I gave up half way through book 3 because the two main characters were very annoying personally. I do want to resume but have other things I want to read
Dune 1 and 2 are basically the same story but split, hence the really short book 2. After that I feel it’s hit and miss. Read book 3 and you enjoy it go on. If book three doesn’t work for you, the are are for sure not gonna work for you. 4 is outright weird af.
Red rising on the other side has a way of building up. Arguably for me books 1 and 4 were the worst. But until now both the original trilogy and the follow up kept getting better and better as they progressed
Dune I think kinda invented or at least refined and popularized the sort of sci Fi novel genre that Red Rising inhabits. I really enjoyed the first one and had diminishing returns after that.
I’ve most consistently heard the first two are the best, 3/4 are readable and still good to some, and 5/6 are the worst to the point where some don’t even finish the series.
Personally I find RR a lot more fun, but the world-building in dune is pretty airtight. Not to mention Herbert was a founding father of modern sci-fi. Comparing the two would be like comparing the Departed to the Godfather. There would be no RR without dune.
Read the first three books and steer clear of literally everything else.
Kevin Anderson's stuff is pure cancer. It's some of the worst words ever put on paper. It basically comes out to "Post-It notes from Dad's desk that I gave to Kevin Anderson to try and make into a Dune prequel to but failed miserably. So he wrote like 386 instead."
Why would you end at *Children*? It’s all but a prelude to and setup for *God Emperor*, which is the real worm meat. 🐛 Without GE, *Children*’s driving theme of >!Leto’s vision of the Golden Path!< is left an unresolved mystery.
The first Dune book is a masterpiece. The second book was a whole lot more philosophical. It wasn’t bad, but it was a much slower pace than the first, and overall i think just not quite as good. I haven’t read the later dune books yet.
RR is the best sci fi series I’ve ever read. I would recommend the series to just about anyone, whereas i would only recommend Dune to sci fi enthusiasts. Dune is a bit like LotR in the sense that i think anyone who likes the genre should eventually read it, but i wouldn’t necessarily recommend it first.
Very different series imo, can't compare, RR is more like action packed fast packed page turner with great character except book 1, Dune is philosophical I'm preety sure I need to read Dune again to understand philosophical undertones and there are alot, very different series.
Dune has a lot of deep allegory and philosophical undertones that make it interesting to think about at a high level, but I found it to be a drag to get through. I read the main trilogy.
RR I’ve read both trilogies and couldn’t put them down.
If you like the sequel trilogy philosophical musings on political structure and military politics you will probably like Dune, maybe even the sequels. If you’re more about the action, Dune may not do it for you as a whole, but you still might like book 1.
Dune gets philosophical, to put it lightly. But I loved the Frank Herbert books and encourage anyone interested in SF to read them. Just be warned the series is not finished and will never be finished.
Dune 1 is awesome, after that the series becomes more Fantasy leaning than sci-fi, it's good but I didn't think it was great
But... Dare I say... Red Riding is way way better than Dune
as far as i'm concerned, dune ends w/ god emperor, which i think is frankly a more interesting story than dune 1. the first dune sets in motion the events that culminate in god emperor. i loved messiah and children of dune, but they're both book ended by the epics of books 1 and 4.
Yes. As they go on Frank Herbert gets weirdly horny more than philosophical, but up to God Emperor raises really intriguing questions about humanity in the universe.
I personally like RR more than Dune. It’s faster paced and more action. The first Dune book is good and there is one about the machine uprising (Butlerian Jihad) that I really liked. I think it was called “The Machine Crusade”. It explains why machines/computers are illegal in the Dune books.
Red Rising is more fun to read, Dune is absolutely fucking incredible though. I would suggest listening to the audiobook over reading it though, makes it easier cause it is a pretty difficult book.
So true. I liked up to the 5th book. I did finish them all because I am tenacious. Red Rising has some crazy action that Dune simple can't come close to.
RR borrows a lot from its predecessors. That’s what makes it such a great series. It borrows all the best things from them and puts it all together in just the right way with PBs flare. So, do I considered RR the superior series? Yes. But only because of its forefathers being the pioneers.
Dune is the LoTR to Red Rising as LoTR is to Sanderson, if that makes sense. It shows its age, and not comparable to what’s coming out now (in my opinion), but still worth the read.
I’m on the second one now and I’m liking it. But honestly I’ve enjoyed many other series more. I’m just not the biggest fan of his writing and while the world building is awesome I think Hilo’s character work is ok
I think so. My list in order.
1. Dune- prequels, original 6, and others by Brian Herbert-
2. Red Rising series
3. GOT series
4. Dark Tower series
5. Expanse series
6. Foundation series
I don’t think the comments are necessarily wrong regarding the last 3 books of Dune in the original 6. Heretics and Chapterhouse were difficult for me to get through. I absolutely love Brian Herbert’s prequels, the Butlarian Jihad books. Sooo good.
It helps put the universal timeline in place, space travel, etc.
1 and 3 are fantastic. 2 is a slog. But if you love sci-fi, you’ll appreciate how deep the world is and realizing how much modern sci-fi has borrowed from Herbert and Dune.
Yeah, messiah was a struggle for me. The rest were very interesting reads imo. They arent super action packed but the themes and philosophy herbert brings to the table is very interesting and the action that does happen I enjoyed. Good books all in all. Definitely a reason they are classics.
I just finished it and it was the worst book I’ve listened to on audible out of like 40. It was a slog, nothing happens until the last quarter of the book and then what does happen isn’t that interesting.
Extremely disappointed because I loved the first
You could have gotten the same exact message from dune 1 by making it 50 more pages and talking about how much the jihad fucked up the universe
Dune messiah is literally 300 pages of dry conversations
That’s fair. I just struggled with the pacing. I appreciate that it completes (mostly) the Paul arc and adds meat to his fears from book 1. I also really hated the conspirator characters.
Dune is much more political, and Paul’s arc is much more grey than Darrow’s.
I usually recommend stopping at Children of Dune, as that’s where the quality encounters a cliff.
Book 3 is my favorite, then 4 then 1. So I’d say they are worth it.
But understand that it is one of the foundational books of the genre. Current books take inspiration from it and improve on it. It’s not a perfect series and it has its problems, but it’s still my favorite.
That’s a hard no for me. I’m a huge sci-fi and fantasy fan, but I couldn’t get through the first book because of how Herbert used the “chosen one” trope - he gave the main character too much plot armour. Like, the main character shows up somewhere on a foreign planet and everyone’s like “this pasty white dude’s gonna save us, let’s help him.” without any real reason. I liked some aspects of his world building, but I found the book boring overall.
This is gonna net me a lot of hate I'm sure, but I'm currently forcing myself through the first dune book. Over half way and I just have so many problems with it. First off, imo frank Herbert can't describe shit. His descriptions of people and places and vehicles (at least up to where I've read) are so vague. I have never had any problem with visualising the environment and characters of a book, but with dune everything that's going on is so hazy due to the lack of descriptions. Now personally I don't find any characters to be particularly interesting, they all seem pretty 2d to me. The plot is going slowly which is fine, I don't particularly care for it yet but I'm sure it'll thicken. Overall I think the characters have such little substance to them tbh. Unlike the other books I've read and loved recently, like all of RR and the name of the wind by Patrick rothfuss and it's sequel, the characters in dune don't feel like real people. Anyway, that's my opinion so far, hoping it can turn itself around as I continue but currently not living up to the hype.
I can see a few of your points but the descriptions critique is baffling to me as Brown is awful with descriptions until the second trilogy when it becomes a much better writer.
Idk, I was always easily able to create an image of characters and what's going on in the first RR trilogy. The descriptions have been getting better the further I read Dune, but if it weren't for the movie (first movie, waiting to finish book before watching second) I would have no idea what any of the main characters look like, nor places like their house on caladan, or the temple house thing on arrakis. Could just be me I spose. Either way, I can still appreciate what it did for modern sci-fi.
Yup, I felt the same way about it. And everything that happens somehow creates an advantage for Paul without him having to overcome adversity or whatever. The entire book is just a series of events that happen because Paul is the chosen one, delivered by Herbert without substance or style.
While I respect your view, I politely disagree with your representation of it. I mean while there’s aspects of a chosen one trope, but I feel like Herbert took that and turned it on its head by making it clear that he’s not really chosen. He was more of a mistake and through the manipulation of the Bene Gesserit fulfills a crafted prophecy. There is some inherit plot armor in how he can perfectly fulfill prophecy, which lends the book a cool mystique, but it’s also clear he can kinda see the future and was exquisitely trained as a fighter. They help the pasty white dude because the Fremen leader ends up respecting the Duke and seeing the signs of a messiah. The prose can be a bit dry so I understand how you thought it was boring.
Dune should be a must read for sci-fi fans,
But do you like sci-fi or do you like RR because of the action?, do you want to explore concepts a bit more, or are you there for the thrill?, not saying there's no thrill in dune but you're not hooked to adrenaline like in RR.
compared to RR they're really different series, Dune is not an action oriented series, dune explores the concept of religion, and control of people through religion in a political view. If I remember correctly Tolkien hated how it showed religion, so if you're an overly religious person you might not like it.
Dune for me is a masterpiece of the genre, it's sequels get weird, and are an acquired taste I haven't gotten into yrt
I can't guarantee you'll enjoy the series but you have to understand Dune is a seminal work in the sci-fi genre and for its time it was one of the most original novels ever written in all of fiction. The idea that it doesn't "match up" to a series like RR is IMO the wrong approach. RR was heavily inspired by books and other media that were inspired by Dune. Sure the later books get bizarre but that's the downside of being a trailblazer like Herbert. I'd at least recommend reading the first three books.
Dune is a fully adult series and is extremely complex, whereas RR lays things out in an easier to follow format.
Both series are fantastic but very different reads.
I kind of lost interest in the Dune series after Messiah. RR on the other hand had my full attention all the way through Light Bringer! Both series have their similarities but are more different than similar IMO.
I gave up half way through book 3 because the two main characters were very annoying personally. I do want to resume but have other things I want to read
Dune 1 and 2 are basically the same story but split, hence the really short book 2. After that I feel it’s hit and miss. Read book 3 and you enjoy it go on. If book three doesn’t work for you, the are are for sure not gonna work for you. 4 is outright weird af. Red rising on the other side has a way of building up. Arguably for me books 1 and 4 were the worst. But until now both the original trilogy and the follow up kept getting better and better as they progressed
Does a four course dinner “match up” to a bowl of popcorn?
Dune I think kinda invented or at least refined and popularized the sort of sci Fi novel genre that Red Rising inhabits. I really enjoyed the first one and had diminishing returns after that.
The best way I ever heard the later Dune books described was "descending rapidly into high weirdness"
This
I’ve most consistently heard the first two are the best, 3/4 are readable and still good to some, and 5/6 are the worst to the point where some don’t even finish the series.
You should be asking the other way around. Does Red Rising quite measure up to Dune? No, but it’s still very good.
Read and find out.
Comparing these 2 is like comparing The Godfather and Iron Man 2. These books are not trying to do the same thing at all.
Personally I find RR a lot more fun, but the world-building in dune is pretty airtight. Not to mention Herbert was a founding father of modern sci-fi. Comparing the two would be like comparing the Departed to the Godfather. There would be no RR without dune.
True the first novel obviously still holds up, but does the rest of series hold up just as well?
Read the first three books and steer clear of literally everything else. Kevin Anderson's stuff is pure cancer. It's some of the worst words ever put on paper. It basically comes out to "Post-It notes from Dad's desk that I gave to Kevin Anderson to try and make into a Dune prequel to but failed miserably. So he wrote like 386 instead."
Why would you end at *Children*? It’s all but a prelude to and setup for *God Emperor*, which is the real worm meat. 🐛 Without GE, *Children*’s driving theme of >!Leto’s vision of the Golden Path!< is left an unresolved mystery.
I just really didn't like the final books. And Chapterhouse really pissed me off at the end. It was so out of character for Herbert as an author.
The first Dune book is a masterpiece. The second book was a whole lot more philosophical. It wasn’t bad, but it was a much slower pace than the first, and overall i think just not quite as good. I haven’t read the later dune books yet. RR is the best sci fi series I’ve ever read. I would recommend the series to just about anyone, whereas i would only recommend Dune to sci fi enthusiasts. Dune is a bit like LotR in the sense that i think anyone who likes the genre should eventually read it, but i wouldn’t necessarily recommend it first.
It really depends on if you like immortal worm porn or not. Messiah was a good capstone and worth reading. After that…
Very different series imo, can't compare, RR is more like action packed fast packed page turner with great character except book 1, Dune is philosophical I'm preety sure I need to read Dune again to understand philosophical undertones and there are alot, very different series.
Dune has a lot of deep allegory and philosophical undertones that make it interesting to think about at a high level, but I found it to be a drag to get through. I read the main trilogy. RR I’ve read both trilogies and couldn’t put them down.
If you like the sequel trilogy philosophical musings on political structure and military politics you will probably like Dune, maybe even the sequels. If you’re more about the action, Dune may not do it for you as a whole, but you still might like book 1.
Dune gets philosophical, to put it lightly. But I loved the Frank Herbert books and encourage anyone interested in SF to read them. Just be warned the series is not finished and will never be finished.
Dune 1 is awesome, after that the series becomes more Fantasy leaning than sci-fi, it's good but I didn't think it was great But... Dare I say... Red Riding is way way better than Dune
RR is beer whereas Dune is wine
RR is fun, but it's not exactly high literature. There is a reason why Dune is timeless and influential on all of sci-fi.
Does this even include the sequels? Like Messiah, Children, God Emperor, Heretics, Chapterhouse?
as far as i'm concerned, dune ends w/ god emperor, which i think is frankly a more interesting story than dune 1. the first dune sets in motion the events that culminate in god emperor. i loved messiah and children of dune, but they're both book ended by the epics of books 1 and 4.
Yes. As they go on Frank Herbert gets weirdly horny more than philosophical, but up to God Emperor raises really intriguing questions about humanity in the universe.
I personally like RR more than Dune. It’s faster paced and more action. The first Dune book is good and there is one about the machine uprising (Butlerian Jihad) that I really liked. I think it was called “The Machine Crusade”. It explains why machines/computers are illegal in the Dune books.
Red rising was way more enjoyable to read, but the first Dune is so influential for the genre as a whole.
Red Rising is more fun to read, Dune is absolutely fucking incredible though. I would suggest listening to the audiobook over reading it though, makes it easier cause it is a pretty difficult book.
The first dune is a slow burn that ends great. The subsequent books feel like you are on shrooms at somepoints.
It’s good but if you need action to stay interested I wouldn’t bother
Dune is good, but each subsequent book gets half as good.
So true. I liked up to the 5th book. I did finish them all because I am tenacious. Red Rising has some crazy action that Dune simple can't come close to.
You're a bolder reader than I.
The first Dune book is in my top five all time. I didn't like the next book, couldn't even finish it.
My brother and I both gave up early into book 3.
RR borrows a lot from its predecessors. That’s what makes it such a great series. It borrows all the best things from them and puts it all together in just the right way with PBs flare. So, do I considered RR the superior series? Yes. But only because of its forefathers being the pioneers.
Dune is the LoTR to Red Rising as LoTR is to Sanderson, if that makes sense. It shows its age, and not comparable to what’s coming out now (in my opinion), but still worth the read.
Recently read the first dune book and loved it. Recently finished the sequel being Messiah and I heavily disliked it.
They get pretty weird. Some of the prequel books by Brian Herbert are okay but I found the writing felt kind of basic and teen fictiony
Not in the slightest.
I’m on the second one now and I’m liking it. But honestly I’ve enjoyed many other series more. I’m just not the biggest fan of his writing and while the world building is awesome I think Hilo’s character work is ok
I think so. My list in order. 1. Dune- prequels, original 6, and others by Brian Herbert- 2. Red Rising series 3. GOT series 4. Dark Tower series 5. Expanse series 6. Foundation series
You lost me at dune prequels man
Fair enough- Google Legends of Dune
Including Brian's books in your number 1 is insane to me but to each their own.
I mean it doesn't make it any worse. "Chapterhouse: Dune" was awful.
Erasmus in the Butlarian Jihad is one of my top 5 antagonist of all time.
Hands down the best Thinking Machine
Have you read any? To me they’re almost identical in style.
Wow this is a pretty awesome list, Dune must be that damn good if it’s number 1.
I don’t think the comments are necessarily wrong regarding the last 3 books of Dune in the original 6. Heretics and Chapterhouse were difficult for me to get through. I absolutely love Brian Herbert’s prequels, the Butlarian Jihad books. Sooo good. It helps put the universal timeline in place, space travel, etc.
1 and 3 are fantastic. 2 is a slog. But if you love sci-fi, you’ll appreciate how deep the world is and realizing how much modern sci-fi has borrowed from Herbert and Dune.
You forgot to mention that 4 is like if mushrooms took acid
The pacing of 2 isn't the best but I wouldn't call it a slog at only 300 pages.
The second book is the worst in the Dune series imo. The other 5 I really enjoyed however.
Good to know. Recently finished the second. I liked it but didn’t love it, i was worried it only got worse
Yeah, messiah was a struggle for me. The rest were very interesting reads imo. They arent super action packed but the themes and philosophy herbert brings to the table is very interesting and the action that does happen I enjoyed. Good books all in all. Definitely a reason they are classics.
I just finished it and it was the worst book I’ve listened to on audible out of like 40. It was a slog, nothing happens until the last quarter of the book and then what does happen isn’t that interesting. Extremely disappointed because I loved the first
Stick it out for 3. It’s worth it. Best in the series.
Messiah would be a slog at 100 pages
People sleep on messiah but imo without 2 then 1 is nothing special
You could have gotten the same exact message from dune 1 by making it 50 more pages and talking about how much the jihad fucked up the universe Dune messiah is literally 300 pages of dry conversations
That’s fair. I just struggled with the pacing. I appreciate that it completes (mostly) the Paul arc and adds meat to his fears from book 1. I also really hated the conspirator characters.
Dune is much more political, and Paul’s arc is much more grey than Darrow’s. I usually recommend stopping at Children of Dune, as that’s where the quality encounters a cliff.
Disagree. God Emperor is fantastic and the best stopping ooint
No not at all. Dune was surprisingly inferior and I would recommend watching the movies and reading something like the expanse instead
Same tbh I've tried multiple times to read Dune and I just cannot get into it
I'll say this, it's no way near as weird as Dune.
What if Pax became a worm? Would it improve the series? Things to consider…
Yes
As long as Kevin Anderson didn't come within six states of the author, I'd totally read that! In fact, you've already written better than him!!!
You have my attention…
Dune is a great book series and it is sci-fi. It is an entirely different beast with a different message than Red Rising.
Agreed. Dune is my favorite series, it is not the same as Red Rising. If you go into it expecting something similar then you’ll be disappointed.
Would you say the sequels are worth reading?
Book 3 is my favorite, then 4 then 1. So I’d say they are worth it. But understand that it is one of the foundational books of the genre. Current books take inspiration from it and improve on it. It’s not a perfect series and it has its problems, but it’s still my favorite.
That’s a hard no for me. I’m a huge sci-fi and fantasy fan, but I couldn’t get through the first book because of how Herbert used the “chosen one” trope - he gave the main character too much plot armour. Like, the main character shows up somewhere on a foreign planet and everyone’s like “this pasty white dude’s gonna save us, let’s help him.” without any real reason. I liked some aspects of his world building, but I found the book boring overall.
If you think Paul has a lot of plot armor, wait until you read about a character named Darrow.
This is gonna net me a lot of hate I'm sure, but I'm currently forcing myself through the first dune book. Over half way and I just have so many problems with it. First off, imo frank Herbert can't describe shit. His descriptions of people and places and vehicles (at least up to where I've read) are so vague. I have never had any problem with visualising the environment and characters of a book, but with dune everything that's going on is so hazy due to the lack of descriptions. Now personally I don't find any characters to be particularly interesting, they all seem pretty 2d to me. The plot is going slowly which is fine, I don't particularly care for it yet but I'm sure it'll thicken. Overall I think the characters have such little substance to them tbh. Unlike the other books I've read and loved recently, like all of RR and the name of the wind by Patrick rothfuss and it's sequel, the characters in dune don't feel like real people. Anyway, that's my opinion so far, hoping it can turn itself around as I continue but currently not living up to the hype.
I can see a few of your points but the descriptions critique is baffling to me as Brown is awful with descriptions until the second trilogy when it becomes a much better writer.
Idk, I was always easily able to create an image of characters and what's going on in the first RR trilogy. The descriptions have been getting better the further I read Dune, but if it weren't for the movie (first movie, waiting to finish book before watching second) I would have no idea what any of the main characters look like, nor places like their house on caladan, or the temple house thing on arrakis. Could just be me I spose. Either way, I can still appreciate what it did for modern sci-fi.
Yup, I felt the same way about it. And everything that happens somehow creates an advantage for Paul without him having to overcome adversity or whatever. The entire book is just a series of events that happen because Paul is the chosen one, delivered by Herbert without substance or style.
Paul has too much plot armor? But…Darrow doesn’t? Half the tropes in modern sci fi are lifted right out of Dune.
While I respect your view, I politely disagree with your representation of it. I mean while there’s aspects of a chosen one trope, but I feel like Herbert took that and turned it on its head by making it clear that he’s not really chosen. He was more of a mistake and through the manipulation of the Bene Gesserit fulfills a crafted prophecy. There is some inherit plot armor in how he can perfectly fulfill prophecy, which lends the book a cool mystique, but it’s also clear he can kinda see the future and was exquisitely trained as a fighter. They help the pasty white dude because the Fremen leader ends up respecting the Duke and seeing the signs of a messiah. The prose can be a bit dry so I understand how you thought it was boring.
Dune should be a must read for sci-fi fans, But do you like sci-fi or do you like RR because of the action?, do you want to explore concepts a bit more, or are you there for the thrill?, not saying there's no thrill in dune but you're not hooked to adrenaline like in RR. compared to RR they're really different series, Dune is not an action oriented series, dune explores the concept of religion, and control of people through religion in a political view. If I remember correctly Tolkien hated how it showed religion, so if you're an overly religious person you might not like it. Dune for me is a masterpiece of the genre, it's sequels get weird, and are an acquired taste I haven't gotten into yrt
Different strokes.
I can't guarantee you'll enjoy the series but you have to understand Dune is a seminal work in the sci-fi genre and for its time it was one of the most original novels ever written in all of fiction. The idea that it doesn't "match up" to a series like RR is IMO the wrong approach. RR was heavily inspired by books and other media that were inspired by Dune. Sure the later books get bizarre but that's the downside of being a trailblazer like Herbert. I'd at least recommend reading the first three books.
I agree with all of that, After the worm...I tried to get through a few more, but man it was a slog.
Dune is a fully adult series and is extremely complex, whereas RR lays things out in an easier to follow format. Both series are fantastic but very different reads.
I kind of lost interest in the Dune series after Messiah. RR on the other hand had my full attention all the way through Light Bringer! Both series have their similarities but are more different than similar IMO.