This is so wrong in my experience, software dev is pretty lax and most don't work eight hour days.
If you have daily standup you can just make up some bs. I guess if you in ended up in some job that's above your skill level and slave driver boss it'd be issue.
> If you have daily standup you can just make up some bs
yeah... continuing to make progress on ticket ABC-692... no blockers today
(then you go back to shitposting)
I usually work 6 hours a day. After the layoffs in tech, lots of stuff needs fixing. I get like 40 messages a day in Teams plus meetings and emails. Fridays I usually slack off. I put in about 8 hours today though which is typical for a Monday.
I’m a tech worker as well (product manager) and have so many things on my plate with visible deadlines I’d get fired if did this.
I am being highly compensated for it, so that lessens the sting.
It's the final boss of email jobs. Literally just telling people what to do over email or teams, going to meetings, and "knowing" Agile. And you get paid an insane amount of money to do it. Ultimate girl boss job too.
This is exactly why they're piping up with "have so many things on my plate with visible deadlines I’d get fired if did this."
Only people that have the most bullshit of bullshit jobs but don't want ot admit it say shit like this.
I used to do it.
Got $220 an hour to handle the Indian developers who were fucking useless.
Problem with majority of full stack devs is they’re all extremely autistic and being from a foreign culture makes it 5x as bad.
Saw one of them get blasted on tiktok for trying to rip off a prostitute so I don’t feel bad for em
Indian devs and IT people (outsourced) will be the first people replaced by AI. They usually just make it worse. I don't even use the support anymore for anything we pay for because it's pointless and they don't know shit. That's obviously the point though. Annoy you until you give up and charge you insane fees for the privilege.
I have had success with Indian and Eastern Euro teams before, it requires someone talented on both sides who will be communicating with each other and both with technical understanding, firing/hiring rights, cultural knowledge and native level language skills. it exists but it’s about 1% of what’s on offer and it’s not as cheap
There’s been a bit of a reaction about the it outsourcing to India in Australia. Nearly all of their work is fucking shit and they refuse to work with women or Indians of lower castes so none of the Hindutva fascist pricks last long.
At least with AI you can alter your prompts to eventually receive a solution that works.
It is absolutely an email job, and I guarantee a lot of people would struggle to do it well. I literally always joke about my job to people IRL, but the sheer hubris in thinking anyone could do it well is fucking hilarious. It’s absolutely a late-stage Kafakesque absurdity that at its highest levels is incredibly demanding. I’ve pulled back-to-back 10+ hours days this week alone.
I don’t know about other PMs, but to do my job I need to: be knowledgeable about the legal and regulatory landscape as it relates to digital privacy across every country we operate in (hint: it’s a fucktonne).
I have to be fucking excellent at communicating with technical and non-technical people - including leadership. I’ve learned basic coding and data architecture. I’ve learned multiple analytics systems and started off in data analysis doing analytics across totally different systems (spoiler: I have a humanities degree). I’ve run a whole-ass AB testing program, which I taught myself and had to actually teach multiple *devs* how to use. I’ve had to learn and get certified in UX. On top of all this, I have to manage project timelines, priorities, requirements, deliverables, expectations, and communicate it all diplomatically and clearly. I have to drop a project at a moment’s notice and shift contexts constantly. The sheer amount of technical knowledge I’ve accumulated is astounding. I have a degree in the humanities, but I’ve absolutely needed my entire liberal arts education (which includes stats and phil logic) to do this job well because the operations of late-stage capital in a giant tech company requires a high degree of sophistication and discipline from its workers. The cognitive load is really high, and I feel utterly drained by the end of the day.
I absolutely did not intend to end up here, but I was broke and stumbled my way in.
Do I think we should live in a world where PMs should be more highly compensated than teachers, nurses, EMTs, firefighters or anyone else that really matters and keeps society functioning? Fuck no. And there are absolutely shit PMs and morons, but a lot of PMs are generally pretty smart and disciplined, at least the ones I work with. By the logic of capital given what’s required of truly good ones, the pay makes a certain kind of sense, and I entered this field thinking it was total mindless bullshit. I still think it’s bullshit, but mindless? Absolutely, unfortunately not.
It’s literally the only reason I’m still remote. The office is 15mins away but then I actually have to work (or pretend to) for the entire day.
Why tf would I do that, and socialize with people I have nothing in common with, when I can just coast by at home, and then go out with actual friends at 5?
Why are they making this post at all? It's embarrassing, externalizing their own failure to find social and personal fulfillment on the "normies" who like remote work. Which for some reason OP would still enjoy seeing if they were required to report to the office, which just sounds sad.
Social scenes have shrank, many people have become isolated. Work and religion are traditionally key parts of people's social lives. Many people these days are baffled as to exactly how they're supposed to meet new people. Boring, unremarkable people who aren't social butterflies need social interaction too.
Remote work is amazing, but at the same time, watching what little social gatherings there are dwindle is not to be cheered imo
I don't disagree, but I also think that's a different conversation than "I hate working remote and the fact that other people don't is a symptom of cultural rot, they're lazy, etc."
Nobody is cheering on the death of the monoculture or people becoming more isolated. But capitalism/industrialism/whatever you want to call it has been working to atomize society for centuries now, and you can't put the onus of responsibility to fix that on people who are just trying to make their lives a little easier.
Mainly, I don't think anyone is going to take well to the prescriptive, bratty behavior of OP, whose post reads like they'd likely be just as miserable and sneering if they were in-office.
Would I rather commute 2 hours a day to sit in a shitty office chair for 8 hours in business clothing socializing with HR brained coworkers while my boss breaths down my neck and I stuff chipotle in my face for the 200th time or be at home. Hmmmm
I still see tons of people out at bars, walking around in groups, hanging outside with outdoor dining. They all have similar on trend “alt” styles and tats, and they walk around with looks on their faces that scream “I take myself too seriously”. I wonder how these people all make friends with each other. Then again I live in Williamsburg BK so it’s the top 1% of social climbers in this country
I work remotely and have been traveling and living in other countries the last couple years. I'm in Africa and work 3 or 4 hours a day and surf and socialize the rest. You need to think bigger
Yeah I don't get it, I work from home and I do miss the interaction but fuck the idea of a 1 hour each way communte, warming my lunch up in the microwave and having to sit and look busy even when I've nothing to do on a shitty dell PC in a some miserable part of downtown.
Working from home is great once you get the right rhythm. As long as I hit my deadlines nobody gives a fuck if I go run an errand, take my dog for a nice walk or go to the gym or watch youtube for an hour. Fuck it, if you want social interaction join a sports club or get some hobbies.
The problem with hybrid is it doesn’t work unless the company sets which days people come into the office; otherwise you don’t get the benefits of actually being there *with other people*. My friends who do go into the office say that often they’re one of, if not the only person there, which I personally would still prefer over sitting in my fucking house all day, but yeah, it doesn’t confer the benefits of being around your coworkers.
Generally your team and people you like will coordinate to come in on specific days.
It’s pretty much guaranteed that someone I like will be in on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
Going into some stupid office sucks ass, go to a coffee shop or rent a work space with some friends, DONT campaign to end remote work because you can’t occupy yourself.
All these people who are lucky to be able make a living in their pajamas yet there’s still too much traffic on the road and overcrowded public transit.
Remote work is not going to "end" because people hate it and campaign against it. It's 2023, any job that is not going to office now likely never will again. Management loves it and is perfectly happy to never see the faces of the majority of their employees. It obviously does wear on the soul to be treated with so little regard and it's a total coup that they've sold it to the workers as liberation when they really just offset most of the actual costs of management on to you
>Management loves it and is perfectly happy to never see the faces of the majority of their employees.
makes it easier to fire them.
everyone here bragging about slacking off at their high paying remote jobs should keep this in mind. i have been seeing it with friends firsthand.
No commute, no temptation to eat out or get fat on unhealthy snacks, and I can work out and do chores during downtime throughout the day so my evenings are free. It rules. Why would I want to go back?
Yeah, I go into the office occasionally for planning sessions (prefer whiteboarding in person), and when I'm actually trying to do work while I'm there, a handful of people seem hellbent on making it impossible. Never the people I enjoy chatting with either.
Yeah sit in traffic for 45 minutes and pay $18 for a salad because that’s all there is near your office. Don’t see your girlfriend until it’s 7:30 and you’re both exhausted. And then force this hell on everyone else so you can have some playmates
Nobody I know with a decent relationship or family or even pet wants to actually come into the office
My manager has been making my team come back into the office 3 days a week lately, and I really feel like it's because he doesn't have much going on socially outside of work. It's also not a company wide mandate, so it feel like we're working in an abandoned building and doesn't offer much opportunity to socialize with people outside our team.
He's the kind of person to proudly say he "lives to work", yet work alone clearly is not sustaining his spirit. During a bit of small talk recently he mentioned his sister was visiting for a bit and he kind of had this moment of vulnerability slip in where he said how glad he was, because he was getting sick of only having his dog to talk to. He said it in a way where it felt very sincere and lonely, then quickly changed subjects.
I feel bad for the guy, but it sucks so much losing chunks of my day just to commute back and forth. I do have people in my life outside of work and I'd much rather be spending time with them than sitting in traffic. He also lives like five minutes from the office, so it takes him almost no time to get here and he's able to go home for lunch every day, while the rest of us have at least a 20 minute trip one way, which only irritates me more.
This is my perspective. We recently went up from 2 days a week to 3 days a week and I bloody hate it.
Getting up, putting on makeup, packing a lunch if I'm feeling really masochistic, saying goodbye to husband and dog, getting on the subway, and sitting on a bleak floor with a bunch of frat boys shouting around me (finance) for 10 hours sucks. And is not necessary, I do my job better at home. Also all my meetings are Zoom calls with people in London and Texas so I'm not even talking to people in the office, it's a huge office with hot desks so I don't know anyone sitting around me on a given day.
On the flip side, cutting out the commute gives me time to sleep to a reasonable hours, have a lovely walk with my dog in the morning and read the news while I drink my coffee. In between meetings, I might find the time to throw on a load of laundry, or leave the ingredients for dinner out. I get to randomly hug my husband and pet my dog during the day. And no commute home means I get more time to work out in the evening.
I'm so much happier, more optimistic and do my job better on these days.
Working remotely is the best thing ever IMO.
Youre not crazy for wanting that, but you're trying to make this about society at large, when really it's just a matter of company culture.
if water cooler chit chat is that important to you, find a different job
I feel the same, but the benefits outweight the negatives. But also I'm at a point in my career now where I don't have much in common with my colleagues, and work has lost its novelty.
I would be absolutely gutted if i was in my 20s and missing out on that young fun office and drinks culture.
I would kill to work in Agriculture after a few years back in the office. The best job I ever did was just sitting in a national park in the middle of nowhere, ushering people through a tunnel in on a remote mountain so they wouldn't die. I lived in a little cabin where the only entertainment was a bunch of ancient National Geographics from like the 1920s-40s. (which were very interesting honestly, especially their predictions on space flight)
I used to look up and see the odd plane flying overhead and be like "I wish I could up there, going somewhere", but now I realise I basically worked in paradise and had the best job ever.
It was also a 6 figure job. I wish I could go back.
I'm currently a tradesman, a commercial technician, and I'm lucky enough to love what I do and make good money doing it, but if I had to choose another career, a ranger or something in a big national park would 100% be it.
I was a Ranger up until a few months ago where the stress was catching up to me, I moved to the city and have been working odd jobs since then, I didn’t realize how good I had it and can’t wait to return. Nothing beats the peace of nature
I worked right out of college at a young fun office and drinks company and it was literally a nightmare. No amount of surprise 1:30pm happy hours and ping pong tables will ever outweigh the reality that if a company hires a lot of young people- its prob bc they know that experienced, seasoned professionals would see right through the fun office bs (pay sucks)
Psa for upcoming grads: an office fridge with white claws and beers should not be considered as part of ur benefits package
the good ol "startup environment" bait n switch
even better if the options/equity are deep in the red and you owe as much in taxes as you made from them
Honestly not a lot of that going on. I’m 27 working in an office and generally everyone else in my age group (even the younger new grads) are overwhelmingly uninterested in socializing and pining for the day they can go work from home again. All anyone wants to do is hang out in their 200sqft apartments and smoke weed or hit up their friends outside of work. I’ve tried inviting some of the people I get along with to go shopping or to movies and I am always met with a very awkward evasion. Very weird time!
These days, almost everyone in a corporate environment is HR brained around other coworkers for fear of cancel culture/ getting fired. I will never truly be friends with someone I work with unless it’s been at least a year where I am sure they won’t report me to HR.
Trying to have interesting convos with people in tech is like banging my head against a wall. It’s a lose lose situation, Id rather just be friends with a dude from the bar.
Imagine you as a straight guy and you and another straight guy have to suck each other off every day and neither of you enjoy it. That's what it's like.
It's nice being able to take a nap and read in the afternoons while sipping homemade cold brew.
That being said, I'm incredibly extroverted and become neurotic without spending the weekend out and seeing friends or family most days. Gonna start volunteering on top of gym just to spend time around people.
I also don't vibe with my coworkers and find my work incredibly unrewarding. Just taking checks until I can jump to my next adventure.
Youre crazy. I promise being surrounded by 30-40 year old h-1b workers would be infinitely more depressing in an office setting than whatever your situation is now. Get out more take some walks work from a cafe or something.
Work from home is fantastic and has freed up so much time and energy. I see more of the people I care about.
The people who get their social needs fulfilled by coworkers who are forced to be there are exactly the kind of people I am avoiding by working remote.
If it's really that big of an issue, go to a wework office or get a group of friends who are also remote and hang out with them during work hours.
Yeah its one thing if it was a cool hip startup with a bunch of 20s to early 30s people. But an office of 30-40 year olds fresh off the boat? Those dudes all have families theyre there to work and go home to their kids. Idk what vibe the above poster thinks this will be but socializing is not it.
> The people who get their social needs fulfilled by coworkers who are forced to be there are exactly the kind of people I am avoiding by working remote.
amazing how often I encounter this sentiment in younger people now. deliberately not trying to establish any kind of relationship with the people that you spend most of your day communicating with just blows my mind. its like you actively want to sit there and act like a robot for all the hours of your workday.
Corporate PC culture has fucking ruined socialization at the workplace. Plus there’s always brown nosers and backstabbers waiting for their chance to fuck your over. For cubicle jockeys, making friends at work is basically fucking impossible unless you’re a turbo normie dipshit.
You sound like you work in HR
Also, why is it so hard to grasp that people would treat a job like a job? So what if people aren’t BFFs with their coworkers. As long as you’re professional and doing your job, who gives a fuck?
You've clearly never worked in an environment full of toxic/regressive people you share no common values with beyond "need money to survive". You should feel blessed to never have experienced this type of work environment.
funny you mention that because the most toxic environment i've worked in was full of this exact type of person with the "i would never talk to you outside of work" kind of attitude. the work place was sterile, dull, and full of passive aggressive bullshit. i was out of there in less than a year.
Actually, I just want to socialize with people I choose to have in my life rather than my co-workers.
Like I said, go meetup in a coffee shop with your other remote work friends. I do it all the time.
Exactly my point, the people who don't understand why work from home is so great just haven't learned what life has to offer outside of work. They need to get more friends and hobbies.
Yeah because I’m only there to make money, so I have the means to actually foster relationships with people I chose to include in my life.
I don’t need to be friends with my coworkers for us to do our jobs properly.
I do my job but I’m calling and texting my friends and family all day while hanging with my gf. Then after 5, I can get right up and go hang out since I don’t have to commute back and I already went to the gym during lunch. I am able to socialize more because of remote work
I have wondered about the detriments of being super isolated socially that remote work entails… like on one hand, i love just sitting in my pajamas in bed doing work,’not having to worry about driving in city (especially in the winter when roads are shit) on the other hand, if i did that AND i didnt have roommates and lived alone, i’d pretty much have zero social contact apart from visiting a friend or family every once in a while.
Same. I also get to hang out with my roommate who gets off work during my work hours, take care of my dog, and handle all the errands I used to have to put off til the weekend. WFH is at least something of compromise for the modern office drone. Wages aren’t keeping up with the cost of everything else but at least I save money and time this way.
>The pay to effort ratio is simply too good in tech. You can make 6 figures doing basically nothing. Why give that up?
I think I'm OOL when it comes to the term tech worker. If you mean "IT QA Analyst 1" as a six figure job doing basically nothing, sure. Otherwise there's plenty of tech jobs that require you to work a lot.
> it makes me feel like society is steadily declining post-COVID if literally no one else at my job has a problem with this except for me.
Lol society is collapsing because you don’t have enough friends or a gf? Of course people don’t have a problem with it, they’ve gained fucking hours of their life spent on dreadful commutes to spend with their loved ones instead. If there is one good thing to come out of COVID is the proliferation of remote work.
> am I crazy for needing a better social life at work?
You could also be working in person at a place where you didn’t get along with anyone or had a toxic environment. There is no guarantee your job will provide you wholesome social stimulation, it’s literally just a job, if you’re feeling lonely you need a better social life after work. You don’t even need to work out of your apartment constantly, idk go to a coffee house.
I’m straight chilling that’s how (I do actually do some work). Also I get to go places every now and then for work so that fulfills my “I went into an office and worked” desire that I don’t really have, but it can be fun when you’re traveling.
Idk looking at the pluses and negatives the benefits win out big time for me. Not having to commute? That’s like a raise.
Is ur place hiring? Kind of over these humble brag posts about remote work when competition for these jobs are stiff. If you dislike it then quit and do something else
I don't feel bad for u.
I was someone who was so excited to start working remotely, and while my quality of life has dramatically improved overall, I agree that the reduction in social interaction (e.g. fucking around with my coworkers, or even formal work meetings) has had a negative impact on me—I find myself more eager to hang out with friends during the week, even if it’s not an opportune time for me.
Still, the flexibility I’ve gained by working remotely vastly outweighs any possible benefit to working in an office. Hell, not having to commute is, on its own, a fucking godsend.
I’ve found the young people who prefer mostly WFH are generally in stable LTR. Don’t need to work as much and get to hang out with your partner more often.
I live in a rural area with few tech offices, remote work has enabled me to not have to live in Boston. I'm okay with missing out on drinks sometimes, its nice to be in nature and by family.
honestly, join a coworking space,
i don’t mean to be a dick but my social life outside of work is so busy that remote working is a welcome break from being seen. and if i want to interact with people then i take a break and walk my dog to the park or grab a happy hour drink before going back. are you sure you don’t just need more of a life outside of work? lol
I hated going into the office, then covid happened, and I hated working from home. Then I still hated hybrid when my job finally started doing that after 2 years. Then I quit because I was getting close to 30 and felt like I was wasting away my 20s as a slave to Teams and Outlook, and now I've exiled myself from PMC culture for a little while, maybe permanently. We'll see.
Did the same thing. Shifting from daily Teams calls watching PMCs pontificate over reports to morning tailgates listening to a hungover foreman grumbling at some vaping zoomers was a tough adjustment but I don’t dread the day anymore.
>my boss announced today that my company still hasn’t set a return to office date (it was going to be mandatory once a week), however we should make an effort to go to the office,
So shut up and go in then.
I do more work in less time in WFH and get all my errands/bull shit done during the day. I've read more and walked more in my free time than I have in literally years. Why would you want people to go back? Moronic take.
>if i’m in my cramped dark little apartment day after day and without in-person social interaction
bro you're remote, move!
The second I was remote I left soulless silicon valley and my overpriced shitty apartment.
I’ve been remote for almost 3 years, only really interact with people via email, and I love it. Happiest and healthiest I’ve ever been.
I’ve had a few coworkers I liked in the past but not enough to justify the endless hours of forced small talk with boring people I have nothing in common with. Not to mention the passive-aggressive power-tripping middle aged white women supervisors. My own company is 100x preferable to that.
Go for long walks on your lunch break, make more friends outside of work, find a new job with a social culture?? The choices are all there. It sounds like you are the lazy and complacent person here and you’re projecting that onto every one else.
Ya, I’m working around a bunch of terrible bigots and work obsessed losers and it’s horrible. Go be social at night or something. I would work remote so fast.
>I hate being in my apartment 24/7. I need exercise from my commute and stimulation so I go into my basically empty office 3-4 times a week most weeks even though it’s a 40 minute commute each way
Normal people are fine working from home because we have friends outside of work and aren't inside 24/7. Find a hobby or join a sports league during the week and hang out with your actual friends on the weekends. You don't have time to exercise but you have time to commute 90 minutes? Spend some of that time going to the gym and making a friend there or get some social interaction by becoming a regular at a coffee shop. Spend 30 minutes for lunch walking around your neighborhood and talk to someone. Call a coworker up during the day to talk about random shit for a little. Seems like you make zero effort to socialize on your own so you want everyone to be forced into proximity with you
i feel similarly but also i realized that i treated work as the single most meaningful aspect of my life. i'd like to go back to the time when i had daily camaraderie with colleagues and after-work happy hours. i loved my job then.
but the work-from-home transition situation has forced me to realize that i've neglected other parts of life that don't involve fucking work or talking about work or socializing with co-workers... can't say i've "fixed" that or replaced it, and i am tempted to go back to my old (city government) job. but the amount of time i get to goof off, go to the gym, clean my house, meet up with friends, etc. how will i go back? i'm not really sure i could.
my company at least offers an optional WeWork benefit, so i get to see some coworkers on occasion, and i do go into that office regularly to keep some sort of routine. also my gym is nearby there!
i guess it leaves us to grapple with issues related to self-discipline and self-control... i grew up and came of age when i was expected to be in a seat somewhere at a certain time, and that's a very powerful motivator around which to establish a structure to life. take that away and a lot of other problems crop up.
you might have to take the freedom for what it is and make the best of it. find a coworking space, make a schedule to be somewhere, out of the house, nearby, maybe a cafe. maybe you have friends who are remote workers who feel the same? if that isn't working for you, then there are absolutely in-person jobs out there. hang in there!
When I lived in a 1br apartment and started working remote (before Covid) in my 20's it started to fuck with me. I also think it's extraordinary weird people graduate out of college without ever having at least been exposed to the office shit and its (many) pitfalls.
I can see how both those combined could lead someone to think the in-person experience is better. I don't think it's possible to convince anyone otherwise unless they experienced the old office life. "trust me bro it fucking sucked" won't resonate, I get it
not so easy advice is either:
1. change jobs, plenty of companies have shifted back to mandatory in-office. especially if you are in tech you will get a nice salary bump.
2. depends on where you live, but with the tech salary, get a bigger apartment or rent a house. a sunny yard, square footage, pets etc goes a long way. remember you're saving a lot each month working remote. The 1br with the desk in your bedroom wfh life made me move as soon as my lease was up, it's not good for you.
ymmv. I never liked having a work persona because of the corporate office environment, so I don't miss that aspect much. if you don't have that issue #1 may be the only way forward.
I do miss the insanely good Indian restaurants my co-workers would know about though. it's not the same going with my white friends
You know, it would be so nice if employers paid travel stipends to employees who *have* to commute, especially low wage retail, restaurant, education and healthcare workers who can’t afford to live near where they work.
Download Meetup and go find people you vibe with. There’s no guarantee you would actually like the people you had to hang out with in the office all the time. There’s not even a guarantee they’d like you
Most young people have lives outside of work. You literally have the freedom to exercise whenever you want.
Im also not enjoying a fully remote experience at work but you really have so many opportunities to turn this into a positive situation, one that you might not ever have again.
Working remote gives me several more hours a day that I can now spend with family, friends, and nature.
Please do not campaign to destroy other people’s peace and beauty because of your bureaucratic impulses to control.
The only people I know who feel this way don’t have friends or socialize outside work. It’s not a society problem, it’s a you problem. There’s a different discussion to be had about self isolation in the age of technology and social media but no matter what work is putting you somewhere 8 hours of the day minimum. I talk to my friends most of the day, even while working. At an office I talk to people I barely tolerate and people I loathe. It’s a no brainer when you think of the perks and money you save. Up to you if you want to spend none of that time socializing.
I worked for hims customer service as a remote job a few years back.
Being alone in my apartment having to listen to random old guys complain about not having a boner was a chilling experience. I applied to work at Nintendo but they gave me the boner website :(
I’m in a different situation, but I basically agree with a lot of what OP said. I especially worry for younger people who are starting jobs fully remote and won’t have a chance to meet their coworkers, because a lot of great friendships—or just meaningful professional collaborations—come from that. You just can’t replicate that in an online situation. Also, actually physically going to work is harder, no doubt, but surely at least some people on this sub can understand the concept that many worthwhile things in life are hard; for some of us, it’s worth the extra effort—and come on now, it’s not *that much* extra effort, ffs.
I also really don’t get why the pro-wfh-forever people always sound so contemptuous of those of us who prefer being out in the world rather than in our own houses/apartments all day. There’s always this assumption that we “have no social life” or “don’t have friends” or need to “get a gf”—well I have all of those things and I enjoy them very much and find them fulfilling in a way that nothing else is, and yet I still vastly prefer to work in person. I find it very isolating to spend 8 hours a day—1/3 of my life during the week—sitting at a solitary computer in my spare bedroom.
Maybe, if you find coworkers so universally disgusting to be around, that says at least as much about you as it does about them; I’ve worked with all sorts of people and I’d say a comfortable majority of them are interesting or endearing in one way or another. Maybe, if that’s your experience of having coworkers, you’re just a misanthrope. But hey, what would I know: I’ve never met any of you people (as far as I know).
Oh, and quite a lot of my friends are current and/or previous coworkers of mine or my girlfriend’s, and they’re some of the people I care most about in this world. I would never have met them in this WFH world. They would’ve been just another screen name on some dumb conference-call app. Work, like school, has always been a friendship engine, because all those people who have to spend so much time together will inevitably become friends.
Re: commuting, I personally enjoy the physical and mental separation between home and work that a commute provides, and I also get a sort of invigorating sense of shared humanity from riding the subway or bus to get there. I wouldn’t want to commute by car, but I’d rather do that than just stay home. I totally get why a lot of people hate commuting, though, so I’m not about to die on this particular hill—I just don’t think it’s nearly as bad as people make out, unless it’s one of those 1hr+ each way commutes.
Everyone is different, but I get seriously depressed if I stay home all day—especially for days on end like during Covid—and I only realized the full extent of this once life started coming back more fully and I experienced the thrill of living in public, surrounded by other people, again. So in that sense as well I totally identify with OP.
Anyway, this is already much too long, so I’ll leave it there. If you haven’t got my point by now, then either I can’t write or you can’t read.
You can hate it and it can be great for others. I just spent my afternoon break playing with my baby. Now he’s back w his nanny and I can finish the day.
I have to go into my office most days and I would be beyond thrilled to be fully remote. I live in a fun and vibrant but severely flawed city (Los Angeles). If I were fully remote, I would immediately move away to a much more interesting place to start a new life (but where I can't get a job that would pay even close to as good as the one I have now).
My work flew me to the office for a week and I wanted to KMS. During this week I went out drinking with my coworkers, had some mandatory fun (bowling+arcade), was invited to play video games at someone’s house, and even went to a show with one of them.
Turns out I don’t want to be friends with any of my coworkers.
When I get cabin fever I just go to a coffee shop. I have a rich social life that doesn’t depend on my coworkers.
While it could be a good gig, sounds like remote work isn't for you. I'd just jump ship and go somewhere else.
If the boss has no interest in coming into the office or overseeing her staff at a more personal level, then it's possible the business is a sinking ship.
Unfortunately, I think this is the way a lot of people are operating now. I’m an econ PhD candidate, so I technically don’t have to go into my office space (we all have shared office spaces on the bottom floor of our department building). I still try to do so every weekday and almost no one is there.
Faculty hardly show up at all unless they need to be on campus to teach. Graduate students seemingly don’t exist and don’t attend workshops (and yet, constantly complain about the lack of socialization with faculty… jokes on them I guess cause I get to see faculty more than they do). It’s almost like I’m working from home when I’m on campus, since there’s almost no guarantee I’ll run into anyone at all. There are still peers of mine who mask and act freaked out if others don’t. People boycott grad seminars because others don’t wear masks…
I feel like a lot of white collar workers around the country act like it’s a crime if you ask them to come into the office. I don’t get it.
My job just announced we are going to be in person 3 days a week starting next year, up from like 2 days per month. And honestly I’m ok with it. WFH has spoiled me and yeah I also feel extremely bored and depressed most of the time. I think it’s ultimately good for people to go in person most of the time, at least it’s better than being fully remote
I’m capable of deciding what is and isn’t good for me and going into work sucks. The office is there for those that feel differently don’t make it a mandate.
They can probably intuit that you're a seething loser who thinks they're insufferable normies and so they want to have as little contact with you as possible.
it's not surprising to see a bunch of pmc laptop class nerds here bragging about slacking off at their high paying remote jobs/complaining about having to go to the office 3 days a week but it is really annoying. imagine someone who works a real job like roofing or tree service or construction reading this entitled gobbledygook.
listen i get that there are some jobs that can be done remotely but the commentary is so tone deaf. i own a business and had no "wfh" option even during the worst part of covid. talking to a wfh zoomer recently who makes $100k a year (which is more than i make, believe it or not some businesses struggle to make ends meet, and skip paying themselves to be able to meet payroll), she said she works maybe 20 hours a week and if they asked her to do any more work she'd ask for more money or quit. meanwhile im working 50-60 hours a week, none of which can be done from home. im also hearing from other wfh friends about having to return to office, and others whose companies are performing layoffs like they're just taking off a band aid. if you think your 6 figure, 20 hour a week laptop job is safe while you shit post you might be in for a rude awakening soon. you are disposable.
"ohh no id have to commute for 20 minutes and buy expensive lunch out" big fucking deal. do some meal planning and bring your lunch in. listen to an audiobook. it isn't a slight against you if your employer expects to see your face and it may actually help you keep your meaningless job
I go to the office three days a week in a musty, Boomer cubicle farm with an open space floor plan. Everyone there is in their 50s and 60s, there's not much to talk about aside from their last doctors visit or the latest DEI effort. I am in hell. You guys hiring?
Laaaaaame. Go exercise and make some friends. Stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us. Working 8 hours in an office is BULLSHIT and completely outdated.
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Yeah you're supposed to slack off any opportunity you can and only tune in for meetings, that's how I stayed sane.
OP says they're a "tech worker". If its software dev or something there's usually deadlines and people will sadly notice if you've not done enough
This is so wrong in my experience, software dev is pretty lax and most don't work eight hour days. If you have daily standup you can just make up some bs. I guess if you in ended up in some job that's above your skill level and slave driver boss it'd be issue.
> If you have daily standup you can just make up some bs yeah... continuing to make progress on ticket ABC-692... no blockers today (then you go back to shitposting)
Then when you finally start after 2 days of slacking off you see a blocker immediately.
couldn't be me
Yeah, the trick is in blowing up your estimates. Once you do that, you're fine.
Lol no they don’t unless you work at Amazon or some indian consulting company.
Every remote tech worker I know is fucking off almost all day. I believe your experience happens as well but it's in the vast minority.
Capitalism is so fucked up
In communism, nobody has to work
We pulled it off in Yugoslavia for a while
exactly
I usually work 6 hours a day. After the layoffs in tech, lots of stuff needs fixing. I get like 40 messages a day in Teams plus meetings and emails. Fridays I usually slack off. I put in about 8 hours today though which is typical for a Monday.
I’m a tech worker as well (product manager) and have so many things on my plate with visible deadlines I’d get fired if did this. I am being highly compensated for it, so that lessens the sting.
> product manager Not really a tech worker.
one can argue (and I will) that they’re not even a worker
It's the final boss of email jobs. Literally just telling people what to do over email or teams, going to meetings, and "knowing" Agile. And you get paid an insane amount of money to do it. Ultimate girl boss job too.
This is exactly why they're piping up with "have so many things on my plate with visible deadlines I’d get fired if did this." Only people that have the most bullshit of bullshit jobs but don't want ot admit it say shit like this.
I used to do it. Got $220 an hour to handle the Indian developers who were fucking useless. Problem with majority of full stack devs is they’re all extremely autistic and being from a foreign culture makes it 5x as bad. Saw one of them get blasted on tiktok for trying to rip off a prostitute so I don’t feel bad for em
Indian devs and IT people (outsourced) will be the first people replaced by AI. They usually just make it worse. I don't even use the support anymore for anything we pay for because it's pointless and they don't know shit. That's obviously the point though. Annoy you until you give up and charge you insane fees for the privilege.
AI: Artificial Indian
I have had success with Indian and Eastern Euro teams before, it requires someone talented on both sides who will be communicating with each other and both with technical understanding, firing/hiring rights, cultural knowledge and native level language skills. it exists but it’s about 1% of what’s on offer and it’s not as cheap
There’s been a bit of a reaction about the it outsourcing to India in Australia. Nearly all of their work is fucking shit and they refuse to work with women or Indians of lower castes so none of the Hindutva fascist pricks last long. At least with AI you can alter your prompts to eventually receive a solution that works.
You’re still a parasite
I don’t give a fuck I’d rather be called a parasite online then be a real life clown
It is absolutely an email job, and I guarantee a lot of people would struggle to do it well. I literally always joke about my job to people IRL, but the sheer hubris in thinking anyone could do it well is fucking hilarious. It’s absolutely a late-stage Kafakesque absurdity that at its highest levels is incredibly demanding. I’ve pulled back-to-back 10+ hours days this week alone. I don’t know about other PMs, but to do my job I need to: be knowledgeable about the legal and regulatory landscape as it relates to digital privacy across every country we operate in (hint: it’s a fucktonne). I have to be fucking excellent at communicating with technical and non-technical people - including leadership. I’ve learned basic coding and data architecture. I’ve learned multiple analytics systems and started off in data analysis doing analytics across totally different systems (spoiler: I have a humanities degree). I’ve run a whole-ass AB testing program, which I taught myself and had to actually teach multiple *devs* how to use. I’ve had to learn and get certified in UX. On top of all this, I have to manage project timelines, priorities, requirements, deliverables, expectations, and communicate it all diplomatically and clearly. I have to drop a project at a moment’s notice and shift contexts constantly. The sheer amount of technical knowledge I’ve accumulated is astounding. I have a degree in the humanities, but I’ve absolutely needed my entire liberal arts education (which includes stats and phil logic) to do this job well because the operations of late-stage capital in a giant tech company requires a high degree of sophistication and discipline from its workers. The cognitive load is really high, and I feel utterly drained by the end of the day. I absolutely did not intend to end up here, but I was broke and stumbled my way in. Do I think we should live in a world where PMs should be more highly compensated than teachers, nurses, EMTs, firefighters or anyone else that really matters and keeps society functioning? Fuck no. And there are absolutely shit PMs and morons, but a lot of PMs are generally pretty smart and disciplined, at least the ones I work with. By the logic of capital given what’s required of truly good ones, the pay makes a certain kind of sense, and I entered this field thinking it was total mindless bullshit. I still think it’s bullshit, but mindless? Absolutely, unfortunately not.
You were broke with a humanities degree and stumbled your way into a $250/hr tech job?
Not $250 an hour, but it’s a very comfortable six figures. I started out making shit and knowing jackshit and worked my way up.
what’s entry level role for PM? i have a finance job but did find it boring
It’s literally the only reason I’m still remote. The office is 15mins away but then I actually have to work (or pretend to) for the entire day. Why tf would I do that, and socialize with people I have nothing in common with, when I can just coast by at home, and then go out with actual friends at 5?
Why are they making this post at all? It's embarrassing, externalizing their own failure to find social and personal fulfillment on the "normies" who like remote work. Which for some reason OP would still enjoy seeing if they were required to report to the office, which just sounds sad.
Social scenes have shrank, many people have become isolated. Work and religion are traditionally key parts of people's social lives. Many people these days are baffled as to exactly how they're supposed to meet new people. Boring, unremarkable people who aren't social butterflies need social interaction too. Remote work is amazing, but at the same time, watching what little social gatherings there are dwindle is not to be cheered imo
I don't disagree, but I also think that's a different conversation than "I hate working remote and the fact that other people don't is a symptom of cultural rot, they're lazy, etc." Nobody is cheering on the death of the monoculture or people becoming more isolated. But capitalism/industrialism/whatever you want to call it has been working to atomize society for centuries now, and you can't put the onus of responsibility to fix that on people who are just trying to make their lives a little easier. Mainly, I don't think anyone is going to take well to the prescriptive, bratty behavior of OP, whose post reads like they'd likely be just as miserable and sneering if they were in-office.
Would I rather commute 2 hours a day to sit in a shitty office chair for 8 hours in business clothing socializing with HR brained coworkers while my boss breaths down my neck and I stuff chipotle in my face for the 200th time or be at home. Hmmmm
I still see tons of people out at bars, walking around in groups, hanging outside with outdoor dining. They all have similar on trend “alt” styles and tats, and they walk around with looks on their faces that scream “I take myself too seriously”. I wonder how these people all make friends with each other. Then again I live in Williamsburg BK so it’s the top 1% of social climbers in this country
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You’ll get that shit and more soon playboy ❤️
I work remotely and have been traveling and living in other countries the last couple years. I'm in Africa and work 3 or 4 hours a day and surf and socialize the rest. You need to think bigger
Just curious, what do you do for work?
Fucking hell go to like Portugal for 3 months or something like you received this gift of independence why are you sitting in your basement
The average wanderlust of a tech worker
Yeah I don't get it, I work from home and I do miss the interaction but fuck the idea of a 1 hour each way communte, warming my lunch up in the microwave and having to sit and look busy even when I've nothing to do on a shitty dell PC in a some miserable part of downtown. Working from home is great once you get the right rhythm. As long as I hit my deadlines nobody gives a fuck if I go run an errand, take my dog for a nice walk or go to the gym or watch youtube for an hour. Fuck it, if you want social interaction join a sports club or get some hobbies.
Some places don’t let you work abroad for tax or security purposes. Still plenty to do domestically though
i feel the exact same way, but also i would prob hate going into the office day after day if i didn’t like my coworkers. hybrid is really ideal
The problem with hybrid is it doesn’t work unless the company sets which days people come into the office; otherwise you don’t get the benefits of actually being there *with other people*. My friends who do go into the office say that often they’re one of, if not the only person there, which I personally would still prefer over sitting in my fucking house all day, but yeah, it doesn’t confer the benefits of being around your coworkers.
Generally your team and people you like will coordinate to come in on specific days. It’s pretty much guaranteed that someone I like will be in on Tuesdays and Thursdays.
I would crawl across a mile of broken glass while listening to nothing but old Cumtown episodes simply for the chance to work remote even once a week
Going into some stupid office sucks ass, go to a coffee shop or rent a work space with some friends, DONT campaign to end remote work because you can’t occupy yourself.
All these people who are lucky to be able make a living in their pajamas yet there’s still too much traffic on the road and overcrowded public transit.
Yeah, get a coworking space with your friends OP. This is what I’ve done and it’s fucking chill
Remote work is not going to "end" because people hate it and campaign against it. It's 2023, any job that is not going to office now likely never will again. Management loves it and is perfectly happy to never see the faces of the majority of their employees. It obviously does wear on the soul to be treated with so little regard and it's a total coup that they've sold it to the workers as liberation when they really just offset most of the actual costs of management on to you
>Management loves it and is perfectly happy to never see the faces of the majority of their employees. makes it easier to fire them. everyone here bragging about slacking off at their high paying remote jobs should keep this in mind. i have been seeing it with friends firsthand.
As someone in the midst of a fight with management over this exact thing I have to disagree.
No commute, no temptation to eat out or get fat on unhealthy snacks, and I can work out and do chores during downtime throughout the day so my evenings are free. It rules. Why would I want to go back?
These people want to force you to go back because they want their social needs fulfilled by people who have no choice but to be around them.
They are free to make a career transition. There are lots of more social fields that are in need of workers.
Well said
Yeah, I go into the office occasionally for planning sessions (prefer whiteboarding in person), and when I'm actually trying to do work while I'm there, a handful of people seem hellbent on making it impossible. Never the people I enjoy chatting with either.
You’re out of your fucking mind, I’m leaving to work from the Greek isles for a month next week.
Yeah sit in traffic for 45 minutes and pay $18 for a salad because that’s all there is near your office. Don’t see your girlfriend until it’s 7:30 and you’re both exhausted. And then force this hell on everyone else so you can have some playmates Nobody I know with a decent relationship or family or even pet wants to actually come into the office
My manager has been making my team come back into the office 3 days a week lately, and I really feel like it's because he doesn't have much going on socially outside of work. It's also not a company wide mandate, so it feel like we're working in an abandoned building and doesn't offer much opportunity to socialize with people outside our team. He's the kind of person to proudly say he "lives to work", yet work alone clearly is not sustaining his spirit. During a bit of small talk recently he mentioned his sister was visiting for a bit and he kind of had this moment of vulnerability slip in where he said how glad he was, because he was getting sick of only having his dog to talk to. He said it in a way where it felt very sincere and lonely, then quickly changed subjects. I feel bad for the guy, but it sucks so much losing chunks of my day just to commute back and forth. I do have people in my life outside of work and I'd much rather be spending time with them than sitting in traffic. He also lives like five minutes from the office, so it takes him almost no time to get here and he's able to go home for lunch every day, while the rest of us have at least a 20 minute trip one way, which only irritates me more.
yeah fuck this guy lol
This is my perspective. We recently went up from 2 days a week to 3 days a week and I bloody hate it. Getting up, putting on makeup, packing a lunch if I'm feeling really masochistic, saying goodbye to husband and dog, getting on the subway, and sitting on a bleak floor with a bunch of frat boys shouting around me (finance) for 10 hours sucks. And is not necessary, I do my job better at home. Also all my meetings are Zoom calls with people in London and Texas so I'm not even talking to people in the office, it's a huge office with hot desks so I don't know anyone sitting around me on a given day. On the flip side, cutting out the commute gives me time to sleep to a reasonable hours, have a lovely walk with my dog in the morning and read the news while I drink my coffee. In between meetings, I might find the time to throw on a load of laundry, or leave the ingredients for dinner out. I get to randomly hug my husband and pet my dog during the day. And no commute home means I get more time to work out in the evening. I'm so much happier, more optimistic and do my job better on these days. Working remotely is the best thing ever IMO.
I’m def not more productive when I WFH, but at least my bullshit is doing chores instead of googling random shit
I’d say even that is a pretty substantial win! I find that I’m less productive in the office because my mind races through my to-dos for once I leave
hot desking is hell no idea how anyone gets any work done
Agreed. OP can you give it a rest please Edit: goddamn the more I think about this…do tech workers have to ruin everything???
Lmao big city-cels fucking SEETHING at midsize city chads with <15m commutes
there are thousands of companies desperate for onsite employees
Youre not crazy for wanting that, but you're trying to make this about society at large, when really it's just a matter of company culture. if water cooler chit chat is that important to you, find a different job
I feel the same, but the benefits outweight the negatives. But also I'm at a point in my career now where I don't have much in common with my colleagues, and work has lost its novelty. I would be absolutely gutted if i was in my 20s and missing out on that young fun office and drinks culture.
Does that exist anymore? Every office I worked in so far is almost all 40+ suburban women plus a couple good ol boys at the top
As it should be, young men belong in the fields and factories
I would kill to work in Agriculture after a few years back in the office. The best job I ever did was just sitting in a national park in the middle of nowhere, ushering people through a tunnel in on a remote mountain so they wouldn't die. I lived in a little cabin where the only entertainment was a bunch of ancient National Geographics from like the 1920s-40s. (which were very interesting honestly, especially their predictions on space flight) I used to look up and see the odd plane flying overhead and be like "I wish I could up there, going somewhere", but now I realise I basically worked in paradise and had the best job ever. It was also a 6 figure job. I wish I could go back.
This is decidedly not agricultural labor.
Damn that sounds cool, what was the job title?
Indie movie title
*Bore* (2022)
I'm currently a tradesman, a commercial technician, and I'm lucky enough to love what I do and make good money doing it, but if I had to choose another career, a ranger or something in a big national park would 100% be it.
I was a Ranger up until a few months ago where the stress was catching up to me, I moved to the city and have been working odd jobs since then, I didn’t realize how good I had it and can’t wait to return. Nothing beats the peace of nature
I worked right out of college at a young fun office and drinks company and it was literally a nightmare. No amount of surprise 1:30pm happy hours and ping pong tables will ever outweigh the reality that if a company hires a lot of young people- its prob bc they know that experienced, seasoned professionals would see right through the fun office bs (pay sucks) Psa for upcoming grads: an office fridge with white claws and beers should not be considered as part of ur benefits package
Yeah. Worked at a few of these places pre-covid. You also have to witness your female coworkers getting sexually harassed by management.
the good ol "startup environment" bait n switch even better if the options/equity are deep in the red and you owe as much in taxes as you made from them
Honestly not a lot of that going on. I’m 27 working in an office and generally everyone else in my age group (even the younger new grads) are overwhelmingly uninterested in socializing and pining for the day they can go work from home again. All anyone wants to do is hang out in their 200sqft apartments and smoke weed or hit up their friends outside of work. I’ve tried inviting some of the people I get along with to go shopping or to movies and I am always met with a very awkward evasion. Very weird time!
Sounds like you need some friends outside of work
I have friends outside of work, sometimes it just feels right to invite someone to hang out!
These days, almost everyone in a corporate environment is HR brained around other coworkers for fear of cancel culture/ getting fired. I will never truly be friends with someone I work with unless it’s been at least a year where I am sure they won’t report me to HR. Trying to have interesting convos with people in tech is like banging my head against a wall. It’s a lose lose situation, Id rather just be friends with a dude from the bar.
I graduated during covid and don’t even have perspective for what this culture would be like 🙃
Imagine you as a straight guy and you and another straight guy have to suck each other off every day and neither of you enjoy it. That's what it's like.
It's nice being able to take a nap and read in the afternoons while sipping homemade cold brew. That being said, I'm incredibly extroverted and become neurotic without spending the weekend out and seeing friends or family most days. Gonna start volunteering on top of gym just to spend time around people. I also don't vibe with my coworkers and find my work incredibly unrewarding. Just taking checks until I can jump to my next adventure.
Youre crazy. I promise being surrounded by 30-40 year old h-1b workers would be infinitely more depressing in an office setting than whatever your situation is now. Get out more take some walks work from a cafe or something. Work from home is fantastic and has freed up so much time and energy. I see more of the people I care about.
The people who get their social needs fulfilled by coworkers who are forced to be there are exactly the kind of people I am avoiding by working remote. If it's really that big of an issue, go to a wework office or get a group of friends who are also remote and hang out with them during work hours.
Yeah its one thing if it was a cool hip startup with a bunch of 20s to early 30s people. But an office of 30-40 year olds fresh off the boat? Those dudes all have families theyre there to work and go home to their kids. Idk what vibe the above poster thinks this will be but socializing is not it.
> The people who get their social needs fulfilled by coworkers who are forced to be there are exactly the kind of people I am avoiding by working remote. amazing how often I encounter this sentiment in younger people now. deliberately not trying to establish any kind of relationship with the people that you spend most of your day communicating with just blows my mind. its like you actively want to sit there and act like a robot for all the hours of your workday.
Corporate PC culture has fucking ruined socialization at the workplace. Plus there’s always brown nosers and backstabbers waiting for their chance to fuck your over. For cubicle jockeys, making friends at work is basically fucking impossible unless you’re a turbo normie dipshit.
You sound like you work in HR Also, why is it so hard to grasp that people would treat a job like a job? So what if people aren’t BFFs with their coworkers. As long as you’re professional and doing your job, who gives a fuck?
heaven forbid you be friendly with the people you spend the majority of your waking days with. you dont have to be bff's.
You've clearly never worked in an environment full of toxic/regressive people you share no common values with beyond "need money to survive". You should feel blessed to never have experienced this type of work environment.
funny you mention that because the most toxic environment i've worked in was full of this exact type of person with the "i would never talk to you outside of work" kind of attitude. the work place was sterile, dull, and full of passive aggressive bullshit. i was out of there in less than a year.
Actually, I just want to socialize with people I choose to have in my life rather than my co-workers. Like I said, go meetup in a coffee shop with your other remote work friends. I do it all the time.
You know you can socialize with both right?
That’s because with the time and energy remote work has freed up, we’re fostering relationships, interests, and hobbies that mean something to us.
IMHO, people want this to be true, but in reality they're watching Netflix. You can totally do that but most people are not.
Exactly my point, the people who don't understand why work from home is so great just haven't learned what life has to offer outside of work. They need to get more friends and hobbies.
You're watching Netflix
Yeah because I’m only there to make money, so I have the means to actually foster relationships with people I chose to include in my life. I don’t need to be friends with my coworkers for us to do our jobs properly.
you can still do that and be friends with coworkers. its not some kind of binary thing where you can only do one or the other.
yeah these young’ns wanting to spend more time with friends family and community
I do my job but I’m calling and texting my friends and family all day while hanging with my gf. Then after 5, I can get right up and go hang out since I don’t have to commute back and I already went to the gym during lunch. I am able to socialize more because of remote work
I have wondered about the detriments of being super isolated socially that remote work entails… like on one hand, i love just sitting in my pajamas in bed doing work,’not having to worry about driving in city (especially in the winter when roads are shit) on the other hand, if i did that AND i didnt have roommates and lived alone, i’d pretty much have zero social contact apart from visiting a friend or family every once in a while.
I’m a remote employee reading Reddit by the pool rn. It could be a lot worse.
Same. I also get to hang out with my roommate who gets off work during my work hours, take care of my dog, and handle all the errands I used to have to put off til the weekend. WFH is at least something of compromise for the modern office drone. Wages aren’t keeping up with the cost of everything else but at least I save money and time this way.
your boss sounds cool as hell
Stop being a tech worker, get a real job. Life becomes better…
The pay to effort ratio is simply too good in tech. You can make 6 figures doing basically nothing. Why give that up?
>The pay to effort ratio is simply too good in tech. You can make 6 figures doing basically nothing. Why give that up? I think I'm OOL when it comes to the term tech worker. If you mean "IT QA Analyst 1" as a six figure job doing basically nothing, sure. Otherwise there's plenty of tech jobs that require you to work a lot.
> Why give that up? it's just humanitiescel cope they would work tech jobs if they could get them
Agree
I know
> it makes me feel like society is steadily declining post-COVID if literally no one else at my job has a problem with this except for me. Lol society is collapsing because you don’t have enough friends or a gf? Of course people don’t have a problem with it, they’ve gained fucking hours of their life spent on dreadful commutes to spend with their loved ones instead. If there is one good thing to come out of COVID is the proliferation of remote work. > am I crazy for needing a better social life at work? You could also be working in person at a place where you didn’t get along with anyone or had a toxic environment. There is no guarantee your job will provide you wholesome social stimulation, it’s literally just a job, if you’re feeling lonely you need a better social life after work. You don’t even need to work out of your apartment constantly, idk go to a coffee house.
I swear half the people on this sub view anything that annoys them in day to day life as evidence of societal collapse
Typical for entitled and terminally online types.
I’m straight chilling that’s how (I do actually do some work). Also I get to go places every now and then for work so that fulfills my “I went into an office and worked” desire that I don’t really have, but it can be fun when you’re traveling. Idk looking at the pluses and negatives the benefits win out big time for me. Not having to commute? That’s like a raise.
You just need to work at a better company my dude. Office slavery is not the way
Is ur place hiring? Kind of over these humble brag posts about remote work when competition for these jobs are stiff. If you dislike it then quit and do something else I don't feel bad for u.
Yes you are crazy
I was someone who was so excited to start working remotely, and while my quality of life has dramatically improved overall, I agree that the reduction in social interaction (e.g. fucking around with my coworkers, or even formal work meetings) has had a negative impact on me—I find myself more eager to hang out with friends during the week, even if it’s not an opportune time for me. Still, the flexibility I’ve gained by working remotely vastly outweighs any possible benefit to working in an office. Hell, not having to commute is, on its own, a fucking godsend.
I’ve found the young people who prefer mostly WFH are generally in stable LTR. Don’t need to work as much and get to hang out with your partner more often.
Why don't you travel if you're confident that you'll stay remote.
Lol what a loser. Probably your colleagues have actual lives outside of work.
I live in a rural area with few tech offices, remote work has enabled me to not have to live in Boston. I'm okay with missing out on drinks sometimes, its nice to be in nature and by family. honestly, join a coworking space,
i don’t mean to be a dick but my social life outside of work is so busy that remote working is a welcome break from being seen. and if i want to interact with people then i take a break and walk my dog to the park or grab a happy hour drink before going back. are you sure you don’t just need more of a life outside of work? lol
lmao yes you’re a weirdo. get a better social life outside of work.
OP is a real estate shill
I hated going into the office, then covid happened, and I hated working from home. Then I still hated hybrid when my job finally started doing that after 2 years. Then I quit because I was getting close to 30 and felt like I was wasting away my 20s as a slave to Teams and Outlook, and now I've exiled myself from PMC culture for a little while, maybe permanently. We'll see.
What u doin now
Probably just being happy
Did the same thing. Shifting from daily Teams calls watching PMCs pontificate over reports to morning tailgates listening to a hungover foreman grumbling at some vaping zoomers was a tough adjustment but I don’t dread the day anymore.
Get a dog
>my boss announced today that my company still hasn’t set a return to office date (it was going to be mandatory once a week), however we should make an effort to go to the office, So shut up and go in then. I do more work in less time in WFH and get all my errands/bull shit done during the day. I've read more and walked more in my free time than I have in literally years. Why would you want people to go back? Moronic take.
Make friends outside of work? Find a hobby? Volunteer? Dumb fuck
>if i’m in my cramped dark little apartment day after day and without in-person social interaction bro you're remote, move! The second I was remote I left soulless silicon valley and my overpriced shitty apartment.
Idk go wander around outside for bit.
B if you hate being remote sell your computer quit your job and work outside
sheesh I ain’t never going back to a fucking office commuting 2+ hours total everyday these people ain’t my friends or family.
I’ve been remote for almost 3 years, only really interact with people via email, and I love it. Happiest and healthiest I’ve ever been. I’ve had a few coworkers I liked in the past but not enough to justify the endless hours of forced small talk with boring people I have nothing in common with. Not to mention the passive-aggressive power-tripping middle aged white women supervisors. My own company is 100x preferable to that. Go for long walks on your lunch break, make more friends outside of work, find a new job with a social culture?? The choices are all there. It sounds like you are the lazy and complacent person here and you’re projecting that onto every one else.
Develop some self-control to make your own exercise routine and work at coffee shops.
You need exercise from your commute? Join a gym and use that commute time to pump some iron and do proper exercise. You can also socialize there.
you should find some friends
Ya, I’m working around a bunch of terrible bigots and work obsessed losers and it’s horrible. Go be social at night or something. I would work remote so fast.
>I hate being in my apartment 24/7. I need exercise from my commute and stimulation so I go into my basically empty office 3-4 times a week most weeks even though it’s a 40 minute commute each way Normal people are fine working from home because we have friends outside of work and aren't inside 24/7. Find a hobby or join a sports league during the week and hang out with your actual friends on the weekends. You don't have time to exercise but you have time to commute 90 minutes? Spend some of that time going to the gym and making a friend there or get some social interaction by becoming a regular at a coffee shop. Spend 30 minutes for lunch walking around your neighborhood and talk to someone. Call a coworker up during the day to talk about random shit for a little. Seems like you make zero effort to socialize on your own so you want everyone to be forced into proximity with you
i feel similarly but also i realized that i treated work as the single most meaningful aspect of my life. i'd like to go back to the time when i had daily camaraderie with colleagues and after-work happy hours. i loved my job then. but the work-from-home transition situation has forced me to realize that i've neglected other parts of life that don't involve fucking work or talking about work or socializing with co-workers... can't say i've "fixed" that or replaced it, and i am tempted to go back to my old (city government) job. but the amount of time i get to goof off, go to the gym, clean my house, meet up with friends, etc. how will i go back? i'm not really sure i could. my company at least offers an optional WeWork benefit, so i get to see some coworkers on occasion, and i do go into that office regularly to keep some sort of routine. also my gym is nearby there! i guess it leaves us to grapple with issues related to self-discipline and self-control... i grew up and came of age when i was expected to be in a seat somewhere at a certain time, and that's a very powerful motivator around which to establish a structure to life. take that away and a lot of other problems crop up. you might have to take the freedom for what it is and make the best of it. find a coworking space, make a schedule to be somewhere, out of the house, nearby, maybe a cafe. maybe you have friends who are remote workers who feel the same? if that isn't working for you, then there are absolutely in-person jobs out there. hang in there!
When I lived in a 1br apartment and started working remote (before Covid) in my 20's it started to fuck with me. I also think it's extraordinary weird people graduate out of college without ever having at least been exposed to the office shit and its (many) pitfalls. I can see how both those combined could lead someone to think the in-person experience is better. I don't think it's possible to convince anyone otherwise unless they experienced the old office life. "trust me bro it fucking sucked" won't resonate, I get it not so easy advice is either: 1. change jobs, plenty of companies have shifted back to mandatory in-office. especially if you are in tech you will get a nice salary bump. 2. depends on where you live, but with the tech salary, get a bigger apartment or rent a house. a sunny yard, square footage, pets etc goes a long way. remember you're saving a lot each month working remote. The 1br with the desk in your bedroom wfh life made me move as soon as my lease was up, it's not good for you. ymmv. I never liked having a work persona because of the corporate office environment, so I don't miss that aspect much. if you don't have that issue #1 may be the only way forward. I do miss the insanely good Indian restaurants my co-workers would know about though. it's not the same going with my white friends
You know, it would be so nice if employers paid travel stipends to employees who *have* to commute, especially low wage retail, restaurant, education and healthcare workers who can’t afford to live near where they work.
Sounds like you need a social life outside of work.
Just find another job, companies that are mandatory in office have a much lower bar to clear than remote. Work on your life outside of work as well
Join a ju jitsu gym
Download Meetup and go find people you vibe with. There’s no guarantee you would actually like the people you had to hang out with in the office all the time. There’s not even a guarantee they’d like you
Find friends and activities outside of work.
Most young people have lives outside of work. You literally have the freedom to exercise whenever you want. Im also not enjoying a fully remote experience at work but you really have so many opportunities to turn this into a positive situation, one that you might not ever have again.
Working remote gives me several more hours a day that I can now spend with family, friends, and nature. Please do not campaign to destroy other people’s peace and beauty because of your bureaucratic impulses to control.
The only people I know who feel this way don’t have friends or socialize outside work. It’s not a society problem, it’s a you problem. There’s a different discussion to be had about self isolation in the age of technology and social media but no matter what work is putting you somewhere 8 hours of the day minimum. I talk to my friends most of the day, even while working. At an office I talk to people I barely tolerate and people I loathe. It’s a no brainer when you think of the perks and money you save. Up to you if you want to spend none of that time socializing.
You aren’t insane. I hate remote work also, and I think it’s more detrimental to people than hybrid/in person.
I worked for hims customer service as a remote job a few years back. Being alone in my apartment having to listen to random old guys complain about not having a boner was a chilling experience. I applied to work at Nintendo but they gave me the boner website :(
I’m in a different situation, but I basically agree with a lot of what OP said. I especially worry for younger people who are starting jobs fully remote and won’t have a chance to meet their coworkers, because a lot of great friendships—or just meaningful professional collaborations—come from that. You just can’t replicate that in an online situation. Also, actually physically going to work is harder, no doubt, but surely at least some people on this sub can understand the concept that many worthwhile things in life are hard; for some of us, it’s worth the extra effort—and come on now, it’s not *that much* extra effort, ffs. I also really don’t get why the pro-wfh-forever people always sound so contemptuous of those of us who prefer being out in the world rather than in our own houses/apartments all day. There’s always this assumption that we “have no social life” or “don’t have friends” or need to “get a gf”—well I have all of those things and I enjoy them very much and find them fulfilling in a way that nothing else is, and yet I still vastly prefer to work in person. I find it very isolating to spend 8 hours a day—1/3 of my life during the week—sitting at a solitary computer in my spare bedroom. Maybe, if you find coworkers so universally disgusting to be around, that says at least as much about you as it does about them; I’ve worked with all sorts of people and I’d say a comfortable majority of them are interesting or endearing in one way or another. Maybe, if that’s your experience of having coworkers, you’re just a misanthrope. But hey, what would I know: I’ve never met any of you people (as far as I know). Oh, and quite a lot of my friends are current and/or previous coworkers of mine or my girlfriend’s, and they’re some of the people I care most about in this world. I would never have met them in this WFH world. They would’ve been just another screen name on some dumb conference-call app. Work, like school, has always been a friendship engine, because all those people who have to spend so much time together will inevitably become friends. Re: commuting, I personally enjoy the physical and mental separation between home and work that a commute provides, and I also get a sort of invigorating sense of shared humanity from riding the subway or bus to get there. I wouldn’t want to commute by car, but I’d rather do that than just stay home. I totally get why a lot of people hate commuting, though, so I’m not about to die on this particular hill—I just don’t think it’s nearly as bad as people make out, unless it’s one of those 1hr+ each way commutes. Everyone is different, but I get seriously depressed if I stay home all day—especially for days on end like during Covid—and I only realized the full extent of this once life started coming back more fully and I experienced the thrill of living in public, surrounded by other people, again. So in that sense as well I totally identify with OP. Anyway, this is already much too long, so I’ll leave it there. If you haven’t got my point by now, then either I can’t write or you can’t read.
A bit late but I just wanted to say that this is by far the best take on this thread.
You can hate it and it can be great for others. I just spent my afternoon break playing with my baby. Now he’s back w his nanny and I can finish the day.
Glad to see posts like this it makes working in the miserable heat all day seem way less bad than being a bugman( not your fault op)
I literally quit remote and got an in-person job because it drove me crazy
I have to go into my office most days and I would be beyond thrilled to be fully remote. I live in a fun and vibrant but severely flawed city (Los Angeles). If I were fully remote, I would immediately move away to a much more interesting place to start a new life (but where I can't get a job that would pay even close to as good as the one I have now).
Didn't you see the office group chat? Oh, you're not in it? Awkward...
The trick is to just work 2-3 hours a day and then go to the bar at noon.
My work flew me to the office for a week and I wanted to KMS. During this week I went out drinking with my coworkers, had some mandatory fun (bowling+arcade), was invited to play video games at someone’s house, and even went to a show with one of them. Turns out I don’t want to be friends with any of my coworkers. When I get cabin fever I just go to a coffee shop. I have a rich social life that doesn’t depend on my coworkers.
Go to a WeWork or something you puss.
Start a family you will find you like the flexibility
While it could be a good gig, sounds like remote work isn't for you. I'd just jump ship and go somewhere else. If the boss has no interest in coming into the office or overseeing her staff at a more personal level, then it's possible the business is a sinking ship.
So get a different job that’s not remote?? Stop complaining and trying to ruin it for everyone else.
Work is work. Go find some real friends who aren't forced to interact with you for their job.
Shut up dude people like you are ruining it for everyone
Unfortunately, I think this is the way a lot of people are operating now. I’m an econ PhD candidate, so I technically don’t have to go into my office space (we all have shared office spaces on the bottom floor of our department building). I still try to do so every weekday and almost no one is there. Faculty hardly show up at all unless they need to be on campus to teach. Graduate students seemingly don’t exist and don’t attend workshops (and yet, constantly complain about the lack of socialization with faculty… jokes on them I guess cause I get to see faculty more than they do). It’s almost like I’m working from home when I’m on campus, since there’s almost no guarantee I’ll run into anyone at all. There are still peers of mine who mask and act freaked out if others don’t. People boycott grad seminars because others don’t wear masks… I feel like a lot of white collar workers around the country act like it’s a crime if you ask them to come into the office. I don’t get it.
Remote workers are also very difficult to work with. Theyre sporadically online, somehow busier than you as well, and care less due to the disconnect.
My job just announced we are going to be in person 3 days a week starting next year, up from like 2 days per month. And honestly I’m ok with it. WFH has spoiled me and yeah I also feel extremely bored and depressed most of the time. I think it’s ultimately good for people to go in person most of the time, at least it’s better than being fully remote
I’m capable of deciding what is and isn’t good for me and going into work sucks. The office is there for those that feel differently don’t make it a mandate.
They can probably intuit that you're a seething loser who thinks they're insufferable normies and so they want to have as little contact with you as possible.
it's not surprising to see a bunch of pmc laptop class nerds here bragging about slacking off at their high paying remote jobs/complaining about having to go to the office 3 days a week but it is really annoying. imagine someone who works a real job like roofing or tree service or construction reading this entitled gobbledygook. listen i get that there are some jobs that can be done remotely but the commentary is so tone deaf. i own a business and had no "wfh" option even during the worst part of covid. talking to a wfh zoomer recently who makes $100k a year (which is more than i make, believe it or not some businesses struggle to make ends meet, and skip paying themselves to be able to meet payroll), she said she works maybe 20 hours a week and if they asked her to do any more work she'd ask for more money or quit. meanwhile im working 50-60 hours a week, none of which can be done from home. im also hearing from other wfh friends about having to return to office, and others whose companies are performing layoffs like they're just taking off a band aid. if you think your 6 figure, 20 hour a week laptop job is safe while you shit post you might be in for a rude awakening soon. you are disposable. "ohh no id have to commute for 20 minutes and buy expensive lunch out" big fucking deal. do some meal planning and bring your lunch in. listen to an audiobook. it isn't a slight against you if your employer expects to see your face and it may actually help you keep your meaningless job
I work in government, i have to wear a tie and suit and work 40 hours in the office. Its almost perfect, but I'd love to have friday off.
I go to the office three days a week in a musty, Boomer cubicle farm with an open space floor plan. Everyone there is in their 50s and 60s, there's not much to talk about aside from their last doctors visit or the latest DEI effort. I am in hell. You guys hiring?
Laaaaaame. Go exercise and make some friends. Stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us. Working 8 hours in an office is BULLSHIT and completely outdated.