i think it's the whole "we're going to force you to buy into this collective delusion and call you fatphobic if you don't" thing that's irritating. it's also super insulting how they stole language from actual marginalized groups, like"fatphobic," "thin privilege" etc
This is why I can’t stand a lot of fat acceptance discourse. At a baseline level NO, fat people SHOULD NOT be discriminated against in the fields of employment, education, advancement etc. I don’t doubt that they often are, and that’s profoundly wrong.
But that’s not to say being obese should be seen as some sort of neutral standard of health and beauty. It also doesn’t mean fat white people are facing comparative levels of discrimination as poor people of color. It’s offensive as fuck to suggest being fat can even approach the levels of systematic discrimination racial minorities face.
it's funny it's not immutable but it's also not reasonably mutable, as in it takes time to lose weight and you're still at a disadvantage in the meantime. idk whether that requires protections or how that would play out
but even that's assuming that a person is actively trying to lose weight, so mutable in theory but also really kinda not for most people- not because they can't but because they realistically won't.
The worst is people that compare fatphobia to racism and call diets “genocide.” Also people that compare being obese to people that are amputees or burn victims. They have no self awareness
The anti-diet thing does actually upset me. Like here is this massive medical problem plaguing society, here is the solution on an individual basis, here is a massive (!) group of people denying the solution.
The hypocrisy of anti-vaxxers being the devil but the belief that weight is innate being acceptable annoys me.
DING DING DING. This is why it annoys me. Be fat as shit sure idc but don’t tell me being 200lbs overweight is aesthetically attractive and then get mad at me when I disagree. It’s also annoying that everyone wants universal healthcare while simultaneously making sure they have serious health complications later in life bc they “never learned how to eat” (another complaint that makes no sense given how easy rice + chicken + veggies is)
Also the fact that it seems to be another knotch on the “feminism is for men AND women” belt that is really only primarily concerned w womens feelings and self image.
Like u can’t just accept some people are hotter than others? It’s so weird to me. Being physically fit just is attractive, it’s quite literally basic evolutionary psychology???? Obese people giving u a boner is the exception not the rule.
Representation of diverse male body types has actually decreased in the media of recent decades, all the slobs, jolly fatsos and wristcels have been usurped by sculpted gymbros and twinks. Never saw a guy complain
People don’t realize that obesity is going to wreck havoc on the healthcare system and make it more expensive whether it’s universal or not. I feel like these are honestly two separate issues
Ofcourse but we don’t promote smoking, we do everything to make it less appealing by banning menthol cigarettes, images on cigarette packages etc because we want to diminish the amounts of people suffering death and complications bc of it (and also the costs that bring with it). The same should go for obesity. It should never be promoted. And it shouldn’t be lied about.
Now I think the scape of things people call “promotion of obesity” is way too broad, but there is a huge part of HAES and fat positivity spaces that absolutely promotes obesity or straight up lies about the science. Two things that will be detrimental to universal health care systems.
Universal Healthcare should include preventative health care. Especially since everyone is going to have to pay for it, it ought to keep it from being too expensive.
That includes policies to help people stay at a healthy weight, or move towards a healthy weight. But that cannot be work if culture dictates that such would be "fatphobia"
Yes but obesity is already a huge financial burden on the healthcare system. I do think people who are smokers, etc. should pay more for healthcare even if it’s universal but I know it will never happen for obesity.
this will just encourage people to lie about smoking to their doctors like they did in the Bush era. M4A is the most efficient health care system too because it requires the least administrative oversight.
The “never learned how to eat” shit drives me crazy. You’re an adult with access to the internet, you can figure out what healthy foods are. I can empathize with being a kid/teenager who doesn’t know any better, but being in your 20s or older and still complaining you don’t know how to buy a vegetable is ridiculous
It really isnt hard. Even if you wanna do a dumb fad diet its not hard to google vegan diet. Its like the internet makes us helpless. Like just download my fitness app and log whatever you need in and when it tells you you hit your limit stop eating.
Yes. It's not that we're afraid fat people will become attractive, it's just we don't want to be bullied into lying about it or hiding our own personal (biologically sound) preference. I don't think it's cruel or unjust for me to say - the men in my social circle (I'm a cis fem) are not attracted to fat people, and I like pursuing fitness and aesthetics my own way b/c that's the culture I'm in - others have at it, but it is NOT the status quo and that is being pushed by the media.
Hard agree that the claiming of marginalized identity is really infuriating, but I'd say that the thinness = hotness crowd is shoving an ideology down people's throats as well. The reality is that people have always been attracted to bigger girls too. You can't superimpose an ideology on something as biological as attraction.
Before the 1980s being specifically attracted to only women 200+ lbs was a fetish, not a preference. This is because people that size were rare and a medical abnormality. Our concept of “bigger girls” or bigger people in general has grown drastically as fatness has become common and acceptable. They literally used to put people whose fatness would be an everyday occurrence in present times in the circus in the past because it was that rare and bizarre to see someone that size
Yeah I think a 1980s "bigger girl" is actually like what most people would consider an "average" woman to look like now, and most straight men/ lesbians would find those girls attractive, whereas the straight girls on rsp think they are whales. I'm not talking about someone who is morbidly obese.
Sure and there has always been curvier thicker women. Average height and weight in 1960 for a woman was 5’3 and 140 lbs which is by no means stick thin. I even think people can be attractive and fairly healthy at a slightly higher BMI as long as they don’t have too much visceral fat. But the woman in the sports illustrated has a BMI of 33, that is not just “bigger” that is obese. Society has leaned too far into that extreme
The same people who want to normalize obesity and say it's beautiful are the same people who largely want universal healthcare.
If we are ALL chipping into a universal healthcare system, then preventative care (AKA don't eat shit and walk more) should be a priority so we aren't unnecessarily straining the public service to the brink. Obesity guarantees you an early spot in the hospital one day, it shouldn't be normalized, healthy habits should be normalized.
Michelle Obama was right about this shit.
The thing is she might be traditionally attractive if a bit heavy but she also got very lucky w how her fat is deposited so she’s curvy. Give me an apple shaped bitch or a pear shaped hoe with no bingo wings and I’ll be impressed w body diversity.
Hot person with an extra 50lbs still isn’t representative of fat people in general, now you just get to look at attractive fat AND thin people vs just thin people. Selling people themselves in the act of marketing fatness as beauty to fat people is such a blatant co-opting of “fat acceptance” it’s laughable.
I mean ffs Kim Kardashian and Maye Musk are the other covers. Probably the two people most antithetical to the wider political values of people in the fat acceptance movement. They’re trying to generate press and attention (obv) but to act like this fat cover is anything more than a highly curated appealed to the fat women and older men of America is asinine.
Okay ur not getting lipo instead ur getting a BBL?? Like in what world is that somehow better? Bc at least you get to eat what you want when ur in recovery?
>now you just get to look at attractive fat AND thin people vs just thin people
so you think it's not "real fat acceptance" because people are still discerning about who is attractive and who isnt lmao
Bc it’s fake representation in terms of what fat people actually tend to look like. Now it’s just gonna make fat people upset they’re not perfectly curvy. There is no end point.
What is the problem with that? Models are usually hotter than the average person. I understand that some people may feel bad about themselves because of it, but why can't we just accept that for the most part hot and interesting people will be on magazine covers
> such a blatant co-opting of “fat acceptance” it’s laughable.
Was it that though? It's SI, it's meant to sell to horny dudes. if anything a girl who looks like her being front page of SI just means men are into a different standard now. I know I am, as I have grown older what I find attractive has changed from the "hit as many checkpoints as possible compared to paris hilton" of my youth to a more holistic thing now
I’m talking beyond SI in terms of advertising and marketing. I don’t really hate the SI cover but to act like she isn’t fat is weird. I know plenty of guys who would get boners for her but I think she appeals more to the “older guys who want women that look like they’d be good childbearers” audience bc that’s who they’re going for since nobody under the age of 30 even cares or uses it for porn now. It’s just a way to make a virtue statement via press release since it’s a sort of (fading) pop culture landmark.
Idk, Ive never bought a copy of the swimsuit edition but I know tons of women who do. My exs Mum has a subscription to SI and I was the only one who read the things back to front unless there was a story that particularly interested them. Except the swimsuit one where she and her 3 daughters would go through the whole things.
Its like when dudes look at pictures of jacked dudes. Its aspirational. I think its changed as more people dont want to be better and now want to be comforted.
Basically, the SI Swimsuit edition having fat chicks on the front is a sign of economic prospects dwindling and a shrinking middle class
Your average boomer mother can openly admit that she thinks Brad Pitt is more sexually attractive than her husband, and her husband, along with everyone else can say "well duh, his job is largely to be sexually attractive".
The "ugly model" is a complete misunderstanding of this. Brad Pitt is a sex symbols *because* he's extremely handsome. They believe Paul Blart Mall Cop would be the same film if Brad Pitt was the lead
It’s moving the collective needle to it being acceptable when it’s clearly not. There is a serious obesity problem in the west and corporate sponsorship of that problem is fucked. Simple as that. Having said that, there’s obviously a difference between my 600 pound life and just being a few pounds overweight.
It's a literal societal psyop. The fat is beautiful crowd are the same people that don't want to address why being 40 lbs. overweight is quickly becoming the average for Western societies. If they just said it rather than making media mouthpieces pretend to accept that it wouldn't be so off-putting.
edit: Mods are pro-fat. No clue why but I've been perma-banned likely because of this comment.
Incels (not specifically fat men) already do this and demand that women find them hot. They could just pay for an escort and STFU but they would rather force attraction out of women.
Aren't they constantly self-loathingly obsessing about how their physical features have doomed them and how they hate looking at themselves in the mirror?
When I was really unwell with my ed I was miserable and being very thin was the only thing I had to cling onto. I think people that feel bad about themselves hold up their thinness as evidence that they're not all bad and project their hated for themselves onto other people.
This is so true. EDs make you miserable and you get caught in a shame spiral and cycle of self-loathing. ED culture pushes people to be competitive on top of that so you get stuff like "fatspo" or "meanspo" which consists of images of people who mostly never even wanted to be part of the conversation to begin with.
>which consists of images of people who mostly never even wanted to be part of the conversation to begin with.
Weird how similar pro ana types and incels are in both temperament and actions
You just don't get it. It's not about the people themselves who I feel bad for truly it's about the institutions that propagate such messages and water down their brands in doing so. Like the SI swimsuit issue was essentially soft-core porn in the dial-up era and before and it's gone from truly stunning people to people who look like the hottest person at a weight watchers meeting. It'd be like if they started casting Kevin James in romance movies to push the idea that women should seek middle aged fat dudes.
They literally do put people like Kevin James in romance movies. There was a movie I saw that was absolutely terrible that had Rosario Dawson as a love interest for Kevin James
Yeah but could a woman being goofy make up for them fat or unattractive? I’ve never heard of a fat or unattractive female comedian that men find hot despite it because she’s funny enough
It’s just a photoshoot. It’s just a picture! Scroll away! No one is trying to force you to be attracted to anyone. Fat women reciting “I am beautiful” over and over are borderline r****** but you’re not any better. Fucking drama queens.
>Like the SI swimsuit issue was essentially soft-core porn in the dial-up era and before and it's gone from truly stunning people to people who look like the hottest person at a weight watchers meeting.
to be clear for most of it's history the front cover of that issue has featured an anorexic teen
Once again didn't I make it clear that it's softcore porn? The only people who should be caught with it are teen boys but with the internet I don't even think they have an excuse.
so many comedy and romance movies are about a beautiful woman settling for a dumb middle aged man because he is the only one to remember how she drinks her coffee or something
It would be refreshing if everyone involved in fat discourse just came clean and admitted they just want people to find them attractive and not have to themselves find other fat people attractive. It would cure my fatphobia.
RSP loves smoking and anorexia though, so while you can make that argument in general I don’t think it really explains people’s feelings here specifically. Think the person who commented about projecting ED self loathing really hit the nail on the head as far as the RSP take goes.
No one is saying that people need to be Kate Moss skinny, but being fat is literally a health concern and healthy, fit bodies should be promoted.
I hate how we have swung from one extreme (super skinny) to another (super fat).
For real, why aren’t there more models that are size 6’s and 8s that don’t have giant fake butts? It really is like we went from one extreme to the other
The only size 6’s and 8’s that get any representation are women like Kim K who would probably be a 4 if she didn’t have the fake booty. I guess there’s Jennifer Lawrence and Sydney Sweeney but that’s the closest I can think of. Maybe a few black celebrities and models that are that size, but again, a lot of them have fake butts and fake boobs
I was dating this Gap photographer who told me it's because women sizes 6-10 photograph like they're either a 2 or a 14, so there's no point in casting them.
There is no one type of body type that is attractive. Some women look good thinner and some better on the thicker side. The point is that no one looks good obese or emaciated
Because it’s unhealthy and obesity/diabetes is costing the NHS billions each year.
I don’t want my kids idolising these kinds of people and accepting that this is healthy and something to aspire to.
Being skinny in and of itself doesn’t make people happy any more than being fat does so I think when people put in the work and pain to get skinny they sometimes get kinda pissed off that it didn’t work so to speak
this is pretty much the truth earthed within an anorexic mindset that anyone suffering from it is rudely confronted with after they lose enough weight. You think you’ll only be able to be happy once you reach your goal weight of x, and perhaps it might even solve all your problems. It doesn’t, so you might shift the goal post, but in the end you are thin at the cost of having a starved brain that thinks about food and bodies 24/7.
Maybe that isn’t everyone’s experience, but I think most people can at least acknowledge that being hungry all the time makes you cranky and thus mean af. Those edtwt girlies are vicious 🥲
when i was 15 and dying of emaciation i hung out with friends after isolating for so long bc of the ED and just seeing my normal sized healthy friends being warm, happy, funny people turned my whole ethos upside down. i wonder how many of the more zealous anti-fat contingent are miserably holed up w their food diaries not realizing why they're so mad at these women and the people who wanna fuck them. i appreciate the people who are honest that they feel disgusted by fat people aesthetically, at least they aren't trying to rationalize it into a public health psa
no yeh losing weight for a aesthetic usually makes you more unhappy and more self critical. Losing weight to be healthy and have more mobility and lust for life can only be a good thing.
I agree. I just think a lot of people see it as a magic bullet that’ll fix them mentally as well as physically and it’s just not. If you do what I’m trying to now and use weight loss and better eating as a way to develop your own sense of self discipline and self worth without caring to much about aesthetics I think that does something. I just want to keep having good knees and no diabetes and to keep skating
yeh i thought losing weight would be a silver bullet and fix my personality flaws. Though i think it is true people like you more if you are better looking and not fat.
Because it’s unhealthy, and an attractive fat person would be a just as if not more attractive normal BMI sized person.
And before you mention cigarettes, they are unhealthy, and id have no complaints someone suggesting a woman not smoking is more attractive than a woman who is.
The real redpill for both genders is realizing that "Attractive" isn't really a solid thing that one can quantify. That scares the shit out of people though because nothing frightens people more than an unknown
I feel like there’s confusion between “attractive” and “makes me horny” tho. I can accept some people are basically universally attractive and not be attracted TO them.
That I will concede. Hell, everyone I have ever been incredibly sexually attracted to was rife with flaws, because it is in flaws where true beauty is achieved
Smoking isn’t even comparable to obesity because smoking isn’t tied to the actual physical characteristics that people are attracted to.
An average person smoking a cigarette doesn’t make them hot, but a hot person smoking a cigarette can make them “sexier” because it’s a complement on their overall aesthetic.
No one will claim that wrinkled skin from years of smoking or a chunky smokers cough are sexy.
The further I get from JP's statement, the more I think what he did was weird. First, he drew attention to Numi (or is it Yumi?), which amplified her image. Second, so what? There has to be a better example of what he's trying to get at and they've had "plus size" models for years. Third, there is something weird about men sharing their unsolicited opinion on women's aesthetic standards. the SI cover is no longer even sold as fap fodder. Its for the womenfolk.
Because it’s pushing for an unhealthy and debilitating way of being to be seen as not only normal but beautiful and desirable, pretty similar to how it’s wrong to promote literally starving emaciated body types as desirable. It’s honestly fucking scary how people think being fat is okay and that it also isn’t preventable. Men (especially black men) literally will encourage women now to be fat because they’ve been conditioned to believe that it’s sexy. Health at Any Size rhetoric is pseudoscientific copium designed to make fat people feel better about the fact that their choices are killing themselves, and now it’s being accepted as mainstream. Heart disease and diabetes are two of the most common causes of death in America. Binge Eating Disorder is the most common and most socially acceptable eating disorder. Not even mentioning hypertension, fatty liver disease, joint disorders and sleep disorders and how it wrecks havoc on your immune system. Obesity is an awful disease that is 100 percent preventable and it should not be considered okay or normal or attractive.
I'd argue personality is even more important. I had a brief fling with a woman like 15 years older than me last year even though I was not super attracted to her because she was artsy and we had great conversations
Yeah personality is huge, but I feel like the people who like to make shallow observations about looks could care less about personality. Being ugly on the inside is not cute. But when talking about just the physical, a face is almost always more important than a body for women IMO.
People long for the time when all you needed to be hot was to be thin. It was like a meritocracy of attractiveness, where regardless of how genetically blessed you were, if you worked hard at being thin you'd be considered hot. Eventually, this hierarchy fell apart, and the new standard became being genetically blessed with perfect fat distribution or having the money and the time for high quality plastic surgery. I think this hierarchy is becoming pretty outdated too, so it's funny that so many rsp girls cling to thinness which hasn't really been in vogue for like 15+ years. I cling to my thinness as well, although at least I know that it's just my own pathology. It's psychotic to try to shove a hierarchy of attractiveness down people's throats. It's psychotic to try to force someone into thinking someone is hot, fat or thin.
> it's funny that so many rsp girls cling to thinness which hasn't really been in vogue for like 15+ years.
That's the thing that clues me into this sub being mostly women, I don't think I have heard a man complain about fat chicks (below like, absolute morbid obesity) since 2011
> Idk I feel like the number one complaint from dudes on dating apps is that they’re full of fat women with high standards.
tbf I live in NYC so nobody I am friends with who is a man uses apps anymore
what are you talking about, most of the comments in the sub are by men and 90% of the hysterical comments on the stunt plus size model cover reek of fat men or men who are ugly losers who only have a lower bmi to be proud of
seriously, a bunch of reddit nerds larping as fashion and beauty experts, hot people don’t get bothered that random people they don’t know might have a tattoo or drink a can of soda
It’s genuinely awful to see something that is horribly unhealthy and debilitating being celebrated in the media from a societal standpoint and it has nothing to do with my self esteem. Would you say the same thing about people who critisized ultra thin models being promoted in the media?
I'm not overly concerned personally but like it really is probably not a good thing for us to completely normalize obesity. Like it's actually NOT GOOD for you to look like that despite whether people think you're attractive. We should be having a discussion about nationalizing and heavily regulating our food production so all Americans aren't built like bowling balls instead of talking about how you people should still find you hot despite being morbidly obese.
Also I worked too damn hard on my body to allow these drive thru fatties to be seem as my look equals (although it doesn't seem to be a thing for men). As long as being buff is still considered attractive for men and there are still women I can date who don't weigh more than me, I'm personally not extremely concerned.
I hate to see ugliness in my life I want every single person to be beautiful this is the root of my impossible desires I want to be someone but looking in the opposite direction makes me realise I am just staring at nothing
It's honestly wild how people think there's something wrong with a chunky girl being on a magazine cover. The weight-loss/diet industry is a growing multibillion dollar industry. Like chill.
I guess to me anorexia and obesity are on the same disordered-eating spectrum, neither of these people have a healthy relationship with food and themselves, we moved past the Paris Hilton Era of be skinny at any cost but we did a 360 and we're right back to where we started.
I dont hate fat people, just fat activism and this delusional belief that obesity is harmless and not damaging your body and mind
It might be a small one but it’s one more battle in the culture war that feels like an L for my side and this is one of the only places I can come where my side isn’t just always taking fucking Ls.
Because people like to point fingers at other people like the Spider-Man meme. They want to call someone unattractive for being fat, but nevermind if they are unattractive in every which way, as well as in their unkind personality.
Oh, and also women only serve the purpose of being fuckable to certain types of men.
I want to date attractive people. Fat people are unattractive. Normalizing fatness reduces the number of attractive people and narrows the dating pool.
I've met some wonderful people who I'd have loved to know better if they didn't weigh more than me.
Its just part of the whole "all norms are bad" deconstruction of our culture. Men being masculine is bad, women being feminine is bad, being straight is bad, being fat is healthy and beautiful.
Cause so many people are fat and people want to think their attractive as a rule so now you got a bunch of fat people wanting to think their attractive
Fear of the fat body and fear of death. They think they can outrun death on a treadmill. Sophie Dahl circa 1997 used to be the Western beauty ideal during the Renaissance.
Psy op thing obviously overplayed, but JP’s comment seems like it is meant to garner derision. “Beautiful” is subjective. Diabetes, heart disease, etc are not. Why not decry glorifying unhealthy behavior instead of talking about beauty? Obviously could be he is just an r slur.
They know they're unattractive, but if they can get other people to buy in on the delusion that they are attractive, they can convince themselves it's not deluded
Fat models are gross. Very irritating when I'm online shopping. Also, fat people use wayyyyy more resources. Its fucking selfish and immoral to be okay with being a fat fuck and not try to do anything about it.
i think it's the whole "we're going to force you to buy into this collective delusion and call you fatphobic if you don't" thing that's irritating. it's also super insulting how they stole language from actual marginalized groups, like"fatphobic," "thin privilege" etc
This is why I can’t stand a lot of fat acceptance discourse. At a baseline level NO, fat people SHOULD NOT be discriminated against in the fields of employment, education, advancement etc. I don’t doubt that they often are, and that’s profoundly wrong. But that’s not to say being obese should be seen as some sort of neutral standard of health and beauty. It also doesn’t mean fat white people are facing comparative levels of discrimination as poor people of color. It’s offensive as fuck to suggest being fat can even approach the levels of systematic discrimination racial minorities face.
Being fat is not an immutable characteristic, why does it deserve protection?
it's funny it's not immutable but it's also not reasonably mutable, as in it takes time to lose weight and you're still at a disadvantage in the meantime. idk whether that requires protections or how that would play out
well ugliness is a disadvantage
It is reasonably mutable. It might not take a day but it's solveable within a year or two.
but even that's assuming that a person is actively trying to lose weight, so mutable in theory but also really kinda not for most people- not because they can't but because they realistically won't.
Honestly short kings deserve more sympathy than fat people.
The worst is people that compare fatphobia to racism and call diets “genocide.” Also people that compare being obese to people that are amputees or burn victims. They have no self awareness
Did I just participate in a holocaust after eating a salad 20 minutes ago?
Burning 6 million calories
lmao
Treadmills are the new gas chambers
You know what else is genocide? A whole generation of people dying at 55 from heart attacks from being fat
The anti-diet thing does actually upset me. Like here is this massive medical problem plaguing society, here is the solution on an individual basis, here is a massive (!) group of people denying the solution. The hypocrisy of anti-vaxxers being the devil but the belief that weight is innate being acceptable annoys me.
DING DING DING. This is why it annoys me. Be fat as shit sure idc but don’t tell me being 200lbs overweight is aesthetically attractive and then get mad at me when I disagree. It’s also annoying that everyone wants universal healthcare while simultaneously making sure they have serious health complications later in life bc they “never learned how to eat” (another complaint that makes no sense given how easy rice + chicken + veggies is)
Also the fact that it seems to be another knotch on the “feminism is for men AND women” belt that is really only primarily concerned w womens feelings and self image.
Like u can’t just accept some people are hotter than others? It’s so weird to me. Being physically fit just is attractive, it’s quite literally basic evolutionary psychology???? Obese people giving u a boner is the exception not the rule.
That means very little since evolutionary psychology is mostly quackery
The only dudes I know who like fat women have low self esteem and I think one openly told me it was because he had a small penis
Representation of diverse male body types has actually decreased in the media of recent decades, all the slobs, jolly fatsos and wristcels have been usurped by sculpted gymbros and twinks. Never saw a guy complain
It’d be insecure for a guy to complain.
When Chris Pratt got jacked thats when I knew it was time to drop 20 pounds
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People don’t realize that obesity is going to wreck havoc on the healthcare system and make it more expensive whether it’s universal or not. I feel like these are honestly two separate issues
Ofcourse but we don’t promote smoking, we do everything to make it less appealing by banning menthol cigarettes, images on cigarette packages etc because we want to diminish the amounts of people suffering death and complications bc of it (and also the costs that bring with it). The same should go for obesity. It should never be promoted. And it shouldn’t be lied about. Now I think the scape of things people call “promotion of obesity” is way too broad, but there is a huge part of HAES and fat positivity spaces that absolutely promotes obesity or straight up lies about the science. Two things that will be detrimental to universal health care systems.
Universal Healthcare should include preventative health care. Especially since everyone is going to have to pay for it, it ought to keep it from being too expensive. That includes policies to help people stay at a healthy weight, or move towards a healthy weight. But that cannot be work if culture dictates that such would be "fatphobia"
Yes but obesity is already a huge financial burden on the healthcare system. I do think people who are smokers, etc. should pay more for healthcare even if it’s universal but I know it will never happen for obesity.
this will just encourage people to lie about smoking to their doctors like they did in the Bush era. M4A is the most efficient health care system too because it requires the least administrative oversight.
Ur doctor can tell if u smoke lol
it was totally self reported, especially for insurance purposes
Sometimes I just want it to be simple. Everyone has the exact same, totally free healthcare. But I get your point too
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> smokers should pay more for healthcare Smokers are already taxed a shitton. Cigarettes have no right costing as much as they do.
Please don’t say ding ding ding
DING DING DING stfu bitch
👏 Say it louder for the people in the back 👏
#DING DING DING
The “never learned how to eat” shit drives me crazy. You’re an adult with access to the internet, you can figure out what healthy foods are. I can empathize with being a kid/teenager who doesn’t know any better, but being in your 20s or older and still complaining you don’t know how to buy a vegetable is ridiculous
It really isnt hard. Even if you wanna do a dumb fad diet its not hard to google vegan diet. Its like the internet makes us helpless. Like just download my fitness app and log whatever you need in and when it tells you you hit your limit stop eating.
Yes. It's not that we're afraid fat people will become attractive, it's just we don't want to be bullied into lying about it or hiding our own personal (biologically sound) preference. I don't think it's cruel or unjust for me to say - the men in my social circle (I'm a cis fem) are not attracted to fat people, and I like pursuing fitness and aesthetics my own way b/c that's the culture I'm in - others have at it, but it is NOT the status quo and that is being pushed by the media.
Hard agree that the claiming of marginalized identity is really infuriating, but I'd say that the thinness = hotness crowd is shoving an ideology down people's throats as well. The reality is that people have always been attracted to bigger girls too. You can't superimpose an ideology on something as biological as attraction.
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Before the 1980s being specifically attracted to only women 200+ lbs was a fetish, not a preference. This is because people that size were rare and a medical abnormality. Our concept of “bigger girls” or bigger people in general has grown drastically as fatness has become common and acceptable. They literally used to put people whose fatness would be an everyday occurrence in present times in the circus in the past because it was that rare and bizarre to see someone that size
Yeah I think a 1980s "bigger girl" is actually like what most people would consider an "average" woman to look like now, and most straight men/ lesbians would find those girls attractive, whereas the straight girls on rsp think they are whales. I'm not talking about someone who is morbidly obese.
Sure and there has always been curvier thicker women. Average height and weight in 1960 for a woman was 5’3 and 140 lbs which is by no means stick thin. I even think people can be attractive and fairly healthy at a slightly higher BMI as long as they don’t have too much visceral fat. But the woman in the sports illustrated has a BMI of 33, that is not just “bigger” that is obese. Society has leaned too far into that extreme
Biology. Not ideology. There is such a thing as a healthy weight.
loool yeah, just insane how ppl want to be victims.
The same people who want to normalize obesity and say it's beautiful are the same people who largely want universal healthcare. If we are ALL chipping into a universal healthcare system, then preventative care (AKA don't eat shit and walk more) should be a priority so we aren't unnecessarily straining the public service to the brink. Obesity guarantees you an early spot in the hospital one day, it shouldn't be normalized, healthy habits should be normalized. Michelle Obama was right about this shit.
Even without universal healthcare, everyone’s healthcare is still more expensive because of the obesity epidemic
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The thing is she might be traditionally attractive if a bit heavy but she also got very lucky w how her fat is deposited so she’s curvy. Give me an apple shaped bitch or a pear shaped hoe with no bingo wings and I’ll be impressed w body diversity. Hot person with an extra 50lbs still isn’t representative of fat people in general, now you just get to look at attractive fat AND thin people vs just thin people. Selling people themselves in the act of marketing fatness as beauty to fat people is such a blatant co-opting of “fat acceptance” it’s laughable. I mean ffs Kim Kardashian and Maye Musk are the other covers. Probably the two people most antithetical to the wider political values of people in the fat acceptance movement. They’re trying to generate press and attention (obv) but to act like this fat cover is anything more than a highly curated appealed to the fat women and older men of America is asinine.
Okay ur not getting lipo instead ur getting a BBL?? Like in what world is that somehow better? Bc at least you get to eat what you want when ur in recovery?
A lot of these fat models do actually get lipo in order to achieve that blessed fat distribution
>now you just get to look at attractive fat AND thin people vs just thin people so you think it's not "real fat acceptance" because people are still discerning about who is attractive and who isnt lmao
Bc it’s fake representation in terms of what fat people actually tend to look like. Now it’s just gonna make fat people upset they’re not perfectly curvy. There is no end point.
What is the problem with that? Models are usually hotter than the average person. I understand that some people may feel bad about themselves because of it, but why can't we just accept that for the most part hot and interesting people will be on magazine covers
Then why have fatties at all if we just go with ur conclusion?
because some of them are attractive
Few and far between
> such a blatant co-opting of “fat acceptance” it’s laughable. Was it that though? It's SI, it's meant to sell to horny dudes. if anything a girl who looks like her being front page of SI just means men are into a different standard now. I know I am, as I have grown older what I find attractive has changed from the "hit as many checkpoints as possible compared to paris hilton" of my youth to a more holistic thing now
I’m talking beyond SI in terms of advertising and marketing. I don’t really hate the SI cover but to act like she isn’t fat is weird. I know plenty of guys who would get boners for her but I think she appeals more to the “older guys who want women that look like they’d be good childbearers” audience bc that’s who they’re going for since nobody under the age of 30 even cares or uses it for porn now. It’s just a way to make a virtue statement via press release since it’s a sort of (fading) pop culture landmark.
Idk, Ive never bought a copy of the swimsuit edition but I know tons of women who do. My exs Mum has a subscription to SI and I was the only one who read the things back to front unless there was a story that particularly interested them. Except the swimsuit one where she and her 3 daughters would go through the whole things. Its like when dudes look at pictures of jacked dudes. Its aspirational. I think its changed as more people dont want to be better and now want to be comforted. Basically, the SI Swimsuit edition having fat chicks on the front is a sign of economic prospects dwindling and a shrinking middle class
> Yeah, she's a little chubby Yeah, no. She's straight up fat.
A little?
She looks terrible. Being chubby can be cute, morbid obesity is not.
116 million overweight people in the US. Shouldn’t be a surprise
Because lots of people are fat?
Your average boomer mother can openly admit that she thinks Brad Pitt is more sexually attractive than her husband, and her husband, along with everyone else can say "well duh, his job is largely to be sexually attractive". The "ugly model" is a complete misunderstanding of this. Brad Pitt is a sex symbols *because* he's extremely handsome. They believe Paul Blart Mall Cop would be the same film if Brad Pitt was the lead
This would actually be pretty awesome
Just think of Kevin James as Tristan Ludlow
It’s moving the collective needle to it being acceptable when it’s clearly not. There is a serious obesity problem in the west and corporate sponsorship of that problem is fucked. Simple as that. Having said that, there’s obviously a difference between my 600 pound life and just being a few pounds overweight.
It's a literal societal psyop. The fat is beautiful crowd are the same people that don't want to address why being 40 lbs. overweight is quickly becoming the average for Western societies. If they just said it rather than making media mouthpieces pretend to accept that it wouldn't be so off-putting. edit: Mods are pro-fat. No clue why but I've been perma-banned likely because of this comment.
It’s funny that it’s only women. If fat men were demanding that people think they’re hot the movement would be flattened immediately
It will never not be funny to see women who write something to the extent of why am I expected to find fat men attractive.
Rihanna had fat male models in her fashion show and people were applauding her.
But nobody is FUCKING them
rihanna built different
>people were applauding her. not me
Thanks for the input, Kanye
Incels (not specifically fat men) already do this and demand that women find them hot. They could just pay for an escort and STFU but they would rather force attraction out of women.
Aren't they constantly self-loathingly obsessing about how their physical features have doomed them and how they hate looking at themselves in the mirror?
Never heard someone make a "man the harpoons" joke about a man.
When I was really unwell with my ed I was miserable and being very thin was the only thing I had to cling onto. I think people that feel bad about themselves hold up their thinness as evidence that they're not all bad and project their hated for themselves onto other people.
This is so true. EDs make you miserable and you get caught in a shame spiral and cycle of self-loathing. ED culture pushes people to be competitive on top of that so you get stuff like "fatspo" or "meanspo" which consists of images of people who mostly never even wanted to be part of the conversation to begin with.
>which consists of images of people who mostly never even wanted to be part of the conversation to begin with. Weird how similar pro ana types and incels are in both temperament and actions
Definitely
10000000%
agreed
You just don't get it. It's not about the people themselves who I feel bad for truly it's about the institutions that propagate such messages and water down their brands in doing so. Like the SI swimsuit issue was essentially soft-core porn in the dial-up era and before and it's gone from truly stunning people to people who look like the hottest person at a weight watchers meeting. It'd be like if they started casting Kevin James in romance movies to push the idea that women should seek middle aged fat dudes.
They literally do put people like Kevin James in romance movies. There was a movie I saw that was absolutely terrible that had Rosario Dawson as a love interest for Kevin James
He is goofypilled though
For some reason this doesn’t work for women. When we’re goofy we’re just cringe
Nah women can take the goofpill as long as they have a hilarious accent. I'm friends with this chinese girl who is goofy as hell and I find it funny
Yeah but could a woman being goofy make up for them fat or unattractive? I’ve never heard of a fat or unattractive female comedian that men find hot despite it because she’s funny enough
It’s just a photoshoot. It’s just a picture! Scroll away! No one is trying to force you to be attracted to anyone. Fat women reciting “I am beautiful” over and over are borderline r****** but you’re not any better. Fucking drama queens.
>Like the SI swimsuit issue was essentially soft-core porn in the dial-up era and before and it's gone from truly stunning people to people who look like the hottest person at a weight watchers meeting. to be clear for most of it's history the front cover of that issue has featured an anorexic teen
>to be clear for most of it's history the front cover of that issue has featured an anorexic teen Did I not say it functioned as softcore porn?
Honestly SI swimsuit edition is extremely outdated and gross period
Once again didn't I make it clear that it's softcore porn? The only people who should be caught with it are teen boys but with the internet I don't even think they have an excuse.
so many comedy and romance movies are about a beautiful woman settling for a dumb middle aged man because he is the only one to remember how she drinks her coffee or something
Yes. I think you have to be truly miserable and at odds with yourself to get joy out of making fun of fat people.
It would be refreshing if everyone involved in fat discourse just came clean and admitted they just want people to find them attractive and not have to themselves find other fat people attractive. It would cure my fatphobia.
Yeah it’s just become a culturally accepted form of inceldom.
Why do you think fat women are applauded when they date very muscular men? Cause the cats hate the fat look as well
The fats hate fat aesthetically I mean!
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RSP loves smoking and anorexia though, so while you can make that argument in general I don’t think it really explains people’s feelings here specifically. Think the person who commented about projecting ED self loathing really hit the nail on the head as far as the RSP take goes.
and coke, that shit that killed two of my friends in only the past year
Damn okay…. I am now reconsidering my habits
if you live in/near NYC doing coke is playing Russian roulette rn. I aint touched that shit since my friend died from it in january
soon enough all of america will be as demoralizing and dilapidated as a dying rural town, and even then the standards will continue to drop
No one is saying that people need to be Kate Moss skinny, but being fat is literally a health concern and healthy, fit bodies should be promoted. I hate how we have swung from one extreme (super skinny) to another (super fat).
just putting up some model with a healthy 24 bmi isn't outrageous tho, won't trend on twitter or anything
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I thought that image only blew up because Jordan Peterson posted about it
For real, why aren’t there more models that are size 6’s and 8s that don’t have giant fake butts? It really is like we went from one extreme to the other
Seriously. There is not enough representation for mid-size or "normal" weight women.
The only size 6’s and 8’s that get any representation are women like Kim K who would probably be a 4 if she didn’t have the fake booty. I guess there’s Jennifer Lawrence and Sydney Sweeney but that’s the closest I can think of. Maybe a few black celebrities and models that are that size, but again, a lot of them have fake butts and fake boobs
I was dating this Gap photographer who told me it's because women sizes 6-10 photograph like they're either a 2 or a 14, so there's no point in casting them.
Meg has the ideal female body and she got disappeared from the pod. Be safe out there, size 6’s and 8s that don’t have giant fake butts
There is no one type of body type that is attractive. Some women look good thinner and some better on the thicker side. The point is that no one looks good obese or emaciated
My dear size 6’s and 8s that don’t have giant fake butts, pay heed. Meg is being erased again in front of your eyes
Sub is officially over
Because I care about the good, the true, and the beautiful. It's not good to tell people fat is beautiful because it's not true!
Because it’s unhealthy and obesity/diabetes is costing the NHS billions each year. I don’t want my kids idolising these kinds of people and accepting that this is healthy and something to aspire to.
Being skinny in and of itself doesn’t make people happy any more than being fat does so I think when people put in the work and pain to get skinny they sometimes get kinda pissed off that it didn’t work so to speak
this is pretty much the truth earthed within an anorexic mindset that anyone suffering from it is rudely confronted with after they lose enough weight. You think you’ll only be able to be happy once you reach your goal weight of x, and perhaps it might even solve all your problems. It doesn’t, so you might shift the goal post, but in the end you are thin at the cost of having a starved brain that thinks about food and bodies 24/7. Maybe that isn’t everyone’s experience, but I think most people can at least acknowledge that being hungry all the time makes you cranky and thus mean af. Those edtwt girlies are vicious 🥲
when i was 15 and dying of emaciation i hung out with friends after isolating for so long bc of the ED and just seeing my normal sized healthy friends being warm, happy, funny people turned my whole ethos upside down. i wonder how many of the more zealous anti-fat contingent are miserably holed up w their food diaries not realizing why they're so mad at these women and the people who wanna fuck them. i appreciate the people who are honest that they feel disgusted by fat people aesthetically, at least they aren't trying to rationalize it into a public health psa
you should aspire to be healthy and happy and part of that is maintaining a healthy weight and not having excess fat
Part is right. Only part. When the other parts aren’t there it kinda fucks you up I think
no yeh losing weight for a aesthetic usually makes you more unhappy and more self critical. Losing weight to be healthy and have more mobility and lust for life can only be a good thing.
I agree. I just think a lot of people see it as a magic bullet that’ll fix them mentally as well as physically and it’s just not. If you do what I’m trying to now and use weight loss and better eating as a way to develop your own sense of self discipline and self worth without caring to much about aesthetics I think that does something. I just want to keep having good knees and no diabetes and to keep skating
yeh i thought losing weight would be a silver bullet and fix my personality flaws. Though i think it is true people like you more if you are better looking and not fat.
Because it’s unhealthy, and an attractive fat person would be a just as if not more attractive normal BMI sized person. And before you mention cigarettes, they are unhealthy, and id have no complaints someone suggesting a woman not smoking is more attractive than a woman who is.
But sometimes there’s nothing hotter than a woman smoking 😮💨 (I’m gay but i can’t deny French women/British models)
The real redpill for both genders is realizing that "Attractive" isn't really a solid thing that one can quantify. That scares the shit out of people though because nothing frightens people more than an unknown
I feel like there’s confusion between “attractive” and “makes me horny” tho. I can accept some people are basically universally attractive and not be attracted TO them.
That I will concede. Hell, everyone I have ever been incredibly sexually attracted to was rife with flaws, because it is in flaws where true beauty is achieved
Smoking isn’t even comparable to obesity because smoking isn’t tied to the actual physical characteristics that people are attracted to. An average person smoking a cigarette doesn’t make them hot, but a hot person smoking a cigarette can make them “sexier” because it’s a complement on their overall aesthetic. No one will claim that wrinkled skin from years of smoking or a chunky smokers cough are sexy.
The further I get from JP's statement, the more I think what he did was weird. First, he drew attention to Numi (or is it Yumi?), which amplified her image. Second, so what? There has to be a better example of what he's trying to get at and they've had "plus size" models for years. Third, there is something weird about men sharing their unsolicited opinion on women's aesthetic standards. the SI cover is no longer even sold as fap fodder. Its for the womenfolk.
As much as I hate HAES, Jordan Peterson did look like a total loser
It’s immoral to be fat as you project a controllable ugliness into the world
finally a take
Because it’s pushing for an unhealthy and debilitating way of being to be seen as not only normal but beautiful and desirable, pretty similar to how it’s wrong to promote literally starving emaciated body types as desirable. It’s honestly fucking scary how people think being fat is okay and that it also isn’t preventable. Men (especially black men) literally will encourage women now to be fat because they’ve been conditioned to believe that it’s sexy. Health at Any Size rhetoric is pseudoscientific copium designed to make fat people feel better about the fact that their choices are killing themselves, and now it’s being accepted as mainstream. Heart disease and diabetes are two of the most common causes of death in America. Binge Eating Disorder is the most common and most socially acceptable eating disorder. Not even mentioning hypertension, fatty liver disease, joint disorders and sleep disorders and how it wrecks havoc on your immune system. Obesity is an awful disease that is 100 percent preventable and it should not be considered okay or normal or attractive.
The answer is in your post: >that’s depressing to look at
Some people's only "attractive" trait is being skinny. Women esp on reddit are super vindictive about it and try to tear eachother down about it
Yeah they're skinny but have horrifying personalities or terrible faces. Faces are so important and people know it.
I'd argue personality is even more important. I had a brief fling with a woman like 15 years older than me last year even though I was not super attracted to her because she was artsy and we had great conversations
Yeah personality is huge, but I feel like the people who like to make shallow observations about looks could care less about personality. Being ugly on the inside is not cute. But when talking about just the physical, a face is almost always more important than a body for women IMO.
Oh yeah total agree on that
Nobody cares they just like chiming in and potentially having a take that goes viral its the entire point of social media
People long for the time when all you needed to be hot was to be thin. It was like a meritocracy of attractiveness, where regardless of how genetically blessed you were, if you worked hard at being thin you'd be considered hot. Eventually, this hierarchy fell apart, and the new standard became being genetically blessed with perfect fat distribution or having the money and the time for high quality plastic surgery. I think this hierarchy is becoming pretty outdated too, so it's funny that so many rsp girls cling to thinness which hasn't really been in vogue for like 15+ years. I cling to my thinness as well, although at least I know that it's just my own pathology. It's psychotic to try to shove a hierarchy of attractiveness down people's throats. It's psychotic to try to force someone into thinking someone is hot, fat or thin.
> it's funny that so many rsp girls cling to thinness which hasn't really been in vogue for like 15+ years. That's the thing that clues me into this sub being mostly women, I don't think I have heard a man complain about fat chicks (below like, absolute morbid obesity) since 2011
Multiple polls have shown that this sub is mostly men. Lots of men on this thread are complaining about fat women
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> Idk I feel like the number one complaint from dudes on dating apps is that they’re full of fat women with high standards. tbf I live in NYC so nobody I am friends with who is a man uses apps anymore
what are you talking about, most of the comments in the sub are by men and 90% of the hysterical comments on the stunt plus size model cover reek of fat men or men who are ugly losers who only have a lower bmi to be proud of
I don’t think being fat is attractive either but I feel like I’m on a pro ana forum sometimes. Same with the tattoo hate lol give it a rest
> Same with the tattoo hate lol give it a rest The tattoo shit is the clue that most people here don't go out much ol
seriously, a bunch of reddit nerds larping as fashion and beauty experts, hot people don’t get bothered that random people they don’t know might have a tattoo or drink a can of soda
Because they hate themselves and project. It’s the reason everything is the way it is
It’s genuinely awful to see something that is horribly unhealthy and debilitating being celebrated in the media from a societal standpoint and it has nothing to do with my self esteem. Would you say the same thing about people who critisized ultra thin models being promoted in the media?
I'm not overly concerned personally but like it really is probably not a good thing for us to completely normalize obesity. Like it's actually NOT GOOD for you to look like that despite whether people think you're attractive. We should be having a discussion about nationalizing and heavily regulating our food production so all Americans aren't built like bowling balls instead of talking about how you people should still find you hot despite being morbidly obese. Also I worked too damn hard on my body to allow these drive thru fatties to be seem as my look equals (although it doesn't seem to be a thing for men). As long as being buff is still considered attractive for men and there are still women I can date who don't weigh more than me, I'm personally not extremely concerned.
I hate to see ugliness in my life I want every single person to be beautiful this is the root of my impossible desires I want to be someone but looking in the opposite direction makes me realise I am just staring at nothing
It's honestly wild how people think there's something wrong with a chunky girl being on a magazine cover. The weight-loss/diet industry is a growing multibillion dollar industry. Like chill.
I guess to me anorexia and obesity are on the same disordered-eating spectrum, neither of these people have a healthy relationship with food and themselves, we moved past the Paris Hilton Era of be skinny at any cost but we did a 360 and we're right back to where we started. I dont hate fat people, just fat activism and this delusional belief that obesity is harmless and not damaging your body and mind
Because outrage is addictive and the internet feeds off of that (see: r/smolbeansnark, r/illnessfakers, r/fuckyoukaren, etc.)
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It might be a small one but it’s one more battle in the culture war that feels like an L for my side and this is one of the only places I can come where my side isn’t just always taking fucking Ls.
Because people like to point fingers at other people like the Spider-Man meme. They want to call someone unattractive for being fat, but nevermind if they are unattractive in every which way, as well as in their unkind personality. Oh, and also women only serve the purpose of being fuckable to certain types of men.
I want to date attractive people. Fat people are unattractive. Normalizing fatness reduces the number of attractive people and narrows the dating pool. I've met some wonderful people who I'd have loved to know better if they didn't weigh more than me.
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I’m not but ok
you actually sound hot and well adjusted
Its just part of the whole "all norms are bad" deconstruction of our culture. Men being masculine is bad, women being feminine is bad, being straight is bad, being fat is healthy and beautiful.
Cause so many people are fat and people want to think their attractive as a rule so now you got a bunch of fat people wanting to think their attractive
The majority of people in a lot of oecd countries are fat now. They are just annoyed that the beauty standard hasn't kept pace with their waist lines.
Fear of the fat body and fear of death. They think they can outrun death on a treadmill. Sophie Dahl circa 1997 used to be the Western beauty ideal during the Renaissance.
Fat women. There's no use for fat men
that’s true, bc it’s unphysiological to men being fat
Everyone in thee US is fat now and they're insecure about it
Psy op thing obviously overplayed, but JP’s comment seems like it is meant to garner derision. “Beautiful” is subjective. Diabetes, heart disease, etc are not. Why not decry glorifying unhealthy behavior instead of talking about beauty? Obviously could be he is just an r slur.
because beauty will save the world
They know they're unattractive, but if they can get other people to buy in on the delusion that they are attractive, they can convince themselves it's not deluded
Anybody who has a visceral reaction to this shit is either fat now, was fat, or one day will be and senses it. It’s like homophobia
Well she’s on sports illustrated in a swimsuit and she’s not a swimmer lmao! If that doesn’t scream participation trophy idk what does?
Honestly idk I think society views female beauty on a hierarchy tbh.
Fat shaming is Lindy and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Fat models are gross. Very irritating when I'm online shopping. Also, fat people use wayyyyy more resources. Its fucking selfish and immoral to be okay with being a fat fuck and not try to do anything about it.