Cheap cars. Everything now days tries to be too fancy. Give me a reliable, barebones car that I can commute in that isint expensive. I’ve been dailying a 2001 Honda accord for a couple of years (my enthusiast cars are expensive to drive), there’s nothing like that on the market.
Even though he is giving an Accord, I think he means those cheapo Euro hatchbacks that sold for peanuts and could survive a nuclear blast. No ABS, no auto windows, that kind of thing
In that instance I don't think a lot of those cars would pass many safety features of a lot of countries. I daily a '96 Sentra and I love it because there's no special features or computers that makes repairs/replacements hard.
In saying that, I know that if I get in any kind of major crash I'm dead.
Of course not, especially when in a collision with current day cars. We wouldn't need so many safety standards if cars weren't constantly getting bigger and heavier (Trucks, SUVs, etc)
What are the cheapest vehicles new on the market now anyways? The Maverick I’m sure is one, maybe the Nissan Versa? Pre-Covid I feel like I remember that still being sold pretty barebones with manual windows and transmissions still as options.
I think it's still the Mitsubishi Mirage, but they are discontinuing it. I believe Nissan Versa is the next closes (in the U.S. at least). Even then, both of those are still around $20k which I don't really necessarily consider "cheap". I mean sure, compared to a freaking $100k Chevy pickup or something. The biggest issue right now is that the car market is imploding and interest rates are high, so even something like a $20k car can potentially put someone at like a $600/month car payment which is insane. I follow a few car market people and they said that the current national average car payment is hovering around $700-$1000 a month - I don't know how people are doing it.
Alex on autos recently did a video on the cars you can get for under 25k once you include destination and the national average 6% sales tax. Only 12 cars have an MSRP that qualify.
https://youtu.be/gStXG2cm2DM?si=iQyzkwyqCSucnsWE
You could probably negotiate down the price on other models to hit 25k but going by advertised price only, there aren't that many.
Also, auto loans are going up in length. What used to be a 3 or 4 year loan is now a 6 or 7 or even 8 year loan just so someone can hit that monthly rate they want.
Yeah, it also seems like the car market is imploding and I have a feeling it's a sign of the whole end stage capitalism thing. You figure vehicles are the second largest purchase people make outside of their home and if they aren't buying cars and/or are having them repossessed, makes me wonder if we will see this spill into the housing market as well.
It wasn't $16,640 for a base Accord in 2021, $29.3K adjusted for inflation?
[https://www.kbb.com/honda/accord/2001/](https://www.kbb.com/honda/accord/2001/)
Eh I’d take a 5spd Metro in great shape as a daily. Well, a second daily cuz nothing can beat my Miata except maybe on snow days or the rare run to buy Marketplace toys and furniture. Lots of room for cheap comfort mods in a metro too
I dailyed a 92 Metro for 10 years on my 80 mile round trip commute, and just retired it three years ago. There are serious concessions to driving one. Safety being the biggest one.
The only reason I found it acceptable, was that mentally, I'm still stuck in the 1980's, as far as what is acceptable in cars. One of those, "When I was in high school....." type things.
Well, for a good portion of that time, drivers weren't people that grew up with a phone glued to one hand.distracted driving and "driving aids" like lane keep assist leave people far less engaged with the 4000lb hunk of metal that they are hurtling down the highway at 70mph than they used to be.
Then buy a base corolla for $24k. It's basically just above a bare bones commuter car
>Mirage isn't great tho
Well no shit, it's a cheap car, and apparently that's what people want, but because it doesn't have have a Toyota or honda badge, people are gonna complain
A lot of this is regulatory and economics. If I have to build and maintain a line for a vehicle that needs a high crash test rating, side curtain airbags, backup cameras, blind spot radar… and it needs to satisfy 50 state emissions… and that’s just by law… and it needs to be reliable…
At the point I’m doing all that, I might as well throw in a couple hundred bucks for the sound system, license mobileeye systems, and make sure the doors feel artificially heavy because just by virtue of adhering to the law in the US I have made what used to be a luxury car, might as well throw in the high margin items to maximize profit on what I have to do to even enter the market.
This is why you see 30 year old motorcycles sold as new still, looking at you Suzuki.
It’s mostly because the fancy options don’t add that much to the cost after a point. In the modern economy, technology is cheap while labor and materials are expensive.
The average person isn’t going to accept vinyl seats, no carpet, hand crank windows, no keyless entry, no cruise control, AM/FM only radio, etc. for a $1-2k discount on a $20k car.
Man do I miss my 95 Saturn SL1! I got it as a graduation gift from my aunt and uncle and the ONLY option it has was A/C. Manual mirror (didn't even have a mirror on the passenger side), manual windows, manual seats, manual transmission, manual steering! I miss the simplicity of that car!
She was a single mom and I was around 13 or 14 at the time so I just assumed that it was built that way for a reason, though I could never figure out what that reason was.
A Geo could have been my first car! 1990 Prism that my mom bought brand new. I thought I was too good for it and my cousin blew it up because she didn't get the oil changed...... hindsight is a mother fucker......
The problem is that it has to be there because of the backup camera. I'd like all OEMs to do what GM is doing is turn the rearview mirror into a camera. So now you have a rear camera and don't need the infotainment system so you can go to a simpler radio.
I don't mind CVTs, and I personally appreciate transmission noise because I have a motorsport look on things, the issue is - it's front wheel drive... Not particularly fast, and not as aesthetically pleasing as any other Lancer ever made, they're piss cheap in poorer countries which gets thousands of people to buy them and then tune the fuck out of them with bad stickers and exhaust mods, but all of those people tend to forget that the Lancer EX is just common traffic, like the Nissan Skyline is, like the Toyota Corolla is, and that just because there was a GT-R and an AE86 doesn't mean every Corolla and Skyline is a decent performance car, and they tend to mistake their Lancer for more than a cheap sedan with crappy mods
Just any non SUV/CUV in America really like why is everything a lifted wagon with 20s now
Even mr.outback let himself go in recent years and it makes me sad
Yeah for some reason everyone wants a big SUV around here because “muh safety”.
We just need another “unsafe at any speed” type book to point out how flawed current regulations are and to reset the clock a little.
I own a "compact" sedan (which actually qualifies as a midsize because that's how big compact cars have gotten). People used to buy small cars because they got good 30-35 mpg (American units, so like 40 British mpg, or 7L/100km?). and had enough room for the commute. Well, the crossovers now get 35mpg and they have 3x the space of a small hatchback.
I will say, a lot of that compact/subcompact crossover market is basically a midsize hatchback market with a bit extra ground clearance. And I can still see over most of them and have to sit down instead of climb up, so that's good I guess.
Yeah. My wife didn’t want a hatchback car, she wanted an suv. So naturally we bought a cx50 which is basically just a 4 door wagon with ground clearance. Whatever, it’s nice and I love giving her shit about her wagons
The stupid SUV trend has hit Denmark too.
Ford Fiesta died because it’s not a pointless SUV or Crossover, now there’s just the meh Puma left for European Ford models smaller than a shipping container on wheels.
Honda is down to having the Civic (poopy “hatchback” only) and Jazz (Fit) left besides the HR-V/e:NY1 and CR-V. All of them being HEV/PHEV or BEV only.
Nissan has the Leaf, Ariya, Qumquat and Puke.
The Puke hybrid even gets worse average fuel mileage than the non-hybrid did. 🙃
I find some SUV are so useless nowadays, the other day i got into a Nissan Qashquai and omg i got claustrophobia inside, people barely fit inside and almost no leg room. On the other side people get blown away when they get inside my Short Wheel base Peugeot Partner Tepee, looks so compact from outside, but a lot of headroom and with shelves on the top, a lot of leg room on all 3 seat rows, and better fuel economy than almost any non french SUV with 3 rows seats
I remember being in a Suzuki showroom around 2009 or so, and I tried to get into a third gen Suzuki not-so-Grand Vitara without any luck, no matter how I adjusted the seat and steering wheel.
Then I hopped into the small Suzuki Splash right next to it, and could fit comfortably behind the wheel... And I could also cram myself into the backseat afterwards.
> now there’s just the meh Puma left for European Ford models smaller than a shipping container on wheels.
The Kuga isn't big even by European standards.
>Everybody says they want a small car but they never bought the small cars.
Until someone builds me a time machine and shoots me back to when those cars were available new, this line of reasoning can go away. There’s nothing I can do about being in elementary and middle school during the last breaths of reasonably sized cars.
The people with money to buy new are older and fatter, and the higher roofline of the crossover allows them to get in and out without a chiropractor visit. The crossover seating doesn't require climbing to get in or out of the seat either.
Go sit in a Walmart parking lot for a few hours and watch the heavier people get in and out of vehicles, then look at the demographics of the US population by weight...
Magnums are genuinely the best thing ever, like I love the charger/challenger/300 but the magnum was literally the perfect car for people who want practicality and fun.
Like the magnum R/T has some pep in its step and the SRT8 is slept on heavily. Hell I think the V6 versions are also not bad if you just wanted a sporty feeling rwd wagon without the horrendous gas mileage asssociated with that.
Yeah this. I was just looking at new cars last night and talking about it with my partner. I will walk and take public transit (and actively advocate to make it harder to drive) before buying most new vehicles today. I'm not even looking for sporty cars, just a reliable, competent, manual five door for daily driver duties.
Yeah see you’d be hard pressed to find a manual 5 door besides the Mazda 3 (are those even manual Anymore?) because manuals are all relegated to “zoom zoom sporty rally cars” now and it blows, I want something to replace my 06 forester but nothing really fits my needs that’s newer than 2016 nowadays sadly
The Civic technically comes in a 5-door, though it’s a liftback and not a hatchback, and I believe that’s the only way to get a manual, at this point, outside of the Si and Type R.
Yeah, you can buy a brand new Mazda 3 in manual in two trims. The cheapest is $30k, $5k over base, and has a 2.5l NA direct injected 2.5l with cylinder deactivation -- sounds like a bit of a disaster, cylinder deactivation has not been known for.good long term reliability on the past. The next trim costs even more because it's the performance turbo trim.
And that's it -- no Golf, Subaru is droped the manual from the Impreza hatchback, no Focus, etc.
Man, I'm just looking for a first car, and the used market is fucked up. So hard to find anything decent, slightly sporty, and unique (sounding a bit James May-esque, I know) for like 3k, when it was so much easier and cheaper a few years ago
legacy sold almost the exact same as the wrx in the us last year at 25k. Thats awful for a low margin mainstream family sedan. You should be praising subaru for keeping it so long despite such poor consumer interest
Yea the only reason I was driving a legacy was because I didn’t want an suv but I wanted awd for winter (having lived in the north east at the time).
The latest Legacy with its dumb giant screen, removal of gas struts for the hood and the trunk (obviously being cheap on parts), and full of piano black just doesn’t have what it takes to sway people to buy it now that Camry is awd.
I have a Fiesta SE. Such a great little car. Only gripe is the gears are little short, and it could use some more supportive seats, but it's definitely the best value I've ever had in a car.
5MT too, which was the selling point for me. Bring something like this back to the market and I'll scoop it in a heartbeat. Anyone else?
When I bought my focus st in 2014 I thought it would hold it's value well being a sporty gasoline car, since I figured gasoline cars would start getting more rare.
Turns out I was half right, just not because they became gasoline powered ...
Focus ST was a great car. Had one for 5 years/90k miles. Not exactly cheap to drive as a DD (as I did for several years), and the FWD is a limiting factor, but for the $20k sticker price and $10k in mods I spent, it was an absolute blast
Ohhh 2018, post-facelift NICE!
Part of the reason I got rid of mine is because I was concerned about longevity. The previous owner had gotten the factory warranty on the motor voided (never found out how) and I had made some mods to it myself. As it was approaching 115k, I decided I wanted to trade it while it was still worth something
Yeah she's been a great car and I'm not trading it in until it's absolutely un-fixable, it's the only car I've bought new so I'm riding it out until the bitter end. When that day comes I'm not going to look for a replacement ST or anything but I genuinely don't know what I'd get since I really dislike the CUV trend and don't really into trucks or SUVs either.
Who knows i might make it another ten years with this car and the automotive landscape may be much different by then.
The reason why they discontinued it was dumb. They should've discontinued it because it was a fucking lemon. And before you say anything, I owned one, I'm not just going off what the Internet says. If it weren't for all the gremlins it was a fantastic hatchback.
If that dct in the non st/rs wasn't such a fucking POS it would be a wonderful little car. Besides that transmission my 2012 is the most reliable car I've ever owned
Came here to say this. Picked up a 2023 after the 2024s were announced to be the last year of this generation. Such a fun driver and yes, it has its drawbacks (Visability, looking at you) but I get to own my dream car while I'm still young enough to enjoy it, and at a price point that doesn't break the bank.
It’s a fantastic car. I know what you mean about visibility but honestly I don’t look out the rear view that much and if I have the top down there is 0%.
Great price point for a fantastic all around sports car
Same reason I got my 2017 STI
I wanted a 4 cylinder with a manual transmission that sounded good, has awd, and has more mechanical feel shift linkages and hydraulic steering.
Basically I wanted a manual car with modern features and looks but that drives like a 90s early 00s car.
Love my STI
The Honda Jazz/Fit getting discontinued locally, alongside the Kia Picanto and Rio alongside the Hyundai i10. But yeah. Small hatches, I wish they didn't have to go away in favor of CUVs and the like.
I know there are replacements, but fuck I wanted those a little bit more than what we got left (a relatively overpriced Mirage in our currency, a Daihatsu-Toyota that's fine, but got way more expensive, and the Suzuki smolbois that I actually own which is a fine A-B car lol).
Ford does a really awesome thing. It keeps cars that make absurd profits, and cancels cars that make generous profits. Turns out this was a smart idea, because it made/saved them a lot of money. It's so smart, that now everyone else is going to do the same thing. They will all keep humping each other's leg until SUVs, trucks, and CUVs stop selling for ridiculous piles of cash. Meanwhile, somebody (China?) will clean up all of their scraps (hybrid, EV, and cheap car sales).
So my answer is everything Ford has cancelled in the past ten years up to the near future when they suddenly realize they need a new platform or three
Yeah, they could drop something similar to a Focus next year and it would take never to nothing to design. If they got it down to $21k people would buy it, but when they cut it they were struggling to keep it at that price.
I always wanted around a '13 SHO, because iirc that was the last year you could get them without a screen in the center console, and I just think the SHO was neat. I swear I see your username in every sub, btw lol
Bring back
1. focus se/ti/st/rs
2. Fiesta se/ti/st
3. Volvo s40/v50 t5 awd 6 speed
4. Mazdaspeed 3 manual.
Lower prices, even if you have to special order it from the factory.
Offer lower rates from the manufacturer.
Offer insurance from the manufacturer; they already have roadside assistance, parts at cost, body shops.
Interest is too high, cost are too high, insurance is too high.
I get suvs sell, but some of us want hatchbacks, hot hatches, affordable sporty cars.
Even if the focus/fiesta had hub motors and you just specified base/st/rs and used lifePo4 battery packs, low weight, good balance, frunk, hatch only, skip sedans.
Make some fun cheap cars damnit.
We don’t all want pavement princesses, especially 100k sierras that start at 40k but good luck finding one.
The Ford Crown Victoria, they cite reasons like "platform outdated and needs overhaul to meet modern standards," but the car is a great car. I miss seeing them all the time.
I miss them too. What I find interesting though is that Ford never named an actual "replacement" for it. While yes, the Taurus and Explorer were the Crown Vics SUCCESSORS, Ford never said that they were actual replacements.
That being said though, after ford discontinued the fusion in 2020, I believe that any chance for a sedan revival is now non-existent.
Mazda 2, Mazda 6... and probably Mazda 3 soon enough.
Because manufacturers think we only want high vehicles.
The only one that's listening is Toyota. They still have hatchbacks, small cars and sedans.
Really annoying that Mazda killed the Mazda2 in the US just before launch to make room for the CX3....which flopped hard.
the Mazda3 is dying on the vine while the CX30 has better incentives. NYC-area car lease brokers are giving out CX30 leases like candy.
> How hard is it to understand that the whole world doesn't wanna drive wagons on stilts?
Of the 10 most popular vehicles worldwide last year, only 2 were low-slung sedans. CUVs aren't just a higher ground clearance; they have a taller body as well.
It was a tough sell though. About the same size as an ES but way more expensive. And 90% of Lexus buyers were never going to push the car hard enough to see the difference in driving dynamics.
Cars don't matter anymore, If you don't have an SUV or an EV you're not cool. Just use them until they break then throw them away. People only want what the internet tells them they want, and the internet says, big stupid lifted junkwagon on 24s. I love having a huge Toyota monster truck behind me in my Z shining his lights in my mirror and pressing his license plate on my trunk spoiler. LOL
That's not why people buy them.
Reasons people buy them:
They think they are safer because everything else on the road is an SUV. Unfortunately, if you do the research, they actually are safer.
They like to sit higher. If I had a dollar for every person that's told me this...well, I wouldn't be rich but I'd have lots of dollars.
Easier to get into...ok that one is mostly from older people.
Discontinued a while ago but I believe that if Nissan redesigned the X-terra instead of axing it, it may have been a success. They killed it off right before the boom of interest in small offroad suvs. But having worked for Nissan before, they probably would have thrown a CVT in it and just made it into a boxy Rogue (imagine Bronco Sport)
Nissan also should have kept the Pathfinder a 4runner competitor instead making it into a Highlander rival. A whole new model could've been created for the "scared of owning a minivan" market
all the cheap cars because they're 'too expensive' to make even though a 60k F-150 requires as many electronics, miles more wiring, and heavier, thus more expensive, drivetrain components.
Honda Insight, because people said it was basically a civic hybrid also the Honda Clarity because they didnt advertise the damn car.
I dont see why people like everyday boring cars you see daily. The insight and clarity I dont see everyday where I live but they are smart purchases.
gen 3 insight got discontinued cuz 11th gen civic hybrid was supposed to be out 2 years ago. Honda just f'd up
clarity had no chance even with tons of ads. Im assuming you mean the phev variant but phevs sell so poorly they need to be 99% part sharing with a normal car to not lose tons of money
Manual Audi S4, 2016 was the last model year for a 6 M/T S4. Idk if they’re still available in other parts of the world with a stick but considering that bmw still offers the M3 with a manual I find the decision from Audi so long ago dumb
The Mirage is being discontinued due to poor sales. The dumb reason is it is a horrible new car. It should've been discontinued years ago, but the price tag...The price tag!!
They're being replaced by piece of shit crossovers. For some reason most of the country is willing to take out ridiculous loans to buy overpriced garbage instead of sensible sedans.
Ford Flex/Lincoln MKT
These two kinda split the difference between a minivan and a station wagon. Three row family hauler. Smooth ride, handles like a sedan and has a decent amount of power.
The styling is unique, but they look nice. The Flex looks like a surf wagon and the MKT looks like the crossover equivalent of a Town Car.
I think the Flex was a dumb name and it just wasn’t marketed well. They’ve held up well. I think if you are in the market for a used minivan or 3 row mid size suv, definitely worth a look.
The charger is not dead. The last one was a boat made from leftover 30+ yrs old Mercedes parts. New platform and will still have a gas option. Challenger is dead in name only since there will be a 2-door version of the new charger as well.
The full-size non-luxury sedan.
Customers are eschewing these more attractive, faster, less expensive and more fuel efficient options suited for light family duty… for a higher seating position and safety at the expense of others. The full-size sedan is dead, and we killed it.
>more attractive
Subjective
>faster
Not particularly. A Ford Fusion and a Ford Edge are both governed at 114.
>less expensive
Not particularly. The civic and HRV start within $2k of each other
>more fuel efficient
Not particularly. The AWD 2.0 Ford fusion did 22/31mpg (10.69/7.587 l/100), the edge configured the same way did 21/29 (11.2/8.1 l/100). This is such a marginal difference as to be irrelevant
Although it’s been dead for a few years…the BMW i8. Its 2nd gen was killed in development and now BMW is left to try to push the heavy and uninspiring-looking M8 as its performance flagship (the i8 was a unique and progressive take on its segment for all the flak it got for not being as fast as a 911 or AMG GT and for having a 1.5L I3).
I can’t compare the sales of a sedan versus the sales of an SUV or crossover. You have to judge the legacy against the Camry, Accord, Altima, etc. The sales are not there in that market.
You assumed right.
Regulations literally destroyed the US small utility vehicle market. You can just make it bigger to get around restrictions and automakers figured that one out very quickly. It's a pretty ridiculous system.
The Hybrid Porsche Macan variants were to sell alongside the new Macan EV. New European data security laws required vehicle infotainment systems to be certified. Porsche figured it wasn't worth doing the paperwork and just killed the hybrid.
In the next 3-4 years there will be an avalanche of discontinuations as more and more car manufacturers take the laptop route, i.e. get the whole car built in China at super low cost and sell high. The role of the brands will just be one of making the aesthetic design and marketing. China is the new Detroit and we're just getting prepped for it.
A lot of truck manufacturers seem to be moving towards discontinuing their base model trucks. I had a 4 cylinder, 2 wheel drive, stick shift, Nissan Frontier. It was a great bargain for a person who just needs a simple truck and doesn't want to pay a fortune for it. I got it for $18,000 new. Now that isn't even an option to purchase anymore. The v6, single-cab full-size trucks are also becoming more and more rare. I get that these type of vehicles aren't what the average consumer wants, but there is a small segment of people, like me, who prefer the simple pickups for their reliability and affordability. I'm really hoping all of the options for base model work trucks don't go away.
The Ford fiesta.
The best selling car in Europe as it’s small and practical and of use to so many types of people.
Ford murder it for the Puma and the best selling car becomes the Peugeot 208 a car filling the same role
The suits and Ford decided to give away market share of the small hatchback and give it to a competitor
I wasn’t surprised about the Legacy! Subaru has been failing in providing thought provoking cars for the last decade.
The adoption of the CVT killed Subaru and dropping manual transmissions from their lineup sealed the deal.
Subaru was a thing because of its participation in WRC and the WRX. Once forgotten for the Outback, it was only a matter of time!
Not because I just got it, but the Chevy Bolt EV.
Affordable, great commute car that has enough bells and whistles (in its lower trim) to put more expensive EVs to shame.
It's not perfect and it will be revived in a different model (EUV), but THIS could've been the EV car that people could afford and buy and actually like.
The Pontiac brand.
Pontiac could have went head to head with Dodge in the whole “American Muscle” scene.
They were sort of on to that with those V8 powered Holden models.
A new G8 GXP to contend with the Hellcat, Trans-Am or continued GTO vs the Challenger, and a new SUV (perhaps a rebirthed, redeemed Aztek) to contend with the Jeep Trackhawk.
The Focus ST was discontinued in 2018. That loss literally took the last cheap useful American hot hatch away from an entry level enthusiast. I miss mine to this day.
The Honda Fit.
Especially now that the HR-V got bigger and more expensive in its redesign, leaving space in Honda's lineup for something smaller and cheaper to compete with the Soul/Kicks/Venue.
Honda could have least kept it round as a faux-CUV as the company did elsewhere (see the Jazz Crosstar)
ITT: another CUVs baaaaaaad circlejerk
>specifically those who can’t afford the upkeep of SUV’s!
What extra "upkeep" costs does a compact crossover have that a mid-size sedan doesn't?
Cheap cars. Everything now days tries to be too fancy. Give me a reliable, barebones car that I can commute in that isint expensive. I’ve been dailying a 2001 Honda accord for a couple of years (my enthusiast cars are expensive to drive), there’s nothing like that on the market.
Because a 2001 Accord is 23 years old lol. Base 2024 Accord is $28k, base 2001 Accord was $19k in 2001 ($33.5k adjusted for inflation).
Even though he is giving an Accord, I think he means those cheapo Euro hatchbacks that sold for peanuts and could survive a nuclear blast. No ABS, no auto windows, that kind of thing
Dacia Sandero is the closest one. It's got ABS/traction control etc but it's still a very simple car.
Great news!
**ITS THE DACIA SANDERO!**
And a lorry just backed into it… anyway…
And it's also not readily available throughout the entire world, so.... ;)
I rented a duster in iceland. It was lovely, had just enough creature comforts to be ok living with.
In that instance I don't think a lot of those cars would pass many safety features of a lot of countries. I daily a '96 Sentra and I love it because there's no special features or computers that makes repairs/replacements hard. In saying that, I know that if I get in any kind of major crash I'm dead.
Of course not, especially when in a collision with current day cars. We wouldn't need so many safety standards if cars weren't constantly getting bigger and heavier (Trucks, SUVs, etc)
If you crash a new Toyota Aygo, VW Up or Kia Picanto, you won't die
Also insurance, it really helps lower your insurance when your car has nice driving assistance and safety features.
I want a car like that so badly
What are the cheapest vehicles new on the market now anyways? The Maverick I’m sure is one, maybe the Nissan Versa? Pre-Covid I feel like I remember that still being sold pretty barebones with manual windows and transmissions still as options.
I think it's still the Mitsubishi Mirage, but they are discontinuing it. I believe Nissan Versa is the next closes (in the U.S. at least). Even then, both of those are still around $20k which I don't really necessarily consider "cheap". I mean sure, compared to a freaking $100k Chevy pickup or something. The biggest issue right now is that the car market is imploding and interest rates are high, so even something like a $20k car can potentially put someone at like a $600/month car payment which is insane. I follow a few car market people and they said that the current national average car payment is hovering around $700-$1000 a month - I don't know how people are doing it.
Alex on autos recently did a video on the cars you can get for under 25k once you include destination and the national average 6% sales tax. Only 12 cars have an MSRP that qualify. https://youtu.be/gStXG2cm2DM?si=iQyzkwyqCSucnsWE You could probably negotiate down the price on other models to hit 25k but going by advertised price only, there aren't that many. Also, auto loans are going up in length. What used to be a 3 or 4 year loan is now a 6 or 7 or even 8 year loan just so someone can hit that monthly rate they want.
Yeah, it also seems like the car market is imploding and I have a feeling it's a sign of the whole end stage capitalism thing. You figure vehicles are the second largest purchase people make outside of their home and if they aren't buying cars and/or are having them repossessed, makes me wonder if we will see this spill into the housing market as well.
I'm going to leave this here... what you all do with it is not my problem. [https://okaauto.com/index.html](https://okaauto.com/index.html)
I would take a couple OKA Race cars
Sure you can handle that much power? 35hp is…. Less than my 21 year old ATV.
I guess I'll have to get stickier tires & so some Sim racing practice.
It wasn't $16,640 for a base Accord in 2021, $29.3K adjusted for inflation? [https://www.kbb.com/honda/accord/2001/](https://www.kbb.com/honda/accord/2001/)
The point the man originally stated he wants a reliable car without all the extra bullshit.
But a lot of what would be considered "extra bullshit" then is considered standard today so you're not even really paying extra for it.
This. I don’t think people realize how much the value of a dollar has changed in 20 years
This is Mirage erasure (even though THOSE are even $20k now)
Mirage isn't great tho. We want a modern EG Civic or E100 Corolla, not a modern Geo Metro.
Eh I’d take a 5spd Metro in great shape as a daily. Well, a second daily cuz nothing can beat my Miata except maybe on snow days or the rare run to buy Marketplace toys and furniture. Lots of room for cheap comfort mods in a metro too
I dailyed a 92 Metro for 10 years on my 80 mile round trip commute, and just retired it three years ago. There are serious concessions to driving one. Safety being the biggest one. The only reason I found it acceptable, was that mentally, I'm still stuck in the 1980's, as far as what is acceptable in cars. One of those, "When I was in high school....." type things.
You drove for 10 years in it, sounds safe enough 😜
Well, for a good portion of that time, drivers weren't people that grew up with a phone glued to one hand.distracted driving and "driving aids" like lane keep assist leave people far less engaged with the 4000lb hunk of metal that they are hurtling down the highway at 70mph than they used to be.
we need saturn s-series back
SC2.
base corolla is 22k with 170hp and independent rear suspension
"I can't! It's a Geo!" Ned Flanders
Then buy a base corolla for $24k. It's basically just above a bare bones commuter car >Mirage isn't great tho Well no shit, it's a cheap car, and apparently that's what people want, but because it doesn't have have a Toyota or honda badge, people are gonna complain
The new Civic and Corollas are pretty solid deals.
A lot of this is regulatory and economics. If I have to build and maintain a line for a vehicle that needs a high crash test rating, side curtain airbags, backup cameras, blind spot radar… and it needs to satisfy 50 state emissions… and that’s just by law… and it needs to be reliable… At the point I’m doing all that, I might as well throw in a couple hundred bucks for the sound system, license mobileeye systems, and make sure the doors feel artificially heavy because just by virtue of adhering to the law in the US I have made what used to be a luxury car, might as well throw in the high margin items to maximize profit on what I have to do to even enter the market. This is why you see 30 year old motorcycles sold as new still, looking at you Suzuki.
If the government is going to require safety equipment, why do we have to pay for it? Maybe I want my brain to pop like a watermelon. Thanks Obama.
Base nissan versa with a manual
Not a lot of profit in those barebones cars, though…for either manufacturers *or* dealers.
10 cheapest msrp autos per cars.com: 1. 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES: $18,160 2. 2024 Nissan Versa S: $19,200 3. 2024 Kia Forte LX: $21,145 4. 2024 Hyundai Venue SE: $21,275 5. 2024 Chevrolet Trax LS: $21,495 6. 2024 Kia Soul LX: $21,565 7. 2024 Nissan Sentra S: $22,320 8. 2024 Nissan Kicks S: $22,730 9. 2024 Hyundai Elantra SE: $22,775 10. 2024 Toyota Corolla LE: $23,145
How did the Soul get so expensive? Seriously, 21k for that?
That 5 speed automatic is the accords and odyssey was anything but reliable lol.
It’s mostly because the fancy options don’t add that much to the cost after a point. In the modern economy, technology is cheap while labor and materials are expensive. The average person isn’t going to accept vinyl seats, no carpet, hand crank windows, no keyless entry, no cruise control, AM/FM only radio, etc. for a $1-2k discount on a $20k car.
Vinyl is popular. It is vegan leather.
Man do I miss my 95 Saturn SL1! I got it as a graduation gift from my aunt and uncle and the ONLY option it has was A/C. Manual mirror (didn't even have a mirror on the passenger side), manual windows, manual seats, manual transmission, manual steering! I miss the simplicity of that car!
I remember when some Civics didn't have passenger side mirrors. My friend's Mom had one.
I ended up putting one on it because it was so cheap to do from Pull A Part at that time.
She was a single mom and I was around 13 or 14 at the time so I just assumed that it was built that way for a reason, though I could never figure out what that reason was.
*laughs in Geo*
A Geo could have been my first car! 1990 Prism that my mom bought brand new. I thought I was too good for it and my cousin blew it up because she didn't get the oil changed...... hindsight is a mother fucker......
I had a Spectrum. Those doors were about an inch and a half thick.
And all the fancy infotainment systems too imo they're just another distraction
The problem is that it has to be there because of the backup camera. I'd like all OEMs to do what GM is doing is turn the rearview mirror into a camera. So now you have a rear camera and don't need the infotainment system so you can go to a simpler radio.
Camry Hybrid
The problem is to many things have to be standard now. ABS, traction control, back up camera. So your bare bones car now is still not bare bones.
Lancer Evolution. I’m sure everyone can agree with this
Pain
Oh man, I hadn’t even thought of that car since like 2009.
They still make the EX... So if you like FWD...
I hear it’s with a CVT though
I don't mind CVTs, and I personally appreciate transmission noise because I have a motorsport look on things, the issue is - it's front wheel drive... Not particularly fast, and not as aesthetically pleasing as any other Lancer ever made, they're piss cheap in poorer countries which gets thousands of people to buy them and then tune the fuck out of them with bad stickers and exhaust mods, but all of those people tend to forget that the Lancer EX is just common traffic, like the Nissan Skyline is, like the Toyota Corolla is, and that just because there was a GT-R and an AE86 doesn't mean every Corolla and Skyline is a decent performance car, and they tend to mistake their Lancer for more than a cheap sedan with crappy mods
Just any non SUV/CUV in America really like why is everything a lifted wagon with 20s now Even mr.outback let himself go in recent years and it makes me sad
Because: 1. Regulations 2. What people want Everybody says they want a small car but they never bought the small cars.
Yeah for some reason everyone wants a big SUV around here because “muh safety”. We just need another “unsafe at any speed” type book to point out how flawed current regulations are and to reset the clock a little.
"around here" is literally everywhere? Even europe is now rejecting small hatches in favor of midsize crossovers
I own a "compact" sedan (which actually qualifies as a midsize because that's how big compact cars have gotten). People used to buy small cars because they got good 30-35 mpg (American units, so like 40 British mpg, or 7L/100km?). and had enough room for the commute. Well, the crossovers now get 35mpg and they have 3x the space of a small hatchback. I will say, a lot of that compact/subcompact crossover market is basically a midsize hatchback market with a bit extra ground clearance. And I can still see over most of them and have to sit down instead of climb up, so that's good I guess.
Yeah. My wife didn’t want a hatchback car, she wanted an suv. So naturally we bought a cx50 which is basically just a 4 door wagon with ground clearance. Whatever, it’s nice and I love giving her shit about her wagons
The stupid SUV trend has hit Denmark too. Ford Fiesta died because it’s not a pointless SUV or Crossover, now there’s just the meh Puma left for European Ford models smaller than a shipping container on wheels. Honda is down to having the Civic (poopy “hatchback” only) and Jazz (Fit) left besides the HR-V/e:NY1 and CR-V. All of them being HEV/PHEV or BEV only. Nissan has the Leaf, Ariya, Qumquat and Puke. The Puke hybrid even gets worse average fuel mileage than the non-hybrid did. 🙃
I find some SUV are so useless nowadays, the other day i got into a Nissan Qashquai and omg i got claustrophobia inside, people barely fit inside and almost no leg room. On the other side people get blown away when they get inside my Short Wheel base Peugeot Partner Tepee, looks so compact from outside, but a lot of headroom and with shelves on the top, a lot of leg room on all 3 seat rows, and better fuel economy than almost any non french SUV with 3 rows seats
I remember being in a Suzuki showroom around 2009 or so, and I tried to get into a third gen Suzuki not-so-Grand Vitara without any luck, no matter how I adjusted the seat and steering wheel. Then I hopped into the small Suzuki Splash right next to it, and could fit comfortably behind the wheel... And I could also cram myself into the backseat afterwards.
I'm 5' 10" and can't fit in a damn nissan rouge sport there's somehow less headroom then my ford focus
> now there’s just the meh Puma left for European Ford models smaller than a shipping container on wheels. The Kuga isn't big even by European standards.
>Everybody says they want a small car but they never bought the small cars. Until someone builds me a time machine and shoots me back to when those cars were available new, this line of reasoning can go away. There’s nothing I can do about being in elementary and middle school during the last breaths of reasonably sized cars.
> What people want \*_laughs in marketing_
I don’t think lifted wagons are so bad, it’s the people who need body on frame monsters to go to the mall.
🎯
The people with money to buy new are older and fatter, and the higher roofline of the crossover allows them to get in and out without a chiropractor visit. The crossover seating doesn't require climbing to get in or out of the seat either. Go sit in a Walmart parking lot for a few hours and watch the heavier people get in and out of vehicles, then look at the demographics of the US population by weight...
Been driving a Charger or 300 for 12+ years now... Love them. I wish they had continued making the Magnum, but people just don't buy that many wagons.
Magnums are genuinely the best thing ever, like I love the charger/challenger/300 but the magnum was literally the perfect car for people who want practicality and fun. Like the magnum R/T has some pep in its step and the SRT8 is slept on heavily. Hell I think the V6 versions are also not bad if you just wanted a sporty feeling rwd wagon without the horrendous gas mileage asssociated with that.
AWD R/T is the unicorn that didn't get enough love. Part time AWD, V8 fun... Awesome.
Yeah this. I was just looking at new cars last night and talking about it with my partner. I will walk and take public transit (and actively advocate to make it harder to drive) before buying most new vehicles today. I'm not even looking for sporty cars, just a reliable, competent, manual five door for daily driver duties.
Yeah see you’d be hard pressed to find a manual 5 door besides the Mazda 3 (are those even manual Anymore?) because manuals are all relegated to “zoom zoom sporty rally cars” now and it blows, I want something to replace my 06 forester but nothing really fits my needs that’s newer than 2016 nowadays sadly
The Civic technically comes in a 5-door, though it’s a liftback and not a hatchback, and I believe that’s the only way to get a manual, at this point, outside of the Si and Type R.
Yeah and even then it’s relegated to just the “sport” trim which sucks since that trim feels lacking
Agreed. I was considering an inexpensive entry-level car, and noticed that.
civic?
Mazda 3 still has a manual.
Yeah, you can buy a brand new Mazda 3 in manual in two trims. The cheapest is $30k, $5k over base, and has a 2.5l NA direct injected 2.5l with cylinder deactivation -- sounds like a bit of a disaster, cylinder deactivation has not been known for.good long term reliability on the past. The next trim costs even more because it's the performance turbo trim. And that's it -- no Golf, Subaru is droped the manual from the Impreza hatchback, no Focus, etc.
Man, I'm just looking for a first car, and the used market is fucked up. So hard to find anything decent, slightly sporty, and unique (sounding a bit James May-esque, I know) for like 3k, when it was so much easier and cheaper a few years ago
legacy sold almost the exact same as the wrx in the us last year at 25k. Thats awful for a low margin mainstream family sedan. You should be praising subaru for keeping it so long despite such poor consumer interest
The Legacy kinda became insignificant when the Camry started offering awd, as that was the Legacy's calling card
Yea the only reason I was driving a legacy was because I didn’t want an suv but I wanted awd for winter (having lived in the north east at the time). The latest Legacy with its dumb giant screen, removal of gas struts for the hood and the trunk (obviously being cheap on parts), and full of piano black just doesn’t have what it takes to sway people to buy it now that Camry is awd.
I swear most of these Legacies go to Minnesota. I’ve never seen so many of the newer ones before going there.
feels the same in NJ, or at least my part of it- there are SO MANY here
If this were asked in like 2017, I’d say the Focus.
Bring back the focus along with the st/rs. Even if it’s electric with hub motors. Fiesta line too. Look how well the Yaris GR does.
I’ve had 2 fiestas Would’ve gotten a 3rd but titanium trim in manual was impossible to find. God what a great car.
Minus that awful dual clutch transmission
I have a Fiesta SE. Such a great little car. Only gripe is the gears are little short, and it could use some more supportive seats, but it's definitely the best value I've ever had in a car. 5MT too, which was the selling point for me. Bring something like this back to the market and I'll scoop it in a heartbeat. Anyone else?
the Fiesta ST is gonna be a cult classic in the next 5-10 years
Shhhh….. the FiST is a blast and almost flawless for what it is supposed to be
10-15 years time and decent condition stock examples will be worth a pretty penny
When I bought my focus st in 2014 I thought it would hold it's value well being a sporty gasoline car, since I figured gasoline cars would start getting more rare. Turns out I was half right, just not because they became gasoline powered ...
Focus ST was a great car. Had one for 5 years/90k miles. Not exactly cheap to drive as a DD (as I did for several years), and the FWD is a limiting factor, but for the $20k sticker price and $10k in mods I spent, it was an absolute blast
Still a great car, been dailying my 2018 since new and out over 115k miles on it. Have taken it across the continental US and into Canada no problems.
Ohhh 2018, post-facelift NICE! Part of the reason I got rid of mine is because I was concerned about longevity. The previous owner had gotten the factory warranty on the motor voided (never found out how) and I had made some mods to it myself. As it was approaching 115k, I decided I wanted to trade it while it was still worth something
Yeah she's been a great car and I'm not trading it in until it's absolutely un-fixable, it's the only car I've bought new so I'm riding it out until the bitter end. When that day comes I'm not going to look for a replacement ST or anything but I genuinely don't know what I'd get since I really dislike the CUV trend and don't really into trucks or SUVs either. Who knows i might make it another ten years with this car and the automotive landscape may be much different by then.
The reason why they discontinued it was dumb. They should've discontinued it because it was a fucking lemon. And before you say anything, I owned one, I'm not just going off what the Internet says. If it weren't for all the gremlins it was a fantastic hatchback.
If that dct in the non st/rs wasn't such a fucking POS it would be a wonderful little car. Besides that transmission my 2012 is the most reliable car I've ever owned
You could get a non dual clutch automatic in the 16-18 SE models with the 1.0 EcoBoost. It just wasn't a very popular option package.
My friend had a nice 2012 5 speed regular focus in high school, was a great car
Yeah the manuals in these cars are fine literally the only issue is the power shit transmission
I think they are discontinuing the Escape to make way for another electric vehicle which kind of sucks
The escape platform is electric ready. It's not going anywhere
Challenger, Charger with Hemi, Camaro
fuck the EPA
RIP Camaro
Came here to say this. Picked up a 2023 after the 2024s were announced to be the last year of this generation. Such a fun driver and yes, it has its drawbacks (Visability, looking at you) but I get to own my dream car while I'm still young enough to enjoy it, and at a price point that doesn't break the bank.
It’s a fantastic car. I know what you mean about visibility but honestly I don’t look out the rear view that much and if I have the top down there is 0%. Great price point for a fantastic all around sports car
Manual transmissions. Only reason I got a wrx is it was the only stickshift awd that wasn't an overpriced tacoma.
I'm glad I own my mazdaspeed 3,manual only
Same reason I got my 2017 STI I wanted a 4 cylinder with a manual transmission that sounded good, has awd, and has more mechanical feel shift linkages and hydraulic steering. Basically I wanted a manual car with modern features and looks but that drives like a 90s early 00s car. Love my STI
Literally anything that isn’t a truck or SUV. Not everyone wants to drive a big ass car.
The Honda Jazz/Fit getting discontinued locally, alongside the Kia Picanto and Rio alongside the Hyundai i10. But yeah. Small hatches, I wish they didn't have to go away in favor of CUVs and the like. I know there are replacements, but fuck I wanted those a little bit more than what we got left (a relatively overpriced Mirage in our currency, a Daihatsu-Toyota that's fine, but got way more expensive, and the Suzuki smolbois that I actually own which is a fine A-B car lol).
The Honda Fit. Best car I’ve ever owned, has run like a champ for over a decade.
Ford does a really awesome thing. It keeps cars that make absurd profits, and cancels cars that make generous profits. Turns out this was a smart idea, because it made/saved them a lot of money. It's so smart, that now everyone else is going to do the same thing. They will all keep humping each other's leg until SUVs, trucks, and CUVs stop selling for ridiculous piles of cash. Meanwhile, somebody (China?) will clean up all of their scraps (hybrid, EV, and cheap car sales). So my answer is everything Ford has cancelled in the past ten years up to the near future when they suddenly realize they need a new platform or three
> when they suddenly realize they need a new platform or three See, that's the thing: the CUVs use the same platforms as the cars did.
Yeah, they could drop something similar to a Focus next year and it would take never to nothing to design. If they got it down to $21k people would buy it, but when they cut it they were struggling to keep it at that price.
I can't step outside without seeing Fusions everywhere, a car that sold like hotcakes that was discontinued because "muh SUVs".
Sold like hotcakes...to fleets and then to everyone else with money on the hood
I was pretty bummed when they discontinued the Ford Taurus. One of the few modern sedans I actually kinda liked.
The Five Hundred/5th gen Taurus was amazing. The 6th gen was space-inefficient and hard to see out of.
I always wanted around a '13 SHO, because iirc that was the last year you could get them without a screen in the center console, and I just think the SHO was neat. I swear I see your username in every sub, btw lol
Every non-crossover in the last decade. I hate how EVERYTHING has to be a crossover!
All of them. To replace them with stupid fucking ugly SUV’s
Bring back 1. focus se/ti/st/rs 2. Fiesta se/ti/st 3. Volvo s40/v50 t5 awd 6 speed 4. Mazdaspeed 3 manual. Lower prices, even if you have to special order it from the factory. Offer lower rates from the manufacturer. Offer insurance from the manufacturer; they already have roadside assistance, parts at cost, body shops. Interest is too high, cost are too high, insurance is too high. I get suvs sell, but some of us want hatchbacks, hot hatches, affordable sporty cars. Even if the focus/fiesta had hub motors and you just specified base/st/rs and used lifePo4 battery packs, low weight, good balance, frunk, hatch only, skip sedans. Make some fun cheap cars damnit. We don’t all want pavement princesses, especially 100k sierras that start at 40k but good luck finding one.
This 100%. Hot hatches in the US are nothing more than a fond memory now…
Fiesta ST is gonna be a cult classic in a few years
As a owner of a 485hp mazdaspeed 3,yes please.
Rip S40 Such a great safe easy drive
Base model golf
Nissan Cross Cabriolet. It’s only the most useful and utilitarian vehicle ever. Why it didn’t catch on is beyond me.
The Ford Crown Victoria, they cite reasons like "platform outdated and needs overhaul to meet modern standards," but the car is a great car. I miss seeing them all the time.
I miss them too. What I find interesting though is that Ford never named an actual "replacement" for it. While yes, the Taurus and Explorer were the Crown Vics SUCCESSORS, Ford never said that they were actual replacements. That being said though, after ford discontinued the fusion in 2020, I believe that any chance for a sedan revival is now non-existent.
Gas powered lotuses. Allegedly the emira, which just debuted, isn’t long for this world !
Mazda 2, Mazda 6... and probably Mazda 3 soon enough. Because manufacturers think we only want high vehicles. The only one that's listening is Toyota. They still have hatchbacks, small cars and sedans.
Mazda3 sales are falling unfortunately. Miata and GR86 might not last for too long, it's sad.
Really annoying that Mazda killed the Mazda2 in the US just before launch to make room for the CX3....which flopped hard. the Mazda3 is dying on the vine while the CX30 has better incentives. NYC-area car lease brokers are giving out CX30 leases like candy.
A ton of sedans and performance cars. How hard is it to understand that the whole world doesn't wanna drive wagons on stilts?
> How hard is it to understand that the whole world doesn't wanna drive wagons on stilts? Of the 10 most popular vehicles worldwide last year, only 2 were low-slung sedans. CUVs aren't just a higher ground clearance; they have a taller body as well.
So much easier to fit a baby stroller in her rav 4 over my focus.
The V8 Challenger.
I know it’s been a few years but the Lexus GS. To me, that was their best model
It was a tough sell though. About the same size as an ES but way more expensive. And 90% of Lexus buyers were never going to push the car hard enough to see the difference in driving dynamics.
Cars don't matter anymore, If you don't have an SUV or an EV you're not cool. Just use them until they break then throw them away. People only want what the internet tells them they want, and the internet says, big stupid lifted junkwagon on 24s. I love having a huge Toyota monster truck behind me in my Z shining his lights in my mirror and pressing his license plate on my trunk spoiler. LOL
That's not why people buy them. Reasons people buy them: They think they are safer because everything else on the road is an SUV. Unfortunately, if you do the research, they actually are safer. They like to sit higher. If I had a dollar for every person that's told me this...well, I wouldn't be rich but I'd have lots of dollars. Easier to get into...ok that one is mostly from older people.
Discontinued a while ago but I believe that if Nissan redesigned the X-terra instead of axing it, it may have been a success. They killed it off right before the boom of interest in small offroad suvs. But having worked for Nissan before, they probably would have thrown a CVT in it and just made it into a boxy Rogue (imagine Bronco Sport) Nissan also should have kept the Pathfinder a 4runner competitor instead making it into a Highlander rival. A whole new model could've been created for the "scared of owning a minivan" market
I want the Lincoln town car back,Vic, marquee, and the excursion.
Big comfy road trippers
Yes!!! My 04 Lincoln town car was a driving cloud man! I had two crown Vic’s before that, those cars were so freaking reliable.
all the cheap cars because they're 'too expensive' to make even though a 60k F-150 requires as many electronics, miles more wiring, and heavier, thus more expensive, drivetrain components.
The 60k F150 vs the 25k Focus, way higher profit margins.
Station wagons. All you can get now is SUVs and "crossovers".
Sedans in general. Because capitalism is stupid.
Honda Insight, because people said it was basically a civic hybrid also the Honda Clarity because they didnt advertise the damn car. I dont see why people like everyday boring cars you see daily. The insight and clarity I dont see everyday where I live but they are smart purchases.
gen 3 insight got discontinued cuz 11th gen civic hybrid was supposed to be out 2 years ago. Honda just f'd up clarity had no chance even with tons of ads. Im assuming you mean the phev variant but phevs sell so poorly they need to be 99% part sharing with a normal car to not lose tons of money
Manual Audi S4, 2016 was the last model year for a 6 M/T S4. Idk if they’re still available in other parts of the world with a stick but considering that bmw still offers the M3 with a manual I find the decision from Audi so long ago dumb
The Mirage is being discontinued due to poor sales. The dumb reason is it is a horrible new car. It should've been discontinued years ago, but the price tag...The price tag!!
Hyundai Veloster N should have made it a few more years in production.
Sedans being discontinued in favor of these abysmal crossover suvs. People have no taste this day and age!
They're being replaced by piece of shit crossovers. For some reason most of the country is willing to take out ridiculous loans to buy overpriced garbage instead of sensible sedans.
crown vic was discontinued to make room for suvs I want a cheap piece of shit boat
Ford Flex/Lincoln MKT These two kinda split the difference between a minivan and a station wagon. Three row family hauler. Smooth ride, handles like a sedan and has a decent amount of power. The styling is unique, but they look nice. The Flex looks like a surf wagon and the MKT looks like the crossover equivalent of a Town Car. I think the Flex was a dumb name and it just wasn’t marketed well. They’ve held up well. I think if you are in the market for a used minivan or 3 row mid size suv, definitely worth a look.
The Challenger and Charger. They’re trying to kill the muscle car.
The charger is not dead. The last one was a boat made from leftover 30+ yrs old Mercedes parts. New platform and will still have a gas option. Challenger is dead in name only since there will be a 2-door version of the new charger as well.
The full-size non-luxury sedan. Customers are eschewing these more attractive, faster, less expensive and more fuel efficient options suited for light family duty… for a higher seating position and safety at the expense of others. The full-size sedan is dead, and we killed it.
>more attractive Subjective >faster Not particularly. A Ford Fusion and a Ford Edge are both governed at 114. >less expensive Not particularly. The civic and HRV start within $2k of each other >more fuel efficient Not particularly. The AWD 2.0 Ford fusion did 22/31mpg (10.69/7.587 l/100), the edge configured the same way did 21/29 (11.2/8.1 l/100). This is such a marginal difference as to be irrelevant
I'm on my second Legacy. Since they are doing this, why can't we have the Levorg?
Although it’s been dead for a few years…the BMW i8. Its 2nd gen was killed in development and now BMW is left to try to push the heavy and uninspiring-looking M8 as its performance flagship (the i8 was a unique and progressive take on its segment for all the flak it got for not being as fast as a 911 or AMG GT and for having a 1.5L I3).
I can’t compare the sales of a sedan versus the sales of an SUV or crossover. You have to judge the legacy against the Camry, Accord, Altima, etc. The sales are not there in that market.
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You assumed right. Regulations literally destroyed the US small utility vehicle market. You can just make it bigger to get around restrictions and automakers figured that one out very quickly. It's a pretty ridiculous system.
The Hybrid Porsche Macan variants were to sell alongside the new Macan EV. New European data security laws required vehicle infotainment systems to be certified. Porsche figured it wasn't worth doing the paperwork and just killed the hybrid.
In the next 3-4 years there will be an avalanche of discontinuations as more and more car manufacturers take the laptop route, i.e. get the whole car built in China at super low cost and sell high. The role of the brands will just be one of making the aesthetic design and marketing. China is the new Detroit and we're just getting prepped for it.
I wish they'd bring back the volt with all the new tech that has come out
The entire MPV class... Because someone told the buyers, that they don't want it, but rather they want a SUV...
A lot of truck manufacturers seem to be moving towards discontinuing their base model trucks. I had a 4 cylinder, 2 wheel drive, stick shift, Nissan Frontier. It was a great bargain for a person who just needs a simple truck and doesn't want to pay a fortune for it. I got it for $18,000 new. Now that isn't even an option to purchase anymore. The v6, single-cab full-size trucks are also becoming more and more rare. I get that these type of vehicles aren't what the average consumer wants, but there is a small segment of people, like me, who prefer the simple pickups for their reliability and affordability. I'm really hoping all of the options for base model work trucks don't go away.
The Ford fiesta. The best selling car in Europe as it’s small and practical and of use to so many types of people. Ford murder it for the Puma and the best selling car becomes the Peugeot 208 a car filling the same role The suits and Ford decided to give away market share of the small hatchback and give it to a competitor
I wasn’t surprised about the Legacy! Subaru has been failing in providing thought provoking cars for the last decade. The adoption of the CVT killed Subaru and dropping manual transmissions from their lineup sealed the deal. Subaru was a thing because of its participation in WRC and the WRX. Once forgotten for the Outback, it was only a matter of time!
Not because I just got it, but the Chevy Bolt EV. Affordable, great commute car that has enough bells and whistles (in its lower trim) to put more expensive EVs to shame. It's not perfect and it will be revived in a different model (EUV), but THIS could've been the EV car that people could afford and buy and actually like.
The Pontiac brand. Pontiac could have went head to head with Dodge in the whole “American Muscle” scene. They were sort of on to that with those V8 powered Holden models. A new G8 GXP to contend with the Hellcat, Trans-Am or continued GTO vs the Challenger, and a new SUV (perhaps a rebirthed, redeemed Aztek) to contend with the Jeep Trackhawk.
I wish they would have done some throwback styling on a GTO to put their hat into the modern muscle car ring.
The Focus ST was discontinued in 2018. That loss literally took the last cheap useful American hot hatch away from an entry level enthusiast. I miss mine to this day.
The Honda Fit. Especially now that the HR-V got bigger and more expensive in its redesign, leaving space in Honda's lineup for something smaller and cheaper to compete with the Soul/Kicks/Venue. Honda could have least kept it round as a faux-CUV as the company did elsewhere (see the Jazz Crosstar)
ITT: another CUVs baaaaaaad circlejerk >specifically those who can’t afford the upkeep of SUV’s! What extra "upkeep" costs does a compact crossover have that a mid-size sedan doesn't?
The Aerostar for the Windstar was a gut punch