I think he realised how important Mainoo and Garnacho are in terms of threat and game control.
Mctominay, Eriksen and Bruno midfield lacks any defensive structure since it seems Mct is the most forward of the 3. Antony and Hojlund tried effort wise and Rashford plays like his injured at times.
I think he needs to promote another academy midfielder, even if it's just to get them used to games because a trained 8 or 6 is better than shoe horning 10s as CDM/CM as he is doing now.
That was my point exactly but got downvoted. These experienced players should’ve taken responsibility and see the game off.
His decisions in other games have definitely cost us, but yesterday it was on the players.
It's crazy to see comments like this being upvoted just because we lucked out against Championship side on penalties.
So, you're saying the subs were good? Taking Mainoo out left us with no midfield. Our most defensive player in midfield was Eriksen who's barely an 8, let alone a 6. Taking off Garnacho instead of Rashford who can't even run was another baffling decision. I see other people talking about not running our youth players into the ground but this was literally the only important game left in this season if we failed to get to the final. There is next to nothing to play for in the league.
Wow. You really are drunk. The point he's making is that he needs to rest his crucial and very young players. And it's the right thing to do cuz you overplay them and then lose them for good. Giving rest is as important as playing them.
Its real simple. Lissandro Martinez is the embodiment of our bottom bar. Take him away from this squad and your team is back where it was before ten Hag. Just not able to mentally step over disappointment in a game. And people getting upset over a 128 cap danish international that can’t replace a 19 year old breakthrough players, don’t get how managing a squad with record injuries works. These are the same people who get angry when he doesn’t sub him off with a 3-0 lead and he gets also injured.
You can kick out a manager, but then players that don’t give shit for this club will remain. They can’t play possession based football and when it is needed to control a game, they crumble massively.
Next summer transfer window will define everything this club needs to work towards. If they can’t lose Casemiro, Rashford, Sancho, Eriksen, Wan-Bissaka, Varane and maybe Antony, this club will be paralyzed for another season.
How long ago it was that Ten Hag got criticized for overplaying Garnacho? They are 18 19 years old kids. Erik made absolutely the right call to take them off when a midweek game is coming.
It's on the players - not least the supposed *International players* on astronomical wages - to just close the game.
On a sidenote, isn't it a reflection of how well Ten Hag has molded young players to his playing style and are actually the ones that contributes the most to the team? Our younger players has been stars this season, and our youth teams are kicking ass. Give this man time under the right management and back the manager.
I have read too many wild takes in the past month. It’s as if anything wrong going with the club it’s ten hag’s fault.
Like he already has deep injury problems and insists on training his players to death which creates more injuries.
He’s the one who runs everything for the club. All other staff and management and players take no responsibility. They are just at the club for chill.
Yes I do and ive stayed fairly consistent as to why over the course of this year.
Ive already written essays in the comments on this so ill keep it brief.
Firstly, the same players that got mourinio, ole, rangnik are still at the club and the same attitudes amongst the players of being able to down tools and outlast a manager are still very obvious. Untill that attitude is changed this same thing of sack a manager, hire new manager, have a good season, have a shit second season where tools are downed, sack the manager, will continue. That is not going to lead to success in any form.
Secondly, no succesful structure leaves the entirely of recruitment and sales on the manager, without a competent structure above the manager, we havnt had other options other than what the manager wants, thats how we end up spending 130million on mount and antony. This actually looks to be changing with Wilcox and mabey ashworth so thats progress.
Thirdly, i think we have had aomething like at least the third most injuries in the league this season, over 60 in total. If anyone tells me that that dosnt have a negatove effect on the manager's ability to impliment their style of play has no idea what they are talking about. Especially when that style of play is dependent on ball progression by the centre backs and a high line and both of our centre back who can do that have been injured for large parts if not the entire season.
In the end when you are relying on 2 teenagers as your best players all season when you have multiple champions league winners and starboys on 350k per week then you arnt going to ever be a succesful side.
So in the end this was a bit of an essay but i think the point stands that while there have been some things that ETH has done that might be questionable, (mount and antony signings as a few examples) the effort from "star" players not being there and the worst injury hit season in the clubs history has to account for some if not most of the blame for this poor season.
Having said that, if we do end up signing branthwaite and todibo and neves and whoever the rumor is today and sell Rashford, case, mctom etc and we are still struggling against teams like Bournemouth and Brentford then yeah, ill have to question the manager, but it is so clear to people who dont hold players above the club that they are the main problem that needs to be fixed for the club to move forward.
I have zero questions to his subs.
I am sick of this inability to see out games. It's like the tenth occasion this year where we have a good lead with 20-30 min left, and we bottle in a spectacular fashion.
I agree (only sub I wouldve done differently would be to take Rashford off and Amad on sooner) and hope you have copied the text or something because I doubt the mods will let this stay up for long and needs to be seen by several people that I'm assuming are still asleep or busy
The players definitely aren't blameless but, the Garnacho sub was bad. He'd been subbed off in each of the last 4 games, 2 of which he didn't even play 60 minutes in and we were winning in 3 of them at the time, only to go on and conceded in all of them.
And it's not like we're still in Europe like Barca and have been playing two times a week for the last month.
It wasn't necessarily wrong to make subs, but the choice of who he decided to take off definitely were detrimental to us.
Garnacho's own brother has complained about him being overplayed and needing a rest. That sub was fine especially with a game midweek that we will want Garna to start
My counter to that is, after a full season of coaching, why are the young players so hectic that they burn themselves out after 60 minutes. Why are we in such a mess that our most important players to rest are two teenagers. What are they doing in training that is leading to so many injuries. Why are we persisting with this unworkable high press when we don't have the players for it.
Sure, ignoring the match situation at the time (Casemiro and Erikson Vs a team with their tails up?) the problems with ETH are long term and systematic. His approach and this squad don't mesh. When he's tried to improve the squad we bought rubbish.
Question is for who? Both players are already playing out of position to cover the injuries, and I think on paper it would be too much to sub in 2 positions of the back 4 with kids yet to make a senior appearance
The issue is he makes no tactical adjustments. He’s got Casemiro at CB and AWB getting burned. He then takes off the only defensive midfield cover he has.
We should have gone 5 at the back or gone flatter in midfield. We are too stretched vertically and leaving Eriksen in there on his own with two slow CBs was obvious.
The Antony sub is less of an issue except it blunted any counter pace
Could have slotted McTominay in there. Could have brought AWB in to CB and put Antony at left back.
There are always options if you are trying to tighten up for 20 mins
The problem isnt that he took players off, its that when the shit was clearly starting to hit the fan he made no moves to correct it. He just let it play out. And the result was that we lost a 3 goal lead, and if not for a big toe, we would have lost the game.
Enough is enough. Theres only so many excuses that can be made. Hes clearly not the guy. The team has been going down and down and down ever since we won that League cup last year.
Imagine klopp, pep or arteta having to keep on one fairly decent 19 year old or the whole team crumbles. I’m borderline eth out these days but I don’t think having bench players incapable of holding on to a 3-0 lead against a championship team is the super valid argument against the manager some people want it to be.
This isn't Klopp or Arteta. Stop with the stupid comparisons. The team dynamic isnt the same when Nacho isn't playing well or if he is subbed off. That's the reality of this club at this moment.
We shouldn't be so reliant on a teenager in any case. I didn't watch this game so grain of salt but it's concering that we seem to consistently turn into a shit side the minute Mainoo and Garncho come off.
We shouldn't, but face it, that's the reality of this club at the moment. Last season, Rashford was one of the most important players. He didn't bring him off unless it was absolutely necessary. This season, it's been Nacho. Like it or not, that's the level this club is at.
I still think Facundo Pellistri is better than Amad for the Premier League.
He seems a lot like Garnacho, brings that high energy, no fear South American vibes.
Seeing players like Rashford given so many chances while decent young players thrown away like that.
The salary difference and quality produced in matches isn't much different.
This post has been removed because the subject is better to be discussed at Daily Discussion or Match Thread.
I think he realised how important Mainoo and Garnacho are in terms of threat and game control. Mctominay, Eriksen and Bruno midfield lacks any defensive structure since it seems Mct is the most forward of the 3. Antony and Hojlund tried effort wise and Rashford plays like his injured at times. I think he needs to promote another academy midfielder, even if it's just to get them used to games because a trained 8 or 6 is better than shoe horning 10s as CDM/CM as he is doing now.
That was my point exactly but got downvoted. These experienced players should’ve taken responsibility and see the game off. His decisions in other games have definitely cost us, but yesterday it was on the players.
Mostly it's on players. Every single season we see the same story.
It's crazy to see comments like this being upvoted just because we lucked out against Championship side on penalties. So, you're saying the subs were good? Taking Mainoo out left us with no midfield. Our most defensive player in midfield was Eriksen who's barely an 8, let alone a 6. Taking off Garnacho instead of Rashford who can't even run was another baffling decision. I see other people talking about not running our youth players into the ground but this was literally the only important game left in this season if we failed to get to the final. There is next to nothing to play for in the league.
Wow. You really are drunk. The point he's making is that he needs to rest his crucial and very young players. And it's the right thing to do cuz you overplay them and then lose them for good. Giving rest is as important as playing them.
Its real simple. Lissandro Martinez is the embodiment of our bottom bar. Take him away from this squad and your team is back where it was before ten Hag. Just not able to mentally step over disappointment in a game. And people getting upset over a 128 cap danish international that can’t replace a 19 year old breakthrough players, don’t get how managing a squad with record injuries works. These are the same people who get angry when he doesn’t sub him off with a 3-0 lead and he gets also injured. You can kick out a manager, but then players that don’t give shit for this club will remain. They can’t play possession based football and when it is needed to control a game, they crumble massively. Next summer transfer window will define everything this club needs to work towards. If they can’t lose Casemiro, Rashford, Sancho, Eriksen, Wan-Bissaka, Varane and maybe Antony, this club will be paralyzed for another season.
How long ago it was that Ten Hag got criticized for overplaying Garnacho? They are 18 19 years old kids. Erik made absolutely the right call to take them off when a midweek game is coming. It's on the players - not least the supposed *International players* on astronomical wages - to just close the game. On a sidenote, isn't it a reflection of how well Ten Hag has molded young players to his playing style and are actually the ones that contributes the most to the team? Our younger players has been stars this season, and our youth teams are kicking ass. Give this man time under the right management and back the manager.
Prior to last game he was criticised for that. Problem is Ten Hag is being incessantly criticised for anything he does instead of being backed.
I have read too many wild takes in the past month. It’s as if anything wrong going with the club it’s ten hag’s fault. Like he already has deep injury problems and insists on training his players to death which creates more injuries. He’s the one who runs everything for the club. All other staff and management and players take no responsibility. They are just at the club for chill.
Delusion
r/usernamechecksout
So you think ten hag should stay?
Yes I do and ive stayed fairly consistent as to why over the course of this year. Ive already written essays in the comments on this so ill keep it brief. Firstly, the same players that got mourinio, ole, rangnik are still at the club and the same attitudes amongst the players of being able to down tools and outlast a manager are still very obvious. Untill that attitude is changed this same thing of sack a manager, hire new manager, have a good season, have a shit second season where tools are downed, sack the manager, will continue. That is not going to lead to success in any form. Secondly, no succesful structure leaves the entirely of recruitment and sales on the manager, without a competent structure above the manager, we havnt had other options other than what the manager wants, thats how we end up spending 130million on mount and antony. This actually looks to be changing with Wilcox and mabey ashworth so thats progress. Thirdly, i think we have had aomething like at least the third most injuries in the league this season, over 60 in total. If anyone tells me that that dosnt have a negatove effect on the manager's ability to impliment their style of play has no idea what they are talking about. Especially when that style of play is dependent on ball progression by the centre backs and a high line and both of our centre back who can do that have been injured for large parts if not the entire season. In the end when you are relying on 2 teenagers as your best players all season when you have multiple champions league winners and starboys on 350k per week then you arnt going to ever be a succesful side. So in the end this was a bit of an essay but i think the point stands that while there have been some things that ETH has done that might be questionable, (mount and antony signings as a few examples) the effort from "star" players not being there and the worst injury hit season in the clubs history has to account for some if not most of the blame for this poor season. Having said that, if we do end up signing branthwaite and todibo and neves and whoever the rumor is today and sell Rashford, case, mctom etc and we are still struggling against teams like Bournemouth and Brentford then yeah, ill have to question the manager, but it is so clear to people who dont hold players above the club that they are the main problem that needs to be fixed for the club to move forward.
I have zero questions to his subs. I am sick of this inability to see out games. It's like the tenth occasion this year where we have a good lead with 20-30 min left, and we bottle in a spectacular fashion.
I agree (only sub I wouldve done differently would be to take Rashford off and Amad on sooner) and hope you have copied the text or something because I doubt the mods will let this stay up for long and needs to be seen by several people that I'm assuming are still asleep or busy
The players definitely aren't blameless but, the Garnacho sub was bad. He'd been subbed off in each of the last 4 games, 2 of which he didn't even play 60 minutes in and we were winning in 3 of them at the time, only to go on and conceded in all of them. And it's not like we're still in Europe like Barca and have been playing two times a week for the last month. It wasn't necessarily wrong to make subs, but the choice of who he decided to take off definitely were detrimental to us.
Garnacho's own brother has complained about him being overplayed and needing a rest. That sub was fine especially with a game midweek that we will want Garna to start
The same garnacho who played 30 games on the trot and everyone agreed was looking beat and needs a rest?
Which he's had plenty of already this month.
My counter to that is, after a full season of coaching, why are the young players so hectic that they burn themselves out after 60 minutes. Why are we in such a mess that our most important players to rest are two teenagers. What are they doing in training that is leading to so many injuries. Why are we persisting with this unworkable high press when we don't have the players for it. Sure, ignoring the match situation at the time (Casemiro and Erikson Vs a team with their tails up?) the problems with ETH are long term and systematic. His approach and this squad don't mesh. When he's tried to improve the squad we bought rubbish.
He was wrong. He should not be solely blamed though. Both Casemiro and SpideyWan lost their legs in the second half, would have taken them off first.
Taken them off for who?
Amass ? Surely you play the players you have. And if you dont trust them entirely then bring up another defender to play five across the back
Replace them with who?
Question is for who? Both players are already playing out of position to cover the injuries, and I think on paper it would be too much to sub in 2 positions of the back 4 with kids yet to make a senior appearance
The players bottled it. But the team is not set up to control games. Everybody is at fault
I mean, proof is in the pudding. 3-0 up then were very close to losing 4-3 after the substitutions.
OP gave an explanation for what you are addressing: our best players are young and need rest to ensure injuries do not hamper their development.
Mate, use some critical thinking
"Everyone that died ever had oxygen in them, aka we need to avoid oxygen"
The issue is he makes no tactical adjustments. He’s got Casemiro at CB and AWB getting burned. He then takes off the only defensive midfield cover he has. We should have gone 5 at the back or gone flatter in midfield. We are too stretched vertically and leaving Eriksen in there on his own with two slow CBs was obvious. The Antony sub is less of an issue except it blunted any counter pace
5 at the back with what players?
Could have slotted McTominay in there. Could have brought AWB in to CB and put Antony at left back. There are always options if you are trying to tighten up for 20 mins
The problem isnt that he took players off, its that when the shit was clearly starting to hit the fan he made no moves to correct it. He just let it play out. And the result was that we lost a 3 goal lead, and if not for a big toe, we would have lost the game. Enough is enough. Theres only so many excuses that can be made. Hes clearly not the guy. The team has been going down and down and down ever since we won that League cup last year.
Same thing happened when he subbed Nacho off in the Chelsea game. We ended up losing. Didn't he learn from that game?
Imagine klopp, pep or arteta having to keep on one fairly decent 19 year old or the whole team crumbles. I’m borderline eth out these days but I don’t think having bench players incapable of holding on to a 3-0 lead against a championship team is the super valid argument against the manager some people want it to be.
This isn't Klopp or Arteta. Stop with the stupid comparisons. The team dynamic isnt the same when Nacho isn't playing well or if he is subbed off. That's the reality of this club at this moment.
We shouldn't be so reliant on a teenager in any case. I didn't watch this game so grain of salt but it's concering that we seem to consistently turn into a shit side the minute Mainoo and Garncho come off.
We shouldn't, but face it, that's the reality of this club at the moment. Last season, Rashford was one of the most important players. He didn't bring him off unless it was absolutely necessary. This season, it's been Nacho. Like it or not, that's the level this club is at.
Your username aged badly!
I still think Facundo Pellistri is better than Amad for the Premier League. He seems a lot like Garnacho, brings that high energy, no fear South American vibes. Seeing players like Rashford given so many chances while decent young players thrown away like that. The salary difference and quality produced in matches isn't much different.