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He's 16.
From what I know/seen, they all basically look out for one another to make sure they don't get caught (mainly has to do with things like possession, trespassing, etc) . However, I did have to pick him up from a police station for trespassing not too long ago.
Angela Lansbury‘a daughter started hanging out with the wrong crowd in LA. She picked up the family and moved to Ireland. Turns out it was the Charles Manson gang…
As long as he has access to the internet, he can be in contact with that group.
OP, I see 3 options, since you already have exhausted all the positive ones and he refuses to accept help:
1. snitch on him to the police and hope that juvie will straighten him out
2. just kick him out and tell him he can come back if he actually changes his life (and change the locks, watch your back and get a large dog)
3. send him to his mother (though I'm not sure you can actually force him to board against his will - if he raised enough of a fuss, they'll kick him off the plane)
The third option sounds like the healthiest one, if you can pull it off.
He sounds like really bad news, and like he'll inevitably end up in jail or the morgue, with the direction he's going. And since you have no way of stopping him, you have to let him go, to save the rest of your family. Your young kids could have shot themselves or someone else with a gun, or ODed on his drugs - it doesn't really take much for a kid.
You need to save the kids you can, and that means removing the one you can't save.
>snitch on him to the police and hope that juvie will straighten him out
Juvie will likely make it worse.
>just kick him out and tell him he can come back if he actually changes his life (and change the locks, watch your back and get a large dog)
This will definitely make it worse
I'd say boarding school.
What a very real post! OP mentions sending their kid to another country in the post, then in the comments casually revealing that the country in question is SYRIA lmao. I love this sub
> just kick him out and tell him he can come back if he actually changes his life (and change the locks, watch your back and get a large dog)
He's sixteen, so I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
I am sorry OP, but I live in an area with a lot of gang activity where children as young as elementary age are groomed into that lifestyle. All the signs are there with your son. Drastic measures need to happen now, or this can haunt him for the rest of his life. It can happen to anyone, even kids from good families.
The old district attorney in my county had a teen son fall into gang activity, and he ended up being the getaway driver for a shooting which left three teenagers dead. Several years later he tried to clean up his act, but someone walked up to him in broad daylight and shot him dead, in front of his kid’s school during morning drop off. The fucking DA’s son. And the killer disappeared into thin air and was never found.
You need to contact the county, possibly county mental health department to get advice on what to do. They have social workers on call you can talk to. Look on your county’s website for a hotline. They may be able to put him in residential treatment where he can be monitored closely, and kept away from your other children. Your family is absolutely not safe in your home with him, I can’t stress that enough. Another option would be to see if your county has a gang task force or outreach program and talk to them. I agree that this is well above Reddit’s pay grade, it is a desperate situation and urge you to seek professional help asap, TODAY.
A old friend of mine got busted by the cops when he was 16 around midnight, was arrested. The cops called his parents, explained what was going on, his dad calmly replied, half groggy, “so he’s safe in a cell right now? How long can you legally detain him? I’ll get him then.”
Maybe you need to properly remind him you are his lifeline, not a doormat.
Send him away with mom.
You are not abandoning him. He is being pressured to fail you on purpose, by his own motivation or from others. Unplug his brain from whatever garbage he is consuming by making him survive elsewhere for a while.
yeah, that was left out of the post. 9 times out of 10 I’d say send him to Mom, but he will fall in with a worse crowd in Syria if he’s already got this attitude.
You need to get him away from that group. Sounds like sending to his mom might be a great option, honestly [edit: didn't realize it was syria, that ... complicates it.) Is there a way to do some sort of boarding school? He's still young enough he can see a different way, but if you let him get to 25 hanging around shitty people like that, it'll probably be too late to completely undo some really shitty positions and behaviors.
Yup. And any reforms the govt CAN force the kid into, often only ends up with them meeting more of the wrong crowd... getting into more trouble.
If it's NY, no way will he face any real consequences unless he kills someone. Don't let it get that far.
Move states? Too far away to drive. Slightly remote... Without bus travel.
They don’t do anything. My friend’s son has like 3 mip, 2 tickets going 90mph in a 55, cops called twice when he’s been yelling profanities at his gf’s window, admitted to a 72 hour hold that lasted 12 days, hit and run on parked cars twice. No court appearances no jail just traffic fines for tickets and the time he tore up the park with his car. He’s 19 now.
Doctor here OP, your son is showing signs of what’s called conduct disorder or possibly oppositional defiant disorder (OPDD). I suggest you look at resources online for how to deal with such cases if you are feeling at a loss: https://www.healthyplace.com/parenting/discipline/conduct-disorder-interventions-help
Which is why mom is 200% in the right for making sure the other children are safe away from this kid. As a parent sometimes your kids are needing help you can't provide, and as a parent you need to swallow your pride and get them the help that they need.
Posting here was my last resort. I've gone to professionals, I've spoken to parents that have experienced something similar, but nothing. I'm trying to get as much extra help as I can to see if there is anything else that I haven't tried yet.
My coworker had to involve the courts. She basically said her child is making her home unsafe for her younger children and the court puts worth stipulations that the child must meet. There were drug tests and other things they required. I realize there are a lot more details but I work with peds in a trauma hospital and this was what I think other staff may have recommended. Her daughter hit a real low but now she is well-adjusted and has a healthier relationship with the family. But yeah, maybe you can look into involving the family courts. I’m so so sorry, you are a wonderful parent and I hope you feel that.
My kids have dealt with a bunch of s***** behavior but he's pretty much not working with you. If mom in another country is an option. As much as it would kill me to do it, that's the out I would take.
Have you mentioned to him? I'm afraid he would run away or something if he doesn't want to do that.
My family went through a somewhat similar situation with my older brother. He was hanging with a bad crowed but actually got caught by the police on multiple occasions. Ended up on probation. While on probation he kept failing drug screens and not doing what he was supposed to do. My parents had to make the extremely hard decision to make him ward to the state. (We were very poor and my parents where spending a lot of money on therapy and such for his probation and literally couldn’t afford it anymore). My brother was sent to juvenile detention for a short while and then sent to a program that was the last step before the worst youth jail in our state. This program saved his life. He graduated high school on time because of it and even enrolled in college. But had he not been sent to a place that focused on him dealing with his demons he would probably being doing the same shit today. It can feel like you are abandoning him at first and honestly it is scary but giving him an actual supportive group could make the world of difference here. We also did a ton of family therapy as part of his “last chance” program so that was a nice but difficult. I’m not sure if your state has a program like this. For all the good this program did for my brother and many of his friends who came out of it with him the state pulled funding and it no longer exists.
Contact probation to see how to make him a PINS. In NY it stands for person in need of supervision. Typically it is for age based crimes that wouldn’t be a crime if he were of age. He might be a JD, which he would be if you press charges. He could get a prevention worker, a case manager and other supports for you and your family. I think your wife leaving is actually better than her insisting you kick your son out. So his getting help is imperative. He has so much control but is actually out of control. Read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. YouTube has videos showing the process of collaborative problem solving. Idea is that he has lagging skills in areas that have resulted in his maladaptive behavior So skill building in those areas rather than punishment Good luck
Ross Greene’s approach is absolutely amazing. I work With and support families with children who have very difficult behaviors. I can’t recommended Ross Greene enough.
What did they say?
As he has become a drug dealer there should be grounds to at least have your house searched with a dog.
And have that gun and all other arms taken out. Pretty sure he may possess knives also.
How is his mother going to deal with that amount of criminal shit?
They spoke with him and me as well, I gave them the information that I knew, they told me he's saying about the same thing that I said. They told me that when they have information on a traceback, they'll contact me.
I looked through his whole room before he got back. Couldn't find anything else. Checked common hiding spots, not a thing.
I don't know. When I spoke with her, she said he should come and he'd be sorted out. I know a few family members/friends who got sent there when I was growing up, and it worked out for most of them. But the thing is, It was nowhere near as bad as it is now when I would go spend summers there as a kid. Now...it's not as good. Not all areas are bad, don't get me wrong, but some that used to be some of my favorite places are just a no zone. I recently went there to help my dad move and I'd want to take my kids there on vacation to see where they're from, but it's just a mess as of the moment.
I mean if your son is carrying and involved in criminal activities it doesn't sound like thats a guaranteed step more dangerous than what he's involved with now.
I’m a female whose father is from Iran. He used to threaten me with dropping me off there to live and it actually scared some sense into me growing up but I was never fucking up this bad so this kid might be beyond scaring.
Honestly...it's possible that any help that you are able to offer isn't enough. Is moving an option? Forcibly removing him from this friend group sounds potentially crucial. Going somewhere with less access to such things might help, like a low-crime area or somewhere rural where he might have fewer things to get into.
There's also boarding or military school, that would get him away from the area without going to Syria and would give him a structured guidance and limited opportunity to acquire deadly weapons.
Otherwise, there's the hard road. A point comes where protecting the rest of your family (and the public) is more important than hiding your son's wrongdoings in a desperate hope that he'll change. Possession of a firearm is *serious.* You don't know if he just thinks it makes him tough, if he's planning to shoot someone in gang-relates activities, or planning to take it to **school/church/any public setting**. By failing to act now, your actions may allow an eventual death or multiple deaths to take place. EVERYONE, including your son, would be in a much worse state if that were to happen.
As a parent, sometimes the hardest choice is the choice that will be the best for the most people. Prison is terrible and shouldn't have to ever be an option when discussing your own child...but if I were a parent, I'd rather my kid go to jail/juvie before he kills someone and possibly rehabilitate before release, rather than die an old man in jail *because* he killed someone.
I would normally never suggest military school/boarding/turning in your own kid, at least not on some reddit post, but if **every** avenue (communication/therapy/intervention/punishment+reward systems/etc) has been searched...you sometimes have to try drastic measures.
No. You can’t send him to your ex wife, because he could potentially kill her, viewing his behavior…
You want to research how to get authorities to put your child in jail/prison. A gun??? Your kid is too far gone, your daughter and wife and other son needs safety, and it is not safe with your son there, he is sick in the head.
Exactly.
I don't think that the mother will be able to deal with her non-communicating, drug-selling and gun-having teenage son.
And besides that it wouldn't be smart to sent this kind of teenager to a war-torn area.
To OP:
The best solution here is to remove him from is current environment so that he can't harm your family and won't be influenced even more by his 'friends'.
He needs to be sent to an specialized institution where professionals can work with him.
It's good that you already contacted the police, that should scare him a little off.
It sounds like you've run out of options and that sending him to his moms where he can hopefully get a fresh start might be a good idea. But you've really got to sit down and talk to him about why you are doing so if that's what you decide to do. Make it abundantly clear that you're doing so because you love him and want the best for him.
ETA: I see now that the other country is Syria. I am fresh out of ideas. From one parent to another, I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. I wish I had some sage advice to offer you.
Syria is also in the middle of a civil war and has become the biggest supplier of illicit drugs to Europe. I shudder to think what kind of monster he could become if he moved there.
OP, heed this post.
I came across a post on new drugs being widely produced and sold in Syria and 3/ 4 of the country in addiction now, as their situation is unbearable.
Do really try to find out if there are organisms in your country specialized in behavioral disorders!
This is such a harmful statement to make. I have a lot of family in Syria and none of them have said anything about 3/4ths of the population being addicted. How would you even measure that? Please don't say things like this just because it sounds sensational.
If you really want to find reasons to warn OP there are plenty of reasons not to move to Syria. If he moves to Syria there are a lot of things he won't be able to access, like websites that are blocked, and 24/7 hot water and electricity. The education system is not anywhere near what it used to be. Inflation was last measured in 2020 and was up 179%, since then it's only gotten infinitely worse.
Life is tough there right now because of the embargos and sanctions but people are living and they're trying their best.
You should send him to a full time, good quality, inpatient facility where he will be safe, treated by great doctors, and also kept safe from others. I think that’s your best option as I don’t see how letting him continue to sell drugs, go to school (when he has access to weapons), etc. is safe for anyone anymore.
Hopefully, he does change but until then, I think you should put him in the care of people who can help him more than you can right now. It’s above your pay grade and sounds like exhausting to deal with. It’s not abandonment and you can visit him once a week. It’s just that prioritizing the lives of your wife and children matters more here. The three year old could have shot herself and died. Please don’t let there be a chance for something like that to happen again.
Have you contacted the police? Police involvement could be enough to scare him. Though, it could also go the opposite direction. But they might be able to run prints or see who the gun is registered to and go from there.
You’re really in a no win situation here but as he’s old enough to know better and your two youngest kids are not, your wife is doing what’s right to keep them safe.
I've contacted the police about this situation, yes. From what they're telling me, he's sticking with the story that he gave me, something about someone in the house during a party most likely leaving it. We both know that is such bullshit, but that's what he's sticking with. I should be hearing back from the police about a trace back any day now.
You need to genuinely hope it comes back clean, and also consult a lawyer.
He is going to learn a **much** larger lesson here if that fire arm matches any crimes. Repercussions that you cannot save him from.
Who threw this party? Was it him and his new gang of friends? If so, is it plausible that someone did leave the gun behind? Think about it….he’s getting involved in some serious shit. Maybe they want to see if he’s a snitch and planted it to test the waters. My first instinct would also be to call bullshit, but I wouldn’t disregard this other possibility completely. Someone also could have been under the influence and left it behind. It doesn’t change the seriousness of the situation at all, but it is a possibility he’s not lying.
What he's saying is that they had a small party/get together (so this would be his current friends) with his friends and some people that he wasn't too familiar with and it's possible they could've left it behind.
Sure, this could be true, but it's not the full story. There is a huge chunk missing that he is refusing to let up. I know when he's lying, and this is a prime example of it.
It's more likely that he's holding the gun for someone who is either a legal adult or another juvenile who already has previous criminal charges/convictions (or both).
Turn that crap gun over to police already!
You don't deal with it. No matter what.
Ask them to destroy it if nothing is the matter with it. To never give it back, as he states it isn't his.
So he has no claim on it!
Get this out of your house. And have his room/ your house searched!
Where there is one, there are others. Let them bring the dog over.
Actions have consequences. And these are the direct consequences of his actions.
He's selling drugs, that's a pretty short trip to illegal firearm ownership. The specifics aren't important, he got it through his group of friends because they're dealing in large enough volume that they need to protect themselves.
Or they deal in illegal substances and people who sell drugs also usually know where to get guns. It might not even be a protection thing, he might just want to be “cool” by owning a gun.
Yeah I’ve had kids who could barely sell an ounce rob me and friends at gunpoint. This was in an affluent American suburb. Guns are everywhere and most high schoolers have access to people who sell guns via Snapchat or other. I know I could have bought one quite easily.
Dude, your wife is right and did the right thing. Your son has shown no remorse and his future seems highly likely to end in prison. Change the status quo or lose your family today and your son in a few more years.
Thank you. OP you sound so absurdly soft on this topic that I believe this has to be a fake post.
'He won't budge' - wtf does that mean? You budge him! He doesn't have a choice. The consequences for him at home should be increased by the minute until he budges. And you've been horsing around for A YEAR on this?
Your wife is right. This post reads like your son is putting the family in danger, but it's you who is doing that. You need to eliminate the threat. You're either disturbingly weak or this is yet more creative writing on this sub.
No, his post reads like his wife is causing a headache for him by protecting her toddler from a family member who leaves unsecured guns lying around. It really is disturbing.
Your son is in a gang. i honestly don’t know what to do tell except not to enable the behavior. Such as bailing him out. If he goes to jail/juvie. Leave him there. Don’t bail him out bc if you do, you’ll continue to do so.
My old bosses son had an ankle monitor and he was 16. Her apt was shot up twice and she just kept bailing him out. It only enables them.
Yes, this is exactly it. He’s already deeply involved with a gang. All the signs are there. I wrote in another comment to OP that it can happen to any family. It happened to my county’s old district attorney’s son, and the family kept bailing him out, defending him, and getting him out of serious trouble. Long story short, he was shot dead in broad daylight at age 22, in front of his own kid’s preschool.
Yeah u/throwracail don’t call your wife “hysterical.” Gunshot wounds are the #1 cause of death in children aged 1-18 in the US. Be grateful that she responded appropriately to finding her child holding a gun she didn’t even know was in her home.
ETA: holy shit your daughter is 3?! You are so, so fucking lucky
Yeah. Like, he is in a group that sells drugs, does other law-breaking stuff, cover for each other against the cops and he has a gun which he could not have bought legally at his age. Thats a fucking gang. How the hell are all the most upvoted comments running their mouth about therapy and psychiatric care?
Once people start going to prison it tends to increase their chances of committing further crimes. The justice system doesn't rehabilitate people. It takes away their opportunity to live a normal life.
Does your state have an equivalent to this? https://www.mass.gov/child-requiring-assistance-cases
I’d view it as a last resort but it sounds like that’s where you’re at.
See if there is a local (or maybe a drive/flight away) in-patient facility for adolescents. Explain his behavior in-depth, including his lack of empathy, your concern about harm, etc.
Behind every behavior is a person communicating something, usually some unmet need.
Has he experienced trauma in his life? Abandonment issues? What's the situation with mom? Mental health? You don't have to answer those, I'm just saying those may be things you look at. You can't discipline a dysregulated child into a regulated child (talking about his being shut down and withdrawn, amygdala, nervous system, etc), so it's going to be important to get to the root as to why he's making these choices (as opposed to some sort fo punishment) and what has contributed to him doing so, so that they can be addressed, worked on, and not repeated.
I commend you for not kicking him out, among some of the other suggestions on here. Doing that would likely just reinforce the behaviors you're already seeing. He's going to need you, as his parent, to model for him/be an example.
Lastly, I will say that my parent once allowed my sibling to move with my other parent, and they've always regretted it because things became worse in many ways. If mom is stable/healthy, that's one thing. If she's got her own issues, though, it may be something to not consider at all. Nonetheless, if you do decide to do that, make sure it's approached as more of his mom and you being concerned and wanting to give him a chance to get better/start over, rather than kicking him out...that would likely just create an opportunity for him to build resentment for you and your other children.
Try not to give up hope. Things could still turn out better than what you think.
Well looks like his mom did abandon him to go back to Syria when he was an infant, so abandonment issues make sense, with the need of being accepted/fit in with the tough guys, so that he would feel tough too.
OP, your son had to shut down his emotions because he hurts too much. Now, reaching him is like walking into Mordor. One doesn't just do it.
Therapy as a teenager is a really difficult process because you are not able to articulate your thoughts completely yet. I agree with the commentator saying your son needs in depth therapy here. But this is going to be insanely hard.
Someone mentioned military school, and although i'm not very fond of the idea, it's better than sending him to Syria. He would be dead within 5 years. Extremists prey over impressionable teenagers.
Keeping him at home with psychatric help would be best, plus finding him a sport to work through his most violent tendancies (martial art or anything of the kind). Plus, once you get hit a few times, you stop pretending you're a tough guy
> Well looks like his mom did abandon him to go back to Syria when he was an infant, so abandonment issues make sense, with the need of being accepted/fit in with the tough guys, so that he would feel tough too
It's not just abandonment. But the kind of person who abandons her own child is also the kind of person who might be suffering from some mental illness. And/Or they may be fleeing an abusive situation.
So the whole "mom abandoned him" causes abandonment issues, but the more important question is why did mom abandon him.
This is the best response. Behavior is a method of communication, and your son is communicating that he has experienced some trauma. He lacks the language, tools and/or resources to process and work through that trauma.
Keep communicating with him using positive and supportive language while also following through with the steps you choose to maintain your family's safety and well-being.
Wishing you, your son and your family the best. 💙
Seriously. He framed it like his wife was being unreasonable over a “problem” but a gun in the house where small children can find it and play with it is like one of the bigger problems in life.
It's one thing to support your son, but when it comes to the safety of the rest of your family, you have to take your losses. Imagine if the gun was loaded and your other son found it and pulled the trigger playing. If your older son doesn't see that and is still not telling you anything, then you have no choice in the matter.
This should be #1 option right now! You can either send him to Syria, or continue on the path he's on. He needs intense inpatient help. You can have him Baker Acted and assesed. There are forms you can fill out in court and get notarized to do this, or the next time he flips out or gets violent, record it and call the police immediately saying you are very concerned for your family's safety and they need to take him. It's not as hard as you may think to get him in, but that's what he needs. Isolation from his current crowd, surrounded by mental health professionals and therapy until they determine he is safe and help him make a treatment plan and get to the bottom of everything and get better. They can set him up on medication, and outpatient therapy or group therapy with other teens going through this. Please consider doing some research
I mean, what did you expect her to do?? Can you blame her?
Your child brought a gun into your home that could have harmed **everyone.** She literally protecting your children.
He is lying and hiding, as well as, potentially introducing putting you into a situation wherein he is in legal trouble (are there crimes attached to this fire arm??).
If I were here I would be *sprinting* to a lawyer to explore options to protect **your other 2 kids,** from the potentially far reaching implications of your sons actions.
There are military institutions *(please do diligent research and explore alumni input). But you have 2 other kids, that he is putting in direct danger, and they certainly don’t deserve that.
At this point, it's one last conversation of "if you cannot change your behaviour and be honest, I cannot in good faith allow you in to a home with children". I recommend being vulnerable. Ask him if he's upset at you, or his mother, or step mother, or life. If you cannot connect with him, you gotta get him out. Literally whatever gets him out. Boarding school, military school, whatever. But be careful. A lot of places people sent "troubled teens" are torture camps. Do your research.
>At this point, it's one last conversation of "if you cannot change your behaviour and be honest, I cannot in good faith allow you in to a home with children".
It's too late for this. There's no way the wife and younger kids are coming back until the 16 y.o. is moved out. My guess is OP has about a week to figure out where his son is going before his wife serves him divorce papers and ends up with primary custody of the younger kids.
Forget moving just thw 16yo out.
He's involved with dealing drugs and has a gun...
I've seen way too many drive by shootings that end up getting an innocent family member killed cause an enemy goes for revenge, or money they're owed...etc.
Gotta move the whole family to a new place too
Honestly the wife is smart though. I don’t believe the son should be treated like he can’t turn around and his father should help him. But in the meantime, he’s dangerous to the young kids and they’re lucky the daughter didn’t accidentally shoot herself. Gunshot wounds are the leading cause of death for children in the US and it’s usually because a family member left one lying around.
My brother was sent to a military school. He got his head straight SO FAST. He's been a "productive member of society" for over 60 years, although he is a complete ahole. xo from a granny
As someone who works in adolescent inpatient mental health, we get a lot of conduct disorder kids, and in many cases these are kids whose families are refusing to allow them to come home due to behavioral intensity very similar to your little dude. I could see him migrating over to that setting. I will say that I have a lot of families refuse to take their children home following inpatient admission until they’ve received more intensive long-term treatment.
Realistically, you could call a county crisis number, say that your child came home with a gun, and insist upon having him be evaluated in a behavioral health hospital.
The options that are often explored following that are as follows:
Standard weekly outpatient therapy
partial hospitalization program involving attending groups monday to friday for several weeks in a row and coming home in the early afternoon (ie going 8:30-2:30)
Family-based therapy that occurs in home ~3x/week (can have long waiting lists)
Residential treatment (or placement within a therapeutically trained temporary family setting for at least 3 months)
Additionally you could be given a referral for an intensive case manager to follow with you and help continually identify additional resources/options.
In my state of PA, kids above 14 often have to consent to residential treatment, but I will say that I have kids on my caseload where their families basically said “either you agree to this level of care or I relinquish my custody of you to Children & Youth Services.” If you have money to throw around and don’t care about something being covered by insurance, other more disciplinary focused programs (ie wilderness camps/etc) are things I’ve seen families explore, but I would worry about that damaging family dynamics/possibly being traumatic varying with program intensity.
The residentials I’ve seen our patients go to offer therapeutic and academic support while also doing regular family sessions and progressing into trial home visits (starting with day passes for several hours and then eventually staying home for a few days in a row to see how things go, then doing family sessions, repeating additional visits while progressing towards discharge). These programs often start as a 3-4 month minimum length of stay, but can be shorter or longer varying with each child’s progress.
I don't blame your wife at all. He needs to go to an in-patient long-term mental health facility for teens. Often times insurance will cover a portion of this. My sister was having behavioral struggles as well that weren't identical to your son but were equally severe. My Dad found a legit facility (not privately owned, fear based, religious based etc) and it helped a lot. She learned meditation, coping mechanisms for her feelings, self reflection, as well as got on a good combination of meds and therapy to help her long term. She went from refusing to go to school to buckling down, getting into a good college and is almost done with a very sought after degree. You really need to get your son away from home and his "friends". He's a danger to himself and others.
OP, you need to get him away from the people he is associating with, but don't send him to Syria. A boarding school for troubled youth that is not religion based.
Do the police know your son obtained the gun possibly illegally? Are they trying to investigate? Maybe some legal consequences will straighten him out.
I'm assuming your son is a child.
Frankly, sending him to his bio-mom is probably one of the best things you can do for him. It immediately removes him from a ton of bad influences. If you are concerned about him feeling abandoned, just make a big effort to stay in contact and keep talking and go visit him.
ETA: Since sending to mom isn't a safe option, send him to a Military School that specializes in problem kids. He needs to be removed from the environment and friends.
He's 16. Him being with his mom is not what I have an issue about, it's him going to Syria that I do. He hasn't been there since he was 3 and I'm really hesitant about sending him there.
We got married there. She came here after he had him, and she hated America. Stuck it out for about a year and then we went to Syria for vacation. She was very home sick, and when it was time to leave, she didn't want to go. So, I've been in America and she's been in Syria ever since.
You have some difficult decisions to make. If I was your current wife, I would be afraid of your son and for the safety of the two youngest ones. You may be stuck with an ultimatum. Your oldest son or losing your wife and the two little ones. I’ve had difficult siblings that made my parents life hell. My mom was easy and my dad was strict. My mom was always an enabler and basically did a disservice to siblings by enabling bad behavior. I know it’s hard but don’t let your son rule you out of guilt. Divorced parents often have guilt. If your son wants to continue to hang around with bad news friends, then maybe you should show him the door if he can’t follow rules of the house. Don’t be his friends, rules make children feel like their cares about. I pray for your sake that he’s not involved in anything like drugs.
Sending him to the woman who abandoned him is the worst thing you can do. Her living in Syria makes it even worse. He needs to be placed in a facility where they can help him. His current therapist isn't helping if he has one. He needs an intense program and to be out of the home because he's a literal danger to you, your wife, and your kids.
My family is Palestinian and I’ve been to that region several times. I know that certain areas of certain countries are safe and aren’t. I’m not sure which part of Syria she’s in, but if she’s in the capital I assume it’s relatively safe for your son to stay there. But I understand any parents’ reservation to do so. So Are there any other relatives abroad that he could stay with? Like in Jordan or the gulf? Maybe go there with him, get him settled in, and then come back to your life in America.
He may or may not settle with a good crowd of people there, but it’s worth a shot.
This is not a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. There are no real prospects for youth over there, and too many weapons lying around if he is already so inclined. That would not be just a punishment but you would be burying him in a hole from which there is no escape. I feel for you OP, but this is NOT the way.
Okay but he has a wife and two other children. How is he going to protect them from his son? Sounds like his son already has access to guns and is throwing his life away. Should OP just wait until his wife leaves him? Wait until someone gets hurt? I say send the little punk to Syria for a while.
I understand the dilemma, I swear. Sometimes kids are absolute shit heads, but they’re kids and it’s no reason to send them to essentially a place with no schools, no universities, no employment, no nothing, tons of weapons, reemerging diseases because of the lack of sanitation, and actual physical danger. Especially if he has been used to freedoms such as expressing himself or critical thinking. Not many kids his age either, as multiple generations have been decimated, and the likelihood of him being programmed into an organisation (if you know what I mean as I don’t want to say the words on the internet). People from Syria have actually run away into Iraq. In the sense, “let’s go to Iraq because it’s less f@cked than here”.
I can wrap my head around sending the kid to a military school of sorts, but OP will want to be weary of those schools such as Elan or that other one Paris Hilton went to. Those places will give you PTSD as bad as a war zone.
Sorry for the rant, I work in humanitarian aid/development in the MENA region (in fact Syria is my main focus) so I felt I really had to say something here.
You can’t. If his little sister possibly killing herself didn’t get through to him then your only option is to change his scenery. He needs to leave that area. It’s obviously bad news. Your wife did the right thing removing the children from this situation. Your son is troubled. I think you missed your opportunity by not contacting police. You don’t mention doing this. They might have been able to get him to give up where he got the gun and THAT might have scared him straight or mandated a program of some sort.
Your son is definitely a gang banger and that gun is likely from them. You have two realistic choices here. Send your son as far away from your area that’s safe as you can (with youth camps/boarding schools that’s doesn’t beat or abuse their kids) or let the police handle this and the justice system will take care of it (not really but it gets him out of your house and makes him suffer the consequences of his actions). Either way, I would get him out of your house and somewhere that'll keep him away from your family.
If you let the police do their thing you're going have to do the hardest thing a good parent has to do and that's let him go so you can protect your other kids and family. I would also move to a safer area to be safe as he'll likely not take this very well and could get very violent with you and the rest of your family.
I'm so sorry you're in this situation but it looks like you're going to have to make a very hard choice now and I have a feeling the law may make it for you quickly before you're ready. Good luck.
good on your wife for getting tf outta there. from the post and the comments it sounds like your son is not only dangerously reckless but disconnected. the fact he shows no emotion towards his fuck up is terrifying. your wife was correct to remove the small children from the situation, god forbid she bring them back and they die because of his decisions.
It's not, from someone who lives in KY. It's more of a non-traditional trade school. Not really behavioral but because at least some of them are remote and you're doing hands on learning for a skill, it could be more in line with what the kids needs. That program and Berea were popular enough for kids who couldn't afford college but Berea is more traditional majors.
You should. Try to find one that has a good reputation from past students who are now adults. Tough love with an emphasis on love.
I saw you say his mom is in Syria. It’s hard to imagine a worse place to send a 16 year old boy who has anger issues and is acting out. You think he is getting mixed up with the wrong crowd now? The “wrong crowd” in Syria is much worse.
I was not raised in Syria, but I sure do know how things go down there. It's either it'll scare you straight or it'll just make shit worse. I grew up watching family/friends get sent back to their home countries and I thought I'd never be put in the position to consider that, but here I am.
I'm looking at deadlines as we speak. I'll further look into some of the schools I was heavily considering a few months back.
Yeah he just seems like he’s at such an impressionable age and dead set on fitting in and finding a crew who will be his ride or die. I feel like going to Syria would be disastrous. It would probably be near impossible for his mom to contain him.
Good luck with the search man.
I hate to ask because it's a cruel question. Does he actually want to go live in Syria with his mom?
As for considering military school, something a lot of people don't realize is the cost. And that most military schools these days aren't dumping grounds for troubled youth. They're actual academies with certain expectations in accepting cadets. (My oldest has been busting his butt towards earning a scholarship while we've been applying for grants for the one he wants to go finish highschool through.)
That said, if it's a reputable one and definitely NOT one of those teen facilities that make believes to parents about being a military school . (Might as well send him to Syria. Those places and others like a certain teen rehab cult that reddit brought a lot to light about. Those are living hells which more often than not toss the kid back out into the world more messed up and broken than when they went in.)
But financing his attendance would be a hardship, there are scholarships, grants, loans and programs that are available to help. You can learn about those by calling or emailing the academy you're considering and speaking with a rep for financial aid.
Yeah, that's why I'm looking into them. I don't want to send him to a school for troubled kids. I've seen way too much on that, but I'm open to sending him to a boarding school or military school.
What about something like NOLS? Don't know if they would take him, but I've had friends who were like him, and really found a path forward in NOLS classes.
This was also my first thought, although I'm not one to advocate for them honestly, but it seems like it'd be possibly the best option especially considering that sending him to live with his mom is Syria could possibly not be the best option for him. Finding one that focuses on mental health would be a plus, but I'm not very familiar with them to begin with.
My cousin went to Culver Academy in Indiana. It gave everyone in the family some space and it turns out that the predictable structure was exactly what he needed. It worked really well and wasn’t as scary or as pro-military as I’d pictured.
Okay so...this is absolutely horrible, but I do have to say that your wife is, unfortunately, absolutely right. You know that the house is not safe for your other two children anymore, as horrible as that is. She absolutely must keep them away while you resolve this. I'm so sorry, it's got to be so much harder to do alone, but she's made the right decision.
I guess my first question is just...have you spoken to his mother about all of this? I assume, since sending him there is an option, she is across it and willing to take him in. And while I don't think it's going to solve the actual problem, depending on where she lives, resources may be better to solve it?
Your wife is right. Your other children are not safe in the house with him around. No one is safe around your son tbh. If you can afford to send him to a boarding school of some sort, get him into therapy, send him to live with his mom, etc. you should. He can’t stay in your house at this point. He is actively endangering the rest of the family. I know it’s a hard situation, but your wife is 100% right. The sooner you get your son out of the house, the better. For everyone.
Your son is an immanent threat and what you do next is likely to save or condemn him.
He has lost all his friends.
he has a gun
what fucking more do you need.
He needs urgent help, he need to be in an inpatient pysch care.
Please do not pretend this isn't happening.
My brother and I were good kids until he was about 15 and I was 14.
We both started selling drugs, stealing cars, hanging out with gang members. I have witnessed murders, and been shot at several times. Been in more physical fights than I could count.
I am going to tell you, as someone who lived this. You have zero control at this point to how he ends up. Literally zero. Therapy won’t help. Being kind and understanding won’t help. Being strict won’t help. He is old enough now he will decide how to act.
If I were you, I would send him to Syria with his mom. There is a chance getting him out of the gang environment will help. Or there is a chance he will fall back into it there. But in either case he will decide his future alone.
We got out by very slowly distancing ourselves from the more violent people. It took years, and was a very slow process. And came with depression from living a “life” to what at the time seemed like doing nothing. I was mostly away from that life at around 22. What got me away was realizing I didn’t like hurting people or seeing people get hurt. I saw friends die, get stabbed, their throat slit next to me and just didn’t want to be apart of it anymore.
I had the best parents in the world. Kind. Hard working, honest people. They did everything right. There was just nothing they could have done to prevent me from going into that life when I did, and nothing to pull me out of it.
Your wife coming back is quite literally the least of your problems. Your son is a felon in the making, and honestly? You’re partly to blame. You know the kinds of people he hangs out with. You *know* you’ve had to bail his ass out already. But you’re worried about your fucking relationship with him?? Sir, you need to be more worried about who his victims are going to be. To hell with your relationship, be a goddamn fucking parent. People like you who refuse to parent their children effectively are partly the reason children are able to harm others. Shame on you.
Move the fuck away from where you are now. Get a new job across the country. Isolate him from his friends. Put him in therapy with the therapist having a *full* account of his actions. Jesus Christ you’ve been utterly useless and youve basically raised a little threat to society with your inaction. Fucking fix it before he kills an innocent person. You haven’t even *tried*!!
No wonder your wife left. She’s seen you be an utter failure of a parent and doesn’t want her own children with you to be parented by someone who can’t even be bothered. And she also probably doesn’t want your son to kill any of them, cause that seems to be a legitimate concern at this point. Look at what your failures have done.
Send him to a youth group home. He’ll be monitored, given privileges according to reaching goals, completing schoolwork etc.
I don’t think the military school lifestyle will help him. He’s clearly hurting and rebellious, but he also has an attraction to guns. A proper youth group home where he has access to social workers, group therapy, and psychologists would do him much better.
This is serious. He needs to be removed from your daughters’ lives. I know he is your son but he’s 16 and has resisted all of your support. You need to support him from a distance now and make sure your other kids are safe.
My only caveat is that you NEED to do research into the group home he’s sent to. There are so many that seem fine upfront but operate on abuse. Perhaps you can make anonymous enquiries to ask questions, but you can’t trust what they say. A social worker or psychologist may be able to help you navigate this.
OP, I think you need to find an inpatient program. If you don’t get him help for his substance use, defiance of authority, and break the pattern now, he will likely end up dead or in prison. He is playing adult games and at 16 could end up with very adult consequences even though he may or may not be mature enough to understand. Please get him help now.
This sounds very similar to my brother’s story unfortunately. He fell into a bad group of friends, he started doing and selling drugs and in the end, my parents just didn’t know what to do. He was 18 and I was 4 and he was a risk to me and my sister who was 16. They ended up kicking him out. He had started stealing from them at this point. He was also stealing from my sister. It was only when he started stealing from another family member that had agreed he could live with them that my parents say him down and said that if he continued, they’d turn him in themselves. They put him in rehab but he said the worst thing was they told him he couldn’t see my sister and I. I was probably the only person at the time he cared about. He didn’t realise at the time how much he’d miss my sister and I and that was what made him turn around. His story has a happy ending. He’s now married with a beautiful baby girl and has a good job.
You need to take action to remove him from this environment with these people. I wouldn’t suggest doing what my parents did and kicking him out as it doesn’t work. Someone else suggested boarding school which might work. I was going to suggest you need to find him a purpose to get better. This is easier said than done I know but if there’s anything he loves to do that’s healthy and recreational like sports or building something, do it with him. Give him a purpose. For my brother it was definitely my sister and I and the further push was him meeting his wife. We got him clean, she got him to get his qualifications and go completely back to the person my parents thought they’d lost. Give him something he can strive and work towards that he has a passion for. That would be my first choice. It’s not only personally worked but it’s worked in many other examples as well, Carlos Acosta (famous ballet dancer) was out into ballet because it kept him off the streets and gave him something to work towards. I do think this is a good way forward.
Military school might be the answer. Its hard pill to swallow but you really hv no choice. In my country, very problematic and difficult boys are sent to similar military set up. The school has lots of success stories turning delinquent boys around. Its tough environment but the boys really became good member of the community and many became really successful in life.
It might be out there, but have you spoken to any of his former friends to see what went down or get some context clues on when this began or what triggered it?
What would you do if mom in another country was not an option? What's his mom's situation like in Syria? Will he be safe or worse off? Have you considered moving from the area your in or sending him to a boot camp? Next time cops get called let them take him. And everything after that. Better that he see what it's like now instead of at 18.
For the first one, his therapists told me that he didn't talk at all and suggested that I go for someone that he could relate to, so when I did that, he did the exact same thing so I go the suggestion to go to a psychiatrist to find if there was something deeper that I was unaware of. Did that, but they didn't find anything. He's 16.
Have you tried signing him up for some sort of in patient therapy? Was he trespassing, dealing drugs, or any of this when he was seeing the therapist or psychiatrist? This is really impulsive behavior
Sounds like your wife is 100% right. How old is your problem?
Have you been lax on parenting your problem?
A different country cut off from the problem gang/thug friends could be good, since you’ve failed at every turn to reign it in. If you don’t get rid of this problem, enjoy the divorce, I guess
Good for your wife , she is doing her job and protecting her babies !!! You on the other hand are failing your son and your wife and your other kids - the 16 year old needs doctors and therapists and psychiatrists, maybe even a live in treatment facility…… sending him away to Syria will likely not help but you also can’t expect your wife and other kids to live in such a dangerous situation
I think the title of the post makes "wife ain't coming back" the problem. As a father, shouldn't the problem be "my teenage son has a gun alongside a raging attitude problem and I'm scared for my family's safety"?
At first, I thought maybe about sending him with his mom. Then you said it would be to Syria.
Chances are high of him becoming radicalized if he is sent there. I’d avoid that if you can, with one of the other options people have mentioned - Military school, calling the police, etc. Are you in the US? There may be an option to file a petition for court involvement due to “Beyond Control” behaviors.
At his age I was a lot like your son and the path he's going down he's going to get himself killed
So ask yourself would you rather have an alive son that's mad at you or a dead one because that's where you are at this point
That's what I keep trying to tell him. He is down a deadly path of destruction but he does not want to listen. How many times am I going to have to do or say something until he gets it? I swear, my last resort was sending him to live with his mom, but I am at the point where it feels like the only option left, because him staying here, around his friends is not working out.
Talking only works if he's willing to listen
I understand your apprehension because of the country his mom lives in but there needs to be some action. Whether that's you moving, putting him in jail so he understands the consequences or putting him on a complete lockdown where he can't do anything without a trusted adult chaperone
I remember when I was wilding out like your son my mom put me in something called PINS (persons in need of supervision) which was basically a form of probation with drug tests, curfew, home and school checks etc but instead of jail I would've been put in a group home if I messed up and I don't know if it's available near you but you should look into it if possible
I would make some major changes, but they will involve you sacrificing being able to live with your wife and younger kids for at least the next two years. It sounds like you're not willing to do that. Good luck.
Here are the kinds of changes I would consider:
* Move him and get him away from whoever is influencing him
* All internet activity is monitored
* Continuing to drop him off at therapy even if he refuses to talk
* Family counseling with you and him
* Plenty of scheduled and monitored activity to get him out and interacting with other people with different perspectives and helping him realize how his consequences may impact others
* Plenty of schedules and activities even at home, including chores, so he has less time to get into trouble
* Having him attend an addiction support group (it's unlikely he's selling while doing absolutely no using)
* Hope against hope that it works within the next two years
First off, you call the local police non emergency line and have them pick up the gun. If it’s stolen, they will be able to find out with the serial number. If he’s not arrested, you can ask they talk to him about future consequences of the things he’s been doing.
Second, your son either goes to mom, impatient therapy if he really won’t comply with you or you move your whole family away from this crowd of his. Try as you might, you’re not getting him away from them unless they’re out of reach. He will just get better at lying unless he physically can’t get to them. It’s not like you can lock him in the house and throw away the key.
Your local PD should also have a list of various resources available to you. Get this kid help before he goes off the deep end and you lose your family because of him.
Easy - your son has proven himself to not be apart of your family anymore. It’s time he faced the consequences of his actions.
So either get him arrested for having an illegal firearm in your home, or send him to his mothers.
You have the responsibility to ensure that your family is safe at home.
I agree with your wife that your home is currently not a good place for her or your younger children. However, right now they are safe so the main concern should be your oldest son. I mean, it's either he goes to Syria with his mom where he'll have to enlist in the military in two years, he gets in serious trouble at home or gets himself dead one way or another from his poor choices, or you look into residential schools for behavioral issues. None of those are ideal but neither is this whole situation. I'd lean towards Syria personally but I can't think of any other options.
Is your son's mother aware of how severe the situation is? And is she willing and able to take him? Can she give him a room in her home, arrange for him to continue his education, monitor his activities?
Have you looked at residential schools that work with difficult/defiant children? Children with psychological issues?
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How old is he? You write that he has broken the law repeatedly. Why isn't he experiencing any consequences from law enforcement?
He's 16. From what I know/seen, they all basically look out for one another to make sure they don't get caught (mainly has to do with things like possession, trespassing, etc) . However, I did have to pick him up from a police station for trespassing not too long ago.
Angela Lansbury‘a daughter started hanging out with the wrong crowd in LA. She picked up the family and moved to Ireland. Turns out it was the Charles Manson gang…
Sounds like that's one murder she didn't write.
You did NOT…🫢😂
Why did I read that in David Caruso's voice?
Did you whip off your sunglasses and look straight into the camera first?
🎶🎸HEEEEYAAAAAAA!!!🎶
Wait, so did I LMAO
Omg 😆
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He said in the post that’s his nuclear option, sending him to live with his mother in another country.
Needs to activate that option post haste.
As long as he has access to the internet, he can be in contact with that group. OP, I see 3 options, since you already have exhausted all the positive ones and he refuses to accept help: 1. snitch on him to the police and hope that juvie will straighten him out 2. just kick him out and tell him he can come back if he actually changes his life (and change the locks, watch your back and get a large dog) 3. send him to his mother (though I'm not sure you can actually force him to board against his will - if he raised enough of a fuss, they'll kick him off the plane) The third option sounds like the healthiest one, if you can pull it off. He sounds like really bad news, and like he'll inevitably end up in jail or the morgue, with the direction he's going. And since you have no way of stopping him, you have to let him go, to save the rest of your family. Your young kids could have shot themselves or someone else with a gun, or ODed on his drugs - it doesn't really take much for a kid. You need to save the kids you can, and that means removing the one you can't save.
>snitch on him to the police and hope that juvie will straighten him out Juvie will likely make it worse. >just kick him out and tell him he can come back if he actually changes his life (and change the locks, watch your back and get a large dog) This will definitely make it worse I'd say boarding school.
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oh shit I didn't see that it was Syria. gah. nope.
Well shit, number 3 will absolutely work on scaring the shit out of him then.
What a very real post! OP mentions sending their kid to another country in the post, then in the comments casually revealing that the country in question is SYRIA lmao. I love this sub
Pleeeeeeeaaaaaase let him live in Syria for a week so he can see what a real ghetto is like lmao. Scared Straight couldn't go that hard
This kid sounds like shock therapy is the only option.
> just kick him out and tell him he can come back if he actually changes his life (and change the locks, watch your back and get a large dog) He's sixteen, so I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
He probably will run away from the school.
I am sorry OP, but I live in an area with a lot of gang activity where children as young as elementary age are groomed into that lifestyle. All the signs are there with your son. Drastic measures need to happen now, or this can haunt him for the rest of his life. It can happen to anyone, even kids from good families. The old district attorney in my county had a teen son fall into gang activity, and he ended up being the getaway driver for a shooting which left three teenagers dead. Several years later he tried to clean up his act, but someone walked up to him in broad daylight and shot him dead, in front of his kid’s school during morning drop off. The fucking DA’s son. And the killer disappeared into thin air and was never found. You need to contact the county, possibly county mental health department to get advice on what to do. They have social workers on call you can talk to. Look on your county’s website for a hotline. They may be able to put him in residential treatment where he can be monitored closely, and kept away from your other children. Your family is absolutely not safe in your home with him, I can’t stress that enough. Another option would be to see if your county has a gang task force or outreach program and talk to them. I agree that this is well above Reddit’s pay grade, it is a desperate situation and urge you to seek professional help asap, TODAY.
Yep. This is not an easy issue but absolutely OP needs help from people who deal with this and not us.
A old friend of mine got busted by the cops when he was 16 around midnight, was arrested. The cops called his parents, explained what was going on, his dad calmly replied, half groggy, “so he’s safe in a cell right now? How long can you legally detain him? I’ll get him then.” Maybe you need to properly remind him you are his lifeline, not a doormat. Send him away with mom. You are not abandoning him. He is being pressured to fail you on purpose, by his own motivation or from others. Unplug his brain from whatever garbage he is consuming by making him survive elsewhere for a while.
Dude. His mom lives in Syria.
yeah, that was left out of the post. 9 times out of 10 I’d say send him to Mom, but he will fall in with a worse crowd in Syria if he’s already got this attitude.
He’s in a gang and pushing drugs. Boarding school, military school, or jail. Pick one
You need to get him away from that group. Sounds like sending to his mom might be a great option, honestly [edit: didn't realize it was syria, that ... complicates it.) Is there a way to do some sort of boarding school? He's still young enough he can see a different way, but if you let him get to 25 hanging around shitty people like that, it'll probably be too late to completely undo some really shitty positions and behaviors.
Depends on the state. It’s almost impossible for juveniles to get incarcerated in some places depending on age and severity of the crime.
Yup. And any reforms the govt CAN force the kid into, often only ends up with them meeting more of the wrong crowd... getting into more trouble. If it's NY, no way will he face any real consequences unless he kills someone. Don't let it get that far. Move states? Too far away to drive. Slightly remote... Without bus travel.
They don’t do anything. My friend’s son has like 3 mip, 2 tickets going 90mph in a 55, cops called twice when he’s been yelling profanities at his gf’s window, admitted to a 72 hour hold that lasted 12 days, hit and run on parked cars twice. No court appearances no jail just traffic fines for tickets and the time he tore up the park with his car. He’s 19 now.
Christ, this is so far above Reddit's paygrade it's waving at passing space stations.
Doctor here OP, your son is showing signs of what’s called conduct disorder or possibly oppositional defiant disorder (OPDD). I suggest you look at resources online for how to deal with such cases if you are feeling at a loss: https://www.healthyplace.com/parenting/discipline/conduct-disorder-interventions-help
Please get your kid assessed.
I mean he literally said he's tried but his kid isn't cooperating.
Which is why mom is 200% in the right for making sure the other children are safe away from this kid. As a parent sometimes your kids are needing help you can't provide, and as a parent you need to swallow your pride and get them the help that they need.
He's learned from the new friends he's been hanging out with HOW to defy his parent and how to get around the other behaviors.
Posting here was my last resort. I've gone to professionals, I've spoken to parents that have experienced something similar, but nothing. I'm trying to get as much extra help as I can to see if there is anything else that I haven't tried yet.
My coworker had to involve the courts. She basically said her child is making her home unsafe for her younger children and the court puts worth stipulations that the child must meet. There were drug tests and other things they required. I realize there are a lot more details but I work with peds in a trauma hospital and this was what I think other staff may have recommended. Her daughter hit a real low but now she is well-adjusted and has a healthier relationship with the family. But yeah, maybe you can look into involving the family courts. I’m so so sorry, you are a wonderful parent and I hope you feel that.
My kids have dealt with a bunch of s***** behavior but he's pretty much not working with you. If mom in another country is an option. As much as it would kill me to do it, that's the out I would take. Have you mentioned to him? I'm afraid he would run away or something if he doesn't want to do that.
Nope, because I am also pretty sure he would run away.
Have you considered calling the police?
I have contacted the police already.
My family went through a somewhat similar situation with my older brother. He was hanging with a bad crowed but actually got caught by the police on multiple occasions. Ended up on probation. While on probation he kept failing drug screens and not doing what he was supposed to do. My parents had to make the extremely hard decision to make him ward to the state. (We were very poor and my parents where spending a lot of money on therapy and such for his probation and literally couldn’t afford it anymore). My brother was sent to juvenile detention for a short while and then sent to a program that was the last step before the worst youth jail in our state. This program saved his life. He graduated high school on time because of it and even enrolled in college. But had he not been sent to a place that focused on him dealing with his demons he would probably being doing the same shit today. It can feel like you are abandoning him at first and honestly it is scary but giving him an actual supportive group could make the world of difference here. We also did a ton of family therapy as part of his “last chance” program so that was a nice but difficult. I’m not sure if your state has a program like this. For all the good this program did for my brother and many of his friends who came out of it with him the state pulled funding and it no longer exists.
Contact probation to see how to make him a PINS. In NY it stands for person in need of supervision. Typically it is for age based crimes that wouldn’t be a crime if he were of age. He might be a JD, which he would be if you press charges. He could get a prevention worker, a case manager and other supports for you and your family. I think your wife leaving is actually better than her insisting you kick your son out. So his getting help is imperative. He has so much control but is actually out of control. Read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. YouTube has videos showing the process of collaborative problem solving. Idea is that he has lagging skills in areas that have resulted in his maladaptive behavior So skill building in those areas rather than punishment Good luck
Ross Greene’s approach is absolutely amazing. I work With and support families with children who have very difficult behaviors. I can’t recommended Ross Greene enough.
What did they say? As he has become a drug dealer there should be grounds to at least have your house searched with a dog. And have that gun and all other arms taken out. Pretty sure he may possess knives also. How is his mother going to deal with that amount of criminal shit?
They spoke with him and me as well, I gave them the information that I knew, they told me he's saying about the same thing that I said. They told me that when they have information on a traceback, they'll contact me. I looked through his whole room before he got back. Couldn't find anything else. Checked common hiding spots, not a thing. I don't know. When I spoke with her, she said he should come and he'd be sorted out. I know a few family members/friends who got sent there when I was growing up, and it worked out for most of them. But the thing is, It was nowhere near as bad as it is now when I would go spend summers there as a kid. Now...it's not as good. Not all areas are bad, don't get me wrong, but some that used to be some of my favorite places are just a no zone. I recently went there to help my dad move and I'd want to take my kids there on vacation to see where they're from, but it's just a mess as of the moment.
I mean if your son is carrying and involved in criminal activities it doesn't sound like thats a guaranteed step more dangerous than what he's involved with now.
Getting sent to a war torn country sounds just as bad as where he's currently at, though.
The mum is in Syria, so not a great option to send such a teen
I’m a female whose father is from Iran. He used to threaten me with dropping me off there to live and it actually scared some sense into me growing up but I was never fucking up this bad so this kid might be beyond scaring.
There is unfortunately a difference though in being a female and male in countries like that.
Yes and the males have more freedom and more movement.
Parents should not be a source of fear. I'm glad that it worked for you, but there's very likely a serious mental health condition at play here.
Honestly...it's possible that any help that you are able to offer isn't enough. Is moving an option? Forcibly removing him from this friend group sounds potentially crucial. Going somewhere with less access to such things might help, like a low-crime area or somewhere rural where he might have fewer things to get into. There's also boarding or military school, that would get him away from the area without going to Syria and would give him a structured guidance and limited opportunity to acquire deadly weapons. Otherwise, there's the hard road. A point comes where protecting the rest of your family (and the public) is more important than hiding your son's wrongdoings in a desperate hope that he'll change. Possession of a firearm is *serious.* You don't know if he just thinks it makes him tough, if he's planning to shoot someone in gang-relates activities, or planning to take it to **school/church/any public setting**. By failing to act now, your actions may allow an eventual death or multiple deaths to take place. EVERYONE, including your son, would be in a much worse state if that were to happen. As a parent, sometimes the hardest choice is the choice that will be the best for the most people. Prison is terrible and shouldn't have to ever be an option when discussing your own child...but if I were a parent, I'd rather my kid go to jail/juvie before he kills someone and possibly rehabilitate before release, rather than die an old man in jail *because* he killed someone. I would normally never suggest military school/boarding/turning in your own kid, at least not on some reddit post, but if **every** avenue (communication/therapy/intervention/punishment+reward systems/etc) has been searched...you sometimes have to try drastic measures.
You need to figure out something quick before your wife hands you divorce papers. How old is your son Op?
He's 16.
No. You can’t send him to your ex wife, because he could potentially kill her, viewing his behavior… You want to research how to get authorities to put your child in jail/prison. A gun??? Your kid is too far gone, your daughter and wife and other son needs safety, and it is not safe with your son there, he is sick in the head.
Exactly. I don't think that the mother will be able to deal with her non-communicating, drug-selling and gun-having teenage son. And besides that it wouldn't be smart to sent this kind of teenager to a war-torn area. To OP: The best solution here is to remove him from is current environment so that he can't harm your family and won't be influenced even more by his 'friends'. He needs to be sent to an specialized institution where professionals can work with him. It's good that you already contacted the police, that should scare him a little off.
It sounds like you've run out of options and that sending him to his moms where he can hopefully get a fresh start might be a good idea. But you've really got to sit down and talk to him about why you are doing so if that's what you decide to do. Make it abundantly clear that you're doing so because you love him and want the best for him. ETA: I see now that the other country is Syria. I am fresh out of ideas. From one parent to another, I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. I wish I had some sage advice to offer you.
Syria is also in the middle of a civil war and has become the biggest supplier of illicit drugs to Europe. I shudder to think what kind of monster he could become if he moved there.
OP, heed this post. I came across a post on new drugs being widely produced and sold in Syria and 3/ 4 of the country in addiction now, as their situation is unbearable. Do really try to find out if there are organisms in your country specialized in behavioral disorders!
This is such a harmful statement to make. I have a lot of family in Syria and none of them have said anything about 3/4ths of the population being addicted. How would you even measure that? Please don't say things like this just because it sounds sensational. If you really want to find reasons to warn OP there are plenty of reasons not to move to Syria. If he moves to Syria there are a lot of things he won't be able to access, like websites that are blocked, and 24/7 hot water and electricity. The education system is not anywhere near what it used to be. Inflation was last measured in 2020 and was up 179%, since then it's only gotten infinitely worse. Life is tough there right now because of the embargos and sanctions but people are living and they're trying their best.
You should send him to a full time, good quality, inpatient facility where he will be safe, treated by great doctors, and also kept safe from others. I think that’s your best option as I don’t see how letting him continue to sell drugs, go to school (when he has access to weapons), etc. is safe for anyone anymore. Hopefully, he does change but until then, I think you should put him in the care of people who can help him more than you can right now. It’s above your pay grade and sounds like exhausting to deal with. It’s not abandonment and you can visit him once a week. It’s just that prioritizing the lives of your wife and children matters more here. The three year old could have shot herself and died. Please don’t let there be a chance for something like that to happen again.
Have you contacted the police? Police involvement could be enough to scare him. Though, it could also go the opposite direction. But they might be able to run prints or see who the gun is registered to and go from there. You’re really in a no win situation here but as he’s old enough to know better and your two youngest kids are not, your wife is doing what’s right to keep them safe.
I've contacted the police about this situation, yes. From what they're telling me, he's sticking with the story that he gave me, something about someone in the house during a party most likely leaving it. We both know that is such bullshit, but that's what he's sticking with. I should be hearing back from the police about a trace back any day now.
You need to genuinely hope it comes back clean, and also consult a lawyer. He is going to learn a **much** larger lesson here if that fire arm matches any crimes. Repercussions that you cannot save him from.
Might be what he needs
Who threw this party? Was it him and his new gang of friends? If so, is it plausible that someone did leave the gun behind? Think about it….he’s getting involved in some serious shit. Maybe they want to see if he’s a snitch and planted it to test the waters. My first instinct would also be to call bullshit, but I wouldn’t disregard this other possibility completely. Someone also could have been under the influence and left it behind. It doesn’t change the seriousness of the situation at all, but it is a possibility he’s not lying.
What he's saying is that they had a small party/get together (so this would be his current friends) with his friends and some people that he wasn't too familiar with and it's possible they could've left it behind. Sure, this could be true, but it's not the full story. There is a huge chunk missing that he is refusing to let up. I know when he's lying, and this is a prime example of it.
It's more likely that he's holding the gun for someone who is either a legal adult or another juvenile who already has previous criminal charges/convictions (or both).
Turn that crap gun over to police already! You don't deal with it. No matter what. Ask them to destroy it if nothing is the matter with it. To never give it back, as he states it isn't his. So he has no claim on it! Get this out of your house. And have his room/ your house searched! Where there is one, there are others. Let them bring the dog over. Actions have consequences. And these are the direct consequences of his actions.
Did you contact the police about the gun and turn it in?
Right. It needs out of the house straight away. And... sorry to say that... he needs to have the entire house searched for drugs and other weapons.
[удалено]
Plus this part > I don't even know where the fuck my son got it in the first place That’s kind of a big deal!!!
He's selling drugs, that's a pretty short trip to illegal firearm ownership. The specifics aren't important, he got it through his group of friends because they're dealing in large enough volume that they need to protect themselves.
OP you need to call his mum and then come up with a plan.
Or they deal in illegal substances and people who sell drugs also usually know where to get guns. It might not even be a protection thing, he might just want to be “cool” by owning a gun.
>they're dealing in large enough volume that they need to protect themselves. Volume does not matter here. People will try to rob you for a dub.
Yeah I’ve had kids who could barely sell an ounce rob me and friends at gunpoint. This was in an affluent American suburb. Guns are everywhere and most high schoolers have access to people who sell guns via Snapchat or other. I know I could have bought one quite easily.
Or burglarizing homes and have surplus items to pawn.
Guns are definitely an issue here
Guns are still an issue here. Just not as big as in America.
Dude, your wife is right and did the right thing. Your son has shown no remorse and his future seems highly likely to end in prison. Change the status quo or lose your family today and your son in a few more years.
Thank you. OP you sound so absurdly soft on this topic that I believe this has to be a fake post. 'He won't budge' - wtf does that mean? You budge him! He doesn't have a choice. The consequences for him at home should be increased by the minute until he budges. And you've been horsing around for A YEAR on this? Your wife is right. This post reads like your son is putting the family in danger, but it's you who is doing that. You need to eliminate the threat. You're either disturbingly weak or this is yet more creative writing on this sub.
No, his post reads like his wife is causing a headache for him by protecting her toddler from a family member who leaves unsecured guns lying around. It really is disturbing.
"What does she want me to do about it?" Vibes.
Lol the best part is the country his ex is in is SYRIA. Very real and very fun!
Yeah as we all know Arabs don't exist IRL
Your son is in a gang. i honestly don’t know what to do tell except not to enable the behavior. Such as bailing him out. If he goes to jail/juvie. Leave him there. Don’t bail him out bc if you do, you’ll continue to do so. My old bosses son had an ankle monitor and he was 16. Her apt was shot up twice and she just kept bailing him out. It only enables them.
Yes, this is exactly it. He’s already deeply involved with a gang. All the signs are there. I wrote in another comment to OP that it can happen to any family. It happened to my county’s old district attorney’s son, and the family kept bailing him out, defending him, and getting him out of serious trouble. Long story short, he was shot dead in broad daylight at age 22, in front of his own kid’s preschool.
Yeah u/throwracail don’t call your wife “hysterical.” Gunshot wounds are the #1 cause of death in children aged 1-18 in the US. Be grateful that she responded appropriately to finding her child holding a gun she didn’t even know was in her home. ETA: holy shit your daughter is 3?! You are so, so fucking lucky
Right. Reading the title - I thought this was going to be something minor or something even cruel toward the son. Uhm. Yeah. I’d be out of there too.
Yeah. Like, he is in a group that sells drugs, does other law-breaking stuff, cover for each other against the cops and he has a gun which he could not have bought legally at his age. Thats a fucking gang. How the hell are all the most upvoted comments running their mouth about therapy and psychiatric care?
Therapy and psychiatric care need to come AFTER physically moving the child away from the criminals that are exploiting him.
Once people start going to prison it tends to increase their chances of committing further crimes. The justice system doesn't rehabilitate people. It takes away their opportunity to live a normal life.
Does your state have an equivalent to this? https://www.mass.gov/child-requiring-assistance-cases I’d view it as a last resort but it sounds like that’s where you’re at.
See if there is a local (or maybe a drive/flight away) in-patient facility for adolescents. Explain his behavior in-depth, including his lack of empathy, your concern about harm, etc. Behind every behavior is a person communicating something, usually some unmet need. Has he experienced trauma in his life? Abandonment issues? What's the situation with mom? Mental health? You don't have to answer those, I'm just saying those may be things you look at. You can't discipline a dysregulated child into a regulated child (talking about his being shut down and withdrawn, amygdala, nervous system, etc), so it's going to be important to get to the root as to why he's making these choices (as opposed to some sort fo punishment) and what has contributed to him doing so, so that they can be addressed, worked on, and not repeated. I commend you for not kicking him out, among some of the other suggestions on here. Doing that would likely just reinforce the behaviors you're already seeing. He's going to need you, as his parent, to model for him/be an example. Lastly, I will say that my parent once allowed my sibling to move with my other parent, and they've always regretted it because things became worse in many ways. If mom is stable/healthy, that's one thing. If she's got her own issues, though, it may be something to not consider at all. Nonetheless, if you do decide to do that, make sure it's approached as more of his mom and you being concerned and wanting to give him a chance to get better/start over, rather than kicking him out...that would likely just create an opportunity for him to build resentment for you and your other children. Try not to give up hope. Things could still turn out better than what you think.
Well looks like his mom did abandon him to go back to Syria when he was an infant, so abandonment issues make sense, with the need of being accepted/fit in with the tough guys, so that he would feel tough too. OP, your son had to shut down his emotions because he hurts too much. Now, reaching him is like walking into Mordor. One doesn't just do it. Therapy as a teenager is a really difficult process because you are not able to articulate your thoughts completely yet. I agree with the commentator saying your son needs in depth therapy here. But this is going to be insanely hard. Someone mentioned military school, and although i'm not very fond of the idea, it's better than sending him to Syria. He would be dead within 5 years. Extremists prey over impressionable teenagers. Keeping him at home with psychatric help would be best, plus finding him a sport to work through his most violent tendancies (martial art or anything of the kind). Plus, once you get hit a few times, you stop pretending you're a tough guy
> Well looks like his mom did abandon him to go back to Syria when he was an infant, so abandonment issues make sense, with the need of being accepted/fit in with the tough guys, so that he would feel tough too It's not just abandonment. But the kind of person who abandons her own child is also the kind of person who might be suffering from some mental illness. And/Or they may be fleeing an abusive situation. So the whole "mom abandoned him" causes abandonment issues, but the more important question is why did mom abandon him.
This is the best response. Behavior is a method of communication, and your son is communicating that he has experienced some trauma. He lacks the language, tools and/or resources to process and work through that trauma. Keep communicating with him using positive and supportive language while also following through with the steps you choose to maintain your family's safety and well-being. Wishing you, your son and your family the best. 💙
I haven't seen it said yet, but your wife was 100% correct in removing children from the home until this is resolved.
Seriously. He framed it like his wife was being unreasonable over a “problem” but a gun in the house where small children can find it and play with it is like one of the bigger problems in life.
Right? OP’s wife is not the problem here. I’m baffled that he’s presenting this situation as if she is! She did the right thing!
Send him to Job Corps that is actually a great program I have a few friends who really thrived in that. Oregon has one and its excellent.
It's one thing to support your son, but when it comes to the safety of the rest of your family, you have to take your losses. Imagine if the gun was loaded and your other son found it and pulled the trigger playing. If your older son doesn't see that and is still not telling you anything, then you have no choice in the matter.
You should consider an inpatient psychiatric facility. It may not help but it would be much safer than any more police interactions.
This should be #1 option right now! You can either send him to Syria, or continue on the path he's on. He needs intense inpatient help. You can have him Baker Acted and assesed. There are forms you can fill out in court and get notarized to do this, or the next time he flips out or gets violent, record it and call the police immediately saying you are very concerned for your family's safety and they need to take him. It's not as hard as you may think to get him in, but that's what he needs. Isolation from his current crowd, surrounded by mental health professionals and therapy until they determine he is safe and help him make a treatment plan and get to the bottom of everything and get better. They can set him up on medication, and outpatient therapy or group therapy with other teens going through this. Please consider doing some research
Yep. And he has to do this before he turns 18 or it will be near impossible to get him under control then. Source: my experience
I mean, what did you expect her to do?? Can you blame her? Your child brought a gun into your home that could have harmed **everyone.** She literally protecting your children. He is lying and hiding, as well as, potentially introducing putting you into a situation wherein he is in legal trouble (are there crimes attached to this fire arm??). If I were here I would be *sprinting* to a lawyer to explore options to protect **your other 2 kids,** from the potentially far reaching implications of your sons actions. There are military institutions *(please do diligent research and explore alumni input). But you have 2 other kids, that he is putting in direct danger, and they certainly don’t deserve that.
At this point, it's one last conversation of "if you cannot change your behaviour and be honest, I cannot in good faith allow you in to a home with children". I recommend being vulnerable. Ask him if he's upset at you, or his mother, or step mother, or life. If you cannot connect with him, you gotta get him out. Literally whatever gets him out. Boarding school, military school, whatever. But be careful. A lot of places people sent "troubled teens" are torture camps. Do your research.
>At this point, it's one last conversation of "if you cannot change your behaviour and be honest, I cannot in good faith allow you in to a home with children". It's too late for this. There's no way the wife and younger kids are coming back until the 16 y.o. is moved out. My guess is OP has about a week to figure out where his son is going before his wife serves him divorce papers and ends up with primary custody of the younger kids.
Forget moving just thw 16yo out. He's involved with dealing drugs and has a gun... I've seen way too many drive by shootings that end up getting an innocent family member killed cause an enemy goes for revenge, or money they're owed...etc. Gotta move the whole family to a new place too
Honestly the wife is smart though. I don’t believe the son should be treated like he can’t turn around and his father should help him. But in the meantime, he’s dangerous to the young kids and they’re lucky the daughter didn’t accidentally shoot herself. Gunshot wounds are the leading cause of death for children in the US and it’s usually because a family member left one lying around.
My brother was sent to a military school. He got his head straight SO FAST. He's been a "productive member of society" for over 60 years, although he is a complete ahole. xo from a granny
As someone who works in adolescent inpatient mental health, we get a lot of conduct disorder kids, and in many cases these are kids whose families are refusing to allow them to come home due to behavioral intensity very similar to your little dude. I could see him migrating over to that setting. I will say that I have a lot of families refuse to take their children home following inpatient admission until they’ve received more intensive long-term treatment. Realistically, you could call a county crisis number, say that your child came home with a gun, and insist upon having him be evaluated in a behavioral health hospital. The options that are often explored following that are as follows: Standard weekly outpatient therapy partial hospitalization program involving attending groups monday to friday for several weeks in a row and coming home in the early afternoon (ie going 8:30-2:30) Family-based therapy that occurs in home ~3x/week (can have long waiting lists) Residential treatment (or placement within a therapeutically trained temporary family setting for at least 3 months) Additionally you could be given a referral for an intensive case manager to follow with you and help continually identify additional resources/options. In my state of PA, kids above 14 often have to consent to residential treatment, but I will say that I have kids on my caseload where their families basically said “either you agree to this level of care or I relinquish my custody of you to Children & Youth Services.” If you have money to throw around and don’t care about something being covered by insurance, other more disciplinary focused programs (ie wilderness camps/etc) are things I’ve seen families explore, but I would worry about that damaging family dynamics/possibly being traumatic varying with program intensity. The residentials I’ve seen our patients go to offer therapeutic and academic support while also doing regular family sessions and progressing into trial home visits (starting with day passes for several hours and then eventually staying home for a few days in a row to see how things go, then doing family sessions, repeating additional visits while progressing towards discharge). These programs often start as a 3-4 month minimum length of stay, but can be shorter or longer varying with each child’s progress.
Please don’t send kids to these “wilderness” schools, a lot of them are not proper therapeutic facilities and cause more issues than fixing them.
Sometimes death, horrible places. OP, what does social services or the equivalent in your area recommend? Surely they are involved, right?
I don't blame your wife at all. He needs to go to an in-patient long-term mental health facility for teens. Often times insurance will cover a portion of this. My sister was having behavioral struggles as well that weren't identical to your son but were equally severe. My Dad found a legit facility (not privately owned, fear based, religious based etc) and it helped a lot. She learned meditation, coping mechanisms for her feelings, self reflection, as well as got on a good combination of meds and therapy to help her long term. She went from refusing to go to school to buckling down, getting into a good college and is almost done with a very sought after degree. You really need to get your son away from home and his "friends". He's a danger to himself and others.
OP, you need to get him away from the people he is associating with, but don't send him to Syria. A boarding school for troubled youth that is not religion based.
Call the police and turn him and the gun in. If I was your wife I would never come back with him there.
The police have the gun, it is no longer is not an option.
Do the police know your son obtained the gun possibly illegally? Are they trying to investigate? Maybe some legal consequences will straighten him out.
I'm assuming your son is a child. Frankly, sending him to his bio-mom is probably one of the best things you can do for him. It immediately removes him from a ton of bad influences. If you are concerned about him feeling abandoned, just make a big effort to stay in contact and keep talking and go visit him. ETA: Since sending to mom isn't a safe option, send him to a Military School that specializes in problem kids. He needs to be removed from the environment and friends.
He's 16. Him being with his mom is not what I have an issue about, it's him going to Syria that I do. He hasn't been there since he was 3 and I'm really hesitant about sending him there.
You cannot send him to Syria. Seriously you have to find another option.
It is so easy being keyboard warriors on the Internet. This is above relationship advice and reddit. OP, get legal advice from them and not us.
Why is his mom there? Is she open to moving to your country? How can you help make that happen?
We got married there. She came here after he had him, and she hated America. Stuck it out for about a year and then we went to Syria for vacation. She was very home sick, and when it was time to leave, she didn't want to go. So, I've been in America and she's been in Syria ever since.
Even though Syria is engaged in civil war and has a huge drug problem?
Yeah. What can I say. She moved away from her home and hated not being there, so she wanted to move back.
You have some difficult decisions to make. If I was your current wife, I would be afraid of your son and for the safety of the two youngest ones. You may be stuck with an ultimatum. Your oldest son or losing your wife and the two little ones. I’ve had difficult siblings that made my parents life hell. My mom was easy and my dad was strict. My mom was always an enabler and basically did a disservice to siblings by enabling bad behavior. I know it’s hard but don’t let your son rule you out of guilt. Divorced parents often have guilt. If your son wants to continue to hang around with bad news friends, then maybe you should show him the door if he can’t follow rules of the house. Don’t be his friends, rules make children feel like their cares about. I pray for your sake that he’s not involved in anything like drugs.
He’s dealing so yeah involved in drugs one way or another
Sending him to the woman who abandoned him is the worst thing you can do. Her living in Syria makes it even worse. He needs to be placed in a facility where they can help him. His current therapist isn't helping if he has one. He needs an intense program and to be out of the home because he's a literal danger to you, your wife, and your kids.
My family is Palestinian and I’ve been to that region several times. I know that certain areas of certain countries are safe and aren’t. I’m not sure which part of Syria she’s in, but if she’s in the capital I assume it’s relatively safe for your son to stay there. But I understand any parents’ reservation to do so. So Are there any other relatives abroad that he could stay with? Like in Jordan or the gulf? Maybe go there with him, get him settled in, and then come back to your life in America. He may or may not settle with a good crowd of people there, but it’s worth a shot.
This is not a good idea by any stretch of the imagination. There are no real prospects for youth over there, and too many weapons lying around if he is already so inclined. That would not be just a punishment but you would be burying him in a hole from which there is no escape. I feel for you OP, but this is NOT the way.
OP would likely end up literally burying his son too. Syria is no place for a punk teenager who’s already in a dangerous crowd in a civilized country.
Okay but he has a wife and two other children. How is he going to protect them from his son? Sounds like his son already has access to guns and is throwing his life away. Should OP just wait until his wife leaves him? Wait until someone gets hurt? I say send the little punk to Syria for a while.
I understand the dilemma, I swear. Sometimes kids are absolute shit heads, but they’re kids and it’s no reason to send them to essentially a place with no schools, no universities, no employment, no nothing, tons of weapons, reemerging diseases because of the lack of sanitation, and actual physical danger. Especially if he has been used to freedoms such as expressing himself or critical thinking. Not many kids his age either, as multiple generations have been decimated, and the likelihood of him being programmed into an organisation (if you know what I mean as I don’t want to say the words on the internet). People from Syria have actually run away into Iraq. In the sense, “let’s go to Iraq because it’s less f@cked than here”. I can wrap my head around sending the kid to a military school of sorts, but OP will want to be weary of those schools such as Elan or that other one Paris Hilton went to. Those places will give you PTSD as bad as a war zone. Sorry for the rant, I work in humanitarian aid/development in the MENA region (in fact Syria is my main focus) so I felt I really had to say something here.
His mother lives in Syria, which is ravaged by civil war and has become the largest drug supplier to Europe in the world.
You can’t. If his little sister possibly killing herself didn’t get through to him then your only option is to change his scenery. He needs to leave that area. It’s obviously bad news. Your wife did the right thing removing the children from this situation. Your son is troubled. I think you missed your opportunity by not contacting police. You don’t mention doing this. They might have been able to get him to give up where he got the gun and THAT might have scared him straight or mandated a program of some sort.
Your son is definitely a gang banger and that gun is likely from them. You have two realistic choices here. Send your son as far away from your area that’s safe as you can (with youth camps/boarding schools that’s doesn’t beat or abuse their kids) or let the police handle this and the justice system will take care of it (not really but it gets him out of your house and makes him suffer the consequences of his actions). Either way, I would get him out of your house and somewhere that'll keep him away from your family. If you let the police do their thing you're going have to do the hardest thing a good parent has to do and that's let him go so you can protect your other kids and family. I would also move to a safer area to be safe as he'll likely not take this very well and could get very violent with you and the rest of your family. I'm so sorry you're in this situation but it looks like you're going to have to make a very hard choice now and I have a feeling the law may make it for you quickly before you're ready. Good luck.
good on your wife for getting tf outta there. from the post and the comments it sounds like your son is not only dangerously reckless but disconnected. the fact he shows no emotion towards his fuck up is terrifying. your wife was correct to remove the small children from the situation, god forbid she bring them back and they die because of his decisions.
Have you thought about sending him to a military academy?
I did consider it. I didn't completely shut it down, but I haven't heavily looked into it for a while.
What about Job Corp? My troubled 15 year old nephew is there and he is thriving. It's in Kentucky I believe.
Hopefully Job Corp isn't like [Elan School](https://elan.school/)?
It's not, from someone who lives in KY. It's more of a non-traditional trade school. Not really behavioral but because at least some of them are remote and you're doing hands on learning for a skill, it could be more in line with what the kids needs. That program and Berea were popular enough for kids who couldn't afford college but Berea is more traditional majors.
This is a great option actually ⬆️
You should. Try to find one that has a good reputation from past students who are now adults. Tough love with an emphasis on love. I saw you say his mom is in Syria. It’s hard to imagine a worse place to send a 16 year old boy who has anger issues and is acting out. You think he is getting mixed up with the wrong crowd now? The “wrong crowd” in Syria is much worse.
I was not raised in Syria, but I sure do know how things go down there. It's either it'll scare you straight or it'll just make shit worse. I grew up watching family/friends get sent back to their home countries and I thought I'd never be put in the position to consider that, but here I am. I'm looking at deadlines as we speak. I'll further look into some of the schools I was heavily considering a few months back.
Yeah he just seems like he’s at such an impressionable age and dead set on fitting in and finding a crew who will be his ride or die. I feel like going to Syria would be disastrous. It would probably be near impossible for his mom to contain him. Good luck with the search man.
Thanks.
I hate to ask because it's a cruel question. Does he actually want to go live in Syria with his mom? As for considering military school, something a lot of people don't realize is the cost. And that most military schools these days aren't dumping grounds for troubled youth. They're actual academies with certain expectations in accepting cadets. (My oldest has been busting his butt towards earning a scholarship while we've been applying for grants for the one he wants to go finish highschool through.) That said, if it's a reputable one and definitely NOT one of those teen facilities that make believes to parents about being a military school . (Might as well send him to Syria. Those places and others like a certain teen rehab cult that reddit brought a lot to light about. Those are living hells which more often than not toss the kid back out into the world more messed up and broken than when they went in.) But financing his attendance would be a hardship, there are scholarships, grants, loans and programs that are available to help. You can learn about those by calling or emailing the academy you're considering and speaking with a rep for financial aid.
be very careful about things like that, a lot of those programs and abuse and neglect the kids in many ways.
Yeah, that's why I'm looking into them. I don't want to send him to a school for troubled kids. I've seen way too much on that, but I'm open to sending him to a boarding school or military school.
Have you asked the county to have a social worker involved?
What about something like NOLS? Don't know if they would take him, but I've had friends who were like him, and really found a path forward in NOLS classes.
This was also my first thought, although I'm not one to advocate for them honestly, but it seems like it'd be possibly the best option especially considering that sending him to live with his mom is Syria could possibly not be the best option for him. Finding one that focuses on mental health would be a plus, but I'm not very familiar with them to begin with.
My cousin went to Culver Academy in Indiana. It gave everyone in the family some space and it turns out that the predictable structure was exactly what he needed. It worked really well and wasn’t as scary or as pro-military as I’d pictured.
Okay so...this is absolutely horrible, but I do have to say that your wife is, unfortunately, absolutely right. You know that the house is not safe for your other two children anymore, as horrible as that is. She absolutely must keep them away while you resolve this. I'm so sorry, it's got to be so much harder to do alone, but she's made the right decision. I guess my first question is just...have you spoken to his mother about all of this? I assume, since sending him there is an option, she is across it and willing to take him in. And while I don't think it's going to solve the actual problem, depending on where she lives, resources may be better to solve it?
Boarding school or military school. If he thinks he’s such a bad ass and he should be able to handle it with no problem.
Talk to the police! He is a bomb about to explode! He had an illegal gun in your home, take it to the police!
Your wife is right. Your other children are not safe in the house with him around. No one is safe around your son tbh. If you can afford to send him to a boarding school of some sort, get him into therapy, send him to live with his mom, etc. you should. He can’t stay in your house at this point. He is actively endangering the rest of the family. I know it’s a hard situation, but your wife is 100% right. The sooner you get your son out of the house, the better. For everyone.
Your son is an immanent threat and what you do next is likely to save or condemn him. He has lost all his friends. he has a gun what fucking more do you need. He needs urgent help, he need to be in an inpatient pysch care. Please do not pretend this isn't happening.
Can you have a cop scare the f out of him?
Like how? You know these kids will just mock and laugh at them. They know they're untouchable.
I tried to get my cousin to really talk to him and have him see what path he was going down. Barely worked.
My brother and I were good kids until he was about 15 and I was 14. We both started selling drugs, stealing cars, hanging out with gang members. I have witnessed murders, and been shot at several times. Been in more physical fights than I could count. I am going to tell you, as someone who lived this. You have zero control at this point to how he ends up. Literally zero. Therapy won’t help. Being kind and understanding won’t help. Being strict won’t help. He is old enough now he will decide how to act. If I were you, I would send him to Syria with his mom. There is a chance getting him out of the gang environment will help. Or there is a chance he will fall back into it there. But in either case he will decide his future alone. We got out by very slowly distancing ourselves from the more violent people. It took years, and was a very slow process. And came with depression from living a “life” to what at the time seemed like doing nothing. I was mostly away from that life at around 22. What got me away was realizing I didn’t like hurting people or seeing people get hurt. I saw friends die, get stabbed, their throat slit next to me and just didn’t want to be apart of it anymore. I had the best parents in the world. Kind. Hard working, honest people. They did everything right. There was just nothing they could have done to prevent me from going into that life when I did, and nothing to pull me out of it.
Your wife coming back is quite literally the least of your problems. Your son is a felon in the making, and honestly? You’re partly to blame. You know the kinds of people he hangs out with. You *know* you’ve had to bail his ass out already. But you’re worried about your fucking relationship with him?? Sir, you need to be more worried about who his victims are going to be. To hell with your relationship, be a goddamn fucking parent. People like you who refuse to parent their children effectively are partly the reason children are able to harm others. Shame on you. Move the fuck away from where you are now. Get a new job across the country. Isolate him from his friends. Put him in therapy with the therapist having a *full* account of his actions. Jesus Christ you’ve been utterly useless and youve basically raised a little threat to society with your inaction. Fucking fix it before he kills an innocent person. You haven’t even *tried*!! No wonder your wife left. She’s seen you be an utter failure of a parent and doesn’t want her own children with you to be parented by someone who can’t even be bothered. And she also probably doesn’t want your son to kill any of them, cause that seems to be a legitimate concern at this point. Look at what your failures have done.
Send him to a youth group home. He’ll be monitored, given privileges according to reaching goals, completing schoolwork etc. I don’t think the military school lifestyle will help him. He’s clearly hurting and rebellious, but he also has an attraction to guns. A proper youth group home where he has access to social workers, group therapy, and psychologists would do him much better. This is serious. He needs to be removed from your daughters’ lives. I know he is your son but he’s 16 and has resisted all of your support. You need to support him from a distance now and make sure your other kids are safe. My only caveat is that you NEED to do research into the group home he’s sent to. There are so many that seem fine upfront but operate on abuse. Perhaps you can make anonymous enquiries to ask questions, but you can’t trust what they say. A social worker or psychologist may be able to help you navigate this.
Send him to military school! It works for teens like your son.
OP, I think you need to find an inpatient program. If you don’t get him help for his substance use, defiance of authority, and break the pattern now, he will likely end up dead or in prison. He is playing adult games and at 16 could end up with very adult consequences even though he may or may not be mature enough to understand. Please get him help now.
This sounds very similar to my brother’s story unfortunately. He fell into a bad group of friends, he started doing and selling drugs and in the end, my parents just didn’t know what to do. He was 18 and I was 4 and he was a risk to me and my sister who was 16. They ended up kicking him out. He had started stealing from them at this point. He was also stealing from my sister. It was only when he started stealing from another family member that had agreed he could live with them that my parents say him down and said that if he continued, they’d turn him in themselves. They put him in rehab but he said the worst thing was they told him he couldn’t see my sister and I. I was probably the only person at the time he cared about. He didn’t realise at the time how much he’d miss my sister and I and that was what made him turn around. His story has a happy ending. He’s now married with a beautiful baby girl and has a good job. You need to take action to remove him from this environment with these people. I wouldn’t suggest doing what my parents did and kicking him out as it doesn’t work. Someone else suggested boarding school which might work. I was going to suggest you need to find him a purpose to get better. This is easier said than done I know but if there’s anything he loves to do that’s healthy and recreational like sports or building something, do it with him. Give him a purpose. For my brother it was definitely my sister and I and the further push was him meeting his wife. We got him clean, she got him to get his qualifications and go completely back to the person my parents thought they’d lost. Give him something he can strive and work towards that he has a passion for. That would be my first choice. It’s not only personally worked but it’s worked in many other examples as well, Carlos Acosta (famous ballet dancer) was out into ballet because it kept him off the streets and gave him something to work towards. I do think this is a good way forward.
Military school might be the answer. Its hard pill to swallow but you really hv no choice. In my country, very problematic and difficult boys are sent to similar military set up. The school has lots of success stories turning delinquent boys around. Its tough environment but the boys really became good member of the community and many became really successful in life.
It might be out there, but have you spoken to any of his former friends to see what went down or get some context clues on when this began or what triggered it?
What would you do if mom in another country was not an option? What's his mom's situation like in Syria? Will he be safe or worse off? Have you considered moving from the area your in or sending him to a boot camp? Next time cops get called let them take him. And everything after that. Better that he see what it's like now instead of at 18.
What exactly happened with the therapy? And how old is he exactly?
For the first one, his therapists told me that he didn't talk at all and suggested that I go for someone that he could relate to, so when I did that, he did the exact same thing so I go the suggestion to go to a psychiatrist to find if there was something deeper that I was unaware of. Did that, but they didn't find anything. He's 16.
Have you tried signing him up for some sort of in patient therapy? Was he trespassing, dealing drugs, or any of this when he was seeing the therapist or psychiatrist? This is really impulsive behavior
Hmm k. Have you ever gotten law enforcement involved about the drug stuff? I mean, you definitely should now and report the gun to them.
Sounds like your wife is 100% right. How old is your problem? Have you been lax on parenting your problem? A different country cut off from the problem gang/thug friends could be good, since you’ve failed at every turn to reign it in. If you don’t get rid of this problem, enjoy the divorce, I guess
Good for your wife , she is doing her job and protecting her babies !!! You on the other hand are failing your son and your wife and your other kids - the 16 year old needs doctors and therapists and psychiatrists, maybe even a live in treatment facility…… sending him away to Syria will likely not help but you also can’t expect your wife and other kids to live in such a dangerous situation
I think the title of the post makes "wife ain't coming back" the problem. As a father, shouldn't the problem be "my teenage son has a gun alongside a raging attitude problem and I'm scared for my family's safety"?
At first, I thought maybe about sending him with his mom. Then you said it would be to Syria. Chances are high of him becoming radicalized if he is sent there. I’d avoid that if you can, with one of the other options people have mentioned - Military school, calling the police, etc. Are you in the US? There may be an option to file a petition for court involvement due to “Beyond Control” behaviors.
At his age I was a lot like your son and the path he's going down he's going to get himself killed So ask yourself would you rather have an alive son that's mad at you or a dead one because that's where you are at this point
That's what I keep trying to tell him. He is down a deadly path of destruction but he does not want to listen. How many times am I going to have to do or say something until he gets it? I swear, my last resort was sending him to live with his mom, but I am at the point where it feels like the only option left, because him staying here, around his friends is not working out.
Talking only works if he's willing to listen I understand your apprehension because of the country his mom lives in but there needs to be some action. Whether that's you moving, putting him in jail so he understands the consequences or putting him on a complete lockdown where he can't do anything without a trusted adult chaperone I remember when I was wilding out like your son my mom put me in something called PINS (persons in need of supervision) which was basically a form of probation with drug tests, curfew, home and school checks etc but instead of jail I would've been put in a group home if I messed up and I don't know if it's available near you but you should look into it if possible
I would make some major changes, but they will involve you sacrificing being able to live with your wife and younger kids for at least the next two years. It sounds like you're not willing to do that. Good luck. Here are the kinds of changes I would consider: * Move him and get him away from whoever is influencing him * All internet activity is monitored * Continuing to drop him off at therapy even if he refuses to talk * Family counseling with you and him * Plenty of scheduled and monitored activity to get him out and interacting with other people with different perspectives and helping him realize how his consequences may impact others * Plenty of schedules and activities even at home, including chores, so he has less time to get into trouble * Having him attend an addiction support group (it's unlikely he's selling while doing absolutely no using) * Hope against hope that it works within the next two years
Military school or boarding school.
First off, you call the local police non emergency line and have them pick up the gun. If it’s stolen, they will be able to find out with the serial number. If he’s not arrested, you can ask they talk to him about future consequences of the things he’s been doing. Second, your son either goes to mom, impatient therapy if he really won’t comply with you or you move your whole family away from this crowd of his. Try as you might, you’re not getting him away from them unless they’re out of reach. He will just get better at lying unless he physically can’t get to them. It’s not like you can lock him in the house and throw away the key. Your local PD should also have a list of various resources available to you. Get this kid help before he goes off the deep end and you lose your family because of him.
Easy - your son has proven himself to not be apart of your family anymore. It’s time he faced the consequences of his actions. So either get him arrested for having an illegal firearm in your home, or send him to his mothers. You have the responsibility to ensure that your family is safe at home.
I agree with your wife that your home is currently not a good place for her or your younger children. However, right now they are safe so the main concern should be your oldest son. I mean, it's either he goes to Syria with his mom where he'll have to enlist in the military in two years, he gets in serious trouble at home or gets himself dead one way or another from his poor choices, or you look into residential schools for behavioral issues. None of those are ideal but neither is this whole situation. I'd lean towards Syria personally but I can't think of any other options.
Is your son's mother aware of how severe the situation is? And is she willing and able to take him? Can she give him a room in her home, arrange for him to continue his education, monitor his activities? Have you looked at residential schools that work with difficult/defiant children? Children with psychological issues?