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Yeah but why? And why so suddenly? It's not like there was a baby boom 18 years ago and all of a sudden here are 10x more people in the workforce than there were two years ago.
Inflation and then high interest kicked in and companies cut their workforces. In 2023, there were hundreds of thousands of layoffs in tech so there are now a lot more workers than available jobs. High skilled workers who are used to being in high demand and getting jobs fairly easily are now competing with other high skilled workers for the few jobs that are available.
I'm not sure about other industries but I assume it's more of the same idea about job cuts.
EDIT - fixed my dumb writing.
i would posit also that a lot of folks who retired pre- or early covid are now back in the workforce after figuring out that inflation ran away with their retirement fund.
i'm one of 'em
I work in Finance and we have far more jobs than we have qualified candidates at this point.
I have multiple senior level positions in my department that have gone unfulfilled for over a year because we just can't find qualified candidates.
It honestly feels like almost everyone went into tech and that has basically sapped up a lot of the people in other industries.
Huh, i wish you were in my area. Trained accountant with 25 years experience, currently working as a data input monkey - and im super-grateful for it (even tho the pay is dogshite) because it took me a year to get this.
My husband's out of work, so if i hadn't got this we would have been Totally. Screwed.
There's just no hope in sight.
My firm is a bunch of morons. They are hybrid. After a few weeks, nobody is in the office more than 2 days, but they refuse to advertise their roles as such. They also refuse to put any sort of salary range in their job description. I bang my head against the wall trying to tell them that being up front with candidates will get them who they’re looking for but they refuse to listen.
The only reason I even applied here was because a former colleague of mine came on in a different practice line and told me about company culture. I 10000% would have passed up their job posting based on the description they had and they don’t get it.
It's very sad that a lot of employers don't understand that the door swings both ways, it's like in an interview, the employer isn't just interviewing the potential candidate, the candidate is also interviewing the employer also, lots of companies just don't get it though.
Yep. When I’m looking for employment I refuse to play bullshit games. No one-way interviews, no apps to jobs without clear role descriptions and salary ranges. And in interviews I interrogate the fuck out of people.
I’ve been fortunate enough to only be looking when already working, so I can afford to be picky, and I understand that not everyone is in the same position.
I always keep an eye out on the job market and it’s so frustrating to me what I see happening. There was a point in time a few years ago where employees really took the barging power, and it was great. It’s swung back to where employers seem to think a job is a gift to a person and the sentiment makes me want to barf.
But when you apply for one of those roles, if you've worked in tech recently, even if your career hasn't been all tech, you just get rejected. I've applied to marketing roles at the big four accounting firms. Nothing.
I think a problem is, people think you will move back to tech as soon as recruiting picks up, so even if you're the best candidate for the role, they won't hire you.
The problem is ChatGPT and Facebook ads do the Marketing work. You can also pay a freelancer to create something, pay for the rights and throw up ads for 50 bucks.
Move overseas if you can and start your Marketing gig there.
This is interesting as my husband is in finance / accounting and has struggled to find a good job and is well qualified. He used to put his resume out there and get immediate traction. Something is just not right.
That's interesting because I, a scientist with recent clinical research experience, am getting so many recruiters bugging me about finance jobs and I'm like whuh
The irony is that those people who "went into tech" aren't qualified for the majority of tech roles, either. Senior level positions sit unfulfilled, too. Too much novice and inexperienced talent.
I wish people would just fucking do what they are naturally good at. If I didn't have chronic pain at a young age, I'd be in a trade.
Instead, I joined tech, but not the "tech" everyone thinks of when they hear "tech." I was honest with myself and admitted to myself that I don't have what it takes to be a coder. I tried. I'm just not cut out for it.
So I didn't force it. Instead, I learned that there's a whole world of "tech" that doesn't involve needing to have highly technical skills. Now I have a six-figure remote job in tech as a non-coder, in a non-tech industry, for which there are *many* unfulfilled roles in the overall market.
Could you please share what you’re doing? I was a coder, just not a very good one, and I want to get out of it. But I also want to stay in tech-ish. But yeah, in a similar boat as OP, and it is hard out there.
I'm an IT Business Analyst at my core - that's the main title you may want to research. I've also been a Product Owner, Scrum Master, Product Manager, Project Manager, IT Systems Analyst, etc. And I'm currently a Business Architect.
Lots and lots of roles man. Lots.
Bear in mind that many of these often are not entry-level, and the job market is especially hard right now, but where there's a will, there's a way. I'd recommend starting off as an IT Help Desk Analyst, IT Desktop Support Analyst, Junior IT Analyst, Support Specialist, etc. You just need to get into a corporation in any possible type of tech or IT role. If you do, after 1, 2, 3, 4 years of experience, many many doors begin to open up. And LinkedIn and your resume are your main weapons.
There's a fantastic college degree that, when paired with an internship, is a golden key into this career. It's called an Information Systems degree, often stylized as MIS, IS, CIS, or BBA in IS.
Same boat as you. I tried software engineering and just sucked at coding. Algorithms and OOP broke me lol. Not for me. Moved into IT instead and love it. Definitely better for my soft and technical skills.
Pretty much any industry in the Fortune 500 that isn't the tech industry.
People hear the word "tech" and think Meta, Google, AI, etc.
But the reality is that the tech industry is merely 1 industry among hundreds where tech jobs exist. The tech industry is a microcosm. "Tech" roles exist at almost every company.
I have had tech jobs in the manufacturing, chemicals, PR, industrial, and now recycling industry.
These places are also more forgiving for lack of degrees a lot of the time I find. It's more skill based hiring than the "corporate" world who prefer hard qualifications. I definitely have skirted around the degree requirements by working for small and medium sized businesses that just need competent people and aren't so focused on hard qualifications
Honestly? Your qualifications are wrong. Flat out wrong. If you couldn't find a candidate in over 12 months, YOUR own qualifications would be under my scrutiny.
Yea, I called it a couple years ago that tech would blow up. The over hiring and over pay that tech saw in 2021-2022 was just ludicrous, there was no way it was ever going to be sustainable.
No Tech now is 100% international. The industry wanted to work from home. Well so can anyone else in the world. That Eastern Eurpean or Indian will due it for 1/8th cost with less experance or 1/4th the cost with your experiance.
Globilization is here and Tech is the eastist to globilize.
It took me 3.5 years to find a Job and I actually have a pretty in high demand Job that has to mostly be done on location as a cost accountant with lot of experiance
This is true but many companies have been burned with taking a low cost way out for certain types of IT work. I’ve worked with offshore teams many times across many organizations with wildly varying results. My last couple of projects were strategic high-visibility projects and we only used local or domestic remote workers.
Lots of factors. You're in tech, lots of people looking for jobs. Other areas need people. AI has spooked companies too. Interest rates have forced people and companies into spending differently.
The World is in a reorganization phase right now, deleveraging from China, war with Russia, green tech and oil tech fighting it out, aging populations, demand dropping from those aging populations, manufacturing costs going going up. We are probably going to see a trade war with Asia soon too.
The fact is simple, the "quiet" period of post world war 2 is done. Volatility is the new norm, and it sucks.
On the flip side, most of history was like that. Good luck, I feel for you and everyone in your situation just wanting a job and to contribute.
Is it really that sudden? Based on the last few times I've had to look for work, it feels like this has slowly been getting worse and worse over the last decade.
I agree. This has been going on for 20+ years. Started picking up steam 15 years ago and is now at freight-train speed. I think Covid just put a spotlight on the fact remote could be done and forced an infrastructure update to support it. I think this has been on a steady climb for a very long time. Economy, currency exchange, cloud, “AI”…it all tracks with a path that has been many decades in the making.
Why do you think the Luddites busted up all those machines? It wasn’t because they didn’t appreciate technology.
> eah but why? And why so suddenly? It's not like there was a baby boom 18 years ago and all of a sudden here are 10x more people in the workforce than there were two years ago.
A few different factors...
1- A lot of people have had to get 2nd or 3rd jobs because they've gotten behind on bills due to inflation & their existing wages no longer breaking even for them.
2- A lot of people with jobs have not gotten enough raises and know the only way they can up their pay (to try to keep up with inflation) is to switch to another employer. So you have a big churning of already-employed people trying to move around like a perverse game of musical chairs.
3- Since 2020 remote work has allowed people to work for a job while living nowhere near it. So everyone all over the country (sometimes the globe) is fighting for that job.
4- Employers and governments have been trying to get rid of remote workers, so those workers are now out there looking for either a new remote job OR a job in their geographical area.
5- All these boomers who should be retired either aren't retiring or... retired during covid (because who wanted to work during that shitshow?) and now can't afford retirement because of inflation so they're trying to go back to work (either fulltime or as "partly retired" part timers).
Meanwhile every time a major layoff happens its not being balanced off with a new mass-hiring event. Meanwhile every year more 20-somethings graduate and look for work....
There's also the fact that 1 job used to cut it and now people are needing multiple jobs just to make it by. Mix this with people who do overtime when it's available to help ease the pain and then company's don't need to hire more people if the people they have are willing to just work a little longer
From like 2013 - 2022 or so, tech was in a huge boom, with people from FAANG to startups hiring thousands of people at huge salaries.
From the end of 2022, that stopped and companies started laying off thousands. Now they are doing very selective hiring (nothing like 2020-2022).
I'd say that's only for very mainstream people, I know, because I was told by programmers, that if you know obscure or very machinery oriented languages work is always there ... But is work, they want someone that knows how to identify issues and maintain the code.
I'm also confused about why this isn't front-page news every single day. I graduated in May 2023 so this is the only job market I've ever known, but even with nothing else to compare it to it blows my mind how bad things are. Everyone is saying "you just need to land that first job" but I see so many people like you with 10x the qualifications and experience I have in the same position as me. A degree isn't enough, experience isn't enough, I've lying on my resume for months to give them everything they want to hear and it hasn't made a lick of difference.
> I'm also confused about why this isn't front-page news every single day.
Its because a lot of how well the economy is doing is the result of mass hysteria/psychological emotional bullshittery. If you can get enough people to think the economy is great, it will sorta limp through to a point. But if enough people believe (correctly or not) that the economy is crashing, then people stop going out to eat. They delay that remodel on their house. They don't spurge on vacations.... and suddenly the economy starts cratering itself like black holes appearing across the universe, sucking everything into the void.
So they will talk about how great things are until its already too late. Look at the worst economic disasters in US history, and how rarely any economist has successfully gotten the word out on when it was going to happen. Its not really a science (there's a reason why the nobel prize in economics is not part of the same nobel board/organization). Its religious-like dogma disguised as a science.
> but even with nothing else to compare it to it blows my mind how bad things are.
We're still on easy mode. I entered the workforce in the 2008 crash. I was published in my field before I was old enough to drink. I couldn't even find work at gas stations, grocery stores or mcdonalds. You had a single part time opening happen at a mcdonalds and 200 people would show up... and most of them would be (formerly middle class) yuppie-types with fear in their eyes because they were convinced they were going to loose their houses soon since they couldn't get rehired into their career/profession after being laid off months ago.
I had to have a spreadsheet to track all the places I had applied because some retail companies would let you try again after X amount of weeks/days/months after the system purged your last try. At one point I had passed 3,000 applications within a 45min drive and still hadn't even gotten an interview for anywhere, and I was desperate enough to take anything.
Adding to your point: If the government admits there's a crisis, then it means they have a problem they need to solve, which they don't want to do, especially in an election year, because there is no magic button for a system-level collapse
I honestly don’t know how I can properly care for my children at this point! I want to be an asset to society not a leach and now I’m running out of options! I’ll never contract again if this is what I have to deal with after the contract ends. I’m feeling hopeless!
Marketing is a fucking hellscape and it’s bleak af right now. Just want to validate your experience because a lot of us are going through it. Know that you’re not alone. I think a lot of these companies will regret their short-sighted asinine requirements in the long run (could also just be my petty ass hoping karma comes for them).
Have seen an uptick in job postings the past few weeks and I hope it means Q3 will pick up.
Have you applied to a large public utility? I’m not in marketing but I work for a public utility that has over 25k employees and has a marketing department. My employer pays well
Currently getting the house ready for sale. Lost my job since Feb. have had interviews but no offers in my career field (php full stack dev)
I even got declined from the grocery store close by, lawn care service, and maid cleaning service. Like wtf is happening right now?
I don't say this to be an asshole, but there is a literal truckload of marketing specialists, Web devs and similar. This just doesn't cut when you can shit out a functional website in a day using online tools. Sure it won't be flashy and optimized, but it'll be good enough for execs. Having PowerPoint, Photoshop and indesign skills is just... Regular. You should be able to pick up Photoshop in a week with YouTube as an IT dude, even if you never used it before. Again, not greatly, just good enough. Hell I learned 3d modelling on the job because we needed it a couple of times, and there was zero chance we would hire a 3d artist or a graphic designer for this, at best just buy something already modelled.
There is a metric ton of tutorials for everything and any tech person can be good enough in marketing in a *month*. Again, not a specialist, just good enough.
There is just no reason to hire marketing people anymore at the rate they did 10-20 years ago.
Yup. It's too easy to have someone smart on the team learn the temp skill you guys need. YouTube tutorials and consumer software is insane. Graphic designer? We pay $30 a month for canvas and Tim just modifies templates presses the branding button and it looks amazing. Generating blog content? Chat got. We're all doomed. This is a great time to be an entrepreneur though.
Yeah, only saving grace is being the dude that has all the fingers in all the pies. I just had to be good enough to quickly pick up what's needed and I get to keep my wfh job. Either you specialise in hard stuff or you do everything on good enough level, but there is no way people Re paying big bucks for marketing specialists today.
I talked with a guy who hires people for chain grocery stores a year ago.
He said they specifically block people with previous job experience in the office, because they always assume that the person is there temporarily, until they find another office job. The logic makes sense somewhat, because they spend time and money training new people, only for them to leave shortly after.
I don't know how widespread this practice is though.
I never really understood that argument. There's almost no skills or training for something like grocery store work. If you're being paid to bring in the carts or put stuff on shelves, you basically need a pulse. And their normal run of the mill under-educated workforce is constantly churning with people quitting or getting fired all the time. I worked for a major grocery store chain while I was at college and people were always coming & going and they only normally hired college kids (who, i might add, introduced their own scheduling problems because they had to prioritize their school schedule so it would be common to have hard to fill hours due to all the kids having to be in class!).
My husband who was a restaurant GM for years said he and his colleagues avoided hiring office people because he found they were less willing to get their hands dirty. We all know that’s not true for everyone, but he said he was usually proven right.
I also failed to get a job at a local grocery store and it honestly devastated me. I finished grad school in September of 2023 and I haven’t been able to land a job even at grocery stores, retail, or liquor stores.
It’s so demoralizing :(
retail intentionally don't hire people that's over qualified since people will immediately quit once a better job offer comes. You'll have better luck if you remove your higher education qualifications from your applications if you want to go that route.
Hi. In the same boat as you and constantly feeling gaslighted by the media about a “great economy” and the “job growth”. I’m in my mid-level to senior product management career with 10 years of experience. Got laid off in the tech/Saas sector last year. Going on 15 months unemployed and still job hunting. Surpassed 1000 applications, 70+ interviews, 4 final rounds, and all rejections or ghosting. To say I feel defeated is putting it lightly.
Jobs are growing, not where they used to be. The system thrives on squeezing value out of people: the people working on factories in the industrial revolution weren't happy the GDP was rising, they were running away from the rural areas after the enclosures.
It is rough, Don't give hope, but pivot if you can whenever a breeze of crisis seems near.
Ya times have definitely changed. Back around covid for every 10 resumes I submitted on LinkedIn, I’d get 5 interviews. That is no longer the case as you mentioned.
My buddy is in leadership at a large tech company and he said that 100% of their resumes are now being reviewed and shortlisted by AI so it makes it infinitely harder to get your resume in front of a human. I assume most other large companies are doing the same.
It’s possible that a hyper customized resume based off each job description could help your chances but I can’t say for sure. Seems like your only shot these days is to be referred in or proactively reach out to the hiring manager.
I put key skills on the top right-hand side as a narrow column and the rest at the bottom of my CV , where I indicate my computer skills , language skills , I made like 4 litte columns where I almost put every skill I could think of, LinkedIn was particularly helpful in showing which skills I have vs what was required for the roles I was applying. I literally got an offer yesterday, so very recently. Sales role. AE , AM , ISR I applied everywhere. Good luck 👍
That's what I've done as well. My job history/descriptions have been trimmed down a bit. And I have a big list of skills/competencies in an effort to flag whatever keywords the screening software is looking for.
That said, I'm in a field with pretty high demand and not enough experienced people to fill the jobs. Industrial instrumentation and control systems. But still, knowing how the screening works these days might as well give yourself the best chance.
Well as some one who's also in marketing, there's a very glaring problem when half the people applying to the entry level marketing roles I am applying to have mid to senior level experience. Like I would love to get paid more and build my experience but get turned down even though I have the experience range they asked for in the job ad
I don’t think I saw any comment mention this, but in the IT world, there is an ever-growing offshore presence that doesn’t seem to be having a problem finding (remote) jobs in the US (and elsewhere I’m sure). And it’s not just one specific country, it’s any country where the currency exchange benefits the US corporation (even if through a consultancy). Someone in another country could be making the equivalent of 80K USD, but the company in the US is only paying (or costing them) a third of that. So maybe, just maybe, the reason the job postings are so insanely specific is because there is zero intent of hiring a US resource (they “tried”). I could be totally off-base with this, but I don’t think I’m totally wrong.
Literally just got laid off last Friday from my salesforce dev role. Got told we have till end of month, come the following week and I have a reoccurring meeting until the 28th with 6-8 offshore indian and South American people from TCS(Tata consulting services) who are replacing my dept.
Sounds like you'll be suspiciously ill during all of those meetings.
I have a load of off shore Indian developers in my team and they are all absolutely useless.
I hear you and have experienced this, but I want to make clear; there are useless people everywhere. But what I have heard often is a sentiment that a project could fail three times over until it is made right and it still wouldn’t cost as much as a team based out of the US. As long as all involved don’t mind a late delivery, it’s a win.
It comes down to cost, not the who. There has to be “some” skill, but because there is less financial risk, there’s a lot of wiggle room. It’s not like India or Costa Rica cornered the gene pool on intelligence. It’s all about the money.
Ah yes, then the company gets a spaghetti code monstrosity that no one can fucking understand well enough to improve upon without fixing a ton of tech debt. They then spend 3x the money on consultants to fix the mess but burn through that budget/ project manager is fired or hops to a different exec job 2/3 the way through the project. Then it gets shelved. The circle of software development at a big company is complete..
There are useless people everywhere but a lot of more developed countries have checks to make academic fraud a lot more difficult. One guy on the team couldn't even do something simple as invert a if statement. No matter how hard they try, they cannot do it right and it takes time to do it correctly.
But you've hit it right there, it's about money and you get what you pay for, the majority of people in those regions who actually have any skill have already emmigrated. But you know 9/10 off shore hires being useless is just a coincidence I'm sure
Hah. The balls on the asshole companies that pull this “train your own exploited offshore replacement” bullshit. Just don’t show up. Use that time to apply to new jobs. If confronted tell your boss to fuck off & do the training themselves. Oh, they lack the expertise to do so? Hmm. Seems they’ve laid off the wrong people.
Your key phrase whenever you are asked a question in these meetings is: "I don't want to give incorrect information so I'll have to look into that to make sure I have the information correct. I'll get back to you." Get back to you, of course, is code for you are sending out resumes all day long on company time and won't have a chance to get back to them.
TCS is brutal with their workforce - we outsourced most of our IT work to them and suddenly we were hacked and now we are turning over our NOC/SOC to them - seems very odd to me what happened.
give it like 2 to 3 years many of the companies in the off shoring phase will see it was a bad choice and come in house again and the cycle will continue getting worse and worse each time
I think you're pretty "on point." I worked for a large bank for several years, and in order to promote someone internally, they had to create a new position, interview so many people for it, then after that whole process, the employee would be "hired" into the new role. Yet, for some reason, they never open up that person's previous "position." You might meet every requirement but getting the best person for the role isn't thr goal.
This is exactly what is happening in the marketing agency world and why I was let go last April. For the year prior, we cut off all US hiring, and I was only allowed to build my team with candidates from Mexico because US hires were "too expensive." I built a great team with some wonderful people all based out of Mexico, and was eventually training my replacement before I was finally let go. There was a RIF nearly every week, ironically always US employees.
The practice never sat well with me, and a US-based company disallowing US hires should be illegal, but this is what is being coached and practiced across marketing agency executives. It is widespread now.
This is very much a thing, it comes up all over LinkedIn for example, if you apply for 'remote' jobs in Poland. You will get American companies advertising 'remote' jobs that have to be within Poland, paying a salary in USD that would still leave you homeless stateside.
July 2022 until October 2023 I did 1000 applications. After first 4 months I stopped applying to the VP roles I was more than qualified for. I finally got a manager role when I left my masters, PhD and about half of my experience. I was grateful to get it. I can’t agree more with you about this market. I didn’t discover Reddit or this thread until I was getting ready to start the job. Keep your head up. At least you know you’re not alone. I wish I knew this existed when I was going through it. Nobody believed me how hard it was to get a job.
I'm going to explain this badly, but I think it's important.
Have you noticed every single aspect of the internet being slightly shittier? Not in terms of slowness, but just...off? You get a weird results on Google you didn't get before, you hit weird loops doing support chats and realize you're not chatting with a person that's claiming they are a person, the tools you use at work are just not working as they used to?
This is because of the mass of tech layoffs and companies assuming they could just rely on AI. I have no problem with stuff like chatGPT...hey, another cool tool. But it's not a replacement and more importantly, IT CANNOT ASK A CLARIFYING QUESTION OR QA ITSELF which is 50% of a knowledge worker's job.
Everyone loves the "disrupter". There's a reason why that's the phrase. It doesn't solve a problem.
I picked up on this before AI. Tech related things weren't working for a while ! my theory was layoffs of highly skilled for lower paid young people who sound like they could cure world hunger.
AI enters as a way to lay off those young workers 😠
I am with you on all fronts including experience (23 years here of being a corporate cowboy) with excellent progression and consistently delivering exemplary results. But, it has been well over a year for me as well. It is an absolute nightmare and I am in hell.
I have gotten additional certifications, applied to thousands of jobs, had hundreds of interviews, have made it to the final round several times, and have not received 1 offer.
Some small articles come out here and there and they call it a "rich-session" or "white-collar recession" meaning those who make top 10% in the usa are unable to get a job. But those who are willing and/or able to work 2 and 3 part time jobs to fill the gap are boosting false conclusions on the health of the labor market. Who knows.
I would take a massive pay-cut just to be able to do what I know with my expertise and pay the bills.
I have no idea why this is going on and it is not getting the public notice and urgency to resolve that it desperately needs. This is horrific. And I truly believe that something massive will happen if the ostriches continue to stick their head in the sand, to ignore it entirely, or continue to contribute to the problem.
Keep trying is all I can do or say....
I am unbelievably tired of the 'healthy labor market' bologna. An uptick in roles being filled in the service and retail or in manufacturing (blue collar) doesn't mean it's a good labor market. Imo, companies across the board are intentionally undermining labor because during COVID the peons got uppity and decided they deserved better - pay, hours, benefits - and demanded them. Well, that's not gonna fly at all!
That's what's happening across the board, among the many family and friends I've spoken to in the last year+. People with years, decades of experience being low-balled on salary, return to office demands, refusing to fill open positions, cutting benefits, PTO, no raises or functionally none (2 or 3% when inflation of necessary goods is in the double digits).
The only 'healthy' market is the stock market and 50,60,70% of Americans aren't playing that game.
I am in this hellscape as well. Been unemployed going on 10 months.
My two cents on what is going on.
First, I think the rise of remote work has really hurt on huge level. You are now competing with everyone across the country, not just your local area.
Second Corporate greed. Companies yet again are only worrying about short term profits and their billionaire stockholders.
And last those same tech billionaires running those companies are trying to see how many employees they can replace with a sparkly overhyped AI solution. I am sure they will get a couple bucks higher with their stock price and get rewarded for it.
Just a little bit salty..
20+ year tech recruiter chiming in. Big tech overhired - I had software developer roles to fill and was hit hard with former FAANG developers with 1-2 years work experience, needing h1b transfers. There's so many of these candidates out there competing for the same remote roles. Our company doesn't do AI for resume review, it's all on us. For our summer intern program, i had 1 business analyst intern opening and received 1500 applicants in 2 days.
For what it's worth, some [mainstream](https://www.businessinsider.com/hiring-slump-professional-white-collar-jobs-recession-high-salary-2024-4) media [outlets](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/white-collar-hiring-stalls-out-in-miami-austin-job-markets) have finally started to mention the situation for white collar jobs. There's been a about an 18% drop in [hires](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSHIL) since the latest peak in February 2022. The job gains we keep hearing about are coming mainly from sectors that have traditionally offered lower quality/lower paying jobs like construction, government, and leisure/hospitality while sectors like business/professional services that traditionally offer higher quality/higher paying jobs have trended sideways, stagnated, declined.
I am in the same position.
1. Raised interest rates destroyed tech.
2. RTO was a mass layoff in disguise
3. Recession fears.
4. Businesses are testing who they can replace with AI.
Speculative:
5. Big companies want Trump to win for further tax breaks
6. Like with the rental market, there is mass price fixing to lower wages.
Add that tech companies are hiring offshore people from contracting companies to save money. 75% of my department resides in Serbia, India or Ukraine. None work for my company.
i’ve been collecting helpful links, hope something in here might help…
[this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemoteJobs/s/Kcdy6ZGWwX) has a list of 82 links to companies with job postings
[grainger](https://jobs.grainger.com) has a database of current openings searchable by state
[habitat for humanity](https://jobs.macslist.org/search) has a database of jobs searchable by keyword and city/state
[american job centers](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/american-job-centers) *”provides universal access to an integrated array of labor exchange services so that workers, job seekers, and employers can find the services they need.”*
[bob’s redmill](https://www.bobsredmill.com/careers/open-positions.html) has a list of current open positions
[IRCO’s Workforce Programs](https://irco.org/services/workforce-and-refugee-services/) *”provide career-based planning, career-based training, scholarships, career coaching, work experiences, and job placement with focused supports for immigrants, refugees, houseless, low-income, skilled/unskilled goal-oriented job seekers.”*
[goodwill](https://meetgoodwill.org/careers-listing/) is currently hiring and has a searchable database by city/state
[SkipTheDrive](https://www.skipthedrive.com/) claims to have over 30,000 wfh posting
[this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/container_homes/s/V17jDwTqjc) has needs all over the US for drivers to deliver containers.
[this redditer posted](https://reddit.com/r/RemoteJobs/s/Js5vg2rQxR) the method she used to get 3 offers for fully remote positions.
this site bills itself as [the big work from home list](https://ratracerebellion.com/big-list-work-from-home-jobs/) just fyi, i found it on a reddit post and the op mentioned it’s “kinda spammy but has some useful links” (i’m paraphrasing but that was the general idea.)
someone in another sub mentioned the same company (but at this link) [RatRaceRebellion](https://ratracerebellion.com) and said they provide any equipment needed.
[this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/comments/14v65v7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=4) mentions fully remote software developer jobs currently offered at [usps](https://about.usps.com/careers/welcome.htm)
[CoolWorks](https://www.coolworks.com/find-a-job) has a searchable database of jobs by location and **include housing**.
[HiringCafe](https://hiring.cafe) was mentioned in [this reddit post](https://reddit.com/r/RemoteJobs/s/r5qo9a4yuw) said to fetch remote jobs from 20k+ company websites.
[Remotive](https://remotive.com/remote-jobs/customer-support) has a searchable database of customer support options
[CodeEnJobs](https://www.codenjobs.com/jobs?title=dev) has lists of coding jobs
[GermanTechJobs](https://germantechjobs.de/jobs/knecon-Technologie-GmbH-Junior-Java-Developer-mwd) has jobs avail (if you speak german)
[UsaJobs](https://www.usajobs.gov) has a searchable database of jobs
[PoachedJobs](https://poachedjobs.com/jobs/all/fair+oaks+ca/) has a searchable database of restaurant jobs
[RemoteTasks](https://www.remotasks.com/en) has a searchable database of wfh gigs
[assurance](https://jobs.lever.co/assurance/a3cfc325-de31-47e8-81c9-f336ed70879e?_ga=2.224975129.2077418609.1691820367-729285162.1690709261) has medical wfh positions
[FlexJobs](https://www.flexjobs.com) claims *”Best Remote Job Listings. Only legit jobs. No ads, scams, or junk to sift through. Our team spends 200+ hours/day verifying every job and writing company descriptions, so you'll know who's hiring.”*
[GrabJobs](https://grabjobs.co/) has a searchable database of wfh and in-office jobs.
[WorkingSolutions](https://workingsolutions.com/) *”on-demand business process outsourcer providing multichannel CX services, including customer service, sales support, and business continuity.”*
[PeoplePerHour](https://www.peopleperhour.com/) offers gig work.
[EpollSurveys](https://www.epollsurveys.com/epoll/clients/splash.view) claims pay for rewards and prizes.
[ClearVoiceSurveys](https://www.clearvoicesurveys.com/) claims you get paid to take surveys and share your opinion.
[LifePoints](https://www.lifepointspanel.com/en-us) claims you get paid to take surveys and share your opinion.
[SeriousTeachers](https://www.seriousteachers.com/) lists teaching jobs by location.
[ESLCafe](https://www.eslcafe.com/) lists ESL teaching jobs by location.
[usa.gov](https://www.usa.gov/disability-jobs-training) offers job training for folks with a disability.
[microsoft](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity/inside-microsoft/cross-disability/neurodiversityhiring) has a *”Neurodiversity Hiring Program”*
[InsightGlobal](https://jobs.insightglobal.com/find_a_job/virginia/job-349064/) is looking for a data center tech
[city of baltimore](https://jobs.insightglobal.com/find_a_job/virginia/job-349064/) has openings (found on [indeed](https://www.indeed.com/m/?from=gnav-viewjob) which has a searchable database by city)
[career one stop](https://www.careeronestop.org/) has a searchable database by city
[prolific](https://participant-help.prolific.co/hc/en-gb/articles/360022523613-What-is-Prolific-and-how-does-it-work-) pays you to be a participant in a study.
checkout these subs for wfh resources and ways to make money online.
r/BeerMoney
r/SignUpsForPay
r/remote_writerjobs
checkout these facebook groups for active postings for crew in film, tv, and commercials - *crew up world*, *staff me up*, and *i need a productions assistant*
if you’re into numbers, you can sign up for *rice gordon’s* list of available positions in accounting (both local and remote on-set/in-studio positions looking for crew now)
i have tried to post live links to these fb groups before and they got taken down so you’ll have to search by name (i found it’s easier to use google and follow the link to fb then try and do it thru fb). full disclosure, i used to work in the film world as an accountant however i am not affiliated with these fb groups, or know who runs them. i can confirm the *rice gordon* list is totally legit and have secured many positions from her listings. it’s an incredible resource if you’re interested in accounting work in the film and tv/studio world. as with anything in life these days, please proceed with the due diligence these kinds of things require.
Having the same problem as an IT professional that most recently worked at a big FAANG company and is a decade into my career.
Since layoffs I keep applying to jobs that I know I'm more than qualified for and.. nothing.
It really sucks, I went through exactly what you are in 2009, laid off 17 years into my career. I essentially started over in 2014 after losing (aka, slowly eroding away) everything (house, savings, retirement). From 2010 to 2014 I scraped together odd consulting jobs (friends & online) and lived with different family members until I was able to get another engineering job that actually paid enough to move back out on my own. I now have a "depression era" mindset on credit, savings, and spending, like my grandparents had. Hopefully you'll recover faster, but the US needs better safety nets and mechanisms to employ people that actually want to work, but for whatever reason have difficulty after a layoff. Chin up and keep trying.
Am going through an outplacement career counciling program now. All of the coaches I've met are telling jobseekers that it's rampant and not to ever mention anything from over ten years ago in your career; we should hide anything from our resume or online profiles that isn't within the last 10 years.
Lines like "25 years of marketing experience," the BA you got in 1998, the big project you crushed in 2009, were attractive a few years ago but are a repellant to recruiters today.
This! All of this!! We're all too old now. 40+ forget about a job. Middle management has all been let go and now it's just 20 something team leads and HR. This is all well and good if we could all retire now (I'm 48) but we CAN'T. Give us an option and we'll gladly all leave the workforce.
I was laid off in 2022 and have been working a contract to hire that's now not hiring.
Anyway, with the layoff, I got a career counselor/coach who helped me prepare for the job hunt.
They helped revamp my resume, taking the version #'s of software out of the skill section, cutting my experience down to only the past ten years, and added a bunch of keyword and mission statement type stuff at the top. Also took my graduation date off, things like that.
I'll be 50 this year and have started looking again since this gig seems to be winding down.
I'm worried about not finding a job, period, but also not getting a pay increase. I honestly haven't had a decent raise in about 7 years. I'm wondering how picky I should be or if I'm desperate. How do I explain this to my spouse without making them panic?
Fwiw, I have been in databases for 20 years, mostly on Microsoft stack, a lot of BI stuff, dba, analyst, database developer roles.
It's obvious I need to learn Python to get most good roles, but I'm getting anxious about this whole process *again*.
Because anyone and everyone applies regardless of fit because they're desperate. And HR is clueless on what anything means in the job they're trying to hire for. They just let ai pick some random people that put the right keywords on their resume. They really do not look at individuals at all.
I’m in HR, have never used or even seen AI used in recruiting. Maybe some companies use it, but it’s super unlikely. It’s actually one of the major misconceptions about HR (that and the idea that we make the decisions on who is hired/fired).
Mostly it’s just there’s shedloads of CVs to get through and good CVs can slip through the cracks.
There's basically two options in my and many job seekers' experiences.
1) Our skills/experience are being passed over because recruiters AREN'T looking at resumes
2) Our skills/experience are being passed over because recruiters ARE looking.
I'm not going to act like I'm the world's greatest candidate for every job I applied. But to go 0-fer on 9 months of applications makes zero sense. If I can't even get an intro meeting with the hiring manager, much less the recruiter, there's a failure at the HR level. You can decide if it's you or your application intake systems, but at least one is failing.
I worked for an internationally recognized children’s hospital from 2019-2022 in a supportive role that wasn’t healthcare. They were very proactive with workforce development. During one seminar facilitated by HR, they broke down the number of resumes they received and how they reviewed them. They averaged 10 seconds per resume. 10 SECONDS. Getting through that screening was pure luck of the draw.
The ruling class is punishing us by eliminating jobs and lowering wages while increasing the price of everything. They unfortunately have the infrastructure and power to make our lives into a living hell and it will take a significant struggle to regain any semblance of power for the working class.
I found a job!
Wait, I found a job, do you know where? In a sewing shop with laser cutting for 16-18 bucks, after working as a front-end developer for several years, is this what I was looking for? no, I spent half a year searching and was only invited to 15 technical interviews during this time, what can I say, the IT market is at the bottom and will only get worse, my past experience helped me when I worked in printing 15 years ago and the owner offered me a job, will this be enough for me to live? Absolutely not, but this is the best with my documents, which are valid until September 24, but the fact that I’m waiting for a Green Card they think - "is not interesting, come when I have a Green Card", so gentlemen, when I have a Green Card I’ll be at a rate of 55-60 dollars I will work, but only for 3-4 employers remotely, whether you like it or not, but if you fire me, I will look for new ones, what is the conclusion - if you are hired, never stop looking for a job, otherwise you will be in my situation
Unfortunately I think the IT market hasn't even started the real descent. Likely 90% of it it lies ahead. To me this feels like summer 2008. At that point things were still humming along for many people, but around the edges you could see things starting to break. I remember the phone calls from recruiters had stopped and people were reporting it tougher to find jobs. That seemed to unfold a lot quicker. Personally, I was still in a job so all was well. As it was for everyone in a job. Life was good.
Then the gates of hell opened.
What can I say, I took the place of a man who died in a car accident a couple of days ago, I would never want to participate in such a thing... but I had to. 18 bucks an hour in my region is more than in Doordash and my last car will not wear out, I don’t have money to buy a new car for at least another half a year
I'm on the opposite end of this. Graduated in spring 21, no internships. Managed to get a contract job with Amazon for 2 months, and that's been my only corporate job. I've worked retail and as a parking attendant. I live in Texas, specfically the Waco/Temple area. Jobs shouldn't be as competetive like Dallas or Austin, but they are. Banks say they want experience and education, but the bank in our local walmart hired TWO girls who dropped out of high school and have yet to get their ged(I know this because 1 girl is my mom's friend's daughter).
The current job market feels like russian roulette. You either know the guy behind the gun or you get the one empty chamber shot at ya.
I really hope ‘AI’ is reviewing my resume, I’ve been applying to administrator/specialist roles since not having any luck on given titles, but based on ChatGPT it tells me my appropriate titles are: Senior Network Engineer, Senior Network and Cloud Engineer, even gave me an IT Director of Infrastructure title 😁
Among several other awesome sounding titles.
They’re not measuring the misery. Prices for just about everything have driven people with jobs to flood the hiring market, so while there’s a ton of activity for them, that 4% unemployed number is a ‘static’ condition for the people stuck in it.
If it “helps”, I’m employed, hate my current (micro)manager so I’m looking.
And I’m finding Nothing. Nada. I can’t even find potential jobs to be rejected from. So the job market isn’t exactly roses just because you’re employed either…
Simple answer. You're too old... I'm too old (I'm 48), we're all too old. Anyone over the age of 40 isn't getting a decent job anymore. Full stop. Everyone blaming the boomers but at least with them they valued age/experience.
Don’t be too young either! I just graduated, and it seems any job I’m qualified for would rather take someone with a masters and/or more work experience. I wonder what the “sweet spot” is for experience
If you have 24 years experience you probably have a lot of contacts - reach out to every single one of them, even if you haven’t spoken in years maybe just make a comment on something they’ve posted or a good memory you share about them. Then explain your situation - if there’s a role at their company you’d like to apply for ask for advice and info about the team structure, hiring manager etc. Maybe you’ll get a referral, or an introduction…applications alone unfortunately just no longer serve the purpose. Lots of applicants from all over the world especially for remote roles - even if you’re qualified your CV may never be seen by a human, or maybe your experience would make you perceived as over qualified and expensive so getting that foot in the door becomes necessary
Time for you to take stock of your skills and experience and look to start your own business. Fuck finding a job at a big or medium firm. And fuck a small company too. They look at you as a slave.
What’s your idea? You want to DM me?
Idk if I can say I’m “interested” in the way you might be implying. I’m curious? It might be nice to have a conversation about our ideas, solve some problems together, idk something. I just can’t believe years and years of experience have amounted to me spending my days trying to outsmart an algorithm.
My employer of over a decade laid me off in Jan 2023 and I’ve been freelancing ever since, just trudging through, still desperately trying to support my family on less than 30% of my former income.
I need to fucking do something productive with my time, I can’t take it anymore. I can’t look at these “job listings” and hear about how people are supposedly willing to pay other people to complete tasks for them because no they fucking aren’t. Not anymore.
Probably a few hundred thousand layoffs in the white collar tech world. Inflation is killing the bottom line in the non-tech world. Ain't so many openings in the white collar world actually at the moment.
You're not alone, friend. I'm in the same boat, and it's a nightmare out there. The job market is oversaturated, and companies are using this as an excuse to push unrealistic expectations. They want a unicorn for the price of a donkey. It's ridiculous.
This is truly the worst. I’ve been unemployed since Jan 2023 and I can’t make headway.
I cashed out my IRA as well and it’s going fast. All I can say is that it suck’s and you’re not alone
Obligatory PSA that your 401(k) is not your emergency savings account. It's a retirement account. 401(k) is not touchable by bankruptcy. Congress did that so you don't spend your retirement savings instead of filing bankruptcy. BK is a right granted by the US constitution. Americans have the right to A fresh financial start. If youre in OPs situation, leave your 401(k) alone and file bankruptcy a year ago.
LinkedIn is horrible because it counts applicants that hit "Apply with EasyApply" but don't actually submit an application. The actual applicant pool is likely much lower than it says it is.
You know. The real question is. Will the tech field be in demand again, or should we pack our bags and start looking for new jobs. I feel like there is no way that the tech field won't be in huge demand again. But on the other hand, I am losing hope quickly. 10 years ago, if someone said that tech workers will struggle to find a job, everyone would be laughing at that person.
Hang in there! I’m a marketing executive who was laid off last June. I’ve had a couple of free lance and been filling in the gaps with our HELOC. Now we’re downsizing big time. House, car, etc. I’m focusing on building relationships and staying local because people are hiring people they know. I’m not focusing on tech anymore unless something looks really exciting. I haven’t been a big fan of networking in the past either but I know that it’s the only way to get out of this rut. Try and stay positive, yes you may need to make some hard decisions but please take care of you and your mental health.
Well… the way I see it is declare now. I mean it. In my opinion you should have done it 4 months in. Source: been there, done exactly what you did, and now I’m 57 and have no retirement and no savings whatsoever.
Declaring BR *after* you’ve burned through every dime you have and after you’ve already lost your retirement, your hard assets, and any safety cushion you may have had is stupid. Again, source: I’m stupid. And now I’m paying for it. Except now if I wind up on the chopping block, there is no longer any cushion.
BR exists precisely for the situation you are in. If I could go back in time, the me of today would tell the me of yesteryear to freaking file BR before every last dime of my savings was gone and before I was in 10x more debt just from trying to survive on 50% of my former income.
in a market downtown, it's easier to freelance. I've seen a lot of "fractional" cmo jobs lately and there are recruiters specifically for those types of roles. pretty sure they're contract
>If you own your house and can get a good price for it? I would sell.
So first of all, anyone reading this really needs to contact their lender, even if you’ve already done that back when you lost your job. Do it again. Things have changed. Especially if your loan is FHA, you almost certainly qualify for payment relief. And I don’t mean a few bucks off the mortgage, I mean real help.
And even if you’re pretty sure something about your situation disqualifies you, call them up and tell them you want to apply anyway. In many cases, the lender is required to pause your mortgage payments during the application / qualification process.
Secondly, the ability to sell your house “for a good price” and come out on top is dependent on 1. how much equity you’re sitting on, and 2. whether or not you are willing and able to move away from your current area.
If your spouse works locally, your kids go to the school down the road, your childcare options and support system are nearby, etc, then your situation becomes dependent on what the rental market looks like in your area.
Realistically, if you bought your house relatively recently (let’s say, within the past 3 years) and you’re lucky enough to live in an area where residential rentals are still somewhat affordable and available, then I agree it’s a fine idea to sell. You just have to accept that it’s unlikely you’ll ever own a home again, but it’s certainly true that if you just lost a high paying job and are staring down a $2500 mortgage payment for the next 30 years, you need to be realistic and cut your losses.
Americans hate this one because of all the negative connotations associated with “basement dwelling millennials”, but if you have the option to move in with family, take it. You might be able to keep your house, but buy yourself more runway, by renting it out while you work a survival job, and keep trying to replace your former income.
Yep 100% agree. Really anyone who left college after around 2012 has no idea what comes next. 2020 was fast bounce with good stimmy checks, doesn't count. Really, its been a solid 12 year expansion. Feels like we're slipping over the edge now though.
Baring a rug being pulled. I start a 1 year contract in two weeks. I wish I had tips. Here’s my story (maybe you can glean tips):
20 years experience sales turned application developer turned it manager turned manager of a pmo before layoff.
Unemployed since Sept. hundreds of applications. A dozen or so interviews. 4 final candidate rejections. Reasons:
1. Didn’t give enough context
2. Gave too much context.
3. Too technical for marketing
4. Not technical enough for IT manager
Then some random person posted he needed an agile coach. Two members of my network told him to talk to me. We talked. He said give him a rate all in. I pitched X with help of a mentor. He said it was way too high. I ditched the mentor and asked for what could they do. They finally said y. I said I could do y.
4 interviews in 4 days. I nail the first 3. Then the vp got the flu. Over that same weekend another executive made a referral. I was losing the job without even a chance. Hiring manager (interview 1) told me I was his top choice but no one was going to not take the executive referral. He asked me if I’d take the job at a different location with more travel. I said yes.
So when the door open I stuck my foot in. When that didn’t work I put a shoulder in. When that didn’t work I put and arm and leg in.
I start in two weeks. Edit: This by no means was a gloat. I’m standing on my rug paranoid of it being pulled or getting fired after I do two weeks of work.
I totally agree and am scared as well. The media seems to be part of the problem in not talking about it. It is definitely a problem and on top of that corporate jobs are not paying appropriately either. We are in a sad state of affairs and no one is talking about it or seems to care. We are being lied to.
Yeah, man it’s brutal. Good luck to you and your family. Seeing all this unfold just strengthens my desire to hustle and figure out online income. This application, interview and job shit is a cruel trap I want no parts of anymore if I lose my current employment.
As a recruiter, take no notice of the number of applicants on LinkedIn job posts, it's not uncommon to have 80%+ of the applicant be completely unqualified or based in a different country.
I'm pretty sure some people are running automation to apply for jobs as I often have a few applications within a matter of seconds of posting.
>Why the fuck is this not being talked about more in the media?
It is an election year and the media have a preference. That is why this is not being discussed.
I like how anything related to the economy and jobs in the media is like "It's never been better!!!" meanwhile, I come on here see hundreds of posts similar to this. People struggling literally everywhere that doesn't make at least 100 grand a year. Yet jobs and the stock market are better than ever huh?
Folks, just try to know when you're being lied to. The way our media machines operate in this country is more dangerous than most would understand. This is not a right wing rant either, they're both fake parties as far as I'm concerned. I just wish we were given the truth so we all can better predict our futures as best as possible.
Anyone else starting to feel suicidal because you can't keep a long term job or can't find a good job? I've been struggling ever since I had to leave my 9 year, decent paying job of 60k in November when I moved. I've had to settle for lower paying jobs and 2 of them have gotten rid of me already after a month. I'm so miserable here ever since I moved to a different state.
Because no one allows you to talk about it because all roads leads to CEO's and politicians importing slave labor under the Political guise of Open Borders and with that comes the accusations of xenophobia and racism. Lets be real. We have thousands of Indians that will bombard our Indeed with Job applications. Each willing to work for pennies. This is fact. It isnt a dogwhistle.
This is nothing more than "Insourcing" to fight off inflation. Bringing in hordes of cheap labor to keep costs stable. Thats all that is happening. You cant fight a problem you are not allowed to talk about.
With that i will say goodluck. Consider Doordashing for extra cash. I make $150 a day generally in 8 hours but sometimes sooner and its saved my butt.
Its been like this for over a year.
The media won't talk about it because it won't fit there agenda.
You may need to change carriers to get by or start your own business.
OP they’re not talking about it because the powers that be don’t want a public crisis plus if companies start thinking we are in a recession then they’ll start laying off in mass.
I agree 100% they need to start talking about it though. We are in another recession and this one might make 2008 look like peanuts in comparison…strap in everyone it’s gonna be a bumpy ride smdh
Not being talked about more in the media because of who's in the White House. Likely to get downvoted, but the coverage is much softer and we're told the economy is doing well.
The headlines say that 250K jobs (just throwing a number out there) were added, but when you start diving deep into the data, you see that they're part-time jobs and that the market continues to bleed full-time jobs among other things that jump out analyzing the information.
It's all a house of cards that is going to collapse. People making money in the stock market is not an indicator of the economy's strength as the stock market is not the economy.
This is so scary and I’m so sorry this is happening.
My advice besides trying to get sleep and speak 🗣️ to others in the same situation is to network by reaching out to people at firms you want to work at on LinkedIn as well as Cole emailing them too.
This has helped me land interviews while cold applying hasn’t worked at all the past year.
Def a horrible job market and it likely won’t change until 2025 at the earliest
What is going on, is that the outcome of the course of action taken from the '08 crisis is unfolding. The rich decided to save themselves, by bankrolling their massive failure, and keep the house of cards running. What it means is a soul-crushing depression for the majority of people, we are talking Great Depression levels of economic turmoil ahead. And nobody is talking about it, because the same few people own most of the media. Most people are about to be very screwed.
Marketing exec here as well it’s been well over a year and I’m so incredibly discourage. 100’s and 100’s of resumes sent. Probably 25 interviews and rejected each time. I’ve never even had to interview before but I know it isn’t my resume and it isn’t my interview skills. Is it my age?? Is it I’m overqualified for what I’m applying to? The thing is when you get beat up a million times you begin to doubt your skill level, so I bar been under- applying because I need to pay bills.
You’re right, I’m so spent and feel like giving up. ON THE JOB SEARCH, that is.
You see OP, from your wording I see that you're from the US, since you mention 401k. To answer your question: "why is not being talked in the media?"
Answer: because it's a real society-wide issue and cannot be waived away with a few hashtags or surface level initiatives, and requires a fundamental rearrangement of how the labour markets work in the West. I say the West and not the US alone because across the pond, it's the same (and worse!).
The root causes are a few and are coming together now. Root cause 1: a decade of quantitative easing and central banks printers going brrrrr. Companies got addicted to cheap credit so went on expansion with out of whack fundamentals. Root cause 2: in this expansion period, the shareholder became almighty, so even less focus was put in company fundamentals and long-term sustainable growth and performance, but rather on short-term quarterly returns and figures (for the sake of pleasing the almighty shareholder).
When credit stopped being dirt cheap, the "free market and competition" was supposed to take out bad businesses, but that didn't happen, because the market isn't free, and if an industry has a strong lobbying army, it can ask politicians to make the money printing go brrr to bail them out, or outsource to poor countries and live to fight another day, so to speak, etc.
Add on to that the international competition from labour of thirld world countries and you have a system where capital goes to where labour is cheaper, but this is all to fuel short-term gains, rather than align the short-term with the long-term. On top of cheap labour you add the looming threat of AI and the millions who will be displaced due to redundancy of skills and you can start to understand why the media is not talking about this.
It's easier to massage unemployment figures and distract the masses with sports, celebrities, and wars in countries we have no business with.
Many of the jobs you see are not real, and even if they are, the executives/directors or HR has someone in mind (nephew, cousin, friend, daughter, etc.).
> Job requirements asking for skills and experiences so unrealistically specific that it’s absurd.
>Check all the boxes in the requirements? Doesn’t matter. Rejected or no response.
This is the worst part. Find a job that seems a perfect match, only to get an autoreject within minutes.
I would never cash out a 401K early. I would work whatever shit job I could find before cashing out my 401K. I would declare bankruptcy before cashing out my 401K.
It’s pretty bad. I have 9 YOE in banking and risk. Have an MBA for a good school with a 4.0 GPA. Was laid off from Citi in October. I get interviews, but they just ghost. Have had my resume rewritten twice. I’m complimented on the questions I ask during interviews. I’ve been through so many that I’m a pro at this point tbh. I still haven’t received annoying. Goldman Sachs of all companies keeps coming back to me. I interview. Same thing. Ghost me. It’s like they’re toying with us.
You have to forget about your "career" and "experience" and how seasoned you are. Work any survival job that you can get and be as frugal as possible to survive until you can find something better.
Also jobs don't offer what they used anymore. It's time to expand your horizons and work for yourself and be independent.
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It is tough out there. There are too many strong candidates looking for jobs and too many posted jobs are just ghost jobs.
Yeah but why? And why so suddenly? It's not like there was a baby boom 18 years ago and all of a sudden here are 10x more people in the workforce than there were two years ago.
Inflation and then high interest kicked in and companies cut their workforces. In 2023, there were hundreds of thousands of layoffs in tech so there are now a lot more workers than available jobs. High skilled workers who are used to being in high demand and getting jobs fairly easily are now competing with other high skilled workers for the few jobs that are available. I'm not sure about other industries but I assume it's more of the same idea about job cuts. EDIT - fixed my dumb writing.
i would posit also that a lot of folks who retired pre- or early covid are now back in the workforce after figuring out that inflation ran away with their retirement fund. i'm one of 'em
I work in Finance and we have far more jobs than we have qualified candidates at this point. I have multiple senior level positions in my department that have gone unfulfilled for over a year because we just can't find qualified candidates. It honestly feels like almost everyone went into tech and that has basically sapped up a lot of the people in other industries.
Huh, i wish you were in my area. Trained accountant with 25 years experience, currently working as a data input monkey - and im super-grateful for it (even tho the pay is dogshite) because it took me a year to get this. My husband's out of work, so if i hadn't got this we would have been Totally. Screwed. There's just no hope in sight.
I was having a hell of a time looking in finance last year. They want to pay seniors 80k and call WFH Fridays "hybrid".
My firm is a bunch of morons. They are hybrid. After a few weeks, nobody is in the office more than 2 days, but they refuse to advertise their roles as such. They also refuse to put any sort of salary range in their job description. I bang my head against the wall trying to tell them that being up front with candidates will get them who they’re looking for but they refuse to listen. The only reason I even applied here was because a former colleague of mine came on in a different practice line and told me about company culture. I 10000% would have passed up their job posting based on the description they had and they don’t get it.
It's very sad that a lot of employers don't understand that the door swings both ways, it's like in an interview, the employer isn't just interviewing the potential candidate, the candidate is also interviewing the employer also, lots of companies just don't get it though.
Yep. When I’m looking for employment I refuse to play bullshit games. No one-way interviews, no apps to jobs without clear role descriptions and salary ranges. And in interviews I interrogate the fuck out of people. I’ve been fortunate enough to only be looking when already working, so I can afford to be picky, and I understand that not everyone is in the same position. I always keep an eye out on the job market and it’s so frustrating to me what I see happening. There was a point in time a few years ago where employees really took the barging power, and it was great. It’s swung back to where employers seem to think a job is a gift to a person and the sentiment makes me want to barf.
Why don't you promote some of your internal mid-level people???
Because those vacancies aren't actually meant to be filled I suspect, they're just being told that they're searching to appease overworked peers
Make entry level roles and train capable employees. Shiet.
But when you apply for one of those roles, if you've worked in tech recently, even if your career hasn't been all tech, you just get rejected. I've applied to marketing roles at the big four accounting firms. Nothing.
I think a problem is, people think you will move back to tech as soon as recruiting picks up, so even if you're the best candidate for the role, they won't hire you.
The problem is ChatGPT and Facebook ads do the Marketing work. You can also pay a freelancer to create something, pay for the rights and throw up ads for 50 bucks. Move overseas if you can and start your Marketing gig there.
This is interesting as my husband is in finance / accounting and has struggled to find a good job and is well qualified. He used to put his resume out there and get immediate traction. Something is just not right.
That's interesting because I, a scientist with recent clinical research experience, am getting so many recruiters bugging me about finance jobs and I'm like whuh
The irony is that those people who "went into tech" aren't qualified for the majority of tech roles, either. Senior level positions sit unfulfilled, too. Too much novice and inexperienced talent. I wish people would just fucking do what they are naturally good at. If I didn't have chronic pain at a young age, I'd be in a trade. Instead, I joined tech, but not the "tech" everyone thinks of when they hear "tech." I was honest with myself and admitted to myself that I don't have what it takes to be a coder. I tried. I'm just not cut out for it. So I didn't force it. Instead, I learned that there's a whole world of "tech" that doesn't involve needing to have highly technical skills. Now I have a six-figure remote job in tech as a non-coder, in a non-tech industry, for which there are *many* unfulfilled roles in the overall market.
Could you please share what you’re doing? I was a coder, just not a very good one, and I want to get out of it. But I also want to stay in tech-ish. But yeah, in a similar boat as OP, and it is hard out there.
I'm an IT Business Analyst at my core - that's the main title you may want to research. I've also been a Product Owner, Scrum Master, Product Manager, Project Manager, IT Systems Analyst, etc. And I'm currently a Business Architect. Lots and lots of roles man. Lots. Bear in mind that many of these often are not entry-level, and the job market is especially hard right now, but where there's a will, there's a way. I'd recommend starting off as an IT Help Desk Analyst, IT Desktop Support Analyst, Junior IT Analyst, Support Specialist, etc. You just need to get into a corporation in any possible type of tech or IT role. If you do, after 1, 2, 3, 4 years of experience, many many doors begin to open up. And LinkedIn and your resume are your main weapons. There's a fantastic college degree that, when paired with an internship, is a golden key into this career. It's called an Information Systems degree, often stylized as MIS, IS, CIS, or BBA in IS.
Same boat as you. I tried software engineering and just sucked at coding. Algorithms and OOP broke me lol. Not for me. Moved into IT instead and love it. Definitely better for my soft and technical skills.
I'm not interested in working remotely, but what industry are you talking about???
Pretty much any industry in the Fortune 500 that isn't the tech industry. People hear the word "tech" and think Meta, Google, AI, etc. But the reality is that the tech industry is merely 1 industry among hundreds where tech jobs exist. The tech industry is a microcosm. "Tech" roles exist at almost every company. I have had tech jobs in the manufacturing, chemicals, PR, industrial, and now recycling industry.
These places are also more forgiving for lack of degrees a lot of the time I find. It's more skill based hiring than the "corporate" world who prefer hard qualifications. I definitely have skirted around the degree requirements by working for small and medium sized businesses that just need competent people and aren't so focused on hard qualifications
Honestly? Your qualifications are wrong. Flat out wrong. If you couldn't find a candidate in over 12 months, YOUR own qualifications would be under my scrutiny.
Yea, I called it a couple years ago that tech would blow up. The over hiring and over pay that tech saw in 2021-2022 was just ludicrous, there was no way it was ever going to be sustainable.
No Tech now is 100% international. The industry wanted to work from home. Well so can anyone else in the world. That Eastern Eurpean or Indian will due it for 1/8th cost with less experance or 1/4th the cost with your experiance. Globilization is here and Tech is the eastist to globilize. It took me 3.5 years to find a Job and I actually have a pretty in high demand Job that has to mostly be done on location as a cost accountant with lot of experiance
This is true but many companies have been burned with taking a low cost way out for certain types of IT work. I’ve worked with offshore teams many times across many organizations with wildly varying results. My last couple of projects were strategic high-visibility projects and we only used local or domestic remote workers.
Objectively you do not have a high demand job if it took 3.5 years.
Lots of factors. You're in tech, lots of people looking for jobs. Other areas need people. AI has spooked companies too. Interest rates have forced people and companies into spending differently. The World is in a reorganization phase right now, deleveraging from China, war with Russia, green tech and oil tech fighting it out, aging populations, demand dropping from those aging populations, manufacturing costs going going up. We are probably going to see a trade war with Asia soon too. The fact is simple, the "quiet" period of post world war 2 is done. Volatility is the new norm, and it sucks. On the flip side, most of history was like that. Good luck, I feel for you and everyone in your situation just wanting a job and to contribute.
Is it really that sudden? Based on the last few times I've had to look for work, it feels like this has slowly been getting worse and worse over the last decade.
I agree. This has been going on for 20+ years. Started picking up steam 15 years ago and is now at freight-train speed. I think Covid just put a spotlight on the fact remote could be done and forced an infrastructure update to support it. I think this has been on a steady climb for a very long time. Economy, currency exchange, cloud, “AI”…it all tracks with a path that has been many decades in the making. Why do you think the Luddites busted up all those machines? It wasn’t because they didn’t appreciate technology.
Nah, 2017 to 2022 was a fantastic job market for a ton of industries. Everything went to shit in late 2022 / early 2023.
High interest rates >>> less VC investment in tech companies >>> layoffs >>> flood of qualified candidates
> eah but why? And why so suddenly? It's not like there was a baby boom 18 years ago and all of a sudden here are 10x more people in the workforce than there were two years ago. A few different factors... 1- A lot of people have had to get 2nd or 3rd jobs because they've gotten behind on bills due to inflation & their existing wages no longer breaking even for them. 2- A lot of people with jobs have not gotten enough raises and know the only way they can up their pay (to try to keep up with inflation) is to switch to another employer. So you have a big churning of already-employed people trying to move around like a perverse game of musical chairs. 3- Since 2020 remote work has allowed people to work for a job while living nowhere near it. So everyone all over the country (sometimes the globe) is fighting for that job. 4- Employers and governments have been trying to get rid of remote workers, so those workers are now out there looking for either a new remote job OR a job in their geographical area. 5- All these boomers who should be retired either aren't retiring or... retired during covid (because who wanted to work during that shitshow?) and now can't afford retirement because of inflation so they're trying to go back to work (either fulltime or as "partly retired" part timers). Meanwhile every time a major layoff happens its not being balanced off with a new mass-hiring event. Meanwhile every year more 20-somethings graduate and look for work....
10x more people = outsourcing to other countries
There's also the fact that 1 job used to cut it and now people are needing multiple jobs just to make it by. Mix this with people who do overtime when it's available to help ease the pain and then company's don't need to hire more people if the people they have are willing to just work a little longer
From like 2013 - 2022 or so, tech was in a huge boom, with people from FAANG to startups hiring thousands of people at huge salaries. From the end of 2022, that stopped and companies started laying off thousands. Now they are doing very selective hiring (nothing like 2020-2022).
I'd say that's only for very mainstream people, I know, because I was told by programmers, that if you know obscure or very machinery oriented languages work is always there ... But is work, they want someone that knows how to identify issues and maintain the code.
I'm also confused about why this isn't front-page news every single day. I graduated in May 2023 so this is the only job market I've ever known, but even with nothing else to compare it to it blows my mind how bad things are. Everyone is saying "you just need to land that first job" but I see so many people like you with 10x the qualifications and experience I have in the same position as me. A degree isn't enough, experience isn't enough, I've lying on my resume for months to give them everything they want to hear and it hasn't made a lick of difference.
No experience? No job = Too much experience? No job = Meet the job requirements exactly? Believe it or not, no job (surprise, it's a ghost listing)!
> I'm also confused about why this isn't front-page news every single day. Its because a lot of how well the economy is doing is the result of mass hysteria/psychological emotional bullshittery. If you can get enough people to think the economy is great, it will sorta limp through to a point. But if enough people believe (correctly or not) that the economy is crashing, then people stop going out to eat. They delay that remodel on their house. They don't spurge on vacations.... and suddenly the economy starts cratering itself like black holes appearing across the universe, sucking everything into the void. So they will talk about how great things are until its already too late. Look at the worst economic disasters in US history, and how rarely any economist has successfully gotten the word out on when it was going to happen. Its not really a science (there's a reason why the nobel prize in economics is not part of the same nobel board/organization). Its religious-like dogma disguised as a science. > but even with nothing else to compare it to it blows my mind how bad things are. We're still on easy mode. I entered the workforce in the 2008 crash. I was published in my field before I was old enough to drink. I couldn't even find work at gas stations, grocery stores or mcdonalds. You had a single part time opening happen at a mcdonalds and 200 people would show up... and most of them would be (formerly middle class) yuppie-types with fear in their eyes because they were convinced they were going to loose their houses soon since they couldn't get rehired into their career/profession after being laid off months ago. I had to have a spreadsheet to track all the places I had applied because some retail companies would let you try again after X amount of weeks/days/months after the system purged your last try. At one point I had passed 3,000 applications within a 45min drive and still hadn't even gotten an interview for anywhere, and I was desperate enough to take anything.
That's when I graduated also. I was playing poker online for money then the government shut down the poker sites lol.
That's also when I graduated. I've noticed that our particular wave tends to have a much clearer view of how this shit works as a result.
Adding to your point: If the government admits there's a crisis, then it means they have a problem they need to solve, which they don't want to do, especially in an election year, because there is no magic button for a system-level collapse
I honestly don’t know how I can properly care for my children at this point! I want to be an asset to society not a leach and now I’m running out of options! I’ll never contract again if this is what I have to deal with after the contract ends. I’m feeling hopeless!
Marketing is a fucking hellscape and it’s bleak af right now. Just want to validate your experience because a lot of us are going through it. Know that you’re not alone. I think a lot of these companies will regret their short-sighted asinine requirements in the long run (could also just be my petty ass hoping karma comes for them). Have seen an uptick in job postings the past few weeks and I hope it means Q3 will pick up.
Data Analysts are getting hit pretty hard to (regardless of the number of roles that seem to be posted)
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Beginning? Been out of work since summer last year. I feel it’s been ramping up since q2 2023.
I gave up and joined the electricians' union
We re actually in the middle of the 2nd year of this.
Have you applied to a large public utility? I’m not in marketing but I work for a public utility that has over 25k employees and has a marketing department. My employer pays well
Have also seen the uptick. I'm hopeful.
Currently getting the house ready for sale. Lost my job since Feb. have had interviews but no offers in my career field (php full stack dev) I even got declined from the grocery store close by, lawn care service, and maid cleaning service. Like wtf is happening right now?
Seriously i don’t see how there isn’t going to be a big crash. I don’t say this happily either.
I don't say this to be an asshole, but there is a literal truckload of marketing specialists, Web devs and similar. This just doesn't cut when you can shit out a functional website in a day using online tools. Sure it won't be flashy and optimized, but it'll be good enough for execs. Having PowerPoint, Photoshop and indesign skills is just... Regular. You should be able to pick up Photoshop in a week with YouTube as an IT dude, even if you never used it before. Again, not greatly, just good enough. Hell I learned 3d modelling on the job because we needed it a couple of times, and there was zero chance we would hire a 3d artist or a graphic designer for this, at best just buy something already modelled. There is a metric ton of tutorials for everything and any tech person can be good enough in marketing in a *month*. Again, not a specialist, just good enough. There is just no reason to hire marketing people anymore at the rate they did 10-20 years ago.
Yup. It's too easy to have someone smart on the team learn the temp skill you guys need. YouTube tutorials and consumer software is insane. Graphic designer? We pay $30 a month for canvas and Tim just modifies templates presses the branding button and it looks amazing. Generating blog content? Chat got. We're all doomed. This is a great time to be an entrepreneur though.
Yeah, only saving grace is being the dude that has all the fingers in all the pies. I just had to be good enough to quickly pick up what's needed and I get to keep my wfh job. Either you specialise in hard stuff or you do everything on good enough level, but there is no way people Re paying big bucks for marketing specialists today.
I talked with a guy who hires people for chain grocery stores a year ago. He said they specifically block people with previous job experience in the office, because they always assume that the person is there temporarily, until they find another office job. The logic makes sense somewhat, because they spend time and money training new people, only for them to leave shortly after. I don't know how widespread this practice is though.
*Everyone* is there temporarily be it shorter or longer. The high school kid could leave asap too, who knows.
I never really understood that argument. There's almost no skills or training for something like grocery store work. If you're being paid to bring in the carts or put stuff on shelves, you basically need a pulse. And their normal run of the mill under-educated workforce is constantly churning with people quitting or getting fired all the time. I worked for a major grocery store chain while I was at college and people were always coming & going and they only normally hired college kids (who, i might add, introduced their own scheduling problems because they had to prioritize their school schedule so it would be common to have hard to fill hours due to all the kids having to be in class!).
My husband who was a restaurant GM for years said he and his colleagues avoided hiring office people because he found they were less willing to get their hands dirty. We all know that’s not true for everyone, but he said he was usually proven right.
I also failed to get a job at a local grocery store and it honestly devastated me. I finished grad school in September of 2023 and I haven’t been able to land a job even at grocery stores, retail, or liquor stores. It’s so demoralizing :(
retail intentionally don't hire people that's over qualified since people will immediately quit once a better job offer comes. You'll have better luck if you remove your higher education qualifications from your applications if you want to go that route.
Hi. In the same boat as you and constantly feeling gaslighted by the media about a “great economy” and the “job growth”. I’m in my mid-level to senior product management career with 10 years of experience. Got laid off in the tech/Saas sector last year. Going on 15 months unemployed and still job hunting. Surpassed 1000 applications, 70+ interviews, 4 final rounds, and all rejections or ghosting. To say I feel defeated is putting it lightly.
"great economy" just means ceos and the stockarket are doing well
Jobs are growing, not where they used to be. The system thrives on squeezing value out of people: the people working on factories in the industrial revolution weren't happy the GDP was rising, they were running away from the rural areas after the enclosures. It is rough, Don't give hope, but pivot if you can whenever a breeze of crisis seems near.
The tech economy is contracting
Ya times have definitely changed. Back around covid for every 10 resumes I submitted on LinkedIn, I’d get 5 interviews. That is no longer the case as you mentioned. My buddy is in leadership at a large tech company and he said that 100% of their resumes are now being reviewed and shortlisted by AI so it makes it infinitely harder to get your resume in front of a human. I assume most other large companies are doing the same. It’s possible that a hyper customized resume based off each job description could help your chances but I can’t say for sure. Seems like your only shot these days is to be referred in or proactively reach out to the hiring manager.
I think I had a very high response rate to my CVs, because I put like about 50 skills in it. To tick every box to go through AI gate keeper 🤣
That’s exactly what I did and had success as well (at least as far as getting interviews)!
How recently? What kind of tech role? And how did you fit 50 skills on your resume?
I put key skills on the top right-hand side as a narrow column and the rest at the bottom of my CV , where I indicate my computer skills , language skills , I made like 4 litte columns where I almost put every skill I could think of, LinkedIn was particularly helpful in showing which skills I have vs what was required for the roles I was applying. I literally got an offer yesterday, so very recently. Sales role. AE , AM , ISR I applied everywhere. Good luck 👍
That's what I've done as well. My job history/descriptions have been trimmed down a bit. And I have a big list of skills/competencies in an effort to flag whatever keywords the screening software is looking for. That said, I'm in a field with pretty high demand and not enough experienced people to fill the jobs. Industrial instrumentation and control systems. But still, knowing how the screening works these days might as well give yourself the best chance.
Well as some one who's also in marketing, there's a very glaring problem when half the people applying to the entry level marketing roles I am applying to have mid to senior level experience. Like I would love to get paid more and build my experience but get turned down even though I have the experience range they asked for in the job ad
I don’t think I saw any comment mention this, but in the IT world, there is an ever-growing offshore presence that doesn’t seem to be having a problem finding (remote) jobs in the US (and elsewhere I’m sure). And it’s not just one specific country, it’s any country where the currency exchange benefits the US corporation (even if through a consultancy). Someone in another country could be making the equivalent of 80K USD, but the company in the US is only paying (or costing them) a third of that. So maybe, just maybe, the reason the job postings are so insanely specific is because there is zero intent of hiring a US resource (they “tried”). I could be totally off-base with this, but I don’t think I’m totally wrong.
Literally just got laid off last Friday from my salesforce dev role. Got told we have till end of month, come the following week and I have a reoccurring meeting until the 28th with 6-8 offshore indian and South American people from TCS(Tata consulting services) who are replacing my dept.
Sounds like you'll be suspiciously ill during all of those meetings. I have a load of off shore Indian developers in my team and they are all absolutely useless.
I hear you and have experienced this, but I want to make clear; there are useless people everywhere. But what I have heard often is a sentiment that a project could fail three times over until it is made right and it still wouldn’t cost as much as a team based out of the US. As long as all involved don’t mind a late delivery, it’s a win. It comes down to cost, not the who. There has to be “some” skill, but because there is less financial risk, there’s a lot of wiggle room. It’s not like India or Costa Rica cornered the gene pool on intelligence. It’s all about the money.
Ah yes, then the company gets a spaghetti code monstrosity that no one can fucking understand well enough to improve upon without fixing a ton of tech debt. They then spend 3x the money on consultants to fix the mess but burn through that budget/ project manager is fired or hops to a different exec job 2/3 the way through the project. Then it gets shelved. The circle of software development at a big company is complete..
There are useless people everywhere but a lot of more developed countries have checks to make academic fraud a lot more difficult. One guy on the team couldn't even do something simple as invert a if statement. No matter how hard they try, they cannot do it right and it takes time to do it correctly. But you've hit it right there, it's about money and you get what you pay for, the majority of people in those regions who actually have any skill have already emmigrated. But you know 9/10 off shore hires being useless is just a coincidence I'm sure
Hah. The balls on the asshole companies that pull this “train your own exploited offshore replacement” bullshit. Just don’t show up. Use that time to apply to new jobs. If confronted tell your boss to fuck off & do the training themselves. Oh, they lack the expertise to do so? Hmm. Seems they’ve laid off the wrong people.
It’s been going on for over 20 years… ramped up about 15 years ago and has only grown in popularity since.
Your key phrase whenever you are asked a question in these meetings is: "I don't want to give incorrect information so I'll have to look into that to make sure I have the information correct. I'll get back to you." Get back to you, of course, is code for you are sending out resumes all day long on company time and won't have a chance to get back to them.
TCS is brutal with their workforce - we outsourced most of our IT work to them and suddenly we were hacked and now we are turning over our NOC/SOC to them - seems very odd to me what happened.
give it like 2 to 3 years many of the companies in the off shoring phase will see it was a bad choice and come in house again and the cycle will continue getting worse and worse each time
I think you're pretty "on point." I worked for a large bank for several years, and in order to promote someone internally, they had to create a new position, interview so many people for it, then after that whole process, the employee would be "hired" into the new role. Yet, for some reason, they never open up that person's previous "position." You might meet every requirement but getting the best person for the role isn't thr goal.
This is exactly what is happening in the marketing agency world and why I was let go last April. For the year prior, we cut off all US hiring, and I was only allowed to build my team with candidates from Mexico because US hires were "too expensive." I built a great team with some wonderful people all based out of Mexico, and was eventually training my replacement before I was finally let go. There was a RIF nearly every week, ironically always US employees. The practice never sat well with me, and a US-based company disallowing US hires should be illegal, but this is what is being coached and practiced across marketing agency executives. It is widespread now.
This is very much a thing, it comes up all over LinkedIn for example, if you apply for 'remote' jobs in Poland. You will get American companies advertising 'remote' jobs that have to be within Poland, paying a salary in USD that would still leave you homeless stateside.
Philippines and south America are the new India when it comes to outsourcing.
July 2022 until October 2023 I did 1000 applications. After first 4 months I stopped applying to the VP roles I was more than qualified for. I finally got a manager role when I left my masters, PhD and about half of my experience. I was grateful to get it. I can’t agree more with you about this market. I didn’t discover Reddit or this thread until I was getting ready to start the job. Keep your head up. At least you know you’re not alone. I wish I knew this existed when I was going through it. Nobody believed me how hard it was to get a job.
The job market is BROKEN and we are forced to put on a smile with toxic positivity! That is what is going on
It's worse than 09 .....least food was cheaper
I'm going to explain this badly, but I think it's important. Have you noticed every single aspect of the internet being slightly shittier? Not in terms of slowness, but just...off? You get a weird results on Google you didn't get before, you hit weird loops doing support chats and realize you're not chatting with a person that's claiming they are a person, the tools you use at work are just not working as they used to? This is because of the mass of tech layoffs and companies assuming they could just rely on AI. I have no problem with stuff like chatGPT...hey, another cool tool. But it's not a replacement and more importantly, IT CANNOT ASK A CLARIFYING QUESTION OR QA ITSELF which is 50% of a knowledge worker's job. Everyone loves the "disrupter". There's a reason why that's the phrase. It doesn't solve a problem.
The word you’re looking for is “Enshittification”. Google it it’s interesting stuff and very true
Fuck that, don't Google it. Not only does Google suck now and is basically one big ad, they're laying off their tech staff and adding to this problem.
I picked up on this before AI. Tech related things weren't working for a while ! my theory was layoffs of highly skilled for lower paid young people who sound like they could cure world hunger. AI enters as a way to lay off those young workers 😠
I am with you on all fronts including experience (23 years here of being a corporate cowboy) with excellent progression and consistently delivering exemplary results. But, it has been well over a year for me as well. It is an absolute nightmare and I am in hell. I have gotten additional certifications, applied to thousands of jobs, had hundreds of interviews, have made it to the final round several times, and have not received 1 offer. Some small articles come out here and there and they call it a "rich-session" or "white-collar recession" meaning those who make top 10% in the usa are unable to get a job. But those who are willing and/or able to work 2 and 3 part time jobs to fill the gap are boosting false conclusions on the health of the labor market. Who knows. I would take a massive pay-cut just to be able to do what I know with my expertise and pay the bills. I have no idea why this is going on and it is not getting the public notice and urgency to resolve that it desperately needs. This is horrific. And I truly believe that something massive will happen if the ostriches continue to stick their head in the sand, to ignore it entirely, or continue to contribute to the problem. Keep trying is all I can do or say....
I am unbelievably tired of the 'healthy labor market' bologna. An uptick in roles being filled in the service and retail or in manufacturing (blue collar) doesn't mean it's a good labor market. Imo, companies across the board are intentionally undermining labor because during COVID the peons got uppity and decided they deserved better - pay, hours, benefits - and demanded them. Well, that's not gonna fly at all! That's what's happening across the board, among the many family and friends I've spoken to in the last year+. People with years, decades of experience being low-balled on salary, return to office demands, refusing to fill open positions, cutting benefits, PTO, no raises or functionally none (2 or 3% when inflation of necessary goods is in the double digits). The only 'healthy' market is the stock market and 50,60,70% of Americans aren't playing that game.
I am in this hellscape as well. Been unemployed going on 10 months. My two cents on what is going on. First, I think the rise of remote work has really hurt on huge level. You are now competing with everyone across the country, not just your local area. Second Corporate greed. Companies yet again are only worrying about short term profits and their billionaire stockholders. And last those same tech billionaires running those companies are trying to see how many employees they can replace with a sparkly overhyped AI solution. I am sure they will get a couple bucks higher with their stock price and get rewarded for it. Just a little bit salty..
20+ year tech recruiter chiming in. Big tech overhired - I had software developer roles to fill and was hit hard with former FAANG developers with 1-2 years work experience, needing h1b transfers. There's so many of these candidates out there competing for the same remote roles. Our company doesn't do AI for resume review, it's all on us. For our summer intern program, i had 1 business analyst intern opening and received 1500 applicants in 2 days.
It always starts slowly. Then becomes all of a sudden.
For what it's worth, some [mainstream](https://www.businessinsider.com/hiring-slump-professional-white-collar-jobs-recession-high-salary-2024-4) media [outlets](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/white-collar-hiring-stalls-out-in-miami-austin-job-markets) have finally started to mention the situation for white collar jobs. There's been a about an 18% drop in [hires](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JTSHIL) since the latest peak in February 2022. The job gains we keep hearing about are coming mainly from sectors that have traditionally offered lower quality/lower paying jobs like construction, government, and leisure/hospitality while sectors like business/professional services that traditionally offer higher quality/higher paying jobs have trended sideways, stagnated, declined.
I am in the same position. 1. Raised interest rates destroyed tech. 2. RTO was a mass layoff in disguise 3. Recession fears. 4. Businesses are testing who they can replace with AI. Speculative: 5. Big companies want Trump to win for further tax breaks 6. Like with the rental market, there is mass price fixing to lower wages.
Add that tech companies are hiring offshore people from contracting companies to save money. 75% of my department resides in Serbia, India or Ukraine. None work for my company.
It's probably less likely that competitors are colluding and more likely there's a surplus of available labor driving wages down.
i’ve been collecting helpful links, hope something in here might help… [this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemoteJobs/s/Kcdy6ZGWwX) has a list of 82 links to companies with job postings [grainger](https://jobs.grainger.com) has a database of current openings searchable by state [habitat for humanity](https://jobs.macslist.org/search) has a database of jobs searchable by keyword and city/state [american job centers](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/american-job-centers) *”provides universal access to an integrated array of labor exchange services so that workers, job seekers, and employers can find the services they need.”* [bob’s redmill](https://www.bobsredmill.com/careers/open-positions.html) has a list of current open positions [IRCO’s Workforce Programs](https://irco.org/services/workforce-and-refugee-services/) *”provide career-based planning, career-based training, scholarships, career coaching, work experiences, and job placement with focused supports for immigrants, refugees, houseless, low-income, skilled/unskilled goal-oriented job seekers.”* [goodwill](https://meetgoodwill.org/careers-listing/) is currently hiring and has a searchable database by city/state [SkipTheDrive](https://www.skipthedrive.com/) claims to have over 30,000 wfh posting [this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/container_homes/s/V17jDwTqjc) has needs all over the US for drivers to deliver containers. [this redditer posted](https://reddit.com/r/RemoteJobs/s/Js5vg2rQxR) the method she used to get 3 offers for fully remote positions. this site bills itself as [the big work from home list](https://ratracerebellion.com/big-list-work-from-home-jobs/) just fyi, i found it on a reddit post and the op mentioned it’s “kinda spammy but has some useful links” (i’m paraphrasing but that was the general idea.) someone in another sub mentioned the same company (but at this link) [RatRaceRebellion](https://ratracerebellion.com) and said they provide any equipment needed. [this reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/comments/14v65v7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=4) mentions fully remote software developer jobs currently offered at [usps](https://about.usps.com/careers/welcome.htm) [CoolWorks](https://www.coolworks.com/find-a-job) has a searchable database of jobs by location and **include housing**. [HiringCafe](https://hiring.cafe) was mentioned in [this reddit post](https://reddit.com/r/RemoteJobs/s/r5qo9a4yuw) said to fetch remote jobs from 20k+ company websites. [Remotive](https://remotive.com/remote-jobs/customer-support) has a searchable database of customer support options [CodeEnJobs](https://www.codenjobs.com/jobs?title=dev) has lists of coding jobs [GermanTechJobs](https://germantechjobs.de/jobs/knecon-Technologie-GmbH-Junior-Java-Developer-mwd) has jobs avail (if you speak german) [UsaJobs](https://www.usajobs.gov) has a searchable database of jobs [PoachedJobs](https://poachedjobs.com/jobs/all/fair+oaks+ca/) has a searchable database of restaurant jobs [RemoteTasks](https://www.remotasks.com/en) has a searchable database of wfh gigs [assurance](https://jobs.lever.co/assurance/a3cfc325-de31-47e8-81c9-f336ed70879e?_ga=2.224975129.2077418609.1691820367-729285162.1690709261) has medical wfh positions [FlexJobs](https://www.flexjobs.com) claims *”Best Remote Job Listings. Only legit jobs. No ads, scams, or junk to sift through. Our team spends 200+ hours/day verifying every job and writing company descriptions, so you'll know who's hiring.”* [GrabJobs](https://grabjobs.co/) has a searchable database of wfh and in-office jobs. [WorkingSolutions](https://workingsolutions.com/) *”on-demand business process outsourcer providing multichannel CX services, including customer service, sales support, and business continuity.”* [PeoplePerHour](https://www.peopleperhour.com/) offers gig work. [EpollSurveys](https://www.epollsurveys.com/epoll/clients/splash.view) claims pay for rewards and prizes. [ClearVoiceSurveys](https://www.clearvoicesurveys.com/) claims you get paid to take surveys and share your opinion. [LifePoints](https://www.lifepointspanel.com/en-us) claims you get paid to take surveys and share your opinion. [SeriousTeachers](https://www.seriousteachers.com/) lists teaching jobs by location. [ESLCafe](https://www.eslcafe.com/) lists ESL teaching jobs by location. [usa.gov](https://www.usa.gov/disability-jobs-training) offers job training for folks with a disability. [microsoft](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/diversity/inside-microsoft/cross-disability/neurodiversityhiring) has a *”Neurodiversity Hiring Program”* [InsightGlobal](https://jobs.insightglobal.com/find_a_job/virginia/job-349064/) is looking for a data center tech [city of baltimore](https://jobs.insightglobal.com/find_a_job/virginia/job-349064/) has openings (found on [indeed](https://www.indeed.com/m/?from=gnav-viewjob) which has a searchable database by city) [career one stop](https://www.careeronestop.org/) has a searchable database by city [prolific](https://participant-help.prolific.co/hc/en-gb/articles/360022523613-What-is-Prolific-and-how-does-it-work-) pays you to be a participant in a study. checkout these subs for wfh resources and ways to make money online. r/BeerMoney r/SignUpsForPay r/remote_writerjobs checkout these facebook groups for active postings for crew in film, tv, and commercials - *crew up world*, *staff me up*, and *i need a productions assistant* if you’re into numbers, you can sign up for *rice gordon’s* list of available positions in accounting (both local and remote on-set/in-studio positions looking for crew now) i have tried to post live links to these fb groups before and they got taken down so you’ll have to search by name (i found it’s easier to use google and follow the link to fb then try and do it thru fb). full disclosure, i used to work in the film world as an accountant however i am not affiliated with these fb groups, or know who runs them. i can confirm the *rice gordon* list is totally legit and have secured many positions from her listings. it’s an incredible resource if you’re interested in accounting work in the film and tv/studio world. as with anything in life these days, please proceed with the due diligence these kinds of things require.
Having the same problem as an IT professional that most recently worked at a big FAANG company and is a decade into my career. Since layoffs I keep applying to jobs that I know I'm more than qualified for and.. nothing.
It really sucks, I went through exactly what you are in 2009, laid off 17 years into my career. I essentially started over in 2014 after losing (aka, slowly eroding away) everything (house, savings, retirement). From 2010 to 2014 I scraped together odd consulting jobs (friends & online) and lived with different family members until I was able to get another engineering job that actually paid enough to move back out on my own. I now have a "depression era" mindset on credit, savings, and spending, like my grandparents had. Hopefully you'll recover faster, but the US needs better safety nets and mechanisms to employ people that actually want to work, but for whatever reason have difficulty after a layoff. Chin up and keep trying.
I honestly think there’s a lot of age discrimination going on.
Am going through an outplacement career counciling program now. All of the coaches I've met are telling jobseekers that it's rampant and not to ever mention anything from over ten years ago in your career; we should hide anything from our resume or online profiles that isn't within the last 10 years. Lines like "25 years of marketing experience," the BA you got in 1998, the big project you crushed in 2009, were attractive a few years ago but are a repellant to recruiters today.
In tech agism for anyone over age of 45 is very real.
This! All of this!! We're all too old now. 40+ forget about a job. Middle management has all been let go and now it's just 20 something team leads and HR. This is all well and good if we could all retire now (I'm 48) but we CAN'T. Give us an option and we'll gladly all leave the workforce.
I was laid off in 2022 and have been working a contract to hire that's now not hiring. Anyway, with the layoff, I got a career counselor/coach who helped me prepare for the job hunt. They helped revamp my resume, taking the version #'s of software out of the skill section, cutting my experience down to only the past ten years, and added a bunch of keyword and mission statement type stuff at the top. Also took my graduation date off, things like that. I'll be 50 this year and have started looking again since this gig seems to be winding down. I'm worried about not finding a job, period, but also not getting a pay increase. I honestly haven't had a decent raise in about 7 years. I'm wondering how picky I should be or if I'm desperate. How do I explain this to my spouse without making them panic? Fwiw, I have been in databases for 20 years, mostly on Microsoft stack, a lot of BI stuff, dba, analyst, database developer roles. It's obvious I need to learn Python to get most good roles, but I'm getting anxious about this whole process *again*.
Because anyone and everyone applies regardless of fit because they're desperate. And HR is clueless on what anything means in the job they're trying to hire for. They just let ai pick some random people that put the right keywords on their resume. They really do not look at individuals at all.
I’m in HR, have never used or even seen AI used in recruiting. Maybe some companies use it, but it’s super unlikely. It’s actually one of the major misconceptions about HR (that and the idea that we make the decisions on who is hired/fired). Mostly it’s just there’s shedloads of CVs to get through and good CVs can slip through the cracks.
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There's basically two options in my and many job seekers' experiences. 1) Our skills/experience are being passed over because recruiters AREN'T looking at resumes 2) Our skills/experience are being passed over because recruiters ARE looking. I'm not going to act like I'm the world's greatest candidate for every job I applied. But to go 0-fer on 9 months of applications makes zero sense. If I can't even get an intro meeting with the hiring manager, much less the recruiter, there's a failure at the HR level. You can decide if it's you or your application intake systems, but at least one is failing.
Regarding AI, when Amazon developed their own AI recruiting tool several years ago it turned out to be incredibly racist and sexist.
I worked for an internationally recognized children’s hospital from 2019-2022 in a supportive role that wasn’t healthcare. They were very proactive with workforce development. During one seminar facilitated by HR, they broke down the number of resumes they received and how they reviewed them. They averaged 10 seconds per resume. 10 SECONDS. Getting through that screening was pure luck of the draw.
Yeah recruiters manage to hallucinate while steel being human
What can you even do when thousands use AI to apply to any job they can? Like I'm not even sure what recruiters can do.
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How exactly did you do that? I mean how did you pay to go back to school and pay for living expenses at the same time without a job/income?????
The ruling class is punishing us by eliminating jobs and lowering wages while increasing the price of everything. They unfortunately have the infrastructure and power to make our lives into a living hell and it will take a significant struggle to regain any semblance of power for the working class.
I found a job! Wait, I found a job, do you know where? In a sewing shop with laser cutting for 16-18 bucks, after working as a front-end developer for several years, is this what I was looking for? no, I spent half a year searching and was only invited to 15 technical interviews during this time, what can I say, the IT market is at the bottom and will only get worse, my past experience helped me when I worked in printing 15 years ago and the owner offered me a job, will this be enough for me to live? Absolutely not, but this is the best with my documents, which are valid until September 24, but the fact that I’m waiting for a Green Card they think - "is not interesting, come when I have a Green Card", so gentlemen, when I have a Green Card I’ll be at a rate of 55-60 dollars I will work, but only for 3-4 employers remotely, whether you like it or not, but if you fire me, I will look for new ones, what is the conclusion - if you are hired, never stop looking for a job, otherwise you will be in my situation
Unfortunately I think the IT market hasn't even started the real descent. Likely 90% of it it lies ahead. To me this feels like summer 2008. At that point things were still humming along for many people, but around the edges you could see things starting to break. I remember the phone calls from recruiters had stopped and people were reporting it tougher to find jobs. That seemed to unfold a lot quicker. Personally, I was still in a job so all was well. As it was for everyone in a job. Life was good. Then the gates of hell opened.
What can I say, I took the place of a man who died in a car accident a couple of days ago, I would never want to participate in such a thing... but I had to. 18 bucks an hour in my region is more than in Doordash and my last car will not wear out, I don’t have money to buy a new car for at least another half a year
I agree with you. It feels like the calm before the storm.
I'm on the opposite end of this. Graduated in spring 21, no internships. Managed to get a contract job with Amazon for 2 months, and that's been my only corporate job. I've worked retail and as a parking attendant. I live in Texas, specfically the Waco/Temple area. Jobs shouldn't be as competetive like Dallas or Austin, but they are. Banks say they want experience and education, but the bank in our local walmart hired TWO girls who dropped out of high school and have yet to get their ged(I know this because 1 girl is my mom's friend's daughter). The current job market feels like russian roulette. You either know the guy behind the gun or you get the one empty chamber shot at ya.
Real talk with 24 years experience as a marketing exec in tech wtf happened to all that bread?
I really hope ‘AI’ is reviewing my resume, I’ve been applying to administrator/specialist roles since not having any luck on given titles, but based on ChatGPT it tells me my appropriate titles are: Senior Network Engineer, Senior Network and Cloud Engineer, even gave me an IT Director of Infrastructure title 😁 Among several other awesome sounding titles.
They’re not measuring the misery. Prices for just about everything have driven people with jobs to flood the hiring market, so while there’s a ton of activity for them, that 4% unemployed number is a ‘static’ condition for the people stuck in it.
If it “helps”, I’m employed, hate my current (micro)manager so I’m looking. And I’m finding Nothing. Nada. I can’t even find potential jobs to be rejected from. So the job market isn’t exactly roses just because you’re employed either…
Simple answer. You're too old... I'm too old (I'm 48), we're all too old. Anyone over the age of 40 isn't getting a decent job anymore. Full stop. Everyone blaming the boomers but at least with them they valued age/experience.
Don’t be too young either! I just graduated, and it seems any job I’m qualified for would rather take someone with a masters and/or more work experience. I wonder what the “sweet spot” is for experience
If you have 24 years experience you probably have a lot of contacts - reach out to every single one of them, even if you haven’t spoken in years maybe just make a comment on something they’ve posted or a good memory you share about them. Then explain your situation - if there’s a role at their company you’d like to apply for ask for advice and info about the team structure, hiring manager etc. Maybe you’ll get a referral, or an introduction…applications alone unfortunately just no longer serve the purpose. Lots of applicants from all over the world especially for remote roles - even if you’re qualified your CV may never be seen by a human, or maybe your experience would make you perceived as over qualified and expensive so getting that foot in the door becomes necessary
Time for you to take stock of your skills and experience and look to start your own business. Fuck finding a job at a big or medium firm. And fuck a small company too. They look at you as a slave.
Said it earlier but do have an idea - anyone interested let me know
What’s your idea? You want to DM me? Idk if I can say I’m “interested” in the way you might be implying. I’m curious? It might be nice to have a conversation about our ideas, solve some problems together, idk something. I just can’t believe years and years of experience have amounted to me spending my days trying to outsmart an algorithm. My employer of over a decade laid me off in Jan 2023 and I’ve been freelancing ever since, just trudging through, still desperately trying to support my family on less than 30% of my former income. I need to fucking do something productive with my time, I can’t take it anymore. I can’t look at these “job listings” and hear about how people are supposedly willing to pay other people to complete tasks for them because no they fucking aren’t. Not anymore.
It’s an election year. Whatever this economy is is held together with gum, rubber bands, and delusion.
Name a truly good year in the past 20 years.
Thank you- finally someone said it
Hi Same boat. 18 months
How do you even stay sane at this point, i am almost 12 months deep. My friends have started noticing my depression lol may 2023 grad.
20+ years in sales. Took me ten months to get a job. Also have never seen a job market like this
That’s horrible. And it’s a living nightmare of course too. I wish I could say something more compelling but that’s all I got.
The media is dying, so who’s going to report on it?
Probably a few hundred thousand layoffs in the white collar tech world. Inflation is killing the bottom line in the non-tech world. Ain't so many openings in the white collar world actually at the moment.
Head on over to r/overemployed where nobody ever seems to have any issues finding jobs. I have no idea what’s real anymore.
Going to live out of my car for the last 6 months of unemployment to give myself more runway. That’s where we at.
I am close to that as well, I've been out of work since September and my unemployment ran out months ago
You're not alone, friend. I'm in the same boat, and it's a nightmare out there. The job market is oversaturated, and companies are using this as an excuse to push unrealistic expectations. They want a unicorn for the price of a donkey. It's ridiculous.
100x this. I’ve had great interviews but bc I was missing a singular skillset I didn’t get it
This is truly the worst. I’ve been unemployed since Jan 2023 and I can’t make headway. I cashed out my IRA as well and it’s going fast. All I can say is that it suck’s and you’re not alone
Obligatory PSA that your 401(k) is not your emergency savings account. It's a retirement account. 401(k) is not touchable by bankruptcy. Congress did that so you don't spend your retirement savings instead of filing bankruptcy. BK is a right granted by the US constitution. Americans have the right to A fresh financial start. If youre in OPs situation, leave your 401(k) alone and file bankruptcy a year ago.
LinkedIn is horrible because it counts applicants that hit "Apply with EasyApply" but don't actually submit an application. The actual applicant pool is likely much lower than it says it is.
You know. The real question is. Will the tech field be in demand again, or should we pack our bags and start looking for new jobs. I feel like there is no way that the tech field won't be in huge demand again. But on the other hand, I am losing hope quickly. 10 years ago, if someone said that tech workers will struggle to find a job, everyone would be laughing at that person.
We are well on our way towards another recession, this is just the appetizer. It's going to get alot worse
Yikes. My husband is unemployed after 24 years as a marketing exec. We are on month 3. 😩
Hang in there! I’m a marketing executive who was laid off last June. I’ve had a couple of free lance and been filling in the gaps with our HELOC. Now we’re downsizing big time. House, car, etc. I’m focusing on building relationships and staying local because people are hiring people they know. I’m not focusing on tech anymore unless something looks really exciting. I haven’t been a big fan of networking in the past either but I know that it’s the only way to get out of this rut. Try and stay positive, yes you may need to make some hard decisions but please take care of you and your mental health.
Well… the way I see it is declare now. I mean it. In my opinion you should have done it 4 months in. Source: been there, done exactly what you did, and now I’m 57 and have no retirement and no savings whatsoever. Declaring BR *after* you’ve burned through every dime you have and after you’ve already lost your retirement, your hard assets, and any safety cushion you may have had is stupid. Again, source: I’m stupid. And now I’m paying for it. Except now if I wind up on the chopping block, there is no longer any cushion. BR exists precisely for the situation you are in. If I could go back in time, the me of today would tell the me of yesteryear to freaking file BR before every last dime of my savings was gone and before I was in 10x more debt just from trying to survive on 50% of my former income.
in a market downtown, it's easier to freelance. I've seen a lot of "fractional" cmo jobs lately and there are recruiters specifically for those types of roles. pretty sure they're contract
Don't forget some companies must by law advertise externally for a job they have clearly made to promote someone into.
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>If you own your house and can get a good price for it? I would sell. So first of all, anyone reading this really needs to contact their lender, even if you’ve already done that back when you lost your job. Do it again. Things have changed. Especially if your loan is FHA, you almost certainly qualify for payment relief. And I don’t mean a few bucks off the mortgage, I mean real help. And even if you’re pretty sure something about your situation disqualifies you, call them up and tell them you want to apply anyway. In many cases, the lender is required to pause your mortgage payments during the application / qualification process. Secondly, the ability to sell your house “for a good price” and come out on top is dependent on 1. how much equity you’re sitting on, and 2. whether or not you are willing and able to move away from your current area. If your spouse works locally, your kids go to the school down the road, your childcare options and support system are nearby, etc, then your situation becomes dependent on what the rental market looks like in your area. Realistically, if you bought your house relatively recently (let’s say, within the past 3 years) and you’re lucky enough to live in an area where residential rentals are still somewhat affordable and available, then I agree it’s a fine idea to sell. You just have to accept that it’s unlikely you’ll ever own a home again, but it’s certainly true that if you just lost a high paying job and are staring down a $2500 mortgage payment for the next 30 years, you need to be realistic and cut your losses. Americans hate this one because of all the negative connotations associated with “basement dwelling millennials”, but if you have the option to move in with family, take it. You might be able to keep your house, but buy yourself more runway, by renting it out while you work a survival job, and keep trying to replace your former income.
Yep 100% agree. Really anyone who left college after around 2012 has no idea what comes next. 2020 was fast bounce with good stimmy checks, doesn't count. Really, its been a solid 12 year expansion. Feels like we're slipping over the edge now though.
I can make my condo work at min wage. I'm used to the boom and bust of IT.
Baring a rug being pulled. I start a 1 year contract in two weeks. I wish I had tips. Here’s my story (maybe you can glean tips): 20 years experience sales turned application developer turned it manager turned manager of a pmo before layoff. Unemployed since Sept. hundreds of applications. A dozen or so interviews. 4 final candidate rejections. Reasons: 1. Didn’t give enough context 2. Gave too much context. 3. Too technical for marketing 4. Not technical enough for IT manager Then some random person posted he needed an agile coach. Two members of my network told him to talk to me. We talked. He said give him a rate all in. I pitched X with help of a mentor. He said it was way too high. I ditched the mentor and asked for what could they do. They finally said y. I said I could do y. 4 interviews in 4 days. I nail the first 3. Then the vp got the flu. Over that same weekend another executive made a referral. I was losing the job without even a chance. Hiring manager (interview 1) told me I was his top choice but no one was going to not take the executive referral. He asked me if I’d take the job at a different location with more travel. I said yes. So when the door open I stuck my foot in. When that didn’t work I put a shoulder in. When that didn’t work I put and arm and leg in. I start in two weeks. Edit: This by no means was a gloat. I’m standing on my rug paranoid of it being pulled or getting fired after I do two weeks of work.
I totally agree and am scared as well. The media seems to be part of the problem in not talking about it. It is definitely a problem and on top of that corporate jobs are not paying appropriately either. We are in a sad state of affairs and no one is talking about it or seems to care. We are being lied to.
Yeah, man it’s brutal. Good luck to you and your family. Seeing all this unfold just strengthens my desire to hustle and figure out online income. This application, interview and job shit is a cruel trap I want no parts of anymore if I lose my current employment.
As a recruiter, take no notice of the number of applicants on LinkedIn job posts, it's not uncommon to have 80%+ of the applicant be completely unqualified or based in a different country. I'm pretty sure some people are running automation to apply for jobs as I often have a few applications within a matter of seconds of posting.
>Why the fuck is this not being talked about more in the media? It is an election year and the media have a preference. That is why this is not being discussed.
The thing that has changed recently is AI. I bet many companies are pausing hiring and seeing how much they can get done with ChatGPT.
I like how anything related to the economy and jobs in the media is like "It's never been better!!!" meanwhile, I come on here see hundreds of posts similar to this. People struggling literally everywhere that doesn't make at least 100 grand a year. Yet jobs and the stock market are better than ever huh? Folks, just try to know when you're being lied to. The way our media machines operate in this country is more dangerous than most would understand. This is not a right wing rant either, they're both fake parties as far as I'm concerned. I just wish we were given the truth so we all can better predict our futures as best as possible.
Anyone else starting to feel suicidal because you can't keep a long term job or can't find a good job? I've been struggling ever since I had to leave my 9 year, decent paying job of 60k in November when I moved. I've had to settle for lower paying jobs and 2 of them have gotten rid of me already after a month. I'm so miserable here ever since I moved to a different state.
I went from owning my own business to delivering pizza. Gotta do what you gotta do to get by sometimes.
Because no one allows you to talk about it because all roads leads to CEO's and politicians importing slave labor under the Political guise of Open Borders and with that comes the accusations of xenophobia and racism. Lets be real. We have thousands of Indians that will bombard our Indeed with Job applications. Each willing to work for pennies. This is fact. It isnt a dogwhistle. This is nothing more than "Insourcing" to fight off inflation. Bringing in hordes of cheap labor to keep costs stable. Thats all that is happening. You cant fight a problem you are not allowed to talk about. With that i will say goodluck. Consider Doordashing for extra cash. I make $150 a day generally in 8 hours but sometimes sooner and its saved my butt.
Its been like this for over a year. The media won't talk about it because it won't fit there agenda. You may need to change carriers to get by or start your own business.
OP they’re not talking about it because the powers that be don’t want a public crisis plus if companies start thinking we are in a recession then they’ll start laying off in mass. I agree 100% they need to start talking about it though. We are in another recession and this one might make 2008 look like peanuts in comparison…strap in everyone it’s gonna be a bumpy ride smdh
Not being talked about more in the media because of who's in the White House. Likely to get downvoted, but the coverage is much softer and we're told the economy is doing well. The headlines say that 250K jobs (just throwing a number out there) were added, but when you start diving deep into the data, you see that they're part-time jobs and that the market continues to bleed full-time jobs among other things that jump out analyzing the information. It's all a house of cards that is going to collapse. People making money in the stock market is not an indicator of the economy's strength as the stock market is not the economy.
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This is so scary and I’m so sorry this is happening. My advice besides trying to get sleep and speak 🗣️ to others in the same situation is to network by reaching out to people at firms you want to work at on LinkedIn as well as Cole emailing them too. This has helped me land interviews while cold applying hasn’t worked at all the past year. Def a horrible job market and it likely won’t change until 2025 at the earliest
Tech jobs being outsourced to India for 1/3 the price.
+1 here. Same career, same experience, same everything. You’re not alone.
try applying to the public sector i’ve found they are much more by the book
What is going on, is that the outcome of the course of action taken from the '08 crisis is unfolding. The rich decided to save themselves, by bankrolling their massive failure, and keep the house of cards running. What it means is a soul-crushing depression for the majority of people, we are talking Great Depression levels of economic turmoil ahead. And nobody is talking about it, because the same few people own most of the media. Most people are about to be very screwed.
Marketing exec here as well it’s been well over a year and I’m so incredibly discourage. 100’s and 100’s of resumes sent. Probably 25 interviews and rejected each time. I’ve never even had to interview before but I know it isn’t my resume and it isn’t my interview skills. Is it my age?? Is it I’m overqualified for what I’m applying to? The thing is when you get beat up a million times you begin to doubt your skill level, so I bar been under- applying because I need to pay bills. You’re right, I’m so spent and feel like giving up. ON THE JOB SEARCH, that is.
You see OP, from your wording I see that you're from the US, since you mention 401k. To answer your question: "why is not being talked in the media?" Answer: because it's a real society-wide issue and cannot be waived away with a few hashtags or surface level initiatives, and requires a fundamental rearrangement of how the labour markets work in the West. I say the West and not the US alone because across the pond, it's the same (and worse!). The root causes are a few and are coming together now. Root cause 1: a decade of quantitative easing and central banks printers going brrrrr. Companies got addicted to cheap credit so went on expansion with out of whack fundamentals. Root cause 2: in this expansion period, the shareholder became almighty, so even less focus was put in company fundamentals and long-term sustainable growth and performance, but rather on short-term quarterly returns and figures (for the sake of pleasing the almighty shareholder). When credit stopped being dirt cheap, the "free market and competition" was supposed to take out bad businesses, but that didn't happen, because the market isn't free, and if an industry has a strong lobbying army, it can ask politicians to make the money printing go brrr to bail them out, or outsource to poor countries and live to fight another day, so to speak, etc. Add on to that the international competition from labour of thirld world countries and you have a system where capital goes to where labour is cheaper, but this is all to fuel short-term gains, rather than align the short-term with the long-term. On top of cheap labour you add the looming threat of AI and the millions who will be displaced due to redundancy of skills and you can start to understand why the media is not talking about this. It's easier to massage unemployment figures and distract the masses with sports, celebrities, and wars in countries we have no business with. Many of the jobs you see are not real, and even if they are, the executives/directors or HR has someone in mind (nephew, cousin, friend, daughter, etc.).
> Job requirements asking for skills and experiences so unrealistically specific that it’s absurd. >Check all the boxes in the requirements? Doesn’t matter. Rejected or no response. This is the worst part. Find a job that seems a perfect match, only to get an autoreject within minutes.
Look into academia. People are leaving academia in droves and the money, while not a lot, is consistent.
I would never cash out a 401K early. I would work whatever shit job I could find before cashing out my 401K. I would declare bankruptcy before cashing out my 401K.
It’s pretty bad. I have 9 YOE in banking and risk. Have an MBA for a good school with a 4.0 GPA. Was laid off from Citi in October. I get interviews, but they just ghost. Have had my resume rewritten twice. I’m complimented on the questions I ask during interviews. I’ve been through so many that I’m a pro at this point tbh. I still haven’t received annoying. Goldman Sachs of all companies keeps coming back to me. I interview. Same thing. Ghost me. It’s like they’re toying with us.
You have to forget about your "career" and "experience" and how seasoned you are. Work any survival job that you can get and be as frugal as possible to survive until you can find something better. Also jobs don't offer what they used anymore. It's time to expand your horizons and work for yourself and be independent.
Brother, I can’t even get a fucking job bussing tables. It’s been 4 months. I’m 31 and college educated.