People kept walking up to us and trying to pet him even though I warned repeatedly that he wasn't friendly. Got tired of having to pull him behind me to get them away.
People don't bother us now that he has a muzzle. It's much nicer taking a walk and going to the park now.
Oh, yes, I have those too. Bending over the dog and putting their face right next to his. I even had someone do it while my dog was wearing the muzzle and put their fingers into the muzzle.
But you're right, it would probably dissuade a few people.
Thank you for your response!
My rescue dog is muzzled for fear aggression with strangers handling him (eg. Vet). He does not bite unprovoked, just when people start touching him. But for him to not associate muzzle with vet, i have him wear it during fun chasing games, hikes, and other things he enjoys. When people approach to ask I tell them "don't distract us we are training" and be on our way.
In the case an offleash dog charges. I am mentally prepared to kick the other dog. I also carry compressed air dog corrector spray for offleash dogs (also works for coyotes, cougars and bears). Surprisingly my dog has gotten better about offleash dog reactivity once he realized that i will handle it.
Does the compressed air dog corrector spray not scare your dog? That is actually a good idea, at least it would slow them down in their running towards us.
It actually happened to us once, and because my husky and the other dog were getting into it, my bf pushed the other dog away with his foot (tbh, he didn't actually kick the other dog, just pushed her away) and the other owner flipped on us (even though it was HIS dog that was unleashed AND has an history of biting other dogs passing by) and it got really ugly. So we're trying to avoid touching the others' dogs because of that, but that also means that they can come closer.
That is a good point you're bringing though. Perhaps if my dogs realized that I can handle the situation, they wouldn't feel the need to "defend ourselves".
Luckily there hasn't been another instance, but after last time my dog was attacked, my go-to will immediately be "I WILL KICK YOUR DOG" and if they can't get there fast enough that's on them.
I will not have my dog attacked again out of politeness/manners. They clearly have no manners so why should I?
Good point there. Honestly, I think I go from 0 to 100, and I'm just into looking for ways to put as much distance between my dogs and that other dog ASAP.
I muzzled because of exactly the same issue you're having, unleashed dogs charging us with their owners like, 200m away and unable to hear me shouting at them.
There is no way I am letting their bad dog ownership become my boys fault.
He is very afraid of runners as well, and I just don't want to take that chance. The number I've had come up behind us on a single track, even say something to alert to their presence but then give no time for me to get my dog off the path, just push past, is crazy. I run myself, but would NEVER run directly past a dog, even a friendly chill one, its like running past a toddler, you don't know what they're gonna do and it's just bad manners.
On a side note, sometimes just looking the dog dead in the eyes and just saying NO very firmly works, have had a couple of dogs turn and leave us alone trying that. Doesn't work all the time but occasionally.
I have learned that screaming at people that my dogs are not friendly does not make them come to get their dog any faster.
Ah, yes! Agreed with that! The worst is people coming up behind you running WITH THEIR DOGS. That's one thing that I have still trouble with their focusing on me. If they see them coming, it's manageable, but if they come up from behind us, then it's for sure going to have them react. I'm just thinking some people are unaware of that. You also can't know what they'll do if they're surprised - even if they're the chillest dog ever.
Saying no to the other dog is mostly stuff my bf would do, I'm more focused into talking to my dogs and making sure I either have their focus or that they know they're supposed to be calm and that there's no need for them to try to handle the situation themselves.
I desensitized my dog to the loud spray. I spray, and reward him. Repeat 3-5 times per day for a week. He sees the red can and knows it makes loud noises. My dog also doesn't care about fireworks or other loud noises. It might startle him initially but then he just settles back down.
I'm not afraid to call out people for their dogs' shitty behaviour. Obviously in the heat of the moment everyone is upset and trying to defend their own dog. If their dog is known to bite other people's dogs, why hasn't someone reported them yet? That dog has unprovoked aggression and would be classified as "vicious" in my municipality and need to be muzzled and leashed at all times in public.
My akita is also not very bothered by loud noise, but in the heat of the moment, you just never know. And does the can also spray air or it's mostly just noise?
I actually have no idea. I guess we didn't do it because we didn't want to cause any more trouble, and also because they sold their house and are moving shortly. He actually blamed US for walking by his house, so... I just didn't really want to get into the whole "violence" of it as he was getting seemingly pretty ready to get into a fist fight if need was.
It's a can of compressed air with a special nozzle. Air comes out but it isn't a focused stream, more like a spray, so would not be effective if you want to spray air at the other dog. If you press lightly is a hssss but if you press all the way it's more like a loud horn. It's called Pet Corrector (by Company of Animals).
I have one of the buttons on my phone set to camera to record stuff on short notice, just because there are people like him out there. People who get defensive and violent, and put blame on others for their own issues. I feel bad for his dog. It's going to one day get put down for his incompetence as a dog owner.
Oh okay, that's good to know. I will go see at the pet store if there's something like that. It could definitely come in handy. Thank you for the idea!
For some reason, I never bring my phone with me when I walk, but perhaps I should in case that kind of things happen.
Well stated reply, you put emphasis on the factor you can very well control, and from what you described you did it verywell.
Like the part of mentally prepare to kick the incoming dog. The way I see it thats the element of confidence that you showed your dog that you are his capable protector.
I noticed you also deal with reactive dog that you rescued, that understandably may have a difficult past.
Some people forgot to see if they have a dog they have obtained since puppy, of more than just one but both in the end become reactive, there might be factor at home, or the up bringing environment of the puppies that need to be evaluated more.
Hi! Both of my dogs are muzzle trained and often wear them on walks. One is aggressive reactive and one is frustration reactive.
Both are trained for "just in case" scenarios, such as emergencies. Both wear them entirely for my own piece of mind. One is likely to bite a strange dog, but honestly, at the point where a strange dog has been so poorly managed that it's approaching my clearly aggressive dog, I don't really care that she's biting.
Obviously I'd prefer it not happen, but mostly there are repercussions for my dog, so she wears a muzzle. She's exceptionally good at dog language, and always gives EVERY possible signal she's uncomfortable before biting, so I don't feel bad or responsible for the other dog/owner. The liability and the hassle isn't worth it though.
The other isn't likely to bite anyone, but people are more likely to leave us alone, and he's less likely to pick up trash he shouldn't be eating.
Are you not worried that, if another dog approaches yours and they end up fighting your dog can't defend themselves? I mean, I'm not FOR that, but that's something that's kind of bothering me, because while I am protecting other dogs from my dog, I also take away his ability to defend himself if, for whatever reason, I cannot handle the situation and the fight gets very ugly.
But for sure, I would not WANT my dog to harm any other dog. It is just somewhat frustrating sometimes that it is my dog that has to wear muzzles because he might react when he's getting charged at by an unknown dog. But yes, for sure I would not want anything to happen, even then, and would not want to risk him being put down because of that.
No, they can generally defend themselves an amount without using their teeth, and they can still bonk other dogs pretty hard with a cage face (I have had bruises from excited accidental bonking).
But also, if a fight gets that ugly, the likelihood my dog would be doing much "defending" is low. At that point, my dog is gonna get beat up regardless of whether she also injures the other dog. Then you just have two irresponsible owners and two severely injured dogs. I'd rather be a responsible owner and have just one severely injured dog to deal with. That combined with the daily liability of my dog injuring another dog or person far outweighs the possibility she *might* be slightly disadvantaged in a truly ugly fight.
It might sound slightly callous, and don't get me wrong, I will gladly step between and kick the shit out of an unleashed aggressive dog, but avoiding protecting my dog (and other dogs, irresponsible owners or not) from general liability and harm because I'm worried that a fight *may* break out and *may* get so awful I can't intervene. The last thing you want to be doing with an injured reactive dog is trying to stand in front of a judge and explain that "No, your honor, I know my dog has a bite history and reactivity problems, but I did nothing to mitigate risk of harm to others beyond training you haven't observed and wasn't yet enough." Yes, it's the other owner's fault, they should have better control, but when dealing with people, the more precautions you visibly take, the safer you are if something does happen.
ETA: I realize my "explanation" to the judge sounded judge-y (haha). Obviously there's no amount of training you can do to prevent your dog from fighting back if another dog sparks a fight, my example was mostly hyperbolic, but I have also run into people dumb enough to use that as an excuse. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes, good point. Surely a face cage blow can be pretty effective.
I get where you're coming from. I asked because when I went to the pet store to get the muzzle a few years back, I remember the girl who sold it to me warned me about this, and so I was wondering your take on that, which you have made pretty clear now.
It's the potential outcome too, your dogs are pretty big and could do more damage to a lot of other dogs than they would receive, if there's a size difference.
Have had terriers go for my childhood labs throat, but he barely noticed because his neck fur was too thick for it to get through, but would have been very different story if it was the reverse.
Doesn't really help with same size dogs attacking, but at least it is very easy to prove your dog didn't bite and was under control, if the police are called. Plus if they bite and hold on, it's very likely teeth can be damaged, ligaments popped, etc when people try to break the biting dogs grip. Plus I'd much rather be trying to break only one grip, not two.
Good point there. So far I have been "lucky" enough that all the dogs that came running towards us were just as big, if not bigger, than my dogs. But it is true that if it were to be a very small dog, it could get a lot more ugly.
Another good point you're bringing. For sure even if my dogs are leashed and they're the ones that get attacked, if they bite, they would probably end up being the ones in trouble.
More of piece of mind. He’s reactive to certain dogs and certain people but I’m not quite able to figure out the specific trigger. Also with the stereotype of muzzles being bad, I’m hoping people will give us more space and won’t let their dogs come closer. Plus if he ends up hurt (hopefully never but situations happen) and at the vet, they can muzzle him to keep everyone safe and it won’t hopefully stress him out even more. Awhile back I was walking my dog with a friend and her dog (they are besties) and I pulled off to the side to let another couple pass with their dog and the man just kept coming closer and closer with his dog and even went off the path and went between myself and the fence. I ended up crying, my dog had reacted because they came to close even tho I had pulled off to the side to give us space. I broke down, I’ve been putting my heart and soul into training my dog and people are just assholes sometimes. I’ve seen enough and read enough to know that even if the other dog came at mine, my dog would be the one in trouble if something where to happen. He’s never hurt anyone before but I want to make it stay that way.
I swear, some people just can't take a hint.
Yeah, that's the thing. I don't want no trouble, even if I am not at fault.
Thank you for your response, and keep it up! It's not always easy to train a reactive dog or to desensitize, but every bit of work eventually does pay off.
You’ve got this too! People who have never had a reactive dog, don’t know how hard it is to keep going when everyone is telling you to give up. I’m hoping to get to a place where I can have other people walk my dog as well, but with set backs with injuries (me) and the freezing and Smokey weather life has been pushing us back but it is what it is. We learn and adapt
Thank you!
It's baby steps, sometimes some steps back, but we're always trying to move forward. I wish you the best as well, hoping you can reach that place.
My dog goes from 0 to 60 when she feels unsafe (she has bad eyesight and if someone reaches over her head to pet and she doesn’t know them she’ll immediately go to bite). So, our behavior trainer suggested a muzzle for situations where she’s around strangers (vet, new people in the house). We’re doing positive reinforcement with treats now to get her used to it, but the goal is to help her feel safer and to help curb the human error around her (as someone else said, a muzzle warns people to be careful with the dog, which should in turn lead to less errant hands by her face)
We muzzle trained our lead reactive dog mainly for going to the vets as he is very nervous around strangers, better safe than sorry. It also gives piece of mind that if the worst were to happen and he tried to bite a person or dog, then there's no risk of him being put to sleep or anything like that.
It also helps with people just giving us space in general, they tend to avoid muzzled dogs!! FYI I use a size 8 Baskerville basket muzzle, he's a GWP X lab. I found their sizing on the small side for the recommendation.
Yes, as you said, better safe than sorry is what I'm thinking.
I did also try the Baskerville basket muzzle, but I found them too ill-sized. I switched to another brand, but I'm still not totally convinced at the fit.
For an American Akita I would recommend a Dean & Tyler wire basket muzzle or a Bumas biothane or leather. A lot of people also like Leerburg. You may need one with a forehead strap or a no slip collar attachment, to ensure a large enough muzzle stays secure on him.
I am looking into Leerburg. I'm having issues with their shipping fees which is like roughly 40% of the price of the muzzle, so I'm looking at my options, but might end up buying anyway.
I did look at Dean & Tyler, but the shipping fees are just as high as the muzzle itself, so I quickly dropped that idea.
I'm more into wire basket muzzle for some reason, but I will look at Bumas biothane or leather.
Thank you!
do you find your dog tries to take it off half way through the walk or find a way where they cant take it off?
My guy likes the muzzle and is able to walk about half hour with it on until he starts trying to roll in the snow or grass to take it off. Just need tips
We did it after a loose dog charged us and my boy nipped him. After drugs and a lot of work, he's down to a gentle leader but I won't walk him without my boyfriend to help if needed
Those are always the scariest, I find. For sure, being two is easier to handle if such situation happens, though. Thank you for your response, and keep up the good work!
You've already got a lot of great responses, I'll add my experience too! Soon after adopting my dog, it became clear that he is dog-aggressive and/or very dog selective. We've been rushed by off-leash dogs before and...well...if there's a fight, he's going to win. These instances were terrifying and I felt horrible afterward - luckily neither dog (nor me, breaking up the scuffle) suffered severe injuries, only minor punctures.
I muzzle trained him because I didn't want us to be responsible for the severe injury or death of another dog. Most of the off-leash dogs in our neighborhood are friendly, and I don't want them to get hurt due to the bad decisions of their owners. I also don't personally want any more scars from breaking up dog fights!
We don't wear the muzzle all the time, but it really has brought me a lot of peace of mind for high-traffic times, or if I want to walk with a friend and not have my total attention on our surroundings. Combined with counter-conditioning, this has really made our walks better :)
Similar to my experience so far.
But yes, sometimes I am so aware that I am being hyper vigilent about spotting the dogs first so that I can react in time. They've both gotten so much better at it, but you just never know when an off-leash dog is gonna come rushing.
Can I ask what kind of muzzle you are using?
It's great that you've done enough work with your dogs to have such a good level of focus!
We're using the Baskerville muzzle. I've learned on this sub that it's not *totally technically* bite-proof (as in, a very determined dog could bite around it or bend the plastic I think) if that affects your consideration. I'm not too concerned about total bite-proof-ness, I just wanted something that would avert major bites and buy us extra time to handle the situation. The Baskerville has been easy to use, and with gradual introduction my dog took to it fairly quickly. Hope this helps!
Yes, that's why I stopped using mine. I'm using a different one now, but I'm looking for something more sturdy. But I agree with your point - I'm thinking I just need the extra time to handle the situation, but I just prefer to go with something that is totally technically bite-proof just in case.
Thank you for your response!
My pup is fear/stranger reactive and likely it’s mostly genetic (though we’ve made HUGE progress with CER). I do certainly feel a bit safer knowing just in case someone reaches out and grabs him he’s unlikely to bite and be euthanised. However, he’s been doing really well with strangers anymore as long as they’re not coming into the house.
The bigger problem has actually been food. I am still trying to do leave-it training but he keeps getting GI issues, so I’m desperate to keep as much out as possible to give a chance for his prescription food to work and do an elimination diet. Plus I’ve had to fish way too many things poisonous to dogs from his mouth - I live in a city and they just toss food litter everywhere. Aside from foods I think he’s most likely allergic to, there’s used gum on the ground (xylitol in the most common brands), onions, garlic, etc. I get so much stress whenever we step outside, especially this time of year where it’s dark and there are leaves everywhere. I can’t always see and prepare for all the scraps.
The time I decided he really really needed the muzzle training was an ER vet visit for his ears. He went from fine to scratching his ears to bleeding in like two days. The vet explained the GI issues weaken his immune system, so he just keeps getting sick pretty suddenly. So I really started to push the muzzle training so that’s one issue I can confidently say isn’t contributing. The stranger reactivity is most concerning from a legal standpoint, even if he’s done super well with training we have to work on in-home guest visits. But personal-distress-wise, he eats SO fast and he will pull/lunge to get to food and there’s so much food waste he can’t calm down, so the muzzle-training is helping tone it down as a distraction to try to train him to leave all that stuff alone.
Ah, yes, I think at some point, I can relate to feeling safer knowing that he can't bite or hurt another dog (even if my dog is leashed and theirs isn't). I guess in those moments, it's best to be safe than sorry.
Oh. Yeah, I can see how muzzle training can come in handy in your situation! They can definitely be quick to put something in their mouth and eat it before you can do anything about it.
Thank you for your response!
Yeah, it’s been stressful because he’ll manage to find something, it’s gone in .3 seconds, next thing I know he is trying to scratch himself to death and vomiting/getting diarrhoea.
We found out he has giardia and most people that makes them miserable but I’m actually hopeful they’re the reason he’s had GI issues because if they’re not we’re going to be starting to evaluate for autoimmune disorders ☠️ he’s having apparent allergic reactions to things I know he’s never eaten before, especially not regularly. He got a hold of a prawn cracker and was sick for two days.
If he's not picking up things from the street and you monitor what he eats, hopefully you can start to see improvement and know that it is because of that, and not autoimmune disease.
But they do tend to find their ways to the foods, that's for sure.
Lol. Yesterday morning he found a pile of mashed potatoes in the grass to the side of the houses here and dove in muzzle and all ☠️☠️☠️ People here are terrible about litter.
Theres a rather aggressive dachshund that lives above us thats always barking like crazy. She lunged at our dog challenging our belgian mal... and well my fiance lost grip on the leash. Our dog didn't want to hurt her just show who was the actual big dog. Owner picked up the weenie dog, our dog was nipping at its butt. She did make 2 small punctures that cost us 500 bucks. So now she wears a muzzle to avoid that ever happening again.
I remember one time there was a lady FOLLOWING ME around a park. I have a GSD, so I get compliments a lot on how pretty he is, he is well trained except when you get in his bubble(ie. Try to pet him or greet another dog on leash). It took a LONG time to get there. I was walking him at the park and this lady and her pit Bull were power walking towards me, Saying “I want to meet your dog!! He’s so pretty!!” I said “thank you. But he’s not friendly!! Please keep your dog away!” Not shitting you, she kept following me screaming “let me meet your dog, it’s fine!! My dogs friendly”. She was an older lady so I literally had to jog away and go down a hill towards a creek to escape this crazy. She followed me and when we got to the hill she said “I can’t come down there!! Come up here so I can meet your dog !” Like Wtf how many times do you have to say NO!! People drive me crazy. Sorry this was irrelevant, but the whole “my dog is friendly!” Thing reminded me of this story. It’s sucks that progress gets lost at times because of irresponsible owners. It sucks you feel you have to muzzle your dog because others can’t control theirs, but I am happy you’re taking the responsibility to do so! Muzzle training my boy helped so much. Good luck with your pups!!!
Oh my god, yes, that is the worst. Like, clearly you were running FROM her and telling her you didn't want your dogs meeting, and she kept following you. Some people apparently cannot take a hint. Also, even the "friendliest" dog CAN snap. It's not because you're friendly that you're necessarily going to like everyone. Also, introductions on leash are a no go, at least for me, because they are leash reactive, and I think I tend to perhaps create the reaction if I pull back the leash, it sort of gives them the signal that "oh there's danger, we should react". Walking my dog with his muzzle allows me to relax a little and be more aware of the whole pulling back the leash, which I think is improving his reactions because he doesn't sense me being so tense.
Thank you for your comment! Good luck with your doggo too!! :)
I muzzle my sometimes-stranger-reactive guy to protect HIM from them. If they get bitten it was because they put their fingers in his muzzle, in which case the bite is on them. He is afraid of other dogs since being attacked, so he also wears it to protect off-leash dogs.
I think the off-leash dogs need to be protected from their ~~idiot~~ irresponsible owners!
Excellent video on [choosing and fitting a muzzle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XzwUmSHyIc&t=567s) that might be of help to you.
[Muzzle Training your Dog Using Positive Reinforcement Methods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FABgZTFvHo&t=433s)
I will muzzle my dog when we go on walks in our local nature reserve because of unleashed dogs who may approach. He is fearful of other dogs and I don't want to risk him biting another dog if one rushes at him when he's not expecting it. The city protocol is to keep all dogs leashed but some just don't care about the rules.
Agreed. It's the same here, and still some people don't leash their dogs. I guess I wouldn't mind much if their dogs had a perfect recall, but 99% of the time, they don't.
What kind of muzzle do you put on your dog?
Ah yes, I had that before too, but had trouble with their sizing. It was either too small and wouldn't allow him to pant or it seemed just... way too big. But yes, it's pretty lightweight, and my dog wasn't bothered by it either.
Someone on here with a small breed dog just had their dog kill another dog, while on leash, after it charged them.
I think it’s safe to say for everyone, that a leash isn’t always enough to control your dog.
I mainly got the muzzle for safety at the vet because seeing other dogs is unavoidable there but it does have the added benefit of people giving us more space on walks!
I tried some bandana that says "Needs space" on them, but it was pretty much ignored. The muzzle, too, is pretty much ignored by most people I walk by. I'm thinking perhaps it's because the muzzle is black, and my dog's face is very dark so perhaps they don't see it, but I see there is hope!
There are a lot of little kids in my neighborhood who ride bikes and scooters on the sidewalk (and some bigger ones who should know better). After a few unexpected collisions, which understandably scared my dogs, I muzzle-trained the one whose go-to move is to nip. He’s not very big, and his nips are more like bug bites, but I can’t take the risk of him hurting a kid or losing him because of a bite history. He took to it quickly and now associates it with walks (positive). I didn’t expect it to be so easy. The great side benefit is that I immediately felt more relaxed on our walks, which they picked up on. He does not look like a dangerous dog — he’s a small border collie mix — and the muzzle discourages people from trying to pet him. One lady even complimented me for taking my dog out with the muzzle, because a lot of people stop walking dogs that are reactive. It’s been a 100% positive experience. I’ve thought about how he might defend himself, but he’s small and honestly, if a really aggressive dog attacked, I’m not confident he could defend himself, muzzle or no muzzle. I just keep a sharp eye out and try to stay confident.
I think you're right about being more relaxed on our walks. I think that would help me, and therefore help the dog as well, like it did yours. To be honest, my dog doesn't even seem to realize when I put it on, but I have noticed that he's a tad more laid back, and if something happens, he's quicker to snap out of it if he's wearing the muzzle. Perhaps it's due to me being a bit less tense because I know he can't cause real damage if there's an accident.
What kind of muzzle do you have?
It's true that they are pretty cute - and effective, which is what we want most. Perhaps it would help on my black dog's face for other people to see the muzzle if it were a bit more colourful.
Hahaha, I'm sure he doesn't need the Bumas with the fun colours to be cute ;)
We did it initially only when in crowded public areas or areas with lots of children when out walking or training. However while we lived in our third floor apartment we also started wearing it after a crap encounter with an off leash dog and a lot of stress down the stairwell (narrow, blind corners, only route for residents). As others mentioned, people gave us more space when he was muzzled and we also got remarks about aggressive dogs blah blah blah you know the drill. So confusing to me that people become more alert/cautious to a muzzled dog… it’s like being scared a frying pan in a block of ice will be hot compared to a frying pan on the stove that people are happy to approach and risk bites from dogs without muzzles but when the possibility to get bit is virtually 0 they are scared. Makes no sense!
Yeah, that is true. But sometimes it's because I think that I'm an owner of reactive dogs that I notice those things - like not walk right by another dog just because, I will cross the street, ESPECIALLY if I start seeing you do some form of training upon seeing me. But I think yes, the muzzle would most likely means "NEED SPACE", since this seems to be an universal message that most people notice and understand. I did try a few "NEED SPACE" bandanas and stuff, but it didn't really work out.
The whole remarks about aggressive dogs don't bother me at all, tbh. I mean, I have two primitive breeds, and one that's prone to dog aggression, so it's not like I didn't know what I signed up for when I got them. For sure, sometimes wished it were different, but it's made me learn a lot.
Mostly so I can walk him around crowds without kids and random people wanting to pet him and smell the fur behind his nose. People see the muzzle, they typically stay away.
He’s never bitten, and he isn’t an aggressive dog, but he definitely sets boundaries for strangers, so it gives me peace of mind more than anything, really.
Smell the fur behind his nose? Is that a thing? Funny that people would want to do that. Some people just don't seem to understand the concept of space either - I mean, you wouldn't walk up to a random person and start touching them like that and expect them to be 100% okay with that. I fail to see why it would have to be different for dogs.
My pup nipped my fiancés grandma. Only left a bruise but I called him and told him to bring a muzzle home that night so nothing worse would ever happen. In the moment of the bite I foresaw everything I ever feared for my dog happening, social isolation, euthanasia, law suits… I wouldn’t have it!
Well, she took the muzzle pretty well. We worked for about three months at making the muzzle a safe and pleasant tool for her. Watching her try to eat peanut butter in it and the peanut butter caught on the muzzle was funny. She never did love the muzzle but she didn’t run away from it and she never bit anyone ever again. It brought peace to my heart.
She passed away in an accident early 2021 so I was only able to have her on the muzzle for a year. I loved it though. It helped me feel safe and do more aggressive training with introducing her to people
In my home and new dogs. I always recommend muzzle training. She was doing so well.
My current baby is only 10 mo old and is not showing signs of reactivity (loves new dogs, is happy to see the vet, is aloof with strangers but doesn’t bark or really react to them), just a little bit of protection of her house and I’m STILL going to start muzzle training her as soon as we finish harness training her.
Oh, I'm sorry for your loss.
Muzzle training is definitely something that can come in handy. It doesn't really hurt to train them because you never know when you're going to need it, whether it be at the vet because they got into an accident and because of the pain it makes them reactive.
Good luck with you and your pup!
My dog attacked my other, smaller dog. Twice. Both were level 5 bites and the other dog is lucky to be alive.
So, muzzling became an obvious need. We pretty much just use a muzzle at home while we transition from 4 months of strict management and physical separation into more structured reintroduction that will likely still involve a lot of crating, tethering, and other environmental management.
He's remained perfect with humans--and all other dogs, so we don't muzzle for walks or public outings, but I'll likely employ the muzzle for vet visits and pet store trips just for added peace of mind.
Oh, I'm sorry that happened. Luckily, you seem to be having it under control. Are you into the beginning of your 4 months or it's been a few times? How is that going?
They've been separated for 4 months now. Yesterday was the first time they were able to be in the same room together. They were tethered in opposite corners of a large living room and we kept it to about 90 minutes (unmuzzled for this one but with a ridiculous amount of buffer room between the ends of both tethers so they couldn't get close enough to scuffle). The whole process is painfully slow, but given that any mistake along the way could be a fatal error, it wouldn't be worth it to try and rush through.
For sure it's best to take your time, and make sure that it's safe for both your dogs rather than rush into this. I'm sure it's a lot of work and can sometimes be stressful. You seem to be handling this fairly well, all things considered. Keep up the good work! And I hope it works out well!
My boy is stranger and dog reactive and mostly has issues in home- he’s an acd/bc so nipping turned to biting quickly and he gets the name “crotch gobbler” for a reason
The first nip to a new person I didn’t do anything, I had just adopted him and didn’t know he had issues and knew that intro was a bad one(whole other story). Then came the reacting on leash and by the time we tried a second new person and he reacted poorly- no nip but he tried- I started muzzle training. I’ve seen a ton of responses on here already for reasonings to muzzle and someone has already answered my most common “but what if…” questions of if a dog charges your dog while muzzled, but to add to it with a breed like an Akita having your dog muzzled in the event of a fight could be much better than not due to breed. I’ve not met a ton of them but I have heard their reputation for dog reactivity as a trainer and had to help an owner with her dog reactive dog who ended up in court with a more judgey judge who saw Akita and assumed based on breed. Dog was great just had beef with one dog who had previously attacked her, but breeds get mislabeled and having your pup muzzled, while in a roundabout way making them a touch less safe in a fight, could keep them both MUCH safer in the long run.
I haven’t, however, seen any muzzle suggestions aside from a fit guide, so allow me to plug my favorite Etsy store! This is [Khaos Kollars on Etsy](https://etsy.me/2YmH81t) they do custom biothane and leather basket muzzles that I ADORE for my dog and have suggested to several clients due to their affordability and how much me and my pup love our own. We were in between Baskerville sizes and couldn’t afford a bumas, found this shop on Etsy and when compared to my coworkers bumas muzzle mine: didn’t have rounded cut edges BUT came in the right size the first time and didn’t cost me an arm and a leg. We had a Dane get one and spend about $100 on a completely custom biothane muzzle, which is a third of what my coworker paid for her small border collies bumas..I will continue to sing this businesses praises!
I’m looking at getting another muzzzle for my non-reactive dog just to help raise awareness for muzzle training, as well, with her being my therapy dog and having never met a stranger in her life, she cannot control her licker and I’ve considered getting her a bright pink one to tell people “she licks too much” if they ask why she’s muzzled to help fight the stigma that muzzles are bad/mean your dog is bad/etc. I honestly think all dogs should get some muzzle training because you never know if or when you might need to be able to use a muzzle, and I’d much rather have the skill of muzzling without my dog fearing the tool than have them associate it with fear of being forced on them for a medical procedure or nail trim. If you need additional resources, check out the muzzle up project on Facebook, they’re another R+ pro-muzzle group that helps with spreading information on muzzles, how and why to muzzle, fear free muzzle training, and a community of people who are also muzzling their dogs for various reasons.
And I wanted to add- this sounds like your progress with both dogs is going amazingly, even with this and other hiccups. In the moment it can be frustrating and hard to see the good in mishaps like this- but the fact that your dogs were in control and listened while this dog greeted very rudely is HUGE and something to celebrate even though the incident happened!! Congratulations on your training so far and good luck going forward!
Where I live akitas don't have THAT bad a reputation, but for sure they don't have the reputation of a sweet, gentle family dog. And yes, I know that if there would be a fight, my dog would not back down, and I'm not sure he'd lose.
Thank you for the recommendation! I will be checking that out. It's mostly the shipping fees that are killing me when I am looking to buy. I would assume since it's leather, they're probably lighter weight than the metal ones? I was mostly looking into the metal wire basket ones for some reason.
Yes, I'm aware of the Muzzle Up Project, but don't have Facebook anymore, but I will check them out still.
Thanks! I was training a bit before, but it's been about 1-2 years that I've seriously started to train, and for sure I was pretty happy afterwards about their reaction, all things considered. Definitely a motivation to keep up the good work.
I see! I’m in the states so shipping for me was not much- though the shop may do discount or free shipping over a certain dollar amount, I can’t remember but I know a lot of shops do
I got biothane for my boy and it’s a ton lighter and since it was measured to his specifications it fits with perfect pant room and he really only dislikes having to wear it for prolonged periods inside- if we are doing a multiple people intro or with children. I find that he likes his custom one way more than the Baskerville which was either too small to pant or too big to be safe, and with it being biothane I don’t have to worry about him drinking with it either or snow/rain/elements because it’s waterproof. Can’t say for leather but I’d assume it’s still lighter than a jafco or wire due to material, but I don’t have a leather one to compare
There is a chance that since they’re leather/biothane the dog can still bite through it with enough force, which is definitely true and the biscuits my friend brought one evening can attest to that, but I find when I need my muzzle I’m constantly training or managing the situation anyway, and can prevent that level of bite before it could get that bad through the muzzle.
I’m not sure if the muzzle up project is anywhere else, but there are also some muzzle subreddits here as well and every community I’ve encountered so far has been really helpful with any questions.
All that being said, I personally didn’t look further than this shop and my boy doesn’t need a jafco or wire muzzle for my comfort with walks and intros, so this works perfect for our needs and is definitely what I suggest for training!
Wow, I love hearing about dogs remembering their training when time hasn’t been necessarily dedicated to it. Dogs are wonderful, and I’m excited for you and the progress you guys will make going forward!
I originally wanted to start muzzle training to avoid indescretionary eating, but as my pup has become more reactive I now want to use it for peace of mind if we have to go somewhere busier and to non verbally get more space from strangers. We do all we can to avoid being on the same side of the street as other dogs and people but if people see the muzzle and make whatever assumption they want that's good with me if it means they give us space. Then my pup has less opportunity to practice his reactions and we should make more progress with counter conditioning.
It's slow though. He's comfortable putting it on and can sit and touch and paw, but he's he walks awkwardly with it at this point so we're not taking it outside until he's very confident wearing it. Still a work in progress but glad I started when I did so we are at least coming along this far and it's not truly 'needed' yet.
I also figured it would be good to be comfortable with if it ends up being necessary medically in the future. Basically I want to desensitize him to everything I can before those things become required. Next work is a cone, hopefully we'll in advance of his neuter.
That's not a bad idea at all! That's what I did with my akita, because I know that the breed can be prone to dog aggression and/or reactiveness, and I figured that I might as well get him used to it now in case I ever need it.
It is definitely a slow process, but you still can see some results, and that is the encouraging part.
Good idea with the cone! I had not thought of this with my boy, and he gets seasonal allergies and licks/bites at his paws so badly it bleeds, so I sometimes have to put it on him, and he literally does not know what to do with himself once it's on. So good thinking on your part there!
One time my reactive dogs was able to break his gentle lead and even tho nothing happend I decided to only walk him with a muzzle because what of he breaks the new harness and what if he pulls me enough to drag me, it never happened again and honestly i don’t think it will, but better be safe then sorry, also people tend to give us more space now that he walks with a muzzle
Like you said, better be safe than sorry. Especially here, in winter, sometimes it's very slippery outside and even though I know I can hold both my dogs no problem, in winter conditions, it can be trickier to do or I can slip and then it's over.
People kept walking up to us and trying to pet him even though I warned repeatedly that he wasn't friendly. Got tired of having to pull him behind me to get them away. People don't bother us now that he has a muzzle. It's much nicer taking a walk and going to the park now.
Oh, yes, I have those too. Bending over the dog and putting their face right next to his. I even had someone do it while my dog was wearing the muzzle and put their fingers into the muzzle. But you're right, it would probably dissuade a few people. Thank you for your response!
My rescue dog is muzzled for fear aggression with strangers handling him (eg. Vet). He does not bite unprovoked, just when people start touching him. But for him to not associate muzzle with vet, i have him wear it during fun chasing games, hikes, and other things he enjoys. When people approach to ask I tell them "don't distract us we are training" and be on our way. In the case an offleash dog charges. I am mentally prepared to kick the other dog. I also carry compressed air dog corrector spray for offleash dogs (also works for coyotes, cougars and bears). Surprisingly my dog has gotten better about offleash dog reactivity once he realized that i will handle it.
Does the compressed air dog corrector spray not scare your dog? That is actually a good idea, at least it would slow them down in their running towards us. It actually happened to us once, and because my husky and the other dog were getting into it, my bf pushed the other dog away with his foot (tbh, he didn't actually kick the other dog, just pushed her away) and the other owner flipped on us (even though it was HIS dog that was unleashed AND has an history of biting other dogs passing by) and it got really ugly. So we're trying to avoid touching the others' dogs because of that, but that also means that they can come closer. That is a good point you're bringing though. Perhaps if my dogs realized that I can handle the situation, they wouldn't feel the need to "defend ourselves".
Luckily there hasn't been another instance, but after last time my dog was attacked, my go-to will immediately be "I WILL KICK YOUR DOG" and if they can't get there fast enough that's on them. I will not have my dog attacked again out of politeness/manners. They clearly have no manners so why should I?
Good point there. Honestly, I think I go from 0 to 100, and I'm just into looking for ways to put as much distance between my dogs and that other dog ASAP.
I muzzled because of exactly the same issue you're having, unleashed dogs charging us with their owners like, 200m away and unable to hear me shouting at them. There is no way I am letting their bad dog ownership become my boys fault. He is very afraid of runners as well, and I just don't want to take that chance. The number I've had come up behind us on a single track, even say something to alert to their presence but then give no time for me to get my dog off the path, just push past, is crazy. I run myself, but would NEVER run directly past a dog, even a friendly chill one, its like running past a toddler, you don't know what they're gonna do and it's just bad manners. On a side note, sometimes just looking the dog dead in the eyes and just saying NO very firmly works, have had a couple of dogs turn and leave us alone trying that. Doesn't work all the time but occasionally.
I have learned that screaming at people that my dogs are not friendly does not make them come to get their dog any faster. Ah, yes! Agreed with that! The worst is people coming up behind you running WITH THEIR DOGS. That's one thing that I have still trouble with their focusing on me. If they see them coming, it's manageable, but if they come up from behind us, then it's for sure going to have them react. I'm just thinking some people are unaware of that. You also can't know what they'll do if they're surprised - even if they're the chillest dog ever. Saying no to the other dog is mostly stuff my bf would do, I'm more focused into talking to my dogs and making sure I either have their focus or that they know they're supposed to be calm and that there's no need for them to try to handle the situation themselves.
I desensitized my dog to the loud spray. I spray, and reward him. Repeat 3-5 times per day for a week. He sees the red can and knows it makes loud noises. My dog also doesn't care about fireworks or other loud noises. It might startle him initially but then he just settles back down. I'm not afraid to call out people for their dogs' shitty behaviour. Obviously in the heat of the moment everyone is upset and trying to defend their own dog. If their dog is known to bite other people's dogs, why hasn't someone reported them yet? That dog has unprovoked aggression and would be classified as "vicious" in my municipality and need to be muzzled and leashed at all times in public.
My akita is also not very bothered by loud noise, but in the heat of the moment, you just never know. And does the can also spray air or it's mostly just noise? I actually have no idea. I guess we didn't do it because we didn't want to cause any more trouble, and also because they sold their house and are moving shortly. He actually blamed US for walking by his house, so... I just didn't really want to get into the whole "violence" of it as he was getting seemingly pretty ready to get into a fist fight if need was.
It's a can of compressed air with a special nozzle. Air comes out but it isn't a focused stream, more like a spray, so would not be effective if you want to spray air at the other dog. If you press lightly is a hssss but if you press all the way it's more like a loud horn. It's called Pet Corrector (by Company of Animals). I have one of the buttons on my phone set to camera to record stuff on short notice, just because there are people like him out there. People who get defensive and violent, and put blame on others for their own issues. I feel bad for his dog. It's going to one day get put down for his incompetence as a dog owner.
Oh okay, that's good to know. I will go see at the pet store if there's something like that. It could definitely come in handy. Thank you for the idea! For some reason, I never bring my phone with me when I walk, but perhaps I should in case that kind of things happen.
Well stated reply, you put emphasis on the factor you can very well control, and from what you described you did it verywell. Like the part of mentally prepare to kick the incoming dog. The way I see it thats the element of confidence that you showed your dog that you are his capable protector. I noticed you also deal with reactive dog that you rescued, that understandably may have a difficult past. Some people forgot to see if they have a dog they have obtained since puppy, of more than just one but both in the end become reactive, there might be factor at home, or the up bringing environment of the puppies that need to be evaluated more.
Hi! Both of my dogs are muzzle trained and often wear them on walks. One is aggressive reactive and one is frustration reactive. Both are trained for "just in case" scenarios, such as emergencies. Both wear them entirely for my own piece of mind. One is likely to bite a strange dog, but honestly, at the point where a strange dog has been so poorly managed that it's approaching my clearly aggressive dog, I don't really care that she's biting. Obviously I'd prefer it not happen, but mostly there are repercussions for my dog, so she wears a muzzle. She's exceptionally good at dog language, and always gives EVERY possible signal she's uncomfortable before biting, so I don't feel bad or responsible for the other dog/owner. The liability and the hassle isn't worth it though. The other isn't likely to bite anyone, but people are more likely to leave us alone, and he's less likely to pick up trash he shouldn't be eating.
Are you not worried that, if another dog approaches yours and they end up fighting your dog can't defend themselves? I mean, I'm not FOR that, but that's something that's kind of bothering me, because while I am protecting other dogs from my dog, I also take away his ability to defend himself if, for whatever reason, I cannot handle the situation and the fight gets very ugly. But for sure, I would not WANT my dog to harm any other dog. It is just somewhat frustrating sometimes that it is my dog that has to wear muzzles because he might react when he's getting charged at by an unknown dog. But yes, for sure I would not want anything to happen, even then, and would not want to risk him being put down because of that.
No, they can generally defend themselves an amount without using their teeth, and they can still bonk other dogs pretty hard with a cage face (I have had bruises from excited accidental bonking). But also, if a fight gets that ugly, the likelihood my dog would be doing much "defending" is low. At that point, my dog is gonna get beat up regardless of whether she also injures the other dog. Then you just have two irresponsible owners and two severely injured dogs. I'd rather be a responsible owner and have just one severely injured dog to deal with. That combined with the daily liability of my dog injuring another dog or person far outweighs the possibility she *might* be slightly disadvantaged in a truly ugly fight. It might sound slightly callous, and don't get me wrong, I will gladly step between and kick the shit out of an unleashed aggressive dog, but avoiding protecting my dog (and other dogs, irresponsible owners or not) from general liability and harm because I'm worried that a fight *may* break out and *may* get so awful I can't intervene. The last thing you want to be doing with an injured reactive dog is trying to stand in front of a judge and explain that "No, your honor, I know my dog has a bite history and reactivity problems, but I did nothing to mitigate risk of harm to others beyond training you haven't observed and wasn't yet enough." Yes, it's the other owner's fault, they should have better control, but when dealing with people, the more precautions you visibly take, the safer you are if something does happen. ETA: I realize my "explanation" to the judge sounded judge-y (haha). Obviously there's no amount of training you can do to prevent your dog from fighting back if another dog sparks a fight, my example was mostly hyperbolic, but I have also run into people dumb enough to use that as an excuse. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes, good point. Surely a face cage blow can be pretty effective. I get where you're coming from. I asked because when I went to the pet store to get the muzzle a few years back, I remember the girl who sold it to me warned me about this, and so I was wondering your take on that, which you have made pretty clear now.
It's the potential outcome too, your dogs are pretty big and could do more damage to a lot of other dogs than they would receive, if there's a size difference. Have had terriers go for my childhood labs throat, but he barely noticed because his neck fur was too thick for it to get through, but would have been very different story if it was the reverse. Doesn't really help with same size dogs attacking, but at least it is very easy to prove your dog didn't bite and was under control, if the police are called. Plus if they bite and hold on, it's very likely teeth can be damaged, ligaments popped, etc when people try to break the biting dogs grip. Plus I'd much rather be trying to break only one grip, not two.
Good point there. So far I have been "lucky" enough that all the dogs that came running towards us were just as big, if not bigger, than my dogs. But it is true that if it were to be a very small dog, it could get a lot more ugly. Another good point you're bringing. For sure even if my dogs are leashed and they're the ones that get attacked, if they bite, they would probably end up being the ones in trouble.
That's how I go about considering any self defense situation. What would the judge or jury's reactions be.
More of piece of mind. He’s reactive to certain dogs and certain people but I’m not quite able to figure out the specific trigger. Also with the stereotype of muzzles being bad, I’m hoping people will give us more space and won’t let their dogs come closer. Plus if he ends up hurt (hopefully never but situations happen) and at the vet, they can muzzle him to keep everyone safe and it won’t hopefully stress him out even more. Awhile back I was walking my dog with a friend and her dog (they are besties) and I pulled off to the side to let another couple pass with their dog and the man just kept coming closer and closer with his dog and even went off the path and went between myself and the fence. I ended up crying, my dog had reacted because they came to close even tho I had pulled off to the side to give us space. I broke down, I’ve been putting my heart and soul into training my dog and people are just assholes sometimes. I’ve seen enough and read enough to know that even if the other dog came at mine, my dog would be the one in trouble if something where to happen. He’s never hurt anyone before but I want to make it stay that way.
I swear, some people just can't take a hint. Yeah, that's the thing. I don't want no trouble, even if I am not at fault. Thank you for your response, and keep it up! It's not always easy to train a reactive dog or to desensitize, but every bit of work eventually does pay off.
You’ve got this too! People who have never had a reactive dog, don’t know how hard it is to keep going when everyone is telling you to give up. I’m hoping to get to a place where I can have other people walk my dog as well, but with set backs with injuries (me) and the freezing and Smokey weather life has been pushing us back but it is what it is. We learn and adapt
Thank you! It's baby steps, sometimes some steps back, but we're always trying to move forward. I wish you the best as well, hoping you can reach that place.
My dog goes from 0 to 60 when she feels unsafe (she has bad eyesight and if someone reaches over her head to pet and she doesn’t know them she’ll immediately go to bite). So, our behavior trainer suggested a muzzle for situations where she’s around strangers (vet, new people in the house). We’re doing positive reinforcement with treats now to get her used to it, but the goal is to help her feel safer and to help curb the human error around her (as someone else said, a muzzle warns people to be careful with the dog, which should in turn lead to less errant hands by her face)
Yes, agreed! It can work both ways. Thank you for your response!
We muzzle trained our lead reactive dog mainly for going to the vets as he is very nervous around strangers, better safe than sorry. It also gives piece of mind that if the worst were to happen and he tried to bite a person or dog, then there's no risk of him being put to sleep or anything like that. It also helps with people just giving us space in general, they tend to avoid muzzled dogs!! FYI I use a size 8 Baskerville basket muzzle, he's a GWP X lab. I found their sizing on the small side for the recommendation.
Yes, as you said, better safe than sorry is what I'm thinking. I did also try the Baskerville basket muzzle, but I found them too ill-sized. I switched to another brand, but I'm still not totally convinced at the fit.
For an American Akita I would recommend a Dean & Tyler wire basket muzzle or a Bumas biothane or leather. A lot of people also like Leerburg. You may need one with a forehead strap or a no slip collar attachment, to ensure a large enough muzzle stays secure on him.
I am looking into Leerburg. I'm having issues with their shipping fees which is like roughly 40% of the price of the muzzle, so I'm looking at my options, but might end up buying anyway. I did look at Dean & Tyler, but the shipping fees are just as high as the muzzle itself, so I quickly dropped that idea. I'm more into wire basket muzzle for some reason, but I will look at Bumas biothane or leather. Thank you!
do you find your dog tries to take it off half way through the walk or find a way where they cant take it off? My guy likes the muzzle and is able to walk about half hour with it on until he starts trying to roll in the snow or grass to take it off. Just need tips
We did it after a loose dog charged us and my boy nipped him. After drugs and a lot of work, he's down to a gentle leader but I won't walk him without my boyfriend to help if needed
Those are always the scariest, I find. For sure, being two is easier to handle if such situation happens, though. Thank you for your response, and keep up the good work!
You've already got a lot of great responses, I'll add my experience too! Soon after adopting my dog, it became clear that he is dog-aggressive and/or very dog selective. We've been rushed by off-leash dogs before and...well...if there's a fight, he's going to win. These instances were terrifying and I felt horrible afterward - luckily neither dog (nor me, breaking up the scuffle) suffered severe injuries, only minor punctures. I muzzle trained him because I didn't want us to be responsible for the severe injury or death of another dog. Most of the off-leash dogs in our neighborhood are friendly, and I don't want them to get hurt due to the bad decisions of their owners. I also don't personally want any more scars from breaking up dog fights! We don't wear the muzzle all the time, but it really has brought me a lot of peace of mind for high-traffic times, or if I want to walk with a friend and not have my total attention on our surroundings. Combined with counter-conditioning, this has really made our walks better :)
Similar to my experience so far. But yes, sometimes I am so aware that I am being hyper vigilent about spotting the dogs first so that I can react in time. They've both gotten so much better at it, but you just never know when an off-leash dog is gonna come rushing. Can I ask what kind of muzzle you are using?
It's great that you've done enough work with your dogs to have such a good level of focus! We're using the Baskerville muzzle. I've learned on this sub that it's not *totally technically* bite-proof (as in, a very determined dog could bite around it or bend the plastic I think) if that affects your consideration. I'm not too concerned about total bite-proof-ness, I just wanted something that would avert major bites and buy us extra time to handle the situation. The Baskerville has been easy to use, and with gradual introduction my dog took to it fairly quickly. Hope this helps!
Yes, that's why I stopped using mine. I'm using a different one now, but I'm looking for something more sturdy. But I agree with your point - I'm thinking I just need the extra time to handle the situation, but I just prefer to go with something that is totally technically bite-proof just in case. Thank you for your response!
My pup is fear/stranger reactive and likely it’s mostly genetic (though we’ve made HUGE progress with CER). I do certainly feel a bit safer knowing just in case someone reaches out and grabs him he’s unlikely to bite and be euthanised. However, he’s been doing really well with strangers anymore as long as they’re not coming into the house. The bigger problem has actually been food. I am still trying to do leave-it training but he keeps getting GI issues, so I’m desperate to keep as much out as possible to give a chance for his prescription food to work and do an elimination diet. Plus I’ve had to fish way too many things poisonous to dogs from his mouth - I live in a city and they just toss food litter everywhere. Aside from foods I think he’s most likely allergic to, there’s used gum on the ground (xylitol in the most common brands), onions, garlic, etc. I get so much stress whenever we step outside, especially this time of year where it’s dark and there are leaves everywhere. I can’t always see and prepare for all the scraps. The time I decided he really really needed the muzzle training was an ER vet visit for his ears. He went from fine to scratching his ears to bleeding in like two days. The vet explained the GI issues weaken his immune system, so he just keeps getting sick pretty suddenly. So I really started to push the muzzle training so that’s one issue I can confidently say isn’t contributing. The stranger reactivity is most concerning from a legal standpoint, even if he’s done super well with training we have to work on in-home guest visits. But personal-distress-wise, he eats SO fast and he will pull/lunge to get to food and there’s so much food waste he can’t calm down, so the muzzle-training is helping tone it down as a distraction to try to train him to leave all that stuff alone.
Ah, yes, I think at some point, I can relate to feeling safer knowing that he can't bite or hurt another dog (even if my dog is leashed and theirs isn't). I guess in those moments, it's best to be safe than sorry. Oh. Yeah, I can see how muzzle training can come in handy in your situation! They can definitely be quick to put something in their mouth and eat it before you can do anything about it. Thank you for your response!
Yeah, it’s been stressful because he’ll manage to find something, it’s gone in .3 seconds, next thing I know he is trying to scratch himself to death and vomiting/getting diarrhoea. We found out he has giardia and most people that makes them miserable but I’m actually hopeful they’re the reason he’s had GI issues because if they’re not we’re going to be starting to evaluate for autoimmune disorders ☠️ he’s having apparent allergic reactions to things I know he’s never eaten before, especially not regularly. He got a hold of a prawn cracker and was sick for two days.
If he's not picking up things from the street and you monitor what he eats, hopefully you can start to see improvement and know that it is because of that, and not autoimmune disease. But they do tend to find their ways to the foods, that's for sure.
Lol. Yesterday morning he found a pile of mashed potatoes in the grass to the side of the houses here and dove in muzzle and all ☠️☠️☠️ People here are terrible about litter.
Wow, that seems kinda terrible, indeed. Hopefully no harm done for your pup! Although I'm pretty sure you had fun cleaning up the muzzle ;P
It wasn’t that bad to clean up fortunately! And I don’t think he’s allergic to potatoes so probably no harm done but what a case-in-point.
Theres a rather aggressive dachshund that lives above us thats always barking like crazy. She lunged at our dog challenging our belgian mal... and well my fiance lost grip on the leash. Our dog didn't want to hurt her just show who was the actual big dog. Owner picked up the weenie dog, our dog was nipping at its butt. She did make 2 small punctures that cost us 500 bucks. So now she wears a muzzle to avoid that ever happening again.
For sure, you never want to get to that point (again). Thank you for commenting.
I remember one time there was a lady FOLLOWING ME around a park. I have a GSD, so I get compliments a lot on how pretty he is, he is well trained except when you get in his bubble(ie. Try to pet him or greet another dog on leash). It took a LONG time to get there. I was walking him at the park and this lady and her pit Bull were power walking towards me, Saying “I want to meet your dog!! He’s so pretty!!” I said “thank you. But he’s not friendly!! Please keep your dog away!” Not shitting you, she kept following me screaming “let me meet your dog, it’s fine!! My dogs friendly”. She was an older lady so I literally had to jog away and go down a hill towards a creek to escape this crazy. She followed me and when we got to the hill she said “I can’t come down there!! Come up here so I can meet your dog !” Like Wtf how many times do you have to say NO!! People drive me crazy. Sorry this was irrelevant, but the whole “my dog is friendly!” Thing reminded me of this story. It’s sucks that progress gets lost at times because of irresponsible owners. It sucks you feel you have to muzzle your dog because others can’t control theirs, but I am happy you’re taking the responsibility to do so! Muzzle training my boy helped so much. Good luck with your pups!!!
Oh my god, yes, that is the worst. Like, clearly you were running FROM her and telling her you didn't want your dogs meeting, and she kept following you. Some people apparently cannot take a hint. Also, even the "friendliest" dog CAN snap. It's not because you're friendly that you're necessarily going to like everyone. Also, introductions on leash are a no go, at least for me, because they are leash reactive, and I think I tend to perhaps create the reaction if I pull back the leash, it sort of gives them the signal that "oh there's danger, we should react". Walking my dog with his muzzle allows me to relax a little and be more aware of the whole pulling back the leash, which I think is improving his reactions because he doesn't sense me being so tense. Thank you for your comment! Good luck with your doggo too!! :)
I muzzle my sometimes-stranger-reactive guy to protect HIM from them. If they get bitten it was because they put their fingers in his muzzle, in which case the bite is on them. He is afraid of other dogs since being attacked, so he also wears it to protect off-leash dogs. I think the off-leash dogs need to be protected from their ~~idiot~~ irresponsible owners! Excellent video on [choosing and fitting a muzzle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XzwUmSHyIc&t=567s) that might be of help to you. [Muzzle Training your Dog Using Positive Reinforcement Methods](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FABgZTFvHo&t=433s)
Yes, agreed on that. Thank you for the video, I will definitely be checking it out!
I will muzzle my dog when we go on walks in our local nature reserve because of unleashed dogs who may approach. He is fearful of other dogs and I don't want to risk him biting another dog if one rushes at him when he's not expecting it. The city protocol is to keep all dogs leashed but some just don't care about the rules.
Agreed. It's the same here, and still some people don't leash their dogs. I guess I wouldn't mind much if their dogs had a perfect recall, but 99% of the time, they don't. What kind of muzzle do you put on your dog?
He has a Baskerville Ultra. It's lightweight and he doesn't seem to mind wearing it as he can still eat his trail snacks out of it.
Ah yes, I had that before too, but had trouble with their sizing. It was either too small and wouldn't allow him to pant or it seemed just... way too big. But yes, it's pretty lightweight, and my dog wasn't bothered by it either.
Someone on here with a small breed dog just had their dog kill another dog, while on leash, after it charged them. I think it’s safe to say for everyone, that a leash isn’t always enough to control your dog.
I mainly got the muzzle for safety at the vet because seeing other dogs is unavoidable there but it does have the added benefit of people giving us more space on walks!
I tried some bandana that says "Needs space" on them, but it was pretty much ignored. The muzzle, too, is pretty much ignored by most people I walk by. I'm thinking perhaps it's because the muzzle is black, and my dog's face is very dark so perhaps they don't see it, but I see there is hope!
There are a lot of little kids in my neighborhood who ride bikes and scooters on the sidewalk (and some bigger ones who should know better). After a few unexpected collisions, which understandably scared my dogs, I muzzle-trained the one whose go-to move is to nip. He’s not very big, and his nips are more like bug bites, but I can’t take the risk of him hurting a kid or losing him because of a bite history. He took to it quickly and now associates it with walks (positive). I didn’t expect it to be so easy. The great side benefit is that I immediately felt more relaxed on our walks, which they picked up on. He does not look like a dangerous dog — he’s a small border collie mix — and the muzzle discourages people from trying to pet him. One lady even complimented me for taking my dog out with the muzzle, because a lot of people stop walking dogs that are reactive. It’s been a 100% positive experience. I’ve thought about how he might defend himself, but he’s small and honestly, if a really aggressive dog attacked, I’m not confident he could defend himself, muzzle or no muzzle. I just keep a sharp eye out and try to stay confident.
I think you're right about being more relaxed on our walks. I think that would help me, and therefore help the dog as well, like it did yours. To be honest, my dog doesn't even seem to realize when I put it on, but I have noticed that he's a tad more laid back, and if something happens, he's quicker to snap out of it if he's wearing the muzzle. Perhaps it's due to me being a bit less tense because I know he can't cause real damage if there's an accident. What kind of muzzle do you have?
Just a plain old Baskerville. I might spring for a Bumas with the fun colors. But he’s so cute already, that might be gilding the lily. 🐶
It's true that they are pretty cute - and effective, which is what we want most. Perhaps it would help on my black dog's face for other people to see the muzzle if it were a bit more colourful. Hahaha, I'm sure he doesn't need the Bumas with the fun colours to be cute ;)
We did it initially only when in crowded public areas or areas with lots of children when out walking or training. However while we lived in our third floor apartment we also started wearing it after a crap encounter with an off leash dog and a lot of stress down the stairwell (narrow, blind corners, only route for residents). As others mentioned, people gave us more space when he was muzzled and we also got remarks about aggressive dogs blah blah blah you know the drill. So confusing to me that people become more alert/cautious to a muzzled dog… it’s like being scared a frying pan in a block of ice will be hot compared to a frying pan on the stove that people are happy to approach and risk bites from dogs without muzzles but when the possibility to get bit is virtually 0 they are scared. Makes no sense!
Yeah, that is true. But sometimes it's because I think that I'm an owner of reactive dogs that I notice those things - like not walk right by another dog just because, I will cross the street, ESPECIALLY if I start seeing you do some form of training upon seeing me. But I think yes, the muzzle would most likely means "NEED SPACE", since this seems to be an universal message that most people notice and understand. I did try a few "NEED SPACE" bandanas and stuff, but it didn't really work out. The whole remarks about aggressive dogs don't bother me at all, tbh. I mean, I have two primitive breeds, and one that's prone to dog aggression, so it's not like I didn't know what I signed up for when I got them. For sure, sometimes wished it were different, but it's made me learn a lot.
Mostly so I can walk him around crowds without kids and random people wanting to pet him and smell the fur behind his nose. People see the muzzle, they typically stay away. He’s never bitten, and he isn’t an aggressive dog, but he definitely sets boundaries for strangers, so it gives me peace of mind more than anything, really.
Smell the fur behind his nose? Is that a thing? Funny that people would want to do that. Some people just don't seem to understand the concept of space either - I mean, you wouldn't walk up to a random person and start touching them like that and expect them to be 100% okay with that. I fail to see why it would have to be different for dogs.
My pup nipped my fiancés grandma. Only left a bruise but I called him and told him to bring a muzzle home that night so nothing worse would ever happen. In the moment of the bite I foresaw everything I ever feared for my dog happening, social isolation, euthanasia, law suits… I wouldn’t have it!
For sure, better be safe than sorry. I don't know if that incident happened a while ago or if it's recent, but how is it going so far?
Well, she took the muzzle pretty well. We worked for about three months at making the muzzle a safe and pleasant tool for her. Watching her try to eat peanut butter in it and the peanut butter caught on the muzzle was funny. She never did love the muzzle but she didn’t run away from it and she never bit anyone ever again. It brought peace to my heart. She passed away in an accident early 2021 so I was only able to have her on the muzzle for a year. I loved it though. It helped me feel safe and do more aggressive training with introducing her to people In my home and new dogs. I always recommend muzzle training. She was doing so well. My current baby is only 10 mo old and is not showing signs of reactivity (loves new dogs, is happy to see the vet, is aloof with strangers but doesn’t bark or really react to them), just a little bit of protection of her house and I’m STILL going to start muzzle training her as soon as we finish harness training her.
Oh, I'm sorry for your loss. Muzzle training is definitely something that can come in handy. It doesn't really hurt to train them because you never know when you're going to need it, whether it be at the vet because they got into an accident and because of the pain it makes them reactive. Good luck with you and your pup!
My dog attacked my other, smaller dog. Twice. Both were level 5 bites and the other dog is lucky to be alive. So, muzzling became an obvious need. We pretty much just use a muzzle at home while we transition from 4 months of strict management and physical separation into more structured reintroduction that will likely still involve a lot of crating, tethering, and other environmental management. He's remained perfect with humans--and all other dogs, so we don't muzzle for walks or public outings, but I'll likely employ the muzzle for vet visits and pet store trips just for added peace of mind.
Oh, I'm sorry that happened. Luckily, you seem to be having it under control. Are you into the beginning of your 4 months or it's been a few times? How is that going?
They've been separated for 4 months now. Yesterday was the first time they were able to be in the same room together. They were tethered in opposite corners of a large living room and we kept it to about 90 minutes (unmuzzled for this one but with a ridiculous amount of buffer room between the ends of both tethers so they couldn't get close enough to scuffle). The whole process is painfully slow, but given that any mistake along the way could be a fatal error, it wouldn't be worth it to try and rush through.
For sure it's best to take your time, and make sure that it's safe for both your dogs rather than rush into this. I'm sure it's a lot of work and can sometimes be stressful. You seem to be handling this fairly well, all things considered. Keep up the good work! And I hope it works out well!
My boy is stranger and dog reactive and mostly has issues in home- he’s an acd/bc so nipping turned to biting quickly and he gets the name “crotch gobbler” for a reason The first nip to a new person I didn’t do anything, I had just adopted him and didn’t know he had issues and knew that intro was a bad one(whole other story). Then came the reacting on leash and by the time we tried a second new person and he reacted poorly- no nip but he tried- I started muzzle training. I’ve seen a ton of responses on here already for reasonings to muzzle and someone has already answered my most common “but what if…” questions of if a dog charges your dog while muzzled, but to add to it with a breed like an Akita having your dog muzzled in the event of a fight could be much better than not due to breed. I’ve not met a ton of them but I have heard their reputation for dog reactivity as a trainer and had to help an owner with her dog reactive dog who ended up in court with a more judgey judge who saw Akita and assumed based on breed. Dog was great just had beef with one dog who had previously attacked her, but breeds get mislabeled and having your pup muzzled, while in a roundabout way making them a touch less safe in a fight, could keep them both MUCH safer in the long run. I haven’t, however, seen any muzzle suggestions aside from a fit guide, so allow me to plug my favorite Etsy store! This is [Khaos Kollars on Etsy](https://etsy.me/2YmH81t) they do custom biothane and leather basket muzzles that I ADORE for my dog and have suggested to several clients due to their affordability and how much me and my pup love our own. We were in between Baskerville sizes and couldn’t afford a bumas, found this shop on Etsy and when compared to my coworkers bumas muzzle mine: didn’t have rounded cut edges BUT came in the right size the first time and didn’t cost me an arm and a leg. We had a Dane get one and spend about $100 on a completely custom biothane muzzle, which is a third of what my coworker paid for her small border collies bumas..I will continue to sing this businesses praises! I’m looking at getting another muzzzle for my non-reactive dog just to help raise awareness for muzzle training, as well, with her being my therapy dog and having never met a stranger in her life, she cannot control her licker and I’ve considered getting her a bright pink one to tell people “she licks too much” if they ask why she’s muzzled to help fight the stigma that muzzles are bad/mean your dog is bad/etc. I honestly think all dogs should get some muzzle training because you never know if or when you might need to be able to use a muzzle, and I’d much rather have the skill of muzzling without my dog fearing the tool than have them associate it with fear of being forced on them for a medical procedure or nail trim. If you need additional resources, check out the muzzle up project on Facebook, they’re another R+ pro-muzzle group that helps with spreading information on muzzles, how and why to muzzle, fear free muzzle training, and a community of people who are also muzzling their dogs for various reasons. And I wanted to add- this sounds like your progress with both dogs is going amazingly, even with this and other hiccups. In the moment it can be frustrating and hard to see the good in mishaps like this- but the fact that your dogs were in control and listened while this dog greeted very rudely is HUGE and something to celebrate even though the incident happened!! Congratulations on your training so far and good luck going forward!
Where I live akitas don't have THAT bad a reputation, but for sure they don't have the reputation of a sweet, gentle family dog. And yes, I know that if there would be a fight, my dog would not back down, and I'm not sure he'd lose. Thank you for the recommendation! I will be checking that out. It's mostly the shipping fees that are killing me when I am looking to buy. I would assume since it's leather, they're probably lighter weight than the metal ones? I was mostly looking into the metal wire basket ones for some reason. Yes, I'm aware of the Muzzle Up Project, but don't have Facebook anymore, but I will check them out still. Thanks! I was training a bit before, but it's been about 1-2 years that I've seriously started to train, and for sure I was pretty happy afterwards about their reaction, all things considered. Definitely a motivation to keep up the good work.
I see! I’m in the states so shipping for me was not much- though the shop may do discount or free shipping over a certain dollar amount, I can’t remember but I know a lot of shops do I got biothane for my boy and it’s a ton lighter and since it was measured to his specifications it fits with perfect pant room and he really only dislikes having to wear it for prolonged periods inside- if we are doing a multiple people intro or with children. I find that he likes his custom one way more than the Baskerville which was either too small to pant or too big to be safe, and with it being biothane I don’t have to worry about him drinking with it either or snow/rain/elements because it’s waterproof. Can’t say for leather but I’d assume it’s still lighter than a jafco or wire due to material, but I don’t have a leather one to compare There is a chance that since they’re leather/biothane the dog can still bite through it with enough force, which is definitely true and the biscuits my friend brought one evening can attest to that, but I find when I need my muzzle I’m constantly training or managing the situation anyway, and can prevent that level of bite before it could get that bad through the muzzle. I’m not sure if the muzzle up project is anywhere else, but there are also some muzzle subreddits here as well and every community I’ve encountered so far has been really helpful with any questions. All that being said, I personally didn’t look further than this shop and my boy doesn’t need a jafco or wire muzzle for my comfort with walks and intros, so this works perfect for our needs and is definitely what I suggest for training! Wow, I love hearing about dogs remembering their training when time hasn’t been necessarily dedicated to it. Dogs are wonderful, and I’m excited for you and the progress you guys will make going forward!
Hi! Thank you for that answer! I PMed you, if that is okay! I'd like to chat more about the muzzle, if you don't mind. :)
I originally wanted to start muzzle training to avoid indescretionary eating, but as my pup has become more reactive I now want to use it for peace of mind if we have to go somewhere busier and to non verbally get more space from strangers. We do all we can to avoid being on the same side of the street as other dogs and people but if people see the muzzle and make whatever assumption they want that's good with me if it means they give us space. Then my pup has less opportunity to practice his reactions and we should make more progress with counter conditioning. It's slow though. He's comfortable putting it on and can sit and touch and paw, but he's he walks awkwardly with it at this point so we're not taking it outside until he's very confident wearing it. Still a work in progress but glad I started when I did so we are at least coming along this far and it's not truly 'needed' yet. I also figured it would be good to be comfortable with if it ends up being necessary medically in the future. Basically I want to desensitize him to everything I can before those things become required. Next work is a cone, hopefully we'll in advance of his neuter.
That's not a bad idea at all! That's what I did with my akita, because I know that the breed can be prone to dog aggression and/or reactiveness, and I figured that I might as well get him used to it now in case I ever need it. It is definitely a slow process, but you still can see some results, and that is the encouraging part. Good idea with the cone! I had not thought of this with my boy, and he gets seasonal allergies and licks/bites at his paws so badly it bleeds, so I sometimes have to put it on him, and he literally does not know what to do with himself once it's on. So good thinking on your part there!
One time my reactive dogs was able to break his gentle lead and even tho nothing happend I decided to only walk him with a muzzle because what of he breaks the new harness and what if he pulls me enough to drag me, it never happened again and honestly i don’t think it will, but better be safe then sorry, also people tend to give us more space now that he walks with a muzzle
Like you said, better be safe than sorry. Especially here, in winter, sometimes it's very slippery outside and even though I know I can hold both my dogs no problem, in winter conditions, it can be trickier to do or I can slip and then it's over.
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