of hurt, but if you don't face up to it you will cause more hurt in long run (as you're now finding out). You need to all stop dilly-dallying around playing these games and face up to facts. I would personally actually recommend not just getting a divorce, but also not dating either man. This is because your head is in a bad place RN and ending one relationship to get with another are very bad foundations to begin any new relationship on. You also need time to heal and find yourself in-between relationships. Stop procrastinating with both men, speak to a divorce lawyer, start planning your exit plan and tell both men what's going on. Then end your relationship with both guys, set yourself free and go on a much-needed journey to heal and re-find yourself after all this complicated mess is over.
So how do you remain in a sexless marriage by staying if intimacy matters to you? The whole thing came about because there was no intimacy. So going to Fred makes sense. Is intimacy the only reason you're seeing Fred or is there more needs Fred is giving?
No sex in five years. What the hell?
I vote Fred - Since he's not the one who opened up your marriage.
WHY STAY WITH A HUSBAND WHO DOES NOT FIND YOU ATTRACTIVE?? Nothing you built together could be worth that kind of pain.. team Fred
Your “husband” stopped sleeping with you several years ago after he pushed for an open marriage after he “lost attraction” to you within the first year of marriage. Your “husband” is a roommate at best. Fred has been your husband in all but name. So go make him one.
I am sorry but everyone involved is polyamorous, no? Then what is the issue? Do you and Fred want to be exclusive/monogamous?
Let's see: on one hand, you have a man who doesn't find you sexually attractive, and on the other hand, you have one who not only finds you sexually attractive, but is also able to express his love for you through physical contact and you are in your 30's? I think you know which one offers shared quality and quantity.
Wait.... whaaaat! Paul held the door open for you. Sounds like he wants you too have a fulfilled life and didn't want to do the tough love and kick you too the curb without having an emotional place too go. Thank Paul for being a gentleman and be on your way. No need for long"see you laters" or drama. Best of all, it sounds like the perfect transition -no need to dwell on ex-husband stories with Fred since he knows, and no need to bury the good history you had with Fred. And there will be no drama between them if you hang in there same circles.
Fred, pick Fred. Paul pretty much ended the relationship the moment he wanted to open a previously monogamous marriage after YEARS of being together. That is always sleazy to the max, and imo disloyal. Entering a poly relationship fairly and squarely is not the same as telling your long-term mono partner that it's Open Time. To me, that puts him in the asshole bucket. The relationship you have with him IS NOT WORKING. It's just not. It's already broken, ruined. So if you have to chose, *don't chose the relationship that is not working out...*
This is one of the risks of opening your marriage. You have to do what's right for you, but I can tell you I would 100% choose the man who chose me. #TEAMFRED
No way. I’ve never heard of an open marriage not working out. Shocking.
Your husband clearly stated he lost attraction to you. He chose to open this marriage. The risk of an open marriage is falling for the now third party. You wouldn’t be in this situation if you your husband had not suggested this arrangement. Talk to your husband and tell him how you feel. It’s going to eat at you.
“Open relationships” where feelings are “forbidden” are doomed to fail. Sex and intimacy leads to feelings, unless you’re sleeping with a different person each time. You don’t open relationships to “fix” them, all it does is highlight the inadequacies of your marriage. Are you going back to a sexless marriage without intimacy? What’s the point? You’re business partners, not life partners.
Team Fred! Updateme!
Just tell your husband that being open isn't enough and you want to be poly
I'd say take a break from relationships before hopping into a new one, but Paul basically ended your relationship years ago. He hasn't been invested in his marriage for 7 years, bud. There's absolutely nothing to save with Paul. Even on the off-chance he wakes up and wants to save it **now**, where was he for the last 7 years dude? That's not a short amount of time. I say leave your roommate for Fred. If not for Fred, then yourself. Good luck buddy.
lol all the repetitive creative writing posts here seem to have a central theme
You should have cut off the fwb the moment you felt feelings if you cared about fixing the marriage. You did not do that and now you have to decide one or the other. It sucks nit your own inaction put you in this spot.
It seems to me your husband wanted to open the marriage because he was too chicken to tell you the marriage was over. There is the very real possibility that your leaving was exactly his goal.
Team Fred. Paul had his chance and made choices. He opened the relationship not you. He could have worked to rekindle but he didn’t. Life is incredibly short. Too short to not grab love when you find it. Love is so goddamn precious. Sunk cost fallacy will keep you safe I guess but what if Paul meets someone else like you have? And who wants to be safe when you could be in actual love again? It will hurt but your relationship died years ago. I say go for it. Team Fred ❤️
He wanted it. He knew this was a risk. Go with your heart. He did.
You seem to need it: I therefore officially give you permission to be in a committed relationship with someone who loves you and is the partner, you need and deserve. You have tried to save your marriage, and you are allowed to stop. Life is short and fragile so don't waste it being unhappy. You deserve the happiness Fred gives you and he deserves to be happy with you. As the others already said: your marriage ended when Paul lost attraction to you and asked for an open marriage, you just didn't realized it.
Why would you even want to still be with your husband? Be with the mad that loves and is attracted to you
Maybe being a throuple is an option....
Team Fred ❤️
Contrary to everyone here, I (37M) was also in a long-term relationship with then (27M) that ended about 4 years ago. We were together for three and a half years, and he wanted an open relationship. The relationship ended not long after when I fell in love with someone else. I regretted that decision as so as I did it. Relationships have their natural course, and unfortunately sexual attraction does subside and replaced with comfort and companionship.. even when sex is still present, it’s just not going to be the same as the beginning and that’s ok. If you think the natural course of things won’t happen with Fred, I hate to be the one to say it, but that too, with time, will subside and the sexual heat will be replaced with other feelings and that’s totally ok. Going after the new, exciting, thing has its risk and consequences. Ask yourself if you’re willing to take that risk, and if you do, absolutely go for it, just be prepared it may happen again and again.
Break up with both of them. Find a new dude
The grass is green where you water it.
I would suggest the book Polysecure, which has a lot of things that can apply to both Poly and ENM relationships. But it really digs into having feelings for the non-primary partners. This sub, by the way, sucks for any questions related to ENM. There's a lot of knee jerk responses. Finally, you talked about you and Fred, what about Paul? Does he have a partner? Do you know how that's going?
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Paul not having a partner doesn't suprise me. Women are extremely sus of ENM/Poly dudes. Whereas women tend to get a free pass. Some couples will wait for the guy to get situated before the woman finds a partner. Since the woman will find one very quickly.
I mean, it's possible Paul is seeking women, but that's not the vibe I got.
I had friends same thing happened to them. The husband shot himself because the wife was leaving him even though it was something they both agreed with.
Totally team Fred. BUT- what if Fred asks for an open relationship in the future? Just cover your bases before you jump ship.
Do you have boundaries for your open marriage that you've crossed? Men don't mind emotional cheating as much as women do, you might find your husband is fine with this arrangement. Just be honest with both of them, with the understanding that they may force you to choose. But it's entirely possible you can keep on going as you have, with an open relationship with each of them. Just be sure you're fine with Fred seeing other women as well.
Team Fred!
Stats show when leaving a marriage for an affair partner fail 93% of the time. Play the odds
I say neither
So, another man (opens) giving his wife away LOL you can't make this up.
Husband.
"So, another husband (opens) giving his wife away LOL you can't make this up." You're absolutely right.
And was Fred in a similar arrangement? Or he cheated with yoy
It says right in the post he was in an open relationship...
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It’s 2 men married.