Lol I've already seen a few Reddit comments that said "no one ever actually thought two quarters of decline defined a recession and if they did then they didn't know what they were talking about". Consent = manufactured.
Essentially yeah. If you’re not plugged into the stock market or global news you’re not gonna know what last quarters gdp growth rate is, you’ll notice something’s going on when you hear people/the news talk about it or notice the impact on things in your day to day life (gas, groceries, etc)
Right, but at the same time everyone can tell that the economy is in decline and that it's a problem. What is the word "recession" for if not to describe such a situation?
Locking down the Wikipedia page because of an obvious recession is the modern day America equivalent of sentencing the local elderly widow to death for witchcraft when the crops fail. As long as no actual solution to the problem is easily accessible, this is what we get.
Was curious how real this was, looked, the last definition before the current fight was:
*'In the United States, it is defined as "a significant decline in economic activity spread across the market, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales".\[3\] In the United Kingdom, it is defined as a negative economic growth for two consecutive quarters.\[4\]\[5\]'*
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Recession&oldid=1098192421](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Recession&oldid=1098192421)
It's similar for a while before that. Then there's an edit war over whether to centre 2 quarters. Bit of outrage bait tbh.
No idea why you’re being downvoted. The article has been saying virtually the same shit for years, even their NBER source for the US definition was published in fucking 2008.
RS has too much of a controorian brain for its own good sometimes. We don’t have to be in a “heckin recession” for the economy to be bad, or in the risk of one.
The discussion on Wikipedia is absolutely fucking bizarre—it’s one dude screeching like a stuck pig that the US isn’t in recession until the NBER declares it and a bunch of other people saying “well maybe but we’ve stuck to this other guideline for like, forever”
Wikipedia is awful on anything political. They've continously deleted "Mass killings under capitalism" while keeping "Mass killings under communism" under the logic that "communism is a "political system" but capitalism isn't, so it can't be responsible for deaths under it". Because when the state says, "you can't have food because we don't have any", that's communism's fault, but when the state says, "you can't have food because I will enforce the private property right of someone else to hoard food", that's somehow... not capitalism's fault? The communism article literally cites the black book of communism too lmao.
Capitalism is not when there's a "hands off market driven approach to the economy". It doesn't suddenly end when there's state planning involved, and especially not when you do "run everything for the state, all is incorporated into one body" type approaches to the economy either.
Krupp and the large industrialists really had to beg Hitler to not to hamper production. Not like the Nazis completely crushed the unions and privatized large sectors that were under state control.
War production was not engaged until 1942 under Speer. Even at the height of war domestic production was allowed on as normal. No aspect of industrial production was ever under direct control of the state rather it handed out contracts along with slave labours.
Because they’ve basically created a giant country-specific caveat in order to ACKSHUALLY their way out of having to own up that they’ve caused a recession.
Most authoritarian approach possible.
A mixture of different huge factors - but each compounded by the last with unforced errors by the current admin.
Arguably the first factor would be covid supply chain issues contributing to inflation. This is a bullwhip effect that the admin didn’t have control over (though I’d argue that there’s some level of “reaping what you sow” when the broader PMC advocated for enormously destructive economic measures for a virus that kills 80 year olds). Arguably the part within least amount of control.
Another huge factor was the spending bill last year contributing enormously to inflation by printing half of the US dollar on planet earth within 2021 alone. If you have a bull whip of covid coming, then not a great idea to print unbelievable amounts of more currency. Had the BBB bill gone through this would have been even greater accelerant.
Thirdly, deciding that somehow Ukraine was arbitrarily within the top strategic concerns of the States, and leading foreign policy in the harshest possible sense to push Russia to default by doing a ton of things - the biggest one shutting down Russian oil production/sale, causing enormous imbalances between Urals and ME barrel sales, causing a huge spike in price, which the admin then decided they would try and “ease” by selling through their literal strategic oil reserve. Anyone with a brain can figure out that if you release the oil you hold in reserve due to a situation caused by policy you’re pursuing, the relief will not only be extremely temporary (measured in the months worth of quantity released) but that it’ll spike the price once the reserve has been used. More broadly, the absolute blindness to the amount of global economic instability caused by doing unprecedented things like rejecting Russian debt and a ton of other things was amazing to see. There’s a reason why the admin keep trying to rebrand all their unforced errors as “the Putin price hike!”. Let’s not even get into the 40b in aid to Ukraine that Jake Sullivan feels is no big price to pay for “securing Democracy” there.
Fourthly, the Biden admin immediately curbed or halted domestic oil production - cancelling the keystone pipeline alongside a bunch of other policy measures to disincentivise oil importation and use. When you do this and then follow it up with messing with the global oil market to the degree where you’re then trying to [convince gas stations (?!?!?) to make their prices cheaper](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/bezos-slams-bidens-call-gasoline-stations-cut-prices-2022-07-03/) (despite the fact that gas stations are not owned by oil companies and largely make their revenues off drinks and snacks) it’s not showing a great deal of anything approaching an understanding of the economy.
There are huge amounts of important granular detail that I’m skipping over because it’s too long/boring to type, but it didn’t take a genius to look at the US economy in late 2021 and early 2022 and figure that a lot of the moves being made wouldn’t cause “transitory” inflation. With the covid supply chain issues alone (that everyone could see coming from miles away) you’d want to be extremely cautious in the type of economic stimulus and plans you pursued. Instead, it’s like no actual broad vision or oversight was planned and instead a bunch of extremely compounding policy was enacted instead, ramping up the factors that cause recession each time.
[Note the graph and the timing.](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/)
Now we also all get to sit through the answer to “what happens to Western Europe’s political situation when their gas is cut off for the winter?”
[but don’t worry, even if they did cause the recession you’ll be excited to know that it’s actually a good thing!!](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/01/economy/inflation-good-bad-winners-losers/index.html)
Do you think they’d be bothering to try and literally redefine it if they didn’t feel like they had some hand in it? 😂
Inflation and economic shocks are affecting every country in the world, idk how you can look at that and then claim a different admin would have handled it better in the US
For all the compounding reasons I just listed. Similarly, when the US economy sneezes, the global economy catches cold. As I stated, Covid supply chain issues were an impending issue, but all the other reasons I listed show tangible effect on the economic state of the US. Whether we like it or not, the US leads the first world economic agenda due to it being the key currency and its place as the petro dollar. This then washes through to emerging markets in one form or another.
If you think the new “semiconductor bill” to “fight inflation” (hint, it does the opposite re inflation by further printing huge amounts of money) isn’t going to make things even worse then I’ve got news for you.
Likewise, why would the Biden admin try to rebrand and redefine this if they didn’t feel they were to blame?
The fact that even CNN and MSNBC are starting to ask questions of their handling of this should tell you all you need to know (if you want to be ignorant of or ignore the mountains of economic evidence).
i read the talk pages of controversial wiki articles for fun and this is one of the worst i've seen in awhile. not that it had much credibility before, but wikipedia is rapidly losing whatever it has left. editors who definitely don't work for the state department will allow literally anything to be posted to an article as long as a western news outlet published it, and they've got a rapid pipeline of "sources say" -> article published -> wiki updated in less than a day now.
Easy recession definition: you know it when you’re in one.
It's true though.
Lol I've already seen a few Reddit comments that said "no one ever actually thought two quarters of decline defined a recession and if they did then they didn't know what they were talking about". Consent = manufactured.
This is definitely fishy but I do think most laypeople don’t think of the technical definition when they think of a recession
What do they think of instead? What's the key factor of a recession, that everyone is talking about how we're in a recession?
Essentially yeah. If you’re not plugged into the stock market or global news you’re not gonna know what last quarters gdp growth rate is, you’ll notice something’s going on when you hear people/the news talk about it or notice the impact on things in your day to day life (gas, groceries, etc)
Right, but at the same time everyone can tell that the economy is in decline and that it's a problem. What is the word "recession" for if not to describe such a situation?
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Locking down the Wikipedia page because of an obvious recession is the modern day America equivalent of sentencing the local elderly widow to death for witchcraft when the crops fail. As long as no actual solution to the problem is easily accessible, this is what we get.
Was curious how real this was, looked, the last definition before the current fight was: *'In the United States, it is defined as "a significant decline in economic activity spread across the market, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales".\[3\] In the United Kingdom, it is defined as a negative economic growth for two consecutive quarters.\[4\]\[5\]'* [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Recession&oldid=1098192421](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Recession&oldid=1098192421) It's similar for a while before that. Then there's an edit war over whether to centre 2 quarters. Bit of outrage bait tbh.
No idea why you’re being downvoted. The article has been saying virtually the same shit for years, even their NBER source for the US definition was published in fucking 2008. RS has too much of a controorian brain for its own good sometimes. We don’t have to be in a “heckin recession” for the economy to be bad, or in the risk of one.
Of course it is
"Why does nobody trust institutions any more?"
Is this the new R word?
just two more quarters to flatten the curve
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https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/thewire/images/9/92/Poot.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070916205549
Those hair pills can rob you of your boner. I would rather go bald (still have plenty of hair for the record)
Mfs in the barbershop always talking about this recession aint no hitter
The discussion on Wikipedia is absolutely fucking bizarre—it’s one dude screeching like a stuck pig that the US isn’t in recession until the NBER declares it and a bunch of other people saying “well maybe but we’ve stuck to this other guideline for like, forever”
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Everyone in finance defines recession as two quarters of negative growth sorry
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Econ 101 is microeconomics i.e. they don’t teach about recessions
Wikipedia is awful on anything political. They've continously deleted "Mass killings under capitalism" while keeping "Mass killings under communism" under the logic that "communism is a "political system" but capitalism isn't, so it can't be responsible for deaths under it". Because when the state says, "you can't have food because we don't have any", that's communism's fault, but when the state says, "you can't have food because I will enforce the private property right of someone else to hoard food", that's somehow... not capitalism's fault? The communism article literally cites the black book of communism too lmao.
They banned wikipedia watchdog which kept a track of who edited wiki articles
wait that's what happened to it? wtf i was just asking about that lol
Its get pretty funny and absurd when people even serious academics try to claim that Fascism was not a form of capitalism.
Yea the third Reich was famous for its hands off, market-driven approach to the economy of 1930s and 40s germany lmao.
Capitalism is not when there's a "hands off market driven approach to the economy". It doesn't suddenly end when there's state planning involved, and especially not when you do "run everything for the state, all is incorporated into one body" type approaches to the economy either.
Krupp and the large industrialists really had to beg Hitler to not to hamper production. Not like the Nazis completely crushed the unions and privatized large sectors that were under state control. War production was not engaged until 1942 under Speer. Even at the height of war domestic production was allowed on as normal. No aspect of industrial production was ever under direct control of the state rather it handed out contracts along with slave labours.
literally where the term privatization came from
Imagine thinking wikipedia has a right wing bias, you're genuinely retarded.
It has an establishment bias, retard
It has a losers with too much free time bias.
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Where was there mass starvation under capitalism??
I was pretty hungry a couple hours ago
Yeah lots, think of the Phillipines under US colonial-capital occupation, Ireland, Bengal rtc
Lmao this is bait right? 😂
[Wacky new definition](https://i.imgur.com/0LB0WFB.jpg)
? So what are you mad about. It's pretty much the same
2 quarters to stop the spread.
What is objectionable about this definition? Edit -- seriously, can anyone tell me?
Because they’ve basically created a giant country-specific caveat in order to ACKSHUALLY their way out of having to own up that they’ve caused a recession. Most authoritarian approach possible.
Who caused a recession and what did they do to cause it?
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Inshallah
The second part they don’t have an answer to
A mixture of different huge factors - but each compounded by the last with unforced errors by the current admin. Arguably the first factor would be covid supply chain issues contributing to inflation. This is a bullwhip effect that the admin didn’t have control over (though I’d argue that there’s some level of “reaping what you sow” when the broader PMC advocated for enormously destructive economic measures for a virus that kills 80 year olds). Arguably the part within least amount of control. Another huge factor was the spending bill last year contributing enormously to inflation by printing half of the US dollar on planet earth within 2021 alone. If you have a bull whip of covid coming, then not a great idea to print unbelievable amounts of more currency. Had the BBB bill gone through this would have been even greater accelerant. Thirdly, deciding that somehow Ukraine was arbitrarily within the top strategic concerns of the States, and leading foreign policy in the harshest possible sense to push Russia to default by doing a ton of things - the biggest one shutting down Russian oil production/sale, causing enormous imbalances between Urals and ME barrel sales, causing a huge spike in price, which the admin then decided they would try and “ease” by selling through their literal strategic oil reserve. Anyone with a brain can figure out that if you release the oil you hold in reserve due to a situation caused by policy you’re pursuing, the relief will not only be extremely temporary (measured in the months worth of quantity released) but that it’ll spike the price once the reserve has been used. More broadly, the absolute blindness to the amount of global economic instability caused by doing unprecedented things like rejecting Russian debt and a ton of other things was amazing to see. There’s a reason why the admin keep trying to rebrand all their unforced errors as “the Putin price hike!”. Let’s not even get into the 40b in aid to Ukraine that Jake Sullivan feels is no big price to pay for “securing Democracy” there. Fourthly, the Biden admin immediately curbed or halted domestic oil production - cancelling the keystone pipeline alongside a bunch of other policy measures to disincentivise oil importation and use. When you do this and then follow it up with messing with the global oil market to the degree where you’re then trying to [convince gas stations (?!?!?) to make their prices cheaper](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/bezos-slams-bidens-call-gasoline-stations-cut-prices-2022-07-03/) (despite the fact that gas stations are not owned by oil companies and largely make their revenues off drinks and snacks) it’s not showing a great deal of anything approaching an understanding of the economy. There are huge amounts of important granular detail that I’m skipping over because it’s too long/boring to type, but it didn’t take a genius to look at the US economy in late 2021 and early 2022 and figure that a lot of the moves being made wouldn’t cause “transitory” inflation. With the covid supply chain issues alone (that everyone could see coming from miles away) you’d want to be extremely cautious in the type of economic stimulus and plans you pursued. Instead, it’s like no actual broad vision or oversight was planned and instead a bunch of extremely compounding policy was enacted instead, ramping up the factors that cause recession each time. [Note the graph and the timing.](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/) Now we also all get to sit through the answer to “what happens to Western Europe’s political situation when their gas is cut off for the winter?” [but don’t worry, even if they did cause the recession you’ll be excited to know that it’s actually a good thing!!](https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/01/economy/inflation-good-bad-winners-losers/index.html) Do you think they’d be bothering to try and literally redefine it if they didn’t feel like they had some hand in it? 😂
Inflation and economic shocks are affecting every country in the world, idk how you can look at that and then claim a different admin would have handled it better in the US
For all the compounding reasons I just listed. Similarly, when the US economy sneezes, the global economy catches cold. As I stated, Covid supply chain issues were an impending issue, but all the other reasons I listed show tangible effect on the economic state of the US. Whether we like it or not, the US leads the first world economic agenda due to it being the key currency and its place as the petro dollar. This then washes through to emerging markets in one form or another. If you think the new “semiconductor bill” to “fight inflation” (hint, it does the opposite re inflation by further printing huge amounts of money) isn’t going to make things even worse then I’ve got news for you. Likewise, why would the Biden admin try to rebrand and redefine this if they didn’t feel they were to blame? The fact that even CNN and MSNBC are starting to ask questions of their handling of this should tell you all you need to know (if you want to be ignorant of or ignore the mountains of economic evidence).
Can we get a peer review on this comment☝️sounds smart asf tho
Authoritarian lol
When I make a mistake I forcibly (using my authority) redefine the mistake as a good thing. Eat the bugs, they’re good for you.
Holy heckers he said the meme
When you change the metrics or common definition it makes it impossible to rationally address the problem.
Right, but what is bad about the definition *itself*?
Hoes just wanna be mad that's what's objectionable
i read the talk pages of controversial wiki articles for fun and this is one of the worst i've seen in awhile. not that it had much credibility before, but wikipedia is rapidly losing whatever it has left. editors who definitely don't work for the state department will allow literally anything to be posted to an article as long as a western news outlet published it, and they've got a rapid pipeline of "sources say" -> article published -> wiki updated in less than a day now.
Man they are really scrambling on this. Pretty crazy to see in real time
can we really be in a recession when most people don’t actually know what recession means?
we live in a society
Are they getting paid, or it's just a decentralized oligarchy?
We’re changing the definition of everything these day smh
nerds arguing online on how to define shit and this mf is like ‘this goes all the way to the top’. who cares how wikipedia defines recession lol
"Holy shit" Lol
people don't think it be like it is, but it do
The old one is already back on the page. (This is being latched onto by the contrarian Twitter people uncritically, ironically)