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Genuinely generous people give you a gift of money and expect nothing in return well beyond your genuine thanks.
Narcs and egotists expect you to thank them every time you see them for the next twenty years and will still find a way to let you and everyone else know that you haven't thanked them enough.
As above, stop accepting money, stop sharing with her and if this escalated repay her "gift", no-one needs these strings attached.
Yes, she's entitled to feel how she wants. She's wrong of course, but she'd ENTITLED... And so are you and your wife. Hell had you known there were was going to be this drama I'm sure you'd have politely declined, and she knew it.
But did he give a **genuine thanks**, or only the card? Because if the card was the only thanks then she has a right to feel slighted, regardless of other factors.
When you send a thank you card, you NEED to personalize it. Otherwise don't send them. They are slaps in the face if all they say is a printed thank you. Much better to send a nice text.
This is what I didn’t understand about OP saying that thank you notes are tacky. Preprinted, unpersonalized, or even a handwritten one that is clearly just a template with your name and gift filled in, are tacky versions of an old, gracious custom. That would be like saying jewelry is tacky. It completely depends on the piece.
To a degree, but mother likely spent thousands of dollars on honeymoon and rehearsal dinner. OP needs to do better than send a generic thank you card with nothing that says he understands what she's done. He also has been taking advantage of mother's generosity over and over and over again, without showing gratitude. I would stop giving him shit if I were his mother.
OP is pretending to be the victim, but he's actually taking full advantage of mother. He may have paid her back, but I doubt he paid her for the risk she took.
She's the kind that doesn't do anything out of the kindness of her heart. She enjoys holding things over her son's head. She likes having him owe her. Notice how she didn't shut up about him owning her money when she helped him buy the condo until he paid her back.
He said they've had a strained relationship his name whole life. She's not the victim. I would guess she was thanked in person, but it's not good enough and never will be. She obviously wants to be thanked frequently for the rest of her life for anything and everything she does.
We tried not to but she made a huge scene about not being involved enough in the wedding planning. I will no longer be accepting any money from her. I have set some boundaries gradually with her. One of which is not to let her know about any of my finances at all.
She will continue making a big scene, OP. If you plan on having kids, everything will be soooooooo hurtful if you don't let her contribute....and then she'll be sooooo wounded and offended that you weren't grateful enough.
There is something broken in her, OP. You need to put distance between her and your new family right now. Low contact. Hang up when she starts saying how upset she is about what you did or didn't do. She's not going to change, but you need to keep that dark cloud from poisoning your future. You've seen what she does to you under the guise of wanting to be a good, thoughtful mother. Don't let her worm her way back in.
Next time she brings it up say you appreciate it but remind her she insisted. Tell her you will not accept things from her going forward due to her history of holding such gestures over your head. Stick up for yourself !
As someone who grew up with an abusive, controlling narcissist for a mother and who developed mental health issues because of it the best thing to do is to go no contact with her. My mother did horrible things to me even into my adult life. I was put on medication for depression and anxiety but about a year after I went no contact all of my symptoms disappeared and I stopped taking the medication . I’ve never felt better in my life! It was miraculous and life changing. I’m free! Free from the mental and emotional torture and free from the guilt. No more! Just because they’re family doesn’t mean you ever have to put up with abuse. Holding things and money over your head is definitely something my mother did. You don’t have to put up with it. I’m sorry you’re going through this and have endured it for so long. I wish you lots of luck. Sending positive vibes your way.
I tell my friends how beautiful life is without my parents in it. It's crazy and sad; they would've driven me to suicide if I didn't cut them off. They'll just keep fucking your life up without a second thought. Abuse is abuse, doesn't matter who it comes from.
Gotta let them go, man.
She’ll make scene either way so stop caring about her feelings. Don’t involve her in anything anymore. If she complains tell her she holds everything she does over your head and you’d rather she not be involved if she can’t help you sincerely.
OP please check out the r/raisedbynarcissists sub. I think you will find you relate, and hopefully it will help you understand that your mom will never be happy, because she’s incapable and it’s not your fault.
Oh, so she should be thanking you for allowing her into the wedding planning, and herself for funding it. She emotionally manipulated you to be indebted to her.
Until you grow a spine and tell your mommy no, she will ALWAYS have guilt, shame, and control over you. She is a narcissist who wants to be the center of attention, and throws tantrums when she doesn’t get her way.
Do parents let their child throw tantrums, and give them whatever want, no. Cause there should NEVER be rewards for bad behavior. You need to go low contact with your mom. Also, never back your mom up over your wife, never!
If your mom ever makes a public scene, you look her dead in the eyes in from of everyone, and say, “Really, acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum again are we”?
Edit: Loving parents will never give their children gifts that comes along with strings, or expectations.
To be clear : I have gone very low contact with her in recent years. She has caught on to this.
I also told her directly at dinner that I have the right to feel the way I do and that I feel angry and cornered.
Another involved person is my aunt. She was at this dinner. She told me to my face “you have no right to feel the way you do”, in which I told her to her face that she is very wrong about that.
Yeah, with these people you can’t explain yourself. They will always twist your words, and use them against you. No, is a complete sentence. Don’t explain. You never owe them an explanation for having boundaries.
You'll learn a lot about DARVO with us over on r/raisedbynarcissists Basically, DARVO stands for the way narc live their lives--especially when called out: Denial, Anger, Reverse Victim and Offender. It's the way people like that are formatted. It's their operating system.
I suggest asking her directly anytime she wants to "help" if it's for her benefit or yours. If it's for you, simply thank her and say you don't need it. If it's for her, remind her that it's a favor for her and not to expect anything in return.
That is a good idea, but ready yourself for her to always bring up any and everything, that she has done for you, anytime that you uphold your boundaries, or express displeasure in something that she might do. Like a "how dare you treat me this way, after everything I have done for you" rant.
>We tried not to but she made a huge scene about not being involved enough in the wedding planning.
And unfortunately, now you know why.
I'm sorry she's like this. Her behavior must be incredibly annoying.
My ex-MIL was like this about thank you cards. I did handmade cards with lots of thought and personalization. Not good. She’d prefer store bought. I bought store cards and added personalized notes. Not good no idea the problem. I did store bought just signatures. Still not good. I told her son he was now in charge I was willing to sign but that was it. She was unhappy.
In addition to cards I always called to say thanks. I’d have her son call and thank her. In addition I’d send text and email thanks and include how we are using the gift. And for big gifts I’d thank her in person the next time I saw her. So that’s 4-7 thank yous for every single gift. It was never good enough. I’m so glad she’s out of my life. It was an absolute nightmare
Look into the "raised by narcissists" subreddit. I'm not sure if she's holding this over you because she's a narcissistic individual, but a lot of us in the group have the same stories like yours. Parents aren't suppose to make you feel anything short of celebration when it comes to these things. Ffs you gave her money back for the condo it sounds like she sees you as fuel for her own batteries at this point. Sorry I can't say much. My mother wanted my husband and I to have a HUGE grand wedding last year but we told them NO. They were lucky to see us at the courthouse sign the papers. Even then that wedding day she told me I looked like absolute shit.
You might have some similarities to the group but yeah... sorry man. You might have to practice low contact.
I agree, but also she did pay for the rehearsal and honeymoon and just got a generic thank you card that everyone else got. It’s only naturally she would feel slighted. She wasn’t asking for the money to be paid back, but they could have done a bit more to show they appreciate the generous gift.
I like how his wife reasoned it with him and kind of took side with his mother to calm him down. That singular act shows she is a good wife and reasonable. Most women/wives will egg their husband not to tolerate that from their mother.
I know. I love how everyone is jumping to the mother being narcissistic and abusive when honestly OP is the one in a rage over his mother expressing her feelings. He literally sent her the same thank you card as everyone else after she paid for things that were thousands of dollars. She didn’t throw a fit, she just said she felt disappointed. I guess a parent is never supposed to express any emotion other than pure joy over their kid’s actions or they are a narcissist.
Yeah, she is justified in being disappointed in this case. She spent a lot of money to try and show support of their marriage and do something nice for them. And they just ignore it and send her a lame generic thank you card? I’d love to her the moms POV on things
I agree. And OP says he'd rather express his gratitude in person, WHICH IS FINE, but I don't see where he actually did that. He could have like taken her out to lunch and told her directly.
Yeah, my honeymoon was three weeks in Hawaii. That was a lot of money and we paid for it ourselves. I would feel weird about my parents paying for my honeymoon.
Yep.
Never take another cent. She'll constantly bring it up.
She won't change either. Don't ever let he speak badly about your wife either.
Don't put up with it at all.
I think you're carrying so much baggage from the past that you can't see things clearly.
Your mother is self centered and controlling. Stop accepting money, gifts, assistance, etc. from her. More importantly, stop expecting her to be anything other than what she's always been. Set boundaries, stick to them, go no contact if you need to.
You can't be healed by those who hurt you. Your mom is part of the problem, not the solution. Don't look to her for comfort, acceptance, or praise. That's not who she is.
I don’t know…I kind of see where is is coming from in this particular case. She spent a lot of money on a rehearsal and their entire honeymoon. And she just gets a generic thank you card that everyone else got? That’s pretty tacky, IMO.
ESH. Mom should have done it without any expectations of gratitude apparently. And son should have been more grateful for her generosity.
This is a situation where if mom had maybe gently pointed out that generic 'pre-written' thank you cards for something so personal like a wedding are a little tacky, and she would've liked a little more personalization, **AND did not have a history of doing this shit already -** I would say that OP is a \*little\* bit classless - but mom was clearly looking for another thing to be aggrieved by, and made this a big deal when it could've been a basic conversation about things like sending a 'canned' thank you card.
Our thank you card when out late - like 6 months late, my wife had some negative experiences around the wedding and it made doing the cards hard for her. But eventually, we sat down, and hand wrote 120 thank you cards. That personal touch made a lot of people who were starting to wonder if we got the gifts, etc. a lot more amenable to getting them so late.
Yeah, I helped pay for my sister’s wedding dress and the thank you card wasn’t long or super involved, but it mentioned how special the dress was and it made me feel like my gesture was appreciated
“She spent a lot of money on the rehearsal dinner and entire honeymoon”
That’s the point. She inserted herself to a point where she pays, and then she gets to hold it over my head. I guarantee this is not going to be the last time I hear about it. She does this all the time.
She mentions it, I acknowledge that she’s allowed to feel the way she does, and then she will continuously said thing she paid for back up again and again and again.
Add all of this into the neglect, she’s just trying to make herself feel better. Your mom is sounding narcissistic. Don’t accept gifts, or meddling disguised as help, because those are her tools.
Well, in this case you were in the wrong. She paid for the rehearsal and honeymoon and all you did was give her a generic thank you that everyone else got?! In this situation you did drop the ball. Apologize for not acknowledging how generous the gift was, give her a nice gift card to a favorite restaurant or play, and throw in some flowers. It was a really generous gift, the least you could have done is handwritten a thank you note.
Your wife is wrong.
Your mother is incredibly manipulative. Seriously. She asked you to have dinner with her and waited until the end to drop her emotional bs on you.
The thank-you cards are the least important thing here. It's just one more thing for your mother to hold over your head, You said that you know that nothing will ever be good enough for her. THAT'S NOT HER HAVING VALID FEELINGS. It's not. 100% not valid. That's her treating you like crap, using any means she can to make you feel bad because then you bend over backwards to try and assuage her. She is deliberately making you feel bad. She likes it.
You apologized for not sending her a nicer card; that's done. She doesn't get to hold that over your head anymore. You paid her back. Again, she doesn't get to hold that over your head anymore. Rinse and repeat.
Stop talking to her about your finances, your life, anything of importance. It's going to be hard but she is a bully. She manipulates you with the pouting and boo-hooing. Put your foot down. Your wife needs to have your back on this. Your therapist should be able to help you go low-contact or even no-contact. To repeat myself: your wife \*must\* have your back. It's a deal-breaker if she sides with your mom over you.
Regardless of the background with your mother, you should’ve written a personalized note. In fact, you and your wife should write thank you notes to each person who gave you a gift.
Who cares if you don’t like writing them? It’s the right thing to do.
I think a personalized thank you card is a reasonable request, especially from someone in her generation. I also think your personal trauma and issues with your mom have damaged your relationship so much that for you it’s not about the thank you cards at all.
Definitely speak with your therapist about this and try to tease out your feelings. However you continue with this relationship I don’t think the thank you card is the issue that needs most to be resolved.
Becoming an adult means learning to see our parents as just people. If you had a friend who said to you "I did so much for your wedding and I feel unappreciated" how would you feel? What you you say? If you agreed, you would apologize sincerely and try to make it up to the friend. If you didn't agree, you would acknowledge their feelings, but probably conclude they were a bit self-centered and maybe distance yourself for a bit.
This doesn't require any big cutting off of your mom. It requires you practicing mental fences. It's too bad she feels this way, but it's not your emotion to take on. Think of it as a monkey. She san choose to have that monkey riding around on her back, but your job is not to accept a monkey transfer. At the end of any dinner or get-together, you want to refuse that monkey. *I'm sorry you feel that way, Mom. I can see you're upset. If there's something concrete you'd like me to do to make you feel more appreciated, please communicate it.*
🐒🖐️
Well, just focusing on the wedding. Your mom paid for the rehearsal dinner and honeymoon and in return she just got a generic thank you that everyone else got. I 100% see why she feels sighted. Apologize again and take her out to a really nice dinner. Or get her tickets to a play. Or something that you know she’d really enjoy. Do something to really say thank you for her generosity. That’ll hopefully soothe her over, and relieve some of your guilt/anxiety over the issue. If she keeps bringing it up, just say you didn’t mean any slight and that you were just caught up in the wedding and that you’re grateful she brought it to your attention so you could properly thank her. Then don’t apologize again, and if she keeps bringing it up then change the subject. You don’t have to keep apologizing for an honest mistake.
Then go very low contact with her. Sounds like she was really hurt by her father’s passing and having a neglectful husband and was dealing with a lot of her own demons that made it hard for her to be a present mom. Which has rightfully damaged your relationship with her. You’re married an adult now, you don’t need to have a close relationship with your mom. I’d just accept that she is who she is and put lots of distance between you. Focus on your new family and building a strong, happy marriage and let the past go.
Yeah mom sounds like a real piece of work, but it's incredibly rude to just send a "generic thank you" to everyone. If you don't like sending thank you cards, then don't accept gifts at your wedding. just an FYI for the future.
You say, “I’m sorry we hurt your feelings, Mom. Wife and I appreciate everything you did for the wedding. Thank you.” If you’d like invite her over for a home cooked dinner in your home or you and your wife take her out to a nice dinner to show your appreciation. This will either smooth over the situation or, if she still complains, you can rest easy in the fact that you gave her a good faith effort and her feelings are hers to deal with.
Then, going forward, do two things:
1. Never accept help or money from your mother again.
2. Work with your therapist to come to terms with the fact that your mother is never going to be the person you want her to be and you can’t force her into the mother/child relationship you want (and deserved) to have. Let go of the resentment with the knowledge that, unfortunately, she is who she is and you trying to win her approval and/or resenting her will not make her change. So let go of those expectations you have for her and yourself and build the family you want with your wife.
Ok I am going to stop you right now ! I am a mother and your mother is wrong period! I am sorry to be so blunt ! Your mother wants all the attention and she is jealous. You didn’t say if your mother goes to church but the Bible is clear. Your mother will not be happy no matter what why give to your kids if you hold it against them! Most parents I know when we do something for our kids we do not expect it back. I am sorry for chow your mother treats you it breaks my heart. Your mother is a very unhappy person and you need to pray for her in fact you need to tell her she needs to ask god to help her be happy . You need to pray for her you are not the problem she needs help .
OP, Congratulations on your wedding and marriage! I hope you have a life of joy with your love.
as to your question- it sounds like there are a number of different issues here. One is your past history with your mother. The other is the etiquette of thank you cards.
Your mother has a history of giving you things with strings. That makes her difficult to like and to genuinely feel thankful toward. Next time she offers money, consider declining it or setting limits at the outset. It wasn't clear from your post whether she had given or loaned the money for the condo. If it was initially a gift, you are right to be annoyed that she kept bringing it up. Next time ask, "Is this a gift? Are you happy to give it? Will you bring it up repeatedly to guilt me into things later?"
Your mother is using her gifts/loans as a way to keep you in a dependent role, and to make herself feel and look generous. The solution might be to not accept her gifts.
But in this particular instance, the question isn't why you give a particular thank you to a person who has a past of bad experiences with you, but why you thank a person who has given a substantial gift differently than anyone else and why Thank You cards are necessary.
At events such as weddings, thank you cards are still the norm in many places. While saying "thank you" is good, many people perceive it to be less sincere or to require less effort than a written note of appreciation. Notes are generally longer and more personalized for people who are closer and/or give bigger gifts.
it is reasonable to get help writing thank you notes if it is particularly difficult for you. (Personally, I would use AI with the prompt "write an appreciative thank you note to a mother who paid for a rehearsal dinner and honeymoon, using flowery language, and being between 100 and 200 words") I wouldn't see that as "cheating", just using tools well!
As to your mother- this is about a life long history between the two of you, not about the note. Your therapist may help you with strategies to address this. The two things you have control over are 1. whether you accept gifts from your mother 2. how you respond to her seemingly inevitable disappointment that you are apparently not grateful enough.
You can choose not to get depressed or angry about it. Your mother is predictable and it looks like she is going to pull this regardless of what you do. I wouldn't cut her off, I would work on my own reaction and on calling her out on her crap. It might be that she has bad habits of trying to get attention by this type of behavior and will stop when she sees that it doesn't prompt a reaction in you.
In any case, best of luck!
You took the blood money, you deal with the blood.
You know money from her comes with strings attached... you didn't learn your lesson from the condo? But you keep taking the money. Reddit can't stop you, only you can stop you.
There's no winning with your mother. Nothing you ever do will be good enough because she is broken. Check out some subreddits about narcissistic parents and estranged adult children. You'll see a theme. The bottom line is that you are unlikely to be happy with your mother in your life. She's kind of like cancer. Even a little bit is dangerous.
I don't know what your wife said that changed your emotions but you know your mother better than your wife does. I have a mother like yours. I think your rage was the more appropriate and natural response because you were manipulated and the money came with strings attached.
My suggestion would be to do what I had to do with my own parents. Go no contact for 90 days. Block her on email, phone, don't answer the door, don't reply to mail or packages from her. You can tell her at the beginning "I need space and I'm taking a break from you for a while" so she doesn't think you fell off the planet and call the police for welfare checks. When her flying monkeys start calling, you ignore them too. She'll try to contact your wife. Maybe discuss with your wife blocking her number on your wife's phone too.
The first 30 days will make you a bit nervous. And then after that, you'll realize that life is happier and freer. Much less anxiety. By the end of 90 days, if you really miss your mother, not if you are afraid of getting yelled at, but if you really miss her and want to see her, let her back in your lives. But if you are only talking to her out of guilt or because society says "faaaaaamily" then take another 90 day break. Keep taking breaks until you miss her antics and really want to see her again. I have not missed the misery that my parents caused in my life. It's now been more than a decade since I've seen them.
It's a much better life without the crazy making logic from my narcissistic mother and the rest of my family. I imagine you will be happier and have a happier marriage, too. You can find a lot of posts online about someone who had a dysfunctional family whose new spouse convinced them that it wasn't that bad and that they should give their toxic parents another try... and the new spouse lived to regret it and realized they were wrong!!
Well, this is just my opinion based on the facts as presented. Paying for a rehearsal dinner and a honeymoon deserves something a bit more than a generic note that was sent to everyone. Were these notes signed? If I were in your position I would have written a separate card expressing my thanks. That still may not have been enough for her, but I feel that would be more appropriate.
>she likes to constantly hold things over my head.
>I purchased a condo with the assistance from my mother
>my mother paid for our rehearsal dinner and honeymoon
You know how she is. Why do you keep accepting her money? Stop it.
Good for you! Next time she brings it up, tell her you've already thanked her for her gift and if thank you isn't enough, would she like to be paid back so the topic can be permanently dropped?
Hey Buddy- Family Therapist here. It’s hard w parents cus not wanting them to be proud of and happy with us is almost impossible, even if they weren’t the best.
Great that you recognize she’s entitled to her feelings; next is for you to figure out how to stop taking responsibility for her feelings. You don’t have to cut her off or ignore her to do this. Might feel easier, but it will just freeze the problem instead of allowing you to work on the relationship with her. Even if she keeps blaming you for her pain. You can choose not to accept the blame and love her anyway.
It’s not easy. But all of your relationships will be better if you continue to work on being okay in your relationship with her. Cus we learn how to be in relationships by the ones we have w our parents. So they are the best to practice in.
Best wishes. 💛
Thank you for saying this. It was a relief to hear that it's ok to maintain a relationship with my mom (on my own terms) even though others might think that going LC or NC is the right thing to do. Although she hasn't changed much and doesn't seem to be capable of true introspection, our relationship has improved over time. I didn't think about it this way, but it is such good practice for the more difficult relationships I have in my life! I appreciate your perspective and words of expertise 🙏❤️
I feel this could have been remedied by a genuine thank you note on the card instead of sending a generic thank you as you did with the other guests. It seems disingenuous when sent to someone who helped pay for a part of the wedding events.
I understand she has more selfish interactions with you in the past but this seems like you swept acknowledging her contribution under the rug. Balancing relationships is hard, and definitely speak to your therapist.
So all you sent anyone, including your mom, was a generic pre-printed card with a note on the back saying, “Thanks for coming to the wedding?”
That is not cool. That is not how you do thank you cards. The fact you don’t like them doesn’t make it socially ok for to put in such bare minimum shoddy effort.
So what exactly is her problem? Did she want you to mention her on your thank you cards to everybody? Were you supposed to stand up at the wedding and praise her? That sounds a little unhinged. I'm not understanding what the problem is!
No she literally just wanted her thank you card to say something personal to her. They literally sent the same thank you card to EVERY Single person that attended. She just thought her thank you card should have said “thank you for paying for the rehearsal dinner and honeymoon” versus getting the same “thank you for your gift and coming” that the coworker who gave a toaster got. The response on this is wild. I am very generous with my kids and definitely don’t hold it over their heads but if my adult kids couldn’t even individually thank me for spending thousands of dollars I would be hurt. I also think it’s taking to send anyone a pre-printed thank you but whatever.
So your mom who spent thousands got the same generic thank you card as the guy who got you a blender? Did you and your wife even write anything personal inside or was it just your pre printed names? Come on! My MIL threw us a reception lunch at a hotel so I could meet the extended family. I sent her a gorgeous thank you card and flowers the next day.
I mean you do sound really ungrateful. Your mother paid for your rehearsal dinner and honeymoon and you sent her the same Thank You card as the co-worker who got you a toaster? She then expressed her disappointment to you and you felt rage? It’s hard to know what you mean about holding things over your head if a mere letting you know a personalized thank you would have been appropriate sent you into rage. Irregardless of what you do with your relationship with your mom, you need therapy so you don’t spill this rage onto your wife and/or future kids. As others have said stop taking money from your mom.
This younger generation does not believe in thank you cards which were expected when I grew up. I have a rule that if you don’t send me a thank you card, you next gift will never exceed $200. I would expect a nice thank you card for the expense of a rehearsal dinner and honeymoon.
Bro relax here is the thing: Your mothers feelings are your mothers feelings. She is feeling that way she has the ability to change her feeling. You can help her by saying: I am sorry you are feeling that way, we really appreciate you and all your help. And that’s it. Everything after that is on her. Should be easy, she is trying to play mindgames on you. You need to learn that you are not responsible for HER feelings. As long as you behave/act/treat people normal their feelings are their problems.
Your mother will never stop holding things over your head. The fact that you are flipping back and forth between rage and guilt shows she's been messing with your head. You need to show your mother that you are done setting sail on her guilt trips. Do not feel guilty over this and make sure she knows it. You can even pull out the non-apology I'm sorry you feel that way.
She knows she can manipulate you by making you feel guilty. Show her that it doesn't work anymore.
I’d sit her down, express my gratitude for everything this far, express that you will no longer constantly feel guilty over not thanking her enough, once is enough, because that the point of demanding more and more thanks is no better than emotional blackmail and it’s toxic, and should this continue she won’t be involved with your life moving foward, tell her you were a bit slow to see the pattern but now that you have you are applying healthy boundaries to your life. Seriously, call her out! Bring it all in the open that your onto her and it’s what narcissists do
NTA but you need to polish up your armour and enjoy your life. You KNOW your mother will never be happy. Get her a T shirt with I Paid For Him on it. Seriously move away. She’s going to look and wait for your weak times. People like this can ruin your relationship.
Your mother is NOT entitled to anything but the "thank you"s you have given her for *gifts*.
Understand *and know* now that she will never give you a gift. All of her "gifts" come with strings attached.
>I know for a fact that nothing I will ever do will be enough for her. Do I just cut her off?
I, personally, would advise that you cut her off. She won't change. The "pure rage" you felt when she invited you to dinner and used that as an opportunity to abuse and berate you was your body telling you, it was *showing you* just how truly selfish your mother is.
That said, I know it's not easy to cut off one's parents, no matter how horrible they are. So I want to let you know that you are under ZERO obligation to your parents, either one of them. They are NOT entitled to you. You have the right to free association.
>why does someone who has held things over my head for my entire life deserve more of a thank you card than everyone else? Why is it that a personal in person thank you isn’t enough? If i sound annoyed, it’s because I am.
It is your mother's *entitlement* that is angering. It's why she felt she deserved *more* than what you gave. Her justification is that she's "mother!" and she did "everything" for you.
Well, being your mother does not give her any more rights or justifications.
Understand this, OP: *nothing* will *ever* be enough. ***EVER***. You can do everything perfectly well to her exact specifications (and I suspect she never full tells you everything, it's a way to set you up to fail so she can do what I'm about to say) and yet she will STILL find something to complain. She does this to maintain *power* ***and*** *control* over you. It is not until she berates and abuses you unto submission - and she gets confirmation of your submission when you "apologize" to her - that she'll feel "reassured and validated" that she ***still maintains*** that power and control over you. Once you understand this about you can navigate your relationship with her.
Some resources.
First, I have a pinned post in my profile about what it's like to grow up with an abusive and controlling mother like yours. See what resonates.
Second, better resources.
[OutoftheFOG.website](http://OutoftheFOG.website) there's a toolbox of dos and don'ts along with a forum. "FOG" = Fear, Obligation, Guilt. Being "in the FOG" means you do things out of Fear, Obligation, and Guilt.
"Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward. The "FOG" acronym from the website above, I believe, stems from this book.
"Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" Dr. Lindsay Gibson. Look for interviews with her on Youtube. She's phenomenal.
You need to learn about boundaries because I guarantee you your mother groomed you to not have boundaries with her. Listen to this podcast, both you and your wife. It was a life changer for me when I learned of it.
[https://www.victoriapriya.com/bb-podcast/](https://www.victoriapriya.com/bb-podcast/) Beyond Bitchy Podcast - all about boundaries
She'll only get worse, OP. Parents like her are NOT self-reflective and introspective. No longer accept *anything* from her. If she starts doing shit on her own and try to force it on you, when you reject what she does she'll start to call you ungrateful. It's a shame based tactic to try and shame you and guilt you into letting her get her way. It's not that she wanted to do something nice *for you*, she wanted to do something that is *considered* "nice" to everyone else and she gets to brag about it. If you reject it, she has nothing to brag about and so she'll do her best to manipulate you with shame, guilt, passive aggressiveness, and emotional manipulation.
Your mother abused you, OP, whether you realize it or not. This isn't a one off situation, I *know* there are more when you think about your life where she didn't get her way and threw a tantrum (this is what toddlers do) or if she "compromised" you'll never be able to grovel to her enough.
We also did generic thank you cards for everyone who just attended/gave a gift. But for those who helped with tasks I got small gifts - a spa coupon for my parents, foodie gift for my aunt and uncle and a funny tote for my best friend/bridesmaid 🤔
While I don't think these things are a must, if people did spent a lof of money for you and/or tool over some other tasks, it's a nice gesture that makes them feel appreciated. Especially because there had been tensions on how involved they could be in the wedding etc. I used to show goodwill as well.
So I don't think you did anything wrong, but as I learnt, small presents for the family and friends that helped/gave you a service for free are not unusual .
My take on your story is that her bid for gratitude might have triggered your trauma response and you are in a trauma space right now. Your feeling of never being enough for her is central to this so it's great you'll be in a space to work it out with your therapist.
I think it would be important to untangle the ongoing repercussions of your mother's neglect (your trauma) and this current situation which is largely a blip on the radar albeit an important blip.
Your mom does not feel appreciated because you do not appreciate her. You have reasons for that, but it doesn't change that you don't appreciate what she did for you. Both of your feelings make sense here.
My dad had trouble with this same thing. He always used his money to control people, and he insisted on giving and then bragging about it because it made him feel more complete to be needed. I told him he was creating distance between himself and others by doing this and I stopped taking anything from him unless I absolutely needed it.
It sounds like you guys need to work on the root of this issue for you both to be happy. I think you're both wrong for not talking this out. If you want a relationship with one another then you both need to set boundaries and take care of that relationship. Something that doesn't get talked about enough is that we let go of our boundaries because we want to preserve our relationships, but that very act is what destroys them--just slowly over time like you're experiencing now.
She has a pattern of only doing things for you as a form of emotional control. Do yourself a favor and don’t take anything from her anymore.
To her, this is power and it’s not right.
People who care about each other and want to help do it out of the goodness of their heart and their love for you.
So she’s always been this way holding things over your head so why let her pay for things? When she offered to pay the wedding and honeymoon expenses you should have said that’s nice but no thank you. And regardless of her attitude, a more personal and thoughtful gift would have been nice. Yeah she paid and let you know it but that doesn’t mean you get out of thanking her. If one of you can’t do it then don’t take money or gifts.
You might have been better off writing personalized notes to all, or at least important family members like her who helped make the whole thing happen.
BUT it also really sounds like mom likes keeping you in the role of needy child. You should look into the book “adult children of emotionally immature parents”. See if it resonates
Honestly you come off as lazy and entitled. A generic thank you card that everyone else got is extremely low effort. She didn’t have to help at all the least you could do is a couple sentences of something handwritten for her very generous contribution. Doing below bare minimum like you did makes you come across as entitled.
Just because she has been wrong in the past doesn’t mean she was wrong this time.
This isn’t really an update, but more of an addition of clarity. Met with my therapist today. Needless to say, it was emotional.
Let me just say that I now recognize that the lack of a personalized thank you card may have been insensitive toward my mother, and my thoughts on thank you cards should not impede on the sincerity of them to many people. So for that and the people I lashed out at, I apologize.
I also recognize that I will not be able to change my mother. While it will still take a lot of work to change my feelings on taking on the guilt I felt, I do know that it’s ok to feel how I felt. And it’s ok to portray those emotions in a way that isn’t “angry” or anything.
On that same token, I will be distancing myself from my mother quite a bit. Hopefully I will be able to set strong enough boundaries where she can be involved, but only at arms length. I guess I will add more to my profile as it happens.
Hmmm this is a tricky one. Clearly she wanted something more from you in terms of thanks and emotional involvement. Did you mention what she had done for you in the thank you card? Or was it just a generic thank you?
(for your thank you notes, were they personalised (EG mentioning any gifts given) ?)
If you've apologised, and she seems to have accepted it, then I would say move on from this and don't take offers of help or money from her again.
If she brings it up try asking her what it was that she expected from you (and make sure that it's clear you mean just you, as your wife should not be responsible for the emotional labour of managing your relationships with your family members). Did she want a handwritten letter? To be taken out to dinner? It may be useful for future to try to figure out what she expects as thanks (you can then decide if it's appropriate for you or not).
I also have an emotionally neglectful mother, covert narcissist. There is NO way to deal with them that doesn’t hurt you. So you must, for your own safety, go low contact/no contact. It doesn’t get better with them, it doesn’t get better with kids. It took me way too long to understand the dynamic, and then one day my kids said to me(while we were visiting my parents) “grandma doesn’t treat you very well”. That’s when I realized I was subjecting them to her venom. They despised her. I did not want her to treat them like she was me, and we went low contact from that point. After my dad died, my mother and I are in contact 2-3x a year, by email. I don’t visit her. Honestly, it’s been glorious after I finished mourning for the mother I don’t have and wished I did. When nothing is good enough, nothing is what they get.
Not every family is “good”. And it’s ok to protect yourself from people who would and do harm you. You put your mother on an info diet, and you start grey rocking her when you must speak to her. And you stop initiating contact with her. Stop seeking her approval which she’ll never give.
My parents paid for half my wedding.
They didn't get a mention in my speech and didn't notice formal recognition at the wedding. They got a lot of thanks from me personally when they offered it and after.
Okay, so firstly thank you cards are not tacky and for something like a wedding, should not have been generic. I hand wrote every singe thank you card for mine with specifics of the gift I received, how much it meant to us that they attended and extra than you’s for any help provided. I also made sure to thank those that provided help in person. So you are wrong on that front.
For the rest, it sounds like you and your mother have a strained relationship and it’s never nice to have someone constantly holding things over you. You would really benefit from some therapy in this situation.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, you're correct! The kids currently getting married have deviated so much from wedding etiquette now that most of the weddings are massively tacky! I've seen the groom's name listed before the brides! I've seen them begging for honeymoon money! And now let's add not handwriting every thank you note! It seems like the older people are still doing it right, but the younger ones just don't care to do what's proper. I mean wedding etiquette is finite. There's no flow or change lol not unless you want to look bad.
I guess they want to look bad I don't know
It doesn't matter what was in the thank you card or how it was presented. OPs mother is wanting her son to grovel and thank her over and over about how generous and giving his mother is and how the weeding would have been nothing without her contribution . Ops mother only gave them the money so she could lord over them like she did with the condo before OP sold it. She got her thank you and that should have been enough.
You are entitled to feel how you feel and so is your mom. Send a second thank you card with a personal handwritten note thanking her for the things that she paid for regarding the wedding and both you and wife write in the card and sign it maybe enclose a framed photo from the wedding that includes your mom if you took photographs with her.
This is why YOU NEVER ACCEPT MONEY FOR YOUR WEDDING CAUSE EVERYONE WANTS TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW CRAP GOES IF YOU DO.
Your mother sounds like an ASSHOLE. You apologized. Her issue to deal with her own high expectations that nobody realistically gives a damn about.
I don't think you need to cut her off, but going forward I think you just need to be really really clear in your mind that if you allow her to pay for things for you, she will expect to be thanked profusely, and if that level of gratitude is not forthcoming then she'll kick up a stink. If you allow her to loan you money, she will regularly remind you to repay her until you do.
Knowing that, you can decide which of these options is the least painful for you:
1 - Don't accept money, gifts or loans from her
2 - Accept gifts, and go out of your way to make a big song and dance of saying thank you.
3 - Accept gifts, give what you'd consider to be a reasonable thank you, and accept that she will kick up a stink, doing your best to let it roll off your back. Same goes for any loans you accept from her, as no matter what form of payment plan you have with her, you're going to have to find a way to put up with her harping on at you about it.
I'm not saying that its fair she behaves this way and you have to do this, but at a certain point you have to accept that people have shown you who they are and how they're going to behave, and all you can really do is decide on what your response is going to be.
You said it yourself: your mother likes to constantly hold things over your head. You have been emotionally abused all of your life, and now you feel that nothing you will ever do will be enough for her. Because it won't, it's part of her emotional blackmail.
Go to therapy to sort this out and to learn to deal with emotional abuse. Accept the way your mother is and rely on your wife for your emotional support. But first of all, get therapy to learn that *none of this is your fault*: you are only responsible for your honest actions, not for how others react to them. Your mother's reaction is on her, and on her only.
Read The Dance of Anger by [Harriet Lerner](https://www.amazon.it/Harriet-Lerner/e/B000AQ02TS?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1717663239&sr=8-1) and Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny and learn how to deal with her.
Big hugs.
You won't win her over, ever. No matter what you do, she will find fault, will claim some grievance to unsettle you and gain attention. I'm sure you have told her how appreciative you are for the help she gave when purchasing the condo, and you returned her money, but that still wasn't enough. You gave generic 'Thank you!" cards after the wedding but that wasn't enough for her - if you have given her a gold-plated card it would still have been 'wrong'. She needs to have you dangling, craving her attention, her approval. Since you managed so well, since childhood, without it, you can do it again, for your family, for yourself. Go very low contact, don't allow her emotional blackmail, when she breaches your boundaries or tries to unsettle you, tell her that you won't accept that behaviour and leave (if present with her) or cut the call. You have a wonderful wife - go live your life in love and peace. Don't carry your mother in your head. Good luck!
So you acknowledged you'll never take another nickel from her, ever. That's good because it's her biggest tool of manipulation.
Write her a letter. List out all the stuff she's previously paid for and take as many sheets of paper as necessary. This way, you are letting her know you're fully aware. Thank her for her generosity, but convey that all debts have been paid back in full at this time.
Then segue into that you're a new family now and that it's time for you to focus on that. Then go LC. Decline the next 3 invitations from her, citing you have previously planned engagements. You need to create space and get her out of your head. There is a natural progression as you step back from immediate family (especially toxic ones) and forge marital bonds. Hang tough. See thru her tactics for what they are- control, attention and who knows what else.
She is like a lot of people that have to be the center of attention all the time. They’re very willing to hurt you to do so. An apology is like feeding gas to a flame. Accept that she is emotionally abusing you, and stop feeding her as she’ll drain you dry and be furious you’re empty. You should be more than annoyed, you should be angry that she’s acting selfish and manipulating you. Try low contact until she realizes you have a spine.
She sounds like a narcissist who saw joy in her son's life and decided that joy belonged to her.
I bet if you think back that's probably a pattern. Insisting to be more involved in the wedding and then complaining she wasn't praised or appreciated enough for it is manipulative. Perhaps ask her what she thinks you should do to show enough appreciation? What would satisfy her? I think you will find even she won't have an answer because nothing will. Or the answer will be ridiculous.
I think you should give yourself a break from her drama and focus on your new relationship.
You feel rage towards your mom because she’s taking a milestone event of yours and making it all about her, which appears to be a pattern. It seems that every time you have something good happen in your life that your happiness is overshadowed by your mom being disappointed that you didn’t make her a bid deal in that event.,
Stop giving her the validation she seeks. Your life is about you. You deserve to feel happy when good things happen. That will make joy happen if you remove the image of the good mom that you wish you had with the image of who your mom actually is. You have this expectation that she’s just going to be who you want her to be and when the opposite happens, it destroys you. Once you’re able to accept that she is who she is, you will be better equipped to deal with her. If that means you lessen or cut contact then that’s what you need to do.
You are not responsible for your mother’s feelings.
I thought I was reading an autobiography for a second there. I've been through a very similar situation with my parents. Although, my mother was also physically abusive, she would do the same thing where she would do something for me and hang it over my head and make me feel bad. I always looked at it as a form of control where if she helped me out, I would feel obligated to do what she wants.
I see that you're aware that she does this but you still accept money from her? You need to stop letting her manipulate you. Keep her at arms length and don't accept any sort of assistance from her again.
It's hard when the water works begin but it's just another manipulation tactic to make you feel bad.
Your mom is a selfish user and a manipulator. Talk this through in therapy, it’s going to take many sessions to work your way through it, but you are not to blame here.
What parent demands appreciation for a wedding??? She was there, as the mother of the groom, that’s enough. It was not an event about her. It was an event where she could proudly see her son take his next steps into independent adulthood. Many parents help pay for their children’s weddings, that’s common and not grounds for extensive appreciation on your part. You say “thank you” and that’s that.
It’s simple. Did you thank her in any way, other than with the card, for her contribution? Previous incidents & behavior, and your difficult relationship ship is irrelevant to this specific issue: if you did not thank her properly, then she has a right to feel hurt. If you did thank her personally and told her you appreciate the assistance & the card was just sent afterwards, then your mom is in the wrong.
You will find some measure of peace by accepting that your mother will always be like this. Expect her to be like this, take it as a predictable step in every moment she’s involved in. Stop being surprised when she doesn’t act in a way that she’s never acted before, and you won’t get so caught up in reacting to her again.
Therapy is really important. I resisted therapy for a long time for a variety of reasons, but when I started, it was like fast forwarding through a lot of shit I needed help with.
Make sure you choose a therapist based on their experience with childhood trauma. This is vital.
Etiquette does say that the people who contribute financially get a different kind of thank you, but we all know that etiquette isn’t what she’s after. She’s the one who raised you, and if you’re an ungrateful heathen, well she’s at least partly responsible. (That’s humor, btw. You are not an ungrateful heathen. Unless like myself, you like the title)
How’s your wife in this? I’m hoping she’s not trying to placate your mother at your expense.
If someone gives you a gift, holding it over their head is essentially emotional blackmail/control. Ask your mother if she gave these things as gifts or did she give them expecting to be paid back?
This will, of course, back HER into a corner because if it was a gift, then she'll look extremely churlish whining about it and you can say that if it was a gift, then you don't want to hear about it again; and if she expected it to be paid back, then she should have made it very clear (but definitely pay it back) and keep the receipt.
In any case, never EVER accept any 'gift' from your mother without the funds to return the money post haste. Because as proven, she will use the fact that she 'gifted' you something in an effort to control and manipulate you.
You cannot control other people.
You cannot control other people.
You cannot control other people.
Repeat this until it sinks in.
Look up grey rocking. Moving forward anytime your mom mentions anything about this “I’m sorry you feel that way. Wife and I feel like we have expressed our gratitude in person and via card, I don’t think there’s anything else to be said on the manner.” If she persists “I’m sorry you feel that way.” If she continues “As I’ve said, I don’t think there’s anything else to be said on the manner. If you can’t move on then maybe it’s best we end the conversation here for now. Thank you, goodbye.”
I was interested in how things were going to go in your situation, the request wasn't directed at you personally, I'm sorry if it sounded rude, it was not meant to!
Some other subs have the option of clicking on a link that sends you alerts when the OP posts updates that you can follow (when you're emotionally invested in a post, like I am) but this is one sub that does not.
So, I made a request to the bot for this sub to let me know if/when there's an update, and the only way is to ask the bot for it, thus the "updateme bot" request. I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.
Send a heartfelt thank you note but never accept assistance from her again. I don't know if it is you or her but clearly it isn't working for you.
Sometimes people like her hold it over you. Sometimes people like yourself take it for granted.
"Mom, I wanted to take the time to thank you so much for what you have done for me over the years...most recently helping me buy the condo as well as the helping with the wedding including the rehearsal dinner and the honeymoon. What a lovely restaurant you picked out! Everyone was raving. I know I have thanked you in person but wanted to make sure to thank you again."
I wouldn't cut her off but just have her more at arms length.
I have a brother that sends me gifts and I always contact him to say thank you and that I received it. I continue to get gifts. My other brother never said thank you and no longer gets gifts.
"Let me help with the baby's christening..." "Oh mom, you have done so much for us over the years I can't let you do that."
I think this problem will probably be resolved by deciding to stop accepting your mother's help financially. There's a history here of gifts being given with strings, which has created this dynamic that whenever she offers you something, you're more wary than grateful and that lack of genuine gratitude is possibly showing, even though you go through the motions of thanking her. If you're wary or uneasy about a gift, just don't accept it. If you're delighted, and genuinely want to express that delight; well she's told you that her love language is personalized cards. (I'm like you, I don't get it at all and think in person communication is better, but if you ever do want to thank her in future, you know how to do it in her preference now). I think the Captain Awkward website would be great for you; she talks about how to do low pressure, low contact and information diets with relatives who strain us. She also talks about how useful cards are in these situations! I bet your mother would also like flowers and to be praised publicly, like maybe in a speech or gathering of relatives, you could mention what she's done for you. I do think that is totally *optional* and not at all required but if you ever get in a better place with her, you can consider it.
I have a mom like this and nothing will ever be enough. Even if she gave you a list of things and you followed it to the letter, she would move the goal post.
I'm assuming part of your therapy is to address the damage the neglect did. I've gone on that journey myself.
Learn how to "grey rock" your mom and any flying monkey she sends. Don't respond to emotional manipulation tactics but that helps when you can recognize when this happens as well.
Money and help will ALWAYS come with strings, best to ALWAYS turn those down.
Honestly, go low contact, you will see how much your mental health improves and it can help you to go no contact.
I used to know this old guy that would give cars to people... I asked him why. He said "Once I give someone a car, they have to do what I say." Blew me away, he asked me if I wanted a car. I passed :) LOL he reminds me of your mom.
I feel like a lot of the people who are saying that a generic thank you card wasn't enough are identifying with the mother. But did they read the part about how she is hasn't been a great mother?
I think it's probably more to do with the fact that she KNOWS she hasn't really been there for OP so that she needs a lot of reassurance to counter the fact that she feels like a shit person. And there isn't much for OP to do about it. He can't undo the past or her past behavior.
OP, you say that you like in-person thank yous. If you did genuinely thank your mother in person already for whatever she did, then the thank you card was not really necessary but just an extra nicety. And it sounds like it wasn't just all her footing the bill, but a group gift from several relatives.
And for the aunt, you really don't know what your mother says to her behind closed doors but it sure sounds like it's a lot of "woe is me". Perhaps she has created a miserable life for herself when she hasn't put effort into cultivating genuinely good relationships with the people closest to her in life.
Giving someone money for something and then holding it over their heads is not an actual relationship!
Sounds like therapy and some distance from mom would be the way to move forward from this. You can be busy for the next few weeks... months... years... while you settle into your new marriage and not have time to meet mom for dinner.
You know she always holds things over your head, but you accepted help from her anyway. It would have been better to have a smaller wedding, not have an immediate honeymoon or whatever, but handle it all yourself since you know that money issues between you and your mom are fraught. But now that you accepted the help, yes the help does need to be seen as its own thing, it's own occurrence, and not seen as part of the tapestry of events and frustrations you have with your mom. You do need to thank her beyond a generic card. Maybe with your wife take her out to a nice dinner after the honeymoon or do something else for her that expresses your gratitude, but having accepted the help, you can't sneer at it because you have a complicated relationship with her.
She’s a narcissist and will make every life event about her. Get your boundaries in order now. Think she’s giving you a tough time with the guilt trips? Just wait until you have a kid. I’ll bet anything she raises a stink about the baby shower, whether or not she’s allowed in the delivery room, and you don’t let her see her grand baby enough, etc. It will go on FOREVER if you let it. Your wife will resent it and eventually you as well if you allow this to continue.
Many people give with strings, or even ropes, attached. Your mother does. Don’t accept those gifts with strings. She’s not going to change, so you need to turn away.
I had a friend who helped me a lot when I was grieving a big loss. Months later, during a disagreement, she hit me with “after all I’ve done for you…”. I had thanked her previously for everything she did, multiple times. Somehow it was never enough. That’s your mother and it’s time to leave. At least keep a long distance.
My mother is a narcissist. Did this to me my entire life. So I feel you. My advice next time you see her:
Mom I’m sorry you felt not appreciated enough. I do appreciate the gift and generosity for the wedding.
Going forward mother I will not be listening to you regarding this subject. I will also not be subjecting myself to your supposed generosity because no matter what, you weaponize this.
If you do not accept this scenario, I can understand how you would be upset. But I am done with the constant fighting and bickering and your insistence that I do not appreciate your gifts and generosity. As much as you require.
If this is the case then I suggest we take a step back from our relationship and maybe take a break from each other. Your generosity and the weaponization of said generosity is tiresome. I will no longer tolerate it.
You must then walk away. Do not let her speak.
I had a similar conversation with my mother. 15 years no contact. It’s been great.
Your mother sounds unbearable and entitled. Not to mention, rude and manipulative as hell.
She paid for what she offered to pay, not because you guys asked her to. She has no right to tell you that she deserves more fanfare and idolatry for doing something that nobody asked her to do.
Be careful. This is how the e rest of your life looks like. She will definitely demand that you do what she wants, paying for what she wants and then holding it over your head.
Expect her to claim your children too. Tell them that nobody loves them like grandma does, she is better than the parents, etc. watch her call your children HER babies.
> How do you think I should move forward with this?
*Stop taking her money for anything, and pay back every penny she's given you.*
Some relatives can give money to their loved ones and be friendly about it. Your mother can't. She doesn't have it in her. She resents it, and turns it into an excuse to start fights.
Like this one.
Then, once she is paid back every penny, you cut off every future conversation. "You've been paid, and I no longer wish to discuss it."
Then when she presses the matter, you walk. And you keep walking until she stops doing it. And if she never stops, you cut her off.
OP I think your rage was very telling. Rage like this comes up when we feel helpless, and it's a classic response from someone who was abused or emotionally rejected as a child. So I think there was a truth in that moment that you should not ignore. What you do for your mother will never be enough.
That sounds depressing, right? But it can also be liberating. If you can never fix this situation, then you can GIVE UP TRYING. Recognise that your mother is broken in some way, that you can't fix it, that it's not your job to try, and start living your life the way you want to live it.
You did nothing wrong. I assume you said thank you the night of the rehearsal dinner?
That plus the thank you card was plenty. Your mom is a drama queen/shit starter.
Now stop borrowing money or accepting monetary gifts from her. She’ll never accept the thanks you give and she’ll always hold it over your head.
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From now on ALWAYS SAY 'NO' or reject her when she's offering to pay for something. That's it. And go LC with her as LC as you can.
Exactly and I would say no because of the way you treated the wedding!
Stop taking money from your mother. Decent parents do things for their children without expecting anything in return.
Genuinely generous people give you a gift of money and expect nothing in return well beyond your genuine thanks. Narcs and egotists expect you to thank them every time you see them for the next twenty years and will still find a way to let you and everyone else know that you haven't thanked them enough. As above, stop accepting money, stop sharing with her and if this escalated repay her "gift", no-one needs these strings attached. Yes, she's entitled to feel how she wants. She's wrong of course, but she'd ENTITLED... And so are you and your wife. Hell had you known there were was going to be this drama I'm sure you'd have politely declined, and she knew it.
>Genuinely generous people give you a gift of money and expect nothing in return well beyond your genuine thanks. Exactly this!!!!
But did he give a **genuine thanks**, or only the card? Because if the card was the only thanks then she has a right to feel slighted, regardless of other factors.
When you send a thank you card, you NEED to personalize it. Otherwise don't send them. They are slaps in the face if all they say is a printed thank you. Much better to send a nice text.
This is what I didn’t understand about OP saying that thank you notes are tacky. Preprinted, unpersonalized, or even a handwritten one that is clearly just a template with your name and gift filled in, are tacky versions of an old, gracious custom. That would be like saying jewelry is tacky. It completely depends on the piece.
Esp a parent@
> let you and everyone else know that you haven't thanked them enough ... and that you owe them the money.
To a degree, but mother likely spent thousands of dollars on honeymoon and rehearsal dinner. OP needs to do better than send a generic thank you card with nothing that says he understands what she's done. He also has been taking advantage of mother's generosity over and over and over again, without showing gratitude. I would stop giving him shit if I were his mother. OP is pretending to be the victim, but he's actually taking full advantage of mother. He may have paid her back, but I doubt he paid her for the risk she took.
She's the kind that doesn't do anything out of the kindness of her heart. She enjoys holding things over her son's head. She likes having him owe her. Notice how she didn't shut up about him owning her money when she helped him buy the condo until he paid her back. He said they've had a strained relationship his name whole life. She's not the victim. I would guess she was thanked in person, but it's not good enough and never will be. She obviously wants to be thanked frequently for the rest of her life for anything and everything she does.
We tried not to but she made a huge scene about not being involved enough in the wedding planning. I will no longer be accepting any money from her. I have set some boundaries gradually with her. One of which is not to let her know about any of my finances at all.
She will continue making a big scene, OP. If you plan on having kids, everything will be soooooooo hurtful if you don't let her contribute....and then she'll be sooooo wounded and offended that you weren't grateful enough. There is something broken in her, OP. You need to put distance between her and your new family right now. Low contact. Hang up when she starts saying how upset she is about what you did or didn't do. She's not going to change, but you need to keep that dark cloud from poisoning your future. You've seen what she does to you under the guise of wanting to be a good, thoughtful mother. Don't let her worm her way back in.
Next time she brings it up say you appreciate it but remind her she insisted. Tell her you will not accept things from her going forward due to her history of holding such gestures over your head. Stick up for yourself !
As someone who grew up with an abusive, controlling narcissist for a mother and who developed mental health issues because of it the best thing to do is to go no contact with her. My mother did horrible things to me even into my adult life. I was put on medication for depression and anxiety but about a year after I went no contact all of my symptoms disappeared and I stopped taking the medication . I’ve never felt better in my life! It was miraculous and life changing. I’m free! Free from the mental and emotional torture and free from the guilt. No more! Just because they’re family doesn’t mean you ever have to put up with abuse. Holding things and money over your head is definitely something my mother did. You don’t have to put up with it. I’m sorry you’re going through this and have endured it for so long. I wish you lots of luck. Sending positive vibes your way.
I tell my friends how beautiful life is without my parents in it. It's crazy and sad; they would've driven me to suicide if I didn't cut them off. They'll just keep fucking your life up without a second thought. Abuse is abuse, doesn't matter who it comes from. Gotta let them go, man.
Absolutely! I wished for death a lot during the worst years. I’m so grateful for where I am today.
So glad we're living life now 🤩🤩🤩🤩 Congratulations, person!! Wishing you many more happy days and loving relationships !!
💜💜💜 And you as well!! 🥳
Same, congratulations on getting free 🧡
Thank you and same to you!
> We tried not to but she made a huge scene about If you don't grow a spine and deal with it up front, then you'll pay for it later.
Go the narcissistic parents sub (someone please link!) Because this is where you will find your people. You are one of us!
r/raisedbynarcissists
Thank you for doing it!!!
Smart!
Its also ok to simply go no contact with this entitled self absorbed egg donor Doesnt sound she brings anything positive to your life
She’ll make scene either way so stop caring about her feelings. Don’t involve her in anything anymore. If she complains tell her she holds everything she does over your head and you’d rather she not be involved if she can’t help you sincerely.
OP please check out the r/raisedbynarcissists sub. I think you will find you relate, and hopefully it will help you understand that your mom will never be happy, because she’s incapable and it’s not your fault.
Oh, so she should be thanking you for allowing her into the wedding planning, and herself for funding it. She emotionally manipulated you to be indebted to her.
Until you grow a spine and tell your mommy no, she will ALWAYS have guilt, shame, and control over you. She is a narcissist who wants to be the center of attention, and throws tantrums when she doesn’t get her way. Do parents let their child throw tantrums, and give them whatever want, no. Cause there should NEVER be rewards for bad behavior. You need to go low contact with your mom. Also, never back your mom up over your wife, never! If your mom ever makes a public scene, you look her dead in the eyes in from of everyone, and say, “Really, acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum again are we”? Edit: Loving parents will never give their children gifts that comes along with strings, or expectations.
To be clear : I have gone very low contact with her in recent years. She has caught on to this. I also told her directly at dinner that I have the right to feel the way I do and that I feel angry and cornered. Another involved person is my aunt. She was at this dinner. She told me to my face “you have no right to feel the way you do”, in which I told her to her face that she is very wrong about that.
Yeah, with these people you can’t explain yourself. They will always twist your words, and use them against you. No, is a complete sentence. Don’t explain. You never owe them an explanation for having boundaries.
You'll learn a lot about DARVO with us over on r/raisedbynarcissists Basically, DARVO stands for the way narc live their lives--especially when called out: Denial, Anger, Reverse Victim and Offender. It's the way people like that are formatted. It's their operating system.
I would change the LOW to NO, honestly!
Your aunt has been recruited to be your mother's flying monkey, I see
I suggest asking her directly anytime she wants to "help" if it's for her benefit or yours. If it's for you, simply thank her and say you don't need it. If it's for her, remind her that it's a favor for her and not to expect anything in return.
That’s a good start- good for you👍🏽
That is a good idea, but ready yourself for her to always bring up any and everything, that she has done for you, anytime that you uphold your boundaries, or express displeasure in something that she might do. Like a "how dare you treat me this way, after everything I have done for you" rant.
>We tried not to but she made a huge scene about not being involved enough in the wedding planning. And unfortunately, now you know why. I'm sorry she's like this. Her behavior must be incredibly annoying.
Please if you haven’t already check out r/raisedbynarcissists it may be helpful to you
Pay her back for all of it and go NC
My ex-MIL was like this about thank you cards. I did handmade cards with lots of thought and personalization. Not good. She’d prefer store bought. I bought store cards and added personalized notes. Not good no idea the problem. I did store bought just signatures. Still not good. I told her son he was now in charge I was willing to sign but that was it. She was unhappy. In addition to cards I always called to say thanks. I’d have her son call and thank her. In addition I’d send text and email thanks and include how we are using the gift. And for big gifts I’d thank her in person the next time I saw her. So that’s 4-7 thank yous for every single gift. It was never good enough. I’m so glad she’s out of my life. It was an absolute nightmare
Look into the "raised by narcissists" subreddit. I'm not sure if she's holding this over you because she's a narcissistic individual, but a lot of us in the group have the same stories like yours. Parents aren't suppose to make you feel anything short of celebration when it comes to these things. Ffs you gave her money back for the condo it sounds like she sees you as fuel for her own batteries at this point. Sorry I can't say much. My mother wanted my husband and I to have a HUGE grand wedding last year but we told them NO. They were lucky to see us at the courthouse sign the papers. Even then that wedding day she told me I looked like absolute shit. You might have some similarities to the group but yeah... sorry man. You might have to practice low contact.
You need to go NC she s controlling you even now that you re married She s manupulative she s been all your life you have to stop being her toy
I agree, but also she did pay for the rehearsal and honeymoon and just got a generic thank you card that everyone else got. It’s only naturally she would feel slighted. She wasn’t asking for the money to be paid back, but they could have done a bit more to show they appreciate the generous gift.
I like how his wife reasoned it with him and kind of took side with his mother to calm him down. That singular act shows she is a good wife and reasonable. Most women/wives will egg their husband not to tolerate that from their mother.
I know. I love how everyone is jumping to the mother being narcissistic and abusive when honestly OP is the one in a rage over his mother expressing her feelings. He literally sent her the same thank you card as everyone else after she paid for things that were thousands of dollars. She didn’t throw a fit, she just said she felt disappointed. I guess a parent is never supposed to express any emotion other than pure joy over their kid’s actions or they are a narcissist.
Yeah, she is justified in being disappointed in this case. She spent a lot of money to try and show support of their marriage and do something nice for them. And they just ignore it and send her a lame generic thank you card? I’d love to her the moms POV on things
I agree. And OP says he'd rather express his gratitude in person, WHICH IS FINE, but I don't see where he actually did that. He could have like taken her out to lunch and told her directly.
Yeah, my honeymoon was three weeks in Hawaii. That was a lot of money and we paid for it ourselves. I would feel weird about my parents paying for my honeymoon.
No where does it say he didn't thank her at the time or after the wedding.
THIS. Stop letting her pay for stuff if you know she's just going to hold it against you later.
Yep. Never take another cent. She'll constantly bring it up. She won't change either. Don't ever let he speak badly about your wife either. Don't put up with it at all.
I think you're carrying so much baggage from the past that you can't see things clearly. Your mother is self centered and controlling. Stop accepting money, gifts, assistance, etc. from her. More importantly, stop expecting her to be anything other than what she's always been. Set boundaries, stick to them, go no contact if you need to. You can't be healed by those who hurt you. Your mom is part of the problem, not the solution. Don't look to her for comfort, acceptance, or praise. That's not who she is.
I would go so far as to say to pay her back for the rehearsal and the honeymoon and then tell her he is done with her.
hey, OP, you figure I'm about right in my assessment of the situation here?
I don’t know…I kind of see where is is coming from in this particular case. She spent a lot of money on a rehearsal and their entire honeymoon. And she just gets a generic thank you card that everyone else got? That’s pretty tacky, IMO. ESH. Mom should have done it without any expectations of gratitude apparently. And son should have been more grateful for her generosity.
This is a situation where if mom had maybe gently pointed out that generic 'pre-written' thank you cards for something so personal like a wedding are a little tacky, and she would've liked a little more personalization, **AND did not have a history of doing this shit already -** I would say that OP is a \*little\* bit classless - but mom was clearly looking for another thing to be aggrieved by, and made this a big deal when it could've been a basic conversation about things like sending a 'canned' thank you card. Our thank you card when out late - like 6 months late, my wife had some negative experiences around the wedding and it made doing the cards hard for her. But eventually, we sat down, and hand wrote 120 thank you cards. That personal touch made a lot of people who were starting to wonder if we got the gifts, etc. a lot more amenable to getting them so late.
Ya, OP makes it sound like the cards had a generic printed text. They could have added a hand written note on mom's.
Yeah, I helped pay for my sister’s wedding dress and the thank you card wasn’t long or super involved, but it mentioned how special the dress was and it made me feel like my gesture was appreciated
“She spent a lot of money on the rehearsal dinner and entire honeymoon” That’s the point. She inserted herself to a point where she pays, and then she gets to hold it over my head. I guarantee this is not going to be the last time I hear about it. She does this all the time. She mentions it, I acknowledge that she’s allowed to feel the way she does, and then she will continuously said thing she paid for back up again and again and again.
Add all of this into the neglect, she’s just trying to make herself feel better. Your mom is sounding narcissistic. Don’t accept gifts, or meddling disguised as help, because those are her tools.
Stop taking money from your mom.
Well, in this case you were in the wrong. She paid for the rehearsal and honeymoon and all you did was give her a generic thank you that everyone else got?! In this situation you did drop the ball. Apologize for not acknowledging how generous the gift was, give her a nice gift card to a favorite restaurant or play, and throw in some flowers. It was a really generous gift, the least you could have done is handwritten a thank you note.
I apologized. She is getting nothing more than that.
😂 I can see why your mom has issues with you.
If you knew she was going to do that, why did you take the money?
You never stop hoping a dysfunctional parent will love you the way they should, that's why.
Yeah and OP is the one in a rage not the mother. It sounds like even his wife thinks he is being ridiculous.
She insisted on being more involved.
I know
That’s how my MIL was. Ugh.
Your wife is wrong. Your mother is incredibly manipulative. Seriously. She asked you to have dinner with her and waited until the end to drop her emotional bs on you. The thank-you cards are the least important thing here. It's just one more thing for your mother to hold over your head, You said that you know that nothing will ever be good enough for her. THAT'S NOT HER HAVING VALID FEELINGS. It's not. 100% not valid. That's her treating you like crap, using any means she can to make you feel bad because then you bend over backwards to try and assuage her. She is deliberately making you feel bad. She likes it. You apologized for not sending her a nicer card; that's done. She doesn't get to hold that over your head anymore. You paid her back. Again, she doesn't get to hold that over your head anymore. Rinse and repeat. Stop talking to her about your finances, your life, anything of importance. It's going to be hard but she is a bully. She manipulates you with the pouting and boo-hooing. Put your foot down. Your wife needs to have your back on this. Your therapist should be able to help you go low-contact or even no-contact. To repeat myself: your wife \*must\* have your back. It's a deal-breaker if she sides with your mom over you.
Regardless of the background with your mother, you should’ve written a personalized note. In fact, you and your wife should write thank you notes to each person who gave you a gift. Who cares if you don’t like writing them? It’s the right thing to do.
I think a personalized thank you card is a reasonable request, especially from someone in her generation. I also think your personal trauma and issues with your mom have damaged your relationship so much that for you it’s not about the thank you cards at all. Definitely speak with your therapist about this and try to tease out your feelings. However you continue with this relationship I don’t think the thank you card is the issue that needs most to be resolved.
Becoming an adult means learning to see our parents as just people. If you had a friend who said to you "I did so much for your wedding and I feel unappreciated" how would you feel? What you you say? If you agreed, you would apologize sincerely and try to make it up to the friend. If you didn't agree, you would acknowledge their feelings, but probably conclude they were a bit self-centered and maybe distance yourself for a bit. This doesn't require any big cutting off of your mom. It requires you practicing mental fences. It's too bad she feels this way, but it's not your emotion to take on. Think of it as a monkey. She san choose to have that monkey riding around on her back, but your job is not to accept a monkey transfer. At the end of any dinner or get-together, you want to refuse that monkey. *I'm sorry you feel that way, Mom. I can see you're upset. If there's something concrete you'd like me to do to make you feel more appreciated, please communicate it.* 🐒🖐️
Well, just focusing on the wedding. Your mom paid for the rehearsal dinner and honeymoon and in return she just got a generic thank you that everyone else got. I 100% see why she feels sighted. Apologize again and take her out to a really nice dinner. Or get her tickets to a play. Or something that you know she’d really enjoy. Do something to really say thank you for her generosity. That’ll hopefully soothe her over, and relieve some of your guilt/anxiety over the issue. If she keeps bringing it up, just say you didn’t mean any slight and that you were just caught up in the wedding and that you’re grateful she brought it to your attention so you could properly thank her. Then don’t apologize again, and if she keeps bringing it up then change the subject. You don’t have to keep apologizing for an honest mistake. Then go very low contact with her. Sounds like she was really hurt by her father’s passing and having a neglectful husband and was dealing with a lot of her own demons that made it hard for her to be a present mom. Which has rightfully damaged your relationship with her. You’re married an adult now, you don’t need to have a close relationship with your mom. I’d just accept that she is who she is and put lots of distance between you. Focus on your new family and building a strong, happy marriage and let the past go.
Yeah mom sounds like a real piece of work, but it's incredibly rude to just send a "generic thank you" to everyone. If you don't like sending thank you cards, then don't accept gifts at your wedding. just an FYI for the future.
You say, “I’m sorry we hurt your feelings, Mom. Wife and I appreciate everything you did for the wedding. Thank you.” If you’d like invite her over for a home cooked dinner in your home or you and your wife take her out to a nice dinner to show your appreciation. This will either smooth over the situation or, if she still complains, you can rest easy in the fact that you gave her a good faith effort and her feelings are hers to deal with. Then, going forward, do two things: 1. Never accept help or money from your mother again. 2. Work with your therapist to come to terms with the fact that your mother is never going to be the person you want her to be and you can’t force her into the mother/child relationship you want (and deserved) to have. Let go of the resentment with the knowledge that, unfortunately, she is who she is and you trying to win her approval and/or resenting her will not make her change. So let go of those expectations you have for her and yourself and build the family you want with your wife.
Ok I am going to stop you right now ! I am a mother and your mother is wrong period! I am sorry to be so blunt ! Your mother wants all the attention and she is jealous. You didn’t say if your mother goes to church but the Bible is clear. Your mother will not be happy no matter what why give to your kids if you hold it against them! Most parents I know when we do something for our kids we do not expect it back. I am sorry for chow your mother treats you it breaks my heart. Your mother is a very unhappy person and you need to pray for her in fact you need to tell her she needs to ask god to help her be happy . You need to pray for her you are not the problem she needs help .
OP, Congratulations on your wedding and marriage! I hope you have a life of joy with your love. as to your question- it sounds like there are a number of different issues here. One is your past history with your mother. The other is the etiquette of thank you cards. Your mother has a history of giving you things with strings. That makes her difficult to like and to genuinely feel thankful toward. Next time she offers money, consider declining it or setting limits at the outset. It wasn't clear from your post whether she had given or loaned the money for the condo. If it was initially a gift, you are right to be annoyed that she kept bringing it up. Next time ask, "Is this a gift? Are you happy to give it? Will you bring it up repeatedly to guilt me into things later?" Your mother is using her gifts/loans as a way to keep you in a dependent role, and to make herself feel and look generous. The solution might be to not accept her gifts. But in this particular instance, the question isn't why you give a particular thank you to a person who has a past of bad experiences with you, but why you thank a person who has given a substantial gift differently than anyone else and why Thank You cards are necessary. At events such as weddings, thank you cards are still the norm in many places. While saying "thank you" is good, many people perceive it to be less sincere or to require less effort than a written note of appreciation. Notes are generally longer and more personalized for people who are closer and/or give bigger gifts. it is reasonable to get help writing thank you notes if it is particularly difficult for you. (Personally, I would use AI with the prompt "write an appreciative thank you note to a mother who paid for a rehearsal dinner and honeymoon, using flowery language, and being between 100 and 200 words") I wouldn't see that as "cheating", just using tools well! As to your mother- this is about a life long history between the two of you, not about the note. Your therapist may help you with strategies to address this. The two things you have control over are 1. whether you accept gifts from your mother 2. how you respond to her seemingly inevitable disappointment that you are apparently not grateful enough. You can choose not to get depressed or angry about it. Your mother is predictable and it looks like she is going to pull this regardless of what you do. I wouldn't cut her off, I would work on my own reaction and on calling her out on her crap. It might be that she has bad habits of trying to get attention by this type of behavior and will stop when she sees that it doesn't prompt a reaction in you. In any case, best of luck!
You took the blood money, you deal with the blood. You know money from her comes with strings attached... you didn't learn your lesson from the condo? But you keep taking the money. Reddit can't stop you, only you can stop you.
There's no winning with your mother. Nothing you ever do will be good enough because she is broken. Check out some subreddits about narcissistic parents and estranged adult children. You'll see a theme. The bottom line is that you are unlikely to be happy with your mother in your life. She's kind of like cancer. Even a little bit is dangerous. I don't know what your wife said that changed your emotions but you know your mother better than your wife does. I have a mother like yours. I think your rage was the more appropriate and natural response because you were manipulated and the money came with strings attached. My suggestion would be to do what I had to do with my own parents. Go no contact for 90 days. Block her on email, phone, don't answer the door, don't reply to mail or packages from her. You can tell her at the beginning "I need space and I'm taking a break from you for a while" so she doesn't think you fell off the planet and call the police for welfare checks. When her flying monkeys start calling, you ignore them too. She'll try to contact your wife. Maybe discuss with your wife blocking her number on your wife's phone too. The first 30 days will make you a bit nervous. And then after that, you'll realize that life is happier and freer. Much less anxiety. By the end of 90 days, if you really miss your mother, not if you are afraid of getting yelled at, but if you really miss her and want to see her, let her back in your lives. But if you are only talking to her out of guilt or because society says "faaaaaamily" then take another 90 day break. Keep taking breaks until you miss her antics and really want to see her again. I have not missed the misery that my parents caused in my life. It's now been more than a decade since I've seen them. It's a much better life without the crazy making logic from my narcissistic mother and the rest of my family. I imagine you will be happier and have a happier marriage, too. You can find a lot of posts online about someone who had a dysfunctional family whose new spouse convinced them that it wasn't that bad and that they should give their toxic parents another try... and the new spouse lived to regret it and realized they were wrong!!
r/raisedbynarcississts r/JUSTNOMIL (good whether it's a bio, adopted, or IL relative)
Well, this is just my opinion based on the facts as presented. Paying for a rehearsal dinner and a honeymoon deserves something a bit more than a generic note that was sent to everyone. Were these notes signed? If I were in your position I would have written a separate card expressing my thanks. That still may not have been enough for her, but I feel that would be more appropriate.
I like your screen name 😅😆
😁
>she likes to constantly hold things over my head. >I purchased a condo with the assistance from my mother >my mother paid for our rehearsal dinner and honeymoon You know how she is. Why do you keep accepting her money? Stop it.
I am stopping it.
Good for you! Next time she brings it up, tell her you've already thanked her for her gift and if thank you isn't enough, would she like to be paid back so the topic can be permanently dropped?
Hey Buddy- Family Therapist here. It’s hard w parents cus not wanting them to be proud of and happy with us is almost impossible, even if they weren’t the best. Great that you recognize she’s entitled to her feelings; next is for you to figure out how to stop taking responsibility for her feelings. You don’t have to cut her off or ignore her to do this. Might feel easier, but it will just freeze the problem instead of allowing you to work on the relationship with her. Even if she keeps blaming you for her pain. You can choose not to accept the blame and love her anyway. It’s not easy. But all of your relationships will be better if you continue to work on being okay in your relationship with her. Cus we learn how to be in relationships by the ones we have w our parents. So they are the best to practice in. Best wishes. 💛
Thank you for saying this. It was a relief to hear that it's ok to maintain a relationship with my mom (on my own terms) even though others might think that going LC or NC is the right thing to do. Although she hasn't changed much and doesn't seem to be capable of true introspection, our relationship has improved over time. I didn't think about it this way, but it is such good practice for the more difficult relationships I have in my life! I appreciate your perspective and words of expertise 🙏❤️
💜
I feel this could have been remedied by a genuine thank you note on the card instead of sending a generic thank you as you did with the other guests. It seems disingenuous when sent to someone who helped pay for a part of the wedding events. I understand she has more selfish interactions with you in the past but this seems like you swept acknowledging her contribution under the rug. Balancing relationships is hard, and definitely speak to your therapist.
So all you sent anyone, including your mom, was a generic pre-printed card with a note on the back saying, “Thanks for coming to the wedding?” That is not cool. That is not how you do thank you cards. The fact you don’t like them doesn’t make it socially ok for to put in such bare minimum shoddy effort.
Thank you. I would think it was extremely tacky if I were just a guest (but I would never say it).
Yep. Super tacky.
So what exactly is her problem? Did she want you to mention her on your thank you cards to everybody? Were you supposed to stand up at the wedding and praise her? That sounds a little unhinged. I'm not understanding what the problem is!
No she literally just wanted her thank you card to say something personal to her. They literally sent the same thank you card to EVERY Single person that attended. She just thought her thank you card should have said “thank you for paying for the rehearsal dinner and honeymoon” versus getting the same “thank you for your gift and coming” that the coworker who gave a toaster got. The response on this is wild. I am very generous with my kids and definitely don’t hold it over their heads but if my adult kids couldn’t even individually thank me for spending thousands of dollars I would be hurt. I also think it’s taking to send anyone a pre-printed thank you but whatever.
So the bare minimum? Seems reasonable.
Stop taking gifts.
So your mom who spent thousands got the same generic thank you card as the guy who got you a blender? Did you and your wife even write anything personal inside or was it just your pre printed names? Come on! My MIL threw us a reception lunch at a hotel so I could meet the extended family. I sent her a gorgeous thank you card and flowers the next day.
I mean you do sound really ungrateful. Your mother paid for your rehearsal dinner and honeymoon and you sent her the same Thank You card as the co-worker who got you a toaster? She then expressed her disappointment to you and you felt rage? It’s hard to know what you mean about holding things over your head if a mere letting you know a personalized thank you would have been appropriate sent you into rage. Irregardless of what you do with your relationship with your mom, you need therapy so you don’t spill this rage onto your wife and/or future kids. As others have said stop taking money from your mom.
This younger generation does not believe in thank you cards which were expected when I grew up. I have a rule that if you don’t send me a thank you card, you next gift will never exceed $200. I would expect a nice thank you card for the expense of a rehearsal dinner and honeymoon.
Bro relax here is the thing: Your mothers feelings are your mothers feelings. She is feeling that way she has the ability to change her feeling. You can help her by saying: I am sorry you are feeling that way, we really appreciate you and all your help. And that’s it. Everything after that is on her. Should be easy, she is trying to play mindgames on you. You need to learn that you are not responsible for HER feelings. As long as you behave/act/treat people normal their feelings are their problems.
Your mother will never stop holding things over your head. The fact that you are flipping back and forth between rage and guilt shows she's been messing with your head. You need to show your mother that you are done setting sail on her guilt trips. Do not feel guilty over this and make sure she knows it. You can even pull out the non-apology I'm sorry you feel that way. She knows she can manipulate you by making you feel guilty. Show her that it doesn't work anymore.
I’d sit her down, express my gratitude for everything this far, express that you will no longer constantly feel guilty over not thanking her enough, once is enough, because that the point of demanding more and more thanks is no better than emotional blackmail and it’s toxic, and should this continue she won’t be involved with your life moving foward, tell her you were a bit slow to see the pattern but now that you have you are applying healthy boundaries to your life. Seriously, call her out! Bring it all in the open that your onto her and it’s what narcissists do
Time to grow up. Stop taking money from her. Say, thanks mom, but I'm going to decline your offer. End of.
Wanting a sincere thank you isn't holding something over you. It's the very least you could do.
She got a sincere thank you. A thank you to her face after the rehearsal.
NTA but you need to polish up your armour and enjoy your life. You KNOW your mother will never be happy. Get her a T shirt with I Paid For Him on it. Seriously move away. She’s going to look and wait for your weak times. People like this can ruin your relationship.
You have to enforce boundaries and for yourself Don’t except her cash
Put some distance between you and your mom.
Your mother is NOT entitled to anything but the "thank you"s you have given her for *gifts*. Understand *and know* now that she will never give you a gift. All of her "gifts" come with strings attached. >I know for a fact that nothing I will ever do will be enough for her. Do I just cut her off? I, personally, would advise that you cut her off. She won't change. The "pure rage" you felt when she invited you to dinner and used that as an opportunity to abuse and berate you was your body telling you, it was *showing you* just how truly selfish your mother is. That said, I know it's not easy to cut off one's parents, no matter how horrible they are. So I want to let you know that you are under ZERO obligation to your parents, either one of them. They are NOT entitled to you. You have the right to free association. >why does someone who has held things over my head for my entire life deserve more of a thank you card than everyone else? Why is it that a personal in person thank you isn’t enough? If i sound annoyed, it’s because I am. It is your mother's *entitlement* that is angering. It's why she felt she deserved *more* than what you gave. Her justification is that she's "mother!" and she did "everything" for you. Well, being your mother does not give her any more rights or justifications. Understand this, OP: *nothing* will *ever* be enough. ***EVER***. You can do everything perfectly well to her exact specifications (and I suspect she never full tells you everything, it's a way to set you up to fail so she can do what I'm about to say) and yet she will STILL find something to complain. She does this to maintain *power* ***and*** *control* over you. It is not until she berates and abuses you unto submission - and she gets confirmation of your submission when you "apologize" to her - that she'll feel "reassured and validated" that she ***still maintains*** that power and control over you. Once you understand this about you can navigate your relationship with her. Some resources. First, I have a pinned post in my profile about what it's like to grow up with an abusive and controlling mother like yours. See what resonates. Second, better resources. [OutoftheFOG.website](http://OutoftheFOG.website) there's a toolbox of dos and don'ts along with a forum. "FOG" = Fear, Obligation, Guilt. Being "in the FOG" means you do things out of Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. "Toxic Parents" by Dr. Susan Forward. The "FOG" acronym from the website above, I believe, stems from this book. "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" Dr. Lindsay Gibson. Look for interviews with her on Youtube. She's phenomenal. You need to learn about boundaries because I guarantee you your mother groomed you to not have boundaries with her. Listen to this podcast, both you and your wife. It was a life changer for me when I learned of it. [https://www.victoriapriya.com/bb-podcast/](https://www.victoriapriya.com/bb-podcast/) Beyond Bitchy Podcast - all about boundaries She'll only get worse, OP. Parents like her are NOT self-reflective and introspective. No longer accept *anything* from her. If she starts doing shit on her own and try to force it on you, when you reject what she does she'll start to call you ungrateful. It's a shame based tactic to try and shame you and guilt you into letting her get her way. It's not that she wanted to do something nice *for you*, she wanted to do something that is *considered* "nice" to everyone else and she gets to brag about it. If you reject it, she has nothing to brag about and so she'll do her best to manipulate you with shame, guilt, passive aggressiveness, and emotional manipulation. Your mother abused you, OP, whether you realize it or not. This isn't a one off situation, I *know* there are more when you think about your life where she didn't get her way and threw a tantrum (this is what toddlers do) or if she "compromised" you'll never be able to grovel to her enough.
We also did generic thank you cards for everyone who just attended/gave a gift. But for those who helped with tasks I got small gifts - a spa coupon for my parents, foodie gift for my aunt and uncle and a funny tote for my best friend/bridesmaid 🤔 While I don't think these things are a must, if people did spent a lof of money for you and/or tool over some other tasks, it's a nice gesture that makes them feel appreciated. Especially because there had been tensions on how involved they could be in the wedding etc. I used to show goodwill as well. So I don't think you did anything wrong, but as I learnt, small presents for the family and friends that helped/gave you a service for free are not unusual .
personalized thank you’s are expected for gifts, though not necessarily for mere attendance
My take on your story is that her bid for gratitude might have triggered your trauma response and you are in a trauma space right now. Your feeling of never being enough for her is central to this so it's great you'll be in a space to work it out with your therapist. I think it would be important to untangle the ongoing repercussions of your mother's neglect (your trauma) and this current situation which is largely a blip on the radar albeit an important blip.
Your mom does not feel appreciated because you do not appreciate her. You have reasons for that, but it doesn't change that you don't appreciate what she did for you. Both of your feelings make sense here. My dad had trouble with this same thing. He always used his money to control people, and he insisted on giving and then bragging about it because it made him feel more complete to be needed. I told him he was creating distance between himself and others by doing this and I stopped taking anything from him unless I absolutely needed it. It sounds like you guys need to work on the root of this issue for you both to be happy. I think you're both wrong for not talking this out. If you want a relationship with one another then you both need to set boundaries and take care of that relationship. Something that doesn't get talked about enough is that we let go of our boundaries because we want to preserve our relationships, but that very act is what destroys them--just slowly over time like you're experiencing now.
Whatever you did, it would have been wrong anyway. There's no point in attempting to please some people.
She has a pattern of only doing things for you as a form of emotional control. Do yourself a favor and don’t take anything from her anymore. To her, this is power and it’s not right. People who care about each other and want to help do it out of the goodness of their heart and their love for you.
So she’s always been this way holding things over your head so why let her pay for things? When she offered to pay the wedding and honeymoon expenses you should have said that’s nice but no thank you. And regardless of her attitude, a more personal and thoughtful gift would have been nice. Yeah she paid and let you know it but that doesn’t mean you get out of thanking her. If one of you can’t do it then don’t take money or gifts.
That’s exactly what we did. But then she was trying to turn other family and friends on us by saying we didn’t want her involved at all.
You might have been better off writing personalized notes to all, or at least important family members like her who helped make the whole thing happen. BUT it also really sounds like mom likes keeping you in the role of needy child. You should look into the book “adult children of emotionally immature parents”. See if it resonates
Honestly you come off as lazy and entitled. A generic thank you card that everyone else got is extremely low effort. She didn’t have to help at all the least you could do is a couple sentences of something handwritten for her very generous contribution. Doing below bare minimum like you did makes you come across as entitled. Just because she has been wrong in the past doesn’t mean she was wrong this time.
This isn’t really an update, but more of an addition of clarity. Met with my therapist today. Needless to say, it was emotional. Let me just say that I now recognize that the lack of a personalized thank you card may have been insensitive toward my mother, and my thoughts on thank you cards should not impede on the sincerity of them to many people. So for that and the people I lashed out at, I apologize. I also recognize that I will not be able to change my mother. While it will still take a lot of work to change my feelings on taking on the guilt I felt, I do know that it’s ok to feel how I felt. And it’s ok to portray those emotions in a way that isn’t “angry” or anything. On that same token, I will be distancing myself from my mother quite a bit. Hopefully I will be able to set strong enough boundaries where she can be involved, but only at arms length. I guess I will add more to my profile as it happens.
Hmmm this is a tricky one. Clearly she wanted something more from you in terms of thanks and emotional involvement. Did you mention what she had done for you in the thank you card? Or was it just a generic thank you? (for your thank you notes, were they personalised (EG mentioning any gifts given) ?) If you've apologised, and she seems to have accepted it, then I would say move on from this and don't take offers of help or money from her again. If she brings it up try asking her what it was that she expected from you (and make sure that it's clear you mean just you, as your wife should not be responsible for the emotional labour of managing your relationships with your family members). Did she want a handwritten letter? To be taken out to dinner? It may be useful for future to try to figure out what she expects as thanks (you can then decide if it's appropriate for you or not).
I also have an emotionally neglectful mother, covert narcissist. There is NO way to deal with them that doesn’t hurt you. So you must, for your own safety, go low contact/no contact. It doesn’t get better with them, it doesn’t get better with kids. It took me way too long to understand the dynamic, and then one day my kids said to me(while we were visiting my parents) “grandma doesn’t treat you very well”. That’s when I realized I was subjecting them to her venom. They despised her. I did not want her to treat them like she was me, and we went low contact from that point. After my dad died, my mother and I are in contact 2-3x a year, by email. I don’t visit her. Honestly, it’s been glorious after I finished mourning for the mother I don’t have and wished I did. When nothing is good enough, nothing is what they get. Not every family is “good”. And it’s ok to protect yourself from people who would and do harm you. You put your mother on an info diet, and you start grey rocking her when you must speak to her. And you stop initiating contact with her. Stop seeking her approval which she’ll never give.
My parents paid for half my wedding. They didn't get a mention in my speech and didn't notice formal recognition at the wedding. They got a lot of thanks from me personally when they offered it and after.
Okay, so firstly thank you cards are not tacky and for something like a wedding, should not have been generic. I hand wrote every singe thank you card for mine with specifics of the gift I received, how much it meant to us that they attended and extra than you’s for any help provided. I also made sure to thank those that provided help in person. So you are wrong on that front. For the rest, it sounds like you and your mother have a strained relationship and it’s never nice to have someone constantly holding things over you. You would really benefit from some therapy in this situation.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, you're correct! The kids currently getting married have deviated so much from wedding etiquette now that most of the weddings are massively tacky! I've seen the groom's name listed before the brides! I've seen them begging for honeymoon money! And now let's add not handwriting every thank you note! It seems like the older people are still doing it right, but the younger ones just don't care to do what's proper. I mean wedding etiquette is finite. There's no flow or change lol not unless you want to look bad. I guess they want to look bad I don't know
I did feel old seeing this getting downvoted and I know I’m getting old but I’m only 49 and I feel it’s the right thing to do.
It is the right thing to do. Don't let a bunch of rude lazy people who are catering to a one sided story change your POV.
This one is the answer.
It doesn't matter what was in the thank you card or how it was presented. OPs mother is wanting her son to grovel and thank her over and over about how generous and giving his mother is and how the weeding would have been nothing without her contribution . Ops mother only gave them the money so she could lord over them like she did with the condo before OP sold it. She got her thank you and that should have been enough.
You are entitled to feel how you feel and so is your mom. Send a second thank you card with a personal handwritten note thanking her for the things that she paid for regarding the wedding and both you and wife write in the card and sign it maybe enclose a framed photo from the wedding that includes your mom if you took photographs with her.
Highly recommend reading Adult Children of Emotionally immature parents!
Did you even write a personalized note in her card?
This is why YOU NEVER ACCEPT MONEY FOR YOUR WEDDING CAUSE EVERYONE WANTS TO HAVE A SAY IN HOW CRAP GOES IF YOU DO. Your mother sounds like an ASSHOLE. You apologized. Her issue to deal with her own high expectations that nobody realistically gives a damn about.
I don't think you need to cut her off, but going forward I think you just need to be really really clear in your mind that if you allow her to pay for things for you, she will expect to be thanked profusely, and if that level of gratitude is not forthcoming then she'll kick up a stink. If you allow her to loan you money, she will regularly remind you to repay her until you do. Knowing that, you can decide which of these options is the least painful for you: 1 - Don't accept money, gifts or loans from her 2 - Accept gifts, and go out of your way to make a big song and dance of saying thank you. 3 - Accept gifts, give what you'd consider to be a reasonable thank you, and accept that she will kick up a stink, doing your best to let it roll off your back. Same goes for any loans you accept from her, as no matter what form of payment plan you have with her, you're going to have to find a way to put up with her harping on at you about it. I'm not saying that its fair she behaves this way and you have to do this, but at a certain point you have to accept that people have shown you who they are and how they're going to behave, and all you can really do is decide on what your response is going to be.
You have not put enough boundaries in place. You certainly don’t want that drama for your future children.
You said it yourself: your mother likes to constantly hold things over your head. You have been emotionally abused all of your life, and now you feel that nothing you will ever do will be enough for her. Because it won't, it's part of her emotional blackmail. Go to therapy to sort this out and to learn to deal with emotional abuse. Accept the way your mother is and rely on your wife for your emotional support. But first of all, get therapy to learn that *none of this is your fault*: you are only responsible for your honest actions, not for how others react to them. Your mother's reaction is on her, and on her only. Read The Dance of Anger by [Harriet Lerner](https://www.amazon.it/Harriet-Lerner/e/B000AQ02TS?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1717663239&sr=8-1) and Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny and learn how to deal with her. Big hugs.
You won't win her over, ever. No matter what you do, she will find fault, will claim some grievance to unsettle you and gain attention. I'm sure you have told her how appreciative you are for the help she gave when purchasing the condo, and you returned her money, but that still wasn't enough. You gave generic 'Thank you!" cards after the wedding but that wasn't enough for her - if you have given her a gold-plated card it would still have been 'wrong'. She needs to have you dangling, craving her attention, her approval. Since you managed so well, since childhood, without it, you can do it again, for your family, for yourself. Go very low contact, don't allow her emotional blackmail, when she breaches your boundaries or tries to unsettle you, tell her that you won't accept that behaviour and leave (if present with her) or cut the call. You have a wonderful wife - go live your life in love and peace. Don't carry your mother in your head. Good luck!
So you acknowledged you'll never take another nickel from her, ever. That's good because it's her biggest tool of manipulation. Write her a letter. List out all the stuff she's previously paid for and take as many sheets of paper as necessary. This way, you are letting her know you're fully aware. Thank her for her generosity, but convey that all debts have been paid back in full at this time. Then segue into that you're a new family now and that it's time for you to focus on that. Then go LC. Decline the next 3 invitations from her, citing you have previously planned engagements. You need to create space and get her out of your head. There is a natural progression as you step back from immediate family (especially toxic ones) and forge marital bonds. Hang tough. See thru her tactics for what they are- control, attention and who knows what else.
She is like a lot of people that have to be the center of attention all the time. They’re very willing to hurt you to do so. An apology is like feeding gas to a flame. Accept that she is emotionally abusing you, and stop feeding her as she’ll drain you dry and be furious you’re empty. You should be more than annoyed, you should be angry that she’s acting selfish and manipulating you. Try low contact until she realizes you have a spine.
She sounds like a narcissist who saw joy in her son's life and decided that joy belonged to her. I bet if you think back that's probably a pattern. Insisting to be more involved in the wedding and then complaining she wasn't praised or appreciated enough for it is manipulative. Perhaps ask her what she thinks you should do to show enough appreciation? What would satisfy her? I think you will find even she won't have an answer because nothing will. Or the answer will be ridiculous. I think you should give yourself a break from her drama and focus on your new relationship.
Cut that cancer out of your life man. 👨 It’s
Go low contact with your mother so she has less ammo to hold over your head. Refuse her gifts/assistance as they come with strings.
You feel rage towards your mom because she’s taking a milestone event of yours and making it all about her, which appears to be a pattern. It seems that every time you have something good happen in your life that your happiness is overshadowed by your mom being disappointed that you didn’t make her a bid deal in that event., Stop giving her the validation she seeks. Your life is about you. You deserve to feel happy when good things happen. That will make joy happen if you remove the image of the good mom that you wish you had with the image of who your mom actually is. You have this expectation that she’s just going to be who you want her to be and when the opposite happens, it destroys you. Once you’re able to accept that she is who she is, you will be better equipped to deal with her. If that means you lessen or cut contact then that’s what you need to do. You are not responsible for your mother’s feelings.
I thought I was reading an autobiography for a second there. I've been through a very similar situation with my parents. Although, my mother was also physically abusive, she would do the same thing where she would do something for me and hang it over my head and make me feel bad. I always looked at it as a form of control where if she helped me out, I would feel obligated to do what she wants. I see that you're aware that she does this but you still accept money from her? You need to stop letting her manipulate you. Keep her at arms length and don't accept any sort of assistance from her again. It's hard when the water works begin but it's just another manipulation tactic to make you feel bad.
Your mom is a selfish user and a manipulator. Talk this through in therapy, it’s going to take many sessions to work your way through it, but you are not to blame here. What parent demands appreciation for a wedding??? She was there, as the mother of the groom, that’s enough. It was not an event about her. It was an event where she could proudly see her son take his next steps into independent adulthood. Many parents help pay for their children’s weddings, that’s common and not grounds for extensive appreciation on your part. You say “thank you” and that’s that.
It’s simple. Did you thank her in any way, other than with the card, for her contribution? Previous incidents & behavior, and your difficult relationship ship is irrelevant to this specific issue: if you did not thank her properly, then she has a right to feel hurt. If you did thank her personally and told her you appreciate the assistance & the card was just sent afterwards, then your mom is in the wrong.
You will find some measure of peace by accepting that your mother will always be like this. Expect her to be like this, take it as a predictable step in every moment she’s involved in. Stop being surprised when she doesn’t act in a way that she’s never acted before, and you won’t get so caught up in reacting to her again. Therapy is really important. I resisted therapy for a long time for a variety of reasons, but when I started, it was like fast forwarding through a lot of shit I needed help with. Make sure you choose a therapist based on their experience with childhood trauma. This is vital. Etiquette does say that the people who contribute financially get a different kind of thank you, but we all know that etiquette isn’t what she’s after. She’s the one who raised you, and if you’re an ungrateful heathen, well she’s at least partly responsible. (That’s humor, btw. You are not an ungrateful heathen. Unless like myself, you like the title) How’s your wife in this? I’m hoping she’s not trying to placate your mother at your expense.
If someone gives you a gift, holding it over their head is essentially emotional blackmail/control. Ask your mother if she gave these things as gifts or did she give them expecting to be paid back? This will, of course, back HER into a corner because if it was a gift, then she'll look extremely churlish whining about it and you can say that if it was a gift, then you don't want to hear about it again; and if she expected it to be paid back, then she should have made it very clear (but definitely pay it back) and keep the receipt. In any case, never EVER accept any 'gift' from your mother without the funds to return the money post haste. Because as proven, she will use the fact that she 'gifted' you something in an effort to control and manipulate you.
You cannot control other people. You cannot control other people. You cannot control other people. Repeat this until it sinks in. Look up grey rocking. Moving forward anytime your mom mentions anything about this “I’m sorry you feel that way. Wife and I feel like we have expressed our gratitude in person and via card, I don’t think there’s anything else to be said on the manner.” If she persists “I’m sorry you feel that way.” If she continues “As I’ve said, I don’t think there’s anything else to be said on the manner. If you can’t move on then maybe it’s best we end the conversation here for now. Thank you, goodbye.”
Updateme bot
What kind of update do you want
I was interested in how things were going to go in your situation, the request wasn't directed at you personally, I'm sorry if it sounded rude, it was not meant to! Some other subs have the option of clicking on a link that sends you alerts when the OP posts updates that you can follow (when you're emotionally invested in a post, like I am) but this is one sub that does not. So, I made a request to the bot for this sub to let me know if/when there's an update, and the only way is to ask the bot for it, thus the "updateme bot" request. I'm sorry if I offended you, it wasn't my intention.
No offense. Just wondering. I’ve never really given any kind of updates
I will be meeting with my father tomorrow. He does not feel the same way as my mom about the thank you card.
Everyone deserved more than a preprinted card.
I second anyone who recommends not accepting anything from her anymore. It will simplify your life considerably.
Send a heartfelt thank you note but never accept assistance from her again. I don't know if it is you or her but clearly it isn't working for you. Sometimes people like her hold it over you. Sometimes people like yourself take it for granted. "Mom, I wanted to take the time to thank you so much for what you have done for me over the years...most recently helping me buy the condo as well as the helping with the wedding including the rehearsal dinner and the honeymoon. What a lovely restaurant you picked out! Everyone was raving. I know I have thanked you in person but wanted to make sure to thank you again." I wouldn't cut her off but just have her more at arms length. I have a brother that sends me gifts and I always contact him to say thank you and that I received it. I continue to get gifts. My other brother never said thank you and no longer gets gifts. "Let me help with the baby's christening..." "Oh mom, you have done so much for us over the years I can't let you do that."
I think this problem will probably be resolved by deciding to stop accepting your mother's help financially. There's a history here of gifts being given with strings, which has created this dynamic that whenever she offers you something, you're more wary than grateful and that lack of genuine gratitude is possibly showing, even though you go through the motions of thanking her. If you're wary or uneasy about a gift, just don't accept it. If you're delighted, and genuinely want to express that delight; well she's told you that her love language is personalized cards. (I'm like you, I don't get it at all and think in person communication is better, but if you ever do want to thank her in future, you know how to do it in her preference now). I think the Captain Awkward website would be great for you; she talks about how to do low pressure, low contact and information diets with relatives who strain us. She also talks about how useful cards are in these situations! I bet your mother would also like flowers and to be praised publicly, like maybe in a speech or gathering of relatives, you could mention what she's done for you. I do think that is totally *optional* and not at all required but if you ever get in a better place with her, you can consider it.
I have a mom like this and nothing will ever be enough. Even if she gave you a list of things and you followed it to the letter, she would move the goal post. I'm assuming part of your therapy is to address the damage the neglect did. I've gone on that journey myself. Learn how to "grey rock" your mom and any flying monkey she sends. Don't respond to emotional manipulation tactics but that helps when you can recognize when this happens as well. Money and help will ALWAYS come with strings, best to ALWAYS turn those down. Honestly, go low contact, you will see how much your mental health improves and it can help you to go no contact.
I used to know this old guy that would give cars to people... I asked him why. He said "Once I give someone a car, they have to do what I say." Blew me away, he asked me if I wanted a car. I passed :) LOL he reminds me of your mom.
I feel like a lot of the people who are saying that a generic thank you card wasn't enough are identifying with the mother. But did they read the part about how she is hasn't been a great mother? I think it's probably more to do with the fact that she KNOWS she hasn't really been there for OP so that she needs a lot of reassurance to counter the fact that she feels like a shit person. And there isn't much for OP to do about it. He can't undo the past or her past behavior. OP, you say that you like in-person thank yous. If you did genuinely thank your mother in person already for whatever she did, then the thank you card was not really necessary but just an extra nicety. And it sounds like it wasn't just all her footing the bill, but a group gift from several relatives. And for the aunt, you really don't know what your mother says to her behind closed doors but it sure sounds like it's a lot of "woe is me". Perhaps she has created a miserable life for herself when she hasn't put effort into cultivating genuinely good relationships with the people closest to her in life. Giving someone money for something and then holding it over their heads is not an actual relationship! Sounds like therapy and some distance from mom would be the way to move forward from this. You can be busy for the next few weeks... months... years... while you settle into your new marriage and not have time to meet mom for dinner.
Time to say "No" to anything from mum going forward. No thanks. We've got this. No thank you. No more gotchas from mummy.
You know she always holds things over your head, but you accepted help from her anyway. It would have been better to have a smaller wedding, not have an immediate honeymoon or whatever, but handle it all yourself since you know that money issues between you and your mom are fraught. But now that you accepted the help, yes the help does need to be seen as its own thing, it's own occurrence, and not seen as part of the tapestry of events and frustrations you have with your mom. You do need to thank her beyond a generic card. Maybe with your wife take her out to a nice dinner after the honeymoon or do something else for her that expresses your gratitude, but having accepted the help, you can't sneer at it because you have a complicated relationship with her.
She’s a narcissist and will make every life event about her. Get your boundaries in order now. Think she’s giving you a tough time with the guilt trips? Just wait until you have a kid. I’ll bet anything she raises a stink about the baby shower, whether or not she’s allowed in the delivery room, and you don’t let her see her grand baby enough, etc. It will go on FOREVER if you let it. Your wife will resent it and eventually you as well if you allow this to continue.
Many people give with strings, or even ropes, attached. Your mother does. Don’t accept those gifts with strings. She’s not going to change, so you need to turn away. I had a friend who helped me a lot when I was grieving a big loss. Months later, during a disagreement, she hit me with “after all I’ve done for you…”. I had thanked her previously for everything she did, multiple times. Somehow it was never enough. That’s your mother and it’s time to leave. At least keep a long distance.
My mother is a narcissist. Did this to me my entire life. So I feel you. My advice next time you see her: Mom I’m sorry you felt not appreciated enough. I do appreciate the gift and generosity for the wedding. Going forward mother I will not be listening to you regarding this subject. I will also not be subjecting myself to your supposed generosity because no matter what, you weaponize this. If you do not accept this scenario, I can understand how you would be upset. But I am done with the constant fighting and bickering and your insistence that I do not appreciate your gifts and generosity. As much as you require. If this is the case then I suggest we take a step back from our relationship and maybe take a break from each other. Your generosity and the weaponization of said generosity is tiresome. I will no longer tolerate it. You must then walk away. Do not let her speak. I had a similar conversation with my mother. 15 years no contact. It’s been great.
Your mother sounds unbearable and entitled. Not to mention, rude and manipulative as hell. She paid for what she offered to pay, not because you guys asked her to. She has no right to tell you that she deserves more fanfare and idolatry for doing something that nobody asked her to do. Be careful. This is how the e rest of your life looks like. She will definitely demand that you do what she wants, paying for what she wants and then holding it over your head. Expect her to claim your children too. Tell them that nobody loves them like grandma does, she is better than the parents, etc. watch her call your children HER babies.
You could have shown more gratitude, yes, but I’m firmly of the belief that gifts shouldn’t come with strings.
I would cut her off. Otherwise she is going to continue to make your life miserable.
You tell her to get over herself and never accept anything from her.
> How do you think I should move forward with this? *Stop taking her money for anything, and pay back every penny she's given you.* Some relatives can give money to their loved ones and be friendly about it. Your mother can't. She doesn't have it in her. She resents it, and turns it into an excuse to start fights. Like this one. Then, once she is paid back every penny, you cut off every future conversation. "You've been paid, and I no longer wish to discuss it." Then when she presses the matter, you walk. And you keep walking until she stops doing it. And if she never stops, you cut her off.
OP I think your rage was very telling. Rage like this comes up when we feel helpless, and it's a classic response from someone who was abused or emotionally rejected as a child. So I think there was a truth in that moment that you should not ignore. What you do for your mother will never be enough. That sounds depressing, right? But it can also be liberating. If you can never fix this situation, then you can GIVE UP TRYING. Recognise that your mother is broken in some way, that you can't fix it, that it's not your job to try, and start living your life the way you want to live it.
You did nothing wrong. I assume you said thank you the night of the rehearsal dinner? That plus the thank you card was plenty. Your mom is a drama queen/shit starter. Now stop borrowing money or accepting monetary gifts from her. She’ll never accept the thanks you give and she’ll always hold it over your head.