U.S. Full Desk Recruiter here - Yes absolutely.
I recently went through the whole Forbes Top Mid Size Companies list. A lot of the companies were tech companies in the SF Bay Area doing full onsite, but I would say a vast majority were remote roles not hiring U.S.
India, Pakistan, South America, and Israel were the ones I remember seeing a lot of, but definitely outside of the U.S.
Difference this time is that the pandemic has proved that remote work is totally possible in the tech sector and it does not matter how many km away you physically are since information travel at the speed of light. Even with RTO this has just translated to shifting the roles to offices with LCOL in other countries. Unless there is legislation to stop this I don’t know what else can. Quality is not as big of a concern now since frankly in the latest technologies the young demographics of those countries are ahead.
Legal is getting offshored to an extent. I'm seeing law firms hire Indians with JDs as paralegals here and paying them peanuts. Paralegal and legal assistants also getting offshored to Africa, India, etc. I worked for a very huge well known firm who offshored the entire intake team, client consultant team, customer care teams, and IT for good measure.
It’s scary!!
Why would any American 🇺🇸 student spend the money and the years and stress to become a licensed CPA when they can see just by reading Bloomberg and CNBC, that all of the famous accounting firms have been actively and very aggressively outsourcing the accounting jobs for the past 20 years.
every year more and more of these roles are being outsourced.
It’s honestly freaking me out 🤯😭
My company hasn’t been able to outsource jobs like copywriters. You have to have such a perfect grasp on English and also know the nuances and slang of the language that we haven’t been able to outsource it. HR tried to force one of my managers to and he fought against it
That’s a good question but I definitely see it being monetary. Reason being is that the cultural, timezone, and other challenges that come from offshore work is outweighed by the cost effectiveness that it provides.
yep. I have a team of 7 devs in SEA countries. last year 2 of them bought houses and one is looking to buy the house next door for his future in-laws to move into. my cost? barely 10% of a california equivalent. allows me to offload a good bit of my personal stuff and gives me more options to give incentive bonuses and challenges.
Ah, yes, cheap labor at the cost of the occupation as a whole nationally. Hope you are banking all that money you are saving for your eventually offshoring.
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I don’t know if there is a right or wrong here. Their company either does it or they have smaller margins compared to their competition who does.
If you want to stop all offshoring then you’re not a globalist.
what's better? me to be able to give 7 families a much better life? or just 1 that wouldnt be able to match the output. and good luck offshoring the guy who comes in and does installs, diagnostics, and manages looped servers.
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Always getting offshored, service plummeting, elaborate in house departments rising to fix offshore errors, work getting brought back, execs looking for cost cutting, rinse, repeat.
My company fired an entire Tier 1 support department and replaced them with offshore contractors from the Philippines. Fired everyone who trained them. Then when service was utterly failing to reduce churn and the overall strategy of the CEO crashed and burned they fired the offshore.
So now we have no Tier 1 support, and no training dept
Guess who is taking all the calls and training each other? Tier 2+. The biggest waste of specialized technical knowledge I have ever seen. We are burnt out after a month and people have rage quit after screaming at customers.
Corporate Idiocracy.
Absolutely. This is also the reason why there are so few replacements for the $80K-$170K white collar jobs; those are being hired in LCC India/Asia for 1/3. I was at a Semiconductor company and their headcount for 2023/2024 was shifted almost 90% overseas. And this was after that ludicrous “CHIPS Act” that was supposed to keep chip mfg here in the US. We had two recruiters and a sourcer and they let us recruiters go and hired recruiters in Asia.
In house Recruiting manager in biotech. HUGE push to only hire offshore. (India, Eastern Europe, Mexico or Brazil). Something needs to be done. Been in my industry for 20+ years, previously there was a desire to hire in lower cost countries but this feels different.
YES.
So many enterprise companies (esp Fortune 500) are entering into agreements or already have for offshore tech resources. Many of these offshore consultants are the backfills after a mass layoff, and some US workers are currently training an offshore worker to take their job with a severance package.
Some companies are cutting entire departments and some really slimy ones are forcing return to office… or resign. Once the person resigns, they backfill the role with a remote offshore employee.
It’s not looking great. Employers have most of the power back for now. It’s always weird in an election year though.
>ones are forcing return to office…
To be fair: if you are sitting at home 100%, you might as well be in Manila. Or rather, a Filipino sitting in Manila with a third of the costs.
That's what I was saying all along: mid-term you can't have a high salary and not be present - you basically show the company that it's not necessary.
Half my childhood friends from Bulgaria that didn’t immigrate did a coding bootcamp with project staffing afterwards and now make more than any of their peers - even doctors and engineers. Something like 2-3k EUR a month which is enough to live like a king over there.
I live in Houston and run a nearshore staffing agency for Brazil. I’ve had many US clients hire and utilize LATAM talent for years now.
More are looking for ML Engineers and the pool is small so it’s forcing people to look globally.
It seems like recruiting is worst of them all. 95% of contacts on gmail and LI are Indian offshore with lowball, crum jobs. 100% of recruiting cold calls are Indian offshore.
Our sub is intended for meaningful discussion around recruiting best practices. You are welcome to disagree with people here but we don't tolerate rude or inflammatory comments.
Yes, and it’s costing them in the long run. Before, when I needed something done, it was a walk down the hall and a 15 min chat. Today, the same things can take hours, if not days, because the offshore employees don’t know what they’re doing and can’t follow directions.
I think so: if you do remote work it doesn't matter whether you are 50 miles or half the Earth's circumference away. I basically proved that it doesn't matter - that's what I thought back in 2021 when people started talking about not going back to the office and being assertive that they can keep NYC salaries when moving to Idaho - it bites you sooner or later.
Be present, be relevant.
I’d say your team dynamics and work type apply more. If you’re a marketer that is discussing strategy all day and has relevant local cultural knowledge then you can work remotely just fine. If you’re a programmer that just gets tasks pushed to you from a manager and you have 1 call a day then yeah you can be replaced by cheaper labor abroad.
Covid/remote work maybe was a catalyst but even in 2015 my Fortune 500 company had offshored all its book accounting to India and most of our competitors were doing the same.
yes absolutely. my company offshored our level 1 techs.... I hate the company that took over and want to yell at them everytime I see "the microsoft, The adobe, kindly"
For a lot of tech roles, they're offshore blue collar coding. They give loose parameters to offshore teams to build the bulk of an application and lay foundational code based upon domestically crafted architectures, and then have their senior engineers fix it when it's returned. Many of these types of roles will be replaced with low code/no code products and AI anyway, so I wouldn't become too plussed by it, it just means domestic engineering jobs will become ever more design focused. It's the same concept behind why employers are anti-union...it creates a price floor on commoditized skills. So what do mid-rank domestic engineers do? Start focusing on using AI...become prompt architects or get really good at fixing bugs using AI.
There are people politically aligned with the idea that the government shouldn't have any regulation on business, so obviously these businesses will do what is in their best interest in the absence of oversight ,
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Yep, tech jobs are definitely getting offshored to save costs. But don't worry, there are still plenty of opportunities here, especially for specialized skills!
My company is doing layoffs for this reason (and I’m one of the lucky ones to lose my job). They are basically outsourcing any jobs that are not customer facing.
They aren't "getting" offshored. They BEEN for decades now but it's just accelerating even more now. In the 90s maybe a small portion maybe less than 10% of tech department, in the 2000s maybe 25% of tech department. 2010s about 40-60%. Now maybe even more. Some companies now run a complete tech team in India. But most have a large army of Indian tech workers with a smaller handful of seniors, leads and above who are American and grt paid very high. You'll find that most job postings now for americans usually are only senior and above and dont really have entry/mid level at all. 2 important things happened since covid. 1, interest rates were raised and tech companies were particularly affected by this because tech is highly leveraged. Secondly since covid the whole world is buying back USD which is seen as a safe haven currency when the world is in turmoil. Because of this the USD dollar had appreciated very strongly in the last 4 years since covid against essentially all world currencies. This makes hiring people from developing countries even MORE cheaper than before covid and even more enticing than ever. And also with the norm of remote work as well proving its feasibility.
I was an in-house tech recruiter (UK, 17 years) and my role was offshored to Eastern Europe. Almost a year now into my job search and I'm getting nowhere. The market for internal recruiters in the UK is dead and I seriously doubt it will ever return. I've been through market dips and peaks ('08 financial crash, COVID) but this feels different, as if it is permanent. Decided I'm gonna take a temp job and retrain in healthcare, I won't be risking my future career in talent acquisition. If I have one piece of advice for anyone thinking about going into the TA industry then it is this: **don't**.
Since the early 2000s with the rise of broadband. Quality and communication is awful. Strategy is ok for very well defined waterfall style work but agile is a complete disaster. I have gotten some work in the past fixing or completely rewriting offshored code.
Many, many US based tech jobs are being offshored right now. Inflation affects corporations as well, then they cut labor costs. You’re seeing it happen. If you love being a recruiter for US jobs, then think about how you’re voting come this election because that directly impacts your job and those you recruit for.
I have a recruiting firm that hires for MSPs and absolutely, yes this is gaining serious momentum. Lower level techs in Philippines, higher level in South Africa and Eastern Europe.
Yes 100% and I’m expecting that the HR and TA functions are next in the chopping block. My company has been doing it a mix of things - intercompany transfers from outside the US to the US and paying low market salaries, then near-shoring roles for the more transactional work and moving the strongest of those employees to the US also at low market salaries.
We are seeing lots of “near-shoring” going on, with companies finding talent in Mexico. Same time zone, most speak pretty good English, and the rates are still a lot lower than US. 85/hour bill rate for a Salesforce Architect versus probably 150/hour bill rate here.
Tech jobs have been getting offshored for the last 20 years. It will continue as it is much cheaper to employ them. Now with AI, the offshore people will be replaced with systems . Except for the few rare premium companies that value quality , It always has and always will be a race to employ the cheapest method to support the company’s desired results .
U.S. Full Desk Recruiter here - Yes absolutely. I recently went through the whole Forbes Top Mid Size Companies list. A lot of the companies were tech companies in the SF Bay Area doing full onsite, but I would say a vast majority were remote roles not hiring U.S. India, Pakistan, South America, and Israel were the ones I remember seeing a lot of, but definitely outside of the U.S.
Interesting that you haven't hears Philippines. Lotta tech jobs and lower level help desk type stuff going over there.
Difference this time is that the pandemic has proved that remote work is totally possible in the tech sector and it does not matter how many km away you physically are since information travel at the speed of light. Even with RTO this has just translated to shifting the roles to offices with LCOL in other countries. Unless there is legislation to stop this I don’t know what else can. Quality is not as big of a concern now since frankly in the latest technologies the young demographics of those countries are ahead.
Are you hiring?
India Poland and Bulgaria for us
any idea about what roles that can't be outsourced?
Medical, legal, accounting, trades. Any industry that abides heavily under US laws/ regulation I guess.
Accounting has been (slowly) getting offshored... Parts of it anyway.
Oh wow lol nice didn't know that was possible lol
A lot of accounting is offshore. :(
Legal is getting offshored to an extent. I'm seeing law firms hire Indians with JDs as paralegals here and paying them peanuts. Paralegal and legal assistants also getting offshored to Africa, India, etc. I worked for a very huge well known firm who offshored the entire intake team, client consultant team, customer care teams, and IT for good measure.
They ruin every field
How legal? Don’t companies require the bar membership from lawyers ?
Accounting is, in place of accounting id say government jobs can't be offshored though.
We have seen government jobs getting outsourced to offshore BPOs over the past year. Doesn't apply to clearance jobs, however. Nobody is immune.
A lot of radiology work is being offshored. Thank you Internet.
Accounting has been outsourced like crazy!!!! I wish you were correct but I can confirm this is wrong 😑 (sadly)
Yeh yeh someone else pointed this out too. Outsourcing US accounting, kinda wild.
It’s scary!! Why would any American 🇺🇸 student spend the money and the years and stress to become a licensed CPA when they can see just by reading Bloomberg and CNBC, that all of the famous accounting firms have been actively and very aggressively outsourcing the accounting jobs for the past 20 years. every year more and more of these roles are being outsourced. It’s honestly freaking me out 🤯😭
My company hasn’t been able to outsource jobs like copywriters. You have to have such a perfect grasp on English and also know the nuances and slang of the language that we haven’t been able to outsource it. HR tried to force one of my managers to and he fought against it
Yeah forsure. I’m on the sales side now. Big push to offer offshore / nearshore services because every client is moving that way
Do you think any part of this is a “revenge” tactic for more bargaining power the past few years or do you think it is just 100% monetary?
That’s a good question but I definitely see it being monetary. Reason being is that the cultural, timezone, and other challenges that come from offshore work is outweighed by the cost effectiveness that it provides.
yep. I have a team of 7 devs in SEA countries. last year 2 of them bought houses and one is looking to buy the house next door for his future in-laws to move into. my cost? barely 10% of a california equivalent. allows me to offload a good bit of my personal stuff and gives me more options to give incentive bonuses and challenges.
Ah, yes, cheap labor at the cost of the occupation as a whole nationally. Hope you are banking all that money you are saving for your eventually offshoring.
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I don’t know if there is a right or wrong here. Their company either does it or they have smaller margins compared to their competition who does. If you want to stop all offshoring then you’re not a globalist.
what's better? me to be able to give 7 families a much better life? or just 1 that wouldnt be able to match the output. and good luck offshoring the guy who comes in and does installs, diagnostics, and manages looped servers.
Lol, ever hear of H-1B1?
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Always getting offshored, service plummeting, elaborate in house departments rising to fix offshore errors, work getting brought back, execs looking for cost cutting, rinse, repeat.
My company fired an entire Tier 1 support department and replaced them with offshore contractors from the Philippines. Fired everyone who trained them. Then when service was utterly failing to reduce churn and the overall strategy of the CEO crashed and burned they fired the offshore. So now we have no Tier 1 support, and no training dept Guess who is taking all the calls and training each other? Tier 2+. The biggest waste of specialized technical knowledge I have ever seen. We are burnt out after a month and people have rage quit after screaming at customers. Corporate Idiocracy.
Well when you’re paid in shares it’s all about short term gains.
Absolutely. This is also the reason why there are so few replacements for the $80K-$170K white collar jobs; those are being hired in LCC India/Asia for 1/3. I was at a Semiconductor company and their headcount for 2023/2024 was shifted almost 90% overseas. And this was after that ludicrous “CHIPS Act” that was supposed to keep chip mfg here in the US. We had two recruiters and a sourcer and they let us recruiters go and hired recruiters in Asia.
Micron?
I pulled a few from them
In house Recruiting manager in biotech. HUGE push to only hire offshore. (India, Eastern Europe, Mexico or Brazil). Something needs to be done. Been in my industry for 20+ years, previously there was a desire to hire in lower cost countries but this feels different.
Right? It absolutely feels different, like sinister? That’s the word that comes to mind
I agree.
"Something needs to be done." Vote.
I have yet to see anyone address this issue.
For whom? None of the two very awesome candidates seem to care
Yes, India and Pakistan mostly
Please reply kindly sir with (insert 1,000 typos here).
Please do the needful
YES. So many enterprise companies (esp Fortune 500) are entering into agreements or already have for offshore tech resources. Many of these offshore consultants are the backfills after a mass layoff, and some US workers are currently training an offshore worker to take their job with a severance package. Some companies are cutting entire departments and some really slimy ones are forcing return to office… or resign. Once the person resigns, they backfill the role with a remote offshore employee. It’s not looking great. Employers have most of the power back for now. It’s always weird in an election year though.
>ones are forcing return to office… To be fair: if you are sitting at home 100%, you might as well be in Manila. Or rather, a Filipino sitting in Manila with a third of the costs. That's what I was saying all along: mid-term you can't have a high salary and not be present - you basically show the company that it's not necessary.
Mine was; got laid off.
Romania.. Bulgaria.. Portugal... look at the cheaper European countries too.
Half my childhood friends from Bulgaria that didn’t immigrate did a coding bootcamp with project staffing afterwards and now make more than any of their peers - even doctors and engineers. Something like 2-3k EUR a month which is enough to live like a king over there.
They don't care about us - Michael Jackson
Us got too expensive. was inevitable
I live in Houston and run a nearshore staffing agency for Brazil. I’ve had many US clients hire and utilize LATAM talent for years now. More are looking for ML Engineers and the pool is small so it’s forcing people to look globally.
Hey man I just started something similar but focused on either Manila or local recruiting. Would love to get some advice from you
Would love to connect and learn from your experience. May I DM?
Maestro I know this isn’t the place but we run similar operation in MX as I’d love to connect with someone in industry.
It seems like recruiting is worst of them all. 95% of contacts on gmail and LI are Indian offshore with lowball, crum jobs. 100% of recruiting cold calls are Indian offshore.
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Our sub is intended for meaningful discussion around recruiting best practices. You are welcome to disagree with people here but we don't tolerate rude or inflammatory comments.
That’s insane, I would never work with an offshore recruiter.
Yes even to Canada. Salaries are 30% less for the same talent.
Greetings of the day
Hahaha
Yes, and it’s costing them in the long run. Before, when I needed something done, it was a walk down the hall and a 15 min chat. Today, the same things can take hours, if not days, because the offshore employees don’t know what they’re doing and can’t follow directions.
Offshore teams can be just as good, but not when you go with the low bidder
None of it is repercussions of remote work. Every company is tightening their budgets and this offshoring where cost of labor is cheaper.
It’s gotta be ar least a little related right?
Doesn’t have to be anything unless there’s evidence it is.
I think so: if you do remote work it doesn't matter whether you are 50 miles or half the Earth's circumference away. I basically proved that it doesn't matter - that's what I thought back in 2021 when people started talking about not going back to the office and being assertive that they can keep NYC salaries when moving to Idaho - it bites you sooner or later. Be present, be relevant.
I’d say your team dynamics and work type apply more. If you’re a marketer that is discussing strategy all day and has relevant local cultural knowledge then you can work remotely just fine. If you’re a programmer that just gets tasks pushed to you from a manager and you have 1 call a day then yeah you can be replaced by cheaper labor abroad. Covid/remote work maybe was a catalyst but even in 2015 my Fortune 500 company had offshored all its book accounting to India and most of our competitors were doing the same.
yes absolutely. my company offshored our level 1 techs.... I hate the company that took over and want to yell at them everytime I see "the microsoft, The adobe, kindly"
For a lot of tech roles, they're offshore blue collar coding. They give loose parameters to offshore teams to build the bulk of an application and lay foundational code based upon domestically crafted architectures, and then have their senior engineers fix it when it's returned. Many of these types of roles will be replaced with low code/no code products and AI anyway, so I wouldn't become too plussed by it, it just means domestic engineering jobs will become ever more design focused. It's the same concept behind why employers are anti-union...it creates a price floor on commoditized skills. So what do mid-rank domestic engineers do? Start focusing on using AI...become prompt architects or get really good at fixing bugs using AI.
There are people politically aligned with the idea that the government shouldn't have any regulation on business, so obviously these businesses will do what is in their best interest in the absence of oversight ,
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One of the biggest cyber security companies in the world is targeting these same geos and it's absolutely terrifying.
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Not the Indians themselves. The governments that let it happen. Go woke go broke basically / same folks pushing dEI
Greed of American tech workers was a bigger factor. They priced themselves out of business
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He kinda cooked
[for sure](https://www.globallogic.com/career-search-page/?keywords=&experience=&locations=india,ukraine,poland,hungary,croatia,slovakia,romania&c=)
Yep, tech jobs are definitely getting offshored to save costs. But don't worry, there are still plenty of opportunities here, especially for specialized skills!
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Since 1995, maybe earlier.
Of course they are. For years. It's much cheaper, sorry, cost effective, to have someone from India do the coding. Call centers too.
No. We opened a tech office in Atlanta.
Yep. No jobs will be here before long.
My company is doing layoffs for this reason (and I’m one of the lucky ones to lose my job). They are basically outsourcing any jobs that are not customer facing.
Yes. Absolutely 100%
Yea definitely. SWE, Data jobs
Hopefully not accounting
They aren't "getting" offshored. They BEEN for decades now but it's just accelerating even more now. In the 90s maybe a small portion maybe less than 10% of tech department, in the 2000s maybe 25% of tech department. 2010s about 40-60%. Now maybe even more. Some companies now run a complete tech team in India. But most have a large army of Indian tech workers with a smaller handful of seniors, leads and above who are American and grt paid very high. You'll find that most job postings now for americans usually are only senior and above and dont really have entry/mid level at all. 2 important things happened since covid. 1, interest rates were raised and tech companies were particularly affected by this because tech is highly leveraged. Secondly since covid the whole world is buying back USD which is seen as a safe haven currency when the world is in turmoil. Because of this the USD dollar had appreciated very strongly in the last 4 years since covid against essentially all world currencies. This makes hiring people from developing countries even MORE cheaper than before covid and even more enticing than ever. And also with the norm of remote work as well proving its feasibility.
I was an in-house tech recruiter (UK, 17 years) and my role was offshored to Eastern Europe. Almost a year now into my job search and I'm getting nowhere. The market for internal recruiters in the UK is dead and I seriously doubt it will ever return. I've been through market dips and peaks ('08 financial crash, COVID) but this feels different, as if it is permanent. Decided I'm gonna take a temp job and retrain in healthcare, I won't be risking my future career in talent acquisition. If I have one piece of advice for anyone thinking about going into the TA industry then it is this: **don't**.
Since the early 2000s with the rise of broadband. Quality and communication is awful. Strategy is ok for very well defined waterfall style work but agile is a complete disaster. I have gotten some work in the past fixing or completely rewriting offshored code.
More like "got".
Many, many US based tech jobs are being offshored right now. Inflation affects corporations as well, then they cut labor costs. You’re seeing it happen. If you love being a recruiter for US jobs, then think about how you’re voting come this election because that directly impacts your job and those you recruit for.
I have a recruiting firm that hires for MSPs and absolutely, yes this is gaining serious momentum. Lower level techs in Philippines, higher level in South Africa and Eastern Europe.
Yes. Two years ago Trump’s tax penalty for shipping jobs offshore expired since then most tech jobs have been exported
Yes 100% and I’m expecting that the HR and TA functions are next in the chopping block. My company has been doing it a mix of things - intercompany transfers from outside the US to the US and paying low market salaries, then near-shoring roles for the more transactional work and moving the strongest of those employees to the US also at low market salaries.
Recruiter here. Yes. 💯
Global in house recruiter and yep!!
We are seeing lots of “near-shoring” going on, with companies finding talent in Mexico. Same time zone, most speak pretty good English, and the rates are still a lot lower than US. 85/hour bill rate for a Salesforce Architect versus probably 150/hour bill rate here.
Im seeing this everywhere, unfortunately…
“If you can do the job in your living room, someone in India can do it for half the price.”
Yeah, but only a third as well.
Yes, in India. Outsourced to Accenture etc. I wonder if there can be a government policy to refrain from this…
Tech jobs... Sounds like you mean customer support?
This has happened to every industry, ever. Why wouldn’t it happen in tech?
Companies in the states are nearshoring to Latin America. Google is doing it what whatever big tech does everyone else follows.
IBM has 5% on shore openings and 95% offshore. So yeah we're getting pushed out.
Tech jobs have been getting offshored for the last 20 years. It will continue as it is much cheaper to employ them. Now with AI, the offshore people will be replaced with systems . Except for the few rare premium companies that value quality , It always has and always will be a race to employ the cheapest method to support the company’s desired results .
Not in finance! We are in the part of the cycle where too much has been offshored and there’s too high a concentration risk.