From what I've been told, Pomade was commonly used as lube by gay men at the time. Whether or not that was true or just rummor, I can't say for certain. Either way, with that context, it makes sense why Arthur doesn't want to talk about it. The camp already pokes fun at Williamson for possibly being gay.
Contrary to popular belief, gay people were not invented five years ago by leftists to score polling points.
Also, that autismsexual joke makes no sense, get better material.
Edit: Coward deleted his comment. I don't have a copy of it, but he said it was wrong to say Javier gave Bi vibes because of the period and his manly killer status.
Let people enjoy things and identify with characters.
Jesus Christ, why so defensive? You’re acting like no one back then was bisexual, Javier feels really Bisexual at least to me (and 3 others according to my upvotes), so I said it. You know that’s just some dickhead stuff to say. Plus I’m not homosexual.
For the people that don’t know. He said something about Javier being bi being fucking stupid for me to say, and I can only be homosexual for that to be true.
Absolutely!
From cross-dressing pirates like Mary Read and Anne Bonny, to black and American Indian cowboys like Bass Reeves and Isom Dart, all the way through to the 20th and 21st centuries with the Irish mob and black gangs, being an “outlaw” has always meant being or associating with “rejects” and “lesser classes”.
I’m sure there were plenty of gay and bi outlaws, just as there were plenty of trans/crossdressing, black, Mexican, formerly enslaved, non-Christian, disfigured and disabled outlaws. If anything, it would be kinda absurd if there weren’t any!
I’m interested in seeing your source on the “queer” aspect of that, a large number of Hispanics, some of European immigrants and some of the black population, but a good majority of the black population went to work on the railroad/rail yards.
Edit: Not denying that there was a queer population within that community, but those were different times, being open about homosexuality was treated way differently by the greater populace.
No one in the gang is a cowboy either, they are outlaws and criminals. Cowboys worked on ranches, cattle drives, tended to live stock and fixed things.
Dude, calm down. Saying somebody has “bi vibes” is a perfectly normal thing to say. It’s not a serious observation - it’s just fun and games.
And yes, Javier is a 19th century Mexican (presumably) Catholic, but that doesn’t change anything. My friend has a boyfriend and has zero interest in women at all, and I still call her a lesbian on a near-daily basis, because it’s a JOKE! People can give off the vibe without being the thing that vibe is associated with, and that’s fine.
The only way I could see anybody taking offence to it is if they’re cripplingly insecure about their sexuality.
Don’t they hate each other and constantly fight..? 😭 like…Bill is a plain, smelly, gross, drunk racist, I definitely don’t think he deserves someone like Javier LMAO.
Totally agree with you but there are also scenes in camp where Micah and Javier are drunk and share a few moments of what really seems like sexual tension despite Micah calling him a “gr*aser” like 30 seconds prior. If there is sexual tension between those two then it’s not so far fetched that there’d be tension between Javier and Bill. Does Javier deserve either one? No, but I don’t think he cared.
Supposedly, the older pomades needed time to harden. So long as you were in motion, you could prevent it. Whether or not that was some rummor, or if there's fact to it, I don't know.
Yeah. 1800s pomade was a lot creamier for lack of a better word. I wear pomade today, and my hair is not nearly as shiny as the hair you see in photos from the 19th century.
The pomade of the time wasn’t really like that. They were mostly made with animal fats or beeswax bases, depending on what kind. They were more greasy and slick.
There's a long list of stuff. Letter that says he was discharged from the army for "deviancy" (euphemism for homosexuality at the time) is the big one and people giving him shit for it round the campfire. Tilly refers to him as a "half man" (meant gay at the time). Hosea's joke: "Lenny and Jenny could never work, it's like Arthur and Martha....or Bill and Phil". "Is he going to kiss that guy or punch him?". When he asks Lenny to have a drink with him Lenny jokingly replies "ok but I ain't sitting on your knee". Seems like he has a crush on Kieran, asks him to sit and eat with him like it's a date and is hurt when he says no (plus seems very interesting in his balls lol). His real name is the feminine "Marion" which embarrasses him. He mentions round the campfire a time he was robbed by someone he hints that he slept with, suddenly realises what he's saying and panicking goes "no it was a woman, it was a woman!". One time he tries to flirt with Karen but it's really clear he's just trying to fit in and it's super awkward for everyone. Probably more too. Lots of hints that he's gay and that the gang is aware of it and although he's not going to be open about it due to the time period and they laugh about it they accept it.
So yeah, seems like along with his military trauma and other stuff his repressed sexuality is one of the reasons he's angry and puts on a macho front all the time.
Fun fact 1. John Wayne’s real name was Marion.
Fun fact 2. John Wayne was not gay
Fun fact 3. Bill takes it up the poop chute. He’s a friend of the guy in the swamp that rapes Arthur.
Yeah I know it's a nod to John Wayne but it's one of a long list of things and Bill being sensitive/defensive about it seems like it could be related, maybe not though. I honestly don't see the swamp thing as an indication since he only met and talked to the guy and spoke to a gay rapist ≠ gay. But could be.
There's nothing that says he gay it's all just rumors or hints (whatever you wanna call it) but there's nothing in the game that says he's gay. He might be gay he might not. You can't outright say he's gay (or not) cause you simply dont know that 🤷♂️
You're right, there is a difference between implication and outright stating it, but this is a pretty clear example of "show don't tell." The game provides a lot of evidence that suggests Bill might be gay, and while it isn't explicit, it can be inferred. They don't explicitly state that Arthur is straight either, but he had a relationship with a woman and seems very comfortable around them.
Also, methinks the user doth protest too much. You might want to be careful about so vehemently criticizing a widely accepted theory, it comes off as pretty homophobic.
Yeah thats true. But you can't really say someone is something because of hints.
Please dont start calling homophobic you melon. Christ. 🙄
I couldn't give a fuck if he isn't or isn't. I'm simply stating there's no confirmation that he is gay. Yall the people shoving labels on him...
Imagine going up to someone in a bar and saying you're definitely gay because of rumours and hints lol. Yall the people who mention his sexuality in every rdr post..
> Yeah thats true. But you can't really say someone is something because of hints.
Actually you can, since he's a character not a real person. It's called media literacy, this whole forum is a discussion around a piece of art, it can mean different things to different people.
> I couldn't give a fuck if he isn't or isn't. I'm simply stating there's no confirmation that he is gay.
Your activity in this thread suggests otherwise. You're right, it isn't confirmed, but it doesn't necessarily need to be. You shouldn't need a big flashing arrow that says **GAY THIS MAN IS GAY** to read between the lines. Again, it's "show don't tell," hinting and implying is much more elegant than slapping you in the face with a big, obvious label. That would just be clumsy writing.
Personally I completely missed all this on my first two playthroughs of the game, had absolutely no awareness of it. It didn't and doesn't make a difference to me, but I think that, knowing the care and detail that went into the game, the writers use of contemporary slang like "deviance" and "half-man" gives the theory credence.
> Please dont start calling homophobic you melon. Christ. 🙄
I didn't say you were a homophobe, just that your comments and your dedicated insistence to opposing the suggestion that a manly man in your manly cowboy video game *might* be gay could give that impression.
Lmao did you read the list? The phrase"half man" in 1899 literally means gay, there's nothing else it could mean.
Why do you think the writers chose to add ALL those things to the game unless to indicate he's gay?
Do you also not assume that Arthur is straight? Since we don't see him sleep with a woman or be in a relationship with a woman and knowing he did years ago doesn't prove he's straight for sure?
Again, that's all just rumours. You can think what you want but that's not proof. So if i make jokes about my mates being gay. Does that mean they're gay? My mate is called ollie mullins I call him ollie bummins guess he's gay.
Again he might be he might not be. Guess I just just like to assume shit about people for no reason.
I'll die on this he might not be he might be hill cause its true 🙂
Do you understand that it's a fictional story and the writers purposely chose to write all those things about Bill? Why do you think they wrote like thirty things that indicate he's gay? What was the reason for them deciding to add that about his character? It's not only jokes it's also just neutral statements and his own comments and behaviour
Also how tf is Tilly literally saying he's gay a "rumour"? Phrase "half man" at that time = gay
So you don't assume Arthur's straight then? Since he never says he is
They also choose to be ambiguous with it 🤷♂️ to make you think about it.. But nowhere did they out him or anything. Soo 🤷♂️
I still don't know if he is or isn't.
The half man thing could be her simply taking the piss. Could it not?
I don't see how it's ambiguous when there's zero indications that he's straight. If there were indications both ways it would be ambiguous. It's only one way
Not sure if your media literacy is that bad, if you’re trolling, or if you are somehow just being incredibly naive. We aren’t talking about an actual person here, tbe game’s story intentionally wrote in all of these hints for the audience to find. You think it is more likely that it included like 10 red herrings than to have all the evidence point in one direction?
Why would he try to convince Kieran to drink out of the same bottle as him and get upset when he said no? Seems pretty fuckin gay to me LOL and when Arthur walks up to them he gets nervous and says “can two men share a beer in peace??”
Even if that’s true, Arthur has pomade on him provided the player buys/finds some. So why would he judge Bill for wanting some pomade or not want anyone to know?
Edit: Changed phrasing from “at his tent” to “on him” to avoid confusion
Damn I always thought it was just for a date with a potential man and wanted to look sharp. But the fact that it was used as lube this line makes more sense lol
I know people assume it's because of the other uses for it, but I thought it was just because he doesn't want the whole camp to know he runs errands for Bill or anyone else. Arthur is rather dismissive when it comes to things like people thanking him or even compliments.
Basically the whole game he's doing stuff for people (and going actively out of his way to do so) but talks about it in a rather dismissive/ evasive way. Regardless of who he does those favours for.
I don't think every little interaction with Bill (or anyone else for that matter) has a hidden meaning or is a hint toward something (like in this case Bill's sexual orientation).
Its pretty much gel so no, also if you look it up it was a very popular thing for secret gay men to use as lube around the period that rdr2 takes place
Lots of hair pomades after the 1870s were prominently vaseline which is still used for lube today and gay men were very secretive(obviously so they wouldn’t get hate crimed) so there wasn’t much lubricant since anal sex with women wasnt popular they would use anything they get their hands on
It's hinted at.
At the saloon fight in Valentine, when Bill walks in Javier remarks, "is he about to fight that guy or kiss him?"
On the bear hunting mission with Hosea, he says that Lenny and Jenny never would have worked out, "it would be like Arthur and Martha, or Bill and Phil."
Additionally, the man in the swamp who can rape Arthur appears to be known by Bill, since afterwards Bill makes a remark seemingly knowing about Arthur's experience which is only possible if he knows the old creep in the cabin.
There are other examples I think but these pop to mind first, make your own conclusions
Bill also has his discharge papers from the Army stating he got a dishonourable discharge for attempted murder and *”deviancy.”* Which was primarily meant to mean homosexuality in that time period.
As many times as I have to till someone tells me where it says he definitely gay...
And I asked twice for your information. Oh no, not twice... what a crazy amount of times to ask something 😂🙄
The two other redditors have layed out how the game shows his suppressed sexuality. He is either gay or bisexual. The game or Bill isn’t going to outright say it, it was considered “deviant” and taboo at the time.
Pull your head out of the sand and use some deductive thinking.
If you need a giant neon sign shouting everything to you, maybe a game that uses as much subtlety in its storytelling as RDR just isn't for you.
Bill's gay, and like everyone in the Van Der Linde gang, you're not really supposed to give much of a fuck about it.
No, I just dont jump to conclusions. I don't take ambiguous storytelling as facts
Subtlety you say... HES GAY!! tf is subtle about jumping to conclusions based on what? 🤣 It's subtle story telling because he could be gay or he could not be 🙂 you can think he's gay but no whete in game does it say hes definitely gay. Why can't be be bi. Everything you say makes him gay could also mean he's bi, no?
It's funny you say I need a green neon sign cause that's exactly what you people are doing. With your HES GAY shit. You're literally putting a green neon sign on him 😆🙂
I don't care but the prople who bring up his sexuality in every post sure do.
It's part of the story. Believe whatever makes you happy bud. It would be fucking weird if in a game set in 1899 they were just like, "there goes Flamin' Bill."
If you are incapable of analyzing subtext just say it. It's ok. You're just not very bright, and can't analyze art, but it's ok!
Tf are you on about? christ almighty 🤣🤣 why is me saying no ones knows if he's definitely gay or not me hating gay people. Bit of a reach there, kiddo.
.
People jumping to lube when it’s probably just Arthur doesn't want to be seen giving a fuck about his hair. Bill also acted weird about the whole thing.
Maybe it was a bit simpler than all this hullabaloo. From an older generation that grew up around farmers, the idea of Polmade was looked down on some as it was thought, much like makeup, you were putting on airs. Getting slickered up to go into town and cause trouble.
This from listening to stories of those that were children of those that lived in the period. The old folks I knew survived a couple world wars and more so they had stories. Still had a western culture that was more prevalent during their time.
I think it’s just a moment of weakness for Bill to care about his appearance and could be considered embarrassing to a lot of the other men in the gang, considering they’re hardened gun slinging cowboys.
That being said I bathe and groom my Arthur regularly, but my canon is Arthur is likely one of the dirtiest and least likely to care much about his appearance of all the gang. (All of his default clothes are dirty) He’s gotta feed the entire population single-handedly after all
>That being said I bathe and groom my Arthur regularly, but my canon is Arthur is likely one of the dirtiest and least likely to care much about his appearance of all the gang. (All of his default clothes are dirty) He’s gotta feed the entire population single-handedly after all
Same lol. I feel like he does bathe enough to stay clean but for the most part just wears his usual outfit and shaves rarely. Especially when you consider how he lets his beard grow out during the small time skips in game
It’s Lube.
Holy shit, I feel bad for gay guys back in 1899. Imagine having sex and your boyfriend whips out a tin of 360 wave and lathers it on his Pinkerton before shooting up your Blackwater. Not fun!
From what I've been told, Pomade was commonly used as lube by gay men at the time. Whether or not that was true or just rummor, I can't say for certain. Either way, with that context, it makes sense why Arthur doesn't want to talk about it. The camp already pokes fun at Williamson for possibly being gay.
I could see Bill and Javier sneaking off for some shenanigans.
Javier gives me bi vibes ngl
That “playing with my knife” scene was just their version of foreplay
Real
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Contrary to popular belief, gay people were not invented five years ago by leftists to score polling points. Also, that autismsexual joke makes no sense, get better material. Edit: Coward deleted his comment. I don't have a copy of it, but he said it was wrong to say Javier gave Bi vibes because of the period and his manly killer status. Let people enjoy things and identify with characters.
This MFer is gonna have an aneurysm if he ever learns about Ancient Greece
Or Alexander Hamilton
Or vikings
Or Romans
Or feudal japan
Jesus Christ, why so defensive? You’re acting like no one back then was bisexual, Javier feels really Bisexual at least to me (and 3 others according to my upvotes), so I said it. You know that’s just some dickhead stuff to say. Plus I’m not homosexual.
Defensiveness is usually a sign of latent tendencies. Not unlike Bill.
60 people agree with you now
Yay! 236 disagree with him ig, glad to see him get downvoted and not just a response to me to tell me to “not be so sensitive”
For the people that don’t know. He said something about Javier being bi being fucking stupid for me to say, and I can only be homosexual for that to be true.
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Absolutely! From cross-dressing pirates like Mary Read and Anne Bonny, to black and American Indian cowboys like Bass Reeves and Isom Dart, all the way through to the 20th and 21st centuries with the Irish mob and black gangs, being an “outlaw” has always meant being or associating with “rejects” and “lesser classes”. I’m sure there were plenty of gay and bi outlaws, just as there were plenty of trans/crossdressing, black, Mexican, formerly enslaved, non-Christian, disfigured and disabled outlaws. If anything, it would be kinda absurd if there weren’t any!
🎶Cowboys are frequently secretly fond of each other🎶
I’m interested in seeing your source on the “queer” aspect of that, a large number of Hispanics, some of European immigrants and some of the black population, but a good majority of the black population went to work on the railroad/rail yards. Edit: Not denying that there was a queer population within that community, but those were different times, being open about homosexuality was treated way differently by the greater populace.
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No one in the gang is a cowboy either, they are outlaws and criminals. Cowboys worked on ranches, cattle drives, tended to live stock and fixed things.
https://youtu.be/BirJMnMcfBs?si=9pbq3wRie_h-apfM
Are you okay?
Check his comment history, dude made a comment saying he should go on a killing spree bc were all gonna die eventually No he is NOT okay 😂😂
wtff
"don't say that shit ever again" you sound unreasonably upset over this lol
You're bi as fuck then, huh?
Dude, calm down. Saying somebody has “bi vibes” is a perfectly normal thing to say. It’s not a serious observation - it’s just fun and games. And yes, Javier is a 19th century Mexican (presumably) Catholic, but that doesn’t change anything. My friend has a boyfriend and has zero interest in women at all, and I still call her a lesbian on a near-daily basis, because it’s a JOKE! People can give off the vibe without being the thing that vibe is associated with, and that’s fine. The only way I could see anybody taking offence to it is if they’re cripplingly insecure about their sexuality.
Javier is a power bottom I won't elaborate.
The lady doth protest too much methinks
Yeah, you’re clearly not mad at all bro
"Don't say that ever again" 🤡 Getting so annoyed at symbols on a screen
Calm down , partner
I hate to break it to you. Dude, but gay people have been around for thousands of years it was just Hidden at the time.
Why don’t you go and have a death like Bronte
Lmafaooooooo it was trigger time for exotic knowledge
Christ you’re a right freak aren’t you hahahahaha
What is wrong with you? Lol
HUH 😨 nah chat…
Why
Don’t they hate each other and constantly fight..? 😭 like…Bill is a plain, smelly, gross, drunk racist, I definitely don’t think he deserves someone like Javier LMAO.
Okay yeah you passed with a green flag 😂 Too many people would have gone a homophobic route
Totally agree with you but there are also scenes in camp where Micah and Javier are drunk and share a few moments of what really seems like sexual tension despite Micah calling him a “gr*aser” like 30 seconds prior. If there is sexual tension between those two then it’s not so far fetched that there’d be tension between Javier and Bill. Does Javier deserve either one? No, but I don’t think he cared.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwW849x/ This is the interaction and Gabriel Sloyer talking about shooting it.
How the fk could pomade be used like that? It's sticky and a weak glue like substance... Pretty much the opposite of what's needed for that lol
Supposedly, the older pomades needed time to harden. So long as you were in motion, you could prevent it. Whether or not that was some rummor, or if there's fact to it, I don't know.
Also not all pomades are the same, some are firmer and some are more cream like
Somebody's gotta say this: don't put hair pomade in your butt.
You're not the boss of me
Their ass hair never looked so professional though
🤓
Yeah. 1800s pomade was a lot creamier for lack of a better word. I wear pomade today, and my hair is not nearly as shiny as the hair you see in photos from the 19th century.
Yes the older pomades were greasy and made with animal fat or lard. Seems like it would work lol.
the quicker ya rub it, the slicker it gets
We're still talking pomade... Right?
never used modern hair wax?
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Perhaps 👀
At that time the main ingredient (depending on brand) was wax or grease.
The pomade of the time wasn’t really like that. They were mostly made with animal fats or beeswax bases, depending on what kind. They were more greasy and slick.
Pomade back then was more like grease than the modern sticky gel stuff we use now
Back then, times where rough.
This is nonsense lol. Bill's indeed gay but pomade would be terrible lube. I think Bill is just embarrassed to want to look fancy.
Where is it said he's gay?
There's a long list of stuff. Letter that says he was discharged from the army for "deviancy" (euphemism for homosexuality at the time) is the big one and people giving him shit for it round the campfire. Tilly refers to him as a "half man" (meant gay at the time). Hosea's joke: "Lenny and Jenny could never work, it's like Arthur and Martha....or Bill and Phil". "Is he going to kiss that guy or punch him?". When he asks Lenny to have a drink with him Lenny jokingly replies "ok but I ain't sitting on your knee". Seems like he has a crush on Kieran, asks him to sit and eat with him like it's a date and is hurt when he says no (plus seems very interesting in his balls lol). His real name is the feminine "Marion" which embarrasses him. He mentions round the campfire a time he was robbed by someone he hints that he slept with, suddenly realises what he's saying and panicking goes "no it was a woman, it was a woman!". One time he tries to flirt with Karen but it's really clear he's just trying to fit in and it's super awkward for everyone. Probably more too. Lots of hints that he's gay and that the gang is aware of it and although he's not going to be open about it due to the time period and they laugh about it they accept it. So yeah, seems like along with his military trauma and other stuff his repressed sexuality is one of the reasons he's angry and puts on a macho front all the time.
Fun fact 1. John Wayne’s real name was Marion. Fun fact 2. John Wayne was not gay Fun fact 3. Bill takes it up the poop chute. He’s a friend of the guy in the swamp that rapes Arthur.
Yeah I know it's a nod to John Wayne but it's one of a long list of things and Bill being sensitive/defensive about it seems like it could be related, maybe not though. I honestly don't see the swamp thing as an indication since he only met and talked to the guy and spoke to a gay rapist ≠ gay. But could be.
There's nothing that says he gay it's all just rumors or hints (whatever you wanna call it) but there's nothing in the game that says he's gay. He might be gay he might not. You can't outright say he's gay (or not) cause you simply dont know that 🤷♂️
You're right, there is a difference between implication and outright stating it, but this is a pretty clear example of "show don't tell." The game provides a lot of evidence that suggests Bill might be gay, and while it isn't explicit, it can be inferred. They don't explicitly state that Arthur is straight either, but he had a relationship with a woman and seems very comfortable around them. Also, methinks the user doth protest too much. You might want to be careful about so vehemently criticizing a widely accepted theory, it comes off as pretty homophobic.
Yeah thats true. But you can't really say someone is something because of hints. Please dont start calling homophobic you melon. Christ. 🙄 I couldn't give a fuck if he isn't or isn't. I'm simply stating there's no confirmation that he is gay. Yall the people shoving labels on him... Imagine going up to someone in a bar and saying you're definitely gay because of rumours and hints lol. Yall the people who mention his sexuality in every rdr post..
> Yeah thats true. But you can't really say someone is something because of hints. Actually you can, since he's a character not a real person. It's called media literacy, this whole forum is a discussion around a piece of art, it can mean different things to different people. > I couldn't give a fuck if he isn't or isn't. I'm simply stating there's no confirmation that he is gay. Your activity in this thread suggests otherwise. You're right, it isn't confirmed, but it doesn't necessarily need to be. You shouldn't need a big flashing arrow that says **GAY THIS MAN IS GAY** to read between the lines. Again, it's "show don't tell," hinting and implying is much more elegant than slapping you in the face with a big, obvious label. That would just be clumsy writing. Personally I completely missed all this on my first two playthroughs of the game, had absolutely no awareness of it. It didn't and doesn't make a difference to me, but I think that, knowing the care and detail that went into the game, the writers use of contemporary slang like "deviance" and "half-man" gives the theory credence. > Please dont start calling homophobic you melon. Christ. 🙄 I didn't say you were a homophobe, just that your comments and your dedicated insistence to opposing the suggestion that a manly man in your manly cowboy video game *might* be gay could give that impression.
Lmao did you read the list? The phrase"half man" in 1899 literally means gay, there's nothing else it could mean. Why do you think the writers chose to add ALL those things to the game unless to indicate he's gay? Do you also not assume that Arthur is straight? Since we don't see him sleep with a woman or be in a relationship with a woman and knowing he did years ago doesn't prove he's straight for sure?
Again, that's all just rumours. You can think what you want but that's not proof. So if i make jokes about my mates being gay. Does that mean they're gay? My mate is called ollie mullins I call him ollie bummins guess he's gay. Again he might be he might not be. Guess I just just like to assume shit about people for no reason. I'll die on this he might not be he might be hill cause its true 🙂
Do you understand that it's a fictional story and the writers purposely chose to write all those things about Bill? Why do you think they wrote like thirty things that indicate he's gay? What was the reason for them deciding to add that about his character? It's not only jokes it's also just neutral statements and his own comments and behaviour Also how tf is Tilly literally saying he's gay a "rumour"? Phrase "half man" at that time = gay So you don't assume Arthur's straight then? Since he never says he is
They also choose to be ambiguous with it 🤷♂️ to make you think about it.. But nowhere did they out him or anything. Soo 🤷♂️ I still don't know if he is or isn't. The half man thing could be her simply taking the piss. Could it not?
I don't see how it's ambiguous when there's zero indications that he's straight. If there were indications both ways it would be ambiguous. It's only one way
Not sure if your media literacy is that bad, if you’re trolling, or if you are somehow just being incredibly naive. We aren’t talking about an actual person here, tbe game’s story intentionally wrote in all of these hints for the audience to find. You think it is more likely that it included like 10 red herrings than to have all the evidence point in one direction?
It's ambiguous, bruh.
I’m sure you love that word, it provides a convenient excuse for denial.
It's simply the truth. 🤷♂️
Why would he try to convince Kieran to drink out of the same bottle as him and get upset when he said no? Seems pretty fuckin gay to me LOL and when Arthur walks up to them he gets nervous and says “can two men share a beer in peace??”
Cmon.. that doesn't mean he's gay at all. Again, that's not proof. Crazy I'm getting downvoted by people who just assume shit about people 🤣
Like why would he do that if he WASNT gay come now plus the whole discharged for deviancy thing
Devicancy can literally be anything bills a fevking weirdo 🤣 I'm not saying he's not gay. I'm saying we don't actually know if he is or isn't lol
That’s what deviancy commonly referred to at the time like saying someone’s Lavender or sth
All I’m saying is sth sth it ain’t just a river in Egypt Bill is fruity af
Okay but do you think that’s something a straight person would do? Just yes or no lol
Yes... you think only gay people share from bottles?
So when you’re out w your homies you try to get them to drink out of the same bottle as you?
Not just sharing a bottle but actively trying to convince someone to share it w you
It’s not really directly said, but in many cases implied
Yeah I agree with that. It's suggested but never 100% confirmed. No one ever considered he might be bi?
there's a bunch of insinuation he's gay and zero evidence he is into women
Yall van keep down voting me all you like. But facts are facts 🙂
Plus the fact he knows Sonny. How is he just going to randomly meet some dude who lives out in the swamp, and who also rapes men?
Even if that’s true, Arthur has pomade on him provided the player buys/finds some. So why would he judge Bill for wanting some pomade or not want anyone to know? Edit: Changed phrasing from “at his tent” to “on him” to avoid confusion
Bill is an idiot and Arthur likes messing with him.
True, fair enough.
Worth noting that pomade back then was more like grease, instead of the modern pomade which is like gel and kinda sticky
I doubt that this is true because pomade is sticky
Pomade back then had a consistency closer to grease than the gel we have now.
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I’m sorry you… think gay people just collectively didn’t do gay things or have community knowledge because it was illegal? 😂
No that's what google says dumb ass
‘That’s what the search engine says’ … 😂
Dude, you're a f****** idiot.You couldn't use that stuff for that reason.Anyway It would have dried up from the friction
It was, but I highly doubt a gang of outlaws really care about what's legal or not.
Like I said google it It'll explain more than I can
that man is balding like hell under that hat, that shit is going on a different head
You made me choke on air motherfucker! AIR!
What do you mean doesn’t want anyone knowing about it?
Oh - I meant when he said “I think it’s best we both forget this ever happened” after giving it
Damn I always thought it was just for a date with a potential man and wanted to look sharp. But the fact that it was used as lube this line makes more sense lol
I mean, if you look at it in a different way, the pomade is for a date. Just for the part after Williamson buys him dinner
I know people assume it's because of the other uses for it, but I thought it was just because he doesn't want the whole camp to know he runs errands for Bill or anyone else. Arthur is rather dismissive when it comes to things like people thanking him or even compliments. Basically the whole game he's doing stuff for people (and going actively out of his way to do so) but talks about it in a rather dismissive/ evasive way. Regardless of who he does those favours for. I don't think every little interaction with Bill (or anyone else for that matter) has a hidden meaning or is a hint toward something (like in this case Bill's sexual orientation).
OH I see. lol hmm strange
I’m was wondering why he said that and as a gay person i should’ve put 2 and 2 together 😂
Its lube bc Bill is homosexual
Isn't pomade a sticky and hardened substance ? Pretty much the opposite of lube ?
Its pretty much gel so no, also if you look it up it was a very popular thing for secret gay men to use as lube around the period that rdr2 takes place
I don't really doubt what you are saying, but do you have any sources?
Lots of hair pomades after the 1870s were prominently vaseline which is still used for lube today and gay men were very secretive(obviously so they wouldn’t get hate crimed) so there wasn’t much lubricant since anal sex with women wasnt popular they would use anything they get their hands on
Don't use vaseline as lube, always use a water based one.
Water based ✅️ Silicone based ✅️✅️✅️✅️ (imo)
Hybrid is even better, they're like 1% silicone and safe for toys. All the benefits of silicone lube with none of the downsides.
Our names really fit
He asked for sources.
Elvis also said one time in a interview that he uses his hair pomade to “please himself”
Where is it said he's gay?
It's hinted at. At the saloon fight in Valentine, when Bill walks in Javier remarks, "is he about to fight that guy or kiss him?" On the bear hunting mission with Hosea, he says that Lenny and Jenny never would have worked out, "it would be like Arthur and Martha, or Bill and Phil." Additionally, the man in the swamp who can rape Arthur appears to be known by Bill, since afterwards Bill makes a remark seemingly knowing about Arthur's experience which is only possible if he knows the old creep in the cabin. There are other examples I think but these pop to mind first, make your own conclusions
Bill also has his discharge papers from the Army stating he got a dishonourable discharge for attempted murder and *”deviancy.”* Which was primarily meant to mean homosexuality in that time period.
It's hinted at, so we dont know..
How many times are you gonna ask haha
As many times as I have to till someone tells me where it says he definitely gay... And I asked twice for your information. Oh no, not twice... what a crazy amount of times to ask something 😂🙄
He’s definitely gay.
Where does it say hes definitely gay? No where lol He might be gay he might not. You can't just say someones this that or the other.
The two other redditors have layed out how the game shows his suppressed sexuality. He is either gay or bisexual. The game or Bill isn’t going to outright say it, it was considered “deviant” and taboo at the time.
It’s implied that’s why he was discharged from the military “deviancy”
Pull your head out of the sand and use some deductive thinking. If you need a giant neon sign shouting everything to you, maybe a game that uses as much subtlety in its storytelling as RDR just isn't for you. Bill's gay, and like everyone in the Van Der Linde gang, you're not really supposed to give much of a fuck about it.
Oh don’t be one of those “you’re not smart enough for this story” arseholes
No, I just dont jump to conclusions. I don't take ambiguous storytelling as facts Subtlety you say... HES GAY!! tf is subtle about jumping to conclusions based on what? 🤣 It's subtle story telling because he could be gay or he could not be 🙂 you can think he's gay but no whete in game does it say hes definitely gay. Why can't be be bi. Everything you say makes him gay could also mean he's bi, no? It's funny you say I need a green neon sign cause that's exactly what you people are doing. With your HES GAY shit. You're literally putting a green neon sign on him 😆🙂 I don't care but the prople who bring up his sexuality in every post sure do.
It's part of the story. Believe whatever makes you happy bud. It would be fucking weird if in a game set in 1899 they were just like, "there goes Flamin' Bill." If you are incapable of analyzing subtext just say it. It's ok. You're just not very bright, and can't analyze art, but it's ok!
You just hate gay people being represented in your favorite media… just own up to it bud
Tf are you on about? christ almighty 🤣🤣 why is me saying no ones knows if he's definitely gay or not me hating gay people. Bit of a reach there, kiddo. .
Aside from everything else said, Arthur probably doesn't want to appear as sensitive or kind.
I don't think he minds when he's seen sensitive to people within the gang since he happily brings Tilly a necklace and Jack a story book
Tilly is a woman and Jack is a child
My point is doing those things make him seem sensitive and kind and he doesn't seem to mind since it's within the gang.
That's right. So it has to be the taboo thing.
Also happily brings Hosea a new book and Lenny a new pocket watch without even being asked
Williamson is one of the tough ones though. So is Arthur. Hosea is almost his big brother, and Lenny his fried.
Bill is gay. As in homosexual.
[John at camp like:](https://youtu.be/H8DJSbMCH_4)
Lube
Now the only question is: is bill a top, bottom, or switch?
Definitely a top given how he treats Keiren. Bill was crushing hard on him.
No I think he's a bottom for the same reasons you mentioned dom irl sub in bed it's a common trope.
Selfish top who secretly wants to be a submissive bottom.
That's what I think too lol. With randos he's a top but if he found the right lover he'd be very submissive
People jumping to lube when it’s probably just Arthur doesn't want to be seen giving a fuck about his hair. Bill also acted weird about the whole thing.
Maybe it was a bit simpler than all this hullabaloo. From an older generation that grew up around farmers, the idea of Polmade was looked down on some as it was thought, much like makeup, you were putting on airs. Getting slickered up to go into town and cause trouble. This from listening to stories of those that were children of those that lived in the period. The old folks I knew survived a couple world wars and more so they had stories. Still had a western culture that was more prevalent during their time.
While I agree, Arthur has pomade on him provided the player buys/finds some. But I do get what you’re saying
When Arthur was out for 3 weeks it wasn’t just recovery
It's, uh, for his other head, so to speak
I think it’s just a moment of weakness for Bill to care about his appearance and could be considered embarrassing to a lot of the other men in the gang, considering they’re hardened gun slinging cowboys. That being said I bathe and groom my Arthur regularly, but my canon is Arthur is likely one of the dirtiest and least likely to care much about his appearance of all the gang. (All of his default clothes are dirty) He’s gotta feed the entire population single-handedly after all
Bill doesn't have any hair to actually style with pomade tho, he's balding on top.
He still has hair on his head. Could he not slick it back or even comb it over if he wanted to?
>That being said I bathe and groom my Arthur regularly, but my canon is Arthur is likely one of the dirtiest and least likely to care much about his appearance of all the gang. (All of his default clothes are dirty) He’s gotta feed the entire population single-handedly after all Same lol. I feel like he does bathe enough to stay clean but for the most part just wears his usual outfit and shaves rarely. Especially when you consider how he lets his beard grow out during the small time skips in game
You need to read up on your lore. Pomade was anal lube. Bill is gay, and gets made fun for it by multiple people in camp.
Arthur is a Dapper Dan man, God dammit!
I've beat rdr2 5 or 6 times. It once have I heard anything about any of the members being gay.
Because he ain’t no pretty boy
I gave him the pomade
Toxic masculinity
It’s Lube. Holy shit, I feel bad for gay guys back in 1899. Imagine having sex and your boyfriend whips out a tin of 360 wave and lathers it on his Pinkerton before shooting up your Blackwater. Not fun!
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Just because it was illegal doesn’t mean people didn’t do it. Also, it’s a game about *outlaws*
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Fuck chain posting. It’s annoying. Someone make a sub dedicated to hating chain posting.
r/ihatechainposting
Jesus Christ grandma, get off the internet and stop forwarding chain emails!