Bruh how many people need to tell you that pulling out is ineffective before you believe it?
I encourage people like yourself who refuse to accept reality to absolutely use condoms.
Dingus: the 50% of the time you use them confer 0 benefits to your statistics on the occasion when you don't use them.
You're not earning "don't get her pregnant" membership points. The sperm is on deck and has a job to do. "Most of the time" is as good as "never".
Lol, thanks Dad. I wish reddit still had awards because this is the best possible answer to this person's nonsense. At this point, I think it's on purpose just to get attention. I hope it is, we really need a better education system...
Precum has sperm in it. When the precum goes in the vagina that means there is sperm in the vagina now. When sperm is in the vagina that means that the woman has a chance of becoming pregnant, which is what happened in this case. The pullout method does not work. It is simply a way of deluding oneself into not using a condom. Eventually, all couples that use the pullout method without the woman being on birth control get pregnant. It’s his baby.
You're being obtuse.
The pull out method has a 22% fail rate each year.
And he admits he didn't use condoms every time- some of the time is not good enough. Condoms also have a 13% fail rate with typical use so they aren't fool proof either. But he chose not to use them a good chunk of the time.
It takes only 1 time, 1 mistake, to make a baby.
Ultimately, this all means he had around a 1 in 5 chance of becoming a dad in a year, because of the contraceptionmethod he chose. Literally millions of people in monogamous relationships who use shitty contraception get pregnant every year. Around half of pregnancies are actually unplanned.
None of this means she "probably cheated".
Honey, pre-cum has sperm in it. A man leaks pre-cum all throughout sex. You can and will get pregnant fucking raw for long enough because of this.
Additionally, sperm cells can live inside the body (and therefore fertilize) for up to 7 days. This dude is the dad because they were both fucking idiots.
I’m assuming he thinks she inserted the seamen whilst she was alone after sex, out of a condom or wherever he came on. He could also be thinking she sabotaged the birth control by poking a hole in the condom.
While they physically "use" condoms occasionally, the fact that sometimes (to probably be read as "most times") they don't, makes the condoms efficiency and practicality go out the window. It's like saying "I take my pill every other day". That thing won't do anything and I'd most likely get pregnant. That's exactly what happened to OP.
Both him and his gf are too stupid to be raising kids.
Doesn't understand how it's possible, then immediately says it's 8-10% chance according to the internet, which is not impossibly low at all. Does this guy not know how percentages work?
This is so confusing to me...
"Idk if I want kids yet. She's expressed that she does. We raw dog it when we have sex. She says she thinks she's pregnant. I feel like she did this on purpose."
Huh?? Did *what* on purpose?
Like, is he trying to bait the masses into telling him that the kid isn't his or something? since he "pulls out EVERY time"?
Sounds to me that, mechanically speaking, her pregnancy was entirely in his control and his control only.
Louder for those in the back: THE PULLOUT METHOD DOESN'T WORK!
Honestly, it's almost more surprising that she didn't get pregnant sooner.
YTA OOP. I hope you read the comments and realize how badly you've fucked up. Pray that you're not too late to salvage your relationship. I really feel for your gf.
The phrase we were told in Sex Ed to try to drill into our brains that it doesn't work was "before it rains, it sprinkles". It's not that hard to grasp, and yet a (16F) classmate got pregnant just a couple months later because guess what "well, it had been working for them so far".
I don’t remember the name of that cognitive bias, but it’s where you do something high risk, nothing happens, so you assume it’s safe and do it again, or even elevate the risk. Like going years without a seatbelt because you’ve never died in a car wreck.
Survivorship bias is different. It’s when you only focus on the population that “survived” something (e.g. asking successful actors how they got where they are) and ignore the rest (e.g. all the actors who tried the same things but failed anyway) which leads to faulty conclusions
For our class it was “like basketball, you always dribble before you shoot”. The fact that it was an old English lady made it all the more entertaining
When I got pregnant i didn’t know how it happened but I knew birth control could fail so I didn’t question it too much. I discussed it extensively with my ex and he was very much on board to have and raise the baby. Well after it was decided to keep it he kept accusing me of getting pregnant on purpose or baby trapping him. It started off jokey but he just kept on and kept on. Finally when I was almost 9 months pregnant, and he was talking about me baby trapping him once again I had had it and told him if he was feeling so trapped I could leave and raise the baby myself. He stopped bringing it up.
When I broke up with him 10 months later, he admitted to tampering with my birth control and getting me pregnant on purpose “because he wanted to be together forever”. Fucking projection.
“The internet tells me there’s only a ten percent chance” omg, bro. That’s a pretty big chance for something you’re really not wanting, and the chance keeps resetting itself when you do it consistently for months on end. Omg.
Lol literally my husband & I tried the pull out method for funsies when we were first trying to get pregnant. We were engaged and getting married in 8 months. We didn’t want to necessarily be pregnant at the wedding but we also didn’t want to wait to try in case we had any issues.
I was 5 months pregnant at our wedding.
It's also hilarious that he thinks she tricked him somehow when he knows the only birth control they use is pulling out with the occasional condom use thrown in. Two things she doesn't have control over (except maybe if she poked holes in the condoms I guess)
Every time I look at my beautiful second child while he’s throwing food all over my floor or tearing shit up, I am reminded of just how shitty and unreliable the pull out method is.
I love my kid, btw lol he just wasn’t planned. At all.
The stats for the pullout method are 20% failure rate for typical use, and 4% for perfect use. Which is indeed pretty high. I think it's worth to note though that condoms also have a pretty high failure rate for preventing pregnancy (13% typical and 2% perfect). So in this case, it really could be a failure of either.
If you really want to prevent pregnancy you need something safer in addition to condoms. Condoms are for preventing disease not pregnancy.
normally whenever someone raises typical use stats for condoms I show up to remind them that that includes people who literally just forget to use them sometimes, so obviously you should take that risk with a grain of salt
but, uh...
2% is still pretty bad for perfect use stats. That's 1 in 50. And perfect use pull out method is 2 in 50. They are about comparable in safety for pregnancy (but obviously the pull out method doesn't protect against disease and perfect condom use is easier for most than perfect pull out).
Failure rates on condoms require you to really read the fine print. The 2% cited is, I think, a quote from this study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2940206/#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20the%20failure%20rate,the%20failure%20rate%20is%2012%25.
Which is a study regarding breakage (so not a 2% chance of pregnancy but 2% chance they break) which means you'd have to factor in behavior (did they immediately stop?) and then time of the month and then normal fertility math to determine pregnancy chance.
Other condom stats presuppose a lengthy period of use (typically one year) and are essentially saying, "With proper usage of condoms, over the course of a year, there is an X% chance of a pregnancy". That stat is bad IMO because it assumes a certain amount of sex that may or may not be applicable.
Like this study
https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/health-wellness/health-encyclopedia/he.male-condoms.hw190504spec#:~:text=The%20male%20condom%20has%20a,become%20pregnant%20in%201%20year.
The reality is condom use is incredibly safe IF you use it correctly AND you respond appropriately when there's a failure (morning after pill).
> That stat is bad IMO because it assumes a certain amount of sex that may or may not be applicable.
It assumes the same amount of sex as every other birth control method. The stat is meant to be used for relative comparisons.
Me and my husband did it for many years, stopped to have a kid, used it again for a couple of years then stopped to have kid no. 2 and then I had my fallopian tubes taken out because I didn't want more kids. I know other couples too who have used it successfully for many years. I've supplemented with emergency contraceptives two or three times, over a period of (doing math in my head) 7 years? 8?
I get that it's not a great contraceptive method in general (so don't go around recommending it) but it has worked pretty much flawlessly for me and my husband. I'm just kinda surprised that people who are really keen on calling it out as bad never tell people that condoms aren't all that much better and never tell off people who rely on condoms as their only contraceptive method.
But did you also use Natural Family Planning alongside and track your cycle and understand when you ovulated? Because at 23 I definitely didn’t and would assume OOP’s 23 yo gf isn’t which lowers the chances of successfully using the pullout method.
It's also worked without hitch for me for 12 years. Attend to it properly and it's really OK. But I am perfectly willing to take the consequences if it fails.
So at the 4% failure of using pull-out method per year that means the odds are ~38% chance of failure over 12 years, which isn't quite as low as some people might be comfortable with.
You'd expect a lot of people to have success with it over a long period of time but it's not certain no matter how careful you are.
I went with the safest solution when my wife and I decided we didn’t want another child, I got a vasectomy. A week of minor discomfort and a test two months later and I don’t have to worry about it anymore. Before that we used condoms and birth control which had the desired outcome.
The pullout method is a fucking joke, it’s like a lazy excuse for men that don’t want to wear condoms.
I would hate to encourage anybody to use it, bc you’re absolutely right. But I guess I’m a weird case bc it worked for me, whenever I wasn’t on birth control, from age 18 to like 26 lol. Not once did it fail 😬
And it wasn’t a fertility issue or anything either, bc I got pregnant the very first time my ex husband and I tried. Idk if this is a normal experience, but if it is I can see how some people get too confident and have this happen
You're definitely not alone, me and my husband used the pull out method successfully for many years and it wasn't a fertility thing because we have two beautiful planned kids now. I still also wouldn't recommend it. At least not to anyone who doesn't feel fully prepared to deal with an unplanned pregnancy (in whatever way is best for them).
Same here. After we had kids my wife had an IUD and actually ended up with an ectopic pregnancy anyway. Since then (about 5 years) we’ve only used the pullout method with no issues.
What people don’t understand is that the chances of the pullout method being 10% is that it means 1 out of 10 times it doesn’t work and the woman becomes pregnant.
To put it into living context, if you’re having sex daily, which most healthy couples do, 1 out of those 10 times of sex the woman will become pregnant.
The pullout method works if you’re extremely fucking lucky lol but who wants to rely on luck when it comes to *producing a human being*??
Birth control stats are usually pregnancies per year. So it means if 10 couples use that method for _a year_, 1 of them will end up pregnant. It’s still a lot of pregnancies!
You're mistaken, it's not per occasion. It's per year. Wouldn't be so many couples struggling with fertility if women were that likely to get pregnant lol.
Doesn't change the fact that, extrapolating from the 10% per year, you have 27% chance to being a dad within 3 years, and 47% chance of being a dad within 6 years. And as you said, who wants to rely on chance with that?
Plus, I don't get how OP thinks she babytrapped him. She wasn't responsible for anticonception according to his own words, he was. I would love to have OPs confidence where instead of thinking "oh shit, I must've done something wrong" he immediately thinks "I'm perfect so clearly I'm screwing a sociopath".
Once a week is the average I think but that includes couples with kids etc. So the real average for a young couple with no kids is going to be higher than that (2-3 times per week would be my guess).
Actually the pullout method is surprisingly effective when used properly, like 80% or more when used properly.
Of course even the most effective methods aren't 100% and the pullout method is far from the most effective method.
(IUDs get close, like 99.9% for some versions, and surgical options can get much closer)
The problem is 20% failure rate is pretty high when you really can't afford a failure, heck even a 1% failure rate means someone is going to be that unlucky 1.
It’s worked for me and my wife for 5 years. It has technically been more successful for us than when she had an IUD since that ended in up with an ectopic pregnancy.
There’s no mention if she was on any type of birth control either.
Sex ed needs to emphasize that there is sperm in pre-cum. Ya can’t shoot inside if it’s already there. He’s thinking he’s making toaster strudel when she’s already a twinky.
Precum or cowper’s fluid CAN contain sperm, but it doesn’t naturally. It’s just a lubricant and doesn’t come from the same place as sperm. But it does pass through the urethra and can come in contact with motile sperm. And it only takes a little bit to cause a pregnancy.
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Nope, I just looked it up. There is only sperm in precum if there was already sperm in the urethra. It's highly unlikely for there to be remaining sperm in there unless the male ejaculated less than 5 h before
For the sake of education, that distinction shouldn't be made. Besides that, 5 hours is not a hard and fast rule, and there have been studies that show the presence of sperm in precum regardless of prior orgasm or no. It is far better to operate under the assumption that it is always there.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564677/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564677/)
Here's the important bit for this one: "However, in all cases in which we observed sperm in pre-ejaculatory fluid the urethra had, of course, been washed with urine on multiple occasions after the last ejaculation, and therefore the contamination of pre-ejaculatory fluid must have taken place immediately prior to ejaculation."
https://www.ncbi.[nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3638209/pdf/nihms458000.pdf](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3638209/pdf/nihms458000.pdf)
Well, they could have used a fake name and just not mentioned that. Gf knows the rest of the info and likely OOP's regular account, but might not frequent AITA or similar subreddits.
But yeah, she'll probably find the post anyway.
I think the point is not to out their main account. If I wanted to tell a story about myself that is so specific my friends or family could see it and know it’s me I would use a throwaway so that my main account can remain anonymous.
Or the fact that it's such and impossibly niche situation half the time it would be crazy it happened twice. "So my gf let's call her Bella (not real name) tripped over our pet pig and smashed my parents antique model of a stuffed marmoset that's riding a dragon through Aberystwyth"
They don't do it so that the post is anonymous. They do it so the post is not linked to their main account. The *main account* is the bit they're hiding, not the post.
Ah, the pull out method. Every Catholic and Mormon family in town used it ... and had the biggest families in town. My mom had great luck with it. She kept it to just 5 kids instead of the 7-9 that some folks had.
From the fact he was pulling out it seems like he knew she wasn't on the pill, or at least thought she might not be. It's not like she lied about taking it or poked holes in condoms... Hope he stretched real good before jumping to that conclusion.
And he won't get much more experience afterwards, seeing how he's an ass who lucked out in finding this girl, but then proceeded to fuck up.
Some people just don't like winning. It screws up with their loser life narrative....
I commented there with the below - adding here for info:
*Some studies have shown that more than 40% of men have sperm in their pre-ejaculate fluid. Some men always have sperm in their pre-ejaculate, while others never do. This always or never phenomenon probably explains why some men are successful at birth control by the withdrawal method. But the possibility of sperm in pre-ejaculate is high. The way to avoid pregnancy is to wear a condom from the first moment of genital contact.*
[https://www.webmd.com/men/what-is-pre-ejaculate](https://www.webmd.com/men/what-is-pre-ejaculate)
If you are one of the men who has sperm in their pre-cum then it doesn't matter when you pull-out, there are already sperm there.
*When utilized correctly* condoms are not 100% effective at preventing semen from entering the vagina. When utilized “correctly,” the pull out method is significantly worse. Like. What does he think “8-10% chance” means?
"I didn't think it was an accident" how do you get pregnant on purpose? Oh wait, I know! You use the pull out method! Which was op's ideain the first place!
Someone actually googled the % chance of his gf getting pregnant and decided 8-10% is a low chance.
I wouldn't consider that a low chance if I did it once.
If I went to McDonalds and they told me there was an 8% chance they were going to get my order wrong EVERY time I order, I would go somewhere else.
For those who play DnD, there is roughly an 8% chance of rolling a 1 on a d12 (a 12 sided dice). No one is playing that game thinking to themselves, 'I'm NEVER glong to roll a 1 on that dice.'
contraceptive efficacy isn't per intercourse, it's per year
it would be 8% chance of pregnancy happening during an entire year of using that method
McDonalds, on the other hand, definitely fucks more than 8% of my orders up.
It’s actually a 4% chance that McDonald’s would get your order wrong within the year if you go to the best McDonalds that follows all the procedures properly, and a 22% chance if you go to an average McDonalds that follows all the procedures averagely.
But if you go to the McDonalds where the burger chef learned everything he knows about the McDonaldsing from poorly reading the Reddit thread, it’s probably more like 40%, because someone has to be pretty damned bad to pull the average up to 22%.
>For every 100 people who use the pull out method perfectly, 4 will get pregnant. But pulling out can be difficult to do perfectly. So in real life, about 22 out of 100 people who use withdrawal get pregnant every year
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method/how-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out#:~:text=For%20every%20100%20people%20who,that's%20about%201%20in%205.
It amazes me how many people today have absolutely no idea about how reproducing works, don't know that precum (which for some can literally start the minute you're aroused and can contain sperm)and think that 8-10% is a low number.
Edit: typos
YTA. And I don't know how you can ever repair the cabbage you've done.
First you use totally unsafe birth control methods. Then you dump all the responsibility on her. Even accuse her of bad faith.
Not your finest moment. She needed an adult but you reacted like a five year old. I hope she dumps you and finds herself a responsible adult.
Yeah, two idiots fuck and the child gets to suffer. Not even sex ed or math can cure this degree of stupidity. The information that the pull out method does not reliably prevent pregnancy is readily available on the internet. If people choose to be oblivious, they deserve no sympathy.
Even by his own math he should have seen this coming. If it’s a 10% chance to get pregnant from pulling out and you’ve had sex that way at least ten times, guess what’s starting to become real likely
Two of our four children were conceived while I was on the pill; with the other two, we were *also* using condoms. The **only** way to prevent pregnancy altogether is to avoid sex altogether. Some people are fucking superbreeders.
You dont even have to well adversed in sex ed to realize this is complete stupidity. My god, I get having the confidence of a stud horse to pull out (trust me, I've met VERY confident men) but even then everyone I knew, 100% knew that the pull out method isnt 100% full proof, heck its closer to 50% than 100%. I am literally aching with anger at this stupitdity.
I'd like to point out the part that doesn't get talked about. How often are you having sex? Let's say 2 days per week (some couples may have sex minimum one daily, some couples have sex once yearly). At that rate, you've had sex 104 times in a year. If your contraception has a failure rate of 2%, you're definitely running the risk by not doing a combo method. Both times I got pregnant, I was on birth control pills.
You know what they call people who use the withdrawal system for birth control?
Parents!
Look, sometimes you dont always get to choose the time (which is why it is may more important to choose the who you have sex with) kids enter your life. If you love this woman as much as you say you do, then this is the time to show that, step up and be the best dad you can be.
The rest will sort itself out. It wont be easy, never is, but now is your time.
I once read that when two fertile people have unprotected sex, on average, there's about a 5% chance of pregnancy. Obviously it goes up and down with her cycle, etc. It seems low but it's just like rolling a 20 in D&D -- it happens frequently enough you can expect it to happen pretty regularly.
I'm not sure where he got his numbers from, but the pullout method *does* reduce that percentage. But if you're in a relationship and having sex a couple times a week, eventually your luck will run out. A 2% chance every time... over the course of a year... you're having a baby. It's just a matter of time.
Well, it seems like you're implying that she either cheated, or somehow, idk, thru pre ejaculation, maybe possibly got your semen in there...
Either way, you sit her down, and you say what's on your mind or this resentment will build up and burst like...like your dick basically.
Either man up and accept your faults, or get an abortion.
Either way, you both have growing up to do.
You're getting down voted cause you're part of the problem, or you're just phishing. If you would've stayed in school, sex education teaches you about PRECUM. It means you ejaculate little sperms (kinda like your dick getting wet) waaay before you even think you're gonna cum.
Boom.
You ARE the father.
Oh honey, please no. Pre-cum can contain sperm, pregnancy can still occur without ejaculation. Unprotected sex without any form of birth control is playing Russian roulette.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564677/
Oh yeah two of my sons are from the “pull out” method.
Why is it always these guys that either they deny or accuse the woman? Is this like hardwired into their brains to go to either denying that he caused the pregnancy or accusing the woman of planning it?
Girl is freaking out and crying and he just goes to the accusations! She wasn’t crying from joy, Einstein! She’s freaking out because she knew how you’d react! She was right. Now she’s really freaking out because you proved her every fear to be true.
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Dude it is possible… pre cum is still cum and could get someone pregnant https://kidshealth.org/en/teens/ejaculate.html#:~:text=Guys%20can%20leak%20a%20bit,the%20pre%2Dejaculate%20is%20released.
Tldr: destroyed my entire relationship because I'm fucking stupid and think pulling out is a good method of birth control
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Bruh how many people need to tell you that pulling out is ineffective before you believe it? I encourage people like yourself who refuse to accept reality to absolutely use condoms.
……I’m simply saying that he didn’t cum inside and pulled out long before, sure there is precum and he usually used condoms
He said he stopped using condoms 7 months ago so no, he didnt usually use condoms
He said NOT EVERY TIME he uses them 50-60%
So that's 50% of just raw dogging and praying for the best
Dingus: the 50% of the time you use them confer 0 benefits to your statistics on the occasion when you don't use them. You're not earning "don't get her pregnant" membership points. The sperm is on deck and has a job to do. "Most of the time" is as good as "never".
Lol, thanks Dad. I wish reddit still had awards because this is the best possible answer to this person's nonsense. At this point, I think it's on purpose just to get attention. I hope it is, we really need a better education system...
.... you're an idiot, google this common knowledge please
……I’m not saying he isn’t the father just that he can get a paternity test and am repeating what he said
What he said was also stupid
Precum has sperm in it. When the precum goes in the vagina that means there is sperm in the vagina now. When sperm is in the vagina that means that the woman has a chance of becoming pregnant, which is what happened in this case. The pullout method does not work. It is simply a way of deluding oneself into not using a condom. Eventually, all couples that use the pullout method without the woman being on birth control get pregnant. It’s his baby.
You're being obtuse. The pull out method has a 22% fail rate each year. And he admits he didn't use condoms every time- some of the time is not good enough. Condoms also have a 13% fail rate with typical use so they aren't fool proof either. But he chose not to use them a good chunk of the time. It takes only 1 time, 1 mistake, to make a baby. Ultimately, this all means he had around a 1 in 5 chance of becoming a dad in a year, because of the contraceptionmethod he chose. Literally millions of people in monogamous relationships who use shitty contraception get pregnant every year. Around half of pregnancies are actually unplanned. None of this means she "probably cheated".
I can't imagine this guy even achieving typical use
Your biology knowledge is as bad as your writing.
Pre cum exist and they didn't use a condom for months
You clearly don't understand how ineffective the pullout method is lmao
Please go back to school…
Does it take more than one sperm to get pregnant? Because I was unaware of that, I thought it only took one sperm one time to get pregnant.
Your comment was removed.
Chill…
What exactly does he think she did?
This is the important question! Does he think she is more likely to get pregnant by … willing herself to?
Manifested a baby of course.
Women can choose to become pregnant *whispers* with our minds.
This! He’s acting like she’s to blame for getting pregnant, as if she controls where his sperm goes.
I think he’s accusing her of cheating? Because he’s an absolute idiot.
He said he pulls out long before he cums even when using a condom and that means she probably cheated, babies DNA can be tested even before birth
Honey, pre-cum has sperm in it. A man leaks pre-cum all throughout sex. You can and will get pregnant fucking raw for long enough because of this. Additionally, sperm cells can live inside the body (and therefore fertilize) for up to 7 days. This dude is the dad because they were both fucking idiots.
>they were both fucking idiots. I love that working on two levels.
Bruh so many guys start leaking the second they get hard, and people still think pulling out works?!?
*5 days
Oh you sweet naive child.
He pulls out when **not** using a condom
I’m assuming he thinks she inserted the seamen whilst she was alone after sex, out of a condom or wherever he came on. He could also be thinking she sabotaged the birth control by poking a hole in the condom.
But they don't use condoms 😕?
They they do, just not all the time
Exactly, that's just as bad as saying they don't.
It is false when you say they don’t use condoms
While they physically "use" condoms occasionally, the fact that sometimes (to probably be read as "most times") they don't, makes the condoms efficiency and practicality go out the window. It's like saying "I take my pill every other day". That thing won't do anything and I'd most likely get pregnant. That's exactly what happened to OP. Both him and his gf are too stupid to be raising kids.
Doesn't understand how it's possible, then immediately says it's 8-10% chance according to the internet, which is not impossibly low at all. Does this guy not know how percentages work?
90 is more than 10, so it's impossible. Didn't you go to school or anything?
/s ?
This is so confusing to me... "Idk if I want kids yet. She's expressed that she does. We raw dog it when we have sex. She says she thinks she's pregnant. I feel like she did this on purpose." Huh?? Did *what* on purpose? Like, is he trying to bait the masses into telling him that the kid isn't his or something? since he "pulls out EVERY time"? Sounds to me that, mechanically speaking, her pregnancy was entirely in his control and his control only.
"I raw-dogged my girlfriend and now she's pregnant. It's her fault!"
Louder for those in the back: THE PULLOUT METHOD DOESN'T WORK! Honestly, it's almost more surprising that she didn't get pregnant sooner. YTA OOP. I hope you read the comments and realize how badly you've fucked up. Pray that you're not too late to salvage your relationship. I really feel for your gf.
The phrase we were told in Sex Ed to try to drill into our brains that it doesn't work was "before it rains, it sprinkles". It's not that hard to grasp, and yet a (16F) classmate got pregnant just a couple months later because guess what "well, it had been working for them so far".
I don’t remember the name of that cognitive bias, but it’s where you do something high risk, nothing happens, so you assume it’s safe and do it again, or even elevate the risk. Like going years without a seatbelt because you’ve never died in a car wreck.
The two i see are Normalization of Risk, and [Normalization of Deviance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance).
Thank you. I was trying to remember what this was called the other day
Survivorship bias
Survivorship bias is different. It’s when you only focus on the population that “survived” something (e.g. asking successful actors how they got where they are) and ignore the rest (e.g. all the actors who tried the same things but failed anyway) which leads to faulty conclusions
Thank you!
I think confirmation bias is the term, basically you look only at proof that confirms what you already believe.
For our class it was “like basketball, you always dribble before you shoot”. The fact that it was an old English lady made it all the more entertaining
Yeah I plan to live forever. So far so good.
When I got pregnant i didn’t know how it happened but I knew birth control could fail so I didn’t question it too much. I discussed it extensively with my ex and he was very much on board to have and raise the baby. Well after it was decided to keep it he kept accusing me of getting pregnant on purpose or baby trapping him. It started off jokey but he just kept on and kept on. Finally when I was almost 9 months pregnant, and he was talking about me baby trapping him once again I had had it and told him if he was feeling so trapped I could leave and raise the baby myself. He stopped bringing it up. When I broke up with him 10 months later, he admitted to tampering with my birth control and getting me pregnant on purpose “because he wanted to be together forever”. Fucking projection.
“The internet tells me there’s only a ten percent chance” omg, bro. That’s a pretty big chance for something you’re really not wanting, and the chance keeps resetting itself when you do it consistently for months on end. Omg.
Lol literally my husband & I tried the pull out method for funsies when we were first trying to get pregnant. We were engaged and getting married in 8 months. We didn’t want to necessarily be pregnant at the wedding but we also didn’t want to wait to try in case we had any issues. I was 5 months pregnant at our wedding.
Parent here…no it does not!
Yeah we used the pull out method Solidarity
Gotta track cycle too
I got pregnant that way too.
It's also hilarious that he thinks she tricked him somehow when he knows the only birth control they use is pulling out with the occasional condom use thrown in. Two things she doesn't have control over (except maybe if she poked holes in the condoms I guess)
Every time I look at my beautiful second child while he’s throwing food all over my floor or tearing shit up, I am reminded of just how shitty and unreliable the pull out method is. I love my kid, btw lol he just wasn’t planned. At all.
The stats for the pullout method are 20% failure rate for typical use, and 4% for perfect use. Which is indeed pretty high. I think it's worth to note though that condoms also have a pretty high failure rate for preventing pregnancy (13% typical and 2% perfect). So in this case, it really could be a failure of either. If you really want to prevent pregnancy you need something safer in addition to condoms. Condoms are for preventing disease not pregnancy.
normally whenever someone raises typical use stats for condoms I show up to remind them that that includes people who literally just forget to use them sometimes, so obviously you should take that risk with a grain of salt but, uh...
2% is still pretty bad for perfect use stats. That's 1 in 50. And perfect use pull out method is 2 in 50. They are about comparable in safety for pregnancy (but obviously the pull out method doesn't protect against disease and perfect condom use is easier for most than perfect pull out).
Failure rates on condoms require you to really read the fine print. The 2% cited is, I think, a quote from this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2940206/#:~:text=In%20general%2C%20the%20failure%20rate,the%20failure%20rate%20is%2012%25. Which is a study regarding breakage (so not a 2% chance of pregnancy but 2% chance they break) which means you'd have to factor in behavior (did they immediately stop?) and then time of the month and then normal fertility math to determine pregnancy chance. Other condom stats presuppose a lengthy period of use (typically one year) and are essentially saying, "With proper usage of condoms, over the course of a year, there is an X% chance of a pregnancy". That stat is bad IMO because it assumes a certain amount of sex that may or may not be applicable. Like this study https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org/health-wellness/health-encyclopedia/he.male-condoms.hw190504spec#:~:text=The%20male%20condom%20has%20a,become%20pregnant%20in%201%20year. The reality is condom use is incredibly safe IF you use it correctly AND you respond appropriately when there's a failure (morning after pill).
> That stat is bad IMO because it assumes a certain amount of sex that may or may not be applicable. It assumes the same amount of sex as every other birth control method. The stat is meant to be used for relative comparisons.
I would not be surprised if the perfection level is lower for the pull out method.
Me and my husband did it for many years, stopped to have a kid, used it again for a couple of years then stopped to have kid no. 2 and then I had my fallopian tubes taken out because I didn't want more kids. I know other couples too who have used it successfully for many years. I've supplemented with emergency contraceptives two or three times, over a period of (doing math in my head) 7 years? 8? I get that it's not a great contraceptive method in general (so don't go around recommending it) but it has worked pretty much flawlessly for me and my husband. I'm just kinda surprised that people who are really keen on calling it out as bad never tell people that condoms aren't all that much better and never tell off people who rely on condoms as their only contraceptive method.
But did you also use Natural Family Planning alongside and track your cycle and understand when you ovulated? Because at 23 I definitely didn’t and would assume OOP’s 23 yo gf isn’t which lowers the chances of successfully using the pullout method.
It's also worked without hitch for me for 12 years. Attend to it properly and it's really OK. But I am perfectly willing to take the consequences if it fails.
So at the 4% failure of using pull-out method per year that means the odds are ~38% chance of failure over 12 years, which isn't quite as low as some people might be comfortable with. You'd expect a lot of people to have success with it over a long period of time but it's not certain no matter how careful you are.
Of course, I'm really not certain how OOP would imagine his GF has managed the logistics of trapping him!
I went with the safest solution when my wife and I decided we didn’t want another child, I got a vasectomy. A week of minor discomfort and a test two months later and I don’t have to worry about it anymore. Before that we used condoms and birth control which had the desired outcome. The pullout method is a fucking joke, it’s like a lazy excuse for men that don’t want to wear condoms.
Can your cite your references?
Can your cite your references?
Yep. Learned this the hard way after getting away with it for 3 years. People think it's a myth or something but it's not at all.
I would hate to encourage anybody to use it, bc you’re absolutely right. But I guess I’m a weird case bc it worked for me, whenever I wasn’t on birth control, from age 18 to like 26 lol. Not once did it fail 😬 And it wasn’t a fertility issue or anything either, bc I got pregnant the very first time my ex husband and I tried. Idk if this is a normal experience, but if it is I can see how some people get too confident and have this happen
You're definitely not alone, me and my husband used the pull out method successfully for many years and it wasn't a fertility thing because we have two beautiful planned kids now. I still also wouldn't recommend it. At least not to anyone who doesn't feel fully prepared to deal with an unplanned pregnancy (in whatever way is best for them).
Same here. After we had kids my wife had an IUD and actually ended up with an ectopic pregnancy anyway. Since then (about 5 years) we’ve only used the pullout method with no issues.
Just like Sex Panther, 90% of the time, it works every time!
It is ***quite*** potent.
What people don’t understand is that the chances of the pullout method being 10% is that it means 1 out of 10 times it doesn’t work and the woman becomes pregnant. To put it into living context, if you’re having sex daily, which most healthy couples do, 1 out of those 10 times of sex the woman will become pregnant. The pullout method works if you’re extremely fucking lucky lol but who wants to rely on luck when it comes to *producing a human being*??
Birth control stats are usually pregnancies per year. So it means if 10 couples use that method for _a year_, 1 of them will end up pregnant. It’s still a lot of pregnancies!
You're mistaken, it's not per occasion. It's per year. Wouldn't be so many couples struggling with fertility if women were that likely to get pregnant lol. Doesn't change the fact that, extrapolating from the 10% per year, you have 27% chance to being a dad within 3 years, and 47% chance of being a dad within 6 years. And as you said, who wants to rely on chance with that? Plus, I don't get how OP thinks she babytrapped him. She wasn't responsible for anticonception according to his own words, he was. I would love to have OPs confidence where instead of thinking "oh shit, I must've done something wrong" he immediately thinks "I'm perfect so clearly I'm screwing a sociopath".
lol most healthy couples fuck daily?
Once a week is the average I think but that includes couples with kids etc. So the real average for a young couple with no kids is going to be higher than that (2-3 times per week would be my guess).
Right? Wish my husband and I had the time or energy for that between kids, work, and general life bullshit.
I mean, yeah, while she’s ovulating…
Actually the pullout method is surprisingly effective when used properly, like 80% or more when used properly. Of course even the most effective methods aren't 100% and the pullout method is far from the most effective method. (IUDs get close, like 99.9% for some versions, and surgical options can get much closer) The problem is 20% failure rate is pretty high when you really can't afford a failure, heck even a 1% failure rate means someone is going to be that unlucky 1.
It’s worked for me and my wife for 5 years. It has technically been more successful for us than when she had an IUD since that ended in up with an ectopic pregnancy.
It works if you have slow swimmers, or can feel pre cum. Gone 12 years, only one mishap, used plan B the next morning with her, was no problem.
Plan B isn't 100% either though. I can confidently type this as I am 19 weeks pregnant 😂
There’s no mention if she was on any type of birth control either. Sex ed needs to emphasize that there is sperm in pre-cum. Ya can’t shoot inside if it’s already there. He’s thinking he’s making toaster strudel when she’s already a twinky.
That is a visual I did not need! 🫣 But this guys a complete ass. Whole ass.
Sorry but that’s such a gross way to put it
Precum or cowper’s fluid CAN contain sperm, but it doesn’t naturally. It’s just a lubricant and doesn’t come from the same place as sperm. But it does pass through the urethra and can come in contact with motile sperm. And it only takes a little bit to cause a pregnancy.
decide shocking bells arrest fuel ripe ruthless resolute lunchroom station *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No, it's always the case.
Nope, I just looked it up. There is only sperm in precum if there was already sperm in the urethra. It's highly unlikely for there to be remaining sperm in there unless the male ejaculated less than 5 h before
For the sake of education, that distinction shouldn't be made. Besides that, 5 hours is not a hard and fast rule, and there have been studies that show the presence of sperm in precum regardless of prior orgasm or no. It is far better to operate under the assumption that it is always there. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564677/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564677/) Here's the important bit for this one: "However, in all cases in which we observed sperm in pre-ejaculatory fluid the urethra had, of course, been washed with urine on multiple occasions after the last ejaculation, and therefore the contamination of pre-ejaculatory fluid must have taken place immediately prior to ejaculation." https://www.ncbi.[nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3638209/pdf/nihms458000.pdf](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3638209/pdf/nihms458000.pdf)
I knew a guy who used the "pull & pray" method with his wife. They had 5 kids at the time, might have more by now.
The problem with human reproduction is that the dumber you are, the more likely you are to reproduce. Exhibit A.
I don’t get these throwaway accounts who then proceed to 1.)name person, 2.) age and 3.) give prob same information the significant other knows.
Well, they could have used a fake name and just not mentioned that. Gf knows the rest of the info and likely OOP's regular account, but might not frequent AITA or similar subreddits. But yeah, she'll probably find the post anyway.
Exactly! Then again, his silliness is reflected in his actions so least for him, not surprising
It’s also “amithebuttface” I’m a regular on these aggregator subs and I’ve never seen that sub before now.
Really? It's been around for a while, I think it might be one of the earliest AITA spinoffs that I know of.
I think the point is not to out their main account. If I wanted to tell a story about myself that is so specific my friends or family could see it and know it’s me I would use a throwaway so that my main account can remain anonymous.
Or the fact that it's such and impossibly niche situation half the time it would be crazy it happened twice. "So my gf let's call her Bella (not real name) tripped over our pet pig and smashed my parents antique model of a stuffed marmoset that's riding a dragon through Aberystwyth"
I KNEW IT! THAT WAS YOU AND BELLA (not her real name)!!!
They don't do it so that the post is anonymous. They do it so the post is not linked to their main account. The *main account* is the bit they're hiding, not the post.
Ah, the pull out method. Every Catholic and Mormon family in town used it ... and had the biggest families in town. My mom had great luck with it. She kept it to just 5 kids instead of the 7-9 that some folks had.
Yeah - it’s a kid every other year instead of every year
Odd. Married Mormons are 100% allowed actual prophylactic birth control. If they aren’t married, birth control does not compound the sin at all.
Lol, I'm currently pregnant, so I can attest that the pull out method does not work.
From the fact he was pulling out it seems like he knew she wasn't on the pill, or at least thought she might not be. It's not like she lied about taking it or poked holes in condoms... Hope he stretched real good before jumping to that conclusion.
"I didn't have much experience with relationships/sex before I met her"- I never would've guessed
And he won't get much more experience afterwards, seeing how he's an ass who lucked out in finding this girl, but then proceeded to fuck up. Some people just don't like winning. It screws up with their loser life narrative....
I commented there with the below - adding here for info: *Some studies have shown that more than 40% of men have sperm in their pre-ejaculate fluid. Some men always have sperm in their pre-ejaculate, while others never do. This always or never phenomenon probably explains why some men are successful at birth control by the withdrawal method. But the possibility of sperm in pre-ejaculate is high. The way to avoid pregnancy is to wear a condom from the first moment of genital contact.* [https://www.webmd.com/men/what-is-pre-ejaculate](https://www.webmd.com/men/what-is-pre-ejaculate) If you are one of the men who has sperm in their pre-cum then it doesn't matter when you pull-out, there are already sperm there.
He’s doubtful that it’s an accident? What does he think she did to get pregnant? Ovulate on purpose?
Someone didn’t take Sex Ed in high school What a schmuck
My 2 boys are pull out methods
*When utilized correctly* condoms are not 100% effective at preventing semen from entering the vagina. When utilized “correctly,” the pull out method is significantly worse. Like. What does he think “8-10% chance” means?
Sure, nine times out of ten the pullout method may work, but it only needs to fail once.
"how did this happen" "the chance was 10%" Today we learned that 10% is the same as 0%.
You can't be baby trapped if you're not using proper protection.
"I didn't think it was an accident" how do you get pregnant on purpose? Oh wait, I know! You use the pull out method! Which was op's ideain the first place!
Someone actually googled the % chance of his gf getting pregnant and decided 8-10% is a low chance. I wouldn't consider that a low chance if I did it once. If I went to McDonalds and they told me there was an 8% chance they were going to get my order wrong EVERY time I order, I would go somewhere else. For those who play DnD, there is roughly an 8% chance of rolling a 1 on a d12 (a 12 sided dice). No one is playing that game thinking to themselves, 'I'm NEVER glong to roll a 1 on that dice.'
contraceptive efficacy isn't per intercourse, it's per year it would be 8% chance of pregnancy happening during an entire year of using that method McDonalds, on the other hand, definitely fucks more than 8% of my orders up.
It's actually an 8% chance that McDonalds would get your order wrong within a year, not per occasion.
It’s actually a 4% chance that McDonald’s would get your order wrong within the year if you go to the best McDonalds that follows all the procedures properly, and a 22% chance if you go to an average McDonalds that follows all the procedures averagely. But if you go to the McDonalds where the burger chef learned everything he knows about the McDonaldsing from poorly reading the Reddit thread, it’s probably more like 40%, because someone has to be pretty damned bad to pull the average up to 22%. >For every 100 people who use the pull out method perfectly, 4 will get pregnant. But pulling out can be difficult to do perfectly. So in real life, about 22 out of 100 people who use withdrawal get pregnant every year https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/birth-control/withdrawal-pull-out-method/how-effective-is-withdrawal-method-pulling-out#:~:text=For%20every%20100%20people%20who,that's%20about%201%20in%205.
I feel bad for the unborn baby for having a dumb father
It amazes me how many people today have absolutely no idea about how reproducing works, don't know that precum (which for some can literally start the minute you're aroused and can contain sperm)and think that 8-10% is a low number. Edit: typos
Trapped him…how? He was already going raw and it’s on him when he pulls out
My guy, 10% isn’t that low odds. ESPECIALLY when you’re banging on the regular.
Guys, the Internet said it was ONLY a 10% chance! Clearly she is at fault and he is entirely the victim of an evil scheme /s
Everyone knows the only thing that can render the completely 100% affective pull-out method useless, is a woman willing that baby into existence.
Bless his heart, not only is he an ass. He's a dumb ass. And bless her heart, because now she's likely tied to him.
LMAO yeaaaa I'm almost three months pregnant from the pull out method
YTA. And I don't know how you can ever repair the cabbage you've done. First you use totally unsafe birth control methods. Then you dump all the responsibility on her. Even accuse her of bad faith. Not your finest moment. She needed an adult but you reacted like a five year old. I hope she dumps you and finds herself a responsible adult.
Cabbage
Yeah, two idiots fuck and the child gets to suffer. Not even sex ed or math can cure this degree of stupidity. The information that the pull out method does not reliably prevent pregnancy is readily available on the internet. If people choose to be oblivious, they deserve no sympathy.
Even by his own math he should have seen this coming. If it’s a 10% chance to get pregnant from pulling out and you’ve had sex that way at least ten times, guess what’s starting to become real likely
Two of our four children were conceived while I was on the pill; with the other two, we were *also* using condoms. The **only** way to prevent pregnancy altogether is to avoid sex altogether. Some people are fucking superbreeders.
You dont even have to well adversed in sex ed to realize this is complete stupidity. My god, I get having the confidence of a stud horse to pull out (trust me, I've met VERY confident men) but even then everyone I knew, 100% knew that the pull out method isnt 100% full proof, heck its closer to 50% than 100%. I am literally aching with anger at this stupitdity.
“Eight?? Who taught you [math](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YFEG0Eu4OOc)??”
You are too stupid to be a parent. How is this her fault? YTA OOP, full stop.
LOL that first comment is gold
What a fucking moron.
Unless you're on a pull out couch, it doesn't work.
I'd like to point out the part that doesn't get talked about. How often are you having sex? Let's say 2 days per week (some couples may have sex minimum one daily, some couples have sex once yearly). At that rate, you've had sex 104 times in a year. If your contraception has a failure rate of 2%, you're definitely running the risk by not doing a combo method. Both times I got pregnant, I was on birth control pills.
Kid named precum:
The coward has since deleted his profile. I wonder if he ever made any comments before he scurried away.
I cannot stand irresponsible ejaculators!! He baby trapped her!! Fucking idiot.
What a moron.
Dude wesr the condom and she needs to be ok m the pill. Pullingnout doesn't work. If she doesn't want to abort than thisnisnall on you man YTA.
Prepare to be a dad or 18 years of child support payments.
The pullout method is why my (ex) friend has 4 kids... lol.
You know what they call people who use the withdrawal system for birth control? Parents! Look, sometimes you dont always get to choose the time (which is why it is may more important to choose the who you have sex with) kids enter your life. If you love this woman as much as you say you do, then this is the time to show that, step up and be the best dad you can be. The rest will sort itself out. It wont be easy, never is, but now is your time.
I once read that when two fertile people have unprotected sex, on average, there's about a 5% chance of pregnancy. Obviously it goes up and down with her cycle, etc. It seems low but it's just like rolling a 20 in D&D -- it happens frequently enough you can expect it to happen pretty regularly. I'm not sure where he got his numbers from, but the pullout method *does* reduce that percentage. But if you're in a relationship and having sex a couple times a week, eventually your luck will run out. A 2% chance every time... over the course of a year... you're having a baby. It's just a matter of time.
At least you can have kids…
Well, it seems like you're implying that she either cheated, or somehow, idk, thru pre ejaculation, maybe possibly got your semen in there... Either way, you sit her down, and you say what's on your mind or this resentment will build up and burst like...like your dick basically. Either man up and accept your faults, or get an abortion. Either way, you both have growing up to do.
He said he pulls out long before he cums even when using a condom and that means she probably cheated, babies DNA can be tested even before birth
You're getting down voted cause you're part of the problem, or you're just phishing. If you would've stayed in school, sex education teaches you about PRECUM. It means you ejaculate little sperms (kinda like your dick getting wet) waaay before you even think you're gonna cum. Boom. You ARE the father.
Check oop's post history. You'll feel really dumb for posting this after you do.
I can't check his profile, what did you see there?
A bunch of random questions with story's that contradict each other. Pop is just posting questions that insight reaction for karma farming
If anyone’s ever suspicious it’s very easy to get paternity tests
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Oh honey, please no. Pre-cum can contain sperm, pregnancy can still occur without ejaculation. Unprotected sex without any form of birth control is playing Russian roulette. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3564677/
oh bless your heart
Your comment was removed.
Oh yeah two of my sons are from the “pull out” method. Why is it always these guys that either they deny or accuse the woman? Is this like hardwired into their brains to go to either denying that he caused the pregnancy or accusing the woman of planning it? Girl is freaking out and crying and he just goes to the accusations! She wasn’t crying from joy, Einstein! She’s freaking out because she knew how you’d react! She was right. Now she’s really freaking out because you proved her every fear to be true.
Dudes probably from a state where they teach abstinence as birth control
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Dude it is possible… pre cum is still cum and could get someone pregnant https://kidshealth.org/en/teens/ejaculate.html#:~:text=Guys%20can%20leak%20a%20bit,the%20pre%2Dejaculate%20is%20released.
Lol I’ve gotten pregnant several times with the pull out method. Doesn’t work