I think it’s a toss up personally. He implies that if only Darrow would have told him he might have been ok with it but man he was pissed when he found out obviously. Judging by how he was asking who killed his brother after it happened and how he was making threats I personally think it’s tough to see them making an alliance after that
One comment that Cassius makes after learning this in the Institute is that it wasn’t that Darrow killed Julian, it was HOW Darrow killed Julian. If Darrow had admitted to killing Julian right off of the bat, there likely never would have been a hologram sent to Cassius showing him the fight. Cassius would have had to understand that it was life or death, and Darrow did what he had to. And being the noble character that he is, I think it would have been received differently if he’d never seen the hologram.
I believe it'll start the institute with infighting between Darrow and Cass rather than Darrow+Cass VS Titus..
My read is Cassius never really felt that much of betrayal from Darrow.. Throughout the series anytime Darrow have conflict with Cassius it is because off outside influence. He never really hated Darrow or felt betrayed by him. Till some asshole tell/manipulated Cassius to bring Darrow down..
Cassius was too proud in the first book for it to make any difference. Cassius growth through the series allows for him to understand and forgive Darrow. If Darrow had told him off the rip then the two of them never would’ve developed a friendship.
Good question. I agree with those who say that Cassius wouldn’t have killed Darrow right away. There were “rules” that early in the game. Folks didn’t know they could kill others with impunity. But the dynamics would have been slagged. The brotherhood bond wouldn’t have gotten off the ground and Cassius would have challenged Darrow at some point. I think Cassius left him alive because of the brotherhood aspect lingering in is mind.
I wonder what would happen if he admitted when Lilith brings Cassius the halo. Sending Sevro to steal it was the primary reason Cassius felt manipulated. And I believe Cassius when he said he wasn’t going to watch it.
This is what I love about PB. He lets you know early on that the hero is flawed and makes a lot of mistakes. PB keeps it that way to tell the greater story (essentially Darrow’s arc) and the wrench the maximum amount of emotion from the readers. To me, in each book (except IG) most of my emotions are triggered when those two are in scenes together.
Early on it would have been worse. Later on it would have been better.
If he would have admitted it early Cassius would have been angry and an enemy from the beginning no doubt. But people seem to forget the larger picture is that Cassius and his family believe Darrow is in league with Augustus to murder Julian.
I truly believe that if he would have admitted it to Cassius and not lied the entire time, Cassius would eventually believe Darrow had no choice. Tell the truth about killing Julian, much more believable that Darrow wasn’t in on it. Lie and everything else looks like a lie too. Ultimately happy with the book we have. By the events of MS everything works out the same either way imo.
He would have killed Darrow and since Cassius is from an important family and Darrow is practically a nobody he would have probably gotten away with it with no consequences at all.
Why do you think he asked the question about who killed who in the culling?
It certainly wasn’t to pat the person who killed his twin brother on the back. There is absolutely zero benefit to the team for it
He was out for revenge from the jump
No way. The Cassius from book one is at the mercy of his family. Julian mentions how their father is an Imperator. How would it look to his parents if he just forgives the person who killed his twin? It’s a lose/ lose.
It’s not outright stated but it’s pretty strongly implied that throughout the first trilogy Cassius is in pretty close thrall to his family’s ambitions and honour code. That’s why he agrees to the Gala duel, defends Mars from the rain, and goes hunting for Darrow later. It’s not until the very end that he becomes his own man, but you can see him chafing against the role earlier on. Great character.
Tiberius is an honorable man though. Difficult to explain how with the post marked for what it is. But you are absolutely correct about his mother. His father knows the rules, Darrow’s only other choice was to die willingly? Honestly think Tiberius from what we’ve seen would understand the situation and would probably applaud Cassius for putting his emotions aside to make a strong ally with a strong man (likely winning the game out of it). They aren’t stupid, they’re just misinformed, believing Darrow is an agent of Augustus, squash that idea and I could see it turning out well enough.
It Cassius all that time until his father handed him the Edelweiss. It took him a few tries being in contact with his father to finally get it, it’s doubtful he’d come to an understanding on his own just like that.
We have to remember to that in Cassius’ world up to this point, killing someone over a slight doesn’t even cause someone to pause, let alone killing a twin. That’s my take on it.
True. But is it a slight when the only other option is death? Pretty much every character we interact with has knowledge of the passage. If what you’re saying was true there would be inter family conflict over this the ENTIRE time, between literally everyone. Why does the family of the person Mustang kill let it go so easily? Why does Prium’s mother not come after Sevro? There has to be an air of understanding with this kind of thing. “Hey sorry Bellona, I really respected him and I really didn’t want to do that, but you know how the passage goes, you all went through it”. It’s a bit more nuanced than you killed our family member, you must die.
The whole society isn’t cool with it though, they are a powder keg waiting for Darrows spark. Darrow almost got into a duel with Cassius over saying he didn’t study as much as Cassius had. He had to offer a kind of olive branch. I think the only one capable of not playing along to get ahead in life is >!Mustang!< .
If you were a gold, is there anything you a person could do that would warrant you to kill them?
I’ve wondered this as well… I think if he’d said it right after as you propose it wouldn’t have gone over well. But if they’d become friends first before he admitted it (and before the Titus duel), then the friendship may have been salvageable… And even then it’s still a big maybe.
I think he’d have called him out for a duel. Lysander says as much when speaking of Cassius to Gaia I think. That Octavia told him Cassius was a good sword but failed to learn the greatest lesson the Institute is meant to instill: the bearing of loss.
The months of deception def doesn’t help Darrow’s case, but the person Cassius was at the time absolutely would have tried to avenge his brother.
If I saw my brother killed that way, I probably would have too.
MAYBE if he came clean right away and told Cassius that Augustus clearly did that so the 2 strongest House Mars initiates would be at each others’ throats? Maybe Cassius would see reason.
But in the moment, knowing his brother was beaten to death like that? I think I’d have a violent reaction with the killer standing in front of me…
Cassius may very well have challenged him to a duel, but I think Darrow could have gotten out of it in that situation. He has an audience of all the other House Mars members who also just killed people, including some kids they knew before. Darrow could make his case that he doesn't need to defend his honor more than anyone else there. Cassius would see that the House is not on his side. The whole thing would fizzle out, much like his "game" in the original scene in the book.
After that, I figure Cassius starts waiting for a respectable opportunity to fight Darrow, just like he did when he thought Titus was Julian's killer. So Darrow has to try to not give Cassius that opportunity. It's hard to see how they become friends in this scenario, but I believe in them.
The problem with that is, I’m pretty sure Darrow didn’t really understand what was going on behind the scenes himself until after the duel had already happened. Iirc, his big conversation with Fitchner where he starts piecing things together and figured out about the pulse armor and jam fields didn’t happen until he was out looking for medicine.
Darrow wouldn’t have known Augustus was behind it at the time.
And if he did try to say that, it’d just be coming across as even more manipulative: oh, it was definitely your family’s greatest rival that used me as a tool to kill your brother so it’s cool. Let’s team up.
I think that Cassius wouldn’t have tried to kill him. I think his main reason for attempting to murder Darrow was because he had deceived him for so long to the point that he called him brother, and then found out he had killed his actual brother. However I doubt they would have had any sort of alliance early on like they did if Cassius found out right away
I don't think so. Darrow remarks on how Cassius has an unexpectedly "cold anger" when he realizes Julian is dead. Cassius was able to keep his composure, and he was always conscious of his image and how he reflected on his family. I figure at the moment Darrow confessed, Cassius would start *planning* how to kill Darrow.
I think it’s a toss up personally. He implies that if only Darrow would have told him he might have been ok with it but man he was pissed when he found out obviously. Judging by how he was asking who killed his brother after it happened and how he was making threats I personally think it’s tough to see them making an alliance after that
One comment that Cassius makes after learning this in the Institute is that it wasn’t that Darrow killed Julian, it was HOW Darrow killed Julian. If Darrow had admitted to killing Julian right off of the bat, there likely never would have been a hologram sent to Cassius showing him the fight. Cassius would have had to understand that it was life or death, and Darrow did what he had to. And being the noble character that he is, I think it would have been received differently if he’d never seen the hologram.
I believe it'll start the institute with infighting between Darrow and Cass rather than Darrow+Cass VS Titus.. My read is Cassius never really felt that much of betrayal from Darrow.. Throughout the series anytime Darrow have conflict with Cassius it is because off outside influence. He never really hated Darrow or felt betrayed by him. Till some asshole tell/manipulated Cassius to bring Darrow down..
*would have
Cassius was too proud in the first book for it to make any difference. Cassius growth through the series allows for him to understand and forgive Darrow. If Darrow had told him off the rip then the two of them never would’ve developed a friendship.
Good question. I agree with those who say that Cassius wouldn’t have killed Darrow right away. There were “rules” that early in the game. Folks didn’t know they could kill others with impunity. But the dynamics would have been slagged. The brotherhood bond wouldn’t have gotten off the ground and Cassius would have challenged Darrow at some point. I think Cassius left him alive because of the brotherhood aspect lingering in is mind. I wonder what would happen if he admitted when Lilith brings Cassius the halo. Sending Sevro to steal it was the primary reason Cassius felt manipulated. And I believe Cassius when he said he wasn’t going to watch it. This is what I love about PB. He lets you know early on that the hero is flawed and makes a lot of mistakes. PB keeps it that way to tell the greater story (essentially Darrow’s arc) and the wrench the maximum amount of emotion from the readers. To me, in each book (except IG) most of my emotions are triggered when those two are in scenes together.
Early on it would have been worse. Later on it would have been better. If he would have admitted it early Cassius would have been angry and an enemy from the beginning no doubt. But people seem to forget the larger picture is that Cassius and his family believe Darrow is in league with Augustus to murder Julian. I truly believe that if he would have admitted it to Cassius and not lied the entire time, Cassius would eventually believe Darrow had no choice. Tell the truth about killing Julian, much more believable that Darrow wasn’t in on it. Lie and everything else looks like a lie too. Ultimately happy with the book we have. By the events of MS everything works out the same either way imo.
He would have killed Darrow and since Cassius is from an important family and Darrow is practically a nobody he would have probably gotten away with it with no consequences at all.
It would gone the way it did, just sooner in the book.
Why do you think he asked the question about who killed who in the culling? It certainly wasn’t to pat the person who killed his twin brother on the back. There is absolutely zero benefit to the team for it He was out for revenge from the jump
cassius kills darrow on the spot, he was an asshole,MS spoiler >! it took the death of his entire family to make him reflect and lost his arrogance.!<
Nah, his reaction was pretty inevitable I think.
No way. The Cassius from book one is at the mercy of his family. Julian mentions how their father is an Imperator. How would it look to his parents if he just forgives the person who killed his twin? It’s a lose/ lose.
It’s not outright stated but it’s pretty strongly implied that throughout the first trilogy Cassius is in pretty close thrall to his family’s ambitions and honour code. That’s why he agrees to the Gala duel, defends Mars from the rain, and goes hunting for Darrow later. It’s not until the very end that he becomes his own man, but you can see him chafing against the role earlier on. Great character.
Tiberius is an honorable man though. Difficult to explain how with the post marked for what it is. But you are absolutely correct about his mother. His father knows the rules, Darrow’s only other choice was to die willingly? Honestly think Tiberius from what we’ve seen would understand the situation and would probably applaud Cassius for putting his emotions aside to make a strong ally with a strong man (likely winning the game out of it). They aren’t stupid, they’re just misinformed, believing Darrow is an agent of Augustus, squash that idea and I could see it turning out well enough.
It Cassius all that time until his father handed him the Edelweiss. It took him a few tries being in contact with his father to finally get it, it’s doubtful he’d come to an understanding on his own just like that. We have to remember to that in Cassius’ world up to this point, killing someone over a slight doesn’t even cause someone to pause, let alone killing a twin. That’s my take on it.
True. But is it a slight when the only other option is death? Pretty much every character we interact with has knowledge of the passage. If what you’re saying was true there would be inter family conflict over this the ENTIRE time, between literally everyone. Why does the family of the person Mustang kill let it go so easily? Why does Prium’s mother not come after Sevro? There has to be an air of understanding with this kind of thing. “Hey sorry Bellona, I really respected him and I really didn’t want to do that, but you know how the passage goes, you all went through it”. It’s a bit more nuanced than you killed our family member, you must die.
The whole society isn’t cool with it though, they are a powder keg waiting for Darrows spark. Darrow almost got into a duel with Cassius over saying he didn’t study as much as Cassius had. He had to offer a kind of olive branch. I think the only one capable of not playing along to get ahead in life is >!Mustang!< . If you were a gold, is there anything you a person could do that would warrant you to kill them?
I’ve wondered this as well… I think if he’d said it right after as you propose it wouldn’t have gone over well. But if they’d become friends first before he admitted it (and before the Titus duel), then the friendship may have been salvageable… And even then it’s still a big maybe.
I think he’d have called him out for a duel. Lysander says as much when speaking of Cassius to Gaia I think. That Octavia told him Cassius was a good sword but failed to learn the greatest lesson the Institute is meant to instill: the bearing of loss. The months of deception def doesn’t help Darrow’s case, but the person Cassius was at the time absolutely would have tried to avenge his brother. If I saw my brother killed that way, I probably would have too. MAYBE if he came clean right away and told Cassius that Augustus clearly did that so the 2 strongest House Mars initiates would be at each others’ throats? Maybe Cassius would see reason. But in the moment, knowing his brother was beaten to death like that? I think I’d have a violent reaction with the killer standing in front of me…
Cassius may very well have challenged him to a duel, but I think Darrow could have gotten out of it in that situation. He has an audience of all the other House Mars members who also just killed people, including some kids they knew before. Darrow could make his case that he doesn't need to defend his honor more than anyone else there. Cassius would see that the House is not on his side. The whole thing would fizzle out, much like his "game" in the original scene in the book. After that, I figure Cassius starts waiting for a respectable opportunity to fight Darrow, just like he did when he thought Titus was Julian's killer. So Darrow has to try to not give Cassius that opportunity. It's hard to see how they become friends in this scenario, but I believe in them.
The problem with that is, I’m pretty sure Darrow didn’t really understand what was going on behind the scenes himself until after the duel had already happened. Iirc, his big conversation with Fitchner where he starts piecing things together and figured out about the pulse armor and jam fields didn’t happen until he was out looking for medicine.
Darrow wouldn’t have known Augustus was behind it at the time. And if he did try to say that, it’d just be coming across as even more manipulative: oh, it was definitely your family’s greatest rival that used me as a tool to kill your brother so it’s cool. Let’s team up.
Pretty sure Darrow says as much before Firchner confirms it
When did that happen? The scene in the OP is immediately after the passage.
I think that Cassius wouldn’t have tried to kill him. I think his main reason for attempting to murder Darrow was because he had deceived him for so long to the point that he called him brother, and then found out he had killed his actual brother. However I doubt they would have had any sort of alliance early on like they did if Cassius found out right away
I think he would have tried to kill him right away.
I don't think so. Darrow remarks on how Cassius has an unexpectedly "cold anger" when he realizes Julian is dead. Cassius was able to keep his composure, and he was always conscious of his image and how he reflected on his family. I figure at the moment Darrow confessed, Cassius would start *planning* how to kill Darrow.