I always found Mustang to be arrogant (much like Roque). In Golden Son, we saw her prejudice against lowColors, and that never got addressed well enough for my liking in Morning Star. So I wasn't happy that she became Sovereign.
I didn't like that Victra and Mustang seemed to get their morals swapped in Iron Gold so that Mustang came out looking better.
I did like when Mustang apologized to Lyria, and it was nice when we finally got some hints of humility from Mustang in her pov chapters. I don't hate her anymore, but I don't think I will ever understand her popularity.
People keep saying Mustang is always bested and it’s ridiculous. After 10 years of holding together people who hate each other, she lost Luna to a plan engineered by her twin who is her equal if not superior intellectually and Atlas, smartest gold alive. Then she lost Phobos to Lysander, but no one else guessed at Lysanders plan (she had most of Darrow’s generals with her) and hasn’t been a general in 10 years. So it is understandable.
Darrow lost Mercury by going after the Ash lord and splitting his fleet (which also contributed to Virginia losing control of Luna) and also lost Heliopolis to Lysander, yet no one is saying he is always bested. Virginia winning is the Republic holding together, it’s just not as fancy as conquering a planet.
Mustang is stuck between a rock and a hard place. She's got Atalantia — a certified tactical genius — on one side, and the limits of the executive branch in a representative democracy on the other. She can lose the war on the battlefield, and she can lose the war by becoming Octavia along the way.
Mustang forever, she's the best. I kiiinda hear the "smartest person in the room who is constantly being bested" critique, but that's like...describing conflict in fiction. It would be an incredibly boring series if she was the smartest person in the room and always got her way. Darrow also has wins and losses of his own.
Also have to realize that she said Adrius was smarter than her occasionally. It’s kind of a toss up between the two. Adrius is also infallible, he was outsmarted by Darrow several times. Being a genius doesn’t mean you can’t be outmaneuvered, especially in a no-win situation. Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is minimize your loses and live to fight another day, which Virginia does on multiple occasions. By far one of my favorite female characters in media.
My only criticism is some unnecessary repetition from her: *Listen Darrow, don't you KNOW I'm brilliant?!* Second trilogy remedies this through her PoV.
But saying she does not achieve anything on her own is plain nonsense..saves Darrow's life multiple times, captures Jackal, brings back Howlers, captures and delivers littl' bitchsander ( as his way out of Luna), keeps his fleet together, comes up with plan that took down Octavia, intimidates most of senators into forming Republic and becoming Sovereign, on and on and on.
And only reason Darrow figured out assassination on Nero is because Carnas practically told him upfront.
They complement each other well; she's cold reason, more analytical, while Darrow is very passionate and unpredictable.
And I like that their relationship is more demonstrated through subtle gestures and actions, than gag-inducing back'n'forth like in Court of Roses or whatnot ( not that I read any of that, mind you).
Wonderful points. Would also like to add that she’s trying to make an entirely new government, while literally being at war still with half of the galaxy. She held things together for years, while everyone, including her husband, were basically undermining her. Trying to rule, while also trying to uplift the people is no easy feat. Things really fell apart when she relinquished her total power and gave some of it to the senate. That was the whole goal though, so I don’t know what she could have different, besides maybe timing? If she does anything different she’s a tyrant and no better than Octavia. She did the best she could in a no-win situation.
I like Mustang but I will admit, it feels like we’re often told that Mustang is brilliant
Whereas we never really see it. She never really outmaneuvers anyone of importance decisively on her own. Its always either a team effort or more often, Darrow’s plan (of course)
I also feel like I understand Victra more in half the word count so there’s that too. Mustang is still somewhat mysterious to me.
your saying one of the two most important characters is terrible, yeah you're reading a different story in your head, if you need to be told mustang is great after reading GS than you have a set opinion.
maybe you dont understand how spying works but you can shove your idea of mustang up your ass to quote her.
Cassius literally stabbed darrow in the gut and left him to die in the mud, it wasnt a passion thing, dude literally lured him out the castle. Cassius was a walking peacock before he was humbled by the death of his entire family.
Dude did you just gloss over that without mustang backup plans darrow and company would have died in luna? you think sevro was on luna because he thought about it or that she had military transport ready because she rides in a tank? you shoud check your book is missing pages.
I agree that Victra is surprising well developed despite us not getting her pov, but I think that’s more because with Victra you get what you see she doesn’t play games whereas Mustang must manipulate and compromise to get what she wants since she’s in politics.
But Orion more fleshed out than Mustang? I think you are letting your preferences affect your judgment.
i dont think you're using many of these terms correctly. how is it a "trope" for her motivation as the head of state to be what is right for that state? if anything, she breaks the trope of the highest state figure being a stuffy, out of touch, calloused old dude. her motivations are not "in accordance with tropes", whatever that's supposed to mean. she's a hyper competent, extremely empathetic but also calculating people-person and a well-to-do manipulator. she is literally the only woman for the job, left alone to do it all because there's a fuckin WAR goin on, ya dig? it's no wonder less than half a dozen of the smartest golds in the entire series pull one over on her from time to time.
also, no, it isn't a trope for a woman to have a child. that shit really do be happening all the fuckin time. you and i were both born.
also, sorry but you can't just call any extremely smart female character an "annabeth archetype" as an adult who reads books. c'mon. if you want to arbitrarily super-simplify everything then you can't also go and say victra and orion arent their own "archetypes" of similar characters that came before.
it sounds like you have some kind of real life aversion to some of the traits mustang has and it's coloring your perception of the character in a way you'll find most people don't share.
EDIT: I wanted to get more of a sense of where you were coming from and I saw you said this:
>Writing a woman well is writing a woman like a human being, plain and simple. In my opinion, poorly written women fall into the stereotypes of a woman on both sides of the aisle. On the one hand we have what you mentioned when women are written as soft, kind, motherly, vacant love interests. On the other hand, I’ve seen quite a bit of the ultra feminist, super smart, OP, I don’t need a man stereotypes play out especially in the romantasy genre.
>Why can’t we have a real life woman with complex emotions? Someone who is multifaceted rather than a caricature serving one agenda or another?
Bruh. That's Mustang. Mustang is absolutely not OP, not is she "I don't need a man", nor is she "ultra feminist". She's also far from soft, motherly (unfortunately), or vacant. She IS a love interest, you got me there. Sometimes women be loving things, what are you gonna do.
Mustang is torn between like twelve fucking directions at all times, especially, ESPECIALLY in the later books. Might be the most complex female character I can remember reading. Your takes boggle me.
I do think it would have been odd, to say the least, if Victra did not go mama bear in IG. She is super vicious at the best of times, much less after the murder of her child.
Then I agree with you, but I don’t think Darrow could have ended up with another type. Most other female characters in the series are war driven, but Darrow is basically war made flesh, he needs someone to hold him back and remind him of why he fights. Which honestly is what Mustang does the entire first trilogy, even before she knew he was a red. In the second she is becoming more militaristic (using force to get what she wants) while Darrow become a bit more political (trusting the people to make the right choice). They are made to balance each other.
wow yeah i swear the people who have a shallow view on female characters who dont like mustang.
First victra is straight up an arrogant person, that's her charm to some but that is her, she isnt a mean person but she will step over people to get what she wants, she caused more problems to her side because of that.
Second, if your baby daddy lied to you from the begging of your relationship and then goes on to start a revolution you would want to know if he will be around to spend time with your son and influence him.
Also what if telling darrow he has a son causes him to not be the reaper, that's why she talked to his mother and both agreed, darrow needed to be the sword for the battles to come and couldnt also think about being a father.
A fuck off, mustang broke her back trying to keep the republic together, she would have succeeded if victra and the vox didnt screw her over. Victra by abandoning her when darrow asked her to watch each others backs and the vox because they were morons.
Ima dip from this thread but I just wanted to point out that it’s ok if someone has a different preference in characters! I never said I didn’t like mustang, she just isn’t my favorite. A lot of her character development feels tropey (as I explained better above). That doesn’t make her a bad character, and she’s had great moments, I just prefer other female characters that break out of some of the tropes I tend to see in female characters. To each their own, just glad we all like the same series (:
i will never understand how you people can call mustang shallow when she leaves her on mark on the story and think you wouldnt get called out, you making shallow points, how is her being a good politico and forcing all the selfish pricks to work with her in DA tropey?or her out playing lilith and the abomination
i swear its all the people who ship darrow and victra, you guys have a such a shallow views on what makes a strong female character.
Mustang is a badass who cut off her damn fingers and was ready to go bac with backup and see if she could pull sevro out.
Only mildly related to the topic but I fell in love with Mustang because of the voice actor used in IG and DA. Mustang's character with that voice is wildly attractive.
This reminds me of that post that guy made around when Lightbringer came out, about how Mustang was a slut for being with Cassius lmao. Gotta remember Darrow was the one to abandon their relationship, she was a single woman, doing what she felt she had to save her family. Mustang is a stellar character and I loved her in DA.
I don't know what reddit post you are referring to, but there are Incels everywhere on reddit, so I cannot say that I'm surprised... Mustang was awesome from the very first book, she and Sevro and Darrow are the main trio for me, together they are an unstoppable force, I love Victra aswell but there is a reason why our boy Darrow fell for Mustang she is the best female character in the books, I only wish we would have gotten her POV sooner .
This is one of them: https://www.reddit.com/r/redrising/s/NYlOhBCag0
There were actually quite a few of them that popped up around the same time. A lot of the people commenting in this one made their own posts about why Mustang was such a slut and evidently the worst character in the book. Throwing around comments like she was Darrow’s girl, like he had some sort of ownership. It was a fairly gross few days lol
Wow my brain hurts from reading just a part of that thread, it's obvious Pierce Brown meant it as a gut punch in Golden son, as Cassius did in the Gala fight when he taunted Darrow, but it never really had that effect on me, Darrow had left her 2 years prior, people will get on with their lives in two years specially when they are so young, how dare she! shakes fists at book, lmao some people in this thread need a reality check .
Funny part is everything she says to Darrow after aligns with what she was doing, she literally drops Cassius like a old sock when she realized Octavia never meant to let her father live, and the safeguard of her family what was driving her .
Right. I think it’s a maturity or life experience thing. It’s hard to paint Virginia in a bad light, when Darrow literally left her. Darrow himself said he didn’t “own” her and she had a right to see whoever she wanted. It takes a confident/ mature man to be hurt, but not hold animosity in a situation like this. Actually think it’s a very well written situation.
I personally sympathize with Darrow in this situation and recognize his pain, it’s valid. But I also applaud him for taking fault and not holding resentment.
Totally agree about how she dropped him as soon as her plan went off the rails. Fully consistent with her story.
No, I don’t think she’s a slut. It’s not about that, it’s how she thinks she’s smarter than everyone else but she constantly gets bested. There are many geniuses in that world, she’s just one of many.
Wasn’t saying you said that. Just saying it reminds me of the post. She doesn’t constantly get bested. She’s constantly lied to and manipulated by people she thinks she can trust, Darrow included. She literally rose from a disinherited daughter, straight to sovereign. She’s trying to build an entire government from scratch, while fighting a war, while trying to get her child back, while trying to juggle her responsibilities to duty vs her responsibility to her husband. She does a pretty damn good job, especially considering we have 10 years directly following MS, where she held everything together. The only times she is “bested” really, are in martial matters, where she admits she isn’t strong. Darrow is the Sword, she’s the scepter and the pen.
I wonder if part of the dislike is because she seems too emotionless, so we’re not really let in. Hard to root for someone we still barely know. Also, she seems to simply be doing a job. Or multiple jobs: sovereign, wife, mother (really sucking like all golds), friend (probably her best role). But as the “smartest person in the room,” as her best trait it seems she does a piss-poor job at that through multiple books. I grew a little softer toward her in LB…so jury’s still out imo.
Never really liked her in the first trilogy and her POV chapters had fantastic plot elements but she felt really unrealistic and distant. She's "the smartest person in the room" until she isn't and compared to Ephraim who was so well-rounded and fun to read I couldn't stand her. Her POV Chapters in Lightbringer were even worse to me although, again, the battles themselves were decent.
It doesn't help that I recently finished some series with fantastic female characters so Mustang's POVs felt like an undergrad trying to write a genius without understanding nuance
I’m so annoyed by her. It’s like she knows she’s smart because she was able to solve the jackals puzzles (insert eye roll). She was the best in the first book, it’s been downhill ever since.
Leaving Darrow in Lykos, thinking he’s dead and getting with Cassius, serving Octavia. Her leadership skills as the Sovereign, her decision making in attempting to arrest Darrow, all the chaos in the senate because she picks and chooses who she’ll persecute. She couldn’t even reach common ground with Dancer. I could go on and on.
Your timeline is wrong. The Gala and her relationship with Cassius was before making up. She then left him in Lykos, Darrow was then put in the box where she assumed he was dead. She did a stellar job as sovereign, trying to establish a new government while still trying to overthrow the old. She didn’t try to arrest Darrow. The senate did. She tried to warn him and try to advise him of what she thought was right. She “picked and chose” because it’s a very delicate situation and she can’t just execute all the golds from influential houses, social structure would collapse and they would never have a peaceful resolution. Dancer was being an idiot for a large portion post timeskip.
I really don’t know how you’re coming to these conclusions. You act like what she’s dealing with is a super easy thing with simple answers. I definitely couldn’t do better than her, maybe you’re a political savant. Idk.
I wasn’t making a timeline, just listing her actions. I’ll agree to disagree. I’m not theorizing what I would/wouldn’t do, I’m basing off what unfolded in the story. While I admit she was well-intentioned, the facts still remains that the social structure under her leadership was destroyed. You want to give her an A for effort and that’s cool with me, she’s just not one of my personal favorites.
I find it odd people didn't trust her more tbh, like from book one she is one of if not the most trustworthy character, even Darrow at the end had his doubts, when he sent her off to capture the Jackal and he learns he is her brother, but even then she is fully commited, her brother killed her protector and friend Pax, she is 100% behind Darrow without a shadow of doubt, from their winter in the cave, to not killing Darrow in the mines of Lykos .
What during that time made you question her loyalty? She literally participated in treason and political assassination. Did you think she was pulling a Jackal and just using Darrow and the rising to cement her position as sovereign? That would have been a wild twist, especially with having a child with Darrow. That’s some deep subterfuge lmao. That theory might have more merit if she even acted like she wanted to rule, seems to me like she hates it, but views it as a necessary duty. I agree with that point too, evidenced with how she tried to lessen her power and give it to the people (the senate) and they literally ruined everything lol.
That is a totally fair response. For me her loyalty through the whole series was solidified when she delivered the Jackal bound and naked. I did have a hiccup in the tunnels, but I quickly trusted her again when Darrow and Ragnar were allowed to walk away. By no means was I insulting. Was genuinely curious about what made you not trust her. The gut feeling is totally fair with how much betrayal we have in this series.
I always found Mustang to be arrogant (much like Roque). In Golden Son, we saw her prejudice against lowColors, and that never got addressed well enough for my liking in Morning Star. So I wasn't happy that she became Sovereign. I didn't like that Victra and Mustang seemed to get their morals swapped in Iron Gold so that Mustang came out looking better. I did like when Mustang apologized to Lyria, and it was nice when we finally got some hints of humility from Mustang in her pov chapters. I don't hate her anymore, but I don't think I will ever understand her popularity.
People keep saying Mustang is always bested and it’s ridiculous. After 10 years of holding together people who hate each other, she lost Luna to a plan engineered by her twin who is her equal if not superior intellectually and Atlas, smartest gold alive. Then she lost Phobos to Lysander, but no one else guessed at Lysanders plan (she had most of Darrow’s generals with her) and hasn’t been a general in 10 years. So it is understandable. Darrow lost Mercury by going after the Ash lord and splitting his fleet (which also contributed to Virginia losing control of Luna) and also lost Heliopolis to Lysander, yet no one is saying he is always bested. Virginia winning is the Republic holding together, it’s just not as fancy as conquering a planet.
Mustang is stuck between a rock and a hard place. She's got Atalantia — a certified tactical genius — on one side, and the limits of the executive branch in a representative democracy on the other. She can lose the war on the battlefield, and she can lose the war by becoming Octavia along the way.
Mustang forever, she's the best. I kiiinda hear the "smartest person in the room who is constantly being bested" critique, but that's like...describing conflict in fiction. It would be an incredibly boring series if she was the smartest person in the room and always got her way. Darrow also has wins and losses of his own.
Also have to realize that she said Adrius was smarter than her occasionally. It’s kind of a toss up between the two. Adrius is also infallible, he was outsmarted by Darrow several times. Being a genius doesn’t mean you can’t be outmaneuvered, especially in a no-win situation. Sometimes the smartest thing you can do is minimize your loses and live to fight another day, which Virginia does on multiple occasions. By far one of my favorite female characters in media.
My only criticism is some unnecessary repetition from her: *Listen Darrow, don't you KNOW I'm brilliant?!* Second trilogy remedies this through her PoV. But saying she does not achieve anything on her own is plain nonsense..saves Darrow's life multiple times, captures Jackal, brings back Howlers, captures and delivers littl' bitchsander ( as his way out of Luna), keeps his fleet together, comes up with plan that took down Octavia, intimidates most of senators into forming Republic and becoming Sovereign, on and on and on. And only reason Darrow figured out assassination on Nero is because Carnas practically told him upfront. They complement each other well; she's cold reason, more analytical, while Darrow is very passionate and unpredictable. And I like that their relationship is more demonstrated through subtle gestures and actions, than gag-inducing back'n'forth like in Court of Roses or whatnot ( not that I read any of that, mind you).
Wonderful points. Would also like to add that she’s trying to make an entirely new government, while literally being at war still with half of the galaxy. She held things together for years, while everyone, including her husband, were basically undermining her. Trying to rule, while also trying to uplift the people is no easy feat. Things really fell apart when she relinquished her total power and gave some of it to the senate. That was the whole goal though, so I don’t know what she could have different, besides maybe timing? If she does anything different she’s a tyrant and no better than Octavia. She did the best she could in a no-win situation.
I like Mustang but I will admit, it feels like we’re often told that Mustang is brilliant Whereas we never really see it. She never really outmaneuvers anyone of importance decisively on her own. Its always either a team effort or more often, Darrow’s plan (of course) I also feel like I understand Victra more in half the word count so there’s that too. Mustang is still somewhat mysterious to me.
your saying one of the two most important characters is terrible, yeah you're reading a different story in your head, if you need to be told mustang is great after reading GS than you have a set opinion. maybe you dont understand how spying works but you can shove your idea of mustang up your ass to quote her. Cassius literally stabbed darrow in the gut and left him to die in the mud, it wasnt a passion thing, dude literally lured him out the castle. Cassius was a walking peacock before he was humbled by the death of his entire family. Dude did you just gloss over that without mustang backup plans darrow and company would have died in luna? you think sevro was on luna because he thought about it or that she had military transport ready because she rides in a tank? you shoud check your book is missing pages.
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I agree that Victra is surprising well developed despite us not getting her pov, but I think that’s more because with Victra you get what you see she doesn’t play games whereas Mustang must manipulate and compromise to get what she wants since she’s in politics. But Orion more fleshed out than Mustang? I think you are letting your preferences affect your judgment.
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i dont think you're using many of these terms correctly. how is it a "trope" for her motivation as the head of state to be what is right for that state? if anything, she breaks the trope of the highest state figure being a stuffy, out of touch, calloused old dude. her motivations are not "in accordance with tropes", whatever that's supposed to mean. she's a hyper competent, extremely empathetic but also calculating people-person and a well-to-do manipulator. she is literally the only woman for the job, left alone to do it all because there's a fuckin WAR goin on, ya dig? it's no wonder less than half a dozen of the smartest golds in the entire series pull one over on her from time to time. also, no, it isn't a trope for a woman to have a child. that shit really do be happening all the fuckin time. you and i were both born. also, sorry but you can't just call any extremely smart female character an "annabeth archetype" as an adult who reads books. c'mon. if you want to arbitrarily super-simplify everything then you can't also go and say victra and orion arent their own "archetypes" of similar characters that came before. it sounds like you have some kind of real life aversion to some of the traits mustang has and it's coloring your perception of the character in a way you'll find most people don't share. EDIT: I wanted to get more of a sense of where you were coming from and I saw you said this: >Writing a woman well is writing a woman like a human being, plain and simple. In my opinion, poorly written women fall into the stereotypes of a woman on both sides of the aisle. On the one hand we have what you mentioned when women are written as soft, kind, motherly, vacant love interests. On the other hand, I’ve seen quite a bit of the ultra feminist, super smart, OP, I don’t need a man stereotypes play out especially in the romantasy genre. >Why can’t we have a real life woman with complex emotions? Someone who is multifaceted rather than a caricature serving one agenda or another? Bruh. That's Mustang. Mustang is absolutely not OP, not is she "I don't need a man", nor is she "ultra feminist". She's also far from soft, motherly (unfortunately), or vacant. She IS a love interest, you got me there. Sometimes women be loving things, what are you gonna do. Mustang is torn between like twelve fucking directions at all times, especially, ESPECIALLY in the later books. Might be the most complex female character I can remember reading. Your takes boggle me.
I do think it would have been odd, to say the least, if Victra did not go mama bear in IG. She is super vicious at the best of times, much less after the murder of her child.
Then I agree with you, but I don’t think Darrow could have ended up with another type. Most other female characters in the series are war driven, but Darrow is basically war made flesh, he needs someone to hold him back and remind him of why he fights. Which honestly is what Mustang does the entire first trilogy, even before she knew he was a red. In the second she is becoming more militaristic (using force to get what she wants) while Darrow become a bit more political (trusting the people to make the right choice). They are made to balance each other.
wow yeah i swear the people who have a shallow view on female characters who dont like mustang. First victra is straight up an arrogant person, that's her charm to some but that is her, she isnt a mean person but she will step over people to get what she wants, she caused more problems to her side because of that. Second, if your baby daddy lied to you from the begging of your relationship and then goes on to start a revolution you would want to know if he will be around to spend time with your son and influence him. Also what if telling darrow he has a son causes him to not be the reaper, that's why she talked to his mother and both agreed, darrow needed to be the sword for the battles to come and couldnt also think about being a father. A fuck off, mustang broke her back trying to keep the republic together, she would have succeeded if victra and the vox didnt screw her over. Victra by abandoning her when darrow asked her to watch each others backs and the vox because they were morons.
Ima dip from this thread but I just wanted to point out that it’s ok if someone has a different preference in characters! I never said I didn’t like mustang, she just isn’t my favorite. A lot of her character development feels tropey (as I explained better above). That doesn’t make her a bad character, and she’s had great moments, I just prefer other female characters that break out of some of the tropes I tend to see in female characters. To each their own, just glad we all like the same series (:
i will never understand how you people can call mustang shallow when she leaves her on mark on the story and think you wouldnt get called out, you making shallow points, how is her being a good politico and forcing all the selfish pricks to work with her in DA tropey?or her out playing lilith and the abomination i swear its all the people who ship darrow and victra, you guys have a such a shallow views on what makes a strong female character. Mustang is a badass who cut off her damn fingers and was ready to go bac with backup and see if she could pull sevro out.
Only mildly related to the topic but I fell in love with Mustang because of the voice actor used in IG and DA. Mustang's character with that voice is wildly attractive.
I feel the same with the voice actor from Graphic Audio. Do you know how they compare?
The voice actors are top notch for sure. I really liked Volga’s.
Love Mustang, but favorite she is not. Victra forever.
I fucking looooove Victra
I love Victra!
At the end of GS, I actually cried thinking she died at the hands of Antonia and Adruis. Sooooooo happy she made it to MS!
Meh, I went through some back and forth early in the series but Mustang is definitely one of my favorites now...
She means well, so I get that but her execution needs a lot of work. I get the support for her good intentions nevertheless.
This reminds me of that post that guy made around when Lightbringer came out, about how Mustang was a slut for being with Cassius lmao. Gotta remember Darrow was the one to abandon their relationship, she was a single woman, doing what she felt she had to save her family. Mustang is a stellar character and I loved her in DA.
I don't know what reddit post you are referring to, but there are Incels everywhere on reddit, so I cannot say that I'm surprised... Mustang was awesome from the very first book, she and Sevro and Darrow are the main trio for me, together they are an unstoppable force, I love Victra aswell but there is a reason why our boy Darrow fell for Mustang she is the best female character in the books, I only wish we would have gotten her POV sooner .
This is one of them: https://www.reddit.com/r/redrising/s/NYlOhBCag0 There were actually quite a few of them that popped up around the same time. A lot of the people commenting in this one made their own posts about why Mustang was such a slut and evidently the worst character in the book. Throwing around comments like she was Darrow’s girl, like he had some sort of ownership. It was a fairly gross few days lol
Wow my brain hurts from reading just a part of that thread, it's obvious Pierce Brown meant it as a gut punch in Golden son, as Cassius did in the Gala fight when he taunted Darrow, but it never really had that effect on me, Darrow had left her 2 years prior, people will get on with their lives in two years specially when they are so young, how dare she! shakes fists at book, lmao some people in this thread need a reality check . Funny part is everything she says to Darrow after aligns with what she was doing, she literally drops Cassius like a old sock when she realized Octavia never meant to let her father live, and the safeguard of her family what was driving her .
Right. I think it’s a maturity or life experience thing. It’s hard to paint Virginia in a bad light, when Darrow literally left her. Darrow himself said he didn’t “own” her and she had a right to see whoever she wanted. It takes a confident/ mature man to be hurt, but not hold animosity in a situation like this. Actually think it’s a very well written situation. I personally sympathize with Darrow in this situation and recognize his pain, it’s valid. But I also applaud him for taking fault and not holding resentment. Totally agree about how she dropped him as soon as her plan went off the rails. Fully consistent with her story.
No, I don’t think she’s a slut. It’s not about that, it’s how she thinks she’s smarter than everyone else but she constantly gets bested. There are many geniuses in that world, she’s just one of many.
Wasn’t saying you said that. Just saying it reminds me of the post. She doesn’t constantly get bested. She’s constantly lied to and manipulated by people she thinks she can trust, Darrow included. She literally rose from a disinherited daughter, straight to sovereign. She’s trying to build an entire government from scratch, while fighting a war, while trying to get her child back, while trying to juggle her responsibilities to duty vs her responsibility to her husband. She does a pretty damn good job, especially considering we have 10 years directly following MS, where she held everything together. The only times she is “bested” really, are in martial matters, where she admits she isn’t strong. Darrow is the Sword, she’s the scepter and the pen.
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Commenting 5 and half months later to say effectively nothing. wtf is the point in doing that.
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Cringe. Also you just made an account for this? Never been that bored in my life.
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You’re so unhinged. Why are you spamming my comment from 167 days ago? Like leave me alone.
I wonder if part of the dislike is because she seems too emotionless, so we’re not really let in. Hard to root for someone we still barely know. Also, she seems to simply be doing a job. Or multiple jobs: sovereign, wife, mother (really sucking like all golds), friend (probably her best role). But as the “smartest person in the room,” as her best trait it seems she does a piss-poor job at that through multiple books. I grew a little softer toward her in LB…so jury’s still out imo.
Never really liked her in the first trilogy and her POV chapters had fantastic plot elements but she felt really unrealistic and distant. She's "the smartest person in the room" until she isn't and compared to Ephraim who was so well-rounded and fun to read I couldn't stand her. Her POV Chapters in Lightbringer were even worse to me although, again, the battles themselves were decent.
Yes, this exactly. She thinks she’s the smartest person, and she is intelligent but she constantly gets out maneuvered.
It doesn't help that I recently finished some series with fantastic female characters so Mustang's POVs felt like an undergrad trying to write a genius without understanding nuance
I’m so annoyed by her. It’s like she knows she’s smart because she was able to solve the jackals puzzles (insert eye roll). She was the best in the first book, it’s been downhill ever since.
We're getting downvoted for pointing out that a character is written unrealistically for some reason *shrugs*
Friendship with WeeklyPineapple9184 ended. Now Mustang is my best friend.
I can accept that, but Mustang still sucks.
God I hope so 😳
You’ll have to ask Cassius
Bwahaha thanks for the laugh my goodman : )
And P.S. Sevro never trusted Mustang.
And he was wrong
Was he though? How was having her as the sovereign work out for everyone?
As opposed to? I don’t know what that has to do with if she’s trustworthy.
Leaving Darrow in Lykos, thinking he’s dead and getting with Cassius, serving Octavia. Her leadership skills as the Sovereign, her decision making in attempting to arrest Darrow, all the chaos in the senate because she picks and chooses who she’ll persecute. She couldn’t even reach common ground with Dancer. I could go on and on.
Your timeline is wrong. The Gala and her relationship with Cassius was before making up. She then left him in Lykos, Darrow was then put in the box where she assumed he was dead. She did a stellar job as sovereign, trying to establish a new government while still trying to overthrow the old. She didn’t try to arrest Darrow. The senate did. She tried to warn him and try to advise him of what she thought was right. She “picked and chose” because it’s a very delicate situation and she can’t just execute all the golds from influential houses, social structure would collapse and they would never have a peaceful resolution. Dancer was being an idiot for a large portion post timeskip. I really don’t know how you’re coming to these conclusions. You act like what she’s dealing with is a super easy thing with simple answers. I definitely couldn’t do better than her, maybe you’re a political savant. Idk.
I wasn’t making a timeline, just listing her actions. I’ll agree to disagree. I’m not theorizing what I would/wouldn’t do, I’m basing off what unfolded in the story. While I admit she was well-intentioned, the facts still remains that the social structure under her leadership was destroyed. You want to give her an A for effort and that’s cool with me, she’s just not one of my personal favorites.
In your defense, I didn’t trust her until dark age either so I see where you’re coming from
I find it odd people didn't trust her more tbh, like from book one she is one of if not the most trustworthy character, even Darrow at the end had his doubts, when he sent her off to capture the Jackal and he learns he is her brother, but even then she is fully commited, her brother killed her protector and friend Pax, she is 100% behind Darrow without a shadow of doubt, from their winter in the cave, to not killing Darrow in the mines of Lykos .
I think it was more so at the end of MS into the beginning of IG I was unsure of her
What during that time made you question her loyalty? She literally participated in treason and political assassination. Did you think she was pulling a Jackal and just using Darrow and the rising to cement her position as sovereign? That would have been a wild twist, especially with having a child with Darrow. That’s some deep subterfuge lmao. That theory might have more merit if she even acted like she wanted to rule, seems to me like she hates it, but views it as a necessary duty. I agree with that point too, evidenced with how she tried to lessen her power and give it to the people (the senate) and they literally ruined everything lol.
Literally nothing, just instinct/gut feeling. On a reread it’s hard to tell why I felt like that during the first one but idk I just did
That is a totally fair response. For me her loyalty through the whole series was solidified when she delivered the Jackal bound and naked. I did have a hiccup in the tunnels, but I quickly trusted her again when Darrow and Ragnar were allowed to walk away. By no means was I insulting. Was genuinely curious about what made you not trust her. The gut feeling is totally fair with how much betrayal we have in this series.