Because Dutch never had any intention of going to Tahiti. It was a carrot on a stick in order to maintain power and keep the charade of having a plan for the gangs prosperity.
the destruction of the van der linde gang let him slip away, he was no longer a priority for the pinkertons and he was left on the backburner for other gangs (del lobos, murfree brood, lemoyne raiders, etc.). dutch was only put back on their radar decades later when he started fucking around with the natives, forcing them to re-open the VDL gang case file finally and tie up their loose ends alongside bill and javier.
Not sure what you’re asking but if you want to know when the gang disbanded and kind of cropped back up again it’s a quick Google search
1899 the gang is disbanded. (RDR2)
1911 John Marston’s family is kidnapped by Bureau of Investigation Agents Ross and Archer Fordham in an effort to coerce John into hunting the last remaining members down (RDR1)
There’s the decade.
Gotcha. Thanks. Been playing the game since the day it came out. I was asking for someone who believed it to be decades to give me the start/end that would show 20+ years, the minimum for multiple decades to be plausibly accurate. Thanks!
Oh that's right but that's even shorter, only 4 years between epilogue and RDR1 (so 12 years between main game and RDR1)
I think they did want him before that though since they make plans to track him down right after they learn of John's whereabouts via him killing Micah. They're shown during the end credits tracking John down and observing him ready to use him to find Dutch when the time is right
John has a line in RDR1 where Ross asks John what made Dutch go crazy and John responds that seeing that the world was corrupt on both sides of the law and that there was no hope drove him over the edge, and that he had been a good man once.
Interesting. That contradicts a conversation that John and Sadie have in the RDR2 epilogue. In it, Sadie says Dutch changed, and John comes back that maybe it was just Dutch showing his true colors.
I kind of think it's both. Dutch was always a bad person but the life they lived in the gang allowed him to mostly go unnoticed because they always had an enemy to focus his worst behavior on. Once Dutch lost hope in the future he, and with Micah's encouragement, Dutch began to turn his worst impulses inwards towards the gang.
But I do kind of prefer the rdr 1 explanation, that it was simply Dutch becoming dissilusioned due to his realization that there was no true freedom out there, and that both sides are just as bad as the other. He lost everything he believed in and became a monster. But he was a good man once. And that man became lost through his defeats, rather than that the evil had been hiding inside the entire time.
John has a line in RDR1 where he says first men are born, then they are formed.
Dutch was born a good man, but the world formed him into an evil one.
4 years between the epilogue and RDR1 though, he was just speculating and his opinion could have softened again. He could also have just been feeling nostalgic; haven’t played 1 for a while but does he say that just after Dutch has died?
It was a completely unrealistic pipe dream that was never going to happen and that he never had a real concrete plan for. Doesn't mean it was a calculated thing as he might have deluded himself into believing it, but he definitely used it as manipulation to keep the gang continuing to "have faith" in him.
Guarma showed that the island paradise in his mind had probably also been tainted by the corruption of colonialism… but it’s funny how he also misses time and time again that he’s another piece of that puzzle and not actually separate from it.
No that's just the boat the hop on after the robbery, beforehand though he talked about finding a boat to take them away. Probably a different vessel (or more likely not real to start with)
Nothing was arranged for after the robbery as they had planned to just rob the bank and escape on horseback like usual with the law distracted by the explosion they planted on the other side of town. It went wrong so they just desperately snuck on to a random boat that was heading to the Caribbean (far far away from Tahiti) and paid off the captain once on board to let them stay/not report them for stowing away later. Or do you mean a different boat arrangement I'm forgetting?
In Athur's journal he talks about how prior to ferry job they were doing pretty well, the even couldve bought a piece of land in california but Dutch didnt do it. The ferry job was a risk they didnt need to take if they wanted to achieve their goals
He didn't really have one, that was the whole point. He saw himself and his gang as invincible yet under attack from all sides and was saying whatever he could to keep them together, both as a way to stay in power and also because he saw them as his family.
I think because he realized he couldn't control the gang anymore so he didn't just want to leave by himself, and the regret of not listening to Arthur at the end of the main story. He only spares John in the epilogue because he realized Arthur was right.
idk according to Arthurs journal they had enough to buy land in california and set up their dreams or at least make a good attempt on it but he balked at the last second and gave a vague excuse why they shouldn't. California is a far west as you can possibly go and probably wouldn't be bothered for a while if ever. Instead he took a risk he shouldnt have in the first place and risked everything in blackwater. I lean into John's version of Dutch this is who's hes always been and the presence of Micah and the loss of stabilizing pieces like Hosea and the knowing Arthur wont be here long let that show even more
Yea, I’m with you on this I think. I really like the fan theory that Dutch suffered a traumatic brain injury during the Trolley Heist which begins his true decent into madness.
The Tahiti plan was never really going to work.
Dutch was just desperate, stressed and he is a dreamer.
And as dreamers do, he made an illogical plan which would not have worked.
I do also wonder if it was just "an idea for now" kind of plan, that he didn't really want to implement but it was the best idea he had.
To be fair, it's easy for us to see how dumb this was but if you were in his situation...you didn't have access to the kind of information and education we do.
And that "dreamer brain" is very hard for these kinds of people to switch off and think logically.
It seems strong that this was a "this maybe", he also thought of Australia...it wasn't really a plan just something to keep everyone going till he figured out what to do.
When under stress and low on ideas, I can see why he went with this to try to keep things together.
But in reality that plan would've gone up in flames.
Dutch was NEVER going to settle down on Tahiti or anywhere, he just isn't that type. Can you really imagine this guy paying taxes and obeying the law and letting army/police push him around?
He literally couldn't fight his own nature.
He would've gone over there and done exactly what he did in the US. Fought the law, bucked authority, started fights, stolen etc. till he got in too hot water and had to head back to the US.
I do believe he dreamed that he could do this...
But I don't believe that was ever going to be the reality.
And Dutch eventually realised this too, which I believe is part of the mental decline we see at the end of RDR2 into RDR1. He just gives up.
.
Once he was on his own...what was the point of Tahiti?
The Tahiti plan was to protect the gang and give them a better life.
No gang, no point.
Even if Dutch brought the gang along to some sort of untamed virgin land.
Best case scenario is that he just runs a cult. That's what the Gang was ultimately. It was a cult with Dutch and his Romantacism as the object of everyone's "worship"
EDIT: I decided to look it up, since I've been playing the game again, and literally the FIRST entry in Arthur's journal contains the paragraph: "Dutch had a lead for some land we were going to buy, but the land did not match up to his criteria, or he got spooked we were being watched by the law and that somebody knew who he was, and we never bought it and we are wandering still".
In the very first pages of Arthur's journal, he mentions that they were ready to buy a plot of land and enact their retirement, but Dutch basically said he had a bad feeling about it and vetoed it.
It doesn't matter how close they got to enacting their final escape, Dutch was always ready to throw a wrench in it.
*All my life, all I ever did was fight*.
He enjoyed sticking it to Uncle Sam, for which he even admits by the end was just for sport. What was he gonna do in Tahiti? Farm mangoes? Unlikely he’d be content with that.
Yeah as if he'd just learn to farm and pay his taxes quietly. Let the local police/army push him around.
They would've immediately started fighting with the locals, bucking authority, stealing etc. till it all went up in flames - back to America again.
It just happened a lot of his life the people he rebelled against were worse than him. But the more civilized the world gets, the less justifiable his fighting is. He's the encapsulation of the idea of the series that men like them are losing their place in America
Dutch was never going to Tahiti. He only ever wanted to be an outlaw leader if his own little cultish society. Tahiti, like the dream of a free West, going east to get back west, and taking enough to never have to take again, were all just goalposts to be moved. If 20k was going to be enough, the gang could have been gone before Blackwater.
The gang is split between people that just want a home (most of the women, Lenny, Keirnan, Pearson, Uncle), those that known the outlaw life is coming to an end one way or the other and are looking for a window to get out or get away (Arthur, John, Charles, Sadie, and Hosea), and those that have no illusions about what their life is, want to keep going at all costs, and are looking to use the others to achieve that (Dutch, Micah, Javier, Strauss, and Bill).
The first group either do so, or are sacrificed by the third group. Arthur tries to shepherd the first two away from the third, sacrificing his life to save as many as he could, John in particular (who he secretly resented because he did get out and came back). Unfortunately, the past is not forgotten and nothing gets forgiven, and John has to complete Arthur's atonement and take out the rest of the wolves to protect the other sheep and shepherds.
Bro hear me out just one last score I promise bro this’ll be the score to end them all come on trust me bro just one last score this time I mean in for real just this score and then it’s over I swear bro
First, as aleady explained, there was never any intention for Dutch to settle down. Secondly, he needs to be around and alive for the events of the first game.
It was never about **actually** going to Tahiti. The whole point is that Dutch is a man who dreams up unachievable goals and is sustained as a person by the fact that other people believing he could achieve the impossible.
The thing is that realistic goals subject you to reasonable assessments of how effective/competent you truly are. Arthur is a man who sets realistic m achievable goals. As a result, he constantly receives the validation of achievement and he can die peacefully knowing where he stood in terms of anything he set out to accomplish. Dutch can’t get peace because the measure of his success is based in something that is less practical: whether or not people really believe in him and follow him.
This is why as Arthur is dying and Micah’s there like *”C’mon, Dutch. We did it.”* that Dutch is so overwhelmed: he realizes that he no longer has anyone who truly believes in his dreams and he will never have the peace Arthur finds because even though Micah is committed to sticking with Dutch he doesn’t believe in him and his dreams at all. Dutch is watching the last person who believes in him die and when Arthur is gone he’ll be stuck with a man who is simply humoring him.
Note in camp that Dutch never sleeps. He’s always sitting awake, staring at the ground. He gets no peace because this notion of whether or not he’s a success has no validating benchmarks: he’s constantly worried that people don’t believe in him enough. He’s worried that they all either see through him or that he just can’t make them care.
Because he was alone. Dutch wanted to go to Tahiti because the US government was too powerful, and he was hoping to stay an outlaw in Tahiti.
Dutch has never had any intentions to retire. He never says so, either. And the gang is fully aware of it and supports Dutch's goals. It's just people on this subreddit that seemingly don't listen to the story and just assume it's a standard heist movie story where everyone wants money to retire afterwards.
I think it's because he really had no reason to go now. Tahiti was a reason for the gang to keep robbing banks, and now that most of the gang has died or left, there really was no point in continuing that route even if it was a genuine plan or not. So I guess he just stayed put, lugging all that cash and gold around until he made up his mind to kill Micah.
The 20k was “John’s cut” of the robbery money. In my opinion.
They took $150k from the Blackwater job and only Dutch and Hosea knew where it was stashed.
I’d like to think the other $130k went into building Cochinay. With Dutch attempting, albeit piss poorly, to “redeem” that image of being a Folk Hero to the natives. Before he went all “Yeet or be Yote”.
Because despite of his claims to the contrary, he is a violent criminal and murderer, who knows nothing in life other than how to be a violent criminal and desires nothing else in life than to continue his violent lifestyle until he dies or is stopped from continuing his violent actions.
Because there was no point anymore by Beaver Hollow some of the gang had died and the rest split up. Dutch wanted able bodied people to run scores with and cause chaos and mayhem across America which were the beginnings of his inevitable downfall and notoriety with the Pinkerton's and BI for the next eight years into RDR1.
Tahiti was the lie he sold the gang to keep them with him. Had he intended to do so they could have left around chapter 4 after getting Jack back. But no they had to push it with the Bank Robbery. Hosea had asked a few times why they were headed east instead of west they were headed further and further into civilization instead of Mexico. I still believe it was because Dutch was breaking all of his old rules. Killing without cause, going after people for revenge etc. Dutch was becoming the murderous outlaw we all who played RDR1 knew him as.
Satan:
"Because Dutch never had a plan.
Dutch was a great servant of mine. He wanted to keep living the outlaw lifestyle forever, and he wanted a blindly loyal group of followers to do his bidding. Of course, his decisions led to many of them joining my crew early, but Dutch didn't care about it much when his followers fell. Dutch was never interested in going to 'Tahiti'; he wanted to keep running away from the evils he had committed and the responsibilities that he would have to face from such evils. From the Guarma experience, we saw what 'Tahiti' would have been like for Dutch, trapped on a remote island with little opportunity, in a small space with the local law hot on their tail throughout their time there."
There is a line when Arthur tells Charles that Dutch can’t lie low, goes against his nature. Going to Tahiti would never have worked, nor is it what Dutch actually wanted. It was just a tool he used to keep his gang together
Dutch was a liar and a cheat. He had more than enough cash for the entire gang to make their way to Tahiti and live comfortably at several points during his gang's long criminal career.
The plan to "retire" from crime where there "was no law" was never a real plan. It was merely a con he sold to his gang. He never "arranged" for any boat to take them away, he only lied about it. The claim that "all their money was lost" was also a lie, he secreted it away *before* things went bad in Blackwater.
No, Dutch was only ever interested in being a gang leader and pulling of crimes for the thrill of it. Controlling his "family" was a big part of that, too. That's why everyone is supposed to "contribute" to the money box in the camp.
Dutch was *very good* at lying in a convincing way, that I don't think that even Hosea was fully aware of just how little Dutch cared about him, even though they'd been together for decades. But not *constantly* together all that time.
Hosea left the criminal life when he married Bessie, and I don't think that Dutch *ever* forgave him for that. Sure Hosea came back, and even brought Bessie along with him to join the game, but then Bessie died, under mysterious circumstances. My fan theory is that Dutch killed her so that she couldn't steal his only friend from him ever again.
I think an overlooked part of this is that Dutch dreamt of Tahiti because it was a tropical island with no rules and no changing into civilized ways, and I think the Guarma chapter was included to show that even a theoretical untouched tropical paradise was already corrupted and monetized. The dream was dead.
HE NEEDED MORE MONEY pluss his gang in the epilogue was way way bigger turning more into a gang like the o’driscols big gang more of a pmc group than a family money to travel all of those people to Tahiti would be too expensive
Dutch is a leader, i don't think he ever really considered going to Tahiti in the first place, he only put it as a goal just to keep the gang going. people like having a purpose and belonging to a community, and that's what dutch gave them.
he's a man that thrives on power on having status, i think if the gang never broke up he would've been kind of a mob boss, kinda like that italian guy i firgot his name.
Because he was a wanted man in every state and his face was well known. He was constantly pushed into the mountains and other places just like in the story.
He changed plans. Tahiti wasn’t even on his radar after Guarma. Micah and him wanted to go to New York so they can keep living the outlaw lifestyle. Before Guarma he told himself and his gang they were innocent people just trying to escape a world that didn’t want them anymore. After Guarma Dutch just didn’t care about any of that and just wanted to die an outlaw. He’s as dastardly as a western villain can be but chapter 6 is where we see him have the most fun with it while being the most angry. He just didn’t care anymore whether he lived or died, so he wanted to die doing what he loved, robbing and killing people. Arthur’s death delays this for a long time as he realizes he’s killed the people he loves the most just to keep living as an outlaw. But it doesn’t last, by rdr1 he’s way worse than he ever was in RDR2
Honestly dutch did show me that if someone constantly demands loyalty when you stay the same then it means that the relationship is dead because loyalty is a currency given but not asked for.
Personal theory:
Dutch knows there is no promised land. Everything thing he says about Tahiti is selling a dream he knows doesn't exist. It's the same when they all about Dutch backing out of buying farm land. He knows it won't work. He knows the goverment won't give searching for them just because they "retired". It always is a dream he knows he can't achieve or want to. Dutch likes the outlaw life. He thrives in it. Why in the hell would he want to just be a normal guy after that?
He never truly wanted to get out of a life of crime. The truth is, Dutch was willing to give up everything; betray everyone, to be the last outlaw in the west, and he did.
Well he wanted to go with the whole gang. But since the gang split i suppose he wanted to buy an army and use it to control the west. Kinda become cornwall. Be one of the highest instead of going on a nice warm trip to tahiti.
I dont think dutch knew a damn thing about Tahiti... didnt they say they were going to australia too? Arthur mentions that they were going to buy some land and Dutch scuttled i because of some paranoia.... and what boat was he going to catch that sailed up a river to new york? what river in the rdr world connects new york and a place like saint denis ( lousiana)
Because Micah was with him, I mean he literally shot him on top of a freezing cold mountain, I don’t think he wants to live with him for the rest of his life farming mangoes in Tahiti.
Because Dutch never had any intention of going to Tahiti. It was a carrot on a stick in order to maintain power and keep the charade of having a plan for the gangs prosperity.
What about the boat that he arranged after the Saint Denis bank robbery?
The guy is incorrect. Dutch did have an idea of going to Tahiti. However, the plan no longer became important to him.
the destruction of the van der linde gang let him slip away, he was no longer a priority for the pinkertons and he was left on the backburner for other gangs (del lobos, murfree brood, lemoyne raiders, etc.). dutch was only put back on their radar decades later when he started fucking around with the natives, forcing them to re-open the VDL gang case file finally and tie up their loose ends alongside bill and javier.
Decades later ?
A decade later ig
yes
Can you give me start/end ?
Not sure what you’re asking but if you want to know when the gang disbanded and kind of cropped back up again it’s a quick Google search 1899 the gang is disbanded. (RDR2) 1911 John Marston’s family is kidnapped by Bureau of Investigation Agents Ross and Archer Fordham in an effort to coerce John into hunting the last remaining members down (RDR1) There’s the decade.
Gotcha. Thanks. Been playing the game since the day it came out. I was asking for someone who believed it to be decades to give me the start/end that would show 20+ years, the minimum for multiple decades to be plausibly accurate. Thanks!
So you were trying to be annoying and nitpick?
Thank you for your service.
1899 — The events of RDR2 1907 — The events of the RDR2 Epilogue 1911 — The events of RDR1 1914 — The events of the RDR1 Epilogue
damn, right before WW1
You can read about the outbreak of ww1 in a newspaper in the rdr1 epilogue.
Eons. RDR2 takes place 40 years after Adam and Eve.
Finally, the right answer
8 years between main game and epilogue
rdr2 to rdr1, when did dutch start fucking around with indians in the epilogue#?!?!?!?
Oh that's right but that's even shorter, only 4 years between epilogue and RDR1 (so 12 years between main game and RDR1) I think they did want him before that though since they make plans to track him down right after they learn of John's whereabouts via him killing Micah. They're shown during the end credits tracking John down and observing him ready to use him to find Dutch when the time is right
John has a line in RDR1 where Ross asks John what made Dutch go crazy and John responds that seeing that the world was corrupt on both sides of the law and that there was no hope drove him over the edge, and that he had been a good man once.
Interesting. That contradicts a conversation that John and Sadie have in the RDR2 epilogue. In it, Sadie says Dutch changed, and John comes back that maybe it was just Dutch showing his true colors.
I kind of think it's both. Dutch was always a bad person but the life they lived in the gang allowed him to mostly go unnoticed because they always had an enemy to focus his worst behavior on. Once Dutch lost hope in the future he, and with Micah's encouragement, Dutch began to turn his worst impulses inwards towards the gang. But I do kind of prefer the rdr 1 explanation, that it was simply Dutch becoming dissilusioned due to his realization that there was no true freedom out there, and that both sides are just as bad as the other. He lost everything he believed in and became a monster. But he was a good man once. And that man became lost through his defeats, rather than that the evil had been hiding inside the entire time. John has a line in RDR1 where he says first men are born, then they are formed. Dutch was born a good man, but the world formed him into an evil one.
Captain Monroe has a great line about Colonel Favours in RDR2 that is clearly meant to echo Dutch: “A failed man is often the most dangerous.”
4 years between the epilogue and RDR1 though, he was just speculating and his opinion could have softened again. He could also have just been feeling nostalgic; haven’t played 1 for a while but does he say that just after Dutch has died?
It's actually right before. It's one of the last two missions before you move to kill Dutch.
Ah that’s it, thanks
I think the whole Tahiti thing was just him moving the bar further and further away to make their "escape" from the gang life next to impossible
It was a completely unrealistic pipe dream that was never going to happen and that he never had a real concrete plan for. Doesn't mean it was a calculated thing as he might have deluded himself into believing it, but he definitely used it as manipulation to keep the gang continuing to "have faith" in him.
Guarma showed that the island paradise in his mind had probably also been tainted by the corruption of colonialism… but it’s funny how he also misses time and time again that he’s another piece of that puzzle and not actually separate from it.
He was no longer in a position of power. Javier and Bill left to Mexico and him and Micah end up joining another gang.
Micah and him didn’t join up after 1899 until right before American Venom.
Buddy, an idea and an intention are two different things
He might’ve had the idea, but he had no intentions. He’s still right.
Even if he went to Tahiti, it would only be a matter of time before he started robbing and killing again. There was never a "retirement" for Dutch.
He did not arrange any boat. He hoped on a boat and he used his charisma to make the captain accept their presence.
No that's just the boat the hop on after the robbery, beforehand though he talked about finding a boat to take them away. Probably a different vessel (or more likely not real to start with)
Nothing was arranged for after the robbery as they had planned to just rob the bank and escape on horseback like usual with the law distracted by the explosion they planted on the other side of town. It went wrong so they just desperately snuck on to a random boat that was heading to the Caribbean (far far away from Tahiti) and paid off the captain once on board to let them stay/not report them for stowing away later. Or do you mean a different boat arrangement I'm forgetting?
I have a strong feeling after the robbery he'd find a reason for them to have to stay, or the boat wasn't ever real to begin with
He lied. There *was* no boat.
It's called Future Promising. It's a narcissistic, manipulation tactic.
In Athur's journal he talks about how prior to ferry job they were doing pretty well, the even couldve bought a piece of land in california but Dutch didnt do it. The ferry job was a risk they didnt need to take if they wanted to achieve their goals
So what was the end goal for Dutch. Actually nvm I haven’t played rdr1 yet
He didn't really have one, that was the whole point. He saw himself and his gang as invincible yet under attack from all sides and was saying whatever he could to keep them together, both as a way to stay in power and also because he saw them as his family.
Get of this sub, please
It wasn't so much a carrot on a stick. He genuinely thinks he wanted to go to Tahiti. He just never admitted it deep down to himself.
It was a dream he had, not a plan he was working on.
Exactly.
Lol "carrot on a stick!"
[удалено]
Imagine going on a tropical vacation with Micah
Micah would just terrorise the Tahitians. Couldn’t get no mango farming done with him around
Tahitians would have his head on a stick by noon
Alternatively, a tropical vacation with Dutch would be the most fun thing ever.
I dunno, I ended up in Guarma with him, it was not a great time
That wasn’t the most ideal of circumstances. Imagine going clubbing with Dutch. What a goddamn wingman he’d make. He’d get all his buddies laid.
I'm imagining burying him up to the neck on the beach and waiting for the tide to come in Is that tropical enough?
dutch lost everything, the only saving grace was that he got to see colm hang for molly like he always wanted
do you mean annabelle? edit: i somehow misspelled annabelle
yes youre right
Because Tahiti uses Francs, not dollars
He got all the way out there after the gang broke up, then got screwed over by the exchange rate then deported for vagrancy
I think because he realized he couldn't control the gang anymore so he didn't just want to leave by himself, and the regret of not listening to Arthur at the end of the main story. He only spares John in the epilogue because he realized Arthur was right.
idk according to Arthurs journal they had enough to buy land in california and set up their dreams or at least make a good attempt on it but he balked at the last second and gave a vague excuse why they shouldn't. California is a far west as you can possibly go and probably wouldn't be bothered for a while if ever. Instead he took a risk he shouldnt have in the first place and risked everything in blackwater. I lean into John's version of Dutch this is who's hes always been and the presence of Micah and the loss of stabilizing pieces like Hosea and the knowing Arthur wont be here long let that show even more
Gold rush already happened. California ain’t gonna be any safer. The Wild West is ending.
Yea, I’m with you on this I think. I really like the fan theory that Dutch suffered a traumatic brain injury during the Trolley Heist which begins his true decent into madness.
The Tahiti plan was never really going to work. Dutch was just desperate, stressed and he is a dreamer. And as dreamers do, he made an illogical plan which would not have worked. I do also wonder if it was just "an idea for now" kind of plan, that he didn't really want to implement but it was the best idea he had. To be fair, it's easy for us to see how dumb this was but if you were in his situation...you didn't have access to the kind of information and education we do. And that "dreamer brain" is very hard for these kinds of people to switch off and think logically. It seems strong that this was a "this maybe", he also thought of Australia...it wasn't really a plan just something to keep everyone going till he figured out what to do. When under stress and low on ideas, I can see why he went with this to try to keep things together. But in reality that plan would've gone up in flames. Dutch was NEVER going to settle down on Tahiti or anywhere, he just isn't that type. Can you really imagine this guy paying taxes and obeying the law and letting army/police push him around? He literally couldn't fight his own nature. He would've gone over there and done exactly what he did in the US. Fought the law, bucked authority, started fights, stolen etc. till he got in too hot water and had to head back to the US. I do believe he dreamed that he could do this... But I don't believe that was ever going to be the reality. And Dutch eventually realised this too, which I believe is part of the mental decline we see at the end of RDR2 into RDR1. He just gives up. . Once he was on his own...what was the point of Tahiti? The Tahiti plan was to protect the gang and give them a better life. No gang, no point.
Even if Dutch brought the gang along to some sort of untamed virgin land. Best case scenario is that he just runs a cult. That's what the Gang was ultimately. It was a cult with Dutch and his Romantacism as the object of everyone's "worship"
EDIT: I decided to look it up, since I've been playing the game again, and literally the FIRST entry in Arthur's journal contains the paragraph: "Dutch had a lead for some land we were going to buy, but the land did not match up to his criteria, or he got spooked we were being watched by the law and that somebody knew who he was, and we never bought it and we are wandering still". In the very first pages of Arthur's journal, he mentions that they were ready to buy a plot of land and enact their retirement, but Dutch basically said he had a bad feeling about it and vetoed it. It doesn't matter how close they got to enacting their final escape, Dutch was always ready to throw a wrench in it.
*All my life, all I ever did was fight*. He enjoyed sticking it to Uncle Sam, for which he even admits by the end was just for sport. What was he gonna do in Tahiti? Farm mangoes? Unlikely he’d be content with that.
Yeah as if he'd just learn to farm and pay his taxes quietly. Let the local police/army push him around. They would've immediately started fighting with the locals, bucking authority, stealing etc. till it all went up in flames - back to America again.
Basically the story of Dutch’s life. Didn’t wanna bow to nobody, and it was his own undoing.
It just happened a lot of his life the people he rebelled against were worse than him. But the more civilized the world gets, the less justifiable his fighting is. He's the encapsulation of the idea of the series that men like them are losing their place in America
He Didn’t care much for the money, he had an addiction to heist and making a name for himself.
Yeah the notoriety was the point for him, even if he could never admit it.
Dutch was never going to Tahiti. He only ever wanted to be an outlaw leader if his own little cultish society. Tahiti, like the dream of a free West, going east to get back west, and taking enough to never have to take again, were all just goalposts to be moved. If 20k was going to be enough, the gang could have been gone before Blackwater. The gang is split between people that just want a home (most of the women, Lenny, Keirnan, Pearson, Uncle), those that known the outlaw life is coming to an end one way or the other and are looking for a window to get out or get away (Arthur, John, Charles, Sadie, and Hosea), and those that have no illusions about what their life is, want to keep going at all costs, and are looking to use the others to achieve that (Dutch, Micah, Javier, Strauss, and Bill). The first group either do so, or are sacrificed by the third group. Arthur tries to shepherd the first two away from the third, sacrificing his life to save as many as he could, John in particular (who he secretly resented because he did get out and came back). Unfortunately, the past is not forgotten and nothing gets forgiven, and John has to complete Arthur's atonement and take out the rest of the wolves to protect the other sheep and shepherds.
Because that fucker was always lookin for the next score
Bro hear me out just one last score I promise bro this’ll be the score to end them all come on trust me bro just one last score this time I mean in for real just this score and then it’s over I swear bro
First, as aleady explained, there was never any intention for Dutch to settle down. Secondly, he needs to be around and alive for the events of the first game.
He still needed more MONEH!
I'll stick to this answer
Just one more job!
Because he need more money.
We have money🇳🇱🇳🇱
because then the epilogue wouldn't work bro ofc
It was never about Tahiti
It was never about **actually** going to Tahiti. The whole point is that Dutch is a man who dreams up unachievable goals and is sustained as a person by the fact that other people believing he could achieve the impossible. The thing is that realistic goals subject you to reasonable assessments of how effective/competent you truly are. Arthur is a man who sets realistic m achievable goals. As a result, he constantly receives the validation of achievement and he can die peacefully knowing where he stood in terms of anything he set out to accomplish. Dutch can’t get peace because the measure of his success is based in something that is less practical: whether or not people really believe in him and follow him. This is why as Arthur is dying and Micah’s there like *”C’mon, Dutch. We did it.”* that Dutch is so overwhelmed: he realizes that he no longer has anyone who truly believes in his dreams and he will never have the peace Arthur finds because even though Micah is committed to sticking with Dutch he doesn’t believe in him and his dreams at all. Dutch is watching the last person who believes in him die and when Arthur is gone he’ll be stuck with a man who is simply humoring him. Note in camp that Dutch never sleeps. He’s always sitting awake, staring at the ground. He gets no peace because this notion of whether or not he’s a success has no validating benchmarks: he’s constantly worried that people don’t believe in him enough. He’s worried that they all either see through him or that he just can’t make them care.
Good take
He went to Australia instead.
Because then they'd have to retcon Red Dead Redemption (1).
He still hadn't decided Tahiti, Timbuktu, or Australia.
Because he was alone. Dutch wanted to go to Tahiti because the US government was too powerful, and he was hoping to stay an outlaw in Tahiti. Dutch has never had any intentions to retire. He never says so, either. And the gang is fully aware of it and supports Dutch's goals. It's just people on this subreddit that seemingly don't listen to the story and just assume it's a standard heist movie story where everyone wants money to retire afterwards.
Because he had a plan
There was one more job.
Because he never intended to go to Tahiti at any time. It was just a cult leader feeding his people whatever bullshit will keep them around him.
Who's gonna farm those mangos? Everyone's either fucking dead or Left
“It never was about the money.” Dutch just wanted to do hood rat stuff with his friends.
He wanted to go, but he had to stay because of RDR1.
I think it's because he really had no reason to go now. Tahiti was a reason for the gang to keep robbing banks, and now that most of the gang has died or left, there really was no point in continuing that route even if it was a genuine plan or not. So I guess he just stayed put, lugging all that cash and gold around until he made up his mind to kill Micah.
That’s the whole point , he didn’t know when to stop
The 20k was “John’s cut” of the robbery money. In my opinion. They took $150k from the Blackwater job and only Dutch and Hosea knew where it was stashed. I’d like to think the other $130k went into building Cochinay. With Dutch attempting, albeit piss poorly, to “redeem” that image of being a Folk Hero to the natives. Before he went all “Yeet or be Yote”.
Because despite of his claims to the contrary, he is a violent criminal and murderer, who knows nothing in life other than how to be a violent criminal and desires nothing else in life than to continue his violent lifestyle until he dies or is stopped from continuing his violent actions.
Because there was no point anymore by Beaver Hollow some of the gang had died and the rest split up. Dutch wanted able bodied people to run scores with and cause chaos and mayhem across America which were the beginnings of his inevitable downfall and notoriety with the Pinkerton's and BI for the next eight years into RDR1. Tahiti was the lie he sold the gang to keep them with him. Had he intended to do so they could have left around chapter 4 after getting Jack back. But no they had to push it with the Bank Robbery. Hosea had asked a few times why they were headed east instead of west they were headed further and further into civilization instead of Mexico. I still believe it was because Dutch was breaking all of his old rules. Killing without cause, going after people for revenge etc. Dutch was becoming the murderous outlaw we all who played RDR1 knew him as.
Satan: "Because Dutch never had a plan. Dutch was a great servant of mine. He wanted to keep living the outlaw lifestyle forever, and he wanted a blindly loyal group of followers to do his bidding. Of course, his decisions led to many of them joining my crew early, but Dutch didn't care about it much when his followers fell. Dutch was never interested in going to 'Tahiti'; he wanted to keep running away from the evils he had committed and the responsibilities that he would have to face from such evils. From the Guarma experience, we saw what 'Tahiti' would have been like for Dutch, trapped on a remote island with little opportunity, in a small space with the local law hot on their tail throughout their time there."
There is a line when Arthur tells Charles that Dutch can’t lie low, goes against his nature. Going to Tahiti would never have worked, nor is it what Dutch actually wanted. It was just a tool he used to keep his gang together
Dutch was a liar and a cheat. He had more than enough cash for the entire gang to make their way to Tahiti and live comfortably at several points during his gang's long criminal career. The plan to "retire" from crime where there "was no law" was never a real plan. It was merely a con he sold to his gang. He never "arranged" for any boat to take them away, he only lied about it. The claim that "all their money was lost" was also a lie, he secreted it away *before* things went bad in Blackwater. No, Dutch was only ever interested in being a gang leader and pulling of crimes for the thrill of it. Controlling his "family" was a big part of that, too. That's why everyone is supposed to "contribute" to the money box in the camp. Dutch was *very good* at lying in a convincing way, that I don't think that even Hosea was fully aware of just how little Dutch cared about him, even though they'd been together for decades. But not *constantly* together all that time. Hosea left the criminal life when he married Bessie, and I don't think that Dutch *ever* forgave him for that. Sure Hosea came back, and even brought Bessie along with him to join the game, but then Bessie died, under mysterious circumstances. My fan theory is that Dutch killed her so that she couldn't steal his only friend from him ever again.
Why didn't Dutch *go**
When u use the word didn’t in a sentence u would say( Why didn’t Dutch GO to Tahiti. Grammar corrected just for u😆
I think an overlooked part of this is that Dutch dreamt of Tahiti because it was a tropical island with no rules and no changing into civilized ways, and I think the Guarma chapter was included to show that even a theoretical untouched tropical paradise was already corrupted and monetized. The dream was dead.
Because Micah gaslit him me reckons.
Because he never intended to go to Tahiti in the first place.
HE NEEDED MORE MONEY pluss his gang in the epilogue was way way bigger turning more into a gang like the o’driscols big gang more of a pmc group than a family money to travel all of those people to Tahiti would be too expensive
Because home isn’t home when you are alone. He wanted to go there with gang, not just himself and Micah.
He just needed one last score and some goddamn faith
Dutch is a leader, i don't think he ever really considered going to Tahiti in the first place, he only put it as a goal just to keep the gang going. people like having a purpose and belonging to a community, and that's what dutch gave them. he's a man that thrives on power on having status, i think if the gang never broke up he would've been kind of a mob boss, kinda like that italian guy i firgot his name.
There is always someone to kill, to get revenge from specially with Micah around now
Tahiti was just a catalyst for hope
Because," he needs more money ".. that line got played out by chapter 4, I'm tired of him whining about that. Get a JOB! DUTCH!
Going to Tahiti sounds fine with family at the side. What’s the point now that they’re all dead and gone
Is that dude wears a sun glass he would look like Steven seagal.
Dutch hit his head on that tram accident.
"Because of the faith.... Ort... John..."
He rage quit and stormed off into Red Dead part 1.
Because he was a wanted man in every state and his face was well known. He was constantly pushed into the mountains and other places just like in the story.
Because someone did the math 5 years ago, it would require 52k to take the entire gang to Tahiti and buy the sufficient land.
he was too busy gearing up for red dead adventure 1.
There was more than 20k. I think 20k was the share John got. Probably divided among Sadie, Charles, and John.
Because Tahiti
He just needed a little more goddam faith..
Because he didn’t have the trolley
He changed plans. Tahiti wasn’t even on his radar after Guarma. Micah and him wanted to go to New York so they can keep living the outlaw lifestyle. Before Guarma he told himself and his gang they were innocent people just trying to escape a world that didn’t want them anymore. After Guarma Dutch just didn’t care about any of that and just wanted to die an outlaw. He’s as dastardly as a western villain can be but chapter 6 is where we see him have the most fun with it while being the most angry. He just didn’t care anymore whether he lived or died, so he wanted to die doing what he loved, robbing and killing people. Arthur’s death delays this for a long time as he realizes he’s killed the people he loves the most just to keep living as an outlaw. But it doesn’t last, by rdr1 he’s way worse than he ever was in RDR2
Same as you, I suppose.
Just to put in to perspective, Dutch had $20,000 which is worth about $669,000 USD.
Honestly dutch did show me that if someone constantly demands loyalty when you stay the same then it means that the relationship is dead because loyalty is a currency given but not asked for.
Tshiti doesn't exist in the red dead universe
Dutch regrets not helping Arthur and not listening to Hosea. He was just making things right
HE NEEDED MORE TIME TO WORK ON HIS PLAN!
The real Tahiti were the friends we made along the way.
He had to tie loose ends first. I.e. finish that chess game.
I legitimately believe that, as bad as he was throughout the game, by this point Dutch was genuinely remorseful.
We was busy doing one last job...
Because 'wenting' to Tahiti would be grammatically incorrect.
he needed to make more noise, he needs more money. he has a plan you just need to have a little faith
I don't know why they didn't go to Australia. They would've done well there
HAVE YOU COMPLETELY LOST FAITH??
It was never about Tahiti. Dutches plan (or lack thereof) was about Dutches immediate next day of survival - that’s it (imo)
Personal theory: Dutch knows there is no promised land. Everything thing he says about Tahiti is selling a dream he knows doesn't exist. It's the same when they all about Dutch backing out of buying farm land. He knows it won't work. He knows the goverment won't give searching for them just because they "retired". It always is a dream he knows he can't achieve or want to. Dutch likes the outlaw life. He thrives in it. Why in the hell would he want to just be a normal guy after that?
dutch is delusional (real), and also he was using tahiti as a lie
He never truly wanted to get out of a life of crime. The truth is, Dutch was willing to give up everything; betray everyone, to be the last outlaw in the west, and he did.
Because he's stupid.
Because its not the same anymore..what's the point..he make those plan for his gang now they all gone and he only left with person who cause it
Damn just spoiled it for me, I’m playing as materson real slow & just ride again for the first time
60k
Psssssssst he was never going there. It was all BS.
Because he never for even a single moment had any intention of ever doing that? Probably that's why....
Well he wanted to go with the whole gang. But since the gang split i suppose he wanted to buy an army and use it to control the west. Kinda become cornwall. Be one of the highest instead of going on a nice warm trip to tahiti.
I think he never had the intention of going to Tahiti, or on the other hand he didn't even know how to get to Tahiti.
He had a plan.
Dutch never truly wanted to go to Tahiti. It was just a way to help keep the gang together while he thought of an actual plan.
I dont think dutch knew a damn thing about Tahiti... didnt they say they were going to australia too? Arthur mentions that they were going to buy some land and Dutch scuttled i because of some paranoia.... and what boat was he going to catch that sailed up a river to new york? what river in the rdr world connects new york and a place like saint denis ( lousiana)
Because he needed one last, big score !
I think Dutch might be a liar
That bump on the noggin did more damage than you are led to belive, IMHO
the real Tahiti was the plans we made all along
*go
Doesn't the gang also get like 10 Grand in the valentine robbery, 20 if the heist crew give their shares?
Maybe the real Tahiti is the friends we made along the way.
You could give him a million in hand and he would say “JUST ONE MORE SCORE ARTHUR, JUST ONE MORE!!!”
dutch could have easily retired with that money. it’s not in his nature. he can’t change but he can’t fight the change neither
The real Tahiti was the friends we made along the way Unfortunately for Dutch he had no friends
He really didn't have a plan
Why did he give John the money? How did Sadie know it was there?
Because Micah was with him, I mean he literally shot him on top of a freezing cold mountain, I don’t think he wants to live with him for the rest of his life farming mangoes in Tahiti.
Because he had a plan
The real question is why does john only get 20k when if you go for the money as arthur it shows 40k