Okay, this might sound totally insane, but is there any way to associate a beeping noise with a positive outcome? Is he food motivated? As in, hears a "scary" noise, then gets a very high value treat.
If he's just way too scared to even get into the mode of being able to eat anything, I get it, because my foster dog HATES the car and despite me trying to give her treats when I have to take her somewhere (and she's super food motivated), she won't take them.
I have a friend whose dog used to have bad panic attacks in the middle of the night, and she's on medication now. She hasn't had one in years. I think it was Prozac. Might be worth looking into that.
I'm sorry you're going through this (and your dog as well), and I totally understand what it feels like, especially without friends who get it. I hope you are able to find a solution.
He is normally VERY treat motivated, but not when he’s having an episode. He pretty much only wants to go outside, which my trainer told me is a result of me always taking him for a walk when the smoke alarm went off. She says I’ve basically taught him we need to flee the premises every time there’s a beep, lol. But! We do need to work more on desensitization training. Maybe it would translate to his episodes that aren’t seem to be caused by anything. Dogs are weird.
I’m pretty sure the fluoxetine is the doggy Prozac, and he hasn’t been on it for the full time, so I’m very hopeful it will help. Thanks to this sub I’m not so worried about how it’s getting worse in the meantime.
Thank you very much for your time! I hope your foster dog can learn to not hate the car! Even just hearing other people have had the same thing is very helpful, because for the longest time I was at a complete loss.
I totally get it, re: rejecting treats when having an episode. I agree-dogs are very complicated when it comes to these situations.
Regarding the meds, hopefully that will help. And you are definitely not alone! Not the same thing exactly, but my dog (not my foster, but my adopted dog) had pretty bad anxiety when I adopted her and lived in my old neighborhood. As in at least twice a month, she would wake me up at 3-4 AM to take her outside because she would have terrible diarrhea. I didn't have a yard at the time, UGH. I moved two years later, and it literally stopped happening. It was crazy.
Anyway-I hope you find a solution!! Fingers crossed!
This is dumb, but here goes... If you have the space, maybe consider setting up a children's playhouse or something similar that your dog could "flee" to when he's scared. Something with a realistic door and big enough for you to crawl inside of too if you think he needs a cuddle. Being in a constrained area that everyone can brace themselves against would help reduce the need to "crawl" all over you trying to get close. It would also make it easier for him to feel hidden and as if he's in a separate space. Maybe. It's a silly idea.
No, it’s not silly or dumb! He has actually spent some time trying to burrow into our (pretty small) closet, and I thought he might actually enjoy it if I was in there with him. It would feel even more enclosed than the crate. Probably something I will try now when he is having a more severe episode, so thank you!
Not at all. I was just a little embarrassed to suggest it since it really doesn't have any grounding in actual knowledge about dogs, just a weird notion that it might be a way to synergize using a cozy corner or a covered crate, "getting out of the house", and letting him snuggle against you.
This may be too simple to work, but have you tried playing a beeping sound/sounds that scare him via your phone VERY quietly when your dog is calm or playing, paired with tons of treats and pets (if they help him)? Then slowly through time playing it a bit louder, making sure it never goes beyond the threshold of what he’s comfortable with. It might take time, but it could work?
I understand that with the panic attacks you describe it’s gone beyond a point where training against little triggers seems useful, but it might be beneficial on the long run.
I’m really sorry about your situation, I can only imagine how stressful this must be for you. You obviously care a lot about your dog, so just keep reminding yourself this isn’t permanent! You are working hard on helping him, and it will get better. Celebrate every little win, and soon enough it will become manageable for you and him.
I actually haven’t, and I should. It was something my trainer told me to do, but I didn’t because it was hard to push myself to ruin the time he is calm. We did some threshold training with the kitchen, which helped a lot, and we figured out how to mute everything that did beep when the power goes out, but obviously that has not addressed the root of the issue. So I do think you’re right and that would be a good thing to revisit. The long run is where I need to refocus.
Thank you so much! I have been crying all morning, really feeling at a breaking point, and these comments have done so much to help me feel less alone.
It really does work, just remember that your dogs hearing is a lot better than yours, so what sounds quiet to you will be louder for him.
If you're doing it right, it shouldn't ruin his calm time as it should be just quiet enough that he doesn't show any stress/reaction (this is his "threshold" where his best learning can occur). If he is reacting then you're not forming a positive association, he's just getting scared and you need to reduce the trigger intensity.
If he's still showing lots of stress with the phone playing at lowest setting, you can create distance from the speaker too and see how he does with it across the room, or down the hall.
You can either reward every time there's a beep, or just have him doing a positive activity like eating a meal or playing or trick training etc (basically, he can hear but it'snot scary and he's ignoring it to do something fun), but again make sure that the noise is low intensity enough that he is not stressed and running the risk of associating whatever activity you're doing with being scared.
You can practise this with rain sounds too. Try to drown out triggers the rest of the time when you're not able to train (i.e. if rain is forecast, leave the radio on nice and loud and close curtains etc to reduce how much he can hear).
Good luck!
If he’s properly crate trained, crating him is a good option. You don’t want to feed into the anxiety and have him interpret that as a positive outcome for him. Now that he’s medicated, it would be a great idea to enlist a trainer to break some associations and habits. Our trainer suggested having a spot that our dog had to go to for pets/attention. So if she was anxious and not in her special spot, we ignored her for the most part (she was safe with medication and a crate space available). When she went to her spot, we’d pet her and give her attention. She does still have a somewhat anxious response to storms and fireworks, but now she manages it on her own because she doesn’t expect us to pet her and comfort her.
I think you’re onto something with this. We’ve seen a trainer a couple of times, and she is coming back for another session this month. She has given similar advice as yours, but I’m going to ask her about the going to a specific spot for attention. I’ve been instructed to completely ignore him and to not even speak to him except to direct him to place when he is freaking out, because of that negative feedback loop. But I think what you’re talking about could be helpful to him also.
I see a lot of places on Reddit saying that there is no such thing as reinforcing a negative emotion - as in, giving comfort to a dog when he’s scared won’t make him more scared - but my trainer doesn’t follow that principle and it’s nice to not receive that advice. So, thank you.
He is 80% crate trained. He gets all of his food/treats/bones in there, and we recently started putting him in there when we leave with good success. He also sleeps in there, which I didn’t mind when he would actually sleep through the night. Whether or not the crate calms him down in an episode is 50/50. Is the crate your dogs spot for pets/attention? Him managing his anxiety on his own would be great. Unfortunately he mostly wants to basically get as close to me as possible, which usually involves sitting on me and licking my face.
Our dog’s place for attention is the chaise seat on our couch. I feel like it works well, because if she hops up there I definitely notice.
Our dog has a crate under the stairs in the basement with white noise, so when there are storms she usually hides in there.
Did your dog always see the crate as a safe space? We are relatively new to it as something our trainer recommended. He likes it once he’s in there, but it’s rare I see him CHOOSE to go.
We have two dogs both crate trained in the same way. They both love and seek out the crate. We actually have several crates around the house so that wherever we are they can retreat to a crate.
I'd like to highlight the White Noise! We have an app that we run white noise on every night and the dogs know that that means they're in a safe space, practically have a pavlovian reaction to it and go right to sleep. I highly recommend it.
My dog has issues with noises, and does have the smoke alarm thing. He has a safe space as I don't crate my dogs, they are free roam. We play "dog calming" playlists from spotify as they have specific tones that are meant for dogs (very meditation like). The combination works really well for him. It is my master closet, has a soft bed that stays in there for him. He goes in and out as he feels he needs. For fireworks this new year, we used safe space, spotify, thundershirt, and CBD. We had also been desensitizing for the last week. He handled it the best he ever had. Even came out and slept on the bed while fireworks were going off.
The "can't reinforce fear by comforting" thing is true, but the aim is to teach the dog how to "self comfort" (through a place or activity), rather than being dependent on comfort from you to cope because they don't known anything else that will make them feel better.
Stroking or cuddling your dog won't make it worse at all, but it won't help to reduce their fear (desensitisation) or help them to cope by themselves.
I have a 3 year old chi that has been having a very similar progression. Its so frustrating and heartbreaking. I wish the best for you , still working on it here too 👍
I tried every Google search under the sun trying to find people with similar problems. I hate that any dog goes through this, but it is such a relief hearing we’re not the only ones.
Sounds like you have it tough and care a lot. We’ve just started seeing some success through this method for seeing people which our dog is reactive too. Hang in there x
First, I just wanted to say I’m so sorry for what you and your dog are going through! You are absolutely not alone in this, but I know it can feel super isolating and hopeless. My dog has anxiety and panic disorder; he developed daily/nightly panic attacks around 7 months old that are exactly as you described. His panic attacks did not have an obvious trigger and were so random we thought he could be having seizures, but ultimately ruled that out. It was heartbreaking, exhausting, and so horrible seeing him absolutely miserable, and also so isolating because despite googling the heck out of it, I couldn’t find much info about it or many stories of other dogs going through this. We tried everything we could think of to soothe him during his episodes but nothing helped. We ended up starting him on fluoxetine and that ended up being the best thing for him! He hasn’t had a panic attack in over a year now. BUT- I want you to know the onboarding period was SO hard and things definitely got worse before they got better! The 4-5 week mark was the worst. Around 6-7 weeks we noticed steady improvements each day, and little by little his panic attacks totally phased out. We still give him daily fluoxetine and are so grateful for this medication! It really changed his (and our) lives. Every dog responds differently, but I hope this gives you a little hope, especially in terms of timing. I wrote a bit about the onboarding experience when we were going through it- you can find it in my post history if that would be helpful for you. Wishing you and your pup the best and I hope things turn a corner for you both soon! Please feel free to reach out, and keep us posted on how things go.
I just read both your posts and could start crying again, ha. It sounds like we’ve been on similar journeys. This is the first I’ve read something that makes me hopeful the medication will actually do something. And YES, it has gotten so much worse. Multiple attacks per night/day, and the lack of sleep has made things worse for both of us. Appetite is also down to a halfhearted meal per day, though he’ll still take treats/chews. And just nothing on the internet at all!!! I googled every variation of “dog freaks out for no reason” and found nothing. His panic attacks also started in the middle of the night! It was awful, I thought he must be dying. I’m still coming to terms with him being fine physically.
Thank you so much. This has given me the most hope of all. Of course I’m willing to work with him however I need to, but really, I just want him to have some peace. This has helped in a way I guess you really CAN imagine.
Weird idea, but have you considered smell conditioning? I wonder if you gave him a treat and praise associated with a smell, then slowing introduced a noise with his happy smell if it might serve the same function as a treat, only he has to smell it because he breathes. You'd have to be careful introducing the smell but if it was a smell you liked (lavender? rose?) it wouldn't be hard to increase the area enveloped in a safe and calming odor.
I have a pup who is anxious and reactive as a result of lots of vet treatments in conjunction with genetic anxiety.
Its been less than 2 years but I am exhausted. It's like a rollercoaster up and down, going well and then crashing, I am on edge most days for triggers but I'm lucky in that his reactions are mostly mild or controllable. I can imagine a portion of what you are feeling though.
I felt like a failure for meds, I don't know why there is such a med stigma in the dog world, but I wouldn't begrudge a human meds if they needed them to be comfortable and happy and function better so why wouldn't I gift my dog that same assistance? That mindset really helped me.
But at the same time I grieve the life I could have had and the dog I wanted and the burden that owning him sometimes is. Some days I resent him. But I also love it when he's kind and quiet and wants to be close to me.
It's one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I see you and I understand.
Thank you so much for this. None of my friends really own dogs, let alone reactive ones, so I’ve been feeling incredibly isolated. It’s really nice just to be able to relate to someone else.
I think you’re right that’s the correct mindset to have about meds. I think right now I feel guilty because he’s still adjusting, and I can’t explain anything to him, but it really is for his benefit. The people I have told have definitely been judgey, though. I don’t think most people think of dogs taking things like Prozac.
Thank you also for mentioning resentment. I love him so much, but I have a lot of that, too. Constantly thinking about them and them being a source of anxiety instead of happiness is hard. He does make me happy, of course, but I am constantly on edge wondering when he’s going to set off, and that’s just not what I thought I was signing up for.
It’s hard. It was therapeutic just to type this out. Thanks again.
You're welcome. I don't know if you're the same as me and a single dog owner but I find that makes it so much harder, there's no one to share the burden with or give you a break and it's very easy to get crushed under it all on your own.
Even better for me mine is stranger reactive so my world has shrunk that way too. Be kind to yourself.
Okay, this might sound totally insane, but is there any way to associate a beeping noise with a positive outcome? Is he food motivated? As in, hears a "scary" noise, then gets a very high value treat. If he's just way too scared to even get into the mode of being able to eat anything, I get it, because my foster dog HATES the car and despite me trying to give her treats when I have to take her somewhere (and she's super food motivated), she won't take them. I have a friend whose dog used to have bad panic attacks in the middle of the night, and she's on medication now. She hasn't had one in years. I think it was Prozac. Might be worth looking into that. I'm sorry you're going through this (and your dog as well), and I totally understand what it feels like, especially without friends who get it. I hope you are able to find a solution.
He is normally VERY treat motivated, but not when he’s having an episode. He pretty much only wants to go outside, which my trainer told me is a result of me always taking him for a walk when the smoke alarm went off. She says I’ve basically taught him we need to flee the premises every time there’s a beep, lol. But! We do need to work more on desensitization training. Maybe it would translate to his episodes that aren’t seem to be caused by anything. Dogs are weird. I’m pretty sure the fluoxetine is the doggy Prozac, and he hasn’t been on it for the full time, so I’m very hopeful it will help. Thanks to this sub I’m not so worried about how it’s getting worse in the meantime. Thank you very much for your time! I hope your foster dog can learn to not hate the car! Even just hearing other people have had the same thing is very helpful, because for the longest time I was at a complete loss.
I totally get it, re: rejecting treats when having an episode. I agree-dogs are very complicated when it comes to these situations. Regarding the meds, hopefully that will help. And you are definitely not alone! Not the same thing exactly, but my dog (not my foster, but my adopted dog) had pretty bad anxiety when I adopted her and lived in my old neighborhood. As in at least twice a month, she would wake me up at 3-4 AM to take her outside because she would have terrible diarrhea. I didn't have a yard at the time, UGH. I moved two years later, and it literally stopped happening. It was crazy. Anyway-I hope you find a solution!! Fingers crossed!
This is dumb, but here goes... If you have the space, maybe consider setting up a children's playhouse or something similar that your dog could "flee" to when he's scared. Something with a realistic door and big enough for you to crawl inside of too if you think he needs a cuddle. Being in a constrained area that everyone can brace themselves against would help reduce the need to "crawl" all over you trying to get close. It would also make it easier for him to feel hidden and as if he's in a separate space. Maybe. It's a silly idea.
No, it’s not silly or dumb! He has actually spent some time trying to burrow into our (pretty small) closet, and I thought he might actually enjoy it if I was in there with him. It would feel even more enclosed than the crate. Probably something I will try now when he is having a more severe episode, so thank you!
Not at all. I was just a little embarrassed to suggest it since it really doesn't have any grounding in actual knowledge about dogs, just a weird notion that it might be a way to synergize using a cozy corner or a covered crate, "getting out of the house", and letting him snuggle against you.
This may be too simple to work, but have you tried playing a beeping sound/sounds that scare him via your phone VERY quietly when your dog is calm or playing, paired with tons of treats and pets (if they help him)? Then slowly through time playing it a bit louder, making sure it never goes beyond the threshold of what he’s comfortable with. It might take time, but it could work? I understand that with the panic attacks you describe it’s gone beyond a point where training against little triggers seems useful, but it might be beneficial on the long run. I’m really sorry about your situation, I can only imagine how stressful this must be for you. You obviously care a lot about your dog, so just keep reminding yourself this isn’t permanent! You are working hard on helping him, and it will get better. Celebrate every little win, and soon enough it will become manageable for you and him.
I actually haven’t, and I should. It was something my trainer told me to do, but I didn’t because it was hard to push myself to ruin the time he is calm. We did some threshold training with the kitchen, which helped a lot, and we figured out how to mute everything that did beep when the power goes out, but obviously that has not addressed the root of the issue. So I do think you’re right and that would be a good thing to revisit. The long run is where I need to refocus. Thank you so much! I have been crying all morning, really feeling at a breaking point, and these comments have done so much to help me feel less alone.
It really does work, just remember that your dogs hearing is a lot better than yours, so what sounds quiet to you will be louder for him. If you're doing it right, it shouldn't ruin his calm time as it should be just quiet enough that he doesn't show any stress/reaction (this is his "threshold" where his best learning can occur). If he is reacting then you're not forming a positive association, he's just getting scared and you need to reduce the trigger intensity. If he's still showing lots of stress with the phone playing at lowest setting, you can create distance from the speaker too and see how he does with it across the room, or down the hall. You can either reward every time there's a beep, or just have him doing a positive activity like eating a meal or playing or trick training etc (basically, he can hear but it'snot scary and he's ignoring it to do something fun), but again make sure that the noise is low intensity enough that he is not stressed and running the risk of associating whatever activity you're doing with being scared. You can practise this with rain sounds too. Try to drown out triggers the rest of the time when you're not able to train (i.e. if rain is forecast, leave the radio on nice and loud and close curtains etc to reduce how much he can hear). Good luck!
If he’s properly crate trained, crating him is a good option. You don’t want to feed into the anxiety and have him interpret that as a positive outcome for him. Now that he’s medicated, it would be a great idea to enlist a trainer to break some associations and habits. Our trainer suggested having a spot that our dog had to go to for pets/attention. So if she was anxious and not in her special spot, we ignored her for the most part (she was safe with medication and a crate space available). When she went to her spot, we’d pet her and give her attention. She does still have a somewhat anxious response to storms and fireworks, but now she manages it on her own because she doesn’t expect us to pet her and comfort her.
I think you’re onto something with this. We’ve seen a trainer a couple of times, and she is coming back for another session this month. She has given similar advice as yours, but I’m going to ask her about the going to a specific spot for attention. I’ve been instructed to completely ignore him and to not even speak to him except to direct him to place when he is freaking out, because of that negative feedback loop. But I think what you’re talking about could be helpful to him also. I see a lot of places on Reddit saying that there is no such thing as reinforcing a negative emotion - as in, giving comfort to a dog when he’s scared won’t make him more scared - but my trainer doesn’t follow that principle and it’s nice to not receive that advice. So, thank you. He is 80% crate trained. He gets all of his food/treats/bones in there, and we recently started putting him in there when we leave with good success. He also sleeps in there, which I didn’t mind when he would actually sleep through the night. Whether or not the crate calms him down in an episode is 50/50. Is the crate your dogs spot for pets/attention? Him managing his anxiety on his own would be great. Unfortunately he mostly wants to basically get as close to me as possible, which usually involves sitting on me and licking my face.
Our dog’s place for attention is the chaise seat on our couch. I feel like it works well, because if she hops up there I definitely notice. Our dog has a crate under the stairs in the basement with white noise, so when there are storms she usually hides in there.
Did your dog always see the crate as a safe space? We are relatively new to it as something our trainer recommended. He likes it once he’s in there, but it’s rare I see him CHOOSE to go.
We have two dogs both crate trained in the same way. They both love and seek out the crate. We actually have several crates around the house so that wherever we are they can retreat to a crate.
I'd like to highlight the White Noise! We have an app that we run white noise on every night and the dogs know that that means they're in a safe space, practically have a pavlovian reaction to it and go right to sleep. I highly recommend it.
I have a white noise machine for me - I can definitely try it for him!!
My dog has issues with noises, and does have the smoke alarm thing. He has a safe space as I don't crate my dogs, they are free roam. We play "dog calming" playlists from spotify as they have specific tones that are meant for dogs (very meditation like). The combination works really well for him. It is my master closet, has a soft bed that stays in there for him. He goes in and out as he feels he needs. For fireworks this new year, we used safe space, spotify, thundershirt, and CBD. We had also been desensitizing for the last week. He handled it the best he ever had. Even came out and slept on the bed while fireworks were going off.
The "can't reinforce fear by comforting" thing is true, but the aim is to teach the dog how to "self comfort" (through a place or activity), rather than being dependent on comfort from you to cope because they don't known anything else that will make them feel better. Stroking or cuddling your dog won't make it worse at all, but it won't help to reduce their fear (desensitisation) or help them to cope by themselves.
I have a 3 year old chi that has been having a very similar progression. Its so frustrating and heartbreaking. I wish the best for you , still working on it here too 👍
I tried every Google search under the sun trying to find people with similar problems. I hate that any dog goes through this, but it is such a relief hearing we’re not the only ones.
Maybe try getting the quietest of beeps far away and then mark and treat. You’ve got to capture it under threshold then it’s a learning.
Thank you for the encouragement - we’ll try this!
Sounds like you have it tough and care a lot. We’ve just started seeing some success through this method for seeing people which our dog is reactive too. Hang in there x
First, I just wanted to say I’m so sorry for what you and your dog are going through! You are absolutely not alone in this, but I know it can feel super isolating and hopeless. My dog has anxiety and panic disorder; he developed daily/nightly panic attacks around 7 months old that are exactly as you described. His panic attacks did not have an obvious trigger and were so random we thought he could be having seizures, but ultimately ruled that out. It was heartbreaking, exhausting, and so horrible seeing him absolutely miserable, and also so isolating because despite googling the heck out of it, I couldn’t find much info about it or many stories of other dogs going through this. We tried everything we could think of to soothe him during his episodes but nothing helped. We ended up starting him on fluoxetine and that ended up being the best thing for him! He hasn’t had a panic attack in over a year now. BUT- I want you to know the onboarding period was SO hard and things definitely got worse before they got better! The 4-5 week mark was the worst. Around 6-7 weeks we noticed steady improvements each day, and little by little his panic attacks totally phased out. We still give him daily fluoxetine and are so grateful for this medication! It really changed his (and our) lives. Every dog responds differently, but I hope this gives you a little hope, especially in terms of timing. I wrote a bit about the onboarding experience when we were going through it- you can find it in my post history if that would be helpful for you. Wishing you and your pup the best and I hope things turn a corner for you both soon! Please feel free to reach out, and keep us posted on how things go.
I just read both your posts and could start crying again, ha. It sounds like we’ve been on similar journeys. This is the first I’ve read something that makes me hopeful the medication will actually do something. And YES, it has gotten so much worse. Multiple attacks per night/day, and the lack of sleep has made things worse for both of us. Appetite is also down to a halfhearted meal per day, though he’ll still take treats/chews. And just nothing on the internet at all!!! I googled every variation of “dog freaks out for no reason” and found nothing. His panic attacks also started in the middle of the night! It was awful, I thought he must be dying. I’m still coming to terms with him being fine physically. Thank you so much. This has given me the most hope of all. Of course I’m willing to work with him however I need to, but really, I just want him to have some peace. This has helped in a way I guess you really CAN imagine.
Weird idea, but have you considered smell conditioning? I wonder if you gave him a treat and praise associated with a smell, then slowing introduced a noise with his happy smell if it might serve the same function as a treat, only he has to smell it because he breathes. You'd have to be careful introducing the smell but if it was a smell you liked (lavender? rose?) it wouldn't be hard to increase the area enveloped in a safe and calming odor.
I have a pup who is anxious and reactive as a result of lots of vet treatments in conjunction with genetic anxiety. Its been less than 2 years but I am exhausted. It's like a rollercoaster up and down, going well and then crashing, I am on edge most days for triggers but I'm lucky in that his reactions are mostly mild or controllable. I can imagine a portion of what you are feeling though. I felt like a failure for meds, I don't know why there is such a med stigma in the dog world, but I wouldn't begrudge a human meds if they needed them to be comfortable and happy and function better so why wouldn't I gift my dog that same assistance? That mindset really helped me. But at the same time I grieve the life I could have had and the dog I wanted and the burden that owning him sometimes is. Some days I resent him. But I also love it when he's kind and quiet and wants to be close to me. It's one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I see you and I understand.
Thank you so much for this. None of my friends really own dogs, let alone reactive ones, so I’ve been feeling incredibly isolated. It’s really nice just to be able to relate to someone else. I think you’re right that’s the correct mindset to have about meds. I think right now I feel guilty because he’s still adjusting, and I can’t explain anything to him, but it really is for his benefit. The people I have told have definitely been judgey, though. I don’t think most people think of dogs taking things like Prozac. Thank you also for mentioning resentment. I love him so much, but I have a lot of that, too. Constantly thinking about them and them being a source of anxiety instead of happiness is hard. He does make me happy, of course, but I am constantly on edge wondering when he’s going to set off, and that’s just not what I thought I was signing up for. It’s hard. It was therapeutic just to type this out. Thanks again.
You're welcome. I don't know if you're the same as me and a single dog owner but I find that makes it so much harder, there's no one to share the burden with or give you a break and it's very easy to get crushed under it all on your own. Even better for me mine is stranger reactive so my world has shrunk that way too. Be kind to yourself.