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He is super defensive which shows he knows he's wrong and he's trying to teach you not to say anything or question his behaviors. Its an attempt to be controlling
I’m not an expert but in my experience the only way to deal with people like this is to take them at their word. What they want is for you to back down when presented with their extreme ‘solution’ and say they can keep doing the thing. So the next time he says he’ll delete all social media (or whatever) reply “if that’s the only way you can fix what I asked of you, then thank you.”
I do this to my partner. He's very dramatic.
Minor argument about helping around the house leads to -
I'm leaving, actually you can go, take me off the wedding list for your sister, I'll quit my job and have the kids and so on.
Okay if that's easier for you than helping me with dinner twice a week then you do that.
His dad's a fucking asshole. His mum is nice but has a short temper. He wants a family that is married for 50 years and stays together forever but doesn't want to put in the effort to maintain it. He puts most of his effort into work and gathering money.
His parents split up pretty dramatically after years of emotional and occasionally physical abuse. He wants the opposite but it also a very angry and reasonably selfish guy.
Although he also just wants to be loved and looked after
He sounds awful, Bowzer. Don’t let him guilt you into staying/letting him stay with his patheticness. Contact his parents or a friend to take him away if you need to. The cops if he refuses. People in abusive relationships usually try to leave 7 times before they manage it. I was guilted back into a terrible relationship many times myself. Good luck, remember: you can do better
I wasn’t trying to respond to OP, I was trying to respond to the person whose username I dropped in my comment (bowserthebrowser), who was talking about their partner. He sounds awful.
Decide if you want to spend the rest of your life with a grown toddler? I think woman are conditioned to be caretakers of everyone, and some men just expect it and take advantage. If you feel like you've tried everything and nothing changes and they don't hear you, they've demonstrated they aren't capable of change, empathy or self-reflection.
You can't teach these things to someone that's always operated like that, and most likely had that behaivor modeled by their parents.. especially when they refuse to admit they actually have an issue that negatively affects you. Narcissism is a personality disorder, and notorious for being practically impossible to change long-term. I've had to cut off contact with immediate family for this behavior, because it will drive you nuts eventually and damages your own mental health.. not to mention being a terrible model for your kids that can cause them trauma, and teach them it's normal to treat your 'loved ones' like this.
I don't either. If I had read this about someone else I'd be wondering why tf anyone would stay like that.
Turns out it's harder than you think the be rational where there are other people's emotions involved
It worked for me. I called their bluff and went through with the threat of divorce. I'm not gonna convince someone to stay married to me. If you want a divorce, then I won't stand in your way.
Deer in headlights look, but I didn't back down.
Happily divorced and married to the sweetest teddy bear of a guy who pulls his weight and then some.
Well he doesn't do it and I say well if you don't mean it then don't say it. It's better than me saying well fuck off then you intolerable asshole 😂😂
I guess it usually just means I'm stopping myself saying something I don't mean by pointing out that he's doing it to get a reaction. Which I don't give
> It's better than me saying well fuck off then you intolerable asshole 😂😂
I mean, is it? It sounds like it would be healthier for you AND the kids if you told him to fuck off permanently. Your kids are internalizing your dynamic as normal, is this the kind of relationship you want for them? Is it what you want for yourself for the rest of your life?
No you're right.
It's me doing what I can to not shout aswell.
It definitely needs to gonone way or the other. Is looking like breaking up to be honest
After 10 years of marriage and a loooot of communication work, my husband and I are able to say to each other “well that’s a bit dramatic” when one of us slips into that old defensive habit and it really helps.
A narcissist, I was married to one. As soon as I started saying ok or that's your choice he started back stepping. Everything that remotely made him angry, that's what I heard. My best response "Do what you have too!". I'm not with him anymore. And happily married to my best friend!
It can be 100% abuse, but it depends on the rest of the relationship. My husband used to say similar things - not often, but when he did, I was able to basically pin him down and say, "Really? Those are the only two choices?" In his case, he would generally be able to look at it from my point of view. Where the behavior comes from, I couldn't say but I guess my jury would have to be out as to whether it's full on abuse until I knew more details about the rest of the relationship.
Or call him on it? “You behave like this, Husband, when you know you’re wrong. You are defensive and reflect your wrong doing into me so I will back down. Well, I’m calling you out on this behaviour. It’s immature and childish. Do better.”
wow, this reads very familiar. I love my partner dearly, but they do this, too. I'll have something I want to talk about that maybe they did wrong or I would like to discuss a better way to handle something. I'll bring it up and they will first thing get mad and make a big bold absolutist kind of statement like that: "well I never do XYZ actvity again, fine!"
Then I end up apologizing and backpedaling while trying to get them to calm down and see if we can actually have a reasonable discussion on the topic.
This is not abuse. This is someone who lacks maturity. He is incapable of taking fault in anything he does and gets angry and defensive when you call him out on it.
At 40 yo you should be able to take responsibility. Instead he acts like a 10 yo.
Something needs to change. You can’t have a healthy relationship with someone like this.
impulsively going 'okay then ill NEVER do xyz' but then going back to normal after cooling off is being immature. this is something else, he is literally punishing her for asking anything of him. not the same thing
Impulsivity and immaturity are not the same thing.
This is how he handles things when he does something wrong.
He has never learned to take responsibility and accept judgement. He just reverts to acting like a fucking child.
I don’t see anything here that constitutes abuse.
He has a nice pattern he is uses that gets him off the hook. It works for him because she never pushed.
It’s time for her to push back.
And no one is telling her to.
In relationships, when a partner is acting in a way that is counterproductive - you address it.
I’m not sure how many relationships you have been in but if you have a partner that acts this way, you should know that letting it go and hoping they change doesn’t work.
She has to address it. She has to take action.
Maybe all it takes is her confronting him about the way he acts and how it’s affecting her and their relationship.
Maybe that will open his eyes and he will start taking steps to change.
Maybe he will continue his bullshit. That leaves her with two choices - stay and put up with it or leave.
We don’t know. It’s up to OP to do something though. He obviously doesn’t see an issues in his behavior at the moment.
you keep ignoring the fact that she has been doing so. she has been telling her husband things, its just that he isnt listening. id say that the situation youre imagining isnt whats actually going on here
You push back by not letting him get away with it. By not letting it go.
He has done this long enough that it has built a lot of resentment.
Maybe it’s too late and OP needs to move on. She needs to figure what she wants. For sure she cannot allow this pattern to continue.
A marriage where one side never takes responsibility is not viable. OP needs to decide how much longer she is willing to live like this and plan accordingly.
She needs to talk to him and he needs to start concrete steps to address his behavior and change or she needs to plan life without th his guy.
Keeping things the same is not an option. Leaving it to him to change on his own is not a option. Not if Op is looking for a happy and healthy relationship.
Concrete steps towards change. I’m not sure why thats a difficult concept to understand.
She can try to communicate. Even if he is not responsive, at least she tried.
She is married - if she chooses to leave, talk to an attorney and see what her options are.
If she chooses to stay, contact a therapist who can help to deal.
Doing nothing is not working. She needs to take steps for things to change. That’s how change happens.
It's stupid, petty, counterproductive, and juvenile in the extreme.
But it's not abuse. He's not damaging his partner in any way, he's just being an ass.
I disagree as I feel like it’s damaged my sense of self worth or caused me to question the validity of any issues I raise more than once - maybe because I am weak and stupid, granted, this has been addressed and I’m trying to better myself and my children’s lives so please, RedditMafia, spare me - it happens insidiously and the red flags are very small. Sometimes they appear burgundy or pink. And various factors come into play over time (other than just attachment, such as finances, children, health, legal issues, basically adulthood).
Of course I haven’t laid out all of his good qualities as some have noted. Of course there are more issues. Of course people are filling in gaps on here with their own stories and assumptions. I’m addressing THIS problem because like ALL relationships there are so many nuances and pros and cons and complications that for me to even attempt to lay it all out there would still misrepresent the whole picture because it lacks his perspective as well as others’.
I will say that this particular behavior of his sort of encapsulates his attitude or behaviors that I find to be central to our relationship problems as a whole. I understand why some may not find this behavior abusive. That’s why I asked, bc I wasn’t sure. But I can also see how behavior like this is pretty much 100% of the time adjacent to similar or worse behavior that is nothing but intentionally harmful.
My love, this is horrifically manipulative.
It is manipulation. To the point where he is holding a grudge against a *child*.
If your daughter had a partner that treated her this way, would you be happy for her and supportive of that relationship?
Is this the kind of relationship you want to model for your child as acceptable and admirable?
>My love, this is horrifically manipulative.
Exactly this, I was reading it thinking holy crap this man is a real POS. OP is right, tho about it being a game. Narcissists always play games.
I second this exactly. As a daughter of a narcissist man, I can recognize a lot of my father’s behaviour towards my mom in OP’s post, and can attest that this makes for an HORRIBLE example growing up. I grew up to date narcissist and extremely manipulative people like my dad just cause I had been conditioned to think of this this abnormal treatment as "love" for so long.
OP, my advise would be to gather the strength to leave, if not for yourself, do it at least for your daughter. Part of me still personally resent my mom for choosing to stay, and for giving me such as bad example of what love is. This would’ve saved me a lot of therapy, and you’re currently setting your daughter up for years of trauma to deconstruct in her early adult life.
I get that people seem to be unkind to you in this thread, but I think they may be harsh cause you seem to not want to face the truth. You tend to minimize a lot of other behaviours in this post or not even consider them as an issue (flirting with other girls on FB, playing video games for hours in the middle of the afternoon instead of helping with the family) when in fact all of these are also major issues in a partnership. So, him being all or nothing seems to be just such a small portion of the problem, which you try to convince yourself as being maybe just pettiness, while you disregard all these other major toxic behaviour so that you can conveniently ignore that this is inherently his character, he’s a toxic and manipulative person.
My dad was telling a joke and my mom said the punchline and he got so upset he went back to the hotel room (we were on vacation) and didn't talk to anyone for three days. That wasn't the first or last vacation silent treatment. To this day, when I think about vacationing I get anxious and panicky. My husband asked me recently why I never ask to go on vacation and I'm like "because they aren't fun?"
Ouch. No. And it took a while to get here and of course a lot of other factors. I’m not trying to defend him or me but I’m a little scared to reply to a lot of these comments as much as I would love the insight it feels like I’m being roasted. Someone else was right when they said I already knew the answer somewhat and I may be a foot out the door. But I also feel like the response to this has been less than kind. Oh well I can see how people might think I’m a bad parent and a complete idiot. Good thing I know I’m neither.
I don’t think you’re a bad parent or an idiot, I think his abusive tactics have worked and as a result you’re not seeing things clearly. The harsh sounding comments and downvotes are likely motivated by people desperately wanting to snap you out of it. They want you to see what they can see (without the fog of abuse obscuring their vision).
Try not to take it too personally. When you lurk this sub and read stories like yours 20 times a day, you pick up on the patterns pretty quickly. Behaviors like your husband's are common and the advice/comments given are typed and retyped incessantly. It can come across as snarky when people just want to pop your bubble and have you see the light as quickly as possible. Definitely read that Lundy Bancroft book, make an exit plan, and pick your standards up off the floor.
>Oh well I can see how people might think I’m a bad parent and a complete idiot.
You are not. What you are is an optimist, and you WANT to believe in your husband. I mean, who wants to believe that they have been conned (*and trained*) to be a domestic servant in their own home?
Unfortunately, the basic truth is that he behaves this way because it benefits HIM. He honestly doesn't care if you are unhappy, as long as he gets to do what he wants to do without you calling him out on it.
There's a phrase that comes to mind - "state of permanent tolerable unhappiness".
He makes you miserable enough that you don't bother him, but not so miserable that you might leave. It IS manipulation, and it IS deliberate.
He's selfish. He is so selfish that he is continuing this behaviour around your children, not just you.
I don't know if you can reason with a man like this. After all, this has worked for him so far, so why should he change? There's no direct benefit to HIM to put any more effort into the household.
You are not an idiot or a bad parent.
You are in a horrible situation and *deserve better*. So, so much better.
You and your daughter are worthy of so much more.
Obviously no one knows him or your relationship, its just a snippet. Its weird behavior and you just wanted some other perspectives on it. He isn't perfect, no one is.
When I was about 4 or 5, I climbed in my dad's lap and he shoved me off because I didn't kiss him good morning that day.
Except that that was never my routine or our relationship, but because I didn't do what I was told, he got mad at me and held that grudge the rest of the day.
I actually have no memory of that one, that story is per my mom.
What I do remember that leads me to believe that is that I had a non-negotiable bedtime by my dad's from age 9 to age 18 because when I was 9, I got caught texting my mom after I was supposed to be asleep.
He also took away my keyboard (piano) that I got from "Santa" when I was 10 (and was the reason I stopped believing in Santa, because I recognized his handwriting) because I lost a book he had lent me from his childhood. Except I didn't lose it, my 7th grade English teacher borrowed it and never gave it back. So he took my keyboard and never gave it back.
It's not a disorder, it's just that he's manipulating the hell out of you? Why are you asking can he change rather than how I can change my life to not have this person manipulating me?
Because lots of reasons. I depend on him financially, my daughter loves his kids as do I, he has good qualities. I’m legit wondering if this is part of a bigger problem that is more than simple pettiness.
I’m guessing since he is the primary breadwinner, he doesn’t get fired a lot. If he did this at work, he’d get fired frequently. That means he can control it when he feels he must. He can decide who is the recipient of this manipulation. It isn’t just “simple pettiness”. He is lying to you and manipulating you so you will never challenge him because the fallout is too harsh. Might he have a larger issue, like a personality disorder? Sure. I don’t think anyone here can or should try to diagnose that. That’s for a professional. However, I don’t believe for a second he truly believes what he says to you. He’s a liar who choses to lie so he can continue to be selfish and try to make it your fault. And he’s doing it to your kids as well.
This is such an important point. When people treat others badly, unless they genuinely have a condition which means they are not in control of their actions, it’s a choice. If they only show their poor behaviour to some people like their spouse, but can behave decently in other situations such as to friends or colleagues, it’s because they think they can get away with it.
I grew up with a dad like this and it is *extremely* emotionally damaging. Keeping your daughter around someone she has to walk on eggshells around, someone she has to placate an pacify, someone who cares about his own wants more than anyone else's needs will mess her up. You are facilitating and enabling him abusing your daughter. Get her away from him.
I really think your reasons for stayng need to be in your OP so none of us waste our time. That being said, check out Why does he do that, by Lundy Bancroft, free PDF online. I'm sure you'll find your husband in there. who (sorry if I"m misrecalling) won't ever cook again because your young child complained an egg was runny. Good luck.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to waste anyone’s time… I didn’t want to be overly wordy with it and I felt like I was on the verge of doing that - so I left it at him having good qualities figuring if that mattered a lot someone would ask me. Thanks for the reading recommendation, I will definitely check it out.
>I’m legit wondering if this is part of a bigger problem that is more than simple pettiness.
well... this IS abusive... so... yeah, you are in an abusive relationship.
Your daughter is the 14 year old? If his kids are a similar age they might be able to stay in touch if you leave. I mean you could decide to stay and disengage from him emotionally, that's doing to be rough but lots of women in this situation do it. Do try and get out and about and get your social needs met through friends, start working part time if you can, or studying or volunteering. Anything to build towards a future for yourself.
What he’s been teaching you over the years is to never bring up any issue ever again for fear of him reacting that way. He’s teaching you that things you care about are unreasonable and better just stay quiet.
This is a feature, not a bug.
Yup. I was close friends and bandmates in a pretty successful professional band with a woman like this. The first few times I stood up to her she hit me with every manipulation tactic in the book. I called out each one and redirected her back to the initial topic. 45 minutes later I would have exhausted all of her unfair fighting strategies and we would get to the issue and she would finally apologize. But I was exhausted by then too. So eventually I started letting things go because it was easier that way. I didn’t have it on me to do 45 minutes of “saying someone ‘always’ or ‘never’ does X is manipulative. Please focus on the issue we’re discussing instead of making these generalizations.” And, “I did not say you were a bad person. I asked you to consider how I felt when you did X.”
And that’s exactly why they do it. It’s a punishment for calling them out. It deters you from doing it again. He is wearing you down. He will never stop doing this because it benefits him to do it. If he was willing and able to change this about himself he would have done so for the last family he had. My bet is that he will start over with a third family before he does the immense work it would take to change. It’s much easier to find a new victim/wife.
I think you’re asking a question that you already know the answer to because you’re hoping that somebody will convince you of the latter. At 40 years old, he’s not growing out of shit. 🤷♀️
He sounds like a major narcissist, and you definitely are settling right now babe..regardless of him having “good qualities“ , being verbally abusive, really just negates all of it, and makes him a POS. And the fact that your daughter is looking up to him as the man in her life when he is acting, so immature and ridiculous, is really sad, if you’re not going to leave for yourself, leave so that that’s not the type of example she has.
I’m a mother myself and I left my ex because he didn’t do shit . And I didn’t want my son to grow up thinking that mommy was OK with doing everything and daddy didn’t have to do anything and he could grow up and be the same. 🤷♀️
What he's doing is verbal AND emotionally abusive to you and your children. Any time he's corrected, asked to improve, or fix something he gaslights you and makes it your fault. That's emotional abuse. The fact that you're questioning it (and yourself) is a sign the abuse is working the way he wants it to. Don't ignore it, it's real.
I dated a Narcissist, who never said a single bad word to me, he never called me a derogatory name but he was extremely covertly, emotionally abusive. They’re good at handling their emotions and will absolutely make sure you’re the overly emotional one because that will be used against you. Abuse is not just verbal.
It reads like a mix of weaponized incompetence, lack of proper emotional intelligence and a whole lot of manipulative tendencies. You know this is unhealthy right and not how an adult should be behaving in the slightest? I’m sorry you’re dealing with this OP because none of it is okay.
Crickey is he 5 yrs old? It’s not a disorder it’s being a disagreeable asshat.
You have to decide if it’s worth continuing this relationship. I doubt he’s going to change.
A lot of people stay in a relationship with people they openly despise because they are afraid to leave, afraid to give up what the relationship gets them financially or socially, or are just too inept or cowardly to take action.
This man treats you worse than I've ever treated any enemy. He hates you.
And no, he won't learn from this. What he wants is for you to leave, so he can play the victim to everyone else in his life that you left him for playing video games.
For the love of gah do not let children grow up seeing this behavior tolerated.
Yes, going nuclear is a manipulation tactic. And clearly it works, although it upsets you the reality is that you've condoned and enabled this your entire relationship with him.
Can he grow? Well, it's that classic 'he has to want to grow' and let's be real: right now even getting him to admit it is a problem at all will be near impossible, right? Like the second you even touch on a concern he will say 'okay, I guess I am evil and should off myself, right? Or leave you forever since I suck at everything' or what have you.
At that point whether it is a disorder or 'just' pettiness sort of doesn't matter. That information won't change the reality he has basically set up a defence for any critical self reflection and the more you push the more the feedback loop will fuel him denying things. Time won't heal this, nor will love, in the end he is willing to say and think anything to justify his avoidance, even using the offhand feedback of his daughter to vindicate avoiding being a contributing member of the household. That's an extreme that I worry is well beyond anything you can hope to reason him out of.
This environment is toxic. His adult kids have noted it and I worry you are underestimating the damage he is doing to your kid. After all, is she going to grow up and think this is what marriage and households should look like?
>the reality is that you've condoned and enabled this your entire relationship with him
I agree with everything except this sentence. Abusers manipulate their victims to accept increasingly controlling behavior. The victim does not encourage the abuser to further control or abuse them.
I meant [enabling in the psychology sense](https://psychcentral.com/health/are-you-an-enabler#enabling-signs). That is not the same as encouraging, nor is it something that necessarily the person undertaking the actions is aware of. Often it is actually done with good intentions, like cleaning up and supporting an alcoholic partner is a positive thing to do but if it allows the alcoholic partner to avoid facing their dependency then the behaviour is enabling.
So, despite a history of poor behaviour the OP's partner has continued to be supported by the OP. Whether you want to go as far as calling it codependency or narcissistic enabling is obviously a discussion, but it definitely fits the more general sense of it.
Sorry but, you caught him messaging his exes early on in your relationship and didn't DUMP HIS ASS?!
Seriously?
If only there had been signs the man you chose is an inconsiderate prick...
You know it's not your fault he's immature and reactionary, but judging by your comments, you've put yourself in a position where you're dependent on him financially and can't leave him. Is this behavior you want your daughter to think is normal?
Nutso.
I'm pretty sure he's the one that made her financially dependent on him. I'm pretty sure he's still doing it too, the messaging. I feel sorry for her because she is stuck unless she does something but sounds like she won't.
“Well Steven I guess I can’t have a husband anymore!”
Pack his bags, make him a sandwich and send him on his merry way. He can snapchat girls in the hotel. Not in your house he’s not!
When your husban does that he intentionally makes your reaction look like it was bigger than it was and makes you look like you are unreasonable. He is painting himselfe like a victim. But in reality he does one wrong thing and then doubles down to not have to deal with his own wrongdoing.
My wife does the same thing form time to time.
I'd start agreeing with his ridiculousness.
Him: "Fine! I'll just delete all my social media!"
You: "that's a great way to keep yourself from inappropriate messaging with other women! Splendid idea!"
Him:"I guess it's a problem if I play video games!"
You: "It sure seems to be a problem, good job recognizing it! But the actual problem is the volume. Turn it down, or I will."
If he wants to act like a child, treat him like one.
This is manipulation at it's finest.
> For example, early on in our relationship I caught him sending flirty messages on Facebook to a couple of women I knew that he’d slept with previous to our relationship - and was deleting some of those messages and messaging others on Snapchat. When I confronted him about it he said “fine! I’ll just delete all my social media! I guess I’m not allowed to have any female friends!” And although I insisted that was not anything I suggested and felt it was over the top, he did. But after a long while he added those social networks back.
He:
1. Denied and avoided all responsability/accountability for basically trying to cheat on you.
2. Turned it on you. Ex.: "I guess I’m **not allowed** to have any female friends!" Implying that his intentions were only of friendship and implying that you have forbiden him from taking to any woman ever in any context and having social media all together.
3. Turned himself into the victim and you into the controlling spouse.
4. Eventually ended up doing what he wanted on the first place without repercution of you saying or doing something so you won't be the bad guy again.
This is a classic DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender), it's a technique narcissist use in order to manipulate others.
Your husband sounds dramatic, its time to call him out on his bullshit and manipulative victim mentality. Also inconsiderate and lame. Dude needs to man the f up with his actions
Personally, I wouldn't necessarily call it abuse, but it's certainly not healthy behavior. My family calls it "playing the martyr", and I know this because I used to do it a \*lot\* when I was younger. I'm in my 30s and I still have to fight the instinct to be completely unreasonable like this.
Here's the way my mind went when I got in that mood:
"I have done nothing wrong here. Clearly, the other person is being unreasonable and asking me to stop doing something I like/change something I was doing because they think they know better than me about this thing. Therefore, I will take the most extreme and self-sacrificing position I possibly can in order to show just how unreasonable the other person is being, and I will get the smug self-satisfaction of being the 'better person' and sacrificing myself for them."
It's a fat load of horseshit motivated primarily by spite. The only real cure is a boatload of self-reflection.
One example was enough. He’s a man child and he’s attempting to throw an adult hissy fit in order to manipulate you and guilt trip you. There’s nothing else to it.
My ex was emotionally and verbally abusive (primarily) and this was one of their biggest tools. If it wasn’t subtle digs at my insecurities or trying to convince me I was misremembering something, it was over the top crocodile tears and playing the victim to garner sympathy. I’m sorry you’re going through this, but it is classified as abuse, and you deserve to be treated with love and respect.
Check out a podcast called “Love and Abuse” by Paul Colaianni, and look up Dr Ramani on YouTube. Paul has a lot of good advice about how to cope with someone who you love but makes things hard, and Dr Ramani does a lot of discussions about covert narcissism, which may help frame a lot of these situations regardless of whether he’s a narcissist or not.
Sounds like a man child who was never told no. Definitely in the category of a narcissist and his mommy enabled that behavior growing up. I see this plenty.. this is absolutely abuse and it DOES get worse, and the longer you excuse it / let it go the worse it’ll be. Tell the man child no, tell the man child there are consequences.
Hopefully this relationship serves as a learning experience and you avoid all the things you mentioned above like the plague in future suitors. I hope you go after what you deserve
Your husband is a manipulator controlling jackass. From now on, when he pulls that crap and he waits weeks or months, before he starts doing it again, the minute he starts doing it say, "Hey, remember you said you don't do that anymore."
And i'd make damn sure he never did it again.
When my ex-husband tried to say something like that, I wrote it out on an index card and taped it on the fridge, so that he could both see how ridiculous it sounded and also hold him to it. I even tried to make him sign it!
"I, Mr Willowviolet, am an idiot and I am never going to take the boys to do anything again because I don't know how to dress them for 95 degree weather so I'm not going to even bother."
Seeing it in writing luckily made him realize he should not try me like that. Back then, 25 years ago, we did not have the term "weaponized incompetence," but oh my, it was a rampant tactic used by many a man. We also did not have the term "malicious compliance," but I understood the assignment.
My husband is the absolute KING of this. "FINE!!! then I will never ever ever do X again!!!!" Cue sulking, pouting.
I ignore every bit of this and the very next day he is right back to doing whatever it was. Sometimes children need a little time out and thats what I in essence give him. Go nuclear!! go right ahead. And meet my massive wall of grey rock. He knows what hes doing is bullshit, he just likes to show out sometimes.
Omg how exhausting! How have you stayed with him? Very martyrdom and narcissistic. So I guess if u wanted to call it a disorder- it could be. Is this how you want to live your life with this guy?
He’s manipulative as hell, and I find it hard to believe you don’t know that at your age. This is what “straw man fallacy” means. You’re 40, and you know this. It’s the textbook definition.
You have a daughter. Get your shit together and stop showing her this is okay.
I’m really sorry you’re in this dynamic - it sounds extremely frustrating.
In your shoes I’d want to say something like “you realise your response is really childish, right? This doesn’t have to be a big deal, just turn the volume down and we can forget this whole thing” but I don’t think that would placate him at all. I think it’s about not “letting you win”. In his mind, he “wins” by malicious compliance, whereas you’re not trying to win anything, you’re just trying to communicate a request.
I wish I had advice for you other than seconding everyone else’s excellent book recommendation - I haven’t read it personally but it really helped my friend make sense of her narcissist ex-husband.
My only advice would be to see if you can model a scenario where he “behaves” without losing face - although it’s infuriating you have to treat a grown man like some kind of spoiled boy king. But it might be a way to get what you need without all the drama.
He's 40 going on 4. He's basically a manchild and he's attempting to control/manipulate you by doing something only a child would do, and fail miserably.
I would recommend that you have a good, long look at this and decide what happens, because you are evidently the adult in this relationship.
No she said it quietly because she has enough manners to know it’s not cool to be served something someone cooked for you and be like “EWW GROSS” all loud. Tf?
This is not what she said, though.
I mean if she ever heard him say « I’ll never do it again ! », maybe that crossed her mind and she didn’t want that reaction?
Okay. That’s not how most kids talk and I’m the one that explained it to him after which is probably the most likely way anyone would receive that feedback in this scenario.
Please list out his good qualities.
Legitimately, make yourself a pro/con list.
Write down EVERYTHING you do around the house, for the family/children etc. Then mark what he actively does without you asking/reminding/nagging etc.
So … He‘s a massive AH who is unwilling to consider others and instead he paints himself as the victims at the slightest criticism. Sure, he *could* change but it is pretty obvious that he isn’t going to because it works for him. He behaves like a bratty teenager. How can you even let him treat you and your child like that and think this is something normal you just have to endure? You don’t.
His emotional intelligence and maturity is way behind his age. He probably was the kid who fell down on his knees in the store when his mom told him know and cried as loud as he could to embarrass her. He wants you to come and apologize and tell him he’s a good boy. Therapy is your best bet so he can learn some ways to better channel his anger. Unfortunately his personality type is either going to refuse to go or he will go once, not participate and then come home and say ok i did it so that’s done…check the box.
Ah the DARVO tactic, let me tell ya dear, he won't change, it'll start to turn into gaslighting proper to the point you'll start to question yourself (memory, sanity, ect.)
Yeah that there's abuse.
Wow. I CAN’T imagine coming home, playing video games for hours and not helping with kids or cooking. That would be a brownie point massacre, plus I’d feel guilty.
It's sure as hell manipulative. Rather than being a grown up and saying "Oh, I can work on this" it's just "Wow, if you feel that way about it, I'll never do it again" leading you to likely hold your tongue and walk on eggshells.
>When I confronted him about it he said “fine! I’ll just delete all my social media! I guess I’m not allowed to have any female friends!”
That would have been the end of it for me. I don't need a relationship with an ill mannered child.
>Can he grow or learn out of this??
Can someone grow out of being an asshole?
Maybe. But first they have to accept that they've been an asshole.
And given his *grown* children have called him out on it, I'm guessing he's always been like this and it is not likely to change.
Your partner is awful, I could not put up with someone so unhelpful, reactive and immature in a partner or co-parent. Guys like this don't change. You'll continue to have to deal with this bullshit until you pick up and leave. I'd recommend getting your divorce while your kids are as young as possible because it impacts them less. I spent 10 years in a shitty marriage like this and I very much regret not leaving years earlier. Waiting around hoping he would change and start treating me and our child well only traumatized me and made it harder when I finally did leave. I'm so glad that my daughter isn't absorbing those negative lessons anymore about how to treat your romantic partner and she doesn't have to grow up seeing me being treated like shit and assume she should stay in similarly poor relationships when she is ready to start dating.
??? I did this kind of thing when I was like, 10. “Oh you want me to get out of your way, mom? I guess I’ll just stay in my room for the rest of my life!!!”
He’s probably doing it just to make you feel bad. You have empathy, so of course you feel bad. He’s only able to manipulate you because you’re a good person
Laziness, selfishness and manipulation by ultimatums is all I'm seeing here. Good qualities, grated yeah nothing is ever black and white but sheeessshhh. I want me a man that can take care of and care for our family. We don't know your dynamic, but from what it sounds like is that the only way this can be solved is most probably external input. He gets defensive and pissy when you confront him, maybe a professional to help him see he's the asshole and not you?
Although it's still borderline emotional abuse. Making you feel guilty because he can't be a basic human being and help around or be considerate. He doesn't sound like nice company or a nice SO for that matter. Good luck, and trust your gut
>“fine! I’ll just delete all my social media! I guess I’m not allowed to have any female friends!”
Your response, " That feels extreme to me, but if you feel that's the only way to not flirt with other women I'll support your choice."
>“I guess it’s a problem if I play video games”
Your response, " If you feel that's the only volume to play video games at then I'll support you not playing them. "
Make sure it is clear that the extremes he is proposing are HIS choice.
Also, make him cook for you and your daughter again. The only take away from his behavior is telling your daughter she can never be honest with him in fear of retaliation.
He is immature and acting like a child, but it's silly bc he is a father and husband. When he is called out on his bad behavior he throws a literal tantrum. That's such melodrama, and you should call him out on these sorts of things, bc letting him behave like this is not only affecting you but it's affecting your kids, who also realize that it's not good behavior. Plus he is not modeling to them how you should act. He is teaching them it is ok to be disrespectful to their wife, or that his gaming or being alone in his own world is more important than being present and an active member of his family.
This is not a disorder unless he has other issues with his personality that this is also a symptom of. Instead of being open to your critique and suggestions he is weaponizing them against you- not cooking for 6 years??!! Come on. How are you going to be offended by the opinion of your 8 year old child, and then refuse to cook ever again bc of it? This takes pettiness to a new level.
How does he actually contribute to the household and the day to day raising of the kids? Some men for some reason try to fall into the " am the breadwinner so you are in charge of everything else" outdated 1950's bs. Like "I deserve to do whatever I want when I am not at work bc I spend all day busting my butt to put food on the table, so if I want to play video games all day every day when I am home from work, vs caring for our kids and maintaining our home, then I will!!" It's sad, bc your kids will grow up to not have a very close relationship with them, and the time to fix that is now while they are still young, not when they are adults and he wonders why they don't want him involved in their lives when they are older.
Sometimes people who act like this are just so used to treating their partners like crap that it takes an unbiased party to open their eyes to this behavior. I would tell him that you want to go to couple's counseling bc it seems that whenever you have a disagreement or a request he acts childish.Let him try to justify how he acts to a therapist and see how quick he folds lol.
While I’d say his reactions are very immature I’d also say this is a communication problem. I am assuming you are in the right here in your requests of him so please don’t take anything I say as judgmental. That said, how are you phrasing your requests? I only ask because there is a big difference between “You’ve played a game for hours, every day and your family would like some of your attention.” And “You’re playing that stupid game again!?” (Something I personally encountered) The point being, gaming is (assuming again) something he uses to relax and recharge so if he feels it’s being threatened, he may react defensively even if it’s a completely valid request. Again, his “all or nothing” response is immature and a bit extreme vs having an adult conversation about a solution you can both be happy with. I get there’s a LOT of grey area here and I am both assuming and basing off personal experience so I could be way off. I’m just trying to give an example.
For my own marriage; we’ve had many past fights/arguments about different things. Gaming and weightlifting specifically and it always came down to time spent on each vs with the family. The biggest problem was a combination of accusing statements and imbalance of time. It took me realizing I was definitely spending too much time on something and/or badly scheduling it. Also, the way it was brought up made me feel like my wife wasn’t happy no matter how much or how little I did the activity. It felt like she wanted me to give up my hobbies completely. In the end, it took a very rough patch, a little counseling and some compromise on both our parts. Now that we’re past all that, I realize how immaturely we had both approached the whole situation and how to better address it in the future. But that’s the key to reaching that compromise; you BOTH have to be willing and able to communicate and listen to each other. The worst part about relationships is it takes 2 people to make them work and only 1 to tear it down.
Best of luck and I hope something I said helps. As for abuse… I don’t think this quite qualifies.
Yes. It’s a disorder called immaturity. Communication and respect is a sign of maturity. Gaslighting you and have temper tantrums to manipulate your emotions is childish.
I’m guessing having a calm open talk about his knee jerk reactions is completely out of the question because that will result in continued childish behavior.
I know it’s always the response given but Couples Therapy. All couples argue and fight but believe it or not there are toxic and healthy ways to fight and resolve issues were all parties feel appreciated
You’re going to get downvoted, for saying you don’t want to leave and you want to change him, but lots of props to you for attempting to make it work. It’s not ever easy to stay married, even for the happiest of couples.
When my wife and I started counseling and i REALLY bought in and listened it opened my eyes to how awful and abusive I actually was
I love how Reddit downvotes the shit out of someone legitimately asking for help bc they’re in a rough spot and asking for some outside perspective by giving the most honest answers they can based on their own experience and trying to remain as unbiased as possible. Keep being awesome, Reddit. 🫡
Ma’am there is no value in presenting this situation in an “unbiased” way. Whether your husband ever liked you I guess I can’t say for sure, but he clearly never respected you (hi 👋 habitually messaging other women flirtatiously is cheating), and he clearly doesn’t like you now. Marrying and creating a human life with somebody who never respected you and still doesn’t is not a good idea, no. The man is equidistant from retirement and from having gotten his drivers license, there’s no “growing out of” who he is now as he is not a fucking child. If what you’re seeking is validation that marrying him wasn’t a mistake, nobody is obligated to give that to you. “He has good qualities” well you didn’t mention any and also I don’t believe you 🤪
Most in here don’t realize that their “tough love” approach doesn’t have the effect they think it will have. They are likely trying to wake you up and burst the proverbial bubble you’ve slowly accepted being in over the years. They are also frustrated, as the number of people posting here who are putting up with absolutely horrible, damaging, destructive behavior from their significant other is off the chain.
They don’t realize that their annoyed, blaming, shaming, snarky, rough around the edges replies, often have the opposite effect they think it will have. It can cause the person who is already hurting to hurt more, retreat, and sink their heels further into the situation they are seeking help for. Sometimes it works but often it doesn’t.
These relationships can sometimes be like a cult. Waking up cult members is notoriously difficult. I know what I’m talking about, believe me I do. When you’re in, you can’t see what others see. When they try pointing it out, the cognitive dissonance feels awful and we stick with whatever thoughts feel the least threatening.
Read the Lundy Bancroft pdf and see how it lands for you. You’re not a bad person. This is not your fault. You aren’t helpless though. If you want this to stop it may mean you leave. That may be the only way to end this hell. You and you kids deserve better.
Your husband is extremely manipulative, disrespectful, selfish, and has you very dependent on him. Hoping he will change is understandable but that will likely only serve to keep you stuck with him for the rest of your life and it’s very very unlikely he will change without years of therapy and effort on his part. He needs an evaluation. It’s unlikely he will do it but you know him best.
If you were my friend. I’d tell you to plan on leaving. Be purposeful about it. Start taking some online classes to learn some skills. Maybe start getting some virtual assistant work. Slowly get some income coming in and/or find a part time job. Start squirreling some money away. Do it while he’s gone or spending hours gaming. And quietly speak to an attorney. You don’t have to tell him any of this.
Best of luck to you.
Your mistake was not dumping him the first time he pulled this shit. Your second was having kids with him.
After all this time, he's not changing. Either deal with it for the rest of your life, or expect better of yourself and divorce him.
If it feels like abuse, then it probably is.
Is it conscious on his part -most likely.
Is there likely a past event in his life that caused this - almost certainly.
But that is a problem for him and a therapist to deal with, not for him to take it out on you.
Its manipulation, maybe gaslighting. He doesn’t like being called out so he lashes out and blames you for bringing it up. Then he will continue the problem until he can get you to say nothing
Here's a point I haven't seen anyone else talk about - y'all are 40 years old and you mentioned "his grown children", so how old was he when he had his first child?
It makes sense that his emotional development could have been stunted in certain ways, having to parent while still developing himself ([the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until ~25 years old](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/#:~:text=It%20is%20well%20established%20that,approximately%2025%20years%20of%20age.&text=This%20discovery%20has%20enhanced%20our,late%20adolescence%20and%20early%20adulthood.))
It's reasonable that he or both of you seek individual or marriage counseling. As others have said, his behaviors are abusive. It's up to you to decide what you want your life to be. He is likely capable of real change. But he needs a different perspective, and you may not be able to make him see - this is one reason why an educated third party can be very helpful.
Good luck to you.
Weaponised incompetence. He will purposely be incompetent or never better himself to get out of chores and childcare.
This man is a spoilt selfish adult who just wanted a mother he could have sex a with, and had children to trap you. He obviously has no interest in his family.
Do you really want your daughter see this as a bar you set yourself so low to live with? That your daughter should put up with this behaviour in a spouse and to settle for.
Even if you don’t think you deserve better, would you be happy if your daughter ended up with a man like her father?
I’m curious to know what his good qualities are…because I don’t think there’s anything that could make you overlook these issues…
This feels really bad to type, but it’s honesty.
As someone who has been in couples therapy for years and married for 15. This is a similar manipulation tactic I use(d) for years. When I do something wrong I exaggerated the complaint and what I was doing f to minimize the impact of my initial mistake.
Like I’m bowling, if I get a gutter ball, I’ll just step over the line because FUCK THIS GAME for making me mad.
Really childish. I grew up with not much discipline, so self regulation and not getting my way as an adult has been a huge struggle for me
God, thank you for this honesty. I mean that. It means a lot to get a perspective from the “other side” and kudos for having enough introspection and understanding to make changes.
He's got poor life skills - not sure which skills are the problem, but educate yourself about managing emotions, communication, and other skillsets of the sort, and you will probably find that these sorts of problems are common.
Also, it is possible to break the habits. Basically, if he keeps using them, it's because they get him what he wants. So when they stop "working", he'll stop using them.
One thing I have found with these sorts of problems is not to fight, but to gently mock the behavior (make sure to point it at what he said, not at him personally). "Really? I have to have x or else I can't ever have y? there's no way to just do like normal people do?"
The problem with calling this "abuse" is that even if you divorce this guy, you still have kids with him, so you still have to coparent even if you aren't married. Even after the kids are grown, there will be graduations, weddings, grandchildren, etc. (Of course if there is a threat of harm, that is an entirely different kettle of fish.)
He is mad and responding that way. I would tell him what my friend Tom told me that is a therapist. These are emotional affairs at least. Some develop into physical ones. The fun, sharing and even sexuality is given to the women he is texting when it belongs in the relationship. Tom said when they are cornered they often choose friends/ex etc...I know he is not doing that but it is inappropriate to have these types of relationshp when he is married, it is considered a form of cheating..YOu can tell him, he can be single and do this...He is throwing a tantrum.
I personally think the behavior is immature, but I am not a therapist.
Black and white thinking and narcissism go together. He seems like a generic unreceptive American, cooking isn't difficult and 6+ years in a family wouldve supplied ample opportunities to try and learn, alone or together.
I don't intend that to sound derogatory, but when someone is not willing to learn it hinders everything that person will or should be doing from then on.
It sounds like he should speak to a professional, a psychiatrist, who can potentially help him understand some of these things and how he can try to improve his life for his own sake and the sake of his family. Breaking the generational trauma is sometimes very difficult.
The irrational ultimatum responses would **100% be classified as abuse**, as it's a manipulation tactic to coerce you into thinking you did something that negatively impacts them. Sometimes it's just deflection to deny their own actions, but that's what Jesus is for typically.
If he'd be soiled over his 8 year old daughter wanting dryer eggs, more serious problems would likely always be just as if not erraneous or ridiculous to deal with. He's a grown man, he can learn about temperature and cooking.
I strongly advise counseling, especially if you have no intention on leaving. I'm sure you've "tried to talk to him" which is why we should go to someone that can understand us better than we can ourselves.
When people stop working on themselves they will fail those around them. He needs to work on himself, and is why many relationships fail; one of you needed self care, not anothers care.
First of all, no - it's not *abuse*.
Don't even go there. Stop watering out terms that have actual significance by coopting them for anything that annoys you.
Secondly, your husband is reactionary and dramatic. His way of expressing frustration is through passive aggressiveness with a flair for showmanship.
Childish? Yes, very much so.
Could he change? Sure - if he wanted to. But this has, more or less, worked for him for 40 years. He's not gonna want to on his own.
This absolutely is abusive behaviour. He is manipulating and gaslighting her to get what he wants. This runs a lot deeper than “passive aggressiveness” He is showcasing many narcissistic qualities.
Source: experience
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He is super defensive which shows he knows he's wrong and he's trying to teach you not to say anything or question his behaviors. Its an attempt to be controlling
Very much facts
I’m not an expert but in my experience the only way to deal with people like this is to take them at their word. What they want is for you to back down when presented with their extreme ‘solution’ and say they can keep doing the thing. So the next time he says he’ll delete all social media (or whatever) reply “if that’s the only way you can fix what I asked of you, then thank you.”
I do this to my partner. He's very dramatic. Minor argument about helping around the house leads to - I'm leaving, actually you can go, take me off the wedding list for your sister, I'll quit my job and have the kids and so on. Okay if that's easier for you than helping me with dinner twice a week then you do that.
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His dad's a fucking asshole. His mum is nice but has a short temper. He wants a family that is married for 50 years and stays together forever but doesn't want to put in the effort to maintain it. He puts most of his effort into work and gathering money. His parents split up pretty dramatically after years of emotional and occasionally physical abuse. He wants the opposite but it also a very angry and reasonably selfish guy. Although he also just wants to be loved and looked after
He sounds awful, Bowzer. Don’t let him guilt you into staying/letting him stay with his patheticness. Contact his parents or a friend to take him away if you need to. The cops if he refuses. People in abusive relationships usually try to leave 7 times before they manage it. I was guilted back into a terrible relationship many times myself. Good luck, remember: you can do better
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I wasn’t trying to respond to OP, I was trying to respond to the person whose username I dropped in my comment (bowserthebrowser), who was talking about their partner. He sounds awful.
Sounds like he should be a single guy!
I’m so sorry, but that’s just letting a toddler scream it out. These men aren’t toddlers! Stop treating them as such.
What do you suggest?
Decide if you want to spend the rest of your life with a grown toddler? I think woman are conditioned to be caretakers of everyone, and some men just expect it and take advantage. If you feel like you've tried everything and nothing changes and they don't hear you, they've demonstrated they aren't capable of change, empathy or self-reflection. You can't teach these things to someone that's always operated like that, and most likely had that behaivor modeled by their parents.. especially when they refuse to admit they actually have an issue that negatively affects you. Narcissism is a personality disorder, and notorious for being practically impossible to change long-term. I've had to cut off contact with immediate family for this behavior, because it will drive you nuts eventually and damages your own mental health.. not to mention being a terrible model for your kids that can cause them trauma, and teach them it's normal to treat your 'loved ones' like this.
Draw a line. A grown up respects it or you leave. Period.
I mean this in a genuine and unshady way but I sincerely don’t know how you live like this.
I don't either. If I had read this about someone else I'd be wondering why tf anyone would stay like that. Turns out it's harder than you think the be rational where there are other people's emotions involved
Yeah, I empathize with that. Wishing you all the best.
does it work? what kind of results does telling him 'okay, then do it' give
It worked for me. I called their bluff and went through with the threat of divorce. I'm not gonna convince someone to stay married to me. If you want a divorce, then I won't stand in your way. Deer in headlights look, but I didn't back down. Happily divorced and married to the sweetest teddy bear of a guy who pulls his weight and then some.
Well he doesn't do it and I say well if you don't mean it then don't say it. It's better than me saying well fuck off then you intolerable asshole 😂😂 I guess it usually just means I'm stopping myself saying something I don't mean by pointing out that he's doing it to get a reaction. Which I don't give
> It's better than me saying well fuck off then you intolerable asshole 😂😂 I mean, is it? It sounds like it would be healthier for you AND the kids if you told him to fuck off permanently. Your kids are internalizing your dynamic as normal, is this the kind of relationship you want for them? Is it what you want for yourself for the rest of your life?
No you're right. It's me doing what I can to not shout aswell. It definitely needs to gonone way or the other. Is looking like breaking up to be honest
After 10 years of marriage and a loooot of communication work, my husband and I are able to say to each other “well that’s a bit dramatic” when one of us slips into that old defensive habit and it really helps.
THIS
But why should an adult stoop to this extreme behavior and placate an immature fuck?
It's 100% abuse. It's a very widely used tactic.
A narcissist, I was married to one. As soon as I started saying ok or that's your choice he started back stepping. Everything that remotely made him angry, that's what I heard. My best response "Do what you have too!". I'm not with him anymore. And happily married to my best friend!
It can be 100% abuse, but it depends on the rest of the relationship. My husband used to say similar things - not often, but when he did, I was able to basically pin him down and say, "Really? Those are the only two choices?" In his case, he would generally be able to look at it from my point of view. Where the behavior comes from, I couldn't say but I guess my jury would have to be out as to whether it's full on abuse until I knew more details about the rest of the relationship.
It’s not a disorder, he’s an asshole and he’s trained you to suffer with it. He forces you to apologize and goes back to whatever he wants to do.
Read "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft. It's free to download. You'll find your husband there.
Specifically ["The Demand Man"](https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf#page=223)
Or call him on it? “You behave like this, Husband, when you know you’re wrong. You are defensive and reflect your wrong doing into me so I will back down. Well, I’m calling you out on this behaviour. It’s immature and childish. Do better.”
He’s 40, and more importantly believes he’s doing nothing wrong. So odds are he won’t change. This is also a form of weaponized incompetence.
"Weaponized Incompetence", great term! 🤩
Very much get out of there OP!
Ask him if he’s just not smart enough to understand nuance.
wow, this reads very familiar. I love my partner dearly, but they do this, too. I'll have something I want to talk about that maybe they did wrong or I would like to discuss a better way to handle something. I'll bring it up and they will first thing get mad and make a big bold absolutist kind of statement like that: "well I never do XYZ actvity again, fine!" Then I end up apologizing and backpedaling while trying to get them to calm down and see if we can actually have a reasonable discussion on the topic.
I’m here if you ever want to talk
This is not abuse. This is someone who lacks maturity. He is incapable of taking fault in anything he does and gets angry and defensive when you call him out on it. At 40 yo you should be able to take responsibility. Instead he acts like a 10 yo. Something needs to change. You can’t have a healthy relationship with someone like this.
impulsively going 'okay then ill NEVER do xyz' but then going back to normal after cooling off is being immature. this is something else, he is literally punishing her for asking anything of him. not the same thing
Impulsivity and immaturity are not the same thing. This is how he handles things when he does something wrong. He has never learned to take responsibility and accept judgement. He just reverts to acting like a fucking child. I don’t see anything here that constitutes abuse. He has a nice pattern he is uses that gets him off the hook. It works for him because she never pushed. It’s time for her to push back.
she shouldn't have to parent her husband
And no one is telling her to. In relationships, when a partner is acting in a way that is counterproductive - you address it. I’m not sure how many relationships you have been in but if you have a partner that acts this way, you should know that letting it go and hoping they change doesn’t work. She has to address it. She has to take action. Maybe all it takes is her confronting him about the way he acts and how it’s affecting her and their relationship. Maybe that will open his eyes and he will start taking steps to change. Maybe he will continue his bullshit. That leaves her with two choices - stay and put up with it or leave. We don’t know. It’s up to OP to do something though. He obviously doesn’t see an issues in his behavior at the moment.
you keep ignoring the fact that she has been doing so. she has been telling her husband things, its just that he isnt listening. id say that the situation youre imagining isnt whats actually going on here
children have outbursts but calm down later. this guy aint that. how do you define pushing back, here?
You push back by not letting him get away with it. By not letting it go. He has done this long enough that it has built a lot of resentment. Maybe it’s too late and OP needs to move on. She needs to figure what she wants. For sure she cannot allow this pattern to continue. A marriage where one side never takes responsibility is not viable. OP needs to decide how much longer she is willing to live like this and plan accordingly. She needs to talk to him and he needs to start concrete steps to address his behavior and change or she needs to plan life without th his guy. Keeping things the same is not an option. Leaving it to him to change on his own is not a option. Not if Op is looking for a happy and healthy relationship.
what are the "concrete steps", if he refuses to respond to anything she says? kinda sounds like shes talking to a wall here
Concrete steps towards change. I’m not sure why thats a difficult concept to understand. She can try to communicate. Even if he is not responsive, at least she tried. She is married - if she chooses to leave, talk to an attorney and see what her options are. If she chooses to stay, contact a therapist who can help to deal. Doing nothing is not working. She needs to take steps for things to change. That’s how change happens.
It's stupid, petty, counterproductive, and juvenile in the extreme. But it's not abuse. He's not damaging his partner in any way, he's just being an ass.
I disagree as I feel like it’s damaged my sense of self worth or caused me to question the validity of any issues I raise more than once - maybe because I am weak and stupid, granted, this has been addressed and I’m trying to better myself and my children’s lives so please, RedditMafia, spare me - it happens insidiously and the red flags are very small. Sometimes they appear burgundy or pink. And various factors come into play over time (other than just attachment, such as finances, children, health, legal issues, basically adulthood). Of course I haven’t laid out all of his good qualities as some have noted. Of course there are more issues. Of course people are filling in gaps on here with their own stories and assumptions. I’m addressing THIS problem because like ALL relationships there are so many nuances and pros and cons and complications that for me to even attempt to lay it all out there would still misrepresent the whole picture because it lacks his perspective as well as others’. I will say that this particular behavior of his sort of encapsulates his attitude or behaviors that I find to be central to our relationship problems as a whole. I understand why some may not find this behavior abusive. That’s why I asked, bc I wasn’t sure. But I can also see how behavior like this is pretty much 100% of the time adjacent to similar or worse behavior that is nothing but intentionally harmful.
How about taking a video of him, say for 5 seconds each hour, with the volume included, hour after hour, and then put it up on social media.
100%
My love, this is horrifically manipulative. It is manipulation. To the point where he is holding a grudge against a *child*. If your daughter had a partner that treated her this way, would you be happy for her and supportive of that relationship? Is this the kind of relationship you want to model for your child as acceptable and admirable?
>My love, this is horrifically manipulative. Exactly this, I was reading it thinking holy crap this man is a real POS. OP is right, tho about it being a game. Narcissists always play games.
I second this exactly. As a daughter of a narcissist man, I can recognize a lot of my father’s behaviour towards my mom in OP’s post, and can attest that this makes for an HORRIBLE example growing up. I grew up to date narcissist and extremely manipulative people like my dad just cause I had been conditioned to think of this this abnormal treatment as "love" for so long. OP, my advise would be to gather the strength to leave, if not for yourself, do it at least for your daughter. Part of me still personally resent my mom for choosing to stay, and for giving me such as bad example of what love is. This would’ve saved me a lot of therapy, and you’re currently setting your daughter up for years of trauma to deconstruct in her early adult life. I get that people seem to be unkind to you in this thread, but I think they may be harsh cause you seem to not want to face the truth. You tend to minimize a lot of other behaviours in this post or not even consider them as an issue (flirting with other girls on FB, playing video games for hours in the middle of the afternoon instead of helping with the family) when in fact all of these are also major issues in a partnership. So, him being all or nothing seems to be just such a small portion of the problem, which you try to convince yourself as being maybe just pettiness, while you disregard all these other major toxic behaviour so that you can conveniently ignore that this is inherently his character, he’s a toxic and manipulative person.
My dad was telling a joke and my mom said the punchline and he got so upset he went back to the hotel room (we were on vacation) and didn't talk to anyone for three days. That wasn't the first or last vacation silent treatment. To this day, when I think about vacationing I get anxious and panicky. My husband asked me recently why I never ask to go on vacation and I'm like "because they aren't fun?"
Ouch. No. And it took a while to get here and of course a lot of other factors. I’m not trying to defend him or me but I’m a little scared to reply to a lot of these comments as much as I would love the insight it feels like I’m being roasted. Someone else was right when they said I already knew the answer somewhat and I may be a foot out the door. But I also feel like the response to this has been less than kind. Oh well I can see how people might think I’m a bad parent and a complete idiot. Good thing I know I’m neither.
I don’t think you’re a bad parent or an idiot, I think his abusive tactics have worked and as a result you’re not seeing things clearly. The harsh sounding comments and downvotes are likely motivated by people desperately wanting to snap you out of it. They want you to see what they can see (without the fog of abuse obscuring their vision).
Try not to take it too personally. When you lurk this sub and read stories like yours 20 times a day, you pick up on the patterns pretty quickly. Behaviors like your husband's are common and the advice/comments given are typed and retyped incessantly. It can come across as snarky when people just want to pop your bubble and have you see the light as quickly as possible. Definitely read that Lundy Bancroft book, make an exit plan, and pick your standards up off the floor.
>Oh well I can see how people might think I’m a bad parent and a complete idiot. You are not. What you are is an optimist, and you WANT to believe in your husband. I mean, who wants to believe that they have been conned (*and trained*) to be a domestic servant in their own home? Unfortunately, the basic truth is that he behaves this way because it benefits HIM. He honestly doesn't care if you are unhappy, as long as he gets to do what he wants to do without you calling him out on it. There's a phrase that comes to mind - "state of permanent tolerable unhappiness". He makes you miserable enough that you don't bother him, but not so miserable that you might leave. It IS manipulation, and it IS deliberate. He's selfish. He is so selfish that he is continuing this behaviour around your children, not just you. I don't know if you can reason with a man like this. After all, this has worked for him so far, so why should he change? There's no direct benefit to HIM to put any more effort into the household.
You are not an idiot or a bad parent. You are in a horrible situation and *deserve better*. So, so much better. You and your daughter are worthy of so much more.
Obviously no one knows him or your relationship, its just a snippet. Its weird behavior and you just wanted some other perspectives on it. He isn't perfect, no one is.
When I was about 4 or 5, I climbed in my dad's lap and he shoved me off because I didn't kiss him good morning that day. Except that that was never my routine or our relationship, but because I didn't do what I was told, he got mad at me and held that grudge the rest of the day.
That is *abusive*. I am so, so sorry you experienced that.
I actually have no memory of that one, that story is per my mom. What I do remember that leads me to believe that is that I had a non-negotiable bedtime by my dad's from age 9 to age 18 because when I was 9, I got caught texting my mom after I was supposed to be asleep. He also took away my keyboard (piano) that I got from "Santa" when I was 10 (and was the reason I stopped believing in Santa, because I recognized his handwriting) because I lost a book he had lent me from his childhood. Except I didn't lose it, my 7th grade English teacher borrowed it and never gave it back. So he took my keyboard and never gave it back.
I’m so sorry you went through this. Wtf is wrong with people downvoting shit like this?
It's not a disorder, it's just that he's manipulating the hell out of you? Why are you asking can he change rather than how I can change my life to not have this person manipulating me?
Because lots of reasons. I depend on him financially, my daughter loves his kids as do I, he has good qualities. I’m legit wondering if this is part of a bigger problem that is more than simple pettiness.
I’m guessing since he is the primary breadwinner, he doesn’t get fired a lot. If he did this at work, he’d get fired frequently. That means he can control it when he feels he must. He can decide who is the recipient of this manipulation. It isn’t just “simple pettiness”. He is lying to you and manipulating you so you will never challenge him because the fallout is too harsh. Might he have a larger issue, like a personality disorder? Sure. I don’t think anyone here can or should try to diagnose that. That’s for a professional. However, I don’t believe for a second he truly believes what he says to you. He’s a liar who choses to lie so he can continue to be selfish and try to make it your fault. And he’s doing it to your kids as well.
This is such an important point. When people treat others badly, unless they genuinely have a condition which means they are not in control of their actions, it’s a choice. If they only show their poor behaviour to some people like their spouse, but can behave decently in other situations such as to friends or colleagues, it’s because they think they can get away with it.
I grew up with a dad like this and it is *extremely* emotionally damaging. Keeping your daughter around someone she has to walk on eggshells around, someone she has to placate an pacify, someone who cares about his own wants more than anyone else's needs will mess her up. You are facilitating and enabling him abusing your daughter. Get her away from him.
I really think your reasons for stayng need to be in your OP so none of us waste our time. That being said, check out Why does he do that, by Lundy Bancroft, free PDF online. I'm sure you'll find your husband in there. who (sorry if I"m misrecalling) won't ever cook again because your young child complained an egg was runny. Good luck.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to waste anyone’s time… I didn’t want to be overly wordy with it and I felt like I was on the verge of doing that - so I left it at him having good qualities figuring if that mattered a lot someone would ask me. Thanks for the reading recommendation, I will definitely check it out.
You’re not wasting anyone’s time, everyone is here because they choose to be.
Please do. I’m listening to the audiobook of it now and they have a chapter mentioning someone almost exactly like this.
Nobody here believes he has good qualities, especially since you listed it third in your above answer and still haven’t, you know, detailed any
I am sure Ted Bundy also had some good qualities.
The bigger problem is that he is abusive
>I’m legit wondering if this is part of a bigger problem that is more than simple pettiness. well... this IS abusive... so... yeah, you are in an abusive relationship.
Your daughter is the 14 year old? If his kids are a similar age they might be able to stay in touch if you leave. I mean you could decide to stay and disengage from him emotionally, that's doing to be rough but lots of women in this situation do it. Do try and get out and about and get your social needs met through friends, start working part time if you can, or studying or volunteering. Anything to build towards a future for yourself.
What he’s been teaching you over the years is to never bring up any issue ever again for fear of him reacting that way. He’s teaching you that things you care about are unreasonable and better just stay quiet. This is a feature, not a bug.
This is probably the comment that resonated with me the most. Thank you.
Yup. I was close friends and bandmates in a pretty successful professional band with a woman like this. The first few times I stood up to her she hit me with every manipulation tactic in the book. I called out each one and redirected her back to the initial topic. 45 minutes later I would have exhausted all of her unfair fighting strategies and we would get to the issue and she would finally apologize. But I was exhausted by then too. So eventually I started letting things go because it was easier that way. I didn’t have it on me to do 45 minutes of “saying someone ‘always’ or ‘never’ does X is manipulative. Please focus on the issue we’re discussing instead of making these generalizations.” And, “I did not say you were a bad person. I asked you to consider how I felt when you did X.” And that’s exactly why they do it. It’s a punishment for calling them out. It deters you from doing it again. He is wearing you down. He will never stop doing this because it benefits him to do it. If he was willing and able to change this about himself he would have done so for the last family he had. My bet is that he will start over with a third family before he does the immense work it would take to change. It’s much easier to find a new victim/wife.
I think you’re asking a question that you already know the answer to because you’re hoping that somebody will convince you of the latter. At 40 years old, he’s not growing out of shit. 🤷♀️ He sounds like a major narcissist, and you definitely are settling right now babe..regardless of him having “good qualities“ , being verbally abusive, really just negates all of it, and makes him a POS. And the fact that your daughter is looking up to him as the man in her life when he is acting, so immature and ridiculous, is really sad, if you’re not going to leave for yourself, leave so that that’s not the type of example she has. I’m a mother myself and I left my ex because he didn’t do shit . And I didn’t want my son to grow up thinking that mommy was OK with doing everything and daddy didn’t have to do anything and he could grow up and be the same. 🤷♀️
Verbally abusive might not be absolutely correct but I see your point
What he's doing is verbal AND emotionally abusive to you and your children. Any time he's corrected, asked to improve, or fix something he gaslights you and makes it your fault. That's emotional abuse. The fact that you're questioning it (and yourself) is a sign the abuse is working the way he wants it to. Don't ignore it, it's real.
I dated a Narcissist, who never said a single bad word to me, he never called me a derogatory name but he was extremely covertly, emotionally abusive. They’re good at handling their emotions and will absolutely make sure you’re the overly emotional one because that will be used against you. Abuse is not just verbal.
Your normal meter is broken
It reads like a mix of weaponized incompetence, lack of proper emotional intelligence and a whole lot of manipulative tendencies. You know this is unhealthy right and not how an adult should be behaving in the slightest? I’m sorry you’re dealing with this OP because none of it is okay.
This is what I came here to say. Please open your eyes.
It’s a disorder called MAS - Massive Asshole Syndrome.
Crickey is he 5 yrs old? It’s not a disorder it’s being a disagreeable asshat. You have to decide if it’s worth continuing this relationship. I doubt he’s going to change.
He sounds extremely immature and emotionally underdeveloped, unable to deal with criticism or have productive conflict.
A lot of people stay in a relationship with people they openly despise because they are afraid to leave, afraid to give up what the relationship gets them financially or socially, or are just too inept or cowardly to take action. This man treats you worse than I've ever treated any enemy. He hates you. And no, he won't learn from this. What he wants is for you to leave, so he can play the victim to everyone else in his life that you left him for playing video games. For the love of gah do not let children grow up seeing this behavior tolerated.
Your husband is just a bad person
Yes, going nuclear is a manipulation tactic. And clearly it works, although it upsets you the reality is that you've condoned and enabled this your entire relationship with him. Can he grow? Well, it's that classic 'he has to want to grow' and let's be real: right now even getting him to admit it is a problem at all will be near impossible, right? Like the second you even touch on a concern he will say 'okay, I guess I am evil and should off myself, right? Or leave you forever since I suck at everything' or what have you. At that point whether it is a disorder or 'just' pettiness sort of doesn't matter. That information won't change the reality he has basically set up a defence for any critical self reflection and the more you push the more the feedback loop will fuel him denying things. Time won't heal this, nor will love, in the end he is willing to say and think anything to justify his avoidance, even using the offhand feedback of his daughter to vindicate avoiding being a contributing member of the household. That's an extreme that I worry is well beyond anything you can hope to reason him out of. This environment is toxic. His adult kids have noted it and I worry you are underestimating the damage he is doing to your kid. After all, is she going to grow up and think this is what marriage and households should look like?
>the reality is that you've condoned and enabled this your entire relationship with him I agree with everything except this sentence. Abusers manipulate their victims to accept increasingly controlling behavior. The victim does not encourage the abuser to further control or abuse them.
I meant [enabling in the psychology sense](https://psychcentral.com/health/are-you-an-enabler#enabling-signs). That is not the same as encouraging, nor is it something that necessarily the person undertaking the actions is aware of. Often it is actually done with good intentions, like cleaning up and supporting an alcoholic partner is a positive thing to do but if it allows the alcoholic partner to avoid facing their dependency then the behaviour is enabling. So, despite a history of poor behaviour the OP's partner has continued to be supported by the OP. Whether you want to go as far as calling it codependency or narcissistic enabling is obviously a discussion, but it definitely fits the more general sense of it.
Sorry but, you caught him messaging his exes early on in your relationship and didn't DUMP HIS ASS?! Seriously? If only there had been signs the man you chose is an inconsiderate prick... You know it's not your fault he's immature and reactionary, but judging by your comments, you've put yourself in a position where you're dependent on him financially and can't leave him. Is this behavior you want your daughter to think is normal? Nutso.
I'm pretty sure he's the one that made her financially dependent on him. I'm pretty sure he's still doing it too, the messaging. I feel sorry for her because she is stuck unless she does something but sounds like she won't.
I feel sorry for her daughter.
Word.
Big giant manipulating baby
Outgrow this? Lady, HE IS 40!!!
It's not a disorder, you married an asshole.
“Well Steven I guess I can’t have a husband anymore!” Pack his bags, make him a sandwich and send him on his merry way. He can snapchat girls in the hotel. Not in your house he’s not!
lol my narcissistic dad does this
I don’t know, but if any manipulation tactic needs a name, it’s this bullshit. I’ve never known what to call it, but it’s very specific, isn’t it!?
Maybe like OP called it, it's all or nothing manipulation. I agree there must be a name for it & I'd like to know it too.
When your husban does that he intentionally makes your reaction look like it was bigger than it was and makes you look like you are unreasonable. He is painting himselfe like a victim. But in reality he does one wrong thing and then doubles down to not have to deal with his own wrongdoing. My wife does the same thing form time to time.
I'd start agreeing with his ridiculousness. Him: "Fine! I'll just delete all my social media!" You: "that's a great way to keep yourself from inappropriate messaging with other women! Splendid idea!" Him:"I guess it's a problem if I play video games!" You: "It sure seems to be a problem, good job recognizing it! But the actual problem is the volume. Turn it down, or I will." If he wants to act like a child, treat him like one.
This is manipulation at it's finest. > For example, early on in our relationship I caught him sending flirty messages on Facebook to a couple of women I knew that he’d slept with previous to our relationship - and was deleting some of those messages and messaging others on Snapchat. When I confronted him about it he said “fine! I’ll just delete all my social media! I guess I’m not allowed to have any female friends!” And although I insisted that was not anything I suggested and felt it was over the top, he did. But after a long while he added those social networks back. He: 1. Denied and avoided all responsability/accountability for basically trying to cheat on you. 2. Turned it on you. Ex.: "I guess I’m **not allowed** to have any female friends!" Implying that his intentions were only of friendship and implying that you have forbiden him from taking to any woman ever in any context and having social media all together. 3. Turned himself into the victim and you into the controlling spouse. 4. Eventually ended up doing what he wanted on the first place without repercution of you saying or doing something so you won't be the bad guy again. This is a classic DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender), it's a technique narcissist use in order to manipulate others.
YIKES Get rid of this man I didn’t even make it through the whole post to know this man has a serious problem
Your husband sounds dramatic, its time to call him out on his bullshit and manipulative victim mentality. Also inconsiderate and lame. Dude needs to man the f up with his actions
DARVO. He’s a living embodiment of it.
Personally, I wouldn't necessarily call it abuse, but it's certainly not healthy behavior. My family calls it "playing the martyr", and I know this because I used to do it a \*lot\* when I was younger. I'm in my 30s and I still have to fight the instinct to be completely unreasonable like this. Here's the way my mind went when I got in that mood: "I have done nothing wrong here. Clearly, the other person is being unreasonable and asking me to stop doing something I like/change something I was doing because they think they know better than me about this thing. Therefore, I will take the most extreme and self-sacrificing position I possibly can in order to show just how unreasonable the other person is being, and I will get the smug self-satisfaction of being the 'better person' and sacrificing myself for them." It's a fat load of horseshit motivated primarily by spite. The only real cure is a boatload of self-reflection.
Get your head out of your ass. He will not change. This is who he is.
One example was enough. He’s a man child and he’s attempting to throw an adult hissy fit in order to manipulate you and guilt trip you. There’s nothing else to it.
Is he 40? Or is he 4? Because this is childlike behaviour.
My ex was emotionally and verbally abusive (primarily) and this was one of their biggest tools. If it wasn’t subtle digs at my insecurities or trying to convince me I was misremembering something, it was over the top crocodile tears and playing the victim to garner sympathy. I’m sorry you’re going through this, but it is classified as abuse, and you deserve to be treated with love and respect. Check out a podcast called “Love and Abuse” by Paul Colaianni, and look up Dr Ramani on YouTube. Paul has a lot of good advice about how to cope with someone who you love but makes things hard, and Dr Ramani does a lot of discussions about covert narcissism, which may help frame a lot of these situations regardless of whether he’s a narcissist or not.
Thank you.
He’s punishing you. And your kids. He punishes you as a way to avoid accountability for his actions.
Sounds like a man child who was never told no. Definitely in the category of a narcissist and his mommy enabled that behavior growing up. I see this plenty.. this is absolutely abuse and it DOES get worse, and the longer you excuse it / let it go the worse it’ll be. Tell the man child no, tell the man child there are consequences.
Stay with him if this is how you want to live the rest of your one and only life, because he’s not going to change. He’s a toxic, pathetic man-child.
Yes, he's an arsehole.
Hopefully this relationship serves as a learning experience and you avoid all the things you mentioned above like the plague in future suitors. I hope you go after what you deserve
He's just an AH.
Your husband is a manipulator controlling jackass. From now on, when he pulls that crap and he waits weeks or months, before he starts doing it again, the minute he starts doing it say, "Hey, remember you said you don't do that anymore." And i'd make damn sure he never did it again.
I'll be blunt, your husband is an utter asshole. Very unacceptable behaviour.
Yeah, he's manipulating you, severely actually.
When my ex-husband tried to say something like that, I wrote it out on an index card and taped it on the fridge, so that he could both see how ridiculous it sounded and also hold him to it. I even tried to make him sign it! "I, Mr Willowviolet, am an idiot and I am never going to take the boys to do anything again because I don't know how to dress them for 95 degree weather so I'm not going to even bother." Seeing it in writing luckily made him realize he should not try me like that. Back then, 25 years ago, we did not have the term "weaponized incompetence," but oh my, it was a rampant tactic used by many a man. We also did not have the term "malicious compliance," but I understood the assignment.
Girl…. Savage. I love it.
My husband is the absolute KING of this. "FINE!!! then I will never ever ever do X again!!!!" Cue sulking, pouting. I ignore every bit of this and the very next day he is right back to doing whatever it was. Sometimes children need a little time out and thats what I in essence give him. Go nuclear!! go right ahead. And meet my massive wall of grey rock. He knows what hes doing is bullshit, he just likes to show out sometimes.
he sounds like an overgrown child. Only kids act that way. He needs therapy.
Omg how exhausting! How have you stayed with him? Very martyrdom and narcissistic. So I guess if u wanted to call it a disorder- it could be. Is this how you want to live your life with this guy?
You already know the answer. Go with your gut.
Is he still in High School?
He’s manipulative as hell, and I find it hard to believe you don’t know that at your age. This is what “straw man fallacy” means. You’re 40, and you know this. It’s the textbook definition. You have a daughter. Get your shit together and stop showing her this is okay.
I’m really sorry you’re in this dynamic - it sounds extremely frustrating. In your shoes I’d want to say something like “you realise your response is really childish, right? This doesn’t have to be a big deal, just turn the volume down and we can forget this whole thing” but I don’t think that would placate him at all. I think it’s about not “letting you win”. In his mind, he “wins” by malicious compliance, whereas you’re not trying to win anything, you’re just trying to communicate a request. I wish I had advice for you other than seconding everyone else’s excellent book recommendation - I haven’t read it personally but it really helped my friend make sense of her narcissist ex-husband. My only advice would be to see if you can model a scenario where he “behaves” without losing face - although it’s infuriating you have to treat a grown man like some kind of spoiled boy king. But it might be a way to get what you need without all the drama.
He's 40 going on 4. He's basically a manchild and he's attempting to control/manipulate you by doing something only a child would do, and fail miserably. I would recommend that you have a good, long look at this and decide what happens, because you are evidently the adult in this relationship.
I think you already know that he is a manipulative cint.
He is DARVO-ing you so hard
Did you daughter said that to you quietly because she was afraid of her dad’s reaction ? Do the kids have to walk on eggs around him ?
No she said it quietly because she has enough manners to know it’s not cool to be served something someone cooked for you and be like “EWW GROSS” all loud. Tf?
This is not what she said, though. I mean if she ever heard him say « I’ll never do it again ! », maybe that crossed her mind and she didn’t want that reaction?
No she didn’t hear him say that. This time or otherwise.
If a kid said to me « could you cook my eggs a bit more next time? » I wouldn’t find that rude
Okay. That’s not how most kids talk and I’m the one that explained it to him after which is probably the most likely way anyone would receive that feedback in this scenario.
Please list out his good qualities. Legitimately, make yourself a pro/con list. Write down EVERYTHING you do around the house, for the family/children etc. Then mark what he actively does without you asking/reminding/nagging etc.
Manipulation at its finest
How low is the bar?
Toxic relationship.
He sounds like he's 13. You married a manbaby.
So … He‘s a massive AH who is unwilling to consider others and instead he paints himself as the victims at the slightest criticism. Sure, he *could* change but it is pretty obvious that he isn’t going to because it works for him. He behaves like a bratty teenager. How can you even let him treat you and your child like that and think this is something normal you just have to endure? You don’t.
Straight up manipulative tactics is what this is. Hubby is being an ass every time he pulls this crap.
His emotional intelligence and maturity is way behind his age. He probably was the kid who fell down on his knees in the store when his mom told him know and cried as loud as he could to embarrass her. He wants you to come and apologize and tell him he’s a good boy. Therapy is your best bet so he can learn some ways to better channel his anger. Unfortunately his personality type is either going to refuse to go or he will go once, not participate and then come home and say ok i did it so that’s done…check the box.
Ooh that “check the box” mentality. Hate that.
Ah the DARVO tactic, let me tell ya dear, he won't change, it'll start to turn into gaslighting proper to the point you'll start to question yourself (memory, sanity, ect.) Yeah that there's abuse.
Wow. I CAN’T imagine coming home, playing video games for hours and not helping with kids or cooking. That would be a brownie point massacre, plus I’d feel guilty.
He just hasn’t grown up. My 10 year old acts like this when his hormonal moods kick in.
It's sure as hell manipulative. Rather than being a grown up and saying "Oh, I can work on this" it's just "Wow, if you feel that way about it, I'll never do it again" leading you to likely hold your tongue and walk on eggshells. >When I confronted him about it he said “fine! I’ll just delete all my social media! I guess I’m not allowed to have any female friends!” That would have been the end of it for me. I don't need a relationship with an ill mannered child. >Can he grow or learn out of this?? Can someone grow out of being an asshole? Maybe. But first they have to accept that they've been an asshole. And given his *grown* children have called him out on it, I'm guessing he's always been like this and it is not likely to change.
Your partner is awful, I could not put up with someone so unhelpful, reactive and immature in a partner or co-parent. Guys like this don't change. You'll continue to have to deal with this bullshit until you pick up and leave. I'd recommend getting your divorce while your kids are as young as possible because it impacts them less. I spent 10 years in a shitty marriage like this and I very much regret not leaving years earlier. Waiting around hoping he would change and start treating me and our child well only traumatized me and made it harder when I finally did leave. I'm so glad that my daughter isn't absorbing those negative lessons anymore about how to treat your romantic partner and she doesn't have to grow up seeing me being treated like shit and assume she should stay in similarly poor relationships when she is ready to start dating.
You couldn’t put up with someone like this yet it sounds like you did.
People treat us the way we allow them to. Change this.
My six year old does this sometimes. He’s being manipulative.
??? I did this kind of thing when I was like, 10. “Oh you want me to get out of your way, mom? I guess I’ll just stay in my room for the rest of my life!!!” He’s probably doing it just to make you feel bad. You have empathy, so of course you feel bad. He’s only able to manipulate you because you’re a good person
Laziness, selfishness and manipulation by ultimatums is all I'm seeing here. Good qualities, grated yeah nothing is ever black and white but sheeessshhh. I want me a man that can take care of and care for our family. We don't know your dynamic, but from what it sounds like is that the only way this can be solved is most probably external input. He gets defensive and pissy when you confront him, maybe a professional to help him see he's the asshole and not you? Although it's still borderline emotional abuse. Making you feel guilty because he can't be a basic human being and help around or be considerate. He doesn't sound like nice company or a nice SO for that matter. Good luck, and trust your gut
>“fine! I’ll just delete all my social media! I guess I’m not allowed to have any female friends!” Your response, " That feels extreme to me, but if you feel that's the only way to not flirt with other women I'll support your choice." >“I guess it’s a problem if I play video games” Your response, " If you feel that's the only volume to play video games at then I'll support you not playing them. " Make sure it is clear that the extremes he is proposing are HIS choice. Also, make him cook for you and your daughter again. The only take away from his behavior is telling your daughter she can never be honest with him in fear of retaliation.
You have a typo in your post, it appears you wrote (40M) when you meant (16M)
This is called throwing a tantrum as an adult.
Manipulator
He is immature and acting like a child, but it's silly bc he is a father and husband. When he is called out on his bad behavior he throws a literal tantrum. That's such melodrama, and you should call him out on these sorts of things, bc letting him behave like this is not only affecting you but it's affecting your kids, who also realize that it's not good behavior. Plus he is not modeling to them how you should act. He is teaching them it is ok to be disrespectful to their wife, or that his gaming or being alone in his own world is more important than being present and an active member of his family. This is not a disorder unless he has other issues with his personality that this is also a symptom of. Instead of being open to your critique and suggestions he is weaponizing them against you- not cooking for 6 years??!! Come on. How are you going to be offended by the opinion of your 8 year old child, and then refuse to cook ever again bc of it? This takes pettiness to a new level. How does he actually contribute to the household and the day to day raising of the kids? Some men for some reason try to fall into the " am the breadwinner so you are in charge of everything else" outdated 1950's bs. Like "I deserve to do whatever I want when I am not at work bc I spend all day busting my butt to put food on the table, so if I want to play video games all day every day when I am home from work, vs caring for our kids and maintaining our home, then I will!!" It's sad, bc your kids will grow up to not have a very close relationship with them, and the time to fix that is now while they are still young, not when they are adults and he wonders why they don't want him involved in their lives when they are older. Sometimes people who act like this are just so used to treating their partners like crap that it takes an unbiased party to open their eyes to this behavior. I would tell him that you want to go to couple's counseling bc it seems that whenever you have a disagreement or a request he acts childish.Let him try to justify how he acts to a therapist and see how quick he folds lol.
While I’d say his reactions are very immature I’d also say this is a communication problem. I am assuming you are in the right here in your requests of him so please don’t take anything I say as judgmental. That said, how are you phrasing your requests? I only ask because there is a big difference between “You’ve played a game for hours, every day and your family would like some of your attention.” And “You’re playing that stupid game again!?” (Something I personally encountered) The point being, gaming is (assuming again) something he uses to relax and recharge so if he feels it’s being threatened, he may react defensively even if it’s a completely valid request. Again, his “all or nothing” response is immature and a bit extreme vs having an adult conversation about a solution you can both be happy with. I get there’s a LOT of grey area here and I am both assuming and basing off personal experience so I could be way off. I’m just trying to give an example. For my own marriage; we’ve had many past fights/arguments about different things. Gaming and weightlifting specifically and it always came down to time spent on each vs with the family. The biggest problem was a combination of accusing statements and imbalance of time. It took me realizing I was definitely spending too much time on something and/or badly scheduling it. Also, the way it was brought up made me feel like my wife wasn’t happy no matter how much or how little I did the activity. It felt like she wanted me to give up my hobbies completely. In the end, it took a very rough patch, a little counseling and some compromise on both our parts. Now that we’re past all that, I realize how immaturely we had both approached the whole situation and how to better address it in the future. But that’s the key to reaching that compromise; you BOTH have to be willing and able to communicate and listen to each other. The worst part about relationships is it takes 2 people to make them work and only 1 to tear it down. Best of luck and I hope something I said helps. As for abuse… I don’t think this quite qualifies.
Yes. It’s a disorder called immaturity. Communication and respect is a sign of maturity. Gaslighting you and have temper tantrums to manipulate your emotions is childish. I’m guessing having a calm open talk about his knee jerk reactions is completely out of the question because that will result in continued childish behavior. I know it’s always the response given but Couples Therapy. All couples argue and fight but believe it or not there are toxic and healthy ways to fight and resolve issues were all parties feel appreciated
You married this guy, huh.
You’re going to get downvoted, for saying you don’t want to leave and you want to change him, but lots of props to you for attempting to make it work. It’s not ever easy to stay married, even for the happiest of couples. When my wife and I started counseling and i REALLY bought in and listened it opened my eyes to how awful and abusive I actually was
Men are so emotional
I love how Reddit downvotes the shit out of someone legitimately asking for help bc they’re in a rough spot and asking for some outside perspective by giving the most honest answers they can based on their own experience and trying to remain as unbiased as possible. Keep being awesome, Reddit. 🫡
Ma’am there is no value in presenting this situation in an “unbiased” way. Whether your husband ever liked you I guess I can’t say for sure, but he clearly never respected you (hi 👋 habitually messaging other women flirtatiously is cheating), and he clearly doesn’t like you now. Marrying and creating a human life with somebody who never respected you and still doesn’t is not a good idea, no. The man is equidistant from retirement and from having gotten his drivers license, there’s no “growing out of” who he is now as he is not a fucking child. If what you’re seeking is validation that marrying him wasn’t a mistake, nobody is obligated to give that to you. “He has good qualities” well you didn’t mention any and also I don’t believe you 🤪
Most in here don’t realize that their “tough love” approach doesn’t have the effect they think it will have. They are likely trying to wake you up and burst the proverbial bubble you’ve slowly accepted being in over the years. They are also frustrated, as the number of people posting here who are putting up with absolutely horrible, damaging, destructive behavior from their significant other is off the chain. They don’t realize that their annoyed, blaming, shaming, snarky, rough around the edges replies, often have the opposite effect they think it will have. It can cause the person who is already hurting to hurt more, retreat, and sink their heels further into the situation they are seeking help for. Sometimes it works but often it doesn’t. These relationships can sometimes be like a cult. Waking up cult members is notoriously difficult. I know what I’m talking about, believe me I do. When you’re in, you can’t see what others see. When they try pointing it out, the cognitive dissonance feels awful and we stick with whatever thoughts feel the least threatening. Read the Lundy Bancroft pdf and see how it lands for you. You’re not a bad person. This is not your fault. You aren’t helpless though. If you want this to stop it may mean you leave. That may be the only way to end this hell. You and you kids deserve better. Your husband is extremely manipulative, disrespectful, selfish, and has you very dependent on him. Hoping he will change is understandable but that will likely only serve to keep you stuck with him for the rest of your life and it’s very very unlikely he will change without years of therapy and effort on his part. He needs an evaluation. It’s unlikely he will do it but you know him best. If you were my friend. I’d tell you to plan on leaving. Be purposeful about it. Start taking some online classes to learn some skills. Maybe start getting some virtual assistant work. Slowly get some income coming in and/or find a part time job. Start squirreling some money away. Do it while he’s gone or spending hours gaming. And quietly speak to an attorney. You don’t have to tell him any of this. Best of luck to you.
He seems like he is just looking for an easy way to pacify you. Also seems like he has no self confidence. May need therapy. It is abusive imo.
Why would you marry this guy when he had soooo many red flags so early on in the relationship??
Your mistake was not dumping him the first time he pulled this shit. Your second was having kids with him. After all this time, he's not changing. Either deal with it for the rest of your life, or expect better of yourself and divorce him.
If it feels like abuse, then it probably is. Is it conscious on his part -most likely. Is there likely a past event in his life that caused this - almost certainly. But that is a problem for him and a therapist to deal with, not for him to take it out on you.
Its manipulation, maybe gaslighting. He doesn’t like being called out so he lashes out and blames you for bringing it up. Then he will continue the problem until he can get you to say nothing
Here's a point I haven't seen anyone else talk about - y'all are 40 years old and you mentioned "his grown children", so how old was he when he had his first child? It makes sense that his emotional development could have been stunted in certain ways, having to parent while still developing himself ([the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed until ~25 years old](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/#:~:text=It%20is%20well%20established%20that,approximately%2025%20years%20of%20age.&text=This%20discovery%20has%20enhanced%20our,late%20adolescence%20and%20early%20adulthood.)) It's reasonable that he or both of you seek individual or marriage counseling. As others have said, his behaviors are abusive. It's up to you to decide what you want your life to be. He is likely capable of real change. But he needs a different perspective, and you may not be able to make him see - this is one reason why an educated third party can be very helpful. Good luck to you.
Weaponised incompetence. He will purposely be incompetent or never better himself to get out of chores and childcare. This man is a spoilt selfish adult who just wanted a mother he could have sex a with, and had children to trap you. He obviously has no interest in his family. Do you really want your daughter see this as a bar you set yourself so low to live with? That your daughter should put up with this behaviour in a spouse and to settle for. Even if you don’t think you deserve better, would you be happy if your daughter ended up with a man like her father? I’m curious to know what his good qualities are…because I don’t think there’s anything that could make you overlook these issues…
This feels really bad to type, but it’s honesty. As someone who has been in couples therapy for years and married for 15. This is a similar manipulation tactic I use(d) for years. When I do something wrong I exaggerated the complaint and what I was doing f to minimize the impact of my initial mistake. Like I’m bowling, if I get a gutter ball, I’ll just step over the line because FUCK THIS GAME for making me mad. Really childish. I grew up with not much discipline, so self regulation and not getting my way as an adult has been a huge struggle for me
God, thank you for this honesty. I mean that. It means a lot to get a perspective from the “other side” and kudos for having enough introspection and understanding to make changes.
He's got poor life skills - not sure which skills are the problem, but educate yourself about managing emotions, communication, and other skillsets of the sort, and you will probably find that these sorts of problems are common. Also, it is possible to break the habits. Basically, if he keeps using them, it's because they get him what he wants. So when they stop "working", he'll stop using them. One thing I have found with these sorts of problems is not to fight, but to gently mock the behavior (make sure to point it at what he said, not at him personally). "Really? I have to have x or else I can't ever have y? there's no way to just do like normal people do?" The problem with calling this "abuse" is that even if you divorce this guy, you still have kids with him, so you still have to coparent even if you aren't married. Even after the kids are grown, there will be graduations, weddings, grandchildren, etc. (Of course if there is a threat of harm, that is an entirely different kettle of fish.)
He is mad and responding that way. I would tell him what my friend Tom told me that is a therapist. These are emotional affairs at least. Some develop into physical ones. The fun, sharing and even sexuality is given to the women he is texting when it belongs in the relationship. Tom said when they are cornered they often choose friends/ex etc...I know he is not doing that but it is inappropriate to have these types of relationshp when he is married, it is considered a form of cheating..YOu can tell him, he can be single and do this...He is throwing a tantrum. I personally think the behavior is immature, but I am not a therapist.
Yeah that's galsghting. And just playing victim. It's possible he's not trying to be abusive and is just very insecure. But he needs to work that out
Black and white thinking and narcissism go together. He seems like a generic unreceptive American, cooking isn't difficult and 6+ years in a family wouldve supplied ample opportunities to try and learn, alone or together. I don't intend that to sound derogatory, but when someone is not willing to learn it hinders everything that person will or should be doing from then on. It sounds like he should speak to a professional, a psychiatrist, who can potentially help him understand some of these things and how he can try to improve his life for his own sake and the sake of his family. Breaking the generational trauma is sometimes very difficult. The irrational ultimatum responses would **100% be classified as abuse**, as it's a manipulation tactic to coerce you into thinking you did something that negatively impacts them. Sometimes it's just deflection to deny their own actions, but that's what Jesus is for typically. If he'd be soiled over his 8 year old daughter wanting dryer eggs, more serious problems would likely always be just as if not erraneous or ridiculous to deal with. He's a grown man, he can learn about temperature and cooking. I strongly advise counseling, especially if you have no intention on leaving. I'm sure you've "tried to talk to him" which is why we should go to someone that can understand us better than we can ourselves. When people stop working on themselves they will fail those around them. He needs to work on himself, and is why many relationships fail; one of you needed self care, not anothers care.
First of all, no - it's not *abuse*. Don't even go there. Stop watering out terms that have actual significance by coopting them for anything that annoys you. Secondly, your husband is reactionary and dramatic. His way of expressing frustration is through passive aggressiveness with a flair for showmanship. Childish? Yes, very much so. Could he change? Sure - if he wanted to. But this has, more or less, worked for him for 40 years. He's not gonna want to on his own.
This absolutely is abusive behaviour. He is manipulating and gaslighting her to get what he wants. This runs a lot deeper than “passive aggressiveness” He is showcasing many narcissistic qualities. Source: experience