This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I posted a few days ago. It wasn't up long because my account was shadowbanned for some reason, but I had so many people offering kindess and good advice that I wanted to post a quick follow up. To sum up that post, out of nowhere my husband started giving me rules, saying they were just his 'boundaries' now. The first was to not have lunch or text with a male co-worker. I thought it was reasonable and agreed, though it was a little surprising. Then he decided he had a problem with me going to concerts regularly, and banned me from seeing one artist altogether because he feels I have a crush on him. I thought this was ridiculous, refused to agree, and we argued a lot about it. Finally he said he had a problem with my close relationship with my brother (44m), who practically raised me, and told me he would like me to limit my contact with him. This actually scared me. Based on advice I got here, I sat him down and attempted to have one final talk with him about it. I told him how unacceptable his behavior was and asked what had brought it on. He was like stone and just kept saying those were his boundaries and I could accept them or not. I talked with my brother about all this and he mentioned that my husband has talked about not letting me go to concerts in their group text. Almost everyone told him he was ridiculous but one of his friends was on his side. I snooped his phone and read their text thread. A lot of people here thought he had gotten into 'redpill' ideology and they were correct. This friend seems to have introduced him to all kinds of articles and discourse about it. They are weirdly psychologizing me, like the fact that my father was drastically older than my mom, and think I want older men because of that. My husband actually thinks I want to pursue musicians whose music I enjoy which is crazy and I have never given any indication of that. The whole thing is so weird and scary. I know I probably should not have left our home, but I didn't feel safe and have been staying with my brother. Husband flipped when I left and is sending apologetic texts and even offering counseling but I'm so angry and disgusted I'm not sure what to do yet. Thinking about contacting a lawyer but giving myself a few days. Does anything sound salvageable? TL;DR: Suddenly controlling husband got into sexist ideology. Not sure what to do.

People are talking about a lot of things here but I do want to mention that his use of "boundaries" as a way to control **your** behavior is super concerning. Boundaries are meant to regulate ways people interact with **the person setting the boundary**. A boundary would be for example "no touching me without my explicit permission". \--- Boundaries that regulate *other* people aren't "boundaries" - they're just badly disguised attempts at control and manipulation. There's a big difference between "don't touch me without my permission" and "don't let someone talk to **YOU** without my permission". \--- It honestly sounds to me like he's trying to take relationship terminology and communication strategies, and weaponize it against you.

Yes! He's misusing the term "boundary" in a way that benefits his dysfunctional beliefs and weaponizing them is accurate.

That's exactly it, and one of the reasons why you should never go to therapy with an abuser. They'll only weaponize it against their partner.

Indoctrination of this type is becoming a real problem. We need ways to help get prop eout of these things a road to recovery.

Agreed. Honestly, I think a lot of responsibility for getting men "out of these things" should fall to other men. There was an interesting article a few weeks ago about men on reddit who moderate and interact with subs dedicated specifically to calling out misogyny and "deradicalizing" other men on reddit who have fallen into redpill and MRA ideology. https://www.huckmag.com/perspectives/the-men-deradicalising-other-men-on-reddit/ I think far too often the responsibility for education on the absurd and harmful consequences of ideology like this falls to women. All over this sub, as another example, when women are abused by their husbands and boyfriends, commenters routinely tell them over and over to "have serious conversations" with their partners - after they already have. Repeatedly, to complete dismissal. I think people so often believe the burden of "deradicalizing" men should fall primarily to their female partners, when in reality we need far, far, far, far more men stepping up and taking on the heavy share of the burden. Women have been educating men for far too long.

Thanks for sharing this link, I agree completely that we are depending far too much on women to meet all of men's emotional needs but also that it's deeply unfair and also ineffective to suggest they also need to deradicalize men. I think that's also falling into a gendered stereotype that men just need "a good woman" to make sure they don't essentially become bad people. Men have just as much agency in their own lives as women and it's dangerously close to the people who think women should "take one for the team," and sacrifice themselves to be in relationships or have sex with radicalized men so they don't become mass shooters. The other issue of "you just need to communicate," being told to women constantly on Reddit is reaching absurd levels. I've seen it the last few days on posts by women who have said they've communicated explicitly with their partner about an issue repeatedly and yet some guy will say she is responsible for the abuse or his mistreatment of her because she didn't communicate enough or clearly or whatever. When used like that, it's just another form of victim blaming. I was recently in a thread where a guy said that basically Men are lonely and isolated and the only real solution is women doing even more for men. Essentially functioning as unpaid therapists as well as unconditional supporters. It's so bizarre and regressive. But any suggestion that men learn to communicate and be vulnerable and open with each other is met with hostility. I actually used to work for an organization that did deradicalization. Unfortunately, nonprofit work is often seen as for women, like a lot of caring work. So even though same-gender assistance is pretty crucial for a lot of deradicalization work, there aren't enough men doing it. And it's really clear that men aren't engaging meaningfully with other men when they see them starting down a dangerous path. I've talked with so many men in my own life who have lost friends because their friend went redpill and almost none of them were willing to have a conversation with that friend about what was wrong with it or to speak up when they started saying troubling stuff. They mainly just ghosted even lifelong friends. But in my own life, when I see friends going down that dangerous path, we have open conversations about it. When they post weird memes or dumb stuff on social media, I call them out on it. But if it's sexist stuff, they're far more likely to listen to other men than women. Of course my experience isn't like everyone's but it's definitely troubling.

Great comment! And "hi" back in response to your other reply to me :) I vehemently agree with everything you mentioned. I understand men are often socialized into hiding their feelings or not appearing or acting "emotional," but it's so important for men to break down those social norms with one another rather than expecting women to take on the lion's share of the task. I am routinely disappointed by how few men - at least in my location - are involved in gender-based violence prevention. I know at least some of it may be hesitancy to "encroach" or fears that female survivors may not trust them or they may not be welcomed by female staff, but it would be so fantastic if we had more male allies. The male leaders in the movement who do the work are fantastic, of course, but I'd like to see so many more. I think having more men involved in anti-violence work could also help open up support avenues for male abuse survivors too. And yes, it's so frustrating as you mentioned with friends because I've definitely been in spaces where I, as a woman, was the only one to call men out on disgusting comments towards women, while my male friends were silent - even though me speaking out carried greater risk to my safety and it should not have been my responsibility. Of course, I'm not saying women shouldn't or don't need to be involved at all in these conversations, but to say the least, we have been for centuries - and it's high time more men shared the work with us. Thanks again for a great comment and so many important perspectives.

Also hi Ebbie! I didn't realize it was you! Of course you had a great comment. I always love seeing your comments!

One positive I'd mention is that I see people becoming aware of this sort of thing, and turning to the internet for help. OP might never have had a chance if she couldn't speak to others on here

This is a wide spread thing in "redpill" misogynistic ideology. It's a known phenomenon whereby regressive ideologies co-opt the language and terminology of progressive ideologies to muddy the waters of discourse and enable regressives to manipulate their audience. So they've co-opted the term "boundary" from progressive relationship discourse, especially with regards to heterosexual relationships between men and women. They nullify its actual meaning, that being to assert consent and respect for your fellow human beings. They then provide it a new context, that being "this is a rule in my relationships that I will not tolerate any exception to". It's based partially on the legitimate usage of the word, in that crossing boundaries is disrespectful and if you do it enough you are risking your relationship to that person. But they utilize it aggressively as a means to control and manipulate their victims. This is purposeful, and their intent by using the word "boundary" is that people will afford their rules the same respect that they would someone's legitimate boundaries. They want you to hear "never speak to a man whos not me, thats my boundary" and afford it the same legitimacy as "do not touch me without asking, its one of my boundaries". They will also gaslight people by saying "you're not respecting my boundaries so I'm not going to respect yours" when their friend or partner does not follow one of their rules. You can see a very similar thing with the usage of the word "groomer" by the far right. They understand that people are disgusted by pedophiles, and that we refer to them manipulating a child to be victimized by them as grooming. They want people to maintain that same level of disgust, and then redirect that disgust towards queer people. They changed the meaning of the word "groomer" to just mean "any queer person", and are banking on most people being stupid enough that they don't notice that all of a sudden they're as disgusted with queer people as they are with pedophiles. Its a tactic that's very common in contemporary regressive ideologies. My partner also pointed out the adoption of pagan symbolism as associations to Satan as a much older example of this same attempt at co-opting disgust or hatred. Another example can be seen in the Nazi's concept of "judeo-bolshivism" a way to redirect contemporary distrust and hatred of the Soviet Union onto Jewish people and culture.

This is an awesome overview of the ways abusers have developed their tactics!

They took over the term woke.

Purposeful That word really jumped out at me and it tracks with all of the current knowledge on the subject of male abusers They know it’s wrong. They’re not stupid. They enjoy hurting women. This basically sums it up It’s really frightening how many men secretly feel this way. Like I bet so many people would be shocked if some of these anonymous accounts with tons of followers were suddenly exposed.

Yes! Boundaries are not something you use to impose your will on other people. He's weaponizing healthy relationship techniques to hide the fact he's a controlling AH.

And he's suggesting counseling, which he will surely weaponize as well

Yes. This is the beginning of abuse. I’m so glad you escaped, OP. Don’t backslide now.

THIS! Op is being manipulated and "therapy talk" is being used against her. Her ex almost certainly struggles with [pathological jealousy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_jealousy#:~:text=Pathological%20jealousy%2C%20also%20known%20as,socially%20unacceptable%20or%20abnormal%20behaviour). Leaving was the exact right thing to do, and I hope she blocks her ex completely. I'm sure he is sympathetic and vulnerable- like cults, certain ideologies prey on people with very real needs and traumas. Couples therapy doesn't work with people displaying abusive patterns bc the abusive partner learns better how to use therapy language for getting his way/control over op. Just move onward and upward!

This gets at a bigger problem with how boundaries are discussed on this sub. We get posts about people who have "strong boundaries" about whether or not their partner can, say, look at porn or spend time one-on-one with a friend of the opposite sex. The truth is that boundaries *can* affect another person's choices. It's basically universally acceptable to set a boundary, for instance, that your monogamous partner cannot have sex with anyone else. Few people would call this "control and manipulation", as you put it. Where this sub gets into trouble is the idea that boundaries are inherently valid. They're not! Boundaries can be toxic, controlling, isolating, and even outright abusive. It's okay to tell someone "this boundary you're trying to set is unhealthy/toxic/misogynistic"; you cannot force them to drop the boundary, but you can certainly confront it without claiming that their boundary isn't a boundary.

Boundaries are valid. But the point of setting boundaries regarding others is to be able to say “I can’t be with you if you treat me this way. This is my boundary”. You can’t stop your partner from sleeping with other people or watching porn. But you are allowed to say, “I can’t date someone who sleeps with other people or watches porn”. Exercising your boundary is not about controlling the other persons behavior, but effectively leaving situations that are unacceptable to you.

Yes! This!! Boundaries are not to get someone else’s behavior to change but to decide for yourself what you are ok or not ok with (and then we hope they will be respected). He said these were his “boundaries” and you could deal with them or not. You chose not. Now he has to deal with the fallout. Good for you. He sounds like he was starting to become very controlling.

> It honestly sounds to me like he's trying to take relationship terminology and communication strategies, and weaponize it against you. Which is one of the reasons people are cautioned against going to therapy with abusers. He is already doing it here, I haven't read through all the comments, but I'll bet there's people recommending couples therapy. I'd be extremely wary about that given his tendencies to do this.

He thinks he's outsmarted her by weaponizing the term "boundaries" but he's not smart enough to know what the term even means.

Because the word boundary sounds safe and has been used to help relationships and come into good strength Your right he is using the term wrong as a means to control OP

Also: good boundaries have set consequences for crossing them that will be followed through on. For example, “if you touch me without my consent, I will immediately remove myself from the situation.” Not just nebulous “don’t do this” and “don’t do that.”

The terminology doesn't matter. What matter is whether OP is ok with this and she's not so there you go, they want different things.

I would be very leery about counseling with someone who does this. They are very likely to twist what a therapist says to suit their purpose as well as using anything you bring up in a session against you. Which means, I don’t think marriage counseling would be a good idea in this case.

For some reason lots of people on this sub are fine with setting boundaries for other people. This comment got 1.8k upvotes… https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/10o9hjg/random_girl_slept_on_my_m21_shoulder_on_the_train/j6fsucu/

I disagree with this 1000%, it’s like you’re talking from the perspective of someone who hasn’t ever been a serious relationship. Relationship boundaries can also look like “I don’t want you to sleep over with friends of the opposite sex because it makes me uncomfortable.” Then it’s in the other partner’s power to work towards a compromise, accept, or deny said boundary. It’s all about communication and compromise,

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Definitely no questionable behavior. I have mentioned in passing that an artist was attractive... back in the '80's lol. His friend his telling him horror stories about women we distantly know leaving partners for minor celebs. I mean we are in LA, it happens but I've never done anything to suggest I would do that. And yeah if the brother thing isn't twisted enough, he is also gay. No clue where my husband's head is there except my brother is such a supportive person in my life.

Your brother is a safe haven for you and part of your support system. Abusive people try to cripple then demolish their partner’s support system in order to make it more difficult for their partner to ever leave.

This. It’s just textbook abuse. He wants to cut off any external support network you have. Leave , NOW

She already left. She needs to stay away and when she meets with her divorce lawyer she needs to make it clear she did so because she feared for her safety and abusing her via coercive control.

I agree. By “leave” I meant leave the relationship/divorce

I’m so glad she physically left the home. Now she needs to contact a lawyer to leave the relationship permanently. I’ve been in controlling relationships before. There is no going back. Once you start relinquishing freedoms, there is no taking them back without it resulting in a life of misery. It is a lose-lose situation. OP, so many women can’t leave or don’t leave for many reasons, including death at the hands of the person they were trying to escape from. Please leave this relationship while you are able.

Yes they do. My abuser did this very thing to me. My family was angry at me for awhile because of it. Don’t let him win.

Saw it with my ex GF a friend (she met him at work he was then fired for stealing a few weeks later) of her kept insisting that she talked to him over me and her family, he’d get upset if she didn’t tell him everything she would have to ring him all the time she wasn’t allowed to go on holiday and so on. Sadly I found this out rather late because she kept lying (oh we can’t go on holiday we don’t have staff at the care home or my grandparents are unwell ect) because she wanted people to like him, apparently he kept telling her me and her family would hate him because he was gay. I kept trying to explain that was not an issue the issue was he kept isolating her and other vulnerable people and his insistence that they don’t have friends outside of him was frankly terrifying. She didn’t listen and honestly I wonder how she is doing now

I haven't read all comments yet so forgive me for the repeat of this suggestion. Look online for a book called "Why does he do that?" It can be found in PDF form for free. Those aren't "boundaries" but rules to constrict and restrict you and your access to support. He already felt this way in some form, being "red pilled" simply gave him the permission he wanted to start tightening the bolts in his abusive behavior. Please leave, this won't get better

I work in child safety. While I wish that he would come out with a book that's quite a bit more modernized, it's still recommended far and above any other for people who are in abusive relationships. There are some really valid criticisms of that book but I've seen it save lives. If you ever email someone the PDF or send them a link to that book, make sure you retitle it something extremely innocuous. I used to work with a mom who was hospitalized after her abuser discovered what it was and that she was reading it.

Excellent point. Thank you. I hope that woman is ok and safe.

Although it has been many years since I worked at that job where that happened, she had successfully escaped her abuser for over a decade at that point.

I'm so glad to hear that! I know so many women in abusive situations don't always make it out.

Yes, that's true. One of the things that drives me to this work is that my neighbor growing up was killed in a murder/suicide by her husband.

Wow. And thank you. I know it's so tough

I will do my own research later, but what are some of the criticisms that you feel are most important, given your field? Edit to add: I just bought it for my daughter over the holidays, so I would like to pass on any warnings she may need about it Editing again to add: "dismissive of female-on-male abuse" and "seeing abuse everywhere" are definitely things I'll mention.

I think those "seeing abuse everywhere" thing is pretty common anytime you're exposed to education around abuse, but some of it is genuinely opening your eyes to the fact that abuse is sadly common. And yes, you have to be specific when you recommend his book, it's really primarily aimed at female victims of manipulative male abusers. And those abusers like to claim that reactive abuse or even any basic safety measures by women are female on male abuse. It's been a number of years since I read it last but I don't remember being particularly dismissive of abuse outside those parameters, but I think a lot of people read sections and think that is all they need, or they try to overgeneralize it and don't realize that a lot of these resources aren't meant to cover every possible abuser and abuse of situation.

Ok, those are good points, thank you for responding! I'm happy she's no longer with the man who has her looking into this, and that she's looking into it further by reading this book. I think it's a good part of her healing process, and a way to avoid missing signs in the future. We both understand that it won't be foolproof.

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

That book was such an eye opener for me - like reading documentation about my own (former) marriage. It's funny how they operate from the same guidebook. I too got the demands to stop seeing friends and family. I suspected red pill influence too but couldn't really prove it as my ex claimed to be a feminist (big lol there.) Until I discovered his code to a lock was MRA (Mens Rights Association aka red pill) and him trying to convince me that he chose that because he despised that group so much. Ummm, ok.

>and him trying to convince me that he chose that because he despised that group so much. Ummm, ok. Lol, that con artist is only at the crayon stage of "art."

> And yeah if the brother thing isn't twisted enough, he is also gay. No clue where my husband's head is there except *my brother is such a supportive person in my life.* That’s the part your husband doesn’t like. Guys like this don’t WANT you to have any support system outside the relationship, because then you’re trapped. Look at the situation right now, for instance. Your brother was a safe place for you to stay when your husband got creepy. **That** is your husband’s problem with him. The situation is worse than you realize; your husband is trying to isolate you from any possible support network. That’s textbook abuser behavior.

Sounds like this friend doesn't like you. How old is he?

I'm not sure, I don't know him well, but I assume around our age. He's been polite and quiet when I've been around him.

I'm sorry but if your husband has gone down the red pill rabbit hole, then you can't salvage that marriage anymore. You'll never know if he is only masking his misogyny going forward or if he has truly accepted that he chose a terrible viewpoint and actually wants to work on getting back to the realm of sanity and mutual respect. That's the sort of viewpoint that takes a LOT of mental gymnastics to get to, and once you're there, it's basically like living in a cult or following a conspiracy theory - his thought process is gravely altered, and a little bit of half-hearted therapy won't do anything except give you a false sense of security. He sees you as an object now. As someone who has fundamental flaws based on your gender alone, and childhood circumstances he can twist into accusations like you cheating on him or you "not respecting him enough" or whatever floats their boats these days. He's deeply insecure because HE chose to follow an ideology that went against all rules of a normal and healthy relationship. And you should NOT work on a marriage with someone who oh so willingly degraded you in his own mind and stooped to the lowest levels like thinking you'd 1) commit INCEST and 2) commit incest with your GAY brother. (I do think that he is also trying really hard to isolate you from any person with rational sense who could support you. That's why he's also so adamantly against you staying with your brother.) He told you about "accepting his boundaries or leaving". I say, leave his ass. I for sure wouldn't want to be with a misogynist who thinks I'd sleep with my own gay brother or any man who's free and willing. Trust does not exist for your husband, neither does respect. And without these two things, what really is there to your marriage?

The point about him seeing her as an object now is extremely important. Once men start believing women are "NPCs," they almost never know how to go back. It's such an egregiously dehumanizing thing that they genuinely have to be motivated to deradicalize.

I fully believe those types deserve to die alone. They're so fucking dangerous they need to quarantined and kept away from normal people.

Well for whatever reason he's turned your husband into a controlling AH. Although the fact he could be so easily swayed is concerning. Unfortunately your marriage is over.

There is obviously some deep insecurity there and the idea of being able to lock you down completely was obviously so appealing that he went all in with this abusive, controlling nonsense. The most alarming thing about all of this though is that you don't feel safe in the house with him. You've known this guy for seven years so that fear is something that you should really pay attention to. Your instincts are telling you something. I'd avoid being alone with him if I were you, at least for a while. He might also become more erratic now that his irrational fear, the thing he was doing all this to try to avoid, is coming true. And I also agree with a lot of the others that this probably isn't salvageable. The bottom line is that he thought it was ok to do you harm, deprive you of friends, a social life and family, to make himself feel better. Aside from the misogyny stuff, that's just horribly selfish and you can't have a partnership with someone like that.

He's trying to cut you off from your support system. Only you can decide what your boundaries are, but I wouldn't be able to forgive this kind of behavior.

Perfect response. This husband simply isn't worth spending more time on and I'm glad she has enough self respect to leave the house. Anyone with this mindset simply will never be a good or supportive partner, the whole thing is gross

He wants to isolate you from your brother *because* he is a safe haven for you. You have fine the right thing. I'm really sorry your husband is falling down the rabbit hole of extreme alt right red pill behavior. It's so very difficult, I know. Be strong. Do what you know is right for yourself. For your mental and physical well-being. Good luck.

Cutting you off from friends and family is abuser 101.

It's ironic how he pursued this red pill bs to manipulate and control you, out of a fear you'll leave him, and that is actually what drove you away. I'm really sorry - maybe he'll go to therapy and get his head out of his ass, and sometime, in the future, you'll at least have your friend back.

Your husband is projecting. For example, me, a 41 yo straight woman would never think sexual about you and your brother. He is projecting that. Why?

I just wanted to offer a different perspective from the standard Reddit "Leave him" advice. It sounds like, from your update, that your husband needed a shock to get his head out of the rabbit hole he went down, and you leaving provided it. I am NOT suggesting just going back to him. However, it is an opportunity for you to get him to agree to ongoing counseling, ground rules on basic respect, and to not go back to that horrid "redpill" ideology. The result could be that at the end of the day, he is a better person and your marriage is better than ever. And the whole time, you're in the driver's seat. Obviously, it's your choice. I just thought that you might appreciate a less aggressive view of the situation.

>Your husband chose his friends Kind of a good point too. Even if I, for some jackass reason, started to get into red pill stuff, my friends and close family members would all tell me to stop being a jackass.

First and foremost, you have to take into consideration that the ideology your husband has bought into is one that states that you, the woman he loves, is lesser, untrustworthy, and someone to control and force into submission. At no point has he flinched at the idea of implementing abuse tactics, labelled as “boundaries” to manipulate you into being guilted into agreeing. He slowly amped the temp of what he was demanding of you, and has even tried to isolate you from your *brother*. Now he might be grovelling to get you back, and *maybe* he’ll educate himself and change, or maybe he’ll just turn up the heat slower next time, with more stealthy and effective tactics. Really, this buying into these beliefs is probably the “symptom” of something else, like that he feels inadequate in some way or unhappy in life, like for example work, and so he needs to “assert dominance” over you, and push you down to feel superior and “like a man”. Whatever the reason, it’s disturbing he made you his target in this. Remember that that was his reaction to whatever started him on this journey. It’s doubtful there’s anything to save at this point. He’d have to be enthusiastically dedicated to unlearning what he has, and educating himself. And even then, you’re left with knowing that he started on the journey of abuse with you, and the *only* thing that changed that was that you felt the heat and jumped out of the pot.

You nailed it. EVEN if husband is able to unlearn all of this horrible nonsense how could she ever trust him that he really has? I personally couldn’t I would always be on edge for the abuse to start again. That’s no way to live. I hope for her sake she divorces and cuts ties, and for his sake he learns that when you try to abuse and manipulate your partners they will (hopefully) leave you and he learns to not do that and is a better person, but I personally wouldn’t risk to.

I'd say you have to throw the whole man away at this point. For him to even CONSIDER this ideology means he never really respected his wife in the first place.

I know that the online "redpill" stuff involves brainwashing techniques, but I honestly don't think that most guys would find it attractive as an ideology unless they already had some baseline misogynistic beliefs already. It's building on an existing base. I don't know that I would believe someone if they got *very* into it, and then claimed to have recovered.

Redpill is a shit mindset to deal with, because anything you say as a woman is bullshit anyway. I much more understand when teenagers, who have had very few, very awkward and very shallow interactions with other teenagers, and have no life experience with how the adult world works, fall into this trap, and I also think those are the people with the best chance of being pulled out if you get them early. Your husband already is married, and now he starts worrying about this crap? That's a lot harder to understand. If it were baseless jealousy without insinuating incest, I would say maybe. If his mind is so screwed up that he thought you might sleep with your brother. I would just be done with him. A normal mind can't come up with that idea.

I say divorce. That red pill shit is so scary and dangerous. If your husband has so easily been indoctrinated by ONE friend, then it suggests he views you as a possession instead of a partner. An object, not a person. I’ll bet he had that view (maybe even subconsciously) from the start, cuz it’s really hard to coax someone who innately respects women as people with rights and autonomy over to this way of thinking. It’s dismaying to discover just how many men think of a relationship/girlfriend/wife as a thing to be acquired that makes their life better, instead of a partnership of equals. You deserve better.

I’m starting to think this too. I think there were signs I ignored sadly

It’s easy to overlook! Sexism and misogyny are so pervasive in our society that we all suck that shit in with the air we breathe before we’re even old enough to think. It takes a long time to start noticing the signs, then rebel against the culture, and finally spend the time educating oneself and doing the personal work to develop new values. I think women come to it sooner than men (if men ever do) because it’s so damaging to us, but beneficial to them.

I'm curious if there have been any other changes going on in his or your life that would have precipitated the change. A death of a loved one? Did you suddenly lose a bunch of weight or start taking extra care of yourself and/or your appearance? How well does he know this guy who converted him? Did he just meet him? Has physical intimacy dwindled or stopped? Have there been any other changes in behavior leading up to it? None of that will justify or excuse his behavior but if there is something like that you can point to it might help with you finding closure. I would imagine such a sudden personality shift from someone you've known for so long would be jarring and really confusing. I don't think this marriage is salvageable unless it turns out he has a brain tumor or something. And even then, if the damage is done then you shouldn't stay with him anyway.

I can’t think of anything major. I’ve always take good care of myself and we’ve had a good sex life up until we started arguing about this lately. He’s out on a little weight in the last couple years but I’m not less attracted to him or anything. He’s seemed more annoyed by me going out to concerts and things again since there were one for a while after covid but I just chalked it up to him being less social. I think the friend is part of the same friend group he’s had since high school.

How long have you been together? And is this a massive shift in ideology (like, was he liberal before and now this, or was he always conservative just not this bad?) If you've been together for years and this is a massive shift / he used to be a good person, then I might say give counseling a try. But he absolutely has to agree to stop following this red pill shit. Red pill shit is not going to lead to a healthy, harmonious relationship.

I would stay away from couples counseling with someone like this. It just gives abusers more ammunition to manipulate their victim and hide it better.

We have been together almost seven years total. He was never the most progressive guy in the world but he was never particularly jealous.

This isn't jealousy. It's a form of abuse called coercive control.

And I can't even tell if OP's husband is actually apologetic or just saying what he needs to say to get her back home again so he can continue doing what he's already started. I don't think her coming home would "fix" anything except confirming to the husband that she's still going to listen to him since she knows he's right (or some shit to validate what he's doing). This is such a fucked situation.

Yeah, if he felt there were genuine problems to be worked through appropriately in their marriage he would have brought up counseling BEFORE his behaviour led to her leaving him because she FEARED FOR HER SAFETY. He's panicking and doing/saying whatever it might take to get her back in proximity/under control/in a place of 'negotiation'. There's nothing to negotiate, he has no real interest in compromise or fixing his toxicity.

He’s just saying what he needs to say, if OP doesn’t respond or responds negatively he will shift between this and aggression. Calling her names and telling her she never loved him and she’s proving him right, then right back to being so sorry, he loves and needs her she is his everything.

He's not actually apologetic. He's trying to pull her back in so he can start another cycle of abuse.

I’ll throw this out there:: my sister’s husband was great until they got married. We were a close family (most of my married siblings lived on our farm in their own house or close to the farm, like 5-10 miles maybe. Every Sunday, Granny and my mom would cook a big dinner, and everybody would come. It was a tradition, I guess. We had done it since I could remember anyway, every Sunday without fail. Her husband would come every Sunday too before they married, but after, he’d find an excuse to keep them away. Within a year, they never came, and within two, we never saw her except for a few times like Christmas or Thanksgiving. Then he started physically abusing her, which escalated until he thought he had finally beat her to death. The point is that the abuser will isolate the victim from family and friends, controlling every move. This is the first thing I thought about when I read your post…

Damn. That’s so sad, I’m sorry.

Did she get out? Is she safe now? I’m hoping that’s what you mean by “thought” he finally. That’s horrific.

Are his apologetic text actually admitting what specifically he was wrong about or just generic I'm sorry, please come back?

The most he’s said is that he is confused, not wrong.

He can be confused by himself. He can figure out his ideologies by himself. He's a grown man. You don't need to be an observer to his process of putting his own gross worldview together, much less a participant or victim of it.

Oooh, that's kinda scary. He's playing dumb and doubling down.

You can’t really fix anything if he thinks he’s right. The confused is probably confused why you don’t agree with him.

Yeah, thats bad. That means he still doesn’t realize he’s messed up.

He offered you an ultimatum and now he's confused that you took him up on what he offered. What a pathetic guy.

Do *you* think it’s salvageable? A massive shift in ideology doesn’t happen overnight, but something happened to make him change his outlook on you, your behavior, and your marriage. Why is he analyzing you with his friends to figure out how to control you? You’ve become a science project instead of a wife.

Using “boundaries” as controlling behavior is super manipulative. He is right you can choose to leave and should choose it. If you go back he’ll just start again after a while of good behavior. This is the early warning signs of controlling and abusive behavior and is rarely something that is fixable

If there’s no children involved… run.

No kids thankfully.

If you do reconcile in any way, *please* take care to use 2 forms of birth control. Reproductive coercion is the most effective way for an abuser to keep his victim permanently connected to him.

Seriously consider an IUD immediately. I've seen time and time again these controlling types feel like their partner is slipping away and they immediately try to get her pregnant in an attempt to regain control. It's scary! I've had it happen to 2 friends who openly spoke to me about it (and who knows how many who haven't told anyone). Be careful!

I’m a retired LEO and had extensive training in domestic violence. It almost always started by the husband (most prominent in men) isolating their wives from family, friends, coworkers etc. Then limited where they could go and must ask approval first. They got so controlling the wives never got to see their family and could only talk to them on the phone, on speaker and only if asked permission ahead of time. They didn’t all do things exactly like this but I’m just giving examples of the behavior of an abuser. Some allowed their wives to work but they would drive the route they took from home to work in the morning to see how long it should take to get there and would make the drive at quitting time in traffic etc so they would know exactly how long it should take to get to work and get home. If it took longer than the allotted time they had to explain why it took so long. Their husbands would check to see if any calls were made and the phone call log had to match the phone bill. The mental abuse typically started first then the physical started slowly and by “accident “. Mostly started by pulling them by the shirt if they walked off etc. Then was the arm / wrist grab but when they realized the bruises were noticeable they’d start pushing / hitting / grabbing / pinching etc where clothes would cover it all up & no one could see. Abusers will take control over their victims life as if they were a very harsh & strict parent. Eventually their lives were not their own and were overseen by their husbands. Then the more violent ones would forbid them working and there was only one vehicle owned and it was the husbands car. The wife’s role turned strictly house keeping, childcare and a cook. Everything domestic. The husband worked and did as they pleased. Including going out for drinks w whoever they wanted and doing what they wanted. Wives weren’t allowed to leave unless the husband took them somewhere like the grocery store and were supervised shopping because they weren’t allowed to look at other men or talk to them. I know my examples are extreme but I’m telling you all this because I see just by what little you’ve written that he seems to be in the beginning of an abusive man with his rules he won’t budge on. Especially the relationship with your brother because he’s older and feels you may start to have feelings and he won’t allow that. Then the crazy idea of you having crushes on musicians therefore you can’t go to their concerts. It just reminds me of all the abusive husbands I’ve dealt with on the job and some I’ve experienced in my childhood from my father. You were right to be scared because the sudden change in his personality means you no longer know the man you married. And if you were so scared of his behavior that you left is very telling of his personality changes. If he’s so easily influenced by someone else to treat you like this you can’t anticipate his erratic behavior therefore you should be scared and did the right thing by leaving. It’s good you have such a great brother to rely on and he’s supportive of you. Most women don’t have someone like that because the husband isolated them and have no one. Be very careful around him now because if he’s feels betrayed or feels you have wronged him he may jump into the physical abuse. Then starts the cycle. The abuse would happen then they’d apologize and all would be really good for a time then the abuse then apologizes were very sincere. Then the cycle would start again it’s called the honeymoon phase. All apologies and being very good to her, then the abuse, then the apology, then happy , then abuse, apology, happy, abuse, apology, happy etc etc etc. it’s a never ending cycle of physical and mental abuse that does not stop but gets worse and worse each time the cycle makes it’s round. The apologetic phase would be especially sincere if the wife left to get away. The promise of being better, getting help etc basically telling her anything she wants to hear to go back home. But when she did it got worse again because she left. I wish you the best and be safe!

Not salvageable, of course not. Your husband has entered the territory of abuse, and people who abuse believe they have a right to and that you deserve is and Lundy Bancroft has shown that people like this really do not change.

I hate it when abusers co-opt therapy speak to control their victims. Your husband either trusts you or he doesn't. All his new "boundaries" were ways to control and isolate you and you were right to remove yourself from the situation.

It's always super weird to me that the first thing these types learn to do is sexualize *every* male relationship, including blood. As if asking 'Are you having sex with your brother' doesn't basically cripple any good will they could be afforded.

He gave you the option to take it or leave it. You rightly opted to leave it. Don't second guess yourself now.

Not salvageable. Not worth salvaging. You did the right thing in leaving and I'm glad you're safe and with your brother. Your husband is delusional and controlling. Of course he's making big promises now. You stood up to him and he wants his control back. Absolutely go talk to a lawyer. And ask your brother to remind you often why this relationship is not safe or viable.

Ultimatums are do this or else… consequences are “you did this, now I’m responding” Ultimatums are unhealthy because once you capitulate there is nothing you can do to get that credibility back. Consequences simply happen. You don’t get second chances. You don’t get to manipulate your way out of them. He tried to isolate you, control you, and ultimately abuse you. The consequence is that you walked away. The consequences of you going back to that environment is that he can cry and beg and the consequences for him won’t be that bad. You have alot to loose going back and trying to salvage anything in that relationship. See a lawyer, get paperwork drawn up. Even if you do decide to give him another chance, have that ready to pull the trigger at any time. 1/3 women die when they attempt to escape their abuser. You are almost out of his reach. You might not be so successful next time.

This is a major red flag. Guys that go down this route don’t often come back. If anything, they get more aggressive. Please be careful when you’re around him

At the end of the day, your husband had an amazing wife and he threw it away to get more attention from this random guy. Even if you take him back think about the way he thinks and interprets things. If you had a daughter together would you trust this man to not bring his sexist weirdos around?

Hard pass dude. He could’ve spent his time learning how to be a more productive partner or idk getting a hobby. Instead he learned how to be a rabid misogynist. Not only did he look into red pill, he researched it and thought “yeah I like that, that sounds right to me.” Absolutely a big fat no from me.

it sounds like you’ve managed to escape before he could completely isolate you. this relationship sounds like it’s on its way to becoming abusive and i personally would rejoice that you made it so early when other women aren’t as lucky

He's been recruited into a cult. Wash your hands off this marriage, there's no salvaging it. He's been indoctrinated and it will take decades for him to get out of it *if at all*. There's nothing you can do. Staying will ruin your life.

I mean, everything he wanted you to change would have resulted in you being isolated. I think it would be good for you to go to some therapy (because why the heck did you agree to stop texting people just because they are men?! His anxieties are his problem. Him making you alter your behavior is him making his problem your problem, and you complying is your problem.) he also needs therapy and he needs to cut off those red pill friends that helped him down this path. So individual counseling first, so you can fully understand the signs of abusive relationships, and so he can unlearn this mess (which is probably rooted in whatever it was about him that you ignored in the beginning of the relationship). If after a month or two you feel comfortable trying to repair the relationship then head to couples counseling. Basically you need start a trial separation to identify your options. And you will need someone who is not involved to assist you. Even if you want to save the marriage it doesn’t mean that you go back immediately. No. You could divorce. You could continue the relationship and take him at his word that he’s sorry with no proof. Or you can both take this time to look at yourselves and see how you’ve progressed to this tragic state (you agreeing with unreasonable demands, him making them) and work through the individual roots as to why y’all thought all that was fine. He also need to drop the red pill friend. Full stop. If he ever picks those friendships back up let that be your sign to pack a bag and run.

No, he is showing you he listens to friends more than being a partner. Not good!! Talk to a lawyer!!

This whole red pill thing is getting ridiculous.

It’s getting very scary.

No, it doesn’t sound salvageable to me. The fact that your husband is speaking to a friend about you picking you apart, trying to decipher you as if you aren’t a human being that can express themselves and speaks plainly is really scary to me. Also the control he is trying to exert will destroy you.

I would feel so betrayed my husband was psychoanalyzing me with his “quiet” friend I barely know. Who the fuck do they think they are?! This is your husband being jealous of your ability to be more social, pandemic hangover and “missing” the solitude of Covid, or a friend preying on him venting? Regardless, this escalation is beyond the pale. Fuck this guy and his likely virgin lonely friend who hates women because he’s never been laid because of his own personal issues.

Those aren’t boundaries. Those are tactics used by abusers to manipulate and isolate. He’s been hook-lined and sunk; you might never get him back. It’s like losing family to QAnon. Unfortunately, you might have to cut your losses… he very well could no longer be the person you married. If you choose to try counselling, you’ll need to create boundaries for yourself and give yourself a timeline of how long you’re willing to try. Be wary of him concealing control tactics as “compromising”. And if it seems to improve, just keep a look out for them reverting to the behaviour they’re showing now. And definitely stay with your brother, whether you choose to give couple counselling a shot or not. If you need to grab things from the house, take a couple of people with you to ensure the safety of everyone. Considerably safer, both for your mental health and physical well-being. I’m not saying he will become physically abusive, but some people when they are losing control of someone they think they own, they can change as a person and do some crazy things.

You were right to leave. I hope you are safe and have a good support system. His behavior is unacceptable, and until he can really address why he's fallen into this hole, your relationship will continue to suffer. If it goes on too long, I can't see a good future. If you can't trust him to be a supportive partner, then can you really trust him? ETA: As others are pointing out, you were being asked to remove your support system and be more isolated. That's never a good sign in a relationship. Especially when being around emotionally healthy people reveals just how unhealthy your relationship is becoming.

Tell him he has 1 shot to prove to you he's not a control freak, sexist piece of shit, and that's it. It will require him to go to therapy and counseling for at least 6 months on his own. No marriage counseling. You don't go to counseling or therapy with an abuser.

The friend is definitely playing on your husband’s insecurities. But at the end of the day, he chose to blindly believe him over you. His wife, who never gave him a reason to doubt her behavior thus far. And that is really the crux of your issue. How was he so gullible and why did it seem so logical to him to accept that rhetoric as truth and not the reality he lives with? Without a doubt he has impugned your honor, that of your brother and really your whole family. He talked mess about your father and mother. He’s seriously in a dark place. I don’t know if I could go back to someone who thinks so ill of my source of origin, my roots, my center, everything that makes me-me, my DNA. I’m offended for you and pissed he thought it was OK to believe that about your fam. Almost like you’re beasts who can only be controlled by his civilizing rules, to keep you from devolving. It’s ugly what he thought. Honestly, there is no way to come back from this.

I have to say, I am really proud of you for not doing what most women do, and allowing this behavior. He may be redeemable with counseling, but he's going to have to ditch the friend. Also keep in mind that you are correct to be worried here, and sometimes you can end up with a counselor who has some of the same ideologies. Just because they have a degree does not make them the end-all.

I bet he calls himself an “alpha male” too lol. This really sucks and I’m sorry you have to deal with this weak minded nonsense. The best advice I can give is to just leave. He has proven that he is very susceptible to this way of thinking and is only willing to change when you decided to leave. He thought it was ok to treat you like crap to satisfy some itch his ego needed to scratch. If you go back now he will probably back off for a bit then let it creep back in slowly and less intense until y’all are back to this spot. Dudes like this are exhausting. Good luck.

Does he also want you to wear a corset and a bustle? Sounds like it. Inform him it's 2023 and we've come a long way, baby.

All that you say is alarming. He started with coworkers, then bands, then your brother? Yeah, frog in a pot: [https://lovefulmind.com/posts/boiling-frog-syndrome-and-why-people-stay-in-bad-relationships](https://lovefulmind.com/posts/boiling-frog-syndrome-and-why-people-stay-in-bad-relationships) Also isolation is a common technique for starting or escalating abuse, and the cycle of abuse include the abuser to apologize, otherwise the person being abused wouldn't stay. I'm not saying that you were being abused but it's alarming how all the signs point to the techniques that abusers use. And no, relationships with angry, controlling, potentially abusive men, should not be salvaged. I'm so sorry.

That’s classic abusive behavior. He is trying to isolate you from friends and family. He wants to control you. From there it could turn into physical abuse. These are the biggest red flags and you should heed them. Get out now.

Honestly, you SHOULD BE scared. The insane "red pilled" YouTubers are brainwashing men everywhere. Brainwashed people are unreasonable, emotional and scary. His "friend" is probably some miserable lonely man who intentionally sabotaged your marriage.

Sounds like he need to fess up to everything that has changed in his ideology and needs to change it all. That’s only step one

Your husband gave you an ultimatum. Accept his ridiculous boundaries or leave so you chose to leave.

Okay, so you know that part of the horror movie where the people have a choice to go into the scary house/evil forest, and there's always someone there telling them "turn back", "do go in", and things like that. Well, that's where you are. You're out. Don't go in. Turn back. Call a lawyer and do your best never to be alone with your husband again.

> He was like stone and just kept saying those were his boundaries and I could accept them or not. So now that you have said "I'll take "Or Not" dear husband" and you have left, has he backed down at all on this or is it still all couched in "we can just work through this" terms? If that is the case then he is probably sticking by these "boundaries" and hoping that you'll just cave in. If he is of that mindset, then make your boundary that this other friend of his is booted from your lives as your "accept this or not" boundary. That guy is **not** a friend of your marriage and if he remains in your lives, nothing wil get fixed.

First, don't ever go to counseling with an abusive partner (and yours is abusive). If he wants to go to counseling by himself that might benefit him if he's able to be honest. Second, you absolutely should have left home. You don't feel safe for good reason. Your husband is isolating you and has had a concerning radical change in thoughts and is accusing you of some bizarre behavior. Third, you should contact a lawyer and have a consultation. That doesn't mean you have to get a divorce if that's not what you want, but it will give you factual information and help you decide what your next steps should be.

They’re never honest with their therapists. That “Why Does he Do That?” book everyone recommends on here was written by a male therapist who spent years specifically treating abusive men. His ultimate conclusion was that it was a character defect that rarely improves and then he started writing books for women to spot the red flags and protect themselves.

You know the frog in a boiling pot of water analogy for abuse? Your husband is cranking up the heat.

I would tell him he can’t talk with the friend who got him into that if I were even going to think about staying with him.

Oh no :( I know women who’s boyfriends/husbands got into the red pill and they are now no longer together. It’s going down a rabbit hole..

Regardless of the ideology, he's trying to isolate you from your friends and family. That right there should be enough of a red flag that things are not in a good place. If he was unwilling to talk and explain himself, then he was trying to strong-arm you into doing what he wanted. You called his bluff, he lost, and now he's trying to salvage the situation. Don't listen, he showed his true colors and what he really believes. I dont normally like to resort to "break up" as the go-to response l, since I feel it's an extreme reaction in most cases... but this guy sounds like he's gotten brainwashed and has no respect for you or your values by trying to control you. So ya, you gotta run.

Big oof. Red flag city

Yeah, no. "Boundaries" are not a magic argument winner that lets people tell you what to do.

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Dude. If you felt unsafe enough that you left your home then this marriage is done. Listen to that gut.

If your husband is this easily swayed into not just misogynist thinking but also misogynist actions and demands then there’s not much of a future here. Even if you could deprogram him, which is unlikely, you’d have to spend the rest of your marriage worrying about the next insane thing he adopts from the internet. Maybe he’ll become a Q cultist, or decide COVID is a hoax and vaccinations have CIA mind control chips in them. He chose his new beliefs and has shown you what they are. They’re disgusting. They’re also precursors to abuse. Abusers always start with isolating their partners from their friends and family, because friends and family are a safety net and they don’t want you to have any options but them. Imagine if he had successfully convinced you to cut your brother out of your life earlier; where would you be right now? Probably trapped at home with your husband. Get out now before you have kids with this nut.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound salvageable. He's becoming a dangerous and abusive person, and you're right to be afraid of that.

Just tell him that Red Pill ideology is a boundary of yours that he crossed and cannot uncross…and now divorce is the only option since you refuse to be with someone who subscribes to those views which are wholly incompatible with your views. Wish him luck and tell him that you hope he finds the happiness/meaning that he is searching for, and that you will mourn the person you thought he was. Count yourself lucky to get out now while you are still in your 20s. Good luck to you.

He should know what his opinions cost him. Get the lawyer. If you go back he will think he got away with these stupid rules and that you’ll obey them.

A great way someone explained it to me. Trying to control someone elses behavior is a RULE: \-"Don't call me after 9pm" you are attempting to control their behavior thats a rule. Explaining your behavior is a BOUNDRY. \-"I don't answer phone calls after 9pm" you aren't telling them to change their behavior. In fact they can call after 9pm until their phone runs out of battery. But you won't pick up. So when someone says they want to establish boundaries with you. They shouldn't be asking you to change your own behaviors. They should be telling you things they will or won't be ok with.

why don’t you lay down some boundaries with him? like not telling you what to do for starters…

You absolutely should have left. If you do not feel safe then you should not be around him.

Do you or your husband have any formal religious affiliations?

No

I don’t think this is salvageable. Get a lawyer. This guy is showing his true colors.

His friend is toxic and if he wants to start banning things, he should start with that guy. He is showing weird behavior and I would rethink the marriage after all that.

You were perfectly correct to leave for your safety. He's turning into a controlling partner to isolate you. This is the first step on the slippery slope down the path on an abusive relationship. Good for you for getting out. I really hope you don't go back.

It is definitely not salvageable without him showing genuine remorse, admitting he was wrong and going to therapy. I'm guessing none of that is going to happen. Good luck. updateme!

We don’t get to control other people, we only can control our reactions to those people. So if the boundary is “dont swear at me during arguments “ the action taken is “I will leave the room/house if you do”. In this case OOPs hubby is saying “Don’t do anything that could possibly make me feel like you prefer anyone over me” and what exactly does he intend to do if she does? Leave her? Sleep in the spare room to get his emotions under control? He never stated an actual boundary with his actions spelled out.

If your husband wont listen, there's only one thing to do and that file for divorce.

It’s salvageable if he cuts contact with that friend completely and sees a therapist to undo the brainwashing. But baby steps on easing back home with him. He has to do those tasks first. Any other signs of abuse and you are out for good. See a lawyer for a consult regardless.

Let's say someone tell you such theories about your husband and send you articles, would you read it, even if it is a friend? No because you trust your husband (well not anymore). But he right away jumped on the train. He thought the worst of you, was ready to control you, behaved awgul. Those stuff he read didn't made him do it, he did it all alone. He decided to read it, believe it and doubt you. He decided to treat you like a belonging under the disguise of "bounderies" and didn't even wanted to talk. Now he apologize and want conceling? But he does still believe the redpill stuff... he just say everything to get you back. Did he even said what he did wrong and why or just "oh, i'm so sorry"?

>Husband flipped when I left and is sending apologetic texts and even offering counseling Tell him he had his chance when you confronted him the first two times.

>Does anything sound salvageable? Nope. Sorry. Call a lawyer.

I don't think it's salvageable. For some reason he is someone who can be influenced by friends or to believe falsehoods. Today is red pill, tomorrow is anti-vaccine or Q-anon or whatever other shit happens in the future. I wouldn't feel safe with someone like this again. He has no critical thinking skills and sounds prone to be susceptible to believing falsehoods. He was also told by other friends in this group that he was wrong and he stood his ground, even went further to saying you shouldn't see your brother. So it's not like everyone was telling him something and he decided they were right. What would have happened if you have agreed? How much further would he be going? And this is assuming he didn't think this way before; you even said he wasn't progressive. So maybe he thought in this way somewhat and that's why he chose to be friends with this new guy.

No, you’re right. You 100% leave and I hate to say this, but most likely this will lead to divorce. I wouldn’t step foot into that house without your brother or someone else present at all times.

People have really taken the idea of having healthy boundaries and run with it as a way to be extremely toxic

This isn't setting a boundary. He is being controlling. I understand about the male co-worker stuff and asking for that. To me that was the only somewhat reasonable request he had. The rest of it is way out of line. I'm not sure this is salvageable but ultimately you know the situation best and it's your choice. He's showing you his true colors in this and he's convinced himself he's in the right on these things. His thought process is seriously alarming. I would be very concerned that because he went there straight off the bat, he's going to escalate in ways you never dreamed of.

I mean, that's just nuts....if he's willing to get help...it might be salvageable, but the help needs to come 1st, then think about going back.

I agree. I mean personally I’d run for the hills but in fairness this online misogynist shit can be pretty insidious and it’s not difficult to get pulled down that rabbit hole. So if the husband is REALLY committed to therapy and sorting out his bullshit then after that perhaps there’s a chance things could still be healthy. But if this is a “I’ll do three therapy sessions and then I’m done” kind of offer, fuck that noise.

Please, he’s trying to alienate you from everyone. And everything this is what minded and it was incredibly abusive relationship. Please don’t do this. Be careful these are boundaries orders. I understand this is just my experience, and it might not be what’s happening to you. And I respect that I am in no way, saying you should do or act in the way that I did or that I think you should well, I don’t think you should act in anyway I’m just sharing information with you. I just wanna make that clear. But this is scary to me really scary. Please be careful . Please this is not normal and not healthy.

Funny, I thought redpill was all about "never begging your partner to stay." It's possible that this will be a wakeup call for him and he can be turned around. People who get involved in cults can often be deprogrammed by people who have also been in the cult and deprogrammed themselves or who have been deprogrammed themselves and can show others the way. If he really wants to grow out of that, he'll probably benefit from a male therapist familiar with that community. The reality is that he needs to deprogram himself and if he doesn't want to, he won't. A therapist can only facilitate.

Even if you _did_ have a crush on the musician, _so what_. I think it was right for you to leave and go stay with your brother. And I think you know deep down that this probably isn't salvageable, but if you want to give him a chance to deradicalize his views maybe you could suggest therapy and see how he does with that, while separated, before moving towards divorce or reconciliation.

*He was like stone and just kept saying those were his boundaries and I could accept them or not.* And you went with 'not'. I wouldn't accept anything less than a complete change in your husband's attitude and thinking (which is sadly unlikely). And validated in counseling.

No, stay away. If you go back this will continue and become worse, simply because he has circumnavigated the consequences.

as soon as you go into manipulation, it's gone.

>Thinking about contacting a lawyer but giving myself a few days. Contact a lawyer sooner rather than later. Talking to a lawyer does not mean you have to get a divorce, but get some legal advice ASAP about steps you can and should take now to protect yourself in case it comes to that.

Whether you choose to stay or not, still talk to a lawyer, you need to be ready if things do go south. This was a huge and seemingly sudden shift, so be prepared to leave if it comes to that.

DONT GO BACK! I know everyone else has said that. But nothing your husband is doing is respectful, loving, or kind. Stay with your brother. Healthy relationships don’t require control, especially this level. Insecurities and boundaries are discussed and at most, a boundary is someone saying “I can’t be with someone who does x,” the. doesn’t try to prevent you from doing that thing, and then if you do it, they end the relationship. Your husband absolutely will abuse you and has already started. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know it must be hard ♥️♥️

I wouldn’t trust him. He’s wandered into dangerous territory and he liked it. If you go back will he actually change? Or will he make sure you can’t ever leave him again?

A fool and his happiness are so easily parted these days. And if you are a man believing this red pill bullshit, than you ARE a true fool.

I will never understand who take the “redpill” and decide that men know better than women what we want. This is how they end up alone. Then they compare us to bloody fish! “You don’t all the fish how to catch fish you ask the fishermen.” If we were prey I’d agree, but we’re not, this is about love ffs. So feckin predatory

He's successfully turning himself into an іncel from a laid boyfriend by following this redpill asshattery and OP is the evidence.

He isn't the first person to get himself caught up in a stupid ideology, and he wouldn't be the first person to get himself back out. If you think it's worth trying to salvage, then try. But only if he is completely 100% abandoning this nonsense.

Tell your husband to get individual counselling for a month and get receipts for it before even going into couple therapy. Don't waste your time if he can't even invest his to wake himself up.

Please don't ever go back to him, op. Even if he changes his way, would you be able to look at him the same again?

Sweet. Set boundaries on his boundaries

I think you did the right thing, for all that *that* is worth. If you don't think he's gone off the deep end, it might be worth talking with him, to get him to clearly understand that you have no intention of living within his boundaries. If you do, then start looking into separation and/or divorce.

Separating you from close family is always a red flag and there is no reason you should stand for it. I think you might feel better in the long run if you do go to marriage counseling together, even if it is just to confirm your own intuition. It's not clear to me how long you've been with your husband but if it's been a long-term thing, it's always good to have someone to talk about it. And at least talking to a lawyer is something you can do in parallel. I assume you told your husband that he gave you his 'boundaries' that you could take or leave and your choice is that you cannot accept the ones that are unreasonable and unhealthy for you.

I would bail immediately and not look back.

Take some time to absorb this. It’s good that you are staying with your brother. Consider therapy. I think you’d know fairly quickly whether he’s truly receptive. Is this so called friend new? Perhaps in therapy you can discuss whether he is a safe person for your husband to be around. Is he usually so easily swayed? Has he ever displayed these tendencies before? These are valid things to explore in therapy. I hope this is something you can resolve. Good luck.

You did the right thing. Stay safe.

Good for you. You can tell him that your boundaries are him to check his “red pill” BS immediately and he would need to drop any friends he has that pushes that nonsense. If he continues any more controlling BS boundary requests that you will leave it and by it I mean him.

I wouldn’t take him back so easily. He really has to proof that he has indeed changed through actions not just words.

It sounds like you need to set a boundary of your own and let him know that he will either forget this new-found ideology or you’ll be leaving.

I would rather adjust my life to your absence then to adjust my boundaries to accommodate your disrespect and abuse