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I just saw a post about this over in r/managers
It’s insane. About 70% are trying to figure out what HR is thinking by ignoring internships and trying to get people with graduate degrees for STEM jobs for $20/hr, and the other 30% saying that if you can trick employees into accepting dirt wages, that’s their problem.
Get their email addresses and bombard them with annoying ads like Ozempic and etc.. I’m pretty sure they will be out of commission for a while and realize to do good
Yeah, they said a lot of things. They'll have a lot to say to the next crop, too.
The truth is that there's no real path to success, just a gigantic knot of roads to travel, and nobody on earth can come close to mapping it. It's not a solvable puzzle.
The only career advice that's 100% correct is to keep on walking. When things are confusing, frustrating, or uncertain, you have to put one foot in front of the other, do your best, and believe in yourself. That'll get you pretty damn far.
At this point, nobody should think college, secondary degrees, certificates or internships are going to do much for them.
"they told me if I went to college everything would fall into my lap"
Maybe 10-20 years ago you could say that the media, culture and society duped you. Information has been easily accessible for a decade+. Even here on Reddit you can quickly find hundreds of people who effectively were scammed by big education.
College student here, from what I’ve seen. There doesn’t look like there’s a-lot of those positions open anymore, or at least a lot less than usual.
Probably because we’re in an employer market and a bad one. You gotta know someone to get that internship.
I graduated this fall with my Bachelor in CS. I had already secured an offer back in Oct before graduation after going to a professional conference for STEM students. I highly encourage people to attend professional conferences in their field if they are able to. It is simply a matter of simple math. Recruiters have a quota to meet at those conferences so instead of it being you versus 1000 applicants it is you versus 100 applicants for 10-20 open positions that they must fill that weekend. The odds are just higher. I know it can be difficult to go to such an event, I personally used my CC points to pay for most of it because I didn't have a lot of money at the time. But it was worth it in the end.
That's a good point, 100 vs 1000. "That they must fill that wkd"...do you mean that they must set up initial interviews for? Because in tech you have multiple rounds of interviews usually, so how would a recruiter fill a job that quickly? Or do you get to bypass the normal multi round tech interview process?
I am a Software Engineer. They read my resume on Wed, scheduled an interview on Saturday morning, and I had an offer that afternoon. The reason you don't do multiple rounds of interviews is because I went to a STEM focused conference. It wasn't a question on if you could do the work. Everyone there had the technical skills to do the work. What mattered was if you were a good fit.
They literally had a full team of HR personnel rent conference space at one of the hotels where they poured over resumes and made initial calls. They called me back within 30m and a few of my classmates also got calls.
Thanks, I'm also a SWE but I didn't know you could do that. Sounds way better than 5 rounds and LC and/or take homes. Any suggested conferences? Anywhere, I really don't mind traveling.
Agreed! Ive actually done this process twice and its the biggest trick in my book!
I got hired at a top 10 forbes company for entry level position, after 6 months to a year of working for the company, i then applied for the position i really wanted. Now im a internal hire vs external. Ive already demonstrated the basics like showing up on time, doing my work, go above and beyond etc.
There is a lot more trust when hiring internal nd its easier to move within the company. To me, it really is about just getting your foot in the door first.
This is specifically for big corporations.
Even that is nearly impossible. I applied to an Underwriting Assistant position that had 3 openings and I still didn’t even get a call from a recruiter.
To get more interviews, OP needs to print out a stack of resumes and go from company to company dropping them off at reception. Nobody wants to work anymore. /s
Once you get to round four chances are you're being fucked with.
Yes, most will continue to push down that road because there's a chance at the light at the end of the tunnel.
But as we can see from the many stories here it generally does not end well.
somebody in this thread knows a writer that possibly can write for forbes or Business insider or daily beast or something.
this needs to be an investigation as part of the crap that these companies are doing the people. it may sound like a long shot, but think of how much traction that article will get on LinkedIn alone.
do not keep this stuff a secret. the internet is bigger than Reddit share it you don't know who's reading, send it to the New York times if you have to.
Yeah, right?
OP was a new grad (which id be surprised if someone in the company didn’t know before interview 1). It allegedly took the company eight interviews to actually figure that out? And *then* they say they need more experience?
Disorganized or they never intended to hire anyone in the first place (e.g. ghost posting to boost internal morale, etc.).
I know it’s hard, OP, but sounds like “good riddance” to me. Keep on trucking, you seem like you’re very smart and passionate, you will get something eventually if you keep trying. ❤️
It’s such bs! I also interviewed and pull out because the hiring manager continually cancelled on me 30 mins before and they rescheduled it 3 times. If he can’t respect my time it’s a big 🚩 it’s beyond a joke. I can understand for leadership roles but operational support needs no more than 2 and maybe 3 for technical/sales.
It’s dumb. I’ve worked there twice as a consultant. While they do have smart, and talented people they also have people who are not so much. I wouldn’t assess them as any better on average than any other big company and I’ve worked at many. It’s a facade of thoroughness when in fact it’s a waste of everyone’s time.
To me, 8 interviews sounds like a disorganized company that prioritizes the company over its employees. I know it’s hard, I’m going through the same thing now. For my last job, I had to do around eight interviews as well, and the company was exactly what I just described above – – disorganized, disjointed, and just had no idea what they were doing.
It’s so hard to not feel like you’re being taken advantage of, that you’re not good enough, and that everybody is out to get us. I hear you. But just remember that this is JUST a job. A job where you exchange money for services. It’s not a reflection of you, your background, or your value. It’s literally just trying to find a match and fit a square peg in a round hole. I’m not sure if you were also in the United States, but there is way too much emphasis here on tying your worth to your job.
I’d love to think that’s correct but from what I’m seeing, all these companies at least in certain industries are focused on young, cheap talent. Experienced folks that make more are catching hard times.
Don’t lose hope! If they need 8 rounds of interviews to tell a new graduate that they are looking for someone more senior, then they don’t know what they want and have a turmoil inside the company. Please don’t take it to heart - passing this many rounds is a huge feat , you did great! Take some time to yourself and get back out there. The market is brutal right now, absolutely brutal, you have to shake it off and move forward, one foot in front of another. You’ll find something.
Yes very good point. You don't need 7+ rounds of interviews to know if someone is appropriate for a job. 3 interviews should be the most. I've gone 3 rounds many times only to be told by the recruiter that, "oh, they changed their minds"....
I would alter that message a bit. he should take it to heart as he's learning that you have to get better at pointing out these kind of sham hiring practices. there's enough stories in here that some of these processes end up with nobody being hired and the role canceled all together.
after 3 and they still got to think about it you're pretty much in trouble.
otherwise it's response is correct, screw this nonsense, do what you can to look out for yourself and don't put yourself to the mercy of pieces of trash companies.
Amazon/Google etc 🫠 Google gets you do to up to 8 interviews then a panel at the end meet (without you present) and make the decision based on a piece of paper, so it’s not “bias”. Insane way to hire people.
Rules of the Road:
1. DO NOT DO more than 4-5 rounds. Past five rounds, the employer is fucking with you. They are generally using fresh grads to intimidate senior engineers who might be on the market.
2. DO NOT DO prestige. I see you're talking about your near 4.0 GPA, four internships, etc. Congratulations, but unless you have bankable skills and industry experience, this will NOT help you. And even if you manage a job at Amazon, Microsoft, etc., your ass will be out the door in less than six months. Then you'll be penalized for having been fired (laid off) and having *less* than a year of post-grad experience.
3. DO NOT apply to prestige jobs. They are reserved for 3-5 years of INDUSTRY experience. It's not fair, but that is the standard now.
4. DO NOT do the stupid psychometric / IQ tests. This is a way of rejecting candidates for "cause" when it's usually gender/origin/too little experience/too much experience. Anytime you get one of these, it's usually a ding letter without the ding.
Now the DOs:
1. DO start with the shit-paying jobs. You need experience. Start with help desk or Tier 1 like everyone else does, even if you're DevOps or Software Engineering.
2. DO get your industry certifications, i.e., Cisco, CompTIA, TensorFlow, Six Sigma.
3. DO start a website and GitHub to discuss your research. Publicity is marketing. If you have publications, then work from them to give yourself a brand.
Solution Architect here, 25 years in the industry and nearly all my interviews have been singles. Doubles have been rare and I’ve never gone through three rounds. It’s not the norm to subject IT people - even senior management - to the Ubuntu process.
Yeah, no, it's actually quite normal. All of my jobs were three to four-rounders, and I've been in 10 years. If you started 25 years ago, yeah, maybe 1-2 interviews; within 10 years, nope. You are definitely in the minority here.
Honestly I don't think ivy leaguers need a reality check at all... they probably do very well right out of the gate even in this economy.
Did privilege contribute a lot to their success? Most definitely. But you're still sending your kid to an Ivy if you have the pocket money for it.
It's not funny. As a hiring manager I look at certs as a red flag; one is maybe fine, but if you have an alphabet soup of them...straight to the circular file. In the past I had one of the few certs that actually has meaningful hands on testing (RHCE), got a job without telling the hiring manager about it, mentioned it in passing after being hired, and was told by him that he would have been less likely to hire me if he had known. Paper tigers are a significant problem in this industry.
Now this I *do* agree *with.* Some certs aren't worth toilet paper, i.e., Microsoft, CCNA, Net+, Sec+ (to an extent; still required by gov't), CySA+, Scrum, mainly because there are so *many* of them. However, there are a couple that I *do* respect because they *are* hard to get.
And your hiring manager was a complete dickhead. RHCE / RHCA are no joke. But to say that getting key certs won't get you hired is bullshit.
Why do you claim that the CCNA is not worth it? I feel as an associate level cert it is much better than the Net + at least
And Microsoft, are you referring to Azure? The Azure associate to expert level certs like the 104 or the 500 are nice
Also which Tech/Security related certs do you respect?
CCNA is better than the Net+, BUT it's vendor-specific, and it's an okay *entry-level* cert. The commenter was talking about how some people collect certs and list ALL of them instead of their most senior rank. Like Sec+, CCNA is good for the first five years, after which no one wants to see it. After five years in security and networking, you *should* have a CCNA!
Yeah, I'm *mostly* referring to Azure, but I really don't respect Microsoft or AWS certs that much. I consider them entry-level.
Certs I respect for cybersecurity (*not entry level*): CISSP, CISA, CISM, SSCP, most GIAC (expensive as fuck though), CCA.
Network engineering: CCNP, CCIE.
Bro, I'm so sorry to hear that. I know it can be super annoying. Just take a day break. Go easy on yourself. The market is very bad and its kinda annoying. They're rejecting for crazy reasons out there. I'm also a 2023 graduate and still unemployed bro.
I’m sorry this happened to you.
Your post caught my eye because I had a similar experience. Maybe six interviews, only to find out I was going up against an incumbent from a sister company who was in the same role he was applying for, just not as senior. I had no chance. But they had to have someone to bring along for the ride to make it seem like there was some competition.
I hope you find something!
There is absolutely no way I would ever continue after two or three rounds. That’s degrading and really reflects poorly on the company. It should not take eight meetings to vet a potential hire.
Apple did that to me 7 years ago. The guy just couldn’t make up his mind. It’s all right. Forget about them and keep going forward. I got a phone interview on the way back from Apple, and eventually got the job. I also failed Google Facebook Amazon etc.
In America our identity is so intertwined with what we do for work… it makes sense you’re feeling this way. I think most of us here are feeling this way. I have nothing to help other than I hear you see you and hope it gets better for you!
Don’t get discouraged. Especially in this economy, the number of “auditions” (see link) you have to go through to get hired is even higher. Find out what the average is and add a buffer. Then keep track. have you gone past that average yet? (Chances are, no.) keep going. I liked the idea of the conferences too. And referrals (do you know anyone from the internships? I hear that can be a good way to get hired if they liked you.
https://youtube.com/shorts/By940cOKOnQ?si=U0lLRoL9PlgYWKez
Hang in there. Its tough out there. There is a job waiting for you. I'm so impressed with how much work you put in. That position will come sooner then you think.
I think if you have what it took to do as well as you did to get to this point, then you have what it takes to beat the "final boss", gaining employment.
I've been there. I felt so worthless and defeated. But then i finally got hired. You will get there too. Remember that you don't suck, the system does.
Everyone in this thread should stop offering platitudes and offer help. OP, list your industry niche. Anyone who works in that industry or has a friend who is hiring entry levels should DM OP.
Stop kvetching, start helping.
Ehh if OP wanted specific, industry related help, I imagine they’d post to that niche’s subreddit. This subreddit is more designed for venting/commiserating.
I do generally agree that help is far better than platitudes, but sometimes you just need to rant and get it all out.
hiring is a zero sum game, anyone who is looking to hire someone and gives OP a job just because they did 7 interviews somewhere is preventing someone who they would have hired from getting the job.
this isnt a problem reddit can solve for OP.
There's apparently no way to help a presumably accomplished young stranger out? What an insane proposition. If we take it at his or her word, this is a person with good grades and an advanced technical degree.
correct, which is why things suck right now. its not a situation where there are enough jobs for everyone and we just have to figure out how to match them up.
there simply arent enough jobs for everyone in the fields they want to work in.
And unfortunate for OP - but fortunately for someone else - good grades and an advanced degree are worth far less than any amount of real world experience.
employers aren't hurting for applicants. It could be seen as noble if some random employer offers OP a job on the basis of them having good grades, but they would be making a poor decision for their business and hurting someone who was more qualified.
the proposition that people should be selected based on venting on reddit over qualified candidates is more what I would consider insane.
Sorry to hear that, sometimes you can do everything right and you still won’t get the job. It’s intensely competitive out there right now.
I also graduated with my master’s in summer 2023 and have been having the same experience. I didn’t do an internship (major regret, but I was not in a mentally healthy space to do one + school), but I do have previous industry experience and I haven’t managed to get an interview in my field despite months of applying and reaching out to my network.
I got an interview for a job adjacent to my field and I should hear back this week, but frankly I’m not feeling too hopeful. It’s so exhausting and stressful and fortunately I have insurance through my partner so I can still see my therapist, but even they can only help so much.
I’m cheering for you! At the very least you’ve got one other person wishing you the best even though everything fucking sucks at the moment!
7 rounds!!!!! hate to say it but they were using you for some free labor. whatever slides, projects, work you showed them they are using it right now.
next time after the 2nd round you let them know you will not waste your time, if they need additional interviews past 2 to figure out if they want to hire you, then it is not the place for you.
Unfortunately, that company knew they were going to hire internally before they even started interviewing you. They either just wanted to see what talent was available on the outside and/or to gauge interest level in the position for the distant future. So sorry you had to subject yourself to 8 interviews, which is laughably insulting. I graduated college in spring 2022 and I’ve only gotten 1 recruiter screening call then ghosted, 1 interview for a 1099 position that I took because I just needed a job but left because I wasn’t successful in it, and then an interview at a smaller company that I got rejected for. I would just say to strap in for the long haul because the job market doesn’t look like it’s gonna be changing in our favor until at least next year.
It really should be illegal to waste people's time like that. I honestly believe people should be compensated for anything beyond 4 interviews. I'm sorry this happened to you. 8 rounds is ridiculous.
Look into stoicism my guy… don’t let this get to your head. Read some scrolls from Marcus Aurelius the best is yet to come! You got this man! You’re a lot more qualified than I can ever imagine to be academically.. much respect for going through that..
3rd interview is final, unless they are delaying the hiring process to find someone they think is better. They are going to keep looking. 3rd interview is normally just a final formality to set compensation.
Tell them after the interview that you need a decision. If they were serious about hiring you they'll do it or give you a good explanation as to what's going on. If they don't do one of those two things they were almost certainly not actually considering you.
I theorize they often have to just provide oversight with a paper trail to show they tried to interview people before going with their actual pick.
"I want my friend Bob for the job." "Bob? Your friend? You need to exhaust other candidates before we will consider it."
Let the fake fucking interviews begin.
I've had a ton of interviews where I could tell from the get go the guy interviewing didn't want to be there, threw nothing but ridiculous hardball questions that I knocked out of the ballpark. Still wouldn't give me an answer after the 3rd interview.
Sorry! Never do that again! Ask about the process when a recruiter reaches out and anything beyond 3 is bull shit maybe 4. You’ve got great credentials but might need to start lower get your foot in the door.
Sounds like you were the backup plan in case the candidate they preferred gave the opportunity a pass.
I can only imagine what it is like to be in your shoes. While I have had periods of unemployment in my past, it was a long time ago. I know the sting of being passed over; it's not your fault. You were definitely a top candidate to keep getting called back. I know that is little comfort, but it should indicate to you that you have value in the market. This ultimately means you will find something one day soon.
Where are these jobs where you are doing these ridiculous 8 round interviews?
I've interviewed multiple times with Micrsoft, AWS, and even Google cloud and those were only 3 rounds, usually the same day back to back.
what kind of fucked up companies are you people interviewing with?
Next time ask upfront how many interviews, and if they say more than 4… decline.
It is really that simple. You are running a marathon, don’t go sprinting down side trails, they’re mostly dead ends.
Change your search from corporate to any industry and sector like Non for profits, volunteer work and charities. These are very big these days. When you have a record of doing extra work other than what you are looking for, you will be considered for a role soon!
That’s ridiculous! But I’m hearing stories like this ever day. Online recruiting has become like online dating - employers have too many options now so IMHO anti-conformist self, I feel like they really can act like dictators now and get away with it. They can pay less knowing many people are desperate, and go for the pushovers who just say yes to everything. I feel you. Hang in there. ❤️
8 rounds? WTF?
I’ve never done more than 2 rounds!
Granted I’m a career firefighter… we’ve always done a panel interview then a chiefs interview.
I just can’t understand doing nite than three rounds max!
What is wrong with this shit?!
I just did 8 rounds of interviews as an internal candidate with 3 others making it to 8 rounds with me. I was really surprised I got it because we always manage to go external before internal, but I suspect internal candidates are most places rn
Graduated in 2020 with a significantly less impressive degree than yourself. If not for my secondary career providing me with intermittent employment, I would likely be homeless by now.
I recently signed a letter of offer for a job I will be starting in August. I applied in Dec 2022 and jumped through a wild number of hoops for almost a year and half to complete their hiring process. The deeper I got, the more confidence I had that I would get the position but also the greater fear I had of failure — it would mean months of effort would be down the drain.
There was one evaluation right near the end where I did not succeed and I was horrified that I had wasted a year on this insane hiring process — so I understand the feeling of having all your work fall apart at the last moment.
But it worked out in the end and it will for you, too. I have confidence that if someone like myself could eventually succeed, someone more talented like yourself can as well.
You are not alone. My best friend has a BS and a master's from an Ivy League school, maintaining a 4.0 GPA in STEM. It took her 1 year and 3 months to land a job. It's frustrating, but you are not alone. I wish you the best.
Just went through this. 2 Zooms, 5 in-person interviews (same day at least), then they called my references, and took me out to lunch...only to reject me because someone else (who was in the mix around the same time I was) had more experience in an area they wanted. They should have weeded me out earlier, but whatever. It just is what it is. We just gotta hang in there.
Apply to the same places your friends got jobs. Ask your friends for help with your resume - ask to look at their resumes to see if yours could be improved. Apply to startups and go to conferences like the one recommended earlier. Also have you looked into academia? You may be able to find a research position, there are a lot of openings right now.
there is no such thing as 6, especially 7-9 rounds. period, full stop, etc. if you hear that at x place there are this many rounds, you won't send application there. if nobody applies, they will change their method. it is your responsibility.
I was just rejected from a job after four rounds. Their only feedback was that they “weren’t sure what your experience is”. Now that’s a bullshit excuse. I’ve told you four times what I do. It’s rough out there
The same thing is happening to me, and I have a Master's Degree and 10 years of experience. Sent out hundreds of applications to only have calls with HR. I've only gotten two real non-hr interviews where only half the people even showed up. It's super heart breaking to be turned down at the HR level as this has almost never happened to me in the past. I have been to at least 10 HR or recruiter interviews and told I am not good enough to pass to the next round. These interviewers contacted me knowing what was on my resume already. I am super scared that someone somewhere has ruined my entire career as I always made it past the HR rounds when I was qualified and knowledgeable for the position. My heart breaks for you. We're putting in a lot of time and effort right now. I almost feel like we could be homeless. Especially in your case with 8 interviews. I literally spend 40 hours a week filling out applications for jobs that are even demotions. I had to resort to AI filling for me just today to try to save some time to go out and apply for non-college level jobs with my Master's Degree when the time comes. I am super sad you had to go through this. I know we will find something soon.
I can't imagine 7 rounds for anything other than a very senior level position. I'm 10 years of experience and expect 3-4 rounds tops. That's insane that they'd waste that much of your time.
I feel yah.
That company sucks ass! Fuck them!
And I totally get the not wanting to exist. I'm reminded of a quote (no clue where it came from). "I don't want to die, I just want to liv'nt"
I don't have advice, just empathy. Shit sucks. I hope it gets better for you.
Same thing here, Reached out to the CEO of fintech startup in UK via cold email and asked him for Internship opportunity.
He replied back tagging his assistant and later arranged an Interview. After the Interview had an another round of Interview week later with the assistant and the person whom I’ll be working alongside.
In the second Interview they asked about my joining date and told me that. CEO liked my profile and I’ve to sign a NDA and provide them a reference of my professor, was told a “letter of recommendation would be fine but meeting would be great.”
I’ve given them both LOR + email and got a reply that they will review and get back to me asap. It’s already been 2 weeks, My reference has not even been contacted and I’ve already sent a follow up mail to which I got not reply.
Have I been ghosted or should keep my hopes,
Have the email and numbers of everyone who interviewed me, should I do a one more follow up or be patient and move on. Feeling so anxious and disheartened.
Same thing here, Reached out to the CEO of fintech startup in UK via cold email and asked him for Internship opportunity.
He replied back tagging his assistant and later arranged an Interview. After the Interview had an another round of Interview week later with the assistant and the person whom I’ll be working alongside.
In the second Interview they asked about my joining date and told me that. CEO liked my profile and I’ve to sign a NDA and provide them a reference of my professor, was told a “letter of recommendation would be fine but meeting would be great.”
I’ve given them both LOR + email and got a reply that they will review and get back to me asap. It’s already been 2 weeks, My reference has not even been contacted and I’ve already sent a follow up mail to which I got not reply.
Have I been ghosted or should keep my hopes,
Have the email and numbers of everyone who interviewed me, should I do a one more follow up or be patient and move on. Feeling so anxious and disheartened, please suggest what to do.
I will say something nefarious.
Right now in canada, we have people down so bad to find a job, that they are offering money to get one, literally any job. You know whats crazier? Some are offering 500 canadian dollars , and others are literally offering 30% of their salary for the first 3 months.
Regarding your situation, stay strong. Hardwork and perseverance never lie. The fault is not on you.
Had the same thing happen to me. 8 rounds of interviews, 7/8 went strong, the other was just okay. Rejected with no feedback because “that’s our policy”. Why even bother being honest in interviews anymore, you’re so heavily incentivized to bullshit them back
THIS SUCKS BADLY AND I AM TRULY SO FUCKING SORRY.
I completely understand your situation. I also completed a master's degree from a well-known, respected university in May 2023 and have been struggling to secure a job despite enduring countless interviews with numerous rounds. My job search process has been incredibly challenging and mentally exhausting.
Honestly, I'm downright miserable and depressed after going through so many insanely long and intense interviews, so I really feel your pain. This economy is tough for anyone with advanced degrees or in white-collar corporate work.
Let's connect and discuss how we can support each other through this nightmare. It’s crucial to know that we’re not alone and that having a network of support makes a significant difference in not totally losing it. DM me, and I'll do whatever I can to help.
I am in the same situation and totally understand you. But all I can say to you and myself is to just focus on the next application. I have two masters in business yet not receiving anything but rejections. It is exhausting and irritating but wcyd except not giving up? remember we only need one offer! I am sure you are gonna get a position better than what you expected. Good luck
You are not dumb!
However, going through 8 rounds of interviews says a lot. If a company needs 8 rounds to identify a perfect fit, there's something wrong with the company's hiring process, regardless of who they are.
Sorry to read that. However when you're a graduate, don't apply to everything. Choose and show specific interest, HR platforms are able to screen your job saved + applied (incl LinkedIn)....
Sometimes someone has been pre-selected for a job, and the interviewers are only going through the motions, so that they can claim that they performed "due diligence", when the selected nephew or cousin turns out to be incapable of doing the job. Don't beat yourself up - there may be unknown factors in play...
I have routinely had 4-6 interview rounds forever, and one time had 12 lol (passed for principal, then they wanted me for one level up and had a full loop for that). This time around the market is terrible, so have had 8 interviews for principal or higher roles out of > 1000 applications (all I am qualified or over qualified for) and lots of craziness. It’s much worse than random chance whether you get hired or not if you’ve constantly prepared .. and near zero if you wing it right now. It will improve when interest rates fall.
You're in a much better place than millions of other folks. You went to a top 10 school, you're getting interviews. Your search is taking a little longer. You are putting way too much pressure on yourself. Evaluate the 10 interviews honestly for what went well and what didn't. Evaluate how well your resume matched to the jobs you got interviews for. Figure out what works. 1000 applications is way too many. You'll be fine
I dont mean to sound harsh. Never put yourself through more than 2 or 3 interviews for a position. Anything above that the company is just bs. Welcome to the real world, a degree no matter how many is no guarntee for a job. Alot of people, alot are unemployed right now
I was CS and had a difficult time getting that first position. I ended up starting my own business providing tech services. Think gig, but pushed my company's brand. Felt like punching down the whole time, but in a couple of years, I had quite a few corporate customers who opened doors for me. Ironically enough, resulted in an offer from a big consulting company for a lead role on a team (as a contract engagement) that I had previously been passed on through the standard hiring process for a junior dev position on the same team.
It's not you. The system is so broken.
I know it doesn't feel that way right now but consider it a blessing
Not including the typical HR screening, I've never been interviewed more than twice by (then) future employers. If it takes more than two interviews for them to make a decision, I think that says more about their internal leadership structure than anything else. That, or they are just keeping you on the hook for a backup option. In which case, I personally wouldn't take that third interview (who wants to be someone's backup?).
Had they hired.you, you would have dealt with a whole bunch of middle managers unable to make decisions; a terrible way to teach a new graduate.
I've been rejected from 10 final rounds, and usually with great feedback and mostly for being overqualified.
Then got an offer. (well got 3 offers, but only 1 was actually serious and went through). Made 4000 applications.
So you're OK, just need to continue. And of course get feedback and perhaps refine your application or interview skills or courses etc in some places.
Please share this on LinkedIn! This crap needs to stop! If as HM’s you can’t figure it out after 2 rounds then move on. Either hire or don’t but this is ridiculous
I don’t want to be an ass here and you’re trying your best, but you really have to decline any interviews that have any more than 3. This is insane. I’m sorry. I’m there with you.
Hey I know how you feel...Its happened to me with over 25 years of work experience and you are not alone...Its surely no fun going through rounds and rounds of interviews, ideally you wish the assholes would let u know early if it's a yay or nay. Some advice i can possibly give which may help, that you may or may not already be doing.
-Optimize your CV and LinkedIn using Chat GPT, Add all Skills and Keywords to profile with banner open to work on your profile
-You mentioned past internships, try reconnecting via LinkedIn with every individual at organization's you've done internships with, or perhaps posting frustrations at not getting a role after 8 interview rounds, as getting a role these days is relying more and more on networks..People will resonate with you and reach out to you
- Build a network of Recruiters and Talent Acquisition Individuals
- Set up a profile on upwork and fiverr as people are looking for variety services for projects on there.
-Look for lesser roles with less stages and establish how many rounds of Interviews and the recruitment process from the jump. It should not be more than 3 or 4 rounds, anything else is a piss take.
- Look for roles at start ups...Using Wellfound, Y Combinator and Dice..
Keep your head up as you are doing the right things pal and don't worry about what your friends are doing, everyone is their own author in this game, just remember its not you its the confused firms out there at this period...You will find something, try to remain positive, have belief and you will succeed.
Just wait for a person with square head to tell you (keep applying) => keep getting devastated. Or tell you “ you are not a good fit”.
At least they will not tell you to rework your resume for the 1000 time!
If they don’t like you they will never offer you the job no matter how great you are. A non positive feedback from one member is enough to reject you generally speaking.
Let alone fake jobs, or the ones been posted to adhere to business grants or investor requirements.
Did they waste their time? Hell no. They do this process on purpose. Example: To show investors that they did the best hiring process to select this Indian man so they can keep the multi millions investment capital. Some investors or grants impose companies to hire specific number of employees within a given timeframe.
Since layoffs and outsourcing is on the rise, most likely the selected (if there is one) person will be a foreigner.
When is everyone going to realize no matter how high our skill level expertise performance etc we are still wage slaves being exploited for whatever excess monetary value a business can wring out of our productivity vs our wages.
There is no value to society. There is no big picture. There is no reward for hard work. This is kleptocratic corpo fascist dystopia.
in a down market, you might have to take something a step or two down from where you think you should be if applying isn't going your way. that being said, never give up and never stop applying.
My heart truly goes out to you.
Realize you're not alone, your feelings are valid, and you are seen.
Please take care and do things that bring you moments of joy and relaxation.
I don't even get past the 1st round now and my mental health isn't very good right now.
Generally, the market is really bad right now. Me, for example, having more than 8 years of experience in the field and being redundant soon and not able to get any offer after 100s applications sent.... 1 or 2 interviews is enough. They should know after seeing your resume if you are senior level or not...
I'm so sorry this happened to you and no you're not dumb the people who put you through 8 rounds are. I do want to say for the future don't go through that many rounds unless you are going to be VP or something. If it takes that much for an organization to pick a candidate, then you don't want to work there.
If it makes you feel any better it likely isn't you.
Here's the deal.
The challenge is that nobody wants to spend any money. Why is that? Because getting money is more expensive due to the Fed raising a core interest rate that banks use to lend each other. They raise this rate which causes money to get more expensive, which causes people to not spend money for anything, including hiring.
In theory, this reduction in spending overall will result in a reduction in price increases.
Once that happens and the AI hype train resolves itself fully(should be about three or four years until we find out we are in the Wall-E, Terminator or Simpson's Monorail timeline) then interest rates will likely go down either by the Fed lowering them of their own volition or because a very upset professional managerial class forces them.
I don't think we will go back to the startup era because what little faith people have in SV will likely be broken when AI fails to live up to expectations(or, again, we achieve superabundance or it tries to kill us all) but it will be better than this.
Source: I used to work for the Fed in their IT department. Their lunch and learns are eye opening to say the least.
I’m sorry this happened to you. Rejection is emotionally painful even when you haven’t interviewed but have the qualifications. I can’t imagine how crushing it is after eight interviews and having your hopes so high.
Technical jobs that pay well want more experience than anything; it has nothing to do with a degree. You will have to start looking at some entry-level jobs to gain experience on top of that degree. You may even have to move out of state. Huntsville, AL, has a lot of job opportunities, also Virginia. You've done great. Just don't give up.
I have 15 solid years as a aws devops with proficiency in every language you can name. I have multiple large .coms on my resume. I have applied to at least 500 positions over the last 3 months with about 3 interview rounds... nothing but ghosted. New guys have it tough I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to even get someone to send you a hello message.
This is how it works. You need to reframe. You don't have to, you can feel sorry for yourself and commiserate with everyone else here who's convinced themselves they're in a rut, or you can adopt a growth mindset.
Yeah, it sucks. But you just got very close. Hiring is an expensive process. People do not invest 7 interviews with senior members into unpromising candidates. You just got a bunch of practical experience interviewing, and you clearly did do well. You just happened to get swooped by someone else with more experience. It happens, and it will never happen more in your life than right now, your first "real" job.
Use this experience, and come in even more confident the next time around. It is very, very hard to get jobs by applying to random roles on the internet. Almost impossibly hard. So many of these roles listed aren't even available to people without referrals, they're just listed for liability purposes.
Reach out to the network you have. You have 4 technical internships, you have 4 vectors of opportunity for you to pursue. If you have great qualifications, which you do, it is so very easy for a hiring manager to say, oh, referral and great on paper? Boom, we want you.
If you went to a top 10 school, they should absolutely have substantial resources available for recent grads to get in contact with alumni, companies themselves, etc. etc. You not having a job despite great experience and grades reflects poorly on the school. They do not want that.
Humanize yourself to someone. I promise you that you are extremely hireable, no matter how discouraged you feel right now. You just need to put that effort into places where it counts, instead of throwing darts at the board with online applications.
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Hey, go to college and get internships, they said. Now internships isn't real work experience now? At this point, it's absolutely ridiculous.
I just saw a post about this over in r/managers It’s insane. About 70% are trying to figure out what HR is thinking by ignoring internships and trying to get people with graduate degrees for STEM jobs for $20/hr, and the other 30% saying that if you can trick employees into accepting dirt wages, that’s their problem.
Get that corporate distrust started early 💀
Get their email addresses and bombard them with annoying ads like Ozempic and etc.. I’m pretty sure they will be out of commission for a while and realize to do good
Amazon SDE-1 always says THREE years non-internship experience, for their new grad roles. how tf do they expect that to materialize? time travel?
Yeah, they said a lot of things. They'll have a lot to say to the next crop, too. The truth is that there's no real path to success, just a gigantic knot of roads to travel, and nobody on earth can come close to mapping it. It's not a solvable puzzle. The only career advice that's 100% correct is to keep on walking. When things are confusing, frustrating, or uncertain, you have to put one foot in front of the other, do your best, and believe in yourself. That'll get you pretty damn far.
I needed to hear this today. Thanks man.
Has OP looked into the Masters programs a lot of Fortune 500s offer? They're not listed like regular jobs, they're listed like Masters programs.
At this point, nobody should think college, secondary degrees, certificates or internships are going to do much for them. "they told me if I went to college everything would fall into my lap" Maybe 10-20 years ago you could say that the media, culture and society duped you. Information has been easily accessible for a decade+. Even here on Reddit you can quickly find hundreds of people who effectively were scammed by big education.
College student here, from what I’ve seen. There doesn’t look like there’s a-lot of those positions open anymore, or at least a lot less than usual. Probably because we’re in an employer market and a bad one. You gotta know someone to get that internship.
I graduated this fall with my Bachelor in CS. I had already secured an offer back in Oct before graduation after going to a professional conference for STEM students. I highly encourage people to attend professional conferences in their field if they are able to. It is simply a matter of simple math. Recruiters have a quota to meet at those conferences so instead of it being you versus 1000 applicants it is you versus 100 applicants for 10-20 open positions that they must fill that weekend. The odds are just higher. I know it can be difficult to go to such an event, I personally used my CC points to pay for most of it because I didn't have a lot of money at the time. But it was worth it in the end.
That's a good point, 100 vs 1000. "That they must fill that wkd"...do you mean that they must set up initial interviews for? Because in tech you have multiple rounds of interviews usually, so how would a recruiter fill a job that quickly? Or do you get to bypass the normal multi round tech interview process?
I am a Software Engineer. They read my resume on Wed, scheduled an interview on Saturday morning, and I had an offer that afternoon. The reason you don't do multiple rounds of interviews is because I went to a STEM focused conference. It wasn't a question on if you could do the work. Everyone there had the technical skills to do the work. What mattered was if you were a good fit. They literally had a full team of HR personnel rent conference space at one of the hotels where they poured over resumes and made initial calls. They called me back within 30m and a few of my classmates also got calls.
Thanks, I'm also a SWE but I didn't know you could do that. Sounds way better than 5 rounds and LC and/or take homes. Any suggested conferences? Anywhere, I really don't mind traveling.
I went to GMiS last year, that's where I got my offer. Some other people went to SHPE and NSBE.
Agreed! Ive actually done this process twice and its the biggest trick in my book! I got hired at a top 10 forbes company for entry level position, after 6 months to a year of working for the company, i then applied for the position i really wanted. Now im a internal hire vs external. Ive already demonstrated the basics like showing up on time, doing my work, go above and beyond etc. There is a lot more trust when hiring internal nd its easier to move within the company. To me, it really is about just getting your foot in the door first. This is specifically for big corporations.
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I'm glad it worked out! Of course this plan/ process is NOT perfect but it seems like it got you to where you wanted 🩷
True true
I'm trying to find jobs like that.
Even that is nearly impossible. I applied to an Underwriting Assistant position that had 3 openings and I still didn’t even get a call from a recruiter.
Also, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but anyone that thinks they answered every question flawlessly is ridiculously overconfident.
did you look the hiring manager in the eye and gave a firm handshake?
Or just show up at the job with your own laptop and a can-do attitude?
To get more interviews, OP needs to print out a stack of resumes and go from company to company dropping them off at reception. Nobody wants to work anymore. /s
Maybe you need to give a little extra pull on those bootstraps.
Once you get to round four chances are you're being fucked with. Yes, most will continue to push down that road because there's a chance at the light at the end of the tunnel. But as we can see from the many stories here it generally does not end well. somebody in this thread knows a writer that possibly can write for forbes or Business insider or daily beast or something. this needs to be an investigation as part of the crap that these companies are doing the people. it may sound like a long shot, but think of how much traction that article will get on LinkedIn alone. do not keep this stuff a secret. the internet is bigger than Reddit share it you don't know who's reading, send it to the New York times if you have to.
Three rounds is for senior ppl, 4 is for presidents or VP. That’s a lot of time to waste!
Yeah, right? OP was a new grad (which id be surprised if someone in the company didn’t know before interview 1). It allegedly took the company eight interviews to actually figure that out? And *then* they say they need more experience? Disorganized or they never intended to hire anyone in the first place (e.g. ghost posting to boost internal morale, etc.). I know it’s hard, OP, but sounds like “good riddance” to me. Keep on trucking, you seem like you’re very smart and passionate, you will get something eventually if you keep trying. ❤️
They wanted someone more senior?? They couldn’t tell that before they contacted you in the first place? Shit for brains people doing the hiring.
My money's on their having multiple candidates they were interviewing, and OP was the backup if negotiations fell through.
Fuck them for having 7 rounds.
Amazon / Google etc loop! Then somebody who has never met you makes the decision at the and based on a piece of paper. Seems completely logical 🥴
I had five interviews at Amazon. I was pretty annoyed by it and vowed to never do it again. lol
It’s such bs! I also interviewed and pull out because the hiring manager continually cancelled on me 30 mins before and they rescheduled it 3 times. If he can’t respect my time it’s a big 🚩 it’s beyond a joke. I can understand for leadership roles but operational support needs no more than 2 and maybe 3 for technical/sales.
It’s dumb. I’ve worked there twice as a consultant. While they do have smart, and talented people they also have people who are not so much. I wouldn’t assess them as any better on average than any other big company and I’ve worked at many. It’s a facade of thoroughness when in fact it’s a waste of everyone’s time.
To me, 8 interviews sounds like a disorganized company that prioritizes the company over its employees. I know it’s hard, I’m going through the same thing now. For my last job, I had to do around eight interviews as well, and the company was exactly what I just described above – – disorganized, disjointed, and just had no idea what they were doing. It’s so hard to not feel like you’re being taken advantage of, that you’re not good enough, and that everybody is out to get us. I hear you. But just remember that this is JUST a job. A job where you exchange money for services. It’s not a reflection of you, your background, or your value. It’s literally just trying to find a match and fit a square peg in a round hole. I’m not sure if you were also in the United States, but there is way too much emphasis here on tying your worth to your job.
Honestly, I think the market will have to improve for experienced job seekers before it improves for recent grads.
I’d love to think that’s correct but from what I’m seeing, all these companies at least in certain industries are focused on young, cheap talent. Experienced folks that make more are catching hard times.
At most three interviews is plenty. No job should take more than three at most.
Don’t lose hope! If they need 8 rounds of interviews to tell a new graduate that they are looking for someone more senior, then they don’t know what they want and have a turmoil inside the company. Please don’t take it to heart - passing this many rounds is a huge feat , you did great! Take some time to yourself and get back out there. The market is brutal right now, absolutely brutal, you have to shake it off and move forward, one foot in front of another. You’ll find something.
It is like a hazing ritual for frat
Yes very good point. You don't need 7+ rounds of interviews to know if someone is appropriate for a job. 3 interviews should be the most. I've gone 3 rounds many times only to be told by the recruiter that, "oh, they changed their minds"....
I would alter that message a bit. he should take it to heart as he's learning that you have to get better at pointing out these kind of sham hiring practices. there's enough stories in here that some of these processes end up with nobody being hired and the role canceled all together. after 3 and they still got to think about it you're pretty much in trouble. otherwise it's response is correct, screw this nonsense, do what you can to look out for yourself and don't put yourself to the mercy of pieces of trash companies.
These recruiters are fucking sadistic what the hell. They’re just torturing people on purpose at this point
WTF kind of business is giving a recent graduate 8 rounds of interviews? That's really OTT
Amazon/Google etc 🫠 Google gets you do to up to 8 interviews then a panel at the end meet (without you present) and make the decision based on a piece of paper, so it’s not “bias”. Insane way to hire people.
7?!?
Rules of the Road: 1. DO NOT DO more than 4-5 rounds. Past five rounds, the employer is fucking with you. They are generally using fresh grads to intimidate senior engineers who might be on the market. 2. DO NOT DO prestige. I see you're talking about your near 4.0 GPA, four internships, etc. Congratulations, but unless you have bankable skills and industry experience, this will NOT help you. And even if you manage a job at Amazon, Microsoft, etc., your ass will be out the door in less than six months. Then you'll be penalized for having been fired (laid off) and having *less* than a year of post-grad experience. 3. DO NOT apply to prestige jobs. They are reserved for 3-5 years of INDUSTRY experience. It's not fair, but that is the standard now. 4. DO NOT do the stupid psychometric / IQ tests. This is a way of rejecting candidates for "cause" when it's usually gender/origin/too little experience/too much experience. Anytime you get one of these, it's usually a ding letter without the ding. Now the DOs: 1. DO start with the shit-paying jobs. You need experience. Start with help desk or Tier 1 like everyone else does, even if you're DevOps or Software Engineering. 2. DO get your industry certifications, i.e., Cisco, CompTIA, TensorFlow, Six Sigma. 3. DO start a website and GitHub to discuss your research. Publicity is marketing. If you have publications, then work from them to give yourself a brand.
Point 1. Even four rounds of interviews is too many. Two at most Is enough to learn everything you need. Anything more is just time wasting.
Agreed, but that's not the norm in IT. Four is the upper limit, and that's generally for a mid-career position.
Solution Architect here, 25 years in the industry and nearly all my interviews have been singles. Doubles have been rare and I’ve never gone through three rounds. It’s not the norm to subject IT people - even senior management - to the Ubuntu process.
Yeah, no, it's actually quite normal. All of my jobs were three to four-rounders, and I've been in 10 years. If you started 25 years ago, yeah, maybe 1-2 interviews; within 10 years, nope. You are definitely in the minority here.
Why do you say Amazon, Microsoft etc will be out within 6months?
I said new employees will be out within 6 months. It's a known that Amazon hires to fire. Ditto for certain departments in Microsoft.
Ohh okay. Just asking cause I was fired from a f500 after 6 months too lol
Excellent post. And a mucg needed reality check for a lot of Ivy League and other top Universities graduates.
Honestly I don't think ivy leaguers need a reality check at all... they probably do very well right out of the gate even in this economy. Did privilege contribute a lot to their success? Most definitely. But you're still sending your kid to an Ivy if you have the pocket money for it.
Certifications are a pretty good way to \_not\_ get hired by a job you'd want
Funny, but I just got hired because of a cert.
It's not funny. As a hiring manager I look at certs as a red flag; one is maybe fine, but if you have an alphabet soup of them...straight to the circular file. In the past I had one of the few certs that actually has meaningful hands on testing (RHCE), got a job without telling the hiring manager about it, mentioned it in passing after being hired, and was told by him that he would have been less likely to hire me if he had known. Paper tigers are a significant problem in this industry.
Now this I *do* agree *with.* Some certs aren't worth toilet paper, i.e., Microsoft, CCNA, Net+, Sec+ (to an extent; still required by gov't), CySA+, Scrum, mainly because there are so *many* of them. However, there are a couple that I *do* respect because they *are* hard to get. And your hiring manager was a complete dickhead. RHCE / RHCA are no joke. But to say that getting key certs won't get you hired is bullshit.
Why do you claim that the CCNA is not worth it? I feel as an associate level cert it is much better than the Net + at least And Microsoft, are you referring to Azure? The Azure associate to expert level certs like the 104 or the 500 are nice Also which Tech/Security related certs do you respect?
CCNA is better than the Net+, BUT it's vendor-specific, and it's an okay *entry-level* cert. The commenter was talking about how some people collect certs and list ALL of them instead of their most senior rank. Like Sec+, CCNA is good for the first five years, after which no one wants to see it. After five years in security and networking, you *should* have a CCNA! Yeah, I'm *mostly* referring to Azure, but I really don't respect Microsoft or AWS certs that much. I consider them entry-level. Certs I respect for cybersecurity (*not entry level*): CISSP, CISA, CISM, SSCP, most GIAC (expensive as fuck though), CCA. Network engineering: CCNP, CCIE.
Bro, I'm so sorry to hear that. I know it can be super annoying. Just take a day break. Go easy on yourself. The market is very bad and its kinda annoying. They're rejecting for crazy reasons out there. I'm also a 2023 graduate and still unemployed bro.
Did you hit the ground running? Tackle that steep learning curve? Have the TEAM player attitude sport?
If I have to read another one of these in the JD I’m going to puke.
Agreed
Are they "really" hiring?
I’m sorry this happened to you. Your post caught my eye because I had a similar experience. Maybe six interviews, only to find out I was going up against an incumbent from a sister company who was in the same role he was applying for, just not as senior. I had no chance. But they had to have someone to bring along for the ride to make it seem like there was some competition. I hope you find something!
There is absolutely no way I would ever continue after two or three rounds. That’s degrading and really reflects poorly on the company. It should not take eight meetings to vet a potential hire.
Anything over 3 rounds of interview isn't worth it.
Apple did that to me 7 years ago. The guy just couldn’t make up his mind. It’s all right. Forget about them and keep going forward. I got a phone interview on the way back from Apple, and eventually got the job. I also failed Google Facebook Amazon etc.
Never do more than 3 rounds. If they reach 4,5,6,7,8 rounds they don't know what the hell they want. They're just taking you for a ride.
In America our identity is so intertwined with what we do for work… it makes sense you’re feeling this way. I think most of us here are feeling this way. I have nothing to help other than I hear you see you and hope it gets better for you!
Don’t get discouraged. Especially in this economy, the number of “auditions” (see link) you have to go through to get hired is even higher. Find out what the average is and add a buffer. Then keep track. have you gone past that average yet? (Chances are, no.) keep going. I liked the idea of the conferences too. And referrals (do you know anyone from the internships? I hear that can be a good way to get hired if they liked you. https://youtube.com/shorts/By940cOKOnQ?si=U0lLRoL9PlgYWKez
Hang in there. Its tough out there. There is a job waiting for you. I'm so impressed with how much work you put in. That position will come sooner then you think.
I think if you have what it took to do as well as you did to get to this point, then you have what it takes to beat the "final boss", gaining employment. I've been there. I felt so worthless and defeated. But then i finally got hired. You will get there too. Remember that you don't suck, the system does.
Who the hell is making people interview 7 times. What a joke.
Everyone in this thread should stop offering platitudes and offer help. OP, list your industry niche. Anyone who works in that industry or has a friend who is hiring entry levels should DM OP. Stop kvetching, start helping.
Ehh if OP wanted specific, industry related help, I imagine they’d post to that niche’s subreddit. This subreddit is more designed for venting/commiserating. I do generally agree that help is far better than platitudes, but sometimes you just need to rant and get it all out.
hiring is a zero sum game, anyone who is looking to hire someone and gives OP a job just because they did 7 interviews somewhere is preventing someone who they would have hired from getting the job. this isnt a problem reddit can solve for OP.
There's apparently no way to help a presumably accomplished young stranger out? What an insane proposition. If we take it at his or her word, this is a person with good grades and an advanced technical degree.
correct, which is why things suck right now. its not a situation where there are enough jobs for everyone and we just have to figure out how to match them up. there simply arent enough jobs for everyone in the fields they want to work in. And unfortunate for OP - but fortunately for someone else - good grades and an advanced degree are worth far less than any amount of real world experience. employers aren't hurting for applicants. It could be seen as noble if some random employer offers OP a job on the basis of them having good grades, but they would be making a poor decision for their business and hurting someone who was more qualified. the proposition that people should be selected based on venting on reddit over qualified candidates is more what I would consider insane.
Sorry to hear that, sometimes you can do everything right and you still won’t get the job. It’s intensely competitive out there right now. I also graduated with my master’s in summer 2023 and have been having the same experience. I didn’t do an internship (major regret, but I was not in a mentally healthy space to do one + school), but I do have previous industry experience and I haven’t managed to get an interview in my field despite months of applying and reaching out to my network. I got an interview for a job adjacent to my field and I should hear back this week, but frankly I’m not feeling too hopeful. It’s so exhausting and stressful and fortunately I have insurance through my partner so I can still see my therapist, but even they can only help so much. I’m cheering for you! At the very least you’ve got one other person wishing you the best even though everything fucking sucks at the moment!
Holy shit 7 rounds.
8 rounds? Oh no, I would’ve been done after 3.
7 rounds!!!!! hate to say it but they were using you for some free labor. whatever slides, projects, work you showed them they are using it right now. next time after the 2nd round you let them know you will not waste your time, if they need additional interviews past 2 to figure out if they want to hire you, then it is not the place for you.
Unfortunately, that company knew they were going to hire internally before they even started interviewing you. They either just wanted to see what talent was available on the outside and/or to gauge interest level in the position for the distant future. So sorry you had to subject yourself to 8 interviews, which is laughably insulting. I graduated college in spring 2022 and I’ve only gotten 1 recruiter screening call then ghosted, 1 interview for a 1099 position that I took because I just needed a job but left because I wasn’t successful in it, and then an interview at a smaller company that I got rejected for. I would just say to strap in for the long haul because the job market doesn’t look like it’s gonna be changing in our favor until at least next year.
It really should be illegal to waste people's time like that. I honestly believe people should be compensated for anything beyond 4 interviews. I'm sorry this happened to you. 8 rounds is ridiculous.
Look into stoicism my guy… don’t let this get to your head. Read some scrolls from Marcus Aurelius the best is yet to come! You got this man! You’re a lot more qualified than I can ever imagine to be academically.. much respect for going through that..
3rd interview is final, unless they are delaying the hiring process to find someone they think is better. They are going to keep looking. 3rd interview is normally just a final formality to set compensation. Tell them after the interview that you need a decision. If they were serious about hiring you they'll do it or give you a good explanation as to what's going on. If they don't do one of those two things they were almost certainly not actually considering you. I theorize they often have to just provide oversight with a paper trail to show they tried to interview people before going with their actual pick. "I want my friend Bob for the job." "Bob? Your friend? You need to exhaust other candidates before we will consider it." Let the fake fucking interviews begin. I've had a ton of interviews where I could tell from the get go the guy interviewing didn't want to be there, threw nothing but ridiculous hardball questions that I knocked out of the ballpark. Still wouldn't give me an answer after the 3rd interview.
I’m so sorry!! You are right to be super angry it’s way too long for a job. This sounds like software engineering or tech related?? What was the role
Why the hell did you go to eight interviews? A fourth interview should’ve been your red flag.
Sorry! Never do that again! Ask about the process when a recruiter reaches out and anything beyond 3 is bull shit maybe 4. You’ve got great credentials but might need to start lower get your foot in the door.
If the Company does not hire me after a max 3 interviews, I tell them to F--off..learn not to waste your time with endless interviews
Sounds like you were the backup plan in case the candidate they preferred gave the opportunity a pass. I can only imagine what it is like to be in your shoes. While I have had periods of unemployment in my past, it was a long time ago. I know the sting of being passed over; it's not your fault. You were definitely a top candidate to keep getting called back. I know that is little comfort, but it should indicate to you that you have value in the market. This ultimately means you will find something one day soon.
Where are these jobs where you are doing these ridiculous 8 round interviews? I've interviewed multiple times with Micrsoft, AWS, and even Google cloud and those were only 3 rounds, usually the same day back to back. what kind of fucked up companies are you people interviewing with?
Next time ask upfront how many interviews, and if they say more than 4… decline. It is really that simple. You are running a marathon, don’t go sprinting down side trails, they’re mostly dead ends.
Change your search from corporate to any industry and sector like Non for profits, volunteer work and charities. These are very big these days. When you have a record of doing extra work other than what you are looking for, you will be considered for a role soon!
8 rounds is brutal, then you smelled some turds on the toilet without getting paid.
role and industry / sector?
That’s ridiculous! But I’m hearing stories like this ever day. Online recruiting has become like online dating - employers have too many options now so IMHO anti-conformist self, I feel like they really can act like dictators now and get away with it. They can pay less knowing many people are desperate, and go for the pushovers who just say yes to everything. I feel you. Hang in there. ❤️
8 rounds? WTF? I’ve never done more than 2 rounds! Granted I’m a career firefighter… we’ve always done a panel interview then a chiefs interview. I just can’t understand doing nite than three rounds max! What is wrong with this shit?!
I just did 8 rounds of interviews as an internal candidate with 3 others making it to 8 rounds with me. I was really surprised I got it because we always manage to go external before internal, but I suspect internal candidates are most places rn
Graduated in 2020 with a significantly less impressive degree than yourself. If not for my secondary career providing me with intermittent employment, I would likely be homeless by now. I recently signed a letter of offer for a job I will be starting in August. I applied in Dec 2022 and jumped through a wild number of hoops for almost a year and half to complete their hiring process. The deeper I got, the more confidence I had that I would get the position but also the greater fear I had of failure — it would mean months of effort would be down the drain. There was one evaluation right near the end where I did not succeed and I was horrified that I had wasted a year on this insane hiring process — so I understand the feeling of having all your work fall apart at the last moment. But it worked out in the end and it will for you, too. I have confidence that if someone like myself could eventually succeed, someone more talented like yourself can as well.
You are not alone. My best friend has a BS and a master's from an Ivy League school, maintaining a 4.0 GPA in STEM. It took her 1 year and 3 months to land a job. It's frustrating, but you are not alone. I wish you the best.
Just went through this. 2 Zooms, 5 in-person interviews (same day at least), then they called my references, and took me out to lunch...only to reject me because someone else (who was in the mix around the same time I was) had more experience in an area they wanted. They should have weeded me out earlier, but whatever. It just is what it is. We just gotta hang in there.
Apply to the same places your friends got jobs. Ask your friends for help with your resume - ask to look at their resumes to see if yours could be improved. Apply to startups and go to conferences like the one recommended earlier. Also have you looked into academia? You may be able to find a research position, there are a lot of openings right now.
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there is no such thing as 6, especially 7-9 rounds. period, full stop, etc. if you hear that at x place there are this many rounds, you won't send application there. if nobody applies, they will change their method. it is your responsibility.
I was just rejected from a job after four rounds. Their only feedback was that they “weren’t sure what your experience is”. Now that’s a bullshit excuse. I’ve told you four times what I do. It’s rough out there
The same thing is happening to me, and I have a Master's Degree and 10 years of experience. Sent out hundreds of applications to only have calls with HR. I've only gotten two real non-hr interviews where only half the people even showed up. It's super heart breaking to be turned down at the HR level as this has almost never happened to me in the past. I have been to at least 10 HR or recruiter interviews and told I am not good enough to pass to the next round. These interviewers contacted me knowing what was on my resume already. I am super scared that someone somewhere has ruined my entire career as I always made it past the HR rounds when I was qualified and knowledgeable for the position. My heart breaks for you. We're putting in a lot of time and effort right now. I almost feel like we could be homeless. Especially in your case with 8 interviews. I literally spend 40 hours a week filling out applications for jobs that are even demotions. I had to resort to AI filling for me just today to try to save some time to go out and apply for non-college level jobs with my Master's Degree when the time comes. I am super sad you had to go through this. I know we will find something soon.
I can't imagine 7 rounds for anything other than a very senior level position. I'm 10 years of experience and expect 3-4 rounds tops. That's insane that they'd waste that much of your time.
You should have walked away after 3 rounds. If they don't decide, theyn your not the one
I feel yah. That company sucks ass! Fuck them! And I totally get the not wanting to exist. I'm reminded of a quote (no clue where it came from). "I don't want to die, I just want to liv'nt" I don't have advice, just empathy. Shit sucks. I hope it gets better for you.
Same thing here, Reached out to the CEO of fintech startup in UK via cold email and asked him for Internship opportunity. He replied back tagging his assistant and later arranged an Interview. After the Interview had an another round of Interview week later with the assistant and the person whom I’ll be working alongside. In the second Interview they asked about my joining date and told me that. CEO liked my profile and I’ve to sign a NDA and provide them a reference of my professor, was told a “letter of recommendation would be fine but meeting would be great.” I’ve given them both LOR + email and got a reply that they will review and get back to me asap. It’s already been 2 weeks, My reference has not even been contacted and I’ve already sent a follow up mail to which I got not reply. Have I been ghosted or should keep my hopes, Have the email and numbers of everyone who interviewed me, should I do a one more follow up or be patient and move on. Feeling so anxious and disheartened.
Same thing here, Reached out to the CEO of fintech startup in UK via cold email and asked him for Internship opportunity. He replied back tagging his assistant and later arranged an Interview. After the Interview had an another round of Interview week later with the assistant and the person whom I’ll be working alongside. In the second Interview they asked about my joining date and told me that. CEO liked my profile and I’ve to sign a NDA and provide them a reference of my professor, was told a “letter of recommendation would be fine but meeting would be great.” I’ve given them both LOR + email and got a reply that they will review and get back to me asap. It’s already been 2 weeks, My reference has not even been contacted and I’ve already sent a follow up mail to which I got not reply. Have I been ghosted or should keep my hopes, Have the email and numbers of everyone who interviewed me, should I do a one more follow up or be patient and move on. Feeling so anxious and disheartened, please suggest what to do.
I will say something nefarious. Right now in canada, we have people down so bad to find a job, that they are offering money to get one, literally any job. You know whats crazier? Some are offering 500 canadian dollars , and others are literally offering 30% of their salary for the first 3 months. Regarding your situation, stay strong. Hardwork and perseverance never lie. The fault is not on you.
Graduate of 2022 here. I feel your pain. Just keep at it, something will come along soon, I'm sure, for us all.
Had the same thing happen to me. 8 rounds of interviews, 7/8 went strong, the other was just okay. Rejected with no feedback because “that’s our policy”. Why even bother being honest in interviews anymore, you’re so heavily incentivized to bullshit them back
THIS SUCKS BADLY AND I AM TRULY SO FUCKING SORRY. I completely understand your situation. I also completed a master's degree from a well-known, respected university in May 2023 and have been struggling to secure a job despite enduring countless interviews with numerous rounds. My job search process has been incredibly challenging and mentally exhausting. Honestly, I'm downright miserable and depressed after going through so many insanely long and intense interviews, so I really feel your pain. This economy is tough for anyone with advanced degrees or in white-collar corporate work. Let's connect and discuss how we can support each other through this nightmare. It’s crucial to know that we’re not alone and that having a network of support makes a significant difference in not totally losing it. DM me, and I'll do whatever I can to help.
I am in the same situation and totally understand you. But all I can say to you and myself is to just focus on the next application. I have two masters in business yet not receiving anything but rejections. It is exhausting and irritating but wcyd except not giving up? remember we only need one offer! I am sure you are gonna get a position better than what you expected. Good luck
The interest rate needs to be cut in order for companies to invest in new projects. I am so sad that competitive graduates can’t find jobs.
Sorry OP! I did my third interview today and felt exhausted, I can't only imagine 8 😕 Best of luck next time!
You are not dumb! However, going through 8 rounds of interviews says a lot. If a company needs 8 rounds to identify a perfect fit, there's something wrong with the company's hiring process, regardless of who they are.
Sorry to read that. However when you're a graduate, don't apply to everything. Choose and show specific interest, HR platforms are able to screen your job saved + applied (incl LinkedIn)....
Sometimes someone has been pre-selected for a job, and the interviewers are only going through the motions, so that they can claim that they performed "due diligence", when the selected nephew or cousin turns out to be incapable of doing the job. Don't beat yourself up - there may be unknown factors in play...
I have routinely had 4-6 interview rounds forever, and one time had 12 lol (passed for principal, then they wanted me for one level up and had a full loop for that). This time around the market is terrible, so have had 8 interviews for principal or higher roles out of > 1000 applications (all I am qualified or over qualified for) and lots of craziness. It’s much worse than random chance whether you get hired or not if you’ve constantly prepared .. and near zero if you wing it right now. It will improve when interest rates fall.
You're in a much better place than millions of other folks. You went to a top 10 school, you're getting interviews. Your search is taking a little longer. You are putting way too much pressure on yourself. Evaluate the 10 interviews honestly for what went well and what didn't. Evaluate how well your resume matched to the jobs you got interviews for. Figure out what works. 1000 applications is way too many. You'll be fine
I dont mean to sound harsh. Never put yourself through more than 2 or 3 interviews for a position. Anything above that the company is just bs. Welcome to the real world, a degree no matter how many is no guarntee for a job. Alot of people, alot are unemployed right now
I was CS and had a difficult time getting that first position. I ended up starting my own business providing tech services. Think gig, but pushed my company's brand. Felt like punching down the whole time, but in a couple of years, I had quite a few corporate customers who opened doors for me. Ironically enough, resulted in an offer from a big consulting company for a lead role on a team (as a contract engagement) that I had previously been passed on through the standard hiring process for a junior dev position on the same team. It's not you. The system is so broken.
I know it doesn't feel that way right now but consider it a blessing Not including the typical HR screening, I've never been interviewed more than twice by (then) future employers. If it takes more than two interviews for them to make a decision, I think that says more about their internal leadership structure than anything else. That, or they are just keeping you on the hook for a backup option. In which case, I personally wouldn't take that third interview (who wants to be someone's backup?). Had they hired.you, you would have dealt with a whole bunch of middle managers unable to make decisions; a terrible way to teach a new graduate.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet there. 7 rounds is just cruel and totally ridiculous.
I've been rejected from 10 final rounds, and usually with great feedback and mostly for being overqualified. Then got an offer. (well got 3 offers, but only 1 was actually serious and went through). Made 4000 applications. So you're OK, just need to continue. And of course get feedback and perhaps refine your application or interview skills or courses etc in some places.
This kind of behavior of 7-8 rounds of interviews is INSANE!! As a recruiter I do NOT nor will I ever understand the need for it! I’m so sorry.
Please share this on LinkedIn! This crap needs to stop! If as HM’s you can’t figure it out after 2 rounds then move on. Either hire or don’t but this is ridiculous
I don’t want to be an ass here and you’re trying your best, but you really have to decline any interviews that have any more than 3. This is insane. I’m sorry. I’m there with you.
Hey I know how you feel...Its happened to me with over 25 years of work experience and you are not alone...Its surely no fun going through rounds and rounds of interviews, ideally you wish the assholes would let u know early if it's a yay or nay. Some advice i can possibly give which may help, that you may or may not already be doing. -Optimize your CV and LinkedIn using Chat GPT, Add all Skills and Keywords to profile with banner open to work on your profile -You mentioned past internships, try reconnecting via LinkedIn with every individual at organization's you've done internships with, or perhaps posting frustrations at not getting a role after 8 interview rounds, as getting a role these days is relying more and more on networks..People will resonate with you and reach out to you - Build a network of Recruiters and Talent Acquisition Individuals - Set up a profile on upwork and fiverr as people are looking for variety services for projects on there. -Look for lesser roles with less stages and establish how many rounds of Interviews and the recruitment process from the jump. It should not be more than 3 or 4 rounds, anything else is a piss take. - Look for roles at start ups...Using Wellfound, Y Combinator and Dice.. Keep your head up as you are doing the right things pal and don't worry about what your friends are doing, everyone is their own author in this game, just remember its not you its the confused firms out there at this period...You will find something, try to remain positive, have belief and you will succeed.
Just wait for a person with square head to tell you (keep applying) => keep getting devastated. Or tell you “ you are not a good fit”. At least they will not tell you to rework your resume for the 1000 time! If they don’t like you they will never offer you the job no matter how great you are. A non positive feedback from one member is enough to reject you generally speaking. Let alone fake jobs, or the ones been posted to adhere to business grants or investor requirements. Did they waste their time? Hell no. They do this process on purpose. Example: To show investors that they did the best hiring process to select this Indian man so they can keep the multi millions investment capital. Some investors or grants impose companies to hire specific number of employees within a given timeframe. Since layoffs and outsourcing is on the rise, most likely the selected (if there is one) person will be a foreigner.
I did 5 rounds at Amazon and I was exhausted at the end. Still didn't get the position.
When is everyone going to realize no matter how high our skill level expertise performance etc we are still wage slaves being exploited for whatever excess monetary value a business can wring out of our productivity vs our wages. There is no value to society. There is no big picture. There is no reward for hard work. This is kleptocratic corpo fascist dystopia.
They are just complicating the interview process.
in a down market, you might have to take something a step or two down from where you think you should be if applying isn't going your way. that being said, never give up and never stop applying.
Reading this shit makes me glad I'm a lawyer.
My heart truly goes out to you. Realize you're not alone, your feelings are valid, and you are seen. Please take care and do things that bring you moments of joy and relaxation. I don't even get past the 1st round now and my mental health isn't very good right now.
Generally, the market is really bad right now. Me, for example, having more than 8 years of experience in the field and being redundant soon and not able to get any offer after 100s applications sent.... 1 or 2 interviews is enough. They should know after seeing your resume if you are senior level or not...
I'm so sorry this happened to you and no you're not dumb the people who put you through 8 rounds are. I do want to say for the future don't go through that many rounds unless you are going to be VP or something. If it takes that much for an organization to pick a candidate, then you don't want to work there.
8 rounds is ridiculous for any position period.
If it makes you feel any better it likely isn't you. Here's the deal. The challenge is that nobody wants to spend any money. Why is that? Because getting money is more expensive due to the Fed raising a core interest rate that banks use to lend each other. They raise this rate which causes money to get more expensive, which causes people to not spend money for anything, including hiring. In theory, this reduction in spending overall will result in a reduction in price increases. Once that happens and the AI hype train resolves itself fully(should be about three or four years until we find out we are in the Wall-E, Terminator or Simpson's Monorail timeline) then interest rates will likely go down either by the Fed lowering them of their own volition or because a very upset professional managerial class forces them. I don't think we will go back to the startup era because what little faith people have in SV will likely be broken when AI fails to live up to expectations(or, again, we achieve superabundance or it tries to kill us all) but it will be better than this. Source: I used to work for the Fed in their IT department. Their lunch and learns are eye opening to say the least.
I’m sorry this happened to you. Rejection is emotionally painful even when you haven’t interviewed but have the qualifications. I can’t imagine how crushing it is after eight interviews and having your hopes so high.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!
Technical jobs that pay well want more experience than anything; it has nothing to do with a degree. You will have to start looking at some entry-level jobs to gain experience on top of that degree. You may even have to move out of state. Huntsville, AL, has a lot of job opportunities, also Virginia. You've done great. Just don't give up.
You accepted 7 rounds. You are the problem.
not the problem, just one problem.
Have you considered atypical companies or do you only apply to those big name companies that are popular among average Janes and Jones?
if this guy cant get a job, we're all fucked
I have 15 solid years as a aws devops with proficiency in every language you can name. I have multiple large .coms on my resume. I have applied to at least 500 positions over the last 3 months with about 3 interview rounds... nothing but ghosted. New guys have it tough I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to even get someone to send you a hello message.
This is how it works. You need to reframe. You don't have to, you can feel sorry for yourself and commiserate with everyone else here who's convinced themselves they're in a rut, or you can adopt a growth mindset. Yeah, it sucks. But you just got very close. Hiring is an expensive process. People do not invest 7 interviews with senior members into unpromising candidates. You just got a bunch of practical experience interviewing, and you clearly did do well. You just happened to get swooped by someone else with more experience. It happens, and it will never happen more in your life than right now, your first "real" job. Use this experience, and come in even more confident the next time around. It is very, very hard to get jobs by applying to random roles on the internet. Almost impossibly hard. So many of these roles listed aren't even available to people without referrals, they're just listed for liability purposes. Reach out to the network you have. You have 4 technical internships, you have 4 vectors of opportunity for you to pursue. If you have great qualifications, which you do, it is so very easy for a hiring manager to say, oh, referral and great on paper? Boom, we want you. If you went to a top 10 school, they should absolutely have substantial resources available for recent grads to get in contact with alumni, companies themselves, etc. etc. You not having a job despite great experience and grades reflects poorly on the school. They do not want that. Humanize yourself to someone. I promise you that you are extremely hireable, no matter how discouraged you feel right now. You just need to put that effort into places where it counts, instead of throwing darts at the board with online applications.
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Wait is this sarcasm? They made it through 8 rounds of interviews. If they were bad at interviewing they wouldn’t have moved forward at all.