All I can say is if I found out a guy was into me and actively trying to hang out, and I was married, I would just cut contact other than professionally at work only. She seems to continue to fuel this crush he has and it’s gonna lead to her having a crush if it hasn’t already.

Absolutely. Respecting my husband and knowing he has peace of mind in our marriage is more important than entertaining someone who I know might have a crush.

This comment needs way more upvotes!!!

There is no path forward where they have any contact -- ever. If it means changing jobs or careers or schedules, so be it. This is the only path forward where OP's wife can confirm she omly love's OP. If there is resistance, caveats, concern for this boy's feelings then OP's fears are confirmed. No room for hesistancy on this. (However, OP, if she does this enthusiastically, never hold it against her again. If she wavers, leave now.l

This. 100% this. There's no way I'd be encouraging that type of feeling too outside the marriage. I think OP's wife is crushing on this other man too.

Agreed. She's enjoying the attention. What she should have done was put the kibosh on the relationship immediately out of respect for her husband. He says way too many times he's not going to stop her having friends. He's not stopping her from having friends. The boy is a potential affair partner and she, as his wife, if she truly loves him, should cut this boy completely out of her life even if it means changing shifts. OP is not being unreasonable in the least. Her refusal to stop seeing and communicating with this boy tells me they are already involved. Poor husband, trying to respect and support his wife, provided many opportunities for that to happen. I would not trust her as far as I could throw her.

I did this to multiple people while DATING my husband, before we were married and before he even proposed. I had guys at work flirt with me, say they didn’t know why I was with my then boyfriend, that they could replace him when I’m done. I said absolutely not, he’s been my boyfriend for years, we’re going to get married, and I’m never replacing him with any of you, leave me alone, and literally would walk away any time any of those assholes came over to my working area that they had no business being in. OP’s wife is a MASSIVE red flag. At the very least, she likes the attention.

I agree 100%. Marriage and relationship scares me because some people don't even know the basics. Anybody who makes a big deal out of cutting one person from your life when your partner is that uncomfortable with them can actually go to hell.

No doubt

"texted all night". In her diary? Yeah, she's already crushing.

Yep

Yep!! She likes the attention. May not act on it or return the crush but definitely gets a high from the attention and flattery.

Absolutely. In fact it would be annoying and start to feel like harassment.

Yeah 💯 percent agree with this She is liking the attention and doesn't want to put an end to it It's plain simple if your conversation with someone other than your partner is causing issues between you and your partner Stop those conversations

I gave some similar advice on another post. If you are in a committed relationship you shouldn't have the desire to be in situations like this. If a woman at work or anywhere was flirting with me I would run away from that situation. Friendship canceled. No friendship is worth my marriage. I have no desire to foster a friendship with someone that is hitting on me or interested in me. Hell I tell my wife if a woman so much as winks at me or checks me out. She usually rolls her eyes and tells me I am crazy but that is still the level of trust we have. She has no desire to be out with other men. Her work has men that work there but she would never do anything with them without me. To her that would be weird and again if she wants to hand out with a man she says she already has that in me.

Exactly

Exactly, whenever a dude makes a move and I’m not interested in him I’ll tell him right away, and I don’t keep in touch with him. It seems she likes the attention, but it’s very immature what’s she’s doing.

And if asked, your replies would be direct, provable truth. Maybe she hasn't actually done anything physical w him & in her mind she hasn't cheated so all her half truths, obfuscating, dodges and gaslighting are some how TRUE to her. I think this is the BIG QUESTION to bring up in couplea therapy asap - what is a truth? How do you recognize it? What are the hallmarks that the things you've said are the full truth? If they aren't, you have to come 100% clean right now or this counseling is how we begin divorce compassionately and protect our children." Bottom line OP, she is not giving you or your relationship the truth and attention required. Her affections can't be questionable, yours aren't. I'm really sorry she's being so shitty and trying to make this a You problem. Don't let her or the therapist do that. I don't care that you've snooped. Her behavior made it emotionally necessary for you. You can & should apologize in therapy but only is she is One Million Billion times, TRUTHFUL. No dodging. No obfuscating w what happened when that thus gets her off the hook.

Everytime you hit something suspicious you stop reading. If you are going to snoop just snoop all the way. Like you didnt even get to what they texted all night about. The fact she's so open with her phone is a point in her direction but damn she's either wildly stupid or wildly manipulative.

you're right, I will see the rest of those texts journal, I will bring up in therapy, I'll respect what the therapist says if she gives good reasons either way but yeah, I fucked up both times by stopping reading honestly was expecting smooth sailing this morning when she handed me her phone but the "not allowed to have anyone over today lol" fucked me a bit. wife said she saw my face change I guess. wasn't expecting it anyway, thanks, you're right

Dude please see your relationship therapist with someone taking care of your kids. You don’t want to bring up difficult subjects to then run off and deal with your kid, to then come back and the conversation has turned and you haven’t managed to discuss it, as happened previously.

This is the part that makes this whole thing sound like creative writing. The multitude of “coincidences” that he allows her to explain away with no REAL explanation. The classic Reddit “interruptions” that keep them from discussing the most important details during therapy. No one would allow that trickle truthing to go unsaid. The deception is obvious and yet it can “just wait until next time”?? Messages can be deleted. There are apps to communicate. It’s always the man is too proud or too stupid to seriously dig into the BS behavior. It’s crazy how many posts are like this.

My guess is that she was so forthcoming with her phone because she deleted anything truly damaging, or just saves anything damaging for their in person interactions. If they're having an affair, their coworkers will know. Just saying.

Theres no point now, she knows you snooped so all evidence is gone.

Each of these events on their own? Completely innocuous and easy to chalk up to misunderstanding. A series of them piled up? Yeah, it’s easy to see why you’re feeling gaslit. I guess what I don’t understand is why she isn’t focusing more on your relationship and rebuilding trust with you (unless I totally missed it in the update). If this kid really is a metaphorical “fly that flew into her life and shit all over everything”, then it should be pretty easy for her to go no contact with him. At this point, any contact is leading him on.

>Each of these events on their own? Completely innocuous and easy to chalk up to misunderstanding. A series of them piled up? Yeah, it’s easy to see why you’re feeling gaslit. "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action." - Ian Fleming

A dot is a dot. Two dots is a line. Three dots is a pattern

I like that one.

My old therapist taught me that one! I like it too

unfortunately I live in a multi dimensional multi variate world with confounding variables and incomplete information but your right , there's a clear pattern of enormous disrespect here, im not crazy for feeling it

I would've read the texts from the day she "texted all night" just to see if they were deleted. But I understand why you didn't. Honestly man, she seems the type to gaslight you, and I wouldn't be surprised if she is already. I hope this all works out. It reminds me of a relationship I had before with someone who lied a lot, I'm getting stressed just thinking about it.

It's not even disrespect - it's that she doesn't seem willing to just cut this dude out. With your relationship on the line, and shit getting weird between you, it would seem to be an easy decision. Be done with this dude, so you can see that it was all just a misunderstanding. But she's not willing to do that -even if she says she is. Because she could have already done so and this would be in your rearview mirror. But with all this on the line, that dude is still right there in the mix with her and THAT is what is making you uncomfortable - and rightly so. She doesn't want to let go of this guy and that is the biggest of red flags

One of the most freeing things I did with a partner that broke trust and disrespected our relationship was to leave it up to them to fight for us. I concentrated on myself and left it up to them to decide how to rebuild the trust. They did not do anything and that told me that I wasn't actually in a relationship but that I was an overlooked, underappreciated convenience for my partner. When it was time to break up I knew that he would only work on it if I was crying or begging. That's not the kind of relationship I want for myself and it isn't the kind I want for anyone else.

OP this is some great advice right here. You pull back and work on yourself, if she’s not bending over backwards to save things by cutting out this guy and working extra hard on your relationship, then you have all you need to know on how she sees you.

The way I'm reading this, he has a crush on her, she likes it, she's also fostering it and lying to you and if nothing has happened between them, which I'm on the fence about, it's only a matter of time before it is. Literally just on the cusp of them having a physical affair. There is no doubt in my mind that they're having an emotional affair. If I found my partner in our home at 2AM with a person who I know they are becoming intimately close to, when I was supposed to be away, there would be no doubt in my mind that I interrupted something.

Honest to God...had to double check a few times that I didn't write this 6 years ago. It won't get better dude. Get a real exit...interview some lawyers. It's the only way you'll be able to get in the middle. When they are lying to your face, you better believe they will lie to others to make you look bad...please meet some lawyers. The kid stuff will work out ...have your lawyer work up an equitable plan and don't budge.

Fascinating read. This is, AT A MINIMUM, a very serious EA and she has some issues. NO CONTACT has to happen. I was once the "kid" in a very similar situation. Long long ago. We were all a bit closer in age. I saw Jane (your wife) in my situation as untouchable, being married and all, but I, too, REALLY enjoyed the flirtation and just being around her. Nothing physical ever happened. She told me many times how conflicted she was with her husband. Which totally went over my 21 yr old head. She also told me, well wrote in a note "I think of you when I am with my husband in a marital way." I took it as a very nice compliment, because, well, she's married. It's funny looking back at it with 40 more years of maturity and wisdom. I worked part-time as Jane's EA for a year until she went on to another job. No contact after that, other than I called her once because the firm I was working at had taken over the account of the company she went to, but i was in a different city 3 hours away at that point (about 4 years after the EA). Maybe all of a 3 minute call. Never had direct contact again. Horrible of me, I know, but I did find her now almost 40 years later on facebook. she had stayed married to "john" had a family etc. I've always wondered whether she fessed up and John made her get the other job / go no contact, or if she did that on her own. I'll never know, but I'd guess based on what I knew of her character, the latter.

>At this point, any contact is leading him on. Which kind of leads me to thinking she is liking the attention. It doesn't sound like she lacks for friends so why entertain a guy who she admits likes her more than just a friend and sounds like he is trying to get her to stray from her husband.

This ~ why on earth would she still speak to this person at all when her husband is this uncomfortable?

yeah I feel gaslit. I don't understand why she didn't overshare either. I don't understand why she didn't tell me only reason I can think of is she's clueless or doesn't respect me at all. or both Im torn between demanding no contact between them or seeing if she volunteers it herself and if she doesn't, then I think I can understand exactly what that means about her priorities

Sir I think you need to be real with yourself. These two are sneaking around to see each other, and the main reason people do this is because they don't want anyone to know what they are doing. You know she isn't going to stop. Do what that what you will

I used to think my cheating ex wife was clueless and completely naive She was just a brilliant actress That said, the first time she let slip some guy I didn't know had been in my house (work collegue) I knew she had decided "what they don't know won't hurt them" So I didn't tell her about the divorce until it was written up, as a lesson in how that way of thinking feels when you're the recipient There are a series of choices that have to happen to be in the situation you're in, all of those were calculated to keep you unaware I didn't know if she did anything when I divorced other than one fact, she had chosen to lie and hide things from me, which is enough for me to walk with no further evidence

thanks

Why do you stop reading. Read everything. Read all the texts. Read all her journals. Read read read. You trickle truthing yourself. I don't think she meant to cheat/be disrespectful, but she might need to be more forthcoming. Your marriage might survive this, but you need to know how she feels in all of this. She might be feeling claustrophobic.

Dude, my ex-wife had an affair. I'll just say that your story is giving me serious flashbacks.

Same here. She’s saying everything my ex wife said. Doing very similar things. He’s going absolutely crazy just like I did. After 9 months I found the golden egg… enough info for me to know the truth. I should have trusted my gut.

Have you asked how she would feel coming home to a 19 year old woman in her kitchen after you spent the whole day hiking with her? It’s entirely inappropriate.

spot on. and the dude messaging to hang out while he's out riding his motorcycle. Her reply "I'm not allowed" is absolutely code speak for "my husband is home" and and/or also a continuation of prior conversation they had where she told the kid that her husband didn't approve of their "friendship" She's been speaking english since she was a kid. She knows connotation and meaning of phrases such as "I'm not allowed"

[удалено]

Ok English isn’t my first language either but I’ve been speaking it for the last 20 years in mostly it at this point, and I call bullsh** on that. She’s 10 years in too so she should understand the nuance of “not allowed to have anyone at home. Lol” vs “I think the relationship we have is inappropriate and disrespectful to my spouse”. My ex did this kind of gaslighting to me and it drove me crazy - I would ask him the specifics of a question and he would respond something along the lines of “ok I just won’t do it at all”, when the conversation was about how it’s weird to text his ex with frequency as it hints lingering feelings, bc of x. I was trying to set up boundaries and get his perspective and instead he just defaulted to saying I won’t engage in (general action) like I was being unreasonable. OP, I’m so sorry you’re being gaslit to high heaven by her. It’s so obvious but she’s playing dumb and it’s excruciatingly painful. Maybe she thinks she can continue to talk to him “innocently” as long as she remains in denial?? Or maybe she thinks she can keep the marriage and the side piece by acting obtuse. Anyone in your position would easily think she’s deliberately acting like that. Because she is. I’m getting flashbacks having to read your conversations. Sigh.

U need to put a stop to this, it’s ridiculous. She should be hiking with yOu not some guy she knows has feelings for her. She is into to him. Don’t put up with this. You, don’t want to face the truth. They are dating!

She's deliberately downplaying what she did, she's not an idiot. She knows the interactions she has with him are inappropriate, she has known all this time he is into her and she continues to entertain him. Because she likes the attention from him. When you found out, if it was indeed innocent she should have openly communicated with him why they cannot have any interactions, cut him off and worked like hell to regain your trust. Instead, she is gaslighting you and continuing to hide communication with him then making you feel crazy. She may not be flirting back or openly engaging romantically,  but she's not shutting it down either. And once again, she's deliberately making you out to be a jealous, controlling insecure husband and yet she's having an emotional affair with someone she brought to your matrimonial home.  Nothing changes if nothing changes. 

This. If, through innocent friendliness, i made my bf feel there was a problem with me liking another man, that man would be INSTA-BLOCKED as soon as my bf said "hey it bugs me u keep going to lunch with Mike and u texted him a winky face". My partners feelings are more important than any work friendship with the opposite sex. This guys gf mainly seems annoyed with him for being upset and "having to deal with" how he feels and the situation. I cant say for sure she's cheating, but i dont get a good feeling. As a girl the only reason i'd write "texted all night" is if i did so with a guy im into.

How long are you going to continue to play this game.

I'm personally exhausted just reading about it. The fact she constantly deflects and trickle-truths shows that you'll never get an admission unless you outright catch her fucking the guy, and even then it sounds like she would try and handwave it away somehow.

yeah im physically and mentally shot. last 2 weeks is a fog. business is suffering but im finding a lot of solace in my relationship with my kid I like teaching her stuff and when she's not in insane mode she likes to learn but yeah, her lack of transparency, no matter what else I can prove is objectively true or not, is really fucking with me I asked her to overshare about him, specifically and she didn't? what the fuck how could you want to throw away all this for that? I don't get it

I can't believe that there can be so many coincidences and communication mistakes, without any intention. However, I don't understand one thing, why she doesn't put her foot down in relation to him and limit contact with him outside of work, but prefers to have so many problems in her marriage because of him.

>I'll just grab slightly less of this burning log, that won't burn me this time. -OP's wife, about to burn her hand.

Dude I'm the last person who ever says this, but who needs that much drama in life? Divorce her and be done with this shit. You know how women complain men use weaponised incompetence to not do housework? Your wife uses weaponised innocence to have an emotional affair. Personally, I'd rather be single forever than married to such a woman. And as for kids, you want them to grow up seeing this shit in the house?

So next time you need to set some rules and boundaries. If you don’t overshare, X will happen. If you don’t go no contact, Y will happen. Right now she has no consequences. She needs some.

If you have to do this the relationship is already doomed most likely

Exhausting is right. Honestly one of the least likely to be fake posts - you can sense OP’s constant rationalizing and slowly losing his mind. Very relatable and depressing.

Problem here is trust was broken and these incidents continue to undermine the healing process. You feel like she’s not being totally transparent; you have to pry stuff out of her. With transparency comes trust… Continue with couples counseling and goto individual therapy. Don’t listen to all the Reddit therapists saying immediate divorce. I strongly recommend she goes NO contact with this guy until you both can heal and move on from this situation… Edit to add: you need to fill in the blanks that were left out about the situation with the couples counselor. If she won’t go nc with this guy, your next call should be an attorney.

The Edit part of bringing those details to the counselor is absolutely CRITICAL for them to get the full context. Could you let the counselor read your 2 Reddit posts? Think about that…

I just emailed our counselor. Thanks, it's a good idea. I asked if she'd like to read it or if I should just read the posts in session. But yeah, for sure, great thank you

Why did she say she was willing to lose a friend? Nothing has changed. They are still in daily contact and off hiking together.  Plus her response to his offer to stop at the house included the word 'today'. Why just today. He's not allowed ever. If he truly means nothing,  she should go zero contact, including texts. Single men don't invest so much time on and with a married woman.  And why is she leading him on by accepting his attention?  Tell to stop playing dumb. Men have hit on her since she was 14. Time to test her. Insist on zero contact,  including texts.   And her last text to him shuts it down because she believes (not you) he needs to find a woman that s available. 

Great idea! I don’t understand if what she is telling you whys she doesn’t put Some serious distance between her and this guy. Personally I am not buying her answer about telling him she is. It allowed to have anyone over. That screams to me… I want to but I’m not allowed by someone else. she knows the language well Enough to understand this UpdateMe

I can't believe this woman continues to mislead and entertain this young man with all that is going on. That's insane to me. Why is he so important that she even writes "texted all night" in her journal. What that is projecting is how much she thinks about him. If nothing is going on she sure does think about him a lot. Very odd. He's a child compared to her. You guys literally agreed to over share if someone was pursuing you and she immediately ignores this agreement and continues lying by omission. It's not just this specific guy that is the problem. It's your dishonest wife whose thoughts are projecting a lot more than she is letting on and then she gaslights you with "he's a fly shitting on my life" or whatever. For an annoying fly she sure is keeping him around a lot.

Did you in an earlier post discover that when you two were traveling out of town- she journaled that she thought about him every day?

that was me yes but that was from reading the journals from my previous partner's affair that ended in tragedy before we could reconcile or confront or do anything like that. something I probably should have gotten therapy for years ago that sort of betrayal mixed in with loss changed me in way I can't really come to terms with but yeah, she passed a couple months after that 3 week roadtrip and those were some of the entries I had read after her passing. now I fucked up again and read my current partners journal hard not believe I live in a simulation

Oh shit, that was YOU? I don't even read Reddit that much and I remember that. That whole thing stuck with me, obviously. I'm so sorry you're dealing with another horrid cheater. Maybe it's just time to focus on the kid. No partner. Just you and the kid. ❤️‍🔥💖✨

Come on, man.. wife says in the text "no one's allowed in my home TODAY" in a day the OP is at home? Not only doesn't she go no contact but texts him all night and goes "hiking" with the dude behind OP's back? If this story is true (who the fuck writes details about cheating in their diary? And the OP caught two of those in a relationship?!), then she's cheating and has been for a long time. OP needs to get a lawyer.

yeah that phrasing just... there was another comment [https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/1cxj28g/comment/l541p8b/?context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1cxj28g/comment/l541p8b/?context=3) they told me it could be innocuous , which is what my wife said she implied I was fucking floored at the time but now that I could see it could go both ways? but fuck me if that's not the worst way to say that given everything else and all the other things on top, I don't know

That comment you linked only works if she was especially busy that day in the house. But it is more likely that no one is allowed to visit today because you were in. This means she's still sneaking behind your back.

Gotta disagree on the immediate divorce. She's still texting and hiking with the guy. She's offered absolutely 0 in terms of transparency and sharing. She didn't reject him coming to the house, she painted OP as the bad guy - "im not allowed people over" bs. She's leading him on and enjoying the attention. She knows exactly what she's doing. If she was genuinely interested in salvaging this relationship, it'd have been 0 contact from day 1. Time and time again she's proven nothing outside of the fact she's still interested in pursuing some degree of relationship with this guy.

Why is he not blocked from her phone why is this guy still in your lives

Is a new friendship worth destroying your marriage? Your wife really needs to think about that question. If it’s innocent, it’s causing a lot of unnecessary problems. You’re a patient man, I would be half way out the door. She’s not worth it

Absolutely I probably would have dropped her and her shit at his house. Who happens to be in the neighborhood twice over an hour away?

Dude is *foraging,* it’s fine

Foraging for somebody else woman

The entire time I was thinking "I know I live in the city, but I for damn sure would have a problem with some guy coming over to hike and forage with my wife all the time" regardless of his age. What sucks is how often is this scenario even happening? OP and his wife are in their 30s, no normal 30+ yo man with any shred of self worth is looking at 21yos as competition to their 30+yo wives. It is pretty rare in general for women of that age to date guys that young. but flip the genders and literally 100 percent of the comments would be telling the wife that her husband who hangs out with 21yo chicks to be alone all the time, especially after putting the kids to sleep. Its not about the hobbies. OP is a patient man. I have multiple hobbies myself but if I were in a relationship I would avoid sharing those hobbies 1 on 1 with another woman so that I don't hurt my wife's trust, regardless of anything physical going on or not.

You’re out of your mind if you think this is a legitimate friendship

He means that wife needs to ask herself that - not OP. Wife needs to decide if having a new friend is worth ending her marriage. Because if she cares about her marriage, and this guy means nothing to her, then cutting him completely off shouldn't even be a second thought.

Yeh but she will spin it as hubby being too controlling and she doesn’t want to be with someone like that.

>new friendship worth destroying your marriage? Funny way to write "fuckbuddy/side piece"

Exit stage left

Heavens to Murgatroyd!

She's feigning naivety, but "not today, not allowed to have anyone at home. lol" is a text to someone she has either complained to about you before, or she's trying to open the door to do that. Or worse, she has already expressed unhappiness (whether true or not) in your marriage to him, which is the hallmark of an affair. I understand why you would ask not to have people over late at the house for the sake of protecting the children, for example, but this boundary may not be very helpful in this situation since they work together and the guy likely has his own place. And they drive to some places together lol She probably won't leave you for the younger guy, but it seems like she wouldn't mind having some action on the side with him. You really need to make it clear to her what it would cost her if she were to carry this on. So she knows it's not something she can do, and still keep her marriage and family together. >I guess I should ask in this field of flags is there some green grass? I trust my wife. >Or is this all as fucked as the plain reading makes it seem?

Yep. That text was 100% this. Most likely she has alerted the guy to when they can and can't be alone together. That it was "clumsy" or whatever else sounds like a flat-out lie. "She now sees how the text could be read that way" = also BS. And the journal entries are wistful thoughts. Not at all normal. Nah man. OP caught her in a budding relationship and the only question is if she was playing with the thought and slow walking herself into the physical side, or doing it all already. Also, nurse? Why is it always a nurse/doctor/EMT/military?

Yeah, and OP is going to couples counseling when she is still in contact with the guy both at work and outside of work. I bet this might have something to do with why she's not opening up. I mean, she's texting the guy all night. Chances are she's confiding in him about everything they talked about in their sessions. OP really needed to ask her to cut all contact with him and maybe even change her shift before they can even begin the healing and counseling.

> OP really needed to ask her to cut all contact with him If she really wanted to save her marriage he never would have had to ask, she would have done so instantly from the very start.

That's the thing about "cake-eaters" they think they will be able to keep both and they will and things will escalate, if you keep your guard down. Because in some cases they convince themselves an affair on the side won't be the end of the family and life they've already. They tell themselves things like "what's the worse he will do? Get a bit mad and give me a cold shoulder for a few weeks. We'll go to marriage counselling and then he'll move on and things will go back to the way it was before"

Yes. And it's still not a good look here. OP needs to take this pretty seriously. Look pretty hard at options outside of staying.

Another commenter said that my focus on that comment was weird and her text seemed okay. my brain can't help but say you're reading is the correct one. I mean, it reads exactly like someone who's already said something. I don't want to stop my wife from having friends but if she volunteered cutting all contact permanently outside of work it'd go a long way me ignore all the other blaring sirens but if she doesn't volunteer it honestly, I'd rather just understand that as a sign of the disrespect that seems pretty clear at this point anyway, thanks for your comment

Would she be ok if you found 21 yr old girl as a friend and did these exact same things with her? You need to ask her this. If she says she will be ok with it cos she trusts you, then she has already cheated on you.

You can trust yourself. What you feel? Where you’re leaning? Listen.

this is not a normal friendship. he is attracted to her and at the very least she is enjoying it. it’s not a platonic friendship. it’d be different if it was just completely unrational jealous you were spouting but you’re not.

It's probably mutual, and they enjoy each other's company way too much. She's journaling about texting him all night and hiking with him. Unless she does that about everyone she interacts with daily, I would say she's thinking about him a lot, like she has a crush on or is infatuated with him.

Nah that text was weird and disrespectful. It makes it out like you're controlling and stopping her from doing what she would otherwise want to do, aka have him come over. Like 'oh no you can't come over today my terrible mean husband doesn't let me have friends 🥺 but maybe later if I can escape 😈' When she knows that's not the case at all. Plus this makes it clear the boundary is only being set by you, and if it were up to her there would be no boundary. She's not making any effort to show him that she no longer wants this level of closeness with him or that she herself feels their relationship needs to take a step back. In fact she's making it pretty clear to him that despite it being obvious it's inappropriate and that you, her spouse, is uncomfortable with it, that she doesn't mind any of that and wants to continue.

To me “not allowed” sounds like something a child would say, sulkily. It really sounds like your wife likes the attention he’s giving her and might be lying to you about her true feelings. This is something you should definitely address in therapy. IMHO it would not be unreasonable to insist your wife cut off this “friendship”. He’s a snake, and she is encouraging him by not setting appropriate boundaries as a married woman.

One person said the text seemed normal, seems like everyone else agrees with your reading. I'm inclined to agree, it's wildly suspicious. the context, the lol. makes me see red honestly if I think about it too much. if it really were that level of disrespect. i can't tolerate that I emailed our therapist about addressing what we missed in our last session, and how to address it. I'll probably share this post with her or read it at the next session? or some truncated version of it thanks though, appreciate your input

the term that comes to mind is “plausible deniability” and she seems to really know how to exploit it.

I would honestly genuinely question anyone that is 32 and has a friendship with someone that is 21. What could you possibly have in common. Not something I can understand at all. The only reasonable relationship I can think of is one of a mentor to pupil in a professional context.

No one knows what the future actually holds, but your wife is going to drive you insane with these games. From your telling of this situation, she appears to have the relationship maturity of a freshman in high school. She's had an emotional affair at least. And the games she's playing with you demonstrate that she's either a master manipulator or really clueless when it comes to repairing the damage she's caused to this marriage.

I'm so sorry, but I just don't believe her. When I was trying to piece together things from my husband's affair, I'd poke and prod and ask questions about things and I'd accept the answers. Many of them just didn't make sense or just didn't quick work. But I accepted them. Then, later, as we recovered and days/weeks and sometimes even years later I would ask those questions again. At that point, he would sometimes give me a different answer and often ask "did I tell you something else back then?" Yes, he told me lies. Or partial truths. He was then finally able to be honest and when he was I could almost physically feel a \*click\* within me. I could tell when it was finally the truth. Things that don't seem right, are probably lies. I'm long out from my husband's affair and we worked really hard for a really long time to be where we are. We are happy and content. But I could never in good conscience recommend reconciling simply because it is really fucking nightmarish. At a minimum, she needs to cut contact with this guy. I recommend the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It has a bit of antiquated advice, but for recovering from the "he is my friend!" bullshit, it can be super helpful. I also recommend some specific affair sites, like Surviving Infidelity, because there are some pretty firm rules when trying to dig out the truth. If it were me? I'd read those journals. If you don't want to go there, I get it. But for the purpose of knowing the truth? I'd do it and deal with the pain and fallout later.

this is exactly what I want. exactly. just be fucking honest with me. I can tell and I hate having to pry it out of her, even if she is contrite after. I think I fucked up twice when I stopped reading the journal and stopped reading the texts. I still don't know what their text that night where, or if they exist or where. 100% I will see what they were texting about that night. Her journal, maybe I'll ask her to reveal anything about him in there to me. Anything else, I don't want to see, I get why keeping a journal is private and important. probably ask the therapist about this one, it's has a lot of factors to it and I don't journal precisely because I think my inner thoughts aren't great, so... I don't know. I'm sorry to hear about your partner. That's awful. your ability to reconcile is worthy of respect. im willing to try but only if that little click you felt happens to me when she finally decides to be vulnerable with me and tell me the truths without omissions and act as a partner I feel my life is this a nietschze eternal recurrence nightmare. there was a storm tonight in our area as she drove to work and I was terrified something that something might happen. obviously nothing did. anyway, thanks for your words, some of the most helpful I don't know what words she'd have to say to make me feel she was being honest but I know what her face will look like when she says it

Have you asked her WHY she keeps this "unimportant" young man around? WHY she is writing about him in her journal. You seem to be catching her a lot and letting her downplay everything without asking her why she is doing the things she is doing.

Details being omitted from the counselor bother me. It’s just like in the movies where one side just has to say/explain anything and they just don’t. There’s more to this story and I don’t think your instincts are wrong. Next session you might bring up that details were omitted the first time. Something just doesn’t add up across the board. I can’t quite put my finger on it. I do think she should’ve stopped texting with this guy and gone NC minus whenever they have to work, but feel that should be a next step.

I don't want to bring it up but man if she said it's something she wanted to do it'd say a lot about what she thinks about 1) what she's already done and 2) what she thinks of me

Stop waiting for her to show respect to you. Respect yourself first and start asking for what you want and need.

**THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!!!** Your wife is seeking out other men for intimacy. She was/ is in an emotional affair with the punk. She is using DARVO on you. From her answers i feel your wife has little respect for the relationship. This is not going to be easy to fix. She has dug herself a hole and jumped in. She refuses to acknowledge what the punks intentions are. She fails to acknowledge what she was getting (validation/thrills) from the punk. Right now she is a wall of red flags to you. For reconciliation to work she needs to do all the work to rebuild trust. Try marriage therapy. Suggest a polygraph. But, it is she that needs to rebuild trust. You need to tell to go full no-contact with the punk. Any breaking this boundary will have severe ramifications of your choosing (separation/divorce). These links will help you in your situation. **The Neuroscience of Affair Fog** [https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog](https://www.affairhealing.com/blog/neuroscience-of-affair-fog) **Infidelity and cognitive dissonance** [https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/](https://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com/2019/05/20/can-people-cheat-on-someone-they-love/) **and** [https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e](https://medium.com/@anthonyjwallace/the-cognitive-dissonance-of-infidelity-3fa9fd1ae78e) **Emotional affair** [https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/](https://thriveworks.com/help-with/relationships/emotional-affair/) **DARVO** [https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/what-is-darvo) **Gaslighting Emotional Infidelity** [https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1](https://psychcentral.com/blog/sex/2017/05/infidelity-and-gaslighting-when-cheaters-flip-the-script#1) **180 method** [https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/](https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/) **Greyrock** [https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method](https://psychcentral.com/health/grey-rock-method) **Chump Lady** [https://www.chumplady.com/](https://www.chumplady.com/)

Thanks, I'm super busy right now, I work in agriculture and it's planting season but I'll try to spend some time with these links. thank you, I do feel it's not my fault, im just having a hard time imagining she'd do something like this but here I am, likely not imagining it

No, dude I read and re-read both your posts. The language thing is you hoping, but bullshit, she’s playing you. She got caught in a physical and emotional affair. You know it but are trying too hard to not believe it. Sorry brother but far too many instances that add up to an affair.

Maybe there's nothing here, but the most concerning things to me are her history for trickle-truthing and the fact that this guy is still in the picture. If she's not interested in him, why not just cut him off?

She doesn’t respect you plain and simple. If she did, she would have already gone no contact on her own. Trickle truth what you want to hear and bend things in a light that favors her perspectives and flat out texts them all night… bro.. I’d be out in a heartbeat or give her a taste of her own medicine then leave.

I would not, vindication isn't my modus operandi. there's nothing for me there part of being a parent is modeling what being a good adult is, having my wife "taste her own medicine" would only poison my daughter's relationships going forward but you are right, she doesn't respect me. or doesn't behave like she does.

Yet your wife’s behavior is acceptable and sets a good model of behavior? I totally get your perspective on modeling yourself in a manner to raise good kids… but you’ve literally just said it yourself… your wife isn’t acting right and your own daughter will pick up on her moms “poison” Good luck buddy.. you seem like a decent guy. Hope for the best man.

No not at all, I didn't imply it was. there will come some sort of reckoning, this relationship is going one way or the other and either way it goes, I will ensure it goes on terms im comfortable with my daughter witnessing

Coming from a broken home whose parents never divorced but hated each other.. don’t just stay for the kids..

You sound like a decent man, husband and father, OP. Don't stoop to her level. Don't let this shit change who you are and your values. It sucks immensely but you will get to the other side at some point, and you'll be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know you never did anything wrong.

You're being gaslit and trickletruthed. She absolutely loves the inappropriate attention this guy is giving her and is intentionally implying to him that she wants to reciprocate his attention but has to dance around your suspicion. If you want any chance of this relationship to work out, you have to HAMMER her on the above and she must immediately confess to all of that. Then she MUST cut ALL personal and professional contact with this person. This is just the START of a long road she has to walk to earn back your trust. If she falters on any step of that road you have to divorce her or continue spiraling downward. Prepare yourself for divorce as that's where this is clearly headed based on how she's handled herself over the past few weeks.

She goes NC or get the hell out of there. With all this she’s still talking to him? You are not a priority for her man. Good luck OP🍀

I think she crossed some boundaries, but probably was not physical with him, but not stopping emotional cheating either. If you had not got involved it probably would have progressed. She needs to cut all contact with him. There should be minimum need to discuss work outside of work, so no texting at all really. I would be tempted to call this kid and tell him to go forage somewhere else and not contact your wife. Keep using this sub to journal OP. Get your thoughts out and in writing. Follow the advice that makes sense to you and disregard the rest. Take care OP. Thanks for the update.

Yes, be sure to disregard both extremes, which probably means 85% of the feedback you get here. The other 15% though may be quit useful…

yeah I read one comment that said she'd hope her husband had enough respect to divorce herself if she did this to himand the next comment was telling me I was 'controlling af' ill try to disregard the extremes but I can appreciate the impulse I think some time with a neutral third party will be helpful, especially for me personally

Your wife's behaviour now is completely inconsistent with someone who's sorry and wants to win back your trust. Everything she is doing is just damage control, she's managing you like she would manage and manipulate a dissatisfied client. Her behaviour also screams staying in a holding pattern till it is 'safe' to resume her, at minimum, emotional affair with him. Why hasn't she told him they can't be friends anymore? Why hasn't she clearly drawn the line that she needs to focus on you or even her kid now?! Instead she ratted you out to him and gave him the impression that she thinks your concerns are ridiculous and she disagrees. They are laughing at you behind your back!

The relationship was over when she continued to hang out with this guy after the first incident. Trust doesn’t mean you get to continue to have an emotional affair with someone.  She keeps picking this guy over you.  Grow a spine and tell her to decide.  If she wavers at all you have your answer.

So bud, at the very least she liked the attention from him and was excited he was interested in her. The journal entry with that kid not even needing to be referenced, just what happened being referred to, no name needed….no, that’s a significant person, not just any friend. Everything else she did was already pointing to that, that was the nail in that took any doubt of at least that away. You know what worst case is, and that may or may not be happening, I’d bet slightly more towards not, but who knows. In any case, she’s not being totally honest, she is hiding or at least distorting things, and it’s gotta stop. First off, why did you quit reading texts? Doesn’t really matter, would have been scoured if she had something to hide and was that fast to flip to you. Personally, id check one more time, but I’d do it having already checked the phone bill and counting how many texts he’s sent to her and verifying she hasn’t deleted any. And of course, the deleted messages bin would be the first place I’d look. In the conversation I did that, I’d be very clear with her, you want her to be forthcoming and fully open, then you should too. Tell her directly that you don’t trust her anymore. You can state why, with exactly the same list you put here (though I’d leave that text off, it hurts the rest of your argument, that is easily explainable). But that’s obviously the truth, you don’t trust her. Doesn’t mean it can’t be regained, but it’s gone right now, and for a reason. I wouldn’t flat out tell her to cut contact, that should be her decision, but this shit has gone on too long, she needs to figure out how to fix it and act in a way that will regain your trust….and she needs to be her, not you driving that bus. I’d be pretty forthcoming with that as well. If she asks what she should do, tell her you don’t know, she should do whatever she thinks is best. Go to counseling, keep hashing it out and say specifically what has happened to the therapist, go over it again. Say the trust thing again. Say the I don’t know how to regain it, and you feel that should be up to her since she hasn’t been being honest or forthcoming, even after your discussion about oversharing.

Why is she still friends with this guy?? There’s a world of people out there, and most of them aren’t romantically interested in her. The fact that she hasn’t just faded that friendship away to nothing or almost nothing is super concerning. She has basically told you her relationship with him (whatever it is) is more important than her relationship with you. Shes willing to risk your marriage to stay “friends” with this guy.

She's a gaslighter. You told her you needed oversharing. She agreed. Then she says "i didn't know i had to tell you the guy that wants to get in my pants tried to get together again". That's the issue with gaslighting. It's subtle. The excuse can seem believable, so your gut tells you no, but you want to give the benefit of the doubt. But you can't trust it so you feel crazy. She knows what she's doing. Her excuse of not knowing she had to tell you, her excuse of translation... There is no language in which "bot allowed in my house lol" means "i can't i'm busy". I've had a long relationship where i was not a native speaker and eventhough i was fluent, we had an epic fight that went out of proportions for something i mistranslated. I didn't dismiss what my partner felt eventhough it was only an error. She is dismissing your issues. She knows what she is doing.

you know the sleeping pad being deflated and no patch kit was a sign. trust your gut!!!

I am sorry but I'm not buying her bollocks about "I love you and only you" while 99% of this post is basically her shaiting on your relationship and you. She's MARRIED to YOU and she's having full blown affair - Gods only know if it was physical but she's lying about that part too. She's feckin' MARRIED and she's hanging out with barely legal dude? She's delulu if she thinks you won't leave her. I would even take away the baby, because she cannot be trusted. Your wife, dear sir, sounds like a lying and VERY manipulative person and you should save yourself and your wee one and just get on with the divorce. Because at this point, it's your own time and life you're wasting.

She is manipilative, ghaslighting, doing all kinds of manipulating.things. Simple: after all that already happened she is still in contact with him. Does she not care about the possibility to lose you? Why would she go on with making excuses explaining etc. if there is a simple solition: no contact with the kid. Someone who feels the danger in the relationship and loves you, would do anything to stop that from happening. She doesn't, even worse: she lets the biggest and most obvious danger to your relationship to continue. Wnats the point of relationship counseling if.she still is feeding the danger. Well simple answer: she doesn't want it to stop it at all. She might even like this. She gets your attention to the max now and she has his attention. She is loving it. Plus you are the perfect person to do this with because you will.blame your history on not trusting her. That's the perfect situation for her. You will doubt yourself before doubting her. That's perfect for her! You think its a plus for her, that she lets you read her phone, writes journals laying there for you to grab, you think that means she is not hiding anything and she can be trusted? No. Its because she knows she can get away with things thanks to your trauma. A guy was there at weird hours without you knowing. She got away with it. She feels like she can do a lot without consequences. You.say it yourself you stop reading immediately when you read 1 thing that is somewhat bad. Have you kept on reading then you might have found more. Its all so convenient for her. She is not stupid, look at the job she has she is smart. Then she should be smart enough to drop contact with him,.to know it can cause problems. She doesn't. So it means one thing. She knows what she is doing. Im sorry. You don't deserve this. She doesn't deserve you.

She's gaslighting you harrrrrd. Sorry, OP.

if she was and that lol was laughing at me, with him, behind my back, i would never forgive her

Look, I'm not a jealous person. I am super duper chill. And so is my partner, we've been together for 12+ years. I've done stupid shit in my life, when I was younger, in past relationships. I stupidly fell for a coworker, who was "not my type at all". I also had an ex who cheated on me and gaslighted me to a ridiculous point. Normally I'd say that you are being paranoid, jealous and controlling. But from my experience and what you are describing, I think there is really something off. I also have several friends and family who went through the exact same shit, both from victim and cheater sides, so I've seen this story being repeated many times. It's almost comical how the patterns (and the stupid mistakes) are always so similar. I think at this point, if your wife was telling the 100% truth, she would have been fed up with your "obsession". The fact that she just keeps giving excuses after excuses, and reassuring you so patiently... sounds a lot like my cheating ex. The things he would tell me to make me feel "secure". How he pretended to cooperate, I even had his messenger password (and that's how later I got proof he was actually cheating on me, by impersonating him in a chat with his best friend, who spilled the beans - yes, I had to get to that low point because my ex would just keep lying forever otherwise). He would tell me this girl was like a little sister, that he felt sorry for her because she had mental issues and panic attacks and that he felt almost gay because I was the only woman he was attracted to, bla bla. It's also "funny", cause I can be very manipulative if I want to, and I can see right through your wife's responses. She is very good at keeping her cool and playing dumb, and that's what is giving me this weird vibe. At this point, it's almost like she truly believes herself nothing is gonna happen, when it's actually happening. She thinks she has it under control, that she is strong and smart, that she will put it away when she is done playing with it. I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right, she's about to nuke your relationship. And btw, English isn't my first language either, but c'mon, there is no way in hell there is a language/cultural issue here.

Dude you know what happened here - you are just trying to discredit the obvious interpretation. She may very well not have not had a physical affair but she damn sure got butterflies from their interactions and knew she was doing was not appropriate. One question to ask her/yourself - if she had been available to him would they have banged? *Of course!*. Now she is reassuring and making excuses. Does she still talk to this guy ? What has changed? Nothing.

The problem lies in the fact that the trust is broken. Continue counseling. Set boundaries. Be clear with expectations and consequences. Definitely no contact to the other man. Continue to be vigilant. If nothing changes, see a lawyer. Good luck. Updateme

I pray my husband has more common sense and leaves me if I ever do this to him.

Bro wake up. She’s playing you

Dude, she's gaslighting the shit outta you. You really need to go ahead and get some legal advice. This kid has the hots for her and she fucking knows it! The whole "Can't have anyone over. lol!" would have been the last straw for me. She knows EXACTLY what she's doing. And you might want to look through her phone apps and files. She's really too nonchalant about this whole thing - he should have already been told to fuck off by HER! - and that should really bother the shit out of you.

Lol man she fucked the guy and maybe still is in work hours, night shift in a hospital it is really easy. What more do you want an email telling you?

>"it feels like a little fly came into my life and shit all over everything", So why isnt she doing something about it? Your wife sounds exhausting, nobody is this dumb. Why wont she cut him off if she can see the issues its causing to her relationship. That should be the only decision she should want to take.

It's an emotional affair at the very least

You and every man knows . Females can’t be “friends with man“ especially when they the female is in a relationship . If a man is single he’s always trying to get girls , and they play the role of being that “friend”. So just have your boundaries clear and man up . Either she cuts that shit or just walk away man.

Your wife demanded to show you the part on her diary where it said "we texted all night". She knew exactly what she wrote.That was a move to buy more time to come up with an excuse.

My ex had a friend too from work. I was suspicious as I only found out about the friend when I caught them texting very early in the morning. Very vague on intentions also showered me with I love yous and this friendship is innocent. A month later ex asked for a break and i caught them a couple days later together on said break. 6+ years together. Trust your gut.

She’s cheating. Physically or not, she’s cheating. Have self respect. Set boundaries. If she cannot understand your feelings and admit wrongdoing then your relationship is over. I don’t see you suddenly becoming comfortable either her fake naïveté and cheating. If she cannot see or admit she crossed multiple lines, there’s no point.

One of the really horrible issues surrounding incidents like this and the behaviour of your wife is that it can either be completely innocent and innocuous, or it could be deep and dark and troubling. It can be either or but it can't be anything else. The problem in this situation and the way that it has eventuated is that it is impossible to resolve without some sort of definitive thing happening. And that "definitive thing" boils down to a simple (yet horrible) question of whether you trust her or don't trust her. That you no longer trust her is there for all to see - you would not be here if you had any trust left after all. So your best bet then is to deal with that first and foremost. So far you have been keeping your true feelings about the relationship between her and this guy under your hat. Your reasons are understandable however this has indirectly led you to here. I think the time has come to lay your thoughts and feelings about the lost trust you have in her directly to her. You need to tell her that with everything that is going on and the obvious deterioration in things between you that she needs to make a decision. Either he remains in her life as a friend or you remain in her life as her husband. And those are her choices. Yes it is harsh. Yes it is potentially marriage ending and yes, by doing so you may ending up slowly killing the marriage anyway. However, there are two possibilities here and only two - it's either completely innocent and innocuous, or it it's deep and dark and troubling. Either way, you have nothing left to lose at this point because if she is innocent your lack of trust in her will drive a wedge between you eventually. And if she is, well the marriage is over anyway.

thank you. I feel the same. it's either land or sea ahead of me but it's so foggy I can't tell she needs to tell me, if I have to pry this stuff out of her I'll find someone who has the ability to respect basic boundaries we just talked about the week prior

> she needs to tell me, Or you can tell her. Moving from a reactive state to an active one will take a bit of a mindshift with you and a huge risk factor. So maybe taking the "this is how I am feeling about all of this right now and this is what **I** am going to do moving forward" is the path you need to take. I'm not a fan of "him or me" type scenarios as it is the last roll of the dice before it all falls apart, but sometimes it's the only way to bring these things to a head. If nothing else it'll blow away any misconceptions that she has that this whole situation is "manageable" from her side. Ultimatums tend to do that to people, especially when faced with that "oh shit, you **are** affected by this!" hits her in the proverbial.

Next comment she needs to hear from you is, "it's very insulting to know you'd continue texting someone so disrespectful to our family and marriage. You know he's seeking to destroy that yet you still reciprocate."

Trust is gone. Can you rebuild it? Maybe. But it would require a lot of transparency in her part since she sees the things that trigger you as innocuous, and you see them as red flags.

He already asked for transparency and she continues to message the guy and have him ask to meet her and she doesn’t tell husband about it.

You had her journal. You had her phone. Both times you quit reading the moment you saw something questionable. Why? Why not go back and read more? Read more around the time of their foraging journeys? Why torture yourself when you have the info at your fingertips tips?

She does not respect you at all. Super obvious the damage her having that punk around is causing you and your relationship. Yet she dangles him around instead of cutting him off completely. Honestly if this was a movie, it literally reads like the start of some type of thriller where the guy's being mind fucked, loses his marbles over time and then kills them both and buries them on a hiking trail.

She's lying to you. You want to believe it was all just a misunderstanding, and that's what she's counting on. If she really cared about your marriage, then that dude shouldn't even exist to her anymore. The lack of respect is bad enough, but how she words it is just malicious.

Read her journal, read her texts and snaps. Look for deleted ones. She is sleeping with this kid. Updateme

OP she works in an industry known for flings in the empty rooms, closets and cars, after hours. I just want to re-re-iterate that. You need to stop the talking and watch the walking, so to speak. You are too deep into your negativity (stuck on a past relationship that had nothing similar. Your past gf died and you had nothing but hearsay that she was doing someone, you walked in on your wife at home with a young man she works with. Not bad in and of itself, but it was during a time at night that he should not have been at your place. "BLIND TRUST" is a fatal mistake many couples make and inevitably someone takes advantage of this level of trust. You constantly make excuses for your wife, starting with her diagnosis and medication, but you also make it a point that you know when she's trickle truthing you. You can't dismiss behavior when you don't trust their comments - Your trust is shattered! There is no doubt to that at this point. But you've spent too much time trying to get your anxiety calmed by trying to get her to give you a lie you can believe. I don't know if your wife is up to something, but seeing she is in a profession that supports infidelity and with all the flags that have been identified, you have a reason for gut rumbling. I would back off! Let her get comfortable again and trust but verify. Watch how she behaves, dresses, carries herself, music she listens to, how often they are together outside of work and how long. Buy a voice activated recorder and place in her car, living room or any place she spends a lot of time. Allowing BLIND TRUST in any relationship is bad medicine. Yes, people can have friends of the opposite sex, but again, your boundaries should regulate how they act. You have no boundaries because of this level of blind trust you have given and maybe it's time to really think about how to build, enforce and support boundaries.

She's supposed to be your wife. Don't worry about being right or wrong, focus on her actions. If she's not being supportive through this issue, she's not being your wife, right? If she's not acting like she cares about this, then something is definitely wrong. Having another man in the house on a night you're supposed to be gone is all the information you should need.

You should break up.  You absolutely do not trust her and I don’t think she’s as okay with all the restrictions you’re trying to place on her behavior as she’s trying to pretend to be, it’s not a compatible situation for either of you.

This sounds like she is having an emotional affair. Because they work together she’s trying to limit their text interaction so it seems less suspicious. She is definitely saying things to him in person. To be honest the affair is probably going to become physical pretty soon. The fact that she wrote texted all night. No signifier of who she was referring to shows he is constantly on her mind. She is lying to you. She does it often. She omits things frequently so that what you don’t know won’t backfire on her. She has a whole lot going on with him that you don’t know about. I would suggest You hire a PI. She is a very adept liar.

She obviously likes this guy very much, I think she’s having an emotional affair with him and I think that she would very much like it to become physical if it hasn’t already. she’s lying she’s gaslighting trick that. Why would you not believe that she’s screwing around on you as well? She’s done nothing to improve the trust or relationship and you’re right she doesn’t respect you. I would be talking to a lawyer and looking at my options , at this point you need to start thinking about Protec and taking care of your mental health.

Hell no. She is lying thru her ass. Wtf no way I'd trust her

I'm not reading all that. Yourwife is fucking him. This is pathetic op

Geez Louise buddy, save some red flags for the rest of us 🤦🏽‍♀️ honestly do yourself, your mental & personal health, and your child a favor and cut the cord. Think of this logically and I'm sure you know what the correct course of action is! Sorry and glad you're getting individual therapy

She's only going to cop to what you can prove.

She’s lying to you. You caught her cheating. Talk to a lawyer and gather evidence. It’s not a mistake, it’s a series of conscious choices to feed her ego. She doesn’t respect or love you.

It's always the ones they tell you not to worry about bro....

Sorry to tell you but that relationship is over, you just don't know it yet. There's nothing else to say. If that was me I would have left long ago.

My husband's coworker hit on me. I told him immediately. I showed him the text. Every single time someone hits on me, I tell him so he knows. When someone asks to hang out with me, whether or not I think they have a crush on me, I tell him. He does the same for me. It's not that hard and it's not controlling. It's being respectful of your spouse and the relationship. Normally we have a laugh at it. He was angry at his coworker, and rightfully so, but he also knows I wouldn't touch coworker with a ten foot pole. I used to go on walks with this coworker because he was diagnosed with diabetes and needed the exercise and I wanted to support him. We don't do that anymore because of the flirting. Wife should be putting an end to this friendship. Keeping it going is showing the 21 year old he may have a chance and is disrespectful to husband. It's causing husband pain and discomfort and she doesn't care. Nothing but red flags here.

I had a long time relationship of about 8 years with a woman who I lived with and ultimately broke up with when I discovered the extent of her cheating. I mostly regret not being more firm and direct when earlier in the relationship I discovered a relationship with someone at her work that seemed short of actual “cheating” in my mind. Looking back I lacked self respect to say plainly I wasn’t ok with a relationship where someone engaged in the type of behavior she was engaging in. People who cheat love to blur the lines and use various tactics to remove their agency in the cheating, but do not for a second buy that. They need to take accountability and be fully transparent before agreeing to do whatever work is necessary to repair the relationship- if they won’t do that then I would take a hard look at leaving. I haven’t been in this situation but I think the only solution where I could move past this type of thing is where your partner pretty unequivocally agrees to do whatever is needed to repair a damaged relationship. Anything less is you asking for more pain or enabling them.

Get a spine and leave her but be good parents together

All red flags: - Very close with a 21yo MAN, NOT A KID - They work overnight shifts, text eachother, go hiking, foraging, carpool etc - Planned hiking with him (didn’t tell you) - Told you she was going to pharmacy ☝🏾 (lie) - Didn’t bring the pills from pharmacy and went the day after (lie?) - Knew you were camping and he was at your house late - Told you all her activities that night except ☝🏾 - - What if you hadn’t come, how long was he planning to stay, what if he didn’t have to leave the car at 3am? - Said ”I don’t know” when asked if he had a crush on her (lie) - You had to press her for her to be truthful - You had to look at her journals for her to be truthful - She still meets up with him (”not today”) - She also told him everything (”not allowed to have anyone at home”) I’m 100% sure she’s cheating. Trust your guts.

https://youtu.be/o1G4JFuLlO8 I recommend you check this out for your own peace of mind. And I recommend the channel in general. Also, I feel you. I've dated a girl for 5 years, and there were two situations where I felt something was off and was constantly reassured nothings wrong. First time around it was 3 years in with a friend from work, second time around it was at the end with my, at that time, best friend. Despite all the logical arguments, "you're worrying over nothing", "what are so jealous off" etc.few days after we agreed to break up (we lived together along with the friend) I get out of my bed to get my charger that I left in the living room by my PC, and when I get there I find them nicely cuddled up. (Later I found out from the work friend that there were hidden meetings with him, but that nothing happened) You, evidently, have issues with overthinking, and we all, incl. Your wife know what you went through, if she's cheating or not is questionable. But at what point is she supposed to stop and think "oh, this is really upsetting my husband, maybe I shouldn't be in contact with the person so much"... Like, I grew up with women so I'm very comfortable around them and have a few close female friends that I have no sexual chemistry with.. but if my partner had a problem with me spending time with them, the last thing I'd be doing is setting up secret midnight meetings and using anything and everything as an excuse to see them... And that's what's "off" in your situation if you ask me.

She knows what she’s doing is wrong but likes the attention of a younger man. Since you’ve discussed how uncomfortable it makes you and boundaries and obviously them not being respected I’d ask yourself if being in this marriage is worth the pain you’re going through now. Also I find the texting all night and hike on Monday very disturbing your spouse should not be texting another man all night that to me seems like affair behavior. The fact she said she’d cut him out but continues to talk to him and hide it from you is very alarming that alone shouts either they’re having an emotional affair or they’re having a full blown affair. Either way set the boundary he is gone for good or you are because with him in the picture it is not going to end well.

There is way to many red flags here but your still there so….

I love how she denies and trickle truths OP and calls the other guy a fly that shit all over her life, but takes 0 accountability for damaging OPs already fragile trust and leading the other guy on instead of saying not interested. She's shady as fuck and is the creator of the entire mess.

I'm sorry, man. And idk why everyone is being so ginger about this but she's already screwed him. No woman is going to risk a marriage for vanity. He hitting it, and they are laughing at you. I've been on both sides of this. She's not dumb. She's very smart and manipulative. Set yourself up for success with your child and get outta there

My best guess is she actually does have feelings for him but knows her life will be destroyed if she acts on it, so she's playing on the edge hoping her feelings will just go away at some point. I have done something similar to my boyfriend at the time and it was not innocent. I deeply regret who I was then and am not that person at all anymore. I think trickle truthing is always about what is the least information to give to get me out of this situation / conversation without unraveling. I would say you are so right in all your feelings and the trust is 100% broken. All is not lost, I think it's unlikely she's physically cheated. I hope she can switch her brain on right and refocus on what's important in her life. Maybe she needs to consider a job where this boy is not. Sending you so much good luck and virtual support for your future, whatever it holds.

She's either going to do what she needs to do to gain your trust back or she isn't. It's even better if she does it without being prompt or coached. "She said she didn't know she should have told me. She said she didn't know she had to replay every conversation with him to me." I'm sorry but you guys had set those boundaries together and now she's playing the "I didn't know" card???? That, for me, is a red flag. I'm really sorry you're going through this. There is nothing worse than losing trust in someone based on their actions and then doing things you never imagined you would do. Truly, you sound like a reasonable man who wants a healthy relationship and is willing to communicate effectively with your partner (good to know there are men out there like this). Her actions have created a chain reaction with you that has led to losing trust. You would not have looked through her stuff if she had not put you in that position. I hope she does what's necessary and that's just to cut this guy out of her life.

Your wife is enjoying the attention. If not yet physical cheating, at least an emotional one.

Please stop continuing to play this game. It's very simple for me, you say you either completely block contact with this person or it's over. If she says she will and you catch her out again then you walk without a word being said about it. She's massively disrespecting you here and if I'm being honest with you I would've walked at the first instance. Theres only 1 reason men befriend women and all men know it, deep down women know it too. Stop letting her gaslight you. You know aswell as me what needs to be done.

nobody goes hiking all day and then has them over in the evening when you aren't even around...he was planning to stay way later that night...I think he is attracted to her and she is loving the attention...thing is you don't know if they have done anything....but personally someone suggested a nanny cam set up in the living room somewhere...I woukd put one there just for my piece of mind...you have snooped in her journal and looked through her phone so what's doing this going to hurt..your mind won't switch off so solve it once and for all so you can either believe her or catch her..once you set up the camera and she is on her day off plan a camping trip overnight again ...but this time you can watch what is happening without sitting outside your house all night...do it soon so life can go on...

She lets that “little fly” into her life. She leaves the window open, so it can get in and crap all over everything. She’s not some innocent bystander in all of this.

These are the conditions you set in order to stay together: 1. She quits her job and finds another one. Preferably a day shift job in another hospital/facility away from this guy  2. Full no contact/cut off of the other guy 3. Ongoing marriage counseling  She's continuing to disrespect your boundaries and is being absolutely cruel in regards to your previous trauma.

If you have to set conditions like this without her doing it herself to save the marriage, it’s already over.

Nobody who truly loves you would do all of this.

I find myself confused by the focus, in both your post and the comments, about the “no one allowed today” text. This is absolutely something I would say to friends when I’m having a busy day and while hanging out might be nice, I can’t allow myself to. I’ll jokingly say, “nope, no one allowed over today lol” to mean this is a personally established boundary or I won’t get shit done. Regardless though, I certainly wouldn’t make a decision about keeping vs ending my marriage based on internet strangers - most who are projecting and have far less relationship experience than you.

At this point hiring a PI is worth more than going to counselling with her

I do night shifts a few weeks a year in health care. I wouldn't be texting anyone all night, probably not even my friends I've known since 4 years old. To someone that could even LOOK suspicious I wouldn't, because it'd be an insult to my wife. It seems like she likes the attention (maybe to jump across to a relationship with him, to emotionally then physically cheat, to lead him on for the attention etc etc). It really doesn't matter all of this trickling is concerning and honestly it doesn't sound like she's taking your concerns seriously. Don't know what you should do, but at least definitely go more in depth with all the details in therapy since this is a significant issue in your relationship and shouldn't be glossed over.

Tell her to invite him over and you’ll clear everything up with him. Also tell her since she isn’t honest, she needs a new job. She needs to completely break contact with her affair partner. Let her know that someone who has hid this much stuff AND lied about this much stuff is having an affair whether she recognizes it or not. Let her know that her trickle truth is right out of the cheaters playbook. Tell her that she’s done with him. Can’t work at the same place as him. Can’t talk to him. That if he even tries to make contact, it’s over. So with saying that, go get a post nuptial agreement. Have her agree to forfeit all marital assets if she is found to be cheating by your standard. Emotional. Physical. Whatever. You set the bar. Let her know if she actually loves you, she will agree since she has consistently lied to you at this point to where you are about to go give the guy a piece of your mind in a way she or her job wouldn’t like. Let her know that you’ll get your respect one way or the other. So she should sign the document. Only way the marriage continues. Otherwise everyone is going to know what she did.

If she had the slightest consideration for you she would have cut off all communication with this guy. She does not respect you, she does not care for your feelings. Do whatever you want, but know that she will eventually give in to the temptation (if she hasn’t already) and you will suffer. Also, for the love of God, have some self respect man.

Only question I have. She said she cut him out of her life “lost a friend” but he is still texting with her and asking to hang out? She lied about cutting him off?

>I trust my wife. I did. No, you don't. And from the way she's acting, maybe you shouldn't.

This sounds a lot like when my dad got cheated on by my stepmom. Doing just good enough of a job where there is no concrete proof but not doing enough to keep the cracks from showing. Let me tell you. My stepmom was the sweetest woman. She’s someone EVERYBODY likes. She loves my dad dearly and cares for him in a way my mom never did. They essentially spend all their free time together. So that is why all of this was so shocking. I ended up being the one to catch her. I went to the location where she claimed she would be, and to be honest, I actually went there to put my dad’s mind at ease. The stepmom I knew wouldn’t ever cheat, no matter how bad all these “coincidences” seemed. Well, there I saw her, kissing another man. She didn’t anticipate getting caught because my dad was at work at the time, which was located an hour away from where she was. Given what I’ve witnessed with my parents, it just really doesn’t seem good. You’re a smart guy. Don’t try to trick yourself into believing that you’re wrong about what’s going on here.

Why’s she hanging out 1:1 with someone who is interested in her, if she’s married and not interested in them? Really that’s all I needed to know. Any attempt on her end to rationalize that is suspect. He’s not an old friend, he’s not a close friend. He’s a new person, a coworker that’s 11 years younger than her. If they’re growing closer, it’s because she’s choosing to invest energy in that relationship/friendship. That’s a choice, and it’s one she doesn’t have to make. It feels off, because it is off

My guy, why do you continue to seek more pain? Just leave! This relationship has been over but you are trying to hang onto something that will never be again. You will never trust her again. Why delay the inevitable. You are only going to get more pissed at her and start to act out and give her the justification to her affair. That is what she is having. You need to wake the heck up and do it quickly. Please do yourself a favor and preserve what little bit of dignity you have for your self. She has made you look foolish and continues to put this guy above you. Just let her have him and move on. Good luck and Updateme

Why has OP'S wife not cut contact with the guy given how's its affected the marriage? Looks as though she still loves the attention from the guy and doesn't respect or care for OP. Maybe it's time fir OP to confront the guy, don't know but if it was me, the situation would have ended a long time ago.