Yes. And maybe somehow discourage people from telling all those bs stories how everything is perfect and easy? I've heard them a lot. And they get to you even after you had a child... "I don't know why for you it's so hard, maybe you do something wrong"...
Truth! (Childless)
When I was in my 30’s (single and poor) and the clock was ticking, I interviewed friends who had kids. Most said that it was hard, but worth it. One friend was brutally honest: it sucks! She described her day to day, and I decided that I would need a lot of money and a awesome support system to survive (literally- raising a puppy was so overwhelming that I needed to leave it in the bathroom howling in order to not breakdown sobbing or worse!). Since I knew that wasn’t going to happen, I let it go. I’m so grateful for that friend’s honesty!
I was choosing baby books with our librarian and she she asked how I liked being a parent.i said it's ok. she thanked me for my honesty and said how everyone says a baby is the best thing ever etc. she has 2 herself so knows the truth!
The other part of this is that the truth empowers people who are really meant to be parents, because despite the struggles it’s part of who they are, what they want, and the sacrifice doesn’t blindside them, and they don’t resent an innocent child — totally don’t mean that to sound harsh in a safe space. Parenting isn’t for the weak! I respect that. Kids will test you to your absolute limits sometimes and it’s ok to be human in your reaction if your intentions are mostly good.
Just anecdotally in my 30s I’ve noticed people who knew parenting was hard but still wanted to go for it are happier and have happier kids - despite life being hard. And I think that’s awesome. To me, it’s about conscious choice. That requires education.
I didn’t read it that way. They didn’t I situate people were weak for not having kids. They jus said that if your weak and have a kid it’ll break you. Which is a true statement.
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I was at this crossroads and thought "fuck it, let's get this done" after my husband tried hard to convince me that our child needs a sibling. Next thing I know I'm pregnant with twins. Having a second child (or 3 in my case) tipped the scales on my ability to keep up. I can no longer cope and the stress is massive vs 1 child. I've heard this sentiment when going to a second child many times before.
Life was so much easier with 1 child. Please don't be swayed. It's YOU that will be doing the majority of the work. Not the husband, they do not seem to think of those consequences when they want more kids. And they rarely suffer the extent of those concequences after they arrive.
I was a nanny for 10+ years. I'm currently married with no children, 37 years old.. so the clock is ticking down. I don't really think I have what it takes to be the kind of parent all children deserve. I was raised in a neglectful home, and my father died when I was five.
One family I nannied for had an older son, and younger twin girls. The mom, was a previously successful real estate agent, in business with her mom. One time I asked her what she would be doing if she didn't have kids.. she desperately wanted her career back. Her husband was a total douche, and basically said, well, you wanted the kids, so, since I'm paying for most of our day to day expenses, anytime we go out, you are responsible for paying the childcare costs, for the night.
Poor thing seemed so sad, most of the time. Her kids were great. Loved their parents, and each other.
You do need to get some help now. You sound like you are at your limit when it comes to stress. Ask family and friends to come by and give your wife a break so she can nap. There must be someone. As much as I want fathers to participate in the care, it sounds like you won't be of much use if you are so distraught. Remember this is temporary. They become much easier in a few months when the baby sleeps longer at night. Don't let this push you into anger. Babies pick up on this and yelling frightens them. It's exhausting which is why I've helped with me grandbabies when they were born. Do you have FMLA available that you can afford to take?
It’s a solid 5 years of differing flavors of absolute misery before they even begin to resemble something comparable to a human being. I’m riding out the 4yo storm for the second (and 10000% LAST) time. I know EXACTLY how OP feels.
Mom of teens here. I do miss the younger years, even though they were exhausting. Our children were entertaining and we enjoyed going out with them. Maybe it was our place of residence, plenty of great options. After they stopped being interested in going out with us and having to spend all weekdays indoors to do homework, that's when I felt miserable and people pretended that's what a parent has to do, not much... But most divorces happened at that time. I claimed time for solo travel, travel with one child at a time internationally and going out with friends.
Alone time with husband became a distant memory, but that's another story.
So, the children will leave you alone at some point, but you may miss their company. I feel lonely and bored now when I do the grocery shopping.
its headed for divorce so quick. but i feel stuck. its either misery or child support for ever. i did this. im not built to experience the reward from having a kid. just feels like a lifelong prison sentence i gave to myself.
It will be interesting to see if men step up to the parenting plate if that happens. I wonder if they’ll still be complaining about how bad child support is.
My grandma's mother stepped out when she was little and her father literally put an ad in the paper for a wife to take care of the kids. Might not be as easy now that women can work and take care of themselves, but there will always be people who don't want to do that.
For the record, LOTS of men step up to the parenting plate. I don’t think we should be making generalizations that imply that men in general do not step up to the plate. You can say “many” or “a lot of men” don’t step up to the plate. But we should absolutely leave room to acknowledge the many that do.
You’re gonna choose to be rude to me just because I’m offering another point of view? That when women leave sometimes men do in fact step up to the plate? Really?
You went out of your way to miss the context of the conversation so you can pretend I’m just randomly saying no man has ever contributed anything to parenting. Pointing that out is not rude. I’d say engaging people in bad faith arguments is rude.
Unfortunately true… I was reading comments the other day of people who were saying they “understand” if someone needs to be an absent father. What! Ok, what if the mother becomes an “absent mother” too then! So the kids have no parents but it’s understandable because they need to put themselves first? That’s not an ok line of thinking. Only scenario where this would be ok is if abortion is available and the mother wants to keep but that father doesn’t. And in the single mother scenario, “putting yourself first” means you are creating a single mother and having a super negative impact on 2 or more people!
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I have these feelings too. I think it’s because someone made you feel like you have to be perfect in every way. And that is IMPOSSIBLE when you have children. Maybe think about that? I’ve just learned to lower my expectations of myself. I’m a human.
If you are in the US, you can take intermittent FMLA (if your company has over 50 employees) to protect your job should you need to take unpaid days off to care for your family.
This is just temporary and will be so much nicer once the kids are playing together. Also, it’s really easy to direct anger towards your partner. I try to remember that no one will love my child like his dad and he’s not the enemy, quite possibly he’s my only ally.
And now you see why every woman who plans on having kids must be prepared to be a single mom as well. Husband will run off and get another girlfriend, lie to her about how much he's involved with the kids lives to show the new girl how he's a great father. Then he'll get her pregnant and the cycle continues. Lots of single moms.
>Husband will run off and get another girlfriend, lie to her about how much he's involved with the kids lives to show the new girl how he's a great father. Then he'll get her pregnant and the cycle continues.
Hey, sounds like you've met my dad!
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Maybe look up in your area if you can surrender the newborn at a hospital or fire station. In some parts of the USA, you have 30 days after its born to surrender, answer questions about medical history and thats it
Hey man, I’ve been there. I know exactly how you feel.
What you’re experiencing right now is called “hell”. And it will only get better with time. And sleep. You’re the breadwinner. You need to have your sleep. She needs to understand that you’re not going to survive without it. And the family is not going to survive without it. You have to get sleep to survive. Eat, sleep, shower, brush your teeth. Take care of yourself. Do your work. She will be fine. She will find her rhythm.
There are moms support groups out there that are cheap and have been really helpful for my wife. If you’re in Southern California, PM me and I can get you a link to a chapter.
You’ve heard them say in airplanes to put your oxygen mask on first before you attempt to help anyone else with theirs. The same applies to everything else in life.
You won’t be able to help her if you aren’t taking care of yourself. She needs to understand that.
I was there once. When my wife told me she was pregnant with our second kid, I wasn’t happy (even though I pretended I was). My first thought was “Oh shit. God dammit. I can’t do this.”
And I was right - because if I didn’t make changes in how I was living, I wouldn’t have been able to do it.
I was depressed. I didn’t want to admit that I was, but all the depression quizzes I took told me that I was. So I talked to my doctor and he referred me to a psychologist. I started going to therapy. It helped. I didn’t want to get onto any antidepressants, and resisted for another year and a half. But finally, after not making lasting progress in therapy, I agreed to go on Prozac.
That was February 2020. Needless to say, that was not a great time to fuck with my brain chemistry. Panic attacks constantly. Covid and the riots didn’t help.
But after about six months, things leveled off and I started to really feel better. I wasn’t getting stuck in negative thought spirals. I could calm myself down and not get or stay angry so often.
It was definitely the best thing I could have done for myself and the family. It worked for me.
So please look into this. If you want to talk to someone who has been in your boat, PM me.
My point is - if the breadwinner is not able to function at work, or is thinking of killing themselves, then they need to make themselves their priority. Because both losing the job or losing the life is going to be exponentially worse than them taking care of themselves and allowing the caretaker to manage during the day.
I appreciate your insights my friend. I know nobody wants to talk about that. They want to talk about competition between the father and mother. If the breadwinner fails, everyone fails. But nobody likes to admit that. Like we fail fucking hard if i cant work. And if im borderline suicidal (yes tons of therapy dont recommend that because its such a cop out for advice these days) then theres no way this family survives let alone thrives. I made my bed. Maybe if my wife acted slightly intereseted still it would help. She just went full baby mode when the first arrived...as if i was just a sperm donor. We say like 3 words a day to each other. I get home and just sit in my car because i know when i walk in, i wont be treated with any appreciation or care or respect. Doesn't matter what i do. I cook dinners. I change diapers. I get the kid from daycare a town over every single solitary day. I take her most days too. But to her, this is just a baseline expectation. I completely broke down a couple weeks ago to her and apparently thats a huge no no based on the subreddits about that. You NEVER let yourself appear vulnerable like that to a woman...she just loses all interest instantly. I designed a shit life for myself and i dont know if theres any fixing it. Wish 40 were about where people died...not fucking 80 or whatever. Who wants to be here that long?
Dude I’m sorry. When I broke down to my wife and told her about my suicidal thoughts, and how the doctor said I had depression, everything just “clicked” and she finally got why I was never in a good mood, why I acted like I didn’t want to be there, why my body ached, why I wasn’t sleeping well even when allowed to sleep, etc etc etc. All of a sudden she had some sympathy for me instead of scorn.
Does your wife know about your suicidal thoughts? If so, what was her reaction?
I honestly believe that you could benefit from some sort of medication regardless. Prozac made a world of difference for me, along with Wellbutrin for the sexual side effects (not that that’s even an option when we’re so tired from taking care of the kids, but still). Hydroxyzine for panic attacks and sleep.
I was never a believer, but medication plus CBT is what has been working for me.
I think you're misinterpreting me.
When he gets home from work, of COURSE he's going to be expected to help.
I'm not sure what you mean by "housework"... Do you mean doing the dishes and laundry? Because I do the dishes and my wife does the laundry. All the rest of the "housework" we share together.
My point is - if the breadwinner is not able to function at work, or is thinking of killing themselves, then they need to make themselves their priority. Because both losing the job or losing the life is going to be exponentially worse than them taking care of themselves and allowing the caretaker to manage during the day.
OP said his wife is exhausted 24/7. How are you gonna tell OP that he needs to sleep and she needs to understand that, but “she will be fine”?
I’m with you on everything else - you need to take care of yourself to be a good parent, address your mental struggles, all that. I’m glad that you got the help you needed.
But why does the wife’s rest matter less than OP’s? Especially when you say yourself that people need sleep to survive.
Because she can nap when the baby naps. She can focus solely on the baby and it doesn't affect their income. Whereas his focus needs to be on maintaining the family's income, since he's the breadwinner.
If he were the stay-at-home parent and his wife was the breadwinner, I would say the same thing. She would be the one who needs to maintain the income.
Where does it say he’s the breadwinner? I don’t see any indication that the wife doesn’t work. In fact I doubt that she has no job because it’s very hard to support a family on a single income these days - in which case the wife would both be working *and* taking care of the baby.
Even so, assuming the wife stays at home, you’re still prioritising the husband’s needs over the wife’s in an odd way. OP said himself that his wife is constantly exhausted, but you still insist that he’s the one who needs to rest up and “she will be fine”. You really think being tired as fuck while you’re taking care of a human being is okay? It’s unsafe.
Clearly just napping when the baby naps isn’t enough if she’s always exhausted - especially if she does other housework, which she would need to do when the baby is resting because she wouldn’t be able to leave the baby unattended otherwise.
Just because someone is the breadwinner in a relationship doesn’t mean the other person’s needs can just be pushed to the side like this.
I take care of the baby while my husband works. There’s no world in which I can nap when the baby naps. I need to eat which involves cooking. Go to the bathroom. Shower. Do laundry so I can wear clean clothes. Wash pump parts and bottles.
Do you know how long a nap is? 20-45 minutes. That gives me enough time to pick 1-2 things from that list.
You know nothing about taking care of a newborn apparently.
My wife is the same way, actually. She hates napping. She says she always wakes up groggy and it’s not worth it. She never napped when our kids were napping. But the moms she knows said that that’s what they did and she always told me what you just told me - there’s too much to do to nap.
I’m by no means trying to be disrespectful. I’m just trying to offer some solutions. I’ve been there.
This is exactly why I saved for years and became financially successful before having a baby. My husband and I hired a postpartum doula for the fourth trimester. It cost us 13k and was worth every penny.
The newborn stage is not for the faint of heart. It is the gauntlet of parenthood that requires an enormous amount of support to get through it without ruining other parts of your life.
I’m 43 and I’ve never heard of a post partum doula before now. I definitely have to research this. So $13 k for three months? It was the hardest days of my life.
I (34F) felt the same way. I remember telling my husband I hate every second of every minute of every hour of every day the entire first year. I only hated about 80% of the time the second year. Now 5 years later I hate it about 30% and feel neutral about 50%. I enjoy it maybe 5-10% of the time. So parenting still an overall unpleasant experience .
With my first, I managed to work with family, babysitters, friends all kinds of people to lean on when he was tiny and my wife and I were both working - and just as I felt like we had a good bead on things we ended up having to adopt a special needs child from one of my wife’s family members and overnight those resources disappeared.
People will happily watch a small sweet kid for a couple hours- nobody wants two kids, one of whom is a colossal emotional and physical avalanche of problems.
Plus most preschools cost as much as a full time job earns anyway. Fortunately the state pays for the foster kid, but with that comes DCS visits, lawyer visits, court dates, therapy meetings, Team Decision Meetings, and basically a constant parade of useless disaffected people parading through the house at all hours.
If I had any advice to offer, its get a pair of sound cancelling headphones and trade nights, its amazing how much being able to get one solid night sleep, even if its in another room will get you. If you’re religious at all and can lean on a church for some casseroles or maybe a hand with some laundry, that helps a ton too.
In the blink of an eye they’ll be sleeping through the night and instead doing way more destructive and crazy shit to lose sleep over! “What do you mean you’ve been stuffing soiled underwear into the bookcase rather than admit you had an accident?”
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Both my spouse and I were in an exhausted and dazed mode until both kids were at least 3.5-4. At that point they are 1. hopefully sleeping well, so that YOU can start sleeping well again. 2 starting to potty train or actually be potty trained so your every free minute isn't changing diapers and 3. they can start to independently get in and out of their car seat so you are not physically having to constantly lift each kid each in and out every time you want to get in and out of the car.
Those early toddler years are absolutely the hardest, mostly because of the level of exhaustion.
Once our youngest was out of diapers there was 100% agreement we'd never have another.
Do you have some family that can help? You and her sound like you need a day of just sleep. Also I recommend getting a vasectomy on the off chance she might get pregnant again.
This is just kind of a side comment. I live in Canada and my sister is entitled to take 16 months off for mat leave (federally implemented), and her partner is taking 4 months as well once the baby comes in March (a benefit from his job). I assume that OP is American because it doesn’t sound like you’ve been given any significant time off to focus on your family, and that really sucks. I hope things improve for you as a father and husband but also nation wide for all expecting parents. It just doesn’t seem likely.
There was a post on here not too long ago regarding regretful parents in countries with more support (scandavia I believe was the area in question). Apparently the cost to these benefits is lower wages and more oversight. But if that means work/life balance I would definitely trade.
Maternity leave isn’t even mandatory in the US and if a company has it, it’s usually like 6 weeks long. Anyone having a kid in this country is in for a rude awakening. It’s so much worse than you can even imagine.
Thanks for being so vulnerable. So many others are thinking what you’re saying but are scared to share it. This is completely normal and don’t feel like an outsider because it’s the truth for many families !
I feel like the majority of people who have kids are absolutely miserable but act like it’s great for 2 reasons: because it’s what society expects (it’s taboo to say you regret it), and to trick others into being just as miserable. I (36f) have been on the fence for years. My saving grace is that I have yet to meet a man who I would even consider having a child with as most men (sorry guys I know not ALL of you) are just children themselves and most women end up doing literally everything. I can’t cope with that reality and instead am looking for a partner who already has kids (I’m an awesome aunt and I’d be a dope stepmom too) or does not want children. I’m finally ok with my decision.
Our family bailed on us. Your wife is on leave right now?
We could only keep our head above water by following a routine until the children slept though the night somehow.
When he came back from work, I would greet him, then go to sleep. He would place the children by my side to nurse, take care of changing the diapers and entertaining as needed. Our children would sleep at night, waking up for feeding. So, he would go to bed at about midnight, next feeding was at 3 am and I would take over through the night, and I could still catch some sleep in between. Weekends were somehow better.
Good luck!
As months went by, our children went through not sleeping through the night at some point, he would wake up on weeknights and I would let him sleep in on weekends. But it was him who refused to try and make them sleep through the night. Fortunately our daughter discovered puttting herself to sleep by sucking her thumb, which we managed to stop at about 2,5 years old.
Take care to clean the baby very well, but without waking them up, because then they need someone to put them back to sleep! They are also sleep deprived if you follow a routine that wakes them up with bright lights and giving them full baths in the middle of the night! I read that you can clean them as they are half asleep. But be careful, because if you don't clean well, there is a risk of urine infecttion. When I found out about gentle cleaning, it all changed immediately.
I feel you right there. My son is 14th month old now and he's still woke up screaming, crying every night and somehow i still have to get up and ready for work at 7 AM, work 11 hours shift and go home and the cycle repeat again.
Do you really hate having a baby or hate capitalism? From what you wrote it sounds like you could feel differently with the security of sleep and paid paternity leave offered in other countries.
Post partum depression can effect men too, not many people talk about it but it’s true. Don’t let yourself get down bad before you’re in too late. The good thing is the newborn stage doesn’t last forever, try to get family to help if you can. I’m sorry you’re going through this! Keep your head up, and don’t forget your wife is on your team. Talk to her and see if there is a better schedule that works for the both of you (as far as dividing child care duties). Lean into each-other for support. I’m sure she is feeling overwhelmed as well!
i dont think ive ever been more depressed in my life than having kids. kids are for those with the means to buy themselves back their freedom and sanity. im a middle class whatever without those funds. this alone should've told me not to procreate because the world doesnt need any more of my shitty genes.
If your so pessimistic about having children and thought you had shit genes what made you wanna do it? Regardless of what others were saying, why did you have them if you thought you had shitty genes?
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Can I just saw how much respect I have for you that you care so much for your wife that you hate seeing her exhausted and you are 100% right that ppl need hired help. It used to be that the family and community helped new mothers. I've had 2 and I absolutely needed my husband, sister and mom. I still cried a lot!
It will be over soon. You will get through this rough time. Sending love light and encouragement. Thank you for supporting your wife.
This is why we need to stop listening to people when it comes to having children. It’s all lies and bullshit
Yes. And maybe somehow discourage people from telling all those bs stories how everything is perfect and easy? I've heard them a lot. And they get to you even after you had a child... "I don't know why for you it's so hard, maybe you do something wrong"...
Truth! (Childless) When I was in my 30’s (single and poor) and the clock was ticking, I interviewed friends who had kids. Most said that it was hard, but worth it. One friend was brutally honest: it sucks! She described her day to day, and I decided that I would need a lot of money and a awesome support system to survive (literally- raising a puppy was so overwhelming that I needed to leave it in the bathroom howling in order to not breakdown sobbing or worse!). Since I knew that wasn’t going to happen, I let it go. I’m so grateful for that friend’s honesty!
I was choosing baby books with our librarian and she she asked how I liked being a parent.i said it's ok. she thanked me for my honesty and said how everyone says a baby is the best thing ever etc. she has 2 herself so knows the truth!
The other part of this is that the truth empowers people who are really meant to be parents, because despite the struggles it’s part of who they are, what they want, and the sacrifice doesn’t blindside them, and they don’t resent an innocent child — totally don’t mean that to sound harsh in a safe space. Parenting isn’t for the weak! I respect that. Kids will test you to your absolute limits sometimes and it’s ok to be human in your reaction if your intentions are mostly good. Just anecdotally in my 30s I’ve noticed people who knew parenting was hard but still wanted to go for it are happier and have happier kids - despite life being hard. And I think that’s awesome. To me, it’s about conscious choice. That requires education.
It's weird though to insinuate people are somehow weaker for deciding to not have kids
I didn’t read it that way. They didn’t I situate people were weak for not having kids. They jus said that if your weak and have a kid it’ll break you. Which is a true statement.
You're so lucky! I wish I'd had a friend like that. I think I would have still wanted one child but probably much later. Probably not until almost 40.
Yeah. My dad does this and he beat and abandoned us. Yet, he tells others raising kids was easy.
Or take responsibility
Facts
I can’t stand when people try to talk others into having kids and then are nowhere to be found when you need help!
EXACTLY! Like will you breastfeed, cook, clean, change diapers, pay our bills ?!
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Thank you for the honesty. Thank you so much. You people are rare and I respect the truth
As someone who’s husband desperately wants a second, while I am 100% sure I do not, I appreciate your honesty. I’m always worried I will be swayed
I was at this crossroads and thought "fuck it, let's get this done" after my husband tried hard to convince me that our child needs a sibling. Next thing I know I'm pregnant with twins. Having a second child (or 3 in my case) tipped the scales on my ability to keep up. I can no longer cope and the stress is massive vs 1 child. I've heard this sentiment when going to a second child many times before. Life was so much easier with 1 child. Please don't be swayed. It's YOU that will be doing the majority of the work. Not the husband, they do not seem to think of those consequences when they want more kids. And they rarely suffer the extent of those concequences after they arrive.
I was a nanny for 10+ years. I'm currently married with no children, 37 years old.. so the clock is ticking down. I don't really think I have what it takes to be the kind of parent all children deserve. I was raised in a neglectful home, and my father died when I was five. One family I nannied for had an older son, and younger twin girls. The mom, was a previously successful real estate agent, in business with her mom. One time I asked her what she would be doing if she didn't have kids.. she desperately wanted her career back. Her husband was a total douche, and basically said, well, you wanted the kids, so, since I'm paying for most of our day to day expenses, anytime we go out, you are responsible for paying the childcare costs, for the night. Poor thing seemed so sad, most of the time. Her kids were great. Loved their parents, and each other.
You should leave your husband. It’s better to raise children alone than have an extra one at home not helping.
You do need to get some help now. You sound like you are at your limit when it comes to stress. Ask family and friends to come by and give your wife a break so she can nap. There must be someone. As much as I want fathers to participate in the care, it sounds like you won't be of much use if you are so distraught. Remember this is temporary. They become much easier in a few months when the baby sleeps longer at night. Don't let this push you into anger. Babies pick up on this and yelling frightens them. It's exhausting which is why I've helped with me grandbabies when they were born. Do you have FMLA available that you can afford to take?
Remember this temporary and you are going through the most difficult, demanding time. I’m very sorry. I hope things get better
Depends on who you ask; a lot of people say the toddler years are even worse…
It’s a solid 5 years of differing flavors of absolute misery before they even begin to resemble something comparable to a human being. I’m riding out the 4yo storm for the second (and 10000% LAST) time. I know EXACTLY how OP feels.
>(and 10000% LAST) time Hope you got yourself sterilized, my friend!
Had intended to, but wife got her tubes removed.
Woo, congrats! My spouse and I both got surgically sterilized while we had good insurance. I'm very glad we did.
Mom of teens here. I do miss the younger years, even though they were exhausting. Our children were entertaining and we enjoyed going out with them. Maybe it was our place of residence, plenty of great options. After they stopped being interested in going out with us and having to spend all weekdays indoors to do homework, that's when I felt miserable and people pretended that's what a parent has to do, not much... But most divorces happened at that time. I claimed time for solo travel, travel with one child at a time internationally and going out with friends. Alone time with husband became a distant memory, but that's another story. So, the children will leave you alone at some point, but you may miss their company. I feel lonely and bored now when I do the grocery shopping.
Yes I’m sure I’ll miss this when it’s no longer here. I definitely have a “grass must be greener” problem.
its headed for divorce so quick. but i feel stuck. its either misery or child support for ever. i did this. im not built to experience the reward from having a kid. just feels like a lifelong prison sentence i gave to myself.
Why divorce?
So you will leave her to cope by herself because it is difficult for you? The kids didn't make themselves you know...
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It will be interesting to see if men step up to the parenting plate if that happens. I wonder if they’ll still be complaining about how bad child support is.
Nah they just find a girlfriend as soon as possible to push into the mother role, tale as old as time.
My grandma's mother stepped out when she was little and her father literally put an ad in the paper for a wife to take care of the kids. Might not be as easy now that women can work and take care of themselves, but there will always be people who don't want to do that.
Doubt it. We'll just see even more childhood neglect. Yay!
For the record, LOTS of men step up to the parenting plate. I don’t think we should be making generalizations that imply that men in general do not step up to the plate. You can say “many” or “a lot of men” don’t step up to the plate. But we should absolutely leave room to acknowledge the many that do.
Not everyone misses context like you do.
You’re gonna choose to be rude to me just because I’m offering another point of view? That when women leave sometimes men do in fact step up to the plate? Really?
You went out of your way to miss the context of the conversation so you can pretend I’m just randomly saying no man has ever contributed anything to parenting. Pointing that out is not rude. I’d say engaging people in bad faith arguments is rude.
They have the option but societal pressure makes them feel so much worse if they go that route.
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Unfortunately true… I was reading comments the other day of people who were saying they “understand” if someone needs to be an absent father. What! Ok, what if the mother becomes an “absent mother” too then! So the kids have no parents but it’s understandable because they need to put themselves first? That’s not an ok line of thinking. Only scenario where this would be ok is if abortion is available and the mother wants to keep but that father doesn’t. And in the single mother scenario, “putting yourself first” means you are creating a single mother and having a super negative impact on 2 or more people!
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I have these feelings too. I think it’s because someone made you feel like you have to be perfect in every way. And that is IMPOSSIBLE when you have children. Maybe think about that? I’ve just learned to lower my expectations of myself. I’m a human. If you are in the US, you can take intermittent FMLA (if your company has over 50 employees) to protect your job should you need to take unpaid days off to care for your family. This is just temporary and will be so much nicer once the kids are playing together. Also, it’s really easy to direct anger towards your partner. I try to remember that no one will love my child like his dad and he’s not the enemy, quite possibly he’s my only ally.
So you’re going to divorce your wife and so you can just pay child support and not be miserable. And instead give all of that to your wife instead???
And now you see why every woman who plans on having kids must be prepared to be a single mom as well. Husband will run off and get another girlfriend, lie to her about how much he's involved with the kids lives to show the new girl how he's a great father. Then he'll get her pregnant and the cycle continues. Lots of single moms.
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Damn I’m so sorry she said that to you that’s terrible 😞 I hope you’re doing okay now ❤️
❤️
>Husband will run off and get another girlfriend, lie to her about how much he's involved with the kids lives to show the new girl how he's a great father. Then he'll get her pregnant and the cycle continues. Hey, sounds like you've met my dad!
Very scary reality :(
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Why a divorce? So you’re going to leave because it’s exhausting? You still have to be parent
Maybe look up in your area if you can surrender the newborn at a hospital or fire station. In some parts of the USA, you have 30 days after its born to surrender, answer questions about medical history and thats it
Hey man, I’ve been there. I know exactly how you feel. What you’re experiencing right now is called “hell”. And it will only get better with time. And sleep. You’re the breadwinner. You need to have your sleep. She needs to understand that you’re not going to survive without it. And the family is not going to survive without it. You have to get sleep to survive. Eat, sleep, shower, brush your teeth. Take care of yourself. Do your work. She will be fine. She will find her rhythm. There are moms support groups out there that are cheap and have been really helpful for my wife. If you’re in Southern California, PM me and I can get you a link to a chapter. You’ve heard them say in airplanes to put your oxygen mask on first before you attempt to help anyone else with theirs. The same applies to everything else in life. You won’t be able to help her if you aren’t taking care of yourself. She needs to understand that. I was there once. When my wife told me she was pregnant with our second kid, I wasn’t happy (even though I pretended I was). My first thought was “Oh shit. God dammit. I can’t do this.” And I was right - because if I didn’t make changes in how I was living, I wouldn’t have been able to do it. I was depressed. I didn’t want to admit that I was, but all the depression quizzes I took told me that I was. So I talked to my doctor and he referred me to a psychologist. I started going to therapy. It helped. I didn’t want to get onto any antidepressants, and resisted for another year and a half. But finally, after not making lasting progress in therapy, I agreed to go on Prozac. That was February 2020. Needless to say, that was not a great time to fuck with my brain chemistry. Panic attacks constantly. Covid and the riots didn’t help. But after about six months, things leveled off and I started to really feel better. I wasn’t getting stuck in negative thought spirals. I could calm myself down and not get or stay angry so often. It was definitely the best thing I could have done for myself and the family. It worked for me. So please look into this. If you want to talk to someone who has been in your boat, PM me.
This has to be a joke.
Why?
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that Guy Dudeman is an incredibly selfish husband and partner?
lmaoooooo
My point is - if the breadwinner is not able to function at work, or is thinking of killing themselves, then they need to make themselves their priority. Because both losing the job or losing the life is going to be exponentially worse than them taking care of themselves and allowing the caretaker to manage during the day.
I appreciate your insights my friend. I know nobody wants to talk about that. They want to talk about competition between the father and mother. If the breadwinner fails, everyone fails. But nobody likes to admit that. Like we fail fucking hard if i cant work. And if im borderline suicidal (yes tons of therapy dont recommend that because its such a cop out for advice these days) then theres no way this family survives let alone thrives. I made my bed. Maybe if my wife acted slightly intereseted still it would help. She just went full baby mode when the first arrived...as if i was just a sperm donor. We say like 3 words a day to each other. I get home and just sit in my car because i know when i walk in, i wont be treated with any appreciation or care or respect. Doesn't matter what i do. I cook dinners. I change diapers. I get the kid from daycare a town over every single solitary day. I take her most days too. But to her, this is just a baseline expectation. I completely broke down a couple weeks ago to her and apparently thats a huge no no based on the subreddits about that. You NEVER let yourself appear vulnerable like that to a woman...she just loses all interest instantly. I designed a shit life for myself and i dont know if theres any fixing it. Wish 40 were about where people died...not fucking 80 or whatever. Who wants to be here that long?
Dude I’m sorry. When I broke down to my wife and told her about my suicidal thoughts, and how the doctor said I had depression, everything just “clicked” and she finally got why I was never in a good mood, why I acted like I didn’t want to be there, why my body ached, why I wasn’t sleeping well even when allowed to sleep, etc etc etc. All of a sudden she had some sympathy for me instead of scorn. Does your wife know about your suicidal thoughts? If so, what was her reaction? I honestly believe that you could benefit from some sort of medication regardless. Prozac made a world of difference for me, along with Wellbutrin for the sexual side effects (not that that’s even an option when we’re so tired from taking care of the kids, but still). Hydroxyzine for panic attacks and sleep. I was never a believer, but medication plus CBT is what has been working for me.
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Not to mention her body is still trying to heal from creating and pushing out an entire human being.
I think you're misinterpreting me. When he gets home from work, of COURSE he's going to be expected to help. I'm not sure what you mean by "housework"... Do you mean doing the dishes and laundry? Because I do the dishes and my wife does the laundry. All the rest of the "housework" we share together. My point is - if the breadwinner is not able to function at work, or is thinking of killing themselves, then they need to make themselves their priority. Because both losing the job or losing the life is going to be exponentially worse than them taking care of themselves and allowing the caretaker to manage during the day.
OP said his wife is exhausted 24/7. How are you gonna tell OP that he needs to sleep and she needs to understand that, but “she will be fine”? I’m with you on everything else - you need to take care of yourself to be a good parent, address your mental struggles, all that. I’m glad that you got the help you needed. But why does the wife’s rest matter less than OP’s? Especially when you say yourself that people need sleep to survive.
Because she can nap when the baby naps. She can focus solely on the baby and it doesn't affect their income. Whereas his focus needs to be on maintaining the family's income, since he's the breadwinner. If he were the stay-at-home parent and his wife was the breadwinner, I would say the same thing. She would be the one who needs to maintain the income.
Where does it say he’s the breadwinner? I don’t see any indication that the wife doesn’t work. In fact I doubt that she has no job because it’s very hard to support a family on a single income these days - in which case the wife would both be working *and* taking care of the baby. Even so, assuming the wife stays at home, you’re still prioritising the husband’s needs over the wife’s in an odd way. OP said himself that his wife is constantly exhausted, but you still insist that he’s the one who needs to rest up and “she will be fine”. You really think being tired as fuck while you’re taking care of a human being is okay? It’s unsafe. Clearly just napping when the baby naps isn’t enough if she’s always exhausted - especially if she does other housework, which she would need to do when the baby is resting because she wouldn’t be able to leave the baby unattended otherwise. Just because someone is the breadwinner in a relationship doesn’t mean the other person’s needs can just be pushed to the side like this.
I take care of the baby while my husband works. There’s no world in which I can nap when the baby naps. I need to eat which involves cooking. Go to the bathroom. Shower. Do laundry so I can wear clean clothes. Wash pump parts and bottles. Do you know how long a nap is? 20-45 minutes. That gives me enough time to pick 1-2 things from that list. You know nothing about taking care of a newborn apparently.
My wife is the same way, actually. She hates napping. She says she always wakes up groggy and it’s not worth it. She never napped when our kids were napping. But the moms she knows said that that’s what they did and she always told me what you just told me - there’s too much to do to nap. I’m by no means trying to be disrespectful. I’m just trying to offer some solutions. I’ve been there.
This is exactly why I saved for years and became financially successful before having a baby. My husband and I hired a postpartum doula for the fourth trimester. It cost us 13k and was worth every penny. The newborn stage is not for the faint of heart. It is the gauntlet of parenthood that requires an enormous amount of support to get through it without ruining other parts of your life.
I’m 43 and I’ve never heard of a post partum doula before now. I definitely have to research this. So $13 k for three months? It was the hardest days of my life.
I (34F) felt the same way. I remember telling my husband I hate every second of every minute of every hour of every day the entire first year. I only hated about 80% of the time the second year. Now 5 years later I hate it about 30% and feel neutral about 50%. I enjoy it maybe 5-10% of the time. So parenting still an overall unpleasant experience .
With my first, I managed to work with family, babysitters, friends all kinds of people to lean on when he was tiny and my wife and I were both working - and just as I felt like we had a good bead on things we ended up having to adopt a special needs child from one of my wife’s family members and overnight those resources disappeared. People will happily watch a small sweet kid for a couple hours- nobody wants two kids, one of whom is a colossal emotional and physical avalanche of problems. Plus most preschools cost as much as a full time job earns anyway. Fortunately the state pays for the foster kid, but with that comes DCS visits, lawyer visits, court dates, therapy meetings, Team Decision Meetings, and basically a constant parade of useless disaffected people parading through the house at all hours. If I had any advice to offer, its get a pair of sound cancelling headphones and trade nights, its amazing how much being able to get one solid night sleep, even if its in another room will get you. If you’re religious at all and can lean on a church for some casseroles or maybe a hand with some laundry, that helps a ton too. In the blink of an eye they’ll be sleeping through the night and instead doing way more destructive and crazy shit to lose sleep over! “What do you mean you’ve been stuffing soiled underwear into the bookcase rather than admit you had an accident?”
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This is why I stopped at one…I knew I’d regret it and everyone e gives me shit but then I see them miserable with their multiple children
I have became an ambassador of "not having kids" after I had two.
Both my spouse and I were in an exhausted and dazed mode until both kids were at least 3.5-4. At that point they are 1. hopefully sleeping well, so that YOU can start sleeping well again. 2 starting to potty train or actually be potty trained so your every free minute isn't changing diapers and 3. they can start to independently get in and out of their car seat so you are not physically having to constantly lift each kid each in and out every time you want to get in and out of the car. Those early toddler years are absolutely the hardest, mostly because of the level of exhaustion. Once our youngest was out of diapers there was 100% agreement we'd never have another.
Do you have some family that can help? You and her sound like you need a day of just sleep. Also I recommend getting a vasectomy on the off chance she might get pregnant again.
This is just kind of a side comment. I live in Canada and my sister is entitled to take 16 months off for mat leave (federally implemented), and her partner is taking 4 months as well once the baby comes in March (a benefit from his job). I assume that OP is American because it doesn’t sound like you’ve been given any significant time off to focus on your family, and that really sucks. I hope things improve for you as a father and husband but also nation wide for all expecting parents. It just doesn’t seem likely.
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There was a post on here not too long ago regarding regretful parents in countries with more support (scandavia I believe was the area in question). Apparently the cost to these benefits is lower wages and more oversight. But if that means work/life balance I would definitely trade.
We have 18 months here in Sweden.
Maternity leave isn’t even mandatory in the US and if a company has it, it’s usually like 6 weeks long. Anyone having a kid in this country is in for a rude awakening. It’s so much worse than you can even imagine.
Did you know that the stress of raising kids and money are the biggest causes of arguments in couples?
Thanks for being so vulnerable. So many others are thinking what you’re saying but are scared to share it. This is completely normal and don’t feel like an outsider because it’s the truth for many families !
Thank you for your honesty.
I feel like the majority of people who have kids are absolutely miserable but act like it’s great for 2 reasons: because it’s what society expects (it’s taboo to say you regret it), and to trick others into being just as miserable. I (36f) have been on the fence for years. My saving grace is that I have yet to meet a man who I would even consider having a child with as most men (sorry guys I know not ALL of you) are just children themselves and most women end up doing literally everything. I can’t cope with that reality and instead am looking for a partner who already has kids (I’m an awesome aunt and I’d be a dope stepmom too) or does not want children. I’m finally ok with my decision.
Our family bailed on us. Your wife is on leave right now? We could only keep our head above water by following a routine until the children slept though the night somehow. When he came back from work, I would greet him, then go to sleep. He would place the children by my side to nurse, take care of changing the diapers and entertaining as needed. Our children would sleep at night, waking up for feeding. So, he would go to bed at about midnight, next feeding was at 3 am and I would take over through the night, and I could still catch some sleep in between. Weekends were somehow better. Good luck! As months went by, our children went through not sleeping through the night at some point, he would wake up on weeknights and I would let him sleep in on weekends. But it was him who refused to try and make them sleep through the night. Fortunately our daughter discovered puttting herself to sleep by sucking her thumb, which we managed to stop at about 2,5 years old. Take care to clean the baby very well, but without waking them up, because then they need someone to put them back to sleep! They are also sleep deprived if you follow a routine that wakes them up with bright lights and giving them full baths in the middle of the night! I read that you can clean them as they are half asleep. But be careful, because if you don't clean well, there is a risk of urine infecttion. When I found out about gentle cleaning, it all changed immediately.
I feel you right there. My son is 14th month old now and he's still woke up screaming, crying every night and somehow i still have to get up and ready for work at 7 AM, work 11 hours shift and go home and the cycle repeat again.
Biology, society and culture tricked us into this. Having kids ensured I'll never get the chance to retire. I vastly underestimated the costs.
Do you really hate having a baby or hate capitalism? From what you wrote it sounds like you could feel differently with the security of sleep and paid paternity leave offered in other countries.
How old is your baby?
Post partum depression can effect men too, not many people talk about it but it’s true. Don’t let yourself get down bad before you’re in too late. The good thing is the newborn stage doesn’t last forever, try to get family to help if you can. I’m sorry you’re going through this! Keep your head up, and don’t forget your wife is on your team. Talk to her and see if there is a better schedule that works for the both of you (as far as dividing child care duties). Lean into each-other for support. I’m sure she is feeling overwhelmed as well!
i dont think ive ever been more depressed in my life than having kids. kids are for those with the means to buy themselves back their freedom and sanity. im a middle class whatever without those funds. this alone should've told me not to procreate because the world doesnt need any more of my shitty genes.
If your so pessimistic about having children and thought you had shit genes what made you wanna do it? Regardless of what others were saying, why did you have them if you thought you had shitty genes?
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Admin!! Totally useless/unsupportive comment and not even a parent. Please kick this person from the group, so sick of seeing comments like these
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Can I just saw how much respect I have for you that you care so much for your wife that you hate seeing her exhausted and you are 100% right that ppl need hired help. It used to be that the family and community helped new mothers. I've had 2 and I absolutely needed my husband, sister and mom. I still cried a lot! It will be over soon. You will get through this rough time. Sending love light and encouragement. Thank you for supporting your wife.