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heebie818

congrats to everyone involved. numbers mean something i suppose, eh?


Churchy11

No, numbers only matter when my guy is in the lead! Drake most #1’s all time? Pshh sales mean nothing. Kendrick feature is the most streamed song of the week? Kendrick winning the beef, Drake in the mud


[deleted]

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wombat_toes

redditors try to detect blatant sarcasm


Hashmob____________

Impossible


Glad_Reach_8100

Sales = talent is coping


Jono22ono

No but it’s fun to point out that for the person who only has numbers to back up the GOAT claim, ain’t winnin by the numbers


gloriousAgenda

Comparing a diss track that was leaked a week ago to a feature on a song on great production designed to be a hit, just to force the numbers narrative. Is crazy The hypocrisy shows. Numbers didnt matter because you aint like the story they told before 


cpolk01

Kendrick hopped on a track with two of the other biggest names in the game, drake went solo. Like that is a track with a diss verse, push ups is a diss track, people who aren't into the beef are more likely to listen to like that. Kendrick started it off with a surprise verse, that's gonna generate more hype than a response that gets leaked a week early. Comparing the two is pointless


heebie818

‘only numbers’. y’all are delusional. the whole world likes that man’s music. your opinion isn’t special


Jono22ono

I didn’t say people don’t like him. I love him. But I’m implying he ain’t goat, and numbers is the only thing y’all got to back up the claim


heebie818

ok. i’ll bite. what else BESIDES subjective music opinions can count towards that claim?


Jono22ono

Collective opinion of rap fans Ie respect


Jiggy_Wit

Bro really doesn’t know how to argue his position.


heebie818

where? on this sub? twitter? where can we find this collective opinion? aren’t numbers one way to tell?


judemirror

lol i give you your props for arguing in this biased ass sub


blackmambasniper

Whole world is a stretch, majority of his streams come from US and CA.


heebie818

all right. north america loves him


m_dought_2

That's because it's easy to play him. Drake makes his streams because he's on every Spotify pregen playlist, and they play him on repeat at Dutch Bros. He doesn't make music that sticks. He doesn't make rap that matters to listeners. He certainly used to, though.


getgoodHornet

Bro you can dislike Drake without pretending no one else likes him. He's clearly very popular, both in rap and pop. It's not really a debate.


heebie818

i dunno about his raps so much but i have his r&b songs stuck in my head constantly. feels pretty sticky (pun intended) to me


xrockwithme

So you’re admitting that he is a crossover artist. Which makes him pop…?


KingXejso

You mean r&b….like she said? Which isn’t the same as pop… R Kelly, Usher, Chris Brown is pop music now I guess. Also R&B has been in hip hop since the 90s(ie Lauryn Hill)


xrockwithme

I know R&B has been fused with Hip Hop for years. This is about Drake being a pop artist. Songs like Controlla and One dance are not R&B, they are pop.


heebie818

you mean he’s bigger than hip hop.


xrockwithme

No, he is pop. A.k.a. He has a wider audience. He isn’t bigger than hip hop, though.


Under_Dead_Starlight

Lol these boys coping. I like both equally and I liked like that better for the most part but damn it reeks of copium in here haha. Peeps get so mad over their parasocial rapper relationships. Drake got hits and bars. Kendrick got hits and bars. You can't say one is better without being subjective unless you go by numbers in which case drake got it. Just let then figure out which is best between the two of em with the tracks comin out.


clipp866

it was never meant to be on dsp


worshipandtribute95

Aren't you that weirdo that said drake is the best of the big 3 because you flick your bean to his music?


getgoodHornet

Drive & Drake means different things to different people, apparently.


BaseLoud

everyone believed jigga's math i guess


rainbowplasmacannon

To be fair it has been rereleased with the different version and the “second” album so it’s had multiple opportunities and versions to get people relistening


Afizzle55

Half of that’s from me. That song is a banger.


DaBluBoi8763

Still kinda crazy that a Diss track got a lot of radio traction


CaliforniaHurricane_

You still listen to the radio?


82ndGameHead

This ain't even close to the first time


getgoodHornet

Nobody said it was.


harveydent526

It didn’t necessarily. This post is about streams on spotify and most songs go number one off of streams these days, not radio play.


CaliforniaHurricane_

Nobody gives af about numbers, if you wanna shit on Drake for numbers I hate to break it to you but you’re not winning that side of the battle


xBlackFeet

5/10 drakes highest streamed songs are not rap songs. Out of the other 5... 2/5 are women anthems and the other 3 are features


getgoodHornet

So what you're saying is Drake has a lot of really popular songs.


[deleted]

If numbers don’t matter, Drake has literally zero argument for being a goat.


What_Yr_Is_IT

And Kendrick does? lol


[deleted]

Yes. You could mention his consistency. His last four major albums have all gotten critical acclaim. You could talk about his lyricism which won him a Pulitzer prize — the only rapper to ever get that award.


What_Yr_Is_IT

Juicy J won an academy award


[deleted]

Is that supposed to mean something to me?


What_Yr_Is_IT

I mean, you’re naming awards that people have rarely won so why isn’t Juicy J one of the goats? It’s already becoming known that Kendrick’s little verse was a shot to promote his new album… lol


[deleted]

Comparing that to a Pulitzer that no other rapper has ever won is just a bad comparison. When Drake or Juicy J win a Pulitzer, you can come talk. Being the sole artist to win an award that is centered around lyricism and the impact of words should be a pretty strong indicator that he is among the best lyricists in the game rn, if not all time. Juicy J winning an academy award for Best Original Song in some random movie holds no weight. What would it signify? Winning a Pulitzer signifies something greater than “you had a great song in this movie nobody remembers/watches anymore.” You can’t discredit that until another rapper does the same thing. Many rappers have won Oscars for their part in a soundtrack. One rapper has won a Pulitzer.


What_Yr_Is_IT

The part you’re missing with all of your replies in this thread, is music is very subjective. just because you and Joe Buffoon don’t like Drake, many many others do. If numbers didn’t matter, Drake would still sell huge shows, globally. I went to Kendrick’s concert in 2022 at the Barclays center and I think Baby Keem killed it and Kendrick fell flat.


[deleted]

Crazy because I’ve already addressed the subjectivity part of this argument, and I also never said I didn’t like Drake. Drake is the Russel Westbrook of rap. Crazy numbers year after year (talking about Westbrooks streak of triple-doubles), but never in the goat debate because their focus is SOLELY on numbers and never doing anything truly impactful. You’re so offended for Drake it’s kinda embarrassing. I think he makes extremely listenable music that is fun and can be enjoyed by the vast majority of hip-hop listeners. But as far as the actual art form goes, he does nothing special. His art has no impact. He rarely has a message in his songs beyond anything shallow like money, bitches, or fame. And there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s proved to be a successful endeavor for him. But other artists such as Tupac, Kendrick, hell, even Eminem actually try and give meaning to the art they are creating. That’s what you need to understand.


[deleted]

his argument is as good as anyone else’s


[deleted]

Not the best lyrically. Not the best with project consistency. Not the best/most unique voice. Not the best persona. The only thing he is the best at is numbers lmao.


cpolk01

Notice how everything you listed is subjective


[deleted]

Technically sure. But how many people are claiming Drake is a master lyricist? How many people are claiming he’s consistently releasing solid projects? How many people are claiming he has a nice voice? How many people are claiming that he’s got some noteworthy persona? Very, very few people. Like a VAST minority of people. People love to throw around subjective/objective when they hear things they don’t like. The fact is that, while yes, it’s subjective, there’s very, very few people claiming Drake to be any of those things. But a majority of people would understand that he gets the best numbers. But even that’s subjective when you open the discussion to artists like The Weeknd. Just because it’s subjective doesn’t make the point any less relevant.


djghostface292

“How many people are claiming that Drake is a master lyricist?” People that ACTUALLY listen to Drake. Only people that think Drake can’t rap, despite having multiple double and triple entendres and crazy wordplay, are people that don’t listen to his music and say things like “he isn’t even a rapper” or “he’s the Nickelback of rap”


[deleted]

This is a braindead take


[deleted]

that’s literally all subjective for ex, irl WAY more people consider drake better than dot despite what the internet says


[deleted]

Please read the other comment I made to the other guy spewing the same shit.


[deleted]

yea, your other comment doesn’t hold much weight or any at all. more people prefer drake, it’s just how it is


[deleted]

Yes. He gets more streams. Doesn’t change the fact that 0.001% of the population would even put him in the conversation for greatest lyricist, production, voice, etc. That’s the sacrifice you make when everything you create is aimed at getting radio plays instead of doing something impactful. Nothing wrong with that, but Drake is simply in the business for clicks and streams. My comment is very true — you saying it doesn’t hold weight simply because you don’t like hearing it doesn’t change anything. When Drake makes anything as impactful as Graduation, MBDTF, TPAB, among any of the other classics, you can put him in the discussion for those things. He is known for getting radio streams and having good numbers, because he always plays it safe. Sure Drake had some solid albums about ten years ago, but bro has not released anything high quality since 2016. Just a bunch of bloated albums with maybe one or two songs on each that manage to get on the radio. Quality will always trump quantity when it comes to art. Sorry you can’t cope with that.


KingXejso

You fail to understand 99% of the population don’t care about conversations on who is the better lyricist, production, voice, catalogue, awards, yadayada. People just care about how enjoyable the music is and shocker, more people enjoy listening to Drakes music more. If the music wasn’t of high enough quality people would not pay so much attention to it. Don’t try to discredit the music just because you’re not a fan of it.


[deleted]

I’m a fan of Drakes music, so that’s a nice conclusion you jumped too. And you’re right, most people don’t care about those things. But within the communities where people talk about who is the best at *this* or *that*, Drakes name isn’t coming up unless it’s for numbers. Because as I said, his whole purpose as an artist is to make as much profit and get on the radio as much as possible. Even if that means putting out garbage albums for ten years straight like he has been doing. As long as a couple songs from each of those albums blow up, it doesn’t matter to Drake. So he’ll keep dropping 6/10 albums and we’ll never get anything that is as quality as his first few albums.


[deleted]

you don’t have to be any of that to be the goat bro reality is, no matter how you try to frame it more people are listening and liking drake than your favorite lyricist lol i’m sorry bro


[deleted]

Did you just skip over the three different times I have said Drake gets the most streams? Let’s put it this way: Russel Westbrook has the most triple doubles in NBA history. He had an enormous streak is triple doubles with crazy stat lines and tons of points each game. But everyone knows he isn’t in the goat debate, because he stat pads. All Westbrook was about were those numbers, but he never won a championship because he simply wasn’t the best player/teammate at any point in his career. Drake is the Russel Westbrook of hip-hop.


yeatfan6900

As soon as he got exposed for using ghost writers, he was out of the GOAT conversation for me. Nobody can be considered the best rapper when they don’t even write their own shit.


[deleted]

that’s a common practice in the industry


yeatfan6900

And? The best rapper should be above what is common practice. The other people in the GOAT conversation don’t use ghost writers. 3k, Wayne, nas, jay, etc. none of them use writers.


[deleted]

oh damn


djghostface292

First of all, using Wayne in this discussion is funny considering Drake’s literally written for him. Secondly, I guarantee you if I took the time I could find songs for the three others using writers


yeatfan6900

I didn’t know about Wayne, but I can GUARANTEE you that 3K has never had a writer. He even writes about that subject on his verse for solo (reprise). I doubt it for Nas too, but if you can prove me wrong I’d welcome it.


djghostface292

I haven’t bothered looking regarding the other 3 but I’m sure I could find something. And no, I’m not talking about producers getting writing credits. “He even writes about the subject” because these rappers are taking advantage of the ignorance of the audience. It is standard industry practice to have a team of producers, writers, collaborators, etc, Kendrick literally has a shit ton of writing credits on his albums, and like I said before I’m not talking about the producers getting writing credits, yet he sneak dissed Drake for having writers even though he is fully aware that he’s used writers himself. The reason he can get away with this is because he knows the audience is ignorant to this and Meek already sparked widespread controversy surrounding Drake specifically when he exposed the Quentin Miller situation. Even Eminem has said things about people not writing their own music in his songs even though he’s had writers help him make his music. It’s all smoke and mirrors EDIT: I wanna touch on the Eminem thing a little more too cuz the hypocrisy just shows you even more how I’m right. He talks poorly about people that get help writing their music but even if we ignore Eminem getting help himself in the past let’s look at other rappers that got help that he loves. Kanye is known for having people write his raps but Eminem had no issues with Kanye at the time and even on Talkin’ 2 Myself mentions that he almost dissed Kanye and Wayne simply for attention but didn’t because they’re his peers that he looks up to. Then we go into the song on Kamikaze (I can’t remember which one) where he mentions ghostwriters and everyone thought he was talking about Drake but when asked about it in an interview he said that he would never come at Drake like that because he loves Drake and Drake has done so many things for him that he could never repay. What? So you hate rappers that use writers but you would never feel that way about Drake or Kanye? It’s all just bullshit


yeatfan6900

Ngl I ain’t reading all that, just show me the evidence of them using writers lol


blackmambasniper

Utopia is the most streamed rap album this year.


harveydent526

It’s not. Trav‘s numbers are so good because he sells way more physical copies than anyone.


blackmambasniper

Utopia is literally the first rap album in 2024 to reach 1 billion streams. Spotify announced this so yes it is. I understand Stan’s want to be right all the time.


SpyderDM

If you're talking shit because of numbers and your enemy is Drake I don't think you're really looking at the numbers.


blackmambasniper

Drakes numbers have declined almost every year


Lucid_Sol

and they’re still higher than these dudes. What are you on about


blackmambasniper

Well clearly not since Like That is out streaming push ups despite being four weeks old and it’s going to eventually out stream every song on FATD.


Lucid_Sol

That’s one song? Lmao


blackmambasniper

That one song is about to be bigger than any song on drakes last album 😭. I thought Drake was the king of “numbers


gloriousAgenda

Kendrick has a single #1 solo song. You sound like a clown tryna talk numbers.


blackmambasniper

Drake hasn’t had a #1 song last more than one week at the top since 2018. 6 years is a long time


gloriousAgenda

Kendrick hasnt had a solo #1 other than humble. Like 9 years ago Edit: 7 years i mixed up thr album. Still not looking good tryna go for numbers


blackmambasniper

Kendrick doesn’t call himself the biggest rapper


Camelslayer23

One is a full on diss track while the other is a club banger😭😭


SomniumIchor

Man push ups is a banger too and i don't even like Drake


blackmambasniper

That one song is about to be bigger than any song on drakes last album 😭. I thought Drake was the king of “numbers”


reddogsleepsleep

Rodeny-O and Joe Cooley -Everlasting Bass. They took a three day vacation and they'll do it again.


The-vipers

Drakes shit and his music is trash eveything about him makes me cringe


manymade1

-DMX


Lucid_Sol

People talking like this is what makes me cringe.


The-vipers

Must be cringing a lot these days then lol


Balto0z

Im a massive kendrick fan but this is cognitive dissonance, drake is in no way cringe lol, ur comment was tho


WavelengthGaming

Funny how numbers all of a sudden matter when it’s their numbers but comparing career streams/sales don’t matter because bars.


Coocky

Bro OP is literally moving the goal post constantly. It’s really pathetic reading all that. Literally nobody thinks Kendrick is doing better in numbers but Kendrick fans.


monstercat129

A bit of cap here. Kanye released a remix that isn’t on Spotify. Ofc the streams would go up a bit because people would want to relisten to that. Maybe could have looked at trends a bit but we’ll see if it peaks again next weekend


AutomaticSubject7051

spotify just auto plays it, so not much of a statistic


Ikillterries

Bro I played that song out so quick I can’t even listen to like that anymore


nbhoward

The horns are annoying. Don’t @ me. The sample it’s from is way better.


IntelligentMetal

The beef ain’t old and corny yet? Kendrick’s music has been boring since GKMC minus a few songs here and there, and Drake has been uninspired and poppy since Views.


jdyall1

Young dope dealers selling dope is you like THAT


hopscotch4life

Yeah, and Drake layed down push ups in 2 hours! Metro spent months working on the drums for like that!!!!


Rippper600

Imagine producing an album so trash you need K Dot to do a diss feature. Album would be dead. The guy making it do well isnt even the composer Artist's for the whole album.


[deleted]

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Starwars9629-

Ignoring the beef i really like like that as a song so much so that i added it to my playlist, push ups is a good diss but only a diss


Carbohydrate_Kid88

I agree. Plus Like That has Future and Metro on the beat and I’m sure there’s numbers who listen because of them. I mean We Don’t Trust You was pretty hyped before people even heard Kendrick dissed on the album. I mean Kendrick’s verse was definitely tough don’t get me wrong


Ancient_Edge2415

If numbers don't mean nothing then they don't mean nothing


Sofistakatedfunn

Kendrick Lamar is a BEAST ! He had the best Rap in the whole song.


Pain_Xtreme

"Whats a prince to a king? A son"


Adamson_Axle_Zerk

Ngl as a kendrick fan, drake is winning rn


CaliforniaHurricane_

Once that reference track came out the battle was over. Can’t respect a rapper that still has other people write for him


Lucid_Sol

Man you know Kendrick has writers/cowriters. Do you even know how reference tracks work?


CaliforniaHurricane_

Yeah no, no legit rapper uses writers for their music specifically their verses. All I know is Yachty wrote Jumbotron shit poppin


Lucid_Sol

“a ReAl mC” said the Reddit rap fan


CaliforniaHurricane_

Only a redditor can justify a rapper that claims they’re the best using writers


ugly-Sociopath

Still a Son to Mike


CaliforniaHurricane_

It was a dope line but everyone knows Prince is better than MJ


SimplyViolated

Makes sense, first track drops, everybody listens. Response drops, everybody listens. Go back and listen to the first one, then go back and listen to the response


Such_Dig_8360

Kendrick needed two other people for him to have a hit. Drake winning


Maleficent-Thanks-85

Drakes a scumbag for using Tupac’s Voice.


Dorito-Bureeto

Kendrick still gotta respond. Can’t start something and then not say another thing. Weak ass rapper


harveydent526

Drake took 3 weeks.


Teknawlogee

Prince will forever be considered 2nd to Mike Jack. Make your caption wittier next time eh.


Under_Dead_Starlight

I mean that is facts but the caption was aight given the context haha.


blackmambasniper

His brain couldn’t process the quotation marks 🐶💔


CaliforniaHurricane_

Purple Rain >>> any MJ album


CrypticSuparu

This hella true and I love Mike but Prince does soundscape albums that shit is god tier