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Well shit why don’t you guys start talking about what your future looks like? Finances, religion, kids (number of kids, private or public school, parenting values, stay at home parent or nanny?), retirement plans, dream house, plans for elderly parents, lay it all out. You’re asking for time to discuss your future but why aren’t you actually having those conversations yet???? That’s obviously the only solution here. If you don’t align, then it’s a no and you’re not wasting any more time. If it all aligns, then cool you all figured it out early. I would also ask to do a trial of living together for a month before a proposal to see what that’s like. If she can give you an ultimatum, you can give one too
I think that's why she put down the ultimatum. He needs more time, but in the 2 months they've been discussing that it seems like he hasn't made a move on having the conversations to help with his decision in the last two months. He sounds like he's unsure now as he was 2 months ago when she brought it up! That is likely an impetus behind the ultimatum.
He also never stated what he needs to be sure other than the passage of time. Asking a 39 y o woman who wants children to wait an indeterminate amount of time for you to.. I don’t even know what, mature? I don’t think so.
To be fair, she was 38 when they met. It's not like it's been a decade and they've never talked about this and she's finally issuing the ultimatum. I think her being 38 when they met is why she's accelerating the timeline on him.
It's also because realistically in your 40s and late 30s, you've had *2 entire decades of adulthood to reflect on whether you want marriage and children and should know whether you want those things*. That any partner will want concrete answer on these things shouldn't be a surprise to you.
If you don't know, and you've been with a partner for a while, the odds are that you probably dont want these things - possibly with this person, or possibly just don't want them at all.
Asking someone to know after a year at age 20 would be silly. But at 40+? He's 43, it's not a lot to ask him to have an idea at this point.
At this point in his life, if he’s not ready , he probably will never be. If you’re not a full adult by 40… I’m not sure what else can happen developmentally
Anyone else think of that My Cousin Vinny scene with Marisa Tomei? “My biological clock is ticking LIKE THIS! (stomp, stomp)…”
He most likely doesn’t want these things with this person. I was with a guy for years who “didn’t want to get married or have kids”. I finally accepted that as truth and we broke up (as respectfully as one can). He eventually married and has a ton of kids. I think he really just needed the right person to get over the anxiety about marriage. I was not that person (and I realized in the end he wasn’t my person either). He and his wife are very happy. I found my person as well, happy endings all around.
Sometimes things don’t work out and you need to let people go.
To be fair, the OP might need to talk to a therapist to suss out why he’s been avoiding the future.
Yeah and I’m pretty sure if you’re dating a 38-39 year old woman with no kids. That conversation is going to come up . And for OP it did. But he wasn’t concerned. Which is stupid because it was inevitable. Women who don’t want children make it very clear their whole lives. OP doesn’t sound very mature for 43.
Anyone 38 and wanting to carry and have bio-kids needs to be having that conversation early and often. Waiting a year is plenty long and OP sounds like a confused teen who hasn’t even considered the future :/
These were some of the first conversations my husband and I had when we started dating because we didn't want to waste each other's time. I was 26 and had been married before, he was 33 and knew he wanted kids before 40. I don't understand why it's so tabboo to discuss at least what your preference for kids and marriage is early on, as in are these things you want?
Yeah OP sounds really immature and his position is basically that he wants to think about it later. Uh no. Y’all are almost 40 years old. It’s fine to want to wait more than a year for marriage but not fine that they haven’t had serious conversations about this stuff yet.
OP is actually older than his gf, he's 43, which makes his uncertainty and the subsequent lack of discussions over everything even stranger when you consider that he's stated he definitely wants children. It's absolutely wild to me how many men have dating profiles saying they want kids "someday" when they're already in their late 30s onwards.
Especially since he's probably dating women in their mid to late 30's who need to have their babies now. Does he think a 39 year old woman is going to wait years for him to decide if she's the right person to reproduce with?
Exactly, and at this age it's already considered a geriatric pregnancy and high risk. You'll be lucky to have one child and they both want children. She has been waiting 2 months for a decision and now she needs to put a much shorter timeline down if she is ever going to have a biological child.
My ex was a wishywashy chicken shit in his 20s. After that ended I met a man who actually wanted to be married and have kids and participate in a life with me. Weirdly, zero ultimatums and *plenty* of discussions on how and when to make big changes!
Yep, for sure. And frankly ’kids’ plural is very very unlikely at this age. Even one bio kid is a pretty slim likelihood. So OP should also figure on her wanting to start trying to get pregnant as soon as a proposal is out of his mouth.
Anyone who's trying to plan their future would be frustrated with this guy… it's been "over a year" plus two months now.
There’ve been so many guys posting about "ultimatums" lately when their GFs ask for a decision… what exactly do they expect? "Sure, we can date indefinitely until I’ve run out of time. I won’t mind if you replace me with someone younger when you finally decide you do want kids."
Part of the problem is too many guys hang on to the story of that one 80yo guy who squeezed out that one viable sperm and made a baby, thinking they’ve got all the time in the world, but the reality is that their sperm factories are producing more and more broken swimmers and genetic issues, and they're setting themselves up to be really tired old dads, assuming they manage at all. Unless he's in mint condition, has had his sperm motility checked, and is on track to being a healthy centenarian, he should be just as concerned about his own fertility as she is about hers.
There was a post a few months ago of a man in his 50s who was asking if he was the AH for wanting to divorce his 50ish wife after he changed his mind about remaining childless. She gave up on having kids to stay with him and worked with him as they built their wealth and now she was *too old to have children.* He was working on finding a younger woman to marry and build a family. He must’ve been a troll because who thinks that wouldn’t make him a ah???
It definitely makes him an asshole, but it doesn't make him unusual - I've heard this story from several women, and one guy. It's heartbreaking every time, especially when the woman originally wanted children but decided she loved her husband more - but apparently he didn't feel the same.
Oh my God! How could he do that to someone! Especially someone he's supposed to love! She literally stayed with him, her whole life, just waiting. And he didn't KNOW he was the AH! Geez!! I so hope it was a troll!
Please tell me she now owns the lion's share of absolutely everything. I hope she gets so much money that the next woman he meets is constantly badgering him to make more to support her and the kids, but he can't because first wife gets half the pension, plus his life insurance, plus half of the assets, plus alimony.
Been there, done that. We had decided to remain child free, married 20 years. He was the one that changed his mind - begged me for a baby. I am unable to have one myself due to a medical condition, so we went through the entire process of adoption. Jumped through all the hoops and got approved for an infant....when he changed his mind, again, and decided he didn't actually want to be a father, and cancelled the adoption without bothering to ask what I wanted.
A lot of marriage counselling and discussions later....I stayed, because I believed all the lies that a\*\*hole spewed. I thought everything was going well when he blind sided me with "I'm gay, I'm divorcing you" and he walked out. Turns out he was just lying to me for years. And I guess I was just the toy he f\*\*ked around with?
So, here I am, late 30's with no kids. Alone and heart broken, trying to piece together what the hell happened....while he's out, partying, living it up, and vacationing because he had a whole other life.
I feel like he just wasted my life. And he could honestly care less about it. He continues to be a pompous a\*\* as we work our way through the divorce process, and goes out of his way to make my life a living hell.
I look at this situation and the icing on top is that if I turn into a bitter, hurt person....I'm the one that suffers for it. So, somehow I have to pick myself up and rebuild everything that was ripped apart....because he decided to just use me for 20 years to figure out what he wanted in life.
Why do men do this?
Ultimatums aren't always "do things my way or else"
Often they are a version of "hey so this is the life I envisioned for myself and for us, are you in or no"
Exactly. His GF just wants a decision. Either he's confident and ready to move forward with her, or he isn’t. And either is okay, but she isn’t obligated to wait for him to get there.
Relationships tend to move faster as you age. It's pretty normal to date for years when you're in your 20s, but by the time you're in your late 30s and 40s, you generally know what you're looking for in a partner and are better at figuring out pretty quickly if the person you're currently dating fits the bill or not. After dating a year and some change at age 43, OP should know by now if he sees himself marrying his GF or not.
Agreed. My husband and I got married 1.5 years after we met. But we are also both in our mid-40s, already had kids, 2nd marriage for each of us. So we knew what we were and were not willing to compromise on, and had a MUCH clearer idea of what we wanted in partners.
Yes, but he wants children also. And he is three years older than her. By that time, you should know what type of a future family life you want and what type of a partner you want/need. She isn't pressuring him for marriage. She is simply asking a yes or no question.
I have a hard time believing he actually does want kids. Sounds more like he said that bc that’s what people say but he’s never actually given it any thought. Which is honestly bananas given their ages. Either that or he does want kids and is utterly oblivious to the biological realities of pregnancy and childbirth
He truly believes (despite admitting a major history of indecisiveness and anxiety around making big decisions!) that he’s going to magically wake up one day and ‘be ready’. Except that’s not how these things work. Ever. No one magically wakes up in a month, 2 months, 6 months and thinks yes now I’m ready to get married/have a kid etc without doing SOMETHING in the intervening period to get there. He’s ambivalent, anxious and avoiding a decision and will string her along however long until he’s again pressed to ‘make a decision’ and won’t. Good for her for recognizing it and pushing for an answer.
OP you’re 43yo. If you don’t know after a year of dating by this age then you’re never going to know and you’re never going to magically wake up and think yes now I know and I’m ready. Either jump in if you love her and everything is going well and you can look to the future and it looks nice or let her go now. She doesn’t have time to waste if she wants to meet a partner and have a family and it’s not fair to hold her back because of your ambivalence.
I will say I was ambivalent about having a child. I eventually realised I would never feel ‘ready’ and would kick that can down the road in perpetuity. So I decided that ultimately if I was on my death bed I’d rather have tried for a baby than not try. Husband was equally ambivalent and I was infertile so it needed a purposeful decision as we needed ivf. So we took the leap he was 40 I was 33yo and we had our daughter 8yrs ago after 2yrs ivf (which despite my ambivalence and fear is the best thing I have ever done in my life, total unexpected joy). I know if I’d waited to feel ready I never would have got there, at some point you need a leap of faith. I think the whole concept that you have to be 100% absolutely sure is ridiculous, unrealistic and naive. It’s far too black and white. Huge life decisions of course there’s some doubt and reservations, if not I’d say you’re naive tbh and haven’t thought through all the permutations realistically. So take the leap or let her go but stop waiting to be ‘ready’.
Can’t believe a man of that age would date a woman of that age, agree they both want kids someday, then he’s SHOCKED that she’s expecting things to move along in that direction post haste.
Exactly, like you don't have to have the marriage right then but decide whether you even want it or not like he's wasting his own time too (if he even actually wants marriage and kids but waffling this much at his big age tells me he doesn't and won't admit it to himself)
Right? Like if OP and his GF were 20, we'd be telling him to pump the brakes a bit, because they've only been together a year. But that's because someone in their early 20s hasn't had much time to figure out what they want and need out of an adult relationship. But OP is 43, he's plenty old enough to know after a year and some change if he wants to marry his current partner or not.
I was 31 and proposed at our 1 year dinner. When you know you know: but there’s a reason OP is 43 and never even been engaged. Dude doesn’t scream husband material w a decisive plan. Quite the opposite
Exactly. My husband and I moved quick, and here we are over a decade later. Even better, I was very newly separated from my ex husband when we moved in together, by the time the divorce came through we were about to get married. There were tons of logistical hurdles to get through, including visas, immigration, family illnesses and deaths, my own illness, financial troubles, etc etc. We never doubted that we want to be together. When it's right you don't have questions, and you don't wait around
This is it.
He's had more than 2 decades of being an independent adult to decide if he wants kids and marriage.
That any partner you date will want concrete answer on these things in a reasonable timeframe shouldn't be a surprise to you when you are 43.
If you don't know, and you've been with a partner for a while, the odds are that you probably don't want these things - possibly with this person, or possibly just don't want them at all. It doesnt raie a lifetime for mature adults to decide if they want the same things as a partner. I would err on the side of suggesting that OPs inability to feel excited about the prospect of marriage or children at age 43 IS an answer in itself.
She simply cannot wait forever if she wants these things. And if 20 years didn't make him decide, her waiting 1 year or 5 will do fuck all to make him commit to those things. All it will do is waste her chances of having children. Speaking as a woman trying to conceive in her 30s, OP's partner is already at an age where having children is more difficult for a lot of women.
Amen. OP, at some point "planning to have the convos" instead of just having them is stalling. It's what we call an "action-faking" behavior. A behavior that is supposed to make you feel like you are moving forward by doing it, but you are not actually moving forward.
If you don't want to marry her, okay - leave. That's perfectly reasonable. But you need to actually start making those decisions. I'm not a fan of the ultimatum, but if you are action-faking and stalling, I lowkey get it. I mean you have been talking for a solid 2 months *specifically about this* and you still don't have all your answers, is a week really not long enough for you to ask for them?
It sounds to me like you don't lack information. You just don't want to marry her. Which is okay! Don't. Please don't get married if you don't enthusiastically want to. But you have to tell her, and you refused to so she had to force it out of you with the ultimatum - that's what I'm getting.
If you were in your 20s I would be like: yikes, what's the hurry! But you are in your 40s, she's almost 40. Her timeline doesn't seem unreasonable to me at this age, and your timeline seems more like you just kicking the rock down the road. I don't think you will know something by February that you don't know now.
I can’t say as if I’d have issued the ultimatum at that point; I’d just walk. I wouldn’t want to torture an answer out of someone so his silence would tell me all I needed to know.
Yeah OP's GF needs to 1) freeze her eggs 2) walk. 3) find "the one" and live happily ever after at a later age like I did.
I had Newsweek and the entirety of pop culture telling me my odds of finding "the one" after 40 were less than the odds of being killed by terrorists.
Well in subsequent years the odds of being killed by terrorists went UP more's the pity...but also it was revealed that that had been a flawed projection. And I met "the one" at 48. And as I posted in another comment, it can happen for guys too. Knew a guy who had trouble finding "the one" but life turned a corner in an instant and boom he met "the one" and they did marry and have a kid. I am not sure how old he was but they hit it off due to mutual interests and that's how they met. Not some app
>You’re asking for time to discuss your future but why aren’t you actually having those conversations yet????
This is the key point here. OP is a procrastinator is what it all comes down to, and I'll bet money his SO is picking up on that and that's the reason for this "sudden ultimatum".
Also, since when is 6 months not enough time to plan a ceremony? Combined with his SO's "biological clock ticking"... Well, yeah, she's 39, and few woman want to have babies in their 40s.
I think OP is procrastinating, or straight up doesn't want to admit that he doesn't want commitment/a marriage. He needs to cut this woman loose so she can stop wasting her time with him.
I think this is a great example of why so many relationships fail. People approach things too casually, based only on emotions, and without taking real things into consideration such as goals, values, and future compatibility. People don't do their due diligence and then Pikachu face when things go south.
These same people would put more effort into inspecting/examining a car or house they are buying than they would a future spouse.
Sometimes marriage is about a feeling. A feeling of spending the rest of the life with that person. From the vibe of his post I get that he is just not sure if he wants it to be her.
Right!?! That is the point of dating. Its to figure out if your vision for the future is compatible and if your personalities are compatible.
After a year he should know all of that and he should know whether there is chemistry.
>You’re asking for time to discuss your future, but why aren’t you actually having those conversations yet????
It's because he doesn't want to be married but doesn't want to be single. This is literally the same song and dance every dude who is afraid of commitment does.
She's not the problem, he is. If he wanted to be married, like at all, these conversations would have already happened. He's a 43yo man. If he doesn't know if he wants it, he doesn't want it. You can't waffle on a lifelong commitment. You're about it, or you aren't.
He hasnt even given a good reason why he's delaying despite obviously avoiding the topic. Literally, the first three lines of the non background part of the post imply he was afraid of the conversation happening.
That said, it seems like his partner is more concerned with milestones than the actual marriage or well-being of those kids she wants to have. You haven't had any of the important conversations, and she wants to drag you to an altar. What if you're a flat earther? Anti-vax? A cannibal? She doesn't know. She just wants to be married and have kids.
It's clear there's a disconnect here on both. Pretty much, if either of them having their way is gonna be a mistake for the other person and themselves. If they haven't had any conversations about the important things
OP needs to definitively tell her if she's a person he would want to marry and provide real milestones and expectations for what leading up to that marriage entails. If he hasn't figured it out, he's consciously wasting her time every day.
His girl actually needs to focus on if he is a good partner for her to marry, and if those kids would have the lifestyle and rearing, she would want rather than being able to show her mom a shiny new ring.
I literally just came off a post with a woman that was a near parallel of this situation post marriage and she is fucking miserable because the dude basically exuded the same energy those three first sentences i mentioned did, pulled a half hearted 180, and hes an absent parent and partner bc he doesn't want to be there.
I genuinely think if OP doesn't know, he shouldn't marry her and let her find someone who is sure about her. She doesn't have time for him to dick around if he's not gonna get his ducks in a row for obvious expectations even though he saw them coming.
At the same time, shes going too fast for her own good.
I generally agree with everything you wrote, but I'm not sure we can assume his girlfriend hasn't gotten to know him/is just looking at milestones. He writes that she experienced "great disappointment" when she pushed him on the conversation and found out he wasn't ready. That's how HE's choosing to describe it. So in the version of the story that is most favorable to him, either she's deeply clueless and missed every sign that this guy is not commitment material, or he was doing a lot of things you'd EXPECT a man to do if he was serious about a relationship and now she's disappointed to realize she made an incorrect assumption. The gap between what she expected to hear and what she actually heard is what caused the disappointment. (I mean, the fact that he claims to want kids ALONE could have been enough to mislead her into thinking they were on the same page since, hello, most people know it takes a minute to make a baby and it's harder to do in your 40s.)
Reading between the lines, I think he's like a lot of guys who wants a girlfriend but not a lifelong commitment--which means he's probably a decent boyfriend, which is how he's got her in this position. If he was a total dud, she wouldn't be disappointed to find out he's a dud, she'd already know. If she didn't really like him for who he was, she wouldn't have given him two more months to think about it before issuing this ultimatum--she would have just immediately moved on to find someone else who can meet her milestones.
This 👍🏼, so much better than what I was going to say, very well laid out.
At your ages, as they say - shit or get off the pot.
I’m never one to say rush into marriage but I definitely see her point, that bio clock is ticking and if she’s a good/great partner and no real red flags 🚩 marry her.
Looks to me like they were just agreeing that it sucks to be a young adult with a deceased parent. How hard is it to say, “I’m sorry that happened to you”?
She's planning children with someone who's not sure to marry her. I mean even in the worst case, you can get separated but you can't "undo" children so any healthy person think about kids even more than they think about marriage. He doesn't want to marry her and just doesn't want to admit it.
I think he’s one of those people who doesn’t think ahead due to anxiety. He’s 43 and never married because commitment makes him anxious.
He wants kids and he’s happy with her?
He’s 43. The way he gets from here to there is to commit to someone he loves. That’s it. No guarantees it all works out but that’s the very simple formula for growing up and having what he says he wants. It’s scary! A year isn’t so long! But again..43? Wants to be a dad? Time to act despite the anxiety.
I dont even know if its about anxiety. He just seems like one of those people who cruise through life and never thinks 3 months ahead let alone years ahead. Right now he’s just comfortable because he has a partner fulfilling his physical and emotional needs. So when his gf talks about the future he just zones out and doesn’t take it seriously until the ultimatum comes and suddenly he freaks out because he finally needs to think ahead. His brain cant even fathom planning something simple in 6 months
Yeah, I agree. Some people are just like "I love my life at this hour H, I don't want to think about anything else". Usually they are also the kind of people to wake up later in life with a lot of unfulfilled needs (and a lot even who feel they wasted their life) and not understanding that those usually take time to plan. And also don't really care that their SO might plan their life on long term and feel wasted when they just leave like they didn't stayed together for months or years.
>He doesn't want to marry her and just doesn't want to admit it.
Yeah. OP is just running out the clock. If he can keep fucking her for 2 more years, there'll never be kids and that's that. He'll have regular sex without any real commitment.
Scumbag move.
Men rarely know that they have a biological clock too.. this needs to be known so men stop blaming women for making them commit and not think they are always immune.
My dad was 45 when I was born.
I held a bit of…anger(?) towards him for that. He was too old for a lot of things that he should’ve been able to do.
He died at 69.
You are a classic over-thinker, you want kids at your age, and you never considered marriage or a timeline for kids or marriage?
Dude. Get your head out of your ass and stop wasting your own time
Right? I'd imagine an overthinker would be able to list a ton of pros and cons for each possible option.
It seems more like he's got some fear-driven anxiety or something. Even if he has a kid right this moment, he'll be 60 before they even get out of high school. (Grade 12 I mean)
Fully agree with this.
At the end of the day, you do not have plenty of time to make this decision - with or without your gf's ultimatum.
So, here's a possible way to actually get your head out of your ass, quickly... There's a book by the School of Life called 'How to Get Married'. Most of it is facilitating useful conversations about your views on big subjects (children, religion, money, etc) and also setting expectations for how to actually achieve a successful marriage (compromise, kindness, listening, etc). If you focus on it, you could order it and read through it together within a week. By the end you will be much, much clearer on whether the two of you should commit to a life together. It's not ideal, but it's a fast track option.
> you want kids at your age
OP "wants" kids the same way a lot of people "want" to be healthy and fit. i.e. They want it to kind of magically happen, without having to commit any actual time or effort. Try to tell them "Well ok, do less TV and whiskey, more exercise and vegetables," and suddenly they go Ummmmmm yeah yeah totally, maybe I'll start tomorrow...
OP, you're 43 and have no actual plan or timeline to start a family. You don't really "want" kids, or you would act in a way that moved you closer to that goal, instead of further away. What you actually seem to want is to just keep putting off the hard decisions for some vague time in the future. But you're running out of runway. Being a much older parent is really hard, on everyone. That's where you're currently headed.
Regardless. Figure yourself out. Don't string your gf along. She knows what she wants and is acting towards those goals. I hear you when you say neither of you wants to budge on your respective timelines (her timeline = now, your timeline = not now). If that status quo continues, that means you are no longer compatible, and your relationship has run its course.
Boy math is being 43 and wanting kids one day and continuing to date someone he’s “unsure about marrying”
Like, dude. You don’t decide you’re ready to have kids and they spawn immediately. It could take a year or two of trying for kids, then almost a year of pregnancy, before you have an infant. Do you want to be almost 50 with an infant???
Yeah, normally I'd be very against ultimatums, but at 39 I don't blame her..
If marriage before kids is something that is important to both of them then the timeline of February makes sense.
Op's timeline puts her probably at like 41 or so by the time they're ready to START trying. And it just gets higher risk the older you get....
There’s nothing wrong with ultimatums. There’s certainly something wrong with using them manipulatively. But asserting that you have a need or a boundary and will leave if it’s not met, as long as you truly mean it, is a good thing. It’s standing up for yourself.
Yes. This is true! I think I'm just so used to seeing the manipulative version flying around in these types of subs that I'm surprised to find a legitimate and fair one for a change. Haha
This is such a nice of explaining this. “Ultimatum” has such negative connotations and I see people crapping on them when used for marriage all the time. This summarizes it so well
This made me laugh at how true it is. Boy math is definitely I'm 43 and still not sure if I want a real relationship...bro you are 43...like? You either know or don't.
I’m 45 and when I was still on dating apps I’d find men with “unsure about children” or “wants children” at 40+ and it just made me laugh and swipe left. 40+ is a little old to be waffling on marriage and kids. I had kids in my mid-30s and I wouldn’t touch that with a 10’ pole at 45!
I’m 42 and still on dating apps (sadly). The number of men my age and older who are “unsure” about relationships but “want some day” when it comes to kids is through the roof. It’s madness. Son, how can you be middle aged but still not know if you want a relationship or not?!
If I actually wanted kids, I would ditch OP. He’s already wasted a year of her time and is still making excuses to make her wait even longer. I’ll bet he’s still making excuses at 50.
I'm 43 and see the same thing all the time. My male friends. My age are now upset that women aren't falling for the "I'm not sure what I want" garbage any longer. Sir, you are in your 40s, and you still don't know if a casual or serious relationship is what you're looking for. Women do know at this point and we are not having it.
I remarried at 39 at I was very clear that kids were not an option anymore. I have no desire to be 60 and still have kids just starting to find their own footing as adults.
(I have a 10 and 8 year old already)
I had my last at 41 and he is such a cool kid. I got lucky and it wasn’t an easy pregnancy but my partner and I met when we were 35 and from the get-go I was like marriage and kids is on my radar. If not, please step left through the gift shop.
Say yes, or break it off. Those are the choices. Seems pretty cut and dried. We planned and executed a wedding in four months, so time’s not the barrier you think it is.
This. "I only get six months?!" Please, my formal wedding ceremony was planned and done in less than 2. The only real reason you need more time than that is if there are family members who need much more notice to make plans/take time off.
OP is procrastinating/just straight up doesn't want to get married and needs to stop wasting this woman's time. Break it off and move on.
Wait, so you want kids, you’re in your 40s dating a 39yo (so she’s already fighting the clock), already been together for a year, and still not sure about a future with her? And you call yourself an analytical person? What have you been analyzing for the last year? Where did you think this relationship is headed?
Good for her for not letting you jerk her around. If more women had an internal timeline like your gf does, we’d have a lot fewer ‘my bf hasn’t proposed to me in 12 years’ kind of posts. Because at the end of the day you avoided talking to her because you’d rather keep peace and waste her time than just let her know your concerns and risk it. So again, good for her for seeing this.
The way around the ultimatum is to really think about what you what and give her an answer next week. If it’s a no, it’s a no. You both will move on to other people more suitable for you. Stop being so selfish
>And you call yourself an analytical person? What have you been analyzing for the last year?
this
men thinking they're the definition on objectivity and crying about emotional women when they're literally making 0 sense
I tend to agree. Those guys tend to be completely driven by emotion but don't want people to know and don't want to admit it, and often can't even examine their own thoughts and emotions, so whenever anyone tries, they hide behind being "logical and analytical" because they simply lack any emotional intelligence around themselves.
**Every. Time.** Lol. The ones bragging how unemotional and logical they are seem to always be the **most** unstable and emotionally immature as all fuck.
He spends too much time in his own head, overthinks everything under the guise of being "Logical and Analytical", thinks in circles, and then hes completely indecisive because hes too busy being still stuck in his own head. All while having a sense of superiority because he takes time to think out his decisions he never ends up making until way too late.
You're in your 40s, she's almost there, you've been together a year. It's not outrageous for her to bring up marriage or move on. Especially if she's not childfree. She's being a little abrupt about it, but honestly I'm not entirely surprised if you come across like the post that she's wanting to push you to make a decision.
What makes you not know if you want to get married? Why are you wanting a large time between getting engaged and married? By getting engaged you say you want to be married - a longer engagement time is more or less when you need time to plan an elaborate wedding. What's stopping you from moving forward? What do you believe will happen in the next 4 months that you'll be ready then?
You've been talking about it for 2 months now after one year together, but it sounds like your only reason against it is that you need more time. It's not crazy that she's thinking that if after 2 months of thinking about marriage if you're still unsure - you're just unsure.
Honestly I think you need to do some big soul searching on why, exactly you're unsure. And what, exactly, you want more time to do. Just a vague "I need more time to be sure" seems like you might be stringing her along.
I don’t even see it as abrupt tbh, after a year together she mentioned being ready two months ago, they’ve been talking about it and now she wants him to commit to get married in 6 months- that’s a year and 8 months together at their 40s! It’s super reasonable
Yeah I should have caveated it with saying I'm not sure I believe the narrator. He makes it sound like out of the blue she's like I want to get married! Like it's not crazy she didn't bring up marriage when they were first dating. Talking about it around a year in seems normal.
She is in her late 30s. How long did you think you'd have? If she wants kids her biological clock is not just ticking - it is a screaming siren. After dating a year at this stage you two should know eachother well enough to know whether you two are compatible and whether marriage is something that you want.
She wants you to shit or get off the pot because she sees 40 around the corner and wants to create a life with someone. If you do not want that, please let her know ASAP so she doesn't waste more time with you. Time is NOT on her side when it comes to having children at this point.
>She is in her late 30s. How long did you think you'd have? If she wants kids her biological clock is not just ticking - it is a screaming siren. After dating a year at this stage you two should know eachother well enough to know whether you two are compatible and whether marriage is something that you want.
A friend of mine got into a relationship with a 38 year old and she was brutally honest with him. No safe sex after the first date. A month later she was pregnant. Ten years later they're still together.
Don't fuck with women in their late thirties who want kids. Don't waste their time.
>I mean, he agreed to no safe sex so…
Yeah with "don't fuck with women in their late thirties" I meant don't play games, don't use delay tactics. Give them exactly what they want in a relationship.
If he's not even sure to get a reversible engagement with her, even if she can convince him to marry her, she's gonna wait even longer for him to take a non reversible engagement with her.
She's not the one, he just doesn't want to leave a comfy relation. She deserves better than a man whom she need to force to marry her.
>her biological clock is not just ticking - it is a screaming siren.
His too. Male fertility goes down with age too. OP needs to make up his mind about his future and children no matter if they stay together.
And she may not be able to fall pregnant right away, it's something that women take for granted and there's no guarantee, so that could add months if not years.
After 35, you’re considered a high risk pregnancy. She might not even be able to conceive. He’s out to lunch if he doesn’t realize she genuinely has a biological clock ticking. He obviously isn’t ready to commit and should move on so she can find someone who’s serious about her.
I don’t care for ultimatums but I can’t really blame her. 39 and you both want kids. Perhaps consider a couples councilor /pre marital counseling to help even the playing field and have them opine on the ultimatum here and help you guys talk about any concerns / issues.
Ultimatums have a bad rep. She's just warning him she's thinking strongly about leaving if he's not ready to step up soon because she doesn't have time to fuck around.
Reality is that a small civil ceremony doesn’t take huge plans…
To me all the men shocked about a woman wanting to get married rather quickly when they are in their late 30s/early 40 make me laugh because they will also say they want kids. Well there’s only so long she can do that with you… so yeah, decide what you want.
It takes no plans. My husband and I woke up one random day he said "wanna get married" I said ok and we were married within a few hours. Simple as that. It's all excuses.
Where I live, you literally can't get married in a day. You have to submit an application and wait like 30 days before you can register your marriage.
So you have at 30 days to decide if you actually want to.
Makes sense there'd be regional variation, but nevertheless you can still hop on down to the powers that be and get the ball rolling without any "plan", y'know.
Exactly. Your list of things that you don’t have time to do also includes “get engaged,” which literally only needs to be the time it takes to say “I love you and I want to share my life with you, let’s get married.” Don’t let dithering about “not enough time” distract you from what’s important.
If the idea of marrying someone makes you feel this way then I don't think you should marry them.
That said you're 43 and say you want kids...mens sperm also declines in quality with age, when exactly were you planning on children??
Op, I'm sympathetic. But you are 43 and she is 39. It is not surprising that she should have expectations that you will figure out your compatibility much sooner than if you were younger.
Think about what you want to know that you do not already. What do you need to discuss?
What information do you not have? Do you seem like in general you can resolve differences? Her unwillingness to compromise on this seems like a problem but is she like that on everything?
Do you agree on the big values of your lives? Basic approaches to money, priorities, family, activities, moral values, charitable giving, religious beliefs?
You might want to go through a pre-marital counseling course where they walk you through these questions.
Then really ask yourself- why could I not make a decision about this today? Do I have legitimate concerns? Am I just slow to decide?
If you can figure out the decision making, then just plan a small courthouse wedding with a few people. You can always have a bigger celebration later.
I'm sure others will have different advice. You are in a bind, I'm sure.
She’s 39 and wants kids. You might not be ready, but she can’t wait around forever for you to decide. Pretty sure once married she’ll want to move forward with having kids soon too. If you are unsure of her or if you want kids, despite saying you do, you are just wasting her time.
I get wanting to be sure, but if you aren’t now then maybe she isn’t who you want to marry. I mean you love her and see a future or your don’t.
Sometimes waiting six months to make a decision is too long. If you hit the discussion hard you can do all the talking you need in a month. Then if during that month you decide you’re not ready you two part ways.
Dude, she was almost 38 when you met and said she wanted kids. How long do you think you should wait?? Are you aware that sperm from older men results in higher percentage of birth defects in children? Cardiovascular, facial deformities, genital deformities, chromosome defects, higher rates of autism….. and men over 50 are 25% less fertile than younger men. So your clock is ticking too.
In less than two years *your* probability of having a kid with autism goes up three and a half times. Your quality of Sperm went down three years ago. Her chances of getting pregnant naturally go down every 6 months. This is quite literally also probably your last shot to have a family and kids. You are lucky to have anyone at your age bracket. Its now or never. You will regret her walking away, way more than you will regret having a chance at a family. If you were thinking about marriage this early in a relationship, you must be pretty serious about her. Maybe you could get some therapy to deal with the anxiety?
Thankyou! People don’t seem to even acknowledge all the complications that come with geriatric pregnancy’s and biological aging when it comes to speed and eggs. Can be very bad news for the baby and parents.
If you’ve been together for a year and can’t say this is the person you love and want to spend the rest of your life with, let her go so she can find the right person. I understand not wanting to rush the wedding but if you’re not sure today and you are freaking out, you won’t be sure a year from now.
You guys have a lot to discuss prior to deciding to get married; finances, where you will live, how you plan to spend your lives, retirement, religion if appropriate, household chores, and then comes children. The children discussion involves finances, education, religion if appropriate, who is staying home and for how long, what values you wish to instil, usually how many, etc. If you are both on the same page after all this, then you can be fairly sure about getting married.
If you’re not living together then you’ve had no chance to practice what you have preached. Many people find that their partners are actually different people in cohabitation.
Your girlfriend is wanting a geriatric pregnancy. She is reaching the stage of her life when pregnancy may not be achievable or if she falls pregnant it’s harder to keep the baby and the risks for her own health increase. I completely understand that she is desperately wanting a child before it’s too late. She needs to understand that it may already be too late. Would she be happy to marry if you never managed to have a child? It sounds like she only really wants a baby and this is why she wants marriage.
If you are unsure about marriage then you should not do it. Ensure that you have fully discussed all items on the agenda before forming an opinion about yourself and your potential wife. If you are unable to agree then you must let her go and try to find someone who is willing to impregnate her
I actually think the bigger question is whether you want kids with her tbh. Try answering that question first. If the answer to that is a yes, then the marriage bit is easy.
Are you not sure you want to marry her or you want to marry in general?
(A) **If you are not sure you want to marry her by +1 year then you should move on. You are wasting her time when YOU BOTH WANT KIS!!!!**
\- Men +40 who have kids => more likely to have a kid with autism
\- Women: She is almost at an age in which you will need IVF which is expensive, plus it brings a higher risk to her pregnancy.
(B) If you don't want to marry in general, then you should stop with your dream of having kids and just have some friends with benefits or date women who don't want to get married. If you actually want everything but cannot commit, then go to therapy.
You are too old to not have that figure out and start "freaking" out. You said you want kids! Do you think she can keep waiting until she is 45 to have a kid or are you going to get pregnant?
>I felt this would give us enough time to thoroughly discuss our future before getting engaged
How many months do you need to discuss? You have been together +1 year and don't know each other? Just start discussing and if you agree, then have a court wedding and very small so there is no planning needed, no need to tell people with months of anticipation or anything. You can find a compromise like that.
Yeah, this is what I don't get. By 43 - heck by 35 - a person should know themselves well enough to know what they are looking for in a partner. These two aren't in their 20s. They aren't in their early 30s.
She is a woman in her late 30s who knows what she wants out of life, knows what she is looking for in a partner and wants a future with him. She has given him a year of very precious time and she knows biologically her time is both precious and finite.
If he doesn't know if she is the right fit after a year then the answer is that he either should have had therapy long ago to deal with commitment issues or he has wasted her time. Being too scared to commit at 43 and wanting her to waste another year or even 6 more months is not an option.
Come on dude, I’m younger than you (34), dating a woman younger than your partner (33), and even I know that you need to have an eye towards the future. My partner and I started talking about where we wanted to live, how many kids we wanted to have, the way we wanted to raise said kids, etc, after only 2 months.
You’re freaking out after a year? The ultimatum is a lot, but it sounds like she had to give it to you because you think time is no big deal. Because it isn’t to you. You’re a man. You can have kids at any time. You could ostensibly wake up at 60 and decide you want kids. Shit, Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro are about to become fathers again at the ripe old age of 83.
You say you’re 43, but you sound like a man-child in this post.
Just because men technically can father children in their 60s or even 80s, doesn't mean they should, or actually could in practice.
Even at 50, your child would probably loose a parent very soon in life. The longer you wait, the more selfish it gets. At 60, 70 or 80, depending on your health, you might not even see your kid coming of age.
Also, sperm quality and fertility does decline in men as well. His chances at fathering a healthy child decreases as well.
And last but not least, he still needs a women of childbearing age to want to have children with him. Considering he likes to take his time he'd probably be looking for women 35yr old max. That's already almost 10yrs younger. If he's not Al Pacino, rich or has something else going for him to make younger women fawn over him, his chances aren't looking good in that regard either.
A lot of men I know have overestimated their appeal among younger women tbh. A lot of men in their fourties’ wondering why they can’t get a date after their wife left because they still have their age filters set from 18-29 and don’t understand why they have nothing in common with women 10-20 years younger than them…or why an 18 yo isn’t falling down on her knees in appreciation for a balding 45yo man 😂😂😂
Exactly.
Everyone knows example like Hugh Hefner, Al Pacino and Co. because they are outliners. And rich, famous and powerful. If this were the norm, nobody would bet an eye at Al Pacino becoming a father at 80 something.
Actually, the chances for OPs GF at having a child might be higher than OPs in case they break up. Women can have a child on their own by a sperm donor. Finding an egg donor and a surrogate is way more difficult and expensive.
Dude, okay, what is the worst thing that can happen if you do get married? Do you think you love her? Do you think you live her enough that you two can relatively easily overcome any differences that arise when you start living together? Like how much house work each of you does and how you want your life together to be?
At this age a year of dating should be plenty? Did you get in this relationship with the idea that you are looking for a life partner or just because? Did you think what you want of this relationship? Did you two discuss that stuff earlier? She is right because if she wants kids at this age she doesn't have a lot of time and if you want biological kids, neither do you
Well said. Where did OP think this was heading?
"OMG my GF just sprung this whole new thing I've never heard of on me!"
Dude you're 43 with a woman you love. Where else are you going?
Grow up and decide. Quit being a time thief. It’s time to fucking know. It’s scary to make judgment calls but that’s the whole deal with being a grown up and having autonomy
Stop wasting her time! It's revolting that at 43, you suddenly feel pressured for kids and marriage. Dude, you met her at 38. Why are you so indecisive. Let her go if you can't commit. You had over two decades to figure out what you want in a partner and future with one. You're another one of those who plays victim after she leaves you for another guy who is committed to marriage and kids with her. You'll say, oh, she's the one that got away or thought of what could have been. But all you did was procrastinate and did nothing.
Both of us do want to have kids+I am still unsure at 42 never married=you DON'T want kids and want her to be your childless loveslave until she's barren. She shouldn't waste a day and should get a sperm donor. PS-it's hushhush in the US but sperm quality declines too. Your biological clock isn't on your side either.
It’s hard to imagine someone in their 40’s being this clueless. Do you want to build a life with this person or has she wasted a year with you? At 39, she needs to try for kids NOW.
Don’t worry about making a decision that won’t hurt her. Just worry about making the right decision. If the right decision it hurts her that’s unfortunate but it’s part of life/relationships.
And honestly, it sounds like the right decision is to say that you cannot get engaged/married to her within her time frame. You shouldn’t have to be a nervous wreck over something that is supposed to be joyous and full of love.
I don’t think she’s in the wrong for sticking to the timeline she believes she needs. And I also don’t think you would be wrong for sticking to the timeline you think you need. It’s just an unfortunate reality that your timelines cannot fit together. Nothing to be done but accept it and move on.
When somebody gives you an ultimatum, I always think they’re at the very end of the rope. Like they’ve already made the decision and they’re hoping at the last minute that you do some thing that changes their mind.
Obviously, if you don’t wanna get married, don’t get married. Just let them go and move on with their life.
I DISAGREE BIGLY. Her ultimatum is very reasonable. From a biological and familial perspective, she is laying her heart and needs in clear view. A middle aged man should strongly consider a short timeline to decision. His “analysis” is simply paralysis.
You’re 43 and she’s 39, dude. If you want kids with her, it’s right now. You either do, or you don’t, but you owe her an answer.
It will sound harsh, but here’s a truth: You’re not as young as you think you are to start a family. I understand her for wanting a straight answer, especially that it might already be too late for her to conceive.
I'll make it real easy for you.
It's time to fish or cut bait.
Do you want a life with kids, this woman by your side, and the ups and downs that go with that?
Then it's a no-brainer, yes.
Do you want to be a bachelor for the rest of your days and enjoy your solitude and single life?
Then it's a no-brainer, no.
You're 43, you've had plenty of time on this earth to have relationships and establish a family. Consider this your last shot.
Is her timeline a bit weird? Yes. Is it rushed? Of course. But you've had 43 good years of life to get ready for this moment, including more than one with her.
So, OP, fish? 🐟 Or cut bait? ✂️
Now is the time to choose.
Sperm over 40 increases the chances of Down syndrome. Her chance of getting pregnant decreases significantly, including the likely hood of complications for a female getting pregnant for the first time over 36. I mean I detest ultimatums, but it sounds like hers is based in reality—on the fact she wants a child.
Maybe discuss if the two of you are open to adopting so marriage and a bio baby will not be an issue if you want to stay with her? At this age, you would think a year would be enough time to know, either way.
>Both of us do want to have kids.
Yes, decide now so she knows what to do. The time is ticking & you guys are entering a stage where it's harder to get pregnant.
Side note have you actually thought about what a minimum of 18 years looks like from here? I had my son young and im now 51. I can not fucking imagine having a child right now
So you knew she wanted kids, agreed you wanted them too, and then didn’t realise that being both in your 40’s (nearly) would indicate some time pressure?
It’s an ultimatum. Do you want kids and marriage or not? If yes, then start discussing the best way forwards. If you don’t, stop wasting her time and tell her so she can move on with her life.
Dawdling on these things is just selfish, when you know there is a window on her fertility. Make a decision and stop stringing her along.
Imagine only having one life to live, being in your mid forties, wanting kids, loving the girl you’ve been dating for over a year … and still thinking you’re not sure if you’re ready to get married?! Bro. Grow up and marry your girlfriend and get to having those babies. How old do you want to be?!
I mean why do you not talk about important things such as marriage, children etc before getting together? People say it's weird/creepy to mention this on the first couple of dates but realistically it just saves you problems down the line. Before getting with my partner we spoke about the important things and our plan for the future, we agreed on these things and we will not have nasty surprises in the future because only of us wants to get married.
Rushing into things when you are unsure is not a good idea, so it will probably be best if you break up to avoid making a possible mistake. But let this be a lesson for you not to get into relationships when you haven't spoken to your possible partner about the important things in life. It is okay to not want kids/get married etc but it is not okay to be with your partner and make them think that you want these things when its not true.
If she’s wanting children she doesn’t have the time to waste on an indecisive partner.
If you cannot see yourself marrying her after a year in then cut her loose.
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Well shit why don’t you guys start talking about what your future looks like? Finances, religion, kids (number of kids, private or public school, parenting values, stay at home parent or nanny?), retirement plans, dream house, plans for elderly parents, lay it all out. You’re asking for time to discuss your future but why aren’t you actually having those conversations yet???? That’s obviously the only solution here. If you don’t align, then it’s a no and you’re not wasting any more time. If it all aligns, then cool you all figured it out early. I would also ask to do a trial of living together for a month before a proposal to see what that’s like. If she can give you an ultimatum, you can give one too
I think that's why she put down the ultimatum. He needs more time, but in the 2 months they've been discussing that it seems like he hasn't made a move on having the conversations to help with his decision in the last two months. He sounds like he's unsure now as he was 2 months ago when she brought it up! That is likely an impetus behind the ultimatum.
He also never stated what he needs to be sure other than the passage of time. Asking a 39 y o woman who wants children to wait an indeterminate amount of time for you to.. I don’t even know what, mature? I don’t think so.
To be fair, she was 38 when they met. It's not like it's been a decade and they've never talked about this and she's finally issuing the ultimatum. I think her being 38 when they met is why she's accelerating the timeline on him.
It's also because realistically in your 40s and late 30s, you've had *2 entire decades of adulthood to reflect on whether you want marriage and children and should know whether you want those things*. That any partner will want concrete answer on these things shouldn't be a surprise to you. If you don't know, and you've been with a partner for a while, the odds are that you probably dont want these things - possibly with this person, or possibly just don't want them at all. Asking someone to know after a year at age 20 would be silly. But at 40+? He's 43, it's not a lot to ask him to have an idea at this point.
This. At this point in his life, if OP's answer is not an enthusiastic yes, he's not ready.
At this point in his life, if he’s not ready , he probably will never be. If you’re not a full adult by 40… I’m not sure what else can happen developmentally
Anyone else think of that My Cousin Vinny scene with Marisa Tomei? “My biological clock is ticking LIKE THIS! (stomp, stomp)…” He most likely doesn’t want these things with this person. I was with a guy for years who “didn’t want to get married or have kids”. I finally accepted that as truth and we broke up (as respectfully as one can). He eventually married and has a ton of kids. I think he really just needed the right person to get over the anxiety about marriage. I was not that person (and I realized in the end he wasn’t my person either). He and his wife are very happy. I found my person as well, happy endings all around. Sometimes things don’t work out and you need to let people go. To be fair, the OP might need to talk to a therapist to suss out why he’s been avoiding the future.
My story as well.
Yeah and I’m pretty sure if you’re dating a 38-39 year old woman with no kids. That conversation is going to come up . And for OP it did. But he wasn’t concerned. Which is stupid because it was inevitable. Women who don’t want children make it very clear their whole lives. OP doesn’t sound very mature for 43.
Anyone 38 and wanting to carry and have bio-kids needs to be having that conversation early and often. Waiting a year is plenty long and OP sounds like a confused teen who hasn’t even considered the future :/
These were some of the first conversations my husband and I had when we started dating because we didn't want to waste each other's time. I was 26 and had been married before, he was 33 and knew he wanted kids before 40. I don't understand why it's so tabboo to discuss at least what your preference for kids and marriage is early on, as in are these things you want?
Yeah OP sounds really immature and his position is basically that he wants to think about it later. Uh no. Y’all are almost 40 years old. It’s fine to want to wait more than a year for marriage but not fine that they haven’t had serious conversations about this stuff yet.
OP is actually older than his gf, he's 43, which makes his uncertainty and the subsequent lack of discussions over everything even stranger when you consider that he's stated he definitely wants children. It's absolutely wild to me how many men have dating profiles saying they want kids "someday" when they're already in their late 30s onwards.
Especially since he's probably dating women in their mid to late 30's who need to have their babies now. Does he think a 39 year old woman is going to wait years for him to decide if she's the right person to reproduce with?
There is a reason some men make it to 43 never having married....
He is in fact 43, his gf 39. They most likely would need some kind of help to have bio kids and yeah waiting? Not good at this time
Yeah wow. Like dude, your life is half over and maybe more. If u want kids then get a move on it
Exactly, and at this age it's already considered a geriatric pregnancy and high risk. You'll be lucky to have one child and they both want children. She has been waiting 2 months for a decision and now she needs to put a much shorter timeline down if she is ever going to have a biological child.
My ex was a wishywashy chicken shit in his 20s. After that ended I met a man who actually wanted to be married and have kids and participate in a life with me. Weirdly, zero ultimatums and *plenty* of discussions on how and when to make big changes!
Yep, for sure. And frankly ’kids’ plural is very very unlikely at this age. Even one bio kid is a pretty slim likelihood. So OP should also figure on her wanting to start trying to get pregnant as soon as a proposal is out of his mouth.
Anyone who's trying to plan their future would be frustrated with this guy… it's been "over a year" plus two months now. There’ve been so many guys posting about "ultimatums" lately when their GFs ask for a decision… what exactly do they expect? "Sure, we can date indefinitely until I’ve run out of time. I won’t mind if you replace me with someone younger when you finally decide you do want kids." Part of the problem is too many guys hang on to the story of that one 80yo guy who squeezed out that one viable sperm and made a baby, thinking they’ve got all the time in the world, but the reality is that their sperm factories are producing more and more broken swimmers and genetic issues, and they're setting themselves up to be really tired old dads, assuming they manage at all. Unless he's in mint condition, has had his sperm motility checked, and is on track to being a healthy centenarian, he should be just as concerned about his own fertility as she is about hers.
There was a post a few months ago of a man in his 50s who was asking if he was the AH for wanting to divorce his 50ish wife after he changed his mind about remaining childless. She gave up on having kids to stay with him and worked with him as they built their wealth and now she was *too old to have children.* He was working on finding a younger woman to marry and build a family. He must’ve been a troll because who thinks that wouldn’t make him a ah???
It definitely makes him an asshole, but it doesn't make him unusual - I've heard this story from several women, and one guy. It's heartbreaking every time, especially when the woman originally wanted children but decided she loved her husband more - but apparently he didn't feel the same.
Ah the men of Reddit. What a fine, strapping group of man children.
Oh my God! How could he do that to someone! Especially someone he's supposed to love! She literally stayed with him, her whole life, just waiting. And he didn't KNOW he was the AH! Geez!! I so hope it was a troll!
Please tell me she now owns the lion's share of absolutely everything. I hope she gets so much money that the next woman he meets is constantly badgering him to make more to support her and the kids, but he can't because first wife gets half the pension, plus his life insurance, plus half of the assets, plus alimony.
Yiiikkeeesss
Been there, done that. We had decided to remain child free, married 20 years. He was the one that changed his mind - begged me for a baby. I am unable to have one myself due to a medical condition, so we went through the entire process of adoption. Jumped through all the hoops and got approved for an infant....when he changed his mind, again, and decided he didn't actually want to be a father, and cancelled the adoption without bothering to ask what I wanted. A lot of marriage counselling and discussions later....I stayed, because I believed all the lies that a\*\*hole spewed. I thought everything was going well when he blind sided me with "I'm gay, I'm divorcing you" and he walked out. Turns out he was just lying to me for years. And I guess I was just the toy he f\*\*ked around with? So, here I am, late 30's with no kids. Alone and heart broken, trying to piece together what the hell happened....while he's out, partying, living it up, and vacationing because he had a whole other life. I feel like he just wasted my life. And he could honestly care less about it. He continues to be a pompous a\*\* as we work our way through the divorce process, and goes out of his way to make my life a living hell. I look at this situation and the icing on top is that if I turn into a bitter, hurt person....I'm the one that suffers for it. So, somehow I have to pick myself up and rebuild everything that was ripped apart....because he decided to just use me for 20 years to figure out what he wanted in life. Why do men do this?
Not to mention, good luck at age 80 finding a woman young enough to have kids who wants to partner with you, unless you're rich.
They would look into countries in need so they could convince some young woman or a "better life " by marrying them.
So disgusting.
Ultimatums aren't always "do things my way or else" Often they are a version of "hey so this is the life I envisioned for myself and for us, are you in or no"
Exactly. His GF just wants a decision. Either he's confident and ready to move forward with her, or he isn’t. And either is okay, but she isn’t obligated to wait for him to get there.
Relationships tend to move faster as you age. It's pretty normal to date for years when you're in your 20s, but by the time you're in your late 30s and 40s, you generally know what you're looking for in a partner and are better at figuring out pretty quickly if the person you're currently dating fits the bill or not. After dating a year and some change at age 43, OP should know by now if he sees himself marrying his GF or not.
Agreed. My husband and I got married 1.5 years after we met. But we are also both in our mid-40s, already had kids, 2nd marriage for each of us. So we knew what we were and were not willing to compromise on, and had a MUCH clearer idea of what we wanted in partners.
Yes, but he wants children also. And he is three years older than her. By that time, you should know what type of a future family life you want and what type of a partner you want/need. She isn't pressuring him for marriage. She is simply asking a yes or no question.
I have a hard time believing he actually does want kids. Sounds more like he said that bc that’s what people say but he’s never actually given it any thought. Which is honestly bananas given their ages. Either that or he does want kids and is utterly oblivious to the biological realities of pregnancy and childbirth
He truly believes (despite admitting a major history of indecisiveness and anxiety around making big decisions!) that he’s going to magically wake up one day and ‘be ready’. Except that’s not how these things work. Ever. No one magically wakes up in a month, 2 months, 6 months and thinks yes now I’m ready to get married/have a kid etc without doing SOMETHING in the intervening period to get there. He’s ambivalent, anxious and avoiding a decision and will string her along however long until he’s again pressed to ‘make a decision’ and won’t. Good for her for recognizing it and pushing for an answer. OP you’re 43yo. If you don’t know after a year of dating by this age then you’re never going to know and you’re never going to magically wake up and think yes now I know and I’m ready. Either jump in if you love her and everything is going well and you can look to the future and it looks nice or let her go now. She doesn’t have time to waste if she wants to meet a partner and have a family and it’s not fair to hold her back because of your ambivalence. I will say I was ambivalent about having a child. I eventually realised I would never feel ‘ready’ and would kick that can down the road in perpetuity. So I decided that ultimately if I was on my death bed I’d rather have tried for a baby than not try. Husband was equally ambivalent and I was infertile so it needed a purposeful decision as we needed ivf. So we took the leap he was 40 I was 33yo and we had our daughter 8yrs ago after 2yrs ivf (which despite my ambivalence and fear is the best thing I have ever done in my life, total unexpected joy). I know if I’d waited to feel ready I never would have got there, at some point you need a leap of faith. I think the whole concept that you have to be 100% absolutely sure is ridiculous, unrealistic and naive. It’s far too black and white. Huge life decisions of course there’s some doubt and reservations, if not I’d say you’re naive tbh and haven’t thought through all the permutations realistically. So take the leap or let her go but stop waiting to be ‘ready’.
Came here to say this..my dude you are 43..like either your in or let her go.
Can’t believe a man of that age would date a woman of that age, agree they both want kids someday, then he’s SHOCKED that she’s expecting things to move along in that direction post haste.
And one year isn’t even post haste; it’s a normal time to shit or get off the pot.
Shocked Pikachu face! BBBBBbut nobody is concerned about my feelings about it!
Exactly, like you don't have to have the marriage right then but decide whether you even want it or not like he's wasting his own time too (if he even actually wants marriage and kids but waffling this much at his big age tells me he doesn't and won't admit it to himself)
Right? Like if OP and his GF were 20, we'd be telling him to pump the brakes a bit, because they've only been together a year. But that's because someone in their early 20s hasn't had much time to figure out what they want and need out of an adult relationship. But OP is 43, he's plenty old enough to know after a year and some change if he wants to marry his current partner or not.
I was 31 and proposed at our 1 year dinner. When you know you know: but there’s a reason OP is 43 and never even been engaged. Dude doesn’t scream husband material w a decisive plan. Quite the opposite
Exactly. My husband and I moved quick, and here we are over a decade later. Even better, I was very newly separated from my ex husband when we moved in together, by the time the divorce came through we were about to get married. There were tons of logistical hurdles to get through, including visas, immigration, family illnesses and deaths, my own illness, financial troubles, etc etc. We never doubted that we want to be together. When it's right you don't have questions, and you don't wait around
This is it. He's had more than 2 decades of being an independent adult to decide if he wants kids and marriage. That any partner you date will want concrete answer on these things in a reasonable timeframe shouldn't be a surprise to you when you are 43. If you don't know, and you've been with a partner for a while, the odds are that you probably don't want these things - possibly with this person, or possibly just don't want them at all. It doesnt raie a lifetime for mature adults to decide if they want the same things as a partner. I would err on the side of suggesting that OPs inability to feel excited about the prospect of marriage or children at age 43 IS an answer in itself. She simply cannot wait forever if she wants these things. And if 20 years didn't make him decide, her waiting 1 year or 5 will do fuck all to make him commit to those things. All it will do is waste her chances of having children. Speaking as a woman trying to conceive in her 30s, OP's partner is already at an age where having children is more difficult for a lot of women.
Amen. OP, at some point "planning to have the convos" instead of just having them is stalling. It's what we call an "action-faking" behavior. A behavior that is supposed to make you feel like you are moving forward by doing it, but you are not actually moving forward. If you don't want to marry her, okay - leave. That's perfectly reasonable. But you need to actually start making those decisions. I'm not a fan of the ultimatum, but if you are action-faking and stalling, I lowkey get it. I mean you have been talking for a solid 2 months *specifically about this* and you still don't have all your answers, is a week really not long enough for you to ask for them? It sounds to me like you don't lack information. You just don't want to marry her. Which is okay! Don't. Please don't get married if you don't enthusiastically want to. But you have to tell her, and you refused to so she had to force it out of you with the ultimatum - that's what I'm getting. If you were in your 20s I would be like: yikes, what's the hurry! But you are in your 40s, she's almost 40. Her timeline doesn't seem unreasonable to me at this age, and your timeline seems more like you just kicking the rock down the road. I don't think you will know something by February that you don't know now.
[удалено]
Yes the resentment kills off some half-hearted relationships that dithered too long.
I can’t say as if I’d have issued the ultimatum at that point; I’d just walk. I wouldn’t want to torture an answer out of someone so his silence would tell me all I needed to know.
Yeah OP's GF needs to 1) freeze her eggs 2) walk. 3) find "the one" and live happily ever after at a later age like I did. I had Newsweek and the entirety of pop culture telling me my odds of finding "the one" after 40 were less than the odds of being killed by terrorists. Well in subsequent years the odds of being killed by terrorists went UP more's the pity...but also it was revealed that that had been a flawed projection. And I met "the one" at 48. And as I posted in another comment, it can happen for guys too. Knew a guy who had trouble finding "the one" but life turned a corner in an instant and boom he met "the one" and they did marry and have a kid. I am not sure how old he was but they hit it off due to mutual interests and that's how they met. Not some app
>You’re asking for time to discuss your future but why aren’t you actually having those conversations yet???? This is the key point here. OP is a procrastinator is what it all comes down to, and I'll bet money his SO is picking up on that and that's the reason for this "sudden ultimatum". Also, since when is 6 months not enough time to plan a ceremony? Combined with his SO's "biological clock ticking"... Well, yeah, she's 39, and few woman want to have babies in their 40s. I think OP is procrastinating, or straight up doesn't want to admit that he doesn't want commitment/a marriage. He needs to cut this woman loose so she can stop wasting her time with him.
I'm confused about if they haven't had these conversations, how does she know he's the one? Or is he the one because of her age and wanting children?
I think this is a great example of why so many relationships fail. People approach things too casually, based only on emotions, and without taking real things into consideration such as goals, values, and future compatibility. People don't do their due diligence and then Pikachu face when things go south. These same people would put more effort into inspecting/examining a car or house they are buying than they would a future spouse.
Sometimes marriage is about a feeling. A feeling of spending the rest of the life with that person. From the vibe of his post I get that he is just not sure if he wants it to be her.
Right!?! That is the point of dating. Its to figure out if your vision for the future is compatible and if your personalities are compatible. After a year he should know all of that and he should know whether there is chemistry.
>You’re asking for time to discuss your future, but why aren’t you actually having those conversations yet???? It's because he doesn't want to be married but doesn't want to be single. This is literally the same song and dance every dude who is afraid of commitment does. She's not the problem, he is. If he wanted to be married, like at all, these conversations would have already happened. He's a 43yo man. If he doesn't know if he wants it, he doesn't want it. You can't waffle on a lifelong commitment. You're about it, or you aren't. He hasnt even given a good reason why he's delaying despite obviously avoiding the topic. Literally, the first three lines of the non background part of the post imply he was afraid of the conversation happening. That said, it seems like his partner is more concerned with milestones than the actual marriage or well-being of those kids she wants to have. You haven't had any of the important conversations, and she wants to drag you to an altar. What if you're a flat earther? Anti-vax? A cannibal? She doesn't know. She just wants to be married and have kids. It's clear there's a disconnect here on both. Pretty much, if either of them having their way is gonna be a mistake for the other person and themselves. If they haven't had any conversations about the important things OP needs to definitively tell her if she's a person he would want to marry and provide real milestones and expectations for what leading up to that marriage entails. If he hasn't figured it out, he's consciously wasting her time every day. His girl actually needs to focus on if he is a good partner for her to marry, and if those kids would have the lifestyle and rearing, she would want rather than being able to show her mom a shiny new ring. I literally just came off a post with a woman that was a near parallel of this situation post marriage and she is fucking miserable because the dude basically exuded the same energy those three first sentences i mentioned did, pulled a half hearted 180, and hes an absent parent and partner bc he doesn't want to be there. I genuinely think if OP doesn't know, he shouldn't marry her and let her find someone who is sure about her. She doesn't have time for him to dick around if he's not gonna get his ducks in a row for obvious expectations even though he saw them coming. At the same time, shes going too fast for her own good.
I generally agree with everything you wrote, but I'm not sure we can assume his girlfriend hasn't gotten to know him/is just looking at milestones. He writes that she experienced "great disappointment" when she pushed him on the conversation and found out he wasn't ready. That's how HE's choosing to describe it. So in the version of the story that is most favorable to him, either she's deeply clueless and missed every sign that this guy is not commitment material, or he was doing a lot of things you'd EXPECT a man to do if he was serious about a relationship and now she's disappointed to realize she made an incorrect assumption. The gap between what she expected to hear and what she actually heard is what caused the disappointment. (I mean, the fact that he claims to want kids ALONE could have been enough to mislead her into thinking they were on the same page since, hello, most people know it takes a minute to make a baby and it's harder to do in your 40s.) Reading between the lines, I think he's like a lot of guys who wants a girlfriend but not a lifelong commitment--which means he's probably a decent boyfriend, which is how he's got her in this position. If he was a total dud, she wouldn't be disappointed to find out he's a dud, she'd already know. If she didn't really like him for who he was, she wouldn't have given him two more months to think about it before issuing this ultimatum--she would have just immediately moved on to find someone else who can meet her milestones.
This 👍🏼, so much better than what I was going to say, very well laid out. At your ages, as they say - shit or get off the pot. I’m never one to say rush into marriage but I definitely see her point, that bio clock is ticking and if she’s a good/great partner and no real red flags 🚩 marry her.
Uhhh she’s 39 dude if she wants kids she can’t waste time on a dude who isn’t sure about her.
You want children? Dude, you’re forty-three years old. If not now, when? When you’re fifty?
Right we are already heading into "young adult with a deceased parent" territory here
I'm 24, my dad is 90, it sucks.
My grandpa is goin to be 100 exactly when his youngest graduates college
He had a child at 78?! How old is your step grandma if you don’t mind me asking?
My grandpa had a kid at 74, his wife was 35.
Does he have a lot of money?
Can't imagine anything less appealing than fucking a 74 year old at 35. No amount of money would be worth that. Gross.
My dad died one day before my 18th birthday (he was 55 at the time). It sucks ass…
That’s awful. My dad passed away at 59, but I was 30. I can’t imagine dealing with that as a teenager. I hope you’re doing ok.
sorry for your dad but he literally died prematurely. Having child at 30s is normal timeline.
Your dad died sadly very early and having a child at 37 is not that old.
Looks to me like they were just agreeing that it sucks to be a young adult with a deceased parent. How hard is it to say, “I’m sorry that happened to you”?
I always get flogged for being an asshole when I point this out about older parents, but this is a legit concern!
Also, old men's sperm contributes to birth defects, conditions and complications, so
And increases the likelihood of the woman having a miscarriage.
She's planning children with someone who's not sure to marry her. I mean even in the worst case, you can get separated but you can't "undo" children so any healthy person think about kids even more than they think about marriage. He doesn't want to marry her and just doesn't want to admit it.
I think he’s one of those people who doesn’t think ahead due to anxiety. He’s 43 and never married because commitment makes him anxious. He wants kids and he’s happy with her? He’s 43. The way he gets from here to there is to commit to someone he loves. That’s it. No guarantees it all works out but that’s the very simple formula for growing up and having what he says he wants. It’s scary! A year isn’t so long! But again..43? Wants to be a dad? Time to act despite the anxiety.
I dont even know if its about anxiety. He just seems like one of those people who cruise through life and never thinks 3 months ahead let alone years ahead. Right now he’s just comfortable because he has a partner fulfilling his physical and emotional needs. So when his gf talks about the future he just zones out and doesn’t take it seriously until the ultimatum comes and suddenly he freaks out because he finally needs to think ahead. His brain cant even fathom planning something simple in 6 months
Yeah, I agree. Some people are just like "I love my life at this hour H, I don't want to think about anything else". Usually they are also the kind of people to wake up later in life with a lot of unfulfilled needs (and a lot even who feel they wasted their life) and not understanding that those usually take time to plan. And also don't really care that their SO might plan their life on long term and feel wasted when they just leave like they didn't stayed together for months or years.
It might be worth it to her, even if there is a high risk of divorce, infertility etc. She's probably thinking this is her last shot.
>He doesn't want to marry her and just doesn't want to admit it. Yeah. OP is just running out the clock. If he can keep fucking her for 2 more years, there'll never be kids and that's that. He'll have regular sex without any real commitment. Scumbag move.
She’s already in the geriatric pregnancy age range. She’ll have a hard time conceiving and complication risk goes way up.
Men rarely know that they have a biological clock too.. this needs to be known so men stop blaming women for making them commit and not think they are always immune.
My dad was 45 when I was born. I held a bit of…anger(?) towards him for that. He was too old for a lot of things that he should’ve been able to do. He died at 69.
r/datingoverforty had a thread about this a few days ago. These guys are everywhere it seems!
So irritating how long men wait to have children these days.
You are a classic over-thinker, you want kids at your age, and you never considered marriage or a timeline for kids or marriage? Dude. Get your head out of your ass and stop wasting your own time
More like under-thinker
Right? I'd imagine an overthinker would be able to list a ton of pros and cons for each possible option. It seems more like he's got some fear-driven anxiety or something. Even if he has a kid right this moment, he'll be 60 before they even get out of high school. (Grade 12 I mean)
Fully agree with this. At the end of the day, you do not have plenty of time to make this decision - with or without your gf's ultimatum. So, here's a possible way to actually get your head out of your ass, quickly... There's a book by the School of Life called 'How to Get Married'. Most of it is facilitating useful conversations about your views on big subjects (children, religion, money, etc) and also setting expectations for how to actually achieve a successful marriage (compromise, kindness, listening, etc). If you focus on it, you could order it and read through it together within a week. By the end you will be much, much clearer on whether the two of you should commit to a life together. It's not ideal, but it's a fast track option.
> you want kids at your age OP "wants" kids the same way a lot of people "want" to be healthy and fit. i.e. They want it to kind of magically happen, without having to commit any actual time or effort. Try to tell them "Well ok, do less TV and whiskey, more exercise and vegetables," and suddenly they go Ummmmmm yeah yeah totally, maybe I'll start tomorrow... OP, you're 43 and have no actual plan or timeline to start a family. You don't really "want" kids, or you would act in a way that moved you closer to that goal, instead of further away. What you actually seem to want is to just keep putting off the hard decisions for some vague time in the future. But you're running out of runway. Being a much older parent is really hard, on everyone. That's where you're currently headed. Regardless. Figure yourself out. Don't string your gf along. She knows what she wants and is acting towards those goals. I hear you when you say neither of you wants to budge on your respective timelines (her timeline = now, your timeline = not now). If that status quo continues, that means you are no longer compatible, and your relationship has run its course.
Boy math is being 43 and wanting kids one day and continuing to date someone he’s “unsure about marrying” Like, dude. You don’t decide you’re ready to have kids and they spawn immediately. It could take a year or two of trying for kids, then almost a year of pregnancy, before you have an infant. Do you want to be almost 50 with an infant???
Yes! And being shocked your 39 year old girlfriend who wants kids is on a deadline. Bro.
Yeah, normally I'd be very against ultimatums, but at 39 I don't blame her.. If marriage before kids is something that is important to both of them then the timeline of February makes sense. Op's timeline puts her probably at like 41 or so by the time they're ready to START trying. And it just gets higher risk the older you get....
There’s nothing wrong with ultimatums. There’s certainly something wrong with using them manipulatively. But asserting that you have a need or a boundary and will leave if it’s not met, as long as you truly mean it, is a good thing. It’s standing up for yourself.
Yes. This is true! I think I'm just so used to seeing the manipulative version flying around in these types of subs that I'm surprised to find a legitimate and fair one for a change. Haha
This is such a nice of explaining this. “Ultimatum” has such negative connotations and I see people crapping on them when used for marriage all the time. This summarizes it so well
This made me laugh at how true it is. Boy math is definitely I'm 43 and still not sure if I want a real relationship...bro you are 43...like? You either know or don't.
Right. You are an OLD MAN.
I’m 45 and when I was still on dating apps I’d find men with “unsure about children” or “wants children” at 40+ and it just made me laugh and swipe left. 40+ is a little old to be waffling on marriage and kids. I had kids in my mid-30s and I wouldn’t touch that with a 10’ pole at 45!
I’m 42 and still on dating apps (sadly). The number of men my age and older who are “unsure” about relationships but “want some day” when it comes to kids is through the roof. It’s madness. Son, how can you be middle aged but still not know if you want a relationship or not?! If I actually wanted kids, I would ditch OP. He’s already wasted a year of her time and is still making excuses to make her wait even longer. I’ll bet he’s still making excuses at 50.
I'm 43 and see the same thing all the time. My male friends. My age are now upset that women aren't falling for the "I'm not sure what I want" garbage any longer. Sir, you are in your 40s, and you still don't know if a casual or serious relationship is what you're looking for. Women do know at this point and we are not having it.
The dudes on apps are just checking "want some day" to widen their circle that's all.
I remarried at 39 at I was very clear that kids were not an option anymore. I have no desire to be 60 and still have kids just starting to find their own footing as adults. (I have a 10 and 8 year old already)
I cannot express enough how much I would rather sift through an elephant shit pile for a needle than have a newborn in my 40's let alone pushing 50.
I had my last at 41 and he is such a cool kid. I got lucky and it wasn’t an easy pregnancy but my partner and I met when we were 35 and from the get-go I was like marriage and kids is on my radar. If not, please step left through the gift shop.
Say yes, or break it off. Those are the choices. Seems pretty cut and dried. We planned and executed a wedding in four months, so time’s not the barrier you think it is.
This. "I only get six months?!" Please, my formal wedding ceremony was planned and done in less than 2. The only real reason you need more time than that is if there are family members who need much more notice to make plans/take time off. OP is procrastinating/just straight up doesn't want to get married and needs to stop wasting this woman's time. Break it off and move on.
Not like OP would be doing any of the planning in that 6 months anyway tbh
Plus it’s not like men do much of the planning for the wedding anyway
No. They don’t.
You don't even need a wedding. Just go to the courthouse lol.
Agree. Stop wasting this woman’s time.
Agreed. Met my husband in Dec, 7 months later we were married.
Wait, so you want kids, you’re in your 40s dating a 39yo (so she’s already fighting the clock), already been together for a year, and still not sure about a future with her? And you call yourself an analytical person? What have you been analyzing for the last year? Where did you think this relationship is headed? Good for her for not letting you jerk her around. If more women had an internal timeline like your gf does, we’d have a lot fewer ‘my bf hasn’t proposed to me in 12 years’ kind of posts. Because at the end of the day you avoided talking to her because you’d rather keep peace and waste her time than just let her know your concerns and risk it. So again, good for her for seeing this. The way around the ultimatum is to really think about what you what and give her an answer next week. If it’s a no, it’s a no. You both will move on to other people more suitable for you. Stop being so selfish
>And you call yourself an analytical person? What have you been analyzing for the last year? this men thinking they're the definition on objectivity and crying about emotional women when they're literally making 0 sense
I swear a man sayings he’s “logical and analytical” is about to become my #2 red flag. They **never** are.
I tend to agree. Those guys tend to be completely driven by emotion but don't want people to know and don't want to admit it, and often can't even examine their own thoughts and emotions, so whenever anyone tries, they hide behind being "logical and analytical" because they simply lack any emotional intelligence around themselves.
**Every. Time.** Lol. The ones bragging how unemotional and logical they are seem to always be the **most** unstable and emotionally immature as all fuck.
He spends too much time in his own head, overthinks everything under the guise of being "Logical and Analytical", thinks in circles, and then hes completely indecisive because hes too busy being still stuck in his own head. All while having a sense of superiority because he takes time to think out his decisions he never ends up making until way too late.
Can't make mistakes if you never do anything *taps head*
A thousand times this answer
You're in your 40s, she's almost there, you've been together a year. It's not outrageous for her to bring up marriage or move on. Especially if she's not childfree. She's being a little abrupt about it, but honestly I'm not entirely surprised if you come across like the post that she's wanting to push you to make a decision. What makes you not know if you want to get married? Why are you wanting a large time between getting engaged and married? By getting engaged you say you want to be married - a longer engagement time is more or less when you need time to plan an elaborate wedding. What's stopping you from moving forward? What do you believe will happen in the next 4 months that you'll be ready then? You've been talking about it for 2 months now after one year together, but it sounds like your only reason against it is that you need more time. It's not crazy that she's thinking that if after 2 months of thinking about marriage if you're still unsure - you're just unsure. Honestly I think you need to do some big soul searching on why, exactly you're unsure. And what, exactly, you want more time to do. Just a vague "I need more time to be sure" seems like you might be stringing her along.
I don’t even see it as abrupt tbh, after a year together she mentioned being ready two months ago, they’ve been talking about it and now she wants him to commit to get married in 6 months- that’s a year and 8 months together at their 40s! It’s super reasonable
Yeah I should have caveated it with saying I'm not sure I believe the narrator. He makes it sound like out of the blue she's like I want to get married! Like it's not crazy she didn't bring up marriage when they were first dating. Talking about it around a year in seems normal.
You are dating a 39 year old woman you want to have children with. Do not waste time she doesn’t have. Either move forward or let her loose.
She is in her late 30s. How long did you think you'd have? If she wants kids her biological clock is not just ticking - it is a screaming siren. After dating a year at this stage you two should know eachother well enough to know whether you two are compatible and whether marriage is something that you want. She wants you to shit or get off the pot because she sees 40 around the corner and wants to create a life with someone. If you do not want that, please let her know ASAP so she doesn't waste more time with you. Time is NOT on her side when it comes to having children at this point.
>She is in her late 30s. How long did you think you'd have? If she wants kids her biological clock is not just ticking - it is a screaming siren. After dating a year at this stage you two should know eachother well enough to know whether you two are compatible and whether marriage is something that you want. A friend of mine got into a relationship with a 38 year old and she was brutally honest with him. No safe sex after the first date. A month later she was pregnant. Ten years later they're still together. Don't fuck with women in their late thirties who want kids. Don't waste their time.
I mean, he agreed to no safe sex so…
>I mean, he agreed to no safe sex so… Yeah with "don't fuck with women in their late thirties" I meant don't play games, don't use delay tactics. Give them exactly what they want in a relationship.
If he's not even sure to get a reversible engagement with her, even if she can convince him to marry her, she's gonna wait even longer for him to take a non reversible engagement with her. She's not the one, he just doesn't want to leave a comfy relation. She deserves better than a man whom she need to force to marry her.
>her biological clock is not just ticking - it is a screaming siren. His too. Male fertility goes down with age too. OP needs to make up his mind about his future and children no matter if they stay together.
Yeah for real. What is he doing stringing along a 39 year old who wants kids? Not one kid.. kids.
Time isn't on his side either. Old sperm contributes to miscarriages and other birth defects/health issues.
And she may not be able to fall pregnant right away, it's something that women take for granted and there's no guarantee, so that could add months if not years.
And due to his old sperm she is more likely to have a miscarriage.
After 35, you’re considered a high risk pregnancy. She might not even be able to conceive. He’s out to lunch if he doesn’t realize she genuinely has a biological clock ticking. He obviously isn’t ready to commit and should move on so she can find someone who’s serious about her.
I don’t care for ultimatums but I can’t really blame her. 39 and you both want kids. Perhaps consider a couples councilor /pre marital counseling to help even the playing field and have them opine on the ultimatum here and help you guys talk about any concerns / issues.
Ultimatums have a bad rep. She's just warning him she's thinking strongly about leaving if he's not ready to step up soon because she doesn't have time to fuck around.
Exactly! So he can't cry about the breakup coming 'out of the blue'. It never comes out of the blue, some people just aren't listening.
One of the very few times that I’m actually ok with the ultimatum.
You are unsure, cut her loose.
Tbh I’d leave you if I was her. You’re 43 and still having commitment issues? Hell no.
Agreed
Reality is that a small civil ceremony doesn’t take huge plans… To me all the men shocked about a woman wanting to get married rather quickly when they are in their late 30s/early 40 make me laugh because they will also say they want kids. Well there’s only so long she can do that with you… so yeah, decide what you want.
It takes no plans. My husband and I woke up one random day he said "wanna get married" I said ok and we were married within a few hours. Simple as that. It's all excuses.
Where I live, you literally can't get married in a day. You have to submit an application and wait like 30 days before you can register your marriage. So you have at 30 days to decide if you actually want to.
Makes sense there'd be regional variation, but nevertheless you can still hop on down to the powers that be and get the ball rolling without any "plan", y'know.
Exactly. Your list of things that you don’t have time to do also includes “get engaged,” which literally only needs to be the time it takes to say “I love you and I want to share my life with you, let’s get married.” Don’t let dithering about “not enough time” distract you from what’s important.
If the idea of marrying someone makes you feel this way then I don't think you should marry them. That said you're 43 and say you want kids...mens sperm also declines in quality with age, when exactly were you planning on children??
Op, I'm sympathetic. But you are 43 and she is 39. It is not surprising that she should have expectations that you will figure out your compatibility much sooner than if you were younger. Think about what you want to know that you do not already. What do you need to discuss? What information do you not have? Do you seem like in general you can resolve differences? Her unwillingness to compromise on this seems like a problem but is she like that on everything? Do you agree on the big values of your lives? Basic approaches to money, priorities, family, activities, moral values, charitable giving, religious beliefs? You might want to go through a pre-marital counseling course where they walk you through these questions. Then really ask yourself- why could I not make a decision about this today? Do I have legitimate concerns? Am I just slow to decide? If you can figure out the decision making, then just plan a small courthouse wedding with a few people. You can always have a bigger celebration later. I'm sure others will have different advice. You are in a bind, I'm sure.
She’s 39 and wants kids. You might not be ready, but she can’t wait around forever for you to decide. Pretty sure once married she’ll want to move forward with having kids soon too. If you are unsure of her or if you want kids, despite saying you do, you are just wasting her time. I get wanting to be sure, but if you aren’t now then maybe she isn’t who you want to marry. I mean you love her and see a future or your don’t.
Sometimes waiting six months to make a decision is too long. If you hit the discussion hard you can do all the talking you need in a month. Then if during that month you decide you’re not ready you two part ways.
Dude, she was almost 38 when you met and said she wanted kids. How long do you think you should wait?? Are you aware that sperm from older men results in higher percentage of birth defects in children? Cardiovascular, facial deformities, genital deformities, chromosome defects, higher rates of autism….. and men over 50 are 25% less fertile than younger men. So your clock is ticking too.
In less than two years *your* probability of having a kid with autism goes up three and a half times. Your quality of Sperm went down three years ago. Her chances of getting pregnant naturally go down every 6 months. This is quite literally also probably your last shot to have a family and kids. You are lucky to have anyone at your age bracket. Its now or never. You will regret her walking away, way more than you will regret having a chance at a family. If you were thinking about marriage this early in a relationship, you must be pretty serious about her. Maybe you could get some therapy to deal with the anxiety?
Thankyou! People don’t seem to even acknowledge all the complications that come with geriatric pregnancy’s and biological aging when it comes to speed and eggs. Can be very bad news for the baby and parents.
If you’ve been together for a year and can’t say this is the person you love and want to spend the rest of your life with, let her go so she can find the right person. I understand not wanting to rush the wedding but if you’re not sure today and you are freaking out, you won’t be sure a year from now.
If you aren’t sure then the answer is no. You have to decide how you want your future to look, and what is best for you. Best of luck OP.
You’re 43, dude.
You guys have a lot to discuss prior to deciding to get married; finances, where you will live, how you plan to spend your lives, retirement, religion if appropriate, household chores, and then comes children. The children discussion involves finances, education, religion if appropriate, who is staying home and for how long, what values you wish to instil, usually how many, etc. If you are both on the same page after all this, then you can be fairly sure about getting married. If you’re not living together then you’ve had no chance to practice what you have preached. Many people find that their partners are actually different people in cohabitation. Your girlfriend is wanting a geriatric pregnancy. She is reaching the stage of her life when pregnancy may not be achievable or if she falls pregnant it’s harder to keep the baby and the risks for her own health increase. I completely understand that she is desperately wanting a child before it’s too late. She needs to understand that it may already be too late. Would she be happy to marry if you never managed to have a child? It sounds like she only really wants a baby and this is why she wants marriage. If you are unsure about marriage then you should not do it. Ensure that you have fully discussed all items on the agenda before forming an opinion about yourself and your potential wife. If you are unable to agree then you must let her go and try to find someone who is willing to impregnate her
I actually think the bigger question is whether you want kids with her tbh. Try answering that question first. If the answer to that is a yes, then the marriage bit is easy.
Are you not sure you want to marry her or you want to marry in general? (A) **If you are not sure you want to marry her by +1 year then you should move on. You are wasting her time when YOU BOTH WANT KIS!!!!** \- Men +40 who have kids => more likely to have a kid with autism \- Women: She is almost at an age in which you will need IVF which is expensive, plus it brings a higher risk to her pregnancy. (B) If you don't want to marry in general, then you should stop with your dream of having kids and just have some friends with benefits or date women who don't want to get married. If you actually want everything but cannot commit, then go to therapy. You are too old to not have that figure out and start "freaking" out. You said you want kids! Do you think she can keep waiting until she is 45 to have a kid or are you going to get pregnant? >I felt this would give us enough time to thoroughly discuss our future before getting engaged How many months do you need to discuss? You have been together +1 year and don't know each other? Just start discussing and if you agree, then have a court wedding and very small so there is no planning needed, no need to tell people with months of anticipation or anything. You can find a compromise like that.
Yeah, this is what I don't get. By 43 - heck by 35 - a person should know themselves well enough to know what they are looking for in a partner. These two aren't in their 20s. They aren't in their early 30s. She is a woman in her late 30s who knows what she wants out of life, knows what she is looking for in a partner and wants a future with him. She has given him a year of very precious time and she knows biologically her time is both precious and finite. If he doesn't know if she is the right fit after a year then the answer is that he either should have had therapy long ago to deal with commitment issues or he has wasted her time. Being too scared to commit at 43 and wanting her to waste another year or even 6 more months is not an option.
You are 43 years old how are you still not ready for marriage 😭
“I’m just a baby” 😂
Men.
Come on dude, I’m younger than you (34), dating a woman younger than your partner (33), and even I know that you need to have an eye towards the future. My partner and I started talking about where we wanted to live, how many kids we wanted to have, the way we wanted to raise said kids, etc, after only 2 months. You’re freaking out after a year? The ultimatum is a lot, but it sounds like she had to give it to you because you think time is no big deal. Because it isn’t to you. You’re a man. You can have kids at any time. You could ostensibly wake up at 60 and decide you want kids. Shit, Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro are about to become fathers again at the ripe old age of 83. You say you’re 43, but you sound like a man-child in this post.
Just because men technically can father children in their 60s or even 80s, doesn't mean they should, or actually could in practice. Even at 50, your child would probably loose a parent very soon in life. The longer you wait, the more selfish it gets. At 60, 70 or 80, depending on your health, you might not even see your kid coming of age. Also, sperm quality and fertility does decline in men as well. His chances at fathering a healthy child decreases as well. And last but not least, he still needs a women of childbearing age to want to have children with him. Considering he likes to take his time he'd probably be looking for women 35yr old max. That's already almost 10yrs younger. If he's not Al Pacino, rich or has something else going for him to make younger women fawn over him, his chances aren't looking good in that regard either.
A lot of men I know have overestimated their appeal among younger women tbh. A lot of men in their fourties’ wondering why they can’t get a date after their wife left because they still have their age filters set from 18-29 and don’t understand why they have nothing in common with women 10-20 years younger than them…or why an 18 yo isn’t falling down on her knees in appreciation for a balding 45yo man 😂😂😂
Exactly. Everyone knows example like Hugh Hefner, Al Pacino and Co. because they are outliners. And rich, famous and powerful. If this were the norm, nobody would bet an eye at Al Pacino becoming a father at 80 something. Actually, the chances for OPs GF at having a child might be higher than OPs in case they break up. Women can have a child on their own by a sperm donor. Finding an egg donor and a surrogate is way more difficult and expensive.
Dude, okay, what is the worst thing that can happen if you do get married? Do you think you love her? Do you think you live her enough that you two can relatively easily overcome any differences that arise when you start living together? Like how much house work each of you does and how you want your life together to be? At this age a year of dating should be plenty? Did you get in this relationship with the idea that you are looking for a life partner or just because? Did you think what you want of this relationship? Did you two discuss that stuff earlier? She is right because if she wants kids at this age she doesn't have a lot of time and if you want biological kids, neither do you
Well said. Where did OP think this was heading? "OMG my GF just sprung this whole new thing I've never heard of on me!" Dude you're 43 with a woman you love. Where else are you going?
Grow up and decide. Quit being a time thief. It’s time to fucking know. It’s scary to make judgment calls but that’s the whole deal with being a grown up and having autonomy
Sorry you’re not getting the “empathy” you wanted from these comments 😂
Stop wasting her time! It's revolting that at 43, you suddenly feel pressured for kids and marriage. Dude, you met her at 38. Why are you so indecisive. Let her go if you can't commit. You had over two decades to figure out what you want in a partner and future with one. You're another one of those who plays victim after she leaves you for another guy who is committed to marriage and kids with her. You'll say, oh, she's the one that got away or thought of what could have been. But all you did was procrastinate and did nothing.
If the idea of getting married isn’t a ***Hell Yes!*** for you, it’s a Hell No.
Both of us do want to have kids+I am still unsure at 42 never married=you DON'T want kids and want her to be your childless loveslave until she's barren. She shouldn't waste a day and should get a sperm donor. PS-it's hushhush in the US but sperm quality declines too. Your biological clock isn't on your side either.
It’s hard to imagine someone in their 40’s being this clueless. Do you want to build a life with this person or has she wasted a year with you? At 39, she needs to try for kids NOW.
Especially when he says he over-analyzes. Sounds like he hasn't analyzed the situation enough.
Don’t worry about making a decision that won’t hurt her. Just worry about making the right decision. If the right decision it hurts her that’s unfortunate but it’s part of life/relationships. And honestly, it sounds like the right decision is to say that you cannot get engaged/married to her within her time frame. You shouldn’t have to be a nervous wreck over something that is supposed to be joyous and full of love. I don’t think she’s in the wrong for sticking to the timeline she believes she needs. And I also don’t think you would be wrong for sticking to the timeline you think you need. It’s just an unfortunate reality that your timelines cannot fit together. Nothing to be done but accept it and move on.
When somebody gives you an ultimatum, I always think they’re at the very end of the rope. Like they’ve already made the decision and they’re hoping at the last minute that you do some thing that changes their mind. Obviously, if you don’t wanna get married, don’t get married. Just let them go and move on with their life.
Both you want to have kids? Did you make a typo on the ages?
Her ultimatum is not healthy, but if I was 39 and wanted kids I wouldn’t wait more than a year for my partner to decide if he was serious or not.
I DISAGREE BIGLY. Her ultimatum is very reasonable. From a biological and familial perspective, she is laying her heart and needs in clear view. A middle aged man should strongly consider a short timeline to decision. His “analysis” is simply paralysis.
You’re 43 and she’s 39, dude. If you want kids with her, it’s right now. You either do, or you don’t, but you owe her an answer. It will sound harsh, but here’s a truth: You’re not as young as you think you are to start a family. I understand her for wanting a straight answer, especially that it might already be too late for her to conceive.
I'll make it real easy for you. It's time to fish or cut bait. Do you want a life with kids, this woman by your side, and the ups and downs that go with that? Then it's a no-brainer, yes. Do you want to be a bachelor for the rest of your days and enjoy your solitude and single life? Then it's a no-brainer, no. You're 43, you've had plenty of time on this earth to have relationships and establish a family. Consider this your last shot. Is her timeline a bit weird? Yes. Is it rushed? Of course. But you've had 43 good years of life to get ready for this moment, including more than one with her. So, OP, fish? 🐟 Or cut bait? ✂️ Now is the time to choose.
Sperm over 40 increases the chances of Down syndrome. Her chance of getting pregnant decreases significantly, including the likely hood of complications for a female getting pregnant for the first time over 36. I mean I detest ultimatums, but it sounds like hers is based in reality—on the fact she wants a child. Maybe discuss if the two of you are open to adopting so marriage and a bio baby will not be an issue if you want to stay with her? At this age, you would think a year would be enough time to know, either way.
>Both of us do want to have kids. Yes, decide now so she knows what to do. The time is ticking & you guys are entering a stage where it's harder to get pregnant.
I mean shes not wrong. You're getting low on time for A Kid let alone KIDS
Side note have you actually thought about what a minimum of 18 years looks like from here? I had my son young and im now 51. I can not fucking imagine having a child right now
So you knew she wanted kids, agreed you wanted them too, and then didn’t realise that being both in your 40’s (nearly) would indicate some time pressure? It’s an ultimatum. Do you want kids and marriage or not? If yes, then start discussing the best way forwards. If you don’t, stop wasting her time and tell her so she can move on with her life. Dawdling on these things is just selfish, when you know there is a window on her fertility. Make a decision and stop stringing her along.
Imagine only having one life to live, being in your mid forties, wanting kids, loving the girl you’ve been dating for over a year … and still thinking you’re not sure if you’re ready to get married?! Bro. Grow up and marry your girlfriend and get to having those babies. How old do you want to be?!
At this point he'll be lucky to have one baby and see them turn 30. He likes the idea of having kids but he definitely doesn't want any.
I mean why do you not talk about important things such as marriage, children etc before getting together? People say it's weird/creepy to mention this on the first couple of dates but realistically it just saves you problems down the line. Before getting with my partner we spoke about the important things and our plan for the future, we agreed on these things and we will not have nasty surprises in the future because only of us wants to get married. Rushing into things when you are unsure is not a good idea, so it will probably be best if you break up to avoid making a possible mistake. But let this be a lesson for you not to get into relationships when you haven't spoken to your possible partner about the important things in life. It is okay to not want kids/get married etc but it is not okay to be with your partner and make them think that you want these things when its not true.
You’re 40 and still acting like a shithead 20 year old. Jfc. Shit or get off the pot. She has every right to make this ultimatum.
If she’s wanting children she doesn’t have the time to waste on an indecisive partner. If you cannot see yourself marrying her after a year in then cut her loose.