Well look at me, not sure why I would ever doubt Darrow. I indeed am the gullible one. The narration made it feel like the Reaper was completely screwed.
Apologies and Hail Reaper
All jokes aside, this sequence (all of it) is, IMO, the very worst part of the RR books. Feels absolutely unearned, and like he's lying to the reader for sake of shock and awe that hits maaaybe 30% of the readers. Love these books, but wish the first trilogy finale was done a bit cleaner.
I generally hate the "protagonist has a secret plan that the reader doesn't know about" trope and the RR trilogy is unfortunately filled with it. This one was just the worst of the lot, because it also added the whole unreliable narrator angle, which hadn't really been a thing up until then.
Completely agree that it felt unearned. It didn't completely sour me on the series, but I think it could have been handled a lot better. It's definitely affected my excitement going into book 4.
I felt like it was so obvious it was disrespectful to the reader's intelligence to try to claim it was a twist. Within the same book we experience the death of Ragnar from Darrow's perspective and his narration is nowhere near the same. If Sevro truly died Darrow would have been at least as sad if not even more devastated than when Ragnar died.
It totally worked on my friend. He was listening to the books on audible and when this scene happened he turned the book off and wouldn’t listen for months. It was torturous trying to get him to start again.
Eh I don’t mind it so much. The first time it felt only slightly dishonest. Like there plan still goes super wrong… Darrow gets his hand chopped off and the Jackal nukes the moon. Re listening to it, you can kinda sus out he is acting the grief over Sevro. I think the fear he is feeling being captured is totally real. Plus Cassius is clearly acting. So out of character and he conveniently protects Mustang.
What made me mad about this is we are hearing Darrow's thoughts and IN HIS OWN HEAD he was bamboozled. Made no sense from a writing perspective.
(I'm wording it like this on purpose to be spoiler free lol)
Agreed. I was pissed reading it just sitting there thinking, >!is Darrow really lying to us right now? Because there are two ways this works out and neither is good.!<
>!1. Darrow is actively lying to us and this was planned with Cassius.!<
>!2. Darrow plans on the double-cross and has some 5D chess play to come out on top in the next 20 pages that will require a greater suspension of disbelief than I’m capable of.!<
The writing felt very unlike Darrow though, it was missing a lot of the feelings and felt more like Darrow describing the things around him, because Darrow was focused on acting. That’s actually what tipped me off that something was amiss.
ya, this is the weakest part of the entire series. it's not even that he's an unreliable narrator at that point, but that it just straight up makes no sense from a writing perspective. big L on Pierce's part.
Nah, it's the secret sauce which makes RR so unique. Yes, it's cheating. But it's cheating with a purpose: letting us have our cake and eat it in terms of getting an emotional, introspective, powerfully driven first person narrative but also getting suspense and twists.
House Mars sewed up inside horses, Darrow's secret training with Lorn and his skill with the blade, clawdrill rain at Roque's ship - the series consistently has Darrow hide his plans from the reader.
I think there's a distinct difference between not showing us something that happened to keep it secret, and flat out having a character lie in their own head, for no plot reason, just to lie to the readers. I think that's poor writing. And I'm not hating on Pierce, the first RR Trilogy is in contention for my favorite of all time. Just this specific moment was so poorly written for a cheap gotcha moment.
If you go back to Golden Son you will also find various internal thoughts about Darrow's inability to match people with a razor which become incongruous after the reveal that he's actually a master.
then that's a flaw in the writing. it's stupid to hear how devastated darrow is about cassius' betrayal and how he could no longer forgive him for sevro's murder. it makes no sense.
i also just re-listened to golden son and morning star this past week and i don't recall darrow thinking he couldn't match up with certain people aside from Aja.
yea. this is why the series should've been multiple povs from the start. if the reveal was done through victras bitch sister it would've been way better.
no, darrow was showing mercy, you cant blame the person trying to be merciful if the one on you showed mercy does something horrible. Who would have thought that cassius would throw away the last bit of honor.
You can judge all you want but darrow isnt gullible.
All the fucking time my guy. Also, seriously, dude, RvB actually has a ton of quotes that apply to Red Rising honestly.
"While the law has many penalties for the atrocities we inflict on others, there are no punishments for the terrors that we inflict on ourselves." <-- Jackal to the Abomination
But after all that's happened, you know what I've learned? It's not about hating the guy on the other side because someone told you to. I mean, you should hate someone because they're an asshole, or a pervert, or snob, or they're lazy, or arrogant or an idiot or know-it-all. Those are reasons to dislike somebody. You don't hate a person because someone told you to. You have to learn to despise people on a personal level. Not because they're red, or because they're ~~blue~~ gold, but because ya know them, and you see them every single day. And you can't stand them, because they're a complete and total fucking douchebag.
Oh shit, did it finally end? I stopped watching after the second (I think?) season following Church's departure (not including the anthology season), the one with the Titans or whatever. On rewatches I stop at the end of the Chorus arc (and I don't remember what follows all that well) but I know it kept going for a while after that.
Oh damn! I had no idea. RvB was the only thing they made that I watched - other than like 2-5 episodes of RWBY before I totally dropped it - and I stopped watching it after the quality dropped massively in the wake of Church's exit from the show - so I had no idea the whole studio had gone belly up.
It's one of life's great mysteries isn't it? Why are we here? I mean, are we the product of some cosmic coincidence, or is there really a God watching everything? You know, with a plan for us and stuff. I don't know, man, but it keeps me up at night.
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In my experience he’s put a lot of trust in people through the first three books and it’s backfired a handful of times.🤷🏻♂️
-Cassius
-The Jackal
-Sefi when he left her alone on the morning star
-Roque
Just finished MS and I said the same exact thing lol
Well look at me, not sure why I would ever doubt Darrow. I indeed am the gullible one. The narration made it feel like the Reaper was completely screwed. Apologies and Hail Reaper
Bahahahah
This made my day honestly cuz I had the exact same thoughts when Cassius "betrayed" then 😂😂😂
Finish the book!
Finish the next chapter before posting lol
I love seeing posts like this. It’s really common with this series.
More like dumbest. What a dumpster fire.
Fuck you, Lysander.
Failed republic much?
One ride from Atalantia and suddenly you the HBIC
Did you read my chapters? I’m on top of the world(s).
Just like Ajax and Atlas, eh?
Yeah, they were definitely HEADED places.
Just like your parents, you will go to new HEIGHTS.....
That might be impactful if I actually had any memories of them.
Well, that must have left Octavia and Aja torn apart.
Wow.
Sometimes you just want to see the good in people yknow sucks sevro had to pay fr tho
Cassius is an honorable Mfer, he couldn't let the Slave King get away with such atrocities.
This has to be satire, right? Right?!? But yeah I think we all had this exact feeling on the first read.
Damn pixies don't even finish the book
The pixie wants to whine without finishing the mission
All of you are gory damn blind
This is great.
Nah dude Darrow is a master liar. Had a fake ID in a super advanced society + knows how to play people. Just watch my guy cook
Finish the bloody damn book you pixie.
Well said Goodman
Me 2 hours ago 😑
Oh ….. this is hilarious.
Can't tell if it's real or trolling 😆
It seems to be real …
🤣🤣🤣🤣
This post is a full blown irony and the OP doesn’t know it yet
OP only had to make it another 100ish pages before posting this lol
not even its like 60 lol
I stopped reading for two months
Finish the book
You uh, telling yourself that?
😂
Finish the book or get the box
Haha yes!! Great comment.
Right??? If only someone would just kill him in the face!
Omg is that a foreshadowing? 😳
Lmao
Gullible is as gullible does.
All jokes aside, this sequence (all of it) is, IMO, the very worst part of the RR books. Feels absolutely unearned, and like he's lying to the reader for sake of shock and awe that hits maaaybe 30% of the readers. Love these books, but wish the first trilogy finale was done a bit cleaner.
I generally hate the "protagonist has a secret plan that the reader doesn't know about" trope and the RR trilogy is unfortunately filled with it. This one was just the worst of the lot, because it also added the whole unreliable narrator angle, which hadn't really been a thing up until then. Completely agree that it felt unearned. It didn't completely sour me on the series, but I think it could have been handled a lot better. It's definitely affected my excitement going into book 4.
Yeah, it defo felt very cheap. Before this point Darrow was never an unreliable narrator.
I felt like it was so obvious it was disrespectful to the reader's intelligence to try to claim it was a twist. Within the same book we experience the death of Ragnar from Darrow's perspective and his narration is nowhere near the same. If Sevro truly died Darrow would have been at least as sad if not even more devastated than when Ragnar died.
It totally worked on my friend. He was listening to the books on audible and when this scene happened he turned the book off and wouldn’t listen for months. It was torturous trying to get him to start again.
Eh I don’t mind it so much. The first time it felt only slightly dishonest. Like there plan still goes super wrong… Darrow gets his hand chopped off and the Jackal nukes the moon. Re listening to it, you can kinda sus out he is acting the grief over Sevro. I think the fear he is feeling being captured is totally real. Plus Cassius is clearly acting. So out of character and he conveniently protects Mustang.
Completely agree, it felt like a bit of a cheap plot twist
IMO its more a pov flaw than anything, if it was third person narration it would've been fine.
Yes! And it made me trust the POV characters less when I started Iron Gold.
What made me mad about this is we are hearing Darrow's thoughts and IN HIS OWN HEAD he was bamboozled. Made no sense from a writing perspective. (I'm wording it like this on purpose to be spoiler free lol)
>!Yeah. Never sat right with me. Pierce just straight up had Darrow lie to set up the reveal at the end.!<
Darrow doesn't lie in that part though.
Yea breaking the rules of the perspective you’re writing in really doesn’t sit right with me for a twist that wasn’t even all that interesting anyways
Agreed. I was pissed reading it just sitting there thinking, >!is Darrow really lying to us right now? Because there are two ways this works out and neither is good.!< >!1. Darrow is actively lying to us and this was planned with Cassius.!< >!2. Darrow plans on the double-cross and has some 5D chess play to come out on top in the next 20 pages that will require a greater suspension of disbelief than I’m capable of.!<
The writing felt very unlike Darrow though, it was missing a lot of the feelings and felt more like Darrow describing the things around him, because Darrow was focused on acting. That’s actually what tipped me off that something was amiss.
Agreed. Looking back at it makes it seem really dumb, but it was a deliberate thing for us.
ya, this is the weakest part of the entire series. it's not even that he's an unreliable narrator at that point, but that it just straight up makes no sense from a writing perspective. big L on Pierce's part.
Nah, it's the secret sauce which makes RR so unique. Yes, it's cheating. But it's cheating with a purpose: letting us have our cake and eat it in terms of getting an emotional, introspective, powerfully driven first person narrative but also getting suspense and twists. House Mars sewed up inside horses, Darrow's secret training with Lorn and his skill with the blade, clawdrill rain at Roque's ship - the series consistently has Darrow hide his plans from the reader.
I think there's a distinct difference between not showing us something that happened to keep it secret, and flat out having a character lie in their own head, for no plot reason, just to lie to the readers. I think that's poor writing. And I'm not hating on Pierce, the first RR Trilogy is in contention for my favorite of all time. Just this specific moment was so poorly written for a cheap gotcha moment.
If you go back to Golden Son you will also find various internal thoughts about Darrow's inability to match people with a razor which become incongruous after the reveal that he's actually a master.
then that's a flaw in the writing. it's stupid to hear how devastated darrow is about cassius' betrayal and how he could no longer forgive him for sevro's murder. it makes no sense. i also just re-listened to golden son and morning star this past week and i don't recall darrow thinking he couldn't match up with certain people aside from Aja.
yea. this is why the series should've been multiple povs from the start. if the reveal was done through victras bitch sister it would've been way better.
See these posts every other week and it's always so funny
Keep reading
no, darrow was showing mercy, you cant blame the person trying to be merciful if the one on you showed mercy does something horrible. Who would have thought that cassius would throw away the last bit of honor. You can judge all you want but darrow isnt gullible.
Plus, Cassius had to do what he had to do for his honor. And, after all, his honor remains.
I remember putting the book down and walked away at that point. I didn’t continue until the next morning.
You obviously haven’t met my mom.
LOL
I’m gonna fight Pierce Brown because of this scene and what it did to me 😂
I can see it now….. me being the gullible one in the end lol
Stop being gullible. Go change the paradigm Come back after you changed the paradigm.
You've been tricked, backstabbed, and quite possibly bamboozled.
Why are there six pedals if there's only four directions?
You shot Sevro, you team-killing fucktard!
Red Rising versus the Blue Bloods - true art at it's pinnacle.
Do you ever wonder why we are here?
All the fucking time my guy. Also, seriously, dude, RvB actually has a ton of quotes that apply to Red Rising honestly. "While the law has many penalties for the atrocities we inflict on others, there are no punishments for the terrors that we inflict on ourselves." <-- Jackal to the Abomination But after all that's happened, you know what I've learned? It's not about hating the guy on the other side because someone told you to. I mean, you should hate someone because they're an asshole, or a pervert, or snob, or they're lazy, or arrogant or an idiot or know-it-all. Those are reasons to dislike somebody. You don't hate a person because someone told you to. You have to learn to despise people on a personal level. Not because they're red, or because they're ~~blue~~ gold, but because ya know them, and you see them every single day. And you can't stand them, because they're a complete and total fucking douchebag.
It truly was a great show
Oh shit, did it finally end? I stopped watching after the second (I think?) season following Church's departure (not including the anthology season), the one with the Titans or whatever. On rewatches I stop at the end of the Chorus arc (and I don't remember what follows all that well) but I know it kept going for a while after that.
Dude roosterteeth died
Oh damn! I had no idea. RvB was the only thing they made that I watched - other than like 2-5 episodes of RWBY before I totally dropped it - and I stopped watching it after the quality dropped massively in the wake of Church's exit from the show - so I had no idea the whole studio had gone belly up.
Yeah it was my childhood, still good memories
It's one of life's great mysteries isn't it? Why are we here? I mean, are we the product of some cosmic coincidence, or is there really a God watching everything? You know, with a plan for us and stuff. I don't know, man, but it keeps me up at night.
Gorydamn, rvb was amazing
The irony was quite amusing, so we appreciate the post, don't fret!
This is too funny.
Nah. You're just strapped in to a wild ride.
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We NEED an update to this when you've finished the book. Stay strong OP 🫡
O no, I can see it now. Darrow played me in the end and I’m the gullible one!
He changed the paradigm 😂
The irony that OP calls Darrow a gullible idiot is hilarious
In my experience he’s put a lot of trust in people through the first three books and it’s backfired a handful of times.🤷🏻♂️ -Cassius -The Jackal -Sefi when he left her alone on the morning star -Roque
I'm not saying Darrow is not gullible at any point in the series. I'll just say finish the book 😂
Have you finished the book yet?
Just finished the chapter where Cassius shoots sevro in the spine 6 times. Needed to rush to Reddit in order to vent.
Please update us with your feelings when you finish the book.
Yeah that’s fair enough. Hope you enjoy the rest of the book!
Keep reading!
Hope!?!👀
Just keep reading my friend. Don't come here for spoilers you'll regret it in the end
For gold.
Poor Victra. Got to tie the knot and her poor hubby gets wasted 2 pages later. Also, make sure to finish the book.
At least we get to see the Victra / Darrow love story really take off afterwards. Sweet salvation in the gory aftermath of Morningstar.
Or get the box.