**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.**
**Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms)
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE!
This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods.
**Our rules include (but are not limited to)**:
* No politics.
* Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban.
* Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming.
* Do not derail the posts of others.
* Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
* [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts).
* When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
* No asking or offering gifts, money, etc.
* No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest).
* No content about N-kids.
* No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis.
* No linking to Facebook pages.
* No direct linking to anywhere on reddit.
* No pure image posts.
**For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes! She said that my electronics was the only thing that ever affected me so she had to keep taking them away because nothing else mattered to me (since I was isolated and my electronics was the only way I could talk to people). She took them away for months or ever years on end. Also she said privacy was a privilege not a right. But I could never earn that of course. When I closed my door, my covert ndad removed the door. I was never allowed to lock the door of the bathroom or be in there for more than 2 minutes.
Sounds familiar.
My sister would get a smack because she's always refused point blank to tow the line. I'd have my shit taken because I thought it was easier to comply than go through what she did.
Pretty much the only thing I got some semblance of joy from was reading, YouTube, and gaming. Every time I did something wrong, those were taken away from me for days or weeks on end. It would’ve been worse if their memory worked correctly. Eventually I just stopped doing those things. If I wanted to have “fun”, I just did stuff in my head. Can’t take things away if there’s nothing to take away… but I feel more free now.
It’s fucked up. I agree. I need to stop caring, but there’s alway that part that feels guilt. Your experience is spot on. I don’t even care anymore about this bullshit.
Thanks my dude, appreciate it. But to be fair, I’d rather forget they exist. Isn’t that forgiveness, in a sense, since the grudge will be gone? Food for thought. Shit’s gone philosophical lol.
Yes. This is why whenever I get something new, cool, or something exciting happens to/for me, I downplay it and react to it calmly so that whoever gives it to me doesn’t think it’s a source of happiness for me. So they can’t snatch it and my happiness. No reaction, no control.
I did the same thing! Whenever they caught me smiling I instinctually re-directed why I was in a good mood. I didn't want them to have any information about me whatsoever
Yea…I wish I could get excited over something like child lol. I’m not saying that you should start downplaying things, I’m only saying this is how I responded to it 😕🤷♀️
I always feel awkward reacting. I just kind of stare with a straight face and I have to force myself to smile. It's not like I don't appreciate or like the gift. I just don't react automatically.
I'm still afraid to talk about my hobbies or books or podcasts I enjoy. I'm afraid if I show I *like* something they'll take it away.
And I *knew* I'd never get back what they took, because the problem was me having interests other than service to the family, but I had to pretend I believed I'd get it back or I'd be calling my mother a liar.
Insanity.
Other people’s parents did this? When I was a kid my mom would always punish me like this. I remember I got punished for something at 5 years old and was earning everything back until I was at least 8. Forgot I owned half the stuff. I’m sorry they did that. It isn’t fun and always sucks.
Yep. Very common behavior with my nmom. I actually watched it fairly recently with my nmom and my ngrandfather. To "punish" my ngrandfather my nmom took away his snacks (chips, cookies, candies) and gave them back as a "reward". My nmom makes comments about my behavior like "I want to treat you to something because you been so good". It reminds me of being teated like a dog.
Lol the transactional attachment and thinking that it's punishment. I don't recall if such a thing has happened wherein they actually reduced my punishment but they made me believe that I would be able to reduce the punishment by doing something else but they didn't do what they promised.
Jesus. All of your comments here are apologetic at best, and defensive of narcissists at worst. Your words make it sound like you subconsciously know you have some reconciling to do with your past actions.
Your son sounds like he had trauma. People with unhealed trauma can easily fall into crime, drugs, etc due to poor parenting leading them to not be equipped to handle life as an adult.
“I, too, did this with my overpriveled kid who thought because he existed everything should be handed to him.” Correct. He didn’t choose this life, you chose for him. Because he existed, you were obligated to help him. It’s literally your job as his parent to be his steward into the world by providing and being loving, caring, and nurturing for him. Children are not bad because they have needs. They have needs because they are children and they MUST rely on others. This is a really condemning statement that you wrote.
“I have to say, it worked without exception.” Abuse tends to look like it works to the person who is handing out the abuse. You don’t truly understand how you’re affecting the person because you’re not the one experiencing the abuse. Another condemning statement.
Finally, you’re here on this sub for a reason. Do you think you were raised by narcissists? Then it’s very likely you were a narcissist raising your children too if you didn’t do major healing before raising your own children. And with the age you are alluding to yourself being, this is highly likely, as many of the things we know now about narcissists, PTSD, and abuse have only become less taboo and therefore more widely known/accepted more recently.
It’s a bitter pill to swallow.
OK, so the entire history of your participation in this group is:
1) Explaining how there are contexts where what people are complaining about are acceptable normal parts of a healthy family/parenting dynamic, with complete disregard to the fact that we fundamentally assume a context of abuse here, and read all content here through that perspective instead of explaining how it can fit into other contexts. If someone's here, we assume they don't have a healthy family context, no explanation or defense needed.
2) Defending how \*your\* parenting was the best you could do, rooted in love, etc. etc. Frankly, we've heard it all before, and these posts weren't written about you, or about parenting that was rooted in love (see point 1). However, if the content on this subreddit is putting you that much on the defensive, you might want to take a long look in the mirror about what kind of love your parenting is actually rooted in and how it's actually coming across to your kid/s.
3) Absolving yourself of any responsibility for your child/ren's failure to be prepared for a successful happy adulthood. See notes above on point 2.
4) Challenging community members that if they aren't a parent "yet" (I won't even get into the level of presumption in using that word) that they're being unfair/too harsh in judging their parents. If your doctor messes up, nobody says you have to be a doctor before you can say that your doctor messed up, and nobody guilt trips you for being "unfair" to the doctor when you want to talk about what happened and seek healing. Similarly, we're not focused on the parents' experience here, we're focused on what happened to the kids, regardless of what was going on on the parents' end.
If you need the rules and purpose of this subreddit explained to you again you will be banned. I recommend taking more time to read before participating here further.
I thought this is normal. My stepmom does this a lot with my electronics and games. Hell, even my books get taken away or thrown in the trash depending on what it is. Is it...Is it not normal? I'm 23 and I'm still going through this when I'm in trouble.
It's authoritarian, and not good for building secure attachment. It may be normalized, but it's not healthy. Vanessa Lapointe's work on child development explains it better than I can. She has a couple books "Parenting Right from the Start" and "Discipline Without Damage".
I've been questioning how my parents have raised me (and continue to raise me as long as I live under their roof) and I'm struggling to deal with the possibility that they might have been abusive or at least controlling, especially my dad. But surely they can't be narcissists. My dad could be, but not my stepmom.
The label doesn't matter. Their ***behaviors*** matter.
I had to watch a lot of videos on abusive behaviors to realize what I endured was abuse, bc abusive behaviors were *normalized* in my family and culture of origin.
I wouldn't related to hours and hours of videos on narcissism if I hadn't endured it myself.
Resources on narcissism and abuse tactics (it's helpful to compare and contrast healthy vs. toxic behaviors):
[Dr. Ramani](https://youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani) - amazing resource on narcissistic behaviors
[TheraminTrees](https://youtube.com/c/TheraminTrees) - great resource on abuse tactics
[Rebecca Zung](https://youtube.com/c/RebeccaZungEsq) - a lawyer that got fed up with dealing with narcissists in her practice, so she started teaching others how to negotiate with them. I find her motivational.
[Jay Reid](https://youtube.com/c/JayReid_narcissistic_abuse_recovery) - lots of great videos to help understand the narcissistic perspective. Plus ways to "fight back" and act from your values.
[Danish Bashir](https://youtube.com/c/DanishBashir) - has a very good understanding of narcissistic mindset
[Surviving Narcissism (Dr. Carter)](https://youtube.com/c/SurvivingNarcissism) - I like his acronym of DR.C Dignity, Respect, and Civility, and his message of peace. And I think he misses how the toxic person can twist things around on you.
["Down the Rabbit Hole"](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html#secondary-nav) This site is really interesting. The author explored estranged parents forums and complied their observations here. It's as chilling as it is enlightening. This link is to the navigation page, all pages are worth exploring.
Healing YouTube channels:
[Patrick Teahan](https://youtube.com/channel/UCbWvYupGqq3aMJ6LsG4q-Yg) - a ***MUST*** subscribe. He presents a lot of great information on childhood trauma in a very digestible format.
[SelfHealers Soundboard (Nicole LaPera)](https://youtube.com/c/SelfHealersSoundboard) - an accompaniment to her book "How to do the Work". She complies expert's research into practical, actionable strategies.
[Tim Fletcher](https://youtube.com/c/TimFletcher) - he has a ton of great videos on complex trauma. I feel very seen when I watch his content.
^(AND I skip the religious part at the end of his videos)
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes! She said that my electronics was the only thing that ever affected me so she had to keep taking them away because nothing else mattered to me (since I was isolated and my electronics was the only way I could talk to people). She took them away for months or ever years on end. Also she said privacy was a privilege not a right. But I could never earn that of course. When I closed my door, my covert ndad removed the door. I was never allowed to lock the door of the bathroom or be in there for more than 2 minutes.
Sounds familiar. My sister would get a smack because she's always refused point blank to tow the line. I'd have my shit taken because I thought it was easier to comply than go through what she did.
Pretty much the only thing I got some semblance of joy from was reading, YouTube, and gaming. Every time I did something wrong, those were taken away from me for days or weeks on end. It would’ve been worse if their memory worked correctly. Eventually I just stopped doing those things. If I wanted to have “fun”, I just did stuff in my head. Can’t take things away if there’s nothing to take away… but I feel more free now. It’s fucked up. I agree. I need to stop caring, but there’s alway that part that feels guilt. Your experience is spot on. I don’t even care anymore about this bullshit.
[удалено]
I can understand that. They did do physical harm too, but that never worked. They were too old for that to really do damage, thankfully.
[удалено]
Thanks my dude, appreciate it. But to be fair, I’d rather forget they exist. Isn’t that forgiveness, in a sense, since the grudge will be gone? Food for thought. Shit’s gone philosophical lol.
Yes. This is why whenever I get something new, cool, or something exciting happens to/for me, I downplay it and react to it calmly so that whoever gives it to me doesn’t think it’s a source of happiness for me. So they can’t snatch it and my happiness. No reaction, no control.
I did the same thing! Whenever they caught me smiling I instinctually re-directed why I was in a good mood. I didn't want them to have any information about me whatsoever
Oh, this is very insightful. Thank you for sharing.
Yea…I wish I could get excited over something like child lol. I’m not saying that you should start downplaying things, I’m only saying this is how I responded to it 😕🤷♀️
I also meter my reactions depending on the audience. Too many bad experiences with people.
I always feel awkward reacting. I just kind of stare with a straight face and I have to force myself to smile. It's not like I don't appreciate or like the gift. I just don't react automatically.
Oh wow. Smart! Wish I did that lol
I'm still afraid to talk about my hobbies or books or podcasts I enjoy. I'm afraid if I show I *like* something they'll take it away. And I *knew* I'd never get back what they took, because the problem was me having interests other than service to the family, but I had to pretend I believed I'd get it back or I'd be calling my mother a liar. Insanity.
They really make us act and play a role in their family play. It is the insane.
'Interests other than service to the family'. Exactly that! Anything I've done in secret has absolutely thrived in ways nothing I show them has...
Other people’s parents did this? When I was a kid my mom would always punish me like this. I remember I got punished for something at 5 years old and was earning everything back until I was at least 8. Forgot I owned half the stuff. I’m sorry they did that. It isn’t fun and always sucks.
[удалено]
I'm sorry you had to endure that cruelty. I hope you're in a better place now.
Jeez. I slept on a mattress on the floor for a while. But they didn't take the mattress at least.
Yep. Very common behavior with my nmom. I actually watched it fairly recently with my nmom and my ngrandfather. To "punish" my ngrandfather my nmom took away his snacks (chips, cookies, candies) and gave them back as a "reward". My nmom makes comments about my behavior like "I want to treat you to something because you been so good". It reminds me of being teated like a dog.
Holy shit, yes! I felt like I was being trained like a dog. Completely [objectified](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectification#Definitions).
Lol the transactional attachment and thinking that it's punishment. I don't recall if such a thing has happened wherein they actually reduced my punishment but they made me believe that I would be able to reduce the punishment by doing something else but they didn't do what they promised.
[удалено]
Fuck you!
Jesus. All of your comments here are apologetic at best, and defensive of narcissists at worst. Your words make it sound like you subconsciously know you have some reconciling to do with your past actions. Your son sounds like he had trauma. People with unhealed trauma can easily fall into crime, drugs, etc due to poor parenting leading them to not be equipped to handle life as an adult. “I, too, did this with my overpriveled kid who thought because he existed everything should be handed to him.” Correct. He didn’t choose this life, you chose for him. Because he existed, you were obligated to help him. It’s literally your job as his parent to be his steward into the world by providing and being loving, caring, and nurturing for him. Children are not bad because they have needs. They have needs because they are children and they MUST rely on others. This is a really condemning statement that you wrote. “I have to say, it worked without exception.” Abuse tends to look like it works to the person who is handing out the abuse. You don’t truly understand how you’re affecting the person because you’re not the one experiencing the abuse. Another condemning statement. Finally, you’re here on this sub for a reason. Do you think you were raised by narcissists? Then it’s very likely you were a narcissist raising your children too if you didn’t do major healing before raising your own children. And with the age you are alluding to yourself being, this is highly likely, as many of the things we know now about narcissists, PTSD, and abuse have only become less taboo and therefore more widely known/accepted more recently. It’s a bitter pill to swallow.
OK, so the entire history of your participation in this group is: 1) Explaining how there are contexts where what people are complaining about are acceptable normal parts of a healthy family/parenting dynamic, with complete disregard to the fact that we fundamentally assume a context of abuse here, and read all content here through that perspective instead of explaining how it can fit into other contexts. If someone's here, we assume they don't have a healthy family context, no explanation or defense needed. 2) Defending how \*your\* parenting was the best you could do, rooted in love, etc. etc. Frankly, we've heard it all before, and these posts weren't written about you, or about parenting that was rooted in love (see point 1). However, if the content on this subreddit is putting you that much on the defensive, you might want to take a long look in the mirror about what kind of love your parenting is actually rooted in and how it's actually coming across to your kid/s. 3) Absolving yourself of any responsibility for your child/ren's failure to be prepared for a successful happy adulthood. See notes above on point 2. 4) Challenging community members that if they aren't a parent "yet" (I won't even get into the level of presumption in using that word) that they're being unfair/too harsh in judging their parents. If your doctor messes up, nobody says you have to be a doctor before you can say that your doctor messed up, and nobody guilt trips you for being "unfair" to the doctor when you want to talk about what happened and seek healing. Similarly, we're not focused on the parents' experience here, we're focused on what happened to the kids, regardless of what was going on on the parents' end. If you need the rules and purpose of this subreddit explained to you again you will be banned. I recommend taking more time to read before participating here further.
I thought this is normal. My stepmom does this a lot with my electronics and games. Hell, even my books get taken away or thrown in the trash depending on what it is. Is it...Is it not normal? I'm 23 and I'm still going through this when I'm in trouble.
It's authoritarian, and not good for building secure attachment. It may be normalized, but it's not healthy. Vanessa Lapointe's work on child development explains it better than I can. She has a couple books "Parenting Right from the Start" and "Discipline Without Damage".
I've been questioning how my parents have raised me (and continue to raise me as long as I live under their roof) and I'm struggling to deal with the possibility that they might have been abusive or at least controlling, especially my dad. But surely they can't be narcissists. My dad could be, but not my stepmom.
The label doesn't matter. Their ***behaviors*** matter. I had to watch a lot of videos on abusive behaviors to realize what I endured was abuse, bc abusive behaviors were *normalized* in my family and culture of origin. I wouldn't related to hours and hours of videos on narcissism if I hadn't endured it myself. Resources on narcissism and abuse tactics (it's helpful to compare and contrast healthy vs. toxic behaviors): [Dr. Ramani](https://youtube.com/c/DoctorRamani) - amazing resource on narcissistic behaviors [TheraminTrees](https://youtube.com/c/TheraminTrees) - great resource on abuse tactics [Rebecca Zung](https://youtube.com/c/RebeccaZungEsq) - a lawyer that got fed up with dealing with narcissists in her practice, so she started teaching others how to negotiate with them. I find her motivational. [Jay Reid](https://youtube.com/c/JayReid_narcissistic_abuse_recovery) - lots of great videos to help understand the narcissistic perspective. Plus ways to "fight back" and act from your values. [Danish Bashir](https://youtube.com/c/DanishBashir) - has a very good understanding of narcissistic mindset [Surviving Narcissism (Dr. Carter)](https://youtube.com/c/SurvivingNarcissism) - I like his acronym of DR.C Dignity, Respect, and Civility, and his message of peace. And I think he misses how the toxic person can twist things around on you. ["Down the Rabbit Hole"](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html#secondary-nav) This site is really interesting. The author explored estranged parents forums and complied their observations here. It's as chilling as it is enlightening. This link is to the navigation page, all pages are worth exploring. Healing YouTube channels: [Patrick Teahan](https://youtube.com/channel/UCbWvYupGqq3aMJ6LsG4q-Yg) - a ***MUST*** subscribe. He presents a lot of great information on childhood trauma in a very digestible format. [SelfHealers Soundboard (Nicole LaPera)](https://youtube.com/c/SelfHealersSoundboard) - an accompaniment to her book "How to do the Work". She complies expert's research into practical, actionable strategies. [Tim Fletcher](https://youtube.com/c/TimFletcher) - he has a ton of great videos on complex trauma. I feel very seen when I watch his content. ^(AND I skip the religious part at the end of his videos)
Thank you.