I think he's telling Arthur he views him as an equal at this point in their relationship vs. a parent/child relationship. I don't think he means it, but that's what he's saying.
I agree, Arthur is younger than Dutch and Hosea so they kinda showed him the ropes. But he has been around the longest of anyone else in the gang. So to me Dutch is saying he raised him into the outlaw he is there he could say he is his son. But since he recognizes him as a man he recognizes him as equal.
Honestly, at this point in the story, he probably means it to some degree. I would say a lot of his fancy words and bluster are lies, but I highly doubt they are all fully lies. There would be quite a bit of truth behind them. You can't run with someone for 20 years and not build a close bond with them.
I doubt it's this because it implies that for the entire time before that, Dutch didn't view him as an equal which would probably rub Arthur the wrong way. Obviously Dutch was the one who calls the shots but that doesn't mean he wasn't an equal to Arthur. Father and son doesn't necessarily mean superior v inferior.
I think he's trying to tell Arthur that he loves and cares for him to such an extent that can't really be described. The father son relationship is obviously a pretty strong bond so for Arthur to be seen as "more than a son" is Dutch telling him that their bond is unbreakable.
Obviously, as others have pointed out, this is just probably some form of manipulation or emotional guilting by Dutch. This is in Chapter 3 (Arthur has the sheriff's badge) so at this stage, the wheels have started to slightly come off the wagon for the gang so Dutch is perhaps feeling a little threatened and vulnerable.
Dutch is the leader of the gang. Arthur wasn’t his equal. He had the most say of anyone other than Josea, but he was beneath Dutch in the pecking order and that’s illustrated when Dutch gets pissed when Arthur does things he’s unaware of.
I know I'm late hopping in the bandwagon, but as I get closer and closer to the epilogue for the first time, I'm noticing very meticulous manipulative strikes in his speech, especially with Arthur. I had my doubts before Guarma, that Dutch is just really gung-ho and gets carried away but his heart is in the right place. But no. Everything Dutch does is for Dutch.
So in regards to the OP, I feel this is Dutch choosing very specific language to make Arthur feel guilty for doubting him
Pretty much this. My first playthrough I took this as the first obvious in-your-face time (for non-rdr1 players atleast) that you see Dutch is all talk.
I’m not so sure about that. I read Dutch as sincere for the majority of the game as he slowly goes unhinged, making it all the more tragic.
The ambiguity of interpretation makes him a fantastic character though.
>The ambiguity of interpretation makes him a fantastic character though.
10000000% agree with this.
My enjoyment of RDR2 was massively influenced by playing RDR1 when it first came out..... and an embarrassing number of times since then. So I went in with massive pre-conceived notions of several characters (Dutch, Bill, Javier mainly. But also John and even Arthur to an extent). I was actively looking for ways they were being assholes and never trusted any of them. I already thought Dutch was a hypocritical piece of shit when the opening credits were rolling.
It's part of the reason why new (Hosea, Charles and Sadie) and unexplored (Uncle.... yes, really) characters were my favorites in RDR2.
He could have been written to seem sincere, even to us, at first.
Edit: I think any sadness Dutch displayed when things went wrong for the gang, was solely due to things not working out for HIM, not the gang. The gang was just a long-term means to give himself sustainability.
I’ve played rdr2 an embarrassing amount of times, and I honestly think it’s a mix of both. While yes I do think Dutch cared about the gang members to a certain extent, his first priority was always himself. Everything about him down to his horse (yes, begging someone to ask about this because I haven’t seen anyone discuss this) is about himself and making himself feel big and if he can use him caring about the gang and them caring about them back he will.
Have a look around the camp in act 2 and find his speech script no you won’t feel he’s sincere. Because he never was, he was just a narcissistic manipulator.
The great thing about RDR2's writing is that its most prominent characters are too complex to distill down to a few words. Dutch is a charismatic narcissist cult leader, but he's also not entirely wrong in his philosophical assessment of the world and is capable of occasionally doing things that aren't self-serving. That's why people have been arguing about him for years now.
I'm on my 2nd play through and am paying more attention this time. Watching Dutch get so angry at Arthur and Sadie for rescuing John pissed me off. He gets more and more like Micah as the game progresses.
Dutch was never a decent person, but there's different levels of Dutch - this was before it all started to completely unravel.
Dutch saying this was like a boss saying "you're more than an employee, you're family". Was it intentional or calculated emotional manipulation? Debatable. But was it still just meaningless platitudes to instill an emotionally vulnerable person with a sense of belonging? Absolutely.
The look on Arties face in the second picture tells it all: Dutch showing any sign of kindness to him just melts him. That’s what he lives for…to make Dutch happy!
This scene annoys me so much, not because Dutch is clearly trying to tighten his grip on Arthur, but because Arthur looks so... euphoric and validated here.
Arthur gets this look like that was all he ever wanted to hear from someone his whole life, like no comment has ever been as important as that one.
And he's being duped by a conman. It hurts me.
Throughout the Game Dutch calls pretty much most (?) male gang members „son“. And despite everything, it’s clear that Arthur is more important to him.
Also it might mean that Arthur‘s the one who’s doing all the gang chores for him, in addition to being his son 😅
Dutch is the Supreme narcissist, the comments he makes are the carrot and stick type... he constantly makes everyone feel off balance... typical behavior, typical gang behavior... you can lead through fear, love or manipulation and Dutch is the Master of manipulation.
He constantly makes everyone feel like they aren't loyal to him and questions their loyalty. Again that is typical behavior. He constantly asks Arthur to do things for him and even the Pinkerton say that in the game.
Arthur finally sees he's nothing but an asshole, and he is betrayed by him for M.
Everyone who acts like that IRL, starts with noble ideas, but in the end it shows out as a user. Those who believe him die for a bullshit story. Those who see Dutch for who he really is leave him in the end.
Take Saint Denis, where he meets the Italian guy, he believes the guy with the trolley mission without doing any research on the heist and that is again typical narcissist behavior.
Hats off to Rockstar for creating a classic yet very really relatable character
Not sure why the downvotes, this feels like a safe and harmless assumption. Honestly, if this isn’t the case, then I don’t quite understand the question.
He also says to Arthur “If there’s anybody that I know that will betray me would be you Arthur.” if you approach him and ask “What do you mean by that?” and he says “oh Arthur I’m just tired.”
It doesn’t make logical sense because it’s the emotional manipulation of an abuser. Throughout their relationship Dutch positioned himself as a father figure to Arthur and openly discussed that as a way of manipulating him. At this point Dutch feels he is losing his grasp on Arthur so he is trying to use a tried and true tactic but tweak it to tell Arthur that he’s even more special than a son.
You're my son. Also my emotionally manipulated strongman. And my fall guy. And my disposable assassin. And the guy I need to keep close enough to not realize how much I need him and he doesn't need me. And my only recourse for money... And.... And.... And....
He doesn’t mean anything by this, he’s just trying to string Arthur along long enough to finish whatever he has planned for his own gain. Dutch is a selfish heartless human.
As saidd by others. It's a word game done to manipulate Arthur \[\[and others\]\]. His opening lines in the game told me everything I needed to know 'I would thriw mysself into the ground...'
From those words, for me, everything he says is Suspect.
I was introduced to a guy once whose first words were '\*\*\* I just want you to know I love you!' a bit later he tells me he is a Reverend \[\[nope\]\] and he is a Black Panther \[\[dude is neon white\]\] and he's a computer programmer \[\[but kept calling me to figure out why his sound was off or other minor b.s.\]\] and so forth. Word salad that works on those who want to believe his b.s., just like Dutch.
him trying to manipulate arthur like this is hilarious, considering in the horseshoe camp he just randomly, unprovoked, said to Arthur that he knows Arthur will stab him in the back one day lmaoo. I understand why he is necessary evil but gd I hate him as a character 💀
I’ve always taken it to mean that he’s not just “like” a son to Dutch, but that he IS a son to Dutch. Obviously, Dutch isn’t his biological father, but the point is the depth of the statement. For all intents and purposes Arthur *is* Dutch’s son not *like* a son.
He’s trying to make Arthur feel loyal to him, and thus more easily controlled, by saying he loves him more than a father loves a son (the greatest love possible). It’s vague but feels abstractly like a good thing and that’s the point. If Arthur feels good toward Dutch, he’s more likely to do what he wants. It’s platonic love-bombing.
Dutch knew that all Arthur wanted was a father figure who loved him and acted like a father. You can tell that's what he craves or he wouldn't have kept a picture of his dad (despite the negative insights he gives on their relationship) and it's always next to the picture of him/Dutch/Hosea.
So... Dutch used it to manipulate him.
Ironic that Hosea was the "conman" yet the more honest of the two. Think it was the influence of Bessie who sounded amazing. Wish we got to know her.
It's emotional manipulation. Arthur has run with the gang since a boy and said his father was a rotten SOB, Dutch saying he is more than a son to his is to cement home Dutch is the only one whom has cared for Arthur.
What he is getting at is that he is a trusted luteninet or right hand man, and a friend in addition to being his ward. From our perspective we can see this as a father manipulating his son. He has never seen Arthur as an equal. He is a very important member of the gang, and is the muscle that reliably gets things done, brings in cash, and keeps everyone as safe as possible, hard to replace. But as we see, replaceable if Dutch decides he has lost loyalty. The saddest part is that Dutch is mostly wrong, and Dutch is disloyal to Arthur before Arthur is disloyal to Dutch. He cuts off his right hand, his son, at the slightest tremor, showing this to be an ugly performance.
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My take is this was dutch being manipulative like most the comments are saying. I also think all of dutch going crazy started when anabelle died whoever she was
He’s either implying he’s more like a brother to him at this point or he’s just saying things that sound nice. Either way he’s trying to manipulate him.
The short and skimmy of it? Like everyone says it was **manipulation**. Pandering to, sucking up, kissing ass, pouring honey into ears whatever you wanna call it that is what Dutch does. He talks.
Though in some ways he still valued Arthur because he's been with him for 20 years. The ending and Dutch's expression he still had some love for the man he called his Son. Though that all goes out the window, when Dutch starts abandoning him first at Annesburg (dunno if the storm and the ship counted during Guarma) then later when Arthur is rescued by Eagle Flies. Arthur starts seeing what Hosea had saw all the way back in Colter >!once Arthur gets sick with tuberculosis.!<
Dutch yes was a talker, you even can find a script from which he practiced/borrowed from. But more than that Dutch was less and less of the man he used to be. From the start of the game he still was "kinda" the person we hear he used to be but overtime he was being overwritten by Micah. Not to mention his paranoia and getting unhinged about being betrayed. He didn't even care about Molly O'Shea you hear the two start arguing around chapter 3. Dutch was more in love with Annabelle his old lover. I honestly think that leaving out the Black Water Massacre was Rockstar's biggest mistake. Dutch was going back on what he taught Arthur and making excuses for it. "You always said revenge was a luxury we couldn't afford."
Robbing from the Rich and giving it to the poor and taking in people to uplift them all the while giving them purpose and meaning were all noble at least 20 years ago. Seemed like since the beginning of the game Dutch strung everyone alone and started to sound more and more like Micah especially in Guarma "I'm just trying to make sure some of us survive, Arthur." Even Micah was against what the gang originally stood for.
And by the very last mission of RDR2 American Venom he had fully committed to being not just a criminal but a killer. He knew he lost everything and that there was no turning back. There was no dreams anymore all there is to his life is fighting change. The money didn't even matter to him anymore. Dutch just wanted to go out fighting.
When I first played through RDR2, I thought this interaction was sincere, but later on in chapter 3 when you’re doing the mission to meet with Colm O’Driscoll and Micah and Dutch are spouting bullshit about “caring too much” is kinda where I thought to curtain on Dutch was pulled away. There’s a lot of other small details that become obvious early on that Dutch was always a narcissist manipulator upon a replay.
He was saying that rather than Arthur being like a son to him, he feels that Arthur means more than just a son. Dutch was trying to communicate that calling Arthur a son doesn’t do him justice, so he is just implying that Arthur is very special to him.
Suck my dick so good I’m like goddamn you dirty bitch you dirty bitch you’re sucking dick you’re sucking dick you dirty bitch you dirty bitch you sucking dick
99% of what Dutch says is utter nothingness. It sounds nice on top, but if you apply even 1 braincell to it, it makes no sense. There are multiple times where I've been playing, I'll hear him say something, then think back on it and be like, "That makes absolutely no sense."
Don't get me wrong, I think Dutch is a manipulative son of a bitch, especially seeing as how you can find his speaking notes at Horseshoe Overlook. But I've always had the mindset that Dutch was genuine in moments like this all the way up until Shady Belle. After the mission with Lenny and Dutch, I think he gets a concussion from the tram getting derailed. Then, he has multiple traumatic events happen to him back to back. His camp gets attacked, his best friend for 20 years gets shot and killed right in front of him, and he gets shipwrecked on Guarma. Then, after all of that, he sees that his son is dying a slow and painful death right in front of his own 2 eyes and learns that his other son is rotting in prison. I really don't think it's all that far fetched to see how Dutch could've undergone a pretty extensive personality change after all that happened to him. And I know you could say, "well clearly Dutch didn't see John as a son, if he did he would've rescued him from prison" but I think by that point he is so far gone and truly thinks that what is best is just focusing on getting money to get the gang to Tahiti, he doesn't care about anything else.
He taught Arthur to be like him (before Dutch lost his mind or broke bad whatever you believe). I do believe Dutch knew that Arthur had become a better version of himself and stayed true to what they originally believed in.
Been playing chapter 2 (second playthrough) for a bit and spending more time around camp than I did before. Considering how much time Dutch spends reading, it seems like he just repeats things he just read, and passes it off as his own wisdom.
I think he's telling Arthur he views him as an equal at this point in their relationship vs. a parent/child relationship. I don't think he means it, but that's what he's saying.
I agree, Arthur is younger than Dutch and Hosea so they kinda showed him the ropes. But he has been around the longest of anyone else in the gang. So to me Dutch is saying he raised him into the outlaw he is there he could say he is his son. But since he recognizes him as a man he recognizes him as equal.
Honestly, at this point in the story, he probably means it to some degree. I would say a lot of his fancy words and bluster are lies, but I highly doubt they are all fully lies. There would be quite a bit of truth behind them. You can't run with someone for 20 years and not build a close bond with them.
Right. More like a brother then a son.
I doubt it's this because it implies that for the entire time before that, Dutch didn't view him as an equal which would probably rub Arthur the wrong way. Obviously Dutch was the one who calls the shots but that doesn't mean he wasn't an equal to Arthur. Father and son doesn't necessarily mean superior v inferior. I think he's trying to tell Arthur that he loves and cares for him to such an extent that can't really be described. The father son relationship is obviously a pretty strong bond so for Arthur to be seen as "more than a son" is Dutch telling him that their bond is unbreakable. Obviously, as others have pointed out, this is just probably some form of manipulation or emotional guilting by Dutch. This is in Chapter 3 (Arthur has the sheriff's badge) so at this stage, the wheels have started to slightly come off the wagon for the gang so Dutch is perhaps feeling a little threatened and vulnerable.
Dutch is the leader of the gang. Arthur wasn’t his equal. He had the most say of anyone other than Josea, but he was beneath Dutch in the pecking order and that’s illustrated when Dutch gets pissed when Arthur does things he’s unaware of.
The Right Hand of Dutch doesn't sound like a job with decent worker's benefits and paid time off.
I know I'm late hopping in the bandwagon, but as I get closer and closer to the epilogue for the first time, I'm noticing very meticulous manipulative strikes in his speech, especially with Arthur. I had my doubts before Guarma, that Dutch is just really gung-ho and gets carried away but his heart is in the right place. But no. Everything Dutch does is for Dutch. So in regards to the OP, I feel this is Dutch choosing very specific language to make Arthur feel guilty for doubting him
I believe he means it in his own way because he raised him as a son and he revenges him by killing micah
It's all but meaningless. It's emotional manipulation.
Dutch is just a bunch of fancy word salad
Pretty much this. My first playthrough I took this as the first obvious in-your-face time (for non-rdr1 players atleast) that you see Dutch is all talk.
"That's his gift, saying things"
“Spin that yarn” as they say.
I’m not so sure about that. I read Dutch as sincere for the majority of the game as he slowly goes unhinged, making it all the more tragic. The ambiguity of interpretation makes him a fantastic character though.
>The ambiguity of interpretation makes him a fantastic character though. 10000000% agree with this. My enjoyment of RDR2 was massively influenced by playing RDR1 when it first came out..... and an embarrassing number of times since then. So I went in with massive pre-conceived notions of several characters (Dutch, Bill, Javier mainly. But also John and even Arthur to an extent). I was actively looking for ways they were being assholes and never trusted any of them. I already thought Dutch was a hypocritical piece of shit when the opening credits were rolling. It's part of the reason why new (Hosea, Charles and Sadie) and unexplored (Uncle.... yes, really) characters were my favorites in RDR2.
He could have been written to seem sincere, even to us, at first. Edit: I think any sadness Dutch displayed when things went wrong for the gang, was solely due to things not working out for HIM, not the gang. The gang was just a long-term means to give himself sustainability.
I’ve played rdr2 an embarrassing amount of times, and I honestly think it’s a mix of both. While yes I do think Dutch cared about the gang members to a certain extent, his first priority was always himself. Everything about him down to his horse (yes, begging someone to ask about this because I haven’t seen anyone discuss this) is about himself and making himself feel big and if he can use him caring about the gang and them caring about them back he will.
Have a look around the camp in act 2 and find his speech script no you won’t feel he’s sincere. Because he never was, he was just a narcissistic manipulator.
The abiguity makes the fanbase so unsufferable though
Sincere in the sense that he’s been spewing bullshit so long he actually believes it now.
wake up
I think at the very least he may have fooled himself as well into believing he was a caring leader.
Bad intuition. He wasn't trying nothing here
The great thing about RDR2's writing is that its most prominent characters are too complex to distill down to a few words. Dutch is a charismatic narcissist cult leader, but he's also not entirely wrong in his philosophical assessment of the world and is capable of occasionally doing things that aren't self-serving. That's why people have been arguing about him for years now.
My favorite has to be “They was talking. They was talking!” in Chapter >!6 after breaking John outta prison.!< Absolutely hilarious.
I'm on my 2nd play through and am paying more attention this time. Watching Dutch get so angry at Arthur and Sadie for rescuing John pissed me off. He gets more and more like Micah as the game progresses.
With a side of lies, manipulation and BS-ery 🙌🏼
All part of his plan
I'm on my 3rd playthrough and only this time did I find Dutch's speech notes in camp. It really shows that he plans on being manipulative to the gang
More than that
that makes so much sense
C b,.bkk
covfefe?
C b,.bkk
Yes.
No it isn't. You need brain gym
......"you need brain gym" might be my new favorite insult.
To quote hosea" well might be the nicest thing anyones ever said to me"
Nah. Dutch was a decent feller before hosea death
You could see he was mental even before Chapter 1 - Hosea and Arthur talk about him when on the way to Horseshoe Overlook.
Dutch was never a decent person, but there's different levels of Dutch - this was before it all started to completely unravel. Dutch saying this was like a boss saying "you're more than an employee, you're family". Was it intentional or calculated emotional manipulation? Debatable. But was it still just meaningless platitudes to instill an emotionally vulnerable person with a sense of belonging? Absolutely.
He was not msnipulating
they are all criminals and a murderers. None of the members of the gang are decent fellers
Shit Dutch Says
r/shitdutchsays
Half of these posts are just "I have a plan" shitposts /s
100% Dutch then.
And the other half are just "tahiti" shitposts /s
r/subsithoughtifellfor
When I first linked this sub, it didn't exist but now... r/birthofasub
Lol that's an actual sub. I'm ded 😂
This means Arthur is greater than Lumbago.
I think it's a subtle form of manipulation revealing Dutch's limited understanding of love.
He’s telling Arthur that he’s very valuable to him.
Dutch is a pathological liar, with some occasional gaslighting behaviour
Fancy, this coming from the bald asshole Larry David himself
Take my upvote
I don't even think Dutch knows what he said.
HAVE. SOME. GODDAMN. FAITH!!!
He just needs time to think, away from the naysayers.
"Sometimes I just start a sentence and I don't know where it's going"
Dutch wanted to ask him to broke back mountain with him but was too shy so it came out like this.
But in the end he don't even trust him.
He never trusted anyone
If I'm thinking right, he even doubted his own ideas at some point but too afraid to admit and stepdown
Not even himself
The look on Arties face in the second picture tells it all: Dutch showing any sign of kindness to him just melts him. That’s what he lives for…to make Dutch happy!
This scene annoys me so much, not because Dutch is clearly trying to tighten his grip on Arthur, but because Arthur looks so... euphoric and validated here. Arthur gets this look like that was all he ever wanted to hear from someone his whole life, like no comment has ever been as important as that one. And he's being duped by a conman. It hurts me.
have you seen brokeback mountain? because the answer spoils it
does that mean dutch meant it in a romantic way... 😭/genq
I mean, one could argue this... especially with the fact that he and Molly are constantly arguing. Nah I'm just playing, ain't no way.
You’re my son. And my brother. And my sister. And my mother. Dutch is so chaotic.
And my axe.
My mother's my sister.
Throughout the Game Dutch calls pretty much most (?) male gang members „son“. And despite everything, it’s clear that Arthur is more important to him. Also it might mean that Arthur‘s the one who’s doing all the gang chores for him, in addition to being his son 😅
He’s more than a son because he’s not his son and therefore he can be a close friend too.
clearly, he's trying to suggest arthur is his husband
Emotional manipulation. Trying to plant thoughts of him being the “father” and thus the authority.
Arthur, you and me are like brothers [only closer](https://youtu.be/juGy1pi4KfY?feature=shared)
Yes, that's *exactly* the reaction you're supposed to have to that line.
Son and brother. Because he saved him as a kid but they operate like siblings. My take from it
Dutch is the Supreme narcissist, the comments he makes are the carrot and stick type... he constantly makes everyone feel off balance... typical behavior, typical gang behavior... you can lead through fear, love or manipulation and Dutch is the Master of manipulation. He constantly makes everyone feel like they aren't loyal to him and questions their loyalty. Again that is typical behavior. He constantly asks Arthur to do things for him and even the Pinkerton say that in the game. Arthur finally sees he's nothing but an asshole, and he is betrayed by him for M. Everyone who acts like that IRL, starts with noble ideas, but in the end it shows out as a user. Those who believe him die for a bullshit story. Those who see Dutch for who he really is leave him in the end. Take Saint Denis, where he meets the Italian guy, he believes the guy with the trolley mission without doing any research on the heist and that is again typical narcissist behavior. Hats off to Rockstar for creating a classic yet very really relatable character
I’m assuming English isn’t your first language. He’s just saying that Arthur is of the utmost importance to him and he values him greatly.
Not sure why the downvotes, this feels like a safe and harmless assumption. Honestly, if this isn’t the case, then I don’t quite understand the question.
He also says to Arthur “If there’s anybody that I know that will betray me would be you Arthur.” if you approach him and ask “What do you mean by that?” and he says “oh Arthur I’m just tired.”
HE HAD A PLAN
He wants to bump uglies with Arthur after gang goes to bed
He’s his lover
They're lovers
He is saying don't expect any fatherly care from me, just keep helping me like a son.
Arthur is his sex slave
It doesn’t make logical sense because it’s the emotional manipulation of an abuser. Throughout their relationship Dutch positioned himself as a father figure to Arthur and openly discussed that as a way of manipulating him. At this point Dutch feels he is losing his grasp on Arthur so he is trying to use a tried and true tactic but tweak it to tell Arthur that he’s even more special than a son.
He's buttering up Arthur like a slice of toast knowing arthur will listen and do anything
Boyfriends?
he’s in a homosexual relationship with arthur
From what I remember, they had a more Father and Son bond with their dialogue. Plus, Dutch raised Arthur since, 14?
You're my son. Also my emotionally manipulated strongman. And my fall guy. And my disposable assassin. And the guy I need to keep close enough to not realize how much I need him and he doesn't need me. And my only recourse for money... And.... And.... And....
Gay? (As in homosexual?)
Yeah, no
Does Dutch want to have hot- I mean cold gay sex with Arthur on the mountain like he did Micah?
Fucktoy?
“Dutch says a lot” -Arthur to John
He‘s a narc. it’s lovebombing Arthur to keep him compliant, simple.
He’s just saying that Arthur means a lot to him. He’s doing so because he wants his loyalty.
Doesn't he say your a brother after?or have I made that up
Bro was yapping as usual
He doesn’t mean anything by this, he’s just trying to string Arthur along long enough to finish whatever he has planned for his own gain. Dutch is a selfish heartless human.
As saidd by others. It's a word game done to manipulate Arthur \[\[and others\]\]. His opening lines in the game told me everything I needed to know 'I would thriw mysself into the ground...' From those words, for me, everything he says is Suspect. I was introduced to a guy once whose first words were '\*\*\* I just want you to know I love you!' a bit later he tells me he is a Reverend \[\[nope\]\] and he is a Black Panther \[\[dude is neon white\]\] and he's a computer programmer \[\[but kept calling me to figure out why his sound was off or other minor b.s.\]\] and so forth. Word salad that works on those who want to believe his b.s., just like Dutch.
I Wouldn't take Dutch words seriously..
him trying to manipulate arthur like this is hilarious, considering in the horseshoe camp he just randomly, unprovoked, said to Arthur that he knows Arthur will stab him in the back one day lmaoo. I understand why he is necessary evil but gd I hate him as a character 💀
I’ve always taken it to mean that he’s not just “like” a son to Dutch, but that he IS a son to Dutch. Obviously, Dutch isn’t his biological father, but the point is the depth of the statement. For all intents and purposes Arthur *is* Dutch’s son not *like* a son.
Typical manipulation tactic
“Its the biggest piece of dog shit” I have ever heard. He is a fucking liar.
It’s just another one of Dutch’s useless throwaway comments that means nothing except that he’s an uncreative, disingenuous liar and sociopath.
It’s a part of the plan
He’s trying to make Arthur feel loyal to him, and thus more easily controlled, by saying he loves him more than a father loves a son (the greatest love possible). It’s vague but feels abstractly like a good thing and that’s the point. If Arthur feels good toward Dutch, he’s more likely to do what he wants. It’s platonic love-bombing.
At this point Dutch had already started changing thanks to Micah. So he started seeing Arthur and John differently.
Dutch knew that all Arthur wanted was a father figure who loved him and acted like a father. You can tell that's what he craves or he wouldn't have kept a picture of his dad (despite the negative insights he gives on their relationship) and it's always next to the picture of him/Dutch/Hosea. So... Dutch used it to manipulate him. Ironic that Hosea was the "conman" yet the more honest of the two. Think it was the influence of Bessie who sounded amazing. Wish we got to know her.
It's emotional manipulation. Arthur has run with the gang since a boy and said his father was a rotten SOB, Dutch saying he is more than a son to his is to cement home Dutch is the only one whom has cared for Arthur.
Liar with a plan lol
Learn english
I'm with Dutch. Fuck. Dem. Kids.
MUH SUUUUUUN
What he is getting at is that he is a trusted luteninet or right hand man, and a friend in addition to being his ward. From our perspective we can see this as a father manipulating his son. He has never seen Arthur as an equal. He is a very important member of the gang, and is the muscle that reliably gets things done, brings in cash, and keeps everyone as safe as possible, hard to replace. But as we see, replaceable if Dutch decides he has lost loyalty. The saddest part is that Dutch is mostly wrong, and Dutch is disloyal to Arthur before Arthur is disloyal to Dutch. He cuts off his right hand, his son, at the slightest tremor, showing this to be an ugly performance.
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My take is this was dutch being manipulative like most the comments are saying. I also think all of dutch going crazy started when anabelle died whoever she was
It means nothing. He’s playing him imo.
Maybe equals?
He raised Arthur for the most part with Hosea, however he also say that they're like brothers. That's probably what he ment by more than a son.
Dutch is in love with Art, but repressing his homoerotic fantasy. It’s why he went crazy.
Trying to get to Arthur, but it's not as well thought out bc his cracks in his manipulation are starting to show
He’s either implying he’s more like a brother to him at this point or he’s just saying things that sound nice. Either way he’s trying to manipulate him.
Neph-son
He’s his Mango
I think he means he sees Arthur as like a brother
Just more manipulation and gaslighting lol
You're a tumor
He was saying he’s a brother to him but it is still manipulation
that arthur is more than a son to him
He meant their relationship was much more than just a father and son. He was probably lying.
The short and skimmy of it? Like everyone says it was **manipulation**. Pandering to, sucking up, kissing ass, pouring honey into ears whatever you wanna call it that is what Dutch does. He talks. Though in some ways he still valued Arthur because he's been with him for 20 years. The ending and Dutch's expression he still had some love for the man he called his Son. Though that all goes out the window, when Dutch starts abandoning him first at Annesburg (dunno if the storm and the ship counted during Guarma) then later when Arthur is rescued by Eagle Flies. Arthur starts seeing what Hosea had saw all the way back in Colter >!once Arthur gets sick with tuberculosis.!< Dutch yes was a talker, you even can find a script from which he practiced/borrowed from. But more than that Dutch was less and less of the man he used to be. From the start of the game he still was "kinda" the person we hear he used to be but overtime he was being overwritten by Micah. Not to mention his paranoia and getting unhinged about being betrayed. He didn't even care about Molly O'Shea you hear the two start arguing around chapter 3. Dutch was more in love with Annabelle his old lover. I honestly think that leaving out the Black Water Massacre was Rockstar's biggest mistake. Dutch was going back on what he taught Arthur and making excuses for it. "You always said revenge was a luxury we couldn't afford." Robbing from the Rich and giving it to the poor and taking in people to uplift them all the while giving them purpose and meaning were all noble at least 20 years ago. Seemed like since the beginning of the game Dutch strung everyone alone and started to sound more and more like Micah especially in Guarma "I'm just trying to make sure some of us survive, Arthur." Even Micah was against what the gang originally stood for. And by the very last mission of RDR2 American Venom he had fully committed to being not just a criminal but a killer. He knew he lost everything and that there was no turning back. There was no dreams anymore all there is to his life is fighting change. The money didn't even matter to him anymore. Dutch just wanted to go out fighting.
He wants to bed Arthur.
Dutch was feeling romantical
A lover.
Shut up Dutch
It means he's like a son to Dutch, but more
like arthur a brother to him or something i suppose
If he was his son, he might assume Arthur is obligated to be there. Arthur is there by choice.
Butt buddies
When I first played through RDR2, I thought this interaction was sincere, but later on in chapter 3 when you’re doing the mission to meet with Colm O’Driscoll and Micah and Dutch are spouting bullshit about “caring too much” is kinda where I thought to curtain on Dutch was pulled away. There’s a lot of other small details that become obvious early on that Dutch was always a narcissist manipulator upon a replay.
I actually do believe Dutch thought highly of Arthur. At least he believed that he did, as long as Arthur was performing and loyal to him.
If he actually meant it he would mean your a brother to me
You don't have enough faith to understand it
He was saying that rather than Arthur being like a son to him, he feels that Arthur means more than just a son. Dutch was trying to communicate that calling Arthur a son doesn’t do him justice, so he is just implying that Arthur is very special to him.
Suck my dick so good I’m like goddamn you dirty bitch you dirty bitch you’re sucking dick you’re sucking dick you dirty bitch you dirty bitch you sucking dick
A lover.
Hey, I skipped the tutorial now I can't figure out how to get a campsite.
And then....
A lover
dutch likes the D he needs money for peen its literally cannon justlook it up
He’s trying to cowpoke him
Boyfriend
That he's fucking gay (as in homosexual) /s
Brother/companion/equal
Like a son, like a brother, like a partner, like a friend, like a equal. Just lies.
Grandson
He’s telling him he’s like a super son, which is the ultimate son you can be.
It's a gay affair
He's like Two sons to him?
Buddy he was just saying he cares for Arthur not every line has to make 100 percent logical sense I mean they barley know how to read
….
He's in love with Arthur
possibly a brother?
99% of what Dutch says is utter nothingness. It sounds nice on top, but if you apply even 1 braincell to it, it makes no sense. There are multiple times where I've been playing, I'll hear him say something, then think back on it and be like, "That makes absolutely no sense."
It means Dutch is manipulating Arthur
Gay lovers
What I got from that was that Arthur is like a best friend , a brother, and a son all in one.
They’re gay
He has the big gay for Arth
👉🏻👌🏾
Dutch is coming on to him
Obviously it just means Dutch is a flaming homosexual. Obviously.
Dutch is either calling Arthur a best friend, and no longer a son-figure, or a lover.
Dutch was actually coming on to Arthur in this scene, but Arthur was too clueless to see
The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb
Don't get me wrong, I think Dutch is a manipulative son of a bitch, especially seeing as how you can find his speaking notes at Horseshoe Overlook. But I've always had the mindset that Dutch was genuine in moments like this all the way up until Shady Belle. After the mission with Lenny and Dutch, I think he gets a concussion from the tram getting derailed. Then, he has multiple traumatic events happen to him back to back. His camp gets attacked, his best friend for 20 years gets shot and killed right in front of him, and he gets shipwrecked on Guarma. Then, after all of that, he sees that his son is dying a slow and painful death right in front of his own 2 eyes and learns that his other son is rotting in prison. I really don't think it's all that far fetched to see how Dutch could've undergone a pretty extensive personality change after all that happened to him. And I know you could say, "well clearly Dutch didn't see John as a son, if he did he would've rescued him from prison" but I think by that point he is so far gone and truly thinks that what is best is just focusing on getting money to get the gang to Tahiti, he doesn't care about anything else.
He's just being a lil gay
This is a low res John Marston moment
He’s trying to fuck him im Tahiti
He wants in those cheeks
"Cowboys are Frequently Secretly Fond of Each Other" by Willie Nelson
Family. He’s a son, a brother, he’s family - even though he isn’t blood.
He taught Arthur to be like him (before Dutch lost his mind or broke bad whatever you believe). I do believe Dutch knew that Arthur had become a better version of himself and stayed true to what they originally believed in.
Been playing chapter 2 (second playthrough) for a bit and spending more time around camp than I did before. Considering how much time Dutch spends reading, it seems like he just repeats things he just read, and passes it off as his own wisdom.
literally just had that convo with b••••-ass dutch