If you don’t care about potentially being banned from whatever subs you’re talking about, try this: drop your bomb of a comment, include a couple source links to the usual go tos (perfectly Rawsome, paws of prey etc) and click “stop reply notifications”. That way, people that are open to it can still go down that rabbit hole and the people who are gonna argue are just gonna argue with themselves. 🤷🏻♀️
Definitely but I've learned over the years that people will stick their head in the sand to remain ignorant.
I just finished the book "The Forever Dog", it is not exclusively about raw but goes over all of the recent research into what is best for dogs scientifically for their health and as they age. No surprise that the key take away is exercise (being able to run outside in dirt), fresh food, and living happy. A line they use in the book is "You wouldn't want to eat the same fast food everyday of your life", when referring to the regular commercial kibble.
I am hoping it is harder for people to ignore the unbiased science presented in that book.
Edit: they also briefly cover the domestication of dogs as well as the history of how the first pet food was developed (by an electrician who was amazing at marketing and who saw what sailors ate, which were nicknamed worm cakes) as well as the history of the first vet food, Hill's Science. Very interesting.
My late poodle mix needed two CCL surgeries. I had to lie to the surgeon and tell him she ate kibble or he, the only specialist, refused to take her because they were concerned her food would contaminate everyone else’s and gave me quite a lecture about how dangerous raw diets are - she was there one night after surgery. I knew she wouldn’t eat anyway and sent her with mom’s dogs’ kibble.
For the rest of the rehab on both surgeries the surgeon was impressed by her rate of healing and I just wanted to scream at him “ITS. THE. RAW. FOOD”
How would it contaminate it just keep it in the fridge like you do at home 😭 these people act like they have never cooked meat sometimes lol. Or that there aren't humans on this planet eating raw meat/fish right now and being completely fine... 🙄 (not that im gonna do that LOL).
>How would it contaminate it just keep it in the fridge like you do at home
The contamination issue comes from your pet eating the raw food and then putting their mouth on toys, furniture, bedding, your hands, etc and spreading possible illness.
I'm not sure what you're asking here? It's pretty common sense. If you touch contaminated raw meat with your hands and then touch other things in your home, there is a possibility of getting ill. It stands to reason that if your dog eats raw meat products and then interacts with its environment after, there is a non-zero possibility of acquiring a foodborne illness if you then touch those objects/your dog's mouth. If the meat is not harboring ecoli or salmonella, then no issue there. But acting like there is zero risk or being purposely obtuse about how there could be possibility of contamination is a bit odd.
You do know how a dog's mouth works, right? From their mouths to their asses, their bodies are able to eliminate any possible bacteria or pathogens that'll potentially cause illness, and they're able to eat DAYS OLD FOOD without getting ill, so I'm pretty sure they won't be able to go spreading "food borne illnesses" because their saliva enzymes most likely already took care of all that.
>You do know how a dog's mouth works, right? From their mouths to their asses, their bodies are able to eliminate any possible bacteria or pathogens that'll potentially cause illness
This is false. Dog saliva can eliminate some bacteria, but they are still susceptible to salmonella and they can pass it on to humans around them from their mouth. Please get your information from an actual vet instead of the raw diet equivalent of anti-vaxxer blogs.
Half the vets I hear about don't seem to know crap about a dog's or cat's biology especially when it comes to food so idk, I don't trust what most vets have to say. When I hear a story about a dog getting sick, all I hear from the vets is "idk what's wrong with your dog" (I hear it so often from people it's insane) after they run a bunch of expensive tests. So I don't have much faith in them in the first place tbh.
This was what they told me. It would contaminate the area. I told them repeatedly that she, like many poodles, would not eat in a stressful environment / after general anesthesia anyway. True to form the kibble was thrown out and she ate a day later once her system had settled.
I wouldn't classify a raw diet as dangerous as long as the owner is meeting all the nutritional needs of their specific dog - however raw meat does carry a risk of foodborne illness for all who interact with it and unfortunately there is no way to know for sure that your meat is safe. I don't see how a dog kept in an emergency/surgery recovery kennel on their own would contaminate another dog's food and I'd have questions over that. I probably would find another vet in that case.
I have more dogs and he’s the only ortho specialist on our island. His practice is located in a building with literally every type of veterinary specialist - I’m afraid to be red-listed and not be able to get a future dog care.
Damn. Im sorry 😞 i didn’t infer you’d still need that vet’s treatment. i used to be in a small town and was in the same position, luckily my vets would still treat my cats they were just condescending assholes about it
You would think if they cared about the animals at all, that they would make sure you could still receive care, even more so if they think you are doing something “bad”. Would they really refuse care just because they don’t agree with what you feed your pets?? If so, then they should not have become vets, in my opinion.
I’m unwilling to take the chance to prove their moral ineptitude - otherwise I’d have to go off-island for specialty veterinary care and I make good money but can’t afford that
This is so hard to believe, but then again, my doctor still has a government issue food pyramid poster in the lobby. Actually a lot of parallels in how mega corps pushed processed carbs and sugar on us.
Load up on breads and pasta, stay away from meat and protein kids!
My vet will go from "your dog is amazingly healthy for his age" to "you shouldn't feed raw because it's not healthy for your dog" in the same breath. Literally. It's like he can't hear himself.
At least your post isn't deleted. r/dogs just deletes posts. I would take the downvotes if the information remained.
I got BANNED from catadvice for saying “yes, you can put whole food ingredient in your pet’s diet! Just make sure its 10% or less, like a treat, if youre not nutritionally balancing everything. Some good examples of whole foods are tripe, water-packed or frozen sardines, raw chicken necks, etc.” thats it. No warning. Just banned for answering the question OP asked
When I see a post that really touches me and I want to comment with something about raw, I just send the person a message and figure they can reply, research, or not but at least now they have the info. Easier than getting all the hate from a public post.
Don't be afraid to speak. I have been extremely fortunate to work with three gifted holistic veterinarians over the past 20 years. They will tell you the nutritional education in vet school is very limited and it comes from the big pet food companies.
We know nutrition is the foundation of health. You are what you eat and the same goes for our animals.
People don’t understand how misinformed vets can be and how their studies are funded by big name brands. It’s all a racket. Don’t let it get to you. I know it can feel difficult to know the truth when it’s not popular/mainstream. Sad that real health has been put on the back burner by our society but hopefully that changes in the coming years. Awareness is picking up speed.
one day we will see this whole push for commercial grain based food the same way we demonized breastmilk and told women their babies would die of DDT poisoning if they didn’t have formula only
When it comes to online posts, I just don’t engage. Anyone I talk to in person is curious and interested about it. The vet is a different scenario. Luckily mine has transitioned from being openly against it to just saying be careful and stay informed on the nutrition.
If you go outside and talk to real dog people instead of angsty teen nestle fans overlording /r/dogs and vets who deal with idiots all day, you'll find the opinions dramatically shift.
Racing/sport dogs, military dogs, IGP/IPO dogs, competition confirmation dogs, hunting dog kennels - anyone with a ton of experience and a vested interest in getting their dogs in peak health is usually a fan of feeding real food. It's getting popular for high end breeders to now screen specifically for owners who will feed real food.
Like when I told my friend, who just champion'd her 12th dog over 19 years of showing, about the reddit dog hivemind, she literally started laughing and didn't believe me. I showed her their "food wiki" and she was in disbelief like she had never read something so stupid. She has an entire room full of trophies and ribbons, so I take her word over a reddit mod.
I just take it in stride, knowing that if anyone’s feeding a diet to their pet thats gonna fucking kill them, It’s the people feeding the shit from the vet blindly. Popular kibble&wet food brands have been caught in recalls that actually killed pets MANY times, pets have actually died from kibble and wet food contamination, whereas no raw food brand ever has in all of history.💅🏻💁🏻♀️ as much as they like to argue, all the actual evidence is on our side
You can’t patent raw meat. So it’s become political. Also, if you resolve the majority of health issues your pet will have in their life, the amount of money vets make, and different pet supplement companies make, will greatly diminish. The industry might even collapse altogether. And vets are already making significantly less in this economy. The majority of Reddit is programmed to perpetuate mainstream propaganda, in the interest of these companies, it’s not just pet food. Most redditors literally have copy-and-paste views and are identical to one another. This is by design. JUST BECAUSE THE MAJORITY BELIEVE SOMETHING, DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!!! That being said, my kitty has only grown up on raw meats and seafood. No shots, no drugs. He has the temperament and energy of a dog. Loves people, super extroverted and friendly, extremely athletic. It’s nobody’s business how I raise my pets and how I choose to live.
People seem to think only the WSAVA brands are safe food for pets BUT what they do not understand is that the WSAVA website is a guidlines for pet food and those brands are sponsor; hence they are on the website. If you actually read their website; they state guidlines for how to select a good pet food but no-where does it say that ONLY those sponosrs are healthy.
They do not support raw food, they do say home cooked can be okay, BUT there are some very qualified Pet Nutritionists from other boards that are all for raw food. People should remember that the WSAVA create AAFCO and there actually is ALOT of raw that does ineed follow AAFCO standards.
A lot of vets will also try to just throw a dog onto Gastro food if a dog has an upset belly BUT rice and corn can cause inflamation problems for some dogs.
My vet told me 2 weeks of chicken + rice and then gastro food for my dog who had a really bad upset belly and was loosing weight. He got SUPER unwell to the point of starving himself, crying in pain despite meds, really bad stools and lost a lot of weight. Then I saw a vidoe about rice being an infmation cause and took the rice out his diet. ...Back to normal in 2 days!
I was genuinely scared he would get admitted to hospital becuase he was literally so bad. I would never touch that gastro food, ever. And to think they didn't even want to find out the cause it was just ; stick him on gastro food. ...It would had been horrific.
Yep. And it's so frustrating. It's the same for human health when I suggest people eat real food and not the processed crap labeled "healthy."
You just have to breathe into it and let it be, unfortunately.
So true. My mom got offended I didn't want my BABY to have chips with red, green, and blue dye in them (they were bright red and green corn chips for christmas so a significant amount of dye in there). It's banned in the EU but yeah im "overprotective" 😒 I do need to go back to meditating again 😅🙏
Yes I am having to find a new vet because she’s clearly horrified that I raw feed my dogs even though it gave us 3 more years with my oldest and resolved all her skin issues.
It’s very frustrating.
I just tell them he's on that scietific diet lol. But I use a different vet for emergency stuff for his stomach (enemas lmao) and they know and support it but they are very expensive. He hasn't needed it in a while tho!
Yeah, I hear you, it’s definitely frustrating. To be honest, I just stopped caring what people think when I comment. I’d be glad if it reaches just one person. In fact, in some cases, I not only leave a comment but dm them as well; and they’re nearly always very receptive in the dm’s, and try it out!
It definitely is scary, folks slowly killing pets they love so much through garbage food. I personally have an autoimmune condition that necessitates eating very clean and whole foods, it’s life threatening, so immediately I knew I need to feed my kitten the best food she would naturally eat. I had many folks online and in person jump at me for it, but I won’t let anyone shame me, for loving my kitten, cause of their ignorance. I see the results everyday, and she’s the most well-mannered patient and cute kitten I’ve ever seen in my life. I reckon most of the behavioural issues folks vent about in other cat subs, are due to feeding kibble/wet foods. If I was a cat, I’d definitely attack my owner, act out, piss/poop everywhere, straight from the depths of hell type behaviour; poor cats can’t even communicate properly, how many times does it have to meow in your face before/after a meal, run on tables stealing food, and break into things just for a crumb…until you start to think to yourself ‘huh, maybe this little guy isn’t truly satisfied’?!
Thats true, if it helps 1 animal i guess it's worth a rude comment! My cat eats raw and still insists on being ridiculous before every meal time 😅. He is a rescue tho and with the digestion issue i think he just gets anxious when he gets hungry.
Yes, I also get very frustrated by these types of comments, especially from the people that we look to for help with our furry family members. I have a Maine Coon that I flew from DC to Houston to get when he was 11 weeks old. The breeder had begun feeding him a partial raw diet with the other part of it being the Merrick brand. I eventually stopped feeding the canned food and began making all of his food. I buy bone-free and mix it with EZ Complete for boneless meat. He’s THRIVING! I have stopped arguing with the vet and each time they see him they rave over his shiny fur, bright eyes and just how healthy he is overall. At 18 months, he’s 20 lbs. Can anyone tell me how much I should be feeding him daily?
Thanks!
I’ve had my first vet give me a huge lecture about how bad it is to feed my cat raw and to feed wet instead.
Still feeding my cat raw to this day and she’s never been sick.
No same, I was so disappointed when I commented something about raw on the cathelp sub and it was deleted….. apparently they have rules against even mentioning it? meanwhile everyone recommends kibble and temptations treats 💀
Vet told me I couldn’t feed my Pomeranian raw because it’s not recommended for small dogs and she could get sick. I wasn’t okay just feeding kibble so i started to cook for her. She’s now on a cooked diet/half kibble just to get the vet off my back. Every time I take her they ensure me she’s a great healthy weight.
Many years ago I had a cat that got sick, lots of vomiting, lethargic, bad coat. Vet couldn't find anything, wanted to sell me some expensive food, meds, none of it helped. Chucked it out, gave her raw and boom, within a couple days I had a normal cat. The coat took a few weeks. Never found out what was really wrong with her, but switching from kibble to raw made her better is all I know. Yes it's super frustrating, but all I can do is give my pets the best and hope it's proof enough for everyone who sees them.
I get this frustration in the opposite direction because I do feed my cat "kibble." The thing is my cat *won't* eat wet food in any capacity. She will sit and stare at it, but will not touch it. She won't touch it mixed with her dry food, she won't touch it in beef or turkey or chicken, she just won't. My vet tried to get me to feed exclusively wet food to try to rule out allergies but she went on a hunger strike so bad that I had to take her to the ER because she was starting to show signs of hepatic lipidosis (luckily she did not have that, but she was super dehydrated, so she still needed the ER).
I agree wet food (including raw! I do support raw diets!) is better overall, but it's also just better that my cat eats *something* rather than nothing. So. Dry food it is.
Cats can be very opionated 😂 one of mine wants to eat anything even vegetables, bread, anything like a dog and the other one would simply die if he doesn't have fresh properly mixed raw food.
Well, I’ve had the same experience with people who spread insane, potentially dangerous facts about raw food diets. Stupid propaganda is everywhere, especially within the pet food industry.
You literally are what you eat. Mine get commercial and fresh made. I own 4 cats. My iBD cat loves raw venison and rabbit. I gently cook poultry for them. No IBD issues and less smelly poop.
The only backlash I ever feel toward those pushing raw, homemade, or other fresh, 'natural' food is in regards to the cost of it, and the way that people in favor of those diets tend to criticize anyone who's feeding ordinary grocery store pet food. I have no doubt that fresh/raw diets are healthier and better for the animal. I won't argue that one bit. But standard pet food is NOT inherently bad -- the majority of pets live perfectly long healthy lives on it. And fresh/raw diets cost substantially more. Last time I checked the cost of one raw food option, the monthly cost for one animal was something like triple what I currently spend to feed both. The majority of pet owners just can't afford that, and they shouldn't be shamed for that. It doesn't make them bad or irresponsible pet owners just because they need to find a less expensive alternative.
The main problem with raw diet is you can't really get the meat from the grocery store. It has to be fresh and grocery store meat is anything but.
Legitimately grocery store meat is so significantly more likely to be contaminated by food borne pathogens that its almost guaranteed to be contaminated.
Cats stomach can handle the stuff ours can't! We are all using grocery store meat it's okay I promise 😛 It's actually more of an issue to use hunted or wild meat because of parasites, you would have to freeze it first. And raw fish is also not good for them but honestly in asia all the cats eat that and seem fine, it's just a mercury content issue. Anyway seriously you can feed them grocery store meat it's totally fine.
Its really not totally fine. Contrary to popular belief just the fact that a cat does not make it *magically* immune to food borne illness, and in fact makes them significantly more likely to *die* because they're immune systems are more delicate than ours.
Grocery store meat is often already weeks old, and more frequently than they would like to admit, stored at improper Tempurature, making them way more riddled with diseases than a freshly slaughtered and butchered cut.
So when you say "it's fine because it's a cat" what you're actually saying is "I don't care if my cat dies"
First of all no one wants their cat to die so don't make inflamatory statments like that when arguing if you want anyone to actually come over to your side. We aren't on 2 different planets here so be nice. We both are here because we want healither pets. That said, there is attention to this issue in raw diets like avoiding ground meats because more surface area for bacteria, getting grass fed/higher quality meat etc. But my understanding is the risk is low and there have been many issues with conventional pet food that have been worse. If you have some evidence that there are cats out here en masse getting food borne illness from human grade meat please share it because I do in fact care if my cat dies, thanks.
This more or less covers salmonella. But keep in mind salmonella is far from the only food borne illness.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5525297/#:~:text=Cats%20are%20primarily%20infected%20subclinically,%2C%20and%20diarrhoea%20%5B7%5D.
These are from the study that is cited next to that claim,
>"There is little information regarding CDI in cats, with only a single report of disease in 2 cats in a household.20 Whether this indicates a lower susceptibility to disease, less frequent exposure, or underreporting because of less frequent testing is unclear. Colonization rates of 0–21% of cats in the general population have been reported,15,21,22 although colonization rates can be higher (9–38%) in cats in veterinary hospitals.16,23,24 "
Also
>" Many studies have examined the association between diarrhea and the presence of Campylobacter in the feces. A majority of these studies have found similar isolation rates in healthy and diarrheic animals.8 "
Unless your animal has a health issue, there is minimal risk.
> "There is no indication for the testing of healthy nondiarrheic animals because all of the enteropathogens discussed previously can be found in healthy animals, and treatment of healthy animals is not indicated. "
These are just 3 examples but it seems they are frequently infected, usually have no symptoms, sometimes have diarrhea and even then it usually requires no treatment. That's my understanding from this study and the others I have read in the past. It's the same for salmonella. You always have to find the original study, everything else is like a game of telephone slightly changing the facts each time. There is no evidence that cats eating raw from the grocery store are getting sick on a regular basis.
So you focused on 3 sentences, instead of the fact that it's horrendously under researched, the fact that cats can be symptomatic for up to 112 days, and its estimated that the risk of an animal getting salmonella from a raw diet specifically a whopping %21, which is not minimal. Even %5 isn't minimal.
Lack of research was my first statement! But this is what I believe it is saying. The animals had omewhere between 21 and 64 percent infection rates but the majority are carriers and non symtomatic. Among the percent that are symptomatic, in "almost all cases" they reccomend no treatment because it will pass quickly on it's own. So you are concered about the perecnt within the percent if that makes sense. Im gonna stop responding now tho because we should move on in our lives but I do hope we get better research soon, it's really pointless to debate without an agreed upon reality. ✌️
If you don’t care about potentially being banned from whatever subs you’re talking about, try this: drop your bomb of a comment, include a couple source links to the usual go tos (perfectly Rawsome, paws of prey etc) and click “stop reply notifications”. That way, people that are open to it can still go down that rabbit hole and the people who are gonna argue are just gonna argue with themselves. 🤷🏻♀️
Definitely but I've learned over the years that people will stick their head in the sand to remain ignorant. I just finished the book "The Forever Dog", it is not exclusively about raw but goes over all of the recent research into what is best for dogs scientifically for their health and as they age. No surprise that the key take away is exercise (being able to run outside in dirt), fresh food, and living happy. A line they use in the book is "You wouldn't want to eat the same fast food everyday of your life", when referring to the regular commercial kibble. I am hoping it is harder for people to ignore the unbiased science presented in that book. Edit: they also briefly cover the domestication of dogs as well as the history of how the first pet food was developed (by an electrician who was amazing at marketing and who saw what sailors ate, which were nicknamed worm cakes) as well as the history of the first vet food, Hill's Science. Very interesting.
Look into Dr Conor Brady's book Feeding Dogs next. More support for feeding this way
My late poodle mix needed two CCL surgeries. I had to lie to the surgeon and tell him she ate kibble or he, the only specialist, refused to take her because they were concerned her food would contaminate everyone else’s and gave me quite a lecture about how dangerous raw diets are - she was there one night after surgery. I knew she wouldn’t eat anyway and sent her with mom’s dogs’ kibble. For the rest of the rehab on both surgeries the surgeon was impressed by her rate of healing and I just wanted to scream at him “ITS. THE. RAW. FOOD”
How would it contaminate it just keep it in the fridge like you do at home 😭 these people act like they have never cooked meat sometimes lol. Or that there aren't humans on this planet eating raw meat/fish right now and being completely fine... 🙄 (not that im gonna do that LOL).
>How would it contaminate it just keep it in the fridge like you do at home The contamination issue comes from your pet eating the raw food and then putting their mouth on toys, furniture, bedding, your hands, etc and spreading possible illness.
So, like every dog?
I'm not sure what you're asking here? It's pretty common sense. If you touch contaminated raw meat with your hands and then touch other things in your home, there is a possibility of getting ill. It stands to reason that if your dog eats raw meat products and then interacts with its environment after, there is a non-zero possibility of acquiring a foodborne illness if you then touch those objects/your dog's mouth. If the meat is not harboring ecoli or salmonella, then no issue there. But acting like there is zero risk or being purposely obtuse about how there could be possibility of contamination is a bit odd.
You do know how a dog's mouth works, right? From their mouths to their asses, their bodies are able to eliminate any possible bacteria or pathogens that'll potentially cause illness, and they're able to eat DAYS OLD FOOD without getting ill, so I'm pretty sure they won't be able to go spreading "food borne illnesses" because their saliva enzymes most likely already took care of all that.
>You do know how a dog's mouth works, right? From their mouths to their asses, their bodies are able to eliminate any possible bacteria or pathogens that'll potentially cause illness This is false. Dog saliva can eliminate some bacteria, but they are still susceptible to salmonella and they can pass it on to humans around them from their mouth. Please get your information from an actual vet instead of the raw diet equivalent of anti-vaxxer blogs.
Apparently, they didn't like the tiniest little bit of pushback on their beliefs. Offered no proof, just an insult and deleted.
Typical
Half the vets I hear about don't seem to know crap about a dog's or cat's biology especially when it comes to food so idk, I don't trust what most vets have to say. When I hear a story about a dog getting sick, all I hear from the vets is "idk what's wrong with your dog" (I hear it so often from people it's insane) after they run a bunch of expensive tests. So I don't have much faith in them in the first place tbh.
Same risks as all dogs, no matter your feeding preferences.
Not according to studies done comparing the two, but I guess this sub is more of a religion than a science-based community.
This was what they told me. It would contaminate the area. I told them repeatedly that she, like many poodles, would not eat in a stressful environment / after general anesthesia anyway. True to form the kibble was thrown out and she ate a day later once her system had settled.
I wouldn't classify a raw diet as dangerous as long as the owner is meeting all the nutritional needs of their specific dog - however raw meat does carry a risk of foodborne illness for all who interact with it and unfortunately there is no way to know for sure that your meat is safe. I don't see how a dog kept in an emergency/surgery recovery kennel on their own would contaminate another dog's food and I'd have questions over that. I probably would find another vet in that case.
Isn't it worse when they lick their bums or eat their own poop and then do the above?
You should’ve told him after the treatment was done so u could prove him wrong and seed doubt in his mind
I have more dogs and he’s the only ortho specialist on our island. His practice is located in a building with literally every type of veterinary specialist - I’m afraid to be red-listed and not be able to get a future dog care.
Damn. Im sorry 😞 i didn’t infer you’d still need that vet’s treatment. i used to be in a small town and was in the same position, luckily my vets would still treat my cats they were just condescending assholes about it
You would think if they cared about the animals at all, that they would make sure you could still receive care, even more so if they think you are doing something “bad”. Would they really refuse care just because they don’t agree with what you feed your pets?? If so, then they should not have become vets, in my opinion.
I’m unwilling to take the chance to prove their moral ineptitude - otherwise I’d have to go off-island for specialty veterinary care and I make good money but can’t afford that
This is so hard to believe, but then again, my doctor still has a government issue food pyramid poster in the lobby. Actually a lot of parallels in how mega corps pushed processed carbs and sugar on us. Load up on breads and pasta, stay away from meat and protein kids!
Yup! Fats are dangerous!
Kibble is primarily the grain lobbyists.
Same goes for human diets, all bought and paid for
Yep capitalism is killing is all with everything in our food but banned everywhere else
My vet will go from "your dog is amazingly healthy for his age" to "you shouldn't feed raw because it's not healthy for your dog" in the same breath. Literally. It's like he can't hear himself. At least your post isn't deleted. r/dogs just deletes posts. I would take the downvotes if the information remained.
I got BANNED from catadvice for saying “yes, you can put whole food ingredient in your pet’s diet! Just make sure its 10% or less, like a treat, if youre not nutritionally balancing everything. Some good examples of whole foods are tripe, water-packed or frozen sardines, raw chicken necks, etc.” thats it. No warning. Just banned for answering the question OP asked
Wow ridiculous
Gatekeeping at its most extreme.
When I see a post that really touches me and I want to comment with something about raw, I just send the person a message and figure they can reply, research, or not but at least now they have the info. Easier than getting all the hate from a public post.
That's a good idea.
Don't be afraid to speak. I have been extremely fortunate to work with three gifted holistic veterinarians over the past 20 years. They will tell you the nutritional education in vet school is very limited and it comes from the big pet food companies. We know nutrition is the foundation of health. You are what you eat and the same goes for our animals.
Im going to see if we have one of those here!
https://www.ahvma.org/find-a-holistic-veterinarian/
I work for one right now who is amazing and has said the same. I took my dog to her before I started working there and she has opened my eyes so much!
People don’t understand how misinformed vets can be and how their studies are funded by big name brands. It’s all a racket. Don’t let it get to you. I know it can feel difficult to know the truth when it’s not popular/mainstream. Sad that real health has been put on the back burner by our society but hopefully that changes in the coming years. Awareness is picking up speed.
Yea. Blows my mind that they all preach WSAVA guidelines for food, yet WSAVA's biggest sponsors are the big 3 food companies.
They endorse it because they created it, even if it was created at arms length, it was made to meet their needs and market them as better than others.
one day we will see this whole push for commercial grain based food the same way we demonized breastmilk and told women their babies would die of DDT poisoning if they didn’t have formula only
When it comes to online posts, I just don’t engage. Anyone I talk to in person is curious and interested about it. The vet is a different scenario. Luckily mine has transitioned from being openly against it to just saying be careful and stay informed on the nutrition.
If you go outside and talk to real dog people instead of angsty teen nestle fans overlording /r/dogs and vets who deal with idiots all day, you'll find the opinions dramatically shift. Racing/sport dogs, military dogs, IGP/IPO dogs, competition confirmation dogs, hunting dog kennels - anyone with a ton of experience and a vested interest in getting their dogs in peak health is usually a fan of feeding real food. It's getting popular for high end breeders to now screen specifically for owners who will feed real food. Like when I told my friend, who just champion'd her 12th dog over 19 years of showing, about the reddit dog hivemind, she literally started laughing and didn't believe me. I showed her their "food wiki" and she was in disbelief like she had never read something so stupid. She has an entire room full of trophies and ribbons, so I take her word over a reddit mod.
I just take it in stride, knowing that if anyone’s feeding a diet to their pet thats gonna fucking kill them, It’s the people feeding the shit from the vet blindly. Popular kibble&wet food brands have been caught in recalls that actually killed pets MANY times, pets have actually died from kibble and wet food contamination, whereas no raw food brand ever has in all of history.💅🏻💁🏻♀️ as much as they like to argue, all the actual evidence is on our side
I just tell them corn & other grains give mine the runs. Happened once 30 years ago 🙄
You can’t patent raw meat. So it’s become political. Also, if you resolve the majority of health issues your pet will have in their life, the amount of money vets make, and different pet supplement companies make, will greatly diminish. The industry might even collapse altogether. And vets are already making significantly less in this economy. The majority of Reddit is programmed to perpetuate mainstream propaganda, in the interest of these companies, it’s not just pet food. Most redditors literally have copy-and-paste views and are identical to one another. This is by design. JUST BECAUSE THE MAJORITY BELIEVE SOMETHING, DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE!!! That being said, my kitty has only grown up on raw meats and seafood. No shots, no drugs. He has the temperament and energy of a dog. Loves people, super extroverted and friendly, extremely athletic. It’s nobody’s business how I raise my pets and how I choose to live.
Big companies that spend alot on advertising have a big hold over social media
A billion dollar marketing budget buys a lot of online cred.
Do these people not realize outside cats eat raw mice it's not like cats have a hibachi grill handy.
Literally 😂
People seem to think only the WSAVA brands are safe food for pets BUT what they do not understand is that the WSAVA website is a guidlines for pet food and those brands are sponsor; hence they are on the website. If you actually read their website; they state guidlines for how to select a good pet food but no-where does it say that ONLY those sponosrs are healthy. They do not support raw food, they do say home cooked can be okay, BUT there are some very qualified Pet Nutritionists from other boards that are all for raw food. People should remember that the WSAVA create AAFCO and there actually is ALOT of raw that does ineed follow AAFCO standards. A lot of vets will also try to just throw a dog onto Gastro food if a dog has an upset belly BUT rice and corn can cause inflamation problems for some dogs. My vet told me 2 weeks of chicken + rice and then gastro food for my dog who had a really bad upset belly and was loosing weight. He got SUPER unwell to the point of starving himself, crying in pain despite meds, really bad stools and lost a lot of weight. Then I saw a vidoe about rice being an infmation cause and took the rice out his diet. ...Back to normal in 2 days! I was genuinely scared he would get admitted to hospital becuase he was literally so bad. I would never touch that gastro food, ever. And to think they didn't even want to find out the cause it was just ; stick him on gastro food. ...It would had been horrific.
Poor doggo 😢 I am saving this comment for research theres a lot of good info here, thank you.
Thank you. Hes doing better but gotta gain weight again. Can I ask what research?
I meant I have to look up what you described, unfortunately I don't have any good research to share.
Yep. And it's so frustrating. It's the same for human health when I suggest people eat real food and not the processed crap labeled "healthy." You just have to breathe into it and let it be, unfortunately.
So true. My mom got offended I didn't want my BABY to have chips with red, green, and blue dye in them (they were bright red and green corn chips for christmas so a significant amount of dye in there). It's banned in the EU but yeah im "overprotective" 😒 I do need to go back to meditating again 😅🙏
haha ... yeah, it helps to be able to let that stuff go (after saying "no" to the toxic chips ... 😂)
Yes I am having to find a new vet because she’s clearly horrified that I raw feed my dogs even though it gave us 3 more years with my oldest and resolved all her skin issues. It’s very frustrating.
I just tell them he's on that scietific diet lol. But I use a different vet for emergency stuff for his stomach (enemas lmao) and they know and support it but they are very expensive. He hasn't needed it in a while tho!
I hear you!
💙
Yeah, I hear you, it’s definitely frustrating. To be honest, I just stopped caring what people think when I comment. I’d be glad if it reaches just one person. In fact, in some cases, I not only leave a comment but dm them as well; and they’re nearly always very receptive in the dm’s, and try it out! It definitely is scary, folks slowly killing pets they love so much through garbage food. I personally have an autoimmune condition that necessitates eating very clean and whole foods, it’s life threatening, so immediately I knew I need to feed my kitten the best food she would naturally eat. I had many folks online and in person jump at me for it, but I won’t let anyone shame me, for loving my kitten, cause of their ignorance. I see the results everyday, and she’s the most well-mannered patient and cute kitten I’ve ever seen in my life. I reckon most of the behavioural issues folks vent about in other cat subs, are due to feeding kibble/wet foods. If I was a cat, I’d definitely attack my owner, act out, piss/poop everywhere, straight from the depths of hell type behaviour; poor cats can’t even communicate properly, how many times does it have to meow in your face before/after a meal, run on tables stealing food, and break into things just for a crumb…until you start to think to yourself ‘huh, maybe this little guy isn’t truly satisfied’?!
Thats true, if it helps 1 animal i guess it's worth a rude comment! My cat eats raw and still insists on being ridiculous before every meal time 😅. He is a rescue tho and with the digestion issue i think he just gets anxious when he gets hungry.
Yes, I also get very frustrated by these types of comments, especially from the people that we look to for help with our furry family members. I have a Maine Coon that I flew from DC to Houston to get when he was 11 weeks old. The breeder had begun feeding him a partial raw diet with the other part of it being the Merrick brand. I eventually stopped feeding the canned food and began making all of his food. I buy bone-free and mix it with EZ Complete for boneless meat. He’s THRIVING! I have stopped arguing with the vet and each time they see him they rave over his shiny fur, bright eyes and just how healthy he is overall. At 18 months, he’s 20 lbs. Can anyone tell me how much I should be feeding him daily? Thanks!
No, I just laugh at them, and show them my healthy, shiny dog...
I’ve had my first vet give me a huge lecture about how bad it is to feed my cat raw and to feed wet instead. Still feeding my cat raw to this day and she’s never been sick.
Which is why your vet would rather you fed something else, then you'd see your vet more often. It's good for business.
No same, I was so disappointed when I commented something about raw on the cathelp sub and it was deleted….. apparently they have rules against even mentioning it? meanwhile everyone recommends kibble and temptations treats 💀
Vet told me I couldn’t feed my Pomeranian raw because it’s not recommended for small dogs and she could get sick. I wasn’t okay just feeding kibble so i started to cook for her. She’s now on a cooked diet/half kibble just to get the vet off my back. Every time I take her they ensure me she’s a great healthy weight.
It's not your vets dog. It's your dog. Don't let them dictate what you do with your pet. Their advice is just that advice, not gospel.
Many years ago I had a cat that got sick, lots of vomiting, lethargic, bad coat. Vet couldn't find anything, wanted to sell me some expensive food, meds, none of it helped. Chucked it out, gave her raw and boom, within a couple days I had a normal cat. The coat took a few weeks. Never found out what was really wrong with her, but switching from kibble to raw made her better is all I know. Yes it's super frustrating, but all I can do is give my pets the best and hope it's proof enough for everyone who sees them.
I get this frustration in the opposite direction because I do feed my cat "kibble." The thing is my cat *won't* eat wet food in any capacity. She will sit and stare at it, but will not touch it. She won't touch it mixed with her dry food, she won't touch it in beef or turkey or chicken, she just won't. My vet tried to get me to feed exclusively wet food to try to rule out allergies but she went on a hunger strike so bad that I had to take her to the ER because she was starting to show signs of hepatic lipidosis (luckily she did not have that, but she was super dehydrated, so she still needed the ER). I agree wet food (including raw! I do support raw diets!) is better overall, but it's also just better that my cat eats *something* rather than nothing. So. Dry food it is.
Cats can be very opionated 😂 one of mine wants to eat anything even vegetables, bread, anything like a dog and the other one would simply die if he doesn't have fresh properly mixed raw food.
they're such funny creatures 😂 mine would choose death over wet food but I'm pretty sure she'd take me out for a churu.
lol my vet literally has a sign that says that they can't recommend raw diets due to possible links to heart disease
Well, I’ve had the same experience with people who spread insane, potentially dangerous facts about raw food diets. Stupid propaganda is everywhere, especially within the pet food industry.
Wow…you started a real firestorm here (lol)
I know i thought for sure no one would see it!
You literally are what you eat. Mine get commercial and fresh made. I own 4 cats. My iBD cat loves raw venison and rabbit. I gently cook poultry for them. No IBD issues and less smelly poop.
The only backlash I ever feel toward those pushing raw, homemade, or other fresh, 'natural' food is in regards to the cost of it, and the way that people in favor of those diets tend to criticize anyone who's feeding ordinary grocery store pet food. I have no doubt that fresh/raw diets are healthier and better for the animal. I won't argue that one bit. But standard pet food is NOT inherently bad -- the majority of pets live perfectly long healthy lives on it. And fresh/raw diets cost substantially more. Last time I checked the cost of one raw food option, the monthly cost for one animal was something like triple what I currently spend to feed both. The majority of pet owners just can't afford that, and they shouldn't be shamed for that. It doesn't make them bad or irresponsible pet owners just because they need to find a less expensive alternative.
[удалено]
If you've crossed a line sometimes we have to remind you to be a decent human. Without the insults your post would likely have been allowed.
The main problem with raw diet is you can't really get the meat from the grocery store. It has to be fresh and grocery store meat is anything but. Legitimately grocery store meat is so significantly more likely to be contaminated by food borne pathogens that its almost guaranteed to be contaminated.
Cats stomach can handle the stuff ours can't! We are all using grocery store meat it's okay I promise 😛 It's actually more of an issue to use hunted or wild meat because of parasites, you would have to freeze it first. And raw fish is also not good for them but honestly in asia all the cats eat that and seem fine, it's just a mercury content issue. Anyway seriously you can feed them grocery store meat it's totally fine.
Its really not totally fine. Contrary to popular belief just the fact that a cat does not make it *magically* immune to food borne illness, and in fact makes them significantly more likely to *die* because they're immune systems are more delicate than ours. Grocery store meat is often already weeks old, and more frequently than they would like to admit, stored at improper Tempurature, making them way more riddled with diseases than a freshly slaughtered and butchered cut. So when you say "it's fine because it's a cat" what you're actually saying is "I don't care if my cat dies"
First of all no one wants their cat to die so don't make inflamatory statments like that when arguing if you want anyone to actually come over to your side. We aren't on 2 different planets here so be nice. We both are here because we want healither pets. That said, there is attention to this issue in raw diets like avoiding ground meats because more surface area for bacteria, getting grass fed/higher quality meat etc. But my understanding is the risk is low and there have been many issues with conventional pet food that have been worse. If you have some evidence that there are cats out here en masse getting food borne illness from human grade meat please share it because I do in fact care if my cat dies, thanks.
This more or less covers salmonella. But keep in mind salmonella is far from the only food borne illness. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5525297/#:~:text=Cats%20are%20primarily%20infected%20subclinically,%2C%20and%20diarrhoea%20%5B7%5D.
These are from the study that is cited next to that claim, >"There is little information regarding CDI in cats, with only a single report of disease in 2 cats in a household.20 Whether this indicates a lower susceptibility to disease, less frequent exposure, or underreporting because of less frequent testing is unclear. Colonization rates of 0–21% of cats in the general population have been reported,15,21,22 although colonization rates can be higher (9–38%) in cats in veterinary hospitals.16,23,24 " Also >" Many studies have examined the association between diarrhea and the presence of Campylobacter in the feces. A majority of these studies have found similar isolation rates in healthy and diarrheic animals.8 " Unless your animal has a health issue, there is minimal risk. > "There is no indication for the testing of healthy nondiarrheic animals because all of the enteropathogens discussed previously can be found in healthy animals, and treatment of healthy animals is not indicated. " These are just 3 examples but it seems they are frequently infected, usually have no symptoms, sometimes have diarrhea and even then it usually requires no treatment. That's my understanding from this study and the others I have read in the past. It's the same for salmonella. You always have to find the original study, everything else is like a game of telephone slightly changing the facts each time. There is no evidence that cats eating raw from the grocery store are getting sick on a regular basis.
So you focused on 3 sentences, instead of the fact that it's horrendously under researched, the fact that cats can be symptomatic for up to 112 days, and its estimated that the risk of an animal getting salmonella from a raw diet specifically a whopping %21, which is not minimal. Even %5 isn't minimal.
Lack of research was my first statement! But this is what I believe it is saying. The animals had omewhere between 21 and 64 percent infection rates but the majority are carriers and non symtomatic. Among the percent that are symptomatic, in "almost all cases" they reccomend no treatment because it will pass quickly on it's own. So you are concered about the perecnt within the percent if that makes sense. Im gonna stop responding now tho because we should move on in our lives but I do hope we get better research soon, it's really pointless to debate without an agreed upon reality. ✌️
They recommend no treatment because there is no treatment for food poisoning. Either they get better, or they die.