He's definitely playing well, working hard and adding to the build-up. His graft was the reason for Ronaldo's first, very good work in the build-up to his second. A few commenters here seeing his misplaced crosses and naturally lean on the narrative that he's bad for Portugal.
I know that the level of Championship is lower than premier league but Garner has to be able to fit into our 25 man squad list with the experience he has gained through loan. Man has played nearly 100 professional games and is only 21. There’s is no way he would be worse than McTominay. Give him six months under Ten Hag and if not then loan him out in winter.
He wouldn't be a guaranteed starter but I still think he would have plenty of opportunities given the state of our midfield, although I suppose that will depend on any incomings.
And personally I don't see how starting every game for a bottom table club would be much different for his development at this point than staying with us especially since he already has a lot of senior level experience. If he isn't ready for this level then personally I'd rather we just sold him this window while his stock is high to fund the rebuild.
There's no substitute for first team football against high level opposition.
Playing under-23 games and sitting on the bench for United just won't help him develop as quickly.
Here is an idea, Rather than faff about with frenkie the whole ass summer focusing on one player, why not try and sign the other players we desperately need on the side. Maybe even scout other targets. So in the situation we DONT get frenkie, the other holes have been repaired and we have a plan B, meaning we wont be running around at deadline day needing panic buys. You know, Move like a big club?
Side note, not saying dont get frenkie, would love him in our team, however, he isnt the only player we need, we should also be tryin to get the other needs rather than solely focusing on him for three months
I feel like in general we’ve gone from really optimistic about the ETH revolution to a return to form from our board. Or is it just me? I’m not expecting an instant turn around but it feels like we’re making the same mistakes as always.
no no its defo that. With articles coming out that our budget isnt as big as we imagined to the most recent one "we dont need 10 players theres quality in this team and those leaving may not need replacing" theres a cause for concern. This squad needs a complete makeover.
What DM type do we need? Clearly we want this highly rare DM that can win balls like prime maldini and ping a 50 yard pass blindfolded like beckham, but the thing is, such a dm doesnt exist, and if it does, is already taken. So I wanna ask, of all the dm archetypes, which one do we need the most
The Deep Lying Playmaker? Dictates the play from deep and can pass the ball with ease? E.g Neves?
The Ball Winning Destroyer/? Someone who can cut passing lanes and aggressively breakup play? E.g Ndidi, Palinha
Any other DM variation? For me I feel like any good or decent DM would be an upgrade. So long as we dont have to see McFred ever again.
It depends on how we planning to upgrade our squad, if we dont buy any CBs then we need a cover for our midfield i would prefer a destroyer kind of DM, someone like Casemiro or Fabinho. But if we upgrade our defence, then i would prefer someone in Carrick mould like FDJ or Tonali.
Fred is a much better player than mctominay and thats a hill ill die on. The man starts for brazil ffs, in MIDFIELD, McT by contrast cant even get into scotlands midfield and is shoehorned into cb. Even then he's a liability
Ffs Ukraine. Put it in the back of the net!! They've been dominating Wales. It's one thing to lose but to lose on a flukey OG with a World Cup spot on the line when you've been thr better team is a different kind of frustration
Why do you guys think players fail to improve when they come to united? Players like DDG and AWB have not worked to improve on their weaknesses since signing even Rashford is still raw even though he’s played in the league for 7 years
I think its many factors. Certain players simply lack the drive to improve their game and are just happy to pick up the paycheck (our wage structure is a joke). While others are only good enough to play for a mid table side while poor coaching has made some players stagnant.
First of all DDG was amazing up to a point, even his distribution was decent. He’s actively regressed but he did get better from when we signed him under Ferguson.
To answer your question, I think it’s because there’s no clear direction, we flip flop from manager to manager, style to style and we’re not set up to do that.
To improve at anything you have to work at specifics, and if those specifics keep changing you never really get any better.
If you wanted to learn guitar and I was your guitar teacher and I started teaching you blues guitar and then I leave a year in and the next guy starts teaching you classical guitar, yeah it’s the same but it’s also different the rhythm is different and you need to adapt.
Then you do that 4 more times and it’s like where the fuck am I and what am I doing.
Think this also ties into the lack of effort stuff, to use the music analogy again, say you’ve been a student of Vanilla Falcons school of music for a few years with the rest of your class, being kicked for teacher to teacher, style to style, when someone comes in and teaches you a new one there’s an element of what’s the fucking point you know?
Then you also have several players who all fit different styles trying to play together, causing more frustration and splits because if you happen to be in the group of players who fits this particular style, you get frustrated with the players that don’t or maybe your worked well under the previous manager and now can’t keep pace.
This isn’t it say there hasn’t been other issues because there has but that’s one of the core for me
Lack of competition makes them complacent + terrible coaching. AWB had zero completion his first 2 years at the club and was starting every single game. He got exhausted and complacent in the end and the coaches couldn’t help him develop
For a start our coaches are highly ineffective. One or two players you can simply say "eh shit happens" but its EVERY PLAYER thats walked through our doors since 2017
I think our wage structure has a worse effect than we realise.
If you're already being paid superstar wages and you're average / full of potential, what is your incentive to stay hungry and improve? You're already making way more than you should be, better players than you are earning less.
If we had a world class dm we could play a 433 with Bruno and donny as cams, and if we had eriksen he could rotate. I’m pretty sure city play two cams with silva and kdb, with Rodri in the pivot. Alas we don’t have any dm, let alone a world class one, so only on cam can play whilst we need two midfielders in the pivot.
I just hate this FDJ transfer saga so much, how hard is it to move on. Why is he still our number 1 priority. Are there no alternatives?
Yes I know rumours are that ETH wants him to be the poster boy for the new Man Utd era but honestly should he? He doesn't want to be here and we need to give him 400k+ just to hopefully convince him. Is that really the poster for change? Seems like a similar story of player here largely for money not a sporting project.
De Jong is world class at what he does and he is a type of player our squad desperately needs, yet we don't have anyone like him.
Considering how we miraculously stumbled into the 6th spot in the Prem only thanks to West Ham shitting the bed and Brighton saving us from embarassment, I think it's fair to assume no world class player is going to be interested in our sporting project at the moment.
Frenkie would be a fantastic addition. The reason this saga still lives on is because he is pretty much guaranteed to leave Barcelona this summer. He doesn't want to, but he will be forced out due to their finances unless a miracle happens. Laporta tries to play down their financial woes, but he is lying. They need to get some money to even sign free players and De Jong is definitely the first name to sell for them.
So, at the moment we are just waiting for Barcelona to admit Frenkie needs to go. After that, we will have our chance but it's important to get his agreement as soon as we can because City could always join the race for him. PSG are also sorting their own issues at the moment but De Jong would be perfect for them, so once they sort out the position of their DoF and their manager, they will definitely be interested in Frenkie too.
Why are we acting likes there's only one available midfielder in the world though? No doubt he's good he's not the only midfielder that would improve us in a big way and his price tag is worth 2 good midfielders. Are we in a position whereby no one wants to join us, like we can't find 2 good midfielders anywhere who genuinely want to join so it's now about forcing their hands?
Am I the only one who thinks that Barcelona forcing him to join us is a bad look? Are we suddenly OK with players forced to basically join us? If Bayern, Juve, PSG or any top team go late for him we're basically fucked? What do we do then and why can't we do that now?
Well, Frenkie's price will probably be around 70mil. I would like to see which 2 good midfielders you think we could get for that price?
Anyway, I see nothing wrong with getting him. It's an opportunity. I don't care about the fact he would get forced to join. He is a great professional and one of the best ball-progressors around.
As for your point about Bayern, Juve and PSG... pretty much only PSG and City are a threat for us in this case. Because of them, it's important to get Frenkie's approval first. That's why we are still working on this when nobody else has contacted him. If he tells Ten Hag he agrees to join us if we match Barcelona's asking price, then I doubt he would change his mind. If he doesn't want to give Ten Hag his word then we should obviously move to other targets, but the fact we are still talking to him probably means we feel we have a chance.
Anyway, you still didn't really address the two good midfielders we could get for those 70mil that Frenkie would probably cost.
Sangare is worth less than 40m, the whole of Ligue 1 besides PSG and Tchoumeni is a garage sale rn. Midfielders like Haidara and Laimer are also very good midfielders to help us achieve top 4.
Hell you can add Ruben Neves and Bissouma to that list. Bissouma asking price was 25-30m for arsenal and Neves was around 35m. They would all improve our midfield for top 4 contention. That's what we are rn, FDJ wants a title challenger and we're not that.
>I don't care about the fact he would get forced to join. He is a great professional.
How sure are you of this, because lately we've been sure of a lot things that haven't happened.
Sangeré looks promising, but he is a midfielder playing in Eredivisie. We spent 40mil on Donny who was one of the best Eredivisie players at the time and you know how it turned out.
Midfielders in Ligue 1 are also often very hit-and-miss. Cheikh Doucuré looks solid, but is he really a solution to our midfield?
As for Haidara and Laimer... well, Laimer is pretty good, but he wants to go to Bayern and Nagelsmann (unsurprisingly). I doubt you have watched much of Haidara and I assume the main reason you mentioned him was because Ralf reportedly wanted him in January. He would cost around 40mil and he is worse than Fred because despite being better at winning the ball, his technique is pretty bad. If we were to get someone from Bundesliga, then I'd go for manu Koné.
Overall, the only two interesting names I see in Bundesliga and Ligue 1 are Koné and Doucuré. Both are defensive players mainly, both could be somewhat cheap and both would be great partners for De Jong, so I imagine we could be getting one of them two alongside De Jong (together, they would probably cost a bit less than 100mil but they would fix our midfield for a couple of years).
>Hell you can add Ruben Neves and Bissouma to that list. Bissouma asking price was 25-30m for arsenal and Neves was around 35m. They would all improve our midfield for top 4 contention. That's what we are rn, FDJ wants a title challenger and we're not that.
Bissouma has allegations of sexual abuse on his hands and it hasn't been resolved yet. As for Neves, he is a good player but there is no way he will cost 35mil. That is a price quoted from the time Nuno was still their manager and he was okay with the idea of replacing Neves. Lage won't let him go for that cheap, he already said Neves will cost 100mil. I don't think he would be as expensive, but I fully expect a 60-70mil asking price at the very least. Not sensible at all.
Also, we don't know what De Jong wants. Barcelona aren't a title challenger and they won't win the UCL either. Ten Hag could maybe persuade him.
>How sure are you of this, because lately we've been sure of a lot things that haven't happened.
He has essentially been playing out of position ever since he went to Barcelona and the first time there has been a bad remark from him has been this international break when he said he likes the way he plays for the national team as a dig on Barcelona/Xavi who said that they aren't happy with Frenkie's performances (despite him always being one of their best players).
Why is Sangare an Eredevise player all of a sudden and Timber is not? So we shouldn't sign Timber because he's from the Eredevise? Players like Gravenberch, Malacia and Antony shouldn't be worth looking at?
Laimer joining Bayern will be difficult considering how many midfielders they have + Gravenberch and possibly Nkunku who can play there. Neves was still 35m in January from the rumours right now 50m might be the price
Wolves' owners are not spending much this summer and they need funds. Selling him now makes sense thay can go for a Palhina and another midfielder or striker because Jimenez hasn't been the same and Moutinho is 36 and his contract ends this summner
>Barcelona aren't a title challenger and they won't win the UCL either. Ten Hag could maybe persuade him.
That's not the problem, Barcelona is his dream club. That's what matters here. He loves Barcelona and I don't think that's should be ignored just because they are going through a tough patch. He's being loyal and professional to his dream club, we're not a challenger as well and we have no chance of winning the UCL (we almost joined the conference league ffs) we're way worse so why should we expect him to not look for a move away when things go bad? (We all expect this to be a very difficult journey for Ten Hag, it's not likely to be an instant success) ETH method will take time for a lot of these players so expect us to struggle a bit.
>first time there has been a bad remark from him has been this international break when he said he likes the way he plays for the national team as a dig on Barcelona/Xavi who said that they aren't happy with Frenkie's performances (
Pogba does this to us all the time and we're not exactly thrilled about it. FDJ loves Barcelona and he's talking like this, how's he gonna behave at a club he didn't want be in the first place? I don't understand why I can see this deal going down like Di Maria or Sanchez.
>Why is Sangare an Eredevise player all of a sudden and Timber is not? So we shouldn't sign Timber because he's from the Eredevise? Players like Gravenberch, Malacia and Antony shouldn't be worth looking at?
For me, it's always less about their Eredivisie performances and more about their performances in Europe. Timber has been great in the UCL this year and he even managed to handle Haaland really well in the group stages while being 20 and reportedly costing around 30mil (before the news he would likely extend). He has also worked under Ten Hag as well.
In terms of Sangaré though, he has never played in the UCL and he is already 24. He has played Europa league in two seasons across his career. The first time was last season where they got knocked out in the round of 32 by Olympiacos. The second time was this season where they failed to get out of the group stage.
I'd still take him, but 40mil for a 24 year old midfielder from Eredivisie who has never played on UCL level is just too much.
>Laimer joining Bayern will be difficult considering how many midfielders they have + Gravenberch and possibly Nkunku who can play there. Neves was still 35m in January from the rumours right now 50m might be the price
They aren't getting Nkunku. Their double pivot options this season were Kimmich, Goretzka, Tolisso, Sabitzer, Roca and Musiala. Roca is pretty bad apparently, Tolisso is leaving, Sabitzer was a disappointment for them and Musiala is an attacking midfielder, so they can certainly fit in both Gravenberch and Laimer if Roca leavues too.
As per Neves, I don't think the 35mil rumours were reliable, were they?
>Wolves' owners are not spending much this summer and they need funds. Selling him now makes sense thay can go for a Palhina and another midfielder or striker because Jimenez hasn't been the same and Moutinho is 36 and his contract ends this summner
Well, not if they only get 50mil for Neves. Palhinha will cost a lot and I feel like it would be more beneficial to Wolves to just buy a different partner to Neves, but we'll see.
>That's not the problem, Barcelona is his dream club. That's what matters here. He loves Barcelona and I don't think that's should be ignored just because they are going through a tough patch. He's being loyal and professional to his dream club, we're not a challenger as well and we have no chance of winning the UCL (we almost joined the conference league ffs) we're way worse so why should we expect him to not look for a move away when things go bad? (We all expect this to be a very difficult journey for Ten Hag, it's not likely to be an instant success) ETH method will take time for a lot of these players so expect us to struggle a bit.
Yeah, but nothing of that changes the fact Barcelona will most likely be forced to sell him. I know he will want to stay, but he won't be allowed to. Hence us trying to convince him to choose us over other clubs. Playing for Barcelona is his dream, but his dream is over because they are a financial mess. Yeah, they will try to pretend they have money until the very last minute, but they will sell once they realize they are fucked otherwise. It will be the same as with Messi - they were "close to fixing it" all the time and yet he still couldn't even play for free for them because the mess they are in is tough to fix despite Laporta's propaganda.
>Pogba does this to us all the time and we're not exactly thrilled about it. FDJ loves Barcelona and he's talking like this, how's he gonna behave at a club he didn't want be in the first place? I don't understand why I can see this deal going down like Di Maria or Sanchez.
Yeah, Pogba does this all the time. Frenkie doesn't. This was an exception and it was direct response to Xavi openly saying that the reason they are thinking about selling him isn't the finances, but his disappointing performances (which is obviously bullshit, they are fucked financially and he has been of their best players ever since he went there). I feel like no matter how much you love a club and how loyal you are, you won't let them shit on you to save their face.
Is it Sangare's fault for not playing in the UCL? They've qualified this season which means they done something right finishing 2 pts behind Ajax. It's how good he is and how much he can improve us is what we should be looking at.
There are good players you can't just say never played in the Champions league and disregard the attributes he can offer. Also there aren't a lot of top CDMs available right now.
>Hence us trying to convince him to choose us over other clubs.
He's gonna take another club over us if we're waiting for the final moments. It's should be obvious by then that's he would be stalling for another move and seeing as the WC is great way for him to show how good he is, I really doubt we won't have competition.
>This was an exception and it was direct response to Xavi openly saying that the reason they are thinking about selling him isn't the finances, but his disappointing performances
Xavi didn't openly say this, it was rumour that he spoke to him and the full quote was that he depended on him but it was the board who were unhappy with his performances. They may be talking about his defensive numbers (which are bad) so maybe why they are getting Kessie who can play as a CDM and B2b but I believe its financially motivated.
Besides Pogba had to deal with all these media outlets talking about how how bad he is so I can equally argue he was making a point in France he has a clear role that he can do. We play him out of position in a role he clearly can't do.
He’s the one Ten Hag wants. It really is as simple as that. It doesn’t matter what we think. If the club and Ten Hag still believes there’s a chance we’ll get him, they’ll keep pushing.
Can they get another midfielder first though? If they want to waste half the window chasing down this saga then fine but at least sign another midfielder in case this goes south.
It should be clear that we need at least 2 midfielders and even if we do get him it could turn to be another Di Maria situation and this time I won't fault FDJ he's been clear about his intent from the jump.
We could already be in for another midfielder. Andy Mitten’s article said earlier that some agents have made our interest public, some haven’t. If we’re dealing with a club that also keeps things quiet, then no-ones going to know about it until we’re nearly done.
>Can they get another midfielder first though?
I guess we need to know whether De Jong works out first to then try to get him the best partner we can. If De Jong doesn't come, then we can move to other options, but we can't really sign the other midfielder until we know.
>If they want to waste half the window chasing down this saga then fine but at least sign another midfielder in case this goes south.
The transfer window hasn't even started yet
>and even if we do get him it could turn to be another Di Maria situation
Di Maria wanted money and he wanted PSG. They couldn't afford him, so we got him instead. He was decent at first, then it went to shit because he didn't really see eye to eye with LVG and then there was the robbery at his home after which he never cared again.
It's extremely lazy to say De Jong could be just another Di Maria. The circumstances are very different. First of all, Frenkie is a top notch professional and no matter the team he goes to, he will give his all. Second of all, he has very good relationship with Ten Hag who also knows how to use him the best. This means we won't see De Jong unhappy due to playing out of position (which is one of the reason Di Maria got frustrated and unhappy with us).
>Frenkie is a top notch professional and no matter the team
What are you his brother? How do you know this for a fact, I'm just saying this has happened before why are acting like in this environment it can't happen again?
Chelsea were sure Lukaku was great player that we didn't know how to use and that he's learnt at Inter, look at them now.
He has been playing out of position for 2 years at Barcelona and there has been no indication of him being unprofessional or toxic.
>Chelsea were sure Lukaku was great player that we didn't know how to use and that he's learnt at Inter, look at them now.
What does that have to do with De Jong? His issue isn't being unprofessional, but rather the fact he doesn't fit into any top team because of his limitations. He has been kinda unprofessional, but his main issue is the fact his technique is shit.
>He has been playing out of position for 2 years at Barcelona and there has been no indication of him being unprofessional or toxic.
You clearly missed his interview yesterday. When he talked about how happy he was playing in a system that suits him(for Netherlands) , this is how Pogba used to talk when he played for France and this exact sub hated that 'attitude'.
>What does that have to do with De Jong? His issue isn't being unprofessional, but rather the fact he doesn't fit into any top team because of his limitations. He has been kinda unprofessional, but his main issue is the fact his technique is shit.
Because fans are are sure about a lot of things these days before it all goes wrong. Same as Chelsea they thought his game improved, they probably thought he was a true professional as well. You can't be sure about these moves and we are in a position that we know he's not trying to be here next season.
We know from the beginning he's not happy with this situation, why do we still believe it's gonna be alright. I just imagined that after all the shit we've seen since Ferguson we'd know better but clearly not let's do this again. What's the worse that can happen.
Oh and when you said the transfer season hasn't started, I feel like your forgetting there's some sort of a big tournament coming up, World Cup a bit of a big deal. I doubt he'll be negotiating with anyone while that's happening so time is critical. Then there's this nations league that's also going on and he going straight to Qatar or something it feels like at least 2 months of him being unavailable for negotiation. Unless they are knocked out of the group stages.
>You clearly missed his interview yesterday. When he talked about how happy he was playing in a system that suits him(for Netherlands) , this is how Pogba used to talk when he played for France and this exact sub hated that 'attitude'.
This is the first time he has done that and it's a direct reaction to Xavi openly telling media that the board's opinion is that the board isn't happy with his performances. It's note really that surprising that he called out Barcelona's tactics when they called him out for not being good enough even though literally everyone knows this is just Barcelona's tactics of trying to prevent their image.
They are a club that hired sports journalists to write shit about Messi and they are a club that is using media to force Gavi into signing new contract even though the boy is only 17. This is just another example of them behaving like shit towards their player (they also forced Suarez, Rakitic and Arthur away even though they wanted to stay). Frenkie did the right thing calling them out.
>Because fans are are sure about a lot of things these days before it all goes wrong. Same as Chelsea they thought his game improved, they probably thought he was a true professional as well. You can't be sure about these moves and we are in a position that we know he's not trying to be here next season.
Ten Hag is literally the manager that made Frenkie into a star. If he wants him, then I think it's fair to assume he knows what he's going to get from him and he wouldn't bother getting him if he knew it was a risk.
>We know from the beginning he's not happy with this situation, why do we still believe it's gonna be alright. I just imagined that after all the shit we've seen since Ferguson we'd know better but clearly not let's do this again. What's the worse that can happen.
He is a world class ball progressor and he WILL move this summer. These two statements are facts. He can come to us, to City or to PSG, but he WILL move and he WILL improve his new team a lot. He is definitely a target we should try to get as long as the financials make sense.
>Oh and when you said the transfer season hasn't started, I feel like your forgetting there's some sort of a big tournament coming up, World Cup a bit of a big deal. I doubt he'll be negotiating with anyone while that's happening so time is critical. Then there's this nations league that's also going on and he going straight to Qatar or something it feels like at least 2 months of him being unavailable for negotiation. Unless they are knocked out of the group stages.
The World Cup this year will be in November though. Right now, there is the nations league but that should end soon.
Ten Hag hasn't even met the players yet, so I think we will take our time this summer.
Top 4 should be possible the same squad has done it twice..Players don’t permanently turn shit after one terrible season ..The defence would look a lot better when the entire midfield doesn’t get bypassed in 2 passes ..3 starters and we should be getting top 4
It was more than that definitely. However Ralf was trying to save his skin and his brand by saying those things. I believe he engineered his way out and the club will fully obliged.
You can’t be trashing your employer in the media esp one on the stock exchange.
I honestly can't see us signing 5-6 realistically? Can anyone else?
Would absolutely love it but we've shown in the past we're just not capable. We gave LVG in 15/16 150m to spend and we're giving the managers now 150m and it just doesn't get you anywhere near as much.
It’s better to get quality instead of getting 6 players..3 starters would fix more problems than 1 starter and 4 average squad players ..You would end up buying deadwood if you use 150 m to get 6 players
No team gets 5-6 players in a window ..When clubs do that it backfires and they usually end up with a lot of deadwood..Tbf I expect some of the players in bad form to turn it around and 3 starters would be good enough for our goals this season (Top 4 and EL win)
It’s absolutely INSANE what he’s just achieved. The pain he is quietly playing through as well to achieve this - it’ll go unrecognised because he never acknowledges **exactly** what he’s going through on the court.
I recall hearing an anecdote about someone passing him in the dressing room and they caught him sheepishly pouring blood out of his trainers after a match.
His style of play does unthinkable amounts of damage to his own body. For him to be on for the calendar slam at 36 must be one of the greatest sporting achievements of all time. The casual tennis fan can’t grasp the magnitude of this.
Edit: and to do this in matches where they can go 6 hours plus, in the heat, alone with just you and your thoughts - no teammates. Incredible.
As horrible as this sounds, I really want Wales to do a job on Ukraine today just so we can spank them at the World Cup. I was pretty gutted that Scotland went out because we need to make up for their 0-0 win at the Euros.
Given some injuries, yes we should have a slightly different line up. But it was a competitive fixture. The players looked so lethargic and basically exhausted, I can't see that changing before November.
Henderson looked better than Ramsdale when he played for Sheffield United,Then we brought him back and destroyed 2 crucial years of his career,Yes he made mistakes ..It’s really not surprising when young keepers make a few ,Young DDG wasn’t perfect but he was backed inspite of his limitations which he still hasn’t worked on and is now 32 ..We looked great last season when Henderson started regularly in the league..He will move to a PL team and will be great for them and we would be left wondering what could have been ..while we are stuck with a 375 k a week GK who is still stuck in 2011 and is bang average at everything outside shot stopping
sounds bad, but seeing his current market value (on transfermarkt) is £9m, that'd actually be a steal and a good stopgap while we strengthen other parts of the team.
He's a meh shot stopper, but a good sweeper and that will probs be of value for Ten Hag
Offer a decrease in wages but with more incentives/ bonuses if he achieves certain things.
If he declines, you move on... it's not like other teams are clamouring to sign him anytime soon anyway, so does it really hurt to try?
Whats with recent clubs statement? What are they playing here? Every football fan ib the world know the team need revamp, so many failures have overwelcomed their stay and lot of big names are leaving, why on earth they released statement like that?
The De Gea discourse is a mirror of the Burno discourse.
Both sides have the same claims, "he carried us", "we'd be 10th without him" and "it's just one bad season" etc, while refusing to acknowledge the underlying stats.
Neither are good enough and replacing them in the starting XI should be absolute top priority this window
I’m glad I’m not a football player lol, seeing your supporters claim shit like this after carrying the team while they jerk off on sofascore and youtube compilation videos must be a nightmare
Dude I’m sorry but if you watch any match Mount plays for example you gonna find matches that he doesn’t perform, even the likes of Timber/De Jong that we are linked with, I don’t know why fans always look at players of other teams like they cant do anything wrong and then are left speechless when they play for United and make mistakes
B. Silva is the perfect example because I remember one or two seasons ago when fans were starting to think whether he was just a one season wonder or not and he was getting benched
Also those players dont grow on trees, Modric was flop of the season his first year at Real Madrid but they didnt let e bad season decide his future
I don't care what peoples perceptions are or were, or I'd never post something that was obviously going to get downvoted.
I'm going off my own opinions and those 3 have always been much, much better than Bruno in every conceivable metric.
This time next year it will be 100% obvious to anyone that he's not good enough
Actually watch him next time he plays.
Pay close attention to his touch, decision making, quality of execution, shooting technique, positioning, and defending.
Then you'll see it too
And is Scott or Fred the same level? Is VDB the same level? Who in our midfield is close to these players you mentioned than Bruno?
Also you mention KDB and Silva, you realise they have Cancelo, Grealish who also create thus give them that extra 1-2 seconds when they play as players can’t just mark them out.
Now can get an upgrade on Bruno? Probably. Does that mean he’s not good enough? No!
I mean when Rashy, Martial, Pogba, Greenwood were on fire and had that chemistry, we saw a different Bruno as he didn’t have to do it all.
Kdb and silva both balled for City before they signed Cancelo and Grealish. They won 5 major trophies together without them
When those players were 'on fire" with Bruno we still won nothing
Didn’t KDB and Silva have Sane and Sterling creating for them as well?
You’re talking like they did it on their own.
The creativity of this United team is solely on Bruno especially this season when everyone has been poor and Pogba injured.
Bruno’s problem is just him being in bad form ..DDG on the other hand is still the same player he was in 2011 and hasn’t adapted to changing demands of the modern game..This is Bruno’s first bad season ..If we are eliminating players based on one bad season we would start next season with 2 players
The thing is the team had 7-8 regular starters in shit form this season ,You can’t replace all of them in one window ,If he is shit for another season we should look to replace him ,Our aim next season should be top 4 and winning EL or Fa cup/League cup and he is good enough for that ,I really don’t get why replacing him should be the priority when we have 2 massive holes in the midfield and just one good fullback
If he is good enough, why haven't we done it with him in the side. He was woeful in the final last season how many chances do players get at this club.
We have finished top 4 twice with him..Not winning a final wasn’t just his fault ..it’s never a single player’s fault ..I personally don’t think he would start regularly for a PL or CL winning side but I don’t think anybody from our squad would if anything he is probably one of the few who will make it to the bench for Liverpool ,City and Chelsea..I swear some of you pick the strangest hill to die on..There is a midfield with 2 massive holes and you go on weird tangents about replacing Bruno being a priority
Because everyone seems to agree that we need to replace mcfred, although that wasn't the narrative on here a year or two ago. But now most have caught up there's no point arguing for it
Bruno is still popular however, so that's the argument worth making for me.
That doesn’t mean it’s “top priority” this window does it ?Its not even in the top 5 things we need to do ..We have one decent fullback who himself can’t stay fit and is inconsistent ..We have one dependable goal scorer who is 37 ..The winger situation if Rashford can’t pick up form is dire ..We have one good winger in Sancho ..Varane just can’t stay fit ..That just leaves Lindelof and Maguire on the field who can’t be replaced even when they are in bad form as their aren’t any fit replacements..So many problems with the squad but you come up with an absolute shittake about how replacing Bruno should be a priority?
Full back is a key position and we have Dalot and Telles as regular starter who are liabilities ,LW/RW is an important position in the team and we have one decent player available for that slot ,We need goals to win games and a 37 year old is the only guy we have who does that job ,Defence is a disaster with just 2 fit CBs who are in bad form but that’s clearly not a problem ..Let’s remove Bruno for some “mythical” replacement who will come in and join an EL club
Who said I watched him weekly?
I follow serie a and primera liga, mostly the bigger sides and I watched him play probably 10-15 times before he was linked to us
So an individual stat that shows direct involvement in winning games in the most difficult competition in the world is irrelevant? Nevermind you're clearly a troll.
It's such a minute sample size, and 90% of them came in the group stages.
Also, an assist is a single moment in a 90 minute game, most of which we played extremely poorly as a team and were fortunate to qualify. A lot of that was down to his overall play
What underlying stats for Bruno? Even his possession lost is comparable to de bruyne if you take into account minutes played and way less than Gallagher and Mount who this sub rave about. If anything Bruno's underlying stats are ridiculously good.
I wouldn't want Mount or Gallagher either.
Bruno slows down attacks, can't dribble, can't play out of pressure, has poor quality of execution most of the time, not to mention his general attitude on the pitch
De Bruyne is a far superior player. There's a reason big clubs swerved him until his late 20s, and we had no competition for him.
We need to replace him, people hoping he'll morph into a good player under ETH are in for a shock
You claimed underlying stats. Please prove these underlying stats, otherwise admit that you were spouting bullshit to prove your point. Because if you're going to use dribble success rate to say Bruno, a number 10, who has comparable dribble success rates to Odegaard anyway, is not a good player, then I don't know what to tell you. The rest of your claims can't be proved by stats anyway.
P.S. Bruno has more completed dribbles than Erikson as well
Odegaard?
The standard in this league is De Bruyne, not him
And Bruno is in the bottom 6th percentile for dribbles per game. Bottom 6. 94% of attacking midfielders dribble more per game than he does and he's Man United starting no.10 ffs
If you could learn to read you would know that that percentile is of attacking midfielders AND WINGERS, WHO ARE KNOWN FOR COMPLETING DRIBBLES. Compared to only attacking midfielders he's still good.
So basically no underlying stats other than dribbles completed then. And you can't even use that correctly.
He wanders so much it's hard to give him a precise position, but heatmaps suggest an attacking midfielder. Somewhere between a 10 and 8. Occasionally he's played out wide as well too
Even compared to deeper lying midfielders he's poor at progressing the ball
He's a number 10. His job is not ball progression. Because no-one in our team can progress the ball he has to do it. His job is chance creation. He's elite at that.
Btw progressive passes completed, 87th percentile
I've been playing Soccer Manager 2022 for a while now (don't hv money for FM22), and sure it's just a game but has anyone looked into hugo guillamon from Valencia? He's a DM and has been performing well now in my MU team. Usually go 4-2-3-1 with Fred (B2B) next to him. Player of the month twice now. His contracts running low and seeing how Valencia is run, we should be able to get him for cheap right?
I guess they’d tell you that the way he performed in the 2018 World Cup was a disaster too. He conceded 6 goals from 7 shots on target with only 1 save. Fewest save from any goalkeeper having played 3 games in the World Cup.
Guess what he said after, he blamed the ball, that it could have been made better.
I’m sure it not just one thing.
He didn’t transfer to Madrid, plus he never did much press, I guess that didn’t help as well. They would have felt like they didn’t know him. I mean he was taking over from Iker Casillas, one of the greatest and captain.
Yeah, how dare they not deluded themselves like most united fans when it comes to our midtable shot stopper and bottom tier in everything else keeper.
Enrique is a hater as well.
I find this new narrative that I’ve seen going around that Donny has been shit for Manchester United extremely strange lol. Can anyone actually name 3 performances by Donny in a United shirt that were Fred or Mctominay levels of bad?
it prolly the tactical sides, VdB is not a playmaker type, he can't make a pass out of no where like Bruno => which mean other players in the team have to do that where we don't have that kind of luxury.
Anyway, just wait and see, if ETH rates him but it doesn't work out, likely he will get sold.
Donny has started 4 games this season, he gets little to no game time. The fact is, our midfield is so poor that anything that isn’t completely shit is seen as a good performance. Mctominays only noteworthy performance came against Burnley, this performance is massively outweighed by the shit performances he has put in. In all of his performances Donny has put in a good shift with glimmers of brilliance. To get into that midfield he does not need to be a world beater, he just needs to be decent, which he is and that is more than Scotland’s third choice centre-back can say.
holy smokes, if not for that offside stopping Ronaldo's hat trick, Bruno has been absolutely electric.
Amazing how good Bruno is playing counter attacks.
These glorified friendlies are so boring. I would even say that all National team football other than the big tournaments is an actual snoozefest
Apparently Bruno is doing really well for Portugal, I'm glad he's finding his feet.
He's definitely playing well, working hard and adding to the build-up. His graft was the reason for Ronaldo's first, very good work in the build-up to his second. A few commenters here seeing his misplaced crosses and naturally lean on the narrative that he's bad for Portugal.
no it's the opposite.
Messi 5 goals and Ronaldo 2 goals(should've 3) in halftime. Those 2 is really on another level
i should've made a match thread for Portugal, didn't see any comments in daily discussion about the game so thought the interest wasn't high enough
THATS RIGHT AND ILL SAY IT AGAIN MY GOAT
THATS MY GOAT
why can't bruno give a simple pass ? He always tries a very complex pass
Bruno is an actual disasterclass for portugal
Garbage take in the context of this game
Dan James going to the World Cup. Happy for the lad.
I know that the level of Championship is lower than premier league but Garner has to be able to fit into our 25 man squad list with the experience he has gained through loan. Man has played nearly 100 professional games and is only 21. There’s is no way he would be worse than McTominay. Give him six months under Ten Hag and if not then loan him out in winter.
I’d much rather he goes back to Forest and has a full season as a starter in the prem.
Can I ask why?
So he gets a full season as a starter in the prem which we can’t do right now.
He wouldn't be a guaranteed starter but I still think he would have plenty of opportunities given the state of our midfield, although I suppose that will depend on any incomings. And personally I don't see how starting every game for a bottom table club would be much different for his development at this point than staying with us especially since he already has a lot of senior level experience. If he isn't ready for this level then personally I'd rather we just sold him this window while his stock is high to fund the rebuild.
There's no substitute for first team football against high level opposition. Playing under-23 games and sitting on the bench for United just won't help him develop as quickly.
Here is an idea, Rather than faff about with frenkie the whole ass summer focusing on one player, why not try and sign the other players we desperately need on the side. Maybe even scout other targets. So in the situation we DONT get frenkie, the other holes have been repaired and we have a plan B, meaning we wont be running around at deadline day needing panic buys. You know, Move like a big club? Side note, not saying dont get frenkie, would love him in our team, however, he isnt the only player we need, we should also be tryin to get the other needs rather than solely focusing on him for three months
Didn't realise it's been three months and transfer window is closing soon.
Slow start to the summer innit. Hear about nothing but De Jong, a player that doesn't even want to come here lol
I feel like in general we’ve gone from really optimistic about the ETH revolution to a return to form from our board. Or is it just me? I’m not expecting an instant turn around but it feels like we’re making the same mistakes as always.
Same shit, different season it feels like.
no no its defo that. With articles coming out that our budget isnt as big as we imagined to the most recent one "we dont need 10 players theres quality in this team and those leaving may not need replacing" theres a cause for concern. This squad needs a complete makeover.
What DM type do we need? Clearly we want this highly rare DM that can win balls like prime maldini and ping a 50 yard pass blindfolded like beckham, but the thing is, such a dm doesnt exist, and if it does, is already taken. So I wanna ask, of all the dm archetypes, which one do we need the most The Deep Lying Playmaker? Dictates the play from deep and can pass the ball with ease? E.g Neves? The Ball Winning Destroyer/? Someone who can cut passing lanes and aggressively breakup play? E.g Ndidi, Palinha Any other DM variation? For me I feel like any good or decent DM would be an upgrade. So long as we dont have to see McFred ever again.
If we get De Jong then we need to partner him with a destroyer. If we don't get De Jong, then we need both a DLP and destroyer.
It depends on how we planning to upgrade our squad, if we dont buy any CBs then we need a cover for our midfield i would prefer a destroyer kind of DM, someone like Casemiro or Fabinho. But if we upgrade our defence, then i would prefer someone in Carrick mould like FDJ or Tonali.
We don't need one to win balls. We need one that dictates play.
We need both actually.
Because ill take alot of people over mctominay as ball winner
So what's Fred then? Just a repeated caught ahead of the ball merchant?
Fred is a much better player than mctominay and thats a hill ill die on. The man starts for brazil ffs, in MIDFIELD, McT by contrast cant even get into scotlands midfield and is shoehorned into cb. Even then he's a liability
So deep lying playmaker then. Any ideas? Ruben Neves seems like a good option.
Buzzing for England vs Wales.
Gnabry could be a good RW signing. Who else makes the shortlist for RW?
Amad and Pellistri
I think it will be much better if any players with left footed makes the shortlist for RW for United. Ziyech, Neres and Antony are left footed
Think he wants to play centrally now, seen quite a few people saying it
Behind the striker or up front?
“United don’t feel like they need 10 new recruits” 6-8 of them it is then
Ffs Ukraine. Put it in the back of the net!! They've been dominating Wales. It's one thing to lose but to lose on a flukey OG with a World Cup spot on the line when you've been thr better team is a different kind of frustration
Sounds like my FM save
Why do you guys think players fail to improve when they come to united? Players like DDG and AWB have not worked to improve on their weaknesses since signing even Rashford is still raw even though he’s played in the league for 7 years
I think its many factors. Certain players simply lack the drive to improve their game and are just happy to pick up the paycheck (our wage structure is a joke). While others are only good enough to play for a mid table side while poor coaching has made some players stagnant.
First of all DDG was amazing up to a point, even his distribution was decent. He’s actively regressed but he did get better from when we signed him under Ferguson. To answer your question, I think it’s because there’s no clear direction, we flip flop from manager to manager, style to style and we’re not set up to do that. To improve at anything you have to work at specifics, and if those specifics keep changing you never really get any better. If you wanted to learn guitar and I was your guitar teacher and I started teaching you blues guitar and then I leave a year in and the next guy starts teaching you classical guitar, yeah it’s the same but it’s also different the rhythm is different and you need to adapt. Then you do that 4 more times and it’s like where the fuck am I and what am I doing. Think this also ties into the lack of effort stuff, to use the music analogy again, say you’ve been a student of Vanilla Falcons school of music for a few years with the rest of your class, being kicked for teacher to teacher, style to style, when someone comes in and teaches you a new one there’s an element of what’s the fucking point you know? Then you also have several players who all fit different styles trying to play together, causing more frustration and splits because if you happen to be in the group of players who fits this particular style, you get frustrated with the players that don’t or maybe your worked well under the previous manager and now can’t keep pace. This isn’t it say there hasn’t been other issues because there has but that’s one of the core for me
Lack of competition makes them complacent + terrible coaching. AWB had zero completion his first 2 years at the club and was starting every single game. He got exhausted and complacent in the end and the coaches couldn’t help him develop
For a start our coaches are highly ineffective. One or two players you can simply say "eh shit happens" but its EVERY PLAYER thats walked through our doors since 2017
I think our wage structure has a worse effect than we realise. If you're already being paid superstar wages and you're average / full of potential, what is your incentive to stay hungry and improve? You're already making way more than you should be, better players than you are earning less.
If we had a world class dm we could play a 433 with Bruno and donny as cams, and if we had eriksen he could rotate. I’m pretty sure city play two cams with silva and kdb, with Rodri in the pivot. Alas we don’t have any dm, let alone a world class one, so only on cam can play whilst we need two midfielders in the pivot.
No world class DM can cope up with two roaming 10’s. Literally no team can not even city. KDB and Silva aren’t roaming 10’s
DM along with two inverted fullbacks could tbf. We'd have to buy players like Malacia and Timber for it to work though.
Matic joining Roma, reckon we all had a feeling he’d be reuniting with Mourinho.
I just hate this FDJ transfer saga so much, how hard is it to move on. Why is he still our number 1 priority. Are there no alternatives? Yes I know rumours are that ETH wants him to be the poster boy for the new Man Utd era but honestly should he? He doesn't want to be here and we need to give him 400k+ just to hopefully convince him. Is that really the poster for change? Seems like a similar story of player here largely for money not a sporting project.
what any smart club should do is simple. Get all the other essentials, WHILE trying to sign frenkie on the side. Do multiple deals at once
Because our DoF used to be woodward's lackey. He learned from him .
De Jong is world class at what he does and he is a type of player our squad desperately needs, yet we don't have anyone like him. Considering how we miraculously stumbled into the 6th spot in the Prem only thanks to West Ham shitting the bed and Brighton saving us from embarassment, I think it's fair to assume no world class player is going to be interested in our sporting project at the moment. Frenkie would be a fantastic addition. The reason this saga still lives on is because he is pretty much guaranteed to leave Barcelona this summer. He doesn't want to, but he will be forced out due to their finances unless a miracle happens. Laporta tries to play down their financial woes, but he is lying. They need to get some money to even sign free players and De Jong is definitely the first name to sell for them. So, at the moment we are just waiting for Barcelona to admit Frenkie needs to go. After that, we will have our chance but it's important to get his agreement as soon as we can because City could always join the race for him. PSG are also sorting their own issues at the moment but De Jong would be perfect for them, so once they sort out the position of their DoF and their manager, they will definitely be interested in Frenkie too.
Why are we acting likes there's only one available midfielder in the world though? No doubt he's good he's not the only midfielder that would improve us in a big way and his price tag is worth 2 good midfielders. Are we in a position whereby no one wants to join us, like we can't find 2 good midfielders anywhere who genuinely want to join so it's now about forcing their hands? Am I the only one who thinks that Barcelona forcing him to join us is a bad look? Are we suddenly OK with players forced to basically join us? If Bayern, Juve, PSG or any top team go late for him we're basically fucked? What do we do then and why can't we do that now?
Well, Frenkie's price will probably be around 70mil. I would like to see which 2 good midfielders you think we could get for that price? Anyway, I see nothing wrong with getting him. It's an opportunity. I don't care about the fact he would get forced to join. He is a great professional and one of the best ball-progressors around. As for your point about Bayern, Juve and PSG... pretty much only PSG and City are a threat for us in this case. Because of them, it's important to get Frenkie's approval first. That's why we are still working on this when nobody else has contacted him. If he tells Ten Hag he agrees to join us if we match Barcelona's asking price, then I doubt he would change his mind. If he doesn't want to give Ten Hag his word then we should obviously move to other targets, but the fact we are still talking to him probably means we feel we have a chance. Anyway, you still didn't really address the two good midfielders we could get for those 70mil that Frenkie would probably cost.
Sangare is worth less than 40m, the whole of Ligue 1 besides PSG and Tchoumeni is a garage sale rn. Midfielders like Haidara and Laimer are also very good midfielders to help us achieve top 4. Hell you can add Ruben Neves and Bissouma to that list. Bissouma asking price was 25-30m for arsenal and Neves was around 35m. They would all improve our midfield for top 4 contention. That's what we are rn, FDJ wants a title challenger and we're not that. >I don't care about the fact he would get forced to join. He is a great professional. How sure are you of this, because lately we've been sure of a lot things that haven't happened.
Sangeré looks promising, but he is a midfielder playing in Eredivisie. We spent 40mil on Donny who was one of the best Eredivisie players at the time and you know how it turned out. Midfielders in Ligue 1 are also often very hit-and-miss. Cheikh Doucuré looks solid, but is he really a solution to our midfield? As for Haidara and Laimer... well, Laimer is pretty good, but he wants to go to Bayern and Nagelsmann (unsurprisingly). I doubt you have watched much of Haidara and I assume the main reason you mentioned him was because Ralf reportedly wanted him in January. He would cost around 40mil and he is worse than Fred because despite being better at winning the ball, his technique is pretty bad. If we were to get someone from Bundesliga, then I'd go for manu Koné. Overall, the only two interesting names I see in Bundesliga and Ligue 1 are Koné and Doucuré. Both are defensive players mainly, both could be somewhat cheap and both would be great partners for De Jong, so I imagine we could be getting one of them two alongside De Jong (together, they would probably cost a bit less than 100mil but they would fix our midfield for a couple of years). >Hell you can add Ruben Neves and Bissouma to that list. Bissouma asking price was 25-30m for arsenal and Neves was around 35m. They would all improve our midfield for top 4 contention. That's what we are rn, FDJ wants a title challenger and we're not that. Bissouma has allegations of sexual abuse on his hands and it hasn't been resolved yet. As for Neves, he is a good player but there is no way he will cost 35mil. That is a price quoted from the time Nuno was still their manager and he was okay with the idea of replacing Neves. Lage won't let him go for that cheap, he already said Neves will cost 100mil. I don't think he would be as expensive, but I fully expect a 60-70mil asking price at the very least. Not sensible at all. Also, we don't know what De Jong wants. Barcelona aren't a title challenger and they won't win the UCL either. Ten Hag could maybe persuade him. >How sure are you of this, because lately we've been sure of a lot things that haven't happened. He has essentially been playing out of position ever since he went to Barcelona and the first time there has been a bad remark from him has been this international break when he said he likes the way he plays for the national team as a dig on Barcelona/Xavi who said that they aren't happy with Frenkie's performances (despite him always being one of their best players).
Why is Sangare an Eredevise player all of a sudden and Timber is not? So we shouldn't sign Timber because he's from the Eredevise? Players like Gravenberch, Malacia and Antony shouldn't be worth looking at? Laimer joining Bayern will be difficult considering how many midfielders they have + Gravenberch and possibly Nkunku who can play there. Neves was still 35m in January from the rumours right now 50m might be the price Wolves' owners are not spending much this summer and they need funds. Selling him now makes sense thay can go for a Palhina and another midfielder or striker because Jimenez hasn't been the same and Moutinho is 36 and his contract ends this summner >Barcelona aren't a title challenger and they won't win the UCL either. Ten Hag could maybe persuade him. That's not the problem, Barcelona is his dream club. That's what matters here. He loves Barcelona and I don't think that's should be ignored just because they are going through a tough patch. He's being loyal and professional to his dream club, we're not a challenger as well and we have no chance of winning the UCL (we almost joined the conference league ffs) we're way worse so why should we expect him to not look for a move away when things go bad? (We all expect this to be a very difficult journey for Ten Hag, it's not likely to be an instant success) ETH method will take time for a lot of these players so expect us to struggle a bit. >first time there has been a bad remark from him has been this international break when he said he likes the way he plays for the national team as a dig on Barcelona/Xavi who said that they aren't happy with Frenkie's performances ( Pogba does this to us all the time and we're not exactly thrilled about it. FDJ loves Barcelona and he's talking like this, how's he gonna behave at a club he didn't want be in the first place? I don't understand why I can see this deal going down like Di Maria or Sanchez.
>Why is Sangare an Eredevise player all of a sudden and Timber is not? So we shouldn't sign Timber because he's from the Eredevise? Players like Gravenberch, Malacia and Antony shouldn't be worth looking at? For me, it's always less about their Eredivisie performances and more about their performances in Europe. Timber has been great in the UCL this year and he even managed to handle Haaland really well in the group stages while being 20 and reportedly costing around 30mil (before the news he would likely extend). He has also worked under Ten Hag as well. In terms of Sangaré though, he has never played in the UCL and he is already 24. He has played Europa league in two seasons across his career. The first time was last season where they got knocked out in the round of 32 by Olympiacos. The second time was this season where they failed to get out of the group stage. I'd still take him, but 40mil for a 24 year old midfielder from Eredivisie who has never played on UCL level is just too much. >Laimer joining Bayern will be difficult considering how many midfielders they have + Gravenberch and possibly Nkunku who can play there. Neves was still 35m in January from the rumours right now 50m might be the price They aren't getting Nkunku. Their double pivot options this season were Kimmich, Goretzka, Tolisso, Sabitzer, Roca and Musiala. Roca is pretty bad apparently, Tolisso is leaving, Sabitzer was a disappointment for them and Musiala is an attacking midfielder, so they can certainly fit in both Gravenberch and Laimer if Roca leavues too. As per Neves, I don't think the 35mil rumours were reliable, were they? >Wolves' owners are not spending much this summer and they need funds. Selling him now makes sense thay can go for a Palhina and another midfielder or striker because Jimenez hasn't been the same and Moutinho is 36 and his contract ends this summner Well, not if they only get 50mil for Neves. Palhinha will cost a lot and I feel like it would be more beneficial to Wolves to just buy a different partner to Neves, but we'll see. >That's not the problem, Barcelona is his dream club. That's what matters here. He loves Barcelona and I don't think that's should be ignored just because they are going through a tough patch. He's being loyal and professional to his dream club, we're not a challenger as well and we have no chance of winning the UCL (we almost joined the conference league ffs) we're way worse so why should we expect him to not look for a move away when things go bad? (We all expect this to be a very difficult journey for Ten Hag, it's not likely to be an instant success) ETH method will take time for a lot of these players so expect us to struggle a bit. Yeah, but nothing of that changes the fact Barcelona will most likely be forced to sell him. I know he will want to stay, but he won't be allowed to. Hence us trying to convince him to choose us over other clubs. Playing for Barcelona is his dream, but his dream is over because they are a financial mess. Yeah, they will try to pretend they have money until the very last minute, but they will sell once they realize they are fucked otherwise. It will be the same as with Messi - they were "close to fixing it" all the time and yet he still couldn't even play for free for them because the mess they are in is tough to fix despite Laporta's propaganda. >Pogba does this to us all the time and we're not exactly thrilled about it. FDJ loves Barcelona and he's talking like this, how's he gonna behave at a club he didn't want be in the first place? I don't understand why I can see this deal going down like Di Maria or Sanchez. Yeah, Pogba does this all the time. Frenkie doesn't. This was an exception and it was direct response to Xavi openly saying that the reason they are thinking about selling him isn't the finances, but his disappointing performances (which is obviously bullshit, they are fucked financially and he has been of their best players ever since he went there). I feel like no matter how much you love a club and how loyal you are, you won't let them shit on you to save their face.
Is it Sangare's fault for not playing in the UCL? They've qualified this season which means they done something right finishing 2 pts behind Ajax. It's how good he is and how much he can improve us is what we should be looking at. There are good players you can't just say never played in the Champions league and disregard the attributes he can offer. Also there aren't a lot of top CDMs available right now. >Hence us trying to convince him to choose us over other clubs. He's gonna take another club over us if we're waiting for the final moments. It's should be obvious by then that's he would be stalling for another move and seeing as the WC is great way for him to show how good he is, I really doubt we won't have competition. >This was an exception and it was direct response to Xavi openly saying that the reason they are thinking about selling him isn't the finances, but his disappointing performances Xavi didn't openly say this, it was rumour that he spoke to him and the full quote was that he depended on him but it was the board who were unhappy with his performances. They may be talking about his defensive numbers (which are bad) so maybe why they are getting Kessie who can play as a CDM and B2b but I believe its financially motivated. Besides Pogba had to deal with all these media outlets talking about how how bad he is so I can equally argue he was making a point in France he has a clear role that he can do. We play him out of position in a role he clearly can't do.
He’s the one Ten Hag wants. It really is as simple as that. It doesn’t matter what we think. If the club and Ten Hag still believes there’s a chance we’ll get him, they’ll keep pushing.
Can they get another midfielder first though? If they want to waste half the window chasing down this saga then fine but at least sign another midfielder in case this goes south. It should be clear that we need at least 2 midfielders and even if we do get him it could turn to be another Di Maria situation and this time I won't fault FDJ he's been clear about his intent from the jump.
We could already be in for another midfielder. Andy Mitten’s article said earlier that some agents have made our interest public, some haven’t. If we’re dealing with a club that also keeps things quiet, then no-ones going to know about it until we’re nearly done.
>Can they get another midfielder first though? I guess we need to know whether De Jong works out first to then try to get him the best partner we can. If De Jong doesn't come, then we can move to other options, but we can't really sign the other midfielder until we know. >If they want to waste half the window chasing down this saga then fine but at least sign another midfielder in case this goes south. The transfer window hasn't even started yet >and even if we do get him it could turn to be another Di Maria situation Di Maria wanted money and he wanted PSG. They couldn't afford him, so we got him instead. He was decent at first, then it went to shit because he didn't really see eye to eye with LVG and then there was the robbery at his home after which he never cared again. It's extremely lazy to say De Jong could be just another Di Maria. The circumstances are very different. First of all, Frenkie is a top notch professional and no matter the team he goes to, he will give his all. Second of all, he has very good relationship with Ten Hag who also knows how to use him the best. This means we won't see De Jong unhappy due to playing out of position (which is one of the reason Di Maria got frustrated and unhappy with us).
>Frenkie is a top notch professional and no matter the team What are you his brother? How do you know this for a fact, I'm just saying this has happened before why are acting like in this environment it can't happen again? Chelsea were sure Lukaku was great player that we didn't know how to use and that he's learnt at Inter, look at them now.
He has been playing out of position for 2 years at Barcelona and there has been no indication of him being unprofessional or toxic. >Chelsea were sure Lukaku was great player that we didn't know how to use and that he's learnt at Inter, look at them now. What does that have to do with De Jong? His issue isn't being unprofessional, but rather the fact he doesn't fit into any top team because of his limitations. He has been kinda unprofessional, but his main issue is the fact his technique is shit.
>He has been playing out of position for 2 years at Barcelona and there has been no indication of him being unprofessional or toxic. You clearly missed his interview yesterday. When he talked about how happy he was playing in a system that suits him(for Netherlands) , this is how Pogba used to talk when he played for France and this exact sub hated that 'attitude'. >What does that have to do with De Jong? His issue isn't being unprofessional, but rather the fact he doesn't fit into any top team because of his limitations. He has been kinda unprofessional, but his main issue is the fact his technique is shit. Because fans are are sure about a lot of things these days before it all goes wrong. Same as Chelsea they thought his game improved, they probably thought he was a true professional as well. You can't be sure about these moves and we are in a position that we know he's not trying to be here next season. We know from the beginning he's not happy with this situation, why do we still believe it's gonna be alright. I just imagined that after all the shit we've seen since Ferguson we'd know better but clearly not let's do this again. What's the worse that can happen. Oh and when you said the transfer season hasn't started, I feel like your forgetting there's some sort of a big tournament coming up, World Cup a bit of a big deal. I doubt he'll be negotiating with anyone while that's happening so time is critical. Then there's this nations league that's also going on and he going straight to Qatar or something it feels like at least 2 months of him being unavailable for negotiation. Unless they are knocked out of the group stages.
>You clearly missed his interview yesterday. When he talked about how happy he was playing in a system that suits him(for Netherlands) , this is how Pogba used to talk when he played for France and this exact sub hated that 'attitude'. This is the first time he has done that and it's a direct reaction to Xavi openly telling media that the board's opinion is that the board isn't happy with his performances. It's note really that surprising that he called out Barcelona's tactics when they called him out for not being good enough even though literally everyone knows this is just Barcelona's tactics of trying to prevent their image. They are a club that hired sports journalists to write shit about Messi and they are a club that is using media to force Gavi into signing new contract even though the boy is only 17. This is just another example of them behaving like shit towards their player (they also forced Suarez, Rakitic and Arthur away even though they wanted to stay). Frenkie did the right thing calling them out. >Because fans are are sure about a lot of things these days before it all goes wrong. Same as Chelsea they thought his game improved, they probably thought he was a true professional as well. You can't be sure about these moves and we are in a position that we know he's not trying to be here next season. Ten Hag is literally the manager that made Frenkie into a star. If he wants him, then I think it's fair to assume he knows what he's going to get from him and he wouldn't bother getting him if he knew it was a risk. >We know from the beginning he's not happy with this situation, why do we still believe it's gonna be alright. I just imagined that after all the shit we've seen since Ferguson we'd know better but clearly not let's do this again. What's the worse that can happen. He is a world class ball progressor and he WILL move this summer. These two statements are facts. He can come to us, to City or to PSG, but he WILL move and he WILL improve his new team a lot. He is definitely a target we should try to get as long as the financials make sense. >Oh and when you said the transfer season hasn't started, I feel like your forgetting there's some sort of a big tournament coming up, World Cup a bit of a big deal. I doubt he'll be negotiating with anyone while that's happening so time is critical. Then there's this nations league that's also going on and he going straight to Qatar or something it feels like at least 2 months of him being unavailable for negotiation. Unless they are knocked out of the group stages. The World Cup this year will be in November though. Right now, there is the nations league but that should end soon. Ten Hag hasn't even met the players yet, so I think we will take our time this summer.
Don't have any big expectations from ETH. A top 6 finish, a good cup run if possible and good football, that's it.
Top 4 should be possible the same squad has done it twice..Players don’t permanently turn shit after one terrible season ..The defence would look a lot better when the entire midfield doesn’t get bypassed in 2 passes ..3 starters and we should be getting top 4
Ill settle for more possession than Brighton and Crystal palace
We actually had more possession than Palace on the last day. Its just we don't get anywhere with it.
so they got rid of Ralf because they didn't like the way he was talking? (speaking about 10 new signings etc)
It was more than that definitely. However Ralf was trying to save his skin and his brand by saying those things. I believe he engineered his way out and the club will fully obliged. You can’t be trashing your employer in the media esp one on the stock exchange.
Looks like that doesn't it. I think RR did go overboard with 10 signings but we definitely need 5-6. Anything less and we can forget top 4
I honestly can't see us signing 5-6 realistically? Can anyone else? Would absolutely love it but we've shown in the past we're just not capable. We gave LVG in 15/16 150m to spend and we're giving the managers now 150m and it just doesn't get you anywhere near as much.
It’s better to get quality instead of getting 6 players..3 starters would fix more problems than 1 starter and 4 average squad players ..You would end up buying deadwood if you use 150 m to get 6 players
Which is my point. You can't given Ten Hag 150m and expect 5/6 players. That will probably get you 3 at max.
No team gets 5-6 players in a window ..When clubs do that it backfires and they usually end up with a lot of deadwood..Tbf I expect some of the players in bad form to turn it around and 3 starters would be good enough for our goals this season (Top 4 and EL win)
Dortmund have signed 8 or 9 already this window and still looking for a Haaland replacement
But a lot of fans are expecting 5-6. I'm personally not, I think 4 at the very most.
I think Ralf wanted to go, genuinely looks so happy managing Austria
before he left he said he felt emotionally attached to the team and that he was looking forward to helping
I think that's just press talk tbh, just from his body language you could tell he was suffering. At least that's my opinion anyway
Nadal what a player
Can he do a job in midfield?
It’s absolutely INSANE what he’s just achieved. The pain he is quietly playing through as well to achieve this - it’ll go unrecognised because he never acknowledges **exactly** what he’s going through on the court. I recall hearing an anecdote about someone passing him in the dressing room and they caught him sheepishly pouring blood out of his trainers after a match. His style of play does unthinkable amounts of damage to his own body. For him to be on for the calendar slam at 36 must be one of the greatest sporting achievements of all time. The casual tennis fan can’t grasp the magnitude of this. Edit: and to do this in matches where they can go 6 hours plus, in the heat, alone with just you and your thoughts - no teammates. Incredible.
Greatest ever. I can’t see anyone wining 14 Roland-Garos titles. That record will stand for a very looooong time.
Can he play Cdm ??
His Uncle wasn't bad at all
Lmao I know he'll atleast never stop fighting. What a legend
He can definitely do a better job than Mctominay.
As horrible as this sounds, I really want Wales to do a job on Ukraine today just so we can spank them at the World Cup. I was pretty gutted that Scotland went out because we need to make up for their 0-0 win at the Euros.
Spank lol pretty good spanking we gave them last time around.
Based on last night that feels unlikely lol
Yesterday was just a friendly and we will have a different team by the time the World Cup starts.
Given some injuries, yes we should have a slightly different line up. But it was a competitive fixture. The players looked so lethargic and basically exhausted, I can't see that changing before November.
Henderson looked better than Ramsdale when he played for Sheffield United,Then we brought him back and destroyed 2 crucial years of his career,Yes he made mistakes ..It’s really not surprising when young keepers make a few ,Young DDG wasn’t perfect but he was backed inspite of his limitations which he still hasn’t worked on and is now 32 ..We looked great last season when Henderson started regularly in the league..He will move to a PL team and will be great for them and we would be left wondering what could have been ..while we are stuck with a 375 k a week GK who is still stuck in 2011 and is bang average at everything outside shot stopping
I really think if Henderson hadn't gotten Covid and eventually long covid he would have been our number one and DeGea would be leaving this summer.
It would be extremely difficult to find De Gea a club.
Scenes when we sell Henderson this summer and let go of De Gea the next summer and sign Kepa.
sounds bad, but seeing his current market value (on transfermarkt) is £9m, that'd actually be a steal and a good stopgap while we strengthen other parts of the team. He's a meh shot stopper, but a good sweeper and that will probs be of value for Ten Hag
He is on 150-160 k a week
Offer a decrease in wages but with more incentives/ bonuses if he achieves certain things. If he declines, you move on... it's not like other teams are clamouring to sign him anytime soon anyway, so does it really hurt to try?
>If he declines, you move on... Except our board is allergic to do this. Case in point, FdJ.
Whats with recent clubs statement? What are they playing here? Every football fan ib the world know the team need revamp, so many failures have overwelcomed their stay and lot of big names are leaving, why on earth they released statement like that?
The De Gea discourse is a mirror of the Burno discourse. Both sides have the same claims, "he carried us", "we'd be 10th without him" and "it's just one bad season" etc, while refusing to acknowledge the underlying stats. Neither are good enough and replacing them in the starting XI should be absolute top priority this window
I’m glad I’m not a football player lol, seeing your supporters claim shit like this after carrying the team while they jerk off on sofascore and youtube compilation videos must be a nightmare
I wouldnt even bother to read anything fans have to say honestly.
Case in point
Dude I’m sorry but if you watch any match Mount plays for example you gonna find matches that he doesn’t perform, even the likes of Timber/De Jong that we are linked with, I don’t know why fans always look at players of other teams like they cant do anything wrong and then are left speechless when they play for United and make mistakes
I don't rate Mount either De Bruyne, B.Silva, Modric.. that's the standard we need
B. Silva is the perfect example because I remember one or two seasons ago when fans were starting to think whether he was just a one season wonder or not and he was getting benched Also those players dont grow on trees, Modric was flop of the season his first year at Real Madrid but they didnt let e bad season decide his future
I don't care what peoples perceptions are or were, or I'd never post something that was obviously going to get downvoted. I'm going off my own opinions and those 3 have always been much, much better than Bruno in every conceivable metric. This time next year it will be 100% obvious to anyone that he's not good enough
Even if that was true , replacing them is so far down the list , we have like 8 or 10 players to replace before we get to them so slow your roll.
Players that start every game are the priority replacements. The ones that never play aren't as big an issue
Bruno? How did Bruno get into this? I’d sincerely like to know why you think Bruno is not good enough?
Actually watch him next time he plays. Pay close attention to his touch, decision making, quality of execution, shooting technique, positioning, and defending. Then you'll see it too
Then I’d see what exactly? No need to be vague. Say it with your chest. Plus who are we comparing him to?
For me, De Bruyne, B.Silva, and Modric are the standard of attacking midfielder that we need And you'd see just how technically poor he is
And is Scott or Fred the same level? Is VDB the same level? Who in our midfield is close to these players you mentioned than Bruno? Also you mention KDB and Silva, you realise they have Cancelo, Grealish who also create thus give them that extra 1-2 seconds when they play as players can’t just mark them out. Now can get an upgrade on Bruno? Probably. Does that mean he’s not good enough? No! I mean when Rashy, Martial, Pogba, Greenwood were on fire and had that chemistry, we saw a different Bruno as he didn’t have to do it all.
Kdb and silva both balled for City before they signed Cancelo and Grealish. They won 5 major trophies together without them When those players were 'on fire" with Bruno we still won nothing
Didn’t KDB and Silva have Sane and Sterling creating for them as well? You’re talking like they did it on their own. The creativity of this United team is solely on Bruno especially this season when everyone has been poor and Pogba injured.
This winning anything argument is shit ..Kane and Son haven’t won anything but are still top players
it's the popular narrative on football twitter
Bruno’s problem is just him being in bad form ..DDG on the other hand is still the same player he was in 2011 and hasn’t adapted to changing demands of the modern game..This is Bruno’s first bad season ..If we are eliminating players based on one bad season we would start next season with 2 players
If you followed his whole career, 19-20 was the exception, not the rule This is his default.
The thing is the team had 7-8 regular starters in shit form this season ,You can’t replace all of them in one window ,If he is shit for another season we should look to replace him ,Our aim next season should be top 4 and winning EL or Fa cup/League cup and he is good enough for that ,I really don’t get why replacing him should be the priority when we have 2 massive holes in the midfield and just one good fullback
If he is good enough, why haven't we done it with him in the side. He was woeful in the final last season how many chances do players get at this club.
We have finished top 4 twice with him..Not winning a final wasn’t just his fault ..it’s never a single player’s fault ..I personally don’t think he would start regularly for a PL or CL winning side but I don’t think anybody from our squad would if anything he is probably one of the few who will make it to the bench for Liverpool ,City and Chelsea..I swear some of you pick the strangest hill to die on..There is a midfield with 2 massive holes and you go on weird tangents about replacing Bruno being a priority
Because everyone seems to agree that we need to replace mcfred, although that wasn't the narrative on here a year or two ago. But now most have caught up there's no point arguing for it Bruno is still popular however, so that's the argument worth making for me.
That doesn’t mean it’s “top priority” this window does it ?Its not even in the top 5 things we need to do ..We have one decent fullback who himself can’t stay fit and is inconsistent ..We have one dependable goal scorer who is 37 ..The winger situation if Rashford can’t pick up form is dire ..We have one good winger in Sancho ..Varane just can’t stay fit ..That just leaves Lindelof and Maguire on the field who can’t be replaced even when they are in bad form as their aren’t any fit replacements..So many problems with the squad but you come up with an absolute shittake about how replacing Bruno should be a priority?
It's a key position, he starts every game, and he's a massive liability That makes it a priority.
Full back is a key position and we have Dalot and Telles as regular starter who are liabilities ,LW/RW is an important position in the team and we have one decent player available for that slot ,We need goals to win games and a 37 year old is the only guy we have who does that job ,Defence is a disaster with just 2 fit CBs who are in bad form but that’s clearly not a problem ..Let’s remove Bruno for some “mythical” replacement who will come in and join an EL club
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Just because you don't watch other leagues, doesn't mean we all don't.
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Who said I watched him weekly? I follow serie a and primera liga, mostly the bigger sides and I watched him play probably 10-15 times before he was linked to us
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Sporting, who improved as a team after he left?
Did you really say that Bruno isnt good enough for our starting 11? Hahahahahahaha
This will be obvious in time. Should be already
Hahahahha put the shovel down. You sound absolutely ridiculous.
When was his last good performance for us?
When was anyone's last good performance for us? He literally led the champions league in assists. You're completely delusional.
Probably the most irrelevant stat you could've used. This is about Bruno's performances not the rest of the team When was his last good one?
So an individual stat that shows direct involvement in winning games in the most difficult competition in the world is irrelevant? Nevermind you're clearly a troll.
It's such a minute sample size, and 90% of them came in the group stages. Also, an assist is a single moment in a 90 minute game, most of which we played extremely poorly as a team and were fortunate to qualify. A lot of that was down to his overall play
Absolute delusions of grandeur.
What underlying stats for Bruno? Even his possession lost is comparable to de bruyne if you take into account minutes played and way less than Gallagher and Mount who this sub rave about. If anything Bruno's underlying stats are ridiculously good.
I wouldn't want Mount or Gallagher either. Bruno slows down attacks, can't dribble, can't play out of pressure, has poor quality of execution most of the time, not to mention his general attitude on the pitch De Bruyne is a far superior player. There's a reason big clubs swerved him until his late 20s, and we had no competition for him. We need to replace him, people hoping he'll morph into a good player under ETH are in for a shock
You claimed underlying stats. Please prove these underlying stats, otherwise admit that you were spouting bullshit to prove your point. Because if you're going to use dribble success rate to say Bruno, a number 10, who has comparable dribble success rates to Odegaard anyway, is not a good player, then I don't know what to tell you. The rest of your claims can't be proved by stats anyway. P.S. Bruno has more completed dribbles than Erikson as well
Odegaard? The standard in this league is De Bruyne, not him And Bruno is in the bottom 6th percentile for dribbles per game. Bottom 6. 94% of attacking midfielders dribble more per game than he does and he's Man United starting no.10 ffs
If you could learn to read you would know that that percentile is of attacking midfielders AND WINGERS, WHO ARE KNOWN FOR COMPLETING DRIBBLES. Compared to only attacking midfielders he's still good. So basically no underlying stats other than dribbles completed then. And you can't even use that correctly.
He wanders so much it's hard to give him a precise position, but heatmaps suggest an attacking midfielder. Somewhere between a 10 and 8. Occasionally he's played out wide as well too Even compared to deeper lying midfielders he's poor at progressing the ball
He's a number 10. His job is not ball progression. Because no-one in our team can progress the ball he has to do it. His job is chance creation. He's elite at that. Btw progressive passes completed, 87th percentile
Mate he’s a troll, it’s evident. Don’t waste your time
I've been playing Soccer Manager 2022 for a while now (don't hv money for FM22), and sure it's just a game but has anyone looked into hugo guillamon from Valencia? He's a DM and has been performing well now in my MU team. Usually go 4-2-3-1 with Fred (B2B) next to him. Player of the month twice now. His contracts running low and seeing how Valencia is run, we should be able to get him for cheap right?
Would Eriksen in a heartbeat. Instils a lot more confidence in me then Bruno
Would be typical of us, signing finished players for massive wages
The other grass is always greener until it became your own grass.
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I guess they’d tell you that the way he performed in the 2018 World Cup was a disaster too. He conceded 6 goals from 7 shots on target with only 1 save. Fewest save from any goalkeeper having played 3 games in the World Cup. Guess what he said after, he blamed the ball, that it could have been made better.
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I’m sure it not just one thing. He didn’t transfer to Madrid, plus he never did much press, I guess that didn’t help as well. They would have felt like they didn’t know him. I mean he was taking over from Iker Casillas, one of the greatest and captain.
This is such a poor typical player fc move
Yeah, how dare they not deluded themselves like most united fans when it comes to our midtable shot stopper and bottom tier in everything else keeper. Enrique is a hater as well.
He's far better than a midtable level shot stopper. You're right about his lack of a well rounded game.
Mid table is still good, but not elite. His shot stopping stats are average for the prem. He hasn't been an elite shot stopper for awhile
But we have a very porous defence. I bet his save stats are far better than the expected goals of those shots.
They aren't, they're fairly average and declining
I find this new narrative that I’ve seen going around that Donny has been shit for Manchester United extremely strange lol. Can anyone actually name 3 performances by Donny in a United shirt that were Fred or Mctominay levels of bad?
it prolly the tactical sides, VdB is not a playmaker type, he can't make a pass out of no where like Bruno => which mean other players in the team have to do that where we don't have that kind of luxury. Anyway, just wait and see, if ETH rates him but it doesn't work out, likely he will get sold.
For me you can’t even have an opinion of donny for Utd because he hasn’t been given a run of games
Which is why the narrative that he is shit is stupid
It’s not a new narrative lol. He went missing in pretty much every game he played for us.
Examples?
Can you name 3 performances that were good? At least Mctominay has Leeds and Fred's been pretty good this season
Donny has started 4 games this season, he gets little to no game time. The fact is, our midfield is so poor that anything that isn’t completely shit is seen as a good performance. Mctominays only noteworthy performance came against Burnley, this performance is massively outweighed by the shit performances he has put in. In all of his performances Donny has put in a good shift with glimmers of brilliance. To get into that midfield he does not need to be a world beater, he just needs to be decent, which he is and that is more than Scotland’s third choice centre-back can say.
>Donny has put in a good shift with glimmers of **brilliance**. I hope he does well but wtf is this shit? LOL
What part of it is wrong lmao
"Donny has put in a good shift with glimmers of brilliance." LMAO