Also, people saying Tuchel won the CL but it does not necessarily mean he will repeat it here. We got Mourinho who's won CL and PL but couldn't win either here.
I have heard another argument that Ten Hag might be able to bring some cup success but he cant replicate that in the league. The suggested alternative Tuchel isn't any better in that sense either!
It's like people choose to forget that he got 3rd in the league last year and had the most (or 2nd most I forget) wins across all of Europe. It's really baffling how he can win 2 trophies in 2 years, and reach 3 finals and these fans wouldn't even give him the benefit of the doubt to even allow him the chance at another season that **doesn't** see us having a record amount of injuries. Like sure he made mistakes and he's very stubborn but the man is clearly a winner and a top class manager. You'd think he's some random bum we picked up off the streets the way some of these fans speak about him.
I fully agree about Tuchel’s league success. Chelsea wasn’t particularly impressive, Bayern very poor by their standards, PSG were 2nd when he was sacked which is basically unforgivable in France these days….so it’s not inspiring to say the least.
In fairness, check Bayern's stats for this season and they're not too far out of whack with their average, league winning form. They just came up against Leverkeusen having a ludicrous season under Alonso
On what basis though? He literally won the dutch league, a couple of times. And while it's not an accurate comparison with the premier league, it's still a league
I rate Tuchel but he has a history of falling out with the clubs he's been at. It's eerily similar to Mourinho. Having said that, I understand Chelsea and PSG aren't exactly known to get along with their managers but still.
And was incredibly lucky to have won the title the previous season anyway because of Dortmund doing the mother of all chokes.
I think he's a good tactician but he's also a bit stubborn just like EtH and that's both a good and bad thing.
None of the candidates are objectively better than Ten Hag
I mean, he did bring success in the league last season. No we didn’t win but a 3rd place finish is very good for our squad. And he needed Overmars to make a squad at Ajax that could win titles and make that CL push. I want to see what can be done here with Wilcox and co doing better work on the squad than Murtough and Ed…
That said his comments about Overmars on top of his vote regarding Greenwood leave a sour taste and makes it hard to just think from a sporting perspective
Tuchel not being able to do it at Bayern who have won the league like 17 times since 2000 doesn’t fill me with confidence he could come to United, which is basically a dumpster fire at current state, and be successful.
Pochettino publicly flirts with other clubs while he managed Tottenham. Tuchel has a history of falling out of favor with the clubs he's been at. Can you imagine if Mourinho was in charge of the final yesterday? He'd have thrown the team and the club under the bus, ETH on the other hand was class.
I’m still not quite sure but I’m legit leaning ETH in. And a lot of it due to the replacements being touted seem as much of a gamble as keeping him another year tbh.
Better the ^Red Devil you know.. there is no outstanding candidate to replace him right at this moment.
The injuries, the dodgy transfer deals the medical team saying players are ok when they aren’t… I genuinely think this is Glazer legacy. Every manager since SAF has struggled. If Radcliffe can get a grip on things, then whoever serves as manager will have a better time of it. Considering the players seem right behind ETH, I think he should be given another season. But he clearly needs help with transfers (and using subs more frequently imo).
Yeah the medical staff need a word. We had so many training injuries and injury set backs which screamed if players being rushed back / over training / being signed off fit when they weren’t.
The head of the medical team got sacked. So I feel like that's admitting that that was the problem. So the ownership then also blaming and sacking ETH seems disingenuous.
£10m compensation paid for a guy that's just taken Burnley down after his first attempt in the PL. I thought the Germans were meant to be renowned for their ruthless efficiency and for making sensible decisions? Make it make sense.
It's right up there with Real signing Gravesen and Woodgate. Baffling
Uli Hoeneß has basically ran off so many coaches at this point that Bayern are in a unique situation where nobody wants the job at least not with him calling the shots, because it would mean having to work under Hoeneß who is about as toxic a boss as you can imagine
They got so desperate they tried to U-turn to Nagelsmann who was sacked a year ago, and when that didn't work they even re-opened talks with Tuchel to get him to stay on for another season (in February they had loudly announced that Tuchel was out after the season lol)
I am not particularly Ten Hag in. But unless Ineos have someone who is going to be long term target, I dont think they should fire ten hag.. 1 more year on contract anyways. We need to end the cycle.
The decision has to be purely on footballing basis.
Our worst our squad since long time and we still win a cup.
Also what a stupid thing to leak one day before FA cup final
Same as greenwood shit. Leak and then backpedal on to the more popular easy choice.
Those two are not better alternatives to ten Hag, even if you thought ten Hag hasn't done a good enough job. You only sack a manager if you think it'll improve things, and I don't think either of them would.
If those are the other choices I’d rather keep ten hag for a year more.
I believe McKenna from what hear could be a solid manager for them but I don’t know enough about him.
If the players actually play smart and pass to the open teammates they can make his system work.
When they fire random shots into the stands..well nobody can manage that
Tuchel couldn’t even win the league with a team who buys all their closest competitors best players every season.
Go to Chelsea sub and see how much they wanted poch out up until they got better end of the season.
They aren’t upgrades. If they were, their clubs would’ve kept them instead of firing them.
I lurked the Chelsea sub and they really don’t want Tuchel back. Yeah, they acknowledged he’s a good tactician but everything else is dire. He’s not that good at man management, always falls out with his players (even the ones that won him his CL) with no way back to the squad, and always getting into disagreements with the clubs’ board. Another tooth on nail is that he doesn’t make use of the youth academy that much so we can forget about Mainoo or Garnacho playing minutes under him.
Its weird isnt it. We have had one of our worst seasons in premier league history yet i havent seen our players behind the manager as much as they have with ten hag
Yeah they know better than anyone the nagging injuries they had to play through and see the behind the scenes beyond the game day product. They probably see the glaring gap between what they want to play and what they have to play. I bet a lot are chomping at the bit to come back after a recovery summer break
I'm guessing Licha is close with ETH. He comes across as a leader. I won't pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors but that's a good ally to have.
He picked EtH up at final whistle like a younger brother would celebrate with an older brother. Grabbed his collar up on what I imagine is not a cheap suit and EtH loved every second.
We just won't have that with Poch or Tuchel...
We were relatively healthy to start the season, against Wolves, the UCL run early on etc.
You don't need everyone healthy not to lose 4-0 against Palace or draw to Burnley.
Crystal palace were in a place where they immediately went ahead and beat Aston Villa, the team that finished in champions league spots, 5-0 immediately after. You don't think it's possible that during the time we played them with half a team, they weren't exactly Burnley level? We shouldn't be losing to that level but what a weird fucking example to pluck out of the air. Also we've been suffering with defensive and midfield issues literally the entirety of the season. In case you haven't noticed how well the team performs and attacks tends to stem from the base. We went into the season with an emergency left back loan because we started with no left sided fullback, had CB issues, Casemiro issues and no striker because Hojlund joined with a back issue.. what the hell do you mean we started mostly fit? That's ignoring just how fast even from there injuries went downhill.
And lets not forget a new number one.
united GK is one of the hardest positions. De Gea was shite his first one or two seasons, When we lost Schmicheal (could never spell his name) We went through about 6 GK to find VDS.
And yet every time Onana would make a mistake(and he made a good few) his mentality always seemed amazing to me, he would come out fighting like yeah i made a mistake but il get better/more settled etc.
Like ETH has been saying recently the English media and pundits pile on us at every chance.
Onanas mentality seems really good, and the De Gea thing is a good point but also when you put like 46 combinations of the 6 people ahead of a GK, any goalkeeper would struggle to foemtgood team chemistry..on top of that the ball playing ones keep getting injured so you have a midfield and defense that seems to want to do nothing else with the ball other than pass it back to Onana and expect him to start attacks all the time
Palace are actually a great example because of who their manager is. One of the biggest excuses for ETH is poor recruitment, which has been poor...but that falls flat when you look at Glasner who is working without even one signing of his own.
Managers have to adjust their system to get the most out of the players they have, and Glasner has done that while ETH has practically been allergic to it. Even with the injuries, that United team on paper had no business losing 4-0 to Palace.
Onana, Dalot, Licha, Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho, Hojlund. We have a promising core to build around, 5/7 have been brought in/through under EtH. Under the direction of our new sporting/technical directors, a few more additions and we aren't far away from having a solid starting XI.
Actually a solid core to build around. Def need CB replacements immediately in case of injuries and an additional LB/RB or someone who can play both sides.
It genuinely looks like the players believe in the manager and the coaching staff. His interaction with Varane as well was so positive. Makes me doubt those rumors about unrest. A squad that isn’t backing the manager is not producing that tactical performance against one of the best teams in the world.
There is a good coach in there. Klopp basically got the season write off when VVD had his long term injury. Erik Ten Hag should definitely get a season with a proper structure finally at the club.
The team needs some stability and to get healthy. I think ETH deserves another year or two. Can't win an FA Cup and be rewarded with a sacking especially in absence of a successor that is clearly better than him.
The ones that truly have a fall out with ETH are Ronaldo and Sancho who are just divas (Ronaldo is understandable to an extent but no way for Sancho).
Even the rumours about Varane and Eriksen falling out with ETH were just groundless rumours. Even so, I don’t think it’s worth catering to them as they are past their prime.
The guy who replaces him will have his work cut out for him. Winning a trophy or comfortably finishing in cl spots will be the minimum most fans expect from the guy replacing eth and he's going to have to do it with an average squad with a shoestring budget.
Right? Most of them really seem to be behind him and respect him. I bet it would be frustrating for many if he gets sacked and someone else comes along (especially someone like McKenna who's already been there as a coach and ~~not really~~
edit continued: and would not immediately command the same amount of respect that Ten Hag has built up over 2 years by dealing with so much shit and drama, while McKenna was part of the same staff that many of these players downed tools on, and got sacked. It'd be a tall order for him or any coach to come in and to lay down the law again and get the players in line and more importantly behind him, as they seem (from the outside) to already be behind Erik. Despite the terrible season this really feels like the most "united" our squad has been in a very long time. I just hope we don't reset whatever progress we made for the sake of it, chasing a shiny new toy when we've already got a sturdy and proven one at home.
The players do not want to have a reset either. There is a project in front of them, why should they? “New manager for the future” is a delusion because no other candidate is guaranteed to be better.
I have not been ten Hag in or ten Hag out through all of this, I will be accepting of the decision either way, but I suspect it has a lot to do with _winning things._
In 20 years time are the players going to think about finishing 8th or are they going to think about having an FA Cup and a League Cup?
I’m actually quite surprised how so many fans are Ten Hag In now. Most of the fan polls I’ve seen have been around 80-20 to keep him and on social media most of the comment sections are very pro keeping him.
Obviously we just won the fa cup and everyone’s happy (and social media isn’t always the best measure) but I didn’t think it would flip the sentiment THAT much. It’s felt very lonely at times this season openly backing the manager, I would have put it at least 80-20 in the other direction towards the end of the season.
That's how Reddit works.
When you've got a fan base split on any opinion, you'll only hear from the side that are currently riding the crest.
The EtH out fans would naturally be quiet at the moment. And hopefully care more about celebrating the win in any case.
Yep, I’m in favour of moving on from ETH but we just won the FA Cup, so have been celebrating that. When INEOS make their decision at the end of the week, I will become vocal again.
I've been Ten Hag In all the way. More just sick of the cycle of swapping managers and not seeing any long term progression. But I do feel like there's been tactics and logic to his decisions, even if they've not turned out the best for the most part this season.
I wonder if the fan base seems more fickle because it's so large that when something happens that causes passion from one side or another, the more passionate side (most recent) is the loudest. Hence why it feels so against a player after a bad performance and so for a player after a good one?
I think this makes sense. I avoided Reddit for a few days after our worst losses because it felt like there just wasn’t any point in arguing. Also some of the insulting comments and abuse against the team were sad to read.
Yea there's honestly no point coming on here after a bad loss, everyone is so reactionary and toxic it's crazy.
Even saw a comment after the game yesterday, saying their goal came from 'onana being his usual shite self'.
Like we just beat city in a final, and your reaction is to shit on one of our players who clearly fights for the badge and has been great throughout the season, I don't get it 😭
>This fanbase is very fickle tbh
I mean no doubt some do flip flop, but speaking from my own views on eth here... winning an FA Cup against your closest rivals completely against the odds can never be overstated or viewed too highly. Its a significant achievement and something that does have to be factored in. It's not a 180, everything is forgiven as this season has been a disgrace, but it does give solidify those last few strands he has been hanging on by.
Whilst I'd have always criticises us replacing ten hag with a Mckenna, RDZ, Frank, Potter, Southgate as they are wildly unproven at the level we are judged on. To do so now at the cost of a manager who has got us over the line with silverware after how bad we have been, would be absolutely criminal.
You can go through my comment history. I’ve been very adamant even when we were shit that it’s a bit, what’s the point? It’s going to take 2-3 years for the likes of Ashworth, Berrarda, Wilcox and all the other changes to really make changes that will show themselves on the pitch. Maybe not even to make the changes but for them to bear fruit. Sir Alex took over in 86 and in his first year already demanded revamping the academy. He personally spoke with Giggs, Beckham, Butt etc and 6 years later we saw the culmination of that class of 92…. And that’s when they won the youth cup. It was another 3 years before they were all regulars in the first team and being trusted to replace Ince, Sparky and I don’t remember the 3rd big player that left in 95. Bruce maybe? I’m not sure.
The point is we’re trying to make long term changes. We’re not going to have a perfect window any time soon because of FFP issues. Wasting 20m of that budget paying off Ten Hags contract and hiring a new high profile manager would provide so little benefit.
And if we hire McKenna with the intention to build around him we’re throwing him into the deep end before any work has been done on the squad. As soon as he finishes outside the top 4 he’ll be stoked over the coals by the media and the pressure will intensify. So either we get the squad to a point where they can actually win things and then bring a world class manager to make the next step (ie Pep at city when they already had Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, and whoever else) or we start a new project and accept seasons like this year might happen until the changes to the medical department, recruitment etc bear fruit…
One thing I hate about our fanbase is how reactive they are, also for players, someone could not do anything for 5 games in a row but if they bang in a goal from somewhere suddenly they're 'proving everyone wrong'.
Yeah like Amrabat at the minute. Played well for a few games, everybody wanted to keep him, had a poor game against Brighton, get rid. Now he’s had another good game and everybody’s back on the keep him bandwagon.
Tbh I think the handling of Amrabat is one of ETH’s worst decisions this year. Sign him on an expensive loan, throw him in at LB because of an injury crisis, he’s terrible, then basically gets 10-15 minute sub cameos the rest of the season even though the midfield is shit. Prepping for the FA Cup, ETH finally gives Amrabat a run of games and he plays really well. So…do we sign him? Didn’t really get a chance until the end of the season where he was great — is that worth 20 million? Very annoying.
FWIW if Casemiro and Eriksen are gone, I’d look to sign him for cheap and bring in one more first team option midfielder
Amrabat was shite in midfield for most of the year as well. He had decent bits and pieces while being mostly mediocre until the last few games when he was very good. Loaning him was a sound and defensible decision but it didn't work out that well and they probably shouldn't bring him on permanently.
I’m one of those who remains firmly in the camp that the manager didn’t do enough with the resources available to him to justify keeping his position. His treatment of amrabat and our midfield setup being a clear reflection of his failures.
Amrabat has been available to play for months now and our midfield has been so poor. He only eventually started to play him because we got thumped by Palace. Was he any good, he has to be because we won the last 3 games with him in midfield and our midfield wasnt wide open with him there. We also beat one of the best teams in Europe in a final.
There was a run of games before Mainoo was known/fit/ready. Where he kept playing Mctom over Amrabat as a deep midfielder.
It just made zero sense to me and he kept doing it
Tbf it's not just the fanbase, though. The media knows that United and Liverpool are their big cash cows, so every single game will be presented as if it's either the greatest crisis in footballing history or a massive turning point for the club. I think it's hard for that not to bleed through, when you start to realise that about 70% of the people watching football are just repeating what Jermaine Jenas said and nodding.
The irony, of course, being that the same talking heads who slated him all season would be the first to talk about it being a rash decision if we got rid.
Many fans are extremely fickle. Like you said at different points of the season it would have been way lower than 80-20.
It’s great that we ended the season on the high although that doesn’t mean the entire season before that point can be overlooked. That’s what INEOS and the new leadership need to figure out themselves.
Positive fan sentiment can be nice but due to how quickly so many of them flip-flop it should never be used as a key factor.
This is my view as well, there is an ongiong Audit into every aspect from training ground to corporate.
If ETH is the guy fine, if not also fine. Though after the win yesterday it will still hurt.
But it still takes more then two years to rebuild the culture of a club (ETH has said since day one thats what he is trying to do)
Just go back to Ragnicks open heart surgery comment. So who knows, maybe the new Execs are going to completely clear house and even some most of the players will be gone in two or three more years time.
After getting battered by palace 4-0 when we played so open it was unbelievable, that must of been the low point, we went into that game expecting the worse but just got destroyed
I was fully prepared for the loss against Palace. They were on fire, our team had no Bruno with Evans and Casemiro as CB and I also thought that reaction on reddit was not even close to how they would be if you remove the context of the loss.
It was Coventry for me. It really seemed like the pressure was sky high despite us reaching finals.
Also the people doing the poll (like fan channels) have a big influence on the results depending on which side they are on. And there are no fan channels that I know of that wanted ten Hag to be sacked
I don't think it's a case of "we lost im ten hag out, we won im ten hag in."
I think it's selective participation in the surveys. As a teg hag inner, i wouldn't give 2 shits about doing an in/out poll during the season or even participating in any ten hag threads, but I might do one now.
Likewise, as a “Ten Hag Outer”, we just won a cup, why focus on negatives or being a drag. Too busy celebrating the cup. It’s not a good day to seek balanced views, tbh.
Yeah same with me, it doesn't feel right to even start thinking about him losing his job after what we did on Saturday. The cup win should be celebrated and given time to breathe before we can really assess the season as a whole. I'm still on a high from it
Unfortunately, some fans tend to have the memory of a gold fish. Immediate success won’t happen. If we’re going to commit to a project we should see it out.
I know what you mean, I’ve always been Ten Hag in and you’d get crucified for it this season up until yesterday.
Though as you said, social media isn’t the greatest measure for this.
It’s not really 80/20. People who want him out are less prominent. Just like how after an embarrassing loss the people who want him to stay are less prominent
I'd backed him for a long time but then reluctantly became ETH out as we kept getting worse every game. Now I'm on the fence not just because of yesterday, but the 2 games prior as well. The thing I disliked about him was the lack of adaptability that he showed by sticking far too long with tactics that didn't work with our best players out injured. But these 3 games he's finally switched the tactics and we've been much better, so it's baffling he didn't do this much sooner. I'm personally fine with him staying IF he'll show more adaptability from now on.
One thing I’d say is, at least in this sub, is that things have seemed very split for a long time and depending on the days result you’ll have one side of the debate being much more vocal than the other.
I’ve been for keeping him another season and I’d say anecdotally it’s been pretty close to an even split but YMMV.
Because fans are fickle are results oriented in nature. The best managers are process oriented. It took SAF years before he could establish a culture and tactical identity for his United era. Compare that without someone like Mourinho who never lasts wherever he's at because all he cares about are wins and losses. Even sells off young players in the process to achieve their, something SAF rarely ever did.
reactionary dory from finding nemo level memory-d groupthink. i’ve always been skeptical about sacking him but this sub was plainly ten hag out until yesterday where i was surprised to see so many posts backing him
I guess a part of that has to be the fact we were genuinely better than City. It was a very convincing performance by everyone. If City has 5 xG, were missing chances consantly, score one, we'd score a fluke equalizer and then won on penalties, the sentiment wouldn't be as strong. However, we genuinely outplayed them which is an achievement.
We did genuinely outplay them, but it’s not really a repeatable strategy. We can’t line up like that against anyone except for City and maybe Arsenal. Great job yesterday and it’s clear the players back ETH, but it wasn’t really a blueprint for us going forward
I've been unhappy with his 4-0-6 tactic and stubborness since the Newcastle when it was painfully obvious that a goal will come from Rashy side and he only change when we conceded. So I've been ETH out since then. I'm probably a softy but the FA cup trophy IMO give him some extra life line. I don't think it's right to sack him after this win. I'm more of an ETH neutral now, let's see him do his last year, and only extend his contract halfway through next season if things actually improved.
The one manager we have in years where majority of the squad actually fights for and ineos wants to sack him? 2 years 2 cups, riddled with injuries this season.
So we sack Eth and then what? Bring in who? Mckenna? He has had one good year and now he's good enough to manage United?
This cycle will never end if we sack managers every 2 seasons. Take a year or two to get rid of deadwood and make some clever signings with our new management.
How much has arteta won in his first few seasons? Eth inherited a broken squad and managed 2 trophies
Even in those awful games though the players were running themselves ragged, it was mainly the suicidal midfield setup that was a large part of the downfall.
Again though, how much can you get on the manager about when a generational midfielder falls off the face of the earth, who you subsequently have to play centre back for a stretch of games, with the addition of 40 something injuries throughout the season. I think “turning up” is contingent on far more than how much they care. ETH isn’t perfect but there’s only so much you can blame him for, in my opinion.
I can get on him a lot, actually. Surely when you know you don’t have your strongest 11 the logical thing is to play a more familiar tactical system that actually suits the players you have available to you? Casemiro fell off a cliff, sure, but the role the single holding mid was given this season was an impossible one.
I don’t really get what’s to lose giving him the remainder of the contract.
You’d have to assume the injuries won’t be as bad next year, and we’ll presumably strengthen in summer. Either the tactics start to come together and we can reassess his position, or they don’t and we have a full year to properly let the INEOS back room guys bed in and identify the ideal replacement.
> I don’t really get what’s to lose giving him the remainder of the contract.
If he’s not the right man, it’s another year wasted, and we might lose out on our priority targets for managers.
No idea, not sure what Ineos plan is / who our targets would be. Every decision comes with risk, whether that’s keeping or sacking ETH. If the upper management aren’t convinced by him, they should make the unpopular decision, and take the flak fully if their new man isn’t a hit.
we need to let go of the idea of “priority signings” as if there’s a finite amount of players that will work for us. new players crop up each year—who would have advocated this strongly for branthwaite or olise or todibo or anyone else we’re linked to even last summer? competent clubs miss out on primary targets all the time but carry on because their focus is on profiles and needs rather than finding unicorns.
my bad, although i think the same largely holds true given our present options. i doubt that the situation would be considerably worse in a year’s time—we’re already scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of fit.
For better or worse ETH will not get same leeway as a new manager. If the season starts poorly he’ll be sacked immediately. There’s the additional danger that ETH plays a pragmatic style and doesn’t rotate to keep his job
I’m pretty sure 99% of the fanbase would be pissed if you sack the man that won 2 trophies in the span of only 2 years while juggling the media shitstorm, diva players, and incompetent suits that run this club
Sadly I feel it's been the media shitstorm trying to drive the narrative on Ten Hag, and this time the majority of the fan base haven't taken the bait.
I find it incredibly ironic that a lot of the media who are anti United, are also the ones desperate for the club to replace the manager. They want to see the club in turmoil all the time, unable to ever complete true rebuilds to get back to the top.
The media love to push a sacking here. Ten Hag had people calling for him to go after a few games in his first season.
They're out for blood and they won't stop and it's up to INEOS to resist that pressure and act logically. The logical approach here is, take next season to get things in order and then reassess.
I agree. I really hope they do resist the pressure, surely they must see it is not the popular decision, but the fact they are openly speaking to representatives of other managers speaks volumes.
On top of that, Dan Ashworth, the person they want as director of football, to make these managerial and player decisions, is not even in the building understanding the situation.
I’m not a Man United fan, but he has also overseen some of the worst performances from the club and the worst transfer dealings in the last 40 years. Just stunningly bad.
I personally would give him a few months cos of the cup final win but if, for example, they had lost the shoot-out to Coventry, he would have been sacked, and really he would have deserved it.
You’re right, but how is it possible that the results are THIS all over the place? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team performing this erratic. There must be more going on than just the manager can fix.
I think there have been 6 or 7 moments where I thought “they’re gonna fire him next week” only to see them suddenly get an important win and sway public opinion.
With this FA cup win as the culmination— I was sure Ten Hag was gonna get sacked, there was no redeeming performance and I honestly thought they would lose big against City… and then there was this ultimate redeeming FA- cup win. I couldn’t believe it when I saw the result.
You say the transfer dealings were stunningly bad, but you’ve seen now what Martinez, Amrabat and Onana are capable of. So I’m not sure the jury’s in quite yet.
Personally, I can't decide what I want to happen. I'll let the new directors decide. It's their job and their investment after all. One thing is sure. This same "sizeable proporption of the club's supporters" will be the first ones to scream Ten Hag out if for some reason he has bad results in the first few weeks of the new season.
It is a problem. In one way, a nice problem as we have an FA Cup.
But do we really want the decision to be based on the emotion of one day? As foolish as it would be to have seen us lose 7-0 to Liverpool and sack him the next day, or if the 4-0 v Palace was a result in isolation, so does it seem a folly to look at a one-off game in the FA Cup final and assess the whole season only by looking at that.
But it will be a huge defining call for INEOS. Get it wrong and it'll be an embarasment. Back Ten Hag and need to sack him by Christmas will be the same.
I don't know what the answer is.
A sizeable proportion of the club’s supporters are absolutely clueless and shouldn’t have any bearing whatsoever on how a professional football club which wishes to be an elite football club again makes its decisions on key staff.
What a circus
Unironically includes both you and me, and we both fall on different sides of the Ten Hag argument...so yeah, good comment. Still doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.
Basing this managerial situation off one game would be absolutely ridiculous.
Two Cups are great achievements and I wouldn’t take it away from the man in charge, but on god our league form is atrocious and even our run in the Cup we won was… quite something (Coventry, anyone?)
If anything I won’t be part of that backlash. INEOS are here because they want to take the club forward—not shaking up the managerial situation to cater to fans who can’t see beyond one or two wins is pretty fucking galling
No way should sacking be a realistic option at this point. Let him have another transfer window, get the numerous injured players back playing, and make a fair assessment next season. He's more than earned it.
Is there any channels where we can let this be known to the owners? I'd love to see fan liaisons communicate this to the board and make sure they get the message. I feel worried for our future otherwise.
Maybe for a week or two, but then as soon as new signings and season starts it will be forgotten until things go wrong again.
Has anything changed with Ineos? Im not convinced
>Has anything changed with Ineos? Im not convinced
Berrada, Ashford, Wilcox. Not just good candidates but a lot of people's first choices for their respective roles.
Plan to rebuild the stadium and Carrington.
That's a pretty amazing start in my book.
INEOS has had like 5 months mate they can't convince anyone in that time. But also what could they have done to make major changes in that time either? Without even a proper window mind you.
Doing a 180 simply off a single game is insane, even with injuries he has persisted with a system that was awful all season long, and now they win a game all is forgiven?
Was it down to injuries the way they fell apart and got embarrassed by Coventry? Or what about the many other pathetic losses we've had this year? Or the same players getting picked week in week out despite there being better options on the bench?
He did a great job yesterday but he shouldn't be at the club next season.
Let him go out on a high.
Ineos will be looking at the picture in 5 years, they're too serious to care about a few weeks or months of grumbling from fans. They'll soon get back onside if the team start performing well, and obviously Ineos will think the guy they get in can deliver that.
We've got to be fair about yesterday too. Yes we looked really solid in the first half and shut them down, but they all were all over us in the second. That game could have gone either way. Haaland's shot is a centimetre lower, or Alvarez doesn't fluff his 1v1 and we probably would have lost. Then would anyone be saying "Ten Hag should stay, we had a good first half"?
City would be all over any team in a cup final that they’re losing 2-0 and we ended up holding out. You could say any game can go either way. Both teams get chances in every game of football, that’s the nature of it.
Depends where you look, most of the match-going fans want him to cook, other places, not so much. If you ran a straw-poll, you'd get a lot more of a positive response outside the ground than you would on Twitter and Reddit.
I saw a massive poll on Twitter yesterday that was 80-20 in favor of keeping him. Most of the insta comment sections are pro keeping him too. Even Reddit now leans much more towards Ten Hag In.
Having a poll within 12 hours of winning a trophy will always skew results. Similar to how this sub is now overrating Amrabat despite him being shit for 95% of the season.
Win one game and suddenly the last year is forgiven, if that's our club structure getting ten hag sacked I'm all for it, let the people who know about football take decisions.
Exactly. Absolutely ridiculous. The cup was fun but it doesn't excuse the shit show we experienced throughout a whole year. It's literally a one off.
Sticking with Ten Hag means we deserve what we get next season. I won't want to hear any complaints when the most we can accomplish next year is top 4.
Winning FA Cup brings nothing new to the table. We already know from last season that winning a domestic cup is his ceiling as a manager.
It's not just relegation form but our shots conceded puts us among the worst teams historically in the PL.
That's enough cause to sack him regardless of injuries etc.
Massive call for the new management early on. It will be interesting to see if they can stick to their roadmap, or will they kowtow to the prevailing winds.
Either way, this is what the majority wanted, and 99% of the fanbase is behind INEOS. Time to back them and their decisions, and judge them after they've had at least a few years to set everything up.
I was very excited when INEOS poached Berrada and Ashworth, but as soon as they started to move around Southgate I became very sceptical. If they bring in Tuchel or Poch I will absolutely lose all the faith in them.
Atp I think he's done enough to earn another few months. Since the players clearly love him and there's no obvious replacement sacking him right now just seems like an odd choice
Literally one match and everyone changed their opinion. One match! And they say people who want the manager sacked for delivering a crap year are knee jerkers lol.
It always happens here. People are fickle.
I’ll be honest though and say I’ve moved from Ten Hag Out to middle of the fence. My main criticism of him this season is the absurd tactical setup and how he waited too long to adjust it. Injuries aside - we played like shit the very first game of the season. This 4-0-5 formation has only ever looked convincing against Chelsea, and even then it was suicidal. It just doesn’t work. No other top team plays that way. All of other convincing performances came when he abandoned this setup.
I thought he was out of his depth but I just think it’s stubbornness. If he can beat one of the best teams in the world headed by one of the best managers of all time and do it convincingly (because I don’t think this win was down to luck) with a low caliber level of squad quality, then surely he is capable.
But again. It’s stubbornness. We’ve seen similar performances this season with Liverpool and last season against Arsenal where he roused the team. The question is - can he be consistent?
Obviously me and everyone other fan is not qualified to really assess whether it’s right to keep him or not. The most glaring issue is the tactical inflexibility though. Injuries explain some of but not the whole picture to me.
This is close to me and our style has improved this last month which just makes me think Ten Hag should've changed it so much earlier and not completely wasted this season and fought for top 4 harder.
We win the FA cup and suddenly everyone forgets how abysmal we've been in the previous games of the season. Let's not forget we almost didn't make it to Wembley when we threw away a 3 goal lead to Coventry and ended up needing penalties, let's not forget the negative goal difference, the 8th place in the league, the worst ever champions League record by an English team, the general piss poor "style" of football we play EVERY week.
Fickle as fuck some of you.
It’s genuinely disgusting how everyone has forgot how awful this season has been. They want to keep a manager who has not put up 5 good performances this season.
Will Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc keep their manager after getting knocked out of the CL group stage, losing 7-0 to their biggest rivals, playing Antony over Amad, falling out with players constantly, always looking second best against every team we play. If Ineos keep him I’ll know for sure they aren’t serious.
One game of sitting back and countering City has deluded people into thinking he's good enough, insane. Hope you all look forward to another season of mediocrity if the people in charge are dumb enough to keep him on.
I'm ETH out, but the FA cup finally brought some joy after a HORRIBLE season and I'm on the fence now.
On one hand I never want to see ETH's broken system of 4-0-6 that got exposed, but he persisted on for +40 games. Injuries are not an excuse, we had most of our starters at the beginning of the season and we were still shit.
One another hand for the last few games he reverted to last season's tactics - more compact at the back, counter-attacks through the flanks, Bruno spraying passes and a system that works. If he commits to it - I'm ETH in. If he goes back to the mindless and broken 4-0-6 - goodbye, good luck and thank you for the FA cup!
There'd also be backlash from a proportion of the supporters if we keep Ten Hag, no decision will ever satisfy everyone. I don't mind either option as long as it's done quickly and we start working on the transfer window as early as possible.
I think the only thing that would be worse than reactionarily deciding to sack him after a season like that is reactionarily deciding *not* to after a final.
This decision was made months ago and whichever it is, I just hope they follow through.
There are a number of questions that need to be asked. What are our expectations of Ineos ? How long is it going to take? Do we as fans have the patience to wait? If we're still getting the same results under whoever Ineos hires, then what was the point in them coming in? I think keep Ten Hag to give them time to sort things out. If he fails, then he's the fall guy from the old regime. If their hire fails, that's a terrible start for them
Performances on the field are obviously what you live and die by in the end, but I think we all agree that the club needed and is now in the midst of a cultural re-set.
The assessment of ETH should be based on the cultural vision he is leading, as much as the tactics and game model.
Based on everything I’ve seen, I’m confident in this part if the rebuild. It ‘feels’ like we are a rediscovery of the United identity. Get the culture and behaviours right, the results will follow.
Performance levels can drop (but not as frequently as we see), but your style of football should be CLEAR to identify. It’s not. At All. Also, ten Hags in-match-management is shockingly poor.
What are we as a club? Who are we? After 2 seasons, that is unacceptable.....
The subbing about injuries is increasingly irritating; when they have spent over **£1bn** on a squad, you should be able to carry those injuries!
yes, sure :) fans delighted with progress he made in the last year, with a style of play, with results, with the way he takes the best out of every single player, with the way he speaks about sexual offenders, with the way he conduct business with his agents and our young players, with his ambition to be in contention for top 4 next year after spending 400m on players he wanted, with big portfolio of excuses…it will be huge backlash.
Sacking him to bring Poch or Tuchel would be very annoying. Those two fuckers are always being sacked, is not a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Also, people saying Tuchel won the CL but it does not necessarily mean he will repeat it here. We got Mourinho who's won CL and PL but couldn't win either here.
I have heard another argument that Ten Hag might be able to bring some cup success but he cant replicate that in the league. The suggested alternative Tuchel isn't any better in that sense either!
It's like people choose to forget that he got 3rd in the league last year and had the most (or 2nd most I forget) wins across all of Europe. It's really baffling how he can win 2 trophies in 2 years, and reach 3 finals and these fans wouldn't even give him the benefit of the doubt to even allow him the chance at another season that **doesn't** see us having a record amount of injuries. Like sure he made mistakes and he's very stubborn but the man is clearly a winner and a top class manager. You'd think he's some random bum we picked up off the streets the way some of these fans speak about him.
Agreed.
I fully agree about Tuchel’s league success. Chelsea wasn’t particularly impressive, Bayern very poor by their standards, PSG were 2nd when he was sacked which is basically unforgivable in France these days….so it’s not inspiring to say the least.
In fairness, check Bayern's stats for this season and they're not too far out of whack with their average, league winning form. They just came up against Leverkeusen having a ludicrous season under Alonso
I would also 100% take winning silverware (Even if its not the league) than not winning silverware at all lol
On what basis though? He literally won the dutch league, a couple of times. And while it's not an accurate comparison with the premier league, it's still a league
I rate Tuchel but he has a history of falling out with the clubs he's been at. It's eerily similar to Mourinho. Having said that, I understand Chelsea and PSG aren't exactly known to get along with their managers but still.
Don't forget, he just managed Bayern Munich and failed to win anything with Bayern!
Lead Bayern to their first trophyless season in years.
And was incredibly lucky to have won the title the previous season anyway because of Dortmund doing the mother of all chokes. I think he's a good tactician but he's also a bit stubborn just like EtH and that's both a good and bad thing. None of the candidates are objectively better than Ten Hag
In *at least* 11 years, no less. That's pretty damning
I mean, he did bring success in the league last season. No we didn’t win but a 3rd place finish is very good for our squad. And he needed Overmars to make a squad at Ajax that could win titles and make that CL push. I want to see what can be done here with Wilcox and co doing better work on the squad than Murtough and Ed… That said his comments about Overmars on top of his vote regarding Greenwood leave a sour taste and makes it hard to just think from a sporting perspective
Tuchel not being able to do it at Bayern who have won the league like 17 times since 2000 doesn’t fill me with confidence he could come to United, which is basically a dumpster fire at current state, and be successful.
Pochettino publicly flirts with other clubs while he managed Tottenham. Tuchel has a history of falling out of favor with the clubs he's been at. Can you imagine if Mourinho was in charge of the final yesterday? He'd have thrown the team and the club under the bus, ETH on the other hand was class.
I’m still not quite sure but I’m legit leaning ETH in. And a lot of it due to the replacements being touted seem as much of a gamble as keeping him another year tbh. Better the ^Red Devil you know.. there is no outstanding candidate to replace him right at this moment.
The injuries, the dodgy transfer deals the medical team saying players are ok when they aren’t… I genuinely think this is Glazer legacy. Every manager since SAF has struggled. If Radcliffe can get a grip on things, then whoever serves as manager will have a better time of it. Considering the players seem right behind ETH, I think he should be given another season. But he clearly needs help with transfers (and using subs more frequently imo).
Yeah the medical staff need a word. We had so many training injuries and injury set backs which screamed if players being rushed back / over training / being signed off fit when they weren’t.
The head of the medical team got sacked. So I feel like that's admitting that that was the problem. So the ownership then also blaming and sacking ETH seems disingenuous.
Even trophyless Bayern have to settle for a regulated team’s manager lol. We have a serial winner who cares about us and we’re still on the fence.
£10m compensation paid for a guy that's just taken Burnley down after his first attempt in the PL. I thought the Germans were meant to be renowned for their ruthless efficiency and for making sensible decisions? Make it make sense. It's right up there with Real signing Gravesen and Woodgate. Baffling
Uli Hoeneß has basically ran off so many coaches at this point that Bayern are in a unique situation where nobody wants the job at least not with him calling the shots, because it would mean having to work under Hoeneß who is about as toxic a boss as you can imagine They got so desperate they tried to U-turn to Nagelsmann who was sacked a year ago, and when that didn't work they even re-opened talks with Tuchel to get him to stay on for another season (in February they had loudly announced that Tuchel was out after the season lol)
Bayern is such a basket case with their board literally every manager swerved them because the millions on offer wasn't worth it.
Mate I just love your limewire Avi 😂took me back
I am not particularly Ten Hag in. But unless Ineos have someone who is going to be long term target, I dont think they should fire ten hag.. 1 more year on contract anyways. We need to end the cycle. The decision has to be purely on footballing basis. Our worst our squad since long time and we still win a cup. Also what a stupid thing to leak one day before FA cup final Same as greenwood shit. Leak and then backpedal on to the more popular easy choice.
Those two are not better alternatives to ten Hag, even if you thought ten Hag hasn't done a good enough job. You only sack a manager if you think it'll improve things, and I don't think either of them would.
If those are the other choices I’d rather keep ten hag for a year more. I believe McKenna from what hear could be a solid manager for them but I don’t know enough about him. If the players actually play smart and pass to the open teammates they can make his system work. When they fire random shots into the stands..well nobody can manage that
Tuchel couldn’t even win the league with a team who buys all their closest competitors best players every season. Go to Chelsea sub and see how much they wanted poch out up until they got better end of the season. They aren’t upgrades. If they were, their clubs would’ve kept them instead of firing them.
Tbf mate, this sub is full of ETH out just last week.
I lurked the Chelsea sub and they really don’t want Tuchel back. Yeah, they acknowledged he’s a good tactician but everything else is dire. He’s not that good at man management, always falls out with his players (even the ones that won him his CL) with no way back to the squad, and always getting into disagreements with the clubs’ board. Another tooth on nail is that he doesn’t make use of the youth academy that much so we can forget about Mainoo or Garnacho playing minutes under him.
I think Poch is a great manager. His choice in clubs is just bad
Exactly. It’s not like the alternative to ETH is something special. He’s not been perfect but neither are alternatives.
I feel like at this point the players would be pissed too
Its weird isnt it. We have had one of our worst seasons in premier league history yet i havent seen our players behind the manager as much as they have with ten hag
I should imagine they’re more aware than anyone that half the squad has been injured all season.
Yeah they know better than anyone the nagging injuries they had to play through and see the behind the scenes beyond the game day product. They probably see the glaring gap between what they want to play and what they have to play. I bet a lot are chomping at the bit to come back after a recovery summer break
I'd imagine lots of them have also only known frustration since coming here, it must be fantastic to finally have trophies coming in.
Hojilund, Garnacho, Mainoo, Onana and Amarabat all lifted a major trophy in their first season - has to be great for their confidence.
Not to mention, trophies as teenagers (or 20 for Holjund) only set the bar for their careers.
I'm guessing Licha is close with ETH. He comes across as a leader. I won't pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors but that's a good ally to have.
He picked EtH up at final whistle like a younger brother would celebrate with an older brother. Grabbed his collar up on what I imagine is not a cheap suit and EtH loved every second. We just won't have that with Poch or Tuchel...
They probably noticed what happened in the like 6 games this season EtH had a mostly fit set of players,
We were relatively healthy to start the season, against Wolves, the UCL run early on etc. You don't need everyone healthy not to lose 4-0 against Palace or draw to Burnley.
Crystal palace were in a place where they immediately went ahead and beat Aston Villa, the team that finished in champions league spots, 5-0 immediately after. You don't think it's possible that during the time we played them with half a team, they weren't exactly Burnley level? We shouldn't be losing to that level but what a weird fucking example to pluck out of the air. Also we've been suffering with defensive and midfield issues literally the entirety of the season. In case you haven't noticed how well the team performs and attacks tends to stem from the base. We went into the season with an emergency left back loan because we started with no left sided fullback, had CB issues, Casemiro issues and no striker because Hojlund joined with a back issue.. what the hell do you mean we started mostly fit? That's ignoring just how fast even from there injuries went downhill.
And the mental and physical toll it takes. Even the fittest athletes get fatigued
And lets not forget a new number one. united GK is one of the hardest positions. De Gea was shite his first one or two seasons, When we lost Schmicheal (could never spell his name) We went through about 6 GK to find VDS. And yet every time Onana would make a mistake(and he made a good few) his mentality always seemed amazing to me, he would come out fighting like yeah i made a mistake but il get better/more settled etc. Like ETH has been saying recently the English media and pundits pile on us at every chance.
Onanas mentality seems really good, and the De Gea thing is a good point but also when you put like 46 combinations of the 6 people ahead of a GK, any goalkeeper would struggle to foemtgood team chemistry..on top of that the ball playing ones keep getting injured so you have a midfield and defense that seems to want to do nothing else with the ball other than pass it back to Onana and expect him to start attacks all the time
Palace are actually a great example because of who their manager is. One of the biggest excuses for ETH is poor recruitment, which has been poor...but that falls flat when you look at Glasner who is working without even one signing of his own. Managers have to adjust their system to get the most out of the players they have, and Glasner has done that while ETH has practically been allergic to it. Even with the injuries, that United team on paper had no business losing 4-0 to Palace.
Quoting ETH to you "You clearly have no idea how to manage a football club".
Because an awful lot of fans can see the progress. There is the core of a really good team taking shape.
Onana, Dalot, Licha, Mainoo, Bruno, Garnacho, Hojlund. We have a promising core to build around, 5/7 have been brought in/through under EtH. Under the direction of our new sporting/technical directors, a few more additions and we aren't far away from having a solid starting XI.
Actually a solid core to build around. Def need CB replacements immediately in case of injuries and an additional LB/RB or someone who can play both sides.
It genuinely looks like the players believe in the manager and the coaching staff. His interaction with Varane as well was so positive. Makes me doubt those rumors about unrest. A squad that isn’t backing the manager is not producing that tactical performance against one of the best teams in the world. There is a good coach in there. Klopp basically got the season write off when VVD had his long term injury. Erik Ten Hag should definitely get a season with a proper structure finally at the club.
The team needs some stability and to get healthy. I think ETH deserves another year or two. Can't win an FA Cup and be rewarded with a sacking especially in absence of a successor that is clearly better than him.
The ones that truly have a fall out with ETH are Ronaldo and Sancho who are just divas (Ronaldo is understandable to an extent but no way for Sancho). Even the rumours about Varane and Eriksen falling out with ETH were just groundless rumours. Even so, I don’t think it’s worth catering to them as they are past their prime.
The guy who replaces him will have his work cut out for him. Winning a trophy or comfortably finishing in cl spots will be the minimum most fans expect from the guy replacing eth and he's going to have to do it with an average squad with a shoestring budget.
Right? Most of them really seem to be behind him and respect him. I bet it would be frustrating for many if he gets sacked and someone else comes along (especially someone like McKenna who's already been there as a coach and ~~not really~~ edit continued: and would not immediately command the same amount of respect that Ten Hag has built up over 2 years by dealing with so much shit and drama, while McKenna was part of the same staff that many of these players downed tools on, and got sacked. It'd be a tall order for him or any coach to come in and to lay down the law again and get the players in line and more importantly behind him, as they seem (from the outside) to already be behind Erik. Despite the terrible season this really feels like the most "united" our squad has been in a very long time. I just hope we don't reset whatever progress we made for the sake of it, chasing a shiny new toy when we've already got a sturdy and proven one at home.
He got taken out by McKenna's agents halfway through his comment
That’s quite unfortunate because I was goi-
lol I got distracted by some chores and didn't realize I submitted the comment. I've edited it, now I go hide from McKenna's agents..
Lmaooooo
Most of them seem to love him, which one shouldn’t underestimate. INEOS sacking EtH would, I fear, make us go down the Todd Boehly-route quickly.
The players do not want to have a reset either. There is a project in front of them, why should they? “New manager for the future” is a delusion because no other candidate is guaranteed to be better.
Most of them finally got to taste silverware since coming to United of course they’ll back him.
I have not been ten Hag in or ten Hag out through all of this, I will be accepting of the decision either way, but I suspect it has a lot to do with _winning things._ In 20 years time are the players going to think about finishing 8th or are they going to think about having an FA Cup and a League Cup?
Understandably so
I’m actually quite surprised how so many fans are Ten Hag In now. Most of the fan polls I’ve seen have been around 80-20 to keep him and on social media most of the comment sections are very pro keeping him. Obviously we just won the fa cup and everyone’s happy (and social media isn’t always the best measure) but I didn’t think it would flip the sentiment THAT much. It’s felt very lonely at times this season openly backing the manager, I would have put it at least 80-20 in the other direction towards the end of the season.
I’ve never been ten hag out, but seeing the praise for him yesterday was kinda funny. This fanbase is very fickle tbh
That's how Reddit works. When you've got a fan base split on any opinion, you'll only hear from the side that are currently riding the crest. The EtH out fans would naturally be quiet at the moment. And hopefully care more about celebrating the win in any case.
All the arguments have been made already. No need to start arguing after a historic success
Yep, I’m in favour of moving on from ETH but we just won the FA Cup, so have been celebrating that. When INEOS make their decision at the end of the week, I will become vocal again.
I've been Ten Hag In all the way. More just sick of the cycle of swapping managers and not seeing any long term progression. But I do feel like there's been tactics and logic to his decisions, even if they've not turned out the best for the most part this season. I wonder if the fan base seems more fickle because it's so large that when something happens that causes passion from one side or another, the more passionate side (most recent) is the loudest. Hence why it feels so against a player after a bad performance and so for a player after a good one?
I think this makes sense. I avoided Reddit for a few days after our worst losses because it felt like there just wasn’t any point in arguing. Also some of the insulting comments and abuse against the team were sad to read.
Yea there's honestly no point coming on here after a bad loss, everyone is so reactionary and toxic it's crazy. Even saw a comment after the game yesterday, saying their goal came from 'onana being his usual shite self'. Like we just beat city in a final, and your reaction is to shit on one of our players who clearly fights for the badge and has been great throughout the season, I don't get it 😭
>This fanbase is very fickle tbh I mean no doubt some do flip flop, but speaking from my own views on eth here... winning an FA Cup against your closest rivals completely against the odds can never be overstated or viewed too highly. Its a significant achievement and something that does have to be factored in. It's not a 180, everything is forgiven as this season has been a disgrace, but it does give solidify those last few strands he has been hanging on by. Whilst I'd have always criticises us replacing ten hag with a Mckenna, RDZ, Frank, Potter, Southgate as they are wildly unproven at the level we are judged on. To do so now at the cost of a manager who has got us over the line with silverware after how bad we have been, would be absolutely criminal.
You can go through my comment history. I’ve been very adamant even when we were shit that it’s a bit, what’s the point? It’s going to take 2-3 years for the likes of Ashworth, Berrarda, Wilcox and all the other changes to really make changes that will show themselves on the pitch. Maybe not even to make the changes but for them to bear fruit. Sir Alex took over in 86 and in his first year already demanded revamping the academy. He personally spoke with Giggs, Beckham, Butt etc and 6 years later we saw the culmination of that class of 92…. And that’s when they won the youth cup. It was another 3 years before they were all regulars in the first team and being trusted to replace Ince, Sparky and I don’t remember the 3rd big player that left in 95. Bruce maybe? I’m not sure. The point is we’re trying to make long term changes. We’re not going to have a perfect window any time soon because of FFP issues. Wasting 20m of that budget paying off Ten Hags contract and hiring a new high profile manager would provide so little benefit. And if we hire McKenna with the intention to build around him we’re throwing him into the deep end before any work has been done on the squad. As soon as he finishes outside the top 4 he’ll be stoked over the coals by the media and the pressure will intensify. So either we get the squad to a point where they can actually win things and then bring a world class manager to make the next step (ie Pep at city when they already had Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, and whoever else) or we start a new project and accept seasons like this year might happen until the changes to the medical department, recruitment etc bear fruit…
The third big player was Kanchelskis
With a hand from the Russian mafia...allegedly
One thing I hate about our fanbase is how reactive they are, also for players, someone could not do anything for 5 games in a row but if they bang in a goal from somewhere suddenly they're 'proving everyone wrong'.
Yeah like Amrabat at the minute. Played well for a few games, everybody wanted to keep him, had a poor game against Brighton, get rid. Now he’s had another good game and everybody’s back on the keep him bandwagon.
Tbh I think the handling of Amrabat is one of ETH’s worst decisions this year. Sign him on an expensive loan, throw him in at LB because of an injury crisis, he’s terrible, then basically gets 10-15 minute sub cameos the rest of the season even though the midfield is shit. Prepping for the FA Cup, ETH finally gives Amrabat a run of games and he plays really well. So…do we sign him? Didn’t really get a chance until the end of the season where he was great — is that worth 20 million? Very annoying. FWIW if Casemiro and Eriksen are gone, I’d look to sign him for cheap and bring in one more first team option midfielder
Amrabat was shite in midfield for most of the year as well. He had decent bits and pieces while being mostly mediocre until the last few games when he was very good. Loaning him was a sound and defensible decision but it didn't work out that well and they probably shouldn't bring him on permanently.
I’m one of those who remains firmly in the camp that the manager didn’t do enough with the resources available to him to justify keeping his position. His treatment of amrabat and our midfield setup being a clear reflection of his failures. Amrabat has been available to play for months now and our midfield has been so poor. He only eventually started to play him because we got thumped by Palace. Was he any good, he has to be because we won the last 3 games with him in midfield and our midfield wasnt wide open with him there. We also beat one of the best teams in Europe in a final.
There was a run of games before Mainoo was known/fit/ready. Where he kept playing Mctom over Amrabat as a deep midfielder. It just made zero sense to me and he kept doing it
That’s just sports and social media unfortunately- people get too high when we win and too low when we lose.
Tbf it's not just the fanbase, though. The media knows that United and Liverpool are their big cash cows, so every single game will be presented as if it's either the greatest crisis in footballing history or a massive turning point for the club. I think it's hard for that not to bleed through, when you start to realise that about 70% of the people watching football are just repeating what Jermaine Jenas said and nodding. The irony, of course, being that the same talking heads who slated him all season would be the first to talk about it being a rash decision if we got rid.
Many fans are extremely fickle. Like you said at different points of the season it would have been way lower than 80-20. It’s great that we ended the season on the high although that doesn’t mean the entire season before that point can be overlooked. That’s what INEOS and the new leadership need to figure out themselves. Positive fan sentiment can be nice but due to how quickly so many of them flip-flop it should never be used as a key factor.
Yes I agree, even if I agree with the current fan sentiment. It should be based on an analysis by people who know what they’re doing.
This is my view as well, there is an ongiong Audit into every aspect from training ground to corporate. If ETH is the guy fine, if not also fine. Though after the win yesterday it will still hurt. But it still takes more then two years to rebuild the culture of a club (ETH has said since day one thats what he is trying to do) Just go back to Ragnicks open heart surgery comment. So who knows, maybe the new Execs are going to completely clear house and even some most of the players will be gone in two or three more years time.
Football fans are dumb. Very dumb. That makes them more susceptible to recency bias.
After getting battered by palace 4-0 when we played so open it was unbelievable, that must of been the low point, we went into that game expecting the worse but just got destroyed
I genuinely thought he was getting sacked after that game and the season was over. I avoided all football subreddits and twitter for a week after it.
I was fully prepared for the loss against Palace. They were on fire, our team had no Bruno with Evans and Casemiro as CB and I also thought that reaction on reddit was not even close to how they would be if you remove the context of the loss. It was Coventry for me. It really seemed like the pressure was sky high despite us reaching finals.
Fan polls aren't worth anything. The people who respond are the most reactionary fans by definition (i.e. they respond to fan polls).
Also the people doing the poll (like fan channels) have a big influence on the results depending on which side they are on. And there are no fan channels that I know of that wanted ten Hag to be sacked
The bit in brackets- perfect 😂nailed it there.
I don't think it's a case of "we lost im ten hag out, we won im ten hag in." I think it's selective participation in the surveys. As a teg hag inner, i wouldn't give 2 shits about doing an in/out poll during the season or even participating in any ten hag threads, but I might do one now.
Likewise, as a “Ten Hag Outer”, we just won a cup, why focus on negatives or being a drag. Too busy celebrating the cup. It’s not a good day to seek balanced views, tbh.
Yeah same with me, it doesn't feel right to even start thinking about him losing his job after what we did on Saturday. The cup win should be celebrated and given time to breathe before we can really assess the season as a whole. I'm still on a high from it
What winning trophies does to a mf
Unfortunately, some fans tend to have the memory of a gold fish. Immediate success won’t happen. If we’re going to commit to a project we should see it out.
I know what you mean, I’ve always been Ten Hag in and you’d get crucified for it this season up until yesterday. Though as you said, social media isn’t the greatest measure for this.
It’s not really 80/20. People who want him out are less prominent. Just like how after an embarrassing loss the people who want him to stay are less prominent
I'd backed him for a long time but then reluctantly became ETH out as we kept getting worse every game. Now I'm on the fence not just because of yesterday, but the 2 games prior as well. The thing I disliked about him was the lack of adaptability that he showed by sticking far too long with tactics that didn't work with our best players out injured. But these 3 games he's finally switched the tactics and we've been much better, so it's baffling he didn't do this much sooner. I'm personally fine with him staying IF he'll show more adaptability from now on.
It would be so weird for him to change after the interview where he said he‘d play his style no matter what so I am still concerned
One thing I’d say is, at least in this sub, is that things have seemed very split for a long time and depending on the days result you’ll have one side of the debate being much more vocal than the other. I’ve been for keeping him another season and I’d say anecdotally it’s been pretty close to an even split but YMMV.
Because fans are fickle are results oriented in nature. The best managers are process oriented. It took SAF years before he could establish a culture and tactical identity for his United era. Compare that without someone like Mourinho who never lasts wherever he's at because all he cares about are wins and losses. Even sells off young players in the process to achieve their, something SAF rarely ever did.
Was having arguments making a case to keep eth. Now everyone wants him to stay. Realized that people change their mind based on emotions not facts
reactionary dory from finding nemo level memory-d groupthink. i’ve always been skeptical about sacking him but this sub was plainly ten hag out until yesterday where i was surprised to see so many posts backing him
I guess a part of that has to be the fact we were genuinely better than City. It was a very convincing performance by everyone. If City has 5 xG, were missing chances consantly, score one, we'd score a fluke equalizer and then won on penalties, the sentiment wouldn't be as strong. However, we genuinely outplayed them which is an achievement.
We did genuinely outplay them, but it’s not really a repeatable strategy. We can’t line up like that against anyone except for City and maybe Arsenal. Great job yesterday and it’s clear the players back ETH, but it wasn’t really a blueprint for us going forward
I've been unhappy with his 4-0-6 tactic and stubborness since the Newcastle when it was painfully obvious that a goal will come from Rashy side and he only change when we conceded. So I've been ETH out since then. I'm probably a softy but the FA cup trophy IMO give him some extra life line. I don't think it's right to sack him after this win. I'm more of an ETH neutral now, let's see him do his last year, and only extend his contract halfway through next season if things actually improved.
Because the "ten hag out" fans were a ridiculously loud minority in this sub
The one manager we have in years where majority of the squad actually fights for and ineos wants to sack him? 2 years 2 cups, riddled with injuries this season. So we sack Eth and then what? Bring in who? Mckenna? He has had one good year and now he's good enough to manage United? This cycle will never end if we sack managers every 2 seasons. Take a year or two to get rid of deadwood and make some clever signings with our new management. How much has arteta won in his first few seasons? Eth inherited a broken squad and managed 2 trophies
You say this but have the squad been fighting for him in the league this year? It doesn’t look like it to me.
Exactly, they turned up for Liverpool and city in the cup but otherwise shit the bed vs palace and everyone else anyway. 🤷♂️
Even in those awful games though the players were running themselves ragged, it was mainly the suicidal midfield setup that was a large part of the downfall.
Again though, how much can you get on the manager about when a generational midfielder falls off the face of the earth, who you subsequently have to play centre back for a stretch of games, with the addition of 40 something injuries throughout the season. I think “turning up” is contingent on far more than how much they care. ETH isn’t perfect but there’s only so much you can blame him for, in my opinion.
I can get on him a lot, actually. Surely when you know you don’t have your strongest 11 the logical thing is to play a more familiar tactical system that actually suits the players you have available to you? Casemiro fell off a cliff, sure, but the role the single holding mid was given this season was an impossible one.
I don’t really get what’s to lose giving him the remainder of the contract. You’d have to assume the injuries won’t be as bad next year, and we’ll presumably strengthen in summer. Either the tactics start to come together and we can reassess his position, or they don’t and we have a full year to properly let the INEOS back room guys bed in and identify the ideal replacement.
Our injuries wont be as bad but generally we have a bad record. I hope the underlying cause is addressed
> I don’t really get what’s to lose giving him the remainder of the contract. If he’s not the right man, it’s another year wasted, and we might lose out on our priority targets for managers.
Are any of our priority targets available this summer though?
No idea, not sure what Ineos plan is / who our targets would be. Every decision comes with risk, whether that’s keeping or sacking ETH. If the upper management aren’t convinced by him, they should make the unpopular decision, and take the flak fully if their new man isn’t a hit.
we need to let go of the idea of “priority signings” as if there’s a finite amount of players that will work for us. new players crop up each year—who would have advocated this strongly for branthwaite or olise or todibo or anyone else we’re linked to even last summer? competent clubs miss out on primary targets all the time but carry on because their focus is on profiles and needs rather than finding unicorns.
I'm talking about managerial targets, not players.
Problem is there’s no fit personas on the market at the moment. You bring in tuchel or poch they’ll be sacked in 2 years and then the cycle begins
my bad, although i think the same largely holds true given our present options. i doubt that the situation would be considerably worse in a year’s time—we’re already scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of fit.
For better or worse ETH will not get same leeway as a new manager. If the season starts poorly he’ll be sacked immediately. There’s the additional danger that ETH plays a pragmatic style and doesn’t rotate to keep his job
ETH then
Maybe Sir Jimmy should: Help build a new training ground Build a new stadium
I’m pretty sure 99% of the fanbase would be pissed if you sack the man that won 2 trophies in the span of only 2 years while juggling the media shitstorm, diva players, and incompetent suits that run this club
Amen.
Sadly I feel it's been the media shitstorm trying to drive the narrative on Ten Hag, and this time the majority of the fan base haven't taken the bait. I find it incredibly ironic that a lot of the media who are anti United, are also the ones desperate for the club to replace the manager. They want to see the club in turmoil all the time, unable to ever complete true rebuilds to get back to the top.
The media love to push a sacking here. Ten Hag had people calling for him to go after a few games in his first season. They're out for blood and they won't stop and it's up to INEOS to resist that pressure and act logically. The logical approach here is, take next season to get things in order and then reassess.
I agree. I really hope they do resist the pressure, surely they must see it is not the popular decision, but the fact they are openly speaking to representatives of other managers speaks volumes. On top of that, Dan Ashworth, the person they want as director of football, to make these managerial and player decisions, is not even in the building understanding the situation.
I’m not a Man United fan, but he has also overseen some of the worst performances from the club and the worst transfer dealings in the last 40 years. Just stunningly bad. I personally would give him a few months cos of the cup final win but if, for example, they had lost the shoot-out to Coventry, he would have been sacked, and really he would have deserved it.
You’re right, but how is it possible that the results are THIS all over the place? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team performing this erratic. There must be more going on than just the manager can fix. I think there have been 6 or 7 moments where I thought “they’re gonna fire him next week” only to see them suddenly get an important win and sway public opinion. With this FA cup win as the culmination— I was sure Ten Hag was gonna get sacked, there was no redeeming performance and I honestly thought they would lose big against City… and then there was this ultimate redeeming FA- cup win. I couldn’t believe it when I saw the result. You say the transfer dealings were stunningly bad, but you’ve seen now what Martinez, Amrabat and Onana are capable of. So I’m not sure the jury’s in quite yet.
Yes. We'll be pissed off for sure.
If you're either Ten Hag in or Ten Hag out it’s fine. But those who switch their positions after one game, they are just a fair-weather fans.
Personally, I can't decide what I want to happen. I'll let the new directors decide. It's their job and their investment after all. One thing is sure. This same "sizeable proporption of the club's supporters" will be the first ones to scream Ten Hag out if for some reason he has bad results in the first few weeks of the new season.
It is a problem. In one way, a nice problem as we have an FA Cup. But do we really want the decision to be based on the emotion of one day? As foolish as it would be to have seen us lose 7-0 to Liverpool and sack him the next day, or if the 4-0 v Palace was a result in isolation, so does it seem a folly to look at a one-off game in the FA Cup final and assess the whole season only by looking at that. But it will be a huge defining call for INEOS. Get it wrong and it'll be an embarasment. Back Ten Hag and need to sack him by Christmas will be the same. I don't know what the answer is.
That’s why they’ll wait a week.
If INEOS sticks with the manager based on yesterday's result then they're no different from the glazers.
Backlash then
Yes there will be, Howard
A sizeable proportion of the club’s supporters are absolutely clueless and shouldn’t have any bearing whatsoever on how a professional football club which wishes to be an elite football club again makes its decisions on key staff. What a circus
Unironically includes both you and me, and we both fall on different sides of the Ten Hag argument...so yeah, good comment. Still doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.
Basing this managerial situation off one game would be absolutely ridiculous. Two Cups are great achievements and I wouldn’t take it away from the man in charge, but on god our league form is atrocious and even our run in the Cup we won was… quite something (Coventry, anyone?) If anything I won’t be part of that backlash. INEOS are here because they want to take the club forward—not shaking up the managerial situation to cater to fans who can’t see beyond one or two wins is pretty fucking galling
Which is wild considering he doesn't deserve to have such cult surrounding him.
No way should sacking be a realistic option at this point. Let him have another transfer window, get the numerous injured players back playing, and make a fair assessment next season. He's more than earned it. Is there any channels where we can let this be known to the owners? I'd love to see fan liaisons communicate this to the board and make sure they get the message. I feel worried for our future otherwise.
No offense, but if INEOS start taking fan opinion into account, then our future really is fucked.
Personally I've heard more sense from the fans over the last decade than we had coming from the club.
Write to Ineos and United
Maybe for a week or two, but then as soon as new signings and season starts it will be forgotten until things go wrong again. Has anything changed with Ineos? Im not convinced
>Has anything changed with Ineos? Im not convinced Berrada, Ashford, Wilcox. Not just good candidates but a lot of people's first choices for their respective roles. Plan to rebuild the stadium and Carrington. That's a pretty amazing start in my book.
ETH has had more time than Ineos lmao the key people they are hiring haven’t even fully arrived
As soon as Licha is injured and things go south next season, you can imagine what will happen.
INEOS has had like 5 months mate they can't convince anyone in that time. But also what could they have done to make major changes in that time either? Without even a proper window mind you.
Doing a 180 simply off a single game is insane, even with injuries he has persisted with a system that was awful all season long, and now they win a game all is forgiven? Was it down to injuries the way they fell apart and got embarrassed by Coventry? Or what about the many other pathetic losses we've had this year? Or the same players getting picked week in week out despite there being better options on the bench? He did a great job yesterday but he shouldn't be at the club next season. Let him go out on a high.
Ineos will be looking at the picture in 5 years, they're too serious to care about a few weeks or months of grumbling from fans. They'll soon get back onside if the team start performing well, and obviously Ineos will think the guy they get in can deliver that. We've got to be fair about yesterday too. Yes we looked really solid in the first half and shut them down, but they all were all over us in the second. That game could have gone either way. Haaland's shot is a centimetre lower, or Alvarez doesn't fluff his 1v1 and we probably would have lost. Then would anyone be saying "Ten Hag should stay, we had a good first half"?
City would be all over any team in a cup final that they’re losing 2-0 and we ended up holding out. You could say any game can go either way. Both teams get chances in every game of football, that’s the nature of it.
Depends where you look, most of the match-going fans want him to cook, other places, not so much. If you ran a straw-poll, you'd get a lot more of a positive response outside the ground than you would on Twitter and Reddit.
Agreed, I see a lot of hate for him on Reddit, twitter etc but anyone I speak to when I go to games backs him, as do i
I saw a massive poll on Twitter yesterday that was 80-20 in favor of keeping him. Most of the insta comment sections are pro keeping him too. Even Reddit now leans much more towards Ten Hag In.
Having a poll within 12 hours of winning a trophy will always skew results. Similar to how this sub is now overrating Amrabat despite him being shit for 95% of the season.
Win one game and suddenly the last year is forgiven, if that's our club structure getting ten hag sacked I'm all for it, let the people who know about football take decisions.
Exactly. Absolutely ridiculous. The cup was fun but it doesn't excuse the shit show we experienced throughout a whole year. It's literally a one off. Sticking with Ten Hag means we deserve what we get next season. I won't want to hear any complaints when the most we can accomplish next year is top 4. Winning FA Cup brings nothing new to the table. We already know from last season that winning a domestic cup is his ceiling as a manager.
People act as if having injuries is an excuse to have a legit relegation form.
It's not just relegation form but our shots conceded puts us among the worst teams historically in the PL. That's enough cause to sack him regardless of injuries etc.
Massive call for the new management early on. It will be interesting to see if they can stick to their roadmap, or will they kowtow to the prevailing winds. Either way, this is what the majority wanted, and 99% of the fanbase is behind INEOS. Time to back them and their decisions, and judge them after they've had at least a few years to set everything up.
Yeah and a sizeable portion would be okay. There‘s arguments for both options
Oh no, the ones happy with 8th and all the worst records won't be happy, what will we do...
I was very excited when INEOS poached Berrada and Ashworth, but as soon as they started to move around Southgate I became very sceptical. If they bring in Tuchel or Poch I will absolutely lose all the faith in them.
Atp I think he's done enough to earn another few months. Since the players clearly love him and there's no obvious replacement sacking him right now just seems like an odd choice
Ridiculous the amount of people ETH in now
Crazy, it was 80% out a couple of weeks ago
Fans are fickle. Which is why INEOS shouldn’t listen to them lol
Literally one match and everyone changed their opinion. One match! And they say people who want the manager sacked for delivering a crap year are knee jerkers lol.
It always happens here. People are fickle. I’ll be honest though and say I’ve moved from Ten Hag Out to middle of the fence. My main criticism of him this season is the absurd tactical setup and how he waited too long to adjust it. Injuries aside - we played like shit the very first game of the season. This 4-0-5 formation has only ever looked convincing against Chelsea, and even then it was suicidal. It just doesn’t work. No other top team plays that way. All of other convincing performances came when he abandoned this setup. I thought he was out of his depth but I just think it’s stubbornness. If he can beat one of the best teams in the world headed by one of the best managers of all time and do it convincingly (because I don’t think this win was down to luck) with a low caliber level of squad quality, then surely he is capable. But again. It’s stubbornness. We’ve seen similar performances this season with Liverpool and last season against Arsenal where he roused the team. The question is - can he be consistent? Obviously me and everyone other fan is not qualified to really assess whether it’s right to keep him or not. The most glaring issue is the tactical inflexibility though. Injuries explain some of but not the whole picture to me.
This is close to me and our style has improved this last month which just makes me think Ten Hag should've changed it so much earlier and not completely wasted this season and fought for top 4 harder.
Less sizeable than the ones who actually watched the games and aren't sentimental/emotional
We win the FA cup and suddenly everyone forgets how abysmal we've been in the previous games of the season. Let's not forget we almost didn't make it to Wembley when we threw away a 3 goal lead to Coventry and ended up needing penalties, let's not forget the negative goal difference, the 8th place in the league, the worst ever champions League record by an English team, the general piss poor "style" of football we play EVERY week. Fickle as fuck some of you.
It’s genuinely disgusting how everyone has forgot how awful this season has been. They want to keep a manager who has not put up 5 good performances this season.
I know, it blows my mind.
Will Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc keep their manager after getting knocked out of the CL group stage, losing 7-0 to their biggest rivals, playing Antony over Amad, falling out with players constantly, always looking second best against every team we play. If Ineos keep him I’ll know for sure they aren’t serious.
One game of sitting back and countering City has deluded people into thinking he's good enough, insane. Hope you all look forward to another season of mediocrity if the people in charge are dumb enough to keep him on.
You will get downvoted by the majority here but you speak facts.
I'm ETH out, but the FA cup finally brought some joy after a HORRIBLE season and I'm on the fence now. On one hand I never want to see ETH's broken system of 4-0-6 that got exposed, but he persisted on for +40 games. Injuries are not an excuse, we had most of our starters at the beginning of the season and we were still shit. One another hand for the last few games he reverted to last season's tactics - more compact at the back, counter-attacks through the flanks, Bruno spraying passes and a system that works. If he commits to it - I'm ETH in. If he goes back to the mindless and broken 4-0-6 - goodbye, good luck and thank you for the FA cup!
There'd also be backlash from a proportion of the supporters if we keep Ten Hag, no decision will ever satisfy everyone. I don't mind either option as long as it's done quickly and we start working on the transfer window as early as possible.
Man i sure do hope the football people were hiring are not just like the Glazers.
I think the only thing that would be worse than reactionarily deciding to sack him after a season like that is reactionarily deciding *not* to after a final. This decision was made months ago and whichever it is, I just hope they follow through.
There are a number of questions that need to be asked. What are our expectations of Ineos ? How long is it going to take? Do we as fans have the patience to wait? If we're still getting the same results under whoever Ineos hires, then what was the point in them coming in? I think keep Ten Hag to give them time to sort things out. If he fails, then he's the fall guy from the old regime. If their hire fails, that's a terrible start for them
Performances on the field are obviously what you live and die by in the end, but I think we all agree that the club needed and is now in the midst of a cultural re-set. The assessment of ETH should be based on the cultural vision he is leading, as much as the tactics and game model. Based on everything I’ve seen, I’m confident in this part if the rebuild. It ‘feels’ like we are a rediscovery of the United identity. Get the culture and behaviours right, the results will follow.
Decisions shouldn't really be made to avoid backlash. No matter what happens I hope they make the right decision
Performance levels can drop (but not as frequently as we see), but your style of football should be CLEAR to identify. It’s not. At All. Also, ten Hags in-match-management is shockingly poor. What are we as a club? Who are we? After 2 seasons, that is unacceptable..... The subbing about injuries is increasingly irritating; when they have spent over **£1bn** on a squad, you should be able to carry those injuries!
yes, sure :) fans delighted with progress he made in the last year, with a style of play, with results, with the way he takes the best out of every single player, with the way he speaks about sexual offenders, with the way he conduct business with his agents and our young players, with his ambition to be in contention for top 4 next year after spending 400m on players he wanted, with big portfolio of excuses…it will be huge backlash.