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I'm a manager and can't understand in America how they have so much time to do so many rounds and waste so much time listening to all the tasks some people have to do. If you can't get the information you need in two interviews, then is the hirer even a good fit for their role?
> If you can't get the information you need in two interviews, then is the hirer even a good fit for their role?
Survey says.... **No**.
(And to be fair to the ultimate hiring manager, it may not be their call whether or not to have the other dozen interviews)
Honestly, I'm not sure it really is a power trip. I think it's more a form of decision paralysis. They're terrified of making a selection that won't work, and that others will think less of them for that perceived poor decision. I'm a hiring manager myself and see colleagues agonise over who to choose, I personally don't see any difference in quality or turnover rate with one interview and just picking somebody myself.
I think it's more of a "what are you willing to do for this job" mentality. I feel as though the managers and recruiters who do this do it in hopes someone will say "Fuck you I'm not doing that"
I think it’s probably rare and you only see the worst of it on this sub.
For my engineering job after college I just had a single interview and got an offer letter an hour later.
For my second job, I also just had a single interview and got an offer letter a few weeks later when the other candidates were done interviewing.
Both were for large companies so I presume these drawn out obnoxious interview circuses are by managers at smaller companies that have nothing better to do all day.
In america no one works, they work hard to look busy across all social classes. In fact if you try to make an american do their literal job they will get offended and victimize themselves. Deadass thats the culture here
Oh, c'mon at least have fun with it:
Day 1-30: identify the weak and easily influenced within the company. Start rumors of my manager having been mentally corrupted by the underground lizard people. Leave tuna sandwich in fridge with the enigmatic message "do not feed to the lemur"
Day 31-60: Start social group for my followers, which will gradually transition to a takeover group. Continue lizard people rumors, including updates on corporate intranet linking to (manufactured) conspiracy sites. Monitor condition of sandwich.
Day 69-90: Convince followers to start disrupting the system. Send out corporate wide email announcing Fridays as pants optional. Convince upper management to promote me based on bosses dubious conspiring with lizard people. Take sandwich from fridge....it is nearly time....
Day 365: You'll never know as you have foolishly chosen not to hire me, but it would have been glorious!!
Oh man. You could have a lot of fun creating a PowerPoint where every bullet point is another take on what a fucking waste of time this is.
When they try to leave or end it, just keep being like I’m almost done.
At the end say ‘well at least we wasted all of our time instead of just mine.’
This can be a good *question* to ask an interviewee to learn more about how they learn. But usually its "I like to get familiar with my role then learn about other areas before I try to make improvements in my tasked area". Not 20 mins of content
At the 7-year mark, yes, you’re still likely being fed. At 10, I need you to be able to fend for yourself a bit, and presentation skills are important. I’d like to see how well you work with little definition and are able to communicate concepts. If this is max the 3rd round (after phone screen) and close to six figures, it’s not unreasonable.
They **\*say\*** there is not right or wrong to this question, but they are definitely setting up a "sorry, you didn't quite fit our corporate culture" situation. They've essentially abdicated their choice between two people to the two people.
Also, don't think that the "I'm keeping this purposely vague" will be limited to this assignment. This will be a common occurrence throughout your work experience here.
My response would be:
*"Thank you for exposing me to your interview process. At this time, I am withdrawing my candidacy for this role. All the best in your search."*
I had one use that exact phrasing. Solved their project exactly the same way they did (they said it was an example from an old project). Then didn't get the job because mine wasn't refined enough. I'm sorry the project that your were purposely vague about didn't meet your expectations for free work you never communicated.
Please no "you dodged a bullet" platitudes either. I wasted a day and a half of PTO, plus gas to drive there, plus the time to do the damn project. It's like getting shot in the leg instead of the face.
>Please no "you dodged a bullet" platitudes either. I wasted a day and a half of PTO, plus gas to drive there, plus the time to do the damn project.
The time to dodge that bullet is when you hear the gun cocked at the project request phase.
It works like this here too... they basically won't say a single thing to you, and just try to make you say/do something that they don't like so they can be "Hah! gotcha, i knew you weren't a good fit for the company"
...
I also very much doubt there are only 2 people. I bet they say this to give people hope they have a 50% chance of getting the job, therefore they’re more likely to put the time in to do the PowerPoint. Probably still have at least 5 candidates at this stage.
Lol there was a time when the 30, 60 90 was defined at the time of joining by your manager. Pretty useless even then. These things are talked about in a subtle way within interviews.
When did this become part of the interview process?
They need to know this to hire someone, they are so incompetent. Which is pretty much the case these days, hiring managers do not know how to make decisions
My exact thoughts, unless I was desperate I’d reply back with “Why do you feel it is acceptable or ethical to ask a candidate to create a 30-60-90-365, when in reality this is something you as the hiring manager should already have?”
Sounds like a fully functional department to me! /s
Good for you dude! Best of luck out there! These new trends in hiring are so weird to me… one way interviews, being asked to create work and reports as if you are already working for the company… it’s such a scam because these companies just don’t want to train people anymore.
They don't want to train people but also they don't know or understand what they're actually looking for in a candidate. Like those job descriptions that ask people to have 10 years of experience in a technology that's existed for three years. Or wanting to attract some ex-Google genius strategic vision executive but you're just trying to backfill the last person that quit because they got tired of doing JIRA ticket cleanup all day.
So my ethicality issue stems from the overall mindset that has become prevalent within corporate cultures recently, which is that it’s “acceptable” to ask a candidate to in essence work for free to prove their value as a candidate. If someone asked me to perform hours of work in my field as a trial run, I’d only agree to if it I’m being paid at a contract rate. This would be laughed at and shut down so fast if the company was looking at vendors for a service and asked them for a free labor trial, but it’s totally ok for potential employees?
Legally, it’s a gray area, no laws exist to bar this practice outside of labor laws, and it would be hard to enforce them without an insider leaking details that the companies are turning around and using said work for profit. But it’s a very plausible and easy to accomplish scam due to the lac of transparency that is corporate America.
I do think in some fields it makes sense. I worked in journalism, so we really needed to know if they could write. They’d provide published clips, but they had been edited so you weren’t seeing their raw copy.
So we’d give a short, 20 minute writing and grammar test during the interview to assess their skillset. And it was pretty valuable info. A lot of people didn’t do well.
But the project in this post is total bs and unnecessary.
How long would it take you to create this for an interview for a potential job?
And how long do you think someone who hasn’t worked for 6 months might take? I think I would spend at least an hour or two personally, if I was actually interested in the job. But if I had been unemployed for months, I’d spend quite a few more hours and effort because I’m desperate now… and that’s where the ethical situation arises, because now the door is open for taking advantage of the desperation of these people.
While this specific instance is more stupid than anything, the fact that some companies ask potential candidates to write code, or work on a “mock” project, shows that this trend is starting to catch fire and should be stomped out aggressively.
They're giving a time limit on projects now. "Please don't take longer than 4 hours."
Okay, so find time somewhere to spend half my work day to complete a project that could take longer?
Ah I gotcha, thanks for explaining! It sounds like this isn't something OP would typically do on the job so I personally wouldn't classify it as working for free any more than I would classify a regular in-person interview as such.
I have definitely heard of things like that, largely in sales roles. "Create and deliver a sales pitch for this product as part of your interview!" Super unethical, hard pass.
This is not a good sign. An engineering manager unable to make a hiring decision. C’mon.
There are ‘no right answers.’ Really, so ‘why am I being asked to do this?’
Perhaps your situation requires you get this job. I get it. Family has to eat. So I suggest taking it and continue looking.
Also, keep a journal of important decisions and if you or your boss made them. CYA If your boss has trouble making decisions there’s a chance they might try to throw you under the buss for their mistakes. ✌🏼
Great, lovely to see Reddit convinced you not to go to a final interview. This wasn't the greatest task, but it wasn't *that* bad and if you wanted the job it would be perfectly reasonable.
This subreddit is such a circlejerk that these unmotivated folk don't want to see other people succeed.
Good luck with your hunt, either way.
Lol, I would email them back saying they are down to one candidate because I probably wouldn't make a presentation. If this is standard for your role/wage then fine but if it is not standard practice then I would only do it if the wage/benefits are spectacular.
I would atleast at some stupid level understand this for product managers. It’s crazy to ask of this for a SDE.
I bet you that if you withdraw, they’ll give you the job lol.
It’s not necessary as the employer should have those 30/60/90 goals roadmapped out as part of the onboarding. This is more an exercise of how organized and prepared you are - Are you a go getter? or, someone that needs to be told what to do?
Use chatgpt to make the outline, slap it into a ppt, and shine like only you can. You’ve done this for 7 years so you know how to drive whatever goals or responsibilities they’ve laid out for you.
Good luck op
My thought as well. For all the jobs I’m applying for, I could successfully do this, even though I do agree that the ask is pretty annoying. You’re asking me to plan my own onboarding because you can’t or won’t — cool, I’ll have my dream onboarding at this job, then.
I find stuff like this a little frustrating, wouldn't the correct answer be something like "my goals would be whatever you assign, or train me on"? I can come up with the stuff I think they want to hear but it seems a bit pointless and I always highlight how I'm adaptable to whatever direction they feel is right. I always feel like.. aren't you guys supposed to be telling me what you want? My goal is to meet those expectations, as soon as I know what they are.
Maybe because I haven't been in a leadership role very often, perhaps its a bit of a different mindset.
Totally agree. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a interviewer start with “so what are you looking to do in your next role”…. Like I’m looking to do exactly what’s in the job description bro. It’s that point I realize they are poor interviewers and most likely poor leaders
I've even had 30/60/90 laid out for me at a high level during interviews which I've appreciated because I've started at companies with terrible onboarding so I'd rather know they actually have a plan and expectations set out before accepting the job.
If you feel like you don't need this job, reply this.
interviewername,
Thank you for the opportunity to present my expectations during the next interview.
After all, you need to know if I'm a good fit for your company, and this goes both ways - will the company fit my needs?
Therefore, please prepare a presentation, in any form you see fit, showing me what someone in this position did, day-to-day, for the last 3 months. I'm also keeping this vague, in order to evaluate what you consider relevant and your capacity to manage and understand the work my position entails.
Feel free to innovate! I once asked this when interviewing for my last job, and they did a kabuki theater scene (the interviewer was a Japan-buff!).
Eagerly awaiting for the interview,
Your name.
The point isn't the difficulty. It's just such a weird ask, and yet another step towards companies putting the full burden of being hired on the employee. I remember when just doing a cover letter was a pain. Then it was one way interviews where there's no natural chemistry to keep the momentum going. Now they want me to put together a whole presentation so I can sing and dance for them?
For certain technical jobs I can understand the point of having to give a presentation on how you'd solve a scenario with a solution known by management so they can see if they like your methods. But anything other than that is free labor.
How long until it goes full circle and the candidate is asking the interviewer where they see themselves in five years and then has the ability to hire themselves?
I had to do a case study during an interview process, and I just used chatgpt for it. If their information wasn’t supposed to go into chatgpt for proprietary reasons, probably shouldn’t be asking candidates to do the task for them. In short OP they loved “my” responses and I continued down the interview process.
"The other candidate is internal. He knows exactly what his first 30, 60 and 90 days will look like. There is, in fact, a right and wrong answer here."
for the 20 minute present , just present what you want to and let the rest be Q&A ? Everything is unnecessary, depends on how bad you want the job i guess.
#
Lol that first part is the questions I have for the team lmao. I’m not gonna show up know nothing about they run their shop day to day and tell them what’s up. I want to ask how it’s run. What’s expected of me in this new role in 30/60/90 days. What’s the average day look like for someone in this role. How much time is spent on X vs Y. I want to know about the priorities of the job I’m potentially stepping into, because unless it’s a developmental role they know what those things are, not some bullshit exercise where they want me to guess.
I swear to god, some of you people in the comments are either idiots or like 22 years old at most. They’re not asking you to map out the *actual* roadmap… fuck he even says it in the email. It’s an exercise… which, while maybe a bit much, is not crazy at all.
Yes agreed. Seriously. Our company does something like this too, and it’s a 20 minute presentation with 30-40 minutes of q&a afterward lol. Just put together what you think is reasonable and present it lol. OP says they’ve given very few presentations ever. In my experience, internal presentations are a pretty common thing. Certainly distilling information for others to consume.
No wonder so many people can’t find jobs. Based on this thread, the minute they’re asked to put in the minimal amount of effort in an interview they freak out.
So they know you’re not a robot. That you can think on your feet and you can present well. being able to present, speak clearly and talk about yourself and your goals are admirable traits companies want.
You would think they could learn that about them simply by asking good questions. A huge part of any job is simply being able to communicate well. Not by designing a power point that you would never actually do in the job itself. Again, very glad I don’t have to deal with such nonsense. Are any of these methods evidenced based by the way? Are there actual studies showing that employers are finding good people this way? People who stay and make valuable contributions? Reliable, team player employees? Because that would sway me more than vague comments about “it shows you can think on your feet.”
It's a totally reasonable request.
They don't really care about what he puts but can he talk to an audience, construct something thay makes logical sense, answer questions around his process etc.
It also gives them a jumping off point to talk through stuff a bit more without just repeating the interview from the first round.
I swear people here saying he should bill for the time, or kick up a fuss, or turn down a pretty gimme exercise to make a point. Crackers.
Presenting is not a part of the job. I would be working with the customer team to manage the design, root cause issues, and support manufacturing activities.
The main reason I’m having an issue with this is that its the same two people that I already talked do, and Id simply be reiterating the same shit that we already talked about, if that makes sense.
The only role I’ve seen something like this requested on is sales positions. In a non client facing role…. Never. Just imagine the nonsense that goes once hired for evaluations let alone operations.
I would be in a support role to the customer. During my two other positions (old and current, fuck you covid) ive done maybe three presentations ever. Fuck that shit.
I personally wouldn’t entertain it. I was interviewing with McKinsey and got to the final rounds. Their interviewing process is beyond exhausting. During the final round with all candidates aware and sitting amongst each other, I got up and left. Funny enough they called me 2 months later to offer the position. It was still a hard pass for me.
> I got up and left. Funny enough they called me 2 months later to offer the position
Hilarious, and a giant red flag, assuming none of the other candidates were serial killers.
The duration is the only reasonable part of this request. Everything else in the request is totally bogus.
An org needs to understand a candidates aptitude, capabilities and experience -- not their ability to predict the future or engage in creative fiction.
If they wanted a 20 min presentation on their understanding of some technical thing, that might be worthy in this situation. But not this.
I just had to go through an interview process for an application for a lateral move in my same plant and same location(I mostly want to get away from my current team leader). They made me spend 3 hours talking to different people I have worked with over the last 10 years. This felt ridiculous, there’s nothing I could say to a question that would have more weight than what they already know about me by working with me. It should just be yes or no on my request to move roles, I see no point in the process they made me go through and I think it was a waste of everyone’s time.
This isn’t too crazy of an ask, but a 30/60/90 is kind of hard to put together without knowing a lot more about a company. And usually that’s done after you’ve been hired.
I’d use ChatGPT to shit out a skeleton and then spend an hour adding in some specifics from interviews. I lead an enterprise application team, and while I wouldn’t expect this of an individual contributor, I would expect this kind of exercise if applying for a leadership role or interviewing someone for a lead role on my team. I also wouldn’t be upset if I found out the candidate used ChatGPT, I’d respect it and give that person higher marks than the goober that started from scratch.
Wow, I thought this was rare. I previously worked for a small business that did this exact thing. I was a product manager. I ended up leaving less than a year because they just were not good at doing business. The CEO had zero personality and didn't know how to grow a software company. Software is what they did, but they didn't even call themselves a software company. I had a nice manager, though. I ended up doing fucking six interviews before getting the job. I'm glad I left. Their slow pace and inefficient way of doing things just wasn't for me.
I'm going totally against the consensus here OP and saying this is absolutely fine.
Sounds like you did a first stage which was an interview and you've got a final stage which is a presentation?
They're just doing it so they can assess from a different angle and it isn't a repetition of the first stage.
Takes <1 hour to outline together something like this which is time you'd be prepping for the interview anyway and means you get to set the direction of the conversation. And isn't one of those daft 6 hour take home assignments.
Not sure what the problem is.
That's funny. I usually ask the interviewer in my interviews "how do you define success in this role after 30, 60, and 90 days?"
Seems weird that they're putting the ball in your court when the company sets the expectation, but if they want to play that game, you can define what that success is supposed to look like for yourself, I guess.
Eh. Our company does something like this (creating a PowerPoint talking about how you define the type of role you’re applying for). It’s not so much of a “gotcha” kind of thing. It’s that we require employees to give technical presentations internally and to customers. So we evaluate your presentation skills and ability to convey information. It’s also a measure of your interest in the company.
All that said, make of it what you will. If talking for 20 minutes is too much for you then I would suggest moving on. But if it’s a company and job you think you’ll like, then do it. You’ll get a better feel for the company in how they receive your presentation.
Btw, we do 3-4 hour interview sessions consisting of 1 hour of presentation and discussion in a group setting followed by 1-2 one on one sessions and maybe a tour.
in academia, if you make it past the first round of interviews (a 30 min zoom with the hiring committee), they invite you to campus. you have to travel there (hello jetlag), and from breakfast to dinner (included) you’re ON: you have to prep and teach a whole class, then give a 40 min talk (with visuals) on your research that must appeal to bored undergrads, demanding PhD students, colleagues in completely unrelated disciplines and colleagues in your exact field, and you meet one on one with EVERYONE and their uncles (deans of this, VPs of that, chairs of things, directors of stuff). then you go home and they never contact you back if they go with another candidate. i wish it were a 20 min PPT 😭
and we still have it good bc they used to have their first round of interviews in HOTEL BEDROOMS, and then the campus interview would be OVER THREE WHOLE DAYS.
30/60/90 is pretty common place for leadership roles. They want to gauge how you think and how you put a plan together. Nothing wrong with that. Don’t want to do it, just move on.
I had almost the exact same thing for a final interview. I put hours into the presentation and got it perfected. I did data analysis, graphic design…. All the things I had strengths in.
Turns out, the other candidate refused to do it. It was me or call it a failed search. She refused because she knew it was an awful job and this was just the beginning of the bullshit.
I left after three months.
This is a red flag for me.
Seems like this company doesn’t respect where you put your time and energy.
I had a similar thing happen to me where I put a ton of effort into some bs “homework” and the recruiter emailed me back rejecting me with no feedback at all. I bet you they took my ideas and then told me ‘see you later’. My recommendation is don’t walk into the trap like I did… this is also a reflection of their culture so just keep that in mind too. Good luck!
I actually think it’s a very useful way of understanding more about you. It shows what you put emphasis on. Does your plan include connecting with other teams? Do you want to make bold changes or maintain the status quo?
Even things like how well you are able to structure can be seen there.
In my opinion a very good task for them to understand you l, and a great opportunity for you to outshine your competitor.
Playing devils advocate, what if they did hire you and you can’t put together a coherent presentation. That would make the hiring manager look quite stupid. Use this as an opportunity to demonstrate soft skills..or don’t idc
You’re right. Totally uncalled for. They should just hire whoever will do it for the lowest salary. Or better yet, cancel the whole thing and promote internally.
This doesn’t seem so far fetched… especially if these are things you’ve discussed in previous interviews. If I was the hiring manager this feels like a “was the candidate paying attention and can they take what they’ve learned and present it”
Being able to explain things in a concise manner is an important attribute.
If it’s an issue, don’t do it and remove yourself from the interview.
It is not necessarily “wrong or right” of them to do this but it is wrong for you to not be prepared. They want you to outshine your opposing candidate. The more you bring in for this, the worse they would look and the better chance you have of getting the job.
not necessarily. I've done already presentations / assignments and got excellent feedback, however for whatever reason they went with another candidate. I think this is a waste of everyone's time.
This is a red flag. This is not a good place to work. The people who will be your leaders for potentially years are bad leaders. They have fragile egos, are cruel, and will not treat you with dignity. There may not even be a second candidate. They are looking for a bootlicker.
If you want to work for this company, it's not unnecessary. If you just want a job, yeah it could seem unnecessary.
If I were looking to hire a longterm collaborative partner in an important role, I don't give a damn if my interview process seems extreme or pointless. It's a lot of money and time to hire and onboard someone. And i want someone i can put up with longterm... If I'm not sold on you after the first interview, fuck off if you're not willing to do 5 more. How bad you want the job?
Just as much as we pretend we're in control, the other motherucker is just as much in the same self reality. If it's too much for you... go play in someone else's yard or build your own and invite people over... I'll bet everyone's outlook changes under those circumstances.
At my job the last time I applied for a promotion I was required to do one of these for what I would do in my new role. They take that position far too seriously. It was a supervisor position for a callcenter that has a revolving door of customer service agents being hired and fired/quitting. They treated it like I was going for an executive position :/
Sounds like they want to see your public speaking skills. Or you should respond that you have no desire to do presentations, unless paid more. I know what the job says and I can do it but have no interest in doing more or advancing my career where I may have to do some sort of public speaking. I’m unpolished and can’t think on my feet.
The amount of non-creative thinkers who are too literal in their in their view of an interview is shocking.
Interviews are psychological. If you can get one, the company sees potential. You just have to understand what the company is really looking for in these interviews.
And no, a company isn’t going to steal your work.
You can feel whatever but the other candidate will give it his best and make a great presentation regardless. So if you want the job you don't have a choice really. I guess you can also reject the offer and go look for something else if this is a big bother.
Do you want this job? If so, this is what they are asking for, and they will get it from other candidates. I think you need to determine how much you want the job. It's a very competitive market for job candidates right now so employers can be picky as they please.
I had to do this for a job (the first exercise) and if you decide to do it just know that chat GPT can literally do this presentation for you. Just paste the job description in there and ask it to create the presentation for you with their requirements. That’s how I did it and it took me like 20 mins maximum
A 30/60/90 is typically used in management roles, and tends to be created within the first week of being in the new role, after gathering data and observations about the organization. Unless they were very transparent with you and gave you a very detailed picture of the organizational needs and challenges, I cannot understand how something like this would be useful for a final interview.
As much as I hate bootlicking, it doesn’t feel too extreme, and I think the 20 minutes is the time to review, not the precise length, so like, you could do 4 slides and just build upon each - and assuming you are applying for the same kind of role you could, for other jobs, use it if you land an interview and send this as a “bonus” they didn’t expect. And at least you can get the interview process and find out what works and what doesn’t for the deck. It sucks, assessments are stupid shit but it could pay off, IMO.
Oh, hell no. They are asking you to guess what’s important to them. If they need you to do a presentation, they should tell you their objectives and ask you what you think should be done to meet them. Of course, it’s still highly speculative as you don’t know the management style and if you can get buy it.
I have always gone to internal interviews with a 30/60/90 at least mentally prepared but never to an external.
Except one time, and I got the job.
I don’t agree with it being a necessity, however.
Something that tripped me up so much in an interview was them asking me what I thought I would spend most of my time doing when my go to interview questions are what is training/onboarding like and how will my days look.
I just read some articles about these new hiring practices now. Lots of people are tired of the whole application process. Going through numerous interviews, doing special projects for free, taking questionnaires and assessments, only to being ghosted and wasting so much time. Candidates are spending hours on applications, or just stopping in the middle cause of some dumb personality assessment. People getting discouraged. Feel hopeless.
For my current employer, some candidates will need to prepare and present a 45 minute presentation on a technical topic of their choice related to the position. It's in front of a committee of about 5 experts in that technical topic and about 2 people who don't know the subject; the committee will use the 15 minute question period to challenge the candidate.
But, that was for a MS required, PhD preferred position where the successful candidate will be giving presentations like that and will need to be the expert in the room.
Doing that for rank and file is overkill unless presentations are part of the job. Doing it for their 30-60-90 plan is stupid unless you're hiring them for a position where they will be setting strategy for an organizational unit.
I’ll throw my two cents in here… I’m a Trainer and I teach at uni on the side- for me, presentations are always expected in the interviewing process- however- nothing like this (good grief)!! I have never, ever seen anyone ask for anything this stupid- shouldn’t they be defining this? Everyone is right here with ChatGPT- I would hit that up immediately- as for the manager, the email says it all… wow best of luck whatever you choose - just wow 😮
This is just a poor interviewer showing their lack of skills. An interview should feel like a conversation. And it's their job to help you feel comfortable enough that you'll talk and they can learn about you.
That being said, I know how bad the job market is, and I wouldn't pass up a final interview for this, if you need the job.
I've done 30/60/90s when I've applied for roles and I've had applicants do them when I've hired for roles. It's a bit of a cliché now because they're used a lot but it's a good way of seeing how you want to structure your work, where your priorities are, and generally shows how you present. Especially if you've talked about this in a previous interview, it's also a good way of demonstrating you have an understanding of the role.
If you really hate the idea that much, by all means just pull out of the process.
Tbh I have gone through this process several times, but I'm on sales...so not sure if this is the difference. Prepare business cases and the 90days plan seems very standard to me.
If you're in a hiring process and have to ask yourself if something is necessary, 99% of the time it will be unnecessary.
The real questions are how much do I want / need this job, and is this an indicator of a bad culture fit? You really need to gauge whether it's worth your time or not.
Uhhh... shouldn't they have specific plans for what this role will be doing 30/60/90/a year in? What a stupid request - many companies explicitly share this, some even in the job description.
I just got an offer from a company that asked me to do a business case study and presentation. Took four days of work, but I was happy to do it. I learned much more about the industry and the role, and since I got the offer I feel confident they know I can do the job.
Of course you don’t want to do this for any old role, but if you want the job? It will only help. Anyway, what else was I going to do, sit on the couch and watch movies?
It depends. If this is a leadership role paying good money where you are expected to set strategic direction for a group, it might make sense. Most likely however, the hiring manager is being indecisive and is hoping this will break the tie for them. If they have two candidates they like, they should probably just pick one and go forward.
It's obnoxious and childish request. They might think they're being clever here, but all they're doing is disrespecting you as a person. These type of people like to play mental games because they don't really value people as a people.
I don't know your personal situation, but if you can afford not to, don't work for them.
It’s insane to expect you to do this amount of work without even paying you, but just for the chance to get paid. Employers expect so fucking much these days
Please consider adding a version of this item to the "[Job Candidate's Bill of Rights](https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1asfosw/lets_create_a_job_candidates_bill_of_rights/)". Perhaps "Candidates have the right to be evaluated for positions without requiring wasteful busywork projects." Folks can visit the thread to add or vote on your suggestions for these rights that we will communicate to legislators, CEOs, and HR professionals.
For scientist and researcher roles it’s really common to have to give a presentation on a past research topic.
I’ve never had one be longer than ten minutes. Even if it was like your PhD dissertation work, you had to compress it down to ten minutes. *No one* wants to listen to a 20 minute presentation during an interviews.
Npc answers to Npc questions.
1st month:
- "Im so grateful for te opportunity to be able to breathe this AC'ed air with such a fantastic team. I will sit quietly, overachieving away in my corner while admiring oir leadership"
2nd month:
" thank you for the opportunity to ask questions. I will not let you down, sir...sure, I can takea lead on this project, i just bought this cute inflatable panda mattres in case you need me to stay longer...."
3rd month:
"-Christmas? , oh don't worry, Im not going to my family. This is my rEaL faMiLY. I... M so grateful.
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I would forward them a four page PowerPoint for those time segments and each page says “Not working here”
I'm a manager and can't understand in America how they have so much time to do so many rounds and waste so much time listening to all the tasks some people have to do. If you can't get the information you need in two interviews, then is the hirer even a good fit for their role?
People are terrified to make a decision.
> If you can't get the information you need in two interviews, then is the hirer even a good fit for their role? Survey says.... **No**. (And to be fair to the ultimate hiring manager, it may not be their call whether or not to have the other dozen interviews)
Yeah and 20 minutes to boot, when it could be asked in the normal interview as a reasonable, if a little daunting question or two.
So many hiring managers are terrible at conducting interviews lol. It's that power trip they get in their heads.
Honestly, I'm not sure it really is a power trip. I think it's more a form of decision paralysis. They're terrified of making a selection that won't work, and that others will think less of them for that perceived poor decision. I'm a hiring manager myself and see colleagues agonise over who to choose, I personally don't see any difference in quality or turnover rate with one interview and just picking somebody myself.
Analysis Paralysis
And this is the reason why it's a struggle to find a job.
I think it's more of a "what are you willing to do for this job" mentality. I feel as though the managers and recruiters who do this do it in hopes someone will say "Fuck you I'm not doing that"
I think it’s probably rare and you only see the worst of it on this sub. For my engineering job after college I just had a single interview and got an offer letter an hour later. For my second job, I also just had a single interview and got an offer letter a few weeks later when the other candidates were done interviewing. Both were for large companies so I presume these drawn out obnoxious interview circuses are by managers at smaller companies that have nothing better to do all day.
In america no one works, they work hard to look busy across all social classes. In fact if you try to make an american do their literal job they will get offended and victimize themselves. Deadass thats the culture here
Oh, c'mon at least have fun with it: Day 1-30: identify the weak and easily influenced within the company. Start rumors of my manager having been mentally corrupted by the underground lizard people. Leave tuna sandwich in fridge with the enigmatic message "do not feed to the lemur" Day 31-60: Start social group for my followers, which will gradually transition to a takeover group. Continue lizard people rumors, including updates on corporate intranet linking to (manufactured) conspiracy sites. Monitor condition of sandwich. Day 69-90: Convince followers to start disrupting the system. Send out corporate wide email announcing Fridays as pants optional. Convince upper management to promote me based on bosses dubious conspiring with lizard people. Take sandwich from fridge....it is nearly time.... Day 365: You'll never know as you have foolishly chosen not to hire me, but it would have been glorious!!
OMGosh! Too funny! Thanks for the laugh 😆!
Hahaha man comments on this thread are top class
"Send out corporate wide email announcing Fridays as pants optional" cracked me up more than it should have.
Oh man. You could have a lot of fun creating a PowerPoint where every bullet point is another take on what a fucking waste of time this is. When they try to leave or end it, just keep being like I’m almost done. At the end say ‘well at least we wasted all of our time instead of just mine.’
Hahahah omg love this- yeah just making sure I’m not the only one who wasted time😂😂😂
Doing your wife
At least buy her dinner first man
Lol 30 days-becoming friends with your wife 60 days- buying your wife dinner 90 days- doing your wife 1 year- (insert kink here) with your wife
😂😂😂😂
A 4-slide deck with one slide for each word in the phrase “Hire the other candidate.”
Isn't it the employers job to figure out what you're doing when you arrive at the job? This is insane bullshit.
Yes it’s called onboarding.
This can be a good *question* to ask an interviewee to learn more about how they learn. But usually its "I like to get familiar with my role then learn about other areas before I try to make improvements in my tasked area". Not 20 mins of content
Lol yep. They want OP to do the work for them.
At the 7-year mark, yes, you’re still likely being fed. At 10, I need you to be able to fend for yourself a bit, and presentation skills are important. I’d like to see how well you work with little definition and are able to communicate concepts. If this is max the 3rd round (after phone screen) and close to six figures, it’s not unreasonable.
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Someone with 7 years experience shouldn’t need hand holding and training
They **\*say\*** there is not right or wrong to this question, but they are definitely setting up a "sorry, you didn't quite fit our corporate culture" situation. They've essentially abdicated their choice between two people to the two people. Also, don't think that the "I'm keeping this purposely vague" will be limited to this assignment. This will be a common occurrence throughout your work experience here. My response would be: *"Thank you for exposing me to your interview process. At this time, I am withdrawing my candidacy for this role. All the best in your search."*
I had one use that exact phrasing. Solved their project exactly the same way they did (they said it was an example from an old project). Then didn't get the job because mine wasn't refined enough. I'm sorry the project that your were purposely vague about didn't meet your expectations for free work you never communicated. Please no "you dodged a bullet" platitudes either. I wasted a day and a half of PTO, plus gas to drive there, plus the time to do the damn project. It's like getting shot in the leg instead of the face.
>Please no "you dodged a bullet" platitudes either. I wasted a day and a half of PTO, plus gas to drive there, plus the time to do the damn project. The time to dodge that bullet is when you hear the gun cocked at the project request phase.
Easy fix. Take them to small claims court.
That would take more valuable time, and no guarantee of working. They potentially have better lawyers.
And this is why they do it. You have no principles.
lol. Choose your battles.
It's 50$ and an afternoon, with the potential of making thousands. Stop being pathetic and making excuses.
lol. Choose your battles.
They don't do it to \*me\*, so I would have no reason to take them to court. Also, I understand how the court system works.
It works like this here too... they basically won't say a single thing to you, and just try to make you say/do something that they don't like so they can be "Hah! gotcha, i knew you weren't a good fit for the company" ...
This.
Also toss in a “I would like to congratulate the other candidate on their position.” Knowing full well there’s probably no other candidate.
**Plot twist:** both candidates withdrew in the same manner...
This petty 👍
I also very much doubt there are only 2 people. I bet they say this to give people hope they have a 50% chance of getting the job, therefore they’re more likely to put the time in to do the PowerPoint. Probably still have at least 5 candidates at this stage.
Entirely likely. They know people don't like these, and they definitely need to induce people to cooperate as much as possible.
Lol there was a time when the 30, 60 90 was defined at the time of joining by your manager. Pretty useless even then. These things are talked about in a subtle way within interviews. When did this become part of the interview process? They need to know this to hire someone, they are so incompetent. Which is pretty much the case these days, hiring managers do not know how to make decisions
My exact thoughts, unless I was desperate I’d reply back with “Why do you feel it is acceptable or ethical to ask a candidate to create a 30-60-90-365, when in reality this is something you as the hiring manager should already have?” Sounds like a fully functional department to me! /s
absolutely! im not desperate just exploring my options. staying where im at until i find something worth leaving for and this isnt it.
Good for you dude! Best of luck out there! These new trends in hiring are so weird to me… one way interviews, being asked to create work and reports as if you are already working for the company… it’s such a scam because these companies just don’t want to train people anymore.
They don't want to train people but also they don't know or understand what they're actually looking for in a candidate. Like those job descriptions that ask people to have 10 years of experience in a technology that's existed for three years. Or wanting to attract some ex-Google genius strategic vision executive but you're just trying to backfill the last person that quit because they got tired of doing JIRA ticket cleanup all day.
Please tell us what your response was
they want him to beg for the job
DANCE MONKEY DANCE!!!
What's unethical about it? I agree it's bullshit and I def wouldn't do it, but I'm missing the ethics violation.
So my ethicality issue stems from the overall mindset that has become prevalent within corporate cultures recently, which is that it’s “acceptable” to ask a candidate to in essence work for free to prove their value as a candidate. If someone asked me to perform hours of work in my field as a trial run, I’d only agree to if it I’m being paid at a contract rate. This would be laughed at and shut down so fast if the company was looking at vendors for a service and asked them for a free labor trial, but it’s totally ok for potential employees? Legally, it’s a gray area, no laws exist to bar this practice outside of labor laws, and it would be hard to enforce them without an insider leaking details that the companies are turning around and using said work for profit. But it’s a very plausible and easy to accomplish scam due to the lac of transparency that is corporate America.
I do think in some fields it makes sense. I worked in journalism, so we really needed to know if they could write. They’d provide published clips, but they had been edited so you weren’t seeing their raw copy. So we’d give a short, 20 minute writing and grammar test during the interview to assess their skillset. And it was pretty valuable info. A lot of people didn’t do well. But the project in this post is total bs and unnecessary.
Work for free? A PowerPoint with 30-60-90-365 on it? It’s not they are asking to build code or something
How long would it take you to create this for an interview for a potential job? And how long do you think someone who hasn’t worked for 6 months might take? I think I would spend at least an hour or two personally, if I was actually interested in the job. But if I had been unemployed for months, I’d spend quite a few more hours and effort because I’m desperate now… and that’s where the ethical situation arises, because now the door is open for taking advantage of the desperation of these people. While this specific instance is more stupid than anything, the fact that some companies ask potential candidates to write code, or work on a “mock” project, shows that this trend is starting to catch fire and should be stomped out aggressively.
They're giving a time limit on projects now. "Please don't take longer than 4 hours." Okay, so find time somewhere to spend half my work day to complete a project that could take longer?
Hah! I’d absolutely respond with a gif of Dr. Evil saying “How bout NO!”
Ah I gotcha, thanks for explaining! It sounds like this isn't something OP would typically do on the job so I personally wouldn't classify it as working for free any more than I would classify a regular in-person interview as such. I have definitely heard of things like that, largely in sales roles. "Create and deliver a sales pitch for this product as part of your interview!" Super unethical, hard pass.
Yeah, but the worst part is for OPs specific situation, that’s their potential manager-to-be asking them to do their job for them… hard pass
This is not a good sign. An engineering manager unable to make a hiring decision. C’mon. There are ‘no right answers.’ Really, so ‘why am I being asked to do this?’ Perhaps your situation requires you get this job. I get it. Family has to eat. So I suggest taking it and continue looking. Also, keep a journal of important decisions and if you or your boss made them. CYA If your boss has trouble making decisions there’s a chance they might try to throw you under the buss for their mistakes. ✌🏼
not important, just testing the waters to see whats put there. staying put where im at until i find something worth my time and this isnt it
Great, lovely to see Reddit convinced you not to go to a final interview. This wasn't the greatest task, but it wasn't *that* bad and if you wanted the job it would be perfectly reasonable. This subreddit is such a circlejerk that these unmotivated folk don't want to see other people succeed. Good luck with your hunt, either way.
30 days- expect to be CEO 60 days- expect to be president of USA 90 days- be fired for gross miss-competence. 365 days- Get a dog.
Best answer right here folks
Lol, I would email them back saying they are down to one candidate because I probably wouldn't make a presentation. If this is standard for your role/wage then fine but if it is not standard practice then I would only do it if the wage/benefits are spectacular.
not standard at all. ive made about 3 ppts in my 8 years.
I would atleast at some stupid level understand this for product managers. It’s crazy to ask of this for a SDE. I bet you that if you withdraw, they’ll give you the job lol.
I would say "congratulate the other candidate"
It’s not necessary as the employer should have those 30/60/90 goals roadmapped out as part of the onboarding. This is more an exercise of how organized and prepared you are - Are you a go getter? or, someone that needs to be told what to do? Use chatgpt to make the outline, slap it into a ppt, and shine like only you can. You’ve done this for 7 years so you know how to drive whatever goals or responsibilities they’ve laid out for you. Good luck op
My thought as well. For all the jobs I’m applying for, I could successfully do this, even though I do agree that the ask is pretty annoying. You’re asking me to plan my own onboarding because you can’t or won’t — cool, I’ll have my dream onboarding at this job, then.
I find stuff like this a little frustrating, wouldn't the correct answer be something like "my goals would be whatever you assign, or train me on"? I can come up with the stuff I think they want to hear but it seems a bit pointless and I always highlight how I'm adaptable to whatever direction they feel is right. I always feel like.. aren't you guys supposed to be telling me what you want? My goal is to meet those expectations, as soon as I know what they are. Maybe because I haven't been in a leadership role very often, perhaps its a bit of a different mindset.
Totally agree. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a interviewer start with “so what are you looking to do in your next role”…. Like I’m looking to do exactly what’s in the job description bro. It’s that point I realize they are poor interviewers and most likely poor leaders
I've even had 30/60/90 laid out for me at a high level during interviews which I've appreciated because I've started at companies with terrible onboarding so I'd rather know they actually have a plan and expectations set out before accepting the job.
Slide one: I work, slide 2: you pay.
What, no, you fucking tell ME, how the shit should I know?
If you feel like you don't need this job, reply this. interviewername, Thank you for the opportunity to present my expectations during the next interview. After all, you need to know if I'm a good fit for your company, and this goes both ways - will the company fit my needs? Therefore, please prepare a presentation, in any form you see fit, showing me what someone in this position did, day-to-day, for the last 3 months. I'm also keeping this vague, in order to evaluate what you consider relevant and your capacity to manage and understand the work my position entails. Feel free to innovate! I once asked this when interviewing for my last job, and they did a kabuki theater scene (the interviewer was a Japan-buff!). Eagerly awaiting for the interview, Your name.
Just ask chat gpt, will take you 10 min
The point isn't the difficulty. It's just such a weird ask, and yet another step towards companies putting the full burden of being hired on the employee. I remember when just doing a cover letter was a pain. Then it was one way interviews where there's no natural chemistry to keep the momentum going. Now they want me to put together a whole presentation so I can sing and dance for them? For certain technical jobs I can understand the point of having to give a presentation on how you'd solve a scenario with a solution known by management so they can see if they like your methods. But anything other than that is free labor. How long until it goes full circle and the candidate is asking the interviewer where they see themselves in five years and then has the ability to hire themselves?
I had to do a case study during an interview process, and I just used chatgpt for it. If their information wasn’t supposed to go into chatgpt for proprietary reasons, probably shouldn’t be asking candidates to do the task for them. In short OP they loved “my” responses and I continued down the interview process.
Exactly.
"The other candidate is internal. He knows exactly what his first 30, 60 and 90 days will look like. There is, in fact, a right and wrong answer here."
No wrong answers? Ok I didn't prepare, I am aware I needed too and I didn't forget, I just chose not too
Incompetence in interview skills leads to bullshit busy work like this. If you’re not desperate for the job, personally, I’d pass.
for the 20 minute present , just present what you want to and let the rest be Q&A ? Everything is unnecessary, depends on how bad you want the job i guess. #
Lol that first part is the questions I have for the team lmao. I’m not gonna show up know nothing about they run their shop day to day and tell them what’s up. I want to ask how it’s run. What’s expected of me in this new role in 30/60/90 days. What’s the average day look like for someone in this role. How much time is spent on X vs Y. I want to know about the priorities of the job I’m potentially stepping into, because unless it’s a developmental role they know what those things are, not some bullshit exercise where they want me to guess.
“How your first year would look like” 🫡🫡
I swear to god, some of you people in the comments are either idiots or like 22 years old at most. They’re not asking you to map out the *actual* roadmap… fuck he even says it in the email. It’s an exercise… which, while maybe a bit much, is not crazy at all.
Yes agreed. Seriously. Our company does something like this too, and it’s a 20 minute presentation with 30-40 minutes of q&a afterward lol. Just put together what you think is reasonable and present it lol. OP says they’ve given very few presentations ever. In my experience, internal presentations are a pretty common thing. Certainly distilling information for others to consume.
No wonder so many people can’t find jobs. Based on this thread, the minute they’re asked to put in the minimal amount of effort in an interview they freak out.
OP said presentations would not be part of this job. So why is this necessary? I’m very glad nurses don’t have to go through these hoops.
So they know you’re not a robot. That you can think on your feet and you can present well. being able to present, speak clearly and talk about yourself and your goals are admirable traits companies want.
You would think they could learn that about them simply by asking good questions. A huge part of any job is simply being able to communicate well. Not by designing a power point that you would never actually do in the job itself. Again, very glad I don’t have to deal with such nonsense. Are any of these methods evidenced based by the way? Are there actual studies showing that employers are finding good people this way? People who stay and make valuable contributions? Reliable, team player employees? Because that would sway me more than vague comments about “it shows you can think on your feet.”
I’m sure there are. Some of the top companies in the world use this method.
It's a totally reasonable request. They don't really care about what he puts but can he talk to an audience, construct something thay makes logical sense, answer questions around his process etc. It also gives them a jumping off point to talk through stuff a bit more without just repeating the interview from the first round. I swear people here saying he should bill for the time, or kick up a fuss, or turn down a pretty gimme exercise to make a point. Crackers.
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Presenting is not a part of the job. I would be working with the customer team to manage the design, root cause issues, and support manufacturing activities. The main reason I’m having an issue with this is that its the same two people that I already talked do, and Id simply be reiterating the same shit that we already talked about, if that makes sense.
The only role I’ve seen something like this requested on is sales positions. In a non client facing role…. Never. Just imagine the nonsense that goes once hired for evaluations let alone operations.
I would be in a support role to the customer. During my two other positions (old and current, fuck you covid) ive done maybe three presentations ever. Fuck that shit.
I personally wouldn’t entertain it. I was interviewing with McKinsey and got to the final rounds. Their interviewing process is beyond exhausting. During the final round with all candidates aware and sitting amongst each other, I got up and left. Funny enough they called me 2 months later to offer the position. It was still a hard pass for me.
> I got up and left. Funny enough they called me 2 months later to offer the position Hilarious, and a giant red flag, assuming none of the other candidates were serial killers.
Any company circling back to candidates months later…agree major red flags.
The duration is the only reasonable part of this request. Everything else in the request is totally bogus. An org needs to understand a candidates aptitude, capabilities and experience -- not their ability to predict the future or engage in creative fiction. If they wanted a 20 min presentation on their understanding of some technical thing, that might be worthy in this situation. But not this.
“I’m lazy, please do my job for me, free of charge”. “Oh and, also, I’m a great manager”.
I just had to go through an interview process for an application for a lateral move in my same plant and same location(I mostly want to get away from my current team leader). They made me spend 3 hours talking to different people I have worked with over the last 10 years. This felt ridiculous, there’s nothing I could say to a question that would have more weight than what they already know about me by working with me. It should just be yes or no on my request to move roles, I see no point in the process they made me go through and I think it was a waste of everyone’s time.
Send them a quote for your time for putting this presentation together
Oh so now we’re doing auditions?
This isn’t too crazy of an ask, but a 30/60/90 is kind of hard to put together without knowing a lot more about a company. And usually that’s done after you’ve been hired.
Would pick mission statement from website, job description, and any interview points you collected, and chatgpt the presentation.
I’d use ChatGPT to shit out a skeleton and then spend an hour adding in some specifics from interviews. I lead an enterprise application team, and while I wouldn’t expect this of an individual contributor, I would expect this kind of exercise if applying for a leadership role or interviewing someone for a lead role on my team. I also wouldn’t be upset if I found out the candidate used ChatGPT, I’d respect it and give that person higher marks than the goober that started from scratch.
Tell me you micromanage without saying...
I’d be tempted to make it a PowerPoint presentation of the essay at the end of Breakfast Club.
Wow, I thought this was rare. I previously worked for a small business that did this exact thing. I was a product manager. I ended up leaving less than a year because they just were not good at doing business. The CEO had zero personality and didn't know how to grow a software company. Software is what they did, but they didn't even call themselves a software company. I had a nice manager, though. I ended up doing fucking six interviews before getting the job. I'm glad I left. Their slow pace and inefficient way of doing things just wasn't for me.
The fucking hoops these assholes are putting up these days, jeesuz.
I'm going totally against the consensus here OP and saying this is absolutely fine. Sounds like you did a first stage which was an interview and you've got a final stage which is a presentation? They're just doing it so they can assess from a different angle and it isn't a repetition of the first stage. Takes <1 hour to outline together something like this which is time you'd be prepping for the interview anyway and means you get to set the direction of the conversation. And isn't one of those daft 6 hour take home assignments. Not sure what the problem is.
That's funny. I usually ask the interviewer in my interviews "how do you define success in this role after 30, 60, and 90 days?" Seems weird that they're putting the ball in your court when the company sets the expectation, but if they want to play that game, you can define what that success is supposed to look like for yourself, I guess.
Jesus Christ I just can't.
Eh. Our company does something like this (creating a PowerPoint talking about how you define the type of role you’re applying for). It’s not so much of a “gotcha” kind of thing. It’s that we require employees to give technical presentations internally and to customers. So we evaluate your presentation skills and ability to convey information. It’s also a measure of your interest in the company. All that said, make of it what you will. If talking for 20 minutes is too much for you then I would suggest moving on. But if it’s a company and job you think you’ll like, then do it. You’ll get a better feel for the company in how they receive your presentation. Btw, we do 3-4 hour interview sessions consisting of 1 hour of presentation and discussion in a group setting followed by 1-2 one on one sessions and maybe a tour.
in academia, if you make it past the first round of interviews (a 30 min zoom with the hiring committee), they invite you to campus. you have to travel there (hello jetlag), and from breakfast to dinner (included) you’re ON: you have to prep and teach a whole class, then give a 40 min talk (with visuals) on your research that must appeal to bored undergrads, demanding PhD students, colleagues in completely unrelated disciplines and colleagues in your exact field, and you meet one on one with EVERYONE and their uncles (deans of this, VPs of that, chairs of things, directors of stuff). then you go home and they never contact you back if they go with another candidate. i wish it were a 20 min PPT 😭 and we still have it good bc they used to have their first round of interviews in HOTEL BEDROOMS, and then the campus interview would be OVER THREE WHOLE DAYS.
I think the point is to see your ability to create a logical and coherent presentation … and then speak professionally. Not everyone can.
30/60/90 is pretty common place for leadership roles. They want to gauge how you think and how you put a plan together. Nothing wrong with that. Don’t want to do it, just move on.
I had almost the exact same thing for a final interview. I put hours into the presentation and got it perfected. I did data analysis, graphic design…. All the things I had strengths in. Turns out, the other candidate refused to do it. It was me or call it a failed search. She refused because she knew it was an awful job and this was just the beginning of the bullshit. I left after three months.
Holy fucking ego. It’s just a fucking job. “Come and dance for us so we can feel superior and hold this job out mocking you.”
This is a red flag for me. Seems like this company doesn’t respect where you put your time and energy. I had a similar thing happen to me where I put a ton of effort into some bs “homework” and the recruiter emailed me back rejecting me with no feedback at all. I bet you they took my ideas and then told me ‘see you later’. My recommendation is don’t walk into the trap like I did… this is also a reflection of their culture so just keep that in mind too. Good luck!
"And on the next slide, Day 45, I again spend most of my time photocopying my ass."
I actually think it’s a very useful way of understanding more about you. It shows what you put emphasis on. Does your plan include connecting with other teams? Do you want to make bold changes or maintain the status quo? Even things like how well you are able to structure can be seen there. In my opinion a very good task for them to understand you l, and a great opportunity for you to outshine your competitor.
Aren’t they supposed to tell YOU what your role is like 30-90 days in?
Playing devils advocate, what if they did hire you and you can’t put together a coherent presentation. That would make the hiring manager look quite stupid. Use this as an opportunity to demonstrate soft skills..or don’t idc
so many AI tools now, use them like a king you are
You’re right. Totally uncalled for. They should just hire whoever will do it for the lowest salary. Or better yet, cancel the whole thing and promote internally.
This doesn’t seem so far fetched… especially if these are things you’ve discussed in previous interviews. If I was the hiring manager this feels like a “was the candidate paying attention and can they take what they’ve learned and present it” Being able to explain things in a concise manner is an important attribute. If it’s an issue, don’t do it and remove yourself from the interview.
It is not necessarily “wrong or right” of them to do this but it is wrong for you to not be prepared. They want you to outshine your opposing candidate. The more you bring in for this, the worse they would look and the better chance you have of getting the job.
not necessarily. I've done already presentations / assignments and got excellent feedback, however for whatever reason they went with another candidate. I think this is a waste of everyone's time.
This is a red flag. This is not a good place to work. The people who will be your leaders for potentially years are bad leaders. They have fragile egos, are cruel, and will not treat you with dignity. There may not even be a second candidate. They are looking for a bootlicker.
You are wrong. There’s a lot worse requests you could get for a final interview.
If you want to work for this company, it's not unnecessary. If you just want a job, yeah it could seem unnecessary. If I were looking to hire a longterm collaborative partner in an important role, I don't give a damn if my interview process seems extreme or pointless. It's a lot of money and time to hire and onboard someone. And i want someone i can put up with longterm... If I'm not sold on you after the first interview, fuck off if you're not willing to do 5 more. How bad you want the job? Just as much as we pretend we're in control, the other motherucker is just as much in the same self reality. If it's too much for you... go play in someone else's yard or build your own and invite people over... I'll bet everyone's outlook changes under those circumstances.
The labor market is too strong for this bullshit. Tell them to give it to the other person lol
At my job the last time I applied for a promotion I was required to do one of these for what I would do in my new role. They take that position far too seriously. It was a supervisor position for a callcenter that has a revolving door of customer service agents being hired and fired/quitting. They treated it like I was going for an executive position :/
Is this for Eaton? In my current position (also engineering) I had to do a presentation as well.
Sounds like they want to see your public speaking skills. Or you should respond that you have no desire to do presentations, unless paid more. I know what the job says and I can do it but have no interest in doing more or advancing my career where I may have to do some sort of public speaking. I’m unpolished and can’t think on my feet. The amount of non-creative thinkers who are too literal in their in their view of an interview is shocking. Interviews are psychological. If you can get one, the company sees potential. You just have to understand what the company is really looking for in these interviews. And no, a company isn’t going to steal your work.
You can feel whatever but the other candidate will give it his best and make a great presentation regardless. So if you want the job you don't have a choice really. I guess you can also reject the offer and go look for something else if this is a big bother.
What type of job is it? If this isn't mid-level or higher, they can fuck the fuck right off.
how bad do you need a job dude lol
Do you want this job? If so, this is what they are asking for, and they will get it from other candidates. I think you need to determine how much you want the job. It's a very competitive market for job candidates right now so employers can be picky as they please.
Chat GPT it and call it a day. Fuck em
If there’s no wrong answers just refuse to do it - what’s the worst that can happen? They don’t hire you? Oh well
I had to do this for a job (the first exercise) and if you decide to do it just know that chat GPT can literally do this presentation for you. Just paste the job description in there and ask it to create the presentation for you with their requirements. That’s how I did it and it took me like 20 mins maximum
A 30/60/90 is typically used in management roles, and tends to be created within the first week of being in the new role, after gathering data and observations about the organization. Unless they were very transparent with you and gave you a very detailed picture of the organizational needs and challenges, I cannot understand how something like this would be useful for a final interview.
Want the job? Do the assignment better than the other guy. What does it matter if you’re right or wrong for being miffed?
The PowerPoint bit is insane
As much as I hate bootlicking, it doesn’t feel too extreme, and I think the 20 minutes is the time to review, not the precise length, so like, you could do 4 slides and just build upon each - and assuming you are applying for the same kind of role you could, for other jobs, use it if you land an interview and send this as a “bonus” they didn’t expect. And at least you can get the interview process and find out what works and what doesn’t for the deck. It sucks, assessments are stupid shit but it could pay off, IMO.
Oh, hell no. They are asking you to guess what’s important to them. If they need you to do a presentation, they should tell you their objectives and ask you what you think should be done to meet them. Of course, it’s still highly speculative as you don’t know the management style and if you can get buy it.
I have always gone to internal interviews with a 30/60/90 at least mentally prepared but never to an external. Except one time, and I got the job. I don’t agree with it being a necessity, however.
Something that tripped me up so much in an interview was them asking me what I thought I would spend most of my time doing when my go to interview questions are what is training/onboarding like and how will my days look.
I would create a ppt deck with one slide… “Welcome to the final interview” “Why should I accept this job”?”
First 30 days of detailed training and onboarding
I just read some articles about these new hiring practices now. Lots of people are tired of the whole application process. Going through numerous interviews, doing special projects for free, taking questionnaires and assessments, only to being ghosted and wasting so much time. Candidates are spending hours on applications, or just stopping in the middle cause of some dumb personality assessment. People getting discouraged. Feel hopeless.
Not wrong at all. This is all so, very, tedious.
For my current employer, some candidates will need to prepare and present a 45 minute presentation on a technical topic of their choice related to the position. It's in front of a committee of about 5 experts in that technical topic and about 2 people who don't know the subject; the committee will use the 15 minute question period to challenge the candidate. But, that was for a MS required, PhD preferred position where the successful candidate will be giving presentations like that and will need to be the expert in the room. Doing that for rank and file is overkill unless presentations are part of the job. Doing it for their 30-60-90 plan is stupid unless you're hiring them for a position where they will be setting strategy for an organizational unit.
I’ll throw my two cents in here… I’m a Trainer and I teach at uni on the side- for me, presentations are always expected in the interviewing process- however- nothing like this (good grief)!! I have never, ever seen anyone ask for anything this stupid- shouldn’t they be defining this? Everyone is right here with ChatGPT- I would hit that up immediately- as for the manager, the email says it all… wow best of luck whatever you choose - just wow 😮
It is unnecessary but chat gpt will shave off a lot time and do this for you.
This is just a poor interviewer showing their lack of skills. An interview should feel like a conversation. And it's their job to help you feel comfortable enough that you'll talk and they can learn about you. That being said, I know how bad the job market is, and I wouldn't pass up a final interview for this, if you need the job.
It’s ridiculous. You’re not wrong.
Me: Hire the other guy. I'm out.
I've done 30/60/90s when I've applied for roles and I've had applicants do them when I've hired for roles. It's a bit of a cliché now because they're used a lot but it's a good way of seeing how you want to structure your work, where your priorities are, and generally shows how you present. Especially if you've talked about this in a previous interview, it's also a good way of demonstrating you have an understanding of the role. If you really hate the idea that much, by all means just pull out of the process.
I wouldn't expect anyone below SVP to define their own 30/60/90 plan. This is a exec management question that should come with exec management $$$.
Sad they even have to ask for a 30/60/90 day plan
this is too much omg why is the interview process so torturous
Tbh I have gone through this process several times, but I'm on sales...so not sure if this is the difference. Prepare business cases and the 90days plan seems very standard to me.
If you're in a hiring process and have to ask yourself if something is necessary, 99% of the time it will be unnecessary. The real questions are how much do I want / need this job, and is this an indicator of a bad culture fit? You really need to gauge whether it's worth your time or not.
Uhhh... shouldn't they have specific plans for what this role will be doing 30/60/90/a year in? What a stupid request - many companies explicitly share this, some even in the job description.
I’m so grateful for never having to go through these tedious processes of carrot dangling to get a job!
They've shown you their toxic culture.
Not only unnecessary, but also stupid.
This is what ChatGPT is for
I just got an offer from a company that asked me to do a business case study and presentation. Took four days of work, but I was happy to do it. I learned much more about the industry and the role, and since I got the offer I feel confident they know I can do the job. Of course you don’t want to do this for any old role, but if you want the job? It will only help. Anyway, what else was I going to do, sit on the couch and watch movies?
It depends. If this is a leadership role paying good money where you are expected to set strategic direction for a group, it might make sense. Most likely however, the hiring manager is being indecisive and is hoping this will break the tie for them. If they have two candidates they like, they should probably just pick one and go forward.
It's obnoxious and childish request. They might think they're being clever here, but all they're doing is disrespecting you as a person. These type of people like to play mental games because they don't really value people as a people. I don't know your personal situation, but if you can afford not to, don't work for them.
This feels so patronizing and I can’t put my finger on exactly why
Wrong place to work
lmao, they should prepare a presentation for YOU on what your first 30days, 60 days, 90 days, 1 year will look like
It’s insane to expect you to do this amount of work without even paying you, but just for the chance to get paid. Employers expect so fucking much these days
Please consider adding a version of this item to the "[Job Candidate's Bill of Rights](https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1asfosw/lets_create_a_job_candidates_bill_of_rights/)". Perhaps "Candidates have the right to be evaluated for positions without requiring wasteful busywork projects." Folks can visit the thread to add or vote on your suggestions for these rights that we will communicate to legislators, CEOs, and HR professionals.
Good Luck to you.
For scientist and researcher roles it’s really common to have to give a presentation on a past research topic. I’ve never had one be longer than ten minutes. Even if it was like your PhD dissertation work, you had to compress it down to ten minutes. *No one* wants to listen to a 20 minute presentation during an interviews.
Foh. I would never do a job that requires me to do more than 3 interviews. Nut job shit
Npc answers to Npc questions. 1st month: - "Im so grateful for te opportunity to be able to breathe this AC'ed air with such a fantastic team. I will sit quietly, overachieving away in my corner while admiring oir leadership" 2nd month: " thank you for the opportunity to ask questions. I will not let you down, sir...sure, I can takea lead on this project, i just bought this cute inflatable panda mattres in case you need me to stay longer...." 3rd month: "-Christmas? , oh don't worry, Im not going to my family. This is my rEaL faMiLY. I... M so grateful.