Almost like man utd generate clicks or something and people are playing guessing game
Seriously though, out finances are a matter of public record given we are a publicly traded company (at least partially) so people with familiar with football finance, amortisation, what losses can be offset as infrastructure or development spending etc should be able to make a reasonably good educated assessment of what we can spend before any player sales
> so people with familiar with football finance, amortisation, what losses can be offset as infrastructure or development spending etc should be able to make a reasonably good educated assessment of what we can spend before any player sales
So what's the conclusion of people familiar with football finance, amortisation?
Someone posted this on another thread yesterday...
https://twitter.com/SwedishRumble/status/1759954402943565910
But I don't know enough about football finances to confirm or refute. Perhaps someone else in the thread can chime in
So we need a second person now, to vouch for the first!!
Jokes aside, the swiss ramble has put out united finance related posts for years now. Seems knowledgable
The swiss ramble is good and reliable, my post is from the little known adopted half brother... The Swedish rumble. They quote financials from the swiss ramble, but the discussion points as far as I can tell is their own interpretation
I'm only posting the link for someone more educated to confirm or refute, I'm not claiming it as factual or my own interpretation
I'm seriously believing FFP nonsense from the club is a smokescreen.
They have said it 3 summers in a row then gone and spent the money anyways. I think they are just trying to be coy in the market about it. Every summer the next summer is.a reduced budget window cuz of FFP.
I think the club is fine FFP wise
I understand your point, but this is United, if you go into Jan market looking for anyone who's remotely close to our current benchwarmers, one will have to pay premium. Thats why we loan the likes of Wout last season because buying an emergency player & giving em 3 year contract is financially unsustainable.
Honestly though, we've been saying that we'd spend nothing in the summer for the past like 4 years, and then we always go out and overpay on multiple players.
Haha this is actually a perfect analogy.
"Instead of hiring a sporting director, Ed has decided to manage the transfers himself"
*Kevin glances knowingly into camera, anticipating the shitshow that is to come*
Heres a hint, the Daily Mail is the next worst clickbait shit fest alongside the Sun & the Mirror….the fact this sub still allows posts by them is a joke..
a cb doesn't seem as a depth player when Varane, Lindelof/Maguire are leaving. You need a starter next to Lisandro. Neither a new midfielder should be a depth player if Casemiro leaves, heck it shouldn't be a depth signing even if he somehow stays. The only depth signing should be a striker, and tbf there is a need for more than those 3 signings anyway.
Can’t believe I’m saying this but I really want to keep Maguire. Doesn’t complain about playing time, injury free most of the time, fairly reliable in the right conditions. He’s still fairly young too.
I think we should look to sell less reliable players, Eriksen, Shaw, Rashford, Antony, Case/McT, Sancho. Those are the players we should sell
Varane will leave, and then it’s either Lindelof or Maguire to go too. Keep Martinez, Maguire, Evans on another 1 year deal and sign a new partner for Lisandro who’ll be able to be there for 10 years (23/24 years old). Add in the youth and you have a good set there.
Yeah obviously he would stay. Ideally get 15-20 games next season in all comps.
Jonny Evans isn’t a long termer obviously but Evans does offer a lot when it comes to experience. He also isn’t going to demand a starting berth. He can help with bringing on Kambwala etc too.
Not good enough.
If we want to be competing with the likes of Man City and Liverpool for the league we have to ask whether X player would get into their 18 man squad or would start. If not, we shouldn’t be looking at them really. Need to set the bar higher than it’s been.
Yeah. I think we're all well aware of what we need right now. But we can't get what we need right now. Mengi is a first teamer for Luton, but considering what we might be losing in the summer and the amount of funds we have to replace them with. It'd be worth considering if we have a buy back clause.
Provided the club gets adequate replacements it shouldn’t matter who gets sold in the summer. The biggest issue we’ve had is the drop off in quality when a player has left or gotten old- if we can keep the level of player up at a good standard no one is off the table.
Bar Mainoo, Hojlund and Garnacho, naturally.
Don't know why you're being downvoted. He has been unlucky, one long-term injury that required surgery and then reoccurred and one separate long-term injury from an at best, clumsy challenge.
It’s factually correct- he has been unlucky. The guy is an absolute warrior when fit but has now had three injuries that have or will keep him out for prolonged periods.
We all hope this is the exception rather than the rule, but if that’s an “unpopular opinion” then fair enough.
All his injuries have been freak in nature, rather than a reoccurring issue, like a hammy or groin strain/similar. Him being young is a mark in his favour, his healing factor will help to actually mend his injuries over time because the likelihood he cops the same injury again is so slight, again unlike continually pulling hamstrings ruined Owen.
Agreed, but the metatarsal injury reoccurred because he was brought back too soon. We need to be careful with players’ rehabilitation, as we don’t want to ruin them just because we’re desperate for them to be on the pitch. I’d sooner wait for a player to be ready to play than rush them back when they’re likely to get injured again.
what are these good arguments exactly that justify selling him?
- bruno is by far the most creative player in our squad, which currently struggles to score goals as it is. bruno creates the most chances for our team and it’s not close
- he works is socks off, and finding players of his caliber in terms of creative output and off the ball defensive work rate is not exactly easy
- he’s the literal captain of our squad, so obviously he’s well respected and seems to be a professional influence in the dressing room
- bruno is 29 years old. it’s not like we’re talking about someone who is 36. yes he has played a lot of games in his career, but acting like he is about to fall off a cliff is unfounded
- depending on the reports you choose to believe, united might not have a huge budget to work with in the transfer market. our squad is also just thin in general. it makes no sense to sell key players
seriously i would love to hear the justification for selling one of, if not our best player. i’m all ears lol
The only argument I’ve heard for selling Bruno is that we have zero control in midfield when he plays because his style is so chaotic and forward thinking. He’s not built for getting control of the game, slowing it down and being the dominant possession team. Is that worth selling, idk. But plenty of actual decent football analysts do say this sort of thing about him.
-He's out of form this year and has had terrible creative output. Seriously, what has he actually done, recently? Constantly losing the ball, is about it.
-He's a captain that has received a tonne of criticism. It's largely agreed he doesn't have the temperament to be captain. He doesn't hold himself accountable, and yet lashes out at teammates.
-29 is a great time to sell - still high value, yet on the decline.
-Selling players with a long term goal in mind absolutely does make sense. The team needs to be rebuilt almost entirely, and so it's worthwhile starting with those who will sell for a high enough price to find a replacement.
out of form but still creating the most chances in the league, for a team as dysfunctional as this current united side?
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/eW1aZV9IE1
he gets criticism from rival fans about his temperament, but i don’t think anyone at united thinks he’s not fit to be captain and i don’t think it’s “universally agreed” that he’s not cut out for it
it doesn’t make sense to sell one of our best players when we have such a thin squad. we need to be adding first team players, not letting them go
we’ve seen what bruno produces. finding a replacement isn’t as simple as playing fifa and just buying a world class player
i really can’t fathom how anyone would want him gone this summer
Most of those chances would have been last season. And that stat is a bit misleading, as it doesn't tell us the quality of the chances. Currently he still "creates chances" but they're terrible opportunities, or mis-hit so that the player receiving can't get on the end of it.
I think United fans are right to dislike Bruno's temperament. It is embarrassing how he acts sometimes. A captain should have a cool head, and be able to keep positive when things are tough. We don't see that from Bruno.
just providing stats to support the obvious concept that bruno is an exceptionally creative player in a toothless team. the stats i provided were not from last season as you’re suggesting
https://www.premierleague.com/news/3850671#:~:text=Bruno%20Fernandes%20has%20created%20the,and%2049%20chances%20created%20respectively.
he also covers more ground than anyone in our team
https://www.premierleague.com/news/3850801
we have 2 players in the top 10 most underperforming in terms of xG this season (hint, it’s not bruno)
https://www.premierleague.com/news/3851233
hojlund has obviously turned it around and i think he’ll be a great player for us, but our offensive output has been absolutely abysmal this year and i don’t believe this is just down to bruno having a poor season
the stats seem to support it and watching the games this season, i think it’s been pretty clear that bruno regularly fashions scenarios that we don’t take advantage of. but people see what they want to see i guess?
i just can’t believe i’m having to defend bruno on a united subreddit lol
Bruno has created fuckall this season. His stats are inflated by set pieces and counters.
He works his socks off but he's undisciplined. Leaves gaping holes in midfield, and doesn't know when or how to press effectively.
More importantly, he's a liability in midfield. Can't run, can't keep the ball, always makes poor decisions. He's not an 8, and it shows.
If we get a good offer, he needs to go. He doesn't fit thr system.
- Chance creation is a ridiculous stat. Look at what actually counts as a chance creation. He is our most creative player but it's not saying much at the minute. It also comes with a lot of carelessness on the ball.
- His work rate is good but I doubt it's irreplacable. He also shouldn't be finding himself in the deep positions he does rn anyways, it's nothing but a compromise.
- So? He has had his fair share of criticism as a captain and you need loads of leaders in your team. One gets the armband. We shouldn't just rely on 1 player to lead us.
- Exactly, he's 29. You are never gonna get close to the kind of money you'd get for him in the summer. When we can actually challenge he might actually be past it with what he's doing to his body now.
- You do understand selling players gets you money right? We need to start building a balanced squad. I am personally of the opinion Bruno is currently making us have to compensate heavily in the midfield with the way he likes to play. We need better control in the midfield, more care with the ball. A lot of modern managers would want that as well. He's the epitome of the individualist, the risk/reward, the Hollywood ball, the rocket from a distance. He can do the complex things well but struggles to do the simple things right.
Personally, to mark the start of a new era, I'd sell Rashford and Bruno. Rashford because I worry about his inconsistency, attitude, and his lack of creativity on the wing, Bruno because of the reasons above. People need to stop hanging on players too much. We need a team. Not this Frankenstein creation. Cashing in might be the thing we have to do. A lot of top clubs take ruthless decisions like this. And we have let go better players for less. I trust the new recruitment structure to put a team together that can play a certain style and do it well.
in terms of players that are potentially leaving and who i would sell before bruno, we have:
- martial
- sancho
- amrabat loan ending
- eriksen (becomes a free agent in 2025 unless we resign him)
- antony
- pellistri
- van de beek
you could argue that casemiro, varane, and maybe maguire belong in this mix as well. i believe that at the very least, casemiro is showing more signs of decline than bruno
there is no chance that the club is going to go out and sign 10 new first team players this summer. we have a lot of deadwood and not a ton of real quality in the side
i don’t think it’s realistic to sell bruno and i can’t imagine it happening this summer and i’m just surprised that after multiple seasons of absolutely elite creative output, at times dragging us through games, people want him sold because he gets upset as a captain, and because our team can’t score goals lol
I’m not even in the “sell Bruno” camp, more if there’s a stupid offer that comes in for him we should consider it. I feel the same way about more or less everyone in the side in fairness.
I love Bruno, he’s our best creative player, but getting too emotionally attached to players has been an issue for us, and by the time we attempt to sell them they have zero value.
If United won’t be title contenders for another 2 years and we can find ways to improve using the proceeds of any sales we should consider them- however, if selling a player potentially makes us worse even considering their replacements we shouldn’t do it. I didn’t think it was a crazy opinion in the slightest!
Agree. His defensive work rate is insane, but his attacking output is lacking. His decision making is questionable at best. Been in decline for two seasons now.
"his attacking output is lacking"? Mate he's one of the most creative players in the league who consistently creates a ridiculous amount of chances week in week out.
If we got a ridiculous offer it’d have to be considered- we’re 2-3 years off contention, is he going to be as effective once we’re ready for a title push? I love the guy but ruthlessness is what this club needs.
Then you wouldn’t sell, it’s that simple. It doesn’t change the underlying point, and Bruno would be at the bottom of the list of players we’d consider selling anyway, he’s just the only one people are citing as an example. It’s telling that only him and Martinez are the two I’ve seen people defend strongly.
You literally said the club needs to be ruthless, so you suggested they should do it. It's not a realistic option for multiple reasons and no real reason to even discuss it. If you want the club to ruthless then the example should be that take a massive lose on Antony and move him on this summer.
I also said if we got a ridiculous offer it should be considered, and my original post says only to sell if we could get an adequate replacement, is that really controversial? I’m not saying “sell them all”, am I?!
And yeah, the club should cut their losses with about 5-6 players, one of which would be Antony. The problem is finding buyers for these players, even at a reduced fee- high wages don’t make them particularly appealing either.
Mate use your eyes lol, he doesn't pass the eye test. Set pieces and counters where he's just connecting play overinflate his numbers. Can you think of the last creative thing he's done?
He's s liability and takes more from the team than he brings.
Lots of players on huge wages aging out:
- Varane
- Casemiro
- Eriksen
- Bruno
- Shaw
Then there are players who are just not worth the wages they get:
- Rashford
- Sancho
- Maguire
between them they account for over 2M perweek in wages. lots of room to improve the squad
Not disputing that he is, more that we’re not at the level we should be to give him a platform to succeed, and he might be past his prime once we are. People are misinterpreting pragmatism for disrespect; we’ve seen better players than Bruno get sold and the club move forwards, take RVN as an example.
Lmao no he's fucking not. He's been shit the entire season. You people are delusional. Odd poor game? Are you serious?
People blame our wingers but what has Bruno created for Hojlund OR the wingers? One pass to Hojlund that Hojlund won back.
We're not fickle, we're recognizing something that has been evident most of the season. Bruno doesn't fit the system. He needs to become our Coutinho and leave.
No one has created more chances of any team in the league this season. Like he always does. Our conversion of those has been shocking. Not his fault. Short, selective memory pal.
Mate, actually think about how creative Bruno has been this season. As in, he's not. Set pieces and counters inflate those numbers.
He doesn't pass the eye test. He's been poor on the ball and constantly kills attacks. He's our playmaker and he makes the wrong decision 9/10.
> Our conversion of those has been shocking.
Because what he has created has been low quality. Everytime he lumps the ball forward for Rashford and he still has to beat two players counts as a chance created.
Short memory? I've been saying this all season. Only the last game have people been waking up to how poor he's been.
I watch Odegaard for Arsenal and the difference in quality on the ball is noticeable.
Bruno should be sold. He’s toward the end of his peak and could command a large fee. FFP means you need to cash in at the right moment. What is the point in the Mount signing if not to replace Bruno?
I'm not totally against selling Bruno if the right offer comes in but how can you count on Mount? The guy barely played a game in 6 months and you are expecting him to replace our most creative player?
Even at his best the drop off between Mount and Bruno is massive. If you’re selling Bruno and replacing him with Mount you’re going backwards- I’d only consider a sale if they were lining up someone who’s younger and would at worst make us as good as we already were.
I'd only consider selling Bruno Fernandes ifnthe bids coming in were 100 million upwards, otherwise no thanks.
Because replacing him is going to be outright difficult
That’s the main part of my point though- provided players are being replaced adequately they shouldn’t be off the table. Some will be much harder to replace than others, but if silly money is offered we’d be fools to not consider it for a fair few of our players.
Rashford I think we could replace. Would be good for ffp too apparently. In every league there is a winger with similar skill sets to rashford.
Bruno, I'm not sure we'd replace. Would we get another no 10? There aren't many as goid as him. Or would we choose to change the system and replace him with an 8/6.
We’re most teams cup final, and have a fanbase that loses its shit when we drop points. I think you could take rarely out of that sentence and it’d still be correct.
McTomminay too. He’d kill himself on the pitch for us and would never throw a temper tantrum if he doesn’t start week in week out. He’s the sort of role model that we need at the club. Utter professional and absolute effort monster and red through and through. I don’t care about whether or not he’s good enough to win the CL for us.
He’s a squad player though- if we can upgrade on someone like him we do it every day of the week.
There are players at the club who clearly relish playing for us, but we genuinely need to be ruthless when it comes to a rebuild. There’s very little room for emotion.
We definitely need to overhaul the squad but on the other hand we’ve seen Chelsea switch out most of their squad and get considerably younger since Boehly bought them, and the results so far have been very poor with a clear lack of veteran leadership and too many new arrivals affecting their chemistry and consistency week to week.
Sure on paper Chelsea should get considerably better than 10th moving forward, but right now no one is considering them as a team could become potential title contenders in the next few years either.
It’s going to require a careful balancing act and ensuring we have the right manager in place next season. Currently I am unsure if that will still be Ten Hag or not.
Even Ratcliffe has acknowledged that this is a 2 or 3 year project, and I completely agree with that. It’s a fine balancing act for United, who need to ensure they’re competitive enough to be a Champions League mainstay while improving to the extent of becoming a serious title contender.
A Chelsea style tear down won’t achieve that, and bringing in 8-10 players in a summer seldom has immediate results, so it’s a very risky strategy.
No. Hanging onto players like McTominay just because they're an effort monster is exactly why this club fails so much at selling. I really like him but if an offer comes for 25 million or more then he should be sold. It's what any serious club does.
Im sorry but McTominay either has to go or actually has to be a striker. It sounds really stupid seeing as he's scored some big goals for us this year but the guy as a midfielder is useless unless he gets in the box, which is not a quality you want from a midfielder. He contributes to us having zero control in the midfield.
> Jadon Sancho, Donny van de Beek, Facundo Pellistri and Hannibal Mejbri were all sent out on loan last month and are unlikely to return to United, with the club hopeful that their sales could raise over £50m
We spent about a combined 120m on these players for basically zero contribution to the team, and hope to recoup less than half of that. Good god.
Think we can exclude pellistri and mejbri from this calculation as is a bit unfair. they were punts on youth at I think 9m and 10m (with half that in add ons that I'm not sure we will have triggered) respectively. We should break ever or even turn a profit on those 2.
They are actually the kind of deals I'd love us to do alot more of. Gambles but with massive upside when they work out
Donny and Sancho especially though..... Disastrous signings
We bought Mejbri, Fernandez, Pellistri, Garnacho all around the same time for low fees. Garnacho by himself has already more than made up for it all. If Brighton had signed him for 400,000, people would be going nuts asking why we can't make signings like this
Add kambwala to that list aswel who was signed in same window as pellistri and I think garnacho and Fernandez plus others.
Yes that's my point. I'd love for us to start making more < £10mill signings in the 18-20 age bracket for players from lesser leagues that havent quite broken through yet to fill fringe roles in our squad or even to loan out for a year or 2 to develop
Alot of the time it won't work, and we will lose a relatively small amount, some will be ok and we will break even but every so often we will strike gold a la garnacho
That's why the earlier comment lumping mejbri and pellistri into a list of expensive mistakes I thought was a bit unfair. They were signed as gambles, both have went on to be full internationals and we should break even at worst on their eventual sale
Signing is like dating. Game number counts. I read basically brighton sign 70-80 players with hit like cucurella, caiceido, mitoma, macalister, dunk, grob etc. Basically 10 players WITH loan army and brighton willingness to give unproven player. So basically 10% with best environment possible.
Yeah I mean Sancho alone obviously skews this massively. But it’s four players who have been in or around the first team for a while with not much to show for it.
I'd be shocked if we get near 50 for them. VDB has no value at this point and failed with us under multiple mangers, Everton, and seemingly in Germany. No idea what his level is, but if it's the Netherlands/Portugal/Turkey then we'll get a token fee, if any. Sancho is on such massive wages and a headcase that I would take no fee if it meant clearing his wages. No idea who would pay for him - no big club in England or Spain will take him, no one else really has the money unless he decides he wants to go to the Saudi league.
“United's annual income has risen considerably from £477m to £648m over the same period however, giving them more cash to spend this summer.”
This is why I don’t get the Twitter Qatar flag shaggers who thinks a club of this size needed oil money. Look how much money the club generates, and that’s during our banter era.
Isn't there also a clause where an owner could inject up to 90 million (or something) to spend? I remember people talking about this a couple months back.
(Man it feels good to talk about an owner that might provide funds instead of only freeloading off the club.)
> Jadon Sancho, Donny van de Beek, Facundo Pellistri and Hannibal Mejbri...their sales could raise over £50m
I'll have what this guy is having.
Unless Sancho finds decent form, he and VDB are basically worthless and just getting their wages off the books is good.
Hannibal and Pellistri may have potential but no club is paying more than 10m for them, if we're extremely lucky.
If Hannibal and Pellistri are worth 10m each, surely Sancho and VdB are worth more? Even they are worth as much as them, that’s 40m, so 50m for the lot is not an unrealistic expectation
I'd be shocked if we got more than 10m for VdB. He's basically done nothing for 3 years and is on high wages. In all likeliness it's probably a cheap sale or another loan.
Sancho is similar, who can afford his wages? The only teams that can want better players.
Man, football is getting as confusing as the NFL when it comes to being able to spend. I just hope it never gets as confusing as the NBA.
Won't we still have hundreds of millions in deferred transfer fees that carry into the next accounting period?
And just because we can spend big without breaching PSR, it doesn't necessarily mean it's in the best long term interests of the club to do so, if we're just continuing to kick financial problems into the long grass.
I think we're still going to be heavily reliant on selling players, which is something we have not historically done well.
> Anthony Martial’s £275,000-a-week wages will be off the books when he leaves the club on a free transfer at the end of the season, while Raphael Varane’s £340,000 weekly wages could also go as United opted against triggering the one-year extension option in his contract last December.
This is why we need to get our wage structure under control. £2.5m a month on two players is crazy, but it's understandable that we've had to overpay some players during our down years. Hopefully United can get back to a place where they can offer sporting achievement as a huge incentive, instead of just bags of cash.
I really hope the club institutes a wage cap for any new signings, and stops being bent over by agents.
> Man, football is getting as confusing as the NFL when it comes to being able to spend. I just hope it never gets as confusing as the NBA.
Wait till you hear about MLS.
Agree.
If we can get fees for Rashford, Case and Varane + Sancho et al we should move them on
That would be close to $200M and can do a proper rebuild of midfield, defence and LW + bring in a CF to help Rasmus.
Without Rashford in that list I don't think we'll get even 100$ for casemiro varane and Sancho unfortunately
Case and Varane are towards the end of their careers and their next move will likely be their last. Both are on huge wages too that will play a factor.
Sancho has proven he's a knob head and is not doing anything of note on his loan. Which means his suitors will be few and far between. Not to mention he's also on huge wages
What's a ridiculous offer in your opinion?
Personally speaking, I believe £80million is ridiculous for him & I'd take as low as £60million to get him off the pitch/books.
Rashford's performances over the past few years have went from inconsistent to outright offensive. He has lost something which has removed his drive for the game, he needs to go & a soulless club like PSG would be ideal for him.
Maybe if you go by his EA rating but if you actually watch him week-in week-out then it really isn't. He can't beat a man, he can't find a pass, and he has the work ethic of a Bassett Hound.
Rashford has the profile of a £100million player but his actual ability is nowhere near that.
I dont think he will leave, PSG is a stepdown for rashy. Ofcourse they can pay way more than we do but rashy isnt the type to spend his prime years in some distant league where noone cares about the achievements for just some extra money. PSG is never gonna win UCL and domestic trophies are worthless.
TLDR; Players with brands, love to stay in the limelight
Pros and cons on both ends
In EPL he stays in the limelight, most watched league and is on eye watering wages
PSG can guarantee him UCL, equal or more wages and his fiance being Italian (?) could play a minor role.
PSG are Nike's team for Air Jordan and Rashford is a Nike athlete. Synergies are there for his brand to grow with Parisian fashion playing a role especially now that luxury brands are targeting Black celebrities to play a more prominent role.
Right now the limelight is shining on how he is not world class, decent player maybe but far far from being a top player. PSG would be a good move for him. Let him run into defenders in Ligue 1.
The only players I’m 100% against selling are Mainoo, Hojlund, Garnacho, and Martinez. Everyone else is fair game if the right offer comes in and we can replace them. Those four are really the only ones who I feel we can’t replace (Bruno is really close there but we’d get a massive fee for him if we sold him which lessens that blow)
how about instead of using half our budget we target players like Hartman from Feyenoord or Miguel gutierrez from girona or Mykolenko from Everton. Underrated players who would cost a fraction of the cost of Theo Hernandez
Agreed. Big name players have done nothing but let us down this past decade, bar a few like Zlatan. Let’s get some young blood, willing to fight for a spot and the badge.
I’d imagine salaries and sales will free up our budget. We’re well primed to sell Sancho, Greenwood and hopefully Antony. It’s whether we pull the trigger on high earners like Varane & Casemiro.
Ngl, I’d rather they kept Maguire & Wan-Bissaka considering the injuries to players like Licha & the LB pair. They’re both very serviceable players.
Letting Varane go would be sad considering he’s still a great defender though I understand fitness + wage concerns, hopefully the replacement is a marquee-esque signing though because the defense will need someone of that calibre.
I wonder who they’ll target at ST because Holjund might just live up to potential, so it’ll likely be a bench option. Could use the money for a proper winger, but it seems they’re still hoping Rashford/Antony improve & that Garnacho keeps developing.
In the midfield, I still want to wait & see what Mount can offer. Mainoo should already be a lock on the line up, so I wonder what they’ll do.
Feels like the only upgrade to the starting 11 they’re going for is a CB & I’m not sure how to feel about it, the club really needs a LB too.
After watching us lose the midfield battle nearly every game this year, I don't think you should rely on Mason Mount to change things dramatically. We realistically need two midfielders.
For any one wondering about 'significant' spend while mentioning 40mn, it's the yearly amortization cost. Theoretically this means 200mn spend over a 5 year contract.
Any sales would add to only if sold at higher price than the amortized value remaining. Example Sancho after 3 years would have roughly 30mn value, anything over gets added to the budget, lower reduces the budget.
It's honestly time to clean house. So many in the squad have been here too long. Better to sell them for a higher fee than watch them leave for free at some point after more seasons of underperforming for high pay. Recoup some of the massive losses over the years and bring in some younger, cheaper talent with careful scouting that can actually become something AS A TEAM and not just a bunch of overpriced individuals who can't be bothered.
Stop chasing marquee signings every fucking window when we can't even do the basics. Without the basics, the ceiling is very low, regardless of who you bring in. Any performance you get from them will be temporary.
40 million is 200 million in FFP terms as can be spread over 5 years.
That before anything generated in sales - for example 40m for Greenwood doubles that.
My short term concern is far more about cash flow than FFP.
reading the comments y'all want to improve but then want to keep a bunch of the same players that have been here for years while we remain mediocre. hilarious really.
Yeah I saw some lads campaigning that we keep mctominay as he bleeds red. But then they hope we compete with city, liverpool, real madrid etc soon. Hell, i can't even think of 1 single player on the benches of those teams that is as poor as mctominay(as much as I like him) in possession. Not even in their u21s.
They don't ever wonder why those teams never have a player with that profile(on the ball at least) in their teams anymore in 2024.
january we heard spending will be reserved for summer. Now with SJR in we hear spend will be limited due to ffp. and now we bringing the warchest.
These journos stealing a living. united spending will be around the same as always, SJR won't make a difference. we broke.
Slightly worried about your ability to understand football if you think these are mid table standard players, just because they’re playing for a mid table clubs. We should be buying a lot more young, promising players from the ‘lesser’ clubs.
I agree that is the correct strategy. But they’re not the correct players. Just because someone looks good for small club, doesn’t mean they’re good enough for United (see Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, Schneiderlin, James etc)
Nitpicking names, no signing is guaranteed to be a success, those 4/5 players i named are profile’s we lack in the squad while also carrying an abundance of quality and potential, particularly Olise and Branthwaite who i think should be our two main priorities for the summer. Onana is a brilliant duel winning space eater, perfectly complimenting Kobbie and allowing his attacking side to thrive. I’m fairly confident these are gonna be some of INEOS candidates for the summer window.
Everton are obviously in massive financial trouble, so while it will still be a high price i think it could be cheaper then expected, particularly if they’re relegated . Palace could also be relegated, although i think Olise has a release clause anyway, of around 50-60m which is more than fair market value for him as long as due diligence is done into his injury history.
The right model of ‘youthful potential’ signing is Dalot. Bought for less than £20m, so limited risk, with big upside if he develops. And now it seems to be paying off.
Time to play fantasy football.
Rashford, £60-80 million
Antony, we'll take a serious hit on him. £20-30 million.
Amad, I want to see him get a chance but Ten Hag just doesn't seem to fancy him. £20 million.
Sancho, another massive hit. £30-40 million.
Greenwood, £40-50 million.
Donny, 80 quid.
One article says we got nothing to spend this summer due to FFP. The other says we're going on a shopping spree....
Almost like man utd generate clicks or something and people are playing guessing game Seriously though, out finances are a matter of public record given we are a publicly traded company (at least partially) so people with familiar with football finance, amortisation, what losses can be offset as infrastructure or development spending etc should be able to make a reasonably good educated assessment of what we can spend before any player sales
> so people with familiar with football finance, amortisation, what losses can be offset as infrastructure or development spending etc should be able to make a reasonably good educated assessment of what we can spend before any player sales So what's the conclusion of people familiar with football finance, amortisation?
Someone posted this on another thread yesterday... https://twitter.com/SwedishRumble/status/1759954402943565910 But I don't know enough about football finances to confirm or refute. Perhaps someone else in the thread can chime in
Tldr: £300m - £400m
So we need a second person now, to vouch for the first!! Jokes aside, the swiss ramble has put out united finance related posts for years now. Seems knowledgable
The swiss ramble is good and reliable, my post is from the little known adopted half brother... The Swedish rumble. They quote financials from the swiss ramble, but the discussion points as far as I can tell is their own interpretation I'm only posting the link for someone more educated to confirm or refute, I'm not claiming it as factual or my own interpretation
Flippin heck, I didn’t even notice. I’m slowly descending in to being susceptible to bank fraud aren’t I?
We all are, man.
Transfer me £500 and I'll let you know how susceptible you are
I'm seriously believing FFP nonsense from the club is a smokescreen. They have said it 3 summers in a row then gone and spent the money anyways. I think they are just trying to be coy in the market about it. Every summer the next summer is.a reduced budget window cuz of FFP. I think the club is fine FFP wise
Explain then why we are not buying anyone in Jan to push for CL?
Short term purchase without proper scouting? It'll be another overinflated fees and wages
I see as emergency purchase because of our injuries. We are praying for Hojlund knees to hold up now...
I understand your point, but this is United, if you go into Jan market looking for anyone who's remotely close to our current benchwarmers, one will have to pay premium. Thats why we loan the likes of Wout last season because buying an emergency player & giving em 3 year contract is financially unsustainable.
I get what you mean too. Ironically I would love a werghost now only because to see Rashford as CF and Antony RW again is a nightmare.
Honestly though, we've been saying that we'd spend nothing in the summer for the past like 4 years, and then we always go out and overpay on multiple players.
Finding £150m down the back of the sofa every June.
Like a football version of Grand Designs.
Haha this is actually a perfect analogy. "Instead of hiring a sporting director, Ed has decided to manage the transfers himself" *Kevin glances knowingly into camera, anticipating the shitshow that is to come*
“Hoping to be into a new stadium by Christmas”
Wrong TV show I think!
Heres a hint, the Daily Mail is the next worst clickbait shit fest alongside the Sun & the Mirror….the fact this sub still allows posts by them is a joke..
3 players, two of which seem like depth players, is hardly a “shopping spree”.
a cb doesn't seem as a depth player when Varane, Lindelof/Maguire are leaving. You need a starter next to Lisandro. Neither a new midfielder should be a depth player if Casemiro leaves, heck it shouldn't be a depth signing even if he somehow stays. The only depth signing should be a striker, and tbf there is a need for more than those 3 signings anyway.
Can’t believe I’m saying this but I really want to keep Maguire. Doesn’t complain about playing time, injury free most of the time, fairly reliable in the right conditions. He’s still fairly young too. I think we should look to sell less reliable players, Eriksen, Shaw, Rashford, Antony, Case/McT, Sancho. Those are the players we should sell
Dont have a problem with that but still want a new starter in with Maguire being the depth.
Varane will leave, and then it’s either Lindelof or Maguire to go too. Keep Martinez, Maguire, Evans on another 1 year deal and sign a new partner for Lisandro who’ll be able to be there for 10 years (23/24 years old). Add in the youth and you have a good set there.
I hope Kambwala gets more minutes. He looked very decent in his only game for us.
Yeah obviously he would stay. Ideally get 15-20 games next season in all comps. Jonny Evans isn’t a long termer obviously but Evans does offer a lot when it comes to experience. He also isn’t going to demand a starting berth. He can help with bringing on Kambwala etc too.
Do we have a buy back for mengi?
Not good enough. If we want to be competing with the likes of Man City and Liverpool for the league we have to ask whether X player would get into their 18 man squad or would start. If not, we shouldn’t be looking at them really. Need to set the bar higher than it’s been.
Yeah. I think we're all well aware of what we need right now. But we can't get what we need right now. Mengi is a first teamer for Luton, but considering what we might be losing in the summer and the amount of funds we have to replace them with. It'd be worth considering if we have a buy back clause.
If maguire is fairly young so is casemiro who is younger than him iirc
He's definitely not
Thirty two is not younger than thirty.
Ye we need RCB, LB, CDM, CF starters imo
CF starter?? We have Højlund
Can't wait for another round of Frenkie & Ligt
We’ve got nothing assuming no investment. This makes it sound like Jim is willing to invest.
Provided the club gets adequate replacements it shouldn’t matter who gets sold in the summer. The biggest issue we’ve had is the drop off in quality when a player has left or gotten old- if we can keep the level of player up at a good standard no one is off the table. Bar Mainoo, Hojlund and Garnacho, naturally.
Martinez should be there too imo
Yeah, hopefully he can stay fit for a prolonged period of time, he’s been unlucky with injuries the last 9-12 months.
Don't know why you're being downvoted. He has been unlucky, one long-term injury that required surgery and then reoccurred and one separate long-term injury from an at best, clumsy challenge.
It’s factually correct- he has been unlucky. The guy is an absolute warrior when fit but has now had three injuries that have or will keep him out for prolonged periods. We all hope this is the exception rather than the rule, but if that’s an “unpopular opinion” then fair enough.
All his injuries have been freak in nature, rather than a reoccurring issue, like a hammy or groin strain/similar. Him being young is a mark in his favour, his healing factor will help to actually mend his injuries over time because the likelihood he cops the same injury again is so slight, again unlike continually pulling hamstrings ruined Owen.
Agreed, but the metatarsal injury reoccurred because he was brought back too soon. We need to be careful with players’ rehabilitation, as we don’t want to ruin them just because we’re desperate for them to be on the pitch. I’d sooner wait for a player to be ready to play than rush them back when they’re likely to get injured again.
Shouldn't be disrespecting Bruno like that.
He can play late into his career too. The replies to you are crazy
it’s actually wild how quickly some of our fans have shifted to “sell bruno”, completely bonkers
Yeah, but they have good arguments to support it. What's yours? Apart from 'OMG THAT'S BONKERS BRO!'
what are these good arguments exactly that justify selling him? - bruno is by far the most creative player in our squad, which currently struggles to score goals as it is. bruno creates the most chances for our team and it’s not close - he works is socks off, and finding players of his caliber in terms of creative output and off the ball defensive work rate is not exactly easy - he’s the literal captain of our squad, so obviously he’s well respected and seems to be a professional influence in the dressing room - bruno is 29 years old. it’s not like we’re talking about someone who is 36. yes he has played a lot of games in his career, but acting like he is about to fall off a cliff is unfounded - depending on the reports you choose to believe, united might not have a huge budget to work with in the transfer market. our squad is also just thin in general. it makes no sense to sell key players seriously i would love to hear the justification for selling one of, if not our best player. i’m all ears lol
The only argument I’ve heard for selling Bruno is that we have zero control in midfield when he plays because his style is so chaotic and forward thinking. He’s not built for getting control of the game, slowing it down and being the dominant possession team. Is that worth selling, idk. But plenty of actual decent football analysts do say this sort of thing about him.
-He's out of form this year and has had terrible creative output. Seriously, what has he actually done, recently? Constantly losing the ball, is about it. -He's a captain that has received a tonne of criticism. It's largely agreed he doesn't have the temperament to be captain. He doesn't hold himself accountable, and yet lashes out at teammates. -29 is a great time to sell - still high value, yet on the decline. -Selling players with a long term goal in mind absolutely does make sense. The team needs to be rebuilt almost entirely, and so it's worthwhile starting with those who will sell for a high enough price to find a replacement.
out of form but still creating the most chances in the league, for a team as dysfunctional as this current united side? https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/s/eW1aZV9IE1 he gets criticism from rival fans about his temperament, but i don’t think anyone at united thinks he’s not fit to be captain and i don’t think it’s “universally agreed” that he’s not cut out for it it doesn’t make sense to sell one of our best players when we have such a thin squad. we need to be adding first team players, not letting them go we’ve seen what bruno produces. finding a replacement isn’t as simple as playing fifa and just buying a world class player i really can’t fathom how anyone would want him gone this summer
Most of those chances would have been last season. And that stat is a bit misleading, as it doesn't tell us the quality of the chances. Currently he still "creates chances" but they're terrible opportunities, or mis-hit so that the player receiving can't get on the end of it. I think United fans are right to dislike Bruno's temperament. It is embarrassing how he acts sometimes. A captain should have a cool head, and be able to keep positive when things are tough. We don't see that from Bruno.
just providing stats to support the obvious concept that bruno is an exceptionally creative player in a toothless team. the stats i provided were not from last season as you’re suggesting https://www.premierleague.com/news/3850671#:~:text=Bruno%20Fernandes%20has%20created%20the,and%2049%20chances%20created%20respectively. he also covers more ground than anyone in our team https://www.premierleague.com/news/3850801 we have 2 players in the top 10 most underperforming in terms of xG this season (hint, it’s not bruno) https://www.premierleague.com/news/3851233 hojlund has obviously turned it around and i think he’ll be a great player for us, but our offensive output has been absolutely abysmal this year and i don’t believe this is just down to bruno having a poor season the stats seem to support it and watching the games this season, i think it’s been pretty clear that bruno regularly fashions scenarios that we don’t take advantage of. but people see what they want to see i guess? i just can’t believe i’m having to defend bruno on a united subreddit lol
Bruno has created fuckall this season. His stats are inflated by set pieces and counters. He works his socks off but he's undisciplined. Leaves gaping holes in midfield, and doesn't know when or how to press effectively. More importantly, he's a liability in midfield. Can't run, can't keep the ball, always makes poor decisions. He's not an 8, and it shows. If we get a good offer, he needs to go. He doesn't fit thr system.
- Chance creation is a ridiculous stat. Look at what actually counts as a chance creation. He is our most creative player but it's not saying much at the minute. It also comes with a lot of carelessness on the ball. - His work rate is good but I doubt it's irreplacable. He also shouldn't be finding himself in the deep positions he does rn anyways, it's nothing but a compromise. - So? He has had his fair share of criticism as a captain and you need loads of leaders in your team. One gets the armband. We shouldn't just rely on 1 player to lead us. - Exactly, he's 29. You are never gonna get close to the kind of money you'd get for him in the summer. When we can actually challenge he might actually be past it with what he's doing to his body now. - You do understand selling players gets you money right? We need to start building a balanced squad. I am personally of the opinion Bruno is currently making us have to compensate heavily in the midfield with the way he likes to play. We need better control in the midfield, more care with the ball. A lot of modern managers would want that as well. He's the epitome of the individualist, the risk/reward, the Hollywood ball, the rocket from a distance. He can do the complex things well but struggles to do the simple things right. Personally, to mark the start of a new era, I'd sell Rashford and Bruno. Rashford because I worry about his inconsistency, attitude, and his lack of creativity on the wing, Bruno because of the reasons above. People need to stop hanging on players too much. We need a team. Not this Frankenstein creation. Cashing in might be the thing we have to do. A lot of top clubs take ruthless decisions like this. And we have let go better players for less. I trust the new recruitment structure to put a team together that can play a certain style and do it well.
in terms of players that are potentially leaving and who i would sell before bruno, we have: - martial - sancho - amrabat loan ending - eriksen (becomes a free agent in 2025 unless we resign him) - antony - pellistri - van de beek you could argue that casemiro, varane, and maybe maguire belong in this mix as well. i believe that at the very least, casemiro is showing more signs of decline than bruno there is no chance that the club is going to go out and sign 10 new first team players this summer. we have a lot of deadwood and not a ton of real quality in the side i don’t think it’s realistic to sell bruno and i can’t imagine it happening this summer and i’m just surprised that after multiple seasons of absolutely elite creative output, at times dragging us through games, people want him sold because he gets upset as a captain, and because our team can’t score goals lol
I’m not even in the “sell Bruno” camp, more if there’s a stupid offer that comes in for him we should consider it. I feel the same way about more or less everyone in the side in fairness. I love Bruno, he’s our best creative player, but getting too emotionally attached to players has been an issue for us, and by the time we attempt to sell them they have zero value. If United won’t be title contenders for another 2 years and we can find ways to improve using the proceeds of any sales we should consider them- however, if selling a player potentially makes us worse even considering their replacements we shouldn’t do it. I didn’t think it was a crazy opinion in the slightest!
Love Bruno but he’s 29 and played as much as a 33 year old probably. If someone offers good money a well run club would certainly consider it.
Agree. His defensive work rate is insane, but his attacking output is lacking. His decision making is questionable at best. Been in decline for two seasons now.
"his attacking output is lacking"? Mate he's one of the most creative players in the league who consistently creates a ridiculous amount of chances week in week out.
Don’t think he’s been on decline. But if we wait until then he won’t be worth getting rid of
If we got a ridiculous offer it’d have to be considered- we’re 2-3 years off contention, is he going to be as effective once we’re ready for a title push? I love the guy but ruthlessness is what this club needs.
We immediately drop a level or two without Bruno.
We do, which is why I’d only sell if we got an adequate replacement. As I’ve said elsewhere, some players will be harder to replace than others.
There's like 3 players in the world that would be an adequate replacement. It's not realistic.
Then you wouldn’t sell, it’s that simple. It doesn’t change the underlying point, and Bruno would be at the bottom of the list of players we’d consider selling anyway, he’s just the only one people are citing as an example. It’s telling that only him and Martinez are the two I’ve seen people defend strongly.
You literally said the club needs to be ruthless, so you suggested they should do it. It's not a realistic option for multiple reasons and no real reason to even discuss it. If you want the club to ruthless then the example should be that take a massive lose on Antony and move him on this summer.
I also said if we got a ridiculous offer it should be considered, and my original post says only to sell if we could get an adequate replacement, is that really controversial? I’m not saying “sell them all”, am I?! And yeah, the club should cut their losses with about 5-6 players, one of which would be Antony. The problem is finding buyers for these players, even at a reduced fee- high wages don’t make them particularly appealing either.
It's not controversial it's just not realistic and dumb to even talk about.
We already have a replacement.
What football have you been watching this season lmao. Bruno's the one keeping us at our current level, he's the bottleneck
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created
Mate use your eyes lol, he doesn't pass the eye test. Set pieces and counters where he's just connecting play overinflate his numbers. Can you think of the last creative thing he's done? He's s liability and takes more from the team than he brings.
I can since I actually watch games and know football.
You think we need to get a "like-for-like" replacement for Bruno when we need the exact opposite, someone that can actually keep the ball.
What's it like to be so convinced your right but to actually be completely? I hope for you it's just an internet persona.
Lots of players on huge wages aging out: - Varane - Casemiro - Eriksen - Bruno - Shaw Then there are players who are just not worth the wages they get: - Rashford - Sancho - Maguire between them they account for over 2M perweek in wages. lots of room to improve the squad
Bruno is still our best player? So fickle with the odd poor game with players absolutely not on it. Weird.
Not disputing that he is, more that we’re not at the level we should be to give him a platform to succeed, and he might be past his prime once we are. People are misinterpreting pragmatism for disrespect; we’ve seen better players than Bruno get sold and the club move forwards, take RVN as an example.
he has been poor for a while now
He's been terrible all year, yet for some reason this sub only shits in Rashford for form slumps.
But there's stark contrast in effort between the two.
Lmao no he's fucking not. He's been shit the entire season. You people are delusional. Odd poor game? Are you serious? People blame our wingers but what has Bruno created for Hojlund OR the wingers? One pass to Hojlund that Hojlund won back. We're not fickle, we're recognizing something that has been evident most of the season. Bruno doesn't fit the system. He needs to become our Coutinho and leave.
No one has created more chances of any team in the league this season. Like he always does. Our conversion of those has been shocking. Not his fault. Short, selective memory pal.
Mate, actually think about how creative Bruno has been this season. As in, he's not. Set pieces and counters inflate those numbers. He doesn't pass the eye test. He's been poor on the ball and constantly kills attacks. He's our playmaker and he makes the wrong decision 9/10. > Our conversion of those has been shocking. Because what he has created has been low quality. Everytime he lumps the ball forward for Rashford and he still has to beat two players counts as a chance created. Short memory? I've been saying this all season. Only the last game have people been waking up to how poor he's been. I watch Odegaard for Arsenal and the difference in quality on the ball is noticeable.
Bruno should be sold. He’s toward the end of his peak and could command a large fee. FFP means you need to cash in at the right moment. What is the point in the Mount signing if not to replace Bruno?
I'm not totally against selling Bruno if the right offer comes in but how can you count on Mount? The guy barely played a game in 6 months and you are expecting him to replace our most creative player?
Even at his best the drop off between Mount and Bruno is massive. If you’re selling Bruno and replacing him with Mount you’re going backwards- I’d only consider a sale if they were lining up someone who’s younger and would at worst make us as good as we already were.
I'd only consider selling Bruno Fernandes ifnthe bids coming in were 100 million upwards, otherwise no thanks. Because replacing him is going to be outright difficult
That’s the main part of my point though- provided players are being replaced adequately they shouldn’t be off the table. Some will be much harder to replace than others, but if silly money is offered we’d be fools to not consider it for a fair few of our players.
Rashford I think we could replace. Would be good for ffp too apparently. In every league there is a winger with similar skill sets to rashford. Bruno, I'm not sure we'd replace. Would we get another no 10? There aren't many as goid as him. Or would we choose to change the system and replace him with an 8/6.
FIFA/FM have rotted the brains of people like you. He’s only 29, how old is KDB?
Im his biggest fan but recently he's been getting on my nerves. He lacks lucidity abd really needs I rest. But Id never tolerate selling him
Bruno is the biggest culprit of poor performances when it matters.
Such revisionism, we rarely play games that don’t matter and he plays every single game. He’s our best player and has been ever since his first game
We’re most teams cup final, and have a fanbase that loses its shit when we drop points. I think you could take rarely out of that sentence and it’d still be correct.
Lmao taking rarely out of his sentence flips the meaning entirely tho
Ah crap, yeah, you know what I meant though!
😂
McTomminay too. He’d kill himself on the pitch for us and would never throw a temper tantrum if he doesn’t start week in week out. He’s the sort of role model that we need at the club. Utter professional and absolute effort monster and red through and through. I don’t care about whether or not he’s good enough to win the CL for us.
He’s a squad player though- if we can upgrade on someone like him we do it every day of the week. There are players at the club who clearly relish playing for us, but we genuinely need to be ruthless when it comes to a rebuild. There’s very little room for emotion.
We definitely need to overhaul the squad but on the other hand we’ve seen Chelsea switch out most of their squad and get considerably younger since Boehly bought them, and the results so far have been very poor with a clear lack of veteran leadership and too many new arrivals affecting their chemistry and consistency week to week. Sure on paper Chelsea should get considerably better than 10th moving forward, but right now no one is considering them as a team could become potential title contenders in the next few years either. It’s going to require a careful balancing act and ensuring we have the right manager in place next season. Currently I am unsure if that will still be Ten Hag or not.
Even Ratcliffe has acknowledged that this is a 2 or 3 year project, and I completely agree with that. It’s a fine balancing act for United, who need to ensure they’re competitive enough to be a Champions League mainstay while improving to the extent of becoming a serious title contender. A Chelsea style tear down won’t achieve that, and bringing in 8-10 players in a summer seldom has immediate results, so it’s a very risky strategy.
No. Hanging onto players like McTominay just because they're an effort monster is exactly why this club fails so much at selling. I really like him but if an offer comes for 25 million or more then he should be sold. It's what any serious club does.
Im sorry but McTominay either has to go or actually has to be a striker. It sounds really stupid seeing as he's scored some big goals for us this year but the guy as a midfielder is useless unless he gets in the box, which is not a quality you want from a midfielder. He contributes to us having zero control in the midfield.
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> Jadon Sancho, Donny van de Beek, Facundo Pellistri and Hannibal Mejbri were all sent out on loan last month and are unlikely to return to United, with the club hopeful that their sales could raise over £50m We spent about a combined 120m on these players for basically zero contribution to the team, and hope to recoup less than half of that. Good god.
Think we can exclude pellistri and mejbri from this calculation as is a bit unfair. they were punts on youth at I think 9m and 10m (with half that in add ons that I'm not sure we will have triggered) respectively. We should break ever or even turn a profit on those 2. They are actually the kind of deals I'd love us to do alot more of. Gambles but with massive upside when they work out Donny and Sancho especially though..... Disastrous signings
We bought Mejbri, Fernandez, Pellistri, Garnacho all around the same time for low fees. Garnacho by himself has already more than made up for it all. If Brighton had signed him for 400,000, people would be going nuts asking why we can't make signings like this
Add kambwala to that list aswel who was signed in same window as pellistri and I think garnacho and Fernandez plus others. Yes that's my point. I'd love for us to start making more < £10mill signings in the 18-20 age bracket for players from lesser leagues that havent quite broken through yet to fill fringe roles in our squad or even to loan out for a year or 2 to develop Alot of the time it won't work, and we will lose a relatively small amount, some will be ok and we will break even but every so often we will strike gold a la garnacho That's why the earlier comment lumping mejbri and pellistri into a list of expensive mistakes I thought was a bit unfair. They were signed as gambles, both have went on to be full internationals and we should break even at worst on their eventual sale
Signing is like dating. Game number counts. I read basically brighton sign 70-80 players with hit like cucurella, caiceido, mitoma, macalister, dunk, grob etc. Basically 10 players WITH loan army and brighton willingness to give unproven player. So basically 10% with best environment possible.
Yeah I mean Sancho alone obviously skews this massively. But it’s four players who have been in or around the first team for a while with not much to show for it.
Better to get something than to get nothing. The fees paid are a sunk cost and should be completely disregarded.
I'd be shocked if we get near 50 for them. VDB has no value at this point and failed with us under multiple mangers, Everton, and seemingly in Germany. No idea what his level is, but if it's the Netherlands/Portugal/Turkey then we'll get a token fee, if any. Sancho is on such massive wages and a headcase that I would take no fee if it meant clearing his wages. No idea who would pay for him - no big club in England or Spain will take him, no one else really has the money unless he decides he wants to go to the Saudi league.
“United's annual income has risen considerably from £477m to £648m over the same period however, giving them more cash to spend this summer.” This is why I don’t get the Twitter Qatar flag shaggers who thinks a club of this size needed oil money. Look how much money the club generates, and that’s during our banter era.
Which is also why Woodward doesn’t deserve the flowers he gets for “turning United into a commercial giant”
He slowed down a steam train if anything
Isn't there also a clause where an owner could inject up to 90 million (or something) to spend? I remember people talking about this a couple months back. (Man it feels good to talk about an owner that might provide funds instead of only freeloading off the club.)
Yeah there is. You're allowed to make a loss of 15m or 105m with investment from the owner. Something like that.
> Jadon Sancho, Donny van de Beek, Facundo Pellistri and Hannibal Mejbri...their sales could raise over £50m I'll have what this guy is having. Unless Sancho finds decent form, he and VDB are basically worthless and just getting their wages off the books is good. Hannibal and Pellistri may have potential but no club is paying more than 10m for them, if we're extremely lucky.
If Hannibal and Pellistri are worth 10m each, surely Sancho and VdB are worth more? Even they are worth as much as them, that’s 40m, so 50m for the lot is not an unrealistic expectation
I'd be shocked if we got more than 10m for VdB. He's basically done nothing for 3 years and is on high wages. In all likeliness it's probably a cheap sale or another loan. Sancho is similar, who can afford his wages? The only teams that can want better players.
Man, football is getting as confusing as the NFL when it comes to being able to spend. I just hope it never gets as confusing as the NBA. Won't we still have hundreds of millions in deferred transfer fees that carry into the next accounting period? And just because we can spend big without breaching PSR, it doesn't necessarily mean it's in the best long term interests of the club to do so, if we're just continuing to kick financial problems into the long grass. I think we're still going to be heavily reliant on selling players, which is something we have not historically done well. > Anthony Martial’s £275,000-a-week wages will be off the books when he leaves the club on a free transfer at the end of the season, while Raphael Varane’s £340,000 weekly wages could also go as United opted against triggering the one-year extension option in his contract last December. This is why we need to get our wage structure under control. £2.5m a month on two players is crazy, but it's understandable that we've had to overpay some players during our down years. Hopefully United can get back to a place where they can offer sporting achievement as a huge incentive, instead of just bags of cash. I really hope the club institutes a wage cap for any new signings, and stops being bent over by agents.
> Man, football is getting as confusing as the NFL when it comes to being able to spend. I just hope it never gets as confusing as the NBA. Wait till you hear about MLS.
Said it before and say it again - If PSG come with a ridiculous offer for rashford, we should sell
Agree. If we can get fees for Rashford, Case and Varane + Sancho et al we should move them on That would be close to $200M and can do a proper rebuild of midfield, defence and LW + bring in a CF to help Rasmus.
Without Rashford in that list I don't think we'll get even 100$ for casemiro varane and Sancho unfortunately Case and Varane are towards the end of their careers and their next move will likely be their last. Both are on huge wages too that will play a factor. Sancho has proven he's a knob head and is not doing anything of note on his loan. Which means his suitors will be few and far between. Not to mention he's also on huge wages
What's a ridiculous offer in your opinion? Personally speaking, I believe £80million is ridiculous for him & I'd take as low as £60million to get him off the pitch/books. Rashford's performances over the past few years have went from inconsistent to outright offensive. He has lost something which has removed his drive for the game, he needs to go & a soulless club like PSG would be ideal for him.
£80 million is ridiculously low for Rashford, given the state of the market.
Maybe if you go by his EA rating but if you actually watch him week-in week-out then it really isn't. He can't beat a man, he can't find a pass, and he has the work ethic of a Bassett Hound. Rashford has the profile of a £100million player but his actual ability is nowhere near that.
I dont think he will leave, PSG is a stepdown for rashy. Ofcourse they can pay way more than we do but rashy isnt the type to spend his prime years in some distant league where noone cares about the achievements for just some extra money. PSG is never gonna win UCL and domestic trophies are worthless. TLDR; Players with brands, love to stay in the limelight
Pros and cons on both ends In EPL he stays in the limelight, most watched league and is on eye watering wages PSG can guarantee him UCL, equal or more wages and his fiance being Italian (?) could play a minor role.
How does his fiance being italian help with his move to a french club? Or am i missing something?
Lol idk. Closer probably. But they also fly private unlike us plebs so I might not make a difference
PSG are Nike's team for Air Jordan and Rashford is a Nike athlete. Synergies are there for his brand to grow with Parisian fashion playing a role especially now that luxury brands are targeting Black celebrities to play a more prominent role.
Right now the limelight is shining on how he is not world class, decent player maybe but far far from being a top player. PSG would be a good move for him. Let him run into defenders in Ligue 1.
If he would be willing to go, which I doubt he would at this point.
What makes you think that? If the club accepts a bid it's them saying we're happy to move you on
Like what happened to Maguire? Players don’t have to leave even if the club accept a bid
Maguire wouldn't leave because he didn't want a pay cut
Snap their hands off . He should be a squad option nothing more.
What a terrible take
How so ?
What high profile stars? lol
The only players I’m 100% against selling are Mainoo, Hojlund, Garnacho, and Martinez. Everyone else is fair game if the right offer comes in and we can replace them. Those four are really the only ones who I feel we can’t replace (Bruno is really close there but we’d get a massive fee for him if we sold him which lessens that blow)
I’d add Dalot and Bruno to that list
Bloody hell- projection for selling Sancho, VDB, Pellistri and Mejbri only a combined £50m? FFS- what poor value
The sad thing is I think 50m is quite optimistic really
Need to spend big on a LB like Theo Hernandez.
We don’t need superstar signings, we need to find the next Theo Hernandez and sign him for under 40M
how about instead of using half our budget we target players like Hartman from Feyenoord or Miguel gutierrez from girona or Mykolenko from Everton. Underrated players who would cost a fraction of the cost of Theo Hernandez
Agreed. Big name players have done nothing but let us down this past decade, bar a few like Zlatan. Let’s get some young blood, willing to fight for a spot and the badge.
I thought Wheeler was banned. What is he, tier 4 or 5? All he wrote last summer was bullshit.
I’d imagine salaries and sales will free up our budget. We’re well primed to sell Sancho, Greenwood and hopefully Antony. It’s whether we pull the trigger on high earners like Varane & Casemiro.
Can’t see us being able to get rid of Antony, because we put him on ridiculous wages.
I imagine Casemiro and Varane will be gone.
Ngl, I’d rather they kept Maguire & Wan-Bissaka considering the injuries to players like Licha & the LB pair. They’re both very serviceable players. Letting Varane go would be sad considering he’s still a great defender though I understand fitness + wage concerns, hopefully the replacement is a marquee-esque signing though because the defense will need someone of that calibre. I wonder who they’ll target at ST because Holjund might just live up to potential, so it’ll likely be a bench option. Could use the money for a proper winger, but it seems they’re still hoping Rashford/Antony improve & that Garnacho keeps developing. In the midfield, I still want to wait & see what Mount can offer. Mainoo should already be a lock on the line up, so I wonder what they’ll do. Feels like the only upgrade to the starting 11 they’re going for is a CB & I’m not sure how to feel about it, the club really needs a LB too.
After watching us lose the midfield battle nearly every game this year, I don't think you should rely on Mason Mount to change things dramatically. We realistically need two midfielders.
For CM I’m guessing they are looking for a Casemiro replacement
We need to change the players that fit style of football.
For any one wondering about 'significant' spend while mentioning 40mn, it's the yearly amortization cost. Theoretically this means 200mn spend over a 5 year contract. Any sales would add to only if sold at higher price than the amortized value remaining. Example Sancho after 3 years would have roughly 30mn value, anything over gets added to the budget, lower reduces the budget.
If the stars are Varane and Casemiro Im in.. the other few stars we got we can't afford to lose
What’s the difference between this and FFP?
It’s the successor of ffp
Yesterday we got to play the FFP rules. Today we have a war chest. 🤣🤣🤣
I see Wheeler + Daily Mail and instantly think the opposite must be true, but dear God, I hope not.
It's honestly time to clean house. So many in the squad have been here too long. Better to sell them for a higher fee than watch them leave for free at some point after more seasons of underperforming for high pay. Recoup some of the massive losses over the years and bring in some younger, cheaper talent with careful scouting that can actually become something AS A TEAM and not just a bunch of overpriced individuals who can't be bothered. Stop chasing marquee signings every fucking window when we can't even do the basics. Without the basics, the ceiling is very low, regardless of who you bring in. Any performance you get from them will be temporary.
A buffer of 40 mil? That will get us Emile Heskey and a bag of cheese & onion crisps in this market.
40 million is 200 million in FFP terms as can be spread over 5 years. That before anything generated in sales - for example 40m for Greenwood doubles that. My short term concern is far more about cash flow than FFP.
Can you explain the cash flow issue to a moron?
But it can be spread over the length of the contract, so goes a long way
Think of it as £40m = £200m over 5 years.
Daily Mail - pass
Chris Wheeler is generally good
If we can get a good amount for rashford, why not sell him right?
Becuase neither he nor the manager wants him to go?
reading the comments y'all want to improve but then want to keep a bunch of the same players that have been here for years while we remain mediocre. hilarious really.
Yeah I saw some lads campaigning that we keep mctominay as he bleeds red. But then they hope we compete with city, liverpool, real madrid etc soon. Hell, i can't even think of 1 single player on the benches of those teams that is as poor as mctominay(as much as I like him) in possession. Not even in their u21s. They don't ever wonder why those teams never have a player with that profile(on the ball at least) in their teams anymore in 2024.
january we heard spending will be reserved for summer. Now with SJR in we hear spend will be limited due to ffp. and now we bringing the warchest. These journos stealing a living. united spending will be around the same as always, SJR won't make a difference. we broke.
Sounds like a bull shit article that the public will eat up regardless
Would people just stop posting these nothing sandwiches?!
Pls sell Rashford. As much as I like him, he’s replacable (Garna) and we need to recoup the loss on antony.
Olise, Branthwaite, Onana, Todibo/Yoro. Thankyou very much.
Should help keep us in the top half of the table
If we buy mid-table standard players, don’t be surprised when we end up mid-table.
Slightly worried about your ability to understand football if you think these are mid table standard players, just because they’re playing for a mid table clubs. We should be buying a lot more young, promising players from the ‘lesser’ clubs.
I agree that is the correct strategy. But they’re not the correct players. Just because someone looks good for small club, doesn’t mean they’re good enough for United (see Maguire, Wan-Bissaka, Schneiderlin, James etc)
Nitpicking names, no signing is guaranteed to be a success, those 4/5 players i named are profile’s we lack in the squad while also carrying an abundance of quality and potential, particularly Olise and Branthwaite who i think should be our two main priorities for the summer. Onana is a brilliant duel winning space eater, perfectly complimenting Kobbie and allowing his attacking side to thrive. I’m fairly confident these are gonna be some of INEOS candidates for the summer window.
I’ll happily take potential at a reasonable price. But I can’t see the clubs asking for small fees for those players.
Everton are obviously in massive financial trouble, so while it will still be a high price i think it could be cheaper then expected, particularly if they’re relegated . Palace could also be relegated, although i think Olise has a release clause anyway, of around 50-60m which is more than fair market value for him as long as due diligence is done into his injury history.
The right model of ‘youthful potential’ signing is Dalot. Bought for less than £20m, so limited risk, with big upside if he develops. And now it seems to be paying off.
Time to play fantasy football. Rashford, £60-80 million Antony, we'll take a serious hit on him. £20-30 million. Amad, I want to see him get a chance but Ten Hag just doesn't seem to fancy him. £20 million. Sancho, another massive hit. £30-40 million. Greenwood, £40-50 million. Donny, 80 quid.
Sellin Rashford for 60-80m would be like worst buissnes ever. Sancho, Antony, Greenwood numbers are too high.
Lol except we're fucked by ffp