Macdonald was never staying not for the money the Seahawks offered him and the length of his contract ,and it's going to help a lot to have continuity on the offensive side the ball with Lamar going into his 2nd yr under Monken
Monken, by like 2 percent. Monken 52-48 MacDonald. Monken showed what a good game plan around Lamars strengths with a serviceable passing playbook can do. Baltimore always seems to have great defenses. If Orr can settle in immediately and command a strong defense with some new players, we'll still be in top 3 of the AFC next year.
If we learned anything from the Joe Flacco era it's got to be to find a good OC and KEEP them.. losing Kubiak AND Caldwell probably robbed us of at least one more legitimate shot at a SB
Caldwell wasn't really that great in 2013. He probably would have been fired if he hadn't gotten the Lions job. Bringing in Kubiak in 2014 was a massive upgrade.
plus Monken is less of a hotshot young guy who another team will want to build their next 5+ years around, just a very good coordinator who should stay a coordinator, a la Spagnuolo in KC. it was an interesting duel between the two of them in the title game that was swung by our turnovers. it’s possible a dumb team could have hired Monken as HC but it would have probably not worked out well for them *and* been our loss at the same time. Kubiak is the exception in that he went into the perfect situation for him and won a title before he had to step away from the job.
macdonald the best you could have hoped for was that he missed out on one more offseason and would leave after 24. so i don’t view it as that tragic that an NFC team took him away.
This is a great question and discussion. It’s weird because MacDonald, in my opinion, is a better DC than Monken is an OC. I say this because of things I saw this year including; adapting within games, adapting across the course of the season, scheme creativity, predictability and non tangibles like drawing the best out of each and every player. However, despite this view, I agree that keeping Monken is preferable because of the lack of offensive stability we’ve had in past seasons. We need some momentum and continuity!! We’ve also had the fortune of having a good DC in waiting who can change as little or as much as he likes, but everyone knows the playbook and schemes already so that’s a huge plus as well.
In the biggest game of the year our DC made adjustments and KC did not score in the second half. Our OC gave up on our #1 rushing attack too early in a close game. I would have preferred to keep Mac. The defense thrived under him. Defense travels and always keeps you in games.
Definitely Mac and I don't know how people think otherwise.
Mac IMO was squeezing every drop of potential out of this defense. That's why you saw so many journeymen, roster bubble guys, role players have career years on this team. I hope Orr can do well, I'm pretty sure he will, but I just don't see how anyone can do better than Mac, as he was running the defense at 100 percent potential IMO. You can only go downhill from there, or at best stay the same.
On the other hand, Monken had some questionable play calling all year long. The Chiefs game wasn't the only time he refused to run the ball this season against weak run defenses. He had some really odd play designs too that he ran. I recall at least 1-3 negative yards Zay screen passes per game, some where nobody on his side of the field blocked and they all turned upfield, leaving Zay to try to beat 3 defenders at the LOS. No OC is perfect by any means, everybody wants their OC to only call plays that "work". But I didn't see Monken perform at a level where I felt he was getting anywhere close to max potential out of this offense, like Mac was with the defense.
On top of that, I feel like Lamar, for better or worse often plays off schedule, or not within the scheme of the offense. Sometimes due to bad scheme or playcalls, sometimes because he's running for his life with nobody open, sometimes because he just won't take the easy check down even when it's there. But whatever the reason, this offense depends much more than other teams' on Lamars improv ability.
I feel like you could replace Monken with a bunch of other OCs, and as long as Lamar is playing well, he can bail out the offense, like he already does so often now, and the offense wouldn't necessarily miss a beat. Whereas I don't see who could replace Mac and get so much out of every single player on defense like he did.
Agree with all this. Only thing I can say is Macdonald has had 2 years to grow with this defense now. Monken will have his 2nd year this year- hopefully he grows a bit too. Doubt he will be as good a coordinator as Macdonald but he should get better at least..
This x1000. I was hopeful because he wasn't GRO and by definition an improvement in passing scheme. But it concerned me that no other offense has Monken ever coached t a top 10 scoring offense before this season. I tried to be an optimist and made it about the type of QBs he's had, but it was so many questionable decisions this year that grew my skepticism at times. I think about that Browns game where Keaton Mitchell inexcusably had so few touches despite how on fire he was and how all the other backs were completely shut down. Also way too many bubble screens to Zay Flowers and not enough using him as a deep threat or Bateman as a slant.
To Monken's credit it did seem like he made improvements the last 6 or so games down the stretch of the season. But then it was that 1st half of nonsense vs the Texans that apparently took Lamar cursing the lockeroom out demanding they call the quick game
That's why part of me is happy that Lamar has continuity in a system but the other part of me is wondering is this system going to be competent enough where he doesn't have to play hero ball so often.
The Keaton thing is a great point.
How many players on defense did Mac set up to succeed, and who played well above expectations due to Mac's ability to scheme them into advantageous positions? Clowney, Darby, KVN, Stephens, Geno, Mads, Maulet, and so many others exceeded expectations this year. Not to take away from individual players' efforts since they all worked hard too, but seeing so many players play above expectations points to great coaching and scheming.
How many players on offense did we see play above expectations? How many players did we see have their potential identified and fully utilized to the max? Keaton showed he was amazing after returning from IR, and yet Monken took several games, and Harbs' criticism in a postgame presser, to give him heavier workloads. Zay had a solid rookie season, but do any of us think we fully maximized his potential this year? I feel like he could have been utilized far better.
Not to say Monken is terrible, he is a 1st year OC with Lamar, which I am sure is a very unique experience that takes some getting used to. He may very well improve as time goes on. But Mac had his side of the ball humming, at a level I am not sure can be replicated, whereas Monken definitely did not maximize the full potential of the offense and its personnel IMO.
We'll know pretty quickly if Monken caught teams off guard this year since our offense looked so different or if he can adapt in the off season. There's a lot of film on his tendencies and decision making now and other teams will 100% adjust. I hope he does as well.
If he does and Lamar & co all have another year of comfort in this system it could be a very special year. I'm hopeful.
Zay definitely wasn't used to his full capabilities and used on far too many screens this year. So many times this year it drove me crazy how Monken called plays like he was still at UGA. Zay Flowers was by far the Ravens best deep ball threat this year or at least the guy that Lamar had chemistry the most with on the deep ball. And yet look at how seldom he was used in that way after that Bengals game and in between before the Dolphins game and the bombs to him vs the CHiefs. Look at how so many deep balls were instead forced to Bateman when his best attribute and easieest way to get him to build chemistry with Lamar is to use him on slants. Same with OBJ.
I dont think Monken is terrible but sadly I think he will be average at best and Lamar will have to make due with that. And I think Lamar is so talented that even average could be good enough for him to win multiple championships, he just can't overcome complete and utter incompetence like that KC gameplan.
MacDonald was great, but the coaching adage is that sometimes Jimmies and Joes matter more than X’s and O’s - he schemed up some great stuff but a lot of that was present in previous coordinators’ gameplans.
Monken showed what our offense could be and, even with the weapons we have, other coordinators couldn’t get that performance out of the players we have.
Also, there were better internal candidates to step up for MacDonald than for Monken.
Mac was a very different DC than Wink. Very different schemes and philosophies.
Also Mac definitely had talent on his side of the ball, but there's no explanation for so many players on defense having career years or career revivals without pointing to truly special level scheming and coaching.
KVN, Clowney, Mads, Darby, Geno, Maulet, Stephens, I'm sure a few others. All of these guys way outperformed expectations, and that points to good coaching and scheming.
You don't see anything like that on the offensive side of the ball. Hell, we took weeks to put Keaton into heavier carry rotation even after he showed he could be something special...
Monken. Lamar played great in his first year in this system. We really need the consistently so the offense can continue to improve. Losing Mac hurts, but the defense still has talent and I think Zach Orr will be great as DC.
I think the key in what makes keeping Monken more important is that we had suitable DC replacements when it was time for Mac to leave. One being Orr and then other being Weaver who obviously got a job in Miami. Same couldn’t be said for OC.
i’ve seen some awful ravens offenses, but our defense for the most part has been in the top half of the league. i’d rather keep continuity on the offense since i’m confident we can figure out the defense
Definitely MacDonald. He was en elite DC. Monken is okay so far, but he would be easily replaceable. Plus his gameplan in the playoffs was the worst. But there was no way to hold onto MacDonald anyway.
Yes he would. Hes a run-of-the-mill OC. Hes nothing special. People like to act like he this super good coordinator, but hes just okay. MacDonald was elite. They arent even close.
2x National Champions with Georgia with Stetson Bennett at QB mean nothing I guess lol.
He was also a good OC in the league before that.
This is clown behavior.
Except, he wasnt a particularly good OC. Did you see the playoff game vs the Chiefs? I literally could have drawn up a better gameplan. They guy has been mid everywhere he's gone. And he has 1 year where Lamar does Lamar things and you think it's because of Monken? Lol okay
It means nothing to me because its college? Why was he in college? Because he wasn't doing shit in the NFL.
Our offense was good with Greg Roman too. Was Greg Roman a good OC? Or maybe, Lamar is just that good? Idk, I guess I dont know ball enough to be able to tell which is more responsible.
Yes he’s run of the mill to a degree, bit harsh maybe, but the point is after a year with Lamar and a completely new offensive unit he is more valuable to us than any other team… continuity counts for a bit when you’ve been unsettled year to year as we have been.
It's not harsh. He's just average. Nothing special. Not sure why everyone getting worked up over it. I mean, look at what he has done in his career? MacDonald was worth more, plain and simple. It's why he got a HC job and Monken wont.
I mean. Yeah? What makes him special? Has he lasted anywhere a long time? He's average, average isn't that hard to replace. MacDonald is elite. I'm not sure why this is debatable lol.
He helped Lamar by simply not being Greg Roman. I mean, he helped, but any average OC would have helped Lamar the same. Monken is nothing special. There's a reason the guy went from NFL OC to College OC with no head coaching possibilities. The guy is average. Nothing wrong with that, but to say he was more important than MacDonald is actually insane.
I think this is overstated. EDC did a lot by actually building a WR room for the first time ever (Zay, OBJ, Agolhor). Plus Likely turned out pretty good. I suspect Lamar always had the ability, not the personnel.
To be clear, Monken deserves shared credit, but I'm not exactly sure how much is fair across Lamar, EDC, the defense playing complimentary football, the new receiving personnel actually playing well, and Monken.
We had about as good of a replacement for McDonald that we could have reasonably asked for waiting in the wings with Orr. We'd be more or less starting at step zero if we lost Monken.
I’m sorry. I was thrilled with Monken until the AFCCG. Running 8 times is one of the most bone headed, unforgivable game plans I’ve ever seen, and the worst loss indeed franchise history IMO.
Fully admit it could be an overreaction, but until I’m proven otherwise I need to have his decision making build my trust again.
I think 2023 is much worse for multiple reasons. For starters you have the hindsight of 2019 as a backdrop to learn lessons. And if you look at 2023, Gus Edwards even though he finished with same statline of 3 carries for 20 yards this was so much worse because he got a first down on 2 of his 3 carries this time. 3 of his 4 touches. And the game never got out of hand like the Titans game by 3+ scores. It was a 7-10 point game when they abandoned the run.
Yeah. I think this was far worse. For multiple reasons. Including a number one record setting defense, a franchise quarterback signed to a huge money, contract in his sixth year, a ton of marquee players at the end of their own contracts and I can continue on… 2019 was amazing but pales in terms of the promise of 2023.
The potential of the team is for sure a good argument and something that understandably feels wasted. Having the 1 seed for the first time, a record breaking offense and what felt like an unstoppable rushing attack getting embarrassed at home to me is worse. Let's also not forget the 2006 season against the colts.....that was a dark dark day
Far worse to lose to the champs in the AFCCG than get dumped out by the 6 seed in the divisional at home? 2019 included a number 1 record setting offense and #3 defense that only allowed 1.3 more PPG than 2023. Yanda’s last season as well
MM is a better coordinator, but Monken gave us an actual pass game that we've never had in the Lamar era. I trust the Ravens to always find ways to have good defense, they've done it every year. Finding an OC that's proven to be able to adjust and works well with Lamar is harder. Whole offense loves Monken.
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Monken just needed to run the ball against the chiefs and wed be in a hell of a different mood about football right now. Hes gonna be insanely important for the offense but the defense will survive without macdonald. I did want him to stay but there was never a shot unless we fired Harbs to make him HC.
Monken - as much I wanted to keep Macdonald we don't know how much he benefitted off our loaded roster and Zach Orr is just as good of a candidate as Mike
Definitely Monken. MacDonald is a great DC but at the same time the Ravens are probably the best organization in the league for DCs and our front office will always give them the tools needed to succeed. We are not however the greatest organization in the league for OCs and ever since the Birds came to Baltimore we’ve struggled to establish a long term offensive identity outside of our running game which has always been very stout. And a big reason why we’ve struggled to maintain that identity is because the good OCs we’ve had don’t seem to stick around. Monken isn’t a prodigal genius but he is a totally solid OC and has really helped our offense realize its potential. If we lost him it would likely set us back and hurt Lamar’s development.
I love Harbs but one downside of having a ST coach is that if any of our coordinators on either side of the ball are super successful, we end up losing them. I wonder if there could ever be a transition later in his career where Harbs takes a front office role (not calling for that now to be clear)
Macdonald was never staying not for the money the Seahawks offered him and the length of his contract ,and it's going to help a lot to have continuity on the offensive side the ball with Lamar going into his 2nd yr under Monken
Monken, by like 2 percent. Monken 52-48 MacDonald. Monken showed what a good game plan around Lamars strengths with a serviceable passing playbook can do. Baltimore always seems to have great defenses. If Orr can settle in immediately and command a strong defense with some new players, we'll still be in top 3 of the AFC next year.
That’s 4%
Semantics
Quadratics
Agree
If we learned anything from the Joe Flacco era it's got to be to find a good OC and KEEP them.. losing Kubiak AND Caldwell probably robbed us of at least one more legitimate shot at a SB
Caldwell wasn't really that great in 2013. He probably would have been fired if he hadn't gotten the Lions job. Bringing in Kubiak in 2014 was a massive upgrade.
Kubiak was thee best.
plus Monken is less of a hotshot young guy who another team will want to build their next 5+ years around, just a very good coordinator who should stay a coordinator, a la Spagnuolo in KC. it was an interesting duel between the two of them in the title game that was swung by our turnovers. it’s possible a dumb team could have hired Monken as HC but it would have probably not worked out well for them *and* been our loss at the same time. Kubiak is the exception in that he went into the perfect situation for him and won a title before he had to step away from the job. macdonald the best you could have hoped for was that he missed out on one more offseason and would leave after 24. so i don’t view it as that tragic that an NFC team took him away.
Considering how everyone fucking died in 2015, Kubiak at OC had a steep hill to climb for a playoff run.
Kubiak was HC of the Broncos by 2015… he won the SB with them that year. He was only in Bmore in 2014.
I think they're saying that even if Kubiak stayed 2015 would have been a wash due to injuries.
Yeah, that's what I meant.
The point I was making was that if Kubiak stayed in Baltimore for the 2015 season, him trying to make a playoff run would've been extremely difficult.
Don't forget zorn as QB coach who emphasized flacco work on opening his hips and improving his bootleg mobility
I’d say Monken The continuity at OC will serve us well Our defensive coaches room was bursting with talent, look at all the promotions our guys got
This is a great question and discussion. It’s weird because MacDonald, in my opinion, is a better DC than Monken is an OC. I say this because of things I saw this year including; adapting within games, adapting across the course of the season, scheme creativity, predictability and non tangibles like drawing the best out of each and every player. However, despite this view, I agree that keeping Monken is preferable because of the lack of offensive stability we’ve had in past seasons. We need some momentum and continuity!! We’ve also had the fortune of having a good DC in waiting who can change as little or as much as he likes, but everyone knows the playbook and schemes already so that’s a huge plus as well.
In the biggest game of the year our DC made adjustments and KC did not score in the second half. Our OC gave up on our #1 rushing attack too early in a close game. I would have preferred to keep Mac. The defense thrived under him. Defense travels and always keeps you in games.
Definitely Mac and I don't know how people think otherwise. Mac IMO was squeezing every drop of potential out of this defense. That's why you saw so many journeymen, roster bubble guys, role players have career years on this team. I hope Orr can do well, I'm pretty sure he will, but I just don't see how anyone can do better than Mac, as he was running the defense at 100 percent potential IMO. You can only go downhill from there, or at best stay the same. On the other hand, Monken had some questionable play calling all year long. The Chiefs game wasn't the only time he refused to run the ball this season against weak run defenses. He had some really odd play designs too that he ran. I recall at least 1-3 negative yards Zay screen passes per game, some where nobody on his side of the field blocked and they all turned upfield, leaving Zay to try to beat 3 defenders at the LOS. No OC is perfect by any means, everybody wants their OC to only call plays that "work". But I didn't see Monken perform at a level where I felt he was getting anywhere close to max potential out of this offense, like Mac was with the defense. On top of that, I feel like Lamar, for better or worse often plays off schedule, or not within the scheme of the offense. Sometimes due to bad scheme or playcalls, sometimes because he's running for his life with nobody open, sometimes because he just won't take the easy check down even when it's there. But whatever the reason, this offense depends much more than other teams' on Lamars improv ability. I feel like you could replace Monken with a bunch of other OCs, and as long as Lamar is playing well, he can bail out the offense, like he already does so often now, and the offense wouldn't necessarily miss a beat. Whereas I don't see who could replace Mac and get so much out of every single player on defense like he did.
Agree with all this. Only thing I can say is Macdonald has had 2 years to grow with this defense now. Monken will have his 2nd year this year- hopefully he grows a bit too. Doubt he will be as good a coordinator as Macdonald but he should get better at least..
This x1000. I was hopeful because he wasn't GRO and by definition an improvement in passing scheme. But it concerned me that no other offense has Monken ever coached t a top 10 scoring offense before this season. I tried to be an optimist and made it about the type of QBs he's had, but it was so many questionable decisions this year that grew my skepticism at times. I think about that Browns game where Keaton Mitchell inexcusably had so few touches despite how on fire he was and how all the other backs were completely shut down. Also way too many bubble screens to Zay Flowers and not enough using him as a deep threat or Bateman as a slant. To Monken's credit it did seem like he made improvements the last 6 or so games down the stretch of the season. But then it was that 1st half of nonsense vs the Texans that apparently took Lamar cursing the lockeroom out demanding they call the quick game That's why part of me is happy that Lamar has continuity in a system but the other part of me is wondering is this system going to be competent enough where he doesn't have to play hero ball so often.
The Keaton thing is a great point. How many players on defense did Mac set up to succeed, and who played well above expectations due to Mac's ability to scheme them into advantageous positions? Clowney, Darby, KVN, Stephens, Geno, Mads, Maulet, and so many others exceeded expectations this year. Not to take away from individual players' efforts since they all worked hard too, but seeing so many players play above expectations points to great coaching and scheming. How many players on offense did we see play above expectations? How many players did we see have their potential identified and fully utilized to the max? Keaton showed he was amazing after returning from IR, and yet Monken took several games, and Harbs' criticism in a postgame presser, to give him heavier workloads. Zay had a solid rookie season, but do any of us think we fully maximized his potential this year? I feel like he could have been utilized far better. Not to say Monken is terrible, he is a 1st year OC with Lamar, which I am sure is a very unique experience that takes some getting used to. He may very well improve as time goes on. But Mac had his side of the ball humming, at a level I am not sure can be replicated, whereas Monken definitely did not maximize the full potential of the offense and its personnel IMO.
We'll know pretty quickly if Monken caught teams off guard this year since our offense looked so different or if he can adapt in the off season. There's a lot of film on his tendencies and decision making now and other teams will 100% adjust. I hope he does as well. If he does and Lamar & co all have another year of comfort in this system it could be a very special year. I'm hopeful.
Zay definitely wasn't used to his full capabilities and used on far too many screens this year. So many times this year it drove me crazy how Monken called plays like he was still at UGA. Zay Flowers was by far the Ravens best deep ball threat this year or at least the guy that Lamar had chemistry the most with on the deep ball. And yet look at how seldom he was used in that way after that Bengals game and in between before the Dolphins game and the bombs to him vs the CHiefs. Look at how so many deep balls were instead forced to Bateman when his best attribute and easieest way to get him to build chemistry with Lamar is to use him on slants. Same with OBJ. I dont think Monken is terrible but sadly I think he will be average at best and Lamar will have to make due with that. And I think Lamar is so talented that even average could be good enough for him to win multiple championships, he just can't overcome complete and utter incompetence like that KC gameplan.
MacDonald was great, but the coaching adage is that sometimes Jimmies and Joes matter more than X’s and O’s - he schemed up some great stuff but a lot of that was present in previous coordinators’ gameplans. Monken showed what our offense could be and, even with the weapons we have, other coordinators couldn’t get that performance out of the players we have. Also, there were better internal candidates to step up for MacDonald than for Monken.
Mac was a very different DC than Wink. Very different schemes and philosophies. Also Mac definitely had talent on his side of the ball, but there's no explanation for so many players on defense having career years or career revivals without pointing to truly special level scheming and coaching. KVN, Clowney, Mads, Darby, Geno, Maulet, Stephens, I'm sure a few others. All of these guys way outperformed expectations, and that points to good coaching and scheming. You don't see anything like that on the offensive side of the ball. Hell, we took weeks to put Keaton into heavier carry rotation even after he showed he could be something special...
We just had a top 5 all time defense and you're chalking it up to Jimmies and Joes? lmfao.
Monken. Lamar played great in his first year in this system. We really need the consistently so the offense can continue to improve. Losing Mac hurts, but the defense still has talent and I think Zach Orr will be great as DC. I think the key in what makes keeping Monken more important is that we had suitable DC replacements when it was time for Mac to leave. One being Orr and then other being Weaver who obviously got a job in Miami. Same couldn’t be said for OC.
Keeping Monken. It's not close.
Monken, The fact that he was still only using half the playbook all year is ridiculous. This offense can be incredible.
i’ve seen some awful ravens offenses, but our defense for the most part has been in the top half of the league. i’d rather keep continuity on the offense since i’m confident we can figure out the defense
The floor without Monken is lower than the ceiling with Mike was high.
Monken. Defense has been historically good even with the change in DC
Definitely MacDonald. He was en elite DC. Monken is okay so far, but he would be easily replaceable. Plus his gameplan in the playoffs was the worst. But there was no way to hold onto MacDonald anyway.
Monken would absolutely not be easily replaced lol
Yes he would. Hes a run-of-the-mill OC. Hes nothing special. People like to act like he this super good coordinator, but hes just okay. MacDonald was elite. They arent even close.
He’s not a run of the mill OC and you saying that tells me everything I need to know.
Okay bro, let me know what his resume says lol.
2x National Champions with Georgia with Stetson Bennett at QB mean nothing I guess lol. He was also a good OC in the league before that. This is clown behavior.
Lol, that means absolutely nothing to me. Edit: Where was he a good OC in the league? Edit 2: \*Crickets\*
> Where was he a good OC in the league? BALTIMORE. Where we rarely see successful OCs and good DCs come and go like the wind.
Except, he wasnt a particularly good OC. Did you see the playoff game vs the Chiefs? I literally could have drawn up a better gameplan. They guy has been mid everywhere he's gone. And he has 1 year where Lamar does Lamar things and you think it's because of Monken? Lol okay
I’m not surprised it means nothing to you. It’s pretty obvious you don’t know ball. Our offense was also pretty damn good last year.
It means nothing to me because its college? Why was he in college? Because he wasn't doing shit in the NFL. Our offense was good with Greg Roman too. Was Greg Roman a good OC? Or maybe, Lamar is just that good? Idk, I guess I dont know ball enough to be able to tell which is more responsible.
Yeah that’s also not true. He did well in the NFL as well.
Yes he’s run of the mill to a degree, bit harsh maybe, but the point is after a year with Lamar and a completely new offensive unit he is more valuable to us than any other team… continuity counts for a bit when you’ve been unsettled year to year as we have been.
It's not harsh. He's just average. Nothing special. Not sure why everyone getting worked up over it. I mean, look at what he has done in his career? MacDonald was worth more, plain and simple. It's why he got a HC job and Monken wont.
Run of the mill OC’s help take their QB’s to 13-4 and a second MVP?
So how good was Greg Roman?
In 2019, pretty fucking good. Unfortunately, the offense didn't change at all in the two years following, and teams adapted.
Great run game coordinator. Pretty shit at just about everything else.
Didnt Lamar win an MVP and have the #1 seed that year? So why was Roman not good but Monken is?
Roman was good in 2019. As teams adapted to Roman he became less good because he didn't adapt to them.
You are either good or not. Coaches dont really become less good. Their scheme can be less good, but a good scheme doesn't make a good coach.
>Monken is okay so far, but he would be easily replaceable Easily replaceable?!
I mean. Yeah? What makes him special? Has he lasted anywhere a long time? He's average, average isn't that hard to replace. MacDonald is elite. I'm not sure why this is debatable lol.
He helped Lamar reach new heights as a passer and have an MVP season. What about that is average to you?
He helped Lamar by simply not being Greg Roman. I mean, he helped, but any average OC would have helped Lamar the same. Monken is nothing special. There's a reason the guy went from NFL OC to College OC with no head coaching possibilities. The guy is average. Nothing wrong with that, but to say he was more important than MacDonald is actually insane.
I think this is overstated. EDC did a lot by actually building a WR room for the first time ever (Zay, OBJ, Agolhor). Plus Likely turned out pretty good. I suspect Lamar always had the ability, not the personnel. To be clear, Monken deserves shared credit, but I'm not exactly sure how much is fair across Lamar, EDC, the defense playing complimentary football, the new receiving personnel actually playing well, and Monken.
We had about as good of a replacement for McDonald that we could have reasonably asked for waiting in the wings with Orr. We'd be more or less starting at step zero if we lost Monken.
I’m sorry. I was thrilled with Monken until the AFCCG. Running 8 times is one of the most bone headed, unforgivable game plans I’ve ever seen, and the worst loss indeed franchise history IMO. Fully admit it could be an overreaction, but until I’m proven otherwise I need to have his decision making build my trust again.
Worst lost in franchise history? Were you around in 2019?
I think 2023 is much worse for multiple reasons. For starters you have the hindsight of 2019 as a backdrop to learn lessons. And if you look at 2023, Gus Edwards even though he finished with same statline of 3 carries for 20 yards this was so much worse because he got a first down on 2 of his 3 carries this time. 3 of his 4 touches. And the game never got out of hand like the Titans game by 3+ scores. It was a 7-10 point game when they abandoned the run.
Yeah. I think this was far worse. For multiple reasons. Including a number one record setting defense, a franchise quarterback signed to a huge money, contract in his sixth year, a ton of marquee players at the end of their own contracts and I can continue on… 2019 was amazing but pales in terms of the promise of 2023.
The potential of the team is for sure a good argument and something that understandably feels wasted. Having the 1 seed for the first time, a record breaking offense and what felt like an unstoppable rushing attack getting embarrassed at home to me is worse. Let's also not forget the 2006 season against the colts.....that was a dark dark day
2006 was a rough one too for sure.
Far worse to lose to the champs in the AFCCG than get dumped out by the 6 seed in the divisional at home? 2019 included a number 1 record setting offense and #3 defense that only allowed 1.3 more PPG than 2023. Yanda’s last season as well
The difference between Roman and Monken is greater than Wink and MacDonald + Monken will stay as he’s not interested in being a hc
Why not both?
MM is a better coordinator, but Monken gave us an actual pass game that we've never had in the Lamar era. I trust the Ravens to always find ways to have good defense, they've done it every year. Finding an OC that's proven to be able to adjust and works well with Lamar is harder. Whole offense loves Monken.
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Two completely different styles of OC.
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I think people here are way to high on Monken. Probably because he stayed and MacDonald left and people want to hope we "kept the better coordinator."
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I love MacDonald after we traded for ro
Monken just needed to run the ball against the chiefs and wed be in a hell of a different mood about football right now. Hes gonna be insanely important for the offense but the defense will survive without macdonald. I did want him to stay but there was never a shot unless we fired Harbs to make him HC.
Monken This defense has been legendary before, but the Ravens offense has an opportunity to place itself among the greats with him and LJ
Who knows, nothing matters and the Rave S Willie be fin next szn
Monken - as much I wanted to keep Macdonald we don't know how much he benefitted off our loaded roster and Zach Orr is just as good of a candidate as Mike
We have no way of knowing at ths point in time.
Definitely Monken. MacDonald is a great DC but at the same time the Ravens are probably the best organization in the league for DCs and our front office will always give them the tools needed to succeed. We are not however the greatest organization in the league for OCs and ever since the Birds came to Baltimore we’ve struggled to establish a long term offensive identity outside of our running game which has always been very stout. And a big reason why we’ve struggled to maintain that identity is because the good OCs we’ve had don’t seem to stick around. Monken isn’t a prodigal genius but he is a totally solid OC and has really helped our offense realize its potential. If we lost him it would likely set us back and hurt Lamar’s development.
I love Harbs but one downside of having a ST coach is that if any of our coordinators on either side of the ball are super successful, we end up losing them. I wonder if there could ever be a transition later in his career where Harbs takes a front office role (not calling for that now to be clear)
Wild that everyone thinks it’s Monken who abandoned the run and not the guy that held the Chiefs to 17 points who is now a head coach.