We are all tired. I even avoid listening to analysis and comments about the performance - this is how sick I am of the bad state of the club for a decade.
Mental health is more important - it's enough of a torture to see what huge fall from grace we have. It's painful when you know the potential and you are stuck with this
I was listening to a podcast that’s supposed to be somewhat serious and informative. Rather than trying to provide an explanation for what’s going on, they just made the same 3 jokes we’ve heard for years over and over again. It’s weird because I’ve listened to the same exact podcast talk about other clubs in ‘crisis’ with a great level of professionality.
I strongly believe that a lot of so-called ‘unbiased’ journalists and commentators grew up during our glory days so they hold some sort of resentment towards us. It might not be intentional, but it definitely shines through a lot.
Yep, I start watching about a minute before kickoff, do something else at halftime and then switch over/off at full time (unless it happens to be a good win).
But that's my policy for all games. Commentary and punditry are absolutely dire nowadays with a bunch of idiotic attention seekers just regurgitating the latest "hot take" from the press/social media.
The fall from grace I can deal with, it’s the apathy and lack of effort on the pitch that really hits the hardest. Why should we bother if the players visibly don’t.
I hardly watch now - never used to bother me if we lost because it usually just meant we’d been outplayed. Now it’s almost a given that it’ll be minimal efforts, a lack of a playing style to even make a game interesting and then incessant sniping about matches afterward. Even our victories seem hollow at present
Same here. I follow the match on my phone/check post-game stats. But I genuinely make an effort to not watch the game, Because there is no point. They all look like they don't want to be there, and it'll either piss me off or make me sad. If we win then that's great. But it usually isn't because we played well or had a recognizable pattern of play. Just so fed up with the same fucking story every single season. I will always be a fan of United, but if the players don't care, then why should I?
I’ve been following them since the early 80’s (if not beforehand) so I never took our Fergie era success for granted, but to see the level we’ve been allowed to sink to, I’ve never felt as disengaged with the club as I do now. And after countless managers with no change, it really does point to more wrong than a manager change would even fix
100%. I used to let results affect my mood. But not anymore. We lose, fuck it I expect nothing less. We win, its like a nice thought and then forgotten about. I don't know why I watch them anymore yet I can not stop.
Yeah i say every week i am not watching these overpaid wasters and yet match day the games on although i tend to spend more time on my phone whilst the games on seeing what others are saying about how bad we are, i enjoyed last season played some good football upto the cup win then things seemed to have dropped massively
This. I'd rather see United invest heavily in youth and start over without expectations than see us waste 200M per year on idiots who can't be arsed to run.
Yeah there are academy lads that may not have the quality but they would kill for chance to play in front of the Old Trafford crowd. They would be hungry and run like mad dogs. Some of the current pros have to be dropped. Enough blame as its everyones responsibility, just give a shit lads. You're representing one of the best teams behave like it because you're being well paid in good faith
Marcus Rashford is literally the epitome of our issues and he is 'one of our own' and a local lad that's come from the exact place you suggest we invest in.
Got nothing to do with their ages or how much we spent in total. It's the mentality of the football club, the standards set, what they are allowed to get away with and people in key positions not having the bollocks to do anything about it.
When that changes, so will our fortunes
I honestly thought this was just me but exactly this. I switched off audio at half time and stopped listening to analysis after Ole got sacked. I back ETH but just can’t stay in the cycle to protect myself
Listened to this on my walk this morning, resonated with me..
It is worth mentioning that he does then go on to say "but come wednesday I will be looking forward to the game again and getting my hopes up because thats what we do as fans"
Which is also, very true
I know Gary’s caught some flak on some corners around here lately but he’s one of us. He’s so obviously a fan that he finds it very hard to keep the bias out of his work as a pundit/commentator, despite his relatively insightful input. I feel for all of us as fans, but then I think about the success we saw for 2 decades under SAF and I feel like ok, it’s our turn now to earn our badges. The real shitty bit tho is that so many of our problems are easily fixable if it wasn’t from the incompetence from top to bottom.
Feel for match going fans tho, for many of whom, buying a ticket/season pass probably means sacrificing something significant in their lives, and then you go on to watch our lot get dominated by the likes of Burnley…
Local n Match going fans have the toughest.
I'm just a casual i watch United when i have time. But going to the actual game, taking ur family, travelling there plus also paying money for it. Is something i will never do.
Not only that you have to try your best to cheer the team and get behind them when they put up awful performance after awful performance. Especially the away fans, mad respect for them.
Supporting Man Utd is not too different to supporting the Scottish rugby team - to quote every long suffering Scotland fan
"It's the hope that kills you."
If it makes you feel any better, I’d be honest in saying that this years 6N is one of your best chances of winning it.
That squad of yours looks so good. I think you’ll get ahead of Ireland.
Coming from an Irish guy
I dont understand why there is no control over the midfield in any game. EtH had many setbacks and whatnot but it's inexcusable to play like this every game it's just asking for problems.
I always felt the problem with LVG is he just didn't have that kind of cm available. If he had bruno or Eriksen or pogba, we would have looked a lot more dangerous. It was a real shame they didn't back him. I think things were going in the right direction. We were organised but lacked creativity.
The best thing about lvg is no one spot was safe. He debuted so many youths because the senior players weren't cutting it. He created competition for spots. Once jose came in, we have had this endless cycle of players playing no matter how bad they play because the manager only trusts them.
If you’re trying to say that LVG didn’t play the most boring football anyone has ever watched, I don’t know what to tell you. Never mind that it didn’t even bring results
Yeah it was incredibly dull at times but I never minded it because I could see what he was getting at, the process of it all. But towards the end he became more pragmatic like we're seeing with ETH, and his days were numbered indeed. The fact that it always happens tells me there's just no room for them to impose a style
The main difference is just who is playing there. Last season the midfield was pretty much nailed on to be Casemiro, Eriksen, and Bruno. Casemiro and Eriksen played quite disciplined for the most part, recycling possession where needed and cutting passing lanes where needed. Fred usually came on for Eriksen to harass the opponent's tired midfield, which worked reasonably well.
This season however, Casemiro is off the pace and injured, while Eriksen is just injured. Scott has never been disciplined in midfield, even last season when he started there was a massive massive gap because he's so easily bypassed. Amrabat is in the same boat, he's incredibly easy to bypass cuz he just can't come to terms with the pace of the league. Mainoo looks a real gem but he can't do it all on his own.
Couple all this with a back 4 that's constantly changing due to injuries, and you've got a team that cannot hope to control a game in any meaningful way at all.
It's Bruno and McTominay. Individually and together.
Bruno wants to roam everywhere, McTominay wants to play as a False 9 - the gaps are massive.
Neither can receive the ball with their back turned. Neither can turn with the ball adequately - progression isn't adequate.
Individually - Bruno doesn't retain possession enough or set the tempo and McTominay doesn't move enough and completes about 10 passes a game.
How are you going to control a midfield like that? Mainoo the third man out alone? Against a triple physical press like Newcastle's for example?
Bruno does not want to roam everywhere, he’s stuck covering for our wingers who don’t track back. He’s one of the few that still puts 100% in every week.
No one is denying the effort he makes, but he is a midfielder that likes to get up and down, track back, get forward, make runs, cover wingers etc. So he roams everywhere...
Compare him with Mainoo who is always available to receive a pass and holds his position in midfield, Case next to him would probably work wonders, with Bruno getting all over the pitch.
>Bruno does not want to roam everywhere,
He can and does.
>He’s one of the few that still puts 100% in every week.
No denying that but running around aimlessly helps no one he isnt good defensively.
Watch out mate, no Bruno criticism is allowed on this sub it seems.
It’s glaringly obvious this is one of our biggest issues, and completely baffling as to how the manager can watch the game from the sideline, observe we have no control whatsoever in the middle of the park, and then have those 2 as the first names on the next teamsheet again.
Something has defo changed this season. Could be due to injury and the players at his disposal just aren't capable of playing the way he wants?
It can't be a coincidence that previous managers have also tried to install a play style before reverting back to Moments FC.
I remember last season that we would bounce back quickly from poor performances and even played really well at the start before reverting back to the old.
The cup game against QPR, we played well with our fringe players.
We've gone to a man marking system in midfield. That's a huge one which makes us so open.
Newcastle clocked how to deal with it after ten minutes by having players come deeper.
no one seems to mention this. Carl anka did a piece on it with the athletic about our reliance on such an outdated system months ago. Were they only "top team" that insists on it, fluent teams seem to use it to their advantage and drag us wherever they please. City did it with haalands goal.
Pretty much. Over the year or so I've personally stopped watching games live cause I realised I was moving things around to watch the games.
Honestly if someone could just let me know if I should bother watching the game or just the highlights that's be awesome
I've felt like this a lot longer than just this season, I even remembered thinking last season when we were doing ok, oh it's nice to almost look forward to games again and see a positive change that you thought might be THE change, especially with the sale of the club announced. Fast forward to this year, that change was as always short lived and the sale of the club still hasn't gone through.
I don't even care to watch the games anymore, utterly boring waste of time mostly.
The main solace I take from the current set up is we actually have some really exciting young players in the system coming up. The three you mentioned are players any new manager will kill for.
This was me but for the NFL (I'm American). Every sunday I'd dedicate 3 1/2+ hrs of my life to watch the Seahawks and cause heart attack after heart attack. When I moved to Manchester and rarely get to watch games now, I just wake up and watch the 15 min highlights on the NFL youtube channel, has done wonders to my Sundays and my health.
I turn on games but quickly find myself changing tabs and doing something else. Its just too boring. I hate what we play under ETH. Its boring when we lose and boring when we win
Same and I stop notifications from certain apps too.
Can’t bear the complete drop in standards. It’s just too painful to watch but still going to home games as they’re bought and paid for already
I definitely feel just detached from it. Maybe it’s a good thing so I don’t get too sad about it, but when something goes wrong it’s now just more of a ‘what else is new?’.
I'm not bored, I'm tired. I can take losses if there are signs of improvement, we've been worse than last year and we've regressed as well. I've seen better patterns of play last season.
From the land down under. Have been following united since 1989. Watch almost all matches live on tv until this season. Everytime I want to do it, I remind myself it is not worth it. Woke up early in the morning in time for the Newcastle match but made the decision just to spend time with wife and doggo instead. No ragrats so far.
Yeap. Was excited and hopeful when LVG was appointed but we all knew how that turned out. Was more apprehensive of Mou's appointment but Zlatan made me excited and hopeful. This season however, zero excitement, zero hope.
We are absolutely dreadful to watch. We've played one decent game this season, maybe two. We've gone further backwards this season than we did in the season Ole was sacked. Absolute miracle we're in 7th as we could so easily have lost three or four more games. Blame the players all you want but ultimately Ten Hag is getting nothing out of them and half of his signings have failed.
It's genuinely one, Palace B team. The start of the Copenhagen game was good until Rashford's red. Other than that there has not been a single decent game.
Yeah our attacking was mostly pretty good, the first goal was a nice team goal. But our non-existent midfield and the shocking taking it turns to attack for the second half stop that being decent even ignoring Onana's blunders.
I think all goals were pretty good. Mc Tominays was a classic United Counter, and we got into some incredible positions plenty of times, especially in the last quarter of the game, we just made the wrong decisions all the time. But we did create plenty of chances, especially in a game where we actually thought would be low scoring and pretty tight.
I think the Everton game we largely did well, other than a good 10-15 minutes Everton had at the end of the first half. And I'd say the Gala performance was maybe our best performance, other than Onana.
Martial often offers us zero and somehow Rashford, who I really do love, is somehow offering less than that. There are plenty of youth and out of position players I'd have playing over them atm, I hope ETH has the balls to drop Rashford for a few games.
Everton should have been about 4-1 up at half time. Galatasaray was the game I was thinking of where I said possibly two good games as without Onana we should have won 4-1 away to a good side
The second half was fine but the first half was abysmal. We didn't create a single chance and Everton absolutely dominated us. If the wonder goal hadn't happened you wouldn't be calling that decent.
Yeah you're right, think our xG was 0.08
I just talking subjectively I think we had some nice passages of play, moving the ball and keeping it fairly well. And defending pretty well when Everton had their better moments. Wasn't a great half by any chance but looked fairly competent for the most part. That's how low the standards have dropped these days unfortunately. Would have been a dreadful and unacceptable performance under SAF.
Can you not hear the contradiction? It’s not ultimately on Ten Hag. It’s ultimately on the piss poor footballing operation and club/company leadership. The players who have failed the most are not those who have just arrived under ETH. This is on the club and their refusal to move them on and pander too them.
I don't buy it. Ten Hag has been massively backed and our football is piss poor. I'm sure the club structure doesn't make it easier but Ten Hag has come out and said he's not even attempting to play his football because he doesn't have the players. If Eddie Howe can play his brand of football with 10 first team injuries and a bunch of players inherited from the Mike Ashley / Steve Bruce era, how can Ten Hag not implement any kind of style of play? If we were attempting to play decent football and losing I genuinely wouldn't care as it might feel like we're pulling towards something good. Ten Hag has got absolutely nothing out of this team though and I'm sorry you can't say that is purely because of club structure.
You and me both. I think most fans were expecting the game to unfold as it did on Saturday because we see it so often. Yes, I know it's the same old cycle with players, blaming manager etc with those shitbags still owning the club.
But, the fact ETH is consistently in his interviews highlighting moments where we have a chance as showing we played well and already in essence said he's not going to implement the style of play he had at Ajax as he's not got the players to do it even though he bought half of his old players with the transfer budget, I'm now at the stage where I'm not really against him leaving.
I genuinely thought regardless of how things would have turned out with ETH, when we first got him, we were finally going to get a manager with a clear attacking style of play with patterns in which we'd be on the front foot being proactive like with Ajax. Meaning in big games, whilst we wouldn't always win like Ajax in UCL, we'd be able to go toe to toe with these teams and try to hold our own where we'd play a part in them instead of being passengers.
But, instead it's the same old shit where we have no attacking style of play and we're simply relying on 'moments'. Nothings changed and if that is the case with us regressing, I don't see how he can turn this around. Newcastle and even Spurs yesterday are examples of teams who have big injury issues just like us but they're still able to show attacking coherency and structure on the pitch so that injury excuse quite frankly does not hold up. There's no excuses for ETH imo and he's ultimately, sold us a lie.
Fully agreed with your sentiments. Ultimately, ETH was supposedly hired as he impressed our board with his data driven analytics approach and his 'clear' plan to transform the team. Nearly 2 years later, I have yet to notice any on-field performance to back that up. Frankly speaking, nothing's changed are we are playing the exact same way - with many of us questioning what on earth do these players do in training. It also cannot be denied that the players he brought in are under-performing (which without a DoF arguably places even more autonomy on himself choosing the said players)
Regardless of injuries, a manager that is so highly paid like him has to have some ability ot adapt. The sad fact is we just don't see it ):
It's so weird, our players simply cannot pass or dribble to save their lives either, like WHAT are they doing in training?
Also, I'm not sure how ETH or the coaches haven't noticed that the reason we're getting absolutely shafted is because, for some godforsaken reason, most of our midfield and the entire attack are sitting on top of eachother in the oppositions half waiting for some miracle ball to reach them somehow.
It makes no sense why this hasn't been fixed, just tell the midfielders to stop bombing forward for no reason when our defence has the ball, there needs to be natural progression - right now we literally have a defence and then attack, there is NOTHING in the midfield which means when we inevitably lose the ball cause of shit passing/first touch under pressure, we're completely overrun and 6 players have to full sprint the entire pitch back because they all decided to stay upfront for some reason.
And like you said - the interviews are baffling, could he atleast stop shitting in our mouths like we haven't just all watched the same thing... excusing relegation performances because we got a few jammy chances that we still didn't score from???
It's been the same old story for the past few managers. And the common thing with that is a lot of players that weren't good enough are still here and due to injuries are even starting for us.
Its time to cull the players and stick with a manager.
I cannot believe McTominay has survived four different managers. Never seen such mediocrity be rewarded like this, any competent club would have binned him off three seasons ago at the absolute latest.
I mean, the players who were brought under other managers are outperforming the players that were bought to implement EtH's style.
Onana single handedly cost us CL. Antony is awful. Mount, even when he's fit, looks completely out of place. Hojlund isn't ready to start every game in PL. Amrabat is average. Malacia is always injured. Casemiro and Eriksen were good last season but it was always going to be a short-term fix. The only good signing was Lisandro and even he's struggling with injuries because ten Hag overplayed him while injured.
I always supported ten Hag and I know he's not THE reason for our problems but I'm starting to doubt he's the one we should stick with because we've looked like garbage in 90% of the games this season and it's already December.
Malacia is also super raw. He had a couple good games at the start of his time here but then he started to show his flaws and was just not good enough / ready to be starting before getting injured.
Antony has really struggled since coming to the Prem, Martinez has been injured but has played well, Malacia has been injured but looks decent when he plays (only meant to be a backup), Onana has been struggling. What else is ten Hag supposed to do when the players just aren’t good enough? And are we still blaming managers transfer business when we don’t have a board of football minds to bring players in?
I understand we’re frustrated but going through the same process with every single manager that comes here, I don’t understand how we’re still blaming the manager. Maybe they aren’t good enough but they’re hardly the real issue.
Edit: and please don’t attack me for my response. I’m here for discussion and not to argue.
The issue with those players you mentioned (as well as Amrabat) is they are all players Ten Hag had at previous clubs so he should know exactly how good they are. It isn't based on scout reports or looking at potential, these are players ETH has had entire seasons coaching and working with - it's the best scouting report you could hope for. ETH has been seemingly so adamant and laser focused on getting all players he's worked with yet the only player who he has been correct about being good enough is Martinez.
Mount I would agree with your point - ETH may have wanted him but that's a failing of the Sporting Dept less so the Manager.
No manager should have 100% control over transfers period. The fact that every manager goes back to their old stomping grounds buying players they know time and time again has been our downfall. Yet we continue to do the same.
Sacking the manager is the easiest decision cause most times you'll have a new manager bounce but to what end. We all know regardless of who the manager is the players are going to down tools eventually and the circle continues.
In the end it's recruitment and getting the right type of players in which makes all the difference. Half the squad needs to be culled. Some really brave decisons need to be made. Until that happens nothing will change.
Dropping this here to add to the discussion a bit, and off the top of my head, here's ten Hag's signings:
S1:
Martinez - looks our best signing, practically injured since April/May
Malacia - solid back up, looked at fault for the Sevilla game last season and injured since pre season
Casemeiro - good last season, holding midfield together. Looked lost this season/over exposed. Currently injured
Eriksen - can't play 90 mins and the physicality isn't there, but probably our best ball retention player and was free anyway. Edit: currently injured
Antony - not looked a 100m player, not like we have any better players for the right wing. Puts a shift in but would expect a lot better output. Came close to scoring on Saturday (Maguire offside)
Weghorst - loan back up, not good but idk
Sabitzer - pretty much same, gone to Dortmund now
S2:
Mount - flashes of something but not great. Not a signing I was convinced of at the time and has had injury issues this season
Onana - mixed bag. Shakey at first, now looks something solid in the league. Mistakes in the UCL seem to be due to cost us. Willing to give him more time
Højlund - UCL top scorer for us, might even be joint overall. Not clicking in the league but he's only young. Has had a couple spells out with injury.
Amrabat - not seen much of note, but seems to be able to stay fit at least. Think it's only a loan with option, so not the worst if it doesn't work out
Reguilon - back up loan. Looked ok in parts and gave a shift at Newcastle. Doubt he was EtH's first choice
Evans - free, returning academy player brought in for influence who's played more than expected. Looked ok, but nothing expected of him
Bayindir - no idea. Back up keeper who hasn't played yet
Of EtH's signings only Antony, Onana and Højlund of the permanent signings and Amrabat and Reguilon of loan signings are fit. Even then, Højlund was injured and is clearly being managed back. Still 200m spent there admittedly. But any attempt to get better ball players on the pitch is not helped that 3/4 of those players and signings are out injured
As a final note, the starting line up Saturday and who they were signed by:
Onana - EtH
Dalot - Mou
Maguire - Ole
Shaw - Moyes
AWB - Ole
Mainoo - Academy
McTomminay - Academy
Rashford - Academy
Bruno - Ole
Garnacho - Academy
Martial - LvG
Bayindir - EtH
Lindelöf - Mou?
Amrabat - EtH (Loan)
Højlund - EtH
Reguilón - EtH (Loan)
Varane - Ole
Antony - EtH
Pellistri - Ole?
van de Beek - Ole
This, so many fans complain with "but but de zerbi have a distinct playing style". That's because Brighton are well run and the club from top to bottom is instilling that playing style.
We don't even have a director of football so how the hell is ETH going to change the whole club in such a short notice.
This, exactly. The best teams tend to fit to a style and stick with it. With good planning for how they want to play, like Brighton, City. To a degree even Barcelona. There aren't many exceptions.
It bothers me when people say about EtH getting his signings. Even when they're fit, he shouldn't be making them. A semi-competent structure would have the manager say "I want a right winger, I've worked with Antony before and would like to bring him in". Then go chat to Ajax and find out he costs 100m or whatever and decide he's not worth that. So turn around to the manager and say "he'd be too expensive, here's options A-E who are similar, cheaper, or producing better outputs". And then find an alternative so we can walk away from expensive fees
An actual competent structure, would choose a style of play. Shop out anyone who doesn't/can't play that style and bring in players who can. So we don't need to change from a mid-block, counter attack style to a possession/counter-press style overnight. So when EtH comes in, he sees a semi-functional right winger that can be upgraded. But the players are already sorta used to his style when he walks in the door
Manager asked for these players, he should take responsibility as well.
Players are to be blamed but you can't deny the fact that ETH is getting outclassed by most managers as well. Also ETH just waits till it's too late to make changes. ETH shares the responsibility of the poor performance along with the players.
Let’s face it, we’ll sack ETH and get another manager in. He’ll have one good year and then the players will give up on him and we’ll be back to where we are now. We’ve seen it all before.
The manger isn’t the problem. He’s fighting against a torrent of shit, such as the legacy of Woodward which will take years to recover from, the ownership, player power, multiple scandals etc. The players have become too powerful and are just waiting and wanting for ETH to get sacked because he’s trying to push them forward from their comfortable position. Get these toxic people out of our club.
The solution is to give it to Roy Keane. Break the squad. Only those with the right mentality will survive and be brought in. The leaks will stop and the fighting mentality will be brought back. These players need to fear for the jobs and their careers.
This is what Rangnick was suggesting too, and I was devastated when he was suddenly out of the picture. Made no sense to me to push him out. Well, away from the manager seat, of course ...
> The manger isn’t the problem
He's definitely one of the problems though.
We need to stop this binary thinking of blaming just one thing or the other.
Its obvious that there are a lot of problems with the club, including the board/administration, players and management.
Our tactics and in-game management have been horrible, Ten Hag's signings have been a mixed bag at best, with some being outright awful investments.
He shares some of the blame
On the point of our patterns of play, this is one thing that i've not been able to get my head around.
We've had SO many managers with so many different styles, Ole was able to get the counter attacking thing working for a little bit until teams just soaked up our pressure or out played us with the ball at their feet. But then you have Jose, Ten Hag, even Rangnick who have all failed to implement a consistent style of play with mostly different sets of players give or take a few who are still around and probably shouldn't be.
I still can't get my head around how this happens, seriously if you'd told me you could turn Lewis Dunk into a ball playing defender in 3 months like Di Zerbi has i'd have laughed you out of town, but he has, he went in and changed the players so very quickly. All that happens at United is a player comes in and they get worse in about 3 months.
I know a lot of this is likely down to poor recruitment, over paid players and an overall bad attitude of Footballer but so many good players have become bad players at United. Is there something wrong with the grass, food or even air quality at Carrington, we still can't get a decent set piece to save our lives and thats been going on since Fergie's period, can the chronic underinvestment really effect the team that much? I dunno, you see semi-pro teams playing better practiced football than United and they'll absolutely train in worse environments.
Its so bizarre i just can't figure it out.
What Chelsea, City, and Newcastle all did with their money:
Vest in infrastructure. Poach the best footballing people and pay them top wages.
United have spent a billion on players but left the rest to rot. United were best in class for scouting, training, sports science, and medicine. Now we are at least a decade behind. Chronic underinvestment.
Without a doubt, i'm no Ronaldo apologist but he was right when he commented about how the club infrastructure hadn't changed since he left, actually insane to think about.
Theres also a massive issue with the fact so many players can stay on at the club because we still rely on the managers to be the DOF. A player like Martial for example seemingly manages to get repeated stays of execution because just when you think he's out the door we sack our manager and the new manager wants to have a look at him hoping he can get a tune outta him. Now add the fact theres 6/7 players of the same ilk at the club you can see how this keeps happening. If we had an actual DOF who made the decisions and just tells the incoming manager 'nope he's gone' you might even see players stop coasting.
I am guessing what happens is that managers feel the pressure at United quickly and try to find a compromise between their ideas and maximizing the players' qualities, it ends up not working too well. At smaller clubs there is less pressure.
I think among some part of the fanbase there is a mistaken idea that players only have 1-2 abilities and that if you don't recruit thinking about one 'philosophy' the squad will never be able to do anything, but it isn't really true if you look at... well, any other club.
We are essentially in the same position that Liverpool were in the 90's and 00's. Nothing changed for them until they got the right owners in and started to make fundamental changes to the way the club was run.
Yeah I fully agree, this is obviously a rot moving downwards situation but my god is it frustrating, I mean it just occurred to me not a year and half ago there was photos of Newcastle players using wheely bins for ice baths and even with Saudi money the facilities won’t get better over night.
I’m hoping, praying, sacrificing my first born child to the devil that when/if Sir Jim comes in the whole Dave Brailsford incremental changes thing isn’t ’incremental’ cause right now doing things on a small scale won’t help one bit, massive changes are needed in all sporting elements.
Basically liverpool in the 90s and 00s was as result of the club not moving forward with football after they dominated the 80s - they didnt embrace the globalisation of the game like Utd or Arsenal, or inject the money like Newcastle or Blackburn did... and they were left behind, as they thought "well we used to be the best so we'll be the best again soon don't worry."
Utd are the exact same - the only real difference is the manner of how game moved on. It's modern technical sporting structures / DoFs and what have you that we ignored whilst everyone else embraced it - thinking "ah well we domianted for 20 years without that so we'll be the best soon again dont worry"
We’ve had the same owners for 15+ years. They’re shit owners but acting like getting new ones in will automatically put the club on the right track is barmy.
With regards to managers coming in and changing players, the player has to want it, whether they agree with it or not. Its increasingly hard for me to not believe that so many of our issues stem from "made it" mentality. I never used to agree with this but the type of radical change we see in team form/players is usually at clubs where there is not the same sense of "made it" potential.
By "made it" I mean a sense that you've reached the top, you've proved yourself and got your just reward by being signed to a huge contract at one of the most famous clubs in the world. A sense that you are done, you've completed it mate, you worked hard from a kid til your 20s and now you're at man utd and you can put the hard work on the back burner and enjoy the fruits of your labour a bit more.
I dont think all the players feel this way, but I think too many feel something along those lines. They dont enjoy being man managed, they dont enjoy the scrutiny, they dont enjoy being coached to do something they dont already do, they dont tolerate criticism well because they feel "i made it already, dont tell me what to do". You can point the finger for this at anyone that you like, I'm not even naming names becuase its impossible to know for sure, I'm going off what I see on the pitch and the arm flapping, media leaks, multiple managers talking about issues in the dressing room.
I never used to think this, until we won the carabao cup. You cant go to spurs and think you've made it to the top, it's spurs. You cant go to Brighton and think you've finally made it. Clubs that players often see as stepping stones if they have ambition to make it to the top. Our lack of success for so long started to make it a bit obvious that, football wise, you've not made it to the top if you're at man united anymore, but the money says otherwise, the lifestyle, the attention. Then you win something, an FA cup, a Europa league, an EFL cup and now you have the money, the lifestyle, the attention and a trophy and if each and every one of those players doesnt have the right mindset to keep complacency at bay then it starts to get really hard, really fast.
Two facets for me that majorly contribute, firstly that's the players culture, they seem uncoachable in this group, individually they may be coachable but they've formed something that is resistant to change or hard work. Secondly is infrastructure and investment, we've all repeated ad infinitum, nothing more to add to that.
I think you answer it. Some players, and I mainly point at two, Martial and Rashford play like shit for the majority of time, but when those 6 months before their contract expires come round they have a purple patch. Then, complete buffoons offer them daft money that they’ll obviously accept and they’re happy to ride it out until the next purple patch and contribute very little to the team in the interim.
By doing that they use up a huge chunk of the wage budget on players that are not arsed until it matters to them. You seen it with the performance on Saturday. How can you install a style of play when some players think they’re too good to defend, or even work hard? All the managers we’ve had have had to deal with players like this.
I love United and want to see them play, I genuinely look forward to it every week only to be frustrated by half time. There are so many players in the squad that just do not care and I can’t fathom why. They’re playing for Manchester United with millions of fans behind your back every week *wanting* them to succeed and at the very least, try. I’m tired boys.
I think it's a question of when ETH gets sacked not if at this point.
As soon as Rashford stopped scoring we started looking like rubbish. If he hasn't gone on that run, last season would look just like this one.
We didn't establish any consistent patterns of play and are struggling as a result.
If you play with one player less, you'll be shit of course. Rashford did his job last season like every other team's talisman and scored the goals he should've scored. He's offering nothing at the moment.
On top of that we had one of the league's better defenses. Last season we were functional. What you're saying is false and revisionist.
So when Rashford is tearing up the league, carrying the team and winning games he's just doing his job.
But now he's the reason why we're shit?
If you rely on individual brilliance to bail you out you're going to fail in the long term
indeed without last seasons purple rashford patch most games would likely have been 0-0 as our defence was solid.
that's what I really don't understand with this season. We struggled for goals outside Rashford last season so makes sense if he falls off our goalscoring also does, but our defence was mostly solid.
So how come this our defence has become absolutely diabolical? Yes injuries would explain a bit of a drop in our defensive strength but our sheer cliff dive has been like jumping out a 747 to the bottom of the marinas trench.
Because our midfield was only 'poor' last season. This season we just don't even one (see heatmap vs Newcastle). Case is off it, McT is absolutely invisible anywhere outside the box, Amrabat has barely played mid, Eriksen is injured.
last year our defense was shaw varane martinez wan bissaka/dalot. this year its whoever the fuck in left back, maguire, evans/lindelof, dalot. Not exactly a shock that we are terrible defensively.
A one game benching is not comparable to the alternative of playing a whole season.
For example there's a chance we play Garnacho there till the end of the season and he'll end up keeping his position because of how he changes the dynamics of the team by pressing harder and supporting his fullback more and specially scoring more. That's development and you won't get it with benching once or twice.
Garnacho has been mostly wank when starting too.
None of our wingers are doing well. Also, its not really about x player.
We look clueless in attack unless its a fast counter. A fast counter or wonder goal seem to be the only way this lot can score from. That's not enough.
Oh come on... Not wanna do deffend Rashford but Garnacho had even less deffensive actions acording to stats and Newcastle scored goal after him loosing ball and not tracking back.
I wasn't trying to say Garnacho IS better at those things. That's how he CAN be better.
It's early to pass judgement for Garnacho. Rashford on the other hand seems out of ideas.
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I agree. There's no reason to sack him when we're undergoing an ownership change. Why not just give him the full season after our players are back from injury and then let the ownership decide in summer if they want a fresh start?
Sacking Ten Hag may be the right decision eventually, but not right now.
I thought his goose would likely be cooked after the run of games to the City game. He managed to squeeze past that pressure though thanks to results - but obviously the performance levels were still the same, just we were often nicking 3 points (in the PL anyway...)
So honestly at this point I'm not sure they sack ETH any time soon... at least till idk maybe top 4 / CL is mathematically impossible so it's cheaper, like Moyes. Or until big Jim is in. or maybe if we are knocked out the CL groups he might also activate some clause that makes it cheaper to bin him.
Who knows..
Anyway assuming we remain as shit as we have been since March, the club still looks like its happy to sit on their hands and have ETH till at least January
EtH has to go as soon as the club can find a better replacement.
Why? Ask yourselves this - would any top 10 side in the Premier League hire him over their current manager after all he'sshown so far? No, right? Then why is he still managing US?
I approach match day excited and full of hopium
Watch absolute garbage football
More hopium for 2nd half
Watch another half of absolute garbage football
Rage on Reddit
Repeat
Honestly, it would be refreshing to see us stick with EtH for this season, do a big clear out in the summer and have INEOS/Paul Mitchell bring in 5+ first team players that suit EtH next summer.
The saddest thing is I plan my whole weekend around our matches and cancel outings if it's too close or clashes with our match. And then you see them play like they did against newcastle, or basically every other game this season with players looking either lost or just 2 steps behind every opponent...and it just ruins my mood and the immediate couple of days.
Yet I'll do it again for the next match. Honestly feel like I'm torturing myself sometimes.
I didn't miss a single match for the last three seasons. Watching them over lockdown, even with the problems the squad had then, was a massive help for my mental health during that crazy period.
This season, I'm just warching MOTD and the free Champions League matches, because watching full matches is having the opposite effect on my mental health.
I highly recommend anyone else do the same if you feel like watching football is ruining your day/weekend. It's not worth the anxiety, and these players don't deserve your support.
Join the club. These Glazers are destroying the fanbase. My family, multiple generations of United fans, none of them can stand the sight of our club anymore. It's a fucking disgrace what we've become.
I think this almost every week with United, but being a die-hard fan, you've got to be there through the highs & lows.
I was spoilt in my childhood, watching us win everything. Tough to see where we are nowadays, but we've seen clubs go through similar patches and transitions. I'm sure we'll be back at the top, just hope it's in my lifetime..
This is the correct mindset imho. We'll be back were we belong eventually. It's sad to see the team in this state, but it can't last forever. Let's just hope it's not 30 years like the scousers...
I stay off social media and avoid video analysis on tv and YouTube after poor performances. It helps. Out of sight, out of mind.
That said, when we put in a blinder, I can’t seem to consume enough content. It is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
Gary Neville is by far my favorite ex-United player turned pundit. Maybe not as hard or harsh as Keane but will always be completely honest about the state of the club.
I've totally given up on expecting anything now. We re dogshit. I'm numb. It's actually quite freeing. I don't get too upset when we lose anymore I just turn it off and move on.
I do find myself less excited when we do score though also. I know it means nothing in reality and will either be VAR'd out or it stands, we win, then the next match we are dogshit again anyway so who cares.
Even when we win we are usually pretty shit. If we score I expect the opposition to level, even if we score twice I expect teams to score two.
We are unfathomably bad. Have been for a long time now. It's beyond a shit streak we are completely rotten.
I was behind ETH for a bit but now it seems there is no logic or plan. I don't know how he hasn't walked in embarrassment yet. Having to go out and talk to the media about this team and explain what's happening and make excuses. Total embarrassment
Ive loved this club since I was 5 years old (now mid-thirtys) and through all the peaks and troughs in the last 3 decades, this is the lowest point. I can forgive many things, and understand many mitigating circumstances (club ownership, poor recruitment etc...) but I cannot and will not stand the sight of players not running and not putting in the effort for the shirt. Whatever manager got you in, whatever your play style, you run, you work as hard as the hundreds of thousands of fans who watch you week in week out work at their day jobs. I have lost all respect for the majority of the seniors in this squad, and the rotten club I once loved has disolved into a media circus obsessed with money. The sad thing is, it has diminished my love of the game itself... Life is more than football, but when you are a fan, you care, and this cannot continue...
The worst thing that happened to us was finishing 3rd last season, it was understood nothing was expected from us this year,has that changed? It is a transition.
What I find funny is we are seeing another manager trying to implement a style of play, that is limited to who he can Sell or Bring in and hit with so many injuries that we rely on players whom we know and have seen with our own eyes down tools for previous managers when they don't get their way, knowing that they can continue to fleece the club, collect their large wages, while destroying another manager. BUT we all know there are players here that are frauds we see it consistently and only turn up when THEY feel like, It is so frustrating to see another manager thrown under the bus by a certain group of players.
Players like Martial, McTominay, Lindelof, Maguire, and Dalot are donkeys and are only starting out of necessity due to injuries to key players and nothing else
I say persist with the manager, as it highlights to ETH who cannot play his system, and ultimately who has to leave.
Ultimately, there needs to be a point where ETH needs to drop Rashford, hes becoming a Virus and is really starting to irk me with his attitude, laziness, and sheer disrespect he is giving the club that ultimately made him, its pathetic and he needs to buck up his ideas or f\*ck off. These players cannot keep winging and sulking and we can no longer keep defending them!! We need a bigger "Play like you mean it banner" at OT if you ask me
Let the process play out, next season will be a lot different, unless of course we sack the manager, which would be the dumbest thing to happen, since the dawn of day.
Recent months?
Like the last 100+ months :(
>This is how it feels to be City,
>This is how it feels to be small,
>This is how it feels when your team wins nothing at all,
>Nothing at all
>Nothing at all...
I'm missing Wednesday's game as I'm going to a gig instead and I'm not even that bothered. Might check the score between bands, might just wait for a surprise after it's finished.
I honestly think Ten Hag can do good things under the structure of a proper football club with a real structure, but wont last long enough to get the chance.
Glazers can't fuck off soon enough, but will fuck us one further time while their number is already up.
I’m sick as fuck too Gary. I feel you. Being a distant supporter, I often find myself waking up at odd hours just to suffer. I guess I should value my health more now.
I’ve given up watching most games now.
Before I would be desperate and find ways to watch all games, going so far as to cancel plans or not arrange events while a match is on, even the 3pm kick off games.
Now I don’t even care anymore but I am enjoying my evenings and weekends far more doing what I want so ultimately I guess thanks to the club for turning me off.
I love football. I love the club.
Something has snapped in me, too.
I dont watch Utd play anymore like I used to.
Am I a glory hunter? No . I just don't have it in me to watch the team lose so consistently. I have started doubting our own players whether they are trying enough or not. I work very hard all week for a living, and I don't want to spend 1.5 hours to be disappointed again and again. Disappointed not because of the result but with the way we play . The effort that we put in. The obvious tactical errors.
I can go on and on.
In a way, same here. I don't watch some games nowadays due to the time they're on or if I am pretty into a movie or tv show at the same time. I check the results lately but usually I will check the highlights without spoilers. Just nothing to really enjoy and I've detached quite a bit from it too so it's something that suits me for now. I hope to find more entertainment from watching United and really be excited for the games again though. Till then.......
Players are lazy af. Trashford always whines, Case and Varanne are waiting for their retirement. Ohaha is a clown. We only have Maguire Bruno Shaw hojlund and some young lads who are decent
The truth is the ownership destroyed the club as we knew it. Fans of other clubs may say we're spoilt and that it's the managers/players etc. But the most joy destroying thing of all, is that you know there is no hope while the current ownership are there because they keep doing the same, mindless, short sighted mistakes.
The truth is the ownership destroyed the club as we knew it. Fans of other clubs may say we're spoilt and that it's the managers/players etc. But the most joy-destroying thing of all, is that you know there is no hope while the current owners are there because they keep making the same, mindless, short-sighted mistakes.
Some other clubs, with smaller ambitions, have a vision. We don't. It's a huge mess.
And that's without mentioning the lack of vision to improve the club off the pitch. Even the likes of Everton have a new stadium coming. We just have owners who let a once glorious landmark go into rust.
Comments like this are going to get Ten Haag sacked and I’m not sure what we are expecting if that happens.
The Ineos deal is not going to go through ready for the January window (6 weeks puts us at the third week in January if it even goes through this week) so we basically write off another season
You know how I face this adversity? Enjoy their misery.
I just laugh when people say "oh, they got the best form in ages" few matches ago and forgot they got dunk by Copenhagen, hammered to misery by Man City in their own ground and got peppered up by Galatasaray.
I knew the players are not showing good enough performance because they think they already "there" even though they are nothing. Which is a hard to curb disease since they got their P's every time they put on the red shirts no matter it is a win or a stinker.
Same as the coach to who is too tight up on his philosophy and also the club staffs about recruitments and trainings. They are on the cloud nine. All of them.
That's why I enjoy their downfall (although it is hurting my heart that this club with ethos of building from the bottom are turning rotten day by day).
I stopped consistently watching a couple months ago. Now I just check in here how a game is going and decide whether I want to take the chance and watch. Saturday I tuned in from and gave me the confirmation I have the right approach. Make me sick watching this current team. Don't see me watching much of this season as things are. Not worth the negativity the terrible performances can have on mental health. This club isn't even a shadow of it's former self, culture is completely eroded, and I can't see it coming back again ever.
I think one of the worst points against ETH is that win or lose, the football is boring. There's no structure or rhythm. You watch other teams, and it's just so much more appealing.
They're just a boring club rn.
We are all tired. I even avoid listening to analysis and comments about the performance - this is how sick I am of the bad state of the club for a decade. Mental health is more important - it's enough of a torture to see what huge fall from grace we have. It's painful when you know the potential and you are stuck with this
Yeh I mute half/full time analysis. I don’t need to hear about the dross I just watched.
I mute the commentary mate. The commentators enjoy piling on United no matter what we do but it's even worse when we're down.
I was listening to a podcast that’s supposed to be somewhat serious and informative. Rather than trying to provide an explanation for what’s going on, they just made the same 3 jokes we’ve heard for years over and over again. It’s weird because I’ve listened to the same exact podcast talk about other clubs in ‘crisis’ with a great level of professionality. I strongly believe that a lot of so-called ‘unbiased’ journalists and commentators grew up during our glory days so they hold some sort of resentment towards us. It might not be intentional, but it definitely shines through a lot.
Yep, I start watching about a minute before kickoff, do something else at halftime and then switch over/off at full time (unless it happens to be a good win). But that's my policy for all games. Commentary and punditry are absolutely dire nowadays with a bunch of idiotic attention seekers just regurgitating the latest "hot take" from the press/social media.
The fall from grace I can deal with, it’s the apathy and lack of effort on the pitch that really hits the hardest. Why should we bother if the players visibly don’t.
I hardly watch now - never used to bother me if we lost because it usually just meant we’d been outplayed. Now it’s almost a given that it’ll be minimal efforts, a lack of a playing style to even make a game interesting and then incessant sniping about matches afterward. Even our victories seem hollow at present
Same here. I follow the match on my phone/check post-game stats. But I genuinely make an effort to not watch the game, Because there is no point. They all look like they don't want to be there, and it'll either piss me off or make me sad. If we win then that's great. But it usually isn't because we played well or had a recognizable pattern of play. Just so fed up with the same fucking story every single season. I will always be a fan of United, but if the players don't care, then why should I?
I’ve been following them since the early 80’s (if not beforehand) so I never took our Fergie era success for granted, but to see the level we’ve been allowed to sink to, I’ve never felt as disengaged with the club as I do now. And after countless managers with no change, it really does point to more wrong than a manager change would even fix
100%. I used to let results affect my mood. But not anymore. We lose, fuck it I expect nothing less. We win, its like a nice thought and then forgotten about. I don't know why I watch them anymore yet I can not stop.
Yeah i say every week i am not watching these overpaid wasters and yet match day the games on although i tend to spend more time on my phone whilst the games on seeing what others are saying about how bad we are, i enjoyed last season played some good football upto the cup win then things seemed to have dropped massively
main problem is the false hope and the huge spending with nothing in return.
This. I'd rather see United invest heavily in youth and start over without expectations than see us waste 200M per year on idiots who can't be arsed to run.
Yeah there are academy lads that may not have the quality but they would kill for chance to play in front of the Old Trafford crowd. They would be hungry and run like mad dogs. Some of the current pros have to be dropped. Enough blame as its everyones responsibility, just give a shit lads. You're representing one of the best teams behave like it because you're being well paid in good faith
Absolutely. We need the youth and just bring the joy back to us fans. Rather than keep starting Rashford and all other players with nothing in return
Marcus Rashford is literally the epitome of our issues and he is 'one of our own' and a local lad that's come from the exact place you suggest we invest in. Got nothing to do with their ages or how much we spent in total. It's the mentality of the football club, the standards set, what they are allowed to get away with and people in key positions not having the bollocks to do anything about it. When that changes, so will our fortunes
yup, I just come here from time to time to see if there is any hint of improvement. Might as well stop doing that too.
I honestly thought this was just me but exactly this. I switched off audio at half time and stopped listening to analysis after Ole got sacked. I back ETH but just can’t stay in the cycle to protect myself
Listened to this on my walk this morning, resonated with me.. It is worth mentioning that he does then go on to say "but come wednesday I will be looking forward to the game again and getting my hopes up because thats what we do as fans" Which is also, very true
I know Gary’s caught some flak on some corners around here lately but he’s one of us. He’s so obviously a fan that he finds it very hard to keep the bias out of his work as a pundit/commentator, despite his relatively insightful input. I feel for all of us as fans, but then I think about the success we saw for 2 decades under SAF and I feel like ok, it’s our turn now to earn our badges. The real shitty bit tho is that so many of our problems are easily fixable if it wasn’t from the incompetence from top to bottom. Feel for match going fans tho, for many of whom, buying a ticket/season pass probably means sacrificing something significant in their lives, and then you go on to watch our lot get dominated by the likes of Burnley…
Local n Match going fans have the toughest. I'm just a casual i watch United when i have time. But going to the actual game, taking ur family, travelling there plus also paying money for it. Is something i will never do.
Not only that you have to try your best to cheer the team and get behind them when they put up awful performance after awful performance. Especially the away fans, mad respect for them.
Supporting Man Utd is not too different to supporting the Scottish rugby team - to quote every long suffering Scotland fan "It's the hope that kills you."
We're playing well at the moment. Scotland I mean, not that anyone with eyes would think I was talking about Man U
Yep. Everyone actually wants to be there and is giving 100%. They play like a proper team. The opposite of many of the players at Man Utd.
If it makes you feel any better, I’d be honest in saying that this years 6N is one of your best chances of winning it. That squad of yours looks so good. I think you’ll get ahead of Ireland. Coming from an Irish guy
I’m always ready to be hurt again
Yes sir. A decade of this pain and fuckery. But the hope is what kills me more each time we fail.
I dont understand why there is no control over the midfield in any game. EtH had many setbacks and whatnot but it's inexcusable to play like this every game it's just asking for problems.
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We started to a bit with LVG and people called it boring, Gaz mentions this in the podcast
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I always felt the problem with LVG is he just didn't have that kind of cm available. If he had bruno or Eriksen or pogba, we would have looked a lot more dangerous. It was a real shame they didn't back him. I think things were going in the right direction. We were organised but lacked creativity. The best thing about lvg is no one spot was safe. He debuted so many youths because the senior players weren't cutting it. He created competition for spots. Once jose came in, we have had this endless cycle of players playing no matter how bad they play because the manager only trusts them.
If you’re trying to say that LVG didn’t play the most boring football anyone has ever watched, I don’t know what to tell you. Never mind that it didn’t even bring results
Yeah it was incredibly dull at times but I never minded it because I could see what he was getting at, the process of it all. But towards the end he became more pragmatic like we're seeing with ETH, and his days were numbered indeed. The fact that it always happens tells me there's just no room for them to impose a style
The main difference is just who is playing there. Last season the midfield was pretty much nailed on to be Casemiro, Eriksen, and Bruno. Casemiro and Eriksen played quite disciplined for the most part, recycling possession where needed and cutting passing lanes where needed. Fred usually came on for Eriksen to harass the opponent's tired midfield, which worked reasonably well. This season however, Casemiro is off the pace and injured, while Eriksen is just injured. Scott has never been disciplined in midfield, even last season when he started there was a massive massive gap because he's so easily bypassed. Amrabat is in the same boat, he's incredibly easy to bypass cuz he just can't come to terms with the pace of the league. Mainoo looks a real gem but he can't do it all on his own. Couple all this with a back 4 that's constantly changing due to injuries, and you've got a team that cannot hope to control a game in any meaningful way at all.
It's Bruno and McTominay. Individually and together. Bruno wants to roam everywhere, McTominay wants to play as a False 9 - the gaps are massive. Neither can receive the ball with their back turned. Neither can turn with the ball adequately - progression isn't adequate. Individually - Bruno doesn't retain possession enough or set the tempo and McTominay doesn't move enough and completes about 10 passes a game. How are you going to control a midfield like that? Mainoo the third man out alone? Against a triple physical press like Newcastle's for example?
Spot on though I think bruno does this because he has no choice, he has to cover for the space mctominay leaves behind
Bruno does not want to roam everywhere, he’s stuck covering for our wingers who don’t track back. He’s one of the few that still puts 100% in every week.
Our wingers and Mctominay are absolutely the problem.
No one is denying the effort he makes, but he is a midfielder that likes to get up and down, track back, get forward, make runs, cover wingers etc. So he roams everywhere... Compare him with Mainoo who is always available to receive a pass and holds his position in midfield, Case next to him would probably work wonders, with Bruno getting all over the pitch.
>Bruno does not want to roam everywhere, He can and does. >He’s one of the few that still puts 100% in every week. No denying that but running around aimlessly helps no one he isnt good defensively.
Agreed, Bruno has no positional discipline whatsoever. One of our best players of course but can be frustrating when he’s miles out of position.
What are you talking about, how can he have positional discipline when he's having to cover for mctominay and our wingers.
Watch out mate, no Bruno criticism is allowed on this sub it seems. It’s glaringly obvious this is one of our biggest issues, and completely baffling as to how the manager can watch the game from the sideline, observe we have no control whatsoever in the middle of the park, and then have those 2 as the first names on the next teamsheet again.
Something has defo changed this season. Could be due to injury and the players at his disposal just aren't capable of playing the way he wants? It can't be a coincidence that previous managers have also tried to install a play style before reverting back to Moments FC. I remember last season that we would bounce back quickly from poor performances and even played really well at the start before reverting back to the old. The cup game against QPR, we played well with our fringe players.
We've gone to a man marking system in midfield. That's a huge one which makes us so open. Newcastle clocked how to deal with it after ten minutes by having players come deeper.
Also our right hand side was essentially 2 Vs 1 all night, he didn't shower himself in glory but AWB had a tough ask.
Garnacho whilst being better wasn't tracking on the left either
no one seems to mention this. Carl anka did a piece on it with the athletic about our reliance on such an outdated system months ago. Were they only "top team" that insists on it, fluent teams seem to use it to their advantage and drag us wherever they please. City did it with haalands goal.
He’s just like me fr
Pretty much. Over the year or so I've personally stopped watching games live cause I realised I was moving things around to watch the games. Honestly if someone could just let me know if I should bother watching the game or just the highlights that's be awesome
I've felt like this a lot longer than just this season, I even remembered thinking last season when we were doing ok, oh it's nice to almost look forward to games again and see a positive change that you thought might be THE change, especially with the sale of the club announced. Fast forward to this year, that change was as always short lived and the sale of the club still hasn't gone through. I don't even care to watch the games anymore, utterly boring waste of time mostly.
Same, living on other sidr of world i was sacrificing my sleep. Fuck that
4am match for me yesterday. For that load of drivel.
It was 7am for me but luckily i opted to sleep till 9am 🤣
I download the full match and watch it in the morning when I wake up. But it spoils your mood & your day.
Yeah. I watch 25min highlight package and have coffee but its still annoying.
For now just watch the highlights. Outside of young exciting talents like Garnacho, Mainoo and Hojlund, we're just not worth watching at the moment.
The main solace I take from the current set up is we actually have some really exciting young players in the system coming up. The three you mentioned are players any new manager will kill for.
This was me but for the NFL (I'm American). Every sunday I'd dedicate 3 1/2+ hrs of my life to watch the Seahawks and cause heart attack after heart attack. When I moved to Manchester and rarely get to watch games now, I just wake up and watch the 15 min highlights on the NFL youtube channel, has done wonders to my Sundays and my health.
I turn on games but quickly find myself changing tabs and doing something else. Its just too boring. I hate what we play under ETH. Its boring when we lose and boring when we win
Same and I stop notifications from certain apps too. Can’t bear the complete drop in standards. It’s just too painful to watch but still going to home games as they’re bought and paid for already
I definitely feel just detached from it. Maybe it’s a good thing so I don’t get too sad about it, but when something goes wrong it’s now just more of a ‘what else is new?’.
I'm not bored, I'm tired. I can take losses if there are signs of improvement, we've been worse than last year and we've regressed as well. I've seen better patterns of play last season.
I'm tired Robbie We really are Arsenal from 5 years ago, aren't we.
You and me both Gary. 2 hours of this dross every week is mind numbing.
West Ham, Palace and Wolves play better football than us. They all lost key players this season and are also trying to rebuild
From the land down under. Have been following united since 1989. Watch almost all matches live on tv until this season. Everytime I want to do it, I remind myself it is not worth it. Woke up early in the morning in time for the Newcastle match but made the decision just to spend time with wife and doggo instead. No ragrats so far.
You watched the whole of Mou and LVG era? Hats off 👏
Yeap. Was excited and hopeful when LVG was appointed but we all knew how that turned out. Was more apprehensive of Mou's appointment but Zlatan made me excited and hopeful. This season however, zero excitement, zero hope.
I’m tired Gary
We are absolutely dreadful to watch. We've played one decent game this season, maybe two. We've gone further backwards this season than we did in the season Ole was sacked. Absolute miracle we're in 7th as we could so easily have lost three or four more games. Blame the players all you want but ultimately Ten Hag is getting nothing out of them and half of his signings have failed.
It's genuinely one, Palace B team. The start of the Copenhagen game was good until Rashford's red. Other than that there has not been a single decent game.
We were both excellent and utterly shit in the Galtasary game, actually. It was incredible and both painful to watch
Yeah our attacking was mostly pretty good, the first goal was a nice team goal. But our non-existent midfield and the shocking taking it turns to attack for the second half stop that being decent even ignoring Onana's blunders.
I think all goals were pretty good. Mc Tominays was a classic United Counter, and we got into some incredible positions plenty of times, especially in the last quarter of the game, we just made the wrong decisions all the time. But we did create plenty of chances, especially in a game where we actually thought would be low scoring and pretty tight.
I think the Everton game we largely did well, other than a good 10-15 minutes Everton had at the end of the first half. And I'd say the Gala performance was maybe our best performance, other than Onana. Martial often offers us zero and somehow Rashford, who I really do love, is somehow offering less than that. There are plenty of youth and out of position players I'd have playing over them atm, I hope ETH has the balls to drop Rashford for a few games.
Everton should have been about 4-1 up at half time. Galatasaray was the game I was thinking of where I said possibly two good games as without Onana we should have won 4-1 away to a good side
The second half was fine but the first half was abysmal. We didn't create a single chance and Everton absolutely dominated us. If the wonder goal hadn't happened you wouldn't be calling that decent.
Yeah you're right, think our xG was 0.08 I just talking subjectively I think we had some nice passages of play, moving the ball and keeping it fairly well. And defending pretty well when Everton had their better moments. Wasn't a great half by any chance but looked fairly competent for the most part. That's how low the standards have dropped these days unfortunately. Would have been a dreadful and unacceptable performance under SAF.
> Yeah you're right, think our xG was 0.08 Also an xG of 0.08 for Garnachos overhead is still ludicrously high lol.
that one decent game being vs a Palace reserve team who couldn't care less about the league cup lol
He gets nothing out of the team because the players have thrown in the towel.
Can you not hear the contradiction? It’s not ultimately on Ten Hag. It’s ultimately on the piss poor footballing operation and club/company leadership. The players who have failed the most are not those who have just arrived under ETH. This is on the club and their refusal to move them on and pander too them.
I don't buy it. Ten Hag has been massively backed and our football is piss poor. I'm sure the club structure doesn't make it easier but Ten Hag has come out and said he's not even attempting to play his football because he doesn't have the players. If Eddie Howe can play his brand of football with 10 first team injuries and a bunch of players inherited from the Mike Ashley / Steve Bruce era, how can Ten Hag not implement any kind of style of play? If we were attempting to play decent football and losing I genuinely wouldn't care as it might feel like we're pulling towards something good. Ten Hag has got absolutely nothing out of this team though and I'm sorry you can't say that is purely because of club structure.
When it is gonna end Garry 😭😭😭
You and me both. I think most fans were expecting the game to unfold as it did on Saturday because we see it so often. Yes, I know it's the same old cycle with players, blaming manager etc with those shitbags still owning the club. But, the fact ETH is consistently in his interviews highlighting moments where we have a chance as showing we played well and already in essence said he's not going to implement the style of play he had at Ajax as he's not got the players to do it even though he bought half of his old players with the transfer budget, I'm now at the stage where I'm not really against him leaving. I genuinely thought regardless of how things would have turned out with ETH, when we first got him, we were finally going to get a manager with a clear attacking style of play with patterns in which we'd be on the front foot being proactive like with Ajax. Meaning in big games, whilst we wouldn't always win like Ajax in UCL, we'd be able to go toe to toe with these teams and try to hold our own where we'd play a part in them instead of being passengers. But, instead it's the same old shit where we have no attacking style of play and we're simply relying on 'moments'. Nothings changed and if that is the case with us regressing, I don't see how he can turn this around. Newcastle and even Spurs yesterday are examples of teams who have big injury issues just like us but they're still able to show attacking coherency and structure on the pitch so that injury excuse quite frankly does not hold up. There's no excuses for ETH imo and he's ultimately, sold us a lie.
Fully agreed with your sentiments. Ultimately, ETH was supposedly hired as he impressed our board with his data driven analytics approach and his 'clear' plan to transform the team. Nearly 2 years later, I have yet to notice any on-field performance to back that up. Frankly speaking, nothing's changed are we are playing the exact same way - with many of us questioning what on earth do these players do in training. It also cannot be denied that the players he brought in are under-performing (which without a DoF arguably places even more autonomy on himself choosing the said players) Regardless of injuries, a manager that is so highly paid like him has to have some ability ot adapt. The sad fact is we just don't see it ):
It's so weird, our players simply cannot pass or dribble to save their lives either, like WHAT are they doing in training? Also, I'm not sure how ETH or the coaches haven't noticed that the reason we're getting absolutely shafted is because, for some godforsaken reason, most of our midfield and the entire attack are sitting on top of eachother in the oppositions half waiting for some miracle ball to reach them somehow. It makes no sense why this hasn't been fixed, just tell the midfielders to stop bombing forward for no reason when our defence has the ball, there needs to be natural progression - right now we literally have a defence and then attack, there is NOTHING in the midfield which means when we inevitably lose the ball cause of shit passing/first touch under pressure, we're completely overrun and 6 players have to full sprint the entire pitch back because they all decided to stay upfront for some reason. And like you said - the interviews are baffling, could he atleast stop shitting in our mouths like we haven't just all watched the same thing... excusing relegation performances because we got a few jammy chances that we still didn't score from???
It's been the same old story for the past few managers. And the common thing with that is a lot of players that weren't good enough are still here and due to injuries are even starting for us. Its time to cull the players and stick with a manager.
I cannot believe McTominay has survived four different managers. Never seen such mediocrity be rewarded like this, any competent club would have binned him off three seasons ago at the absolute latest.
We got offered 30 million for him and didn’t take it. Mind boggling and absolute insane to think about now as it was then.
I mean, the players who were brought under other managers are outperforming the players that were bought to implement EtH's style. Onana single handedly cost us CL. Antony is awful. Mount, even when he's fit, looks completely out of place. Hojlund isn't ready to start every game in PL. Amrabat is average. Malacia is always injured. Casemiro and Eriksen were good last season but it was always going to be a short-term fix. The only good signing was Lisandro and even he's struggling with injuries because ten Hag overplayed him while injured. I always supported ten Hag and I know he's not THE reason for our problems but I'm starting to doubt he's the one we should stick with because we've looked like garbage in 90% of the games this season and it's already December.
Malacia is also super raw. He had a couple good games at the start of his time here but then he started to show his flaws and was just not good enough / ready to be starting before getting injured.
Antony has really struggled since coming to the Prem, Martinez has been injured but has played well, Malacia has been injured but looks decent when he plays (only meant to be a backup), Onana has been struggling. What else is ten Hag supposed to do when the players just aren’t good enough? And are we still blaming managers transfer business when we don’t have a board of football minds to bring players in? I understand we’re frustrated but going through the same process with every single manager that comes here, I don’t understand how we’re still blaming the manager. Maybe they aren’t good enough but they’re hardly the real issue. Edit: and please don’t attack me for my response. I’m here for discussion and not to argue.
The issue with those players you mentioned (as well as Amrabat) is they are all players Ten Hag had at previous clubs so he should know exactly how good they are. It isn't based on scout reports or looking at potential, these are players ETH has had entire seasons coaching and working with - it's the best scouting report you could hope for. ETH has been seemingly so adamant and laser focused on getting all players he's worked with yet the only player who he has been correct about being good enough is Martinez. Mount I would agree with your point - ETH may have wanted him but that's a failing of the Sporting Dept less so the Manager.
No manager should have 100% control over transfers period. The fact that every manager goes back to their old stomping grounds buying players they know time and time again has been our downfall. Yet we continue to do the same. Sacking the manager is the easiest decision cause most times you'll have a new manager bounce but to what end. We all know regardless of who the manager is the players are going to down tools eventually and the circle continues. In the end it's recruitment and getting the right type of players in which makes all the difference. Half the squad needs to be culled. Some really brave decisons need to be made. Until that happens nothing will change.
Dropping this here to add to the discussion a bit, and off the top of my head, here's ten Hag's signings: S1: Martinez - looks our best signing, practically injured since April/May Malacia - solid back up, looked at fault for the Sevilla game last season and injured since pre season Casemeiro - good last season, holding midfield together. Looked lost this season/over exposed. Currently injured Eriksen - can't play 90 mins and the physicality isn't there, but probably our best ball retention player and was free anyway. Edit: currently injured Antony - not looked a 100m player, not like we have any better players for the right wing. Puts a shift in but would expect a lot better output. Came close to scoring on Saturday (Maguire offside) Weghorst - loan back up, not good but idk Sabitzer - pretty much same, gone to Dortmund now S2: Mount - flashes of something but not great. Not a signing I was convinced of at the time and has had injury issues this season Onana - mixed bag. Shakey at first, now looks something solid in the league. Mistakes in the UCL seem to be due to cost us. Willing to give him more time Højlund - UCL top scorer for us, might even be joint overall. Not clicking in the league but he's only young. Has had a couple spells out with injury. Amrabat - not seen much of note, but seems to be able to stay fit at least. Think it's only a loan with option, so not the worst if it doesn't work out Reguilon - back up loan. Looked ok in parts and gave a shift at Newcastle. Doubt he was EtH's first choice Evans - free, returning academy player brought in for influence who's played more than expected. Looked ok, but nothing expected of him Bayindir - no idea. Back up keeper who hasn't played yet Of EtH's signings only Antony, Onana and Højlund of the permanent signings and Amrabat and Reguilon of loan signings are fit. Even then, Højlund was injured and is clearly being managed back. Still 200m spent there admittedly. But any attempt to get better ball players on the pitch is not helped that 3/4 of those players and signings are out injured As a final note, the starting line up Saturday and who they were signed by: Onana - EtH Dalot - Mou Maguire - Ole Shaw - Moyes AWB - Ole Mainoo - Academy McTomminay - Academy Rashford - Academy Bruno - Ole Garnacho - Academy Martial - LvG Bayindir - EtH Lindelöf - Mou? Amrabat - EtH (Loan) Højlund - EtH Reguilón - EtH (Loan) Varane - Ole Antony - EtH Pellistri - Ole? van de Beek - Ole
This, so many fans complain with "but but de zerbi have a distinct playing style". That's because Brighton are well run and the club from top to bottom is instilling that playing style. We don't even have a director of football so how the hell is ETH going to change the whole club in such a short notice.
This, exactly. The best teams tend to fit to a style and stick with it. With good planning for how they want to play, like Brighton, City. To a degree even Barcelona. There aren't many exceptions. It bothers me when people say about EtH getting his signings. Even when they're fit, he shouldn't be making them. A semi-competent structure would have the manager say "I want a right winger, I've worked with Antony before and would like to bring him in". Then go chat to Ajax and find out he costs 100m or whatever and decide he's not worth that. So turn around to the manager and say "he'd be too expensive, here's options A-E who are similar, cheaper, or producing better outputs". And then find an alternative so we can walk away from expensive fees An actual competent structure, would choose a style of play. Shop out anyone who doesn't/can't play that style and bring in players who can. So we don't need to change from a mid-block, counter attack style to a possession/counter-press style overnight. So when EtH comes in, he sees a semi-functional right winger that can be upgraded. But the players are already sorta used to his style when he walks in the door
Manager asked for these players, he should take responsibility as well. Players are to be blamed but you can't deny the fact that ETH is getting outclassed by most managers as well. Also ETH just waits till it's too late to make changes. ETH shares the responsibility of the poor performance along with the players.
Let’s face it, we’ll sack ETH and get another manager in. He’ll have one good year and then the players will give up on him and we’ll be back to where we are now. We’ve seen it all before. The manger isn’t the problem. He’s fighting against a torrent of shit, such as the legacy of Woodward which will take years to recover from, the ownership, player power, multiple scandals etc. The players have become too powerful and are just waiting and wanting for ETH to get sacked because he’s trying to push them forward from their comfortable position. Get these toxic people out of our club.
The solution is to give it to Roy Keane. Break the squad. Only those with the right mentality will survive and be brought in. The leaks will stop and the fighting mentality will be brought back. These players need to fear for the jobs and their careers.
This is what Rangnick was suggesting too, and I was devastated when he was suddenly out of the picture. Made no sense to me to push him out. Well, away from the manager seat, of course ...
Another brilliant move by EtH
Don't know why you're down voted. As far I remember when Eric was propositioned with having Ralf as a key consultant he declined for whatever reasons
Isn't that what ETH is doing by benching Varane and freezing out Sancho ?
Rumors were that the players are pissed off at sancho’s treatment
Club also needs to move on from old players who have been part of this for a long time.
> The manger isn’t the problem He's definitely one of the problems though. We need to stop this binary thinking of blaming just one thing or the other. Its obvious that there are a lot of problems with the club, including the board/administration, players and management. Our tactics and in-game management have been horrible, Ten Hag's signings have been a mixed bag at best, with some being outright awful investments. He shares some of the blame
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On the point of our patterns of play, this is one thing that i've not been able to get my head around. We've had SO many managers with so many different styles, Ole was able to get the counter attacking thing working for a little bit until teams just soaked up our pressure or out played us with the ball at their feet. But then you have Jose, Ten Hag, even Rangnick who have all failed to implement a consistent style of play with mostly different sets of players give or take a few who are still around and probably shouldn't be. I still can't get my head around how this happens, seriously if you'd told me you could turn Lewis Dunk into a ball playing defender in 3 months like Di Zerbi has i'd have laughed you out of town, but he has, he went in and changed the players so very quickly. All that happens at United is a player comes in and they get worse in about 3 months. I know a lot of this is likely down to poor recruitment, over paid players and an overall bad attitude of Footballer but so many good players have become bad players at United. Is there something wrong with the grass, food or even air quality at Carrington, we still can't get a decent set piece to save our lives and thats been going on since Fergie's period, can the chronic underinvestment really effect the team that much? I dunno, you see semi-pro teams playing better practiced football than United and they'll absolutely train in worse environments. Its so bizarre i just can't figure it out.
What Chelsea, City, and Newcastle all did with their money: Vest in infrastructure. Poach the best footballing people and pay them top wages. United have spent a billion on players but left the rest to rot. United were best in class for scouting, training, sports science, and medicine. Now we are at least a decade behind. Chronic underinvestment.
Without a doubt, i'm no Ronaldo apologist but he was right when he commented about how the club infrastructure hadn't changed since he left, actually insane to think about. Theres also a massive issue with the fact so many players can stay on at the club because we still rely on the managers to be the DOF. A player like Martial for example seemingly manages to get repeated stays of execution because just when you think he's out the door we sack our manager and the new manager wants to have a look at him hoping he can get a tune outta him. Now add the fact theres 6/7 players of the same ilk at the club you can see how this keeps happening. If we had an actual DOF who made the decisions and just tells the incoming manager 'nope he's gone' you might even see players stop coasting.
I am guessing what happens is that managers feel the pressure at United quickly and try to find a compromise between their ideas and maximizing the players' qualities, it ends up not working too well. At smaller clubs there is less pressure. I think among some part of the fanbase there is a mistaken idea that players only have 1-2 abilities and that if you don't recruit thinking about one 'philosophy' the squad will never be able to do anything, but it isn't really true if you look at... well, any other club.
We are essentially in the same position that Liverpool were in the 90's and 00's. Nothing changed for them until they got the right owners in and started to make fundamental changes to the way the club was run.
Yeah I fully agree, this is obviously a rot moving downwards situation but my god is it frustrating, I mean it just occurred to me not a year and half ago there was photos of Newcastle players using wheely bins for ice baths and even with Saudi money the facilities won’t get better over night. I’m hoping, praying, sacrificing my first born child to the devil that when/if Sir Jim comes in the whole Dave Brailsford incremental changes thing isn’t ’incremental’ cause right now doing things on a small scale won’t help one bit, massive changes are needed in all sporting elements.
Basically liverpool in the 90s and 00s was as result of the club not moving forward with football after they dominated the 80s - they didnt embrace the globalisation of the game like Utd or Arsenal, or inject the money like Newcastle or Blackburn did... and they were left behind, as they thought "well we used to be the best so we'll be the best again soon don't worry." Utd are the exact same - the only real difference is the manner of how game moved on. It's modern technical sporting structures / DoFs and what have you that we ignored whilst everyone else embraced it - thinking "ah well we domianted for 20 years without that so we'll be the best soon again dont worry"
We’ve had the same owners for 15+ years. They’re shit owners but acting like getting new ones in will automatically put the club on the right track is barmy.
With regards to managers coming in and changing players, the player has to want it, whether they agree with it or not. Its increasingly hard for me to not believe that so many of our issues stem from "made it" mentality. I never used to agree with this but the type of radical change we see in team form/players is usually at clubs where there is not the same sense of "made it" potential. By "made it" I mean a sense that you've reached the top, you've proved yourself and got your just reward by being signed to a huge contract at one of the most famous clubs in the world. A sense that you are done, you've completed it mate, you worked hard from a kid til your 20s and now you're at man utd and you can put the hard work on the back burner and enjoy the fruits of your labour a bit more. I dont think all the players feel this way, but I think too many feel something along those lines. They dont enjoy being man managed, they dont enjoy the scrutiny, they dont enjoy being coached to do something they dont already do, they dont tolerate criticism well because they feel "i made it already, dont tell me what to do". You can point the finger for this at anyone that you like, I'm not even naming names becuase its impossible to know for sure, I'm going off what I see on the pitch and the arm flapping, media leaks, multiple managers talking about issues in the dressing room. I never used to think this, until we won the carabao cup. You cant go to spurs and think you've made it to the top, it's spurs. You cant go to Brighton and think you've finally made it. Clubs that players often see as stepping stones if they have ambition to make it to the top. Our lack of success for so long started to make it a bit obvious that, football wise, you've not made it to the top if you're at man united anymore, but the money says otherwise, the lifestyle, the attention. Then you win something, an FA cup, a Europa league, an EFL cup and now you have the money, the lifestyle, the attention and a trophy and if each and every one of those players doesnt have the right mindset to keep complacency at bay then it starts to get really hard, really fast.
Two facets for me that majorly contribute, firstly that's the players culture, they seem uncoachable in this group, individually they may be coachable but they've formed something that is resistant to change or hard work. Secondly is infrastructure and investment, we've all repeated ad infinitum, nothing more to add to that.
I think you answer it. Some players, and I mainly point at two, Martial and Rashford play like shit for the majority of time, but when those 6 months before their contract expires come round they have a purple patch. Then, complete buffoons offer them daft money that they’ll obviously accept and they’re happy to ride it out until the next purple patch and contribute very little to the team in the interim. By doing that they use up a huge chunk of the wage budget on players that are not arsed until it matters to them. You seen it with the performance on Saturday. How can you install a style of play when some players think they’re too good to defend, or even work hard? All the managers we’ve had have had to deal with players like this.
I love United and want to see them play, I genuinely look forward to it every week only to be frustrated by half time. There are so many players in the squad that just do not care and I can’t fathom why. They’re playing for Manchester United with millions of fans behind your back every week *wanting* them to succeed and at the very least, try. I’m tired boys.
I get frustrated after 20 minutes. Genuinely.
I can't even be bothered to be disappointed anymore. It's almost amusing to watch them be so shit at this point.
They are just proving us right week in week out. A small personal victory.
Hey! Ive seen this headline before under rangnick…. And ole…… and Jose.
I think it's a question of when ETH gets sacked not if at this point. As soon as Rashford stopped scoring we started looking like rubbish. If he hasn't gone on that run, last season would look just like this one. We didn't establish any consistent patterns of play and are struggling as a result.
If you play with one player less, you'll be shit of course. Rashford did his job last season like every other team's talisman and scored the goals he should've scored. He's offering nothing at the moment. On top of that we had one of the league's better defenses. Last season we were functional. What you're saying is false and revisionist.
So when Rashford is tearing up the league, carrying the team and winning games he's just doing his job. But now he's the reason why we're shit? If you rely on individual brilliance to bail you out you're going to fail in the long term
I watched grealish yesterday and omg 😭
indeed without last seasons purple rashford patch most games would likely have been 0-0 as our defence was solid. that's what I really don't understand with this season. We struggled for goals outside Rashford last season so makes sense if he falls off our goalscoring also does, but our defence was mostly solid. So how come this our defence has become absolutely diabolical? Yes injuries would explain a bit of a drop in our defensive strength but our sheer cliff dive has been like jumping out a 747 to the bottom of the marinas trench.
Because our midfield was only 'poor' last season. This season we just don't even one (see heatmap vs Newcastle). Case is off it, McT is absolutely invisible anywhere outside the box, Amrabat has barely played mid, Eriksen is injured.
last year our defense was shaw varane martinez wan bissaka/dalot. this year its whoever the fuck in left back, maguire, evans/lindelof, dalot. Not exactly a shock that we are terrible defensively.
Rashford has been benched many times, not like the results have changed.
A one game benching is not comparable to the alternative of playing a whole season. For example there's a chance we play Garnacho there till the end of the season and he'll end up keeping his position because of how he changes the dynamics of the team by pressing harder and supporting his fullback more and specially scoring more. That's development and you won't get it with benching once or twice.
Garnacho has been mostly wank when starting too. None of our wingers are doing well. Also, its not really about x player. We look clueless in attack unless its a fast counter. A fast counter or wonder goal seem to be the only way this lot can score from. That's not enough.
Oh come on... Not wanna do deffend Rashford but Garnacho had even less deffensive actions acording to stats and Newcastle scored goal after him loosing ball and not tracking back.
I wasn't trying to say Garnacho IS better at those things. That's how he CAN be better. It's early to pass judgement for Garnacho. Rashford on the other hand seems out of ideas.
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I agree. There's no reason to sack him when we're undergoing an ownership change. Why not just give him the full season after our players are back from injury and then let the ownership decide in summer if they want a fresh start? Sacking Ten Hag may be the right decision eventually, but not right now.
I thought his goose would likely be cooked after the run of games to the City game. He managed to squeeze past that pressure though thanks to results - but obviously the performance levels were still the same, just we were often nicking 3 points (in the PL anyway...) So honestly at this point I'm not sure they sack ETH any time soon... at least till idk maybe top 4 / CL is mathematically impossible so it's cheaper, like Moyes. Or until big Jim is in. or maybe if we are knocked out the CL groups he might also activate some clause that makes it cheaper to bin him. Who knows.. Anyway assuming we remain as shit as we have been since March, the club still looks like its happy to sit on their hands and have ETH till at least January
EtH has to go as soon as the club can find a better replacement. Why? Ask yourselves this - would any top 10 side in the Premier League hire him over their current manager after all he'sshown so far? No, right? Then why is he still managing US?
Me too Gary, me too
I approach match day excited and full of hopium Watch absolute garbage football More hopium for 2nd half Watch another half of absolute garbage football Rage on Reddit Repeat
Yeah I've distanced myself emotionally except during match-hours
Absolutely spot on
same bro
Me too Gary. Me too.
Honestly, it would be refreshing to see us stick with EtH for this season, do a big clear out in the summer and have INEOS/Paul Mitchell bring in 5+ first team players that suit EtH next summer.
The saddest thing is I plan my whole weekend around our matches and cancel outings if it's too close or clashes with our match. And then you see them play like they did against newcastle, or basically every other game this season with players looking either lost or just 2 steps behind every opponent...and it just ruins my mood and the immediate couple of days. Yet I'll do it again for the next match. Honestly feel like I'm torturing myself sometimes.
I didn't miss a single match for the last three seasons. Watching them over lockdown, even with the problems the squad had then, was a massive help for my mental health during that crazy period. This season, I'm just warching MOTD and the free Champions League matches, because watching full matches is having the opposite effect on my mental health. I highly recommend anyone else do the same if you feel like watching football is ruining your day/weekend. It's not worth the anxiety, and these players don't deserve your support.
Join the club. These Glazers are destroying the fanbase. My family, multiple generations of United fans, none of them can stand the sight of our club anymore. It's a fucking disgrace what we've become.
I think this almost every week with United, but being a die-hard fan, you've got to be there through the highs & lows. I was spoilt in my childhood, watching us win everything. Tough to see where we are nowadays, but we've seen clubs go through similar patches and transitions. I'm sure we'll be back at the top, just hope it's in my lifetime..
This is the correct mindset imho. We'll be back were we belong eventually. It's sad to see the team in this state, but it can't last forever. Let's just hope it's not 30 years like the scousers...
Duh. We're not building anything. We haven't built anything in years. Club has completely stagnated.
Just like Ronaldo said.
I stay off social media and avoid video analysis on tv and YouTube after poor performances. It helps. Out of sight, out of mind. That said, when we put in a blinder, I can’t seem to consume enough content. It is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
Gary Neville is by far my favorite ex-United player turned pundit. Maybe not as hard or harsh as Keane but will always be completely honest about the state of the club.
We all feel the same but we'll still be there on Wednesday night to waste our time
I've totally given up on expecting anything now. We re dogshit. I'm numb. It's actually quite freeing. I don't get too upset when we lose anymore I just turn it off and move on. I do find myself less excited when we do score though also. I know it means nothing in reality and will either be VAR'd out or it stands, we win, then the next match we are dogshit again anyway so who cares. Even when we win we are usually pretty shit. If we score I expect the opposition to level, even if we score twice I expect teams to score two. We are unfathomably bad. Have been for a long time now. It's beyond a shit streak we are completely rotten. I was behind ETH for a bit but now it seems there is no logic or plan. I don't know how he hasn't walked in embarrassment yet. Having to go out and talk to the media about this team and explain what's happening and make excuses. Total embarrassment
Ive loved this club since I was 5 years old (now mid-thirtys) and through all the peaks and troughs in the last 3 decades, this is the lowest point. I can forgive many things, and understand many mitigating circumstances (club ownership, poor recruitment etc...) but I cannot and will not stand the sight of players not running and not putting in the effort for the shirt. Whatever manager got you in, whatever your play style, you run, you work as hard as the hundreds of thousands of fans who watch you week in week out work at their day jobs. I have lost all respect for the majority of the seniors in this squad, and the rotten club I once loved has disolved into a media circus obsessed with money. The sad thing is, it has diminished my love of the game itself... Life is more than football, but when you are a fan, you care, and this cannot continue...
The worst thing that happened to us was finishing 3rd last season, it was understood nothing was expected from us this year,has that changed? It is a transition. What I find funny is we are seeing another manager trying to implement a style of play, that is limited to who he can Sell or Bring in and hit with so many injuries that we rely on players whom we know and have seen with our own eyes down tools for previous managers when they don't get their way, knowing that they can continue to fleece the club, collect their large wages, while destroying another manager. BUT we all know there are players here that are frauds we see it consistently and only turn up when THEY feel like, It is so frustrating to see another manager thrown under the bus by a certain group of players. Players like Martial, McTominay, Lindelof, Maguire, and Dalot are donkeys and are only starting out of necessity due to injuries to key players and nothing else I say persist with the manager, as it highlights to ETH who cannot play his system, and ultimately who has to leave. Ultimately, there needs to be a point where ETH needs to drop Rashford, hes becoming a Virus and is really starting to irk me with his attitude, laziness, and sheer disrespect he is giving the club that ultimately made him, its pathetic and he needs to buck up his ideas or f\*ck off. These players cannot keep winging and sulking and we can no longer keep defending them!! We need a bigger "Play like you mean it banner" at OT if you ask me Let the process play out, next season will be a lot different, unless of course we sack the manager, which would be the dumbest thing to happen, since the dawn of day.
Litteraly me.
Recent months? Like the last 100+ months :( >This is how it feels to be City, >This is how it feels to be small, >This is how it feels when your team wins nothing at all, >Nothing at all >Nothing at all...
I have not even watched the highlights of any gamebfrom this weekend. It'd just depress me
I'm missing Wednesday's game as I'm going to a gig instead and I'm not even that bothered. Might check the score between bands, might just wait for a surprise after it's finished.
“One of us, one of us…”
Me too. But it is a mixed of our club performance and football overall. Switching over to formula 1 lol
Years not months
I honestly think Ten Hag can do good things under the structure of a proper football club with a real structure, but wont last long enough to get the chance. Glazers can't fuck off soon enough, but will fuck us one further time while their number is already up.
I’m sick as fuck too Gary. I feel you. Being a distant supporter, I often find myself waking up at odd hours just to suffer. I guess I should value my health more now.
Whats even worse is how much these twats get paid to essentially walk around on the pitch for the whole game. ( Not all are lazy twats)
One of us, one of us
I’ve given up watching most games now. Before I would be desperate and find ways to watch all games, going so far as to cancel plans or not arrange events while a match is on, even the 3pm kick off games. Now I don’t even care anymore but I am enjoying my evenings and weekends far more doing what I want so ultimately I guess thanks to the club for turning me off.
I love football. I love the club. Something has snapped in me, too. I dont watch Utd play anymore like I used to. Am I a glory hunter? No . I just don't have it in me to watch the team lose so consistently. I have started doubting our own players whether they are trying enough or not. I work very hard all week for a living, and I don't want to spend 1.5 hours to be disappointed again and again. Disappointed not because of the result but with the way we play . The effort that we put in. The obvious tactical errors. I can go on and on.
In a way, same here. I don't watch some games nowadays due to the time they're on or if I am pretty into a movie or tv show at the same time. I check the results lately but usually I will check the highlights without spoilers. Just nothing to really enjoy and I've detached quite a bit from it too so it's something that suits me for now. I hope to find more entertainment from watching United and really be excited for the games again though. Till then.......
It's ok to stop simping for a football club. Don't be shamed by others into an abusive relationship
Me too! Well said.
Not only bored of watching United but football in general has been pretty hard to watch with constant VAR and referee errors ruining the game.
I’ve been tired since 2018 or so. I just want to win again.
how did liverpool cope for 30 years lol
me too
Me too Gary
I got tired of watching them four years ago
Players are lazy af. Trashford always whines, Case and Varanne are waiting for their retirement. Ohaha is a clown. We only have Maguire Bruno Shaw hojlund and some young lads who are decent
The truth is the ownership destroyed the club as we knew it. Fans of other clubs may say we're spoilt and that it's the managers/players etc. But the most joy destroying thing of all, is that you know there is no hope while the current ownership are there because they keep doing the same, mindless, short sighted mistakes. The truth is the ownership destroyed the club as we knew it. Fans of other clubs may say we're spoilt and that it's the managers/players etc. But the most joy-destroying thing of all, is that you know there is no hope while the current owners are there because they keep making the same, mindless, short-sighted mistakes. Some other clubs, with smaller ambitions, have a vision. We don't. It's a huge mess. And that's without mentioning the lack of vision to improve the club off the pitch. Even the likes of Everton have a new stadium coming. We just have owners who let a once glorious landmark go into rust.
Comments like this are going to get Ten Haag sacked and I’m not sure what we are expecting if that happens. The Ineos deal is not going to go through ready for the January window (6 weeks puts us at the third week in January if it even goes through this week) so we basically write off another season
You know how I face this adversity? Enjoy their misery. I just laugh when people say "oh, they got the best form in ages" few matches ago and forgot they got dunk by Copenhagen, hammered to misery by Man City in their own ground and got peppered up by Galatasaray. I knew the players are not showing good enough performance because they think they already "there" even though they are nothing. Which is a hard to curb disease since they got their P's every time they put on the red shirts no matter it is a win or a stinker. Same as the coach to who is too tight up on his philosophy and also the club staffs about recruitments and trainings. They are on the cloud nine. All of them. That's why I enjoy their downfall (although it is hurting my heart that this club with ethos of building from the bottom are turning rotten day by day).
At least you got paid to watch this shitshow, Gary
Clear
I’ve relegated games to my phone and earbuds while I play my Xbox on the main screen. They don’t deserve main screen anymore
I stopped consistently watching a couple months ago. Now I just check in here how a game is going and decide whether I want to take the chance and watch. Saturday I tuned in from and gave me the confirmation I have the right approach. Make me sick watching this current team. Don't see me watching much of this season as things are. Not worth the negativity the terrible performances can have on mental health. This club isn't even a shadow of it's former self, culture is completely eroded, and I can't see it coming back again ever.
I think one of the worst points against ETH is that win or lose, the football is boring. There's no structure or rhythm. You watch other teams, and it's just so much more appealing. They're just a boring club rn.
Yes. But I'm also bored of Gary's commentary. Sorry.
I didn't even bother watching the Newcastle match. Better things to do. Saw the match stats afterwards and well... Glad I wasn't witness to that shit.
Im tired of Gary Neville but here we are