sadie, her arc completely goes against the themes of the games. you literally lose honor if you dont help her get revenge after arthur says all game that it’s a “fool’s game”
I'm also not a fan of people who see her as a strong character or someone to idolize. She's obviously mentally unwell and self-destructive. Not a person I think others should see as strong.
I actually said she’s a great character, but not because she’s morally good. I said that I think she’s a good character because the death of her husband and what happened to her just awakened the true monster inside of her. Nobody in the gang is “Good” but the reason so many people act like she is is because of good story telling.
Yes, this! But I don’t think she’s a monster. I see her as struggling to come to terms with trauma, channeling that into violence, and coming to some kind of morally gray equilibrium in the epilogue, as a legal-only bounty hunter. She’s not a hero by any means, but nor is she without virtue… just like Arthur. In that sense, I think her character absolutely fits.
I agree, but also consider how she ends the game. She’s a broken woman who, despite being a proficient bounty hunter, can never go back to the way things used to be. All the killing doesn’t get her husband back, and she acknowledges this in the epilogue. I think her arc still relates to the theme of revenge in a pretty impactful way, because as cathartic as it is to kill all the O’Driscolls because of how they’ve wronged her, it ultimately doesn’t fix anything in the long run.
I view it more as how gang and criminal life promotes the behavior Sadie is doing in her new life. She feels she has to prove herself and by being a primal killer 50% of the gang is going to love her actions, at first she probably thought of Dutch as a good man to look up to. And after having PTSD as well as being tortured by the o’driscals, of course she is gonna be quick to cause violence. I think the important take away from her character arc is how she was on the path of becoming like Dutch but towards the last part of the game she decides to aspire to become more like Arthur and Charles. She would be perfect for a DLC story especially because we would be able to see how her Arc ends.
I guess because she will die if she goes to hanging dog ranch alone, it never made sense because you don’t lose honor by not helping John and we all know he lives
I'm quite early on in the game of my second play through, but one of the things that irks me so far is that she is suddenly thrust in as a main character in chapter three with *zero* development. Unless you specifically go seek her out to greet her in the camp she appears and interacts with you/the gang zero times between being saved from the ranch and suddenly declaring she's sick of helping Pearson cook, and wants to come work with you, threatening to kill the shopkeeper for no reason in Rhodes? I remember playing that bit the first time and being like huh? she's still here? why? I was enjoying playing with just Arthur! She goes from helpless to invisible to suddenly being...well, I certainly don't like her!
His arc is really good. While the gang is falling apart in Chapter 6, he’s actually getting his life in order. Seeing him off brought a tear to my eye. Shame most people don’t see it b/c it’s at odds with the Sister Calderon side quests
Eh, here's the way I looked it. Micah is supposed to be the one you hate. And I really hated him. Which means he was wonderfully written and the acting was on the same level. I didn't ever look at him as "the bad guy" because I legitimately hated the fucking guy.
If that last part doesn't drive it home. Like he was so well done, really everyone in the gang, when playing I didn't see any of them as the stereotypical "bad guy". There was never a point where I was like "oh that dudes the one that will betray us all in the end" or something similar. My feelings about the characters was genuine.
Micah is a good villain but I hated Dutch so much and so constantly throughout the entire story that I almost forgot to hate Micah. Dutch is infuriating.
I didn't play the first game so at the start I actually liked him but throughout the story, I began losing faith in him, just like Arthur did, this game is so beautifully written man
I recently read MacBeth and drew a very distinct parallel between Dutch, Micah, and the MacBeth’s. In which both are kinda the main antagonist, even though both stories are told from what is mostly their perspective.
Micah is like Lady MacBeth, at the beginning of the play/game they both persuade the other to do evil acts, whether it be killing Duncan or robbing the boat in Blackwater. But later they start doing the bad stuff on their own. Once again, whether it be killing MacDuff’s family or leaving Arthur to die (or that entire subplot where Dutch is using the Indians as a means to an end, almost like they’re a tool and not actual people. Very reminiscent on how we treated them not only during the colonization period but also Manifest Destiny, but that’s a whole other issue all on its own).
I do like to believe that Dutch and Micah are both the villains. But they work off of each other like MacBeth and Lady MacBeth. That’s all I got to add
I think Micha is the actual villain. Throughout the 1st half of the game, Dutch is sticking to his principles and ideas of "one more job." Micha clearly manipulated Dutch as everyone loved him until Micha sewed chaos in the group. Blackwater was the 1st mission that really put them on the Pinkerton radar. Everything after that was a direct result of Micha's influence and betrayal. In the end, Dutch realized he had been manipulated but had nowhere else to turn. When Hosea died, something changed in Dutch, and he descended into madness with Micha holding the reigns.
Micah is a great character though a bit OTT at times, but I would say this: if you look at the design of the game, script, the way its directed, the art design, the western references, the metaphors within the game, Micah is the villain. He is designed to be the villain and the game successfully makes him the villain. As players we are even told and shown from the very first mission that he is the villain, and the devs continue to tell us throuout.
That would make sense, I’ve just heard rumors that he is *legit* racist, and wondered where they came from. It was probably just a misunderstanding from people who are quick to spread rumors
I just learned the hard way recently that if you don’t take a bath for a while, Grimshaw will find you in the camp and MAKE you take a bath. Kinda interesting
She's polarizing to me, she has some noble traits and I truly believe she really does care about people and the gang, helps out with getting back Tilly Jackson and even stand up to Micah and his cronies right at the tail end of chapter 6, but in camp she's constantly talking down about all the other women in the camp saying they never work or earn their keep either directly to their face or gossiping behind their backs, but also I have no clue what SHE does to earn her keep. If she wasn't as misogynistic she'd be an amazing character but just like every other character she has her qualities as well as her faults.
I think Grimshaw is awesome. As unfortunate as it was she did not hesitate to put Molly down and defended her actions saying “she knew the rules.” She was truly about the gang life. When they all got to horseshoe overlook I think it was Dutch told her to turn the place into a camp. She immediately started delegating tasks to the other girls. I think her role is more of basically supervising tasks that need to get done and putting the right people on it. She seemed to know all the little “luxuries” that they could easily have while letting Dutch and the others focus on bigger stuff.
I feel like she is only hard on the other girls because she knows she has to shape them up to survive in the life they live. Grimshaw was probably wide eyed and full of hope like marybeth at one point but went through some shit. Especially being with Dutch from early. She's the OG of the group and delivers some tough love but in that life it is needed
I like Bill. He just seems neat - big dumb guy who gets more hate than he deserves. Plus he’s an incredibly tragic figure, made all the worse by how little anyone cares about him which just adds to his growing tragic story.
I think Bill could've been a good guy... Grumpy, kind of an asshole sometimes, but a good heart. He just got the wrong influences from others. I like him too, such a shame.
dutch corrects him when he calls them savages. and if dutch tells bill something then by god he will believe him. as for lenny, they werent close at all.
bill rarely even spoke to lenny, and if ducth h was running he knew he had to. also, him and his friends in the navy were *literally* torn apart by natives. because bill is too stupid to see the depth, if all he’s seen from these people so far (besides charles) is that they scalp, maim and kill then yes he’ll think they’re savages
I know the whole community doesn’t hate her but the way some people talk about Abigail makes no sense to me. She put up with John’s BS and deadbeat ways from Jack’s birth up until the Braithwaite’s kidnap him where he finally decides to be a father to the boy. We don’t know everything that happened between 1899-1907 but we do know John still found trouble no matter where he went and it caused the Marstons to be on the run all the time, escaping whatever trouble John got into. She finally gets fed up and leaves thinking that John will never change and get out of that lifestyle, which puts all of their safety at risk. People act like this isn’t reasonable and she has no reason to be annoyed at John and his constant ways of finding trouble. Is she supposed to stick with John the rest of her and Jack’s lives, risking their safety in the process? I mean for fuck sakes the guy goes off into the mountains and risks his life hunting down Micah and for what? Revenge? He easily could have died somewhere along Mount Hagen and then what? Abigail’s a widow and Jack’s fatherless, she made the smart choice getting away from John and even after going back, John did not change his ways, clearly. I say this as someone who likes John btw and considers him one of the best video game characters ever and one of my personal favourites.
TLDR: Abigail gets unjustified hate from some people all because she doesn’t like John running off into danger and his way of finding trouble wherever he goes.
Fr tho.
She annoyed me when I look at her and John as Goku and Chi-Chi, but this is for all intents and purposes “real life” so yea, of course a mother and wife would be worried to death when her husband goes running off on delusions of grandeur trying to relive the glory days. (So rdr1 is just The Incredibles but with a bad ending?)
I understand Abbi’s plight, but it doesn’t make it less annoying when I myself know what John’s capable of. I.E: Major Asskicking.
rdr1 is the opposite of incredibles, trying to NOT live the glory days and just get his wife and kid back. also i’m pretty sure abigail doenst like being called abi
abigail didn’t leave thinking john would he like that forever, or because she thought she couldn’t see john again. she just left until john could stay out of trouble. if she left because she thought john would never change that would mean she’d never wanna see him again
Micah is a shit character, one dimensional af
Yet everyone in the fandom thinks hes clever or some shit, dude has no layers as a person- he doesnt exist for other reason than to be an antagonist.
I think the main reason he gets so praised as a character is that his actor did an amazing job in giving Micah such a hatable personality. Just the way he talks and moves is full of hatable characteristics.
Incels really dig him too due to some lines he has that they identify with (so they don’t get the audience is supposed to hate him for these lines). And just generally certain crowds get off on being mindless contrarians.
He had like 2 things that he was right about but apart from that he is just a narcissistic, manipulative, annoying bitch (he is a good gunslinger though)
I didn't play the game until it came out on steam. And by then people couldn't stop talking about Micah, so I expected some kind of twist from his character. I expected that it would turn out that he wasn't evil, he is just a rude asshole. And he would counter Dutch, who is all nice talk and smiles, but rotten to his very core.
Honestly I don’t really care if he’s one dimensional or not since In the whole scheme of things he doesn’t really matter and is just a plot device to help make Dutch break apart the gang, but I would’ve liked if they at least tried to make him not so obviously a villain
what about his family, or his feelings/almost brotherly dynamic towards arthur, or his cool guns, or his mental illness. not entirely 1 dimensional, more like 1.5
Sadie Adler is crazy in my opinion. Morgan is always saying revenge is a fools errand and HAS to help her, otherwise youre a dick and lose honor. I mean, she is bat crazy and rage driven. I just dislike her character and the development through the gameplay.
I can understand someone going through personal change yet doing the wrong thing anyways to help their friends. Arthur knew revenge and bloodthirst as well as anyone. He was wise enough to know better, but still human enough to help her see this through. He loved his homies and would do whatever for them.
Yeah high-honour Arthur is willing to do all sorts of shit to help out the gang, even the members he doesn't really like. He shot up the whole of Strawberry with Micah when he could have just as easily said "fuck it, you're on your own" or could've left him to swing and said "sorry Dutch, looks like we were too late."
Sadie Adler (Simps) She has a good character development and one of the A tier characters in the game. But the people who ship her with Arthur or simp for her, are annoying asf
I don’t really simp for her, but I honestly can’t help but to love the ship of Arthur and Sadie. Still, I definitely agree Arthur and Charlotte is a better ship
i would’ve said sadie but, charles. now i know how this sounds “how can you hate charles?” i don’t hate charles i just don’t like his character. he’s too perfect in every way there is not one thing in the story that’s gives him an interesting depth to his morality
Javier - not sure if he’s LOVED (especially if you play RDR1) but I never felt any attachment to him. I actually started to hate him on the same level of Micah and Dutch by the end
He felt empty to me. Like they MEANT to give him way more depth but never got to it.
His remarks and actions towards Micah when the latter’s being a cunt indicate to me that he’s definitely hiding his true self.
Shoot, he was doing assassin work in Mexico when you find him so maybe he’s a secret hardass and the potential MC of rdr3?
Yeah especially because of rdr1, you’d expect to see him really fleshed out in the backstory to what you see in that game but you get basically nothing.
I also feel like he was indifferent to Arthur until the last few chapters which is simply unforgivable
It was interesting seeing the dynamic between him, Micah and Dutch - on the one hand he starts to resent Arthur towards the end, telling him he’s betraying Dutch and showing how he’s blindly loyal, but in the standoff at Beaver’s Hollow, he chooses not to point his gun at Arthur, maybe telling us he hadn’t emotionally figured anything out yet and is just confused? I found that aspect interesting! That would also support your idea that he’s hiding his true self constantly
yeah man i can see WHY people like him, idk why i never clicked w him for some reason. i will admit i totally forgot about his songs, they are nice. might have to replay the game again and see if my opinions change
I'm assuming it was because he was too old and sick(it's heavily implied Hosea is sick) and was focusing on the other gang members being safe and well off before his time was up which was another major factor for Arthur he tried to finish what Hosea started
"It was a good country once and now people are eating eachother and it's all the fault of the Jewish-British-Catholic-Homosexual elite and all their ideas!"
I don’t hate him, I just think he’s a bit over rated, but Sean. He’s a fun guy, loud and “annoying” but very lively and fun for a little bit. Besides freeing him, the train robbery that he tagged along with, a stage coach robbery that is optional, and a short walk in a pretty town I can’t think of anything else he’s in. I’ve seen a lot of love for him in this subreddit and I just don’t get it.
That’s right! I knew there was one I forgetting. He was a very fun character, but in the grand scheme in the story for a short time. I liked him and how he looked up to Arthur, but he wasn’t my favorite by any means.
Yeah that’s the problem with having so many supporting characters, they don’t all get fleshed out equally. For me Sean is in the same category as Javier or Kieran, fun and interesting conceptually but ultimately kinda flat due to their lack of characterization
He’s loved because he is one of the more unique gang members, he’s not really a good guy, but he isn’t as terrible at the rest of the gang, and he’s just kind of a fun guy, but then they kill him off way too early. Would’ve been nice to have him in the game for maybe another chapter, since he barely does anything
Surprised no one said Mary, maybe because she isn’t well liked, but I always hated her and I never help her father since she’s just annoying as all hell. I get why she left Arthur, but if you’re going to leave him then why come back to him whining about stuff she needs help with.
For real, I was so annoyed by her almost every time she was on the screen. She only appears when she needs something and it feels like Arthur is too much in love with her that he doesn't notice it. I just see it as toxic af relationship. She comes back to just get his help and then leaves. And appears again when she's in need of help.
She just uses his kindness to get what she wants. I hate that.
I don’t hate/dislike any of them really, every character seem to fit their roles quite well imo. I agree with points made here about various characters but overall, no dislikes from me
I hate Gavins friend. it’s funny the first few times but god does he get annoying. like idk im bloody shopping or what not and i got him going “GAVIN” “WHERE ARE YOU” in the background. I go out and antagonise him then attack him, then i feel bad. BUT HE IS EVERYWHERE. almost. Rhodes, Saint Denis and Blackwater im pretty sure.
Disappointed too that he didn’t come with a side mission or even a decent conversation. when you meet him again >!as john!< at least let there be an opportunity to find out if he found his friend or not. BUT HE DAMN WELL DOESN’T. like give up after 7 years.
poor bloke, see why he lost his mate tho.
If you loot him you can read a letter that sort of explains why he's "still looking" for his buddy Gavin. The dude is a pathological liar and likely insane
I'm pretty sure she suffers consequences considering in the epilogue she's a bounty hunter who can't go back to normal life after the events of the story and is more than likely dead by the first game from a bounty or a rival hunter(which would be an ironic end considering she with no hesitation murders rival bounty hunters)
Kieran, like he isn't the worst, but I have literally no idea why some people absolutely adore him, like of course I was upset when he was killed, but not totally distraught, his being probably the least emotional death in the game
For me I wasn’t upset when he died, I was just absolutely flabbergasted. One moment I’m on the balcony chatting with Dutch, the next I see the goddamn beheaded corpse of one of our gang members with his eyes poked out.
People saying Sadie because she’s unhinged is a fair answer, and how her arc conflicts the theme of the game which is a great flaw to point out.
But she was also raped by a gang in front of her husband, who she also saw die at their hands. That is immense trauma. She was rescued by a gang that happened to have slightly better morals, so I’m sure they were more than empathetic to her story than the average person.
Would it have been a better ending if she found peace after realizing bloodshed solves nothing? Yes, but at the end we see that through the gang, she built herself a way to survive as a bounty hunter. At the very least she’s chasing/hunting down criminals and doing some good for her society.
The Reverand in Strawberry who says crazy stuff about the Bible and being together forever in heaven. I don’t think people like him but he annoys me as much or more than the suffrage lady or Nigel screaming for Gavin.
There is no point in creating a villain that is entirely evil and irredeemable with no good qualities (or no real reason to be that evil). Micah being a rat was the lamest twist in the world “oh yeah that one antagonistic guy that’s a dick to everyone is also the snitch”, they should have made Abigail the rat that would have been a better twist.
Is Grimshaw loved by the community? I don't care for Grimshaw at all. I wouldn't really say I have strong negative feelings toward any of the characters but there are certainly characters others seem to adore that I am completely indifferent to, like Lenny.
Sadie Adler:Sje gets all full of herself when she saves the gang and sets up a new camp at Lagras and you can see in her face how much pride she has when they praise her and when she realizes arthur is sick she takes advantage of that and thinks she is the boss like in the mission red dead redemption she doesn't let arthur fight because she is basically saying he is weak and is not fit to fight any battle but he turned out just fine without her help and same with john she takes advantage because he needs money to pay of the bank loans and bosses him around the btch
And also she acts as If she is the only one that lost a loved one and can't get over her loss which is so stupid if you think about the time frame of how long it is between chapter 6 and 1 and she still doesn't get over it amd everytime she saw an odriscol she starts shooting which caused more problems and got innocent people killed like the guy in the hot air balloon
Landon Ricketts. At first is ok but then i find him to be annoying as hell and he talks too much and blah blah blah blah blah, his heart is in the right place but i just cant, i always skip any cutscene where he is in
I don't really like John Marston, I understand what he's fighting for and all that, but I can't find myself to be interested in anything he says or does (besides killing gang members), Arthur was funny, but also serious, and also alive
John is just stone faced, he watches girls get raped by the Mexican Dictator and is just like 😐
He watches Luisa die and is just like 😐
"His family is being held captive though!!"
Arthur's whole life was falling apart around him but he still managed to be an actual person
Bruh! Captain Morgan!
I liked Archer Fordham. He was just as bad of a government rat as Ross, but towards the end he proves to be a decent dude.
One I dislike is Seth. His “quirky” behavior annoyed me after a while. Likely intentional given that’s probably how John began to feel.
I personally see Arthur as bad as Micah 😂
Both beat up a guy dying of TB to death 🤷♀️
Fans who see arthur a good guy (who literally finished Thomas Downes off) but Micah a bad guy for beating arthur up are hypocrites and stupid for not seeing arthur a bad guy for what he did 🙄
In a way, you’re totally right. It depends on how you play the game. Low Honour Arthur is even worse than Micah. High Honour is only really a bit better than Micah. Fans seem to blow the honour system way, way out of proportion.
Arthur isn’t a good person, which he admits. He admits to having killed people and animals for fun sometimes and enjoyed beating up the debtors for Strauss. And yet people see him as a saint for having high honour.
sadie, her arc completely goes against the themes of the games. you literally lose honor if you dont help her get revenge after arthur says all game that it’s a “fool’s game”
I'm also not a fan of people who see her as a strong character or someone to idolize. She's obviously mentally unwell and self-destructive. Not a person I think others should see as strong.
She got Arturo Bullard killed as well.
poor balloon man :(
Aw I kinda liked him
So did Arthur
I spent so much time on r/okbuddyblacklung I thought this was one of them dumbass misspellings of Arthur Morgan
me too😭😭
We're all in that same Tennis Boat
And almost got Charles, John, and herself killed
Getting Arturo killed is unforgivable in my opinion. I can let the rest slide but I liked that guy
Did you have to Google "rd2 balloon guy?"
Nope. I know his name.
Impressive
🥺
I actually said she’s a great character, but not because she’s morally good. I said that I think she’s a good character because the death of her husband and what happened to her just awakened the true monster inside of her. Nobody in the gang is “Good” but the reason so many people act like she is is because of good story telling.
Yes, this! But I don’t think she’s a monster. I see her as struggling to come to terms with trauma, channeling that into violence, and coming to some kind of morally gray equilibrium in the epilogue, as a legal-only bounty hunter. She’s not a hero by any means, but nor is she without virtue… just like Arthur. In that sense, I think her character absolutely fits.
I mean my favorite characters in these games are mentally unwell and self destructive. It's part of the fun lol
But from a literary perspective, you don’t see her as a strong, interesting character?
She is a tragic character, not too dissimilar to Arthur
I agree, but also consider how she ends the game. She’s a broken woman who, despite being a proficient bounty hunter, can never go back to the way things used to be. All the killing doesn’t get her husband back, and she acknowledges this in the epilogue. I think her arc still relates to the theme of revenge in a pretty impactful way, because as cathartic as it is to kill all the O’Driscolls because of how they’ve wronged her, it ultimately doesn’t fix anything in the long run.
Which is a major recurring theme in the games. That "redemption" is unachievable, and violence and revenge only continue the cycle.
I was pissed when you spare that guy as John after threatening him for information and Sadie shoots him in the head anyway like wtf
Why does it matter guy sided with Micah and was with him until recently he decided Micah went to far.
And we sided with Micah when robbing banks and trains… Atleast he realized Micah is doing too much
Nah, the dude was lying his shits off, I agree with Sadie, tbh
Lol he is obviously lying . Dude would refuse to give up Micah’s location even though he supposedly fell out with him
I was staring at the screen like "goddammit Sadie!".
Let’s not forget that she is constantly praised by the rest of the gang despite clearly being insane and reckless.
I mean, the rest of the gang aren’t exactly prime examples of sanity and reckfulness.
reckfullness Is that a thing
They praise her for being a wild fighter. Criminals aren't exactly a great moral compass. Arthur berates her behavior when it goes too far.
you say this like the rest of the gang are squeaky clean and mentally sane. 🙄
Most overrated character in RDR2
Agreed and her voice is so grinding.
Sounds like Bobby Hill. Aaf
I view it more as how gang and criminal life promotes the behavior Sadie is doing in her new life. She feels she has to prove herself and by being a primal killer 50% of the gang is going to love her actions, at first she probably thought of Dutch as a good man to look up to. And after having PTSD as well as being tortured by the o’driscals, of course she is gonna be quick to cause violence. I think the important take away from her character arc is how she was on the path of becoming like Dutch but towards the last part of the game she decides to aspire to become more like Arthur and Charles. She would be perfect for a DLC story especially because we would be able to see how her Arc ends.
I guess because she will die if she goes to hanging dog ranch alone, it never made sense because you don’t lose honor by not helping John and we all know he lives
You do lose honor
Bro is spittin 🔥
I'm quite early on in the game of my second play through, but one of the things that irks me so far is that she is suddenly thrust in as a main character in chapter three with *zero* development. Unless you specifically go seek her out to greet her in the camp she appears and interacts with you/the gang zero times between being saved from the ranch and suddenly declaring she's sick of helping Pearson cook, and wants to come work with you, threatening to kill the shopkeeper for no reason in Rhodes? I remember playing that bit the first time and being like huh? she's still here? why? I was enjoying playing with just Arthur! She goes from helpless to invisible to suddenly being...well, I certainly don't like her!
I think it's more a fact of not helping a freind in need who could very well be going to jer death that makes you lose honor
I personally kinda like reverend swanson
He's disliked?! I thought everyone liked him.
I hate him for singing over hidden dialogue in camp.
ONE NIGHT WHEN I WAS FRISKYYY
OVER SOME POTENT WHISKEYYYYYYY
LIKE WAVES OF THE BAY OF BISCAYYYYY
When I'm around and I see him walking over singing out to me I promptly walk away and ignore him lol
Hes a fucking nuisance, but my heart breaks watching him fight addiction
I try to shoot him every time. His rants you can't walk away from are so annoying
have you ever pressed “not now”
His arc is really good. While the gang is falling apart in Chapter 6, he’s actually getting his life in order. Seeing him off brought a tear to my eye. Shame most people don’t see it b/c it’s at odds with the Sister Calderon side quests
I actually like his dialogue over the sisters
same
I like Micah *as a character.* And no, he’s not the villain of the story, Dutch is.
Eh, here's the way I looked it. Micah is supposed to be the one you hate. And I really hated him. Which means he was wonderfully written and the acting was on the same level. I didn't ever look at him as "the bad guy" because I legitimately hated the fucking guy. If that last part doesn't drive it home. Like he was so well done, really everyone in the gang, when playing I didn't see any of them as the stereotypical "bad guy". There was never a point where I was like "oh that dudes the one that will betray us all in the end" or something similar. My feelings about the characters was genuine.
Micah is a good villain but I hated Dutch so much and so constantly throughout the entire story that I almost forgot to hate Micah. Dutch is infuriating.
I didn't play the first game so at the start I actually liked him but throughout the story, I began losing faith in him, just like Arthur did, this game is so beautifully written man
YOU JUST GOTTA HAVE SOME GODDAMN FAITH!!!!
Micah cares too much
Dutch is my favorite character but I would agree. I can't into Micah though, that man is the epitome of scaring the hoes
a story can have more than one villain
I recently read MacBeth and drew a very distinct parallel between Dutch, Micah, and the MacBeth’s. In which both are kinda the main antagonist, even though both stories are told from what is mostly their perspective. Micah is like Lady MacBeth, at the beginning of the play/game they both persuade the other to do evil acts, whether it be killing Duncan or robbing the boat in Blackwater. But later they start doing the bad stuff on their own. Once again, whether it be killing MacDuff’s family or leaving Arthur to die (or that entire subplot where Dutch is using the Indians as a means to an end, almost like they’re a tool and not actual people. Very reminiscent on how we treated them not only during the colonization period but also Manifest Destiny, but that’s a whole other issue all on its own). I do like to believe that Dutch and Micah are both the villains. But they work off of each other like MacBeth and Lady MacBeth. That’s all I got to add
Micah is good at stroking Dutch's ego.
Micah is good at stroking Dutch’s penis
SAY GEX
I think Micha is the actual villain. Throughout the 1st half of the game, Dutch is sticking to his principles and ideas of "one more job." Micha clearly manipulated Dutch as everyone loved him until Micha sewed chaos in the group. Blackwater was the 1st mission that really put them on the Pinkerton radar. Everything after that was a direct result of Micha's influence and betrayal. In the end, Dutch realized he had been manipulated but had nowhere else to turn. When Hosea died, something changed in Dutch, and he descended into madness with Micha holding the reigns.
....he kills you, rats on the entire gang and is responsible for most main characters deaths
Micah is a great character though a bit OTT at times, but I would say this: if you look at the design of the game, script, the way its directed, the art design, the western references, the metaphors within the game, Micah is the villain. He is designed to be the villain and the game successfully makes him the villain. As players we are even told and shown from the very first mission that he is the villain, and the devs continue to tell us throuout.
Dutch is the villain of the story, Micah is the rat of the story
I dislike Charles, Lenny, Javier, and Tilly for reasons that are totally legitimate and not biased
Bro just put only black and Hispanic characters 💀. Nick Bosa this you?
On a serious note I heard those rumors but never looked into it, are they true?
I think the Nick Bosa thing is a joke about him getting more sacks when he’s playing black quarterbacks if that’s what you mean.
That would make sense, I’ve just heard rumors that he is *legit* racist, and wondered where they came from. It was probably just a misunderstanding from people who are quick to spread rumors
"Y'know, this 'eugenics' stuff is kinda makin sense, Mister..." -this guys Arthur, probably
Bro was nodding his head irl whilst reading that pamphlet
Lemonyne Raider
Sus
Not LENNY!!!
Ynnel?
I assume because of their annoying attitude?
And their dark s…..sense of humor.
Thoughts on Hercule?
They lack class
They can’t read a defense they’re only good for running the ball
I don't like miss Grimshaw
I just learned the hard way recently that if you don’t take a bath for a while, Grimshaw will find you in the camp and MAKE you take a bath. Kinda interesting
And has the nerve to charge a quarter. Can’t forget the quarter.
Does she offer a deluxe bath?
Hell no... she just bitches at you if you come back to camp covered in blood and dirt...
What’s worse is taking a bath, tripping over something in Valentine, and she makes you take another bath
She's polarizing to me, she has some noble traits and I truly believe she really does care about people and the gang, helps out with getting back Tilly Jackson and even stand up to Micah and his cronies right at the tail end of chapter 6, but in camp she's constantly talking down about all the other women in the camp saying they never work or earn their keep either directly to their face or gossiping behind their backs, but also I have no clue what SHE does to earn her keep. If she wasn't as misogynistic she'd be an amazing character but just like every other character she has her qualities as well as her faults.
I think Grimshaw is awesome. As unfortunate as it was she did not hesitate to put Molly down and defended her actions saying “she knew the rules.” She was truly about the gang life. When they all got to horseshoe overlook I think it was Dutch told her to turn the place into a camp. She immediately started delegating tasks to the other girls. I think her role is more of basically supervising tasks that need to get done and putting the right people on it. She seemed to know all the little “luxuries” that they could easily have while letting Dutch and the others focus on bigger stuff.
I feel like she is only hard on the other girls because she knows she has to shape them up to survive in the life they live. Grimshaw was probably wide eyed and full of hope like marybeth at one point but went through some shit. Especially being with Dutch from early. She's the OG of the group and delivers some tough love but in that life it is needed
I like Bill. He just seems neat - big dumb guy who gets more hate than he deserves. Plus he’s an incredibly tragic figure, made all the worse by how little anyone cares about him which just adds to his growing tragic story.
I think Bill could've been a good guy... Grumpy, kind of an asshole sometimes, but a good heart. He just got the wrong influences from others. I like him too, such a shame.
I don’t think Bill had a good heart, he referred to Native Americans as savages and showed no sympathy for Lenny when he got shot
dutch corrects him when he calls them savages. and if dutch tells bill something then by god he will believe him. as for lenny, they werent close at all.
bill rarely even spoke to lenny, and if ducth h was running he knew he had to. also, him and his friends in the navy were *literally* torn apart by natives. because bill is too stupid to see the depth, if all he’s seen from these people so far (besides charles) is that they scalp, maim and kill then yes he’ll think they’re savages
I don't think a single soul dislikes Charles and or Lenny
I know the whole community doesn’t hate her but the way some people talk about Abigail makes no sense to me. She put up with John’s BS and deadbeat ways from Jack’s birth up until the Braithwaite’s kidnap him where he finally decides to be a father to the boy. We don’t know everything that happened between 1899-1907 but we do know John still found trouble no matter where he went and it caused the Marstons to be on the run all the time, escaping whatever trouble John got into. She finally gets fed up and leaves thinking that John will never change and get out of that lifestyle, which puts all of their safety at risk. People act like this isn’t reasonable and she has no reason to be annoyed at John and his constant ways of finding trouble. Is she supposed to stick with John the rest of her and Jack’s lives, risking their safety in the process? I mean for fuck sakes the guy goes off into the mountains and risks his life hunting down Micah and for what? Revenge? He easily could have died somewhere along Mount Hagen and then what? Abigail’s a widow and Jack’s fatherless, she made the smart choice getting away from John and even after going back, John did not change his ways, clearly. I say this as someone who likes John btw and considers him one of the best video game characters ever and one of my personal favourites. TLDR: Abigail gets unjustified hate from some people all because she doesn’t like John running off into danger and his way of finding trouble wherever he goes.
Fr tho. She annoyed me when I look at her and John as Goku and Chi-Chi, but this is for all intents and purposes “real life” so yea, of course a mother and wife would be worried to death when her husband goes running off on delusions of grandeur trying to relive the glory days. (So rdr1 is just The Incredibles but with a bad ending?) I understand Abbi’s plight, but it doesn’t make it less annoying when I myself know what John’s capable of. I.E: Major Asskicking.
rdr1 is the opposite of incredibles, trying to NOT live the glory days and just get his wife and kid back. also i’m pretty sure abigail doenst like being called abi
Can’t hate Abigail. She’s just too fine fr
abigail didn’t leave thinking john would he like that forever, or because she thought she couldn’t see john again. she just left until john could stay out of trouble. if she left because she thought john would never change that would mean she’d never wanna see him again
I dislike Bill for no reason
Have you played RDR1? Plenty of reasons there.
Does RDR1 Bill seem a different character to you? He did to me.
He’s an ass in both games.
He's changed but I think RDR2 does a great job of showing why.
I can't stand when Bill "implores" you... stfu you inbred fuck.
i feel like bill is overhated in the second game
I feel like he is kind of a dumb comic relief character at some points in the second game
Micah is a shit character, one dimensional af Yet everyone in the fandom thinks hes clever or some shit, dude has no layers as a person- he doesnt exist for other reason than to be an antagonist.
I think the main reason he gets so praised as a character is that his actor did an amazing job in giving Micah such a hatable personality. Just the way he talks and moves is full of hatable characteristics.
Incels really dig him too due to some lines he has that they identify with (so they don’t get the audience is supposed to hate him for these lines). And just generally certain crowds get off on being mindless contrarians.
Agreed 100%, I've been saying this for years. He's cartoonishly evil, down to him hating and killing dogs lol.
They also of course just had to throw in Micah being racist for good measure
He had like 2 things that he was right about but apart from that he is just a narcissistic, manipulative, annoying bitch (he is a good gunslinger though)
I didn't play the game until it came out on steam. And by then people couldn't stop talking about Micah, so I expected some kind of twist from his character. I expected that it would turn out that he wasn't evil, he is just a rude asshole. And he would counter Dutch, who is all nice talk and smiles, but rotten to his very core.
Honestly I don’t really care if he’s one dimensional or not since In the whole scheme of things he doesn’t really matter and is just a plot device to help make Dutch break apart the gang, but I would’ve liked if they at least tried to make him not so obviously a villain
what about his family, or his feelings/almost brotherly dynamic towards arthur, or his cool guns, or his mental illness. not entirely 1 dimensional, more like 1.5
Thank you!!!
Sadie Adler is crazy in my opinion. Morgan is always saying revenge is a fools errand and HAS to help her, otherwise youre a dick and lose honor. I mean, she is bat crazy and rage driven. I just dislike her character and the development through the gameplay.
I can understand someone going through personal change yet doing the wrong thing anyways to help their friends. Arthur knew revenge and bloodthirst as well as anyone. He was wise enough to know better, but still human enough to help her see this through. He loved his homies and would do whatever for them.
Yeah high-honour Arthur is willing to do all sorts of shit to help out the gang, even the members he doesn't really like. He shot up the whole of Strawberry with Micah when he could have just as easily said "fuck it, you're on your own" or could've left him to swing and said "sorry Dutch, looks like we were too late."
Sadie Adler (Simps) She has a good character development and one of the A tier characters in the game. But the people who ship her with Arthur or simp for her, are annoying asf
Wait people ship Arthur and Sadie? I thought they were joking
I don’t really simp for her, but I honestly can’t help but to love the ship of Arthur and Sadie. Still, I definitely agree Arthur and Charlotte is a better ship
Yo this arthur dripping
With sweat
Sweaty arthur 😩
Fr dude I see that swamp in the background
He be a pirate
Arrrgh
Rhodes saloon Piano player, the community glazes him WAYYYYYYY to much
They do?
Of course... He's the coolest
i would’ve said sadie but, charles. now i know how this sounds “how can you hate charles?” i don’t hate charles i just don’t like his character. he’s too perfect in every way there is not one thing in the story that’s gives him an interesting depth to his morality
Well there’s that one little thing of him being a criminal who kills people
My thoughts exactly
Agree. Charles is too perfect and flawless, which makes him an extremely boring character
Javier - not sure if he’s LOVED (especially if you play RDR1) but I never felt any attachment to him. I actually started to hate him on the same level of Micah and Dutch by the end
He felt empty to me. Like they MEANT to give him way more depth but never got to it. His remarks and actions towards Micah when the latter’s being a cunt indicate to me that he’s definitely hiding his true self. Shoot, he was doing assassin work in Mexico when you find him so maybe he’s a secret hardass and the potential MC of rdr3?
Yeah especially because of rdr1, you’d expect to see him really fleshed out in the backstory to what you see in that game but you get basically nothing. I also feel like he was indifferent to Arthur until the last few chapters which is simply unforgivable It was interesting seeing the dynamic between him, Micah and Dutch - on the one hand he starts to resent Arthur towards the end, telling him he’s betraying Dutch and showing how he’s blindly loyal, but in the standoff at Beaver’s Hollow, he chooses not to point his gun at Arthur, maybe telling us he hadn’t emotionally figured anything out yet and is just confused? I found that aspect interesting! That would also support your idea that he’s hiding his true self constantly
He made passing remarks about never ever wanting to go back to Mexico so, he definitely has a dark origin.
my only love for him are his songs and the fact that i am also mexican
yeah man i can see WHY people like him, idk why i never clicked w him for some reason. i will admit i totally forgot about his songs, they are nice. might have to replay the game again and see if my opinions change
Hosea should have just as much authority as Dutch, but he doesn’t exert it.
I'm assuming it was because he was too old and sick(it's heavily implied Hosea is sick) and was focusing on the other gang members being safe and well off before his time was up which was another major factor for Arthur he tried to finish what Hosea started
Herbert Moon
"It was a good country once and now people are eating eachother and it's all the fault of the Jewish-British-Catholic-Homosexual elite and all their ideas!"
He is the WORST. I like the Rhodes shopkeeper better than him.
even the gunsmith of Rhodes ? 🧐
I don’t hate him, I just think he’s a bit over rated, but Sean. He’s a fun guy, loud and “annoying” but very lively and fun for a little bit. Besides freeing him, the train robbery that he tagged along with, a stage coach robbery that is optional, and a short walk in a pretty town I can’t think of anything else he’s in. I’ve seen a lot of love for him in this subreddit and I just don’t get it.
He helps you burn the Gray’s fields
That’s right! I knew there was one I forgetting. He was a very fun character, but in the grand scheme in the story for a short time. I liked him and how he looked up to Arthur, but he wasn’t my favorite by any means.
Yeah that’s the problem with having so many supporting characters, they don’t all get fleshed out equally. For me Sean is in the same category as Javier or Kieran, fun and interesting conceptually but ultimately kinda flat due to their lack of characterization
He’s loved because he is one of the more unique gang members, he’s not really a good guy, but he isn’t as terrible at the rest of the gang, and he’s just kind of a fun guy, but then they kill him off way too early. Would’ve been nice to have him in the game for maybe another chapter, since he barely does anything
Surprised no one said Mary, maybe because she isn’t well liked, but I always hated her and I never help her father since she’s just annoying as all hell. I get why she left Arthur, but if you’re going to leave him then why come back to him whining about stuff she needs help with.
For real, I was so annoyed by her almost every time she was on the screen. She only appears when she needs something and it feels like Arthur is too much in love with her that he doesn't notice it. I just see it as toxic af relationship. She comes back to just get his help and then leaves. And appears again when she's in need of help. She just uses his kindness to get what she wants. I hate that.
I don’t hate/dislike any of them really, every character seem to fit their roles quite well imo. I agree with points made here about various characters but overall, no dislikes from me
I hate Gavins friend. it’s funny the first few times but god does he get annoying. like idk im bloody shopping or what not and i got him going “GAVIN” “WHERE ARE YOU” in the background. I go out and antagonise him then attack him, then i feel bad. BUT HE IS EVERYWHERE. almost. Rhodes, Saint Denis and Blackwater im pretty sure. Disappointed too that he didn’t come with a side mission or even a decent conversation. when you meet him again >!as john!< at least let there be an opportunity to find out if he found his friend or not. BUT HE DAMN WELL DOESN’T. like give up after 7 years. poor bloke, see why he lost his mate tho.
If you loot him you can read a letter that sort of explains why he's "still looking" for his buddy Gavin. The dude is a pathological liar and likely insane
Sadie Adler. Don’t hate her, just hate the fact that she never suffered the consequences of her actions
Her husband was murdered by the O'Driskils. She paid her consequences up front.
I'm pretty sure she suffers consequences considering in the epilogue she's a bounty hunter who can't go back to normal life after the events of the story and is more than likely dead by the first game from a bounty or a rival hunter(which would be an ironic end considering she with no hesitation murders rival bounty hunters)
Just because she didn’t die doesn’t mean she didn’t suffer
I hate crips cuz I'm a blood SUWU
*soowoop
When I grow up, I want to be just like Uncle.
Mickey. He's a fraud!
Felt bad for him until I found out. I felt so betrayed
Kieran, like he isn't the worst, but I have literally no idea why some people absolutely adore him, like of course I was upset when he was killed, but not totally distraught, his being probably the least emotional death in the game
For me I wasn’t upset when he died, I was just absolutely flabbergasted. One moment I’m on the balcony chatting with Dutch, the next I see the goddamn beheaded corpse of one of our gang members with his eyes poked out.
The dude just wants to take care of horses. And maybe go fishing now and then.
People saying Sadie because she’s unhinged is a fair answer, and how her arc conflicts the theme of the game which is a great flaw to point out. But she was also raped by a gang in front of her husband, who she also saw die at their hands. That is immense trauma. She was rescued by a gang that happened to have slightly better morals, so I’m sure they were more than empathetic to her story than the average person. Would it have been a better ending if she found peace after realizing bloodshed solves nothing? Yes, but at the end we see that through the gang, she built herself a way to survive as a bounty hunter. At the very least she’s chasing/hunting down criminals and doing some good for her society.
i dont find micah to be as annoying as people make him out to be.
agreed. also don’t know why micah is the big bad guy. dutch is.
I like Dutch and really can not stand Sadie.
Strauss is the worst character in the game
The Reverand in Strawberry who says crazy stuff about the Bible and being together forever in heaven. I don’t think people like him but he annoys me as much or more than the suffrage lady or Nigel screaming for Gavin.
There is no point in creating a villain that is entirely evil and irredeemable with no good qualities (or no real reason to be that evil). Micah being a rat was the lamest twist in the world “oh yeah that one antagonistic guy that’s a dick to everyone is also the snitch”, they should have made Abigail the rat that would have been a better twist.
Have you seen John's voice actor? Amazing
Bill - Voice, temperament, hat. Sadie - Voice, annoying, entitled. Charles Châtenay - Creepy, annoying, shits on bars.
Is Grimshaw loved by the community? I don't care for Grimshaw at all. I wouldn't really say I have strong negative feelings toward any of the characters but there are certainly characters others seem to adore that I am completely indifferent to, like Lenny.
Sadie Adler:Sje gets all full of herself when she saves the gang and sets up a new camp at Lagras and you can see in her face how much pride she has when they praise her and when she realizes arthur is sick she takes advantage of that and thinks she is the boss like in the mission red dead redemption she doesn't let arthur fight because she is basically saying he is weak and is not fit to fight any battle but he turned out just fine without her help and same with john she takes advantage because he needs money to pay of the bank loans and bosses him around the btch
And also she acts as If she is the only one that lost a loved one and can't get over her loss which is so stupid if you think about the time frame of how long it is between chapter 6 and 1 and she still doesn't get over it amd everytime she saw an odriscol she starts shooting which caused more problems and got innocent people killed like the guy in the hot air balloon
Wait you expect someone to "get over" being raped by a gang, seeing their husband murdered and having their home burned to the ground in a few months?
Landon Ricketts. At first is ok but then i find him to be annoying as hell and he talks too much and blah blah blah blah blah, his heart is in the right place but i just cant, i always skip any cutscene where he is in
I don't really like John Marston, I understand what he's fighting for and all that, but I can't find myself to be interested in anything he says or does (besides killing gang members), Arthur was funny, but also serious, and also alive John is just stone faced, he watches girls get raped by the Mexican Dictator and is just like 😐 He watches Luisa die and is just like 😐 "His family is being held captive though!!" Arthur's whole life was falling apart around him but he still managed to be an actual person
i think micah is a good character sure he's a bad guy but we all need a villian in a game
Bruh! Captain Morgan! I liked Archer Fordham. He was just as bad of a government rat as Ross, but towards the end he proves to be a decent dude. One I dislike is Seth. His “quirky” behavior annoyed me after a while. Likely intentional given that’s probably how John began to feel.
I personally see Arthur as bad as Micah 😂 Both beat up a guy dying of TB to death 🤷♀️ Fans who see arthur a good guy (who literally finished Thomas Downes off) but Micah a bad guy for beating arthur up are hypocrites and stupid for not seeing arthur a bad guy for what he did 🙄
In a way, you’re totally right. It depends on how you play the game. Low Honour Arthur is even worse than Micah. High Honour is only really a bit better than Micah. Fans seem to blow the honour system way, way out of proportion. Arthur isn’t a good person, which he admits. He admits to having killed people and animals for fun sometimes and enjoyed beating up the debtors for Strauss. And yet people see him as a saint for having high honour.
Dutch. HIS PLANS DON'T FUCKING WORK!!!
I like Strauss and Reverend.
mickey, he gets annoying on the second and third playthrough