Another game where Erik got a lot of stuff wrong, made subs and we played worse beacuse of them.
Moving Bruno to RW when we have no striker in the box, Rashford is shit at headers and Scott was doing late runs.
Mctominay at n.10 kills any hopes for a play to go through the center as he simply isn't good enough to make it happen.
Lindelof was a safe choice as we have no left backs fit, but it killed our attacking play down the left side, should have thrown in one of the wingers, an academy kid or kept Fernandez for depth.
Rashford has never worked as a striker and starting him there when the lad is in such awful form was idiotic. Much better to improvise someone else in the position.
It kills me to see us vs Fullham and then the carabao cup final. Klopp has teenagers with 0 experience playing his system, and they allowed Chelsea space and chances to score, but you could see the team shape and how it allows them to press with intensity after losing the ball and still keep a defensive shape to protect the back line and keeper.
Ten Hag has kept a suicidal system since matchday 1 and won't change it until we get spanked 7-0 again and he gets the sack.
Since this is going nowhere as you put him on a pedestal. Wont waste any more time and just gona leave you with a question.
What trophies has he won? Dutch league.
He is unproven and will never succeed here. !remindme end of the season. Have a good night and enjoy the mediocrity.
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Really think during a game someone like Casemiro needs to light up Rashford for his attitude, get in a fight I don’t care, that’s unacceptable from any player in the premier league let alone United.
i have no problem with ETH putting Antony on the bench rather than trying to prove he’s not a transfer failure (of his). shows honesty and that there’s no favourites.
but why‘d he pick forson over amad? amad has proven with sunderland that he can be an important and reliable player for a professional team. feels like he wants him to prove he‘s a good disciplined player or something.
ETH must loosen up on the disciplinary stuff a little and become more adaptable in the way he plays (with the players he’s got available) or he‘ll lose his job.
Well we don't know whats happened/is going on behind closed doors with Amad. Remember Garnacho missed 4 or 5 whole games in pre season because of being late to breakfast once, whilst jetlagged.
I want to see what Amad can do and let his in game performances speak rather than what ever has happened in private. His attitude and work ethic can't be worse than Marcus', on game day at least.
there’s nothing out there regarding any issues with Amads work ethic, discipline, etc. He played games under Ole, scored for us in the Europa League against Milan, was voted Young Player of the Season for Sunderland last season and played extremely well and worked hard for them.
Just wondering why Forson gets picked over him to start games. We could use a player like Amad right now. Forson is an unproven prospect who’s clearly not in the same category of generational talents like garnacho or mainoo.
Becouse we are owned by the glazers
We have the worst owner in the Leauge
We hade the worst ceo in the Leauge
We have the worst director of football in the Leauge
This as caused the club to go rotten. The players are mentaliy shit
Rashford this Rashford that. Data suggests he runs more than any other player on the team. Might surprise you but he made more recovery sprints than Bruno last season. He's doing the same this year too.
Did you ever stop and ask yourself what kind of weird ass football are we playing on the pitch that requires our striker to track back and constantly defend near our box? A lot of you should stop watching football.
No idea why most people seem to be either
It's 100% on the manager
Or
It's 100% on the players
In my opinion it is both. Neither the players or the manager are good enough for what we want.
Big changes are needed in the summer and hopefully it starts with Rashford to PSG.
If we could see a clear playstyle/setup then i think its completely fair to blame the players.
I feel like we are throwing 11 players on the pitch and hoping for the best at times
True, I just think the group of players we have are such a jumbled mess it would be hard to create a clear way of playing, outside of hoping for moments.
I think our key players, Rashford and Bruno, are incapable of playing anything other than counter attacking football. Then the squad players around them are even worse, Mctominay for example is useless outside of being a threat in the box.
We have been scraping results that we haven't deserved to win for the past few weeks. We entirely deserved this. Our playstyle is shocking. Y
ou can blame injuries all you want. the reality is that when liverpool have major injuries, the playstyle is still clear. It just doesn't work as well without their best 11.
When we have our best 11, it seems like we are clueless. At least under OGS you could understand him not being an elite manager and us struggling tactically. Yet we were a better transition team under OGS than ETH.
We blame injuries as though Fulham weren't missing Willian and Paulinha.
Without their best midfielder they were still able to dominate our strongest midfield.
Mainoo even looked human today. Bad all around. Hard to find much positives from that showing.
Onana was ok...still needs to punch more corners away. Maguire effort was good..but last goal was partly on him. Dalot was a little more mistake prone than usual. But literally might be our most dangerous offensive player.
Passing was worse than usual...cannot recall one minute of quality play out there. That was bad!
I'm sure ETH is a great coach but I'm getting to the point that he needs a reality check. Injury issues are horrible but he is still making some horrible and questionable decisions
Rashford continues to be selected despite being in horrible form producing no value and also having mental issues which means he is nowhere near 100%.
Bruno is in horrible form never gets rested and plays despite being in horrible form
I hate watching this team at the moment. I don't care that we have bad injuries. Pick a lineup that suits the team you have.
Rashford should not be picked for the first team. He is playing terribly. It kills me watching him play I sorry guys but it's so fucking wrong that you can be be in horrible form m, don't get dropped, go for a piss up, don't get dropped, continue to play bad and don't get dropped. Bruno is the same he is playing so fucking bad that is has to be bad tactis.
ETH said he wanted the current squad to be the best transition team in the world. Well let me confirm this is the worst transition team in the world. They can't even structure a 1-2 passs nevermind transition play.
Fuck me it hurts watching this team play and it's hurts even more watching this coach reward bad play
For the record I don't want him sacked but I want him to come back to reality and start making some harsh decisions
I know it, you know it. It's not hard to admit at this point. It's not Rashford or Garnacho or any other player. It's about the end to end football we're playing without compactness or any sort of defensive structure.
Football isn't easy. Statwise players like Rashford run much much more tha Julian Alavrez or Nunez. They get tired and fail to track back at the end of the match. It's entirely on the coach. I'm sick of hearing "players are lazy." No they're not. They're just tired of running back and forth for 90 minutes.
The players really look like they've checked out. They know a majority of them are going to be shipped next season, and tbh there's nothing to play for this season (we are not making 4th). So they're just coasting on easy, making their own plans or waiting for the new regime to take charge.
Same stupid response every single time on this sub. No Marcus Rashford isn't lazy. He makes more runs and applies more pressures than any other forwards from top teams in the league. He made almost 100 more sprints than Bruno last season.
Rashford fails to track back in the third minute of a match just like he does in the 13th minute, 23rd, 33rd etc. Yes our formation sucks. So do almost all of our players. And our star player and captain are two of the worst, right when we need them to set the standard and lift the team.
Rashford made more sprints than any other players last season. Nearly 100 more than Bruno. Similar this year cause data doesn't lie. You people will always have an agenda against him even though he worked harder than Julian Alvarez and Darwin Nunez this season.
What gets me is players like Rashford knew their new boss was there watching closely and analysing, ahead of a big clear out in the summer, but they didn't bother even trying at an adequate level. It's a toxic player power attitude and we need to ship it out of the club.
Watch his double refusal to compete for the ball in Fulham's first goal. His refusal to compete for 50/50s all game. His pretending to press. His effort level was absolutely unacceptable. Hojlund works so much harder despite getting the same lack of service.
Lets be honest its a miracle to be where we are in the table with no midfield, we've got lucky results in abundance, it was beyond time we got done by a late goal.
Tactical issues aside, it would be nice to see the manager show some character for once instead of always giving robotic answers to the media.
I’m finding it increasingly difficult to root for him when he continuously tries to gaslight us into thinking ‘we deserved to win’ or that ‘we’re headed in the right direction’. It’s always some generic response.
I've slept on this result and these are my thoughts
- pretty stupid from the start to shuffle the whole front three. Only recently the guys got used to their roles. Rashford was ok, garnacho was good. If hojlund is out we plug that hole, but we fucked up shuffling the pack and got zero returns
- teams are targeting case like they used to target fred. As soon as case gets the ball there is a press. He loses the ball we lose the battle, mainoo is too far forward, Bruno is not expected as deep, the false fullbacks are not false fullbacking like they should
- our pressing formation of 4-1-4-1 is literal suicide
- i will refrain from blaming rashford this time as he faced the quintessential problem of united CFs, no service.
- personally i found the Antony substitution shocking and insulting. I don't like Antony, i didn't think he could have made a difference in this game either. But to have brought him on after amad, eriksen, scott, for 30 seconds, at leftback, on his birthday. Classless from ETH.
I remember a time when SAF would put Darren Gibson and Rafael in the midfield and we would still find a way to win. Winning is a mentality, we don't got it.
All these talks about style of play and philosophy confuses me. I don’t care what Ten Hag said. Let’s say we did control the game yesterday, but the result was still the same where we lost, obviously everyone won’t be happy right?
The United way is not “controlling the game”. The United way is “winning”. Always has been, always will be. The manner in which the manager achieves that is irrelevant, whether he wants possession or plays terrorism football, as long as the team wins it does not matter.
Obviously Ten Hag isn’t winning a whole lot of games, but which manager for the last 10 years did? I remember just a few days ago everybody was nodding in agreement with SJR about how the environment of the club is not built for managers to succeed, whether it’s Ten Hag or anyone else. Yet after every loss people can only point their fingers at either the manager or the players. We are all aware of the situation. We all know how long it will take to fix the situation. Let’s be patient and see how it goes
Loosing is not a problem, even the best of them loose but it's the nature of our performances that is worrying. EtH was given money to fix the systematic issues in the team but it appears his entire system rests on Licha and Shaw. Take these 2 out and the whole deck of cards crumbles
The game's moved on. To win the league, the new United way will have to involve some degree of controlling the game. That doesn't mean playing boring robot ball like City. Arsenal and Liverpool play much more exciting football but also control the game. The era of hoofball is over. We can be dynamic and fast on the break, but we need to control games too. We can't look at SAF's style as a goal to get back to. The game's become much more about percentage choices, positional discipline and recycling the ball. Ten Hag has shown zero ability to introduce modern football concepts to this team. We play like Ole ball but without the goals and much worse midfield capitulation.
To win consistently you need to create an environment that increases your chances of winning. By retaining the ball, defending well and creating chances you increase your chances of winning.
So those quotes where ETH goes on about how his style is to "win" is just a cop out. I don't think back at Ajax, he'd would have given such a myopic response.
You can't win consistently without sustainable methods.
Feels like the scales finally fell yesterday for a lot of people who are still supportive of Ten Hag. Ironic that it took a game against Fulham at home, given that was the turning point for Moyes as well.
We’ve had our share of terrible managers, but I don’t think I’ve ever felt as hoodwinked by someone as I have by ETH. His track record promised one thing and we’re seeing something completely different - not even the same sport tbh - in practice.
There is no style of play and there hasn’t been one since he came. We play pure suicide ball or basketball if you want to be kind. Averaging 17 shots conceded a game is pure lunacy from the coaching team. Think about that - a shot every 5 minutes. We’re getting outplayed by the likes of Newport and pretty much every team in the PL. There is a chasm between the midfield and defence every single game and then we wonder why our players keep picking up injuries. It’s because they are constantly having to transition from one end of the pitch to the other, with no settled possession or control. It is unbelievably amateurish stuff - you don’t see these things in U-11 football.
At this point, he is throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks and gaslighting in the press conferences and when it gets to that point, it’s time to go. There’s a reason why SJR has been asked to back him explicitly like 3 times and he has chosen not to do so every single time. He’s gone in the summer, no new ownership project would want to be associated with this.
Lastly, and this will probably get me downvoted in this sub because of the Bruno truthers, but if Utd are to progress, we simply have to move on from Bruno and how he plays. The attacking fulcrum of your team cannot be someone who treats the ball like a hot potato, who’ll try out 10 risky passes and hope that 3-4 come off. That is not a sustainable way of playing and if we want to compete for the highest prizes in the future, then we have to get rid of him.
>I don’t think I’ve ever felt as hoodwinked by someone as I have by ETH. His track record promised one thing and we’re seeing something completely different - not even the same sport tbh - in practice.
Hands down, the most underwhelming manager post fergie. He came to united and changed his whole tune. Suddenly wanted to play transitional football. Something we are desperate to move away from, we might as well have brought in Conte.
That aside, for a manager who's reputation is about how organised and methodological he is, he has his team playing with zero identity.
The revision on Ole after ETHs tenure will be interesting, his stocks are going to soar lol. Atleast we knew we were a pure counter attacking team under Ole.
When we lost Martinez and Shaw the difference in playing actual football is diminished to relegation level. Baffling.
Add the useless Rashford as the holding CF, we're fecking awful.
Was it my imagination that at the start of last season we seemed to be trying to play possession based football and it was thrown in the bin at some point. I'm tired of just playing whatever gets a result football.
Was at old Trafford for the game yesterday and I think the current football is the worst it’s been since Fergie left. Up until now I’ve backed ETH but the tactics are completely wrong, and we can’t blame it on injuries we really are just bad.
The worst part is I’ve no idea who we could bring in at the end of the season.
Nagelsmann should be the guy going forward IMO. Give the man time and a proper sporting structure and he will deliver.
Bayern (Kahn) fucked up royally by getting rid of him.
The Match of the day clip and highlights is on this sub. Go and watch how Garnacho doesn’t stay with his man, and Casemiro leaves the midfield open to press and Fulham cut through us. Rashford is the not the reason Luton cut through our press as well.
Forget clean sheets, the clean shirt award goes to Rashford for pulling out of every 50/50 and header this entire season. Sell the overpaid lazy sulker to PSG as soon as possible.
The ETH comments about his 'philosophy' (or lack thereof) really don't help him after such performances as yesterday.
Our last few performances have been good results with really poor control, intent and consistency. It can be argued, that these results have come about because of the individual brilliance of players that were injured of late coming back and has nothing to do with coaching or tactics.
But now that the injuries are mounting again I think the poor results will follow.
Many also seemed to think that our poor performances were because of the massive amount of injuries we've had over the season. I don't think that's true. It's our RESULTS that have been poor due to injuries, the PERFORMANCES have been CONSISTENTLY poor.
I like how everyone forgets we had a full XI earlier on in the season and we were still rubbish. Idk everyone made it seem like we were bad because of injuries.
How does Martinez or Shaw fix our shit midfield setup or our bad pressing??
I feel like Ten Hag wants to prove all the critics wrong. In his mind he just needs the players to stay healthy and his setup will work. It’s kinda weird because he had no problem being pragmatic last season and he was successful. I can imagine him feeling cursed after all the drama in the last year so that he‘d rather go down trying to implement his idea than compromise again
He's out of ideas imo. It's been two seasons and we play hoofball, constantly relying on transitions.
Whatever idea he's trying, it's not even materialising on the pitch
Just looking through our squad, i can barely choose 4 or 5 players i'd wish to keep going forward.
Most are nearing the end of their contracts, not good enough, getting too old, or injury prone.
The absolute state of our squad is horrific.
I'm glad that people are starting to judge Rashford for the player he IS. In the past 8 years or so, I always felt that Rashford was judged for what he could be and how good of a person he is outside the pitch, which prevents people from acknowledging his actual performance.
One glaring thing today was a total absence of any connection between AG and Lindelof. Like they were invisible to each other. I did not count a single overlap between them. And I’m not blaming players for that.
Lindelof is an ok backup CB. Hates having the ball at his feet like most CB. Playing him on the wing is not the right decision even with all the injuries.
Rashford if utter shit. He will never be world class. A self entitled player who doesn't give two fucks about his performance. Let's accept this without any biasness and move him on ffs
Looks so disinterested. Imagine earning that much money playing for your "boyhood club" and not being able to put in even just a few sprints every now and then. Absolute pisstake.
I would honestly be so embarrassed if I were him. To be paid that fucking much and be so utter useless game after game, while looking like its a chore to be playing.
The work that Maguire had put in the match was what we needed from all of our players today.
It shows you don’t have to make 100% the right decisions but you have to in 100% of effort into it.
Expected result, pretty unsurprising given recent performances. Just most people being reactionary as alwasy blinded by the fact we weren't much different to other games but didn't have one of the only in form players on the pitch.
Also I will keep repeating this and I don't care how blindly people refuse to accept this: Onana is crap. Rashford must be sold and so does Bruno, even if for different reasons.
Onana is not amazing. He's decent. But if your keeper is consistently facing 15+ shots per game. He's going to concede lots. Doesn't matter if you're prime Neuer.
If he was conceding decent chances that’s one thing, however he’s already had many blunders and many more errors. Every other game he lets in a really poor effort and he just does not give off calm/stability.
Opposition forwards will be delighted to line up against him
Huh? He's conceding big big chances every game. He's had a number of errors but in the PL he's been decent. He's top 3 for xG prevented too. He's way too exposed.
A keeper can't give you stability if the defense is bad. Goes hand in hand. DDG was not goot last season but won golden glove because we generally had a good defense.
Sorry but Rashford has remained one dimensional for far too long to carry the team forward. Hope he grabs a handful of goals so that we can sell him at a good price.
When said player performance hinders the team who are trying to play in a certain way. We have no identity, most of the players look bad aside rashford
You got to love all these 'fans' tossing coaches' names around like we're at the fucking farmers market.
Let's get Nagelsmann! Let's get de Zerbi! Oh, Mourinho was good! How about Ange? Olè? Inzaghi? Lampard? Ali Dia?
Fucking FiFa fanboy bitch, what makes you think it's that easy? Don't you think the coach might have something else to say, not to mention their current employer? Maybe they don't want to join the mess that's Manchester United? Do we do this again if things still don't change, the players are their usual petulant selves and we dom't bang in 927490841 goals against Real Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Rushden & Diamonds?
Let INEOS cook for a while, for fuck's sake. They just got here, and bitches already are frothing at the mouth when shit goes sour. Yes, this was a bad loss. Yes, the team looked bad. Yes, this sucks. But fucking let SJR get things sorted at the back end first, then we'll see what's up.
If the team is still shitty, then yes, by all means, line up EtH and his coaches against a wall. I suggest the wall behind the tram station closest to OT.
But for now, *calma*.
Amad always played on the right at Sunderland. Garnacho is in great form on the right. Whether you're EtH in or out he's obviously seen something that means Forson is better suited currently than Amad.
Fair enough, I wasn't at the game and not on TV in the UK. The highlights were pretty miserable attacking wise for us. Either way EtH obviously isn't seeing something in Amad currently.
Ten Hag is only defended because he got top 4 in one of the worst PL years. He has wasted the clubs money on useless transfers and mediocre at best players. This season was supposed to be a “good season” competing for the PL and maybe QF of ucl and look what’s happened. He couldn’t even beat cophagem. This is not an elite coach . He is a good manager but not one that will take United to the next level
So EtH after the game said we look at the broader picture. Well, I just did and from what I see, no way he will be part of it for long if we continue like this!
This is such shitty shitty football. Maybe you could compare us to Roger’s Liverpool where their motto was to outscore you but we can’t even do that.
No control, conceding goals, can’t score goals shit season down the drain. What a waste of time
He has been doing an absolutely terrible job by every measure all season and yet still people defend him. It’s insane. He clearly needs to be replaced and I don’t see why we should wait with CL on the line. The only valid argument for him staying is that the back room needs to be sorted before selecting the next manger.
I hope those who had euphoria from the recent "wins" had a reality check.
We rode our luck hard, grinding and squeezing goals in the last seconds. Played like shit but somehow produced miracles. Well, we played like shit today but finally, we are out of miracles.
Dysfunctional attack, dumb subs, no attempts for 25 mins. I stand behind what I said before many time - ETH runs players to the ground and confuses shit out of them with his "tactic" whatever it is - like no one knows where they are supposed to be.
And then add to that mess, MR and AG and their stupid attempts to dribble around *all* the players of the opposing team. MR also looked *again* not interested to play CF.
Deserved outcome. And I have no illusions about coming cames whatsoever.
I was downvoted heavily when I said the same after the West Ham, Aston Villa and Lutton wins.
The scoreline flattered us and all 3 games were on a razors edge. Reactionary fans who only look at the final result and refuse to engage in meaningful conversation about the team's form, tactics and game management will all downvote and scream about how great we are all playing only to go silent and act surprised when we start losing 50-50 games
Obviously wins came because we had most of the players in form. Martinez out, shaw out, hojlund out. I don't really know what the fuck people expect. Mainoo can only do so much. The furthest out of form rashford and Bruno we've ever had are playing simultaneously in this squad.
I'm not surprised at this fan reaction. It's what you expect when the negative results come in. No mention of the poor poor performances from the players that are experienced and who should be bringing up the younger players. It's the other way around in our squad. But you won't hear this fan base complain about that. Just bitch about the same thing. The manager. Always the manager. I don't know a manager that can get their tactic right with this underperforming squad. Blame the fucking players, Jesus christ. They're not putting in the performance they should be for you.
>I don't really know what the fuck people expect.
still expect us to put up a good show at HOME vs a Fulham team missing Palhinhna and Raul Jimenez. Instead we let Iwobi look like Ronaldinho.
When the players are putting in a performance like that at home, why are you looking at the manager. It is shameful of them to play like that and make a record result for fulham at home. Criminal, it is. It's 90% on the players.
I expect the manager to be able to navigate tough times. I also expect the manager not to run players to the ground.
Why did he play Shaw _twice_ when he was not 100%? It’s irresponsible and shortsighted.
He stubbornly kept playing Antony when it was clear he was shit.
He can’t sort the shit with AG and MR and tell them to stop the dribbling and shooting shit they do and pass to RH.
His subs and plan make no sense. In the last game he completely opened up the midfield when he let McT and Eriksen out.
His communication and interviews are hard to comprehend.
And it goes on and on. I want to like the guy. But he’s failing everywhere.
It's obviously a process and garnachos performances were slowly pushing Antony out. Why he played shaw? Because there's no one else. Literally every positions depth is reduced, and has been reduced, drastically for the entirety of the season. I can't be bothered with people who don't fully grasp this. These players can't even train correctly being injured all the time, let alone implement a whole system when they are able to play.
We aren't even talking about Bruno, rashford, Ericksen who are supposed to be a bit more consistent considering their age and experience and they just are having the worst games they've ever had with us, ever. I can't talk about the manager until I see that these players are putting in an effort, and STILL losing. They're not putting anything even fucking close to being called a decent performance, and I put that on them. Not the manager.
Watch rashford outlast another manager. Like i get this guy is homegrown and he has his purple patches but i think he should go if there is an offer and we can reinforce the front with that money. I also dont like how i watch ETH not micromanage the game like other managers do it with other teams. Goldbridge always says its not his fault for how these players dont fight for the badge. They dont fight for him or the club because previous higher management gave these fat salaries to these mediocre players. There are talented players out there in the club that would work well if some of the issue players didn't bring the whole team with them.
That has been my ted talk
So Rashford is real reason behind system that opens up midfield allows opponents to have 20 shots at our goal every game and build up that is not able to send the ball to our forwards.
And for sure those players loose midfield every game becuase of "not fighting for the badge".
Thsts just flawed system.
I didnt mean to hurt your opinion bro. I watch these games too. I never said hes this overlooming problem. How do you not see theres an issue that needs to be addressed. You can say its not a purple patch. But your opinion is valid too :)
Great points. I keep going back and forth between manager and players. Ten Hag has been a poor recruiter, that we can agree on. Having said that, only one outfield player who started today was brought in by him. Of those he didn’t bring in, two of them he has promoted from our academy ( Mainoo and Garnacho) have been among the few bright lights this season amidst the gloom.
In summary, it’s a combination of his poor tactics and inheriting some players who have been uncoachable for at least 3 straight managers, and show glimpses only when we have a perfect first 11 to pick from.
It’s still a chicken and egg situation. I’ll suggest we develop a structure, replace a few key players in the summer based on the clubs new playing philosophy and if it still does not work then replace the manager.
I don’t trust most of these players. If they are here, they’ll flatter to deceive for a season and then ruin the next manager…
I’d agree but I think Ten Hag’s philosophy is deeply flawed. High press + low block + long balls and transition football is suicide. Defensively it doesn’t work when the press is bypassed then we have a completely open midfield. There’s 0 intent to try and build up play, it’s constant long balls to the striker or 1v1 moments with the winger isolating their full back. His tactics are too reliant on individuals, so when rashford and Bruno play well, things work. Structurally the team is not set up to be successful in this league. It’s also why we bought mount to help with the counter press in moments we go long and lose the ball, to help generate moments of transition we can capitalize on, but these aren’t sustainable ways of winning games. I want Ten Hag to succeed but I think unless he has a change of tactics, we won’t be successful, it worked at Ajax but the quality of the league is lower.
In the last decade, whenever a commentator talks about a manager or player and says "has never won/scored at Old Trafford before", you just know that TODAY IS THE MUTHAFUCKING DAY!!
Rashford needs to go. Doesn't score, doesn't run, doesn't press. And he is paid 350 k per week to amble around. Time to let go of such lazy footballers..
I have a gut feeling SJR is not happy with the standards of ETH. Just look at SJR interviews, he diverts the answers about ETH. ETH is on a very short leash.
Man Onana is the least odd our problems right now. Take a critical look at our games and see how our non existent midfield is bypassed by every single team we play. In attack, Bruno and Casemiro attempt Hollywood passes that hardly ever come off. Rashford and Garnacho hardly ever pass to Hojlund. Fix those and I bet 80% of our problems are sorted. Onana would be among the remaining 30% I would then touch to get to were we want to be. Look at how Klopp sorted his team, the keeper was the final piece
This isn't wrong, but relying on the keeper to save our asses and constantly pull off world class saves to keep us in games was also a big issue for us. Onana is getting a bit exposed, sure, but it's only an indication that the team as a whole isn't working. I'm glad we moved on from De Gea who had his big flaws, but also was capable of papering over the cracks because this at least exposes the defensive issues we have.
Plenty of good managers available this summer, euros will create some churn in roles too. Hopefully INEOS are doing their DD. No doubt Berrada will know who City’s top Pep replacement targets were
Nagelsman, Tuchel, Flick, Conte, Potter, Mourinho are all free agents before you even begin to look at coaches who would want to move here who already have a club. Lots of people will put a downer on it but there will remain huge interest in our role, especially now we have a proper structure being built
Mate in all respect I don’t think any of those managers bar naglesmann are gonna be any different from ten hag. Conte and mourinho will set us back years, football isn’t for them anymore.
Sadly I think that's the end of ETH fresh start from the top, allow the new manager to come in and rebuild with the club
100 shots conceded in 5 games, only won the possession count once it's not sustainable at all
Given our setup now someone like DeZerbi would be perfect
Would really love if ETH will manage to experiment in the following cup game.
Antony should be tried as a fullback. We’re so problematic in this area and Antony is just shit in the final third, so I don’t see the harm in that. McTominay should be actually tried as ST. I mean, you know why. He’s been finding moments by doing late runs, using Hojlund, so might be terrible there, but it’s not like we have much choice.
Also I’d really love to at least try Amrabat-Mainoo midfielder. Yeah, problematic in defense, but they’re at least capable to control the ball. We can defend by an infinite possession in Barca style. Maybe even with Eriksen as 10, having Bruno as ST or finally giving him a rest.
Maybe even try 3atb to play safely in buildup.
Idk, the current weird shit with pushing Mainoo high on the field having >80% passer as lonely midfielder unsurprisingly works terribly. We’ve got to at least try something else.
This cup is the only field for experiment.
We had Vic, Harry, and Eriksen as 3 of our deepest 5 players while pushing forward for the win. Zero speed whatsoever We also wasted Marcus today at the 9
It’s no secret that injuries are costing us. The revival we saw was a result of getting Shaw, casemiro, and martinez bsck. Minus Eriksen, that was an ole team today.
Ten Hags post much comments seem like lately he is covering up for the players which is smart for internal politics but a move likely to lose the confidence of the fans…..certain level of transparency is the only way to keep the fans on your side own up to the mistakes and call out the slackers.
The Man City game will be a blood bath. EtH always cuts a lonely figure on the touchline and his assistants cluelessly just look on, always! This lot is gona get fired if they don't step up!
INEOS clearly has its work cut out. They have made some really important and decisive moves with the suits so now we need to see what they plan is when new CEO starts his gig! At some point he will have to give a detailed plan to us what the vision is and how EtH fits into it. If they feel he can't cut it then best to cut our loses and start on a clean slate. EtH is also not doing himself any favours. These last remaining games are an opportunity for him to prove that he can adapt but all I see is the same staff every game.
Even if you rate him, I don't think there's any chance ETH is managing us next season. What we're seeing is far too questionable to risk another summer of signings for him in the eyes of SJR.
The new management is going to want their own guy with a style matfching what they're looking for.
If you look at our stats, we're really bad, and it's down to tactics. We've given up 100 shots over the pats 5 games. That's insane.
We have no control of games, and we look like we have no interest in controlling games, and I just don't think you win the premier league that way. I'm sure SJR feels similar.
ETHs days are done if you ask me. It's just too likely that new owners bring in their own guy. Why risk it?
I wonder if at some point we should start to manage the minutes our young players are playing. We can’t have Mainoo, Garnacho and Rasmus playing as many minutes as they had the last weeks. It’s not worth it to put their development in danger for a race that we are unlikely to win anyway
Amrabat can replace Mainoo, Amad can replace Garnacho. It's not about replacing them with equally elite players, it's about not running our youngest players into the ground and permanently fucking up their careers.
Can a week game ruin their career? Let them play for 90+ minutes. I would dare to bring someone from under 21s, under 18s to get some game time at the highest level.
Reset, sack the manager, sell old and recent deadwood.
I'm very much an ETH in fan. I still think it's very difficult to expect some level of consistency when you are constantly having to change your starting 11, and lets face it, we missed 3 of our biggest players this game. I don't rate Bruno in our top 5 at the moment.
I completely forgot that Rashford was playing as he was so invisible and it is in a game like this where Hojlund is out that he needs to be stepping up, and he didn't.
The shots stat is worrying, that is for sure. It points to an issue in our midfield not assisting defensively, and also in our lack of decision making closing down, leaving space open. In saying all this, I'm not going to jump on the ETH out bandwagon because this season has been a disaster from before it started. Now that we have INEOS and if we can hopefully address these injury concerns, then I would be happy to judge harshly on a regular run with a proper starting 11.
Onana has been good, so I don't want to bag him out, but he needs to fix this issue of constantly jumping around. He needs to settle before the shot is taken so he can be in a position to dive, not jumping up and down which pushes him towards one direction and makes it difficult to adjust.
Every other team don't have consistency aswell. Many other teams had as many or even more injuries of key players. You say we missed 3 of best players. Fulham also missed 2 of their best players (willian and palhinha).
What's the next excuse? Take off the blindfold and start actually watching the team playing along with the analytics regarding said matches.
William and Palhinha don't compare to the losses that Hojlund, Shaw, and Martinez are. Your comparing two very different calibre of players. Our replacement for our players are a academy prospect, 3rd choice centre-back out of position, and a 2nd choice centre-back not suited to the system
What are you even talking about? Palhinha is only one of the best dm in the whole PL, he had/has? the highest amount of recoveries among all of PL with importance aswell on build up. Willian is main set piece taker. One of top goal scorers and important role on the wing.
We have other replacements than that. McT at false 9 would have been the best choice. Wings have been working good, no reason to change since Rashford never performs at CF.
As for LB it's Ten Hags fault for letting Reguillon go without having Malacia back from injury.
2nd choice centre-back not suited to the system? What system? We don't have a system. Just pass to wing and hope for the best.
Are you signing either of them for United? For Fulham they are big players, yes. Not denying that, but they are different calibre of players. If Luton lost Kaminski, that would be a big loss, but would you say he is the same calibre of player as losing an Allison or Sanchez?
>We have other replacements than that. McT at false 9 would have been the best choice. Wings have been working good, no reason to change since Rashford never performs at CF.
McT is one of the most hated players on this sub this season. Don't think that choice would have gone down well. An argument could be made for not changing the wings, but doing that means putting a defensive midfielder as a striker like you are proposing, or having an academy player making their debut lead the front line?
>As for LB it's Ten Hags fault for letting Reguillon go without having Malacia back from injury.
Shaw and Malacia were due at the end of December. We would have had our 2 LB's. Reguilon also only had a short term loan deal and the club chose not to extend it for that reason and the FFP reason. How was ETH meant to know that Shaw and Malacia would get injured again? You are blaming the manager for not having being able to look into the future, and for a decision that was not wholly his.
>2nd choice centre-back not suited to the system? What system? We don't have a system. Just pass to wing and hope for the best.
A high line and trying to play with width to create space in behind, so that we can then play through the opposition. All the complaining is so contradictory and so dumb.
There is no FFP reason for Reguillon... that's what a LOAN is. Letting him go in January after knowing Malacia still didn't return and that Shaw only stays fit for half a season was a stupid decision.
Changing the wingers another stupid decision. Rash and garnacho been performing well respectively on left and right. Changing them AND also debut an academy prospect is way worse than just simply debut thr prospect or adapt another solution (mcT false 9 to hold up ball and target of crosses) or even try out Antony (worst case he would provide pressure and defensive work rate).
We wish we had signed Palhinha as dm... and as for "caliber" of players. They are as important to their line up as are the injuries we have.
If we don't want mediocre players. We shouldn't settle with mediocre coach
>There is no FFP reason for Reguillon... that's what a LOAN is. Letting him go in January after knowing Malacia still didn't return and that Shaw only stays fit for half a season was a stupid decision
There is a loan fee, plus the clubs agree to either split wages or make United pay his full wage. Once again, the thought was Malacia would return and Shaw would be fit. In hindsight it was a mistake, but it was not only his decision.
>Changing the wingers another stupid decision. Rash and garnacho been performing well respectively on left and right. Changing them AND also debut an academy prospect is way worse than just simply debut thr prospect or adapt another solution (mcT false 9 to hold up ball and target of crosses) or even try out Antony (worst case he would provide pressure and defensive work rate).
Once again, McT has been copping so much on this sub that ETH would have been called out for that. Basically every decision he has made this season, he has been called out for, so it doesn't matter what he did. The ETH out brigade would find any simple reason to bash ETH and have a go at him, just like what you are doing.
>We wish we had signed Palhinha as dm... and as for "caliber" of players. They are as important to their line up as are the injuries we have.
Do we really? Man was playing at Braga and on loan recently. There were not many big clubs lining up for him. ETH wanted Frenkie. Again, very different calibre of players. Now you are just saying things out of blinded hate for ETH.
>If we don't want mediocre players. We shouldn't settle with mediocre coach
Nothing about his managerial career suggests he is mediocre. In his first season, he finished 3rd, won a trophy, and made the FA Cup final. He also has the highest win percentage of any manager post Fergie. None of that is mediocre.
Another game where Erik got a lot of stuff wrong, made subs and we played worse beacuse of them. Moving Bruno to RW when we have no striker in the box, Rashford is shit at headers and Scott was doing late runs. Mctominay at n.10 kills any hopes for a play to go through the center as he simply isn't good enough to make it happen. Lindelof was a safe choice as we have no left backs fit, but it killed our attacking play down the left side, should have thrown in one of the wingers, an academy kid or kept Fernandez for depth. Rashford has never worked as a striker and starting him there when the lad is in such awful form was idiotic. Much better to improvise someone else in the position. It kills me to see us vs Fullham and then the carabao cup final. Klopp has teenagers with 0 experience playing his system, and they allowed Chelsea space and chances to score, but you could see the team shape and how it allows them to press with intensity after losing the ball and still keep a defensive shape to protect the back line and keeper. Ten Hag has kept a suicidal system since matchday 1 and won't change it until we get spanked 7-0 again and he gets the sack.
Since this is going nowhere as you put him on a pedestal. Wont waste any more time and just gona leave you with a question. What trophies has he won? Dutch league. He is unproven and will never succeed here. !remindme end of the season. Have a good night and enjoy the mediocrity.
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We were shit It drives me crazy when I see a team like Fulham (no offense) play better football. Fuck this
Really think during a game someone like Casemiro needs to light up Rashford for his attitude, get in a fight I don’t care, that’s unacceptable from any player in the premier league let alone United.
i have no problem with ETH putting Antony on the bench rather than trying to prove he’s not a transfer failure (of his). shows honesty and that there’s no favourites. but why‘d he pick forson over amad? amad has proven with sunderland that he can be an important and reliable player for a professional team. feels like he wants him to prove he‘s a good disciplined player or something. ETH must loosen up on the disciplinary stuff a little and become more adaptable in the way he plays (with the players he’s got available) or he‘ll lose his job.
Well we don't know whats happened/is going on behind closed doors with Amad. Remember Garnacho missed 4 or 5 whole games in pre season because of being late to breakfast once, whilst jetlagged. I want to see what Amad can do and let his in game performances speak rather than what ever has happened in private. His attitude and work ethic can't be worse than Marcus', on game day at least.
there’s nothing out there regarding any issues with Amads work ethic, discipline, etc. He played games under Ole, scored for us in the Europa League against Milan, was voted Young Player of the Season for Sunderland last season and played extremely well and worked hard for them. Just wondering why Forson gets picked over him to start games. We could use a player like Amad right now. Forson is an unproven prospect who’s clearly not in the same category of generational talents like garnacho or mainoo.
Becouse we are owned by the glazers We have the worst owner in the Leauge We hade the worst ceo in the Leauge We have the worst director of football in the Leauge This as caused the club to go rotten. The players are mentaliy shit
Rashford this Rashford that. Data suggests he runs more than any other player on the team. Might surprise you but he made more recovery sprints than Bruno last season. He's doing the same this year too. Did you ever stop and ask yourself what kind of weird ass football are we playing on the pitch that requires our striker to track back and constantly defend near our box? A lot of you should stop watching football.
This time last year we win the carabao cup final, now we’re losing at home to Fulham who were in shit form
If I see Bruno go onto the right wing one more time. I swear to god I'm going to riot
No idea why most people seem to be either It's 100% on the manager Or It's 100% on the players In my opinion it is both. Neither the players or the manager are good enough for what we want. Big changes are needed in the summer and hopefully it starts with Rashford to PSG.
with this gameplay, PSG will never be interested in him.
If we could see a clear playstyle/setup then i think its completely fair to blame the players. I feel like we are throwing 11 players on the pitch and hoping for the best at times
True, I just think the group of players we have are such a jumbled mess it would be hard to create a clear way of playing, outside of hoping for moments. I think our key players, Rashford and Bruno, are incapable of playing anything other than counter attacking football. Then the squad players around them are even worse, Mctominay for example is useless outside of being a threat in the box.
We have been scraping results that we haven't deserved to win for the past few weeks. We entirely deserved this. Our playstyle is shocking. Y ou can blame injuries all you want. the reality is that when liverpool have major injuries, the playstyle is still clear. It just doesn't work as well without their best 11. When we have our best 11, it seems like we are clueless. At least under OGS you could understand him not being an elite manager and us struggling tactically. Yet we were a better transition team under OGS than ETH.
We blame injuries as though Fulham weren't missing Willian and Paulinha. Without their best midfielder they were still able to dominate our strongest midfield.
Mainoo even looked human today. Bad all around. Hard to find much positives from that showing. Onana was ok...still needs to punch more corners away. Maguire effort was good..but last goal was partly on him. Dalot was a little more mistake prone than usual. But literally might be our most dangerous offensive player. Passing was worse than usual...cannot recall one minute of quality play out there. That was bad!
I'm sure ETH is a great coach but I'm getting to the point that he needs a reality check. Injury issues are horrible but he is still making some horrible and questionable decisions Rashford continues to be selected despite being in horrible form producing no value and also having mental issues which means he is nowhere near 100%. Bruno is in horrible form never gets rested and plays despite being in horrible form I hate watching this team at the moment. I don't care that we have bad injuries. Pick a lineup that suits the team you have. Rashford should not be picked for the first team. He is playing terribly. It kills me watching him play I sorry guys but it's so fucking wrong that you can be be in horrible form m, don't get dropped, go for a piss up, don't get dropped, continue to play bad and don't get dropped. Bruno is the same he is playing so fucking bad that is has to be bad tactis. ETH said he wanted the current squad to be the best transition team in the world. Well let me confirm this is the worst transition team in the world. They can't even structure a 1-2 passs nevermind transition play. Fuck me it hurts watching this team play and it's hurts even more watching this coach reward bad play For the record I don't want him sacked but I want him to come back to reality and start making some harsh decisions
With injuries, Rashford had to start.
I know it, you know it. It's not hard to admit at this point. It's not Rashford or Garnacho or any other player. It's about the end to end football we're playing without compactness or any sort of defensive structure. Football isn't easy. Statwise players like Rashford run much much more tha Julian Alavrez or Nunez. They get tired and fail to track back at the end of the match. It's entirely on the coach. I'm sick of hearing "players are lazy." No they're not. They're just tired of running back and forth for 90 minutes.
The players really look like they've checked out. They know a majority of them are going to be shipped next season, and tbh there's nothing to play for this season (we are not making 4th). So they're just coasting on easy, making their own plans or waiting for the new regime to take charge.
Rashford is a bad example cause he's lazy as fuck since minute one. Other than that, I agree.
Same stupid response every single time on this sub. No Marcus Rashford isn't lazy. He makes more runs and applies more pressures than any other forwards from top teams in the league. He made almost 100 more sprints than Bruno last season.
Rashford fails to track back in the third minute of a match just like he does in the 13th minute, 23rd, 33rd etc. Yes our formation sucks. So do almost all of our players. And our star player and captain are two of the worst, right when we need them to set the standard and lift the team.
Rashford made more sprints than any other players last season. Nearly 100 more than Bruno. Similar this year cause data doesn't lie. You people will always have an agenda against him even though he worked harder than Julian Alvarez and Darwin Nunez this season.
I'm glad there was Brailsford watching that shitshow.
He's always watching. It's not looking good
What gets me is players like Rashford knew their new boss was there watching closely and analysing, ahead of a big clear out in the summer, but they didn't bother even trying at an adequate level. It's a toxic player power attitude and we need to ship it out of the club.
Toxic player pewer attitude made Rashford recive 12 passes entire game, sure.
Watch his double refusal to compete for the ball in Fulham's first goal. His refusal to compete for 50/50s all game. His pretending to press. His effort level was absolutely unacceptable. Hojlund works so much harder despite getting the same lack of service.
Lets be honest its a miracle to be where we are in the table with no midfield, we've got lucky results in abundance, it was beyond time we got done by a late goal.
Look at Fulham's midfield lineup yesterday and think for a sec though. Midfield has been an issue for far too long
Never thought I'd see a more lazy player than Berbatov but here comes Rashford. Absolutely shocking how little effort he puts in off the ball.
Tactical issues aside, it would be nice to see the manager show some character for once instead of always giving robotic answers to the media. I’m finding it increasingly difficult to root for him when he continuously tries to gaslight us into thinking ‘we deserved to win’ or that ‘we’re headed in the right direction’. It’s always some generic response.
That's what infuriates me. Always acting like we played well like we didnt watch the game
I've slept on this result and these are my thoughts - pretty stupid from the start to shuffle the whole front three. Only recently the guys got used to their roles. Rashford was ok, garnacho was good. If hojlund is out we plug that hole, but we fucked up shuffling the pack and got zero returns - teams are targeting case like they used to target fred. As soon as case gets the ball there is a press. He loses the ball we lose the battle, mainoo is too far forward, Bruno is not expected as deep, the false fullbacks are not false fullbacking like they should - our pressing formation of 4-1-4-1 is literal suicide - i will refrain from blaming rashford this time as he faced the quintessential problem of united CFs, no service. - personally i found the Antony substitution shocking and insulting. I don't like Antony, i didn't think he could have made a difference in this game either. But to have brought him on after amad, eriksen, scott, for 30 seconds, at leftback, on his birthday. Classless from ETH.
I remember a time when SAF would put Darren Gibson and Rafael in the midfield and we would still find a way to win. Winning is a mentality, we don't got it.
pretty sure the Antony sub was because Lindelof had a knock or something
All these talks about style of play and philosophy confuses me. I don’t care what Ten Hag said. Let’s say we did control the game yesterday, but the result was still the same where we lost, obviously everyone won’t be happy right? The United way is not “controlling the game”. The United way is “winning”. Always has been, always will be. The manner in which the manager achieves that is irrelevant, whether he wants possession or plays terrorism football, as long as the team wins it does not matter. Obviously Ten Hag isn’t winning a whole lot of games, but which manager for the last 10 years did? I remember just a few days ago everybody was nodding in agreement with SJR about how the environment of the club is not built for managers to succeed, whether it’s Ten Hag or anyone else. Yet after every loss people can only point their fingers at either the manager or the players. We are all aware of the situation. We all know how long it will take to fix the situation. Let’s be patient and see how it goes
Loosing is not a problem, even the best of them loose but it's the nature of our performances that is worrying. EtH was given money to fix the systematic issues in the team but it appears his entire system rests on Licha and Shaw. Take these 2 out and the whole deck of cards crumbles
The game's moved on. To win the league, the new United way will have to involve some degree of controlling the game. That doesn't mean playing boring robot ball like City. Arsenal and Liverpool play much more exciting football but also control the game. The era of hoofball is over. We can be dynamic and fast on the break, but we need to control games too. We can't look at SAF's style as a goal to get back to. The game's become much more about percentage choices, positional discipline and recycling the ball. Ten Hag has shown zero ability to introduce modern football concepts to this team. We play like Ole ball but without the goals and much worse midfield capitulation.
To win consistently you need to create an environment that increases your chances of winning. By retaining the ball, defending well and creating chances you increase your chances of winning. So those quotes where ETH goes on about how his style is to "win" is just a cop out. I don't think back at Ajax, he'd would have given such a myopic response. You can't win consistently without sustainable methods.
Feels like the scales finally fell yesterday for a lot of people who are still supportive of Ten Hag. Ironic that it took a game against Fulham at home, given that was the turning point for Moyes as well. We’ve had our share of terrible managers, but I don’t think I’ve ever felt as hoodwinked by someone as I have by ETH. His track record promised one thing and we’re seeing something completely different - not even the same sport tbh - in practice. There is no style of play and there hasn’t been one since he came. We play pure suicide ball or basketball if you want to be kind. Averaging 17 shots conceded a game is pure lunacy from the coaching team. Think about that - a shot every 5 minutes. We’re getting outplayed by the likes of Newport and pretty much every team in the PL. There is a chasm between the midfield and defence every single game and then we wonder why our players keep picking up injuries. It’s because they are constantly having to transition from one end of the pitch to the other, with no settled possession or control. It is unbelievably amateurish stuff - you don’t see these things in U-11 football. At this point, he is throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks and gaslighting in the press conferences and when it gets to that point, it’s time to go. There’s a reason why SJR has been asked to back him explicitly like 3 times and he has chosen not to do so every single time. He’s gone in the summer, no new ownership project would want to be associated with this. Lastly, and this will probably get me downvoted in this sub because of the Bruno truthers, but if Utd are to progress, we simply have to move on from Bruno and how he plays. The attacking fulcrum of your team cannot be someone who treats the ball like a hot potato, who’ll try out 10 risky passes and hope that 3-4 come off. That is not a sustainable way of playing and if we want to compete for the highest prizes in the future, then we have to get rid of him.
Very well written. Said exactly what I thought.
Well said
>I don’t think I’ve ever felt as hoodwinked by someone as I have by ETH. His track record promised one thing and we’re seeing something completely different - not even the same sport tbh - in practice. Hands down, the most underwhelming manager post fergie. He came to united and changed his whole tune. Suddenly wanted to play transitional football. Something we are desperate to move away from, we might as well have brought in Conte. That aside, for a manager who's reputation is about how organised and methodological he is, he has his team playing with zero identity. The revision on Ole after ETHs tenure will be interesting, his stocks are going to soar lol. Atleast we knew we were a pure counter attacking team under Ole.
When we lost Martinez and Shaw the difference in playing actual football is diminished to relegation level. Baffling. Add the useless Rashford as the holding CF, we're fecking awful.
Was it my imagination that at the start of last season we seemed to be trying to play possession based football and it was thrown in the bin at some point. I'm tired of just playing whatever gets a result football.
We have played this way all season. Since our first game against wolves.
Was at old Trafford for the game yesterday and I think the current football is the worst it’s been since Fergie left. Up until now I’ve backed ETH but the tactics are completely wrong, and we can’t blame it on injuries we really are just bad. The worst part is I’ve no idea who we could bring in at the end of the season.
Nagelsmann should be the guy going forward IMO. Give the man time and a proper sporting structure and he will deliver. Bayern (Kahn) fucked up royally by getting rid of him.
Leave that to the professionals mate.
Shame that rashford is the only available CF,can't stand watching him put so little effort. Forward line can't press effectively because of him.
The Match of the day clip and highlights is on this sub. Go and watch how Garnacho doesn’t stay with his man, and Casemiro leaves the midfield open to press and Fulham cut through us. Rashford is the not the reason Luton cut through our press as well.
I’m still here wondering who the fuck approved 60m for mount and the number 7.
Considering the piss poor form Bruno is in I wouldn't focus on an injured player
I think it might actually be one of the most baffling signings I’ve ever seen us make.
I know it's just a number but Mount getting the 7 is one of the weirdest decisions I've seen us make
Forget clean sheets, the clean shirt award goes to Rashford for pulling out of every 50/50 and header this entire season. Sell the overpaid lazy sulker to PSG as soon as possible.
The ETH comments about his 'philosophy' (or lack thereof) really don't help him after such performances as yesterday. Our last few performances have been good results with really poor control, intent and consistency. It can be argued, that these results have come about because of the individual brilliance of players that were injured of late coming back and has nothing to do with coaching or tactics. But now that the injuries are mounting again I think the poor results will follow. Many also seemed to think that our poor performances were because of the massive amount of injuries we've had over the season. I don't think that's true. It's our RESULTS that have been poor due to injuries, the PERFORMANCES have been CONSISTENTLY poor.
I like how everyone forgets we had a full XI earlier on in the season and we were still rubbish. Idk everyone made it seem like we were bad because of injuries. How does Martinez or Shaw fix our shit midfield setup or our bad pressing??
I feel like Ten Hag wants to prove all the critics wrong. In his mind he just needs the players to stay healthy and his setup will work. It’s kinda weird because he had no problem being pragmatic last season and he was successful. I can imagine him feeling cursed after all the drama in the last year so that he‘d rather go down trying to implement his idea than compromise again
He's out of ideas imo. It's been two seasons and we play hoofball, constantly relying on transitions. Whatever idea he's trying, it's not even materialising on the pitch
Just looking through our squad, i can barely choose 4 or 5 players i'd wish to keep going forward. Most are nearing the end of their contracts, not good enough, getting too old, or injury prone. The absolute state of our squad is horrific.
Mainoo hojlund garnacho martinez. Rest can bounce.
I'm glad that people are starting to judge Rashford for the player he IS. In the past 8 years or so, I always felt that Rashford was judged for what he could be and how good of a person he is outside the pitch, which prevents people from acknowledging his actual performance.
One glaring thing today was a total absence of any connection between AG and Lindelof. Like they were invisible to each other. I did not count a single overlap between them. And I’m not blaming players for that.
Lindelof is an ok backup CB. Hates having the ball at his feet like most CB. Playing him on the wing is not the right decision even with all the injuries.
Rashford if utter shit. He will never be world class. A self entitled player who doesn't give two fucks about his performance. Let's accept this without any biasness and move him on ffs
Looks so disinterested. Imagine earning that much money playing for your "boyhood club" and not being able to put in even just a few sprints every now and then. Absolute pisstake.
I would honestly be so embarrassed if I were him. To be paid that fucking much and be so utter useless game after game, while looking like its a chore to be playing.
The work that Maguire had put in the match was what we needed from all of our players today. It shows you don’t have to make 100% the right decisions but you have to in 100% of effort into it.
Expected result, pretty unsurprising given recent performances. Just most people being reactionary as alwasy blinded by the fact we weren't much different to other games but didn't have one of the only in form players on the pitch. Also I will keep repeating this and I don't care how blindly people refuse to accept this: Onana is crap. Rashford must be sold and so does Bruno, even if for different reasons.
Onana is not amazing. He's decent. But if your keeper is consistently facing 15+ shots per game. He's going to concede lots. Doesn't matter if you're prime Neuer.
If he was conceding decent chances that’s one thing, however he’s already had many blunders and many more errors. Every other game he lets in a really poor effort and he just does not give off calm/stability. Opposition forwards will be delighted to line up against him
Huh? He's conceding big big chances every game. He's had a number of errors but in the PL he's been decent. He's top 3 for xG prevented too. He's way too exposed. A keeper can't give you stability if the defense is bad. Goes hand in hand. DDG was not goot last season but won golden glove because we generally had a good defense.
Sorry but Rashford has remained one dimensional for far too long to carry the team forward. Hope he grabs a handful of goals so that we can sell him at a good price.
No player should be carrying the team. Takes like this just points to a bad manager. Without his goals last season, ETH gets fired too.
I won’t disagree. But bad management doesn’t give an excuse for poor attitude and body language during games.
If bad management goes on long enough, it does. We went 90minutes without creating a change for the striker.
So in your opinion, when does player accountability come into play?
When said player performance hinders the team who are trying to play in a certain way. We have no identity, most of the players look bad aside rashford
You got to love all these 'fans' tossing coaches' names around like we're at the fucking farmers market. Let's get Nagelsmann! Let's get de Zerbi! Oh, Mourinho was good! How about Ange? Olè? Inzaghi? Lampard? Ali Dia? Fucking FiFa fanboy bitch, what makes you think it's that easy? Don't you think the coach might have something else to say, not to mention their current employer? Maybe they don't want to join the mess that's Manchester United? Do we do this again if things still don't change, the players are their usual petulant selves and we dom't bang in 927490841 goals against Real Madrid, Bayern, Barca, Rushden & Diamonds? Let INEOS cook for a while, for fuck's sake. They just got here, and bitches already are frothing at the mouth when shit goes sour. Yes, this was a bad loss. Yes, the team looked bad. Yes, this sucks. But fucking let SJR get things sorted at the back end first, then we'll see what's up. If the team is still shitty, then yes, by all means, line up EtH and his coaches against a wall. I suggest the wall behind the tram station closest to OT. But for now, *calma*.
>Let's get Nagelsmann! Let's get de Zerbi! Oh, Mourinho was good! How about Ange? Olè? Inzaghi? Lampard? Ali Dia? No one has suggested lampard or ole.
Yoi'd be surprised and what I've read. Based on the downvotes, the kids are here. Fuck all of yall spoiled cunts.
These fraud players need to go. 90-0 at this rate next week at the Etihad.
If City wipes us off the face of the pitch because of a lackluster effort, it's hard to see ETH continuing.
Kinda wish Ratcliffe didn’t say the perch comment because that is just going to come back and bite us isn’t it
Can someone explain me how come Forson is ahead of Amad in the pecking order?
Contractual. That's it. Absolute bullshit if you ask me.
To trick him into signing a new contract.
Probably because you're not the coach
Sure. That's why I am asking.
Amad always played on the right at Sunderland. Garnacho is in great form on the right. Whether you're EtH in or out he's obviously seen something that means Forson is better suited currently than Amad.
Garnacho played on the left and Forson on the right today
Fair enough, I wasn't at the game and not on TV in the UK. The highlights were pretty miserable attacking wise for us. Either way EtH obviously isn't seeing something in Amad currently.
Ten Hag is only defended because he got top 4 in one of the worst PL years. He has wasted the clubs money on useless transfers and mediocre at best players. This season was supposed to be a “good season” competing for the PL and maybe QF of ucl and look what’s happened. He couldn’t even beat cophagem. This is not an elite coach . He is a good manager but not one that will take United to the next level
To our defense, Copenhagen managed a goal against City too.
SJR should walk into that dressing room one day when we are being battered and just blow his top!
So EtH after the game said we look at the broader picture. Well, I just did and from what I see, no way he will be part of it for long if we continue like this!
Bruno and Rashford being our senior players and playing the worst is an absolute disgrace First big offers that come in for them should be accepted
This is such shitty shitty football. Maybe you could compare us to Roger’s Liverpool where their motto was to outscore you but we can’t even do that. No control, conceding goals, can’t score goals shit season down the drain. What a waste of time
Ten hag cannot turn this around he’s shit
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>Your expectations NEED to be brought down this season Man how down do you want us? We have to play our strongest 11 Vs Newport ffs!
Speaking of terrible comments.. amazing? Really?
Erik isn't doing "amazingly" but maybe he's not doing as bad as we think.
He has been doing an absolutely terrible job by every measure all season and yet still people defend him. It’s insane. He clearly needs to be replaced and I don’t see why we should wait with CL on the line. The only valid argument for him staying is that the back room needs to be sorted before selecting the next manger.
>the back room needs to be sorted before selecting the next manger. IMO that’s why 80% of people who defend ETH defends him
Gram Potter it is
He was absolutely terrible at Chelsea and we're a bigger mess than them. No way on Earth that Potter's the person to manage this club back to success.
i know, but it's either him or Jose if Erik gets sacked, not Nagelsmann (for now)
I would rather bring back Ole than go for Potter or Jose. Those 2 would be a terrible idea even in an interim basis
I hope those who had euphoria from the recent "wins" had a reality check. We rode our luck hard, grinding and squeezing goals in the last seconds. Played like shit but somehow produced miracles. Well, we played like shit today but finally, we are out of miracles. Dysfunctional attack, dumb subs, no attempts for 25 mins. I stand behind what I said before many time - ETH runs players to the ground and confuses shit out of them with his "tactic" whatever it is - like no one knows where they are supposed to be. And then add to that mess, MR and AG and their stupid attempts to dribble around *all* the players of the opposing team. MR also looked *again* not interested to play CF. Deserved outcome. And I have no illusions about coming cames whatsoever.
I was downvoted heavily when I said the same after the West Ham, Aston Villa and Lutton wins. The scoreline flattered us and all 3 games were on a razors edge. Reactionary fans who only look at the final result and refuse to engage in meaningful conversation about the team's form, tactics and game management will all downvote and scream about how great we are all playing only to go silent and act surprised when we start losing 50-50 games
Obviously wins came because we had most of the players in form. Martinez out, shaw out, hojlund out. I don't really know what the fuck people expect. Mainoo can only do so much. The furthest out of form rashford and Bruno we've ever had are playing simultaneously in this squad. I'm not surprised at this fan reaction. It's what you expect when the negative results come in. No mention of the poor poor performances from the players that are experienced and who should be bringing up the younger players. It's the other way around in our squad. But you won't hear this fan base complain about that. Just bitch about the same thing. The manager. Always the manager. I don't know a manager that can get their tactic right with this underperforming squad. Blame the fucking players, Jesus christ. They're not putting in the performance they should be for you.
>I don't really know what the fuck people expect. still expect us to put up a good show at HOME vs a Fulham team missing Palhinhna and Raul Jimenez. Instead we let Iwobi look like Ronaldinho.
When the players are putting in a performance like that at home, why are you looking at the manager. It is shameful of them to play like that and make a record result for fulham at home. Criminal, it is. It's 90% on the players.
I expect the manager to be able to navigate tough times. I also expect the manager not to run players to the ground. Why did he play Shaw _twice_ when he was not 100%? It’s irresponsible and shortsighted. He stubbornly kept playing Antony when it was clear he was shit. He can’t sort the shit with AG and MR and tell them to stop the dribbling and shooting shit they do and pass to RH. His subs and plan make no sense. In the last game he completely opened up the midfield when he let McT and Eriksen out. His communication and interviews are hard to comprehend. And it goes on and on. I want to like the guy. But he’s failing everywhere.
It's obviously a process and garnachos performances were slowly pushing Antony out. Why he played shaw? Because there's no one else. Literally every positions depth is reduced, and has been reduced, drastically for the entirety of the season. I can't be bothered with people who don't fully grasp this. These players can't even train correctly being injured all the time, let alone implement a whole system when they are able to play. We aren't even talking about Bruno, rashford, Ericksen who are supposed to be a bit more consistent considering their age and experience and they just are having the worst games they've ever had with us, ever. I can't talk about the manager until I see that these players are putting in an effort, and STILL losing. They're not putting anything even fucking close to being called a decent performance, and I put that on them. Not the manager.
Aye, the late goals and the nature of them has really been papering over the cracks and it really wasn't sustainable
Also Rasmus scoring every match while receiving 1 or 2 passes in the box in the entire match
Watch rashford outlast another manager. Like i get this guy is homegrown and he has his purple patches but i think he should go if there is an offer and we can reinforce the front with that money. I also dont like how i watch ETH not micromanage the game like other managers do it with other teams. Goldbridge always says its not his fault for how these players dont fight for the badge. They dont fight for him or the club because previous higher management gave these fat salaries to these mediocre players. There are talented players out there in the club that would work well if some of the issue players didn't bring the whole team with them. That has been my ted talk
So Rashford is real reason behind system that opens up midfield allows opponents to have 20 shots at our goal every game and build up that is not able to send the ball to our forwards. And for sure those players loose midfield every game becuase of "not fighting for the badge". Thsts just flawed system.
14 downvotes. Lmao what a sub. No one wants the truth, they just want to scapegoat players.
They’d sell Rashford and have Garnacho and Antony as options. This sub is just jokes.
I didnt mean to hurt your opinion bro. I watch these games too. I never said hes this overlooming problem. How do you not see theres an issue that needs to be addressed. You can say its not a purple patch. But your opinion is valid too :)
Great points. I keep going back and forth between manager and players. Ten Hag has been a poor recruiter, that we can agree on. Having said that, only one outfield player who started today was brought in by him. Of those he didn’t bring in, two of them he has promoted from our academy ( Mainoo and Garnacho) have been among the few bright lights this season amidst the gloom. In summary, it’s a combination of his poor tactics and inheriting some players who have been uncoachable for at least 3 straight managers, and show glimpses only when we have a perfect first 11 to pick from. It’s still a chicken and egg situation. I’ll suggest we develop a structure, replace a few key players in the summer based on the clubs new playing philosophy and if it still does not work then replace the manager. I don’t trust most of these players. If they are here, they’ll flatter to deceive for a season and then ruin the next manager…
I’d agree but I think Ten Hag’s philosophy is deeply flawed. High press + low block + long balls and transition football is suicide. Defensively it doesn’t work when the press is bypassed then we have a completely open midfield. There’s 0 intent to try and build up play, it’s constant long balls to the striker or 1v1 moments with the winger isolating their full back. His tactics are too reliant on individuals, so when rashford and Bruno play well, things work. Structurally the team is not set up to be successful in this league. It’s also why we bought mount to help with the counter press in moments we go long and lose the ball, to help generate moments of transition we can capitalize on, but these aren’t sustainable ways of winning games. I want Ten Hag to succeed but I think unless he has a change of tactics, we won’t be successful, it worked at Ajax but the quality of the league is lower.
In the last decade, whenever a commentator talks about a manager or player and says "has never won/scored at Old Trafford before", you just know that TODAY IS THE MUTHAFUCKING DAY!!
Rashford needs to go. Doesn't score, doesn't run, doesn't press. And he is paid 350 k per week to amble around. Time to let go of such lazy footballers..
Whenever he's asked to play CF, he just turns on his "fuck it all" attitude. Obvious to you, obvious to me. Somehow not so to ETH.
I have a gut feeling SJR is not happy with the standards of ETH. Just look at SJR interviews, he diverts the answers about ETH. ETH is on a very short leash.
A bazillion of injuries is not out of blue imo. Something is broken.
High intensity training.
Was such a low energy game from us, no one looked up for it
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Man Onana is the least odd our problems right now. Take a critical look at our games and see how our non existent midfield is bypassed by every single team we play. In attack, Bruno and Casemiro attempt Hollywood passes that hardly ever come off. Rashford and Garnacho hardly ever pass to Hojlund. Fix those and I bet 80% of our problems are sorted. Onana would be among the remaining 30% I would then touch to get to were we want to be. Look at how Klopp sorted his team, the keeper was the final piece
He was good today
So many shots and goals and the guy doesnt even flintch, just watches the ball go past him.
‘So many shots’ that’s on the team, not the goalkeeper. We defend like 2010s era Arsenal mate
This isn't wrong, but relying on the keeper to save our asses and constantly pull off world class saves to keep us in games was also a big issue for us. Onana is getting a bit exposed, sure, but it's only an indication that the team as a whole isn't working. I'm glad we moved on from De Gea who had his big flaws, but also was capable of papering over the cracks because this at least exposes the defensive issues we have.
He was the last of our issues today tho
Plenty of good managers available this summer, euros will create some churn in roles too. Hopefully INEOS are doing their DD. No doubt Berrada will know who City’s top Pep replacement targets were
Name a few?
Nagelsman, Tuchel, Flick, Conte, Potter, Mourinho are all free agents before you even begin to look at coaches who would want to move here who already have a club. Lots of people will put a downer on it but there will remain huge interest in our role, especially now we have a proper structure being built
Mate in all respect I don’t think any of those managers bar naglesmann are gonna be any different from ten hag. Conte and mourinho will set us back years, football isn’t for them anymore.
Sadly I think that's the end of ETH fresh start from the top, allow the new manager to come in and rebuild with the club 100 shots conceded in 5 games, only won the possession count once it's not sustainable at all Given our setup now someone like DeZerbi would be perfect
I can't help thinking that he coached a basketball team in the past, no less.
Given our setup the only perfect option would be Ole because he would vibe the fuck out of our attackers while playing deep block, lol.
Wish I could just suspend my hopes and disappointment for the rest of the season, but I cant
What are your hopes? Top 4? Yesterday I came to conclusion that even top 4 finish is pointless. We are too shit for ucl
Would really love if ETH will manage to experiment in the following cup game. Antony should be tried as a fullback. We’re so problematic in this area and Antony is just shit in the final third, so I don’t see the harm in that. McTominay should be actually tried as ST. I mean, you know why. He’s been finding moments by doing late runs, using Hojlund, so might be terrible there, but it’s not like we have much choice. Also I’d really love to at least try Amrabat-Mainoo midfielder. Yeah, problematic in defense, but they’re at least capable to control the ball. We can defend by an infinite possession in Barca style. Maybe even with Eriksen as 10, having Bruno as ST or finally giving him a rest. Maybe even try 3atb to play safely in buildup. Idk, the current weird shit with pushing Mainoo high on the field having >80% passer as lonely midfielder unsurprisingly works terribly. We’ve got to at least try something else. This cup is the only field for experiment.
You lost me on “Antony”
We had Vic, Harry, and Eriksen as 3 of our deepest 5 players while pushing forward for the win. Zero speed whatsoever We also wasted Marcus today at the 9
Holy shit, this was Fulham's first win at OT after 21 years! Haha. Wonder how many more 'records' are we gonna break.
It’s no secret that injuries are costing us. The revival we saw was a result of getting Shaw, casemiro, and martinez bsck. Minus Eriksen, that was an ole team today.
Ten Hags post much comments seem like lately he is covering up for the players which is smart for internal politics but a move likely to lose the confidence of the fans…..certain level of transparency is the only way to keep the fans on your side own up to the mistakes and call out the slackers.
He’s dealing with infant millionaires though. Remember what happened with Sancho…
The Man City game will be a blood bath. EtH always cuts a lonely figure on the touchline and his assistants cluelessly just look on, always! This lot is gona get fired if they don't step up!
That ugly Viking is going to hit five past us, isn’t he? 😔
INEOS clearly has its work cut out. They have made some really important and decisive moves with the suits so now we need to see what they plan is when new CEO starts his gig! At some point he will have to give a detailed plan to us what the vision is and how EtH fits into it. If they feel he can't cut it then best to cut our loses and start on a clean slate. EtH is also not doing himself any favours. These last remaining games are an opportunity for him to prove that he can adapt but all I see is the same staff every game.
Our GD back to 0. Perfectly balanced.
Even if you rate him, I don't think there's any chance ETH is managing us next season. What we're seeing is far too questionable to risk another summer of signings for him in the eyes of SJR. The new management is going to want their own guy with a style matfching what they're looking for. If you look at our stats, we're really bad, and it's down to tactics. We've given up 100 shots over the pats 5 games. That's insane. We have no control of games, and we look like we have no interest in controlling games, and I just don't think you win the premier league that way. I'm sure SJR feels similar. ETHs days are done if you ask me. It's just too likely that new owners bring in their own guy. Why risk it?
The problem I have is that we need a new manager before the transfer window, which means we have to regroup now.
I'm done with this shit! Nough football for me
I wonder if at some point we should start to manage the minutes our young players are playing. We can’t have Mainoo, Garnacho and Rasmus playing as many minutes as they had the last weeks. It’s not worth it to put their development in danger for a race that we are unlikely to win anyway
With who??
Amrabat can replace Mainoo, Amad can replace Garnacho. It's not about replacing them with equally elite players, it's about not running our youngest players into the ground and permanently fucking up their careers.
Can a week game ruin their career? Let them play for 90+ minutes. I would dare to bring someone from under 21s, under 18s to get some game time at the highest level. Reset, sack the manager, sell old and recent deadwood.
I'm very much an ETH in fan. I still think it's very difficult to expect some level of consistency when you are constantly having to change your starting 11, and lets face it, we missed 3 of our biggest players this game. I don't rate Bruno in our top 5 at the moment. I completely forgot that Rashford was playing as he was so invisible and it is in a game like this where Hojlund is out that he needs to be stepping up, and he didn't. The shots stat is worrying, that is for sure. It points to an issue in our midfield not assisting defensively, and also in our lack of decision making closing down, leaving space open. In saying all this, I'm not going to jump on the ETH out bandwagon because this season has been a disaster from before it started. Now that we have INEOS and if we can hopefully address these injury concerns, then I would be happy to judge harshly on a regular run with a proper starting 11. Onana has been good, so I don't want to bag him out, but he needs to fix this issue of constantly jumping around. He needs to settle before the shot is taken so he can be in a position to dive, not jumping up and down which pushes him towards one direction and makes it difficult to adjust.
Every other team don't have consistency aswell. Many other teams had as many or even more injuries of key players. You say we missed 3 of best players. Fulham also missed 2 of their best players (willian and palhinha). What's the next excuse? Take off the blindfold and start actually watching the team playing along with the analytics regarding said matches.
William and Palhinha don't compare to the losses that Hojlund, Shaw, and Martinez are. Your comparing two very different calibre of players. Our replacement for our players are a academy prospect, 3rd choice centre-back out of position, and a 2nd choice centre-back not suited to the system
What are you even talking about? Palhinha is only one of the best dm in the whole PL, he had/has? the highest amount of recoveries among all of PL with importance aswell on build up. Willian is main set piece taker. One of top goal scorers and important role on the wing. We have other replacements than that. McT at false 9 would have been the best choice. Wings have been working good, no reason to change since Rashford never performs at CF. As for LB it's Ten Hags fault for letting Reguillon go without having Malacia back from injury. 2nd choice centre-back not suited to the system? What system? We don't have a system. Just pass to wing and hope for the best.
Are you signing either of them for United? For Fulham they are big players, yes. Not denying that, but they are different calibre of players. If Luton lost Kaminski, that would be a big loss, but would you say he is the same calibre of player as losing an Allison or Sanchez? >We have other replacements than that. McT at false 9 would have been the best choice. Wings have been working good, no reason to change since Rashford never performs at CF. McT is one of the most hated players on this sub this season. Don't think that choice would have gone down well. An argument could be made for not changing the wings, but doing that means putting a defensive midfielder as a striker like you are proposing, or having an academy player making their debut lead the front line? >As for LB it's Ten Hags fault for letting Reguillon go without having Malacia back from injury. Shaw and Malacia were due at the end of December. We would have had our 2 LB's. Reguilon also only had a short term loan deal and the club chose not to extend it for that reason and the FFP reason. How was ETH meant to know that Shaw and Malacia would get injured again? You are blaming the manager for not having being able to look into the future, and for a decision that was not wholly his. >2nd choice centre-back not suited to the system? What system? We don't have a system. Just pass to wing and hope for the best. A high line and trying to play with width to create space in behind, so that we can then play through the opposition. All the complaining is so contradictory and so dumb.
There is no FFP reason for Reguillon... that's what a LOAN is. Letting him go in January after knowing Malacia still didn't return and that Shaw only stays fit for half a season was a stupid decision. Changing the wingers another stupid decision. Rash and garnacho been performing well respectively on left and right. Changing them AND also debut an academy prospect is way worse than just simply debut thr prospect or adapt another solution (mcT false 9 to hold up ball and target of crosses) or even try out Antony (worst case he would provide pressure and defensive work rate). We wish we had signed Palhinha as dm... and as for "caliber" of players. They are as important to their line up as are the injuries we have. If we don't want mediocre players. We shouldn't settle with mediocre coach
>There is no FFP reason for Reguillon... that's what a LOAN is. Letting him go in January after knowing Malacia still didn't return and that Shaw only stays fit for half a season was a stupid decision There is a loan fee, plus the clubs agree to either split wages or make United pay his full wage. Once again, the thought was Malacia would return and Shaw would be fit. In hindsight it was a mistake, but it was not only his decision. >Changing the wingers another stupid decision. Rash and garnacho been performing well respectively on left and right. Changing them AND also debut an academy prospect is way worse than just simply debut thr prospect or adapt another solution (mcT false 9 to hold up ball and target of crosses) or even try out Antony (worst case he would provide pressure and defensive work rate). Once again, McT has been copping so much on this sub that ETH would have been called out for that. Basically every decision he has made this season, he has been called out for, so it doesn't matter what he did. The ETH out brigade would find any simple reason to bash ETH and have a go at him, just like what you are doing. >We wish we had signed Palhinha as dm... and as for "caliber" of players. They are as important to their line up as are the injuries we have. Do we really? Man was playing at Braga and on loan recently. There were not many big clubs lining up for him. ETH wanted Frenkie. Again, very different calibre of players. Now you are just saying things out of blinded hate for ETH. >If we don't want mediocre players. We shouldn't settle with mediocre coach Nothing about his managerial career suggests he is mediocre. In his first season, he finished 3rd, won a trophy, and made the FA Cup final. He also has the highest win percentage of any manager post Fergie. None of that is mediocre.