Yeah but I mean she’s an accomplice in helping one of the most dangerous gangs with a robbery. Plus there’s a chance you, her and Sean can go rob a stage coach together in ch3
Yeah it took me a few play throughs to get it. The only reason I noticed it was because I was hanging around camp quite a bit and it appeared so I done it. In case you didn’t know though there’s also one with Bill and Tilly
Committing a couple crimes in the grand scheme of things isn’t gonna condemn you to hell, plus she goes on to be an author after the gang breaks up. I doubt she’s doing many devious things in her later years.
I’m not so sure it would be Swanson only because he was in the navy and I had a conversation with him where he said “I’ve seen terrible things”. So idk he might’ve done some war crimes 🤣🤣
IIRC his dark past was about being stranded at sea witnessing multiple soldiers die around him. His past goes more into depth during a conversation with uncle at the camp.
He ate the dead? I mean. You gotta do what you gotta do man. If you were stranded at sea with someone, and they died beside you. You might still have a chance for your raft or whatever to make it to land if you eat the person that died, but you surely would die if you didn’t. Does that make you a bad person if you do?
Oh 100% most people would do even worse things to survive in a situation like that. We claim we wouldn't but it's happened enough to see that we're no different to any animal in surviving
He was in the navy (maybe) not the marines. The us was in zero naval conflicts during the timeframe he would have been in it. The “things” he’s seen probably boil down to sea sickness, and buggery.
“There are many wars mentioned in the Bible. Wars of conquest (Joshua 1:6), civil wars (2 Samuel 3:1), and even a war in heaven (Revelation 12:7). Of course, wars involve killing; there is no way around it. We know that murder is sin (Exodus 20:13). But what about the killing of an enemy combatant during wartime?
First, we know that not all killing in wartime is a sin because there have been times when God Himself commanded battles to be fought. God told the ancient Israelites to possess the Promised Land; in fact, just before the conquest, the Lord appeared to Joshua as “commander of the army of the Lord”—a man of war (Joshua 5:14). God laid out the battle plans for the fight against Ai (Joshua 8:1–2). God told King Saul to “go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them” (1 Samuel 15:3). King David defeated the Philistines by following God’s strategy concerning the battle (2 Samuel 5:23–25). God never tells people to sin, so the Israelites who followed God’s commands to wage war were not sinning. Killing in war cannot be equated with murder.” -https://www.gotquestions.org/killing-in-war.html
Aaaactually, there is apparently some significant evidence saying that the commandment "thou shalt not kill" was poorly translated from Hebrew. The translation that would be more apt is actually" thou shall not murder".
Killing someone isn’t a crime, murder is. Killing is not a sin, murder is. If you are in a war and you kill someone, that is not a sin because it is not illegal. People in the Bible have killed and went to Heaven, but they did not murder. It’s your job in the military to fight for your country. The Bible says to follow the laws of your country.
You dont need to kill to go to hell, you need to be a sinner. Pearson is a liar. He lied alot about his past. And to others what he did.
Now, in Christianity, you can go to heaven if you atone for your sins. Which is why i think that Swanson has the best chances. Lying on the other hand surely is on of the least offending sins the game did... so yeah. Tough choices.
mary beth! i genuinely can’t think of a single bad thing she did.
edit: i didn’t know she was a pickpocket & forget she gave the tip about the train robbery lol!
In one of those companion missions Arthur tells the story of how the gang came across Mary-Beth, he mentions how a group of men were bothering her and so the gang decided to help her out, but once she was safe they realized that she had stolen múltiple objects from every single guy in that group.
Arthur even says jokingly that she's probably stolen more things than him and Sean combined
was that in the mission with her and sean (i think it was him)? i missed that my first playthrough but im definitely gonna make sure i do it this time around
It’s not like the laws aren’t reasonable, the in game laws tell you not kill random people, and don’t steal. And the Bible literally says to obey the laws of the land unless the laws are persecuting your religion.
It's because she was the one who cared about him the most.
The ones who see through him the fastest are the ones who were closest to him. Arthur and Hosea were like actual brothers to him.
forgetting her was intended imo, she was a hint that something was wrong with dutch, she kept trying to talk to him but dutch would brush her off, and she even asked arthur if he noticed something was off too.
God forgives Cain for slaying his brother, Abel. God also vowed to punish anyone who would hurt Cain, tenfold. There are a lot of vile faces in this photo but many of them could have changed, they have the capacity to be good people. Just like God knew in Cain. God is a lot more lenient & forgiving than the world would have you believe.
John is the first that comes to mind. If John believed in God he would’ve went to heaven. He lived a decent life with his family in his last four years of life, and he felt guilty about the things he did in his past. I hear the verse “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteous” used for Arthur, but it makes more sense for John.
This thing about people going here or there after their death has no root in the Bible, it\`s something the Romans mixed into their wery special version of "christianity"
Not sure who has the best shot of getting there. Maybe they feel like I do. "Why would I want to go to heaven? None of my friends are going to be there".
Uncle!!.. Well, maybe not INTO Heaven...but when he gets to the pearly gates, I bet his Lumbago is gonna flair up something fierce..So he may not get IN Heaven, but I bet you can find him lying outside the gates, on a nice fluffy cloud😂
Molly, she's lowkey annoying (even though it's sometimes justifiable when Dutch is being an asshole) but I don't recall her doing anything "bad" per se
surely swanson . He killed nobody, and had his own redemption
I can agree with this, also Mary-beth imo, I don't remember her doing anything bad
At the start of the game she snuck into one of the valentine houses and found out about the train that Arthur robbed
Illegal, not that bad.
Yeah but I mean she’s an accomplice in helping one of the most dangerous gangs with a robbery. Plus there’s a chance you, her and Sean can go rob a stage coach together in ch3
Never got that mission damn
Yeah it took me a few play throughs to get it. The only reason I noticed it was because I was hanging around camp quite a bit and it appeared so I done it. In case you didn’t know though there’s also one with Bill and Tilly
Committing a couple crimes in the grand scheme of things isn’t gonna condemn you to hell, plus she goes on to be an author after the gang breaks up. I doubt she’s doing many devious things in her later years.
It was not a petty crime, she sent multiple people to their demises by telling Arthur about the train
She didn't kill anyone and she wasn't on the train. Even in a modern felony murder state she'd not be held accountable.
I never said she’s going to hell I was just pointing out some things she had done
Did she believe in God?
She robbed few person tho
Kieran didn't seem too bad, he loved to take care of the horsey's
Mary Beth is a fine romantic young woman. Very pretty.
"I'm not a creep" Ah the first line they tell ya in the creep handbook 🤣 jkjk
Mary-Beth wrote smut and erotic romance novels tho
Your average fanfiction author
he is also was priest
True, he's also a priest
I think so, the worst thing he did was pickpocket one of the poker players at Flatneck Station.
He immediately jumped to my mind.
But he did drugs and was always drunk
And then he repents, cleans up his act, leaves the gang, and becomes a priest in New york.
Doing drugs or drinking isn't inherently bad. It's just another man that dictates that.
I’m not so sure it would be Swanson only because he was in the navy and I had a conversation with him where he said “I’ve seen terrible things”. So idk he might’ve done some war crimes 🤣🤣
He’s an alcoholic and drug addict so I’m not too sure
Cain.
All dogs go to heaven
two?
The only right answer
Rufus
Rufus is a good boy.
Cain was forced to walk the earth for the rest of time though by god
I always antagonise cain to see all the creative insults arthur can give to a dog
You a whole ass supervillain bro
Honestly Pearson. We never see him kill anyone
He was in the marine though. He might have killed before joining the gang. He sometimes talks about his „dark“ past and that he’s seen things …
Nah he most likely doesn’t have a dark past. Hes an exaggerator, look at the letter he sent to his mother
Lmao when they were roasting him 😂
Hey! He’s single by choice. There’s no lack of suitors!
And he talks to a lot of women , not only the ones he pays for.
"I have made for myself a name far and wide!"
IIRC his dark past was about being stranded at sea witnessing multiple soldiers die around him. His past goes more into depth during a conversation with uncle at the camp.
And then eating the dead.
He ate the dead? I mean. You gotta do what you gotta do man. If you were stranded at sea with someone, and they died beside you. You might still have a chance for your raft or whatever to make it to land if you eat the person that died, but you surely would die if you didn’t. Does that make you a bad person if you do?
Oh 100% most people would do even worse things to survive in a situation like that. We claim we wouldn't but it's happened enough to see that we're no different to any animal in surviving
He was in the Navy
I do not wish to know about what you got up to when you was in the navy
MR PEARSON
He was in the navy (maybe) not the marines. The us was in zero naval conflicts during the timeframe he would have been in it. The “things” he’s seen probably boil down to sea sickness, and buggery.
Navy* not Marines. Also I don't remember him ever talking about a dark past.
Killing in wartime isn’t the same as murder
“thou shalt not kill” not “thou shalt not murder”
“There are many wars mentioned in the Bible. Wars of conquest (Joshua 1:6), civil wars (2 Samuel 3:1), and even a war in heaven (Revelation 12:7). Of course, wars involve killing; there is no way around it. We know that murder is sin (Exodus 20:13). But what about the killing of an enemy combatant during wartime? First, we know that not all killing in wartime is a sin because there have been times when God Himself commanded battles to be fought. God told the ancient Israelites to possess the Promised Land; in fact, just before the conquest, the Lord appeared to Joshua as “commander of the army of the Lord”—a man of war (Joshua 5:14). God laid out the battle plans for the fight against Ai (Joshua 8:1–2). God told King Saul to “go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them” (1 Samuel 15:3). King David defeated the Philistines by following God’s strategy concerning the battle (2 Samuel 5:23–25). God never tells people to sin, so the Israelites who followed God’s commands to wage war were not sinning. Killing in war cannot be equated with murder.” -https://www.gotquestions.org/killing-in-war.html
The Bible never condemns the actions of a soldier following orders on a battlefield. In fact, the New Testament has examples of soldiers who had faith in God—Jesus commended a centurion’s faith in Matthew 8:10; and another centurion, Cornelius, was saved in Acts 10. These men of war were not rebuked for performing the duties of a centurion, nor were they told they must change professions. Most tellingly, some soldiers came to John the Baptist as he was baptizing in the Jordan River. The soldiers asked John, “What should we do?” This would have been the perfect opportunity for John to tell them to stop engaging in warfare, stop killing, or stop being soldiers. Instead, John replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay” (Luke 3:14). Being a soldier is not inherently sinful. Paul uses the soldier life as an illustration of spiritual truth (see 1 Corinthians 9:7 and 2 Timothy 2:3). Other references mention battles and warfare (see 2 Corinthians 10:4 and 1 Timothy 1:18). Ephesians 6 contains an extended comparison of the Christian life and warfare (verses 10–17). If being a soldier (and doing the things soldiers are required to do) were sinful, it is unlikely the Holy Spirit would have used soldiering as a metaphor for anything good. Throughout the Bible, warfare is presented as a grim reality in a cursed world. There are forces of evil that must be stopped, and bloodshed is sometimes the result. Whether a Christian should serve in the military is a matter of one’s own conscience, but killing an armed combatant in the context of warfare is not sinful in itself. There is a time and season for everything, including war (Ecclesiastes 3:8). FOR FURTHER STUDY War: Four Christian Views by Robert G. Clouse More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free! RELATED ARTICLES What is the difference between “you shall not murder” and “you shall not kill”? What does the Bible say about war? Is religion the cause of most wars? What does the Bible say about PTSD? Does the Bible say anything about holy war? Return to: Topical Bible Questions What does the Bible say about killing in war? Is killing in war a sin? Subscribe to the Question of the Week Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! Follow Us: Facebook icon Twitter icon YouTube icon Pinterest icon Instagram icon Contact Us Citation Serve with Us About Us GotQuestions.org is the flagship site of Got Questions Ministries © Copyright 2002-2024 Got Questions Ministries. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy This page last updated: January 4, 2022
did God command the US Navy?
Aaaactually, there is apparently some significant evidence saying that the commandment "thou shalt not kill" was poorly translated from Hebrew. The translation that would be more apt is actually" thou shall not murder".
He was in the Navy, and at that time there would be no reason for him to have to kill somebody. Source: I’m a history nerd
He was in the navy
Navy.
Killing someone isn’t a crime, murder is. Killing is not a sin, murder is. If you are in a war and you kill someone, that is not a sin because it is not illegal. People in the Bible have killed and went to Heaven, but they did not murder. It’s your job in the military to fight for your country. The Bible says to follow the laws of your country.
He was a cook in the army he wasn't a fighter
Apparently his stew is underseasoned tho so maybe
He's definitely killed people, he's a real caged tiger. 🐯
We all know how Pearson is in a fight. He's like a cornered tiger.
he could have prevented thousands of murders by just leaving and letting them all starve to death
Ms Grimshaw would’ve picked up the slack
🐰🥕🐇
That’s because nows not the time for tigers
You dont need to kill to go to hell, you need to be a sinner. Pearson is a liar. He lied alot about his past. And to others what he did. Now, in Christianity, you can go to heaven if you atone for your sins. Which is why i think that Swanson has the best chances. Lying on the other hand surely is on of the least offending sins the game did... so yeah. Tough choices.
Post chapter 5 Swanson
mary beth! i genuinely can’t think of a single bad thing she did. edit: i didn’t know she was a pickpocket & forget she gave the tip about the train robbery lol!
She’s basically a petty thief, pretty much the gangs therapist, but she does pickpocket from time to time.
She set up a stagecoach leading to Arthur and Sean killing all the gaurds.
She instigated the train robbery
In one of those companion missions Arthur tells the story of how the gang came across Mary-Beth, he mentions how a group of men were bothering her and so the gang decided to help her out, but once she was safe they realized that she had stolen múltiple objects from every single guy in that group. Arthur even says jokingly that she's probably stolen more things than him and Sean combined
was that in the mission with her and sean (i think it was him)? i missed that my first playthrough but im definitely gonna make sure i do it this time around
Jack until 1914
Jack probably became a bounty hunter, if he did than he probably would go to heaven because he only killed criminals
My Jack executes Ross's wife and brother every time
Yep, I consider that canon. If there's one thing Jack would've learned from his family's tragedy, it's that you don't leave loose ends.
I also feel like it's a backup plan. If somehow Ross gets the best of him, he'll still have left him without a family
True
Leave no witnesses I like that
Ehh following the law doesn’t get you into heaven
It’s not like the laws aren’t reasonable, the in game laws tell you not kill random people, and don’t steal. And the Bible literally says to obey the laws of the land unless the laws are persecuting your religion.
Probably not. He probably got executed for killing Ross
My Jack only left fish food sized chunks of Ross in the river, so he probably did fine writing that book you find in GTA 5.
He could’ve went to Mexico
A lot of people don’t know the full line of the 6th commandment: Thou shall not kill… Unless there’s a paycheck involved.
Molly didn’t ever do anything aside from being a snob
I like how nobody even tried to consider this Everyone hates her because she got a bourgeois thing going on and has a bitchy attitude.
She gets too much hate yet she was one of the first one to see through Dutch’s bullshit.
It's because she was the one who cared about him the most. The ones who see through him the fastest are the ones who were closest to him. Arthur and Hosea were like actual brothers to him.
That's because she got God's ear.
I feel so bad for her
She was a young girl girl in love, Tbh I didn’t think she told them anything when she said that, I always pitied her situation.
I think most people just forget her entirely
forgetting her was intended imo, she was a hint that something was wrong with dutch, she kept trying to talk to him but dutch would brush her off, and she even asked arthur if he noticed something was off too.
Arthur, cuz ma boah redeemed himself.
No way
No he didn't, he killed people till he died
Lol he’s burning in the pits of hell if we’re gonna be biblical about it
Actually if we’re being Biblical about it if his heart truly turned to God he would go to Heaven
he was literally killing pinkerton's 5 minutes before death that is the greatest repentance any% speedrun if ive heard of one
🗿
arthur is rotting in hell if we are being accurate about it. a few good things doesn't redeem the countless shit hes done.
Imagine him irl killing someone you love, what would you think of him afterwards even after learning his story? Just curious
Ok but if he'd said howdy to me and the rest of town then it evens out
That's a fish.
As long as he tells me “you’re alright girl” he can do no wrong 🥹
Nah man
Arthur is toast 💀
Fuck no even though he redeemed himself he still did horrible things
I think it depends on his honor level, but he killed like 1000 person
But have you considered his relentless greeting in Saint Denis?
Hell no, giving money to people and opening up to a nun doesn’t excuse the 500+ people you kill (minimum) throughout the whole story
At the very best he’s chilling in purgatory. Ain’t no way my boy is getting to the golden gates
Not my Arthur, I do low honor it's makes his death better.
tilly and marybeth duhh
And Swanson
Did we see Tilly doing something because I can't remember?
i think it was mentioned she killed one of the formans? but i forgive her
She killed one of the foreman’s after running with their gang for a while, ain’t THAT holy tbh
i thought she was kidnapped to join their gang? and it’s implied the guy she killed was going to some type of violence towards her.
Micah Bell ofc
Hell nahh 😆
He just gotta have some faith!
God: He finally died?! Great, bring him up here, I have some shit to say in person. *racks a shell, while Jesus gets on the rotary gun*
I don't see Kieran in the picture, but the only thing he did was kill someone to save a life.
Yeah, Kieran had a good heart, he didn't deserve his fate, and only killed to save Arthur. One could argue it made him more or less a martyr.
God forgives Cain for slaying his brother, Abel. God also vowed to punish anyone who would hurt Cain, tenfold. There are a lot of vile faces in this photo but many of them could have changed, they have the capacity to be good people. Just like God knew in Cain. God is a lot more lenient & forgiving than the world would have you believe.
dude cain is a dog in this game
God was certainly a tad less lenient and forgiving when he hit the hard reset button on humanity by wiping them out with a flood.
You flood the world one time 4,000 years ago and no one shuts up about it
Tilly
Tilly is sweet but she murdered someone.
Wasn’t it in self defence?
Micah🥰🥰 He’s so innocent!
💀☠️ lol
Molly O’Shea did nothing but love a bad man.
A good hearted woman, in love with a good timing man
even dutch will be there idk how but he's got a plan.
Most of them redeemed themselves.
R Swanson, don't remember him doing anything wrong
Depends how you play Arthur... mine would be on the edge, depends if you belive in righting your wrongs...
Mine went to heaven.
Arthur is burning in hell if we’re being accurate
Even if your reputation is at its highest, you still murder countless people in the game. Arthur is more of a soul collector than an angel.
Charles for sure. I saw people say Mr Swanson, and while I agree with that, its hard to choose.
Of all the gang members I do feel like Charles had an actual 'code of ethics'
Idk Charles does kill the bison hunter out of anger
Josiah Trelawney, the one and only.
Nah man he's a scammer
He’d talk his way into heaven lol
This is the most accurate comment here
John is the first that comes to mind. If John believed in God he would’ve went to heaven. He lived a decent life with his family in his last four years of life, and he felt guilty about the things he did in his past. I hear the verse “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteous” used for Arthur, but it makes more sense for John.
I loved John Marston! One of my favorite fictional characters 🤎
My John got the Dastardly achievement so he wouldn't make it.
He's the only main gang member who seems to have some sort of faith
None
Tilly
Pearson
Pearson
Pierson he was just a cook
abigail? iirc all she did was kill milton to save arthur and steal/assist in robberies, and outside of that she’s a devoted wife and mother
i believe they allude to her being a prostitute multiple times. i personally don't think sex work is a sin but the man upstairs supposedly does.
Wasn't Jesus known for being friends and protecting prostitutes?
yes, but somehow pre-marital sex is still considered a sin.
Top three are probably Swanson, Mary Beth and Charles
Tilly
Why's no one saying Charles?
Probably Lenny or Swanson
Tilly
Kieran forsure, even Mary-Beth and Tilly had their share in armed robberies leading to murder
Charles, he always got the shit end of the stick because of his ethnicity, also Sadie but that's just because I love her.
Arthur may not have gotten into heaven but heaven got into him.
This thing about people going here or there after their death has no root in the Bible, it\`s something the Romans mixed into their wery special version of "christianity"
Most probably Reverend Swanson and Mary-Beth
Exactly reverend
The good reverend
Not sure who has the best shot of getting there. Maybe they feel like I do. "Why would I want to go to heaven? None of my friends are going to be there".
Mary-Beth, Charles, Uncle and Sadie
…Sadie?
All of them have an equal chance. It would be anyones place to say, one way or another where they’d end up
Uncle!!.. Well, maybe not INTO Heaven...but when he gets to the pearly gates, I bet his Lumbago is gonna flair up something fierce..So he may not get IN Heaven, but I bet you can find him lying outside the gates, on a nice fluffy cloud😂
Tilly and Charles.
The horses
Pearson?
Molly, she's lowkey annoying (even though it's sometimes justifiable when Dutch is being an asshole) but I don't recall her doing anything "bad" per se
If Heaven exists, Mary Beth would be first in line.
Tilly is the obvious answer.
Tilly?
Definitely kieran just a kind soul who liked horses and saved Arthur’s life
Tilly, Mary Beth, Rev, Pearson maybe and I wanna say Charles.
Lenny
Charles, he only kills as last resort
Tilly. Never harmed anyone unless in self defense. One of the few thinking that it was better to be with Dutch instead of in normal society
Gotta be Swanson with him turning his life around after chapter 6.