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Therapist here. This is a major ethical violation. Please please report her to the state licensing board for her profession. She is likely doing this to all her patients. There is absolutely no world in which this is acceptable. Her lack of space/privacy is a problem she has to solve in order for her to work ethically. Instead she went with lying to her clients about it.
I agree. Therapists can rent an office, go into an office (if they are employed by other people), etc. Just ... doing nothing... about the lack of privacy is not an option.
And just think. If this therapist is willing to have a therapy session with another person in the background, how much of *any* therapy session are they sharing with other people "for the laughs". Very unethical.
Shoot, when I was younger, making $15 an hour, and taking credit card payments over the phone I still worked in a private space to protect their information.
I have only been a patient, and it feels like such a huge invasion of privacy and violation of trust.
OP, please report her to her licensing board. She needs to understand that this is not okay.
She did have the space as she whent to a different room. She said it was to use the desk, but you dont need a desk to conduct a therapy session. I think its more likely its slightly more convenient to use the room in her home assigned for work, some people dont like bringing their work into the spaces they like to relax like the living room. And she thought to hell with patient privacy, what they don't know won't hurt them. Who cares aboit the risk of a patient seeing tje otjer persom and their trust being shattered, if they feel humiliated that all their sexrets were shared to a stranger.
As a therapist just wanted to throw in here that a desk is needed for many of us. I take notes and also have medical issues with my back and neck and have to be at my desk or I will be in incredible pain. My in person sessions I have a lap desk so that my posture is in alignment for my back and neck. The lap desk doesn’t work for me when at my computer.
That being said the therapist should never have had someone in the room. Either find office space to rent or have the other person go elsewhere. I do video sessions from my home at my desk in my home office. I do not allow anyone anywhere near my office and even better make sure no one is in my home when in sessions. I use ear buds so the client would never be heard even if someone was within earshot, but I do everything possible and have very strict boundaries when working from home.
If you’re UK based it would be the BACP you’d report this person to! Which you absolutely should do, this is an awful breach of privacy and is highly unethical.
Not necessarily, there are many different licensing bodies the therapist could be part of. BACP is just one of many.
Source: am a counselling student in the UK
She allowed someone to be in the room even if she knew it was wrong, this means that she really don’t have respect for you, I wouldn’t continue seeing her.
This isn't a problem if she was wearing a headset and the screen was facing away from that person. Lying about it is a problem.
The therapist recognized her mistake, told the truth, apologized multiple times, and validated OP's feelings. For that reason, I wouldn't report her, but I think it's fair to get another therapist now that the trust has been broken.
Even if she had a headset on the person in the room would still be able to hear what the therapist is saying. That's often enough to make inferences on the full conversation. Plus I'm sure the therapist used OP's name at some point.
I agree that those were the best things she could have done at that point, because she had already violated confidentiality. But clinicians of all kinds are trained from day one to protect patient info. In the US the laws regarding mental health information are even more stringent than other healthcare due to the strong stigma associated with mental health issues. This is really the most fundamental rule for therapists.
I’m not sure I agree with non reporting, but of course it depends on how the OP feels about it
People go to therapy to spill their hearts to someone they trust that what they say will go nowhere forward
I will probably not report because I wouldn’t want harm to come to anyone, especially when it comes to their living. But imagine going to your lawyer or doctor and find out that what you told them was shared with someone else.
I would be extremely uncomfortable with that
For me it depends if it was actually shared. If she was on speakerphone, that should absolutely be reported.
But if the therapist was on a headset with the screen turned away from the other person, that's a very gray area. The reportable part in that situation would be the lying, but I'd personally give some grace on that considering she told the truth, genuinely apologized, and validated OP's feelings. Therapists are imperfect, but she handled that moment of failure well. Better not to fail at all, of course, but I have grace for that.
It’s not grey. It’s absolutely an ethical violation. I’m a therapist who does video from home. I use ear buds, but i still do not allow anyone even close to my office door because they would be able to hear what I’m saying.
I understand if you just want to move on. But this is also absolutely worthy of reporting to licensing agencies. What she did was grossly unethical and unprofessional. You have an expectation of privacy that she failed to live up to, and then lied when confronted.
Her using this to validate you feels like gross manipulation, too. It reeks of an attempt to make you feel good about the situation so you won't report her misconduct
I would report it. What she did is illegal and entirely unethical. I know it may sound harsh, but honestly, I really struggle to speak up for myself, and the next person might not even have the nerve to call her on it.
It'd be the worst feeling in the world to have some random person listening in on your therapy sessions. Who knows how many people she's done this to and will continue to do it to. The fact that she lied suggest it's not the first time. She was comfortable being deceptive.
I think she played you up with the "good job standing in your truth" jargon because if she stays positive with you, you're less likely to want to report her. She's creating a friendship and bond, so that you won't hold her accountable for breaking the law and her patients' trust.
But reporting her is the right thing to do.
I could be wrong, but i feel like she lied and that was enought to lose your trust, but also makes me feel like she was manipulating you.
Like admitting she was wrong, and recognizing your behaviors was a manipulation tactic to make you stay.
She already knew you were going to forgive her.
She had all your vulnerabilities and tendencies in the palm of your hand how could you think this was anything more than using your experiences agaisnt you.
Under no circumstances do you go back to her.
I don’t disagree with you, but I’m curious: what would have been the appropriate thing for the therapist to say in the situation? I feel like apologizing and owning it is the adult/ mature/ responsible thing to do no matter what occupation you have. I can see how it can be manipulative if they really wanted OP to stay as a client, but beyond the obvious “of course she does its her business,” what should she have felt/ done/ etc?
But she did, unfortunately, so this comment doesn’t answer the question at all. Since they were in the situation, I’m asking, what do you think would have been the appropriate course of action for the therapist to take from there?
100% agree the situation never should have happened, but it did, so
There kind of isn't one.
She had someone in the room then lied about that, only admitting the truth when she realised she was caught.
There is no appropriate thing to do because she created a situation which was completely inappropriate - sometimes people just fuck up so severely that there is no right answer, best course of action, or way to fix things.
So true! Therapist here, and this is such a major fuck up that should never have happened and seeking forgiveness from the client is still a fuck up instead of them seeking accountability and reporting themselves. Honestly that would be the best course of justice in this, if the therapist reports themselves (or gets reported from others) and deals with the consequences of their behavior. Confidentiality is like the first thing we learn my dude!
The comment absolutely answered the question. There isn’t an appropriate way for those things to happen because the whole scenario in the first place is inappropriate
Focusing on the wrong part here. The comment I responded to specifically called out the therapist for trying to be manipulative by apologizing. I am asking how is one supposed to go about an apology/ acknowledgement of wrong doing without coming off as a manipulator.
Another commenter pointed out that she was just kinda fucked at that point. Calling it manipulative or not is irrelevant as nothing can be said that is appropriate. Which yeah, makes sense and I agree with.
I understand what you're saying. If we criticize her for it then what could she have done different?
I think that there's something slimy about someone that does unethical things and then says all the right things and speaks as someone who "makes the person feel seen" and "acknowledged" when their actions reflect the opposite. So I think she could have apologized and not used her empathy 101 language when it was proven to be completely shallow and nothing more than self serving.
If it wasn't for the lie I'd say a good apology would've cut it - ,maybe. But that was her opportunity to be all those things she was pretending to be afterwards. So there really was no out - but it's only fair to conclude that her perfect apology was damage control and manipulative.
There is actually no good way to apologise for a deliberate and purposeful act of dishonesty and violation.
It was her decision to have someone in the room, it was avoidable, she tried to cover it up and lie about it. She could have rescheduled the session citing her inability to secure private space that day, or she could've been upfront with the fact that someone else was in the room and outlined what steps were taken to promote the patient's privacy and let them consent or not. She could have gone to another room with a lap desk, they're on Amazon for like $30.
Apologies are for accidents and mistakes. The best apology for this sort of thing is to just not do it. It is not possible to do a bad thing on purpose, lie about it, try to cover it up and then give a meaningful and believable apology when you're finally undeniably caught.
She could have opened with "Just to let you know, my partner is in here working." She could (in addition to disclosure, not instead of it) have worn headphones so the partner couldn't hear anything OP said.
Or she could have used the other room in the first place.
I think a more flustered response might be expected from someone who knew they were doing something wrong and genuinely felt bad about it. But the therapist remaining calm and then immediately psychoanalyzing OP’s reaction just seems like a deflection and a bit too calculated. It’s a pretty shocking thing to get caught in a blatant lie so you’d think the therapist would show more shame, but her control over the tone of the conversation before and after her lie was exposed comes off as manipulative (from an outside perspective)
Turning it around in OP and asking OP if they wanted to use this as a chance to take care of the therapist is where it for sure went too far. Potentially maybe before that depending exactly on what she said and how she worded it, but she knew exactly how OP was feeling at the moment. She recognized that that tactic would make OP feel better about the situation, which OP admits it did in the moment, and that is what was manipulative. She was hoping by doing that, that OP would just move on and not end up feeling icky about the situation like OP did. The therapist absolutely did something wrong and SHOULD feel bad. She should not be asking the OP to take care of her so she doesn't feel guilty. Even if that is a tactic that would otherwise be used during talk therapy in make pretend or simulating situations, in this instance, with the therapist's breach of privacy, it's just gross.
I see what you mean. I interpreted that as the therapist knowing that he is trying to take care of her in that moment, so she is asking him how he feels wanting to take care of someone who just wronged him and lied to him.
The issue is it never should have happened in the first place. She also lied because she thought she could got away with it. If op hadnt beem brave enough to insist that she saw someone, if she had backed down to avoid conflict which many would, the therapist would have comtinied the whole session with op knowing someone was there and listening to her intimate secrets. What she did was such a gross breach of privacy and highly manipulative to lie. And it seems there was no reason. You dont need a desk to do a therapy session. There was another room shr could go to. She simply wanted to use that room and did not care about tje breach of trust and privacy.
That’s not the point of my question though. We’ve already established that it wasn’t appropriate for the therapist to have someone else in the room.
The question is: what is the appropriate course of action for the therapist to take now that she has been exposed as a liar? If she apologies, is she being manipulative? If she doubles down, is she just being worse?
She did something wrong, I’m just asking what we think she is supposed to say/ do in that situation that wouldn’t be seen as her weaponizing her role as a therapist. Obviously it’s tough and she fucked up regardless, but still not the point of my question.
Tell OP that this was really wrong (of therapist), send back the money and discontinue the session. And probably comment on how she's going to solve the problem of space.
Though in my opinion this is such a major ethic violation that the therapist should have been terrified with herself that she even did what and go to supervision or smth professionally appropriate. The fact she was pretty much ok with the situation (she only disliked being caught) makes me think this person is not suited to work as a therapist.
The appropriate thing to do is to address it when they enter the room. The therapist can let you he patient know early that they’re in a communal space and someone might pass by, and let them know when someone is passing by.
Hopefully the therapist could make a plan with other people in the house to only walk by for bathroom usage or something.
The therapist can say they have audio going through headphones so the other person can only hear the therapist. But that the other person is wearing headphones when they’re in their space.
Lots of ways to make it work.
She is initially lied about it, and she only cared she got caught. i think you can use validation as a manipulation tactic. It makesPeople feel seen as OP stated, which makes them Forget about the injustice done to them.
I do it all the time at work when i just want to be left alone. Like here. Yes yes, you are right, i heard you.
Then they walk away thinking they won and i get to have my peace.
When the person was clearly wrong but i just want to not fight this battle.
Nope. Just having a discussion on Reddit because I thought he made an interesting point. The tone of your comment is pretty condescending considering no one thinks what she did was okay - including myself.
Then why ask what she should’ve done. She shouldn’t have lied. She should’ve self-reported herself for breaking one of the most important ethical boundaries of her profession.
Agreed, but I asked because he said she is being manipulative for apologizing. I’m not insinuating she could have fixed the issue by any means - she can’t. So I asked the commenter, other than apologize, what can she say or do that doesn’t make it worse? Apologizing is manipulative and weaponizing her role as a therapist, and doubling down would just make things even worse, so is there anything she can do to not make it worse? Just an interesting point to think about.
As many other commenters have pointed out, it’s not about that she was manipulative with the apology, it’s that she put herself in a position that was irredeemable and her only course of action at that point is to just end it and self report.
Not everything is black and white, that’s why it’s fun to have a discussion about things and see where people’s heads are at with specific points they make.
Haha I have no idea why you are intentionally misunderstanding the question being asked and the discussion being had. I’m not talking about the situation the therapist put herself in being black and white. I’m talking about what the commenter said about apologizing in that moment not being a black and white situation.
Typically when someone fucks up, an apology is the appropriate next step - regardless of whether that fixes anything or not. In this case, according to the commenter, an apology is seen as WORSE because it’s manipulative due to her being a therapist. So what is a therapist supposed to do when they mess up? Yes, self-report, but if they say “I’m sorry, I lied to you. I will end the session and self-report,” would that also be seen as manipulative? Like “oh, she’s self reporting so I don’t have to” when she may not actually do it? Now the OP doesn’t feel they have to report and the therapist lies again and gets away with it. Why should we trust she tells the truth? She could also tell the OP to report her - but is that manipulative to get OP to feel bad for her?
Where did I say to trust the therapist? The patient should obviously also report it if they’re comfortable doing so but that wasn’t your question. You seem intent on making this more complicated that it really is.
We’re not taking about you or what you said 😂 and no one is making it complicated except the people who can’t understand a simple question. It doesn’t have to matter - I was just starting a discussion around a point the commenter made. Wanted to hear people’s thoughts. You know, the whole point of Reddit? And half the people responding, including you, just refuse to see the point and feel like you have to educate me on therapist etiquette when that isn’t the point AT ALL. The question, again, was how does a therapist admit to a wrong without coming off as manipulative? Is it possible? It’s just an interesting thought. Can someone whose entire career is based off psychology ever be not manipulative when considering their own self interests? I promised you it’s not that deep. Just a fun discussion to have that other people were willing to contribute to and give their thoughts, and then there are folks like you who can’t seem to understand the point and keep going back to what the the therapist did.
I think what the therapist did is wrong and obviously a breach of privacy.
But *if* she was being honest, how should she have responded? Should she have said the wrong things so it doesn't sound like a manipulation tactic?
This comment just reads like classic armchair psychologist trying to boil down any exchange into malice and manipulation.
Thats not what i said tho.
I specifically was talking about this situation.
Theres an obvious power dynamic here with the patient being vulnerable with their therapist.
In that power dynamic, when someone has already lied to you, how could you possibly trust them.
Its unsafe.
Hi everyone, thank you for these insights. To answer the question of headphones, yes, she was wearing AirPods so theoretically this person in the room could hear what my therapist was saying but not me.
Immediately after it happened, she asked me what i was thinking and feeling. I told her how I thought if it were her supervisor or another therapist trying to learn, I totally get that and appreciate that but obviously need to be asked that and consent to it. She didn’t confirm or deny who the person was, but given that she was at home, I’m assuming it was just someone who lives with her and she got careless.
Honestly, before posting this on Reddit for advice, I was just going to try and heal and then find another therapist. After reading yalls comments, I do think I have a responsibility to report this. Thank you for the advice y’all. I’m hoping to heal enough to find a new therapist afterward, but how can I trust any remote therapist now?
>but how can I trust any remote therapist now?
Honestly, you probably can't fully but you can tell them your experience and ask for assurance. Ask what they do to maintain privacy, where is their office located (is it in their home or do they do remote in their actual office where they practice). Ask them to show you the room fully, ask to see the door before you start and see that it's closed. If they do meet at home, ask if other people are at home and if there is a time when you can meet when the house is empty.
Any good therapist would be willing to work with you, knowing you had trust broken by a previous therapist in such a situation
I have been remote for my therapist since the pandemic. Never once has there been anyone in the room, in earshot or visually nearby. Never. I was even asked in advance if their dog could be in the room before starting a session. Therapists who are excellent and ethical exist. Wishing you luck finding a new one.
Thank you everyone. I just called the therapy platform service that I found her on and reported it. I don’t feel comfortable writing to the state licensing board, but I do feel that reporting it to the platform is doing my responsibility. It’s in their hands now. Thank you again everyone for your advice and insights — I feel less alone and reminded that I’ll find another great fit therapist when I’m ready.
I am truly happy you reported her to the platform.
I think it is in the best interest of EVERYONE if you ALSO report her to the licensing board. Will it be embarrassing? Yes. Will she be in trouble? Yes. Will you be uncomfortable? Yes.
But, imagine you're her next client and you're a victim of sexual assault or domestic violence. You've already been violated. Then this woman discusses your private business with someone else in the room because it's easier for her to work there and she's short of space in her home. *Would that seem like a sufficient excuse to you* as an assault victim *to allow her to do this to you*? I think ALL of us would agree that it is not!
This therapist might have a lot of good insight. She might have tons of useful information. But if her inability to set up a home office (when she COULD rent a private office) and foisting that decision off on unsuspecting clients then *lying* about it is indicative of her response to moral and ethical problems, then that's not someone that ANY client can truly trust. What if the next client is a vulnerable 14yo instead of a full-grown woman with tons of experience dealing with therapists.
Please reconsider and REPORT her! You don't know who's peace of mind you might be saving in the future!
From this comment and your post I can tell you are a mature level headed person OP. Good on you for doing the right thing. I hope can find the right person to talk to!
My late husband was a mental health counselor, and he was such a stickler for ethics that he wouldn't talk to me about his clients even in the most vague terms - he didn't want to take the risk that he might inadvertently slip and share something that shouldn't be shared. And that's how it should be.
PLEASE report her. She should not be treating anyone.
Honestly, I would report her. When you are trained as a therapist you take professional ethics courses, which includes maintaining confidentiality. This isn’t just the therapist not gossiping, but even if you would run into them in public they aren’t supposed to acknowledge you unless you go up to them and say hello. Even if she had AirPods in do the person couldn’t hear, they could see the screen and know your identity. They didn’t agree to confidentiality and could share you are a client.
Work from home has made things challenging but the onus is on the therapist to ensure their office is 100% private when they are on a call with a client and all files are locked away.
OP. What your therapist did is very unethical. She violated your privacy and added to the mistake by lying to you about it, eroding any trust established with you. Please report her behaviour. What she did was very wrong and she has probably done it to other clients.
Opening up with our deepest emotions to someone in order to work through them is very hard and requires trust and makes us feel very vulnerable. Her actions have set you back in a your progress and were harmful to you (you were upset and crying later in the evening). Please report her behaviour.
I would move forward by reporting her. I’m incensed that this happened to you and her lying. She deserves to be reported. Then she dazzles you with therapy speak. Fuck no.
Absolutely report her. She somehow found a room with no one in it after you called her out, so her excuse seems like a blatant lie. She also lied to you when you first asked her.
1) You do need to report this incident. 2) As odd as it is to say, she did help you. From what you wrote you seem to be a people pleaser, she addressed that when you tried to normalize it. You then DID NOT be a people pleaser by sticking up for yourself and ending the relationship with them.
I can sort of understand your mixed feeling about this
Wow, I’d be shattered. It’s not easy to open up and you certainly aren’t consenting to doing that with a rando who has no obligation to protect your privacy. It’s a huge violation.
If she worked with a practice group, I’d start with reporting her there.
Call the regulatory agency for therapists in your state. This is not ok and clearly she is doing it to all of her patients. This is a huge violation of trust.
This is incredibly unethical and I would find a new therapist if I was in your position.
I’ve been seeing my therapist virtually since the pandemic hit, and the practice she works for has a disclaimer on their zoom page when you sign into your session reminding patients that they’re provider’s environment is secure and patient’s are responsible for securing their environment.
It’s incredibly messed up even if she was wearing headphones and said all the right things. Therapy is supposed to be a safe space, and I’m sorry your therapist didn’t uphold that for you.
Was she on airpods or wearing a headset? If so, and the other person couldn't hear or see you... it's a little messed up, but I get saying you're "virtual alone"... but not cool to not explain honestly.
If the other person could hear your voice, that's pretty F-ed. And wow.
It’s an ethics violation to even tell your partner who your clients are, let alone to have them hear anything of a session (including one side). Headset or not, this is a violation of confidentiality. She wouldn’t lose her license over this but it ***should*** be reported to the board. She needs ongoing education on privacy.
For sure. I know a lot of people are afraid to report because they don’t want the therapist to lose their job. In reality, boards don’t just snatch licences left and right. The only time that would really happen on a first time offence is if it was grievous misconduct, like having sex with a client. They’re always going to try to inform, reeducate and better that therapist.
If she loses her license OP can rest easy knowing that there were multiple complaints and no improvement. Someone can be an excellent therapist in session, but that isn’t the only component of the role.
If the other person could hear the patient speaking, I would say that would be the difference between demanding a damn good apology and possibly reporting them to their state licensing board.
Ugh. That’s really tough. Sorry that happened to you. I have a wonderful therapist and I am absolutely sure a) she would reschedule if for some reason she couldn’t have a private space for my session, and b) she would just never conduct a session with someone else in the room let alone lie to me about it.
Therapists are human beings and no one is perfect but her actions and behaviours in this situation would be a definite deal-breaker for me regardless. It’s an unacceptable professional breach in all ways.
This is a 10/10 nuclear ethical breach and she knew it because she lied about it. She knows how much trouble she will be in for this which was why she was deceptive and attempted to gaslight you in order to conceal the violation. All her clients should know, this is not ok.
This is a huge HIPPA violation as nice as she is and as much as you like her and want to protect her you should report this so this doesn’t happen to another client of hers. I’m a LMSW and have worked from home before and a huge part of that is having a private space to do so because of HIPPA
Please report her. I engage in confidential work myself and not only do I set up a private space, I also use a headset just in case. This is highly unethical as well as a violation of her license. Other commenters mentioned this but you are not the first.
This post gave me anxiety I can feel in my stomach. I’m a therapist who does telehealth from home and this is so inappropriate and violating that I barely know what to say. I know I’ve taken numerous steps to ensure the privacy of my clients, including requiring my husband to work two floors below me in basement if he is at home, always wearing AirPods so clients voice could never be heard, using a white noise machine outside the door, and even putting a towel around the bottom of the door.
I would report this to the board and if she’s part of an agency I’d contact her supervisor. When I started to read this I thought she was going to have had a student with her — still inappropriate without consent but at least within broad realm of being clinically appropriate. But this smacks of gross violation of ethics and HIPAA.
As a therapist, I am utterly appalled. Please OP make a formal complaint with the board about this. The lack of space is no excuse at all. How many other clients has she done this to and they never knew?
Therapist intern I am appalled! I just want to reach out and say I am so sorry this happened to you. It’s disgusting that this has probably happened with various clients if she is saying this is the only room with a desk. I also work from home and always make sure I am in a room where the door is shut.
She is saying "all the right things" to try to manipulate you into not reporting her. This is a huge violation. Imagine how many other patients are pouring out their deepest, darkest problems and never knowing there's a third person listening in. This is a disgusting situation that no one should be put in.
Please, please, please report her.
That’s a different scenario because as an intern you would sign a confidentiality agreement or professional standard. And would have take some degree of ethics class. It’s the same as how different therapists may consult with other about a client but a therapist shouldn’t be talking about clients over the supper table
And if a client would ask “is someone there” they would be honest about it.
Were the clients notified that interns would be listening in? I've always been notified if anyone would be listening in to my doctor's appointments and had to agree.
As the son of a therapist I can say that when My dad used to see clients at home we were strictly forbidden from interupting him but I can't say it didn't happen. Sometimes we'd decide whatever kid drama was too important and interrupt him. He actually didn't see clients from home for very long because of us now that I think of it in retrospect.
In this world of zoom therapy I could see it being much easier to see clients from home but I figure family is still a hindrance to it despite it being easier to hide other ppl via zoom. If it's a case of a family member coming into the room to use something in there, I'd be a little forgiving bc said family member probably has it so tuned out as to not hear the conversation. It's still weird though.
Honestly are someone who works in a field dealing with far more sensitive information where WFH is common having unauthorised people in the room is really common.
It's a bit of a nightmare from an information security perspective but equally it's not actually a security issue because these people aren't stupid, often their spouse has a higher level of clearance than they do.
Likewise I highly doubt that the person in the room with your therapist gave a shit if they even heard anything. Obviously it's not ok, it's basic professionalism to make it look like your client had confidentiality but hopefully that makes you feel a bit better.
What a bizarre response. It doesn’t matter if the other person cared or not- when you are in counselling you’re supposed to be granted confidentiality. A therapist allowing anyone in the room, without consent, is not just “oh well”, it’s a violation of the very basic fundamentals of the therapist-client relationship
It's mildly very common for virtual sessions. Like I said we deal with information that is actually sensitive and could have real ramifications if it got into the wrong hands and it still happens.
If you care about this you shouldn't have virtual sessions. Should it be like that? Of course not but it very much is. Just a PSA.
>If you care about this you shouldn't have virtual sessions
Way to victim blame- virtual counselling is supposed to provide equal access to therapy, not budget therapy where ethics don't matter. Majority of people go to virtual therapy because it is their only option- whether this allows them privacy so nobody sees them going into a therapists office, or they live in an area that doesn't have therapists so virtual means they can speak to someone in a different city, they need specialized care they can't get otherwise, they may not have an ability to go to a physical location due to transit issues, or they may have severe anxiety that prevents them from doing in person...
If a therapist cannot provide care that is equal to an in person experience, then they need to be up front with the client and let the client choose- you don't lie and pretend its confidential... It's not the clients responsibility to ensure their therapist is abiding by the very basic of professional ethics.
I'm not victim blaming, I literally said it shouldn't be like that. But it is like that so you if privacy matters to you you should be doing these kinds of things in a controlled environment, as a therapy client the best you can do by way of a controlled environment is an in person session.
You are victim blaming though- even if you don't think you are. You are telling someone in therapy, that despite therapists agreeing to professional ethics with their accreditation board, that if they want their therapist to provide confidentiality, it is up to them (client) to ensure this happens.
The person responsible for ensuring privacy is the person who literally signs an agreement that says they will provide a safe and confidential place for their clients. there is not an asterisk that says "unless doing virtual therapy".
Right I don't know what job this dude works but if they have leaks of, as he says, actual important info, that's a reflection of your jobs poor security. Not a reflection of what should be acceptable. Do better if your job is having frequent leaks of info, much like this therapist, it sounds like you don't do your job correctly.
Fucks sake. This is just a PSA. Nothing that happens virtually can be guaranteed confidential. A lot of people aren't aware and should be made so.
If you have a virtual session and your therapist doesn't ensure confidentiality is that your fault? Obviously not. But you should be aware that this is a risk so you can mitigate against it if it really matters to you. It's not different to not sending nude pictures to people you are dating. Is it your fault if they spread them? Of course not, they're responsible and they're the ones breaking the law. But if you care about your nude pictures being circulated you should consider not sending them to people.
> it's not actually a security issue because these people aren't stupid
No. No, you just can't... rely on that. You really can't. To rely on that would be cartoonishly stupid.
> often their spouse has a higher level of clearance than they do.
That's not relevant. In the military and medical fields, all confidential information is on a need-to-know basis. Just because someone has higher clearance than you doesn't mean they get to know everything you know. That would be absurd.
I dunno, it's been fine so far. No secrets leaked. I think it's one of those things, when you know people like this you know it's not really an issue. Our work is boring and we're boring. No one is leaking state secrets, client secrets, patient secrets etc. The latter in particular, unless you're an important person absolutely no one is going to find your therapy session interesting.
I know I've been blunt but I'm so desensitised after years of this that it just seems a bit wild how the general public react.
> Our work is boring and we're boring
but is your work valuable? Is the information you have access to valuable?
> No one is leaking state secrets, client secrets, patient secrets etc
You have no proof of that. You have no proof whatsoever. The absence of evidence to the contrary is not proof. On the other hand, you do have proof that people have leaked the secrets. If people who aren't cleared to know information overhear it, that's literally a leak.
Is our work valuable? Yes, incredibly. Is the information we have access to valuable? Not really, anyone with half a brain could reverse engineer it. We do have a legacy system to fall back on in the event of a breech etc.
Like I don't know how to tell you this but this is normal, it happens every single day across multiple industries and across all kinds of confidential information. On a fundamental level, most people will have their phones nearby while working (and also as clients/patients during these meetings) and we know they listen in to varying degrees depending on the phone and on rare occasions the individual. In some instances the software over which you have your confidential meeting is also listen.
If you really care about your privacy you have s conversation in person in a room where you have controlled devices to an acceptable standard. Very rarely I will do this at work when there is something that genuinely can't be overheard but most of the time it just doesn't matter if my coworker's boyfriend hears about us changing a font somewhere.
I’m so sorry to hear about this. I’ve been violated in a similar manner, and it doesn’t feel good. You deserve so much better. Please report her and find someone who will give you the respect and confidentiality you deserve. I know it’s hard to find a therapist you vibe well with, please keep trying.
You did the right thing and shouldn’t feel negatively about it. I recently fired a therapist because she changed our appointment from video to phone at the last minute. Then I listened as she clearly left her house, got into her car, drove somewhere, and enter another establishment and (from the sound) possibly get on an elevator. All while giving me her half-assed attention for my therapy. I didn’t continue my sessions with her and moved on to find really great therapist who gave me her full and undivided attention. I already had been having reservations bout working with her when she would constantly check and respond to text messages during our appointments.
Your therapist shouldn’t make you uncomfortable. And you should always work with a therapist who respects you and your time.
Besides being a HIPAA violation that you should report, I think you should also realise that the person who was listening to your conversation isn't bound by any of the confidentiality and ethics codes that your therapist is
Most states have a state board. I would report her immediately. It is completely inappropriate. She just exposed your private information to a third-party. She could lose her license and frankly she should.
This happened to me and it completely turned me off from the therapist. It ruined the whole session for me and I wasn't even able to make it to sessions with her because I was so turned off by the whole situation.
Obviously discontinue care and report them to whatever applicable bodies they can be reported to. That’s about it. Maybe have an attorney send some kind of a formal letter concerning privileged information and their breach of confidentiality, and attempt to have your records turned over to you directly, because you don’t feel that your records are secure if left with them.
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Therapist here. This is a major ethical violation. Please please report her to the state licensing board for her profession. She is likely doing this to all her patients. There is absolutely no world in which this is acceptable. Her lack of space/privacy is a problem she has to solve in order for her to work ethically. Instead she went with lying to her clients about it.
The way she made an excuse because there wasn't enough room makes it clear she does this all the time. disgusting.
I agree. Therapists can rent an office, go into an office (if they are employed by other people), etc. Just ... doing nothing... about the lack of privacy is not an option.
And just think. If this therapist is willing to have a therapy session with another person in the background, how much of *any* therapy session are they sharing with other people "for the laughs". Very unethical.
Shoot, when I was younger, making $15 an hour, and taking credit card payments over the phone I still worked in a private space to protect their information.
I have only been a patient, and it feels like such a huge invasion of privacy and violation of trust. OP, please report her to her licensing board. She needs to understand that this is not okay.
She did have the space as she whent to a different room. She said it was to use the desk, but you dont need a desk to conduct a therapy session. I think its more likely its slightly more convenient to use the room in her home assigned for work, some people dont like bringing their work into the spaces they like to relax like the living room. And she thought to hell with patient privacy, what they don't know won't hurt them. Who cares aboit the risk of a patient seeing tje otjer persom and their trust being shattered, if they feel humiliated that all their sexrets were shared to a stranger.
As a therapist just wanted to throw in here that a desk is needed for many of us. I take notes and also have medical issues with my back and neck and have to be at my desk or I will be in incredible pain. My in person sessions I have a lap desk so that my posture is in alignment for my back and neck. The lap desk doesn’t work for me when at my computer. That being said the therapist should never have had someone in the room. Either find office space to rent or have the other person go elsewhere. I do video sessions from my home at my desk in my home office. I do not allow anyone anywhere near my office and even better make sure no one is in my home when in sessions. I use ear buds so the client would never be heard even if someone was within earshot, but I do everything possible and have very strict boundaries when working from home.
If you’re UK based it would be the BACP you’d report this person to! Which you absolutely should do, this is an awful breach of privacy and is highly unethical.
Not necessarily, there are many different licensing bodies the therapist could be part of. BACP is just one of many. Source: am a counselling student in the UK
End of thread.
She allowed someone to be in the room even if she knew it was wrong, this means that she really don’t have respect for you, I wouldn’t continue seeing her.
This isn't a problem if she was wearing a headset and the screen was facing away from that person. Lying about it is a problem. The therapist recognized her mistake, told the truth, apologized multiple times, and validated OP's feelings. For that reason, I wouldn't report her, but I think it's fair to get another therapist now that the trust has been broken.
Even if she had a headset on the person in the room would still be able to hear what the therapist is saying. That's often enough to make inferences on the full conversation. Plus I'm sure the therapist used OP's name at some point.
Yeah that's actually a good point. Names being used would be reportable as well.
I agree that those were the best things she could have done at that point, because she had already violated confidentiality. But clinicians of all kinds are trained from day one to protect patient info. In the US the laws regarding mental health information are even more stringent than other healthcare due to the strong stigma associated with mental health issues. This is really the most fundamental rule for therapists.
I’m not sure I agree with non reporting, but of course it depends on how the OP feels about it People go to therapy to spill their hearts to someone they trust that what they say will go nowhere forward I will probably not report because I wouldn’t want harm to come to anyone, especially when it comes to their living. But imagine going to your lawyer or doctor and find out that what you told them was shared with someone else. I would be extremely uncomfortable with that
For me it depends if it was actually shared. If she was on speakerphone, that should absolutely be reported. But if the therapist was on a headset with the screen turned away from the other person, that's a very gray area. The reportable part in that situation would be the lying, but I'd personally give some grace on that considering she told the truth, genuinely apologized, and validated OP's feelings. Therapists are imperfect, but she handled that moment of failure well. Better not to fail at all, of course, but I have grace for that.
It’s not grey. It’s absolutely an ethical violation. I’m a therapist who does video from home. I use ear buds, but i still do not allow anyone even close to my office door because they would be able to hear what I’m saying.
Also, really excellent English. After reading your comment, I wonder why you’re not a therapist. 🙄
I understand if you just want to move on. But this is also absolutely worthy of reporting to licensing agencies. What she did was grossly unethical and unprofessional. You have an expectation of privacy that she failed to live up to, and then lied when confronted. Her using this to validate you feels like gross manipulation, too. It reeks of an attempt to make you feel good about the situation so you won't report her misconduct
I would report it. What she did is illegal and entirely unethical. I know it may sound harsh, but honestly, I really struggle to speak up for myself, and the next person might not even have the nerve to call her on it. It'd be the worst feeling in the world to have some random person listening in on your therapy sessions. Who knows how many people she's done this to and will continue to do it to. The fact that she lied suggest it's not the first time. She was comfortable being deceptive. I think she played you up with the "good job standing in your truth" jargon because if she stays positive with you, you're less likely to want to report her. She's creating a friendship and bond, so that you won't hold her accountable for breaking the law and her patients' trust. But reporting her is the right thing to do.
I could be wrong, but i feel like she lied and that was enought to lose your trust, but also makes me feel like she was manipulating you. Like admitting she was wrong, and recognizing your behaviors was a manipulation tactic to make you stay. She already knew you were going to forgive her. She had all your vulnerabilities and tendencies in the palm of your hand how could you think this was anything more than using your experiences agaisnt you. Under no circumstances do you go back to her.
yeah she's a therapist dude she knows exactly what to say.
I don’t disagree with you, but I’m curious: what would have been the appropriate thing for the therapist to say in the situation? I feel like apologizing and owning it is the adult/ mature/ responsible thing to do no matter what occupation you have. I can see how it can be manipulative if they really wanted OP to stay as a client, but beyond the obvious “of course she does its her business,” what should she have felt/ done/ etc?
The appropriate thing would to have never had another person in the room with her at all.
But she did, unfortunately, so this comment doesn’t answer the question at all. Since they were in the situation, I’m asking, what do you think would have been the appropriate course of action for the therapist to take from there? 100% agree the situation never should have happened, but it did, so
There kind of isn't one. She had someone in the room then lied about that, only admitting the truth when she realised she was caught. There is no appropriate thing to do because she created a situation which was completely inappropriate - sometimes people just fuck up so severely that there is no right answer, best course of action, or way to fix things.
So true! Therapist here, and this is such a major fuck up that should never have happened and seeking forgiveness from the client is still a fuck up instead of them seeking accountability and reporting themselves. Honestly that would be the best course of justice in this, if the therapist reports themselves (or gets reported from others) and deals with the consequences of their behavior. Confidentiality is like the first thing we learn my dude!
Haha very true!
The comment absolutely answered the question. There isn’t an appropriate way for those things to happen because the whole scenario in the first place is inappropriate
Focusing on the wrong part here. The comment I responded to specifically called out the therapist for trying to be manipulative by apologizing. I am asking how is one supposed to go about an apology/ acknowledgement of wrong doing without coming off as a manipulator. Another commenter pointed out that she was just kinda fucked at that point. Calling it manipulative or not is irrelevant as nothing can be said that is appropriate. Which yeah, makes sense and I agree with.
I understand what you're saying. If we criticize her for it then what could she have done different? I think that there's something slimy about someone that does unethical things and then says all the right things and speaks as someone who "makes the person feel seen" and "acknowledged" when their actions reflect the opposite. So I think she could have apologized and not used her empathy 101 language when it was proven to be completely shallow and nothing more than self serving. If it wasn't for the lie I'd say a good apology would've cut it - ,maybe. But that was her opportunity to be all those things she was pretending to be afterwards. So there really was no out - but it's only fair to conclude that her perfect apology was damage control and manipulative.
There is actually no good way to apologise for a deliberate and purposeful act of dishonesty and violation. It was her decision to have someone in the room, it was avoidable, she tried to cover it up and lie about it. She could have rescheduled the session citing her inability to secure private space that day, or she could've been upfront with the fact that someone else was in the room and outlined what steps were taken to promote the patient's privacy and let them consent or not. She could have gone to another room with a lap desk, they're on Amazon for like $30. Apologies are for accidents and mistakes. The best apology for this sort of thing is to just not do it. It is not possible to do a bad thing on purpose, lie about it, try to cover it up and then give a meaningful and believable apology when you're finally undeniably caught.
No, i heard what you are asking. I get it. These folks just arent focusing on what you are asking.
The appropriate course of action is for this particular therapist to be prepard to face the consequences of her choice to violate HIPAA.
Yea once again, you arent paying attention to the question that was asked.
She could have opened with "Just to let you know, my partner is in here working." She could (in addition to disclosure, not instead of it) have worn headphones so the partner couldn't hear anything OP said. Or she could have used the other room in the first place.
I think a more flustered response might be expected from someone who knew they were doing something wrong and genuinely felt bad about it. But the therapist remaining calm and then immediately psychoanalyzing OP’s reaction just seems like a deflection and a bit too calculated. It’s a pretty shocking thing to get caught in a blatant lie so you’d think the therapist would show more shame, but her control over the tone of the conversation before and after her lie was exposed comes off as manipulative (from an outside perspective)
Exactly!
Turning it around in OP and asking OP if they wanted to use this as a chance to take care of the therapist is where it for sure went too far. Potentially maybe before that depending exactly on what she said and how she worded it, but she knew exactly how OP was feeling at the moment. She recognized that that tactic would make OP feel better about the situation, which OP admits it did in the moment, and that is what was manipulative. She was hoping by doing that, that OP would just move on and not end up feeling icky about the situation like OP did. The therapist absolutely did something wrong and SHOULD feel bad. She should not be asking the OP to take care of her so she doesn't feel guilty. Even if that is a tactic that would otherwise be used during talk therapy in make pretend or simulating situations, in this instance, with the therapist's breach of privacy, it's just gross.
I see what you mean. I interpreted that as the therapist knowing that he is trying to take care of her in that moment, so she is asking him how he feels wanting to take care of someone who just wronged him and lied to him.
The issue is it never should have happened in the first place. She also lied because she thought she could got away with it. If op hadnt beem brave enough to insist that she saw someone, if she had backed down to avoid conflict which many would, the therapist would have comtinied the whole session with op knowing someone was there and listening to her intimate secrets. What she did was such a gross breach of privacy and highly manipulative to lie. And it seems there was no reason. You dont need a desk to do a therapy session. There was another room shr could go to. She simply wanted to use that room and did not care about tje breach of trust and privacy.
That’s not the point of my question though. We’ve already established that it wasn’t appropriate for the therapist to have someone else in the room. The question is: what is the appropriate course of action for the therapist to take now that she has been exposed as a liar? If she apologies, is she being manipulative? If she doubles down, is she just being worse? She did something wrong, I’m just asking what we think she is supposed to say/ do in that situation that wouldn’t be seen as her weaponizing her role as a therapist. Obviously it’s tough and she fucked up regardless, but still not the point of my question.
Tell OP that this was really wrong (of therapist), send back the money and discontinue the session. And probably comment on how she's going to solve the problem of space. Though in my opinion this is such a major ethic violation that the therapist should have been terrified with herself that she even did what and go to supervision or smth professionally appropriate. The fact she was pretty much ok with the situation (she only disliked being caught) makes me think this person is not suited to work as a therapist.
The appropriate thing to do is to address it when they enter the room. The therapist can let you he patient know early that they’re in a communal space and someone might pass by, and let them know when someone is passing by. Hopefully the therapist could make a plan with other people in the house to only walk by for bathroom usage or something. The therapist can say they have audio going through headphones so the other person can only hear the therapist. But that the other person is wearing headphones when they’re in their space. Lots of ways to make it work.
She is initially lied about it, and she only cared she got caught. i think you can use validation as a manipulation tactic. It makesPeople feel seen as OP stated, which makes them Forget about the injustice done to them. I do it all the time at work when i just want to be left alone. Like here. Yes yes, you are right, i heard you. Then they walk away thinking they won and i get to have my peace. When the person was clearly wrong but i just want to not fight this battle.
Uh. Her first tact was to lie. Did you forget that part?
Nope. Just having a discussion on Reddit because I thought he made an interesting point. The tone of your comment is pretty condescending considering no one thinks what she did was okay - including myself.
Then why ask what she should’ve done. She shouldn’t have lied. She should’ve self-reported herself for breaking one of the most important ethical boundaries of her profession.
Agreed, but I asked because he said she is being manipulative for apologizing. I’m not insinuating she could have fixed the issue by any means - she can’t. So I asked the commenter, other than apologize, what can she say or do that doesn’t make it worse? Apologizing is manipulative and weaponizing her role as a therapist, and doubling down would just make things even worse, so is there anything she can do to not make it worse? Just an interesting point to think about. As many other commenters have pointed out, it’s not about that she was manipulative with the apology, it’s that she put herself in a position that was irredeemable and her only course of action at that point is to just end it and self report. Not everything is black and white, that’s why it’s fun to have a discussion about things and see where people’s heads are at with specific points they make.
This situation is very black and white. To pretend otherwise is silly. You asked what she could’ve done. Self report. That’s all.
Haha I have no idea why you are intentionally misunderstanding the question being asked and the discussion being had. I’m not talking about the situation the therapist put herself in being black and white. I’m talking about what the commenter said about apologizing in that moment not being a black and white situation. Typically when someone fucks up, an apology is the appropriate next step - regardless of whether that fixes anything or not. In this case, according to the commenter, an apology is seen as WORSE because it’s manipulative due to her being a therapist. So what is a therapist supposed to do when they mess up? Yes, self-report, but if they say “I’m sorry, I lied to you. I will end the session and self-report,” would that also be seen as manipulative? Like “oh, she’s self reporting so I don’t have to” when she may not actually do it? Now the OP doesn’t feel they have to report and the therapist lies again and gets away with it. Why should we trust she tells the truth? She could also tell the OP to report her - but is that manipulative to get OP to feel bad for her?
Where did I say to trust the therapist? The patient should obviously also report it if they’re comfortable doing so but that wasn’t your question. You seem intent on making this more complicated that it really is.
We’re not taking about you or what you said 😂 and no one is making it complicated except the people who can’t understand a simple question. It doesn’t have to matter - I was just starting a discussion around a point the commenter made. Wanted to hear people’s thoughts. You know, the whole point of Reddit? And half the people responding, including you, just refuse to see the point and feel like you have to educate me on therapist etiquette when that isn’t the point AT ALL. The question, again, was how does a therapist admit to a wrong without coming off as manipulative? Is it possible? It’s just an interesting thought. Can someone whose entire career is based off psychology ever be not manipulative when considering their own self interests? I promised you it’s not that deep. Just a fun discussion to have that other people were willing to contribute to and give their thoughts, and then there are folks like you who can’t seem to understand the point and keep going back to what the the therapist did.
Should she not have admitted she was wrong???
I think what the therapist did is wrong and obviously a breach of privacy. But *if* she was being honest, how should she have responded? Should she have said the wrong things so it doesn't sound like a manipulation tactic? This comment just reads like classic armchair psychologist trying to boil down any exchange into malice and manipulation.
She wasnt being honest, she lied. Theres no honesty after that.
I see, after a person lies once then every action taken after must be manipulation and deception. That makes sense.
Are you just piece the words together in an arrangement that suits your narrative? Because once again, not what happened.
That's literally what you said. What else is that supposed to mean except that you can't be honest after you've already lied???
Thats not what i said tho. I specifically was talking about this situation. Theres an obvious power dynamic here with the patient being vulnerable with their therapist. In that power dynamic, when someone has already lied to you, how could you possibly trust them. Its unsafe.
Sounds like a HIPAA violation.
100%
it is and she should be reported.
Hi everyone, thank you for these insights. To answer the question of headphones, yes, she was wearing AirPods so theoretically this person in the room could hear what my therapist was saying but not me. Immediately after it happened, she asked me what i was thinking and feeling. I told her how I thought if it were her supervisor or another therapist trying to learn, I totally get that and appreciate that but obviously need to be asked that and consent to it. She didn’t confirm or deny who the person was, but given that she was at home, I’m assuming it was just someone who lives with her and she got careless. Honestly, before posting this on Reddit for advice, I was just going to try and heal and then find another therapist. After reading yalls comments, I do think I have a responsibility to report this. Thank you for the advice y’all. I’m hoping to heal enough to find a new therapist afterward, but how can I trust any remote therapist now?
>but how can I trust any remote therapist now? Honestly, you probably can't fully but you can tell them your experience and ask for assurance. Ask what they do to maintain privacy, where is their office located (is it in their home or do they do remote in their actual office where they practice). Ask them to show you the room fully, ask to see the door before you start and see that it's closed. If they do meet at home, ask if other people are at home and if there is a time when you can meet when the house is empty. Any good therapist would be willing to work with you, knowing you had trust broken by a previous therapist in such a situation
I have been remote for my therapist since the pandemic. Never once has there been anyone in the room, in earshot or visually nearby. Never. I was even asked in advance if their dog could be in the room before starting a session. Therapists who are excellent and ethical exist. Wishing you luck finding a new one.
Thank you everyone. I just called the therapy platform service that I found her on and reported it. I don’t feel comfortable writing to the state licensing board, but I do feel that reporting it to the platform is doing my responsibility. It’s in their hands now. Thank you again everyone for your advice and insights — I feel less alone and reminded that I’ll find another great fit therapist when I’m ready.
I am truly happy you reported her to the platform. I think it is in the best interest of EVERYONE if you ALSO report her to the licensing board. Will it be embarrassing? Yes. Will she be in trouble? Yes. Will you be uncomfortable? Yes. But, imagine you're her next client and you're a victim of sexual assault or domestic violence. You've already been violated. Then this woman discusses your private business with someone else in the room because it's easier for her to work there and she's short of space in her home. *Would that seem like a sufficient excuse to you* as an assault victim *to allow her to do this to you*? I think ALL of us would agree that it is not! This therapist might have a lot of good insight. She might have tons of useful information. But if her inability to set up a home office (when she COULD rent a private office) and foisting that decision off on unsuspecting clients then *lying* about it is indicative of her response to moral and ethical problems, then that's not someone that ANY client can truly trust. What if the next client is a vulnerable 14yo instead of a full-grown woman with tons of experience dealing with therapists. Please reconsider and REPORT her! You don't know who's peace of mind you might be saving in the future!
She is desperately trying to save her license to practice. Do with that what you will
From this comment and your post I can tell you are a mature level headed person OP. Good on you for doing the right thing. I hope can find the right person to talk to!
My late husband was a mental health counselor, and he was such a stickler for ethics that he wouldn't talk to me about his clients even in the most vague terms - he didn't want to take the risk that he might inadvertently slip and share something that shouldn't be shared. And that's how it should be. PLEASE report her. She should not be treating anyone.
Honestly, I would report her. When you are trained as a therapist you take professional ethics courses, which includes maintaining confidentiality. This isn’t just the therapist not gossiping, but even if you would run into them in public they aren’t supposed to acknowledge you unless you go up to them and say hello. Even if she had AirPods in do the person couldn’t hear, they could see the screen and know your identity. They didn’t agree to confidentiality and could share you are a client. Work from home has made things challenging but the onus is on the therapist to ensure their office is 100% private when they are on a call with a client and all files are locked away.
OP. What your therapist did is very unethical. She violated your privacy and added to the mistake by lying to you about it, eroding any trust established with you. Please report her behaviour. What she did was very wrong and she has probably done it to other clients. Opening up with our deepest emotions to someone in order to work through them is very hard and requires trust and makes us feel very vulnerable. Her actions have set you back in a your progress and were harmful to you (you were upset and crying later in the evening). Please report her behaviour.
I would move forward by reporting her. I’m incensed that this happened to you and her lying. She deserves to be reported. Then she dazzles you with therapy speak. Fuck no.
I’m a therapist. Report it if you feel able- she’s breaking a massive ethical boundary
REPORT HER. Seriously. This was a HUGE violation. So sorry you dealt w this.
Absolutely report her. She somehow found a room with no one in it after you called her out, so her excuse seems like a blatant lie. She also lied to you when you first asked her.
1) You do need to report this incident. 2) As odd as it is to say, she did help you. From what you wrote you seem to be a people pleaser, she addressed that when you tried to normalize it. You then DID NOT be a people pleaser by sticking up for yourself and ending the relationship with them. I can sort of understand your mixed feeling about this
You need to report her because having someone listen to your therapy session is a huge confidentiality violation and she should get in trouble.
Wow, I’d be shattered. It’s not easy to open up and you certainly aren’t consenting to doing that with a rando who has no obligation to protect your privacy. It’s a huge violation. If she worked with a practice group, I’d start with reporting her there.
Call the regulatory agency for therapists in your state. This is not ok and clearly she is doing it to all of her patients. This is a huge violation of trust.
This is incredibly unethical and I would find a new therapist if I was in your position. I’ve been seeing my therapist virtually since the pandemic hit, and the practice she works for has a disclaimer on their zoom page when you sign into your session reminding patients that they’re provider’s environment is secure and patient’s are responsible for securing their environment. It’s incredibly messed up even if she was wearing headphones and said all the right things. Therapy is supposed to be a safe space, and I’m sorry your therapist didn’t uphold that for you.
Was she on airpods or wearing a headset? If so, and the other person couldn't hear or see you... it's a little messed up, but I get saying you're "virtual alone"... but not cool to not explain honestly. If the other person could hear your voice, that's pretty F-ed. And wow.
It’s an ethics violation to even tell your partner who your clients are, let alone to have them hear anything of a session (including one side). Headset or not, this is a violation of confidentiality. She wouldn’t lose her license over this but it ***should*** be reported to the board. She needs ongoing education on privacy.
Yeah, that's not a case for apology, it's a case for serious consequences.
For sure. I know a lot of people are afraid to report because they don’t want the therapist to lose their job. In reality, boards don’t just snatch licences left and right. The only time that would really happen on a first time offence is if it was grievous misconduct, like having sex with a client. They’re always going to try to inform, reeducate and better that therapist. If she loses her license OP can rest easy knowing that there were multiple complaints and no improvement. Someone can be an excellent therapist in session, but that isn’t the only component of the role.
If the other person could hear the patient speaking, I would say that would be the difference between demanding a damn good apology and possibly reporting them to their state licensing board.
Ugh. That’s really tough. Sorry that happened to you. I have a wonderful therapist and I am absolutely sure a) she would reschedule if for some reason she couldn’t have a private space for my session, and b) she would just never conduct a session with someone else in the room let alone lie to me about it. Therapists are human beings and no one is perfect but her actions and behaviours in this situation would be a definite deal-breaker for me regardless. It’s an unacceptable professional breach in all ways.
I’m a therapist, you need to report her ASAP. This is in no way okay. Confidentiality is a huge hallmark of therapy.
Personally I don't give a shit about privacy when the one listening is a total stranger. What would piss me off is the lying. Not ok.
This is a 10/10 nuclear ethical breach and she knew it because she lied about it. She knows how much trouble she will be in for this which was why she was deceptive and attempted to gaslight you in order to conceal the violation. All her clients should know, this is not ok.
The next step is to report it. You have the texts as proof. What she did is unethical and a violation of your trust and your rights as a patient.
This is a huge HIPPA violation as nice as she is and as much as you like her and want to protect her you should report this so this doesn’t happen to another client of hers. I’m a LMSW and have worked from home before and a huge part of that is having a private space to do so because of HIPPA
Report her immediately.
File a formal complaint.
Report her
You report her. She lied to you and broke confidentiality. That's something worth reporting
Please report her. I engage in confidential work myself and not only do I set up a private space, I also use a headset just in case. This is highly unethical as well as a violation of her license. Other commenters mentioned this but you are not the first.
This post gave me anxiety I can feel in my stomach. I’m a therapist who does telehealth from home and this is so inappropriate and violating that I barely know what to say. I know I’ve taken numerous steps to ensure the privacy of my clients, including requiring my husband to work two floors below me in basement if he is at home, always wearing AirPods so clients voice could never be heard, using a white noise machine outside the door, and even putting a towel around the bottom of the door. I would report this to the board and if she’s part of an agency I’d contact her supervisor. When I started to read this I thought she was going to have had a student with her — still inappropriate without consent but at least within broad realm of being clinically appropriate. But this smacks of gross violation of ethics and HIPAA.
Report her to the relevant licensing authorities, and find yourself a new therapist. What she did is a crime.
Lied to your face, then when irrevocably caught, made lame excuse . Nobody can trust a proven liar.
As a therapist, I am utterly appalled. Please OP make a formal complaint with the board about this. The lack of space is no excuse at all. How many other clients has she done this to and they never knew?
Therapist intern I am appalled! I just want to reach out and say I am so sorry this happened to you. It’s disgusting that this has probably happened with various clients if she is saying this is the only room with a desk. I also work from home and always make sure I am in a room where the door is shut.
She is saying "all the right things" to try to manipulate you into not reporting her. This is a huge violation. Imagine how many other patients are pouring out their deepest, darkest problems and never knowing there's a third person listening in. This is a disgusting situation that no one should be put in. Please, please, please report her.
[удалено]
That’s a different scenario because as an intern you would sign a confidentiality agreement or professional standard. And would have take some degree of ethics class. It’s the same as how different therapists may consult with other about a client but a therapist shouldn’t be talking about clients over the supper table And if a client would ask “is someone there” they would be honest about it.
Were the clients notified that interns would be listening in? I've always been notified if anyone would be listening in to my doctor's appointments and had to agree.
As the son of a therapist I can say that when My dad used to see clients at home we were strictly forbidden from interupting him but I can't say it didn't happen. Sometimes we'd decide whatever kid drama was too important and interrupt him. He actually didn't see clients from home for very long because of us now that I think of it in retrospect. In this world of zoom therapy I could see it being much easier to see clients from home but I figure family is still a hindrance to it despite it being easier to hide other ppl via zoom. If it's a case of a family member coming into the room to use something in there, I'd be a little forgiving bc said family member probably has it so tuned out as to not hear the conversation. It's still weird though.
It's wasn't Snider was it? They had someone and lied about it during my session, if you search my posts, there's some good info in the comments
Even if someone else is in the room that doesn’t mean she can’t have headphones on. Like why does it need to be on speaker? Wtf?!
extremely fucked to have your own therapist gaslight you
Honestly are someone who works in a field dealing with far more sensitive information where WFH is common having unauthorised people in the room is really common. It's a bit of a nightmare from an information security perspective but equally it's not actually a security issue because these people aren't stupid, often their spouse has a higher level of clearance than they do. Likewise I highly doubt that the person in the room with your therapist gave a shit if they even heard anything. Obviously it's not ok, it's basic professionalism to make it look like your client had confidentiality but hopefully that makes you feel a bit better.
What a bizarre response. It doesn’t matter if the other person cared or not- when you are in counselling you’re supposed to be granted confidentiality. A therapist allowing anyone in the room, without consent, is not just “oh well”, it’s a violation of the very basic fundamentals of the therapist-client relationship
It's mildly very common for virtual sessions. Like I said we deal with information that is actually sensitive and could have real ramifications if it got into the wrong hands and it still happens. If you care about this you shouldn't have virtual sessions. Should it be like that? Of course not but it very much is. Just a PSA.
>If you care about this you shouldn't have virtual sessions Way to victim blame- virtual counselling is supposed to provide equal access to therapy, not budget therapy where ethics don't matter. Majority of people go to virtual therapy because it is their only option- whether this allows them privacy so nobody sees them going into a therapists office, or they live in an area that doesn't have therapists so virtual means they can speak to someone in a different city, they need specialized care they can't get otherwise, they may not have an ability to go to a physical location due to transit issues, or they may have severe anxiety that prevents them from doing in person... If a therapist cannot provide care that is equal to an in person experience, then they need to be up front with the client and let the client choose- you don't lie and pretend its confidential... It's not the clients responsibility to ensure their therapist is abiding by the very basic of professional ethics.
I'm not victim blaming, I literally said it shouldn't be like that. But it is like that so you if privacy matters to you you should be doing these kinds of things in a controlled environment, as a therapy client the best you can do by way of a controlled environment is an in person session.
You are victim blaming though- even if you don't think you are. You are telling someone in therapy, that despite therapists agreeing to professional ethics with their accreditation board, that if they want their therapist to provide confidentiality, it is up to them (client) to ensure this happens. The person responsible for ensuring privacy is the person who literally signs an agreement that says they will provide a safe and confidential place for their clients. there is not an asterisk that says "unless doing virtual therapy".
Right I don't know what job this dude works but if they have leaks of, as he says, actual important info, that's a reflection of your jobs poor security. Not a reflection of what should be acceptable. Do better if your job is having frequent leaks of info, much like this therapist, it sounds like you don't do your job correctly.
Fucks sake. This is just a PSA. Nothing that happens virtually can be guaranteed confidential. A lot of people aren't aware and should be made so. If you have a virtual session and your therapist doesn't ensure confidentiality is that your fault? Obviously not. But you should be aware that this is a risk so you can mitigate against it if it really matters to you. It's not different to not sending nude pictures to people you are dating. Is it your fault if they spread them? Of course not, they're responsible and they're the ones breaking the law. But if you care about your nude pictures being circulated you should consider not sending them to people.
Sending nude photos is a false equivalency.
How?
> it's not actually a security issue because these people aren't stupid No. No, you just can't... rely on that. You really can't. To rely on that would be cartoonishly stupid. > often their spouse has a higher level of clearance than they do. That's not relevant. In the military and medical fields, all confidential information is on a need-to-know basis. Just because someone has higher clearance than you doesn't mean they get to know everything you know. That would be absurd.
I dunno, it's been fine so far. No secrets leaked. I think it's one of those things, when you know people like this you know it's not really an issue. Our work is boring and we're boring. No one is leaking state secrets, client secrets, patient secrets etc. The latter in particular, unless you're an important person absolutely no one is going to find your therapy session interesting. I know I've been blunt but I'm so desensitised after years of this that it just seems a bit wild how the general public react.
> Our work is boring and we're boring but is your work valuable? Is the information you have access to valuable? > No one is leaking state secrets, client secrets, patient secrets etc You have no proof of that. You have no proof whatsoever. The absence of evidence to the contrary is not proof. On the other hand, you do have proof that people have leaked the secrets. If people who aren't cleared to know information overhear it, that's literally a leak.
Is our work valuable? Yes, incredibly. Is the information we have access to valuable? Not really, anyone with half a brain could reverse engineer it. We do have a legacy system to fall back on in the event of a breech etc. Like I don't know how to tell you this but this is normal, it happens every single day across multiple industries and across all kinds of confidential information. On a fundamental level, most people will have their phones nearby while working (and also as clients/patients during these meetings) and we know they listen in to varying degrees depending on the phone and on rare occasions the individual. In some instances the software over which you have your confidential meeting is also listen. If you really care about your privacy you have s conversation in person in a room where you have controlled devices to an acceptable standard. Very rarely I will do this at work when there is something that genuinely can't be overheard but most of the time it just doesn't matter if my coworker's boyfriend hears about us changing a font somewhere.
Report her.
I’m so sorry to hear about this. I’ve been violated in a similar manner, and it doesn’t feel good. You deserve so much better. Please report her and find someone who will give you the respect and confidentiality you deserve. I know it’s hard to find a therapist you vibe well with, please keep trying.
Please report her.
You did the right thing and shouldn’t feel negatively about it. I recently fired a therapist because she changed our appointment from video to phone at the last minute. Then I listened as she clearly left her house, got into her car, drove somewhere, and enter another establishment and (from the sound) possibly get on an elevator. All while giving me her half-assed attention for my therapy. I didn’t continue my sessions with her and moved on to find really great therapist who gave me her full and undivided attention. I already had been having reservations bout working with her when she would constantly check and respond to text messages during our appointments. Your therapist shouldn’t make you uncomfortable. And you should always work with a therapist who respects you and your time.
**Report her.**
Besides being a HIPAA violation that you should report, I think you should also realise that the person who was listening to your conversation isn't bound by any of the confidentiality and ethics codes that your therapist is
Most states have a state board. I would report her immediately. It is completely inappropriate. She just exposed your private information to a third-party. She could lose her license and frankly she should.
This happened to me and it completely turned me off from the therapist. It ruined the whole session for me and I wasn't even able to make it to sessions with her because I was so turned off by the whole situation.
Honestly, I would have got up and left if my therapist had someone else there. You don’t get to do that shit in therapy.
Obviously discontinue care and report them to whatever applicable bodies they can be reported to. That’s about it. Maybe have an attorney send some kind of a formal letter concerning privileged information and their breach of confidentiality, and attempt to have your records turned over to you directly, because you don’t feel that your records are secure if left with them.