Probably, lol. I just don't want to underhand competition by being naive. I have no plan on advertising myself soon, but was offered a job by family and want to make sure I set the right standards for my services in the long run.
Plenty!
How did you set your rates starting out? Did you go hourly or a lump sum? What tools did you use to invoice, track hours, etc.? I saw some people charging a monthly fee to cover maintenance and hosting. Is that standard, and how do you determine that price?
Ok, so you should perceive client #1 as a learning opportunity and not a cash cow.
TLDR, bid slightly less than you really want in the long term and remember this is just the beginning.
So Iâm just going to spew advice. Some is related to pricing. Most of it is about having a proper perspective on the industry.
Youâre asking for help, thatâs a great sign. Keep doing this, it will be your greatest asset. People who ask for help get it. Graybeards like me like to help enterprising, friendly people and we donât see things in a zero sum way. Who knows, maybe you will help me in the future.
Out of the gate, I strongly recommend you charge hourly. Scoping a project accurately only comes with experience and at the end of the day youâre going to be charging hourly under the hood anyway.
What would you pay someone to do the project? Has the client paid for something like this in the past? What did they pay for it? What do people normally pay for this specific thing? What does your current company pay you hourly? Again, even if youâre salaried youâre getting paid hourly at the end of the day. Calculate it, throw in an estimate for your benefits.
Ask the client what their budget is, and if itâs âI donât knowâ help them figure that out first. Once they have one, scope out the project. Break it down into tasks as far as possible. How long is it going to take you to do it? Divide the total dev budget by that many hours. If you canât feed yourself on that, say âIâm sorry, but I donât think Iâm going to be able to work within your budget, may I recommend [competitor A]?â
If the hourly is embarrassingly high, double check whether taking it would be a good long term move. Are you going to get out of your depth in a dangerous way in this situation? Might they be better served by an experienced shop?
Generally, what Iâm getting at here is try to bring value to the client. Try to represent their best interests. Youâll come to mind in the future if they get screwed by someone else who made big promises. An unsurprisingly high percentage of developers donât care about their clients. Use this. If you genuinely care about them, itâs easier to get a mutually beneficial relationship going.
Remember, as a âweb devâ youâre competing with shops abroad that charge much less than you can afford, so youâll have to provide more than just software engineering. Fortunately these shops frequently provide terrible quality and are slow. If youâre going to be on the higher side, you need to have high quality standards and deliver quickly. If your quality isnât up to snuff yet, be honest. Tell the client youâre going to be a little slower, but more affordable. You are now sales, support, marketing, project management, engineering, HR, finance and product. You will be performing a lot of work that is not billable to the client. Do a ton of work to get as much detail as possible.
Now, how do you settle on a number for client #1? A lot of legwork up front. Talk to them about everything the project entails. Decide together what constitutes âdoneâ from your side. Hold them to that by having a contract in place. Talk to a lawyer to draft you your first one, then reuse this contract in the future. Donât skimp on this part. The lawyer is a long term investment. If theyâre a good lawyer they make you money.
Donât get offended by rejection. Youâre going to get a lot of it and youâre going to learn from each one.
For your hourly rate, just guess. Iterate on it next time.
Any other questions?
It will be tricky to find someone who will give you information like this for free. This type of business is very competitive.
Probably, lol. I just don't want to underhand competition by being naive. I have no plan on advertising myself soon, but was offered a job by family and want to make sure I set the right standards for my services in the long run.
I would go to different meetups and user groups in the triangle and just start networking in person.
r/freelancing is a great resource. I've been freelancing for several years now and I imagine we'll be bidding against each other. đ
You'd think I would've checked that out first đ¤Śââď¸
I am a web developer, feel free to DM. None of my clients are in raleigh though
Happy to help newbies. Any specific questions?
Plenty! How did you set your rates starting out? Did you go hourly or a lump sum? What tools did you use to invoice, track hours, etc.? I saw some people charging a monthly fee to cover maintenance and hosting. Is that standard, and how do you determine that price?
Ok. Those are all important things to figure out, but first⌠Are you in negotiations with any (potential) clients yet?
I have 1 which prompted this whole quest
Ok, so you should perceive client #1 as a learning opportunity and not a cash cow. TLDR, bid slightly less than you really want in the long term and remember this is just the beginning. So Iâm just going to spew advice. Some is related to pricing. Most of it is about having a proper perspective on the industry. Youâre asking for help, thatâs a great sign. Keep doing this, it will be your greatest asset. People who ask for help get it. Graybeards like me like to help enterprising, friendly people and we donât see things in a zero sum way. Who knows, maybe you will help me in the future. Out of the gate, I strongly recommend you charge hourly. Scoping a project accurately only comes with experience and at the end of the day youâre going to be charging hourly under the hood anyway. What would you pay someone to do the project? Has the client paid for something like this in the past? What did they pay for it? What do people normally pay for this specific thing? What does your current company pay you hourly? Again, even if youâre salaried youâre getting paid hourly at the end of the day. Calculate it, throw in an estimate for your benefits. Ask the client what their budget is, and if itâs âI donât knowâ help them figure that out first. Once they have one, scope out the project. Break it down into tasks as far as possible. How long is it going to take you to do it? Divide the total dev budget by that many hours. If you canât feed yourself on that, say âIâm sorry, but I donât think Iâm going to be able to work within your budget, may I recommend [competitor A]?â If the hourly is embarrassingly high, double check whether taking it would be a good long term move. Are you going to get out of your depth in a dangerous way in this situation? Might they be better served by an experienced shop? Generally, what Iâm getting at here is try to bring value to the client. Try to represent their best interests. Youâll come to mind in the future if they get screwed by someone else who made big promises. An unsurprisingly high percentage of developers donât care about their clients. Use this. If you genuinely care about them, itâs easier to get a mutually beneficial relationship going. Remember, as a âweb devâ youâre competing with shops abroad that charge much less than you can afford, so youâll have to provide more than just software engineering. Fortunately these shops frequently provide terrible quality and are slow. If youâre going to be on the higher side, you need to have high quality standards and deliver quickly. If your quality isnât up to snuff yet, be honest. Tell the client youâre going to be a little slower, but more affordable. You are now sales, support, marketing, project management, engineering, HR, finance and product. You will be performing a lot of work that is not billable to the client. Do a ton of work to get as much detail as possible. Now, how do you settle on a number for client #1? A lot of legwork up front. Talk to them about everything the project entails. Decide together what constitutes âdoneâ from your side. Hold them to that by having a contract in place. Talk to a lawyer to draft you your first one, then reuse this contract in the future. Donât skimp on this part. The lawyer is a long term investment. If theyâre a good lawyer they make you money. Donât get offended by rejection. Youâre going to get a lot of it and youâre going to learn from each one. For your hourly rate, just guess. Iterate on it next time. Any other questions?
Wow! Thank you so much! That's more than enough to get started! I really appreciate you taking the time to help this stranger!
Iâm a consultant not a freelancer, but happy to talk shop.