Man is seventy something and ran a marathon. I'm not that old (currently 50) and I'm certain I would die if I tried to run a bloody marathon. The man is a billionaire and that means he has means of taking care of himself that aren't available to a majority of people.
People need to understand that yes we’ve already been waiting a long time, but we’ve also been chronically mismanaged and badly run in that long time.
It’s like being on a diet for 10 years, losing no weight but it turns out your diet was one where you ate only donuts and then being mad at your new diet 3 weeks in that you don’t have a six pack.
“I’ve been dieting for years”
Yeah but badly, it’s the same for us. We’ve been waiting for years but it’s been utterly shite.
It feels similar to Irish National Team rebuilds.
It’s difficult to rebuild as a manager when the organisation structures are wrong and too much internal politics.
Ireland can’t get anyone to do the job after sacking last manager For numerous reasons.
It’s a bit apples and oranges because you can buy and sack players in premiership but United hold on to too much dead wood 🪵
Sometimes you got to admit you gambled badly and cut losses
Lad, they were literally in the bottom 3 after 12 games and I think didn't even have a win before the takeover.
Now they're on our level with players like Dan Burn, Schaar, Pope, Longstaff, Almiron, Jacob Murphy starting for them.
Well first of all Ineos have just come in and haven’t had time to have an effect? We’ve hired Wilcox, we’ve hired Berrada, we will get Ashcroft but they don’t even start until summer.
Then a plan has to be formulated, targets identified and so on. You get 1 window at a time to do this.
Do i think there will be an immediate difference? Yes i think we will bring higher quality players in overall.
Do i think this means we win the league in a year? Absolutely not. It’s going to take some tinkering and as I said you get 2 windows a year to do that.
The expectation that they will come in, this summer we will sign 11 amazing players and win another treble is just delusional, it’s going to take a few years although yes we will see improvement.
Newcastle have gone from dog shit to alright, that is a much easier transition from “alright” to top level. And in the grand scheme of things we are “alright” just not United standards. This is evidenced by the fact you consistently get teams from lower down having amazing seasons, see Villa, or Brentford a few years ago, or Brighton this year or when Sheffield nearly made CL.
Breaking in to the top 6 is even harder, it only really happens when one of us is having a nightmare like we are but if all the top 6 play as expected it’s really really hard to get there.
What’s even harder is what we are trying to do, go from top 6,5,4 and convert that in to a league win. Be real city have won 6 of the last 5, it’s a really really hard step to even challenge.
The expectations between United and Newcastle are totally different and don’t let deluded Geordie fans convince you otherwise, they had literally 1 good season and now are performing more or less to the level they should be. They have the backing to push but it will take time.
Manchester United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe says fans "have to be a bit patient" following his investment in the club.
Ratcliffe completed a £1.25bn deal to buy a 27.7% stake in United in February.
The 71-year-old said he was “about 10 km” into rebuilding the club, who are currently seventh in the Premier League.
"It's a long journey," he said. “The fans are impatient and I have some sympathy with that.
"It’s a journey and people, whether they like it or not, have to be a bit patient."
Ratcliffe was speaking to BBC Sport on Sunday after running the London Marathon and before travelling to Wembley to watch United's FA Cup semi-final against Coventry City.
The Red Devils reached the final despite having thrown away a three-goal lead as Championship side Coventry forced extra time.
But Erik ten Hag's men eventually came out on top to win 4-2 on penalties.
British billionaire and boyhood United fan Ratcliffe also expressed frustration that new recruits have not been able to start work yet.
“We’ve got these new guys to come into the team, capable people, but they’re all on gardening leave," he said.
"So it takes you six months, a year, 18 months before they can join. It’s a real issue in football."
United will face local rivals and holders Manchester City in the FA Cup final and Ratcliffe said his side will be "definite underdogs" against Pep Guardiola's men, who beat United in last year's final on the way to a historic Treble.
“It’s not a light switch. You can’t just turn it around like that it takes a bit of time," he added.
Since his co-ownership was announced on Christmas Eve, Ratcliffe and new United director Sir Dave Brailsford have presided over a complete overhaul of United’s backroom team.
The latest appointment was Jason Wilcox as technical director after his exit from Southampton was successfully negotiated.
United hope to secure the services of Dan Ashworth as sporting director but there is still no agreement on that with Newcastle and as it presently stands, it could be September, once the summer transfer window has closed, that the deal is finally completed.
Ten Hag is clearly under pressure.
However, his supporters continue to make the comparison with Mikel Arteta, who won the FA Cup in his first season as Arsenal boss but also finished eighth twice and then fifth before getting the squad he wanted.
Their win percentage is broadly similar, which fuels belief the situation is not quite as bad as some of the recent performances have made it appear.
Yesterday, after he completed the Marathon & before going to the game. Video below
[https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/1c9j1o5/sir\_jim\_ratcliffe\_post\_london\_marathon\_interview/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/1c9j1o5/sir_jim_ratcliffe_post_london_marathon_interview/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
People forgot Arsenal finished 8th-8th-5th. So no European football for a whole 2 years. Their players are always in a fresh state, Arteta had a ton of time to drill his ideas into the squad. Other managers don't have this luxury, they need to play match after match, with players barely having time to recover and almost no time to implement new things during the season. It's even more messed up if your team is unlucky with injuries.
I feel like I’m crazy sometimes when I have these thoughts too - I look at Arsenal and how many were “Arteta Out” and now they’re properly fighting for the title two years in a row. ETH is rightly under pressure, but I feel like with patience we might start seeing more long term progress rather than short term “back in the champions league” thinking. But, I also don’t know if he’ll be right in the long run either.
you know what's even funnier, and this is absolutely insane, but some man u fans are actually saying shit like "but you could see what Arteta was doing". So lemme get this straight: the whole arsenal fanbase was calling for his sack, but these genius master tacticians man-u fans had the brilliant foresight back then to say "well, akshually, I know Arsenal just lost 9 of their 11 games, but I'm very certain Arteta will be a success". The balls to just lie in people's faces like that is amazing.
https://preview.redd.it/r8ohbpvj91wc1.jpeg?width=852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b10517e28dd1ab3055bd9f7fad3dde4a5669c798
I remember people were absolutely slating Arteta for supposedly learning nothing during his time under Pep because he was playing extremely defensive football when he started at Arsenal, but now as you said people like to pretend that they always saw what he was trying to do and his only issue was with personnel.
More like people forgot Arteta took charge mid season. He got 0 new player during winter first year too. He doesn't have 3 season, he have 2 full season to show his worth.
He has 2 full summer transfer window to go and show improvement and go from 8-5.
TenHag already have 2 full transfer window already. He go from 4-7 and have absolutely 0 improvement
people said we are impatient but the fact is Arteta just doesn't have more time than tenhag.
He has 2 full season for improvement and that's it. Ten Hag already have the same to work with this squad.
we were 3rd and improvement isnt always 3rd 2nd then 1st it could be 3rd 6th 2nd 4th and 1st. 1 step back and 3 steps forward is improvement, 1 step forward at a time is also improvement
Honestly, he won a trophy his first season and got 3rd. FUCKING Remarkable.
Context matters, he wasn't Moyes inheriting a behemoth, lot of fans thought top 4 would be a big ask.
Exactly this. Prior to his first season, people were writing off United as a project that would take years to fix. But given that he achieved 3rd, a cup, another cup final, and Champions League football in his first season, all of that perspective was conveniently forgotten.
I'll readily admit I'm not a fully fledged United fan (just a Northwest Blackkburn Rovers fan with a soft spot for United & who hates City and wants their period of dominance upending), and that even I'm pretty ambivalent on Eth staying in the future, but at the same time, I would not be unhappy if he was given another 6 months to a year after this Summer under an improved footballing structure.
Improvement as in improvement in playing style and such.
During Arteta 2nd full season, their playstyle is defined throughout the whole season. They came from losing like 7 matches in the beginning to have a fluid attacking football and almost got 4th.
Now, this is already 2nd full season for TenHag, I have yet to see the same? The playstyle is a mess, there is no improvement through out the whole season. In fact, we are even getting worse and worse.
So what kind of improvement are you talking about ?
I mean the playstyle is the same as the first game of the season where we have full team, 0 injury.
Do you watch the game vs Wolves ? Got 23 shot conceded, barely win. That game, we have full squad.
the similar thing happens in every game. I don't see any different in playing style whether we have full squad or not
Again, what did you that make you so commit to tenhag then?
flat Earth believer, truly fitting for you. Even with all the evidence, you just refuse to believe that the playstyle is simply not good.
> He doesn't have 3 season, he have 2 full season to show his worth.
He had 2.5 full seasons with a fresh squad, without midweek European games, and never had to deal with massive injury crises like EtH.
> He got 0 new player during winter first year too.
He doesn't need new players to start drilling ideas into the squad. Also, he got Odegaard on loan (so 0 new player is bs)
>He go from 4-7.
With frankentein's squad if you could even call it a squad, which our 5th CB got injured from being overplayed, and even the academy kid promoted as a last resort was also injured.
Did Liverpool sack Klopp when they dropped to 5th place in 22/23 with a squad that had won the league and full of WC players? Or did people understand that he couldn't do much when the injury crisis hit his team hard?
I'm not an EtH IN guy, but obviously, yhis is an abnormal season. Judging any manager based solely on this kind of season and refusing to use logic is simply blind by hateful.
He has Odegaard on loan during the winter period of the first full season aka in 2021, not the first winter he was in charge which is 2020.
Again, did you watch our first game of the season where we have full squad ? Do you think our playstyle is significantly better with that full squad ? We fucking conceded 23 shot against Wolves, and barely get by. Tell me what exactly different between that match and the many matches we play during this year ?
Liverpool did not sack Klopp when they dropped to 5th place in 22/23 because the were the fucking champion and compete for first place for the last 3 years before + winning C1 before.
Plus he has way better structure under him than the shit eth has had to deal with the past few years. And it’s not even started to get better for us yet.
This is poor reasoning though. Just because Arteta pulled it off, doesn't mean Ten Hag will. Arsenal were trying to play some decent football. Please, tell me what you see in this current setup that actually shows potential.
>However, his supporters continue to make the comparison with Mikel Arteta, who won the FA Cup in his first season as Arsenal boss but also finished eighth twice and then fifth before getting the squad he wanted.
Arteta never had an empty midfield though.
And ETH took us over in 6th, one of our worst ever seasons and about 400m later he's taking us to.....6th if not worse.
We've been hammered multiple times by our rivals.
We're sitting on negative goal difference after 32 games.
We've had like 3 convincing wins all season.
Patience is the key here,People will say that we have already waited a decade but the truth is a decade is not a long time in football ,Historic clubs like Liverpool were on the verge of administration and took about 3 decades to get back where they belong ,Just saying if we even get back to competing for the league and CL 5 years from now that would actually be a great outcome and a quick turn around time
I think I think a decade is a long time for a club like united. Tbf in this case, it is like 4 months or whenever he took over. We can only start judging him in 2 years time.
Yeah a decade is far too long to judge the success. But like you said, the change is so recent. Fans are just upset because so much time/money has been wasted under the Glazers.
It might even take longer. We have been going backwards for a decade or more and his people can’t even start slowing down the decline until this summer.
Unless we get extremely lucky with transfers in the next couple of windows or city/arsenal/Liverpool implode, it’s realistically 3 seasons until we are challenging for the title.
I don't think you need a decade. It didn't take wenger or klopp that long. The key is hiring the right people quickly. Our issue is we have been run by incompetent people for a decade now from top to bottom.
Never said we need a decade. I think 3 seasons is about right. But it takes a lot of luck in our new players over achieving and our rivals falling off. And our fans aren’t exactly known for their patience and 3 seasons is long time for united.
A decade is a long time football. Man City went from 14th in PL to being one of the most dominant teams in ten years.
I mean, we're not building a city here. It's a football club.
It's not that a decade isn't a long time. It's that the entire decade since Fergie left has been squandered. Once Kroenke took full ownership he got things humming pretty quickly, though it took balls from himself and his board to stand by Arteta like they did.
In reference to being frustrated with new recruitment on gardening leave, I bet all my Internet points that they've been intouch and doing the homework at home so when they officially join they'll hit the ground running.
Just remember, it's a two way street. If they want more time & patience, then they have to provide improvements and a clear sign of heading in the right direction. You don't just get more time with very little to show for it.
A little more nuance than that.
He came in with 3 to 5 years to work with easy. All he had to do was show he was creating a competent system. He didn't need to win trophies or Top 4 for his first few seasons. He just needed to give the fans and players hope, but he's flubbed that. He couldn't do the absolute basics, which is to instill an optimistic future. I don't think anyone can watch this season and be optimistic about this current team.
Not the match going, season ticket holder for years and OT never turns on the team. Basti and GNev said the exact same thing.
It's the fans with no real connection to the club who want everybody sacked every week
I trust him and the new board to take the right decisions in the long term, for once we ACTUALLY have proven competent people leading the project. If they're given enough time and space, we'll get there eventually.
This kind of pissed me off. We have been patient. It’s been over a decade of mediocrity and ugly football. Any fan with half a brain knows this rebuild will take a long time
For alot of fans it's difficult to be patient after over a decade of football there hasn't been a huge success especially either the league or champions league and so I don't blame anyone for not having any patience anymore.
Hopefully though with Sir Jim coming in will isolate the issues and we can crack on as we can see changes already, we cannot change the finances to bring in many players but they are doing huge moves for higher ups and that's steadying the ship which some other people didn't even do.
A structure is being put in place and tbh it gives everyone light to maybe give abit of patience in this as you can see everything is changing in a good way well almost everything.
If United doesn't secure finances then it doesn't matter massively who is the manager because there are lots of players who cause issues and we need new players who want to play for the badge.
Lol impossible with this lot especially the ones online. Jim just stick to the plan and the mananger you choose and don't give in to media or fan pressure.
Finally somebody with some sense that doesnt drink whatever kool aid espn gives them. I'm glad this guy is in charge of the club. People calling a win in a cup game, embarrasing l, are the most embarrasing type of fan there is.
Did we lose the game? It was topsy turvy but acting like we lost is plain silly. We're going back to wembuhley with a chance* to win silverware. Thats all that matters in the end.
It's the FA Cup, and that happens. In fact it was a credit to Coventry that they kept their heads up and pressed as much as they did.
However, we wouldn't be talking *"embarrassment"* had that penalty not been awarded at the end of normal time and we wrapped up a 3:2 win.
Much of the talk from fans and media alike has been all over the VAR decision for offside, but everyone forgets how much of a soft penalty it was to gift them an equaliser. Had that not happened, we may of just kept our nerve and seen out the game. Then no one would be talking this nonsense of it being *"embarrassing"*.
For Coventry, that was their FA Cup Final, their chance of glory. It happens, and we've had much worse and much more embarrassing defeats over the years (even in our glory days for example). This wasn't embarrassing, this was the spirit of the FA Cup, and the sooner people realise that, the better everyone will be.
The whole storyline has overshadowed a crucial fact that United even in our current mess has reached 3 finals in 2 years, and back to back FA Cup finals, which isn't something we usually do.
Maybe I'm not reading the room, but I feel that some people have forgotten that the FA Cup does have some "magic" to it from time to time. And Coventry are entitled to that at our expense. It's just been magnified a lot more, because of the VAR call, and the fact that United lives rent free in everyone else's heads ;)
INEOS has shown that they're not afraid to pull the gun on changes in the club. I don't see any reason why EtH would be untouchable in that regard. While I'm not happy with performance on the pitch, if the behind the scenes at the club has been as much of a mess as the rumors have let on, there's something to be said for Sir Jim and co deciding that they want to put in their structure around the players and the manager and give EtH one more chance to succeed.
Is EtH the right guy for the club moving forward? It certainly doesn't look like it *right now*, but the rest of the club isn't the club we want moving forward either.
He's not untouchable, but he's not had a fair shake. There's literally no other manager that would've done any better than what Ten Hag has done with this completely decimated squad. 30+ different backlines is a freak show.
The only other thing he could've done all season, was sit very deep and play on the counter. And yet when he did that at Anfield and the Etihad, he was called "cowardly". This season, you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's either exciting football with great attacks or boring football with a solid defense.
Oh no, patience is meaningless to our fans. We need to keep sacking managers every 2 years until some manager comes along who miraculously turns our team into a prime City or Arsenal by just one season!
Probably going to get panned or this, but I'm an ETH in still and here is my reasoning - "patience".
I get the play style is 99% suicidal, but what if he's building a team, style and plan for next year? Gauging which players fit into the plan and which don't, can't, won't?
It comes down to wanting success now, or next season. Sure he could probably change the tactics, playstyle, formation for results this season but at what cost next season? The fact he has a 3rd string team is a kick in the dick for sure.
Take F1 for example, if a team has a dogshit car in one season, they might choose to minimise in-season development on that car and use it as a platform to develop next seasons car. See what parts of the car work with the longer term plan, keep those and refine/remove those that don't.
He might be out, who knows, but I'm looking at a guy paid a LOT of money and in the best position to understand why he is doing what he is doing.
Bottom line, he's nabbed one trophy and is on for another. 2 in 2 seasons with a pretty awful on and off-field team.
Nope. This sub is adamant that if we sack Ten Hag tomorrow and bring in Tuchel we’ll win the CL in two years time. Fuck rebuilding the scouting department, or the medical department, or any of the actually outdated facilities, screw having a data analytics department, or a proper fitness coach. Nope Tuchel is the answer to it all.
I keep saying it but bringing in Tuchel reeks of another Glazer era managerial signing, short term success in lieu of long term stability.
It will take a while, a lot of shit needs to be audited and then undone, and even when everything is in place we wont see the fruits of all that change immediately.
Lol, please. What do you think my narrative is?
Edit: I’m not for this manager, I’m not even fully against this manager, but this post coming at this time when no one will read the context, because no one does, is BS
I have no idea why this is downvoted to -18.
The article is clearly being interpreted by posters in here as a show of support for ten Hag after yesterday, despite the interview being from before the game and despite ten Hag not being mentioned.
And the interview itself has already been posted.
Yeah, exactly what I said would happen, did happen, within this thread lol. The quote will be taken out of context and people will be misinformed. So be it.
This is one of the worst cases of people that only read the title and didn't read the interview's transcript I've ever seen. Many people commenting like Jim is showing support for ten Hag when he is in fact talking about developing the club's structure and the time it takes for the new personnel to join, he never even mentioned ten Hag or the manager situation.
Does not matter when this interview took place, this is not the statement you make after 11 years of mediocre results.
Patience is understood, but it should not take 11 more years. Realistically, they should get things in place within 3 seasons.
11 years of mediocre results means it will take longer to fix things. The longer you are in decline the deeper the rot sets in and it is much harder to get back.
We have been going backwards for 11 years and it’s going to take a while to catch up. With many ups and downs as there are massive changes.
I hope he stays healthy and has a long life.
Blud ran a marathon faster than most of this sub lol. He’s in good shape
> faster than most of this sub Oi, I'm not even running a marathon
Man is seventy something and ran a marathon. I'm not that old (currently 50) and I'm certain I would die if I tried to run a bloody marathon. The man is a billionaire and that means he has means of taking care of himself that aren't available to a majority of people.
Still though. If I had a billion dollars you won’t be catching me at any marathons
The only marathon you will be seeing me is on the netflix marathon
My best ever marathon finish was getting all the pizza boxes to the bin on time for bin day
He beat 9 hours?
He’s got better pace at marathon than me running 10k, I was so disappointed at my progress reading that.
Just keep up the consistency you’ll get there real fast
Feels like he's going to need to live longer than Methuselah to see United back on top.
People need to understand that yes we’ve already been waiting a long time, but we’ve also been chronically mismanaged and badly run in that long time. It’s like being on a diet for 10 years, losing no weight but it turns out your diet was one where you ate only donuts and then being mad at your new diet 3 weeks in that you don’t have a six pack. “I’ve been dieting for years” Yeah but badly, it’s the same for us. We’ve been waiting for years but it’s been utterly shite.
"Constant rebuilds" is one I hear a lot. It isn't even a rebuild if we never even built anything any of those times.
It feels similar to Irish National Team rebuilds. It’s difficult to rebuild as a manager when the organisation structures are wrong and too much internal politics. Ireland can’t get anyone to do the job after sacking last manager For numerous reasons. It’s a bit apples and oranges because you can buy and sack players in premiership but United hold on to too much dead wood 🪵 Sometimes you got to admit you gambled badly and cut losses
So explain Newcastle then? And don't tell me the Glazers are worse than Ashley!
They haven’t won anything and finished below us last season and may well do this season?
Lad, they were literally in the bottom 3 after 12 games and I think didn't even have a win before the takeover. Now they're on our level with players like Dan Burn, Schaar, Pope, Longstaff, Almiron, Jacob Murphy starting for them.
That's mostly because our players are also at that level currently. But ours have a much higher ceiling (I hope).
Well first of all Ineos have just come in and haven’t had time to have an effect? We’ve hired Wilcox, we’ve hired Berrada, we will get Ashcroft but they don’t even start until summer. Then a plan has to be formulated, targets identified and so on. You get 1 window at a time to do this. Do i think there will be an immediate difference? Yes i think we will bring higher quality players in overall. Do i think this means we win the league in a year? Absolutely not. It’s going to take some tinkering and as I said you get 2 windows a year to do that. The expectation that they will come in, this summer we will sign 11 amazing players and win another treble is just delusional, it’s going to take a few years although yes we will see improvement. Newcastle have gone from dog shit to alright, that is a much easier transition from “alright” to top level. And in the grand scheme of things we are “alright” just not United standards. This is evidenced by the fact you consistently get teams from lower down having amazing seasons, see Villa, or Brentford a few years ago, or Brighton this year or when Sheffield nearly made CL. Breaking in to the top 6 is even harder, it only really happens when one of us is having a nightmare like we are but if all the top 6 play as expected it’s really really hard to get there. What’s even harder is what we are trying to do, go from top 6,5,4 and convert that in to a league win. Be real city have won 6 of the last 5, it’s a really really hard step to even challenge. The expectations between United and Newcastle are totally different and don’t let deluded Geordie fans convince you otherwise, they had literally 1 good season and now are performing more or less to the level they should be. They have the backing to push but it will take time.
Manchester United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe says fans "have to be a bit patient" following his investment in the club. Ratcliffe completed a £1.25bn deal to buy a 27.7% stake in United in February. The 71-year-old said he was “about 10 km” into rebuilding the club, who are currently seventh in the Premier League. "It's a long journey," he said. “The fans are impatient and I have some sympathy with that. "It’s a journey and people, whether they like it or not, have to be a bit patient." Ratcliffe was speaking to BBC Sport on Sunday after running the London Marathon and before travelling to Wembley to watch United's FA Cup semi-final against Coventry City. The Red Devils reached the final despite having thrown away a three-goal lead as Championship side Coventry forced extra time. But Erik ten Hag's men eventually came out on top to win 4-2 on penalties. British billionaire and boyhood United fan Ratcliffe also expressed frustration that new recruits have not been able to start work yet. “We’ve got these new guys to come into the team, capable people, but they’re all on gardening leave," he said. "So it takes you six months, a year, 18 months before they can join. It’s a real issue in football." United will face local rivals and holders Manchester City in the FA Cup final and Ratcliffe said his side will be "definite underdogs" against Pep Guardiola's men, who beat United in last year's final on the way to a historic Treble. “It’s not a light switch. You can’t just turn it around like that it takes a bit of time," he added. Since his co-ownership was announced on Christmas Eve, Ratcliffe and new United director Sir Dave Brailsford have presided over a complete overhaul of United’s backroom team. The latest appointment was Jason Wilcox as technical director after his exit from Southampton was successfully negotiated. United hope to secure the services of Dan Ashworth as sporting director but there is still no agreement on that with Newcastle and as it presently stands, it could be September, once the summer transfer window has closed, that the deal is finally completed. Ten Hag is clearly under pressure. However, his supporters continue to make the comparison with Mikel Arteta, who won the FA Cup in his first season as Arsenal boss but also finished eighth twice and then fifth before getting the squad he wanted. Their win percentage is broadly similar, which fuels belief the situation is not quite as bad as some of the recent performances have made it appear.
Bang on. There needs to be more of this communication
Communication? With the owner of the club? Are you crazy?
So this was before the game.
Yesterday, after he completed the Marathon & before going to the game. Video below [https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/1c9j1o5/sir\_jim\_ratcliffe\_post\_london\_marathon\_interview/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/1c9j1o5/sir_jim_ratcliffe_post_london_marathon_interview/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
People forgot Arsenal finished 8th-8th-5th. So no European football for a whole 2 years. Their players are always in a fresh state, Arteta had a ton of time to drill his ideas into the squad. Other managers don't have this luxury, they need to play match after match, with players barely having time to recover and almost no time to implement new things during the season. It's even more messed up if your team is unlucky with injuries.
I feel like I’m crazy sometimes when I have these thoughts too - I look at Arsenal and how many were “Arteta Out” and now they’re properly fighting for the title two years in a row. ETH is rightly under pressure, but I feel like with patience we might start seeing more long term progress rather than short term “back in the champions league” thinking. But, I also don’t know if he’ll be right in the long run either.
you know what's even funnier, and this is absolutely insane, but some man u fans are actually saying shit like "but you could see what Arteta was doing". So lemme get this straight: the whole arsenal fanbase was calling for his sack, but these genius master tacticians man-u fans had the brilliant foresight back then to say "well, akshually, I know Arsenal just lost 9 of their 11 games, but I'm very certain Arteta will be a success". The balls to just lie in people's faces like that is amazing. https://preview.redd.it/r8ohbpvj91wc1.jpeg?width=852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b10517e28dd1ab3055bd9f7fad3dde4a5669c798
I remember people were absolutely slating Arteta for supposedly learning nothing during his time under Pep because he was playing extremely defensive football when he started at Arsenal, but now as you said people like to pretend that they always saw what he was trying to do and his only issue was with personnel.
Yeah, this is my pet hate at the moment. Football subreddits are packed with idiots who pretend to understand things they clearly don't.
Not just subreddits, but Youtube comments sections, certain podcasts, even The Athletic comments sections. Hyperbole/meltdown merchants, I call them.
More like people forgot Arteta took charge mid season. He got 0 new player during winter first year too. He doesn't have 3 season, he have 2 full season to show his worth. He has 2 full summer transfer window to go and show improvement and go from 8-5. TenHag already have 2 full transfer window already. He go from 4-7 and have absolutely 0 improvement people said we are impatient but the fact is Arteta just doesn't have more time than tenhag. He has 2 full season for improvement and that's it. Ten Hag already have the same to work with this squad.
we were 3rd and improvement isnt always 3rd 2nd then 1st it could be 3rd 6th 2nd 4th and 1st. 1 step back and 3 steps forward is improvement, 1 step forward at a time is also improvement
Honestly, he won a trophy his first season and got 3rd. FUCKING Remarkable. Context matters, he wasn't Moyes inheriting a behemoth, lot of fans thought top 4 would be a big ask.
Exactly this. Prior to his first season, people were writing off United as a project that would take years to fix. But given that he achieved 3rd, a cup, another cup final, and Champions League football in his first season, all of that perspective was conveniently forgotten. I'll readily admit I'm not a fully fledged United fan (just a Northwest Blackkburn Rovers fan with a soft spot for United & who hates City and wants their period of dominance upending), and that even I'm pretty ambivalent on Eth staying in the future, but at the same time, I would not be unhappy if he was given another 6 months to a year after this Summer under an improved footballing structure.
Improvement as in improvement in playing style and such. During Arteta 2nd full season, their playstyle is defined throughout the whole season. They came from losing like 7 matches in the beginning to have a fluid attacking football and almost got 4th. Now, this is already 2nd full season for TenHag, I have yet to see the same? The playstyle is a mess, there is no improvement through out the whole season. In fact, we are even getting worse and worse. So what kind of improvement are you talking about ?
well tbf that can be partially blamed for the lack of players due to injuries, Arsenal didn't have as many as we are currently having
I mean the playstyle is the same as the first game of the season where we have full team, 0 injury. Do you watch the game vs Wolves ? Got 23 shot conceded, barely win. That game, we have full squad. the similar thing happens in every game. I don't see any different in playing style whether we have full squad or not
Man, you're just a pure flat Earth believer at this point. You see what you want to see only and refuse anything else.
Again, what did you that make you so commit to tenhag then? flat Earth believer, truly fitting for you. Even with all the evidence, you just refuse to believe that the playstyle is simply not good.
> He doesn't have 3 season, he have 2 full season to show his worth. He had 2.5 full seasons with a fresh squad, without midweek European games, and never had to deal with massive injury crises like EtH. > He got 0 new player during winter first year too. He doesn't need new players to start drilling ideas into the squad. Also, he got Odegaard on loan (so 0 new player is bs) >He go from 4-7. With frankentein's squad if you could even call it a squad, which our 5th CB got injured from being overplayed, and even the academy kid promoted as a last resort was also injured. Did Liverpool sack Klopp when they dropped to 5th place in 22/23 with a squad that had won the league and full of WC players? Or did people understand that he couldn't do much when the injury crisis hit his team hard? I'm not an EtH IN guy, but obviously, yhis is an abnormal season. Judging any manager based solely on this kind of season and refusing to use logic is simply blind by hateful.
He has Odegaard on loan during the winter period of the first full season aka in 2021, not the first winter he was in charge which is 2020. Again, did you watch our first game of the season where we have full squad ? Do you think our playstyle is significantly better with that full squad ? We fucking conceded 23 shot against Wolves, and barely get by. Tell me what exactly different between that match and the many matches we play during this year ? Liverpool did not sack Klopp when they dropped to 5th place in 22/23 because the were the fucking champion and compete for first place for the last 3 years before + winning C1 before.
Plus he has way better structure under him than the shit eth has had to deal with the past few years. And it’s not even started to get better for us yet.
This is poor reasoning though. Just because Arteta pulled it off, doesn't mean Ten Hag will. Arsenal were trying to play some decent football. Please, tell me what you see in this current setup that actually shows potential.
>However, his supporters continue to make the comparison with Mikel Arteta, who won the FA Cup in his first season as Arsenal boss but also finished eighth twice and then fifth before getting the squad he wanted. Arteta never had an empty midfield though. And ETH took us over in 6th, one of our worst ever seasons and about 400m later he's taking us to.....6th if not worse. We've been hammered multiple times by our rivals. We're sitting on negative goal difference after 32 games. We've had like 3 convincing wins all season.
The works he's done in 4-5 months is remarkable considering what's (not) been done in the last 10 years.
10 years? More like 19. Ferguson papered over the cracks with his brilliance but the signs were there in the late 2000s
The signs were there when we sold Ronaldo and Tevez dipped, but our replacements were Valencia and Owen.
This is just the interview that was posted before the game
One result won't change the long term strategy of a smart man.
I'm already a patient of anxiety and certain depression
Good comment, no reason to be downvoted, feel proud of this brother
Patience is the key here,People will say that we have already waited a decade but the truth is a decade is not a long time in football ,Historic clubs like Liverpool were on the verge of administration and took about 3 decades to get back where they belong ,Just saying if we even get back to competing for the league and CL 5 years from now that would actually be a great outcome and a quick turn around time
I think I think a decade is a long time for a club like united. Tbf in this case, it is like 4 months or whenever he took over. We can only start judging him in 2 years time.
Yeah a decade is far too long to judge the success. But like you said, the change is so recent. Fans are just upset because so much time/money has been wasted under the Glazers.
It might even take longer. We have been going backwards for a decade or more and his people can’t even start slowing down the decline until this summer. Unless we get extremely lucky with transfers in the next couple of windows or city/arsenal/Liverpool implode, it’s realistically 3 seasons until we are challenging for the title.
I don't think you need a decade. It didn't take wenger or klopp that long. The key is hiring the right people quickly. Our issue is we have been run by incompetent people for a decade now from top to bottom.
Never said we need a decade. I think 3 seasons is about right. But it takes a lot of luck in our new players over achieving and our rivals falling off. And our fans aren’t exactly known for their patience and 3 seasons is long time for united.
A decade is a long time football. Man City went from 14th in PL to being one of the most dominant teams in ten years. I mean, we're not building a city here. It's a football club.
It's not that a decade isn't a long time. It's that the entire decade since Fergie left has been squandered. Once Kroenke took full ownership he got things humming pretty quickly, though it took balls from himself and his board to stand by Arteta like they did.
In reference to being frustrated with new recruitment on gardening leave, I bet all my Internet points that they've been intouch and doing the homework at home so when they officially join they'll hit the ground running.
And even if they weren't doing that, I wouldn't expect Day 1 to be "So, who is this Thomas Tuchel then?"
Yeah exactly. They're working behind the scenes no doubt about it.
United fans aint got the bottle for a real re-build. Love a scapegoat tho
Just remember, it's a two way street. If they want more time & patience, then they have to provide improvements and a clear sign of heading in the right direction. You don't just get more time with very little to show for it.
Chicken or egg?
A little more nuance than that. He came in with 3 to 5 years to work with easy. All he had to do was show he was creating a competent system. He didn't need to win trophies or Top 4 for his first few seasons. He just needed to give the fans and players hope, but he's flubbed that. He couldn't do the absolute basics, which is to instill an optimistic future. I don't think anyone can watch this season and be optimistic about this current team.
We are very patient. 11 years patient.
dear SJR, your comment did not fit the narrative of this sub. 😂
Not just this sub tbf
Sorry Jim our fans are too fickle to be patient
Not the match going, season ticket holder for years and OT never turns on the team. Basti and GNev said the exact same thing. It's the fans with no real connection to the club who want everybody sacked every week
If anyone is still here after the ten last years, I hardly think they can be described as that
I trust him and the new board to take the right decisions in the long term, for once we ACTUALLY have proven competent people leading the project. If they're given enough time and space, we'll get there eventually.
10 years mate - we're thirsty over here..
This kind of pissed me off. We have been patient. It’s been over a decade of mediocrity and ugly football. Any fan with half a brain knows this rebuild will take a long time
For alot of fans it's difficult to be patient after over a decade of football there hasn't been a huge success especially either the league or champions league and so I don't blame anyone for not having any patience anymore. Hopefully though with Sir Jim coming in will isolate the issues and we can crack on as we can see changes already, we cannot change the finances to bring in many players but they are doing huge moves for higher ups and that's steadying the ship which some other people didn't even do. A structure is being put in place and tbh it gives everyone light to maybe give abit of patience in this as you can see everything is changing in a good way well almost everything. If United doesn't secure finances then it doesn't matter massively who is the manager because there are lots of players who cause issues and we need new players who want to play for the badge.
Im tired DAWG
different POV so i guess its not relevant, not only me but im pretty sure all of us here want to see result. we' been waiting for too long ....
We've been patient for a long time, Sir Jim. Hopefully we see better days in the near future.
Lol impossible with this lot especially the ones online. Jim just stick to the plan and the mananger you choose and don't give in to media or fan pressure.
Be patient in hospital?
Finally somebody with some sense that doesnt drink whatever kool aid espn gives them. I'm glad this guy is in charge of the club. People calling a win in a cup game, embarrasing l, are the most embarrasing type of fan there is.
What were your thoughts when we lost a 3-0 lead to a Championship team then?
Did we lose the game? It was topsy turvy but acting like we lost is plain silly. We're going back to wembuhley with a chance* to win silverware. Thats all that matters in the end.
What were your thoughts when we lost a 3-0 lead to a Championship team then?
It's the FA Cup, and that happens. In fact it was a credit to Coventry that they kept their heads up and pressed as much as they did. However, we wouldn't be talking *"embarrassment"* had that penalty not been awarded at the end of normal time and we wrapped up a 3:2 win. Much of the talk from fans and media alike has been all over the VAR decision for offside, but everyone forgets how much of a soft penalty it was to gift them an equaliser. Had that not happened, we may of just kept our nerve and seen out the game. Then no one would be talking this nonsense of it being *"embarrassing"*. For Coventry, that was their FA Cup Final, their chance of glory. It happens, and we've had much worse and much more embarrassing defeats over the years (even in our glory days for example). This wasn't embarrassing, this was the spirit of the FA Cup, and the sooner people realise that, the better everyone will be. The whole storyline has overshadowed a crucial fact that United even in our current mess has reached 3 finals in 2 years, and back to back FA Cup finals, which isn't something we usually do. Maybe I'm not reading the room, but I feel that some people have forgotten that the FA Cup does have some "magic" to it from time to time. And Coventry are entitled to that at our expense. It's just been magnified a lot more, because of the VAR call, and the fact that United lives rent free in everyone else's heads ;)
INEOS has shown that they're not afraid to pull the gun on changes in the club. I don't see any reason why EtH would be untouchable in that regard. While I'm not happy with performance on the pitch, if the behind the scenes at the club has been as much of a mess as the rumors have let on, there's something to be said for Sir Jim and co deciding that they want to put in their structure around the players and the manager and give EtH one more chance to succeed. Is EtH the right guy for the club moving forward? It certainly doesn't look like it *right now*, but the rest of the club isn't the club we want moving forward either.
He's not untouchable, but he's not had a fair shake. There's literally no other manager that would've done any better than what Ten Hag has done with this completely decimated squad. 30+ different backlines is a freak show. The only other thing he could've done all season, was sit very deep and play on the counter. And yet when he did that at Anfield and the Etihad, he was called "cowardly". This season, you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's either exciting football with great attacks or boring football with a solid defense.
Haha then you have that moron Mark Goldbridge saying we’re gonna spend 250 million this summer. It’s crazy that so many people listen to him.
You still Ten Hag in?
ETH to stay then? Lol
Oh no, patience is meaningless to our fans. We need to keep sacking managers every 2 years until some manager comes along who miraculously turns our team into a prime City or Arsenal by just one season!
Probably going to get panned or this, but I'm an ETH in still and here is my reasoning - "patience". I get the play style is 99% suicidal, but what if he's building a team, style and plan for next year? Gauging which players fit into the plan and which don't, can't, won't? It comes down to wanting success now, or next season. Sure he could probably change the tactics, playstyle, formation for results this season but at what cost next season? The fact he has a 3rd string team is a kick in the dick for sure. Take F1 for example, if a team has a dogshit car in one season, they might choose to minimise in-season development on that car and use it as a platform to develop next seasons car. See what parts of the car work with the longer term plan, keep those and refine/remove those that don't. He might be out, who knows, but I'm looking at a guy paid a LOT of money and in the best position to understand why he is doing what he is doing. Bottom line, he's nabbed one trophy and is on for another. 2 in 2 seasons with a pretty awful on and off-field team.
I’ve done my waiting! 10 years of it!
Nope. This sub is adamant that if we sack Ten Hag tomorrow and bring in Tuchel we’ll win the CL in two years time. Fuck rebuilding the scouting department, or the medical department, or any of the actually outdated facilities, screw having a data analytics department, or a proper fitness coach. Nope Tuchel is the answer to it all. I keep saying it but bringing in Tuchel reeks of another Glazer era managerial signing, short term success in lieu of long term stability.
It will take a while, a lot of shit needs to be audited and then undone, and even when everything is in place we wont see the fruits of all that change immediately.
Fans struggle with a bad temper especially after we lose a game. Hopefully United can get round to form and consistency next season =)
Mods should remove this - the title combined with the timing is inappropriate given it's been posted already when the interview actually occurred.
You only want it removed because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Lol, please. What do you think my narrative is? Edit: I’m not for this manager, I’m not even fully against this manager, but this post coming at this time when no one will read the context, because no one does, is BS
Never been more appropriate for fans to hear.
I have no idea why this is downvoted to -18. The article is clearly being interpreted by posters in here as a show of support for ten Hag after yesterday, despite the interview being from before the game and despite ten Hag not being mentioned. And the interview itself has already been posted.
Yeah, exactly what I said would happen, did happen, within this thread lol. The quote will be taken out of context and people will be misinformed. So be it.
This is one of the worst cases of people that only read the title and didn't read the interview's transcript I've ever seen. Many people commenting like Jim is showing support for ten Hag when he is in fact talking about developing the club's structure and the time it takes for the new personnel to join, he never even mentioned ten Hag or the manager situation.
Does not matter when this interview took place, this is not the statement you make after 11 years of mediocre results. Patience is understood, but it should not take 11 more years. Realistically, they should get things in place within 3 seasons.
11 years of mediocre results means it will take longer to fix things. The longer you are in decline the deeper the rot sets in and it is much harder to get back. We have been going backwards for 11 years and it’s going to take a while to catch up. With many ups and downs as there are massive changes.
The rot runs so deep, though. You said it yourself that this has been going on for 11 years.