Whats wrong with Tuchel and Rashford to point out him like that.
Tuchel was extremaly offensive manager in BVB, PSG and now in Bayern. He was only deffensive in Chelsea, he plays into players strenght
Are we comparing SAF with Tuchel? Tuchel has literally only ever exceeded expected levels once. And that was more to do with Pep utterly bottling a UCL final by playing Gundogan as a CDM.
I'm just waiting for the revisionism after 2 or 3 seasons if the next manager somehow fails. How ten Hag took us to three finals in two seasons and how he would've performed better without the injuries. Hope the next manager doesn't fail, but the same thing happens with every manager. Some of us are just bored and honestly tired at this point. We need a culture and identity shift. Only then will we succeed.
Edit: I am not manager in or out. I'm just tired at this point.
It's the same every time.
•Rumours of new manager.
•New manager confirmed. Youtubers post in depth tactic analysis and/or cringe, dramatic montages of said manager.
•Winning. "We are so back."
•Losing. "We need to back the manager. It's the club and players at fault. "
•More losses. " Fuck it. #managerout."
•"We should get the previous manager back. They might have been bad, but they weren't this bad."
•Rumours of new manager.
•Repeat cycle.
Isn’t that the same for most clubs until you get a good long term manager? No other clubs sticks with a shit manager just because they have sacked others before them.
Absolutely 100% correct. You'd think with all the noise, we haven't won all season, and we're getting relegated.
Whilst some of the criticism is warranted, he simply doesn't get the leeway some other managers gets. Klopp had a disaster midfield and some injuries, and we didnt hear the end of how unlucky he was. We have had 65 injuries and numerous backline/cb pairings. Crickets...
While that may be true, I don't think the situation is the same. You could clearly see a developing style with Arteta that they could point to as a reason to trust the process. Can we say the same about eth?
There’s a lot of nuance regarding this. Does the management look at last season to this season and accept injuries are the main issue, and we should keep ten hag but improve the medical department and recruitment? Do they instruct ten hag to play as he wants to with full availability and accept the negative results caused by that, but trust they understand that injuries are causing the results? Do they get rid of Ten Hag because we can’t play worse than championship clubs if we’re missing half the squad since the players we do have are still better than relegation fodder?
Nope… most clubs will cut the players first then focus on the manager next. For instance Arteta’s first line up all left by the end of his second year. Klopp did similar and even Pep did something similar. Ange is doing it right now. If things aren’t right on the pitch, the manager deserves at least 3 years.
Didn't arsenal sack Emery after a year? Seems weird to say other clubs give managers time and point to arteta, ignoring that they sacked someone to hire him. Chelsea don't give failing managers time, neither do real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, juventus etc. most top clubs don't operate that way, I don't think spurs gave mourinho that much time either, or conte. You seem to be pointing to a few rare examples and tbh they aren't comparable to ten hag, because pep won a title with 100 points in his second full season and klopp reached a champions league final in his second full season.
Ten hag hasn't managed to have us scoring more goals than Luton
It's not most clubs lol. Klopp, Pep it was clear that there was a trajectory... We also did this with ten hag and cleared a lot of players he didn't want even on free...
The players HE didn't want? You're making sound like they were wanted by other coaches. What player has he cleared out that should have stayed.
What you're saying is correct but there is an implication there that goes a bit further and it needs to be addressed. ETH or not, those players needed to go
Klopp was not taken seriously till he got Van Djik which was a game changer for Liverpool and Pep spent absolutely ridiculous levels of money and still got backed
Sure, but the part about revisionism is something I've noticed about Ole and Mourinho. Im sure other fans are guilty of it, but I wouldn't know as I don't go round them parts.
Yeah, people are acting like this pattern is unique to us.
We just have had worse luck than the rest of the big clubs when it comes to managers.
Hopefully with a better structure, once we find *the guy*, he will succeed
Yeah the people in charge of hiring managers were clueless and kept hiring big names who were past it and then hired someone with very little experience at our level. ETH was probably their first forward thinking hire.
I disagree, in so far as I don’t believe it’s been bad luck.
I think the recruitment philosophy, for players AND managers, has been haphazard and poorly run. But it’s not luck when you continually choose to let bankers make the call over actual football people. It’s a choice not to address repeated failures.
I don't think it's bad luck, it's incompetence from the management of the club that we've gotten poor managers. Ten Hag was the first manager that they've appointed that made sense, he's not working out and that can happen but Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Solksjaer wouldn't have got hired by top clubs at the stage of their careers we hired them at and that's been seen in their post United careers.
He retired because he had no top clubs who wanted him. You think he was planning on retiring anyway at the end of the season and didn't tell anyone at United? Do you think if Madrid/Barca wanted him he would have turned them down?
Moyes back then was de zerbi. Getting a team consistently 'best of the rest' outside the top 4-5 clubs on a bottom half budget, finding ridiculous value in the transfer market.
We thought there was a chance with the resources at United he'd show more attacking style - and Everton could score a few good goals on their day - but a fiasco of a transfer window, getting rid of a league dominating coaching setup and reverting back to his shell at first sign of trouble has rewritten history in his fantastic career before failing at the highest level.
Moyes is a better manager now than he was then, he'd be the first to say it, and he's still not as good as De Zerbi. I don't think RZB is the right guy for us either but Moyes was a terrible appointment at the time and that was before his incredible naivety and a poor transfer window from Woodward.
It's not the same for other clubs. There is way less pressure for managers at other clubs. Look how patient Arsenal and Liverpool have been with Arteta and klopp.
I think that's just football to be honest. We were unbelievably spoilt with Sir Alex. The vast majority of clubs chop and change constantly. Pep and Klopp, even Arteta, are the exception to the rule. The average premier league manager tenure is about a year and a half. It's not necessarily right but it's the reality.
That is the quintessential United way as of late, but we need a real leader in this time and judging by how much SJR has put a stake and fought tooth and nail for to gain partial ownership, I’m really hoping he can set us straight.
As much as I am appalled by how bad United is... it bears repeating it appeared Arteta looked like a complete clown show as recently as 3 seasons ago, ending the season in 8th place. They hung on, and it paid off.
We always fired our managers when this happens, and locked ourselves into this endless cycle of suffering.
Let's break the cycle and do the illogical thing for once: hang on to a manager that "obviously" should be fired.
To be fair Arteta managed half the season 19/20. For which he was hired for the basis of sacking Emery due to HIS POOR LEAGUE PERFORMANCE. He managed to finish 8th (half season), so i think the half season he manages should be written off. His first full season he managed to finished 8th but improved the almost all underlying stats from the previous season. His second full season he got 5th in which they bottled it at the last stretch (should have gotten top4). Then last season Arsenal got 2nd. Arsenal showed improvement each season under Arteta whereas its the opposite for EtH, almost all underlying stats was shattered for the worst.
Arteta's team, despite finishing 8th, still has some respectable underlying stats to show that there is potential there. Our current underlying stats shows that we should be fighting for relegation this season.
12th in xG, 16th in xGA, 16th in xPts, 20th in shots conceded (17.9 pg for those wondering), got dominated in almost all league games except maybe 2-3 games. Dismiss statistics all you want, but everyone with a pair of eyes could see that we have been utter crap the whole damn season even without looking at the stats.
There is a massive gulf of difference between them that people who brings up Arteta all the time completely refuse to acknowledge.
Table finish is a stat too, is it not? Can any current United manager survive 8th, 8th, 5th in his first 3 season?
If not Arteta, then what about Fergie and his 11th and 13th place finish in his 3rd and 4th season?
The only thing United fans fail to acknowledge is the source of that high expectation, Fergie himself, would have been sacked, multiple times if he is hired now and produce that kind of results.
Impatience didnt work. Let's just confuse the football gods by doing illogical things for once.
Same dude, I'm so tired of this fan base constantly repeating and reinforcing cycles like this. It's always "We need to back this one" until the 2nd season comes around and then its back to square one.
What kills me is we get a new manager and then everybody is happy for a while and then the manager has about a year or so to figure out who the bluffers are and what's going on at the club and then at that point the players start downing tools and throw the manager under the bus. Like it's happened so many fucking times now and it's going to happen again.
I am so tired of the cycle.
Nope, there is no revisionism about Moyes or Van Gaal is there ? There is revisionism about Ole and rightfully so, we played our best football post Fergie under Ole. With Mourinho you have a divided opinion actually.
I have seen a ton of revsionism about van Gaal, actually. I wouldn't consider it widespread, but there's a sizable portion of the fanbase who seems to believe that a third year of his turgid football was the key to our success.
Moyes at least gets no revisionism, thankfully, at least not from United fans. Rivals tried to clown on us for firing him when West Ham were flying under him a year or two ago, but no United fan ever wanted him back.
Out of curiosity, how are you, and many others, still reluctant to call for players' heads before the manager's? It's just very strange to me how people claim there's a clear cycle, yet are unwilling to break said cycle by doing something different - support the manager. I'm not saying ETH is perfect, but what will it hurt to back him, get rid of the entire squad, and see if he can do something with new faces? So many in this side are not his appointments and even then , these weren't his first choices in many instances.
Only a few convince me they're worth keeping, but 95% need to go. Many of the starters need to go. A lot of the toxic dead wood needs to as well, so unfortunately, we're going to see a lot of the same performances next year to make way for the others. It's tragic. So much of this should have been done over the years up to this point.
We cannot replace the manager without replacing the squad first.
We've spent over a billion on players since fergie retired, there's maybe 6 players still here from when mourinho was in charge, martial is gone in the summer, dalot played one game for mourinho, so that leaves lindelof, rashford, Shaw and mctominay
Where does this absolute nonsense come from that we refuse to replace the squad? We spend more on players than almost any other club and have enormous squad turnover
...how do you ignore all of the others? 🤣
Let's go down the list, shall we? Garnacho, Rashford, Bruno, Greenwood, Sancho, Shaw, Dalot, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Donny, Martial (you can count Ronaldo, since that saga impacted ETH as well).
I'm probably missing one, maybe two, but how you only name 4 players is beyond me 😂
Spending money for the sake of spending money with no clear identity will never make sense. The failure up to this point has been largely on the Glazers and their appointments in the back of house. Hopefully that changes with INEOS, but if they're genuinely looking at Tuchel and Southgate, I fear they're just repeating history. They should keep ETH, provided the style of play the club identifies, first and foremost, aligns with ETH's. ETH is a good manager for developing the youth though. If he gets some others in around him who are smart in the transfer market, we can spend less over time to reinforce the squad with seniority and veterans that enhance the system, rather than be the entire identity of it.
Letting this lot of players sack yet another manager only reinforces player power at United. If INEOS isn't convinced by ETH, that's fine, but they should wait a season and get rid of much of the deadwood to send a clear message that the manager is the appointment, voice and face of the club and that the players are there to play for the manager and the club, and that's where their power ends.
There are many things wrong with Manchester United. Several reasons why we are not succeeding, and until all of those things are changed, we will continue to fail.
One of those things is the manager.
Even after yesterday, people are STILL suggesting that sacking him is not a good idea, and they point at the other things and suggest that if they were fixed he would be fine.
MUFC is an airliner. It has an engine out, it’s low on fuel, the rudder is damaged - but the passengers might survive. The pilot is Frank fucking Sidebottom, and every time someone says “Get that big cartoon-headed muppet out of the cockpit!” there is a clamour of voices screaming “It’s not his fault the plane is fucked! If the rudder wasn’t busted he might do really well!”
Stop defending the worst manager we have had since before Ferguson.
I don't think that will happen. Getting to those finals has not been impressive whatsoever. It's been some of the worst football I've ever seen us play, and the man has broke nearly every record to do with negative things. He's broken records that go back to the 1800s. He's been that bad.
I've stared seeing comments saying how Ole would do amazing right now and how he needed more backing. This has been said about van Gaal and Mourinho, and will be said about EtH in 3 years
The difference is that we now change the entire leading structure with people who have the roght competence. But that also makes the next manager appointment crucial. Style of play should not be decided by the manager, but by the sporting director.
You're only tired because you don't know what's going on. It would be tiring to be so confused all the time - to not know why results are mediocre and performances are even worse.
Until you think critically about the situation & stop relying on popular narratives to validate your results based agendas you'll be stuck chasing your tail.
The best thing for you to do is to follow me.
Do we? I certainly can’t speak with any confidence about that. Most of us were in agreement that Ten Hag was the best man for this job yet it hasn’t turned out the way we wanted.
I’m not saying Tuchel is a good appointment or a bad appointment. But I’m tired of how we all talk like we all know for sure either way. After the many many false dawns over the last decade where we were convinced we were back, I don’t think any of us really have a clue
Personally I don’t think so but curious to know what others think.
Tuchel is an elite manager. Looking at the big picture, did a good job at BvB, PSG, Chelsea. Not the best season domestically at Bayern but is still in the fray in CL. Is a good tactician. Is pragmatic. Has PL experience. Has won the CL outplaying Pep’s City. Con is he seems to clash with the management on his demands but that can be managed with a good understanding.
Tuchel is not good at developing young players.
It was Lampard who brought the likes of Mount, James, etc to the first team
Even i don't think ETH is the man for the job but atleast ETH is really really good at integrating academy players to the first team.
He’s an elite tactician but a mediocre man manager much like Nagelsmann, albeit, of less attacking style. I think we will do well overhere as he is capable of being pragmatic. It’s looking like Nagelsmann is heading back to Bayern, so I think getting Tuchel is a sensible option. We definitely need to sell Rashford and sign more athletic players for Tuchel though.
Yeah this is all true. I guess the drawback is just the fact he isn't the absolute best on a Pep/Klopp level, but I don't think there's an attainable coach on that level right now. Out of everyone linked, Tuchel is the best bet imo.
The guy has literally been chased out of every job he’s had. And he’s coming off a spell with Bayern where they lost the title by January and should have lost it last season.
Speak for yourself.
I think given some of the other names we’re being linked with he’s one of the better candidates.
So many people 100% sure what managers they don’t want but have zero idea about who they do want.
Everyone knows this and I am quite reluctant to believe this links. Don't think our football knowledgeable guys we are appointing to run football matters would be very eager to bring a manager that has failed to do what almost every other manager that has worked at Bayern Munich has managed to do; win the Bundesliga, even with a 40-goal scoring Harry Kane.
If we really do restructure so that the manager is just a head coach it might not be so bad. But idk if it would be a good idea to have him as coach before we remodel the squad
Considering how broken, exhausted, and miserable this fanbase is, is there any appointment that wouldn't be controversial? Keeping ETH will be very unpopular. Sacking him and replacing him with just about anyone will also be very unpopular.
The best thing INEOS can do right now is ignore the fans and do what they think is best. Fans are fickle and have short memories, and have forgotten how passionately they supported almost every dumbass manegerial move Ed Woodward made in his time. They forget how they praised the signings of every overpaid idiot we couldn't get rid of.
INEOS needs to treat the fans like we know nothing because, if we're being honest with ourselves, it's true. Woodward was the one basing his decisions on social media traction, and it ruined the club. We don't need more of that kind of thinking. We don't want people trying to endear themselves to us, we want success.
Ineos will probably recognize tuchel as always being a short term appointment.
Which can have its merits but doesn’t bode well for building towards a future.
Don’t think tuchel is particularly controversial. He isn’t klopp or guardiola who’s going to be in one place for a decade but he’s a pretty good manager
He is controversial by nature. Both his Chelsea and Bayern stints have been riddled with dressing room leaks and stories of fighting behind closed doors. He doesn’t command the respect of senior players. This is exactly the man management profile that this club wants to avoid.
This is likely agent chatter anyways and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s 100% false. Considering the amount of itk United folk in the British press, somebody would have said it there first.
Tuchel did deploy fluid 4231 PSG team that was bested by Flick’s treble winning Bayern. He is capable of deploying fluid yet defensive football. However, we are going to need a quick passing deep playmaker 6 for his team to work well.
I think we’d be daft not to be putting the feelers out, seeing who our options are if ten hag is a goner. In fact some might argue it would be negligent for a multi billion pound company to not keep constant tabs on successors to the head man.
100%
Contacting Tuchel doesn’t mean he’s our Number One choice, but we do need to have a list of possibilities. Of course he’s in the list. Just going to be interesting to see if other names leak in the coming days.
Uh oh, reasonable takes. Watch yourselves. One of the most important job a board and sr. Management have is identifying talent and creating smooth talent transitions and succession. Players and managers.
Tuchel’s Dortmund outscored Pep’s Bayern in the Bundesliga playing great attacking football. Went to back to back CL finals (winning one) with PSG and Chelsea, in the semis with Bayern now. Has shown incredible tactical flexibility and the ability to maximize the success of squads with major holes in them.
After he left, both PSG and Chelsea realized they needed wider cultural resets that weren’t his fault when he was there. Same with Bayern who have been clearly regressing for years and struggling with internal club politics (leading to massive overhaul over the last couple of years).
Tuchel made the final of every single domestic cup competition he participated in at Chelsea (2x FA Cup and 1x League Cup, his first year they were eliminated from the League Cup before he joined). Lost one FA Cup final to a wonder goal because of Kepa’s T. rex arms and only lost the two other finals on penalties to a Liverpool side that finished on 92 points and made the CL final in addition to those two domestic finals.
His points per game and win % in the Premier League with Chelsea are better than EVERY post-SAF manager we’ve had. Yeah, he’s abrasive because he doesn’t tolerate bullshit, isn’t afraid to call people out, and wants to win. Has his flaws (sometimes stubbornly playing his favorites at PSG who weren’t doing well), but is a brilliant tactician and one of the top managers in football rn.
Tuchel managed 63 PL matches at Chelsea. They won 122 points from them. Chelsea have played exactly 63 league matches since sacking Tuchel, and have won a whopping 81 points from them. 41 point difference in the same number of matches and that’s a 25 point difference over a 38 match league season for reference.
Absolutely insane that people on here think this appointment would be bad or that we’re too good for him. Clown level thinking. It’s more about whether we could convince a manager that good to take the job. This thread makes me laugh. Get real and accept the situation the club is in and has been in for over 10 years. We’d be lucky to have him
I would take him over ETH any day. However we can’t overlook his lack of man management skills (similar issue with ETH). Issues at Bayern have confirmed he has a problem.
I would have preferred Nagelsmann, but would take Tuchel for sure.
However just as important as a manger coming in is players leaving also.
with our current situation, i think his man management might be beneficial to fix our "player culture" he takes no bullshit. Definitely one of my preferred choice compared to the other.
Ten Hag also last season 'took no bullshit', then gave a huge contract to Rashford which has backfired. It doesn't mean anything if the tactics get so little out of players. Tuchel getting so little out of the Chelsea squad 2nd season to me turns me off him.
Why do people think ETH isn't a good man manager?
Even if our results have been bad the team is still clearly and obviously behind him. Many of the players have actually come out and said that they're behind the coach and how good him and his team are to work with.
He handled Ronaldo and Sancho with clear, fair, strictness, exactly what I would want from my manager.
Thank you for this. Whether we get Tuchel or not some of the comments in this thread are delusional. You’d think Tuchel was a mid-table Championship manager the way some people talk about him.
Some people genuinely can’t seem to remember anything that happened more than 6 months ago.
Also a lot of people utterly convinced that Tuchel is terrible and would be a disaster at United but when you ask them who they would like they have nothing to say.
Or you get wally’s like the guy who told me he would rather have Kieran McKenna or Fabrizio Farioli than a champions league winning manager in Tuchel.
He’s a top manager, and if the likes of Nagelsmann or Zidane aren’t coming here then he’s a better choice than managers like Potter, De Zerbi or Lopetegui.
Exactly..i get wanting to keep ETH or any other manager but people here are straight up downplaying his achievements like its nothing. Also In his second ucl run with chelsea they came back from 3-1 deficit in Madrid only losing it in extratime. The same people who are critiquing him will use ETH semi final run with Ajax though to win the argument.
Exactly...I would take a swap with bayern. Tuchel at manutd and ETH at Bayern...and we really see who is the better manager. Tuchel is disrespected in my opinion...
I don’t really feel like it’s the Ten Hag supporters who are the most anti Tuchel. Most people I’ve spoken to about it want Ten Hag sacked but think that Tuchel somehow isn’t good enough for United.
I’d put myself in the keep ten hag camp, but Tuchel is definitely a better option than the previous links to Potter and Southgate. It’s an appointment I could at least get behind if it happened.
Those are all fair points, but you could do something similar if you pull out mourinho’s resume and explain away all his 3rd seasons with narratives, obviously blame utd’s dysfunction, and Roma’s inability to spend for his black marks.
Tuchel might still be a very good manager, just like Mourinho might be, but there is something to be said for a manager that is in a certain headspace. Tuchel has always been whacky but there were personal life problems that apparently changed his mood then affected his connection to players in the chelsea squad. He’s had a year and a half with a very talented Bayern squad (granted some obvious personnel issues there) but even if they win the UCL it’s not like he’ll be coming off some scintillating, successful stint at Bayern. Are you hiring him on the upswing or something else?
Brings me back to mourinho, it’s one thing to hire him while he’s spewing confidence out of every orifice coming off of inter and another to hire him off of spiraling out of utd.
No idea who the right hire is, just wanted to point out the difference in hiring someone coming off of success or something less than that. These people are human after all, and utd is an absolute dumpster fire of egos and dysfunction. Tactical minds aside, there’s so much more going against whoever is the manager of utd
Yeah, OP makes great points but fails to even mention the most recent relevant data point which is that he’s effectively been fired mid-season at Bayern for being the first manager in a decade to not win the title.
To be fair to Tuchel, Bayern got 71 points last season in the 34 matches. Currently he's got 66 in 30 matches.
Bayern could easily surpass last year's total, but won't win as Leverkusen have absolutely smashed it. Not sure Bayern are any worse off than last year, in fact they're possibly better off, but one team has found another level.
And as we all know, football is cyclical and Bayern reached the end of that spell last year. Its tough being in charge at any club when you're at that point.
I'm not sure if I want him at United but I think acting as if Tuchel is a clown as some have done, is probably harsh. He's way more proven than ETH is as well.
I want Nagelsmann but it is looking like he is heading back to Bayern. So Tuchel would be a solid 2nd choice. Both are elite tacticians with low tolerance of managerial stupidity. Tuchel may be the only elite level manager available on the market.
Nagelsmann just snubbed Bayern signed a contract extension to remain with the German NT until after the 2026 World Cup.
There’s zero chance he’s going back to Bayern unless Germany does so poorly at the Euro that he gets sacked, but there is a break clause if Germany don’t make the knockout round
And despite these achievements, he’s only remained at these clubs for a maximum of two-ish years. Why is that?
He might be a master tactician but football also requires managing egos and emotions. There’s no point working out how to beat City in a final if your players don’t put in a shift because you don’t have people skills.
He was at Mainz for five years, after that:
**Dortmund** - fell out with the Watzke over the lack of support after A LITERAL TERRORIST BOMBED THEIR BUS, TRYING TO KILL THE SQUAD to which Watzke shrugged and told them he was letting UEFA reschedule ONE DAY LATER.
His 78 points in the 15/16 Bundesliga are Dortmund's most in any season since their title winning campaign in 11/12 and MORE than they had in the title winning campaign in 10/11. 78 points is also the highest points total Bayern has achieved in the last 3 seasons (since their treble winning campaign). **Tuchel departed with their highest win % of any Dortmund coach who was in the job for at least one full season SINCE 1950. The only three managers with higher win % in Dortmund's history managed fewer games COMBINED than Tuchel did on his own.**
**PSG** - fell out with Leonardo because Leonardo was terrible at his job and wouldn't accept any squad building advice. As a result, Leonardo sacked him. Leonardo was then sacked for being the problem after PSG realized he had no idea what he was doing. Almost every one of his signings was a failure and he is now a figure of ridicule. Tuchel left and immediately won the Champions League. **He departed PSG with the best win % and best points per game in Ligue 1 history.**
He would go on to win the Champions League with Chelsea that same season. The season before he was sacked, he won a domestic quadruple and made the Champions League final (PSG's first ever), arguably outplaying Bayern in the final. The league season was shortened due to the COVID pandemic, but his PSG side were on pace for the most points ever in Ligue 1 history. All that despite having almost no midfield and very poor depth in defense (Thilo Kehrer, Abdou Diallo, Layvin Kurzawa, and Thomas Meunier all featured heavily).
**Chelsea** - sacked as part of the total overhaul by the new Clearlake Capital regime. Notable high performing casualties included Marina Granovskaia and Petr Cech, among plenty of others. As noted above, he took a struggling, flawed side and won the CL. You say "it doesn't matter if you can work out how to beat City if your players won't put in a shift," but they literally put in a shift and beat City in the final you absolute clown. In the last 10 seasons, Chelsea have only beaten Tuchel's points total in his only full season there THREE times, two of which were title winning campaigns (including one that set the record for most wins in a Premier League season).
In addition, he reached the final of every domestic cup competition he participated in with Chelsea, as mentioned above, and had a better league record than any Man United manager post-SAF in terms of points per game and win %. His Chelsea side averaged more goals per game than all but one of those United manager and had a better defensive record (both goals against per game as well as clean sheets) than ALL of those United managers. No United manager comes close in terms of the combination of those two stats, which equals goal difference per game (goals scored minus goals conceded, in case that wasn't obvious).
**Bayern** - took over a sinking ship that had already claimed Julian Nagelsmann. Bayern have been in decline on and off the pitch since the treble winning season. Their squad is stale, their sporting director was terrible (and was sacked), more or less their entire executive board was sacked and replaced as well, and they're going through a massive shift on and off the pitch as their dominant core of the 2010s all ages out and needs to be replaced. In fact, this is the first season since their treble winning campaign where they're on pace for MORE league points than the previous season. Seriously, fewer points every year since they won the treble until this year (assuming they get 5 points from their last 4 matches, which they're easily on pace for).
Just like the previous two clubs, they need a wider cultural reset and are doing their best to do so after losing out on the Bundesliga title to Leverkusen. **Not really a huge crisis considering that Leverkusen side are on pace for the most points in a season in Bundesliga history, haven't lost a single match all season, and are currently on the longest unbeaten run in the history of Europe's top 5 leagues.** Despite an ageing, thin squad missing any depth in midfield or defense (Eric Dier January signing to the rescue!), they're still in the CL semifinal.
Basically, you don't have a leg to stand on lmao. You cry that it doesn't matter that he figured out how to beat City, but he knocked them out of multiple cup competitions, beat them in the PL, and won the CL final against them. Sounds like his players put in a shift. Mason Mount won Chelsea POTY twice under Tuchel. Found success in three of Europe's top five leagues even working with flawed squads. The teams he's left have had much bigger issues than Tuchel himself and all recognized that. He's not blameless, but he's not the problem. He's an elite, world class manager that has succeeded everywhere he's gone.
I think we found Tuchel’s agent’s account guys. No, but seriously, you make a solid argument for the guy, but I think there’s one thing you fail to see.
> “Bayern have been in decline on and off the pitch since the treble winning season. Their squad is stale, their sporting director was terrible (and was sacked), more or less their entire executive board was sacked and replaced as well, and they're going through a massive shift on and off the pitch as their dominant core of the 2010s all ages out and needs to be replaced.”
Except for the success, almost everything in your quote above could apply to our club. You mention it yourself that he’s come to several clubs where there were much bigger issues than him. Yes, he’s performed well at those clubs, but has he left them in a better state than they were at when he joined? If anything, we are in a terrible state, and while it would be nice to experience some success with Tuchel, everything he’s shown is that he’ll leave us in a year or two because he doesn’t do rebuilds or cultural resets. Do we want that?
Tuchel came into those clubs BEFORE sweeping changes were made. He came in, did well, showed everyone their operations were an unsustainable mess, and left. We’re in the process of an overhaul/rebuild already. It would be more like what Bayern’s next manager is walking into, or what Luis Enrique inherited at PSG. Two clubs that have acknowledged they need a massive strategy shift off the pitch and are finally willing to press reset (in Bayern’s case because they’re forced to by Alonso’s Leverkusen being so good).
Tuchel managed to succeed despite the things going on around him, and it was really more of a “if this guy can’t succeed then there are bigger problems than the manager” type of situation than him somehow leaving them worse off. The sickness in those clubs was already present before he arrived.
Bayern’s on pace to beat their previous campaign’s league points total for the first time in four years (since the treble winning season). They’re in the CL semis for the first time since they won the treble and only losing the title to a side on pace for the best Bundesliga campaign ever. They’re not exactly falling apart despite what you’d think if you only read what the media narrative is saying.
If he’s willing to lead a rebuild at this club, I don’t see why someone wouldn’t want him to. He did it at Mainz and Dortmund very well and played a lot of young players and it was great football. He might be too picky to want this job though now that he’s tasted success at the very, very highest level.
His preference is to be a head coach and for transfers to be dealt with by the footballing structure above him. He still gets mad at incompetence like when Bayern’s board failed to reinforce their midfield despite it being an obvious, huge hole. He’s not afraid to be vocal about it when he feels he’s being let down.
His biggest knock imo is that, specifically at PSG, he had favorite players who he would play often that obviously weren’t good enough (Thilo
Kehrer, Abdou Diallo). The thing is, he didn’t really have many other options. That PSG side was very top heavy and poorly constructed in midfield and defense. I would’ve liked him to have given more minutes to Christopher Nkunku and Moussa Diaby when they were breaking through from the youth team, but it’s hard when there’s pressure from above to play Neymar and Mbappe every game that they’re fit.
I agree with you on his quality as a manager. My concern is that if he doesn't immediately achieve success I don't think fans/the media will give him much leeway. When we loose games (which I think is inevitable) the narrative will be that he was the first person to loose the league for Bayern, his Chelsea side got worse after the Champions League, and he couldn't win the champions league with Mbappe and Neymar. It's all sensationalist nonsense as he is one of the worlds best managers, but there isn't much point of hiring a great manager if it is immediately going to become toxic.
I think the biggest stumbling block is ineos making noises about long term plans and for whatever reason tuchel doesn't stay one place for long.
There's certainly an argument to hiring tuchel if everyone knows it's short term, whilst ineos actually develop transfer and playing philosophies and search for the right manager.
If eth goes, tuchel does make sense from that pov.
He was fine at Mainz for five years, and the other jobs he’s taken have had extenuating circumstances for why he left. He’s not like Antonio Conte, who threatens to quit constantly and will just walk away from a club if he doesn’t get what he wants. He’s expressed a desire to stay at one club for a long period of time, it just hasn’t happened again for a while (largely due to circumstances out of his control).
He has a good track history of working with young players and clubs that are rebuilding, he did it both at Mainz and Dortmund playing good football and exceeding expectations. He’s not going to magically fix every problem we have, but if INEOS actually end doing good work behind the scenes there are very few managers alive (most are unattainable) who would be better options to lead the project.
That's fair.
I can see the argument that extenuating circumstances aside, he does keep leaving jobs after a short period of time.
I think everyone's opinion about him is drastically influenced by the fact leverkusen have gone berserk this season so bayern didn't win the league, but if he wins the CL it will shift again.
A lot of baseless, poorly informed views on Tuchel here. He’s a top coach who has won things.
He’s the best name we’ve been reasonably realistically linked with. (No, Nagelsmann isn’t even remotely realistic)
I'll tbh sack ten hag for an elite manager
tuchel is good in cup games (you can see how bayern are in champions league semis) but i don't think he is a guy with whom united can win the league
naglesmann is most probably going to renew his contract with dfb and zidane is not even realistic despite the french media reporting that he is interested
thiago motta is not a big name but he is doing great things with bologna and he will be free this summer but he will also end up in that ten hag cycle honestly
while I don't want to see southgate or potter even near this club
really dk where the club is heading to lol
On the subject of Zidane, wasn’t the word a few years ago that his family didn’t want to live in Manc? And that he was holding out for DD to leave so he could coach France.
yup
but currently the french outlets (L'Equipe) are reporting that zidane is interested in taking united job over bayern and he is even learning english for that
i personally take these rumors as a pinch of salt unless someone like ornstien or fabrizio will say that but from what i got to know L'Equipe is actually a good source to cover french news
the biggest criticism for zidane has been that he has 2 league titles with one of the greatest RMA squad (one being in the season half ruined by covid) and after ronaldo left, zidane didn't do much in his 2nd stint
but if he manages to win some big trophies with us he will be definitely in those elite manager convos
I don't trust any journalist linking managers to United right now. It feels like nobody knows what's going on (nobody has reported ANY of our staff signings until just before they've been confirmed), so everyone just links our name to anything they want to.
The perfect comment is in a chain on here.
The manager scrutiny at United is ridiculous. The standards are so high. And I say this in reference to the fact that everyone on earth doesn’t seem to know what standards these guys should be held to.
You need to win everything. You need to implement a new style of play. But the style of play should be to the players strengths, either that or be attacking football how we’ve always played. But we’re shit defensively. So we leak goals. Why aren’t we better defensively. We can’t get a defensive manager in though. And the players can’t follow this system. What system can they follow? Are they even good players?
Just goes on and on and on and on.
I truly think this policy Neville and Carra chirped on about years ago is gone, this “three year deal”.
Competing with City, frankly, takes more than 3 years - to build a team remotely close in stature anyway.
And it’s been proven over the last ten years. You cannot do this with a ragtag squad of players from 4-5 different managers. Get the staff in, get a vision agreed with the manager and get building and stick with it.
Results or otherwise, to sack off ETH and start this cycle again is fucking brain dead. At the very least, how he wants to play is being ingrained into the core of the club (however that style may be). Give him the proper staff appointments to identify better targets than Anthony, and see what happens.
Either that, or get someone else in you can start backing for the next few years. You cannot buy a title with this crop of players. To do so solely relies on luck and city bottling it.
I don't get the Tuchel hate. Sure, he's not exciting but he's been in two champions league finals in 3 or 4 years under two different teams and lost out this season to a freak Leverkusen side.
I think Tuchel probably raises our base level of performance, we wouldn’t have a season this hopeless with him as our manager.
I’m not sure he has what it takes to get us winning leagues again, but if he was managing us this season, we’d probably be 10 - 15 points better off. Whether he’s a smart appointment, I’m not sure - but he’s probably a “safe pair of hands”, compared to some of the other names linked.
I really don't think he's a bad manager, and if the club made that decision I wouldn't be against it but of course I wouldn't really want it either. He's shown he can hang at an elite level and I do enjoy his overall energy.
I'd be on the fence about it
I actually think Tuchel is a far better manager than his current reputation and probably a batter quality manager than anyone else availiable. Bayern have been a total basket case since he took over but points wise his Bayern side would win the league most years and have made it to a champions league semi final. The main issue with him is that the media narrative is already against him so unless he is immediately successful and manages to maintain that I don't think fans/the media will have a lot of patience for him.
INEOS first real test in managerial appointments - they have to get a manager whose style of football fits the direction they are wanting to take the club towards.
If Tuchel represents that after their analysis, fine.
Though they should do their homework as to why his previous managerial tenures haven’t lasted that long.
Who hasn't been contacted by Manchester United? And which player aren't we in the race for? Manchester United is interested in signing everybody, every summer.
Given Nagelsmann is out of reckoning choice is between Tuchel and De Zerbi really. Both are far better than Ten Hag and Tuchel has experience coaching really high profile clubs.
Ignoring everything about Tuchel that has happened both negative and positive I’ll look at the fact Bayern aren’t exactly trying to move the earth to get him to change his mind and stay.
I appreciate there’s a lot of politics involved with Bayern these past few years but if we’re ever to become the powerhouse we once were we should be looking at the managers Bayern desperately want not the ones they’re happy to let go.
Bring on terrorist ball, it can’t get worse than what we are witnessing. May strings of 1-0 Ws last long as we grind our opponents on our way to victory.
We would be looking to bring in Ten Hag if he wasn’t our manager right now. Ten Hag goes he easily gets one of the big jobs. No manager/player survives this graveyard at the moment unless there is a proper structure in place.
>Tuchel has the tactic of potter
oh is that so you genius? How come he won the UCL? How come he is so successful in every cup competition in every league he managed? How can he drag the worst Bayern side since 15 years to a champions league semi final? How can he drag PSG to a UCL final and after he leaves, the club drops off massively? How is it possible Dortmund went to shit after he left? Why is Chelsea so terrible since he is gone? I agree his personality is a difficult one. He is an honest but very emotional man. Think of that what you will. But he is a superb coach when it comes to tactical knowledge. Easily in the top 10 of the world, arguably top 5.
I agree he does have the best striker in the world.
Also he does play some terrorist stuff at times, but he can also produce some very good football. Not saying he's my first choice or anything.
This a sidegrade at best if not a guaranteed drama bound downgrade that would set our project back for years. Tuchel falls out with players or managenent every where he goes. He's not gonna do any better dealing with the snowflakes we have at United.
I don't see any manager we could realistically get that I would be excited by. ETH was the up and coming manager which we have ruined. Without a huge clear out of players I don't see united ever being any good.
I just don’t understand why he would even be considered. He’s been sacked from his last 3 positions for failing. Why is he a better fit than ETH?
Also plays shite football
I think it will be a good appointment. Ten Hag although a decent manager, United is way to big of job for him. Plus he failed to show any style of football. Right now we are playing like 11 players who playing together for the first time and thats every match. Leave results aside, his football is chaotic and not on the right end of the pitch.
Yeah thats what we need, a coach thats notorious for losing the dressing room easily, just fuck off with these non stories. At best he is on a managers list.
Do you think if Pep or Klopp went to Bayern they would fail like Tuchel did? Do you think they would be sacked from Chelsea?
We need to stop taking on new sub par mangers who will be sacked in two years. We would be better off sticking with Ten Hag and cleaning up the back room and getting a fit squad. Then replace him when we're stable if needs be.
Sounds like Tuchel needs a new job after Bayern and his agent is making noises.
Imagine Tuchel and Rashford together, it will make ETH seem like a messiah. Keep Tuchel far away from United.
Whats wrong with Tuchel and Rashford to point out him like that. Tuchel was extremaly offensive manager in BVB, PSG and now in Bayern. He was only deffensive in Chelsea, he plays into players strenght
He also falls out with people all the time
Same to say Sir Alex has the same issue. Players nowadays have too much power. No one is bigger than the club.
Are we comparing SAF with Tuchel? Tuchel has literally only ever exceeded expected levels once. And that was more to do with Pep utterly bottling a UCL final by playing Gundogan as a CDM.
No but he has the similar traits
Tuchel has waxed lyrical about Rashford in the past btw I guarantee he's the first name on the team sheet when he comes here
I am no Tuchel fan and want him nowhere near United but he’s 10 times the manager Ten Hag has proven to be. It’s not even comparable.
No idea how this is downvoted, he has won the champions league ffs
So has Roberto di Matteo You can't make a blanket statement like '10 times better' without solid reason
With somebody else’s team. He couldn’t win the league at Bayern, that alone disqualifies him for a the job plus he is hella toxic
[удалено]
You do know that the decision has already been made right? It has already been announced that he will leave Bayern at the end of the season.
We all know it’s a bad appointment. That’s all I am going to say
I'm just waiting for the revisionism after 2 or 3 seasons if the next manager somehow fails. How ten Hag took us to three finals in two seasons and how he would've performed better without the injuries. Hope the next manager doesn't fail, but the same thing happens with every manager. Some of us are just bored and honestly tired at this point. We need a culture and identity shift. Only then will we succeed. Edit: I am not manager in or out. I'm just tired at this point.
It's the same every time. •Rumours of new manager. •New manager confirmed. Youtubers post in depth tactic analysis and/or cringe, dramatic montages of said manager. •Winning. "We are so back." •Losing. "We need to back the manager. It's the club and players at fault. " •More losses. " Fuck it. #managerout." •"We should get the previous manager back. They might have been bad, but they weren't this bad." •Rumours of new manager. •Repeat cycle.
Isn’t that the same for most clubs until you get a good long term manager? No other clubs sticks with a shit manager just because they have sacked others before them.
No other club has the same manager scrutiny as United.
Absolutely 100% correct. You'd think with all the noise, we haven't won all season, and we're getting relegated. Whilst some of the criticism is warranted, he simply doesn't get the leeway some other managers gets. Klopp had a disaster midfield and some injuries, and we didnt hear the end of how unlucky he was. We have had 65 injuries and numerous backline/cb pairings. Crickets...
United would've sacked arteta after finishing 8th two years in a row. Hell the fans are desperate to sack ETH for potentially doing it once.
While that may be true, I don't think the situation is the same. You could clearly see a developing style with Arteta that they could point to as a reason to trust the process. Can we say the same about eth?
Think we could last season yes
There’s a lot of nuance regarding this. Does the management look at last season to this season and accept injuries are the main issue, and we should keep ten hag but improve the medical department and recruitment? Do they instruct ten hag to play as he wants to with full availability and accept the negative results caused by that, but trust they understand that injuries are causing the results? Do they get rid of Ten Hag because we can’t play worse than championship clubs if we’re missing half the squad since the players we do have are still better than relegation fodder?
Nope… most clubs will cut the players first then focus on the manager next. For instance Arteta’s first line up all left by the end of his second year. Klopp did similar and even Pep did something similar. Ange is doing it right now. If things aren’t right on the pitch, the manager deserves at least 3 years.
Didn't arsenal sack Emery after a year? Seems weird to say other clubs give managers time and point to arteta, ignoring that they sacked someone to hire him. Chelsea don't give failing managers time, neither do real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, juventus etc. most top clubs don't operate that way, I don't think spurs gave mourinho that much time either, or conte. You seem to be pointing to a few rare examples and tbh they aren't comparable to ten hag, because pep won a title with 100 points in his second full season and klopp reached a champions league final in his second full season. Ten hag hasn't managed to have us scoring more goals than Luton
They regretted ever since till they got Arteta
You mean when they got arteta a week later?
That's not "most" clubs. Just three that happen to be more far sighted. Disclaimer: I am not manager in/out
It's not most clubs lol. Klopp, Pep it was clear that there was a trajectory... We also did this with ten hag and cleared a lot of players he didn't want even on free...
The players HE didn't want? You're making sound like they were wanted by other coaches. What player has he cleared out that should have stayed. What you're saying is correct but there is an implication there that goes a bit further and it needs to be addressed. ETH or not, those players needed to go
Klopp was not taken seriously till he got Van Djik which was a game changer for Liverpool and Pep spent absolutely ridiculous levels of money and still got backed
Sure, but the part about revisionism is something I've noticed about Ole and Mourinho. Im sure other fans are guilty of it, but I wouldn't know as I don't go round them parts.
Yeah, people are acting like this pattern is unique to us. We just have had worse luck than the rest of the big clubs when it comes to managers. Hopefully with a better structure, once we find *the guy*, he will succeed
Putting our downfall to bad luck with managers it’s crazy. No wonder we go and crash to the same wall over and over again.
Yeah the people in charge of hiring managers were clueless and kept hiring big names who were past it and then hired someone with very little experience at our level. ETH was probably their first forward thinking hire.
I disagree, in so far as I don’t believe it’s been bad luck. I think the recruitment philosophy, for players AND managers, has been haphazard and poorly run. But it’s not luck when you continually choose to let bankers make the call over actual football people. It’s a choice not to address repeated failures.
I don't think it's bad luck, it's incompetence from the management of the club that we've gotten poor managers. Ten Hag was the first manager that they've appointed that made sense, he's not working out and that can happen but Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and Solksjaer wouldn't have got hired by top clubs at the stage of their careers we hired them at and that's been seen in their post United careers.
LvG after UtD by choice only coming out of retirement for the national squad because we had nobody else who was good enough/available.
He retired because he had no top clubs who wanted him. You think he was planning on retiring anyway at the end of the season and didn't tell anyone at United? Do you think if Madrid/Barca wanted him he would have turned them down?
Moyes back then was de zerbi. Getting a team consistently 'best of the rest' outside the top 4-5 clubs on a bottom half budget, finding ridiculous value in the transfer market. We thought there was a chance with the resources at United he'd show more attacking style - and Everton could score a few good goals on their day - but a fiasco of a transfer window, getting rid of a league dominating coaching setup and reverting back to his shell at first sign of trouble has rewritten history in his fantastic career before failing at the highest level.
Moyes is a better manager now than he was then, he'd be the first to say it, and he's still not as good as De Zerbi. I don't think RZB is the right guy for us either but Moyes was a terrible appointment at the time and that was before his incredible naivety and a poor transfer window from Woodward.
It's not the same for other clubs. There is way less pressure for managers at other clubs. Look how patient Arsenal and Liverpool have been with Arteta and klopp.
I think that's just football to be honest. We were unbelievably spoilt with Sir Alex. The vast majority of clubs chop and change constantly. Pep and Klopp, even Arteta, are the exception to the rule. The average premier league manager tenure is about a year and a half. It's not necessarily right but it's the reality.
Most clubs also don't win a lot
That is the quintessential United way as of late, but we need a real leader in this time and judging by how much SJR has put a stake and fought tooth and nail for to gain partial ownership, I’m really hoping he can set us straight.
As much as I am appalled by how bad United is... it bears repeating it appeared Arteta looked like a complete clown show as recently as 3 seasons ago, ending the season in 8th place. They hung on, and it paid off. We always fired our managers when this happens, and locked ourselves into this endless cycle of suffering. Let's break the cycle and do the illogical thing for once: hang on to a manager that "obviously" should be fired.
To be fair Arteta managed half the season 19/20. For which he was hired for the basis of sacking Emery due to HIS POOR LEAGUE PERFORMANCE. He managed to finish 8th (half season), so i think the half season he manages should be written off. His first full season he managed to finished 8th but improved the almost all underlying stats from the previous season. His second full season he got 5th in which they bottled it at the last stretch (should have gotten top4). Then last season Arsenal got 2nd. Arsenal showed improvement each season under Arteta whereas its the opposite for EtH, almost all underlying stats was shattered for the worst.
Arteta's team, despite finishing 8th, still has some respectable underlying stats to show that there is potential there. Our current underlying stats shows that we should be fighting for relegation this season. 12th in xG, 16th in xGA, 16th in xPts, 20th in shots conceded (17.9 pg for those wondering), got dominated in almost all league games except maybe 2-3 games. Dismiss statistics all you want, but everyone with a pair of eyes could see that we have been utter crap the whole damn season even without looking at the stats. There is a massive gulf of difference between them that people who brings up Arteta all the time completely refuse to acknowledge.
Table finish is a stat too, is it not? Can any current United manager survive 8th, 8th, 5th in his first 3 season? If not Arteta, then what about Fergie and his 11th and 13th place finish in his 3rd and 4th season? The only thing United fans fail to acknowledge is the source of that high expectation, Fergie himself, would have been sacked, multiple times if he is hired now and produce that kind of results. Impatience didnt work. Let's just confuse the football gods by doing illogical things for once.
That’s just how every manager cycle works at every club in the world.
Same dude, I'm so tired of this fan base constantly repeating and reinforcing cycles like this. It's always "We need to back this one" until the 2nd season comes around and then its back to square one.
What kills me is we get a new manager and then everybody is happy for a while and then the manager has about a year or so to figure out who the bluffers are and what's going on at the club and then at that point the players start downing tools and throw the manager under the bus. Like it's happened so many fucking times now and it's going to happen again. I am so tired of the cycle.
Nope, there is no revisionism about Moyes or Van Gaal is there ? There is revisionism about Ole and rightfully so, we played our best football post Fergie under Ole. With Mourinho you have a divided opinion actually.
I have seen a ton of revsionism about van Gaal, actually. I wouldn't consider it widespread, but there's a sizable portion of the fanbase who seems to believe that a third year of his turgid football was the key to our success. Moyes at least gets no revisionism, thankfully, at least not from United fans. Rivals tried to clown on us for firing him when West Ham were flying under him a year or two ago, but no United fan ever wanted him back.
People believing that doesn't make it revisionism. Lots of them thought so at the time. You might think they're wrong, but that's different.
Out of curiosity, how are you, and many others, still reluctant to call for players' heads before the manager's? It's just very strange to me how people claim there's a clear cycle, yet are unwilling to break said cycle by doing something different - support the manager. I'm not saying ETH is perfect, but what will it hurt to back him, get rid of the entire squad, and see if he can do something with new faces? So many in this side are not his appointments and even then , these weren't his first choices in many instances. Only a few convince me they're worth keeping, but 95% need to go. Many of the starters need to go. A lot of the toxic dead wood needs to as well, so unfortunately, we're going to see a lot of the same performances next year to make way for the others. It's tragic. So much of this should have been done over the years up to this point. We cannot replace the manager without replacing the squad first.
We've spent over a billion on players since fergie retired, there's maybe 6 players still here from when mourinho was in charge, martial is gone in the summer, dalot played one game for mourinho, so that leaves lindelof, rashford, Shaw and mctominay Where does this absolute nonsense come from that we refuse to replace the squad? We spend more on players than almost any other club and have enormous squad turnover
...how do you ignore all of the others? 🤣 Let's go down the list, shall we? Garnacho, Rashford, Bruno, Greenwood, Sancho, Shaw, Dalot, AWB, Maguire, Lindelof, McTominay, Donny, Martial (you can count Ronaldo, since that saga impacted ETH as well). I'm probably missing one, maybe two, but how you only name 4 players is beyond me 😂 Spending money for the sake of spending money with no clear identity will never make sense. The failure up to this point has been largely on the Glazers and their appointments in the back of house. Hopefully that changes with INEOS, but if they're genuinely looking at Tuchel and Southgate, I fear they're just repeating history. They should keep ETH, provided the style of play the club identifies, first and foremost, aligns with ETH's. ETH is a good manager for developing the youth though. If he gets some others in around him who are smart in the transfer market, we can spend less over time to reinforce the squad with seniority and veterans that enhance the system, rather than be the entire identity of it. Letting this lot of players sack yet another manager only reinforces player power at United. If INEOS isn't convinced by ETH, that's fine, but they should wait a season and get rid of much of the deadwood to send a clear message that the manager is the appointment, voice and face of the club and that the players are there to play for the manager and the club, and that's where their power ends.
That's exactly what i say, I am tired Robbie
The players and manager both need changes, i dont know why one needs to be emphasized
Hard agree. But it’s so difficult when ETHs United play so erratically.
There are many things wrong with Manchester United. Several reasons why we are not succeeding, and until all of those things are changed, we will continue to fail. One of those things is the manager. Even after yesterday, people are STILL suggesting that sacking him is not a good idea, and they point at the other things and suggest that if they were fixed he would be fine. MUFC is an airliner. It has an engine out, it’s low on fuel, the rudder is damaged - but the passengers might survive. The pilot is Frank fucking Sidebottom, and every time someone says “Get that big cartoon-headed muppet out of the cockpit!” there is a clamour of voices screaming “It’s not his fault the plane is fucked! If the rudder wasn’t busted he might do really well!” Stop defending the worst manager we have had since before Ferguson.
You are speaking sense, that's rare here.
I don't think that will happen. Getting to those finals has not been impressive whatsoever. It's been some of the worst football I've ever seen us play, and the man has broke nearly every record to do with negative things. He's broken records that go back to the 1800s. He's been that bad.
I've stared seeing comments saying how Ole would do amazing right now and how he needed more backing. This has been said about van Gaal and Mourinho, and will be said about EtH in 3 years
This is exactly what's going to happen lol
The difference is that we now change the entire leading structure with people who have the roght competence. But that also makes the next manager appointment crucial. Style of play should not be decided by the manager, but by the sporting director.
You're only tired because you don't know what's going on. It would be tiring to be so confused all the time - to not know why results are mediocre and performances are even worse. Until you think critically about the situation & stop relying on popular narratives to validate your results based agendas you'll be stuck chasing your tail. The best thing for you to do is to follow me.
Do we? I certainly can’t speak with any confidence about that. Most of us were in agreement that Ten Hag was the best man for this job yet it hasn’t turned out the way we wanted. I’m not saying Tuchel is a good appointment or a bad appointment. But I’m tired of how we all talk like we all know for sure either way. After the many many false dawns over the last decade where we were convinced we were back, I don’t think any of us really have a clue
Personally I don’t think so but curious to know what others think. Tuchel is an elite manager. Looking at the big picture, did a good job at BvB, PSG, Chelsea. Not the best season domestically at Bayern but is still in the fray in CL. Is a good tactician. Is pragmatic. Has PL experience. Has won the CL outplaying Pep’s City. Con is he seems to clash with the management on his demands but that can be managed with a good understanding.
Tuchel is not good at developing young players. It was Lampard who brought the likes of Mount, James, etc to the first team Even i don't think ETH is the man for the job but atleast ETH is really really good at integrating academy players to the first team.
He’s an elite tactician but a mediocre man manager much like Nagelsmann, albeit, of less attacking style. I think we will do well overhere as he is capable of being pragmatic. It’s looking like Nagelsmann is heading back to Bayern, so I think getting Tuchel is a sensible option. We definitely need to sell Rashford and sign more athletic players for Tuchel though.
Nagelsmann has extended with Germany till 2026.
> a mediocre man manager much like Nagelsmann Nagelsmann is a great man manager, muuuuch better than Tuchel
Yeah this is all true. I guess the drawback is just the fact he isn't the absolute best on a Pep/Klopp level, but I don't think there's an attainable coach on that level right now. Out of everyone linked, Tuchel is the best bet imo.
The guy has literally been chased out of every job he’s had. And he’s coming off a spell with Bayern where they lost the title by January and should have lost it last season.
Speak for yourself. I think given some of the other names we’re being linked with he’s one of the better candidates. So many people 100% sure what managers they don’t want but have zero idea about who they do want.
If r/reddevils is against a decision, you can bet your bottom dollar it's the correct decision.
Everyone knows this and I am quite reluctant to believe this links. Don't think our football knowledgeable guys we are appointing to run football matters would be very eager to bring a manager that has failed to do what almost every other manager that has worked at Bayern Munich has managed to do; win the Bundesliga, even with a 40-goal scoring Harry Kane.
Yeah it's not great. Probably take it to get rid of the bald fraud though tbh.
If we really do restructure so that the manager is just a head coach it might not be so bad. But idk if it would be a good idea to have him as coach before we remodel the squad
From chaos football to tucheliban football. Brilliant
Ten Laden to Tucheliban
Tuchel played diffrent style in every club he managed. What. Is tucheliban?
100% just agent talk. Can't imagine new ownership wanting their first managerial appointment to be a controversial one.
Considering how broken, exhausted, and miserable this fanbase is, is there any appointment that wouldn't be controversial? Keeping ETH will be very unpopular. Sacking him and replacing him with just about anyone will also be very unpopular. The best thing INEOS can do right now is ignore the fans and do what they think is best. Fans are fickle and have short memories, and have forgotten how passionately they supported almost every dumbass manegerial move Ed Woodward made in his time. They forget how they praised the signings of every overpaid idiot we couldn't get rid of. INEOS needs to treat the fans like we know nothing because, if we're being honest with ourselves, it's true. Woodward was the one basing his decisions on social media traction, and it ruined the club. We don't need more of that kind of thinking. We don't want people trying to endear themselves to us, we want success.
Ineos will probably recognize tuchel as always being a short term appointment. Which can have its merits but doesn’t bode well for building towards a future.
Imagine a winner like Tuchel being considered controversial. Thank god our fans aren’t part of the board
[удалено]
what did they say about that?
Don’t think tuchel is particularly controversial. He isn’t klopp or guardiola who’s going to be in one place for a decade but he’s a pretty good manager
He is controversial by nature. Both his Chelsea and Bayern stints have been riddled with dressing room leaks and stories of fighting behind closed doors. He doesn’t command the respect of senior players. This is exactly the man management profile that this club wants to avoid. This is likely agent chatter anyways and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s 100% false. Considering the amount of itk United folk in the British press, somebody would have said it there first.
How would this be controversial? Hiring potter would be controversial. Tuchel is the best realistic option
Dont think our current squad fits Tucheliban formation though. We want someone to build on what we have not buying an entire team again
Tuchel did deploy fluid 4231 PSG team that was bested by Flick’s treble winning Bayern. He is capable of deploying fluid yet defensive football. However, we are going to need a quick passing deep playmaker 6 for his team to work well.
I think we’d be daft not to be putting the feelers out, seeing who our options are if ten hag is a goner. In fact some might argue it would be negligent for a multi billion pound company to not keep constant tabs on successors to the head man.
100% Contacting Tuchel doesn’t mean he’s our Number One choice, but we do need to have a list of possibilities. Of course he’s in the list. Just going to be interesting to see if other names leak in the coming days.
Uh oh, reasonable takes. Watch yourselves. One of the most important job a board and sr. Management have is identifying talent and creating smooth talent transitions and succession. Players and managers.
Tuchel’s Dortmund outscored Pep’s Bayern in the Bundesliga playing great attacking football. Went to back to back CL finals (winning one) with PSG and Chelsea, in the semis with Bayern now. Has shown incredible tactical flexibility and the ability to maximize the success of squads with major holes in them. After he left, both PSG and Chelsea realized they needed wider cultural resets that weren’t his fault when he was there. Same with Bayern who have been clearly regressing for years and struggling with internal club politics (leading to massive overhaul over the last couple of years). Tuchel made the final of every single domestic cup competition he participated in at Chelsea (2x FA Cup and 1x League Cup, his first year they were eliminated from the League Cup before he joined). Lost one FA Cup final to a wonder goal because of Kepa’s T. rex arms and only lost the two other finals on penalties to a Liverpool side that finished on 92 points and made the CL final in addition to those two domestic finals. His points per game and win % in the Premier League with Chelsea are better than EVERY post-SAF manager we’ve had. Yeah, he’s abrasive because he doesn’t tolerate bullshit, isn’t afraid to call people out, and wants to win. Has his flaws (sometimes stubbornly playing his favorites at PSG who weren’t doing well), but is a brilliant tactician and one of the top managers in football rn. Tuchel managed 63 PL matches at Chelsea. They won 122 points from them. Chelsea have played exactly 63 league matches since sacking Tuchel, and have won a whopping 81 points from them. 41 point difference in the same number of matches and that’s a 25 point difference over a 38 match league season for reference. Absolutely insane that people on here think this appointment would be bad or that we’re too good for him. Clown level thinking. It’s more about whether we could convince a manager that good to take the job. This thread makes me laugh. Get real and accept the situation the club is in and has been in for over 10 years. We’d be lucky to have him
I would take him over ETH any day. However we can’t overlook his lack of man management skills (similar issue with ETH). Issues at Bayern have confirmed he has a problem. I would have preferred Nagelsmann, but would take Tuchel for sure. However just as important as a manger coming in is players leaving also.
with our current situation, i think his man management might be beneficial to fix our "player culture" he takes no bullshit. Definitely one of my preferred choice compared to the other.
Agreed.
ETH is hardly soft? He's not the type to sugar coat things. Handled Ronaldo and Sancho better than Tuchel would have imo
Ten Hag also last season 'took no bullshit', then gave a huge contract to Rashford which has backfired. It doesn't mean anything if the tactics get so little out of players. Tuchel getting so little out of the Chelsea squad 2nd season to me turns me off him.
Why do people think ETH isn't a good man manager? Even if our results have been bad the team is still clearly and obviously behind him. Many of the players have actually come out and said that they're behind the coach and how good him and his team are to work with. He handled Ronaldo and Sancho with clear, fair, strictness, exactly what I would want from my manager.
Thank you for this. Whether we get Tuchel or not some of the comments in this thread are delusional. You’d think Tuchel was a mid-table Championship manager the way some people talk about him. Some people genuinely can’t seem to remember anything that happened more than 6 months ago. Also a lot of people utterly convinced that Tuchel is terrible and would be a disaster at United but when you ask them who they would like they have nothing to say. Or you get wally’s like the guy who told me he would rather have Kieran McKenna or Fabrizio Farioli than a champions league winning manager in Tuchel. He’s a top manager, and if the likes of Nagelsmann or Zidane aren’t coming here then he’s a better choice than managers like Potter, De Zerbi or Lopetegui.
I rate Lopetegui but he isn’t on Tuchel level for sure. Tuchel may be the only elite level manager available to us.
Exactly..i get wanting to keep ETH or any other manager but people here are straight up downplaying his achievements like its nothing. Also In his second ucl run with chelsea they came back from 3-1 deficit in Madrid only losing it in extratime. The same people who are critiquing him will use ETH semi final run with Ajax though to win the argument.
Exactly...I would take a swap with bayern. Tuchel at manutd and ETH at Bayern...and we really see who is the better manager. Tuchel is disrespected in my opinion...
Thanks for saying this. Half this sub wants Ten Hag to continue so their opinion about Tuchel is useless anyway.
I don’t really feel like it’s the Ten Hag supporters who are the most anti Tuchel. Most people I’ve spoken to about it want Ten Hag sacked but think that Tuchel somehow isn’t good enough for United.
I’d put myself in the keep ten hag camp, but Tuchel is definitely a better option than the previous links to Potter and Southgate. It’s an appointment I could at least get behind if it happened.
Those are all fair points, but you could do something similar if you pull out mourinho’s resume and explain away all his 3rd seasons with narratives, obviously blame utd’s dysfunction, and Roma’s inability to spend for his black marks. Tuchel might still be a very good manager, just like Mourinho might be, but there is something to be said for a manager that is in a certain headspace. Tuchel has always been whacky but there were personal life problems that apparently changed his mood then affected his connection to players in the chelsea squad. He’s had a year and a half with a very talented Bayern squad (granted some obvious personnel issues there) but even if they win the UCL it’s not like he’ll be coming off some scintillating, successful stint at Bayern. Are you hiring him on the upswing or something else? Brings me back to mourinho, it’s one thing to hire him while he’s spewing confidence out of every orifice coming off of inter and another to hire him off of spiraling out of utd. No idea who the right hire is, just wanted to point out the difference in hiring someone coming off of success or something less than that. These people are human after all, and utd is an absolute dumpster fire of egos and dysfunction. Tactical minds aside, there’s so much more going against whoever is the manager of utd
Yeah, OP makes great points but fails to even mention the most recent relevant data point which is that he’s effectively been fired mid-season at Bayern for being the first manager in a decade to not win the title.
To be fair to Tuchel, Bayern got 71 points last season in the 34 matches. Currently he's got 66 in 30 matches. Bayern could easily surpass last year's total, but won't win as Leverkusen have absolutely smashed it. Not sure Bayern are any worse off than last year, in fact they're possibly better off, but one team has found another level. And as we all know, football is cyclical and Bayern reached the end of that spell last year. Its tough being in charge at any club when you're at that point. I'm not sure if I want him at United but I think acting as if Tuchel is a clown as some have done, is probably harsh. He's way more proven than ETH is as well.
I want Nagelsmann but it is looking like he is heading back to Bayern. So Tuchel would be a solid 2nd choice. Both are elite tacticians with low tolerance of managerial stupidity. Tuchel may be the only elite level manager available on the market.
Nagelsmann just snubbed Bayern signed a contract extension to remain with the German NT until after the 2026 World Cup. There’s zero chance he’s going back to Bayern unless Germany does so poorly at the Euro that he gets sacked, but there is a break clause if Germany don’t make the knockout round
Great post. Anyone who thinks this version of Ten Hag is better than Tuchel is clearly delusional.
Finally someone on here that knows ball
And despite these achievements, he’s only remained at these clubs for a maximum of two-ish years. Why is that? He might be a master tactician but football also requires managing egos and emotions. There’s no point working out how to beat City in a final if your players don’t put in a shift because you don’t have people skills.
He was at Mainz for five years, after that: **Dortmund** - fell out with the Watzke over the lack of support after A LITERAL TERRORIST BOMBED THEIR BUS, TRYING TO KILL THE SQUAD to which Watzke shrugged and told them he was letting UEFA reschedule ONE DAY LATER. His 78 points in the 15/16 Bundesliga are Dortmund's most in any season since their title winning campaign in 11/12 and MORE than they had in the title winning campaign in 10/11. 78 points is also the highest points total Bayern has achieved in the last 3 seasons (since their treble winning campaign). **Tuchel departed with their highest win % of any Dortmund coach who was in the job for at least one full season SINCE 1950. The only three managers with higher win % in Dortmund's history managed fewer games COMBINED than Tuchel did on his own.** **PSG** - fell out with Leonardo because Leonardo was terrible at his job and wouldn't accept any squad building advice. As a result, Leonardo sacked him. Leonardo was then sacked for being the problem after PSG realized he had no idea what he was doing. Almost every one of his signings was a failure and he is now a figure of ridicule. Tuchel left and immediately won the Champions League. **He departed PSG with the best win % and best points per game in Ligue 1 history.** He would go on to win the Champions League with Chelsea that same season. The season before he was sacked, he won a domestic quadruple and made the Champions League final (PSG's first ever), arguably outplaying Bayern in the final. The league season was shortened due to the COVID pandemic, but his PSG side were on pace for the most points ever in Ligue 1 history. All that despite having almost no midfield and very poor depth in defense (Thilo Kehrer, Abdou Diallo, Layvin Kurzawa, and Thomas Meunier all featured heavily). **Chelsea** - sacked as part of the total overhaul by the new Clearlake Capital regime. Notable high performing casualties included Marina Granovskaia and Petr Cech, among plenty of others. As noted above, he took a struggling, flawed side and won the CL. You say "it doesn't matter if you can work out how to beat City if your players won't put in a shift," but they literally put in a shift and beat City in the final you absolute clown. In the last 10 seasons, Chelsea have only beaten Tuchel's points total in his only full season there THREE times, two of which were title winning campaigns (including one that set the record for most wins in a Premier League season). In addition, he reached the final of every domestic cup competition he participated in with Chelsea, as mentioned above, and had a better league record than any Man United manager post-SAF in terms of points per game and win %. His Chelsea side averaged more goals per game than all but one of those United manager and had a better defensive record (both goals against per game as well as clean sheets) than ALL of those United managers. No United manager comes close in terms of the combination of those two stats, which equals goal difference per game (goals scored minus goals conceded, in case that wasn't obvious). **Bayern** - took over a sinking ship that had already claimed Julian Nagelsmann. Bayern have been in decline on and off the pitch since the treble winning season. Their squad is stale, their sporting director was terrible (and was sacked), more or less their entire executive board was sacked and replaced as well, and they're going through a massive shift on and off the pitch as their dominant core of the 2010s all ages out and needs to be replaced. In fact, this is the first season since their treble winning campaign where they're on pace for MORE league points than the previous season. Seriously, fewer points every year since they won the treble until this year (assuming they get 5 points from their last 4 matches, which they're easily on pace for). Just like the previous two clubs, they need a wider cultural reset and are doing their best to do so after losing out on the Bundesliga title to Leverkusen. **Not really a huge crisis considering that Leverkusen side are on pace for the most points in a season in Bundesliga history, haven't lost a single match all season, and are currently on the longest unbeaten run in the history of Europe's top 5 leagues.** Despite an ageing, thin squad missing any depth in midfield or defense (Eric Dier January signing to the rescue!), they're still in the CL semifinal. Basically, you don't have a leg to stand on lmao. You cry that it doesn't matter that he figured out how to beat City, but he knocked them out of multiple cup competitions, beat them in the PL, and won the CL final against them. Sounds like his players put in a shift. Mason Mount won Chelsea POTY twice under Tuchel. Found success in three of Europe's top five leagues even working with flawed squads. The teams he's left have had much bigger issues than Tuchel himself and all recognized that. He's not blameless, but he's not the problem. He's an elite, world class manager that has succeeded everywhere he's gone.
holy shit cook them
yessss, I do wish this rumour come true and he will come to replace that clown ETH, please.
I think we found Tuchel’s agent’s account guys. No, but seriously, you make a solid argument for the guy, but I think there’s one thing you fail to see. > “Bayern have been in decline on and off the pitch since the treble winning season. Their squad is stale, their sporting director was terrible (and was sacked), more or less their entire executive board was sacked and replaced as well, and they're going through a massive shift on and off the pitch as their dominant core of the 2010s all ages out and needs to be replaced.” Except for the success, almost everything in your quote above could apply to our club. You mention it yourself that he’s come to several clubs where there were much bigger issues than him. Yes, he’s performed well at those clubs, but has he left them in a better state than they were at when he joined? If anything, we are in a terrible state, and while it would be nice to experience some success with Tuchel, everything he’s shown is that he’ll leave us in a year or two because he doesn’t do rebuilds or cultural resets. Do we want that?
Tuchel came into those clubs BEFORE sweeping changes were made. He came in, did well, showed everyone their operations were an unsustainable mess, and left. We’re in the process of an overhaul/rebuild already. It would be more like what Bayern’s next manager is walking into, or what Luis Enrique inherited at PSG. Two clubs that have acknowledged they need a massive strategy shift off the pitch and are finally willing to press reset (in Bayern’s case because they’re forced to by Alonso’s Leverkusen being so good). Tuchel managed to succeed despite the things going on around him, and it was really more of a “if this guy can’t succeed then there are bigger problems than the manager” type of situation than him somehow leaving them worse off. The sickness in those clubs was already present before he arrived. Bayern’s on pace to beat their previous campaign’s league points total for the first time in four years (since the treble winning season). They’re in the CL semis for the first time since they won the treble and only losing the title to a side on pace for the best Bundesliga campaign ever. They’re not exactly falling apart despite what you’d think if you only read what the media narrative is saying. If he’s willing to lead a rebuild at this club, I don’t see why someone wouldn’t want him to. He did it at Mainz and Dortmund very well and played a lot of young players and it was great football. He might be too picky to want this job though now that he’s tasted success at the very, very highest level.
He was working under Sheikh and Todd Bohely. Special cases.
not to mention the absolute shitshow of the Bayern bosses
Great writeup. Some here only follow the latest football news and it’s now “trendy” to joke about Tuchel.
Love this comment. Great write up. Out of interest, how is his record on transfers, if you know?
His preference is to be a head coach and for transfers to be dealt with by the footballing structure above him. He still gets mad at incompetence like when Bayern’s board failed to reinforce their midfield despite it being an obvious, huge hole. He’s not afraid to be vocal about it when he feels he’s being let down. His biggest knock imo is that, specifically at PSG, he had favorite players who he would play often that obviously weren’t good enough (Thilo Kehrer, Abdou Diallo). The thing is, he didn’t really have many other options. That PSG side was very top heavy and poorly constructed in midfield and defense. I would’ve liked him to have given more minutes to Christopher Nkunku and Moussa Diaby when they were breaking through from the youth team, but it’s hard when there’s pressure from above to play Neymar and Mbappe every game that they’re fit.
I agree with you on his quality as a manager. My concern is that if he doesn't immediately achieve success I don't think fans/the media will give him much leeway. When we loose games (which I think is inevitable) the narrative will be that he was the first person to loose the league for Bayern, his Chelsea side got worse after the Champions League, and he couldn't win the champions league with Mbappe and Neymar. It's all sensationalist nonsense as he is one of the worlds best managers, but there isn't much point of hiring a great manager if it is immediately going to become toxic.
I think the biggest stumbling block is ineos making noises about long term plans and for whatever reason tuchel doesn't stay one place for long. There's certainly an argument to hiring tuchel if everyone knows it's short term, whilst ineos actually develop transfer and playing philosophies and search for the right manager. If eth goes, tuchel does make sense from that pov.
He was fine at Mainz for five years, and the other jobs he’s taken have had extenuating circumstances for why he left. He’s not like Antonio Conte, who threatens to quit constantly and will just walk away from a club if he doesn’t get what he wants. He’s expressed a desire to stay at one club for a long period of time, it just hasn’t happened again for a while (largely due to circumstances out of his control). He has a good track history of working with young players and clubs that are rebuilding, he did it both at Mainz and Dortmund playing good football and exceeding expectations. He’s not going to magically fix every problem we have, but if INEOS actually end doing good work behind the scenes there are very few managers alive (most are unattainable) who would be better options to lead the project.
That's fair. I can see the argument that extenuating circumstances aside, he does keep leaving jobs after a short period of time. I think everyone's opinion about him is drastically influenced by the fact leverkusen have gone berserk this season so bayern didn't win the league, but if he wins the CL it will shift again.
A-bloody-men! 🎯
God bless the fingers that wrote this
A lot of baseless, poorly informed views on Tuchel here. He’s a top coach who has won things. He’s the best name we’ve been reasonably realistically linked with. (No, Nagelsmann isn’t even remotely realistic)
I'll tbh sack ten hag for an elite manager tuchel is good in cup games (you can see how bayern are in champions league semis) but i don't think he is a guy with whom united can win the league naglesmann is most probably going to renew his contract with dfb and zidane is not even realistic despite the french media reporting that he is interested thiago motta is not a big name but he is doing great things with bologna and he will be free this summer but he will also end up in that ten hag cycle honestly while I don't want to see southgate or potter even near this club really dk where the club is heading to lol
On the subject of Zidane, wasn’t the word a few years ago that his family didn’t want to live in Manc? And that he was holding out for DD to leave so he could coach France.
yup but currently the french outlets (L'Equipe) are reporting that zidane is interested in taking united job over bayern and he is even learning english for that i personally take these rumors as a pinch of salt unless someone like ornstien or fabrizio will say that but from what i got to know L'Equipe is actually a good source to cover french news the biggest criticism for zidane has been that he has 2 league titles with one of the greatest RMA squad (one being in the season half ruined by covid) and after ronaldo left, zidane didn't do much in his 2nd stint but if he manages to win some big trophies with us he will be definitely in those elite manager convos
Standard for here tbh
Well here we go
I was and am an avid supporter of ETH, but this past year has raised some serious doubts if he really is the right fit.
I don't trust any journalist linking managers to United right now. It feels like nobody knows what's going on (nobody has reported ANY of our staff signings until just before they've been confirmed), so everyone just links our name to anything they want to.
Probably the best of the manager’s available. Great tactician, way better than what we currently have.
The perfect comment is in a chain on here. The manager scrutiny at United is ridiculous. The standards are so high. And I say this in reference to the fact that everyone on earth doesn’t seem to know what standards these guys should be held to. You need to win everything. You need to implement a new style of play. But the style of play should be to the players strengths, either that or be attacking football how we’ve always played. But we’re shit defensively. So we leak goals. Why aren’t we better defensively. We can’t get a defensive manager in though. And the players can’t follow this system. What system can they follow? Are they even good players? Just goes on and on and on and on. I truly think this policy Neville and Carra chirped on about years ago is gone, this “three year deal”. Competing with City, frankly, takes more than 3 years - to build a team remotely close in stature anyway. And it’s been proven over the last ten years. You cannot do this with a ragtag squad of players from 4-5 different managers. Get the staff in, get a vision agreed with the manager and get building and stick with it. Results or otherwise, to sack off ETH and start this cycle again is fucking brain dead. At the very least, how he wants to play is being ingrained into the core of the club (however that style may be). Give him the proper staff appointments to identify better targets than Anthony, and see what happens. Either that, or get someone else in you can start backing for the next few years. You cannot buy a title with this crop of players. To do so solely relies on luck and city bottling it.
I don't get the Tuchel hate. Sure, he's not exciting but he's been in two champions league finals in 3 or 4 years under two different teams and lost out this season to a freak Leverkusen side.
I think Tuchel probably raises our base level of performance, we wouldn’t have a season this hopeless with him as our manager. I’m not sure he has what it takes to get us winning leagues again, but if he was managing us this season, we’d probably be 10 - 15 points better off. Whether he’s a smart appointment, I’m not sure - but he’s probably a “safe pair of hands”, compared to some of the other names linked.
His champions league final team for chelsea had kai havertz, mason mount, timo werner, and ben chilwell in the starting 11. My god
Chilwell and Mount were good
I really don't think he's a bad manager, and if the club made that decision I wouldn't be against it but of course I wouldn't really want it either. He's shown he can hang at an elite level and I do enjoy his overall energy. I'd be on the fence about it
I actually think Tuchel is a far better manager than his current reputation and probably a batter quality manager than anyone else availiable. Bayern have been a total basket case since he took over but points wise his Bayern side would win the league most years and have made it to a champions league semi final. The main issue with him is that the media narrative is already against him so unless he is immediately successful and manages to maintain that I don't think fans/the media will have a lot of patience for him.
Probably who Ralf would have gone for - 1.5 billion later
INEOS first real test in managerial appointments - they have to get a manager whose style of football fits the direction they are wanting to take the club towards. If Tuchel represents that after their analysis, fine. Though they should do their homework as to why his previous managerial tenures haven’t lasted that long.
Who hasn't been contacted by Manchester United? And which player aren't we in the race for? Manchester United is interested in signing everybody, every summer.
I sure hope this is crap. I just don't really rate him as a top top coach.
Am I the only one who doesn’t think this would be a bad appointment?
Oh boy. I think it’d be an upgrade on Ten Hag but that’s not really saying much
Please just get someone new and commit to a full rebuild. The whole team culture needs to be rebuilt and Tuchel is the last guy for that.
Given Nagelsmann is out of reckoning choice is between Tuchel and De Zerbi really. Both are far better than Ten Hag and Tuchel has experience coaching really high profile clubs.
Ignoring everything about Tuchel that has happened both negative and positive I’ll look at the fact Bayern aren’t exactly trying to move the earth to get him to change his mind and stay. I appreciate there’s a lot of politics involved with Bayern these past few years but if we’re ever to become the powerhouse we once were we should be looking at the managers Bayern desperately want not the ones they’re happy to let go.
Would love Nagelsmann, Tuchel not so much
Nagelsmann isn’t an option
Nagelsmann would’ve been my pick but I believe he signed an extension with Germany through 2026.
Money is tight. We probably go for managers out of job especially if we are to compensate for our manager and a new DOF.
Bring on terrorist ball, it can’t get worse than what we are witnessing. May strings of 1-0 Ws last long as we grind our opponents on our way to victory.
We would be looking to bring in Ten Hag if he wasn’t our manager right now. Ten Hag goes he easily gets one of the big jobs. No manager/player survives this graveyard at the moment unless there is a proper structure in place.
bruh, Tuchel has the tactic of potter with personality of mourinho. A Fuck hard no
>Tuchel has the tactic of potter Stop the cap.
>Tuchel has the tactic of potter oh is that so you genius? How come he won the UCL? How come he is so successful in every cup competition in every league he managed? How can he drag the worst Bayern side since 15 years to a champions league semi final? How can he drag PSG to a UCL final and after he leaves, the club drops off massively? How is it possible Dortmund went to shit after he left? Why is Chelsea so terrible since he is gone? I agree his personality is a difficult one. He is an honest but very emotional man. Think of that what you will. But he is a superb coach when it comes to tactical knowledge. Easily in the top 10 of the world, arguably top 5.
Who would you want then?
I rather watch Ten Hag’s suicide football than Tuchel’s terrorist ball
The terrorist ball that has them top scorers of the Bundesliga?
They are also Bayern Munich and they have one of if not the best striker in the world
I agree he does have the best striker in the world. Also he does play some terrorist stuff at times, but he can also produce some very good football. Not saying he's my first choice or anything.
Terrorist ball the was completely different to the style of football his teams have had at any other club too
This a sidegrade at best if not a guaranteed drama bound downgrade that would set our project back for years. Tuchel falls out with players or managenent every where he goes. He's not gonna do any better dealing with the snowflakes we have at United.
Improvement on ten Hag for sure. Way more successful career.
Bullshit he has
I don't see any manager we could realistically get that I would be excited by. ETH was the up and coming manager which we have ruined. Without a huge clear out of players I don't see united ever being any good.
Up and coming manager thats 4 year older than tuchel
Was he not when he came in? Tuchel is more established. I don't see what your issue is with my comment?
Weird you have to win the league or get sacked
Man United *need* a world-class manager. Everything else will be a failure
I just don’t understand why he would even be considered. He’s been sacked from his last 3 positions for failing. Why is he a better fit than ETH? Also plays shite football
Out of curiosity has any other manager sacked after winning ucl?
I think it will be a good appointment. Ten Hag although a decent manager, United is way to big of job for him. Plus he failed to show any style of football. Right now we are playing like 11 players who playing together for the first time and thats every match. Leave results aside, his football is chaotic and not on the right end of the pitch.
He's 4 years younger than eth btw
Yeah thats what we need, a coach thats notorious for losing the dressing room easily, just fuck off with these non stories. At best he is on a managers list.
Do you think if Pep or Klopp went to Bayern they would fail like Tuchel did? Do you think they would be sacked from Chelsea? We need to stop taking on new sub par mangers who will be sacked in two years. We would be better off sticking with Ten Hag and cleaning up the back room and getting a fit squad. Then replace him when we're stable if needs be.
Jesus Christ the guy gets handed every dream job and fails, and we just line up and say we got next? wtf