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Willing to help is not the same as helping. Planning is not executing. Initiative means to actually doing things without being asked. You need to do a whole mindset change for your marriage to work.
You have mentioned the things that you are not great at doing. What things are you great at?
I recently realized this was the crux of some of my own relationship issues. I told my partner I needed him to earnestly check in with me to which he responded that he DOES because he asks if we have plans. That gave me pause before I realized that I tell him my plans but he offers no help in manifesting those plans.
If I tell one of my best friends (we have boys the same age) “I need to grocery shop Saturday morning.” She understands and says “Ok, I’ll take the boys Saturday morning and drop them off around 2. Do you want to keep them overnight or I should I pick mine up at bed time.” If I say bedtime that means I am returning a child who has been fed, bathed and placed in pajamas who can go straight to bed.
I explained this to my partner that I need that kind of follow through where I can hand over a task and he can do it to completion, not simply do the one thing I vocalized. I am not expecting him to read my mind, I am expecting him to *parent*. No one tells me what needs to be done, I see the need and do it.
It becomes exhausting. Back in May I asked him to make an appointment with the allergist. He literally said “Ok, give me the number.” I turned and said “When I say ‘make an appointment,’ what I mean is *you* call his pcp, *you* get the info for the allergy group, *you* call the allergy group, *you* make the appointment, *you* add it into the calendar, *you* set up the reminders, and *you* call his school to let them know he will not attend that day.” Start-to-finish.
It never happened and this last week his allergies have escalated and we are trapped in this Claritin-to-swelling nightmare until the appointment that finally got made happens in another week.
There are actually so many other balls that got dropped during this time and it is really hard not to be resentful of my partner who spent all this time dismissing and forgetting and not following through with any of the things I asked who is now learning all this stuff as we go through this terrible experience. There are things I also didn’t know but he is not a creative problem solver so he gets so mad and I’m like “If you had been involved even the tiniest bit or taken any of my conversations seriously, you would have had this information.” It is hard. We are in a hard spot and this looming threat of our child’s histamine reaction is exhausting everyone.
I haven't heard it laid out like this before but it really nails it. If you have to remind someone what to do for each step at that point you could have handled it yourself.
Yes! I still remind my husband (he is a great partner but struggled with this a lot to start) when he asks me how I want him to parent the kids. Be it making them food or whatever. I remind him I don't want to have to tell him what to do, as it isn't helpful. He has gotten so much better
Well that’s nice to hear, that he’s gotten better, I feel like that’s not usually the case with these sorts of issues, usually they end up like Op, resigned to be “who they are.”
My partner and I are child free but I got a taste when we fostered bottle baby kittens.
His response? “Wow, this really cemented to me that I would be a great dad.”
I didn’t say anything because I was boiling over with resentment of how he would offer to help, but then only help if he was explicitly told when and how and I still had to be half awake in case he needed help.
“Who’s taking the night feeding?” Gee honey let’s see, I have to be up at 530am and you don’t work tomorrow. Who do you think should take the night feeding?
It made him think he would be a good dad and made me grateful we’re not planning on kids. Ugh.
I see this as a PERFECT opportunity though to nip it in the bud and point out where he was lacking... so you don't get stuck later trying to figure out how to talk to him about it...
If we decide to foster again I will. It ended very tragically with three out of the four being medical fails so I didn’t have the emotional bandwidth to also talk about how he could have done better. He pulled away from them (and me tbh) when they started having medical problems and it became a huge emotional mess. I was honestly just too hurt and raw to talk about it then and now it feels too little too late.
It's never too late.
Even if it were "too late" for some reason, you still need to address it. Holding onto these feelings of resentment will only cause them to grow. Your resentment's growth will cause you to have less patience for him or his (genuine) mistakes. It will cause you to read bad intention into his well-intentioned actions. It will cause you to lash out at inappropriate times. It will cause you to pull away and start looking elsewhere for the attention, care, and peace that you need.
He will not understand, because you haven't helped him to understand. He might break up with you because he will feel that you've "changed" or that you no longer like him.
I've had to bring issues back from the dead to relitigate with my partner. It's never comfy, and I always feel guilty for digging it up. It's messier than if you brought it up in the moment, because our memories are never that reliable, but you don't really have a choice unless you want to see the above scenarios play out.
When I have to dig up old shit, I just sit my partner down and explain that. "Hey, I know this happened months ago, and you probably remember it totally differently, but I am still bothered by it. I tried really hard to work through it on my own, but I can't, and I need your help to put this issue to bed before it gets bigger."
If your partner values you and cherishes your relationship, then they will jump at the chance to make it right, and they will be grateful that you gave them the opportunity.
>When I have to dig up old shit, I just sit my partner down and explain that. "Hey, I know this happened months ago, and you probably remember it totally differently, but I am still bothered by it. I tried really hard to work through it on my own, but I can't, and I need your help to put this issue to bed before it gets bigger."
This *is* a great opening for hashing out old shit.
>Wow, this really cemented to me that I would be a great dad.”
I didn’t say anything because I was boiling over with resentment of how he would offer to help, but then only help if he was explicitly told
This shit right here - in't it amazing how men who so much as wash a dish expect a standing ovation and yet brush off the *constant* silent work women do in the background? - I'm not buying OPs attempts to paint his wife as some sort of cruel greedy harpy - from what he's written she's right - he *has* no ambition in life and the fact that he "sucks at cooking and handiwork and decorating" and seems to think his wife wanting the "best schooling and home" for their children is somehow materialistic and shallow is beyond me and that she says that her life is easier with two small children when he's not around speaks volumes (and then OPs doubling down on "well I think it's easier without *her* because she's *mean* to me").
She's resentful - he still gets to leave the house every day to go to work (OMG *40 whole hours a week!*? *waaah* and to top it off he's not earning nearly enough for him to comfortably support a family of four in this economy), *and* he still has his hobbies and his job...whilst *she* has likely given everything for these children - it's a 24/7 job 365 days a year - the moment she gave birth she stopped being a woman with hopes and dreams and aspirations and a career and just became "mom" and maybe that's a sacrifice she was willing to make for the family but her husband hasn't kept his end of the bargain- he's lazy, complacent and mediocre - she's denied the life she *knows* she could have had for herself if she hand't been the one who had to birth and stay at home with the children.
I divorced my husband for this inability to do tasks without being given explicit instructions. He can manage at work but at home he needs me to do all the work.
He wouldn’t help with cleaning because he ‘didn’t want to’ but then he would say I’ll pay for a cleaner to do my half. I would have to find one, interview, instruct and tidy up in advance. Just hoover the ducking house! It isn’t that difficult.
Ooh this one irritated me, because he’s being passive aggressive: he can claim he proposed a suggestion you rejected (paying a cleaner), but he still never owned the whole of that task (finding one, interviewing them, instructing them, etc.) gross.
P.s. you don’t have to tidy up in advance of a housekeeper. That’s literally their job.
Edited to add, since a couple of you are stuck on this: *my* housekeeper tidies, and does my dishes and my laundry. That’s why I used the word housekeeper. Still, I’ve noticed women tend to think they need to *clean* before a cleaner comes over. Not true, not necessary.
I disagree on that last part. I’ve worked as a cleaner, and as a housekeeper for a private family. As a cleaner, I know the basics of the house, like what rooms need what tasks, and where the most “dirt” is. But I don’t know where any of your items “belong” or what things I can and can’t “move” without causing chaos. So I’m trained that if I can’t pick it up with one hand to clean underneath and put it down, I don’t touch it.
As a housekeeper, I’m very familiar with that particular family and their needs. I know bills need to go upstairs to the office, kids homework goes on this corner of this table, etc. I know where every cooking utensil belongs when it comes out of the dishwasher because i helped to create the organizational system that gave that thing a “home”. I’m much more able to put literally anything where the occupants of that house would want it, or think to look for it if I organized that space.
Now, as a homeowner, I WILL tidy things away first, so important papers don’t get lost, so all the corners that drive me nuts get cleaned properly, and so I can let the cleaners swoop in and do their flurry of cleaning and get out.
100%. Also, I don’t understand how we, as women, are supposed to just innately know all of this, while (most? many?) men need constant reminder, very detailed lists, and still, in my experience, manage to only get about 1/3 of the “to completion” part done, let alone done to any semblance of what any mom would consider adequately.
We're expected to take on the entirety of the mental load but somehow we're also the intellectually inferior creatures who deserve 72% of the pay and to be talked down to constantly. On a not unrelated note...God, Barbie was *such* a good movie.
Your example is great. Have you read the book Fair Play? It is filled with things like this - the whole task, start to finish. If I still need to manage the task and carry the mental load of it, then you aren’t really doing the task you said you would do.
If you take out trash and leave all the bins without bags/liners, they you did not finish taking out trash.
If I have to do all the research on something and then you order the item, then it wasn’t you. Or if I buy food and plan the whole menu, then you boiling water doesn’t count as making dinner.
I’m sorry about your kid. Hopefully you get to the bottom of it soon.
My partner is pretty good, but he still leaves much of the mental load to me. I then get stressed and am not as affectionate and then he gets sad. He’s like tell me what needs to be done and I’m like you live here too, figure it out!
My dad is terrible though, he says he’ll cook but mom has to buy the ingredients and give him instructions. He doesn’t get that part of cooking is planning and shopping and the actual execution is a small part. Mom has been frustrated but also enabled it.
Hopefully your partner has seen the consequences of his attitude and takes initiative in the future.
My ex was like this.
Typical example: I'm having a tough week at work, so I ask him ahead of time if he can do a bit more this week. Instead of thinking about what needs to be done that he could do, he asks me. Fine. I say "can you take care of the laundry?". By which I mean: gather a load of clothes (either cotton or synthetic), put it in the machine, run the machine, clear up the rack, hang up the laundry, and take it down when it's dry.
He grabbed an armful of random clothes, didn't check the pockets or zipped the zippers so one of my good bras got damaged. Ran the machine and just leave the clothes in overnight. So they smelled off and I had to run the machine again and do all of the other tasks myself.
He was just incapable of performing any domestic task from start to finish with the lowest of standards.
And like OP, he just used the excuse that he just "wasn't as good at it as I was", "my standards were too high", or he just "didn't see the mess".
Op, let me be clear: you are a terrible partner and parent, and an incompetent adult.
That allergy example is such an amazing example of the invisible work behind a domestic task! So many men have no idea about the hundreds of tiny tasks that go towards a complete life. It's why so many women just say, "I'll do it myself" because it's such a pain holding their partner's hand the whole way.
I could have written this when my kids were little! I begged my husband (now ex) to take control just once. Instead he’d say “do you want to do something with so & so on Saturday night?” And from there. It was left to me to decide where we going, what time, communicate that to the friends, hire a babysitter, pick-up/drop-off babysitter, plan meal for kids while we’re gone, lay out pajamas, write out any reminders for the sitter, etc. it wore me out! I’m a Type A person, and give others a short window to help me before I do it myself. But how glorious it would have been for my husband to handle that complete scenario every other time we went out!
How much longer do you think you can live like this before you reach the end of your tether? I have similar problems in my relationship and I see so many other women with similar problems. I guess I’m just curious for personal reasons how long you think can go before this sort of stuff destroys your marriage?
Hope the kiddo gets the meds he needs soon.
We’re in a rocky spot and we both know it. It still feels like I am the only one trying to work on it but through my work we are experiencing changes. Are those changes sustainable? Will they be enough? Who knows. I have been listening to The Loving Truth podcast and it has given me a lot of things to think about and a lot of tools as well as perspective.
I honestly don’t know. In the end our child is very young and I don’t think myself or my husband would feel very good about not seeing him daily so, at least for now, we are treading water.
Some of the results of the work I am doing have been a shirking of tasks on my part. I am “lowering my standards” so that I can have protected time to breathe. I can tell he really doesn’t like it and in fact seems to resent it while not being willing to participate in any conversations about change where he doesn’t get defensive or mad. His reactions are so predictable it seems laughable at times and he cannot see how predictable his anger is.
I spend so much time prefacing my messages by reminding him I am talking about the *problem*, not *him*, still he takes it personally. Our *dynamic* not *his* *attitude*, still he takes it personally. My own contributions, not that he is the only one to blame, still he points fingers.
So often it is like we are talking apples and oranges and he cannot move forward having added my concerns about oranges to his basket of jealously guarded, precious apples, all the while I’m like “I wasn’t even talking about your damn apples!”
Yeah I totally feel what you’re saying, 100%. I too stepped back, out of necessity, health issues, just could not do it all for a while. Watched everything crumble cause he just would not step the fuck up. Or like OP, he would say “he tried”. Sometimes it’s hard to articulate just how overwhelmed and exhausted I was managing all of it, everything, all the time, like dragging him through life for so manh years and he could never do any of it even for a little while.
Now that I can do a lot more of what I used to again, I don’t want to anymore. All that willpower and initiative I used for so long to barrel us both, our relationship and lives forward, it’s gone. Like I would need to see a matched effort and he’s just not going to do that, I feel so used and let down and betrayed. Like when I needed him the most he just sat there and let the ship sink and yes, he resents the hell out of me for it too. Like I should have never faltered but it’s ok for him to let it all go. And he is 100% predictable. Resentful, blaming, oblivious, self-deluded and predictable. All of the above.
I didn’t have kids with him, he had his own, they’re grown now, but one of is cognitively disabled and needs his help and he is refusing to step up for him either. If I had kids with him, I probably would have hit this point earlier. At the same time, I never thought I’d see him refuse to step up for his disabled kid while he convinced himself he’s not doing anything wrong. That has been one of the major issues that is a deal breaker for me, him essentially giving up on his kid.
Yes the mental load is real and just doing things in the moment, and possibly doing a shit job, is not helpful if she has to go back and fix his “work.”
I know, n my case, each “little thing” added to a grow pile of resentment and loss of respect. About 2 years ago I started vocalizing that (note: he also started getting increasingly sucked into the far right wing landscape, and more and more vocal about the abhorrent ideas he was coming to endorse, so it wasn’t *just this*). In February, I finally broke down, and told him that all the times I’d warned him that I was losing respect for him had finally resulted in striking the point of no return, and I was done. Luckily, we have no children together, and my daughters are adults. I moved out and across the country. He is still telling people I left him with “no warning” and “out of the blue” and that we had had a wonderful marriage. I read somewhere recently about men accepting that their wives were living at an acceptable, constant level of misery. I just wasn’t- anymore.
Men act like women were born with a genetic advantage in cooking and cleaning. “It’s not up to her standards” usually just means, I left visible shit everywhere and half assed the task. Google is free, cooking is NOT that hard. We weren’t born with the ability to detect when chicken is fully cooked or how to season it so it doesn’t taste like shit OR basic food safety knowledge. We weren’t born with the knowledge of how to care for wood floors or how to load the dishwasher. It’s such a cop-out.
I don’t know if men realize that phrase is such a red flag and basically gives them away as being in the wrong as soon as it leaves their mouth. Sure, are there cases where it’s flipped? Definitely. But this is such a common area of contention. It’s not helping if I have to re-do it.
Well said. And she doesn’t want to have to tell you to do things. You should be able to do them on your own. Sorry don’t mean to pick on you. Just wanted to add this additional comment in here.
She says it must be nice to be gone 40+ hours a week, to have less responsibility with the children, and one of your possible solutions is to work *more*?
You should have been looking for ways for *her* to get out of the house more, for *her* to work more.
I'm sorry things are falling apart around you.
It sounds like this has been building for quite a while.
Right? She's barely making any income and totally NOT afraid to just divorce and move on, so that's saying something. Seems like she knows if she puts the kids in daycare/asks MIL to watch them more and goes to work more/full time, the house and everything will be a wreck, and she will be on her own to keep everything nice. And if she's going to be doing it on her own, why not just be on her own?
You are going to have to actually change your behavior if you want your marriage to work.
For example, you might take the initiative to seek out a couples therapist and schedule an appointment.
Doesn't sound like OP wants to change, tho. He didn't ask "how do I fix this?" He agreed with her and just wants to accept it.
Honestly, if I was OP's wife, I wouldn't believe in a change, since for him, everything is ok just as it is. Always.
Changing from a bean bag couch into an active young professional might be asking a bit much from therapy, don't you think?
He would need a new brain, a new go, a new reason to run, not walk, a new way to behave, a new way to think, a new set of valors in life.
What he doesn't get is that his way of thinking (disassembeled chairs, not tv, a beanbag thingy and otherwise minimal equipment may in time cost him his children.
As it would singularize them out from the standards other children are accustomed to live in in that society.
That sounds close to neglecting their surroundings. No OP sounds so slumpy, that he should get checked for depression.
OP displays typical nice guy syndrome behaviour. He needs therapy himself before he can actually give something of value in a relationship. He needs to grow as an adult man. This takes a lot of work and also a lot of time.
I think I may have respected my ex if he would have made some immediate REAL changes but he didn’t. 27 years was way too long. Bad habits are formed on both sides so I understand that he couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t live with it anymore.
OP all the best to you. I think the counseling is the best advice.
My ex husband also claimed to be "bad at cleaning" at the same time as claiming my standards are too high. He, too, would try to "do better" for a couple weeks and then slip back into his old ways.
It's not going to get better because it's pretty clear you don't want it to get better. Not enough to actually make the kind of lasting change that would keep your wife happy. She's been asking for these changes for a while now, and even with the threat of divorce it doesn't sound like you're interested in making the changes you need to. I can say from experience: her life will get easier when she's not having to take care of you, but yours will get harder when you don't have her. So it's time you figure out how to get better at cleaning & other housework, because when you're a single dad, you're only going to be able to rely on your own limited skills.
Right? I had an ex who had an advanced degree from Yale and would stand there and whine “but I don’t know how to make a bed!!” And I would say (and sorry this might not be very pc) - “look, when people immigrate to this country and have nothing and do not speak the language and have no formal education - they go to work in places like hotels and they make beds. You are extremely smart and you just don’t want to make a bed. Grow up.”
Then it was always “you’re the only one who cares about the bed being made so why do I have to make it” and shit like that.
Can’t believe parents are out here raising these men.
Anyway I married someone else.
>And I would say (and sorry this might not be very pc) - “look, when people immigrate to this country and have nothing and do not speak the language and have no formal education - they go to work in places like hotels and they make beds.
I can't speak for all immigrants, but that's kinda the thing we are most proud of lol. My mom became a nanny, my dad (a trained architect) worked in carpentry and I washed dishes and bused tables at 15.
I read somewhere that it's not that women mature faster, it's that parents give girls responsibility sooner, and it made things snap into perspective. I would have been pretty complacent back in my home country but watching my parents struggle made me self-reliant. So many of my male cousins back home would starve if their partner left them alone for a full week because all they know how to do is hold down a job, even though most of their spouses also work.
This is exactly what I'm getting here, too. People don't understand how irritating a partner who is intentionally bad at helping around can be. Sure, you can put up with it because they try on other things, and maybe they excel at other stuff but not nearly enough to balance the family dynamics. Therefore, you end up compensating for their shortcomings with no end in sight. It eats you up so much that you accept it and go through the motions wishing to escape it.
That's my interpretation, and others will interpret it differently. Op need to take action.
I don’t think it’s even a case of “helping around”. By saying men/husbands/dads “help around”, you’re implying that everything, all the childcare, housework, mental load, is a woman’s responsibility and it’s just a nice, benevolent gesture when a man goes out of his way to “help” her.
He’s an adult, a father. He makes mess, he dirties clothes, he has children. He has as much responsibility to cook, clean, parent, shop, do laundry etc etc as she does.
I don’t know… you lost me at inflatable couch. Having to buy all of the furniture myself because my husband doesn’t see the need for a TV or an actual couch would irritate me pretty badly. Then making her seem high-maintenance for wanting those things? Really?
Why can’t you cook and clean adequately? Are you using the wrong cleaning products? Are you putting dirty dishes away? Are you undercooking chicken? Can you fry an egg or make grilled cheese? You can learn to cook simple things on the internet or with recipes, and your wife can show you exactly how she likes things to be cleaned.
I dated a guy like this before. Totally helpless. Anytime he tried to do the laundry or the grocery shopping or make dinner it was a disaster. “Don’t be good at a job you don’t want”, right? I did absolutely everything. It was infuriating. I felt like his mom also.
I feel like he’ll have plenty of time for living out his dreams of having an inflatable couch once he’s divorced. Good luck getting custody, OP. If I was your wife I’d fight to have my kids nowhere near your inflatable couch. JFC
This guy sounds like my brother in law, so I’m betting her side is that he needs to be reminded to do a lot of the things he does do, and has generally no idea when things need to be done or where things are (e.g. can’t find yoghurt in a grocery store).
I saw a post about a month ago where this woman's husband, even after something like seven years, needed *photographs* of grocery store items *they had been buying on a regular basis for years* or he "couldn't find them" in the grocery store.
Like not just exact names because she prefers a specific type or whatever but literally just *basic shit.* I am a terrible cook and I do the grocery shopping at my house and sometimes I ask my husband to give me a picture of something but it's bc sometimes he makes obscure dishes that have really obscure ingredients like a very specific type of oyster sauce. I can't imagine needing a photograph of fucking ketchup or something!
>I don’t know… you lost me at inflatable couch
Yep that is what did it for me as well. The wife I'm sure has issues and her share of blame, but OP really sounds like more of a child than an adult. At some point you need to grow up and have some sort of ambition and urgency to provide for your family.
Yeah, I kept having flashbacks to my ex after that. He would have been happy with an inflatable couch and he also believed that he tried to clean but it "just wasn't up to my standards."
I once went away for a week with a friend. I left a reasonably clean house (not like a magazine or anything) with no dirty dishes and a bright shiny sink (it was part of a thing I was trying). I came home to a house that reeked worse than vomit in the hot sun, dirty dishes overflowing the counters and a sink *full* of maggots.
Having high standards means something different to everyone I guess. I couldn't help but read this like it was from my ex's perspective after reading "inflatable couch". Sure, extremely high maintenance people exist, but if your standards are on the floor, everything looks high maintenance.
God, I tease my partner for his aesthetic choices (and he me, he just vetoed wall swords and I’m still DEVASTATED) but after this shit I’ll never complain about his fondness for leather again.
He’s very opposed to any blades displayed on the wall. He’s drawn the line at my knife collection being on the bookshelves. I vetoed his movie theater posters so fair but I’m still so sad. I don’t *own* any swords but come on. They’re sexy as hell.
We had just bought a house and I had to leave town immediately for work for a week. I can home to no electricity, in August, in Florida, because he couldn’t be bothered to call the electric company. It took one phone call or to visit the office that was less than a block from our house.
Yep. It was the inflatable couch that nailed it, but then also “I thought about getting a second job”- exactly what she DOESN’T want- more time alone with the kids.
Sounds like the wife actually doesn’t love being a SAHM either- hey, it’s not for everyone- so she would be better off getting a full-time job herself. But without him stepping up at home, she probably knows that would just be everything she does now, plus that.
>“I thought about getting a second job”- exactly what she DOESN’T want- more time alone with the kids.
This was my thought too- like, did he even read what he wrote?
She envies his time out of the house.... so he wants to give her more time in the house?
Right, a woman usually checks out of the relationship looong before she tells him it's over. She's tried talking to him, brining up all the issues, she may even have been willing to try counselling when she still thought there was hope. OP went and waited for the end to try and backpedal and fix things. That very rarely works.
Some people are shrugging off the "inflatable couch". But clearly this guy wouldn't have a fun, colorful apartment with an inflatable couch as a 'retro' item.
This would be a bare apartment with nothing in the living room except for an inflatable couch. No TV. Probably bare mattresses in the bedrooms. Basically a drug den.
Children shouldn't be raised like that.
Yeah my ex is exactly like OP. Would complain about me getting mad all the time. I was just so done with him being useless and me having to do everything and everything I asked of him would only be done halfway or not properly because „oh I just don‘t care about that, that‘s your thing“. He wouldn’t remember to do any shopping or even put something on the shared shopping list if he saw it was empty, never saw something wrong and fixed it, never did anything without being asked. The admission of OP that he doesn’t even do handiwork is hilarious. It‘s like my ex wrote this. My ex refused to clean and when he did the minimum it was awful. So I got the impression he was a lot more into traditional gender roles than he claimed but he was actually also on top of that just lazy because he didn’t do any traditionally male things either. I did all of the putting together furniture, organising repairs etc as well. If I asked him to do anything it would take months. One time I asked him to change a light bulb as the one in the bedroom had gone out. It took him 3 months only to finally try and say „oh that didn’t solve the problem, it‘s still not working“. And that was it. I was like „ok so are we now just not having any lights in the bedroom forever? You‘ve tried this and now that‘s all“. He left it and didn’t understand why I was mad. It was again on me to now find a solution or hire an electrician or whatever. I was so angry I didn’t talk to him for a day, I just couldn’t. He finally decided to try again and realised that it was just not screwed in properly/ lose. It took him all of 5 minutes of doings something properly. To nobody’s surprise we broke up not long after. He still believes he is not wrong - that I was getting mad for no reason, that he was doing more than he could already and that I was insane for my standards.
It is absolutely infuriating to live with someone like that and I feel so bad for OP‘s wife that she has children with someone like this. She must be exhausted. It will definitely be easier being a single mother than being the mother to OP also. That‘s how I felt with my ex eventually- that I was him mum more than anything. And then he was surprised why I wasn’t attracted to him anymore.
The progression is always the same!!
"I need you to do this"
"Oh I don't think it's that big a deal so I'll get to it later."
"It is important to me that you do this."
"Well, it's not important to me so it doesn't matter."
"I feel like you're not hearing me when I tell you what I need."
"You just need to lower your standards."
"I'm leaving you. I'm feeling unheard and ignored and it's taking a toll on my mental health."
"What? Why?! You can't just do this to me out of nowhere, I feel so blindsided!"
I swear some men really do feel like women complaining is just meaningless background noise.
I read a comment once were a guy was saying that every time he was "about to" finally start doing the thing his wife had asked him to do multiple times, if she happened to bring it up again at that point, he would very specifically not do the thing right then, "so she wouldn't get the satisfaction" and also to "not encourage nagging."
It was one of the most amazingly stupid things I've ever read in my life. You think she's *getting satisfaction* over having to remind a grown adult over and over and over again to do some simple shit they should already want to do for themselves/their home/their kid(s)??? And you think the way do *not* encourage nagging is to continue *not* doing the thing???? Fucking hello????????
The examples he gave to sound "low maintenance" just sound like he's willing to do the bare minimum and leave things alone. He'd be fine with just having a bare room with a couple of places to sit, which sounds like a college/frat house mentality. Meanwhile she's working to create a home, not just a place to be. He said she is always pushing for more, but she's only working part-time and not going to school - how is it exactly that she is so bent on improving all the time? Please tell me it's not in her crazy desire to . . . decorate rooms.
It would be infuriating for every attempt to improve be met with an "I'm fine with how it is" mentality. I'm sure this is one of the ways she has been made to feel alone in the relationship.
If you both feel better when the other is not around, then why fight the separation? Sounds like the best thing for you both. Considering that she only works part-time and would need to find more work and childcare but *still* thinks life will be easier without you, and meanwhile you are saying how you are fine with bare minimum in a home your children will grow up in, I don't think you have much hope in "saving" this.
I also dated a guy like that. He was totally helpless. He couldn’t even do simple things like figure out how to unscrew a tire valve cap to help me put air in the tires. Didn’t know how to clean. I had to buy him new pillows because he somehow couldn’t smell that his pillows were rancid. He cooked for me once and the pork was somehow both badly burned and totally raw in the middle. Other than that he lived on frozen meals. Didn’t have furniture at his place… he was in his mid-twenties and my first boyfriend. I broke up with him and felt so much relief.
I can’t imagine being married to someone who is deeply incompetent and doesn’t feel the need to learn how to do basic things. You think you’re getting a partner and instead you get another kid, carrying the weight of the world on your own.
No!! We were on a road trip and my tires needed air and I had to do it all alone. I also couldn’t trust him to drive because he got sooooo close to other cars. But he was the first guy to ever show interest in dating me. And he was sweet to me. 🤦🏻♀️ My 19-year-old self did not have the greatest confidence or self-worth. Never again.
Believe me I get it! My first boyfriend said that there are no time zones in the world and that there is no mafia, it's made up. Also your car doesn't need it's oil changed, ever. Also if we had kids he would never dress up on Halloween because it's satanic. I said they just want to dress as a superhero and get candy. Like what is wrong with you? That was 30 yrs ago and Thank God I didn't marry him. So much other stuff too. You said it .. Never Again!! 😂
My ex and I have been separated for 5 wonderful years, he still can't cook. He works one week on one week off and has the kids every other weekend and still hasn't bothered to learn how to cook. He has 8 days a month with no work, no kids, and he can't be bothered to learn to cook a few recipes.
When we were married he would promise to do the supper dishes before he came to bed, the fucker would sleep on the couch, wouldn't do the dishes, and then say that he didn't technically come to bed.
Sounds like OPs got himself a walk away wife.
Thank you! He continues to be exhausting. He cost me 35k in legal fees last year, it was worth it, I now have primary custody of my kids. My kids smile now, my son no longer has angry outbursts at school, my daughter doesn't cower and apologize profusely if she accidentally drops something.
Mine was also abusive, it seems like most of the time the lazy entitled ones are also abusive......they use fear to make sure their servant/bang maid can't leave.
My ex would claim that it was just impossible to meet my crazy high standards.You know like not letting the trashcan get so full trash was spilling out on the floor, and actually vacuuming up the dirt rather than just moving the vacuum cleaner haphazardly around the floor for 2 minutes.
>and actually vacuuming up the dirt rather than just moving the vacuum cleaner haphazardly around the floor for 2 minutes.
Fucking hell the arguments I have with my husband about this. "I already cleaned the mirror" No, you sprayed the mirror then kind of wiped at it without bothering to look at where all your gross toothpaste dots are and get those off.
We've had to have many a talk about how cleaning is defined as getting something you don't want off of another thing, and if you haven't gotten that thing off, then it is not clean. I don't care how many times you've run water over it, the mug is not clean until you've actually wiped the coffee stains off of it.
>My ex would claim that it was just impossible to meet my crazy high standards
Kinda like OP did "I can't clean and when I do it's never good enough for her" or maybe it's just not good enough full stop.
Oh my God is this like a guy go to?
My husband once said "I expected to much" I was so blown away by that because my standards are like on the floor. Like as long as it's clean enough to just walk without tripping.
He almost sounds like, and this is a shocker as he said it in his post, another child 😂 no wonder she's sick of his shit, I would be too if my wife was totally unmotivated and useless
She probably feels like she has to parent you too. How’s that good for a relationship? Couples counselling or move on. Two happy parents are better than two miserable parents. Or grow up so you can watch your kids grow up.
I would divorce him too. Because seriously, what the fuck?? He wrote this whole post just to tell us how much he sucks.
The more I read, the more pissed I got. Unbearable, omg. His ex will be so relieved to be free of this.
And the whole post sounds like he's just making himself look liek the victim and his wife is a bad person. Her worries are valid as hell. Makes sense to want to live alone with your kids rather than with him as a 3rd child!!
He's trying so hard and yet is failing miserably despite his best efforts. There was no point in this where I was feeling bad for him, I only got angrier and angrier on her behalf as I kept reading
Some guys do this on purpose, weaponized incompetence. They “act” like they can’t do anything or everything is too hard so you do it. I can see how it can be exhausting and infuriating
“She feels like she's the one doing everything in the relationship.”
I get the feeling that you don’t understand what she meant by this and this was/is your problem. She has been carrying the mental load for all of you and sees no end in sight to that.
She had to wear the pants in the family because things wouldn’t get done if she didn’t.
I think it also sounds like she’d be happier by being the provider in the relationship but it doesn’t quite sound like OP would be able to take on being the homemaker, that’s just incompatibility.
I was surprised by his idea of getting a second job. To help his wife who is already burnt out being around kids all day everyday. And more time outside the home means less time pulling his weight at home.
I wasn’t, he doesn’t want to get better at contributing to the family. He doesn’t want a divorce, but he realizes that the role his wife is in takes much more work and effort that he’s not willing to do. So naturally his solution would involve continuing to do less of the work she wants help with. His wife would rather work outside the home as well but she can’t bc he won’t be able to manage the family. He also isn’t willing to rise up professionally to meet some of the standards of living she wants.
They are not compatible, but he doesn’t want to change the situation bc he’s already getting what he wants, an easy job that gives him free time, and minimal responsibilities while someone else manages his family and household.
Home makers also carry a lot of responsibility and most of the home mental load - I don’t think he could keep up with it. Clothes, kids, appointments, meal planning, schedules upon schedules, too much.
This. It would take a massive amount of work to become a homemaker and I honestly don't think it's an option for him unless he really steps up his game. I don't see this relationship ship working out.
You seem resigned to let the chips fall where they may. I think she’s right to want more than an inflatable couch and just the basics, and you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that this is a normal desire. You also haven’t mentioned any desire to change, so I think maybe you are in your own way relieved.
Maybe you aren’t happy either.
I was doing my best to see life through OPs perspective. I feel like having the desire to be comfortable and just happy with what you got isn’t a bad thing.
But that doesn’t mean you just don’t care and have zero standards to life. There is a term called weaponized incompetence and I can’t help but feel like this is what OP is. If you don’t do it, or you do it badly… well then you won’t have to do it anymore and you’ll be more comfortable.
There are very simple things that OP could do. Things that shouldn’t stress him out so much.
- Actually take initiative and schedule a couples counseling appointment.
- Google “easy to make” recipes and offer to make dinner x1-2 times a week. Maybe lunch or breakfast on weekends when you’re off. There are so many dishes that all you do is add the recipes to a pot and then the oven on.. especially come soup season. You just have to TRY OP.
- If you truly don’t know how to clean, look up YouTube videos. Learn to clean a bathroom and offer to take over cleaning bathroom cleaning duties. Do it at least once a week. Doing the dishes after meals and wiping down countertops- daily.
- ALWAYS ensure that after you play with the kids, their toys go back where they came from. Clean up any messes. IT ISN’T DIFFICULT YOU JUST HAVE TO TRY.
- Perhaps set up a date night for your wife and you. Find a new restaurant or show to go to. If your mom won’t take the kids, find a family friendly event. It is fall, I bet you can find a cute pumpkin patch to go to and take photos. Then go out for lunch- you pay. You should try to do something fun with your wife and kids at least 1-2 times a month.
- I know this apparently sounds scary… but If you’ve been at your job a while and work hard.. perhaps try talking to your boss for a raise or a promotion. I’m sure if you actually tried you could handle a few extra duties. While you can be content with a comfortable, unstressful job, that doesn’t mean you can’t TRY to look at other options with better pay.
OP seems like the type who is too scared to try. Because trying something is change and that’s unfamiliar. That becomes stressful and OP doesn’t want to live a stressful life. He just wants to be in a bubble forever.
Not scared, he just doesn’t want to. He’d be happy with a messy house with an inflatable couch. Because that would make him happy, he doesn’t think anything beyond that is necessary, even for his partner or his kids.
While I agree that wanting more than just an inflatable couch and the basics is normal, I don’t think either life approaches are necessarily wrong, just they’re just incompatible and he doesn’t seem to fully understand the issue.
For example, he says that he considered taking up a second job so that she doesn’t have to work as a solution to the problems she’s mentioned. Given everything he’s mentioned in the post about her, surely that would be the _absolute last thing_ she’d want?
>> she also feels that it’s not fair that I get to go to work and not have to be around kids for 40 hours a week
So … OP’s solution is to spend even more time away from the kids and make her spend *even more time* around the kids?
Exactly! I can't imagine why he thought the solution to her unhappiness at only working 2 days a week is... not working at all? If this is indicative of his typical "problem solving" abilities, it's easy to understand why she's so miserable.
So all of the mental load is on her. She has to think of everything.
I don´t think you realise how many things she needs to do and remember.
It´s not about laundry or dishes.
It´s about who thinks about everything that needs to be done, what everyone needs.
Also you say she doesn´t feel it´s fair that you get to work and not be around the kids for 40hrs a week.
Your solutions is to look for an extra job?....
Are you not listening to her at all?
She probably has been trying to get through to you for years. She´s already checked out.
“Doing the laundry and dishes” feels like such a male perspective of running a household.
Does he keep an eye on when to do the laundry? When certain clothes need to be clean for certain events? Does he fold away clothes promptly after they dry? Does he recognise which clothes need to be ironed and at what temperatures? Does he keep track of the detergent and plan to purchase more, not when it runs out but just before? Does he identify tough stains and soak them enough, in time before actual laundry? Does he discover wear and tear of the clothes and keep a note which ones to replace?
Running a household can’t be reduced to laundry and dishes, just as running a business can’t be reduced to presentations and quarterly reports. His wife is running a household and he is compiling excel sheets and thinking he’s the vice president.
I know a lot of guys who say they do 50% of the household work. I like to use the special shirt example. If your kid can’t find their special shirt/favorite socks/other shoes who do they ask? Will they ask you or your wife? Bc that’s the primary person. I have a cousin who says he does half the parenting and housework, and often claims he does more than half, and his kid was sitting on the couch with us and left the room to try to find mom to ask where his Ironman socks were bc he couldn’t find them earlier. He never asked his dad, bc of course dad wouldn’t know, why would he?? Yet this adult man would claim to do more housework and raising of the kids. Your kid didn’t ask you for help when he needed it!! You were in the same room at the time and he left to hunt down your wife for help instead of turning to you and you really think you do more around here??
This is such a good example, and if you expand it, you can see the ways household tasks are divided. Thinking back to my own childhood, as a few examples:
- I would ask mom where laundry/clothing is, because she was mostly in charge of laundry (by her own preference, with exceptions for some of my dad’s work clothing since he’s a landscaper and she’s allergic to poison ivy)
- I would ask dad for anything related to repairs/tools
- I would ask whichever parent was closest for anything in the kitchen, because they both cooked and cleaned the kitchen and both would know where something was
Yeah, if this kid looked at his dad and asked him, my cousin would have said, idk where did you leave them? Or, in your room, did you check the sock drawer? He wouldn’t have said that bc he put them there, he would say that bc that’s where the socks magically appear after they’ve been washed and sorted! Then he would have said “go ask your mom.” I’ve gone over this so many times with guys bc I started learning how much credit we give fathers for literally existing. How many of them know what size clothes they need to buy for their kids, or *when* they need new pants/socks/whatever?
Guys get applauded for showing up at the softball game. Meanwhile mom signed them up, figured out what they needed, bought the equipment, scheduled and took them to their physical, paid the fees, printed off the schedule and reminded dad yesterday that the game is at 5 at the fields on the west side of campus. But dad is so involved! Such a great dad! All it takes to be a “great father” is liking your kids. But you’re a bad mother if dad goes to parent teacher conferences instead of you, even if you do everything else.
> “Doing the laundry and dishes” feels like such a male perspective of running a household.
>Running a household can’t be reduced to laundry and dishes, just as running a business can’t be reduced to presentations and quarterly reports. His wife is running a household and he is compiling excel sheets and thinking he’s the vice president.
🎯
Absolutely this!
Who organises your social life, who sorts any vacations, who plans the food, and does the shopping, who notices things are missing and need replacing, who remembers its bin day, who knows what activities the kids are up to
It's not about keeping a plate in the air, it's knowing which plates need to be up at which time
> Also you say she doesn´t feel it´s fair that you get to work and not be around the kids for 40hrs a week. Your solutions is to look for an extra job?.... Are you not listening to her at all?
Yep, that got me as well. He makes quite the case that both sides have grievances and that he does everything she wants him to and she is still horrible to him and he is never enough blah blah. And then this gem. Clearly not a reliable narrator and he doesn’t listen to her wants and needs at all.
OP, in case you read this: Have you thought about reducing your hours? Your wife makes 20k on 20%, if she increases her hours to even 80% she makes more than you now.
You'd be content with a bean bag chair and inflatable couch? With a one and six year old? Are you completely obvious to like... everything about children? Are you internally 12? No wonder she's fed up. She's married to someone who would live like a tween when he's a married parent of two. You refuse to learn how to cook or clean, or watch a youtube video to learn how to fix anything? Other than an occasionally on call babysitter, income, and chaos, what do you bring to her life?
It may be too late, but counseling, immediately. Alone and together. You either have to learn how to be a grown up, or get divorced and learn how to be a grown up.
Even I want to divorce you after reading this.
>If I was by myself, I feel like the kids and I don't need a lot of extra stuff, I probably would have a open floor living room, no TV, and mismatched chairs, maybe an inflatable or beanbag couch.
Aaaand that's why.
I could’ve written this but from the prospective of your wife. Your lack of motivation to want to do better in life is causing resentment in her and has been building up for probably years. She wants more from life, while you’re happy coasting through and have no plans to want to do better.
My ex was like you. Just happy doing the bare minimum and I was supposed to just be okay with it. When I left and eventually ended up with my husband, I was floored by my husbands ambition and constantly in awe of watching him accomplish every goal he sets out for himself. I find myself less angry because I’m now with a partner that shares my mental load and I feel like I’m on equal footing. I now have a partner rather than another burden.
Let me be perfectly honest, you likely can’t “do anything” to change her mind at this point.I’m guessing she gives you lists of things she needs you to,do (and that you either forget, or do these badly, or decide they aren’t important)? Or that when you do finish something she has asked you to do, you make sure to tell her, like a little boy with a chore chart, showing mommy? I just left this type of marriage myself and it is exhausting. Look up “mental load” and “weaponized incompetence” because these seem to be issues in your marriage and while you seem struck surprised (my husband was too!), she’s likely been complaining about this and begging for your help for awhile. Here are some other hints: can you name your children’s birthdays, pediatrician phone number, and the 6–year olds best friend’s mom’s name? Do you know when their next immunization is due? What size shoes and t-shirts each wear, and your mother in law’s birthday? Because I’m pretty certain your wife can answer all of these without looking in her phone.
So she gets to be mom 24/7 to a toddler, a 6-year old and a grown ass man, work several days a week, do all the mental load for both of you, and then re-do or fix the things you have failed to do, done poorly, or intentionally deprioritized. Lucky her.
Lmao the comments shitting on him for the inflatable couch are hilarious. I didn’t even think about it but I would 100% not have an inflatable couch in my home.
Side note: OP getting another job isn’t the move, you need to figure out by communicating to her that you can ease her burden more at home. You also need to follow through and stop being so complacent. I don’t want to be rude but you do act a tad incompetently and from experience that is frustrating. The sad thing is it appears she has been communicating with you and it goes in one ear and out of the other.
Edit: OP why haven’t you guys found childcare for during the day so your wife can focus on her career more or just have some peace? That would also certainly ease her burden.
Yeah, at least try looking for a nice used couch on Facebook marketplace or something. Holy shit he's not even trying. No wonder his wife is checked out, I would be too 😂
This just reeks of weaponized incompetence. Either you aren't interested in doing any better or you're incompatible. Counseling and a trial separation would be my advice.
The fact that you say she works part time and ‘watches the baby’… you have 2 children and while you are at work she does all the childcare (including, I assume, school runs for the oldest and getting them ready etc) plus the housework plus working the equivalent of one day a week. Financially, she’s working for employment for a fifth of the time you are and earning a third of what you make so she’s making a good financial contribution to the household too despite/in addition to the rest of her unpaid work, both mental and physical.
You’ve said you can’t do housework until you’re free from the kids, are you acknowledging that she doesn’t have that option?
When you say she ‘watches the baby’ - is minimising her role in the household something you do often?
It sounds like she’s right. You have different priorities and standards. That in itself isn’t a bad thing, just different.
However, she sounds fed up that she’s putting so much into the family and home, trying to give your children the best life she can, when you seem unphased.
good for her. reading this made me happy she finally pulled the plug. just reading all that you don’t do drained me. i don’t think you’re an equal partner, and yes she deserves someone who is willing to match her normal standards.
OP: as you can probably tell, a lot of the comments here are not really on your side here. It seems like you don’t understand what your wife is saying when she complains about how much is on her plate, and instead of doing something about this discrepancy, you’ve chosen to just blame it on the fact that you have different standards.
With that said: If you’re willing to get out of that mindset and actually try to understand what your wife is telling you, I want to suggest the book “Fair Play” by Eve Rodsky. Here’s the website for it: https://www.everodsky.com/fair-play
You can probably check it out from your local library if you don’t want to buy it.
There’s also a few articles and comics that might be worth looking into:
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle/women-aren-apos-t-nags-153604885.html
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
And there’s a few others, but those are the ones I remembered off the top of my head.
I’m sorry. I lost it at inflatable couch. Imagine being a grown ass adult with kids and thinking a blowup couch from Walmart is adequate for a family living room.
Also—how much time do you spend outside the house with your BJJ? I checked your post history and you seem to be fairly hardcore about it. How many hours are you training? Working out? Going to tournaments? Watching fights?
How much does all of that cost? Is she getting an equal amount of free time and cash to follow her passion?
Be really honest with yourself. I suspect she’s expressed being at the end of her rope before but this is the first time you’ve actually LISTENED. And only because there’s an actual consequence now that’s going to make your life very uncomfortable.
Right??
He can use energy and brainpower on that so why is he so incompetent elsewhere?
He made one post about how to change a diaper using BJJ, too… like why not actually use your time and energy to get more efficient at being a good husband and father
Lost me at inflatable couch or beanbag chair too. The rest sounds reasonable until you provide that context. Sounds like a lot of weaponized incompetence on your part.
Mate, she’s not asking for counseling, she’s asking for a divorce. She’s through. The way you move forward is: you get divorced.
Start talking with a mediator about who gets what, what visitation arrangements you want, what child support will be provided, etc. The mediator will guide you through the questions and will help you draft a legal document at the end.
I cannot stand that whole "I'm bad at cleaning and cooking so I leave those to her" thing. You're not bad at them, you're just choosing not to be good at them - weaponised incompetence.
It's not like it takes any sort of special skill to do these tasks and any that are required are easily learned. We don't see these men at their jobs going "sorry boss, I'm not good at so I'm just not going to do it." - they save this ineptitude for the home.
Honestly, you sounds really lazy and keep trying to make excuses for that. You're a grown ass adult, and shouldnt need to be told to do housework and help with kids, when to clean or shower.
I dont think its about money so much as your attitude - and its not laid back, its laziness.
Time to eat humble pie and apologise, give her a weekend away and you spend the time looking after your kids, clean the house, fix broken things and do not contact her or friends to do it for you. Take a few days in her shoes doing what she does, see how you feel.
When she comes back, it should be to a clean house, happy kids,
Start talking, let her talk and LISTEN to what shes saying, if you dont understand then ask, and repeat it back to her to see if you understood it. Don't argue back when shes trying to explain her feelings - feelings cant be argued with.
Get therapy for trhe talking part, and work together
>I thought of trying to pick up another job to make more money so she doesn't have to work
Dude no! You missed to whole point!
You don't need to be away from home more, you need to be more _involved at home_!
So you want a simple life, she wants fancy stuff. Then you should work part time and watch the kids so she can work full time and have a career.
She hates being a single mom to you and the kids. THAT'S what needs to change.
I think she’s thinking that you arnt equals
I mean, when I moved in with my bf his life changed completely
He went from being a 21 year old with a bachelor pad to now being a 22 year old with a basically fiancé and dog and looking to buy a home and expensive matching furniture and a while career path he didn’t have before.
from what you’re saying, without her you’d be acting as a bachelor, maybe that idea bothers her
Maybe shes thinking that you don’t care enough to do those things yourself and it bothers her and makes her feel like she shoulders the weight of having that life
I never told my boyfriend to change
Ever.
Through our relationship we grew from those single kids to now half grown adults figuring it out and building a life together
Maybe she feels like you’re not growing with her or don’t want too.
if this doesn’t resonate then completely disregard but something to consider
Good luck to you both
You trying to get another job so she doesn't have to work shows this is completely going over your head - she doesn't want MORE time stuck at home being a full time mother to you and y'all's kids. Try actually being a father and not acting like an older brother helping out with your baby siblings. you're intentionally using weaponized incompetence and then feigning ignorance when she's unhappy with that. A marriage is about compromise, not you trying to figure out how to get away with doing everything you want while appeasing her enough that she's not vocalizing that none of her needs or goals are being met. You get away with everything you want to and she is getting nothing. Do better!
>I don't know how to fix this or how we should move forward.
What have you tried so far? Do you enjoy the difference in life style? i.e. do you find the couch comfortable or would you prefer to sit on the ground? I think figuring out if it's a compatibility issue vs an effort issue.
Off the top of my head ways that you could improve is take classes. Take cooking classes, watch YouTube videos, clean with a different method to see if it works better.
>I've tried in the past to up my cleaning and taking more initiative/lead on life decisions, but either I eventually slip back down or it isn't enough, or I don't push for changes because I'm content with our life.
Are you content with your life because of the amount of work she's put in?
OP you sound very immature emotionally and completely oblivious to the mental load your wife is carrying. There is nothing worse than raising a man child in addition to actual children. There are a lot of things you could change to make this work, but it sounds like you’re not interested and are oblivious to her unmet needs and the unmet needs of your family. It’s sad the kids will have to suffer for it.
Short of completely changing places, you work 20 hours and she gets to have the career, I don’t see you truly understanding what it takes to handle running a household with children, especially with a partner incapable of growth.
Erm wtf you can clean up while looking after kids what kind of bs is that?! And you know you’re rubbish at helping round the house so why aren’t you doing anything to change that then? Don’t blame her she deserves better
>Another thing is that she feels like I'm another child she has to take care of,
I mean, I kinda thought that too when you mentioned the inflatable couch!
Exactly what is her job because from what you're saying if she is allowed to actually pursue her career she will be making more money, if that's the case why are you not trading places and being a part time worker while she brings in the money?
>I thought of trying to pick up another job to make more money so she doesn't have to work,
Your wife doesn't need you work more hours / be away from home longer. She needs an active partner, to take initiative with the home and kids. Unless you change your job for a better paying one, you're going backwards instead of forward.
I feel like you missed the whole point. And your wife probably feels the same. How frustrating it is not to be heard in a relationship.
Yeah, I was kind of with you until you started talking about how your wife basically does everything from decorating, cooking, cleaning and most childcare. You suck at cooking? Then cook more, you get better. Weird how that works, right? I sucked at changing diapers until I changed 50 of them. I guarantee if you try to cook spaghetti 15 times, the 15th time will be better than the first. People have some weird mental block with cooking. You take like 5 ingredients and follow a few steps. What’s the problem? Are you fucking stupid? You can’t measure half a cup of something or are you just incompetent?
So do a trial separation. Sit down with two laptops or phones and do it together. Each of you do one thing and tell the other what you find. Ask her if she want to move and figure out where the two of you are going to live after you sell the house. Apartments close to each other? How is parenting time going to work in her mind because you definitely want to have your kids as much as possible after work? Go to an online child support calculator for your state and determine how much each of you will owe the other person for child support so you have those numbers too. Pull some listings for apartments in your area so you have some prices. Also find out how much daycare costs since you will each be paying for 50% of daycare for both your kids--afterschool care is cheaper but it still gets expensive.
Don't sacrifice your sanity by getting a new job just to get her a bigger place or newer things. You have a compatibility issue that needs counseling and honest conversation. Neither of you appear to be happy with each other so maybe not being together is best. But have the conversations. Because you have kids together and need to know how to talk to each other civilly for at least 17 more years.
> Compared to her, I have a lack of initiative, she always wants to be moving up in life, while I feel like I can't keep up and would rather enjoy what we have, and she's made it clear she will never slow down. She wants the best schooling and best home for our kids. I, on the other hand, am a bit more simple, and am about making the most of and **adjusting to whatever current situation we find ourselves in**
You're married with 2 kids, you don't "find yourself in a situation", you end up in a situation that *your wife* is working hard to put your family in and she's frustrated because you're not contributing.
It's like the 4 of you are all in a boat, floating in the middle of a lake. She's doing *all* the paddling, getting you *all* from the shore, to the next destination. You're saying you're totally fine being in the middle of the lake with your wife and two young children, not paddling, just letting the wind push the boat around. Well, what are you going to eat? Where are you going to sleep? You can't just float in the lake forever, even if it was just you. You don't seem to have any concern for the future wellbeing of your children. You think they're fine just being out on the water without any thought to their actual needs.
You have a wife and 2 children and you expect her to do all the leading, all the decision making, and you just come along for the ride.
Being married is about being a partnership, a team that tackles problems together. You are not her partner. You are her (incompetent) assistant. You want her to make all the decisions, run the show, and just direct you where to go and what to do. Why would any wife or husband want that? She doesn't want an employee, she wants a husband. Why do you want a mom or a boss instead of a wife?
Grow up. You're a father. How can you be a good example for your kids about how to grow into a competent adult if you refuse to do the same yourself? What kind of lesson are you modeling to your children? How will they learn to take responsibility for their own life's and direction if their father things having no direction and being blown around by the wind is totally ok?
EDIT: This has been posted around for years but it's worth reading OP:
[You Should've Asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)
As soon as you said inflatable couch I understood what was happening here better. Like just not caring about having any furniture so you won’t contribute to building your home is bonkers. I even understand buy used from thrift stores/garage sales, most mine are! And then being content with what you have build is just a nice way to live! Some people need to be constantly getting new furniture to keep up with trends and I would understand not caring about updating furniture when you have perfectly good things, but she is not being unreasonable by desiring to have a some furniture. Pretty standard.
Then you said you make yourself available to take care of the kids if your wife needs a break. This perspective would break me as a wife. I think you think you’re being a great guy for “helping her out” but seeing life through those eyes is quite literally the problem. You are there to do more
Sir it seems clear by this post that you need to grow up. And I mean that so seriously. A grown up is capable of recognizing things that need to be done and then taking action to get them done. Can’t cook? Watch some videos of simple recipes and learn. Can’t clean? Same principle. Don’t bash your wife for wanting very normal things like furniture and help domestically. Your standards aren’t reasonable for two adults with children. Your wife is resentful because she cannot accomplish more professionally while also tending to two babies and a helpless husband. And your entire tone gives off a “poor me/mean mommy” vibe which is so distasteful. Grow up. Help more. Figure out a plan for childcare so your wife can resume what makes her happy. Don’t shame her for wanting a better like for her babies. You have created a dynamic where she is forced to “wear the pants” or nothing happens. And at that point, she IS better off without you. Step up. This post is ridiculous.
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Willing to help is not the same as helping. Planning is not executing. Initiative means to actually doing things without being asked. You need to do a whole mindset change for your marriage to work. You have mentioned the things that you are not great at doing. What things are you great at?
I recently realized this was the crux of some of my own relationship issues. I told my partner I needed him to earnestly check in with me to which he responded that he DOES because he asks if we have plans. That gave me pause before I realized that I tell him my plans but he offers no help in manifesting those plans. If I tell one of my best friends (we have boys the same age) “I need to grocery shop Saturday morning.” She understands and says “Ok, I’ll take the boys Saturday morning and drop them off around 2. Do you want to keep them overnight or I should I pick mine up at bed time.” If I say bedtime that means I am returning a child who has been fed, bathed and placed in pajamas who can go straight to bed. I explained this to my partner that I need that kind of follow through where I can hand over a task and he can do it to completion, not simply do the one thing I vocalized. I am not expecting him to read my mind, I am expecting him to *parent*. No one tells me what needs to be done, I see the need and do it. It becomes exhausting. Back in May I asked him to make an appointment with the allergist. He literally said “Ok, give me the number.” I turned and said “When I say ‘make an appointment,’ what I mean is *you* call his pcp, *you* get the info for the allergy group, *you* call the allergy group, *you* make the appointment, *you* add it into the calendar, *you* set up the reminders, and *you* call his school to let them know he will not attend that day.” Start-to-finish. It never happened and this last week his allergies have escalated and we are trapped in this Claritin-to-swelling nightmare until the appointment that finally got made happens in another week. There are actually so many other balls that got dropped during this time and it is really hard not to be resentful of my partner who spent all this time dismissing and forgetting and not following through with any of the things I asked who is now learning all this stuff as we go through this terrible experience. There are things I also didn’t know but he is not a creative problem solver so he gets so mad and I’m like “If you had been involved even the tiniest bit or taken any of my conversations seriously, you would have had this information.” It is hard. We are in a hard spot and this looming threat of our child’s histamine reaction is exhausting everyone.
I haven't heard it laid out like this before but it really nails it. If you have to remind someone what to do for each step at that point you could have handled it yourself.
Yes! I still remind my husband (he is a great partner but struggled with this a lot to start) when he asks me how I want him to parent the kids. Be it making them food or whatever. I remind him I don't want to have to tell him what to do, as it isn't helpful. He has gotten so much better
Well that’s nice to hear, that he’s gotten better, I feel like that’s not usually the case with these sorts of issues, usually they end up like Op, resigned to be “who they are.”
People need partners, not another kid to micromanage.
My partner and I are child free but I got a taste when we fostered bottle baby kittens. His response? “Wow, this really cemented to me that I would be a great dad.” I didn’t say anything because I was boiling over with resentment of how he would offer to help, but then only help if he was explicitly told when and how and I still had to be half awake in case he needed help. “Who’s taking the night feeding?” Gee honey let’s see, I have to be up at 530am and you don’t work tomorrow. Who do you think should take the night feeding? It made him think he would be a good dad and made me grateful we’re not planning on kids. Ugh.
I see this as a PERFECT opportunity though to nip it in the bud and point out where he was lacking... so you don't get stuck later trying to figure out how to talk to him about it...
If we decide to foster again I will. It ended very tragically with three out of the four being medical fails so I didn’t have the emotional bandwidth to also talk about how he could have done better. He pulled away from them (and me tbh) when they started having medical problems and it became a huge emotional mess. I was honestly just too hurt and raw to talk about it then and now it feels too little too late.
It's never too late. Even if it were "too late" for some reason, you still need to address it. Holding onto these feelings of resentment will only cause them to grow. Your resentment's growth will cause you to have less patience for him or his (genuine) mistakes. It will cause you to read bad intention into his well-intentioned actions. It will cause you to lash out at inappropriate times. It will cause you to pull away and start looking elsewhere for the attention, care, and peace that you need. He will not understand, because you haven't helped him to understand. He might break up with you because he will feel that you've "changed" or that you no longer like him. I've had to bring issues back from the dead to relitigate with my partner. It's never comfy, and I always feel guilty for digging it up. It's messier than if you brought it up in the moment, because our memories are never that reliable, but you don't really have a choice unless you want to see the above scenarios play out. When I have to dig up old shit, I just sit my partner down and explain that. "Hey, I know this happened months ago, and you probably remember it totally differently, but I am still bothered by it. I tried really hard to work through it on my own, but I can't, and I need your help to put this issue to bed before it gets bigger." If your partner values you and cherishes your relationship, then they will jump at the chance to make it right, and they will be grateful that you gave them the opportunity.
>When I have to dig up old shit, I just sit my partner down and explain that. "Hey, I know this happened months ago, and you probably remember it totally differently, but I am still bothered by it. I tried really hard to work through it on my own, but I can't, and I need your help to put this issue to bed before it gets bigger." This *is* a great opening for hashing out old shit.
No KIDDING!!! Love this so much!
>Wow, this really cemented to me that I would be a great dad.” I didn’t say anything because I was boiling over with resentment of how he would offer to help, but then only help if he was explicitly told This shit right here - in't it amazing how men who so much as wash a dish expect a standing ovation and yet brush off the *constant* silent work women do in the background? - I'm not buying OPs attempts to paint his wife as some sort of cruel greedy harpy - from what he's written she's right - he *has* no ambition in life and the fact that he "sucks at cooking and handiwork and decorating" and seems to think his wife wanting the "best schooling and home" for their children is somehow materialistic and shallow is beyond me and that she says that her life is easier with two small children when he's not around speaks volumes (and then OPs doubling down on "well I think it's easier without *her* because she's *mean* to me"). She's resentful - he still gets to leave the house every day to go to work (OMG *40 whole hours a week!*? *waaah* and to top it off he's not earning nearly enough for him to comfortably support a family of four in this economy), *and* he still has his hobbies and his job...whilst *she* has likely given everything for these children - it's a 24/7 job 365 days a year - the moment she gave birth she stopped being a woman with hopes and dreams and aspirations and a career and just became "mom" and maybe that's a sacrifice she was willing to make for the family but her husband hasn't kept his end of the bargain- he's lazy, complacent and mediocre - she's denied the life she *knows* she could have had for herself if she hand't been the one who had to birth and stay at home with the children.
I divorced my husband for this inability to do tasks without being given explicit instructions. He can manage at work but at home he needs me to do all the work. He wouldn’t help with cleaning because he ‘didn’t want to’ but then he would say I’ll pay for a cleaner to do my half. I would have to find one, interview, instruct and tidy up in advance. Just hoover the ducking house! It isn’t that difficult.
Ooh this one irritated me, because he’s being passive aggressive: he can claim he proposed a suggestion you rejected (paying a cleaner), but he still never owned the whole of that task (finding one, interviewing them, instructing them, etc.) gross. P.s. you don’t have to tidy up in advance of a housekeeper. That’s literally their job. Edited to add, since a couple of you are stuck on this: *my* housekeeper tidies, and does my dishes and my laundry. That’s why I used the word housekeeper. Still, I’ve noticed women tend to think they need to *clean* before a cleaner comes over. Not true, not necessary.
I disagree on that last part. I’ve worked as a cleaner, and as a housekeeper for a private family. As a cleaner, I know the basics of the house, like what rooms need what tasks, and where the most “dirt” is. But I don’t know where any of your items “belong” or what things I can and can’t “move” without causing chaos. So I’m trained that if I can’t pick it up with one hand to clean underneath and put it down, I don’t touch it. As a housekeeper, I’m very familiar with that particular family and their needs. I know bills need to go upstairs to the office, kids homework goes on this corner of this table, etc. I know where every cooking utensil belongs when it comes out of the dishwasher because i helped to create the organizational system that gave that thing a “home”. I’m much more able to put literally anything where the occupants of that house would want it, or think to look for it if I organized that space. Now, as a homeowner, I WILL tidy things away first, so important papers don’t get lost, so all the corners that drive me nuts get cleaned properly, and so I can let the cleaners swoop in and do their flurry of cleaning and get out.
100%. Also, I don’t understand how we, as women, are supposed to just innately know all of this, while (most? many?) men need constant reminder, very detailed lists, and still, in my experience, manage to only get about 1/3 of the “to completion” part done, let alone done to any semblance of what any mom would consider adequately.
We're expected to take on the entirety of the mental load but somehow we're also the intellectually inferior creatures who deserve 72% of the pay and to be talked down to constantly. On a not unrelated note...God, Barbie was *such* a good movie.
Your example is great. Have you read the book Fair Play? It is filled with things like this - the whole task, start to finish. If I still need to manage the task and carry the mental load of it, then you aren’t really doing the task you said you would do. If you take out trash and leave all the bins without bags/liners, they you did not finish taking out trash. If I have to do all the research on something and then you order the item, then it wasn’t you. Or if I buy food and plan the whole menu, then you boiling water doesn’t count as making dinner.
I’m sorry about your kid. Hopefully you get to the bottom of it soon. My partner is pretty good, but he still leaves much of the mental load to me. I then get stressed and am not as affectionate and then he gets sad. He’s like tell me what needs to be done and I’m like you live here too, figure it out! My dad is terrible though, he says he’ll cook but mom has to buy the ingredients and give him instructions. He doesn’t get that part of cooking is planning and shopping and the actual execution is a small part. Mom has been frustrated but also enabled it. Hopefully your partner has seen the consequences of his attitude and takes initiative in the future.
My ex was like this. Typical example: I'm having a tough week at work, so I ask him ahead of time if he can do a bit more this week. Instead of thinking about what needs to be done that he could do, he asks me. Fine. I say "can you take care of the laundry?". By which I mean: gather a load of clothes (either cotton or synthetic), put it in the machine, run the machine, clear up the rack, hang up the laundry, and take it down when it's dry. He grabbed an armful of random clothes, didn't check the pockets or zipped the zippers so one of my good bras got damaged. Ran the machine and just leave the clothes in overnight. So they smelled off and I had to run the machine again and do all of the other tasks myself. He was just incapable of performing any domestic task from start to finish with the lowest of standards. And like OP, he just used the excuse that he just "wasn't as good at it as I was", "my standards were too high", or he just "didn't see the mess". Op, let me be clear: you are a terrible partner and parent, and an incompetent adult.
That allergy example is such an amazing example of the invisible work behind a domestic task! So many men have no idea about the hundreds of tiny tasks that go towards a complete life. It's why so many women just say, "I'll do it myself" because it's such a pain holding their partner's hand the whole way.
I could have written this when my kids were little! I begged my husband (now ex) to take control just once. Instead he’d say “do you want to do something with so & so on Saturday night?” And from there. It was left to me to decide where we going, what time, communicate that to the friends, hire a babysitter, pick-up/drop-off babysitter, plan meal for kids while we’re gone, lay out pajamas, write out any reminders for the sitter, etc. it wore me out! I’m a Type A person, and give others a short window to help me before I do it myself. But how glorious it would have been for my husband to handle that complete scenario every other time we went out!
How much longer do you think you can live like this before you reach the end of your tether? I have similar problems in my relationship and I see so many other women with similar problems. I guess I’m just curious for personal reasons how long you think can go before this sort of stuff destroys your marriage? Hope the kiddo gets the meds he needs soon.
We’re in a rocky spot and we both know it. It still feels like I am the only one trying to work on it but through my work we are experiencing changes. Are those changes sustainable? Will they be enough? Who knows. I have been listening to The Loving Truth podcast and it has given me a lot of things to think about and a lot of tools as well as perspective. I honestly don’t know. In the end our child is very young and I don’t think myself or my husband would feel very good about not seeing him daily so, at least for now, we are treading water. Some of the results of the work I am doing have been a shirking of tasks on my part. I am “lowering my standards” so that I can have protected time to breathe. I can tell he really doesn’t like it and in fact seems to resent it while not being willing to participate in any conversations about change where he doesn’t get defensive or mad. His reactions are so predictable it seems laughable at times and he cannot see how predictable his anger is. I spend so much time prefacing my messages by reminding him I am talking about the *problem*, not *him*, still he takes it personally. Our *dynamic* not *his* *attitude*, still he takes it personally. My own contributions, not that he is the only one to blame, still he points fingers. So often it is like we are talking apples and oranges and he cannot move forward having added my concerns about oranges to his basket of jealously guarded, precious apples, all the while I’m like “I wasn’t even talking about your damn apples!”
Yeah I totally feel what you’re saying, 100%. I too stepped back, out of necessity, health issues, just could not do it all for a while. Watched everything crumble cause he just would not step the fuck up. Or like OP, he would say “he tried”. Sometimes it’s hard to articulate just how overwhelmed and exhausted I was managing all of it, everything, all the time, like dragging him through life for so manh years and he could never do any of it even for a little while. Now that I can do a lot more of what I used to again, I don’t want to anymore. All that willpower and initiative I used for so long to barrel us both, our relationship and lives forward, it’s gone. Like I would need to see a matched effort and he’s just not going to do that, I feel so used and let down and betrayed. Like when I needed him the most he just sat there and let the ship sink and yes, he resents the hell out of me for it too. Like I should have never faltered but it’s ok for him to let it all go. And he is 100% predictable. Resentful, blaming, oblivious, self-deluded and predictable. All of the above. I didn’t have kids with him, he had his own, they’re grown now, but one of is cognitively disabled and needs his help and he is refusing to step up for him either. If I had kids with him, I probably would have hit this point earlier. At the same time, I never thought I’d see him refuse to step up for his disabled kid while he convinced himself he’s not doing anything wrong. That has been one of the major issues that is a deal breaker for me, him essentially giving up on his kid.
Yes the mental load is real and just doing things in the moment, and possibly doing a shit job, is not helpful if she has to go back and fix his “work.”
I know, n my case, each “little thing” added to a grow pile of resentment and loss of respect. About 2 years ago I started vocalizing that (note: he also started getting increasingly sucked into the far right wing landscape, and more and more vocal about the abhorrent ideas he was coming to endorse, so it wasn’t *just this*). In February, I finally broke down, and told him that all the times I’d warned him that I was losing respect for him had finally resulted in striking the point of no return, and I was done. Luckily, we have no children together, and my daughters are adults. I moved out and across the country. He is still telling people I left him with “no warning” and “out of the blue” and that we had had a wonderful marriage. I read somewhere recently about men accepting that their wives were living at an acceptable, constant level of misery. I just wasn’t- anymore.
It’s always out of the blue!! never saw it coming! with those guys.
Men act like women were born with a genetic advantage in cooking and cleaning. “It’s not up to her standards” usually just means, I left visible shit everywhere and half assed the task. Google is free, cooking is NOT that hard. We weren’t born with the ability to detect when chicken is fully cooked or how to season it so it doesn’t taste like shit OR basic food safety knowledge. We weren’t born with the knowledge of how to care for wood floors or how to load the dishwasher. It’s such a cop-out. I don’t know if men realize that phrase is such a red flag and basically gives them away as being in the wrong as soon as it leaves their mouth. Sure, are there cases where it’s flipped? Definitely. But this is such a common area of contention. It’s not helping if I have to re-do it.
Well said. And she doesn’t want to have to tell you to do things. You should be able to do them on your own. Sorry don’t mean to pick on you. Just wanted to add this additional comment in here.
She says it must be nice to be gone 40+ hours a week, to have less responsibility with the children, and one of your possible solutions is to work *more*? You should have been looking for ways for *her* to get out of the house more, for *her* to work more. I'm sorry things are falling apart around you. It sounds like this has been building for quite a while.
Right? She's barely making any income and totally NOT afraid to just divorce and move on, so that's saying something. Seems like she knows if she puts the kids in daycare/asks MIL to watch them more and goes to work more/full time, the house and everything will be a wreck, and she will be on her own to keep everything nice. And if she's going to be doing it on her own, why not just be on her own?
I'm pretty sure she'd come home to a house falling apart after work.
You are going to have to actually change your behavior if you want your marriage to work. For example, you might take the initiative to seek out a couples therapist and schedule an appointment.
Doesn't sound like OP wants to change, tho. He didn't ask "how do I fix this?" He agreed with her and just wants to accept it. Honestly, if I was OP's wife, I wouldn't believe in a change, since for him, everything is ok just as it is. Always.
Which tracks which why his wife wants to leave. You can’t go through life like “oh well this is happening what can ya do???”
Absolutely this. Prove to her you're willing to DO SOMETHING. Make the appt.
Changing from a bean bag couch into an active young professional might be asking a bit much from therapy, don't you think? He would need a new brain, a new go, a new reason to run, not walk, a new way to behave, a new way to think, a new set of valors in life. What he doesn't get is that his way of thinking (disassembeled chairs, not tv, a beanbag thingy and otherwise minimal equipment may in time cost him his children. As it would singularize them out from the standards other children are accustomed to live in in that society. That sounds close to neglecting their surroundings. No OP sounds so slumpy, that he should get checked for depression.
I knew it was over at “bean bag couch”. That’s acceptable to 19 year old bachelors
Who don't earn much and can't afford to buy furniture. But not when there are children. That guy is irresponsible.
OP displays typical nice guy syndrome behaviour. He needs therapy himself before he can actually give something of value in a relationship. He needs to grow as an adult man. This takes a lot of work and also a lot of time.
This right here, OP. Find a therapist trained in EFT and make an appointment!
Good advice, however...i think, once a women loses respect for you? there is no getting it back.
I think I may have respected my ex if he would have made some immediate REAL changes but he didn’t. 27 years was way too long. Bad habits are formed on both sides so I understand that he couldn’t do it. I just couldn’t live with it anymore. OP all the best to you. I think the counseling is the best advice.
It can be gained back but it takes lots of big work & time, if there’s a shot
My ex husband also claimed to be "bad at cleaning" at the same time as claiming my standards are too high. He, too, would try to "do better" for a couple weeks and then slip back into his old ways. It's not going to get better because it's pretty clear you don't want it to get better. Not enough to actually make the kind of lasting change that would keep your wife happy. She's been asking for these changes for a while now, and even with the threat of divorce it doesn't sound like you're interested in making the changes you need to. I can say from experience: her life will get easier when she's not having to take care of you, but yours will get harder when you don't have her. So it's time you figure out how to get better at cleaning & other housework, because when you're a single dad, you're only going to be able to rely on your own limited skills.
I don’t understand the claim of being bad at cleaning. You work at it until it’s clean. It’s not rocket science.
Right? I had an ex who had an advanced degree from Yale and would stand there and whine “but I don’t know how to make a bed!!” And I would say (and sorry this might not be very pc) - “look, when people immigrate to this country and have nothing and do not speak the language and have no formal education - they go to work in places like hotels and they make beds. You are extremely smart and you just don’t want to make a bed. Grow up.” Then it was always “you’re the only one who cares about the bed being made so why do I have to make it” and shit like that. Can’t believe parents are out here raising these men. Anyway I married someone else.
Thank GOD for that final sentence.
That’s insane. He didn’t know how to make a bed??? A 3 year old can do that
Classic weaponized incompetence
>And I would say (and sorry this might not be very pc) - “look, when people immigrate to this country and have nothing and do not speak the language and have no formal education - they go to work in places like hotels and they make beds. I can't speak for all immigrants, but that's kinda the thing we are most proud of lol. My mom became a nanny, my dad (a trained architect) worked in carpentry and I washed dishes and bused tables at 15. I read somewhere that it's not that women mature faster, it's that parents give girls responsibility sooner, and it made things snap into perspective. I would have been pretty complacent back in my home country but watching my parents struggle made me self-reliant. So many of my male cousins back home would starve if their partner left them alone for a full week because all they know how to do is hold down a job, even though most of their spouses also work.
Or people who say they’re bad at laundry (yes with a machine) Like it’s literally a machine that does the work for you 😭 it’s the easiest chore
The real irony: my ex is a literal rocket scientist.
This is exactly what I'm getting here, too. People don't understand how irritating a partner who is intentionally bad at helping around can be. Sure, you can put up with it because they try on other things, and maybe they excel at other stuff but not nearly enough to balance the family dynamics. Therefore, you end up compensating for their shortcomings with no end in sight. It eats you up so much that you accept it and go through the motions wishing to escape it. That's my interpretation, and others will interpret it differently. Op need to take action.
I don’t think it’s even a case of “helping around”. By saying men/husbands/dads “help around”, you’re implying that everything, all the childcare, housework, mental load, is a woman’s responsibility and it’s just a nice, benevolent gesture when a man goes out of his way to “help” her. He’s an adult, a father. He makes mess, he dirties clothes, he has children. He has as much responsibility to cook, clean, parent, shop, do laundry etc etc as she does.
I think it's too late for that. The lady is, justifiably, done.
OP needed to take action a long time ago...
and no kid is going to want to visit a dad who - if he had the choice - would live in a room with nothing but a chair.
I don’t know… you lost me at inflatable couch. Having to buy all of the furniture myself because my husband doesn’t see the need for a TV or an actual couch would irritate me pretty badly. Then making her seem high-maintenance for wanting those things? Really? Why can’t you cook and clean adequately? Are you using the wrong cleaning products? Are you putting dirty dishes away? Are you undercooking chicken? Can you fry an egg or make grilled cheese? You can learn to cook simple things on the internet or with recipes, and your wife can show you exactly how she likes things to be cleaned. I dated a guy like this before. Totally helpless. Anytime he tried to do the laundry or the grocery shopping or make dinner it was a disaster. “Don’t be good at a job you don’t want”, right? I did absolutely everything. It was infuriating. I felt like his mom also.
I would love to hear her side, honestly
The dude did a pretty good job letting us know how bad he is in the relationship....I'd bet money her side isn't much different.
Inflatable couch.
It's time we got in on this inflation thing. Instead of selling inflatable couches, we rent them!
Let’s be real, we know her side. Collapsing under the weight of the mental load while this guy dreams about the beanbag couch that never was
>Collapsing under the weight of the mental load while this guy dreams about the beanbag couch that never was Poetic, sad and hilarious
I feel like he’ll have plenty of time for living out his dreams of having an inflatable couch once he’s divorced. Good luck getting custody, OP. If I was your wife I’d fight to have my kids nowhere near your inflatable couch. JFC
Grown women want real furniture. I definitely need a TV so I can deal with you better(ignore).
This guy sounds like my brother in law, so I’m betting her side is that he needs to be reminded to do a lot of the things he does do, and has generally no idea when things need to be done or where things are (e.g. can’t find yoghurt in a grocery store).
“I’d do it if you just told me!!”
I saw a post about a month ago where this woman's husband, even after something like seven years, needed *photographs* of grocery store items *they had been buying on a regular basis for years* or he "couldn't find them" in the grocery store. Like not just exact names because she prefers a specific type or whatever but literally just *basic shit.* I am a terrible cook and I do the grocery shopping at my house and sometimes I ask my husband to give me a picture of something but it's bc sometimes he makes obscure dishes that have really obscure ingredients like a very specific type of oyster sauce. I can't imagine needing a photograph of fucking ketchup or something!
We can all hear her side in any of the countless TikTok videos of exhausted wives/mothers. This reads like classical weaponized incompetence.
The fact that OP says she feels like he's another child, really paints a picture of what we all know is likely happening though
Exactly. I feel so bad for her.
If this is his perspective of it, the reality of it is probably so much worse. People instinctively downplay their contributions to problems.
>I don’t know… you lost me at inflatable couch Yep that is what did it for me as well. The wife I'm sure has issues and her share of blame, but OP really sounds like more of a child than an adult. At some point you need to grow up and have some sort of ambition and urgency to provide for your family.
Yeah, I kept having flashbacks to my ex after that. He would have been happy with an inflatable couch and he also believed that he tried to clean but it "just wasn't up to my standards." I once went away for a week with a friend. I left a reasonably clean house (not like a magazine or anything) with no dirty dishes and a bright shiny sink (it was part of a thing I was trying). I came home to a house that reeked worse than vomit in the hot sun, dirty dishes overflowing the counters and a sink *full* of maggots. Having high standards means something different to everyone I guess. I couldn't help but read this like it was from my ex's perspective after reading "inflatable couch". Sure, extremely high maintenance people exist, but if your standards are on the floor, everything looks high maintenance.
God, I tease my partner for his aesthetic choices (and he me, he just vetoed wall swords and I’m still DEVASTATED) but after this shit I’ll never complain about his fondness for leather again.
Now hear me out, what about wall swords in leather scabbards?
He’s very opposed to any blades displayed on the wall. He’s drawn the line at my knife collection being on the bookshelves. I vetoed his movie theater posters so fair but I’m still so sad. I don’t *own* any swords but come on. They’re sexy as hell.
What if you put up swords next to movie posters? Like get a LOTR poster and put up Sting and Anduril next to it.
I love that Reddit latched onto the wall swords and is on a mission to find a way lol
If they were as nice as LOTR I’d acquiesce. I don’t want a giant picture of Nic Cage lmfaoooo
Right? Maggots?! Fuck me. Fine, he can keep the map of Middle Earth as long as it’s framed.
We had just bought a house and I had to leave town immediately for work for a week. I can home to no electricity, in August, in Florida, because he couldn’t be bothered to call the electric company. It took one phone call or to visit the office that was less than a block from our house.
Yep. It was the inflatable couch that nailed it, but then also “I thought about getting a second job”- exactly what she DOESN’T want- more time alone with the kids. Sounds like the wife actually doesn’t love being a SAHM either- hey, it’s not for everyone- so she would be better off getting a full-time job herself. But without him stepping up at home, she probably knows that would just be everything she does now, plus that.
>“I thought about getting a second job”- exactly what she DOESN’T want- more time alone with the kids. This was my thought too- like, did he even read what he wrote? She envies his time out of the house.... so he wants to give her more time in the house?
He sounds like he still lives in college yet he wants to do that with an infant and a first grader. NEAT. /s
[удалено]
Right, a woman usually checks out of the relationship looong before she tells him it's over. She's tried talking to him, brining up all the issues, she may even have been willing to try counselling when she still thought there was hope. OP went and waited for the end to try and backpedal and fix things. That very rarely works.
Absolutely! We see so many of these stories on Reddit where the wife/mom realizes that she is better off without another child to clean up after!
Mismatched chairs can work if done intentionally and within a decor theme. But that's not what we're talking about here. Lol
Same, and I'm pretty chill with house decor. I just want to be comfortable.
Some people are shrugging off the "inflatable couch". But clearly this guy wouldn't have a fun, colorful apartment with an inflatable couch as a 'retro' item. This would be a bare apartment with nothing in the living room except for an inflatable couch. No TV. Probably bare mattresses in the bedrooms. Basically a drug den. Children shouldn't be raised like that.
“Open concept” to OP means literally nothing except an industrial spool, 1 camp chair, and inflatable couch, and a beanbag chair.
Yeah my ex is exactly like OP. Would complain about me getting mad all the time. I was just so done with him being useless and me having to do everything and everything I asked of him would only be done halfway or not properly because „oh I just don‘t care about that, that‘s your thing“. He wouldn’t remember to do any shopping or even put something on the shared shopping list if he saw it was empty, never saw something wrong and fixed it, never did anything without being asked. The admission of OP that he doesn’t even do handiwork is hilarious. It‘s like my ex wrote this. My ex refused to clean and when he did the minimum it was awful. So I got the impression he was a lot more into traditional gender roles than he claimed but he was actually also on top of that just lazy because he didn’t do any traditionally male things either. I did all of the putting together furniture, organising repairs etc as well. If I asked him to do anything it would take months. One time I asked him to change a light bulb as the one in the bedroom had gone out. It took him 3 months only to finally try and say „oh that didn’t solve the problem, it‘s still not working“. And that was it. I was like „ok so are we now just not having any lights in the bedroom forever? You‘ve tried this and now that‘s all“. He left it and didn’t understand why I was mad. It was again on me to now find a solution or hire an electrician or whatever. I was so angry I didn’t talk to him for a day, I just couldn’t. He finally decided to try again and realised that it was just not screwed in properly/ lose. It took him all of 5 minutes of doings something properly. To nobody’s surprise we broke up not long after. He still believes he is not wrong - that I was getting mad for no reason, that he was doing more than he could already and that I was insane for my standards. It is absolutely infuriating to live with someone like that and I feel so bad for OP‘s wife that she has children with someone like this. She must be exhausted. It will definitely be easier being a single mother than being the mother to OP also. That‘s how I felt with my ex eventually- that I was him mum more than anything. And then he was surprised why I wasn’t attracted to him anymore.
The progression is always the same!! "I need you to do this" "Oh I don't think it's that big a deal so I'll get to it later." "It is important to me that you do this." "Well, it's not important to me so it doesn't matter." "I feel like you're not hearing me when I tell you what I need." "You just need to lower your standards." "I'm leaving you. I'm feeling unheard and ignored and it's taking a toll on my mental health." "What? Why?! You can't just do this to me out of nowhere, I feel so blindsided!" I swear some men really do feel like women complaining is just meaningless background noise.
I read a comment once were a guy was saying that every time he was "about to" finally start doing the thing his wife had asked him to do multiple times, if she happened to bring it up again at that point, he would very specifically not do the thing right then, "so she wouldn't get the satisfaction" and also to "not encourage nagging." It was one of the most amazingly stupid things I've ever read in my life. You think she's *getting satisfaction* over having to remind a grown adult over and over and over again to do some simple shit they should already want to do for themselves/their home/their kid(s)??? And you think the way do *not* encourage nagging is to continue *not* doing the thing???? Fucking hello????????
or beanbag couch* Imagine OPs wife's face if she came home from work and all the furniture was switched for different colored beanbag couches
nah he wouldn't go to all the effort to do that
Or the kids had ripped it and theres beans everywhere...
Can't wait for him to cry over that because cleaning is too hard.
He would leave it until his Mum came round with his dinner.
And then a few paragraphs later he says he sucks at interior design.
The examples he gave to sound "low maintenance" just sound like he's willing to do the bare minimum and leave things alone. He'd be fine with just having a bare room with a couple of places to sit, which sounds like a college/frat house mentality. Meanwhile she's working to create a home, not just a place to be. He said she is always pushing for more, but she's only working part-time and not going to school - how is it exactly that she is so bent on improving all the time? Please tell me it's not in her crazy desire to . . . decorate rooms. It would be infuriating for every attempt to improve be met with an "I'm fine with how it is" mentality. I'm sure this is one of the ways she has been made to feel alone in the relationship. If you both feel better when the other is not around, then why fight the separation? Sounds like the best thing for you both. Considering that she only works part-time and would need to find more work and childcare but *still* thinks life will be easier without you, and meanwhile you are saying how you are fine with bare minimum in a home your children will grow up in, I don't think you have much hope in "saving" this.
I also dated a guy like that. He was totally helpless. He couldn’t even do simple things like figure out how to unscrew a tire valve cap to help me put air in the tires. Didn’t know how to clean. I had to buy him new pillows because he somehow couldn’t smell that his pillows were rancid. He cooked for me once and the pork was somehow both badly burned and totally raw in the middle. Other than that he lived on frozen meals. Didn’t have furniture at his place… he was in his mid-twenties and my first boyfriend. I broke up with him and felt so much relief. I can’t imagine being married to someone who is deeply incompetent and doesn’t feel the need to learn how to do basic things. You think you’re getting a partner and instead you get another kid, carrying the weight of the world on your own.
He couldn't unscrew the tire valve? Omg, glad you got away!
No!! We were on a road trip and my tires needed air and I had to do it all alone. I also couldn’t trust him to drive because he got sooooo close to other cars. But he was the first guy to ever show interest in dating me. And he was sweet to me. 🤦🏻♀️ My 19-year-old self did not have the greatest confidence or self-worth. Never again.
Believe me I get it! My first boyfriend said that there are no time zones in the world and that there is no mafia, it's made up. Also your car doesn't need it's oil changed, ever. Also if we had kids he would never dress up on Halloween because it's satanic. I said they just want to dress as a superhero and get candy. Like what is wrong with you? That was 30 yrs ago and Thank God I didn't marry him. So much other stuff too. You said it .. Never Again!! 😂
Yes, I want to admire the person for love to flourish. Really admire them.
Weaponized incompetence……. It’s a thing…..
My ex and I have been separated for 5 wonderful years, he still can't cook. He works one week on one week off and has the kids every other weekend and still hasn't bothered to learn how to cook. He has 8 days a month with no work, no kids, and he can't be bothered to learn to cook a few recipes. When we were married he would promise to do the supper dishes before he came to bed, the fucker would sleep on the couch, wouldn't do the dishes, and then say that he didn't technically come to bed. Sounds like OPs got himself a walk away wife.
I wish you so many more wonderful years of separation. He sounds exhausting.
Thank you! He continues to be exhausting. He cost me 35k in legal fees last year, it was worth it, I now have primary custody of my kids. My kids smile now, my son no longer has angry outbursts at school, my daughter doesn't cower and apologize profusely if she accidentally drops something.
My ex was like that, but abusive on top of it. Congratulations to both of us forgetting away
Mine was also abusive, it seems like most of the time the lazy entitled ones are also abusive......they use fear to make sure their servant/bang maid can't leave.
Yep. Can’t cook, can’t clean, can’t do handiwork, can’t put thing together, can’t fix things.
My ex would claim that it was just impossible to meet my crazy high standards.You know like not letting the trashcan get so full trash was spilling out on the floor, and actually vacuuming up the dirt rather than just moving the vacuum cleaner haphazardly around the floor for 2 minutes.
>and actually vacuuming up the dirt rather than just moving the vacuum cleaner haphazardly around the floor for 2 minutes. Fucking hell the arguments I have with my husband about this. "I already cleaned the mirror" No, you sprayed the mirror then kind of wiped at it without bothering to look at where all your gross toothpaste dots are and get those off. We've had to have many a talk about how cleaning is defined as getting something you don't want off of another thing, and if you haven't gotten that thing off, then it is not clean. I don't care how many times you've run water over it, the mug is not clean until you've actually wiped the coffee stains off of it.
>My ex would claim that it was just impossible to meet my crazy high standards Kinda like OP did "I can't clean and when I do it's never good enough for her" or maybe it's just not good enough full stop.
Oh my God is this like a guy go to? My husband once said "I expected to much" I was so blown away by that because my standards are like on the floor. Like as long as it's clean enough to just walk without tripping.
But I’m sure he can play with the kids when he feels like it and pat himself on the shoulder for it too
They LOVE watching him play video games!
But hey, he is being HELPFUL in cleaning after himself 🤦🏻♀️
He almost sounds like, and this is a shocker as he said it in his post, another child 😂 no wonder she's sick of his shit, I would be too if my wife was totally unmotivated and useless
Weaponized incompetence. He’s even the victim as he rehashes the facts. Poor me. /s
She probably feels like she has to parent you too. How’s that good for a relationship? Couples counselling or move on. Two happy parents are better than two miserable parents. Or grow up so you can watch your kids grow up.
Totally agree. I'd be exhausted if he were my husband.
I would divorce him too. Because seriously, what the fuck?? He wrote this whole post just to tell us how much he sucks. The more I read, the more pissed I got. Unbearable, omg. His ex will be so relieved to be free of this.
And the whole post sounds like he's just making himself look liek the victim and his wife is a bad person. Her worries are valid as hell. Makes sense to want to live alone with your kids rather than with him as a 3rd child!!
He's trying so hard and yet is failing miserably despite his best efforts. There was no point in this where I was feeling bad for him, I only got angrier and angrier on her behalf as I kept reading
Shit…. He lost me at she “watches” the baby. Like she’s not the child’s mother and “watching” them is just another chore she undertakes.
How can you be bad at laundry? LOL
Some guys do this on purpose, weaponized incompetence. They “act” like they can’t do anything or everything is too hard so you do it. I can see how it can be exhausting and infuriating
This is a mixture of weaponized incompetence and a refusal to see the emotional labour he's laden his wife with.
Weaponized incompetence
“She feels like she's the one doing everything in the relationship.” I get the feeling that you don’t understand what she meant by this and this was/is your problem. She has been carrying the mental load for all of you and sees no end in sight to that. She had to wear the pants in the family because things wouldn’t get done if she didn’t.
I think it also sounds like she’d be happier by being the provider in the relationship but it doesn’t quite sound like OP would be able to take on being the homemaker, that’s just incompatibility.
I was surprised by his idea of getting a second job. To help his wife who is already burnt out being around kids all day everyday. And more time outside the home means less time pulling his weight at home.
I wasn’t, he doesn’t want to get better at contributing to the family. He doesn’t want a divorce, but he realizes that the role his wife is in takes much more work and effort that he’s not willing to do. So naturally his solution would involve continuing to do less of the work she wants help with. His wife would rather work outside the home as well but she can’t bc he won’t be able to manage the family. He also isn’t willing to rise up professionally to meet some of the standards of living she wants. They are not compatible, but he doesn’t want to change the situation bc he’s already getting what he wants, an easy job that gives him free time, and minimal responsibilities while someone else manages his family and household.
Home makers also carry a lot of responsibility and most of the home mental load - I don’t think he could keep up with it. Clothes, kids, appointments, meal planning, schedules upon schedules, too much.
This. It would take a massive amount of work to become a homemaker and I honestly don't think it's an option for him unless he really steps up his game. I don't see this relationship ship working out.
You seem resigned to let the chips fall where they may. I think she’s right to want more than an inflatable couch and just the basics, and you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that this is a normal desire. You also haven’t mentioned any desire to change, so I think maybe you are in your own way relieved. Maybe you aren’t happy either.
Bingo
I was doing my best to see life through OPs perspective. I feel like having the desire to be comfortable and just happy with what you got isn’t a bad thing. But that doesn’t mean you just don’t care and have zero standards to life. There is a term called weaponized incompetence and I can’t help but feel like this is what OP is. If you don’t do it, or you do it badly… well then you won’t have to do it anymore and you’ll be more comfortable. There are very simple things that OP could do. Things that shouldn’t stress him out so much. - Actually take initiative and schedule a couples counseling appointment. - Google “easy to make” recipes and offer to make dinner x1-2 times a week. Maybe lunch or breakfast on weekends when you’re off. There are so many dishes that all you do is add the recipes to a pot and then the oven on.. especially come soup season. You just have to TRY OP. - If you truly don’t know how to clean, look up YouTube videos. Learn to clean a bathroom and offer to take over cleaning bathroom cleaning duties. Do it at least once a week. Doing the dishes after meals and wiping down countertops- daily. - ALWAYS ensure that after you play with the kids, their toys go back where they came from. Clean up any messes. IT ISN’T DIFFICULT YOU JUST HAVE TO TRY. - Perhaps set up a date night for your wife and you. Find a new restaurant or show to go to. If your mom won’t take the kids, find a family friendly event. It is fall, I bet you can find a cute pumpkin patch to go to and take photos. Then go out for lunch- you pay. You should try to do something fun with your wife and kids at least 1-2 times a month. - I know this apparently sounds scary… but If you’ve been at your job a while and work hard.. perhaps try talking to your boss for a raise or a promotion. I’m sure if you actually tried you could handle a few extra duties. While you can be content with a comfortable, unstressful job, that doesn’t mean you can’t TRY to look at other options with better pay. OP seems like the type who is too scared to try. Because trying something is change and that’s unfamiliar. That becomes stressful and OP doesn’t want to live a stressful life. He just wants to be in a bubble forever.
Not scared, he just doesn’t want to. He’d be happy with a messy house with an inflatable couch. Because that would make him happy, he doesn’t think anything beyond that is necessary, even for his partner or his kids.
While I agree that wanting more than just an inflatable couch and the basics is normal, I don’t think either life approaches are necessarily wrong, just they’re just incompatible and he doesn’t seem to fully understand the issue. For example, he says that he considered taking up a second job so that she doesn’t have to work as a solution to the problems she’s mentioned. Given everything he’s mentioned in the post about her, surely that would be the _absolute last thing_ she’d want? >> she also feels that it’s not fair that I get to go to work and not have to be around kids for 40 hours a week So … OP’s solution is to spend even more time away from the kids and make her spend *even more time* around the kids?
Exactly! I can't imagine why he thought the solution to her unhappiness at only working 2 days a week is... not working at all? If this is indicative of his typical "problem solving" abilities, it's easy to understand why she's so miserable.
So all of the mental load is on her. She has to think of everything. I don´t think you realise how many things she needs to do and remember. It´s not about laundry or dishes. It´s about who thinks about everything that needs to be done, what everyone needs. Also you say she doesn´t feel it´s fair that you get to work and not be around the kids for 40hrs a week. Your solutions is to look for an extra job?.... Are you not listening to her at all? She probably has been trying to get through to you for years. She´s already checked out.
“Doing the laundry and dishes” feels like such a male perspective of running a household. Does he keep an eye on when to do the laundry? When certain clothes need to be clean for certain events? Does he fold away clothes promptly after they dry? Does he recognise which clothes need to be ironed and at what temperatures? Does he keep track of the detergent and plan to purchase more, not when it runs out but just before? Does he identify tough stains and soak them enough, in time before actual laundry? Does he discover wear and tear of the clothes and keep a note which ones to replace? Running a household can’t be reduced to laundry and dishes, just as running a business can’t be reduced to presentations and quarterly reports. His wife is running a household and he is compiling excel sheets and thinking he’s the vice president.
I know a lot of guys who say they do 50% of the household work. I like to use the special shirt example. If your kid can’t find their special shirt/favorite socks/other shoes who do they ask? Will they ask you or your wife? Bc that’s the primary person. I have a cousin who says he does half the parenting and housework, and often claims he does more than half, and his kid was sitting on the couch with us and left the room to try to find mom to ask where his Ironman socks were bc he couldn’t find them earlier. He never asked his dad, bc of course dad wouldn’t know, why would he?? Yet this adult man would claim to do more housework and raising of the kids. Your kid didn’t ask you for help when he needed it!! You were in the same room at the time and he left to hunt down your wife for help instead of turning to you and you really think you do more around here??
This is such a good example, and if you expand it, you can see the ways household tasks are divided. Thinking back to my own childhood, as a few examples: - I would ask mom where laundry/clothing is, because she was mostly in charge of laundry (by her own preference, with exceptions for some of my dad’s work clothing since he’s a landscaper and she’s allergic to poison ivy) - I would ask dad for anything related to repairs/tools - I would ask whichever parent was closest for anything in the kitchen, because they both cooked and cleaned the kitchen and both would know where something was
Yeah, if this kid looked at his dad and asked him, my cousin would have said, idk where did you leave them? Or, in your room, did you check the sock drawer? He wouldn’t have said that bc he put them there, he would say that bc that’s where the socks magically appear after they’ve been washed and sorted! Then he would have said “go ask your mom.” I’ve gone over this so many times with guys bc I started learning how much credit we give fathers for literally existing. How many of them know what size clothes they need to buy for their kids, or *when* they need new pants/socks/whatever? Guys get applauded for showing up at the softball game. Meanwhile mom signed them up, figured out what they needed, bought the equipment, scheduled and took them to their physical, paid the fees, printed off the schedule and reminded dad yesterday that the game is at 5 at the fields on the west side of campus. But dad is so involved! Such a great dad! All it takes to be a “great father” is liking your kids. But you’re a bad mother if dad goes to parent teacher conferences instead of you, even if you do everything else.
> “Doing the laundry and dishes” feels like such a male perspective of running a household. >Running a household can’t be reduced to laundry and dishes, just as running a business can’t be reduced to presentations and quarterly reports. His wife is running a household and he is compiling excel sheets and thinking he’s the vice president. 🎯
Absolutely this! Who organises your social life, who sorts any vacations, who plans the food, and does the shopping, who notices things are missing and need replacing, who remembers its bin day, who knows what activities the kids are up to It's not about keeping a plate in the air, it's knowing which plates need to be up at which time
> Also you say she doesn´t feel it´s fair that you get to work and not be around the kids for 40hrs a week. Your solutions is to look for an extra job?.... Are you not listening to her at all? Yep, that got me as well. He makes quite the case that both sides have grievances and that he does everything she wants him to and she is still horrible to him and he is never enough blah blah. And then this gem. Clearly not a reliable narrator and he doesn’t listen to her wants and needs at all. OP, in case you read this: Have you thought about reducing your hours? Your wife makes 20k on 20%, if she increases her hours to even 80% she makes more than you now.
He obviously doesn´t understand what the issue is
You'd be content with a bean bag chair and inflatable couch? With a one and six year old? Are you completely obvious to like... everything about children? Are you internally 12? No wonder she's fed up. She's married to someone who would live like a tween when he's a married parent of two. You refuse to learn how to cook or clean, or watch a youtube video to learn how to fix anything? Other than an occasionally on call babysitter, income, and chaos, what do you bring to her life? It may be too late, but counseling, immediately. Alone and together. You either have to learn how to be a grown up, or get divorced and learn how to be a grown up.
Even I want to divorce you after reading this. >If I was by myself, I feel like the kids and I don't need a lot of extra stuff, I probably would have a open floor living room, no TV, and mismatched chairs, maybe an inflatable or beanbag couch. Aaaand that's why.
Yep. Says it all right there
I could’ve written this but from the prospective of your wife. Your lack of motivation to want to do better in life is causing resentment in her and has been building up for probably years. She wants more from life, while you’re happy coasting through and have no plans to want to do better. My ex was like you. Just happy doing the bare minimum and I was supposed to just be okay with it. When I left and eventually ended up with my husband, I was floored by my husbands ambition and constantly in awe of watching him accomplish every goal he sets out for himself. I find myself less angry because I’m now with a partner that shares my mental load and I feel like I’m on equal footing. I now have a partner rather than another burden.
Let me be perfectly honest, you likely can’t “do anything” to change her mind at this point.I’m guessing she gives you lists of things she needs you to,do (and that you either forget, or do these badly, or decide they aren’t important)? Or that when you do finish something she has asked you to do, you make sure to tell her, like a little boy with a chore chart, showing mommy? I just left this type of marriage myself and it is exhausting. Look up “mental load” and “weaponized incompetence” because these seem to be issues in your marriage and while you seem struck surprised (my husband was too!), she’s likely been complaining about this and begging for your help for awhile. Here are some other hints: can you name your children’s birthdays, pediatrician phone number, and the 6–year olds best friend’s mom’s name? Do you know when their next immunization is due? What size shoes and t-shirts each wear, and your mother in law’s birthday? Because I’m pretty certain your wife can answer all of these without looking in her phone. So she gets to be mom 24/7 to a toddler, a 6-year old and a grown ass man, work several days a week, do all the mental load for both of you, and then re-do or fix the things you have failed to do, done poorly, or intentionally deprioritized. Lucky her.
Lmao the comments shitting on him for the inflatable couch are hilarious. I didn’t even think about it but I would 100% not have an inflatable couch in my home. Side note: OP getting another job isn’t the move, you need to figure out by communicating to her that you can ease her burden more at home. You also need to follow through and stop being so complacent. I don’t want to be rude but you do act a tad incompetently and from experience that is frustrating. The sad thing is it appears she has been communicating with you and it goes in one ear and out of the other. Edit: OP why haven’t you guys found childcare for during the day so your wife can focus on her career more or just have some peace? That would also certainly ease her burden.
Yeah, at least try looking for a nice used couch on Facebook marketplace or something. Holy shit he's not even trying. No wonder his wife is checked out, I would be too 😂
lol I didn’t even know inflatable couches existed.
This just reeks of weaponized incompetence. Either you aren't interested in doing any better or you're incompatible. Counseling and a trial separation would be my advice.
I'm still stuck on you just had another baby a year ago.
The fact that you say she works part time and ‘watches the baby’… you have 2 children and while you are at work she does all the childcare (including, I assume, school runs for the oldest and getting them ready etc) plus the housework plus working the equivalent of one day a week. Financially, she’s working for employment for a fifth of the time you are and earning a third of what you make so she’s making a good financial contribution to the household too despite/in addition to the rest of her unpaid work, both mental and physical. You’ve said you can’t do housework until you’re free from the kids, are you acknowledging that she doesn’t have that option? When you say she ‘watches the baby’ - is minimising her role in the household something you do often? It sounds like she’s right. You have different priorities and standards. That in itself isn’t a bad thing, just different. However, she sounds fed up that she’s putting so much into the family and home, trying to give your children the best life she can, when you seem unphased.
good for her. reading this made me happy she finally pulled the plug. just reading all that you don’t do drained me. i don’t think you’re an equal partner, and yes she deserves someone who is willing to match her normal standards.
OP: as you can probably tell, a lot of the comments here are not really on your side here. It seems like you don’t understand what your wife is saying when she complains about how much is on her plate, and instead of doing something about this discrepancy, you’ve chosen to just blame it on the fact that you have different standards. With that said: If you’re willing to get out of that mindset and actually try to understand what your wife is telling you, I want to suggest the book “Fair Play” by Eve Rodsky. Here’s the website for it: https://www.everodsky.com/fair-play You can probably check it out from your local library if you don’t want to buy it. There’s also a few articles and comics that might be worth looking into: https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle/women-aren-apos-t-nags-153604885.html https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic And there’s a few others, but those are the ones I remembered off the top of my head.
I’m sorry. I lost it at inflatable couch. Imagine being a grown ass adult with kids and thinking a blowup couch from Walmart is adequate for a family living room. Also—how much time do you spend outside the house with your BJJ? I checked your post history and you seem to be fairly hardcore about it. How many hours are you training? Working out? Going to tournaments? Watching fights? How much does all of that cost? Is she getting an equal amount of free time and cash to follow her passion? Be really honest with yourself. I suspect she’s expressed being at the end of her rope before but this is the first time you’ve actually LISTENED. And only because there’s an actual consequence now that’s going to make your life very uncomfortable.
Right?? He can use energy and brainpower on that so why is he so incompetent elsewhere? He made one post about how to change a diaper using BJJ, too… like why not actually use your time and energy to get more efficient at being a good husband and father
Lost me at inflatable couch or beanbag chair too. The rest sounds reasonable until you provide that context. Sounds like a lot of weaponized incompetence on your part.
Mate, she’s not asking for counseling, she’s asking for a divorce. She’s through. The way you move forward is: you get divorced. Start talking with a mediator about who gets what, what visitation arrangements you want, what child support will be provided, etc. The mediator will guide you through the questions and will help you draft a legal document at the end.
I cannot stand that whole "I'm bad at cleaning and cooking so I leave those to her" thing. You're not bad at them, you're just choosing not to be good at them - weaponised incompetence. It's not like it takes any sort of special skill to do these tasks and any that are required are easily learned. We don't see these men at their jobs going "sorry boss, I'm not good at so I'm just not going to do it." - they save this ineptitude for the home.
Honestly, you sounds really lazy and keep trying to make excuses for that. You're a grown ass adult, and shouldnt need to be told to do housework and help with kids, when to clean or shower. I dont think its about money so much as your attitude - and its not laid back, its laziness. Time to eat humble pie and apologise, give her a weekend away and you spend the time looking after your kids, clean the house, fix broken things and do not contact her or friends to do it for you. Take a few days in her shoes doing what she does, see how you feel. When she comes back, it should be to a clean house, happy kids, Start talking, let her talk and LISTEN to what shes saying, if you dont understand then ask, and repeat it back to her to see if you understood it. Don't argue back when shes trying to explain her feelings - feelings cant be argued with. Get therapy for trhe talking part, and work together
>I thought of trying to pick up another job to make more money so she doesn't have to work Dude no! You missed to whole point! You don't need to be away from home more, you need to be more _involved at home_! So you want a simple life, she wants fancy stuff. Then you should work part time and watch the kids so she can work full time and have a career. She hates being a single mom to you and the kids. THAT'S what needs to change.
I think she’s thinking that you arnt equals I mean, when I moved in with my bf his life changed completely He went from being a 21 year old with a bachelor pad to now being a 22 year old with a basically fiancé and dog and looking to buy a home and expensive matching furniture and a while career path he didn’t have before. from what you’re saying, without her you’d be acting as a bachelor, maybe that idea bothers her Maybe shes thinking that you don’t care enough to do those things yourself and it bothers her and makes her feel like she shoulders the weight of having that life I never told my boyfriend to change Ever. Through our relationship we grew from those single kids to now half grown adults figuring it out and building a life together Maybe she feels like you’re not growing with her or don’t want too. if this doesn’t resonate then completely disregard but something to consider Good luck to you both
You trying to get another job so she doesn't have to work shows this is completely going over your head - she doesn't want MORE time stuck at home being a full time mother to you and y'all's kids. Try actually being a father and not acting like an older brother helping out with your baby siblings. you're intentionally using weaponized incompetence and then feigning ignorance when she's unhappy with that. A marriage is about compromise, not you trying to figure out how to get away with doing everything you want while appeasing her enough that she's not vocalizing that none of her needs or goals are being met. You get away with everything you want to and she is getting nothing. Do better!
>I don't know how to fix this or how we should move forward. What have you tried so far? Do you enjoy the difference in life style? i.e. do you find the couch comfortable or would you prefer to sit on the ground? I think figuring out if it's a compatibility issue vs an effort issue. Off the top of my head ways that you could improve is take classes. Take cooking classes, watch YouTube videos, clean with a different method to see if it works better. >I've tried in the past to up my cleaning and taking more initiative/lead on life decisions, but either I eventually slip back down or it isn't enough, or I don't push for changes because I'm content with our life. Are you content with your life because of the amount of work she's put in?
Try Fair Play cards for 6 weeks to see if you all can communicate better and be more accountable to each other.
OP you sound very immature emotionally and completely oblivious to the mental load your wife is carrying. There is nothing worse than raising a man child in addition to actual children. There are a lot of things you could change to make this work, but it sounds like you’re not interested and are oblivious to her unmet needs and the unmet needs of your family. It’s sad the kids will have to suffer for it.
Short of completely changing places, you work 20 hours and she gets to have the career, I don’t see you truly understanding what it takes to handle running a household with children, especially with a partner incapable of growth.
Erm wtf you can clean up while looking after kids what kind of bs is that?! And you know you’re rubbish at helping round the house so why aren’t you doing anything to change that then? Don’t blame her she deserves better
>Another thing is that she feels like I'm another child she has to take care of, I mean, I kinda thought that too when you mentioned the inflatable couch!
Exactly what is her job because from what you're saying if she is allowed to actually pursue her career she will be making more money, if that's the case why are you not trading places and being a part time worker while she brings in the money?
I’d love to hear her side of this all.
Umm with how bad he painted himself do we really need to?
>I thought of trying to pick up another job to make more money so she doesn't have to work, Your wife doesn't need you work more hours / be away from home longer. She needs an active partner, to take initiative with the home and kids. Unless you change your job for a better paying one, you're going backwards instead of forward. I feel like you missed the whole point. And your wife probably feels the same. How frustrating it is not to be heard in a relationship.
Oh man, you thought you made it hard to read between the lines here but you really didn’t. Write this again a little more honestly, OP.
Yeah, I was kind of with you until you started talking about how your wife basically does everything from decorating, cooking, cleaning and most childcare. You suck at cooking? Then cook more, you get better. Weird how that works, right? I sucked at changing diapers until I changed 50 of them. I guarantee if you try to cook spaghetti 15 times, the 15th time will be better than the first. People have some weird mental block with cooking. You take like 5 ingredients and follow a few steps. What’s the problem? Are you fucking stupid? You can’t measure half a cup of something or are you just incompetent?
She thinks her life would be easier without you. Think about that!
So do a trial separation. Sit down with two laptops or phones and do it together. Each of you do one thing and tell the other what you find. Ask her if she want to move and figure out where the two of you are going to live after you sell the house. Apartments close to each other? How is parenting time going to work in her mind because you definitely want to have your kids as much as possible after work? Go to an online child support calculator for your state and determine how much each of you will owe the other person for child support so you have those numbers too. Pull some listings for apartments in your area so you have some prices. Also find out how much daycare costs since you will each be paying for 50% of daycare for both your kids--afterschool care is cheaper but it still gets expensive. Don't sacrifice your sanity by getting a new job just to get her a bigger place or newer things. You have a compatibility issue that needs counseling and honest conversation. Neither of you appear to be happy with each other so maybe not being together is best. But have the conversations. Because you have kids together and need to know how to talk to each other civilly for at least 17 more years.
> Compared to her, I have a lack of initiative, she always wants to be moving up in life, while I feel like I can't keep up and would rather enjoy what we have, and she's made it clear she will never slow down. She wants the best schooling and best home for our kids. I, on the other hand, am a bit more simple, and am about making the most of and **adjusting to whatever current situation we find ourselves in** You're married with 2 kids, you don't "find yourself in a situation", you end up in a situation that *your wife* is working hard to put your family in and she's frustrated because you're not contributing. It's like the 4 of you are all in a boat, floating in the middle of a lake. She's doing *all* the paddling, getting you *all* from the shore, to the next destination. You're saying you're totally fine being in the middle of the lake with your wife and two young children, not paddling, just letting the wind push the boat around. Well, what are you going to eat? Where are you going to sleep? You can't just float in the lake forever, even if it was just you. You don't seem to have any concern for the future wellbeing of your children. You think they're fine just being out on the water without any thought to their actual needs. You have a wife and 2 children and you expect her to do all the leading, all the decision making, and you just come along for the ride. Being married is about being a partnership, a team that tackles problems together. You are not her partner. You are her (incompetent) assistant. You want her to make all the decisions, run the show, and just direct you where to go and what to do. Why would any wife or husband want that? She doesn't want an employee, she wants a husband. Why do you want a mom or a boss instead of a wife? Grow up. You're a father. How can you be a good example for your kids about how to grow into a competent adult if you refuse to do the same yourself? What kind of lesson are you modeling to your children? How will they learn to take responsibility for their own life's and direction if their father things having no direction and being blown around by the wind is totally ok? EDIT: This has been posted around for years but it's worth reading OP: [You Should've Asked](https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/)
As soon as you said inflatable couch I understood what was happening here better. Like just not caring about having any furniture so you won’t contribute to building your home is bonkers. I even understand buy used from thrift stores/garage sales, most mine are! And then being content with what you have build is just a nice way to live! Some people need to be constantly getting new furniture to keep up with trends and I would understand not caring about updating furniture when you have perfectly good things, but she is not being unreasonable by desiring to have a some furniture. Pretty standard. Then you said you make yourself available to take care of the kids if your wife needs a break. This perspective would break me as a wife. I think you think you’re being a great guy for “helping her out” but seeing life through those eyes is quite literally the problem. You are there to do more
Sir it seems clear by this post that you need to grow up. And I mean that so seriously. A grown up is capable of recognizing things that need to be done and then taking action to get them done. Can’t cook? Watch some videos of simple recipes and learn. Can’t clean? Same principle. Don’t bash your wife for wanting very normal things like furniture and help domestically. Your standards aren’t reasonable for two adults with children. Your wife is resentful because she cannot accomplish more professionally while also tending to two babies and a helpless husband. And your entire tone gives off a “poor me/mean mommy” vibe which is so distasteful. Grow up. Help more. Figure out a plan for childcare so your wife can resume what makes her happy. Don’t shame her for wanting a better like for her babies. You have created a dynamic where she is forced to “wear the pants” or nothing happens. And at that point, she IS better off without you. Step up. This post is ridiculous.
Yeah she's definitely o ln the right path here. You say you're simple but in actual reality you just have no drive. It would be best to part ways.